Is She Masculine? Or Is He Insecure?

All the women who independent throw your hands up at me! But not too hard or else your independence may be mistaken for masculinity. Where do we draw the line? In this episode, Khadeen and Devale talk about the difference between masculinity and insecurity. Dead ass! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, y'all, it's and guess what, we wrote a whole
ass book. That's right, y'all. Our book, We Over Me,
The Counterintuitive Approach to Getting Everything you Want from your Relationship,
discusses family, parenting, devours favorite topic, sex and intimacy, finances
and commitment with the honesty and raw truth y'all have
always gotten from us. We over Me, The Counterintuitive Approach

(00:27):
to Getting Everything you Want from your Relationship, is available
for preorder today. That's right, run don't walk to www
dot p r h dot com slash we over Me
to pre order your book today. I honestly think women

(00:51):
have changed since the fifties, but more importantly, men have
changed as well. M. And for me, I think it
is giving. The level of respect that a woman has
for a man when it comes to earning is really
just dependent on the respect she has for him in general. M.

(01:16):
Dead as dead ass baby. Hey, I'm Cadine and we're
the Ellises. You may know us from posting funny videos
with our boys and reading each other publicly as a
form of therapy. Wait, I'll make you need therapy most days. Wow.
And one more important thing to mention, we're married. We

(01:37):
are We created this podcast to open dialogue about some
of life's most taboo topics, things most folks don't want
to talk about through the lens of a millennial married couple.
Dead ass is the term that we say every day.
So when we say dead ass, we're actually saying facts,
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Were about to take pillows off to a whole new level.

(02:01):
Dead at starts right now. I'm gonna take you guys
back to two thousand and nine. I believe you're really
good with years because I don't be remembering years. Yes,
I remember the years. I remember everything, remember everything. Um,
two thousand nine, we just decided that we were going

(02:24):
to move forward with getting married, and I had officially
retired from the NFL. I was done. So this was
the end of two thousand nine. This was at the
end of the season when um, oh, it's a matter
of fact, it wasn't two thousand nine. It was two
thousand and ten because two thousand nine I spent the
off season with the Cleveland Browns. Two thousand ten is

(02:45):
when I put in my paperwork to officially retire, and
that's when I got my servants paid. That's how the years,
and we moved back. We moved back to two thousand nine,
but two thousand ten was the first year, and that
was the year going into our wedding. So this is
two thousand and ten. This is a down February two
thous and ten, um I had officially retired from the

(03:06):
NFL and Codeine. I believe I told parts of this
story before. Coneine was back home and she had woke
up one morning and she was crying, and I was like, yo, like,
what's what's the matter. And she was like, I don't
know what's going on with my life, Like I'm just here,
I'm just existing, like I'm just in the bed, I

(03:27):
have my master's degree. I don't know what's happening next.
And I was like, well, we're getting married, and she
was like, well, I know that, but I just don't
know what's happening with me next. And I literally said
to her, how about you get up off your ass
and do something about it, And we're gonna do a
whole another podcast about that about that, yes, the tough love,

(03:51):
but also how well we're gonna do a whole another
podcast on that communication stuff. But I said, why don't
you get up off your ass and do something about it.
And she said, what you mean. I said, you're sitting
here crying in the bed when you have twenty four
hours today to find a way to get going towards
your dream. I said, what do you want to do?
And you said to me, you said, I don't know
what to do. I don't know how to get into TV.

(04:13):
I know I can do makeup because I was doing
makeup at MAC when we were in Michigan. So I said,
why don't you go to a Max store in Brooklyn
and just tell them you want to be an artist?
And she said okay. So we got up that day,
the both of us got up that day before any kids.
This is before our wedding, and we drove to King's Plaza. No,

(04:36):
we didn't drive to Kingslas. No. Remember, I took my
engagement ring off, put it in the drewry box, and
I got into forty four. I walked up to no Strength.
You drove me to my interview, And yes, I did
drive it to the interview monitue, Yes, said I drove
it to the inter of your money. Yes, she took
off for an engagement ring. She went and down to
be four of Us and went to kings Plaza. Went

(04:56):
to kings Plaza, walked in there, tell him she wanted
to be an artist, and then she applied to be
a part time makeup artist. At the time, I was
starting Elite Prototype Athletics and I didn't have any income
coming in other than working at Polly Prep as an
assistant football coach. And I was making don't laugh, two

(05:18):
thousand dollars for the season, living in New York with
two investment properties, three car notes, paying for a wedding,
our rent for the apartment, and all I had made
was two thousand dollars for the entire football season. And
I was trying to figure out how I was going
to get through the next couple of years of my life.

(05:40):
And I knew that Elite Prototype Athletics was the beginning.
I and D E P E N D E and
D Do you know what that means? It is but
every time that song comes on, I always go at
that part it so it totally works. If no DJ
out there has mixed the two songs, credit us with that,

(06:03):
because that really because that was a good one. That
was a good one. But we're talking about independent. What
does that mean? What does masculinity look like in a
woman per se in a man? Is she masculine or
is he insecure? That's what we're kind of unraveling today
in this episode. So when when men tell a woman
that she's too masculine, what exactly does he really mean?

(06:25):
And it'll be interesting to hear your perspective on that,
and I'll tell you what that means for me too. Well,
of course you won't have to pay some bills for us,
because neither one of us are independent. Right now, let's
me make some money. That's the whole fact. We're gonna
pay some bills back to yall with why I told
that story, why that song was sung? New Year, New topics?

(06:51):
All right, baby, So taking us back to story time, UM,
you can impact for us a little bit why you
share that story and what it has to do with
today's topic. So the reason why I share, the reason
why I shared that topic was because there was a
moment in my life where I technically was not the breadwinner. Now,
the reason why I say technically because I still paid

(07:13):
all of the bills. I had a reserve. Um, I
was still paying for our wedding. UM. I was still
making sure that everything was covered for our investment properties.
I had bought one of my anto car. I was
paying that cardinal, I was paying Codeine's cardinal. I was
paying my car note, and I was helping a lot
of people. And I had money in reserve from playing ball.
But I was broke. I wasn't poor. And the reason
why I say I was broke is because we were

(07:34):
living quote unquote paycheck to paycheck. And I picked up
some odd jobs here working at a substitute teacher, doing
certain things, but I wasn't bringing in consistent amount of money.
Codeine went back to work and she started as a
part time makeup artist, and she was making consistent amount
of money. But the most important thing was she ended
up getting health insurance. And I didn't have health insurance.

(07:57):
But they don't tell you about the nfl IS. Once
you don't make the mandatory minimum games of three years
and three games, you do not get health insurance when
you are cut from a team. And I got cut
from a team, so I didn't have health insurance, which
means Codeine didn't have health weren't you shy like one
game or something like crazy like that? I was shot
three games and I played three years, and I didn't

(08:17):
play the remaining three games to get my fourth year
so I could be vested veteran. When you're invested veteran,
you get the health insurance. And I didn't get the
vested veterans, so I don't get the health insurance or
the pension. Technicality, yes, and it's part of the business.
It is what it is. It's fucked up, but that's
the way the business works. But um, the reason why
I told the story was because technically I wasn't the breadwinner.
Codeine was making money every two weeks and our health

(08:41):
insurance was in her name. We were getting married that
with that July, so we figured, shoot, the minute she
gets married and I'm her husband and she has health insurance,
we both have health insurance. So at that moment, Codeine's
working was the most important part of our resources coming in.
Even though I was paying all the bills. She was
tech thinkly the breadwinner. She was making most of the

(09:01):
revenue coming in, and for me as a man, it
was like, all right, I'm not gonna ask her to
pay rent or split it half. I want her to
keep that in her reserve so that if I need it,
I could say hey, babe, And there were times I
was just like, babe, how much money do you have
in your account? Because I would be doing, you know,
doing my math. This is why can I said, you
always remember that the dates. I'm good with numbers, I

(09:22):
remember the math. And I was just like, all right,
as long as I continue to make these many days
with substitute tunique teaching. Shout out to my aunt Monique. Mom.
Monique got me a substitute teacher job in Nashwreth Regional
High School program getting it was like five six in
the morn to teach Jim for summer school. My brother
Brian got me a job at Eagle Academy while I

(09:43):
was also a substitute teacher there as well in a
part time dean so I had. I was keeping a
bunch of different jobs, but it wasn't what a man
would consider to be making money, even though I was
able to pay all the bills and we were living
paycheck to paycheck um for all the new listeners. The
reason why it was because the economic crash upen in
two thousand and eight and I got cut initially from

(10:03):
the Lions in two thousand and eight, and they spent
the entire season not playing. Then we moved back to Brooklyn.
I got signed by the Cleveland Browns, but you don't
make any money during the off season, and they end
up getting cut before the season started. So the majority
of our money had gone into investments, which were the
two properties we bought, and the stock market. The stock
market had crashed in two thousand and eight and we

(10:24):
had lost roughly thirty five percent of everything that we
had saved. That was a hot mess. And I think
it's important that you say that and you explain that
because I think when people, for example, new listeners, people
who know our story kind of have an idea, but
for newer listeners or people who are just joining us,
they don't understand, like, oh, shoot, he played in the NFL,
he should have had money, because the expectation is that
regardless of how long you've played, or where you've played,

(10:47):
what position you've played, what team you've played for, whether
you're undrafted or free agent or drafted, that NFL players
have made a substantial amount of money where they show, Okay, yeah,
but that's not the case. It's not Sam. He gonna
uncle Sam too. And and this is important for people
to know about uncle Sam as a rookie in two
thousand and six, the base was two hundred seventy five k.
People think you're going in the film and you automatically

(11:09):
make ten million dollars. So I make two hundred seventy
five thousand. You make that two hundred seventy five thousand
in four months, which is a large amount of money.
It's a large amount of checks. But you also get
taxed at fifty percent, so that to seventy five immediately
goes down to about a hundred and thirty seven thousand,
hundred thirty seven thousand dollars. And of that money, I

(11:29):
gotta pay my agent, plus I gotta live, So I
have a hundred thirty seven thousand dollars. I gotta pay
my agent. I have to pay. You know, I've already
paid taxes, I bought property. So you don't walk away
with millions the minute you play in the NFL. Yeah.
So the reason why I wanted to tell that story
was because there were moments during that time where I

(11:51):
felt like I wasn't the man, you know, I felt
like I wasn't holding up my end of the bargain
because my wife had to go to work. You know
um one thing I always wanted to pride myself on,
even as a young man growing up, because I grew
up with both my parents and both my parents having
to work and me having to take on a lot
of the parental role with my brother and sister because

(12:14):
my parents were at work. I always said to myself,
I don't want my wife to have to work. I
don't want to have my children picking up my other
children from work, I mean from school and then walking
home because I'm at work and my wife's at work.
So when I made it to the NFL, it was like, Wow,
I have an opportunity to keep my keep. My wife
kept although she wants to keep making money. And I

(12:36):
wrote a post that said, the greatest thing about having
a wife, UM that works hard is when she's kept
but she keeps making money. I wanted it to be
a choice, and I felt like in that moment, I
took your choice away and you had to go work,
so I felt like less of a man. But the
reason why I wanted to tell a story was not
only that part. It was because even though you went
to work, you never made me feel like I was

(13:00):
less of a man. So what it did was it
helped me through that process. You understand what I'm saying.
There's so many times we hear of of women beating
down men with their words. For example, I play Zach,
a character or on the show Sisters, and my first
girlfriend was was named Karen. Zach dealt with recidivism. He
was in and out of prison, and he couldn't keep

(13:20):
a job. And every time he tried to give Karen
whatever little mint of money he had, she always made
it sure to let him know that this is not enough,
and she made him feel like less of a man.
I can say right now that I married a black
woman who never made me feel like less of a man,
and I feel like that part of that was what
made me get through that would helped me get through

(13:42):
that point in my life, but also makes me want
to ask you, why why were you so confident in
me during those times? I mean, I've made it to
the NFL, I had lost money in the stock market.
We had to move from our our dream you know,
twenties home when we and the was four bedrooms, five bathrooms,
living room, dining room, back to my grandmother's apartment and

(14:05):
Crown Heights. Your car got broken into the first night
that we stayed there. That was just me not having
no kind of awareness, Like I just wasn't reading I
wasn't reading the room in that moment. I was reading
the streets in that moment, because it's like, girl, like
I grew up in the private houses where we pulled
it our driveway and it's just like, well, shoot, you know,
I'm used to leaving stuff in my car and my driveway. However, baby,

(14:27):
it was not the case over and grinds back in
two thousands, um. But so to answer your question or
to even just to chime in on something that you
said that you felt like in that moment you felt
so almost emasculated because you felt like, man, I have
like my wife has to go to work. I think
the overarching topic for me here is the fact that

(14:47):
I felt like I always had the choice or the
option to be a provider in this relationship. Right, You've
always said to me, Kennine, I want to make sure
that you say, for example, when we have our children,
you may or may not be able to go back
to work for health reasons, right, or you may not
want to go back to work because together we've decided
that we wanted to make sure that there was a

(15:09):
parent present with our children for the most part of
their lives, right that someone was doing the pickups and
the drop off from school, and you know, just being
there and being present. So I never at any point
felt like, Man, I'm doing this because Devol is just
forcing me to do this. Per se, I felt like
we have a partnership. I've always respected you as a partner,

(15:31):
and you've never you've never gone back on your word.
When I look at everything that you've done over the
course of your life, from when I came in and
was introduced to you, like at eighteen years old, seeing
you pretty much walk onto Hofstra earn your scholarship, then
it's like, shoot, you weren't drafted into the NFL, but
then you were a free agent who made your way

(15:51):
onto a teacher. Anything that was thrown your way that
may have caused some sort of setback in our life
was never anything under your control. It was usually something
out of your control. So for the NFL, for example,
the reason why you ended up retiring was because you
felt like these people around me, these higher ups you know,
in the office, look at me as a piece to

(16:14):
their chess game. And if I don't fit within their
their play at that time, then I'm disposable. So anything
that ever happened that was a setback for us was
never because of a lack of effort from you, lack
of ability, lack of potential. It was just the circumstance
that you might have been dealt with and you're dealing
with in that moment. So I felt comfortable enough to
pick up and say, you know what, I know, Deval's

(16:35):
got my back either way. This is a partnership. We're
doing this together. I've never been dependent solely on you
to be the breadwinner or to take care of me.
It was always if you were If I take care
of you, you can take care of us. So I
have a serious question, were there any was there any
moment where you felt like, remember we spent three years

(16:55):
in the NFL where you didn't you you could have
slept all day and you'd have been Finn Yeah, spoiled
you with gifts and whole bunch of things. When that
had ended abruptly, was there any any doubt in your
mind like, Okay, the ride is over, you know, like
now it's time to for reality. We're never going to
get back to you but actually hit me like a
ton of bricks. I'll be completely honest. I was just like,

(17:16):
wait a second, we're a second, so this is what
we gotta do do now? Um, And when I look
back on it now, I really think about in that
moment when you decided to retire, it was twofold. For me.
One part was like, oh, ship, this is over. And
it was difficult, particularly because now we were existing in
these spaces of friends, for example, who were still in

(17:37):
the league, and you know, it was sometimes hard to
watch that damn like they're able to do this easily,
that easily, and here we are like really just living
paycheck to pay check, struggling to make ends, still trying
to help people in our family, because while you were
in the NFL it was easy to help. But then
once that disappeared, the people disappeared, the support disappeared, and

(17:57):
then it was you and I in that apartment, you
know at that point, planning a wedding and then pregnant.
Those are the tough times when you have that loneliness
where nobody else is around to celebrate you in support,
but we have each other. So in those moments, I
was like, damn, you know, not only was it an
awakening that now we're going to have to really like
start to rebuild, especially after losing all that money in
the stock market and stuff, but I also feel like

(18:19):
you never had a chance to really play your full potential.
So that was another reason why I was like, damn,
you're really going to retire and just quit. So a
part of me felt like, damn, are you just really
quitting at this point? Because I didn't seem like you.
You were always someone who had a point to prove.
So I felt like one of the things that work
out in the NFL and and Canada was on the
table and you could have potentially played ball in Canada.
I was prepared to be a whole Canadian baby. I

(18:39):
was about to say one year maternity leave. How did
you say? Are you gonna go to work? As Canada
they do. I do remember a moment when I told
you I was retiring from football and he was like
white right. It just was ridiculous to me. You're like

(18:59):
like really, And I remember to look on your face
was just like like you said you thought I was quitting,
And those moments I did. I didn't feel emasculated. I
felt disappointed in you. But also disappointed in myself. I
felt disappointed in myself because I also had asked myself,

(19:21):
am I quitting because they won't let me play when
I want to play? Or do I really want to
do something else? And that's that's the confusion, you know,
when when a lot of people don't realize when you
when you decided to go into entrepreneurship, a lot of
times it's am I quitting this job because the job
won't let me do what I want to do? Or
do I really want to be my own boss? And

(19:43):
you go through that mindset. It's like, am I acquitting
if I quit my job and try do entrepreneurship? Or
am I brave for taking the leap of faith and
banking on myself? That's what I felt in the moment.
And I was disappointed in you because up until that
point we had always been super supportive of each other, right,
and then when you questioned me, I was like, does

(20:03):
she not believe in me? Yeah? But you never emasculated me,
you know, like you never made me feel like, well,
now that I gotta go to work, I'm going to
be the man. I'm going to take the rein Because
remember when you were going to work. I was. We
had gotten married, and Codeine had worked for Mac for

(20:24):
I think two and a half years, and I was
building the business for about two and a half years.
But you know what you did that was also very
integral in that time, which made me feel like I
could never emasculate this man. When I came home from work,
if I needed a foot rub, if I needed a BackRub,
if I needed a bathrand like you made it a
point to make sure that when I came home that

(20:44):
I was in a space of comfort. And I think
any person, man or woman should feel that, you know,
if you at home, like you know, one person at
home and the other is not. It made me just
feel like wow, Like my man may not be out
there in the workforce in this moment, but he's building something.
He's taking care of our son, and when I come home,
I feel like I'm in my space of peace where

(21:04):
he's taking care of me. And that in itself, as
a woman, is enough to make me feel like, wow,
you know, he really really cares, even though in this
moment the odds may be stacked against him because he's
approaching something new, But I could see that there was
a passion in your eye for elite prototype and you're
gonna build that. Do you know how hard that is
for women to have a man say listen, I'm an entrepreneur.

(21:26):
I'm leaving this job. I want to build something else.
You go out and work, and I got you. I
hear horror stories, absolutely, and we know people personally who
husbands have been building careers for a long time and
it never got nowhere. You know, the babe. To be honest,
I am my grandfather and my father, I am the

(21:50):
third iteration of them, Charles and Troy. Yes, Charles, Charles
and Troy, and my brother is the fourth in very
true hard working man's. It was worked hard. And I
remember being a stay at home dad and watching Stephen A.
Smith at times and me and Jackson sitting there and
I would put Jackson in his car seat because that's
what we like to do and un rock him. But

(22:10):
I'd seriously be at home, not just watching TV. I'd
be thinking and designing ways for us to not be
in that situation. And to be honest, that's what kept
me from feeling depressed was having a vision and a purpose,
you know, because sometimes you get depressed because I have

(22:32):
also gone through depression, and I wouldn't say a clinically
depressed person, but I'm going through those moments of depression.
I just don't know what's next. That's a human thing.
I don't know how to get there, get through next,
but get to what the next chapter is. But I
never felt like I was less of a man. And
I never felt like I was with a woman who
was more masculine because at the time she was working

(22:54):
and she was and I wasn't. So did you not
feel less of a man because I didn't make you
feel that way? Or is it because you just always knew,
like I have a plan, it's gonna work because I'm
gonna work for it, so there's no reason for me
to all honesty, I felt like less of a man
at times when I was at home and I knew
you were at work and I was watching the baby,

(23:14):
and you know the fact that you had to get
up and go to like go out to work, and
I was watching Jackson. I felt like less of a man.
What helped me get through that was you not making
me feel like less of a man, even though I
came home and rubbed your feet and did all those
things you still came home and when didn't needed to
be made, you made dinner. You know what I'm saying.
When I actually can I get the sandwich, you still
you know what I'm saying. You still made like you

(23:35):
never said all days, so you make your sandwiches. It
was never in my face. It was it was never
thrown in my face. And you and I have never
I can't say never because it was appointment where we
did both subscribe to gender roles like traditional, but in
those moments where we needed each other, we always knew

(23:56):
what the other one needed, so we didn't subscribe to
those gender roles to a point where it was so toxic.
You know, we we were of service to each other,
we weren't of service to our genders. And that's that's
a good one. Um. I think in those moments, being
of service to you and not being of service to
my gender is what made me not feel emasculated because

(24:17):
I wasn't concerned about my manhood. I was concerned about
my wife. But think about how much you and I
are examples or products rather of the examples that we've seen.
For example, with me, right, I remember spending a lot
of time with my grandmother my mom's mom right um
coming home from school taken to be sick. She lived
right off a conplient at the time, so I would
get off make stops there, and she used to work

(24:38):
nights at a hospital. And even though she would work nights,
sometimes when I would pop in midday and she's taking
her nap, there's food on the stove. My grandfather would
be at work during the day, she would make sure
that dinner was made for him. She would set aside
his pirates dish to make sure he had his food,
and everybody else can eat after that. But she just
made sure regardless of what it was she was out

(24:59):
there working. He was out there working. Anyone who works
the night shift knows that that is a treacherous shift
to work. But she made sure that he was taken
care of right. And it wasn't a circumstance where he
didn't have a job in the moment where she didn't.
But I'm just saying that to say the example that
I had seen was always that regardless of you're working
or not, as a woman, you still want to make
sure that your man is taken care of. I'm glad

(25:21):
you said that, because there's historical context that people don't
talk about within the Black community that I think needs
to be addressed. You know, how we talk about how
the workforce has changed, and we're gonna get to some
stats in a minute, how the workforce has changed, and
the more women work, the more the dynamic and the
power dynamic between men and women have changed in this country.

(25:46):
Here's the truth. There has never been a point in
American history where the majority of black men were working
and Black women were staying at home moms. Black women
always stad to work, and this went back to right
after Reconstruction, when black colds happened, when the vagrancy happened,

(26:09):
and Black communities were starting to thrive. Black women were
always thrown into the workforce because that's how we built
our communities, right. They were always socio economically too. Incomes
and the black community were needed in order to make
the black household run. But that never changed. And this
is what my grandfather told me. That never changed, the

(26:30):
power dynamic or chivalry. My my grandfather said, I worked
and your grandmother worked. I never actually grandmother about her money.
I got my check, my I gave my check to
your grandmother. She gave me what I could use for
myself and she used the rest for the house. So
even though my grandfather was the breadwinner, he never said

(26:52):
I make the money, I do what I want, and
I gave you the rest. He gave it to my grandmother,
and my grandmother allocated all the funds and then gave
my grandfather this is what over. You can do what
you want to do with it. And my grandmother always
cooked for my grandfather even though she worked, So it
was never a thing where it was like, oh, the
woman cooks and clean because she doesn't work, and the
man is chivalrous and he's in charge because he makes

(27:14):
all the money. In the black household, both people always
worked and both people were always of service to each other.
So this idea that the power dynamic in the black
community has changed because women started working, it's false. That
was never the case. It might be the case for
prominent white communities or or white people who have come
through generational wealth, but in the if you look at

(27:35):
the show, that help was always but they were married
and their husband's work, And I feel like that historical
context has been uh dismissed and also missed in this
conversation we're having because we're often talking about our black
women becoming more masculine because they're making more money, as

(27:55):
if black women didn't always have to make money to
make the household. You know what it is for me,
it comes in elimination of team right, because that's ultimately
what For example, your grandparents were my grandparents. There was
a team effort, a team spirit, and even though things
are not the same as they were when our grandparents
were growing up and raising children, that team element, if

(28:17):
it's missing, if it's not like a you know, you
have it now. I never had to worry about finances
because it was a thing where if you didn't have
it at that moment, I did, and vice versa. So
when you eliminate that dynamic, and then you start to
pit each other against each other and it's just like man,
like you ain't doing this, you ain't doing that. Or
there's the independent woman movement where it's just like I
don't need no man for nothing. Then you have the

(28:39):
other women that are just like man, I'm about to
have three or four or five kids, um and and
and take homeboy for a child support or like you know,
there's so many different narratives now that are being and
I'm just like, first of all, who the hell raised y'all?
The second of all, we're wondering why there's so much,
so much strife within the black families and the black
communities now, and it's because I think the team elements

(29:02):
and that mutual respect for each other and what they
bring to the table. It's a lot of harping on
weaknesses and not strengths in this moment. It becomes a
for me at least now, it's a who's better equipped
in this moment to deal with something. So it may
require that hey, KKM, mate didn't tonight, But you know what, Devot,
he's gonna get on the grill and he's gonna make
sure everybody you know or shoot. You know, we're down

(29:23):
to the last pair of draws around the household here.
Devlot might have to throw a load in with Jackson,
you know, because that has to be done. Ship the
car is about to be on, Ekadin, go get some
gas in the car. You know. It becomes and that's
when it goes back to team. It goes back to
team and how we better going to thrive and reach
these goals together? All right, let's jump into some facts
and staffs that Trivil has compiled for us, which are

(29:44):
kind of really interesting. When we looked at them, we
were like, let's unpack some of this now. Masculinity is
seen to be the trait that emphasized, which emphasizes ambition,
acquisition of wealth, and differentiation of gender roles. Femininity is
considered to be caring and nurturing behaviors, creativity, sexuality, and
more fluid gender roles. In short, masculinity is more of

(30:08):
a fixed, rigid perspective while femininity is more flexible. I
would have to say that that's still the same. And
this is what trips me out about today's kids. Right.
Women will say that they want men to be men
rigid when it's convenient for them. If we're going out
on the date, pay for my then pull out my chick.

(30:29):
Be a gentleman. If someone comes in here to fight me,
you gotta fight them, right. But then at the same time,
it's just like they want to be able to be fluid,
right as far as a woman should be able to
earn when they want to earn, take care of yourselves
when they want to refuse, to refuse chivalry if they
don't want chivalry. But it's always on a man to
be rigid because men have to be men and and

(30:51):
to me, I think that's where the problem starts. Right,
if fluidity is going to happen, if it should be
fluidity through both genders, right, you have to allow a
man to be able to show his and inside, be
more vulnerable, be able to speak his feelings and say
what he wants. But that's not accepted for men. And
I think that we don't discuss that enough. We're always
getting on men about being toxic, but don't realize that

(31:11):
we still have a rigid idea of what masculinity looks like.
So I think that we need to address that first
before we move on and say, how are we going
to address each other? You know, why is it so rigid?
Why does masculinity have to be so rigid while femininely
gets to bounce from? And I mean it's a difficult
space to be into, particularly thinking if you're dating, right,
you're meeting someone for the first time. You don't necessarily

(31:33):
come to the table knowing what people's perspective is on
what these roles look like, right, quote unquote roles. For example,
this wasn't even somebody that you were dating, but you
were out. Remember you told the story one time about
opening the door for someone, and she was so offended
by the fact that you opened the door for She
literally said to me, I don't have time for your
microaggressions right now. Now. The funny thing is I was

(31:53):
opening the door for everyone because I was the first
to the to the door, so I was going to
open the door and hold it for everyone to go.
She was right behind me, so when I opened the door,
I guess she got offended because she felt like I
was saying that I'm opening the door because I'm a
man and you need the door held open for you.
This is what she explained to me after, and I said, well,

(32:13):
I'm just holding the door for everyone who's behind me
because I'm being polite exactly what I'm saying. But but
these these are the things that when you you try
to be of service to your gender as opposed to
being of service to the person you're with. The getting
away absolutely absolutely. I just took the boys to the
movies the other day. All three of us went to
the movies while you were gone, and I got to

(32:34):
the movie theater door and I just stood there and
they all looked at me for a second because we
hadn't been out a date in a minute, because you know,
last year was crazy. But I looked around Jackson, yeah exactly,
and then he was like oh, and he grabbed the door,
and then Cayro grabbed the second because it was two doors.
But that's something that we're going to continue to teach
our sons. I don't think it's something that you know
it's dead at this point now, because we're still going

(32:56):
to be continued. We're raising four men, like we want
to make sure that they know what she is. Absolutely,
and I think it's a choice, like like, unless your
masculinity harm someone, then your masculinity is not toxic. If
my masculinity to means means I'm going to be a
gentleman and I'm going to be chivalrous to whichever woman.

(33:16):
If it's my wife, my mom, my sister, my friend,
my my friend's friend, that's the masculinity I choose, as
long as it's not harming someone. What I'm tired of
is masculinity being attacked for being toxic when you're really
just trying to be a man, and then when you're
not a man. For example, when a man goes on

(33:36):
a date and looks and says are we split? And
then the woman says, oh, I thought you was going
to be a man. It's like, wait a minute, when
is my masculinity not toxic? Is it only when you
don't want it? Or like you know, that's what I'm
getting tired of, Like I'm I'm I'm over that. Listen.
I for one, I'm very comfortable. And I don't know
if it's something that you've empowered me to do or be,

(33:57):
or if it's something that I've always had in me.
But I am very comfortable and secure and falling into
my femininity and letting you be the man because I
don't want to be the man. I don't want to
be the man. I don't want to be rigid. I
want to like I have ebbs and flows, you know
what I'm saying, as a human and not and and
as a woman, And I want to choose sometimes when

(34:17):
and if I want to employ you know that more
more to quote masculine side or feminine side? Right? Where
is it required in what circumstance and what arena? That's
a that's a good question. So it becomes a thing
where do I need to be more assertive in a
workspace environment, for example. But then when I come home,
I know, like, okay, I could just fall into this
femininity because my man is here to be that for me.

(34:41):
I enjoy that, like that's something that I crave. And
when you're not around because you say, baby working or something,
and I have to take on the role of, like
you know, being the leader in the household, sometimes that's overwhelmed.
I'm like, ship I don't want to do is come
home so I can just go back to being me.
I'm glad you said that out loud because I was
having a debate with who are my male friends who
are dating and they're not they're not married, and it

(35:04):
was just like, yeah, I'm tired of the whole boss
bitch movement. And I was just like, what you mean,
And it was like the whole boss bitch movement, Like
all these these bitches talking I'm a boss and my
boss and my boss like they don't listen. And I
was just like, well, part of that is because you
probably don't make her feel comfortable being vulnerable in your presence.

(35:24):
She's still trying to be a boss in your presence
because and I tell them all the time, I said,
my wife has employees. I don't want to say employees,
but she has people that she works with. UM, we
call them teammates because we all in this, in this
group that we have here, we don't employ anybody. We
all partners. But she's a boss when it comes to that.
When she needs things to get done, she gets it done.

(35:45):
When she wants things done in the time. If it
requires her to be rigid and to get a little
bit loud or to assert her authority, she doesn't mind
doing that. But she feels comfortable knowing that she doesn't
have to do that at home. So it's like I
had to explain to them, like, don't don't get upset
when you watch a woman display her quote unquote masculinity

(36:06):
in the workplace and feel like I can never deal
with that. If you make her feel comfortable at home,
she doesn't have to do that at home. Is a fact,
and I think that's the point that a lot of
men in this situation are missing. And I don't want to.
I don't want to because these points, these facts are
very important, but real quick pigback on that. It's like, sir,
what are you doing within your life or your professional

(36:29):
you know, career stamp. What are you doing and bringing
to the table that someone should value you as a
man and see you as a man. Are you like,
are you working? You know, do you have a work
because you were talking about but they both worked, they
both make over six figures, both doing all right, but
in their mind they've never they've never been married. So

(36:51):
in their minds, if they see a woman who makes
six figures or has a job of a high authority figure,
they're like, I could never deal with that because she
bring that home. And I was trying to explain to them, like,
just because a woman is like that at the workplace
doesn't mean that they're going to be like that at
home if you create an environment for them to feel

(37:12):
comfortable being from absolutely, and women have to be open
and receptive to saying, you know what, I can leave
that boss has at the door because when I get home,
I'm not bossing around my man because I don't need to,
nor do I want to. I'm okay with falling back
at home because that's the space that he's created for me.
And this this maybe misogynistic, but I honestly feel like

(37:40):
even the bosses of boss women at some point, I
want to just be taken care of, care of. And
that don't mean that they want all the bills paid.
That don't mean that they want all the But at
some point, it's like, give you the boss all the time,
because I'm the boss all the time. I'm the boss,
I run, I run all of our companies, I handle
all of our finances. Each should I come home, I'm
the boss. Even me as a man. Sometimes it's just

(38:02):
like I want to put my brain down and I
just want to be taken care of. I want my
wife to say, hey baby, you need this, Hey baby.
So I could imagine a woman, especially if she's had kids,
if she's got a lot going on, you know what
I'm saying, And sometimes you just want to lay back
and be like, my husband got it, you know what
I'm saying, And that maybe massages. I don't know what

(38:22):
this day and age, because seems like people get offended
by everything. But I honestly feel like most women, at
some point in the day it's ready for their husband
or the significant other to say take it, to take
the wheel. I feel comfortable with you take it. I
don't just tell me what you want me to do,
so I can relax my head from that, even if

(38:43):
they're the CEO of the largest fivendre fortunate fund company. Nope,
I got you, for sure. But let's let's get into
some of these staffs. We got some more here. So
in the nineties sixties, close to percent of men ages
to forty four we're working or looking for work. Since then,
there's been a steady decline. In October the number was

(39:03):
at eighty eight point five. Ye for sure. In nineteen
seventy nine, only nine, I'm sorry, only of women earned
more than the average man. Now of women earn more
than the average Many of us households have a female
breadwinner quadruple the number if the sixties. That's it's just

(39:31):
like whoa. But then also to that that that m
speaks to more opportunities, right, because initially you talked about
the help right, those were mostly domestic roles that when
we're taken on, there were nanny's, they were you know, cooked,
they were help um. But then there it was a
shift of women now entering the workforce in the corporate level,
so that naturally was going to spark an increase for sure,

(39:51):
according to a survey. Bumble, this is important commissioned with
you Gov. Se of adults surveyed agreed that when it
comes romantic relationships and dating, different behaviors are expected based
on your gender identity and are even accepted in dating.
So this is important right now, they said a surveying bumble,

(40:13):
I don't know who's on bumble. We don't know what
part of the population is app okay, and it's also
like a shampoo or something. What's crazy, I think bumbling
bumble is. What's crazy to me is that on these
dating apps, se of those people, which is the vast
majority of people, believe that each person should fall in

(40:36):
line with a gender specific identity, right, which means men
are required to do certain things and women are required
to do certain things which are traditional gender norms. Right.
So this is when we get into the conversation of
our men changing or are women changing, because we've talked
a lot about women changing over time, but we have

(40:59):
to also knowledge that men are changing as well. For example,
there are a lot more men right, probably not in
this who are saying, yo, shorty, if you invite me
out to go somewhere, you're gonna pay because you claim
to be AMA, you claim to be an independent woman.
You invited me out, How are you going to invite

(41:21):
me to a dinner of your choice and expect me
to pay? A lot more men are falling in line
with that belief, mainly because they're in the workforce and
then being like, wait a minute, she made more money
than me too, Why I gotta go to But I
gotta pay to go to Shade Shade. Josephine's with this state?

(41:42):
Who show? Come on y'all Josephine five four. But I
honestly feel like as the world has changed, women are
the only ones changing. Men have become a lot more
I don't want to say accepted. They have accepted more

(42:06):
qualities that were once expected of a woman. You know
what do you mean? Like household stuff or domestic stuff?
Just what I'm talking to my boys who are still
in the workforce, talking to my younger generation Generation Z,
the younger millennials, and a lot more of these dudes
is saying, Yo, they work too. They make mad bread

(42:27):
like they're making money. You invite me out, you're gonna pay.
You know what I'm saying. If you want me to
go somewhere, you can pay for maba. If we're gonna
move in together, you can pay half. In the past,
it was if we move in together, I got you.
You know what I'm saying, And a lot of them
are saying the reason why they're behaving that way is
because a lot of them get scolded for trying to

(42:48):
be chivalrous, a lot like I was scolded. And I
think it may be a younger generational thing. It might
be because I'm thinking about the women who I know
who are within maybe my age range take a couple years,
who would probably be highly offended if they were to say, hey,
let's go somewhere, let's do something, and then the guy

(43:09):
expect for them to pay generation you know. So it's like,
how are we now speaking to the younger generations, Like
like thinking about our boys, Like I'm trying to think
about what and how we're going to help them navigate
what it's going to look like to be on the
dating scene. Like I don't know what the next generation.

(43:29):
I mean, based on what we can see so far,
it's scary out there. I'm not even sure what to
say to them when it comes to dating well the
world when the world has changed, and I think it's
a little bit of insecurity on men, I do because
the world is changing. When you start to lose grip
of that power, right in that power where you can

(43:51):
make a woman do something, or you can expect a
woman to do something to be just because she's a woman, right,
it breeds in insecurity because that that typical thing that
you you do and it would get a certain response
is no longer there. You know, you flash a little
money to a chick and they become enamored, no longer
works anymore because chicks is getting money, you know what

(44:12):
I'm saying that that is definitely a fact. But there's
also two sides. If you meet a man who's getting money,
he may be interested in you, not because you're getting money.
So as a woman, if you're leading with I'm getting money,
I got degrees, I don't need no nigga, that's a
turn off. So yes, it is a little bit of
insecurity from men. But it is also a very masculine

(44:34):
thing for a woman to do, to lead with how
much money she makes and how many degrees she has,
because what if that man was not interested in in
that at all. That's very true, you know, and if
you think about the world back in the day, that's
what men's go to was, I can provide this for you.
But you see also too, I think the detriment in
always equating masculinity, femininity the money is that if you put,

(44:57):
for example, two people together in a relationship that are
both you know, a breadwinner pedigree, right, go getters. You know,
they're working hard, they're always working. They're the boss boss
man and boss woman, you know, But then what does
that look like in their relationship? Does it become a
competitive environment where it's like, okay, who's making more money?
When someone wants to be able to just sit back

(45:19):
and say, man, like I just need a breather, you know,
does the other person just take up or is it
going to be a constant debate because it's like, man, now,
if I want someone to just be there, to just
be my man or be my woman, but they're so
wrapped up in work, then it doesn't you know, they're
not gonna jel in that moment. Or if you have
two people who lack ambition and don't really have the
breadwinter mentality, then it's just like how does that even work? Too? Well,

(45:42):
here's the truth. No, one, you don't have to pick
one style, and that's what I think people need to realize, right, Like,
this isn't in everything, This isn't even just what men
and women. This is men dating men, women dating women.
Your idea of what gender roles look like and what
people look like in the workforce in relations, and that
own isn't real, right Like, there's no one's real play.

(46:06):
It's not. It's just not like you have to find
what works for you individually, and they have a person
you will. For example, you know how many men probably
could never deal with you in your mouth, you know,
and it's well, I mean this benefits to my mouth.
They could definitely would love to deal with your mouth.

(46:26):
They would definitely love to deal with your mother. But
you nasty. But no, what I'm saying is is that
there are certain men who are just like I don't
want a woman that talks back. I want a woman
that just says yes and do what I say, and
that's it. They don't want a woman that has a brain.
They want to like, there's certain men who that's in
their mind, that's what they want. They want someone that

(46:47):
they can control the same way there are certain women
who don't want to have to think and just want
to be controlled right, of those two people can work
well together. Right. There are also some men who are like,
I really enjoy of just being a dad and caring
for people and nurturing people. And my sole purpose in
life is not to conquer the world. My sole purpose

(47:09):
in life is to nurture the children that I bring
into the world. Right. And then you meet a woman
who was like, I want to conquer the world, but
I don't mind having kids. So she has the kids,
and she gives him the kids, and he nurtures and
take care of the home. Right. Other people will look
at them and be like, oh, he's so emasculated, that
nigga living in his purpose, and so was she. You
know what, You literally made me think of a couple

(47:31):
tab and Chance tab and shout out to Chance. The
chance look emasculated to you at at all? People have
so much to say when she says she retired her husband,
and yes you did, sit and congratulations to both of y'all.
It works for y'all. I don't even think about that. Literally,
when you said that, and you talked about a man working,

(47:51):
like wanting to be a stay at home dad and work,
and not that Chance does. But he wants to focus
on his family. He's probably taking care of tab, he's
um with their son's basketball team. He's doing the things
that makes him feel like, man, I have purpose. But
also too, they've been together for a very long time,
and when Tad was trying to you know, make it
work and trying to make into acted working as super driver,
he was doing a job that he didn't want to

(48:13):
do because he knew he had to write. So shout
out to them for staying the course and for people
who were in the comments making noise about her retiring
her husband. Eight business, that's their business. They focused now
very good, very good, very good, but also too well, Hey,
that's people minding your business for you. And then and
be that works for them and then three ABC three

(48:34):
whatever I forget I and D E P. I have
to practice that a couple of times. I'm like in
the car would glow really it sound good until you
have to say about yourself and carry a U session.
But I'm just so happy that they were able to
Now she can say, you know what, Hubby, You've done,
what you've been doing for so many years. I'm in
a position where you can now do the things that

(48:55):
you've wanted to do because I got it for now
and so many, so many, so much of what they
do is still joint. So you know, shout out to question. Actually,
Trouble has a question Trouble. But I'm gonna ask you,
do you believe that a woman because we're coming off
of speaking about taving chance and how there relationship and
it's not even just about finances, Like you can tell

(49:17):
that they love each other, yes, like you like, you
can tell you know when people like, but you can
also tell at what points in life who had to
take leads? Do you honestly believe that a woman's strength
diminishes a man's ability to lead? A woman's strength diminishes
a man's ability. For example, when I said there are

(49:37):
certain men who wouldn't be able to deal with your mouth.
The fact that you've got your master's degree, the fact
that you have ambition, the fact that you have your
own ideas and thoughts about the way you want to
do things. Do you think that that diminishes a man's ability.
I really, I really think it's a case by case
basis because, like I said, when it comes to you
and I, which is really all I can speak on,
I've never in any moment felt like the val was

(49:58):
just here sitting on his ass waiting for me to
do everything, and that he was trying to take advantage
of me or this situation because he did not want to.
There was always a drive, there was always ambition, There
was always that work, There was always that grit that
you had to want to do more so me being
strong finished, you said I had the ambition. Do you

(50:19):
think ambition is a masculine trait or it's just it's
just a trait that can be accepted by anyone Because
you said you believed in me because as a man,
I was ambitious. That spoke to my manhood. Do you
do you feel that or do you just feel like
ambition can just be gender fluid. I'm not thinking just
ambition could be gender fluid, but particularly in a man
woman relationship, right because we think it also about saying

(50:39):
sex couples, right, So who maybe taking the lead in
that moment. I think it's just an attractive thing for
a person or a human being to have some sort
of drive, some sort of ambition, some sort of purpose
when it comes to life, because when you then apply
that to something, it becomes potentially a moneymaker. Right, So
in that moment, you can be like, all right, baby,
if this is something that you really want to do,

(51:01):
I may be strong as a woman, but I'm okay
with you taking the lead in this moment. I'm okay
with that. So no, I don't think a woman's strength
should diminish a man's ability to lead. But I also
feel like a woman should empower or a partner should
empower the other to say, you know what, I know
that you've got this, and I'm gonna help support you
when you get there. I'm gonna keep it going. I

(51:21):
want to hear your perspective. Do you think men have
a responsibility to change their perspective as the world tilts
more towards flexible gender norms, So specifically, specifically men, men
have the responsibility to change as opposed to women changing
their ideas about Do you think men have more responsibility? Um?
I do think so. I feel like as time progresses,

(51:43):
as things change, as the requirements change within a household dynamic.
Now you may just have a couple who's married. You
may have a couple who have children, who have multiple children,
who have other you know, um strains in their their
day to day life. I think it definitely requires a
man to say, you know what I may have to
This is not something traditionally that I may have had

(52:04):
to do or I thought i'd have to do, but
it's required of me in this moment, in this time,
for the betterment of everyone, or the betterment of my
spouse or my partner. So I'm going to go ahead
and make this change. I think flexibility is necessary. And like,
for example, we exist in the patriarchy, right, men have
had the control for thousands of years, So of course

(52:27):
men are going to have to change their perspective as
gender norms change. Absolutely, here's my issue with that. I
don't mind changing, but what bothers me is only changing
when it's convenient for you. When does When does that
become problematic? When when a man is trying to change,
So you say I want to be treated as an equal,
so he's trying to treat you as equal. But then,

(52:48):
but but not that part like, no, you're still gonna
pay for everything. You're still gonna pay for the more
picking and choosing that you don't like. Yes, So so
here's another question. How are women navigating the fact that
they want men to change while still saying a man
needs to be a man. How can women navigate that
as well? Because we're constantly talking about how well, I mean,

(53:10):
we all put in the fault on women a lot
when we say, you know, the reason why relationships ain't
work because women is being too massive, Like we say
that all the time. Now we're saying men have the
responsibility to change. So I'm agreeing with you because we
exist in the patriarchy. In order for ideas to change,
in social norms to change, men are going to have
to be the ones to say, you know what, guys,
this is fucked up the way we throught all these years.

(53:32):
Let's change. But how are we going to navigate as
a team of men women to say, hey, ladies, we
do want the women to change, but we can't just
be flaky when we want the patriarchy to exist in
our faith, men are going to be receptive to changing,
then women to also, like you said, can't be wishy
washy about the change. That's fair. It's fair because you

(53:53):
cannot pick and choose in that moment. However, too, then
it's also being very generalized, right, so it depends on
the person generals that yeah, yeah, it can't be women
all men at this point. Wh people who listen to
podcast understand that we never speak in generalizations. But when
you say men and women, we are talking about men

(54:14):
and women absolutely, and we're speaking from our our experience
or what we've seen or what we've been privy too.
But no, you can't pick and choose when it's going
to be to your benefit or your detriment per se. Right,
But you know what alleviates that most of the time
is having conversation with the person that you're in the
relationship with and not necessarily listening to the social media
loud minority about what can or cannot be accepted within

(54:37):
a relationship number one mistake. And if you're new to
the podcast, also know that too. You cannot like we like.
We're on social media and this is how y'all contact
us and see us and has access to us. However,
it don't really be a real place. The real places
is here in this space between he and I, so
between you and your partner, whatever that looks like for y'all,
I gotta make sense. The dating space is a whole

(54:59):
another beast chap. Like I said, I'm happy I'm not
in that space because baby, I think we should take
a break now because we still have listening letters. But
I do appreciate hearing your perspective because I feel like
a lot of the onus has been put on women
for they say, the dismantling of the family unit, because
women have been crying for freedom, for acceptance, for inclusivity.

(55:23):
So all the things that you're crying for is the
reason why family is changing. And I do believe that
men have to hold a responsibility to help in that change,
the same way we constantly as white people to help
in the change of racism. We have to help change
the sexism and the way the patriarchy has oppressed women
for for a time. But we also have to say

(55:45):
women have a responsibility to not be flaky when it
comes to what changes you want. You understand what I'm saying,
especially in the dating space, because a lot of young
men and young women I speak to, I get confused
listening to them because they don't know what they want.
It depends on the day, right and and we'll get
to this to the moment of truth. Though. The main
point is when you figure out what's good for you,

(56:07):
all other ship you to learn in your life don't
even matter. I'll learn that ship for real. Keep what
you want to keep. So look, we're gonna take a
quick break. We're gonna get into these listening letters, and
we'll come back after some mats. Sounds good, So, guys,

(56:29):
we're back for the first listener letters of Let's dive in.
I'm no one going to say this is Case's favorite
topic one of the wine. Can see your favorite. I
knew that was gonna happen, and because it's mine, and
because I'm believing in the advancement of men and women
to go first, Well, go ahead, then, gentlemen. First, I
like that. I support you for me. Hey, you, guys,

(56:54):
I watched your Breakfast Club interview where you talked about
your decision devout to have a vasectomy. Damn, I didn't
talk about then on the Breakfast Club? Did I know?
I didn't. Did we did we mention that it was
a possibility. We didn't mention it was a possible. What happened? Yes,
it did. Four years ago, my husband told me that
he would get one because like cadeem, my body reacts
horribly to birth control. The morning of my schedule C section,

(57:17):
he decided to change his mind. As a result, I
went forward with getting my filopian two is removed. Wow.
Since having that surgery, my body has been through so
many negative impacts. I find myself hating my husband for
not caring or considering enough about me to keep his word.
The surgery has pushed me into pre menopause at thirty seven,
which affects my libido and body just as much as
the birth control. When I don't want to have sex,

(57:39):
he becomes frustrated. I have expressed my feelings in about that,
about what, why, how, et cetera, But I feel he
has chosen not to accept accountability. That's what it sounds
like to me. His response is always, you didn't have
to Well, okay, we're gonna get to that in a minute.
Where my response is, so what happens when I become
pregnant again? My body can't handle another high risk pregnancy,

(58:01):
which is what Cannina and I went through. So what
he responds? He could We could have crossed that bridge
when we reached it. I feel very disregarded, and I
know I still hold the grudge. If he would even
offer since there apology for letting me down, it would
help me heal. But he still doesn't see his wrong
married twelve years together fifteen. This is the only question

(58:24):
I have. Did she decide to have her velopians two
tied without him knowing, like going to get her schedule
to C section and say, hey, God, while you're in
there to take this out. If she did go and
do that without discussing it with him, that's not really
on him. But if she said while I'm in there,
I'm gonna go do it, and he said, go ahead
and do it because I'm not getting the first actor me,

(58:44):
that's fucked up. I seriously think that's funked up. And
I'm gonna tell you why that's fucked up, right. I
watched Day for the past twenty years. First start with
birth control, um several different kinds, several different kinds. And
we're gonna discuss on another episode. Why could had to
get on birth control is actually in the book on
Way Over Me. But I watched the deal with birth
control for twenty years. I watched her go through four

(59:08):
pregnancies full term. I watched the deal with uh lacerated servis,
almost had to get a blood transfusion, had to get
emergency surgery to home births one fast, rapid quick run
to the hospital birth and finally postpartum preclampsh. I watched
these things. I also watched her have issues with the

(59:30):
copper in the latest birth control that we tried. And
here is a fun fact that a lot of people
don't know. Kadina and I were actually going to try
for a fifth child. We were going to try for
a fifth and hopefully the girl. But the doctor said
that would be an extremely high risk because of the
postpartum preclaim sh and more than likely she would have
full preclam ship while pregnant, which will put her in

(59:52):
extremely high risk. And we decided together that that was
not going to happen. After the Copper had started giving
her issues because of birth control, I said, enough is enough.
I'm getting a vasect. To me, I feel like it's
extremely selfish for a man, and it's just my personal beliefs.
Extremely selfish for a man to ask a woman to
be on birth control for fifteen twenty years, have children

(01:00:17):
go through near death experiences, and then when it's time
for you to get a ten minute procedure, say now
I'm not doing it. That to me just seems wild selfish.
You could say to me that I'm hating I'm not
holding up for the men. I just think that's wild
fucking corny, bro, because they are women out here who
have lost their lives. There are men out here who

(01:00:39):
have lost their wives, and they all say, if I
could have done that again so my wife could be here,
I would have done it. That's what I was thinking
about when I got the vasect to me, and I
think it's wild corny. I'm not trying to judge your husband,
but I think he's wild corny for that. And I
think that y'all too need to have an open, honest discussion.
Don't hold the grudge, tell him exactly how you feel

(01:00:59):
and how much an apology would mean to you, and
that's the only way you're going to move forward, because
I do honestly feel like y'all can move forward from this. Yeah,
And it's funny, I learned something new here. I didn't
even realize that having the fallopian tubes removed. I know,
like if you have a full on his direct to me,
like you get rid of like the actual uterus, that
it can push you into premnopause and things like that.
But I didn't even know that just removing the Philippian
tubes alone would cause now some more hormonal changes or

(01:01:24):
hormonal imbalances. So I really do hope that you guys
can have a really open, honest conversation and that he
can um just open up to the idea of where
he may have dropped the ball in this and and
have some sort of account of there's no may, there's
no may he dropped. Because here's the three You're right.
How you say I'm gonna get a sectomy. Nah, I'm

(01:01:45):
not getting a sect me. She takes out her fallopian
tubes right because you don't want to get a sectomy. Now,
her libido was off, she's not in the mood, and
now you're with her because of something you could have controlled. Gentlemen,
I'm telling you right now, I had of a sect
in me. We've been having sex non stop and codeine

(01:02:07):
hasn't been on the crazy birth control, so her libido
has been up, and it's been and you know when
I tell you, nothing has changed, my nut ain't watery.
That was the biggest concern. The consistency want to be
the same exactly because I want you to be grossed
out with a change of consistency. But the consistency is
the same. Concy on a thousand percent. And here's here's

(01:02:32):
the best part. Codeine has been and so much of
service to me because I've done this for her. She says,
you did this for me. I say, I did this
for us. I had to step my game up. She
has been in the gym every single day and it's
probably in the best shape she's been in since we
got married. It's amazing. What just your body in its

(01:02:55):
natural state, with no additives, no hormonal alteration, no control,
like my body in its natural state with none of
those impositions, is really making me feel like I have
a new lease on life. It just freedom. It just
dawned on me that my body has your your body
has gotten back to where it was before we got married,

(01:03:18):
but you've gotten almost as small as you were when
we first met. That couldn't part be because of the hormones. Absolutely,
It never dawned at me until absolutely, Like just a
couple of weeks, I'm like, yo, you're losing weight NonStop.
But I'm like, this is the first time in your
life since two thousand and three where you haven't been
pregnant or on birth control or postpartum or prenatal or

(01:03:39):
any of the things, which is amazing because our doctor,
my doctor did tell my. My midwife told me that
listen for your hormones. To just go back to baseline
after having a baby takes nine to twelve months. So
even trying to get back after a child and putting
that pressure on the snap back within that first year
is almost impossible because depending on the woman, it's gonna
take some time. It takes time, but then it also

(01:04:00):
takes work because then you can't just rely on that
being the excuse. However, for me, I felt like, now
that I've read my body of the i U D,
I am now taking the medications are no longer a thing.
Blood pressure is not an issue for me anymore because
I'm very conscious about what I'm putting in my body.
I'm taking my supplements, y'all see if you follow me
on Instagram my stories, there's certain things that I swear by,

(01:04:21):
my my probiotic, probiotic, you know, all of my different
drinks and things that I do, my fast thing. I
do certain things now because I feel like I had
this new control over my body because this is Cadine
and what her natural state, this is what she's supposed
to be without a baby without being pregnant. Anything I
get my cycle, it comes and goes, and I can
be a better service to develop because my body is

(01:04:42):
naturally My body is just naturally become what it's supposed
to be for him. And it's been great. You know.
It literally just dawned on me sitting here. Why all
this stuff has changed? Why even your moved to work out,
getting convened to work out consistently has always been a

(01:05:03):
struggle to struggle for me. Now I'll be away and
she'll send me videos, just finish my workout, She'll take
off ways she puts on and just showing me her
And I'm just like, yo, this is the woman that
I first met when we were nineteen. But I'm realizing
now nineteen you weren't on birth control like mood energy.
Oh it's crazy, guys. Yeah, if you've already had children,

(01:05:26):
you don't having children. Getting of executive was probably the
best thing for me. Also, it didn't alter you either.
It didn't Ultimately, you don't have you as you know,
I want to get it on. Yeah, you've always been.
It didn't change, Albeto. My concern was my libido and
my two stopsterone and that hasn't happened because of everything
she's been. I'm getting back to the best shape together.

(01:05:49):
Our sex life has been better, and it's just it's
it's also just because we've been focused on each other
and not the fear of getting pregnant. Real talk to
Field to give me stress changes your changes your love life.
It does, it does, all right. I hope you ill
can figure it out this but yeah, he needs to
come up off that apology for real, alright. Uh. Second one, So,

(01:06:11):
throughout my relationship with my wife, even when we were
boyfriend and girlfriend, I've always had a problem with how
she handles men that want to shoot their shot with her.
I understand that I cannot control what a man says
to my wife. She's gorgeous, five pounds with a fat ass,
two exclamation points, all right. My problem is that when
men make passes at her, she doesn't say, hey, I'm married,

(01:06:32):
stop talking to me like that. I've expressed that I
feel disrespected when a man says sexual things to my
wife and she doesn't correct it. She says she ignores it.
Am I wrong that I want her to just stop?
I told her that if they send you hard eyes,
that's cool. Can't stop that. But when they say things
that are inappropriate, then she should step in and say, hey, stop,

(01:06:52):
I'm married, et cetera. If you If they continue to
do it, then I advised her to block them. She says,
I'm controlling her. I just want to know my wrong. Well,
this seems like it's happening through either like a d
M comments. This is like a social media thing here,
because I know, for example, with me, if a man
tries to make a pass in me or shoot their shot,
it's one of those things where I know, for example,

(01:07:13):
if the vow was in that moment there with me,
or if he was overseeing it, DEVO would probably be like, well,
I would expect this man to want to shoot his
shot because he may not know in that moment that
she's married. I may or may not have my ring
on because I just came from the gym, or I
might be by myself somewhere. So it's like, you know
enough to know that if you were a man that
wasn't married to me, you might want to shoot your shot.
And that's not me being at all vain or feeling

(01:07:35):
like but I'll just saying and I expect the same
with you like if if you're the public, you don't
kind of fatast, I get it. I don't shoot you
shot at me. I don't got a fall. But if
a woman came up to you and approach and was
just like hey, Like even if someone who doesn't even
know you, as like Zac on Sistance, it could just
be a woman that just comes across and says, man,

(01:07:55):
that's a good looking man, let me shoot my shot.
I can't be mad at her. I do feel like
do control the situation. Though, So for me, when a
man approaches me and shoots his shot, I'll usually make
a funny comment like I forgot what it was. I remember.
I know them your favorite, your go to, your go to.
Whenever a man said, you know, can we spend some
time together, you always say sure, I'll just go get
my husband and my four sons. And usually they'll they'll

(01:08:19):
be like what you have first of all, to be
like you got four kids and four boys? Damn, that's dope.
He's a lucky guy. And I'm like, yeah, you know,
I'm the lucky one, you know, And it will be
that kind of casual conversation. I don't think it requires
me to be mean or to be nasty, because I've
also heard of instances where women get an adverse reaction
from a man and they are borderline disrespectful if you
try to, you know, reject them. Growing up in New York,

(01:08:42):
I've seen it plenty of times. If it were me
and I'm not around, if it's an imperson thing, I
would tell my wife to ignore them or kindly accept
the compliment and keep it moving, because even ignoring a
certain type of man can lead them to be enraged
and try to shoo physical harm or do something. Would
never want my wife to engage in that type of

(01:09:02):
back and forth with a man, So for me, I
always tell first of all, I don't get insecure about
that if if you truly have a hold on your wife,
that she is your wife, and y'all love each other
infinitely and of a service to each other. There's nothing
a man can say that's gonna get your wife to
not be your wife. So let him say whatever he

(01:09:22):
want to say, like someone can say whatever you want
to say. If you touch my wife's you're dying. But
I think his issue here is more so her not
than saying, well, not get into the reason why I
don't want you to go you know, hey, I'm married,
because you don't know what's going to trigger because men
out here nuts people. And there was a woman in
the airport the other day who walked out on her

(01:09:44):
bill and they addressed her, said, hey, you didn't pay
a bill, and she got the fire holes and started
shooting the fire holes. And everybody remember, because you don't
know what's gonna set somebody off. Right, we just got
out of a pandemic. Mental health is real. I'd rather
you be kind to everyone you come across and and
leave them, leave them with a little bit more happiness
than they had just being in your presence. It's also sorry,

(01:10:06):
but but having to say, you know, I'm married like
that to me is like shows a little bit of insecurity. Yeah,
so you don't got to do that. But also too,
if if, for example, the man replies with the hard
eyes or whatever and then makes another comment or makes
another you know, um advanced at her with something like
social media, you can just leave him on scene, Like
what I'm saying doesn't require back and forth. She may

(01:10:28):
just like to feel like, well, sh it, okay, you know,
I still got it. You know, she might like the
attention in the sense. He didn't say that. She responds
with anything she says. He says, she doesn't shut it down, right, Yeah,
that to me is like non bro. If she's not
responding and she's not saying like, thank you so much,
I believe if she's not having an ongoing back and
forth with these people, then it's like, all right, bro,

(01:10:49):
like insecure much like it a little bit. She's ignoring it.
They said, hard eyes. She didn't say nothing. They said
something I would like to do so, and so she
didn't say nothing. Let them think that it's the computer
that person can be in Istanbold, you're worried about the
dude leaving comments on your your girl's page on East
and eastand bo, no, get out of here, go be

(01:11:09):
a creeman, go jack off to somebody else. But I'm
not going to ask my wife to engage those people.
That's a fact. That's too much energy to worst people
that don't matter. You to see what our dams look like,
they're kind of crazy. It should be kind of crazy
every now and again when I looked through, I'll be like,
whoa you know? And people know we're married, so yeah,
it should be crazy and they don't care and something

(01:11:31):
will just be trying. And I get it. Some married
couples are into that, So that's a fact. You don't
know which married couple is not. Sometimes you shoot your
shot what I'm saying, and if you might ignore lucky, yeah,
you back up. And if they responding, hey, what's up?
You find something you can't be mad at. That was
not an invitation for y'all to email Triple Triple. Make
sure you look through these emails and pictures please of Genitalia.

(01:11:55):
We are not in that that type of environment. I
do not want to share my wife more power if
y'all want to. My wife does not want to share. Literally,
I watched too many dateline secrets on cover episodes. Listen,
I'll tell you all the ins and outs. All right, y'all,
If you want to be featured as one of our
listening letters, be sure to email us at dead as
said advice at gmail dot com. We want to hear

(01:12:17):
from y'all. It's a new year. Thanks for coming back,
and keep the questions coming in and keep the stories
coming in. Yes, email us at D E A D
A D V I C E at gmail dot com.
All right, now, time for a moment of truth, as
did you not say as D E A D A
S S A D V I C E at gmail

(01:12:37):
dot what did you spell dead advice? Listen, no, no, no, baby,
the advice is never more alive. Okay, I'm out of hibernation, y'all.
I told y'all I was out of commission for a
little bit, a bit was tired. But we're back, all right, y'all.
Moment at truth time, we're talking about is he too masculine,

(01:12:58):
she too sorry, she too masks healing? Or is he insecure?
Maybe what you want to leave them with for that moment.
It's very very simple, right, Because we exist in a
patriarchy and have existed in a patriarchy, I do agree
and feel that men have to carry the ball on
this one. Pause and say, you know what the world
is changing and everything that is designed to be quote

(01:13:19):
unquote masculine. For example, we talked about wealth building, generating revenue, ambition.
It's extremely rigid, and the fact that a woman may
have those same type of ambitions doesn't make her more masculine,
which doesn't mean you're less of a man. We have
to open our minds to realize that there are women
out here who can earn just as much or maybe
more than you, but still exist in her femininity in

(01:13:40):
your presence if you leave your insecure mindset at home
and continuously be masculine in her presence. That was off
the top right now. Take all the moments of truth,
several moments of truth, um, but I will say as
my moment of truth, I think they're ultimately needs to

(01:14:03):
be regardless of if it's a man, if it's a woman,
if it's the same sex relationship, whatever it is, the
mutual respect that a couple has for each other should
really be the overarching topic when it comes to just
that idea of who's going to take the lead in
the relationship, whether it's the masculine role of the feminine role.
I think it's important that you never let your husband

(01:14:26):
or your your partner feel beat down in a moment
where life might be lifing and they're having a moment
of just depression or just or just a low like
the ebbs and flows of life. Should require you to
give that person some grace to say, you know what,
in this moment, I am in a space to be
able to take care of this because it's for the
betterment of the greater good of the relationship. So whoever

(01:14:48):
needs to be quote unquote man or woman in the relationship,
or masculine or feminine that relationship, be receptive to leaning
into what is needed of you. So you're then now
using one of your strength rather than focusing on the
other's weakness. Yeah. Absolutely, I I agree with you. As
I want to add this, there's nothing more masculine than

(01:15:09):
watching your wife go out and earn seven figures and
come home and say yes, Daddy, Yes daddy. It's like
that z I like them on with this ze. I'm
gonna take that from zre Z for Zack Baby, I
got zached. We're coming up on our second anniversary here,
um at this house, and um definitely got the Zack
attack baby. We got called to prove it all right,

(01:15:33):
y'all be sure to follow us on social media if
you are not already dead as the podcast, you can
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We don't forget to sign up there, that's right, and
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you can get full dead as episodes. That is a fact. Baby,

(01:15:53):
I know y'all been asking for it. Y'all want to
see video, y'all want to see expressions that we're gonna
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