Girl Climber with Emily Harrington

Mountain Climber Emily Harrington is here to talk about being the first woman to summit El Cap in a day along the Golden Gate route, the mental fortitude it takes to be an endurance athlete, and how to meet a man on Everest. Then: A nosy sister wants to intervene when her brother and his wife are having marital problems… that she’s not supposed to know about. A divorcee searches for the best slopes now that she’s free from a toxic marriage.  And a mom’s surprise vacations get in the way of a daughter’s holiday plans. 

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I just announced all my tour dates. It's called the
Height and Mighty Tour. I'm coming to Washington, d c Norfolk, Virginia, Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Detroit, Michigan, Cleveland, Columbus,
and Cincinnati, Ohio, Denver, Colorado, Portland, Maine, Providence, Rhode Island, Springfield, Massachusetts, Chicago,
of Course, Indianapolis, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, Albuquerque, Masa, Arizona, Kansas City, Missouri,

(00:27):
Saint Louis, Missouri, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Nashville, Tennessee, Charlotte, North Carolina, Durham,
North of Carolina, Saratoga, California, Monterey, California, Modeesto, California, and
port Chester, New York, Boston, Massachusetts, Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I will be touring.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
From February through June, So go get your tickets now.
If you want good seats and you want to come
see me perform, I will be on the High and
Mighty Tour.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hello Hi Catherine, Oh Hi Chelsea.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I'm on the heels of taking my adventure on the road.
I'm heading to Ance, Arctica in the morning, and that
is not a joke.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
I have three flights.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
I'm fly through Houston, Buenos Aires and then Patagonia, and
then I bored my barco and travel across Drake's Passage.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Oh my gosh, I heard that that is like the
choppiest water in the planet.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
I have anti NAJA pills.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well I okay, well this is what and I'm knocking
on it.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
I have never had motion sickness, right, I mean not
unless a lot of you know, drugs are alcohol were involved.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Which well they will be.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
But I'm a very good seaworthy person, so I don't
think I will. But I am bringing it just in case,
because this is going to be serious.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Yes, I will say the scopolamine patches can make your
vision a.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
Little bit blurry.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Well we got dramamine.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Oh okay, all right, so is that I don't know
that will make your vision blurry? I don't pay yeah,
but if you do have to upgrade discopolamine patches, just
cut it in half it we'll make your vision so blurry.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Okay, Well, my vision is typically blurry.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
I mean think think about everything I'm putting in my
body also because of.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
The drugs and alcohol.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Drugs and alcohol.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
So yes, I will be in Antarctica doing LSD with
penguins and everyone will see me when I return.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
I'm sure the penguins will make you a changed woman.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
So. Emily Herrington is the first woman to free climb
the Golden Gate route on El Capitan in under twenty
four hours. She is a five time US national champion climber,
has summited Mount Everest and skied most of the eight
thousand meter peaks. Her new documentary is called Girl Climber
and it's out now. Please welcome Emily Harrington.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Hi, Emily, Hi, good morning, top of the morning to you.
Are you on a mountain peak as we speak to
you right now?

Speaker 4 (02:48):
No? No, I'm in Tahoe.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
I had to watch your movie twice because, oh really,
I couldn't believe it the first time, so I had
to watch it again.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I had to rewatch it.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
It's called Girl Climber and it will be available for
everybody to stream. It's out on Jolts right now, and
then it comes on some streaming.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Platforms I believe. Correct.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yes, okay, so let's talk about you and your peaks.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
First of all, how are you doing now? You have
a baby, You're married. I feel like your energy and
ambition has probably recalibrated a little bit.

Speaker 5 (03:22):
Yeah, I think that's a very accurate statement.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (03:26):
I've had some life changes since the movie, all good things,
but yeah, just you know, different, different challenging and yeah,
energy sapping energy.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah right.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Well, first of all, congratulations on being the first woman
to climb El Capitan the Golden Gate.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
You did that in less than twenty four hours.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
You also climbed Mount Everest when you were twenty five
years old, So it's like, I don't know where to begin.
Let's begin there since that happened first. You did that
without really any training. You went and climbed Mount Everest
with a group of people, left your Shirpa and the
dust because he couldn't keep up with you.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
So talk to us.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
About that decision and about how one decides to do
something like that without the proper quote unquote training. I
don't say quote unquote because you do fucking need training to.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
Do that, right, ice climbing and all.

Speaker 5 (04:13):
That, Yes you do, and you know, yeah, without specific training,
but you have to remember that I've been a rock
climber since the age of ten.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
But that's not nice snow though, is that? I mean?

Speaker 6 (04:23):
No?

Speaker 5 (04:24):
But I also grew up skiing, and then you know,
in my early twenties, I started kind of diversifying my
climbing and I learned how to ice climb. I actually
like one an ice climbing competition like earlier that year,
so I had like started acquiring the skills. I would say,
I just didn't have very much altitude experience, which I

(04:44):
think is is very important for something like Mount Everest.
But thankfully it all worked out. Well, yeah, it did
work out. Tell us about it, though.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
I mean, there was this there's a great scene in
the movie where you're stuck at the tent with your
girlfriend who has since sadly passed away in an hour lanche.
Which but as you were, as you were talking about
climbing Mount Everest, there's a part of it where there
are like five avalanches a day that happen and you
have to just kind of time it right so that
you don't get caught in one. I mean that sounds

(05:14):
absolutely fucking crazy.

Speaker 5 (05:16):
I think, to you know, the lay person, it might
be a bit insane. Mount Everest is a very interesting place.
I've learned a lot since being there myself. I think
as a young twenty five year old, I was pretty naive.
Now I'm married to a mountain guyde who goes to
Mount Everest every year, so have quite a different perspective
on it. But yeah, it was a wild experience. It

(05:39):
taught me a lot.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
It is.

Speaker 5 (05:40):
It was a radical departure from anything that I was
used to in my climbing. You know, Mount Everest is
walking up a big snowy hill for a very long
period of time with this like excruciating suffering of high altitude.
It's not technically difficult like I was used to in
rock climbing, so those types of skills are actually quite
easy for me. But at the same time, there was

(06:03):
there was a lot of suffering. There was a lot
of what we call type two fun, which is like
the in hindsight looking back, like, oh that was actually
pretty cool, even though I was fucking miserable the whole time.
So yeah, it was it was a really I think
it was a valuable experience. It changed my entire life
because that was where I did meet my husband, So
I have a lot to thank for Everest.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
That's not good advice for our listeners. That's how you
meet your soulmate climbing Mount Everest. Because I mean, how
many people are going to be able to just whip
it out and do that when you're doing these things,
because like I think a through line of this movie
is your fear, you not your fearlessness. It's pushing beyond
your fear, and it's it's about it's about really kind

(06:44):
of get the adrenaline that comes from beating your fear
and moving past any sort of boundaries that we may
set for ourselves, and also committing to the pain of it. Right,
the pain is a side It's kind of almost a
side notion. It's like that's part of the process to
get where you're going. Was kind of one of my
takeaways from watching this is that a you wanted to

(07:07):
be up there, like, you know, you don't want to
be thought less than as a woman, because women are
you say this in the beginning of the film infurior
or thought to be inferior physically to men, and you
wanted to prove that that's not necessarily true, correct.

Speaker 5 (07:20):
I mean, I think more than anything, I wanted to
prove something to myself. And I think throughout that journey
on Golden Gate it became more evident that it was
much more an internal struggle than an external sess. That said,
I do think the film did a really nice job
of kind of like expressing these more feminine characteristics of vulnerability,
of expressing fear, crying, showing emotion, and it kind of,

(07:46):
you know, a lot of these things that are perceived
of as weaknesses, I think the film does a really
nice job of kind of revealing those things as strengths.
I was very vulnerable. I was very honest about my
fears and my struggles and my failures. But I think
think a lot of those things are what eventually enabled
me to be successful, because I did become comfortable sitting

(08:07):
in those spaces of fear and struggle and failure, And
I think those are pretty important human experiences to have
that a lot of us just don't get to have
in daily life. We don't get to confront those uncomfortable
things very often.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
The movie starts out with you attempting El Capitan with
Alex Hunnold, who we all know from Free Solo, and
you kind of weren't really as prepared as you would
want to have been. And then then you go back
again the next year, you do more training, and then
you train on Al Capitan and then you make a third,
you make your next attempt, right, So it's kind of
like how do you frame those periods of time that

(08:43):
were in the movie from the beginning to the end,
Like when you look at that, do you think, oh,
I wasn't prepared enough?

Speaker 2 (08:49):
Like do you accept that?

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (08:52):
Absolutely, Like I think that first attempt, I actually knew
that I wasn't prepared. But sometimes you need to kind
of like try the thing in order to figure out
what you need to do. Differently, like you have to
go fail in order to find out what needs to
change and what you need to improve upon. And so
for me, that attempt was actually just I didn't really

(09:12):
expect to be successful. Like the weather didn't look good,
the season was really tough, the entire wall was wet,
Like the odds of success were pretty slim. But it
was like I need to go try to kind of
like see where I'm at and see where my fitness
is and see the weak points so that I can
like go back and train and then I can come
back and be better. So you kind of have to

(09:32):
go I had to go fail in order to like
figure out what to.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
Do, almost like a dry run, right as a job
and to be fair, you got like a way run
and hailed off the side of the mountains, so fair.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, so and then you go, okay, so then you
go back and start trading with him, which, by the way,
great support system. I mean, he's like the best but
the best climbing buddy you could possibly have. And your husband,
of course is also a great support system. But I
mean it felt like, you know, the first time, I
I wasn't sure how many times you had done it.
I was like, wait, did I just watch her four
or five times do the same thing? And then I realized, oh, okay,

(10:06):
this is you practicing, and this is you want to
pitch where you fall down a pitch and then you
redo the pitch. So there's all these kind of different
there's all these different kind of technical terms that I
wasn't familiar with. But I mean, it's an incredible feat
and it's incredible strength of mind because you talk us
through when you were younger, and you know, you.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Had an eating disorder.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
You were eating only carrots for a sort of period
in your life where your mother was said you your
hands turned orange because you were only eating carrots.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
And to be doing your.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
Physical activities with that little nutrition and what you were
doing in terms of rock climbing and ice picking at
all of those things, like the wear and tear that
that must have had on your body, and the innate
strength that you had to even continue to do that
in those conditions.

Speaker 5 (10:49):
Yeah, I mean, I think eating disorders are pretty pervasive
in the sport of climbing, just because it is kind
of a strength to wait ratio sport and you do
see like really short gains and it's very obvious when
it happens, but like it is short term, like it
doesn't last. And so I think for me, I just
started emotionally and physically breaking down and recognizing that climbing

(11:13):
was making me really unhappy and it was becoming a punishment.
And that's actually when I started transitioning into other avenues
of climbing, different disciplines. That's when I had the opportunity
to go to Nepal to go to the Himalaya, and
then the following year I went to Mount Everest. And
with that kind of climbing, you really cannot get away
with not fueling properly, Like it's just not an option.

(11:34):
You just won't go anywhere on the mountain and so
that was really eye opening for me. Was like, oh, actually,
like I need to feel my body in order to
be successful. And it took several years for me to
kind of like wrap my brain around it. I kept
kind of having falling back into the bad habits, but
I think, you know, thankfully I had some really good
mentors and really good influences on me, and then I

(11:56):
did kind of diversify and go into this other realm
of climbing and and recognize essentially what I was doing wrong,
that the approach was just flawed.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
And how was the approach flawed because of the eating
disorder or because of everything surrounding that.

Speaker 5 (12:10):
I think everything. I think the idea of trying to
control every single thing in my life and having this
really like perfectionist mindset and being super hard on myself
if things didn't go perfectly, it was just beating me down.
And then the eating disorder was kind of a you know,
it was kind of just like an effect of all
of those feelings, and then it was like a cycle

(12:31):
of punishment, like if I didn't succeed, then I had
to train harder, and I had to eat less and
I had to do more, and so it was just
like this cycle of exhaustion and punishment and honestly just unhappiness.
And I think a lot of like athletes can can
relate to being kind of stuck in that space.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
And do you think that's more of a female thing,
female athlete thing, or do you think eating disorders are
pervasive among men in sport as well.

Speaker 5 (12:55):
I think it's pervasive among men as well. I just
don't think it's as talked about, right. I don't think
it's as accepted for men to talk about it even
But I do know some men who have struggled with it,
and you know, I think that they're much more prone
to kind of like hiding it and not talking about
it and having it. People not really like think it's
an issue with men, but I very much think it is.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Okay, So halfway through this movie, you're attempting to climb
you start, I think at four in the morning, you're
attempting again to climb Al Capitan.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
You're with Alex and his girlfriend and you have a fall.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
You fall.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
How many feet did you fall?

Speaker 5 (13:29):
I think I fell like fifty feet. It's something I.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Mean, how did you not get more injured during that fall?

Speaker 2 (13:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (13:37):
Honestly, I think it was like one of those super
lucky situations. I completely like flipped upside down, and I
think I flipped upside down and there was so much rope,
there was so much slack in the system that the
rope actually caught me on my neck and like burned
my I had like this crazy rope burn all up
and down my neck and I did hit my head.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
I lost consciousness.

Speaker 5 (13:58):
So for me, like, I don't remember a whole lot
because I did lose consciousness. I think it was like
far more traumatic for the people who were there and
rescued me.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, and that's all caught on camera.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
So that was also because you're hearing you scream and
you don't know exactly what has happened to you. And
then we see you in the hospital and we realize
that you you are injured, but you're not It's not
like you can't walk again, which is what Alex was
worried about when he heard that fall.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
I think we were all worried about that.

Speaker 5 (14:25):
I did have back pain, but then like I went
to the hospital and they were kind of in disbelief too.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
They were like you fell how far?

Speaker 5 (14:31):
Like oh my god, and then they did all these
tests and they were like, you're fine, you can you
can leave. So you know, I had a concussion obviously,
but and mentally, I think I was pretty shaken, and
it took me a while to kind of like get
back to a place where I felt comfortable climbing again,
where I could really trust myself. But yeah, I got
I got incredibly lucky.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
And it's just such a mental Like when you were
watching this movie and watching you, I just felt such
an understanding of like it's almost I mean, of course
it's physical, it's all physical, but it is so if
not more mental than commensurateto how physical it is.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
I want you to talk to me about that.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
What part of you do you think is mental and
for this kind of thing, or and what part is physical?

Speaker 5 (15:16):
I mean, I think it's massively mental. I think the
ability to kind of look at this three thy two
hundred foot wall and say, Okay, I'm gonna try to
climb it in under twenty four hours. It's just a
massive mental and emotional undertaking. And it's really hard to
not feel incredibly daunted when you're standing at the bottom.

(15:37):
So it very much is the process of like breaking
it down into these more digestible pieces and maintaining composure
of this really long, long period of time. And then
there is a level of exhaustion that you eventually reach,
you know, halfway up the wall too, they'd the way
up the wall or whatever.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
That may be.

Speaker 5 (15:53):
And there is like this mental component of like you
have to keep going even though you feel exhausted. I mean,
it's just like any endurance sport where you really have
to kind of like dig into those mental reserves and
the mental endurance in order to kind of like keep moving.
And you have to have a lot of belief and
a lot of faith that you do have that little
bit of extra to keep going.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, what would you say to people who are I mean,
who are struggling with that?

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Because it's any athlete, you know.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
I was just at the US Open and you could
see people who are not mentally like you know, they're
tougher physically than they are mentally, their mental game isn't there.
And then when you see people who are mentally clicked in,
you know, you could see how they are just unbeatable,
like they just keep going and they keep going. But
it's not something that is you know, it's it's not
a permanent state of mind to be mentally prepared for something.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
No, it's not.

Speaker 5 (16:43):
But I think that it has to be trained, just
like your body has to be trained. And I think
that's a lot of things that like maybe amateur athletes
don't often recognize, is a lot of these elite athletes
are doing mental training alongside their physical training, so they're
prepared baring their minds just as well as they're preparing
their bodies for like the big the big day or

(17:04):
the game or whatever, the match or whatever that is.
And it does it takes a lot of work up
front to kind of prepare your mind and then you know,
be ready for when circumstances arise that are out of
your control on the day to kind of like deal
with those circumstances and deal with the pitfalls and keep going.
I think it it you have to think of it

(17:25):
like a muscle. Like I do work with a sports
psychologist who kind of like has helped me for years
get to the point where I'm ready on the day.
And I just think that that's often something that's missed
is that we also like train our minds just as much.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
And do you think you were leaning I mean, of
course you were leaning on Alex kind of in an
emotional way, right, even though he was there to climb
with you, you know, because watching it first of all, but
they don't show your sports psychologists in this movie.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
No, it's like a little clip of me talking to
her on the phone. Okay, there's like quite a bit
of like liability. Liability with that.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
I would imagine, how did you feel? How did you
feel watching this film and seeing yourself at all these
different stages in your life.

Speaker 5 (18:09):
It's funny because everybody sees the film and then they,
you know, everybody kind of like thinks they know you
and they know your story, and part of that is true.
But it really truly is just like this little stap
shot of my life. And thankfully I really like the movie.
I think it's done quite well. I'm really proud of it,
and I'm proud of the whole team. And so it's
been a really fun kind of reliving of the whole journey.

(18:30):
It's been pretty nostalgic, and I think after after I
did Golden Gate, I went through this period of time
where I was like kind.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
Of downplaying it into my head.

Speaker 5 (18:40):
I think a lot of athletes go through this, you
kind of like do the thing, and then you're like
a little depressed and everything feels like melancholy and you're like, well,
what am I doing now?

Speaker 4 (18:47):
I'm lost.

Speaker 5 (18:48):
I definitely went through that, and so now that the
movies out and I've had some distance from it, it's
been really fun to kind of like feel proud. I
don't think I felt like this is the most proud
I've felt of the actual achievement because I got to
kind of like relive it with all these people and
people are like inspired by it, and that's just been
such a cool process to go through.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, how many times have you climbed it since then?
Since you've since you've had a baby.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
No, I haven't. I haven't been back. I mean no,
I have been back. I've been back every year. I
just haven't been to El Cap. I've climbed in the
valley at other areas, other walls that are quite a
bit shorter. I haven't quite I haven't quite gotten the
like fire back to climb on that wall. Every time
I drive into Yosemite, I look at it and I'm like,
oh my god, it's so big.

Speaker 4 (19:33):
I can't believe I did that.

Speaker 5 (19:36):
So I'm yeah, I'm getting there slowly, but it's been
kind of a long road to get back to that
style of climbing for me. I do still climb a ton,
and I train really hard, and thankfully there's all these
different styles of climbing that kind of like are a
bit easier and less time consuming than free climbing on
El Cap. So I still rock climb a bunch. I
haven't made it back to El Cap yet, but I
really hope, So hope.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
So and now.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
And you climb with your baby, right, I mean, I
guess they're not a baby anymore.

Speaker 5 (20:01):
How, he's two and a half. Yeah, we we try
to do trips that are like kind of like friendly
for families. We have a bunch of like all of
us have kids now. We're just all like aging athletes,
like Donald has two kids now. So we all go
together and like bring the vans and go and it's

(20:21):
just like complete chaos, but we all get to climb
and kind of help each other out and it's it's
super fun. But yeah, we bring him along. He's like
pretty excited. He's pretty stoked on like swinging around on
the ropes and like talking about climbing.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
But yeah, it's kind of like a family affair.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
Now, another thing I'm really jealous of is that you've
skied so many peaks in so many different countries.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
What is it? Eight thousand peaks? Is that what it says?

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Four thousand foot peaks, eight thousand meters, eight thousand meters,
thousand peaks. Who's counting all those peaks eight thousand meters?

Speaker 5 (20:52):
I haven't done eight thousand peaks. Yeah, I'm a skier,
you're a skier.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
I love steeing, yes, but I mean I've ever done
anything like that. No, I would be fucking shitting my pants.

Speaker 5 (21:04):
I mean, skiing was my first passion. I started skiing
when I was two years old, and I was a
ski racer and I quit for climbing, and then I
moved to Tahoe when I met my husband and he's
he's like a professional big mountain skier, so he's skied
like a lot of the biggest mountains in the world,
and I've like joined for some of the trips. But
for me, skiing is like since rediscovered it. It's a

(21:26):
total second passion and it's just like this really amazing
alternative to climbing that I have where like I don't
have any like weird expectations or performance or like anxiety
or identity like wrapped up in skiing, Like skiing is
for me, It's like this amazing, fun, lovely activity for

(21:46):
me to do with my husband, and it's just like
one of my favorite things. Like sometimes I'd much rather
go skiing than go climbing because it just is such
a like refreshing alternative to like my career, which is
right climbing.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Right, right?

Speaker 1 (21:59):
And what ways do you think that you've applied what
you've learned from actually accomplishing that and having such not
a bumpy road, but you know your challenge is along
the way to accomplish what you set out to do,
which was climate Capitan in less than twenty four hours.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
On that route.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Like how have you been able to measure how that
experience has influenced your like mother, you know, being a mother,
or and having a baby and being a parent, Like
how does it influence your decisions or challenges that you
face in your real life?

Speaker 5 (22:32):
Yeah, I mean, I just like to say that having
a kid is like embarking on a lifelong expedition. Like
when you go on an expedition, it's like you're you're
like sleep gets all fucked up, You're like not eating
as well as you want. You know, you don't have
a routine. Like you're exhausted, but you still have to
like perform and you still have to like keep moving
forward and you still have to keep trying. And that's

(22:54):
kind of what parenting is. It's like some days it
like sucks and you're tired and like nobody's had but
you just like keep moving and every phase is temporary
and you just keep going and like when you look
back on it, you're kind of like, oh, yeah, actually,
like that was a great memory. That was a super
fun time, even though it was like really hard. And
so I think we've sort of applied that to our parenting.

(23:15):
It's just like another adventure that we're embarking on and
we're still like trying to do all the same things.
We're still trying to go places. We're trying to be skiers,
we're trying to be climbers, we're trying to be athletes,
and we're trying to incorporate our son into it. Of course,
like things have changed and we've like pivoted a little
bit and we have different priorities and we approach risk

(23:36):
completely differently than we used to. But that's not to
say that we don't still take risks. I think risk
is like a very healthy part of living and it's
something that we should all like talk more about. So yeah,
we just kind of like view it in that framework
of like what we've always done in our lives, and
like we're gonna keep doing what we do. We're gonna
keep trying hard, We're gonna keep trying to do hard things.

(23:56):
Being a parent is also hard, but it's also like
really fun and we've chosen it and so this is
like our chosen like suffering and our chosen adventure and
it's mostly awesome.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Well, I like what you said about taking risks, Like
how does that apply to being a parent, Like, what
are some ways in which you take risks as a parent,
Because I think people think about that as like a
solo journey, right, risk taking, Like, oh, that's about me,
and you're only putting yourself at risk.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
But is there any way in which you do that
as a parent.

Speaker 5 (24:24):
Yeah, I mean we take risks in our own like
athletic endeavors still my husband and I and we talk
very clearly about those things and we you know, kind
of like way whether or not the experience of the
achievement is going to be worth the risk, and some
things just nowadays just aren't as worth it, so we
kind of don't do them.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
We back off.

Speaker 5 (24:41):
But also we like encourage our kid to take risks.
We encourage him to think about risks, and like if
he falls down, he falls down and you learn something
from it. We don't really feel like we want to
be like the bubble rep parents and kind of like
today from yeah, prevent him from mix experiencing like failure

(25:01):
and you know, getting hurt and stuff like that. I mean,
obviously there's like guardrails that we have, but I think
for the most part we're like pretty soaked on bringing
him along for adventures and you know, really opened to
talking about risks, and I think, you know, it's going
to be harder as he gets older. I think that's
the trick with parenting is like when your kid finds
their passion, hopefully they find their passion, you know, not

(25:23):
really worrying about about those things and really worrying about
what could happen to them. I think that's going to
be like one of the biggest hurdles right now, it's
like all very simple. He's too, so like's not it's
not that hard. The decisions aren't that hard yet.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, and the movie you talk about the first time
you went rock climbing and like that you said a
light turned off.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
I would say probably on or off. Right, when you.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Experience that, just talk to a little bit about finding
the thing that moves you.

Speaker 7 (25:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (25:50):
I feel super lucky that I had that experience. I
was ten years old and we.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
Were at this I grew up in Colorado.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
We're at this lake and there was one of those
artificial walls and I climbed the wall and I just
remember like I was really afraid because I could like
feel the air under my feet and I felt exposure
and I was like feeling fear, but I just like
kept going, kept going and got to the top and
came down. And it was just like this really empowering

(26:17):
feeling to like be afraid and feel exposure but continue
to work through it and get to the top. And
it was just one of those feelings where I just
I immediately went to my dad and I was like,
how do I do this again? Like this is what
I want to do. I just I want to do
that again. So I went, he took me to the
climbing gym and then everything just took off from there.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
And I know it's obviously a mostly male sport, like
everything in the world is. So what is the community
like with climbers because in the movie there's feature you know,
there's other climbers featured summer, mostly male, there's a couple
of women in there. What's the vibe like, do you
go in a group typically? Do you ever go by
yourself or is that a no no, you always need
a buddy.

Speaker 5 (26:56):
Yeah, it depends on what you're doing. I will say
that climbing is is it's growing massively. It's an Olympic
sport now, and it's just like exploding across the world
in terms because of climbing gyms, I think, and the
female participation has just skyrocketed. And it is one of
the only sports I think where the difference between men

(27:16):
and women is quite a bit narrower, and it's getting
more narrow Like some of the best climbers in the
world are females. Some of the most well known climbers
in the world are females. Because it is a very
complicated sport, it rewards strength, but it also rewards flexibility,
and it also rewards like you know, puzzle like the
ability to solve puzzles, and it rewards body awareness. And

(27:38):
so there are these spaces where females can really excel
and we have and we do have these like standout
achievements in climbing, like what Lynn Hill did in the
early nineties when she was the first person to free
climb l Cap in a day like that is like
the most groundbreaking achievement in rock climbing and it is
owned by a woman and everybody knows it. So in
that way, climbing is very unique. That said, there are

(28:01):
you know, there's obviously more male participation than female. And
when I was growing up, I basically like just climbed
with boys. There weren't that many girls. But now it's
like just so different. Yeah, when we go round climbing, generally,
if you're climbing with a rope, you have a partner.
And so I go with my husband or I have
friends around. I have a lot of friends, like I said,

(28:22):
who have kids now, so we kind of can all
go together. If I'm going to the climbing gym, I
sometimes will just go by myself and put my headphones
in and just like go get my workout in. That's
like the most effective, easiest way to train is to
just like go by yourself and do your thing. So, yeah,
it's a mix. But if you're going outside, generally I
have a partner because I like to climb on a
rope or with a rope.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Do you mentor any young climbers and a young females.

Speaker 5 (28:47):
Yeah, I mean I think I'm sort of stepping into
that role as a mentor right now, especially with the
film coming out. I'm also a part of the north
Face Global Athlete Team, which is this really amazing like
it's a very well formed team of athletes and we
get together and there are opportunities to mentor the younger athletes.
I've now been on the team since two thousand and eight,

(29:08):
so I'm like one of the older athletes on the team.
And growing up I had mentors like Conrad Ankor who
brought me to Mount Everest and Hillary Nelson who's in
the film. And so now I'm sort of stepping into
that role with the younger athletes on the team, which
has been super fun. And then also I'm now working
with this nonprofit called z Girls, which is like mental
health coaching for adolescent girls. And what it is is

(29:30):
they like pair a professional athlete with a mental health
coach and we do these like virtual calls where we
kind of help young girls they're like ages eleven to fourteen,
kind of like deal with all the struggles of being
an adolescent and confidence and all of those things. And
so that's been kind of a really cool way to
like mentor just more young women.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
I was so amazed watching the film, Like when you
guys whipped out of bed like on the side of
the mountain, I was like, wait, they're gonna go fucking
sleep now. I'm like, I mean, it's kind of amazing
what you can bring up there with you. Because the
definition of free climbing. You tell me, what's the definition
of free climbing?

Speaker 5 (30:05):
Yeah, so free climbing is exactly what you imagine it
to be. It is using your hands and feet to
ascend a wall and no, you're use No, you use
a rope. So this is where it gets confused. Okay,
free climbing is using your hands and feet to ascend
a wall, and you use a rope and protection in
case of a fall. Now, that's so it's meant to

(30:25):
be compared against aid climbing, which is how like back
in the sixties they climbed walls like l cap they
would like place protection and pull on the protection and
they would use the ropes. That's called aid climbing because
they thought it was impossible to free climb, like they
thought it was impossible to climb just the rock itself.
And now we have free climbing. The reason that it
got fucked up is I blame Alex Honald because of

(30:48):
free solo. Everybody the term free everybody just associates that
with like no ropes. Free solo is actually free climbing
without a rope. Okay, it's the term solo that differentiates it.
So free climbing is anything. If you've ever been to
a climbing gym and you're like climbing on the little
the colored holes, that is free climbing. Like anytime you're
just using your hands and feet to a sand that's

(31:10):
free climbing. It's just like this umbrella term. And in
general we use rope and protection in case of a fall.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
And what are you doing to eat on your way up?
What are you taking for nutrients?

Speaker 5 (31:20):
I'm kind of like a snacker, so I would bring
just like a variety of like bars and dried fruit
and nuts and salty things, a lot of water.

Speaker 4 (31:31):
You know.

Speaker 5 (31:31):
We had like a good support crew with us, so
like Alex had a backpack with a bunch of stuff
in it, and he wasn't free climbing. He was like
ascending the rope behind me, so he could carry like.

Speaker 4 (31:40):
A lot more.

Speaker 5 (31:41):
And then yeah, we had Adrian brought down some food
for me. So yeah, it's just like kind of it's
kind of like running an ultra marathon or like running
a long race. It's like you kind of want to
be fueling a little bit every hour essentially.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah, what did you think, Catherine when you watched the movie?
I mean, did you have to watch it twice?

Speaker 5 (31:58):
Like me?

Speaker 3 (31:59):
I didn't watch it twice. I was wrapped, Like my
attention was just so wicky.

Speaker 7 (32:03):
Up.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
It's really intense. I mean it really like real, just
tough stuff.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Two things that really were shocking to me, one being
the choice to sort of announce that you were going
to do this project, that you were going to free
climb l Cap. Not the easiest route, but you know,
a different route a harder route in under twenty four
hours before you did it, because if you hadn't announced it,
like no one would know that you, you know, quote
unquote failed a few times. No one would know if

(32:30):
you never made it. But I thought that was so
interesting that you chose to do that.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Did you do that so that you would do it?

Speaker 4 (32:39):
I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
I think like in this day and age, like as
an athlete, you're kind of like your own brand, and
so you do have to tell stories. And I'm a
firm believer in kind of like bringing people along for
the ride in all of its forms, like it in
the failure and the success. And I think people are
the people are so like kind of drawn to the

(33:03):
film is because they can relate to it because there
is a lot of failure and because they did tell
the story. And I wasn't afraid to like be vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
And you wanted to give up, and there were times
where you wanted to give up even while you were climbing.
You were like, forget it, I can't do it, And
they're like you're gonna do your husband, and I believe
was like you're going to do it today, you know,
Like I mean that is anything that is something that
anybody can relate to, is failing and wanting to give
up and throw in the towel. But the perseverance really
what separates you know, the winners.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
And the other thing about that is that was after
you had had a fall on that success, you know,
the attempt that you were successful, and that fall is
so excruciating to watch where you just head first hit
the wall, I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
And then end up with a hole in your head. Yeah.
But the fact that you.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Like stop, you have yourself a little cry, and then
you go the rest of the way the fuck up
the mountain Like that, to me was so incredible. And
you know what you were saying earlier about showing emotion,
that is a perfect example of that. Like you got
that out of your system and then you kept going.

Speaker 5 (34:02):
Yeah, and that's what I tell people. It's like people
are like, how did you keep going?

Speaker 4 (34:06):
Like you wanted to give.

Speaker 5 (34:06):
Up, and it's like, yeah, I didn't want to give up,
but I kind of knew, Like I also needed Adrian
there to be like, Nope, you're not You're not done.
I would tell you if you were done, like you
you're fine, Like we did first aid and everything. I
didn't actually have a concussion, but I really needed to,
like like you said, I needed to like get it
out of my system and like have the cry express
all the doubts, like express that I wasn't feeling confident.

(34:27):
And then it was like, okay, like all of that's
out there. I got it off my chest and now
I can like try again, which, honestly, like logistically it
kind of was the easiest thing to do. Like, bailing
at that position on the wall is quite difficult, Like
you're not it's not just like you're gonna like hop
in your car and you know, go home and have
an idea.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
It does happen when one bails at that point, because
I would think you would just lay down or repel down.

Speaker 5 (34:54):
Or super convoluted and really difficult to do, Like you
can't really repel straight down off that section the wall
for various nuanced reasons. The easiest way is up, so
you could like ascend ropes basically or aid climb out.
But at that point it's like, why don't you just
try to climb the pitch one more time? You know,
so I like kind of big wall free climbing is cool,

(35:15):
and it kind of like forces you into these positions,
like you're kind of like forced into trying because it's
actually just like kind of the easiest thing to do
in the moment.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
And what is that called?

Speaker 1 (35:26):
When you're sandwiched in between like like in a cave,
when you're a crack, Yeah, the crack is what's the
term for that?

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Is just a crack?

Speaker 5 (35:33):
Well, yeah, it's crack climbing when you're ascending a crack.
But what we when it's like wider then your your
hands can fit, then that's called like wide climbing or
off with climbing. And it's this super like uncomfortable, like
specific style of climbing that is very unique to l
cap and other like you know granite.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, I mean it seems impossible. It's like it like sucks.

Speaker 5 (35:57):
It's like my least favorite kind of climbing, and I'm
like not that good at it.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
So when you summitted and you got to the top
for the first time, when you i mean the way
you wanted to, I think you had done it before,
but not that like not free climbing, right, So the
first time you did it and you break down and
you're emotional and you're joyful and all the things, and
you say this really great line about like you're hungry,
you're wet, you're cold, but everything is perfect something along

(36:23):
those lines.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Which I thought is a great love that line. Yeah,
it's really.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Beautiful, and I kind of sums up everything that anyone
would feel after fighting your way to get somewhere. What
was it like for you to watch yourself do that
and be in that state?

Speaker 4 (36:37):
It's so awesome.

Speaker 5 (36:38):
Like I always whenever the film is premiering and I
have to be at a premiere, I always leave for
the middle, and then I always make sure to come
back for the end because I do. It's like it's
just so special and I just feel so lucky that,
you know, I got to I get to experience it again.
It was just such a relief, honestly, like a relief
and surreal and joyful.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
I was just so stoked.

Speaker 5 (37:02):
And then what people often don't realize is like you
have to like walk back down off the top, and
it takes like three and a half hours. So we
were just like at the top and then we had
to walk back down. We got back at like three
am or so.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
You walk down off the back of the mountain or
you repel back down you.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
Like, no, you don't repel down.

Speaker 5 (37:20):
You kind of like walk back and then wind your
way around and you actually end up having to do
like three or four repels and then you hike through
the woods and down. But it takes like three hours
and it's super easy to get lost. It's it's just
like a whole thing.

Speaker 4 (37:33):
Especially in the middle of the night.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
And I know, I know, I don't understand how people
do this in the middle of the night with a
miner's lamp.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
And also all of those hooks.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Are those hooks already on all these mountains, because where
do these hooks come from? Like are they permanent on
El Capitan that you're hooking.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Your ropes to.

Speaker 5 (37:51):
Yes, So some of it is so there are bolts
that the first ascension is like the people who go
up there and like find the line and make the route.
Sometimes they put in bolts where they drill a hole
in the wall and then they hammer in a bolt
and you can clip a carabiner to that and that's
how you clip your open. So the bolts are permanent.
And then we have like traditional gear, which is like

(38:11):
we have these devices called cams and they're like they're
like pieces of metal and you squeeze, you squeeze a
trigger and it like contracts and you stick it in
the crack and it expands and it's actually super solid
and we'll hold a fall. But you put those in
and then you remove them. So we have like gear
that can be placed permanently and then gear that can
be removed, and it kind of just depends on the
style of climbing in the place. Some places have specific

(38:33):
rules about bolts, like some don't allow it, so it's
all like again, very nuanced, but yes, some of the
gears up there and some of them we bring with
us and like put it in and take it out.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Okay, Okay, we're going to take a break and we're
going to be right back with Emily Harrington from a
Girl Climber. And we're back with Emily Harrington from Girl Climber,
who set a record, well, she said a lot of records.
You've won a lot of awards, but we'll cover all
of that in your intro, so you don't have to
listen to all of your awards for me, because you're
a five time US National Champion climber.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
So okay, we're back.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
We are back.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
We're back with Emily.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Are you ready to get.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
We're going to feel some We're going to field some
questions from callers and give some advice and I'm sure
these are related to your experience.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
And I'll be in your wheelhouse more.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Okay, Well, our first question, this one's an email, comes
from Molly. She says, Dear Chelsea, I need travel recommendations
and advice on how to have fun, feel empowered, but
stay safe while traveling solo as a forty four year
old female. I'm finally out of a twenty year toxic
marriage and looking forward to finding myself again on the

(39:40):
slopes after years of raising kids without much of a
partner financially, scraping by, and wasting so much time, money,
and energy on getting legally unhitched. On December twenty fifth,
at twelve pm, I will be child free and on
winter break from work for over a week.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
Chelsea, where should I go? Taho go ski?

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yeah? So, she says.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
I used to love to travel Europe, but that was
always in his shadow, on his schedule, with his rules.
I'm an avid s gear I've got all the gear,
but finances are a thing I've been saving and we'll
have about thirty five hundred dollars to spend on the
whole trip, soup to nuts. I love all the places
you travel, and I'm hoping to reconnect with the independent, intelligent,
twenty year old woman I was just before I met
my ex. In the meantime, maybe I can know what

(40:23):
it feels like to reclaim my narrative, even for a week.
I know you love Whistler, and I'd be all in
if I can financially swing it. What are some other
places of your favorite places to go in the middle
of winter to get away.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
And have fun.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
I think Tahoe has the most options and is the
most affordable. Tell me if I'm wrong. I mean Aspen's expensive,
Whistler's expensive. Tahoe's a little bit more affordable with a
lot of array, and they've been having great snow for
the last like five years.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Do you agree with that, Emily?

Speaker 5 (40:49):
Yeah, I mean I'm biased, but I love Tahoe and
there are that We have so many ski resorts around
Lake Tahoe that you can kind of like pick and choose.
Some are more expensive than others, Some are more you know,
for expert skiers, some are more for beginner skiers. The
terrain differs, but you do have a lot of options.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
And a lot of traffic, Like there's gonna be a
lot of people there, like in a good way.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
You know.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
It's Tahoe's really popular and it's accessible. It's not as
bad as like some of these other ski towns where
there's only one way in and one way out and
if your flight gets delayed, you're on a bus for
eight hours. I feel like Tahoe doesn't have that problem
as often as like a place like Aspen does, or
even some of like you know, Tell You Ride or
Jackson Hole, same kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
So yeah, I think you should go to Tahoe.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
All right, Molly, You're going to Tahoe.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
There you go.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
Excellent.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Well, we do have people calling in, so our first
caller today is Scarlet. She says, Dear Chelsea, I could
really use your take on a recurring family vacation issue.
I live in the Rockies with my long term boyfriend.
My family and his are both on the East Coast.
To keep things fair, my boyfriend and I split the
holidays Thanksgiving with my family Christmas with his, especially because

(41:56):
my family is Jewish and Christmas is my boyfriend's favorite
holiday to spend with his family. The issue is my
mom has a long standing tradition of surprise family Christmas vacations.
She books the whole thing without telling us the destination,
just sends a packing list and.

Speaker 4 (42:10):
Reveals where we're going at the airport.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Cute as a kid, but as an adult, she still
books my flights and accommodations without asking me, and it
has made it difficult to balance the surprise trip and
whatever else is going on in my life. I've directly
asked her many times to please run trips by me
before booking anything on my behalf, but it seems to
fall on deaf years or she just ignores me. When
you're in law school, I had a chance to go
abroad over winter break. I explicitly asked her to wait

(42:33):
until I had my travel dates for the program and
told her it would be my only opportunity to go
before I was done with law school. As soon as
I had the dates, I called her and lo and behold,
she'd already booked the family trip. Anyway, I ended up
cramming in both trips, bounced across four time zones, and
crashed so hard afterward that I barely kept up with classes.
I fear this set a bad precedent because now it
seems like as long as she books the trip first,

(42:56):
she gets dips on my ability.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
This, it's a book your trip. This, this is ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
So another Christmas issue that came up was the first
year that she and her boyfriend decided to spend the
holidays together. Her mom booked the Christmas trip without telling her,
and so she wound up having to go with her family,
and they'd already spent Thanksgiving with her family, so it
was a little unfair on his behalf. So now this
behavior has expanded to all family events. She gets passive

(43:22):
aggressive and I say no. It keeps asking me to reconsider,
and honestly, I'm exhausted trying to juggle her expectations with
my job as a brand new baby lawyer and my
life in law school. I learned that if I don't
make in time for myself to recharge, my body will
force me to repay that debt later via blinding migraines.
So here's my question. Is it reasonable to skip family
trips even if I'm technically available. Do reasons like work,

(43:44):
needing a break, or just not wanting to go make
me an asshole. I'm so resentful that even her generosity
she pays for everything, is starting to feel suffocating.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
Do I need to adjust my attitude, Scarlet?

Speaker 2 (43:55):
No, I'm suffocated by this letter.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
It's too much. It's too much. She needs to chill out,
and you need to put it in writing. Like I
have asked you repeatedly. You are not listening to me.
You are not hearing me. You guys are both splitting
the holidays. Like she has to respect that, Like she
has to respect that You're in a different part of
your life now, you're an adult. You live with her,
You're not her little daughter that she has to pay
for to take you everywhere. Like that's just not the

(44:19):
way it needs to go down. So I would recommend
writing a very stern email saying you've left me no
recourse but to actually write this letter to you. And
these are the rules moving forward, Like you're not telling
me where I'm going, We're not doing surprise trips anymore.
You have to get my permission before I agree to
go on a vacation. What do you think, Emily?

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (44:40):
Absolutely, I mean I could never let someone book a
flight for me. I can't do and I like, way
too controlling to handle that. Yeah, you gotta lay down
the lot for sure.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Yeah, And I think unfortunately you're going to tell her
this again, She's gonna do it again. And I think
the only way she's actually going to stop is when
you say, like, sorry, those dates are ones I told
you we're not a available and then you don't go
on the trip. I think this is when she's going
to have to learn the hard way.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, you're gonna have to actually follow through on not
going on some of these trips.

Speaker 7 (45:08):
Yeah, And I think that's been the hard part, is
like I actually have to even though she's paid for it,
even if she beat me to booking my own trip,
to still say no. And maybe that will finally be
when it sinks in What about timing? Do you have
any I think putting it in writing is a good idea,
but I guess trying to find like a good time
to talk about it, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Or I don't know any.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Yeah, exactly today, you should do this today, like start
crafting that email today so that because the holidays are
coming up and you're going to face this issue again
and you have to give her something that's close enough
to the holidays. It's perfect timing. Go in preparation for
the holidays this year. That's how you could start it out.
I'm giving you this advance warning. I do not want
you planning a vacation. Unfortunately, I've tried to express myself

(45:50):
over the years, and you're not listening to me. This
is what we're doing. We're spending Thanksgiving here or do
you know whatever? You decide that how you guys are
going to split like what you've been doing.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
And you can even give her the range of dates now,
you know, because I guarantee she's already looking.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
She's already looking.

Speaker 7 (46:06):
For all like she's already booked it.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
I get that, But that's if you want to go.
Do you want to go away with her this year?

Speaker 7 (46:12):
Not over Christmas? No? And I don't, And I think that, yeah,
Like I think from here on out, I'm just not going.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
And I think what's been tough is that like if
I miss.

Speaker 7 (46:23):
That or like she's kind of been like score keeping
or she kind of like tracks stuff. So it's like
for other family vacations too, She'll be like, well, you
can work remote over here.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
We'll pay for everything.

Speaker 7 (46:33):
Versus like kind of unders like she only accepts a
logistical reason for why I can't go. She doesn't really
accept like a I don't have the bandwidth for it
right now, you know what I mean, Like she wants
like a real issue versus like, yeah, I don't know
how to kindly explain, like it's not that I don't
want to see them, it's that I'm too I don't know,
like I just don't have the bandwidth or the energy

(46:54):
or I just like would rather spend that time doing
something else.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yeah, And I mean, you don't have to say that,
but you can just say that her controlling at like
nature is taking the fun out of these vacations for you. Also,
you know that it makes you want to withdraw or
retreat that you don't necessarily want to go because of
her insistence upon going.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
And I think the blinding migraines are a really solid
reason I do need to take that time to restore,
because that's when people are gone, that's when nobody needs me.
Like that, we find ourselves in that situation as well
as like people who don't live in the same place
as we grew up, it's sort of on us to
travel and we had to make the decision a few
years ago of like that's the only time we get
to rest for the year, so like we're going to

(47:35):
stay home and we do miss Christmas with our families.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Emily, what do you guys do with your families, your
respective families and the holidays.

Speaker 5 (47:42):
Yeah, I mean it's pretty similar. Like we we definitely
have to kind of like massage the situation a little
bit sometimes and like accommodate people. But at the same time,
I think traveling is exhausting and I think it can
be really hard on like your body, and so I
like being home for holidays and I kind of like
laid on the law with it a little bit. We'll

(48:03):
do like Okay, we'll do Thanksgiving with you, but we're
not doing Christmas or vice versa.

Speaker 6 (48:07):
You know.

Speaker 4 (48:07):
Yeah, it's kind of one of those things.

Speaker 5 (48:09):
It's like you kind of like you want to be
there and you want to like show that you love them,
but only to a certain extent. Like sometimes vacations can
be like super stressful, stressful and.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Hard, especially with your families.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
You know.

Speaker 5 (48:21):
Yeah, yeah, and like the family is important, but also
like if you you want to be like in a
good mood, and having good time with people when you're
on the vacation. You don't want to be like resentful
the whole time.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Also, you can also threatn like like if you don't
listen to me now, then our next step is going
to therapy together, you know what I mean. If you
don't if you don't care me now, we're gonna have
to go to a therapist, because that's what you're gonna
have to do.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
You're gonna have to have someone mediate.

Speaker 7 (48:43):
Mm hmmm, yeah, because I think that's what's the other
thing that's interesting about She gets to plan everything. She
picks the destination and all of that sort of stuff.
There's no buy in from anybody, you know, Like there
isn't like a back and forth. It's just this thing
that's decided for us. And it's just been hard to
yeah that, and I'm getting like very resentful of the
whole thing.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
So okay, well good luck. Let us know what happens. Yeah,
I will, even though we know what's going to happen
right away. We want the long term repercussions or the
long term outcome not repercussion.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Email us after you write the email, and then also
in January, when you've had to have her cancel your
part of the tree.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
Yeah, we'll see all right. Thanks Carle.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Well, thank you so much, Joe. So night's meet you.
Bye bye, Scarlett, thanks for calling in.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
Thanks bys nice.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
So let's go to another caller here. We've got Rachel
calling in, she says, Dear Chelsea. I'll start off by saying,
I have a difficult relationship with my brother's wife. They've
been together for over a decade, and our family has
stayed mom and just accepted the fact that she's not
going anywhere until I found out that they've been having
marital issues and she suggested a divorce. As much as

(49:49):
I want to celebrate this news, my heart broke for
my brother. Fast forward to now and I find out
they're supposedly doing great. How am I supposed to accept
this and act like I don't know about their past issues.
Everyone telling me to leave it alone because I'm not
supposed to even know this in the first place, But
I want to talk to.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
My brother about it. What should I do? Rachel?

Speaker 3 (50:07):
Hi?

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Rachel, this is our special guest, Emily Harrington's here today.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Hi.

Speaker 6 (50:12):
Hello, nice to meet you both.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Are you hiding in a closet? Right now calling us
I am perfect. Okay.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
So you heard that they were having problems from who
told you?

Speaker 6 (50:25):
I was praying?

Speaker 1 (50:26):
Okay, And so you've never heard anything from your brother
regarding that.

Speaker 6 (50:31):
I have not heard anything from the source, but I
have heard it from now multiple sources at this point.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
But you're and he's saying everything's fine with their marriage.

Speaker 6 (50:40):
Well, as of the latest update about a week ago,
things are back to not being great.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Okay, Okay, Well, I think what you should do is
very innocently let your brother know that you're there to
lean on if he needs that. But I would I
would assume, just from what you've told me and the
fact that you are in a closet, that your brother
knows how you feel about his wife and is probably
not going to come to you with any information. So

(51:08):
all you can do is just let him know that
you're there if he needs to talk to you about anything.
And I wouldn't even make it specific to his marriage.
I would just remind him that you're his sister and
that you love him, and that if there's anything he
ever needs or wants to talk about, that you're available,
and I would leave it at that.

Speaker 6 (51:26):
Okay. I've been thinking about doing that. I just worry
about by doing that, he's gonna know something's up, which then.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Yeah, but you're going to like even if no one
told you.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
You can tell when people are like not getting along
having a difficult time, Like you can just say I've
picked up on some things, you know, if he asks.

Speaker 6 (51:42):
Yeah, that's what I was kind of hoping towards. Like
the vibe seemed to be kind of weird.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
You can say something like that, but just don't be
you know, like when people aren't revealing things, it's hard
to go in on them hard, you know, like tell
me everything, Like it can't be gossip. It's his life,
So just be sensitive to the fact. Emily, do you
agree with that?

Speaker 2 (52:02):
What do you think?

Speaker 4 (52:03):
Yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker 5 (52:05):
I think being sensitive and being like, yeah, expressing that
you're you're there and you're supportive and you're a sounding
board and you're always available to chat is good. It's
hard because you kind of like never know what's really
going on in a relationship. Yeah, unless you're like in
the relationship.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Even then sometimes you don't know what's going on, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 6 (52:25):
And it just seems to be so like lip flop
back and forth, so I never know, like where they
stand one day, and so I'm like, when do I
approach it? What do I say? Yeah, even though I've
never said anything, You're right, like he knows my feelings
about his life.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Yeah, so it's better to come, especially if he's having
trouble with her like he might have. You know, Oh,
I can't talk to you because you already don't like her,
you know what I mean? You have to kind of
open up the avenue to say, like, anything is safe here,
it's okay. You don't have to gang up on whatever's
going on with her. It's like you just want to
be there to be a support and listen to him.
You don't have to go, yeah she's such a bitch,

(53:01):
or I can't believe her. When are you gonna leave her?
That's not the right approach. I think you should really
just be dialed into showing up for him and helping
him in any way that he feels comfortable asking for help,
because men are hard to help sometimes, you know, they
don't they're not effusive like women.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
We're not emotional. I mean, Emily and I were just
speaking about that.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
You know how it's so much healthier to be able
to express your emotions, and I think the people that
bring that out best in men are typically women.

Speaker 6 (53:29):
Yeah, yeah, especially my brother.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah. So we wish you well.

Speaker 6 (53:34):
Thank you, appreciate it was so nice meeting you both.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Nice to meet you too. Take care, take care.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Take care, okay, and we'll be right back with Emily Harrington. Okay,
and we're back with Emily Harrington from Girl Climber, which
is going to be available for everyone to see. It's
a fucking awesome movie displaying true grit, true strength, and
true determination three things and follow through. I think follow

(54:02):
through is the most important thing here. Setting a goal
and doing whatever it took to get there, and making
adjustments along the way after failing, after falling, literally falling,
and making those adjustments to actually achieve a goal. So
it's a great example and testament to a strength of mind,
you know, great fortitude. So thank you so much for

(54:25):
being our guest today, Emily. I loved the movie. I'm
going to watch it again and again and again. I
think it's just a great movie for every woman to watch. Yeah, agreed, Yeah,
thank you, well, thank you so much. Yes, take care
for having me on. Yes, absolutely, bye bye bye. Guys,
I just announced all my tour dates. They just went
on sale this week. It's called the High and Mighty Tour.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
I will be starting in February of next year.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
So I will be touring from February through June.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
So go get your tickets now.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
If you want good seats and you want to come
see me perform, I will be on the High and.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
My Do you want advice from Chelsea, Write into Dear
Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. Find full video episodes
of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at Dear Chelsea Pod.
Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive
producer Katherine law And be sure to check out our
merch at Chelseahandler dot com