Cheating Was A Choice with Melissa Dumaz

This week Khadeen and Devale talk about past infidelities and how they each got through their moments of transgression, and Melissa Dumaz, LMFT from U Help You joins the Ellises to share her insights on how couples can rebuild trust after cheating. See omnystudio.com/policies/listener for privacy information.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're back. I'm Drew McCarry and I'm David Roth and
coming in September a new site we have built together
called defect or Defector, and we're gonna have a new
podcast to go with it, this faery podcast which has
the name The Distraction. It's out right now at available
every rust your podcast at Stitcher, Spotify, Apple. Go listen
right now to The Distraction everywhere. It's out right now.

(00:22):
Go listen to see I by Codeine. When I first
met you, I saw you you a beautiful You look
like a princess. I thought our romance would be powered
by Disney, and I was wrong. It was not a

(00:43):
fairy tale. Damn you fairy tales for making things salad.
They were going to be one way and the eight. Well,
it's safe to say that you and I have been
divorced and remarried several times throughout the course of our relationship.
Did ask, Hey, I'm and we're the Ellis. You may

(01:04):
know us from posting funny videos with our boys and
reading each other publicly as a form of therapy. Wait,
I'll make you need derby most days. And one more
important thing to mention, we're married, Yes, sir, we are.
We created this podcast to open dialogue about some of
the live's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want
to talk about through the lens of a millennial married couple.

(01:26):
Dead ass is a term that we say every day.
Where we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts, the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We're about
to take phillow Talk to a whole new level. Dead
ask starts now. Alright, guys, So I'm gonna take you
guys back to a time. This is probably one of
the darkest times in Codein and myself our relationship. Um,

(01:52):
it was right after we were married and Codeine and
I were struggling financially. We had just moved back to
Brooklyn and the recession was here. We were living in
an apartment. We were having disagreements about our living situation
and the wedding. And this is after the wedding. Yes

(02:12):
we had we had but we had definitely had buyers remorse.
So it got to a point, Um, we had just
had Jackson and we were not seeing out eye and
we discussed possibly not being together, and it got to
a point where we were just like, um, how would
we survive together in the house but not be married

(02:34):
because neither one of us wanted to leave Jackson, and
we couldn't figure out a way to make it work
legally or make it work for us emotionally, and we
just started to grow apart and I cheated loving you.
It's like a bad battle. Hey, hey, and we both

(02:58):
send up with Scott. Tell me I have to be
that one in my soul. It was too bad. Laura
was in my air because she's had me like yeah,
stuff like I sounded good but sounded good. Bad. We
can't play her. We can't play her along sounding good,

(03:18):
sound good. Don't try to gask me out. It's fine,
It's fine. No, I just I felt that song because
it's almost like, you know, she talks about love. Is
this just a silly game that forces you to act
this way? No, it's not a game. It forces you
to screen my name then pretend that you can't stay.
It's like, that's just what it is. Though. It's the

(03:39):
cycle of you know, being together, breaking up, getting back together.
But what the sad part is is that as a child,
you look at relationships and they only show you the
fairy tales. And if someone makes a mistake or makes
a poor decision, because I don't ever say that I
make mistakes. This is one thing that I've learned. I
don't ever say that I make mistakes. I made a decision,

(03:59):
and if the decision doesn't work with what your alignment
is for your life, then for other people it may
seem like a mistake. But now I made that decision
and I got to own it. So here I'm interested
to hear what our expert today is going to say
about that, because it was something that, Yeah, that was
something that I was kind of like, all right, when
you told me you made the choice and not a mistake,

(04:21):
it kind of made me think like you were very
aware of what you did and there was a reason
behind it. So I kind of got a little bit
more respect for that versus you just say that. I
want to explain, no, for sure, for sure? All right
in the house today we have with us Melissa do Maas.
Melissa is a licensed marriage and family therapists with over

(04:41):
fifteen years of experience in psychotherapy. She runs her own practice,
You Help You, where she specializes in guide inclines through
the complexities of overcoming emotional and physical trauma. She also
helps clients of all ages deal with grief, relationship issues, parenting,
transitions in life, family conflict, selfist. But you have a

(05:02):
whole lot that you You're gonna everything that's on. My
question is do you have a therapist for yourself? As
I've heard that before and I didn't know if it
was actually true, but it makes sense because if you're
helping people impact so many things about their life, I'm
sure that can be pretty heavy. Absolutely, it can be happy. Well,
thank you for coming in today. This is a heavy

(05:25):
topic for us. It is. It's a heavy topic and
I felt that Lauren Hill song I'm Still in It
and a couple of candles, you know, good stuff. So
this episode we're talking about loosely um infidelities, past transgressions,
and how we were able to get through it. And
these are questions that debout I've gotten so many times

(05:45):
from people, men and women, because we've openly spoken about
the fact that we've been together for eighteen years, since
we were eighteen years old actually, so within the course
of our relationship, we've naturally had moments where either he's
had a transmission or I have had one where we
were able to through it, and um we both get
questions at your questions from men like you, Haskadine ever cheated?
And if she has, would you ever take her back?

(06:07):
And how did you take her back? Right? And I
get the how do you regain trust? Or how we're
how is deval able to like trust you again after that? Um?
Because sometimes too, I think there's a difference also between
men and women. You know, mental cheat and then women
will take them back. But if a woman cheats, just like,
oh she's damaged. Goods Now she's for the homies, she's
for the bro she's for the streets, and that's it. UM.

(06:28):
So yeah, we wanted to really unpack more so not
necessarily details about what has happened in our transgressions, but
more so how we were able to speak about it, um,
move forward from it and be able to regain that
healthy relationship that we once had or I mean we
want to continue to have. UM. So can you tell
us a little bit maybe about yourself, just in your
own words and a little bit of um, you know

(06:48):
what you do on a day to day basis right? Absolutely? Um.
As you mentioned, I do have my own private practice
call you help you. It's located in southern California, and
through my practice, I do work with individuals that have variants,
um some sort of trauma. I also help individuals hill
from grief and loss. And I also work with couples.
And the work that I do with couples a lot
of times as relationship satisfaction and or it's you know,

(07:10):
things of infidelity wanting to come in and talk about
it and to rebuild their marriage. Um. And that is
work that I enjoy, enjoy helping couples to build what
I call their marriage to point oh, because looking at
the marriage that may have had some transgressions or um,
some challenges, we are now rebuilding a new marriage. We're
not starting over from the marriage that we have before
or the relationship that we had before. That's interesting marriage

(07:32):
to point. Do you find that the same couples come
in maybe for like a three point oh or a
four point like is this something that you have revisiting?
You know, clients that come in with the same kind
of issues that maybe have to rehash for a second
or third time. Usually that same issue with boils down
to communication. It's not always infidelity, but it's always okay,
we're having communication challenges again, all right, let's revisit that.

(07:53):
And it's funny you talk about marriage two point oh.
This is part of the reason why we're having a
vowel renewal because to get back to sto every time.
Part of the reasons why we ended up having such
a hard time in our marriage was because of how
we got married and the way everything happened. It wasn't
on a strong foundation. So we were trying to build

(08:14):
in our marriage while being in our marriage, and I
feel like, you know, I stumbled, and we both had
to try to find ways to kind of regroup and
get back to what the right way to do things are.
So lessen, I'll take you back to where we were
when I told Codeine that I cheated. We were at
home and like I said, I'm really and I'm an
open books. Like I never hired my phone. She always

(08:35):
has access to my phone. And at the time where
I was working, um one of my coworkers text me
and he had text me something lude you know, about
the young lady. And I didn't know he was texting me,
but my phone was dinging and Codeine was just like,
you know, your phone was ringing. I was like, well,
tell me who it is. So then she picks up

(08:56):
the phone and then she sees the text message. The
reason why I'm not disclosing everything because I don't want
to involve outside parties. This is about Cadine and I,
so I don't want to seem like I'm being vague
and I don't want I want to tell a story,
but as outside party that may not be asking for
this to be public knowledge. So when she saw the
text message, she comes to me and she's just like, hey, um,
did you sleep with so and so? And I was like, yeah,

(09:21):
and I didn't bad and I she didn't bad and
I and this is when I started to realize that
I had made a decision out of mistake, because ultimately
I felt like I wanted to get caught so I
can tell her why I did it. It was almost
like I was feeling this way and I needed to

(09:41):
tell you and show you what what you did to
me made me want to do this, and I didn't
feel bad about it, and I wanted to have a
discussion with it. So we sat down and she cried
and she was like why, And we talked about our
differing sex drives all the time, and over time, you know,
we had had discussions and we were communicating, but I

(10:01):
didn't understand her process and she didn't understand my process.
We were still very, very young, so I was expecting
immediate change, and I wasn't getting changed fast enough. So
I took it upon myself to say, you know what,
I just I'm having resentment. I just need to go
and do it. And also it's also time and opportunity.
It was just it was just there. I didn't have
to ask for it. I wasn't looking for it. It

(10:23):
was presented to me and it was just kind of like, okay.
And then this is when I realized that the choice
I made taught me something. After the act was done,
I didn't feel fulfilled. And it was in that moment
that I realized, like I'd rather be at home arguing
and talking about what I'm not getting then trying to

(10:44):
get it somewhere else, because it was done and I
wasn't fulfilled. And it was it was in that moment
that I realized that I did not I didn't want
to be that person, you know. I didn't want to
be a serial cheater. I didn't want to have to
sneak around. I just didn't want to do it. It
just wasn't It wasn't good. But I honestly feel like
I needed that moment to be where I am now
and I needed to discuss that with Codeine and we

(11:05):
can be open about it. And she cried and she
was mad and she was upset. And one thing I
didn't do, um I didn't force her to get over it,
you know I was. I was never like get over it.
It happened. It was like, this is how I felt,
this is what I did, and I apologize and I'm like, yeah,

(11:26):
I don't like apologizing because the best apologies changed behavior,
but I was like, this is what it is. And
I was just like, take your time and don't let
me know what you want to do. But I appreciate
it off the bat with Devot was that when I
confronted him with it, like there was no way to
really lie about it. So I feel like he had
to be honest in that moment um. But in his
honesty then it opened up the doors for like more communication.

(11:49):
And though I would never want to say take the
blame for it, because again, he made his choice, he's
an individual, it did cost me to self reflect absolutely
and be like, oh okay, so I wasn't doing X
Y Z, or I wasn't fulfilling this, or maybe I
was on autopilot. And you said the autopilot we had Jackson.

(12:09):
We had Jackson work autopilot. It was like work Jackson autopilot,
and it was like, hey baby, I'm here, Hey baby here.
And I didn't cheat to prove to her that I
can go do it. It was time and opportunity. But
then you know, it was just like it was. It happened.
It happened in that moment, and you know, I did
appreciate him being honest and being open, and I think
that's why I was able to then digest it all

(12:31):
take my time to kind of say, all right, hey,
there's some things that maybe I need to change and
be more attentive to um be. He was honest, so
I appreciated that. And I never looked at the VALI
and said, like, this is just a ain't ship dude,
who's out here running these streets, cheating with whoever's throwing
in his way. And he wasn't, you know, but in
me trying to get past that, it's still eight at me.

(12:53):
And I think that's what, in turn caused me to
be like, oh, time and opportunity. Here came homeboy that
I knew from me years ago, and it was like, Yo,
what's the chances we link up on the street. We
exchanged numbers and then oh, reminiscent about old days and
talking about you know, things that used to happen around
the way, and that turned into damn you grew up,

(13:14):
Damn you grew up, you know, and it's like all right,
and then that slowly became like really inappropriate text conversations,
you know, planning to try to see if we can
meet up, Like that's what started to happen, the emotional affair,
you know. And for me in that moment, it felt like, well,
I got the one up now, because it's like, Hi,

(13:35):
I got my own little thing going on there. But
it's like, honestly, what was I doing that for? And
when he found out about it in the very beginning,
he felt like I lied about it, like I should
have just divulged everything the way that he did. What
he had seen in that moment wasn't actually sext thing
that happened between the two of us. It was something else.
But because it was a bit in a piece of

(13:55):
a conversation, He then pieced things together and made his
own narrative, and at that point I kind of felt like, shoot,
I can't backtrack now and try to, like, you know,
salvage what i've what he's seen, because there's no full
story here. And then I wasn't forthright with the information
off the bat, so he's just going to be like, well,
you lied to the beginning. So that's where we differed
in our scenario. He was just like, you saw it,

(14:17):
that's what it was here. It is me. I'm just like, well,
you only saw this bit that really wasn't sexting in
that moment, but it doesn't make sense and it was
just came a mess yeah exactly. So for him now
he's just like, well, damn, you know what else didn't
you tell me? Leaving out like you know, it's convenient
that we didn't see all the text messages. You were
deleting text messages. So if you're deleting text messages and

(14:38):
I only see a piece of it, like what am
I led to believe after that? And it just looks bad?
It does. It looks bad. And that phone, that phone
gets people in trouble all the time. Autely absolutely with
the iPad whatnot. Who's more upfront about their transgressions? Is
it a man thing women thing? Was his personality? I

(15:00):
think his personality. And I have yet, in the years
that I've been doing this, I have yet to seen
a scenario like yours, Devot be honest. Usually it's one
person calling in and saying I caught this other person
or I caught them, you know, because of their phone
or or whatever the situation is. I have yet, you know,

(15:20):
until today, in this moment, have met with individuals who
have said I was up front. I was honest. But yes, Conde,
you did see the text message, and that's what prompted
the question. But I wasn't going to tell her. I didn't.
And then I think this is important, This is important
to discuss. I didn't go out to cheat to teach

(15:43):
her a lesson. I got that, so I wasn't expecting
her to find out what happens. Is it just I'm
a horrible cheat when you when you're not used to
trying to hide stuff. So when she found out, it
was just like yeah, you know, like it was just
like yeah, like I did it because I just do
not like having too hide and then make a lie
and the lie on top of a lie. But that's

(16:03):
just me, That's who I am. So what hurt me
most about Codine's transgression was when I asked about it
and she knew that there was more there, and I
asked who he was. She didn't upfront tell me. She
made it seem like it was something it wasn't, and
for me, I was just like, dang, I I gave
you everything and you didn't give it to me. And
men always say this, women are better cheatings than us

(16:26):
and always heard men said all the time, And I'll
be honest in that that moment, I felt like it
was because when she first told me about I believe
them and I wasn't worried about it, and you have
no reason. I had no reason not too. So then
when it came up again and then I found something else,
and then it was like, well then what the hell
is this? Then I was like, oh, yeah, well yeah,

(16:47):
now that was exactly it became that. And I think
what I was going through at that point was the
beating myself process, like you idiot, Like how the hell
did you even let it come to this? Like why
we even having this discussion here? Katin? You know better
than that. Ken, this is so not you, Like, there
were literally about a thousand kndine sitting on my writers
at that point that I literally was just like, I

(17:10):
legitimately want to disappear. Um Am I crazy for feeling
like that, because I felt like, you know, to this
day sometimes I have moments where I'm just like, I
can't believe I did, you know, I can't believe in it,
and I'm shaking my fist in the air because it's
so not like me. But you know, is that uncommon
or have you heard something like that before? Yes, I've
heard that, And I think it boils down to us
being disappointed in ourselves because we hold ourselves at such

(17:31):
a high level of such esteems like that's not even
my thing? Why would I do that? And we question ourselves.
But I don't think that it's unheard of or uncommon
to feel that way or to have those feelings and
to look back and like, now, what did I do
that for? Again? And to have those questions. But then
those are your answers moving forward. So if you find
yourself tempted or find yourself in a situation, then you
have that to reflect upon. And as you said, they're

(17:53):
not mistakes. There their lessons learning and choices that you've made.
So you can look back on those choices and say,
I know what the outcome look before do I want
to do this moving forward? And then you have a
choice again yes or no? Right exactly? I mean, how
do you normally approach couples who come to you with
infidelity issues? Are there some common reasons that you can
see that you know? Is there any likes you know?

(18:15):
I don't want to say statistics person, but maybe statistics right,
just in your experience, have you seen certain common factors
that monogamous relationship UM people come in and there's they're
cheating issues. One of the most common ones that I
hear is that the man and the woman are on
different pages sexually and different pages meaning one wants it
more than than the other, one has a larger sex

(18:36):
sexual appetite, one possibly has uh a history of trauma.
So there are some things in the in the bedroom
that they're not comfortable with that the significant other would like,
so they step out to get that. Some individuals come
in because the family has changed, rather they are new
parents or they are now parents and multiples, and then
that changes the dynamic in the marriage as well. Sometimes

(18:57):
it's just they've taken their eyes off of the marriage.
You know, if you're married or if you're in a
relationship you've been there for a while, it's very common
to get on autopilot, which is where you come in,
you come and you go, you kiss, you hug, you thisss,
you that, and just every day, and you're not taking
up moment to really pour into the relationship, which is
so important. And honestly, all of it, it all boils
down to communication. It all it boils down to communication,

(19:20):
and that lack of your communication, that lack of being
able to say my needs aren't being met and or
if you're saying it, the other person isn't hearing you,
which also boils down to a breakdown in communication. I've
heard in the past of people say, oh, well he
did x y z or she did x y Z,
so I did it just as a source of like revenge,
like it felt better to do it because he did it.
And that's kind of where I fell into with one

(19:42):
particular scenario that I had one of my transgressions and
it was kind of like, you know, he had done
something me being in my feelings about it was just
typoal ship whatever. I'm just gonna start sex in this dude,
and who knows wherever it goes, it goes, and that's
just what it was in that moment. And then you
reflect on the fact, like, Okay, if this was being
done to me, I wouldn't think it was just sexting

(20:03):
or it wasn't just you know. And then it became
a time when I started kind of self loathe and
just feel really really upset at myself for like even
allowing myself to suc come to that resentment that I
felt towards him, And that in part could have just
been um us not speaking more openly about it, which
is where I'm thinking sometimes maybe in retrospect, it would
have helped to have maybe a counselor or a therapist

(20:26):
speak with us about it. But at that time we
were just so gung ho about talking through the relationship
by ourselves together because we feel like, you know who
knows us better than ourselves. You know, I know you,
you know me. We can explain that to each other,
and one thing we pride ourselves on is being open
with conversations with each other. So if I did ask
him like, hey, I found something. Is this true? He's

(20:46):
always been like yes, and then he's never like lied
about it or went round about He was very straightforward
with it. This is what it is, what it is.
I want to live my truth. Absolutely mistakes, I make decisions.
Why the piece about rebuilding trust. I think that what's
most important is to be honest with one another, to

(21:08):
be truthful, to share that truth no matter what it is,
and then to also be transparent and to be open
to how the other person may receive or how they
feel about your truth and what you're sharing. One of
my favorite things. It's a hard thing to do, but
I'll be honest, it's one of my favorite things to do.
When I meet new couples and there's been infidelity, is
I want to lay it all on the table. Let's
lay at all your truth. It's gonna hurt, it's gonna

(21:29):
be uncomfortable, it's gonna be scary, but we have to
lay it all out. And the one thing that I
will ask them, I say, have you told her everything?
Have you told him everything? And if the answer is yes,
then my next question is if anything else comes up
after this session, that means that you intentionally left it
out that you intentionally did not tell that person. And

(21:49):
sometimes I'll get the oh, yeah, I've told everything, or
sometimes I'll get the you know less weight I want
to talk to my significant other again or let them
know something else, because the healing is not really gonna
take place until you've been completely open and honest. You
know I heard you that. I would say that truth
came easy for you, but you having those moments Knina
feeling like this isn't even like me, then yes, it's

(22:11):
hard to be able to tell that and it hurts
from I mean, it comes from a place of also
to upbringing, like just to be a kind of umbrella
term I could think about communication when it comes to
our families. I come from a family where it's just
like you don't tell this, you don't tell that, how
you don't tell people your business, you don't everything is
like hush, hush, quiet, quietly together. He comes from a

(22:32):
family where it's like we're an open book and everyone's
gonna talk about it, and we're gonna sit down and
we're gonna have family caucuses and we're gonna discuss everything.
My family community very very communicative, and I did learn
from a young age when I told the truth to
my parents no matter how bad it was, they helped
me through it. Right. So for me in my life,
telling the truth has always been my freedom when you know,
when I stole something, or when I thought I was

(22:54):
in trouble with something, let me just tell and I'll
deal with the concept. When my father used to tell
me all the time, a man deals with his consequences period.
And I've had to learn that everybody doesn't have that
same mindset. I think sometimes people make the mistake and
they weaponize it, you know, to say, well, I'm just
telling you the truth. You know, but that doesn't mean
it has to be hurtful. That doesn't mean it has
to be spiteful. That doesn't mean it has to be

(23:14):
from a negative place. So telling the truth it can hurt,
but but the truth should not be used as a
can I can I play the advocate for a second,
because I get a lot of this from men because
I give them the same information. It was like, how
did you get Codeine to trust you? And I tell
I told her everything, everything sold and it was just like, no, bro,
I'm not doing it. And this is the question that
I get and sometimes it seems valid. And I even

(23:37):
said this to Codeine. There were times that I was
honest with Codeine about things and her response wasn't positive.
You know, I felt like her response was very toxic.
So for me, it was like, why bring something toxic
into our relationship if I can just keep it to
myself and we just have peace at home. That's the toxin.

(23:59):
That's that's still the toxin. Being able to keep it
to yourself. Now you're left with that toxin inside of
you that's eventually going to come out in some way
or another, one way, shape or form, whether it's through
guilt rather it's through um not being able to have
the liberty really fully living your life. Having told you
and that's why I can't. I can't do it personally.
But I try to tell people that and they're just like,

(24:21):
I can't do it because once I say this, and
this is the truth, once you tell someone that you've
done something that they don't agree with, they always look
at you differently. Sometimes I'll see that when individuals are
in a relationship or they're on the on the journey
to to get married, they'll come in and say, you
know what, this thing happened to me in my past,
or this thing happened to me in my childhood, and
I want to be the best person for my significant

(24:42):
other moving forward. How can I deal with it? And
so we work on it as an individual. And then
at the end of that work, I asked them, where
are you how much of this do you want to
share with somebody else? And sometimes answer is none. Sometimes
the answer they get to a place where it's now
off their shoulders and they are ready to tell their
truth um and and it's powerful being able to get

(25:04):
that off of your chest and being able to share
that with somebody else. There's so much power and just
being able to to speak our truth. It's funny you
mentioned when couples come into you, it's like, are we
gonna salvage this or are we gonna go our separate ways?
Do you find that most couples have an idea of
what they want to do coming into it or is
it like really doing the sage? In most cases they do.

(25:27):
Sometimes it's once one person is still upset, so they're like,
I showed up, but I don't know yet, and I'm like,
that's okay, you're here there exact kind of like you're here,
So that says something to me also, and so you know,
if you feel that it's worth showing up, then then
show up. But then I also warned people, and I
warn all my clients about this that there is a

(25:48):
risk and therapy. And so for example, if you come
in saying I want to marry this person, let's do
some pre marital counseling, and then through your personal development,
through our work together, you realize like, nah, I don't
want to do that. That's a risk. That's a risk
that you take, you know, but but there's no lose
in it. If you go into therapy and you realize
you no longer want this thing you came in for,

(26:08):
then that's a win because now you have clarity. If
you come in and you realize, yes, I do really
want this marriage and I want to keep moving forward,
then you have clarity in that too. So there's no lose.
But it is a risk because you may change your mind.
I'm throwing out this break word right now because I've
heard you know, we've even tried this, like okay, well
you know things aren't going well, let's let's take a break.

(26:30):
Let's you know, time out. Have you had couples, you know,
come to you and say they're considering this option for
a break. What does it mean to take a break?
Does it look different for different people? Um? And does
the break happen kind of automatically, doesn't mean like okay,
this on the road to break up or is there
a chance to kind of you know, uh, save it right?
I think, Uh, it is common for people to take

(26:52):
a break, especially when individuals are in a situation where
they've been together since they were younger, since they were
in high school or college years, are early adulthood and
now feeling like I want to explore the world or
I want to make sure that this is where I'm
to be before I make that commitment, especially if they're
in a relationship where they're not yet married and then
they're now looking to see if they want to move

(27:12):
forward and to actually get engaged or to get married.
So let's just take a moment to see if this
is what we really want before we make that jump.
So a break can be common. And UM, one of
the biggest things that's most important in taking a break,
it boils down to communication. And I know we've been
talking a lot about communication, but it's so important. And
one thing I tell couples that I work with that
even in your silence, you're still communicating something. Even when

(27:35):
you're giving the silent treatment, you're still saying a whole lot. Yeah, no,
that's so true. We've had times where we tried to
take a break in. I don't know, I don't think
the terms of our breaks really worked because it's a
very weird thing. It's like, even if we were piste
off at each other, it's like we just couldn't stay
away from each other. We just couldn't stay away from
each other. I love you, I love you, and I'm um,

(27:57):
I mean like infatuated with her outside of just love,
like I'm in fact with her as a person. Even
when we argue and we debate, there's something about that
that just, you know, gives me an uprising in my soul,
like I feel like I need to be with this
person fire signs, but all sorts of flame, full full transparency.
Right with breaks As a man, right, it's hard to

(28:20):
consider your significant other going on a break because the
first thing you think is them being with someone else.
I came to terms very early in our relationship. And
maybe this is crazy. You can tell me them crazy
that at some point Kadina is going to be with
somebody else. I just I came to terms with that
when we had our arguments and our debates and we
had our transgressions, and people ask me something, what do

(28:41):
you think kadin was with this person? I honestly feel like,
I'm like, I don't care. If I didn't meet Cadine
when I was eighteen and I met her when I
was twenty five, that seven years of us not being together,
she probably would have been with other people. Do you
think it is crazy? Because people think that I'm crazy
when I say that, even with her, the transgression she
had right, She'll say that, She'll say me because I
said it all the time. I said, well, you said

(29:02):
you wasn't texting them what you was. You say you'll
never slept together, How do I know? Because you wouldn't
admit that. And then she'd be like, you don't trust me,
and I'm like, I don't trust you. I'm just saying
that I don't know. It doesn't matter to me either way,
and the people like you don't care? And does do
I sound crazy saying that? At that point, you know,
we've had to clean about so much stuff that I'm

(29:23):
just like at this point, like, I mean, we know
that we're not crazy for that, because people will say
the same thing to me that I have women say,
like so you don't think like Devout being in the
industry now and he's going to be a big time actor,
like you're not worried about him doing that, Like and
I'm just kind of like the VAL's gonna make his choices.
But at least I know that we're going to be
honest with each other that it then empowers me to
make a choice. Am I going to stick around? And

(29:45):
I'm not going to stick around? Like that's what we've
given each other. So you know, you can weigh in
on that. But I know there's also different levels to break,
So I'm gonna break that down. There are different levels
And and no, I don't think you're crazy Devout for
a thinking that. What I do here, though, is that
you've made your peace with that. So if she has
or if she hasn't, you've made your peace. And if
she were to share truth that that is in line

(30:08):
with your peace, and it also helps the lower the blow,
Like Okay, Well, in my mind I thought that this
may have happened. Then that helps a lesson or lower
the blow, and hopefully you know, in our minds, we're
thinking that we're protecting our hearts by saying, Okay, it
already happened, so sorry. Your truth in line with my peace.
The reason why I think that's important is because your

(30:28):
truth to other people may be bad or harsh, but
if it's in line with my peace and it doesn't matter,
that's important because so many people allow other people to
get involved in their relationships. So it's like, you should
be upset about what he did, because but if she's
not upset, then it shouldn't matter. Your relationship, your rules

(30:48):
that we can share help me know that's important. It
is important. I get it because a lot of times
you have people who lean on, you know, friends, fan
and that's one thing I would say that the val
and I really don't do is calling in reinforcements because
as quick as we tend to maybe get past something,

(31:08):
then you have that family member or that friend who
still piste off about it, and then it just creates
more of a toxic environment. You're trying to work past something,
you know, and that's something we even try to tell
our younger siblings and like our friends, like, please don't
involve me and what you got going on. I would
like to maintain the relationship that I have with you
for what it is. Your relationship with him or her

(31:29):
has absolutely nothing to do with right, because you know
each other on intimate level that other people don't, so
you can be more forgiving and your heart is softer,
whereas someone on the outside, they just know the dirt
that you've shared in the and whatever other rules they
made up in their mind about your relationship, they can
easily detach at that point for sure. Well, according to Bustle,
there are five different ways that couples can take a
break from each other, all right, So I'm gonna say

(31:51):
the first one is the black outbreak. That's when you
the couple has no contact with each other, like zero
ZiLs nothing, We don't we couldn't do that, we tried that.
Then there's the not setting parameters, when a couple doesn't
set rules for what a break means, like whether or
not they can date other people or not. I think

(32:11):
that too would be an issue for us, because when
we talked about break, it was kind of like, well,
so are you going to talk to somebody else, somebody else.
My wife set rules, right, and when she set the
rules and break them and she would just be like, well,
I set that rule, but when you started it, I
didn't think I was gonna feel this way. So now
we've got to change the rule. Change And that was

(32:33):
an issue with us. A cop have a moment it
was like, you want to do a break and it's
just like, yeah, I'm just like whatever. That like in
the moment of me being just like upset, like whatever,
I'm tired of arguing about the same over and over again. Fine,
do whatever you want. And then he doesn't, and I'm like, nik,
he wasn't supposed to do it. I think you're actually
gonna act on that now that she wanted to be
a whole actor. What we're gonna do is and seen renegotiates.

(32:58):
There we go, we shape the contract. I think is
I'm cool with that. I'm fine with if you're being
honest and saying you didn't you know, you didn't want this,
or you didn't expect this, let's change up. What I'm
not cool with, though, is you're just getting a whole
attitude and then making demands without communications. There's been growth
since there's been a growth. So this third one here,

(33:21):
the monogamy break, is something that I think that probably
we would have wanted to implement on each other. And
that's couples explicitly decide to implement a no dating rule
and it's clearly discussed that there will be no dating
or sleeping with anyone other than or So what break
is that and also to it depends on what's the
reason for the reason. Some people want to go on
a break because they feel like, oh, I want to break,

(33:42):
then I can go ahead and just sleep with whoever.
Some people want to have a break because they need
to just like reprogram themselves. Maybe they need to kind
of reassess where they are personally. Maybe it maybe an
individual thing and not just always wanted to sleep with
somebody else. They may want to detach a little bit, right,
And I think that's healthy. Would you say for someone
who wants it's healthy, especially if you're on a journey

(34:03):
of just getting to know self, because there are some
parts of self that you're not going to get to
know in a relationship. But then on the flip side,
there's some parts of self that you will only get
to know in a relationship because you guys, I'm sure
that you have been tested in ways in your marriage
that you were not tested in ways in your singleness. Absolutely,
I think marriage has made me a very more mature,
a hard working, discipline person. Like. Marriage has definitely helps

(34:27):
me bro that in parenting. Must not even talk about
its parenting is in a whole nother level taught me,
has taught me discipline, like, Yeah, for sure, it definitely
has taught me discipline outside of just sex, because we
talk about sex a lot, because that's probably the number
one question. Marriage has taught me discipline on how I

(34:49):
respond to my wife rather than react when she says
something or does something. Don't just react. You gotta respond
and respond. You take a second, and you're you're a
reactor and I've learned that she's she's a reactor and
I'm a little sensitive. So you guys have to balance
each other. Yeah, we don't have to balance. This one

(35:11):
is interesting. The pre the prelude to the breakup break
a break that becomes a breakup. Sometimes a couple realizes
that they're on a break and that's pretty much what
they want to do is break up. Yeah, sometimes that's common,
especially if we don't have the courage or we're not
ready yet to completely step away, then we may do
a little preview to see what it feels like, kind

(35:31):
of like dipping our toe into the pool before we
decide to jump in. See that's you know what. I
don't mind that because rather than have resentment with somebody
because you feel obligated and feel stuck, let's go on
a break. If I don't miss you after a couple
of days, I don't speak to you for a week.
You know, I don't miss this person, and I'm not
like you going that break and then you realize that

(35:51):
it's like, you know what, let's shake hands. I think
that makes you drink every now and again. But it
doesn't have to be that. But I feel like some
people either hold in or nothing. You know, we either
together and it's analogamous. There's there's no trial and error,
and like we talked before, there's no grace in relationships.
There's always we're together right now, you follow all my rules.
A minute you step out is over. I have yet

(36:12):
to see a relationship that works that now that does
not work. I haven't seen not one relationship, no, not
for long. No, we've had friends who they say that
this is my this is it, and then they've even
even given grace. And after a while I was like, well,
I thought you said you wasn't gonna put up with that,
and he's like, well, you know it, and I'm like,
I don't judge them now. I'm like, I'm like you see,

(36:34):
like that's that's life. It is life, and it's huge.
And while we were talking about the topic of renegotiation,
that's important in all relationships. At some point in your relationship,
in your marriage, you're going to have to renegotiate partnership.
When you first got married, life looks very different before kids.
Whence you have kids, life looks very different. Or when
you go into relationship you think, well I'm going to

(36:55):
be this way, he's going to be that way, or
we're gonna do things this way. And then children kind
our jobs change. One goes back to school, and now
the household looks different, so we need to renegotiate partnership.
I know, before I said I do all the cooking,
but now that I'm back at school, that's not working anymore.
We've definitely been It's funny because so many people have

(37:18):
have like hashtag us a couple of goals, right, not
gonna lie hate it. I do hate it, Like I
appreciate it and I love it, and I appreciate the admiration,
but I feel like they get it from social media,
and social media is a highlight. And then I feel
like we owe them the truth about everything so that
you can realize in yourself, like, no, you're you're in

(37:40):
a couple. You're a couple of goal to you know,
you and you and your significant other being together seven
years and you're fighting through and y'all argue and y'all
go on breaks and you're getting back together. That's a
couple of goals. People who are fighting for their relationships
is a couple of goal, not just taking the nice
pictures for us. I feel like it's important to divulge.
Some people say, you know, you know, why would you
talk about your past trains questions? Because it's important. It's important,

(38:02):
it's a testimony and it can really help someone else
when sometimes we go through things in life, not just
for ourselves but for somebody else. About the couple's goals.
One thing that when I think about you guys, and
I see hashtag couples goals. What I think of as
the goal is the friendship. You know, you guys have
a friendship, and I feel that here. I see that

(38:24):
in your social media. I see that in your in
your videos, and that is so important. And I know
it sounds cliche, like, oh, you have to be friends
with your significant other, so so cliche, but it's so
cliche because it's so important. It's true doing what's saying Like,
I know it sounds cliche, yes, because as soon as
you say that, people like here she goes with that

(38:44):
textbook called monster, Like I'm saying it because it's true.
You know, I see it in my professional work and
I see it in my personal life as well. I
think the friendship aspect of our relationship has saved us
a lot. It gives so much grace. It saved us
so much because at that point, those points where you
had those difficult conversations and it's just like damn, I
can't believe my husband caught me with this, and it's

(39:05):
just like damn. But that there's a friendship hair that
makes it that much harder to just walk away, right,
you know what, It makes it that much harder to
walk away. People give more grace to their friends they
do than they give this significant or to that toxic
as family member over Thanksgiving, Like you know what I mean? Why? Why?

(39:26):
Why do you think that people are willing to give
more grace other than the fact that, Okay, I'm not
sleeping with my best friend. But it's like, why are
you willing to give more grace to this person than
someone you want to spend the rest of your life with.
I think that in a friendship there's a level of
intimacy and there's a level of closeness and vulnerability that
we don't always see in relationships. Sometimes people feel that

(39:46):
in a relationship they have to act a certain way
or put a mask on. But the truth is, the
best relationship is the one where you can take that
mask off, you can completely be yourself and that person
loves you unconditionally no matter what. And so when we're
not friends with our significant other, we're truly doing ourselves
in our relationship with disservice because there's so much growth
that can happen and being your significant other's friends and

(40:09):
wanting to hang out with each other because there will
be some points in your relationship where you can't have
sex and So if the relationship is all about the
sex and it's going to crumble, but if we can
set up and play cards together because I just had
a baby two weeks ago and I cannot have sex yet,
then and we can still enjoy each other's company, tell
you something, you just you really just spoke. You just

(40:30):
spoke our life. We talked so much how high my
sex drive is. And Cadine had three children and her
sex drive business high. And men asked me all the time, bro,
how do you stay monogamous when you your woman doesn't
want to have sex? Codine and I watch movies, You
play cards, We edit videos. We like, there's so many
other things we do during that time that I enjoy that.

(40:55):
Of course, I enjoy having sex with my wife, like
she's beautiful, you know, I'm a man. I love it,
But there's so many other things. So I have I
have a question for you, codem me. Okay, once you
found out that I cheated, how were you able to
get through that? Like how were you able to put
yourself into space where it was like, okay, let me

(41:15):
start trying to trust the vale again, or trying to
work on this marriage, Like what were you going through
during that time. Well, um, I think the first thing
for me was I knew that it wasn't on you
to do anything, particularly to make me trust you again.
The first step was I had to decide, Okay, here

(41:37):
I am presented with the scenario. This is what happened.
I'm now giving a choice. Do I want to stick
around to work this out or do I not. The
first thing for me wasn't to eat automatically throw it
on you and say, de Val, you have to do X,
Y and Z and now prove to me that you're
worthy of you know, me sticking around, And you have
to do X y Z to prove that I can try,
Like you have to open up your phone to me

(41:58):
now and show me your phone and day like to me,
I didn't feel like that was necessary for me. I
felt like, all right, and do that And I didn't
do that. No, and I felt like, Okay, I have
to make a choice. I love Devot enough to stick
around based off of what he's told me. Also, knowing
to Deval is just not like I said before, ain't ship, dude,
It's just like out hearing these streets. Um, I don't

(42:21):
want to say you had a reason for cheating, because
I don't like having a reason for cheating means that
there's like, you know, there's an excuse almost they are
built in. So I wouldn't say there was a reason
for it, but it did have me kind of have
a period of introspection now to say, okay, Katine, so
this has happened. Can you understand at least where he
may have been, what he may have been feeling, what

(42:42):
may have led up to these chain of events that
maybe you can now take control of and change. Can
you take a little bit of a responsibility and saying,
you know what, maybe I wasn't doing X y Z
in that moment, and that's exactly what I did, because
you did have some valid points when we started having
the conversation. Though I was hurt, though I was upset it, um,
I do feel like there was areas that I could

(43:03):
potentially grow on to then give it a second chance,
if that makes sense. So it makes sense because I
felt like I was in the same space. Yeah, so
I felt like at that point, you know what, this
room for growth for both of us. We were both
really young, we were going through a lot of things
at the same time. UM So for me, I felt like,
you know what, let me give to the out another
chance because it's worth it. UM. I found I think

(43:23):
there was value in our relationship at that point too.
We had already had our first son. It was like,
you know, after this one scenario, I'm not gonna throw
everything away, UM. And I felt like you were just
worth it, like you were my you are my best friend.
In that moment, you were my best friend. And I
feel like we had a moment and it happens, and
I think you're human, and I didn't want to treat
you as um as this scenario being like something that

(43:44):
was super human, like you know what I mean, like
you like you don't have feelings, like you don't have emotions.
I tried to really really it as hard as it was,
I tried to really kind of think about where you
were in your mindset at that point, and then I
had to decide if it was something that I could
deal with. And you gave me time. I mean time
was also a very big factor for us, because I

(44:05):
was then able to say you know what, slowly but
surely as I got over it, I knew that I
was able to just, you know, give it another shot.
Does that sound like Melissa likes, like the proper steps
you should take if you want to be in a relationship. Yeah. Absolutely.
One thing a few things that Kadin said that I
really appreciate. She didn't not take ownership for for your choice,

(44:27):
but she did see where some areas she could be
responsible in making changes within herself. And then she also
checked in and said, is this worth it? Is this
something that I want to continue on? And when we
make that decision knowing that it can be challenging moving forward,
but now we've made a choice to stay and so
if I choose to say, then that means I'm willing
to do the work to make this happen. And the

(44:48):
other thing that was said that I really appreciate is
that you gave her time, which is so important because
sometimes you know, when we have our transgressions, we feel like,
well that's over, I've changed, I'm not doing that anymore.
Let's move forward. Like no, I still need time. I
need time to heal. And just like if couldn't get
I'm sorry, couldn't get the wound, or devout gets a wound,
it's going to heal differently, and so we all heal
at different rates and giving each other time to be

(45:10):
able to heal and have our own process is so
important for sure. And I think it's a point you
said about the time too, because people will hear this
and they will feel like, I gotta feel like that
in the moment it happens, and you didn't feel like
this in the moment. It's like I said, uh, hindsight,
when I found out about codeine, I did not feel
like that. Initially, I was pissed, like ape ship pissed,

(45:33):
and I wasn't sitting here, you know, like, well, let
me think back about introspection. It was all about I'm
about to kill his fool, and then you know, it's
a time. It's a time. So I think it's important
that you couldn't have reacted like that with me because
I was like probably nursing Jackson at the time, so
I couldn't fly off the hands like I might have
wanted to. I think my hormones were like still doing

(45:56):
the roller coaster fact after baby and whatnot, so I
probably was a little more um then you. You were
you you were. You were very calm when I told you,
and I think I kind of felt something was I
felt the disconnect to so it's like I almost wasn't surprised.
I kind of like when you said you set yourself
a buffer, like how you have the buffer, like, well,

(46:18):
if she did or not, like at this point, like whatever,
I made peace with it in myself. So if Kadean
did this or not, then it was whatever. I think.
I kind of had this buffer within me, like I
kind of feel like it's a disconnecting something wrong. So
it was almost like a relief when it did happen,
because it's like, my gut, my gut wasn't lying to
me when you talking about that woman, the female intuition
and the gut, I felt deep down there was something
going on, and I was like, Okay, this is not

(46:39):
post baby situations. This is actually a legitimate feeling I'm feeling.
So I want to say, in a strange way, it
was almost a sense of relief once I found out
about it, because I was like, Okay, so I'm not crazy.
I'm not crazy, So don't make my gut act up again.
I because you know, I'm not just gonna be popping
the pepto bismol like I trying to have those problems
because all of your people that rock what you're gonna

(47:01):
come for me. I'm gonna have six hundred thousand women
at my doorstep talking about I'm not trying to have
that problem for sure, But what about with you when
it when it comes to um. I guess regating trust
and being able to just kind of work pass things
like was there anything that particularly helped you that maybe
will help another man or woman. I think being an

(47:24):
athlete and realizing that everybody makes mistakes and realizing that
you realize you don't realize the mistakes you make. To
you see yourself on camera, remember that I told you
that I and this guy don't lie. I learned as
an athlete very young. I was a team when we
first started film in practice, and I remember getting screamed
that by a coach and getting berated, and he was saying,
you're supposed to run six yards and I was like

(47:44):
I ran six yards. He's like, no, you ran five
yards and I was just like I ran and we
arguing until I get into the office and we watched
the film and I was wrong. At that point is
when I realized, you know, in my mind as a person,
I thought I was doing the right thing. But it
took me seeing it from someone else's perspective to say,
you know what, I don't know everything. So I started

(48:05):
to take that approach with my friends, my family, and
my my wife, my significant others. So when you make
a decision that's in the best interest for you, I
don't anymore. I'm not in a position that way. I'm
just going to scream at you and think it has
to be done this way. So even during that time,
I remember asking you. I said, well, and this is
the guy's on the shoes. I said, do you feel
like this is something you need to continue for yourself?

(48:27):
I asked, I did because I didn't want to be
lied to and I didn't want to be deceived. So
if it was, I wanted her to be honest with
me and it will make decisions accordingly, because I didn't
want to be sitting here in the dark. So if
you feel like you need that, right, I need a choice.
If you feel like you need that, tell me, and

(48:47):
if that is then we can find a way to
work through it. Now we may not be together, but
at least I knew that you needed that, and it's
not something that I was. You know, something that I
could do is something you needed? Yeah, I think in
both scenarios it was the similar thing, like, if that's
it is going to make you happy, I would sleep
better at night knowing that you're going to be happy
doing what it is that makes you feel good, like

(49:09):
and not just feel good in that moment because it's
something sexual, but that you know being here is not
where you're going to be the happiest. And also realizing
that we can't control each other's happiness, like I can
be happy, you can be happy to be happy together,
but if I'm going to be depending on you to
create this level of happiness, not going to it's just
not gonna work. And and having those false hopes and

(49:30):
those false pretenses of just like, okay, this is what
you should expect when you do marry somebody. It's just
not realistic. Absolutely, it goes back to that a little
bit that's saying, you know, marriage is fifty fifty, Like no,
it's not. Marriage is a hundred percent you and a
hundred percent me. So I have to bring my hundred
percent self, my happiness, my joy, find that within myself,

(49:50):
and then bring that to my marriage in order for
us to have a happy marriage. The happiness cannot resonate
and depend on one person. That's so important. And the
piece about having that open communication you give the other
person a choice and continue. You made a statement and said,
you know, is are you happy? Because if you're not
happy here, it's gonna happen again, And so being honest
with each other, but also having to be honest with yourself,

(50:14):
you know, and sometimes that's hard, No, for sure, Sometimes
you may have to learn the hard way. There may
be people who feel like, you know what, in this moment,
I don't want to be with you, or it's going
to make me happier to be elsewhere, and then you
may have to take that gamble. You go elsewhere and
you realize that should that grass and greener right, and
then it's like we you know a lot of it.
Sometimes two is a gamble, don't you think? Yeah, absolutely

(50:36):
is a gamble. You can walk away and not find
what you're looking for, or you can walk away and
you also risk the other person finding somebody else, and
then you come back knocking on the door and they're like,
somebody else lives there now. But I mean, I feel
like the the trial is the tribulation, is the transgressions,
all of it whatever you want to call it, that
we've had um totally make us like stronger, Like they're

(51:00):
know such things that perfect anything, um and it's just
not realistic. But it's not. And the funny thing is
means there's a lot of memes that say, you know,
don't come to me a broken person. You got to
be a full person when you come to me to
be with me. And I'm like, if that's your mindset
for dating someone, you're gonna be in for rood or

(51:20):
that's why you alone, right, that's why you alone. Because
it's not a women a broken thing or men are broken.
We are all broken people trying to figure out life,
like we all I hate just guessing, trying to figure
out what life is. And when you're trying to be
with someone for the rest of your life, the broken
parts of them and the broken parts of you're going
to have to come together to form that union. So
I'm open to say I've I'm broken, I've been broken,

(51:42):
I'm still very much broken, and I'm just I'm working
on myself and right, and that's the important piece. It's
being able to work on yourself, having that self awareness
of like these are the pieces that I'm broken, so
I'm working on them. I think when we neglect the work,
then that's where the trouble comes in. And there will
be some pieces, as you said, that are still broken
when you come together, and some pieces that you didn't
even realize are broken. And so you come together, but

(52:04):
you have to at least be doing the work. If
you're not doing the work, then that's where the trouble
comes no, for sure. And then I also know that
the way to Valie deal with things may not be
traditional and we don't want to see like where the
experts and is. Of course that's why we brought you in.
I'm hoping what people will take away from this episode
today is that you know, everyone deals with things differently.
There's certain flags that they should maybe look for when

(52:25):
it comes to infidelities and cheating um. And also to
knowing that some most relationships that want to say, I
hope are worth the working through, and then some aren't.
And I guess trying to learn where that is some aren't.
And one question to ask yourself if you're considering a
break or considering not getting back together after transgression is
does the good outweigh the bad? And only you know

(52:48):
the answers right for sure. Yeah, this is a great Well,
we're gonna keep you around because you know, all right, guest,
so that would be good. We get tons of letters
in from people asking them right, so we picked to today.
We're okay, you can help us answer right, Let's get
expert opinion. But we're going to do that after we
take a quick break and get into some ads. This

(53:15):
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Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app. Alright, so pretty

(54:20):
heavy topic here today. We always laugh and joke Melissa that, um,
the podcast is like our therapy because people see us
in different formats like, of course on YouTube being fun
with the family and Instagram with the funny videos. But
the podcast was so perfect for us as an extension
of those because we can really like talk through some things.
And I can't tell you how many times we leave
here and on the ride home we're just like, I
can't believe he really felt that way in this today.

(54:42):
It happens a lot with us. So thank you for
sitting in and talk to some difficult things. It's your
quiet time. It's an adult time when we can talk
to each other and talk to other adults, So thank
you for that. So we're gonna jump into a listener. Letters.
We picked out two. I'm gonna go ahead and read
the first one. Hello, guys, I needed us know what
to do. I'm twenty five years old and my husband
is twenty nine, and we've been married for three years,

(55:04):
but we've been together for seven. We also have a
two and a three year old. I recently found out
my husband cheated on me exclamation points is. I found
out about it because I went through his I g
and I saw a whole conversation. Right when they were
planning it, he went to her house told me he
would be at a bar with a coworker after work.
By the time he told me that, I already knew

(55:26):
that he would go to her house. I had her address,
and I knew what was about to happen, but I
was in so much shock that I froze and didn't
know what to do. He now knows that I know
everything that happened and hasn't apologized or said anything to
make me feel like and hasn't apologized to make me
oh sorry, said anything to make me feel better. Sorry.

(55:47):
I'm so disappointed and broken about it. I feel stuck
because of the family we have, and he's an excellent father.
I can't take that away from him, but he's hurt
me so bad. I think I need a divorce, but
I just don't know. Okay, y, yeah, what do you think, Melissa.

(56:07):
That's a tough situation to be in. You know, she
said that he's an excellent father. They have two children together,
ages two and three. That means their children are close
in age and and still fairly young. Yep, um. I
think one of the things that she must decide is
what does she want, you know? And even that can

(56:27):
be writing down on a sheet of paper the pros
and the cons of of staying in, the pros and
the cons of of leaving, you know, and then just
taking some time to look at that, and to not
feel the pressure of feeling that she has to rush
a decision because it happened, that she has to react
immediately to get a divorce or to stay, to be
able to take her time. They've been married for three years,
together for seven that's not a relationship that one may

(56:50):
want to just throw away. And there's no judgment if
she decides to leave, and there's no judgment if she
decides to stay. But one of the most important pieces
is to have a communication, to have a conversation should
excuse me with her husband and and find out what
his truth is. Is this the relationship that he plans
to continue? Is this a trans transgression that he plans
to go back to? If he's making a commitment to

(57:10):
stay in the marriage and that he's not going to
continue to step out, then UM one thing that I
recommend for my couples, once we've told our truth and
we've told everything, if it's one UM particular transgression. Then
I say call that person in front of your significant
other and let them know that you no longer want
to continue that transgression and that you're making a commitment
to stay in your marriage. And that sometimes will tell

(57:32):
you what you need to know. If that person is
not willing, then let's talk about why you're not willing,
you know. But if they are willing, like, yes, I'm
willing to fight from my marriage, I will call whoever
I need to call and tell them that it's over.
Then they will step in and they will be able
to do that. Wow, this better than me because she
had a whole address that she ain't pull up and
be like, hey, would be in my group, chick. We

(57:56):
did in a couple of drive byss. You know what's
funny listening to this. They're probably in that transitional phase
where they got married, had two kids right away, you know,
trying to figure out who they are again. And Yeah,
what stuck out to me was like the two and
three year old in that whole back to that kids
can be a beast. We know what that is. That's

(58:19):
three and two is. It's literally the same thing. So
think about it. Pregnant, well married, pregnant, had a baby, pregnant,
had a baby, had infant, the newborn, infant, toddler. So
for the past four and a half years they have
not been had a lot in the same space they
were when they got married. And you're probably trying to
navigate together seven years. So that was at least what

(58:40):
for three and a half four years before children were involved,
and if things were going well till then again, like
you said, children come in, there's a transition relationship the process. Um,
he you know, he cheated. I don't know if I
need a divorce. What do you think when you start
asking other people what they think about what you should
do right now, you're allowing people to decide what your

(59:00):
life is going to She knows what she feels, you
know what I'm saying. She knows what she feels, do
what you feel. It sounds like she's she's looking for
permission for whatever that is, and the only person that
can give her that permission is because she has to
live with whatever that decision is. Absolutely, I always say
you can sleep with yourself at night, regardless of what
it is. Go for it, all right. So I'll read

(59:22):
the second question. A longtime fan and recent listener to
your podcast. I am going through a rough breakup with
the person I've been with for five years. We were loving,
We were loving to one another, but things took a
bad term when we tried to make it work in
the last few months but couldn't make it work. We
are friends now and giving each other space. We kind
of still want to be win each other back, but
we just don't want to mess things up. What is

(59:43):
the best solution for the situation I am in with her?
Should I cut off all contact with her permanently or
just wait it out and work on getting back to
me in that break though period. To the young man
who wrote this, because we don't get a lot of
guys who right in, but they're in that break period,

(01:00:03):
he talked about the break before break up before they
get back. Yeah, the prelude, the prelude to the break
up break. That's what this is. This is what I
think they want a break right now. And he's still
thinking about her enough to listen to dead as podcast
and write in. That means he misses hers and he
probably wants a relationship, So I would say work towards it. Yeah,

(01:00:24):
if you care this much to write in and try
to seek advice that means that's something in your heart
is saying this person matters to work towards it. Yeah, well,
what about what he said Melissa where he says that
he just doesn't want to mess things up. Do you
feel like maybe they'd be better off as friends or
how what are you getting from that when he talks
about like wanting to be together but not wanting to

(01:00:45):
mess things up because they're good now that they're a break, well,
it sounds to me that that he cares about her
no matter what. Rather it's you know, they're together or
they're not together, and that she is someone who brings
value to his life and that he wants her to
be a part of his life, either it's in a
relationship or as friends. And one thing that we talked
about earlier is that friendship is so important. So if

(01:01:05):
there is value in their friendship and that friendship can
be the foundation of something more than, then go for
it if that's where your heart is. Good great advice today, man,
for sure, And I mean we try to parde ourselves
on giving our you know, we had reinforcements today with
miss Melissa. Thank you And if you want to be

(01:01:28):
featured as one of our listener letters. Email us at
dead ass Advice at gmail dot com. And before we
let you go, Melissa, we're at the very end, we're
winding down. Um. We normally do a moment of truth
at the end of every episode. So after unpacking so
many things today and learning so many things from you
as well, we normally like to just kind of recap

(01:01:48):
and like a sentence or to what your takeaway was. So,
what's your moment of truth? Pay easy, I wrote it down.
If your partners truth, yes, I always take notes. If
your partner's truth is in line with your piece, you
found a solution, Melissa Thomas, I I do, excuse me,
I believe that to be the moment of truth. Man,

(01:02:08):
let everybody your relationship as a whole. Quote, you learned
something from me back in college days. Yea, So now
he's the one, Yeah, exactly wanted to sit next to
me and whatnot. I'll give you. I'll give you a
little credit. But no, that's a that's a great that's
a great one, which is funny because it kind of

(01:02:30):
spirals into what I was gonna say, and it was
just like my thing was like, nobody knows you more
than you. Nobody was your partner more than you do.
For the most part, we would hope so outside noise,
other opinions from just random people who may not even
be invested. If you were to do that, speak to
a therapist. I personally haven't been to a therapist yet.

(01:02:52):
De Val has been just a pet therapist for himself
because like your was it your site or your book
you you help you, that's my site. That's just that
you help you. So sometimes it requires you to do
the internal absolutely check in first to make sure that
you're good, and then being that person being able to
offer that to someone else. UM. So I think that's
very important. Um Any parting words or moment of truth

(01:03:15):
that you want to leave our listeners with, yes, I
would encourage you all to uh to live your truth,
whatever that is, whatever it is that you want for yourself.
It's your relationship, your rules. You get to decide what
that looks like. And I think there's so much beauty
in that, and there's so much power in that knowing
that you can say yes to this or no to that,
and to always keep the communication lines open between whoever

(01:03:37):
it is that you're dating or inter marriage with, because
that's so important. You know, we always feel we we resent,
you know, we resentment starts to build when we take
away the choice from somebody else. So leave your spouse
or your significant other with the choice, and you communicate
your choice with that person as well. So keep the
lines of communication open always. Can you tell us where
to find you? Tell everyone they can find. Absolutely so.

(01:04:01):
My private practice is you help you, and that is
the letter you, the word help and then the word
y O you and um that can be. That's my
website and it can also be found on all social
media outlets. My um my i G is glad Tidings
by Mail, which means sharing the good news, and that's
where I just share daily tips about how to take

(01:04:22):
better care of yourself. I'm a huge advocate of self care.
You can also find my book called The Love Challenge,
Thirty Days thirty Ways to increase the love in your relationship.
It's available on Barnes and Nobles and Amazon, and I
brought a copy for you to today. Happy anniversary. Absolutely so.
You can find me on all social media outlets I G, Twitter,

(01:04:42):
um and Facebook as well. Thank you so much for
having me, guys, it was a pleasure to be here.
Thank you so much. We have to get that business card.
Thank you for joining us today. We're really absolutely and
I think that there will be a lot of takeaways
from this. Absolutely. I'm anxious to hear what the listeners
have to say about today this episode, particularly because we
get so many questions about it. So thank you so much.

(01:05:04):
Be sure to follow us on social media. Um I'm Cadet,
I am and that's I am devout and subscribe to
dead Ass on Stitcher, Spotify or Apple podcast And if
you're listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to rate and
review and tell a friends subscribe dead As dead Ass
is a production of Stitcher. We are produced by Jackie

(01:05:27):
Soljico and Dinor Opinion. Our executive producer t Square. Our
associate producers are Triple and Kristin Torres. Our Chief content
Officer is Chris Bannon, our studio engineer and original music
is by Brendan Burns and last but not least, we
are mixed by Andy Kristen's Well Back, I'm Drew McCarry

(01:05:50):
and I'm David Roth. We have a podcast going on
right now as part of the Stitching network called Substraction
that's available everywhere. Get a podcast at Stitcher, Spotify, Apple Go.
Listen right now to the distraction, right now, it's out.
Do it, please, M