My D*ck is Exhausted with Boom Boom "Jeff" Hiller

Jeff Hiller joins Chelsea in NY to talk about finally booking the role that launched him, why casting directors love to give you a soft ghost, and the *one* little problem that kept him from becoming a pastor.  Then: A couple wonder if they should be opening up or breaking up.  A gay son wants to get his mom to stop pushing her religious agenda on him.  And a daughter struggles when her mom gets remarried to her Uncle Daddy.

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Pick up Jeff’s book Actress of a Certain Age here!

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, Catherine, I Chelsea. Where in the world are you
right now?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm in London. I'm in London. I just finished Glastonbury.
I still have my voice intact, I have my body
parts intact. It was a wild, wild ride. I'm hoping well.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
I don't know what kind of photographs are out there,
but there might be.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Some things got pretty carried away, as one can imagine.
And I had never been to Glastonbury before and now
I know what it's all about, and it was ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
It is one of those ones you hear about always
being like very epic, very wild, but very fun.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I usually don't like like a music festival, just by
the nature of being outside and like the heat and
all those people, but Glastonbury just has a different ring
to it. And so I had to come up, and
I had so many friends that are going, and so yes,
we had a wild, wild time. And let's just say
I dosed a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (01:00):
People.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Oh, fantastic, fantastic with your LLC that you're no longer traveling.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
I don't travel with drugs. I don't travel anywhere with drugs.
I don't have drugs. I don't do drugs. It's free
as long as I'm in London. That's the story I'm
sticking to. And my name is Chelsea Handler, and I
am drug free. I only like alcohol.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Excellent. Well, we have a really fun guest today.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
He's so funny.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
You guys know him from Somebody Somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
He's hilarious and he has a new book that's out
and his name is well, his Instagram name is.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Boom Boom Hiller, and that's what I call him during
the entire episode. But his name is Jeff Hiller. Okay,
we're sitting here with Jeff. I want to call you
boom Boom.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
Do I want to call you boom boom because that's
your Instagram manst Okay, Boom Boom Hiller is here everybody,
for anybody who knows him on Instagram and for those
of you who know him from his hit show on
HBO with Bridget Everett, Somebody Somewhere, which is in its
third season.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Right, you're about to shoot your third season or is
it about to air?

Speaker 5 (01:54):
The third season already aired?

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, third season already aired. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Boom Boom, otherwise known as Jeff Hill, has a new
book called Actress of a certain age my twenty year
trail to Overnight Success. This is a very very very
funny book and there's a lot of highlights, so let's
get into it first. I want to talk about your
upbringing because you grew up in Texas, Okay as a

(02:18):
as a gay boy man. You were yet a man,
right yeah, yeah, and your childhood sounded I mean, your
school experience just made me want to start a group,
like I want to start a parenting group for parents
to make sure that their children don't treat other children
so horrendously. I wonder if there are actual parents out

(02:40):
there that are proud of having their children be bullies.

Speaker 5 (02:44):
I mean there's all kinds, right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Of course, there are all kinds, but it's just harrowing
to go through. I mean I was bullied. I was
a bully at certain points. Yeah, because I had to
flip the switch. I was like, fuck this shit, I'm
gonna be the fucking bully if you're going.

Speaker 5 (02:58):
To bully me. Oh my god, I think I'm I
think I'm feeling like support for bullies now. Yes, it's
so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, I need a support group for other bullies.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Actually, that's actually what I'm trying to get at So
thank you for helping me get there. But your childhood
in school and the torturing or the teasing and the
bullying just sounded terrible. It was, right, I mean, and
when you look back at that now, what do you
think do you think it helped build character?

Speaker 5 (03:27):
I mean, it probably did. I wouldn't say that that's
a reason to encourage it for your children, but I yeah,
I think it did. I think that's why I'm funny now.
I think that was like a self coping mechanism, you know,
to try and be like, you know, like let me
make you laugh so you won't hit me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Absolutely, You're like I have to find out.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Like in one scenior on the bleachers with somebody and
you're like, why do you keep kicking me?

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Why? And he says it's because of the way you
hold your books in school.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
So you were because you were holding them to your
chest like a like a little girl, and so they
were making fun of you for not holding your books
to the side like the way our strong and should
hold his bucks exactly.

Speaker 5 (04:01):
And to this day, I can't hold my I can't
if I ever hold myself like this, I'm like oh,
butch it out. You know, I have to put my hand.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Don't get a briefcase.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
You're gonna walk around holding it to your chest looking
like a real asshole.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
You know.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Well, I mean when they say it builds character, it's
always like, you know, I remember going through high school
and going through those periods of time where some girl
would call me up and be like, we're gonna kick
the fucking shit out of you tomorrow, and you're like,
my mom's like it's okay, everything's gonna be I'm like,
it doesn't sound like it's gonna be okay.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
And how is this charcter character building?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Like, I don't know how it builds character because it's
it seems like a nice pat answer for when the
bullying is happening.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
But I wonder if it really does build care.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
It definitely builds a resourcefulness for you.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
You deflect, deter, and wiggle.

Speaker 5 (04:46):
Yeah, and I and I mean whatever. I think it's
always nice to find the silver lining, but I wouldn't
it was it was really I think I could have
gotten sufficient character with just you know, eighty percent.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Less eighty percent less.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, when I was reading and I was traumatized for you,
I was like this, poor kid.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
I was like, no wonder. I mean no, I mean,
no wonder.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
I don't know what, but no wonder like this, just
no wonder.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
You're like this absolutely.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
So you grew up in Texas and you fantasized about
becoming a pastor, but that wasn't gonna work because big o'homo.

Speaker 5 (05:20):
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, And and I think, I mean, like,
thank god, I don't think I would have been happy
being a pastor, you know. And I feel like if
I'd been born straight, I probably would be a pastor
right now and have like, you know, a nice life,
I guess, but I think I would have I would
have not been able to perform in the way I
wanted to perform. So it's good. It's good I got
to be gay.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, you're still a church goer though, you like church. Yeah,
it's just kind of similar to your character on the show. Yes, yes,
kind of pastor like on the show as well.

Speaker 5 (05:47):
Yeah. Yeah, that's just a coincidence. They had written that.
They didn't write it for me.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
How funny.

Speaker 5 (05:52):
I know, it's not weird. Yeah yeah, yeah, that was
just a beautiful little coincidence. And I do like just
I don't go every Sunday or anything like that. You
don't know. And my husband's Jewish, so it's not like.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
So there's a conflict. Well, congratulations on getting a husband.
See everything worked out for you. Okay, that's all any
girl needs is a husband.

Speaker 5 (06:11):
It's true. It's all I've wanted since I was playing
with my dolls.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
The book talks about all sorts of things.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
It talks to you quote lots of different memoirs of
lots of different famous people, myself included.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
I believe I was in there.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
And you also go over lots of humiliating auditions and
on camera roles.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
So let's let's start with some of those.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
What do you think was your most I find auditioning
degrading also, like I find that to be an insult
to anyone's First of all, you such beautiful teeth. I
just want to say that I'm very much into teeth
and mouths, and I like when they.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Are put together well, and yours.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
I don't know if they were put together, if that
happened naturally, but they're nice.

Speaker 5 (06:53):
You know. I just went to the dentist and the
hygienessis was like, there's nothing to clean you must fly,
you must actually fly. And I was so proud.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
That is something to be proud of.

Speaker 5 (07:04):
I was like, yes, give me a star.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Every time I go to the dentist, she's like, oh
my god, when was the last time you were. I
was like, two fucking months ago, bitch, you told me
to come every two months.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
And then she's liked to come.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, And I don't know if she's trying to host
me because she knows I'll just pay for it because
I care so much about dental hygiene. But she'll be like, oh,
there's a lot of plaque built up. I'm like, there's
that's impossible. I just got here two months ago. I
haven't even eaten anything since I last saw you. How
could it be plat build up?

Speaker 5 (07:30):
That is shocking. Sometimes I actually just left one dentist
for another because I felt like the other dentist was
like shaking me down. It was like every time I
went there there was something else crazy.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
You're like you need an X ray?

Speaker 2 (07:42):
It's like, uh, do I I'm pretty sure my teeth
are set. Like, I'm not pretty sure you're not gonna
find a fucking cavity now I'm fifty.

Speaker 5 (07:49):
Actually exactly but but then I went to this new
one and they were like, no, we still need an extra,
and I was like, maybe they're all shaking us down,
but I to go back to auditioning. You know what
I feel like myself was deemed is so low that
I'm just like, I deserve to audition. So I'm like,
let me dance for you. Let me dance for you, daddy.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, but I mean some of your on camera work,
your early on camera work was as degrading as an audition.

Speaker 5 (08:15):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Let's talk about the one in the stall where you
had to basically well, there's two scenes that I'm thinking
of right off the top of my head. One is
the butthole waxing the butthole, and then the second one
was the stall.

Speaker 5 (08:27):
By the way, I don't want us to explain either
of these.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
I just want them to be like perfect right out there,
I mean, elaborate please, Okay, listeners, These are fun stories
that are within the book, along with many other fun stories,
but I'm going to focus.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Obviously on the most humiliating aspects.

Speaker 5 (08:42):
Which I truly appreciate. So I got hired to be
in this sitcom that was originally supposed to be a
straight woman and they sold it to Logo and they're like,
can you just make the lady a homo? And they're
like sure. And so then one of the scenes they
were like, want to spice it up, make it more gay.
So I was playing an esthetician and they were like,

(09:05):
we're going to have you do laser hair removal on
your client's butthole while you're doing this scene. And I
was like, so I have to just stare at an
actor's bear butthole. And they're like, he'll be wearing a
modesty bouch and.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
You're like, what am I going to be wearing a
fucking face mask? Who gives a shit what he's wearing.

Speaker 5 (09:26):
Also, a modesty puts just covers your balls and your
your dick. It doesn't cover the hole.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
So it was just like staring into an abyss. Exactly
what did you call it in your book?

Speaker 1 (09:37):
A chocolate cheerio?

Speaker 5 (09:39):
What did you leather cheerio?

Speaker 2 (09:43):
I want everyone to visualize a leather cheerio and if
you can't find one, get a mirror, put it on
the ground, take your pants down, and do a squad.

Speaker 4 (09:51):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Then there was.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Another scene in a bathroom where you had to simulate
you were like, you're giving a blowjob, right.

Speaker 5 (09:58):
I was hired as a gay hooker, and I was, yeah,
on my knees giving a blowjob. I mean, you know,
I wasn't. Actually it was for FX.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
For the purposes of the story.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
I would like to I would like to pretend that
you were actually giving a blowjob.

Speaker 5 (10:11):
Okay, I do anything for this job, anything. Yeah, but
I just had to yeah, stand up set, be on
my knees and hold this background actors, but you know,
like be going like this, and then I had to
go like peek around and say my one line. And
then they ended up not even using that footage. They

(10:32):
just had me come in and do audio.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
They had came in and having him loop the which
adr means audio for the movie when he's not even
on camera now, and then being directed by a guy
that's not the director.

Speaker 5 (10:44):
No, he was just like just because it was only
one line, and he was like, oh, they wanted pretty flamboyant,
and so I jokingly did it. The line was that's
just so wrong or that's just wrong, and I went
like that's just throng, and I was like joking like
like that, and he's like, give us perfect, thank you
when I was done.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
God, it's so humiliating, right, I mean, this business is
so fucked up.

Speaker 5 (11:07):
I know it is.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
It's unbelievable the things that people have to go through.

Speaker 5 (11:11):
I mean, but also if that show had called me back,
I would have gone on hard.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Of course, of course, you whatever if they call it.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, I mean, you know what I mean, there's not
a lot to stop you. You talk a lot about,
you know, achieving success and how long it's taken you,
and that you would always kind of use as a
barometer other people's like when it was stupid. Yes, well
it's not, because I think it's very common. You know,
people have these timelines and everything. People get very rigid
about when they're going to achieve certain things in their life,

(11:36):
like when am I going to be successful? I remember
always looking at Jennifer Aniston that she got friends when
she was thirty two years old. So I related to
this part of your book because I always thought, as
long as by thirty two, if I've got my I
haven't until I'm thirty two, Like I always had that
in my head based on her success.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, which is you know, so silly and so stupid.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
But then I would move the lines.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, of course, because you get older and you're like,
why am I still fucking waiting table?

Speaker 1 (12:00):
You're like, oh my god, how long is this going
to go on?

Speaker 4 (12:03):
I know?

Speaker 5 (12:03):
And I was in LA for pilot season and I
heard a podcast with Megan Malaley and Nick Offerman and
they were like, we both got our shows at thirty nine.
And I was thirty nine, and I was like, I've
got one pilot season left, and of course nobody wants
to hire you when you're like, please, please hoire me.
I've only got this one, you see, and left.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, So talk about how somebody somewhere came along that
really just came right out. It came right for you,
it did. It's i mean, a perfect role for you.

Speaker 6 (12:29):
I know.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
After reading your book, I'm like, this is kind of
exactly who this character is.

Speaker 5 (12:33):
I know. And it was again it was like just
whatever fate. I have a not a friend a person.
I know. I write about this in the last chapter,
but it's like a sponsor, No, just a frind of me,
I think, is more of.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
The word front of me, okay.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
Or not even a friend of me, just someone I'm like, oh,
what what are you? Doing anyway.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
This person told me a friend that you don't like.
It's a friend that you don't like. Let's just say
what it is. We all have them.

Speaker 5 (12:59):
This person said to me, the reason you've got your
sitcom is because your mom died and so like all
of her good energy went out in the world and.

Speaker 4 (13:06):
Like helped you.

Speaker 5 (13:07):
Yeah, and part of me is like, what are you
talking about? Also, like, don't say that to people are
gonna kill their mom to get a sitcom.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
But I do kind of feel like there is some
truth to that, because it does you mean somebody somewhere. Yeah,
that doesn't feel like a sitcom to me, So that's
where you threw me out.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
That doesn't feel like a sitcom. I think. I feel
like sitcoms.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
I think of like multi cam live audience, you know
what a dream left to Well, for you it would
be because you're gay, But for me, that's like I
fucking hate that shit, and I love live audience because
I stay I'm a stand up but I I like cameras.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
And like you're own multicam did I barely? I mean
it was it was about.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
One of my books and then they forced me to
be in it, and it was just not it was
not running on all cylinders, that's for sure. That's not
my world. Like, I have to be real. I can't
be like that, you know.

Speaker 5 (13:54):
What I mean.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
I can't be like doing things fifty times and over,
you know, like in front of a live audience, like
I find that very cheesy. Yeah, there's no improvisation like
I like to be able to improvise. So a SI
PAM is not for me. That's not my bucket. In casey,
you haven't fucking caught on. Okay.

Speaker 5 (14:13):
See that's what's so great about you is you know
yourself so well.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
Don't you know yourself well at this age? How old
are you right now?

Speaker 5 (14:21):
I'm forty nine.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay, I'm fifty. I just turned fifty, so we're in
the same age.

Speaker 5 (14:24):
Yeah, exactly, so I would.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Don't you think you know yourself really well?

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Too?

Speaker 5 (14:28):
I guess I'm not as emphatic about it.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Do you think that you're actively learning new things about yourself?

Speaker 5 (14:35):
I mean it's not as frequent that I'm learning something
you know, fairly shocking about myself as it was in
like your twenties or something.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
But yeah, what was something that you found out about
yourself in your twenties.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
That shocked you well that.

Speaker 5 (14:47):
I was fine with rejection because I told my mom
I wanted to be an actor and She's like, oh,
you could never handle the rejection. I was just like okay.
And then and then I started doing it, and I
was like, this is nothing compared to getting bullied in
high school or whatever.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
Shit.

Speaker 5 (15:01):
It was like a soft ghost where they never tell
me if.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
I got it, yeah, fine, rather than getting hit in
the head with a fucking trapper keeper. Absolutely, I would
choose that any day of the week. Excuse me, I
just quiet burped just for our guests. I love that
boom Boom is your Instagram name because I call everything
a boom boom. Like when I say lower the volume,
I always go lower it one boom boom. Like if
I'm talking to someone about a remote, I always say, oh,

(15:26):
did you like if someone farts, ago, is that a boom?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Did you make a boom boom?

Speaker 2 (15:29):
And I mean boom boom is applicable to like if
my brass strap is like, I'll say, like, can you
like tighten it?

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Like if they're getting me dressed, I'll say, can you
tighten it? One boom boom?

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Like I use boom boom all the time. So I
just love that that's your Instagram name. That was first
drew me to you.

Speaker 5 (15:46):
Well, I feel like when I started it it was
because whenever anybody would say anything slightly sexy, I'd be like,
boom boom.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
But then recently you realize how unsexy that is.

Speaker 5 (15:56):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And also people told me that a
lot of a lot of when people were children, a
lot of parents called taking a crap a boom boom
boom boom.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, like I call it, it should do be, but
there is a boom boom factor to that too.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
I didn't want to throw your name and shit right there.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
I actually left that part out, but you brought it back,
so good for you.

Speaker 4 (16:18):
Thanks.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Yeah, still learning about myself, Yeah, you're still learning.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
So we all are still talk to me now about
the success of being on this show for three seasons,
what it means to you, about your relationship with Bridget,
whom I love, and.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Of course you guys mean Bridget Everett, who Jeff stars
with on Somebody Somewhere.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Bridget once told me we were on the vineyard, Martha's
vineyard at Amy Schumer's house, and she told me one
of the funniest sex stories I've ever heard, one of
the most enthralling sex stories I've ever heard, and I
could not ever get it out of my mind. But
I will leave that to tell share on her own.
But tell me about working with her. Tell me about
working on the show.

Speaker 5 (16:54):
Well, I was like, I admired her. I was like,
I was kind of like the character, and then I
was like obsessed with her. I just I always went
and saw her shows in New York and stuff. And
then she just out of the blue emailed me and said,
would you be would you be willing to audition for
my HBO show? And I was like temping. I was like, yeah,
I guess I'll you know, dangne to do it. And

(17:17):
I read the character and I was like, oh, you know,
this is me. I think she wrote this for me.
And they were like, no, we didn't. We didn't.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
They didn't, No, they didn't.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
No.

Speaker 5 (17:25):
And so many people have told me that they also
auditioned for it, and oh wow, yeah, so I know
what I mean. It doesn't matter. I got it.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, it doesn't matter. Really. We need to look forward,
not in the rear view.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
But you used to always go see her perform right,
and her like cabaret is she performs cabaret right.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
I don't want to but it's like, it's not like
she's incredible.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
She was an incredible boy, wild.

Speaker 5 (17:48):
And insane and funny, really really really like legit hilarious, funny,
not like it's not like you know, I once heard
this song and it's it's really yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
I had to go see somebody do beret once and
I honestly could not believe it.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
I did. I went once.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
It was a friend, and I couldn't stay until the
end because I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Face her afterward.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
It was just the opposite of everything that I respond to.
That's exactly respect, It's exactly what you just did right there,
like this talking slash singing to the audience.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
I am not on board for that at all.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
I want to circle back to No, that's not Bridget
at all. Bridget is a force and has her own
thing going. She's very unique. I want to circle back
to learning more about yourself at our age, because I
think I was thinking about this the other day, like
I heard something about a friend and I and I
wasn't involved at all, but I'm an interloper. I like
to involve myself, you know, respect, and it was it

(18:46):
was an issue that I was like, you can't do that.
It's bullying, it's mean to this person, blah blah blah.
And I had overheard it, and I said, I'd overheard
it from some friends.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
I'm like, I'm going to say something to her.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I have to, and they both just kind of looked
at me and went, well, it's really none of your busines,
but of course you're going to do it. And I
was like, because she's gonna hear it from me, and
she's going to know that it's serious. Like if I
heard this and I was hesitant to even get involved,
but I was like, no, actually, she needs to hear
it from me because I know she's going to take
it seriously from me rather than my group of friends
that were talking to her. Like there's a little bit

(19:17):
more of a you know, dynamic between us, which is
I know that she would listen. And I thought, this
is exactly the kind of thing that you that you do, Chelsea,
like I thought before I was like I was. There
was a moment of hesitation and I said, maybe you
don't get involved, and I go, no, no, no, this is
actually like important to say out of respect for all women,
Like it was one of those things, and when I

(19:38):
did it, it was a reminder of who I am,
you know what I mean? Like that, Yes, you're always
going to do that. You're always going to do the
right thing. You're always going to be the person that
says the uncomfortable thing because it's important, not just to
fucking swing my dick around. It has nothing to do
with that. I'd rather not swing my dick around. My
dick is exhausted. Will you name this episode my dick
is exhausted?

Speaker 5 (19:58):
It was you can actually agree same, my dick is
also exhausted. But I think that the moment of self
reflection before you did it, that's what's important, and that's
where it's growth.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, that's what's important.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
But it's also the other side of it was how
reliable I am to myself and to my car, Like
you know what I mean, Like, I'm not gonna let
things fall under like sweet be swept under the rug.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I'm not that personality. I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
I'm always going to stand up when something needs to
be said on behalf of a person, an underdog, a woman, whomever,
you know what I mean, and I like that about myself,
and sometimes it is being an interloper. But guess what
the net result was exactly what I wanted it to be.
Where this woman was like, I can't believe you heard this.
I can't believe anyone said that. I can't believe I
said that. I'm so embarrassed that you know about this.
And I'm like, I know, but like, you can't do

(20:47):
stuff like that's other women like it's so uncool, especially
when you have a daughter, you know. So it was
like one of those moments where I was really happy
I did it and I was reminded of my reliability.
And I don't know why I'm bringing this up, but
I mean, I'm just talking about learning and growing with yourself.
You kind of start to settle into your personality and
then while there are things you always want to change,

(21:10):
there are also things we should remind ourselves that we
like about ourselves.

Speaker 5 (21:13):
Yes, exactly, but I think also if you hadn't thought, wait,
is this something I want to do, then I don't
think you would have known that either exactly. And that's
about the growth too, And I like, my big thing
is I want to have compassion for everyone and I
just made this realization recently where and I always say
for everyone, and in my mind that means like you know,

(21:34):
Donald Trump or whatever, like you know, like even though
he is a press to people and groups, including groups
I'm a member of. But I realized, like, I'm not
ever compassionate to me yourself. Yeah, And that was like
a thing that I just realized about myself and think
and now I'm like really being active to be like
I've journaled for years and when I was writing this

(21:56):
book and I go back and look at my journal,
I was like, Jesus, I'm the most mean to myself.
I mean, it was just like stupid Jeff. If I
found this from someone else, I would have been like,
what is wrong with this person? Mentally, like why they're
so obsessed with me? And I found that anyway. So
that's like a thing where I'm like, Okay, I'm growing.

(22:17):
And it's about self reflection and it's about like taking
that little moment to be like wait, who are you,
what are you doing this for? Why are you doing this?
And then you can feel good about being the angeloper
versus yes whips I interloped with.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, I used to interlope too much.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Like when I wasn't involved and it wasn't my friends,
I would be a stranger on the street, and I
have a problem with that. So but I've basically modulated
my behavior. Is that the word is there any way
we can make.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
It a little cooler in here.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Jeff took his pants off, and I am now I
feel like I'm going through perimenopause for the second time.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Turn it down one boom boom. I like your mustard socks. Oh,
thank you, I mean I think I do. I'm just
thank you.

Speaker 5 (23:00):
I like that. Is that aways being truthful?

Speaker 2 (23:04):
I'm digesting them. But I like the outfit that you've
put together. It's like an ensemble peace and I like it.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
I like it.

Speaker 4 (23:11):
Well.

Speaker 5 (23:11):
I read on camera and I was like, make it cute.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, that feels so good already. Thanks. I am very
specific about air conditioning. I want it.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
I mean I want it all the time. I want
it at night, I want it during the day. I
feel like when there's not circulate, like especially if I'm
on stage, like the theater has to.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Be fucking cold.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
Well, and especially to do comedy. People don't want to
laugh when it's like swampy.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Well, some people don't mind that. Some people just sit
and sweat and they don't care. And you know what
I call those people New Yorkers in the summertime, they're
sitting and sweating and walking through this like, you know,
there's something really gross about New York with this steam
coming up in the summertime from the subways and from
the sores when it's already hot, and it's just like
cement mixing in the air with.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Like dog shit and fucking no sweet home, Like it
doesn't even have to be summer.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Like I was there a couple of weeks ago in
the spring, like in April, and it was like fifty
degrees and I'm sweating.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
I was just like, why, yes, it so grow?

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Was the air that sounds like Perry metopause, Catherine, there
you go. I'm going through fifty degrees and sweating sounds
like something. How long have you been married?

Speaker 5 (24:20):
I don't know how long married, but seventeen years together?

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Seventeen years together? And what does your husband do for
a living?

Speaker 5 (24:26):
He's a visual artist, okay, and he teaches.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
A visual art And how did you know that he
was the person that you wanted to marry?

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Well, when we got the legal were the only person
that asked you.

Speaker 5 (24:39):
He's exactly my type. Willing. When we had our first date,
he had volunteered at a shelter for women at a
synagogue the night before, and I had volunteered at a
shelter for men at a Lutheran church the night before,
and it just felt too cute, really good, really really sweet. Yeah,

(25:01):
it felt very like ordained or what have you.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, I mean two volunteers. What are the chances of that?

Speaker 5 (25:08):
Well, listen, when you're dating in New York City, it's
pretty rare.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, I would be pretty rare. Do you still volunteer?

Speaker 5 (25:13):
Yeah? I don't, not with that same shelter anymore, but
yes I do.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Oh good for you, I always Yeah, I wish I
was someone who volunteered.

Speaker 5 (25:22):
Well, you can't, I mean you, yeah, I could.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I could. You could volunteer.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Barack Obama and Michelle Obama go to soup kitchens and volunteer.

Speaker 5 (25:29):
Not every week or anything.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
No, they don't, but it would be a nice thing
to do.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
I like to think I'm doing good things in other ways,
you know, But who cares about being famous? I'm not
talking about that aspect of things of volunteering. You know,
you either can volunteer or not. It really doesn't matter
who you are. Yeah, and shout out to all the
famous people who are doing it.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
And not getting.

Speaker 5 (25:52):
Photographs and volunteering. Yeah, it doesn't even count. There's no camera.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
I don't know, what's something that you've learned about from
being married for this or being together with someone for
seventeen years? What's something that you've learned about yourself? Did
you know you would be this good in a relationship?

Speaker 5 (26:10):
I mean, am I good? I don't know. I mean,
like it just lasts because you don't leave it. It's
not like I mean, I guess the thing that I
learned is like you do have to work at it.
You do have to like check in with people, and
there can be times when you're like, oh man, I
really have been sort of neglecting my spousal duties. That
sounds like oral.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
I mean, like I'm not just saying his butthole? Is
that what you meant to say?

Speaker 5 (26:35):
Exactly? No, just like I'm busy at my career and
I'm you know, I'm doing press for this book right now,
and so like we have a day every Saturday that
we is like that's a sacred day. We can't If
something really big comes up, we can say yes to it,
but we need to like check in with the other
and stuff like that. Yeah, and that's the kind of

(26:56):
thing that I really would not have done.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Sure, Yeah exactly, that you would have to carve out
that kind.

Speaker 5 (27:02):
Of time, Yeah exactly, and that like I kind of
just thought it would all just happen.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Organically, Yeah, I think. But it is important to know
that relationships take work.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
You're not just gonna you know, people have this idea,
especially young dumb girls, have this idea like they're gonna
get married and everything's just going to come together, and
it's like you're not taking into account any of the
pitfalls of a long term relationship and what can happen
and all of the drama that goes along with like
life changes and job changes and city changes. Every relationship

(27:32):
takes work, even friendships take work, exactly during certain times,
you know, hopefully it's not all work, but yeah, I
mean right.

Speaker 5 (27:39):
And occasionally there's annoying. Like sometimes I think that's a
surprise too, is that like sometimes I get annoyed by him,
which like, of course, like you get annoyed by your roommate.
Why wouldn't get annoyed by the person who's not only
in your apartment but in your bed? And you just
have to think, like, well, first of all, we because
I'm a real people pleaser. So for a lot of
the beginning of a relationship, I just never said like,

(28:00):
it bugs me when you do whatever. And so that's
the big thing that's been for me has been has
been like, Okay, is this something that is worth saying?
I want? You know, I do I callow Chelsea? Do
I say it? And that's been a really big learning
curve and it needed a lot.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Of like therapy and yeah, no, I could relate to
that completely. Oh really yeah, because I used.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
To just pop off and now it's more like discerning.
I'm more discerning and it's more focused and targeted. Right,
And I used to just suppress, right, I would now
know I have the opposite explode explode explode You're suppress suppressed,
were opposite.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Do you know what number you are on the enneagram?
Do you know what an anagram?

Speaker 5 (28:39):
Three wing two?

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Oh, okay, three wing two, I'm in two three.

Speaker 5 (28:44):
Oh yeah, it's like oh that, yeah, that makes total sense.
I'm just getting into the enneogram and I love it.
But you know when I first found out, I was
a three in college. When I was in my Christian college,
I took a class called Locations and Voices, and our
campus pastor gave us the enneagram test.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Wow, really rising, Yeah, that sounds like modern, very modern,
because I feel like the enneagram is like a new thing.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
I mean, but I don't know why I think that.

Speaker 5 (29:13):
Well, it was at least around in nineteen ninety three
or four.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
It was that's when the Internet was invented by Al
Gore nineteen ninety four.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Do you remember that?

Speaker 5 (29:20):
That's like the thinks how.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
We're going to take a break and we'll be right
back with Jeff Hiller, And we're back with Boom boom
Jeff Hiller. He is the author of his latest book, well,
his only book. It's called Actress of a Certain Age,
My twenty year trail to overnight success.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Let's put him on the New York Times bestseller list.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Okay, guys, let's all make sure we order a copy
to support him.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
And how funny this book is. Because I read it,
you're going to laugh. It's worth it.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
We all need something to escape, and we all need
to be laughing a lot more as far as I'm concerned. Okay,
we're going to take some callers and we're going to
give it. Okay, Yeah, Catherine, what.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Do we have in store for us?

Speaker 6 (30:03):
Well?

Speaker 3 (30:04):
I love that you called him boom boom Jeff Hiller,
like the jeff Is in quotes.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
That's that's my favorite. Yeah, I've for made the Jeff
is in quotes. It's actually boom boom Hiller.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Well, our first question comes from Rob. He says, help,
I'm a liberal gay man and my mom won't stop
sending me bibles. Dear Chelsea, I'm a thirty six year
old gay man who's been out and proud for fourteen
plus years. I come from a very evangelical, Republican Midwestern family,
and I'm the polar opposite of them all. I still
identify as Christian, but in a more new agy spiritual way.

(30:35):
I can count on one hand how many times in
the past decade I've seen the inside of a church,
and it was probably for a wedding or a funeral,
or because it's my polling place and I was voting
blue down the ballot. I'm super progressive, and my family
knows this about me as I'm extremely outspoken about it. Overall,
they've been very loving and accepting of who I am.
They've really come a long way. However, my mom especially

(30:56):
continues to shove religion down my throat. I have more
Bibles than I possibly know what to do with. Yet,
for my last birthday, she sent me another one. I
wanted to be like, thanks, let me just go add
this to the stack of other Bibles you've sent me
over the years. A couple of years ago, for the
Fourth of July, she sent me a bunch of Americana.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Shit to put around my house, including.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
But not limited to, a red, white and blue cross
that says God Bless America.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Barf.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
Basically, any opportunity she gets, she sends me some Christian
craft that I don't need or want. It doesn't help
that she works at hobby goddamn lobby and gets a discount.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
I know she's coming from a loving place.

Speaker 3 (31:29):
And means well, but I swear to God, if I
get one more effing Bible or Christian nickknack and the mail,
I'm going to scream, please help rob.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
First of all, why are people sending Bibles?

Speaker 4 (31:39):
Like?

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Is there new information coming out in the Bible. Is
there a new edition or something.

Speaker 5 (31:43):
I think for certain Christian folks like a different there
might be a different translation, or have like a.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Nice cover, or what are we translating it from? What
language was it originally written? Hebrew is the Old Testament,
Greek is the new Okay Hebrew and Greek? Okay, Yeah,
I feel like Bibles are wrapped, you know what I mean?
Like it's enough, we get it and they're out there.
There's enough out there. We don't need to be re

(32:09):
interpreting them. It's like, stop it with this. First of all,
you have to have a very direct conversation with your mother.
I would say, she's obviously a Bible thumper, and she's
going to be very upset that you don't want this.
So you have to think of a very gentle way
to just say I'm up to my ears and fucking
Bibles and I need you to back up. But I
do think it's worth saying that too. What do you
think I mean you come from a religious background.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (32:30):
It's true, and I'm also like from the because my
mom also was very much into church and stuff and
she and I think like the more important thing is
that she's supportive outside of the gift giving section, which
I think is sort of obviously probably really difficult for
her and beautiful that she does that. But I think
that what you're saying is right. A polite, tactful way

(32:52):
of saying I think I'm good on Bibles is maybe enough.
But if she sends you fourth of July stepp like,
I don't know, you know, sometimes people just you get
a gift from your nana and you're like, this is
not something I'm ever gonna.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Maybe you could just collect all of her stuff and
give it to someone like that, you know, like someone
in your neighborhood, like regift it, drop it off in
front of someone tells who you know will appreciate it,
and then you take the conversation you you know, I mean,
it's worth having a conversation anyway, because I don't think your.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Mom's gonna listen.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
She's gonna probably it will probably like tamp it down
a bit, all of the things you're getting, but she'll
probably continue to send. If she works at a Holly lobby, Like,
it sounds like you're gonna get gifts.

Speaker 5 (33:32):
Regardless that's her type or taste.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, so you're gonna have to think of a way
to like repurpose her gifts, you know what I mean,
so that you can deal with it head on, but
then also deal with the reality that you're gonna continue
to get those gifts because mothers don't really listen to
their children exactly.

Speaker 5 (33:47):
And is this an issue that you're willing to have
like a knockdown drag out for.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Oh, it's not like that. This is a light question.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
We don't have to of course, it's not so serious,
but it is annoying to I mean, I would be
pissed if I were getting this, but I didn't grow
up in an religious background, so I have no history
of this, So I would be pissed because it would
be coming out of the fucking blue as much confused
as Oh my god, I just love the idea of
me opening up a Bible even in hotel rooms when

(34:15):
I see one, I'm annoyed. I'm like, why don't push
that on me? But yeah, it's not a serious situation,
but you should. You can say something to your mom
absolutely offhandedly.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
I wonder if you could say like that when you
sent me for my last birthday was my favorite. I
don't need any more options, like.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, about that.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
That's like a mislead and I don't think that works
with religious people in direct.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, that's probably true, all right, Rob well bred?

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Do we have Timothy.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Shalli May that's okay crazy? He calls in every week.
It's like and it's always about Kylie Jenner. It's so
embarrassing every week and it's like, how she hasn't heard
about this at all yet, It's amazing.

Speaker 5 (34:53):
He's always just like, uh, my girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Do you believe that those two are together? When you
see Timothy Shallaby and Ken.

Speaker 5 (35:01):
Is it kindler Kylie?

Speaker 2 (35:03):
I don't know, it's Kylie. Yeh oh, never mind that.
We'll get back to that.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
We get to that. We have a caller. I can see.
We're so sorry we got sidetracked.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Well, Timothy says. His subject line is open relationship or
break up. Dear Chelsea, my boyfriend of a little over
a year and I recently moved to the Netherlands from
South Africa. Our sex life has never been great, but
we really love each other and we make a great team,
although recently we've been having lots of disagreements. The move

(35:33):
and adapting to a new country has understandably put a
lot of pressure on the relationship. I'm generally a happy
person and I'm committed to self improvement, et cetera. But
my boyfriend is not on the same page with me
about that. I recently started to feel like we're not
on the same page regarding our personal growth and emotional
maturity in general. My boyfriend brought up the option of
trying an open relationship, which I'm happy to do because

(35:54):
our sex life is basically non existent. Although this could
be really good for us, I also feel like it
could be the beginning of the end. And all of
these things have made me think about the future of
our relationship and if I want to continue with it
at all. What makes things even more tricky is that
I'm moved over on his visa, so I'm pretty sure
I would have to leave the country if we broke up,
which would suck because it wasn't easy to get here

(36:14):
in the first place. I love him dearly and he's
very important to me, but I feel like he needs
to do a lot of growing and I don't know
if I should be a part of that.

Speaker 5 (36:21):
Please help. By Timothy.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Hi Timothy, this is our special guest today, Jeff Hiller. Hikay,
you can call him boom boom boom. Right, that's another
thing I call boom boom's penises. I always go, oh,
look at it, he's gotta he Or I'll say to
a friend like if I I'll be like tod eve
a nice boom boom.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
So boom boom is just a great word for everything
I think.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
So, Okay, what are you thinking in terms of if
this relationship It sounds like this relationship is coming to
a head, and that's okay, But I just want to
talk about your like actual logistics, like for living, Like
if you guys do break up, what are you prepared
to do?

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Are you going to go back to South Africa?

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Like if that, if this is a real conversation, then
we should we talk about those things.

Speaker 4 (37:05):
Yeah. So I wasn't exactly sure how it worked because
I've moved over on his visa, so I did a
little bit of digging. So it does seem like if
we break up, then I wouldn't have any other choice
but to go back to South Africa unless we find
some way to work around that. But legally that is

(37:26):
what will have to happen.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Are you guys legally married?

Speaker 4 (37:30):
No? No, No, we're just like dating.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
And you can bring somebody over on your visa if
you're dating them.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah, okay, what about and then moving back to South
Africa an option?

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Like, how do you feel about that?

Speaker 4 (37:46):
Crazy about it? Because I mean I obviously sold all
my stuff there, used all my savings and everything to
move here. It was very stressful. We just kind of
like rebuilt our life and like create a little home here.
So I mean you were looking forward to like traveling
because it's so much easier to travel when you're in

(38:09):
living Europe. And I found a job here, which is
also not very easy for.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Okay, Okay, so yeah, so ideally you want to stick
around there.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Is your boyfriend open to like couple's counseling.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
I'm trying to get him to just see a therapist himself,
but he he's not very open to the idea. I
keep bringing it up because I've been in therapy for
like ten years, so I know the benefits of it
and I know he needs it. Like the other day,
he asked me something in shame bless him. He's very sweet,

(38:44):
but he asked me, do you think trauma from your
childhood plays over into your adult life? And I was like, uh, Yeah,
that's like exactly what happens.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah, so he's not really.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
He hasn't been in therapy, so he doesn't know the
benefits from it.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Is he younger?

Speaker 4 (39:05):
He's only three years younger than I am, but I
feel like there's quite a difference in emotional maturity between us.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
He would he is he someone who would read a book,
like if you brought home a book based on like
about what he had the question he asked you and said, oh,
I found this at the bookstore. Here's a book on
childhood trauma. I thought you might be interested in this.
Do you think he would read that?

Speaker 4 (39:28):
Yeah, I could try that, Like I read a lot
of self out books. So then it kind of caught
on with him.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Oh well that's something that's not nothing.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. No, he's definitely like looking into
himself a little bit more. But like I don't really
want to, Like, leaving him is not really what I
want to do. I really, so then don't.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
So then don't You're not there. You're not there yet.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
And and right now I think what you should focus
is on, like what do you how do you feel
about open relationships?

Speaker 1 (40:01):
What's your like?

Speaker 5 (40:02):
Well, I mean I feel like, as long as both
partners are into it, which it sounds like you are,
then why not I mean, I think it sounds like
you find your own relationship.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
I think it sounds like an opportunity for him to
grow up a little bit too, having an open relationship,
Because when you have an open relationship, like what I
would suggest is creating, like to have parameters and have
boundaries and have an understanding about how much information you
both want, how much information you both need. Those kinds
of adult conversations are going to lead to more intense

(40:30):
conversations about emotions and about and like even though you're
a little bit farther along on like an emotional maturity level,
it's good to as a practice have conversations like that
where you're including him, like you're introducing a subject matter, like, Okay,
what are the rules going to be?

Speaker 1 (40:47):
How are we going to feel? What if I feel
emotionally left out?

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Is it okay for me to come to and say, actually,
I don't feel comfortable with this, Like you can have
adult conversations that kind of pull him into a more
mature position.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 5 (41:02):
And the boundaries that you said at the top don't
have to necessarily be constant. You know, you can say like, oh,
actually I thought I was okay with that thing, but
I'm not or whatever.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah, like it's actually I'm like, this whole open relationship
thing is actually an opportunity for you to have more
depth within your relationship. So I would say that that
to go for it. I mean, you're kind of at
your wits end. I ideally what you want to do
is get him into therapy so that he could start
having some real conversations. But until that can happen, I

(41:33):
would really share the books you're reading. I would share
the topics that you're that you're interested in, like the
things that you're reading about self help or childhood trauma,
and not in a patronizing way as a way to
like bounce it off of him, like what do you
think about this?

Speaker 1 (41:49):
I read this, I'm not sure I agree with this?
Do you agree with this? What do you think about this?

Speaker 2 (41:54):
You know, just try to engage him a little bit
more in what you're interested in, and even if he's
not there yet, just introduced the subject matters, you know
what I mean. So there are there are catchphrases he's
heard childhood trauma. Does that roll over into your adult life? Like,
that's good that he said that sentence, regardless of whether
he understands it.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
Yeah, fair enough. Just on the open relationship thing, I
have a little bit of an update. After going back
and forth, he actually told me so he wants to
try it. This was like two weeks ago. So we
were like, yeah, cool, let's go out, let's go try it,
let's go have fun. So we went to a few
bars in Amsterdam, and towards the end of the night,

(42:36):
we were both standing kind of outside and then this
really attractive guy came up and like just fully kissed
me on the mouth and it lasted for like one
and a half seconds, and then I pushed him away
because I knew this was going to be a problem,
And I looked over at my boyfriend and he was
not even looking at me, didn't speak to me. And
then on our way home, he was just like, I

(42:58):
can't do this, can't handle you being intimate with anyone
else than me. Like then, it was just such a
It's such and been such an emotional rollercoaster from him
being on board with it and they not, and then
yes and then no. So currently it's no, but okay,
I feel like it's gonna come up again at some point.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, but these are also opportunities to have more conversations
around the subject matter of having an open relationship, talking
about boundaries, talking about intimacy, talking about what doesn't feel right,
like would it feel better if you weren't kissing someone,
if you were just having sex with them, Like really
introducing all of these because the more you can get
him talking, the more that.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
He's going to open up emotionally.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
And I know it's not your job, but if you're
in this relationship and you're committed to staying in the Netherlands,
then you kind of have to make this effort.

Speaker 5 (43:49):
But I would also say, like being in a relationship
that's not right is not worth not moving back to
South Africa.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Maybe see if there's like another plan you can do
with your work, if there even if it takes a
lot little bit of time, just to have that as
sort of a backup plan.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Yeah, I mean, you've got one footed out the door,
you know, I mean clearly, so I know it's not
a desirable place to be, but I would say to
exhaust all your efforts before you shut the door. For
obviously multiple reasons, and one of those being geographic.

Speaker 4 (44:19):
Yeah, I think we we we have had a problem
of just being like honest with each other, having honest conversations,
saying how we feel, and that's only recently been really
talked about. So yeah, it's it's it's a lot of
things that we're going through at the moment, but our
six life is like it's been a problem for a while.

Speaker 5 (44:42):
So how long have you been together?

Speaker 4 (44:45):
Only a year and a half, But it's been like
a problem kind of from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
What's the problem?

Speaker 4 (44:52):
So the problem is mostly with me. I've kind of
like lost my physical attraction towards him. Like I really
love him, there's no doubt in my mind about that.
But I just can't get that physical attraction back, and
I feel really guilty about it. And every time like

(45:13):
I can see him trying to, like, you know, engage,
I feel really guilty and I feel bad, but I
don't really know what to do about it.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Can you actually physically have sex with him?

Speaker 5 (45:24):
Or you can't?

Speaker 4 (45:25):
I really don't want to.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
Okay, I don't mean to laugh, but I mean, it
really sounds like you're not in this relationship anymore.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
It sounds like it's your friend.

Speaker 4 (45:37):
I know it feels like I'm yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Okay, let me ask you is he where is he
in your relationship?

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Like if you said, like, okay, this is our last
ditch effort, I'm not feeling it. We're not feeling it,
we're not in sync. I really want us to go
to therapy as our kind of like last effort.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
What would he say to that.

Speaker 4 (45:56):
I think it would It might be open to it.
I just wanted him to go to therapy first a
little bit, just so you can.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah, but don't make it about him. Make it about you.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
The only way to get someone to go to therapy
is to make it about you. You have a problem
with your sex, that's a perfect thing, like, hey, i'd
love to figure this out. He knows that you're having
trouble with sexually, right, he's part of this equation, right, And.

Speaker 5 (46:18):
Some couple's therapy can demystify individual therapy, so it might
actually be a perfect way to.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Introduce him to Oh that's extra the excellent yes very
well said, that's exactly right. You know, you get in
there because it's your problem, Like I want to work
on our sex life. I know this is my issue,
you know, take responsibility and then that it becomes like
less of a less intimidating for him to go into
a therapy session when you're framing it that it's more
about you.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
Yeah, that's that's a very good idea. I think that's okay.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
And then hopefully that can lead into single therapy. Like
Jeff said, you know, hopefully with his exposure to therapy,
he'll like it. So I think your job is to
find a couple, get him to agree to that, Try
to tell him that you really want to work your
relationship and that you know.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
You're aware of the issue.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
We're going to have an open relationship now you don't
want to he's got jealousy issues, Okay, that's fine, You're
going to respect all of it. But you do want
to work on your relationship, even from sexual standpoint, you know,
starting there so that you can get him into therapy
and yeah, and then start with that.

Speaker 5 (47:18):
Also, it's just it's so much easier to have a
third person there to help you discuss things like I'm
no longer attracted to you. That would be very difficult
to bring up to someone who you are no longer
attracted to.

Speaker 6 (47:31):
No.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
I think it's horrible to bring up.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
It doesn't have to be a permanent thing. You might
just not be attracted to him right now, you know
what I mean? If you build this relationship back, there's
always people that come back from this that can have
sex after periods of not having sex. So I wouldn't
look at it as like a final thing, like this
is not your you know, final act.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
But put it in an effort to salvage the relationship.

Speaker 5 (47:54):
Okay, I'm going to do that and get a couple
of therapists who certified in sex therapy. There's a special certification.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Oh good, good to know.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
I also think it's a little bit of a shortcut
if you find if you're able to find a queer therapist,
just so like there is a shorthand there.

Speaker 5 (48:08):
Do they have those in Amsterdam?

Speaker 4 (48:12):
I haven't heard good things about therapists in the Netherlands.
Apparently they're not very not great. But I mean, we
can always do it like zoom.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yeah virtually, yeah, you could do it exactly, So who
cares about that? You can do it over zoom with
someone in New York or la or London or somewhere
where there's better therapists.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Isn't there aren't there a lot of therapists from the.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Netherlands or psychic Well, I guess those are from like
the eighteenth century, so I register ship.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
We've had to update. They're dead.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
Maybe everyone has been. People love to say negative things
about the Netherlands, like the doctors are terrible, the therapists
are terrible, blah blah blah. So who knows. Maybe it's
just live.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Yeah, okay, Well, I mean I hope we helped you.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
I mean I don't really feel like we did.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
You back with us.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Yeah, why don't you have that conversation with him and
try and nail down a couple's therapists, you know, even
if it's in the States, Just so you guys can
start having more conversations. And I would say, one thing
is I understand you're more far, You're farther along in
your spiritual journey. Don't judge him so much. Try not
to try to try to flip the switch in your

(49:22):
head and think of him as like that's an opportunity
to actually teach and for him to learn more, Like
you can be a party to that, you can be
like part of his exposure to different things. But not
in a condescending or patronizing way.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
He is your equal. You're in a relationship.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
You can't be superior to him because you're more emotionally mature.
You kind of just have to look at him like
he has a different set of circumstances in a different history,
and you're both in the same place at the same time.
So like, how can you help each other grow and
how can you help each other learn? And that goes
for your growth and you're learning too.

Speaker 5 (49:58):
Yeah, because judgment is a real boner killer.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
But take those first steps and let and hit us
back and let us know what happens. Okay, I'll do that, Okay, okay, Timothy,
thanks for calling.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
It, Timothy.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Okay, by that made my boner go down, that that call.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
I know that's tough when you just aren't attracted to
someone anymore.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
No, I feel like that's the end of the road.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
But but there are stories about people who have completely
lost their boners, so to speak, for their spouses and
then reclaimed them.

Speaker 5 (50:31):
Well, I think what you're saying about, like having that
judgment of you, it really is. It builds up this
resentment and this sort of you know, not interesting, so
that we'll kill your sex drive too.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
For that person, especially if you're thinking someone is stupid
or they're not up, they're not as smart as you
are or spiritually advanced as you are.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Like that, you get into tricky territory.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
It's like you can be like a spiritual narcissist, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (50:55):
God, what a what a coined term?

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Okay, we're going to take a break.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
I'm gonna boom boom boom boom, and then we're going
to be back, and we're back with boom boom end
quotes Jeff Hiller.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Well, our last color today is Judith, and she has
one of my favorite subject lines I've ever seen in
our email inbox.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
It is my mom married.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Her dead stepsister's husband, and now I have an uncle daddy.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
Wait a second, my mom married again.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
My mom married her dead stepsister's husband, and now I
have an uncle daddy.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
So she says, this is a long with buckle up,
but just ae stepsister.

Speaker 5 (51:45):
Yeah, it's so.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Why does she have an uncle daddy? Oh because it's
her stepdad. Yeah, that's her uncle. Okay, this isn't the
worst news.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
Okay, no, okay, Judith says, Dear Chelsea, I'm Judith, a
forty seven year old single mom. Despite life surprises, I
strive for purpose and gratitude daily. I have one issue
I can't get over, and I thought i'd email you,
the one person who tell me if I'm being a
stubborn asshole. My seventy two year old mom just got
married for the fourth time. While multiple marriages don't FaZe me,
it's her taste in men that's the problem. I know

(52:13):
You're like, isn't one of them your dad?

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (52:15):
He was.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
He was a volatile addict. Her second was a jackass.
Her third was a paranoid hoarder. In twenty nineteen, she
retired and became single finally, and went to live with
my sister. When the pandemic lifted. She had the idea
of driving around the country in a customized van.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
To explore the world.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
A hippie at heart, we told her to go for it,
make the most of her life. About seven months into
her vagabond journey, she stopped in Mississippi to attend her
stepsister's funeral. She reconnected with the side of the family
and decided to stay an extra week. This is where
things get weird. She begins talking about her stepsister's husband.

Speaker 5 (52:46):
A lot Larry. This, Larry that.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
Larry has been our uncle our entire lives, and he sucks.
He is one of those military guys who yelled, talks,
knows everything, and is outright socially belligerent. I didn't like
it when I was four, and I don't like him now.
After a couple months, my mom tells us she's going
on a cross country train ride with Larry. I sarcastically joke,
what are you banging Larry?

Speaker 5 (53:08):
Now?

Speaker 1 (53:08):
She stammers, I want to vomit.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
This is six months after her stepsister has died, You know,
the one who is Larry's wie for forty seven years.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
They were together since high school. Six months later she
moves in with.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
Him, and a few months after that she announces she's
marrying him. In an email to us, she says, there's
not a wedding, they're just going to the Justice of
the Peace. The next day, we wake up to a
Facebook post. They're standing under a tree. She had a bouquet,
a new dress. His family was there. We were not invited.
Here's my predicament. Last week she asked if they could
come visit. This means her and Larry. I am the

(53:39):
only sibling who hasn't spent time with them. Two of
them tolerate him, the other has tried it and is
done trying. The idea makes me rage. I want to
say no, I want no part of him in my life?
Am I being too stubborn?

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Chelsea? What do I do about my uncle daddy? Judith? Hard?

Speaker 6 (53:55):
No?

Speaker 5 (53:56):
Hard?

Speaker 3 (53:56):
No?

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Hi? Hey, how are you? This is our special guest
Jeff Hiller is here today.

Speaker 6 (54:04):
Hi.

Speaker 7 (54:05):
I totally know who you are. I'm a huge failureself.

Speaker 5 (54:07):
Oh thank you?

Speaker 7 (54:08):
So you're no?

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yes, I would say a hard no. I listen.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
I'm of the belief at our age. You're forty seven.
IM a few years older than you. Jeff is forty nine.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
We don't have to.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Tolerate this kind of bullshit anymore. I don't want to
be around people I don't want to be around.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
I've earned the right.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
I have extended my generosity for years leading up to
this point and tolerated people that I don't have to
tolerate in my family and outside of my family, and
I'm just I'm not really willing to do that anymore.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It's
creating a healthy bat who wants that guy in their house?

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Fucking yelled talking at you. No, no, you.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Already stated that your mother and then and your mother
is kind of has been kidnapped by him, basically, right,
I mean, so she's been hijacked by this man. And
while that sucks, and I know you love your mother,
you can easily say I want to see you, but
I don't. I don't want to see him, and so
if you ever want to see me alone, let me know.
But I'm not really interested in hanging out with Jeff

(55:07):
my uncle as my father.

Speaker 1 (55:10):
Or Larry. Sorry I got to do with Jeff. Sorry,
you know what he did. Jeff knows what he's done,
what I did.

Speaker 5 (55:21):
No regrets, you know. I I have this like.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Okay, and again go no, no, go for it.

Speaker 5 (55:28):
I you know, I people walk over me sometimes so
grain of huge salt. But my thought is, Okay, it's
clear your mom has terrible taste in men, and I
have I don't have family, but I have good friends
who have truly just shitty tasting men, and I'm wondering
if you could just say, like, you know, I'd love

(55:49):
to see you, and I'll go to dinner with Larry,
but I can't have him staying in the house. Is
that enough or you think no, just across the board,
don't come at all?

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Well no, I mean I think anything's an option. I
think this is why you know, this is why you're here.
You have a point of view.

Speaker 5 (56:04):
Well, because I just feel like, you know, I got
a dead mom and I just feel like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
If you could have hung out with your mom and
a big asshole with her, you're saying that you would
have done that.

Speaker 5 (56:16):
Well, I I just feel like this could possibly create,
you know, a rift.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
But I feel like if that rift has been created
already right not by you, but.

Speaker 7 (56:26):
Yes, no, you all are.

Speaker 6 (56:28):
I feel so validated right now because literally what the
both of you are saying is what my friends and
family around me are saying. Chelsea, I'm one hundred percent
with you. In fact, I've used the word kidnapped multiple times.
I'm like, it's like he stole our mom from her
family because he needed a replacement. Yeah, But then I
have people saying, but you know, it's your mom. She's

(56:48):
seventy two. You might have five to ten good years
with her left and be the bigger person.

Speaker 7 (56:55):
But when it boils.

Speaker 6 (56:56):
Down to it, it's like I don't want to go
to dinner with him because I feel like I can't
control my face.

Speaker 5 (57:03):
Well, you've made the choice.

Speaker 7 (57:05):
Then I think like I don't know.

Speaker 6 (57:06):
How to look at him and be kind or nice.
I don't trust myself.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Great, these are all your answers.

Speaker 6 (57:12):
Yeah, I'm not a people pleaser anymore. I don't have
to do this. I've learned that lesson I've pushed through
in my forties to like stand up for what I
think is healthy and the people I want in my life.
But there is some lingering guilt, and I just don't
know if I'm being too stubborn, because, like I said,
my other siblings half stepped in and tried, and they
all say, like, girl, we didn't enjoy it either, but

(57:34):
it's one of those things. We're doing it for our mom,
and I just would prefer not to. I just don't
know if I'm being.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
So I don't think. I don't think it matters that
you're being stubborn. I really don't. I think I completely
support your decision to say this.

Speaker 6 (57:49):
Is just a I'm the third of four and we
were all we're all very close, like my mom had
four kids in six years.

Speaker 7 (57:55):
Wrap your head around that.

Speaker 6 (57:56):
So it's like boom boom boom boom boom with us,
and we all feel the same way for the first
time ever about something. But usually I'm the people pleasing
little child that can be friendly and like.

Speaker 7 (58:09):
Keep her chin up and do whatever.

Speaker 6 (58:11):
But when I got divorce, like eight years ago, I
quit doing that.

Speaker 7 (58:14):
I just don't do that anymore. I'm not performing for anyone.
I don't want to have to be forced into things
that I want to be into.

Speaker 6 (58:20):
And I want to stand in my own power and
my own decision making and let the people that I
trust into my circle and into my world.

Speaker 7 (58:26):
And so I did talk to my therapists about just
going to dinner with.

Speaker 6 (58:29):
Him, and even then it feels like I'm going to
be fake or performing for them, and I don't want
to put myself in a situation where I'm not being real,
you know what I mean, or authentic.

Speaker 5 (58:41):
You've done the work too, You've like really thought about
this and talk about with your therapist and your siblings.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
I feel like you've Yeah, I mean, how many more
opinions do you need?

Speaker 7 (58:51):
Just yours? Chelsea.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
I just want yours.

Speaker 5 (58:55):
You blame me, I would trust it.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Then, Yeah, for sure, you got it. You got this.
Don't do it, don't do it.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Be nice to your mother, tell her you love her,
and then you're always open to seeing her.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
She's your mother.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
You'll always love her. Reiterate that, always say that. Make
sure she knows. But you're not interested in hanging out
with Logan or Larry or whatever.

Speaker 5 (59:14):
The fact that they met at her funeral.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
But this happens all the I have a grandfather, not
my grandfather, but my nieces have a grandfather. He married
his cousin right after his wife died, like the cousin
that looks the most like his ex wife or his
dead wife.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
This happens all over. This happens to men all the time.
They men can't be alone there are and so they
immediately they're like, oh, you're alive, Okay, you come with me.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
It's like, what what is the Are there any prerequisites
to us being a relationship.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Yeah, I support you, I'm with you, Thank you, Chelsea.
But what's up with that dog in the background. Is
that dog a Republican?

Speaker 7 (59:53):
Wise Texas? Trust me?

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Okay, I just want to me. I can hate Republicans
live in Texas.

Speaker 4 (01:00:02):
I do.

Speaker 6 (01:00:02):
I'm in Dallas, but I'm in a very blue, beautiful space.

Speaker 7 (01:00:06):
Don't worry like I'm.

Speaker 5 (01:00:07):
Yeah, the dog is very cute.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Thank you, Judith.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Will you take a picture of that and text it
to me so we can include it in the video?

Speaker 7 (01:00:14):
Absolutely? Absolutely yes.

Speaker 6 (01:00:16):
I work with rescue animals and so I'm in my
office and we're celebrating big dog energy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
Oh good, Okay, well, thanks for calling in Jja, thank
you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Tell your mom I set aloute girl.

Speaker 7 (01:00:28):
I just hope she doesn't know this podcast happens, so
we'll see what pray for me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
I doubt Larry's an avid listener, and apparently he's deciding
what she's listening to these days.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Okay, okay, take care, jud.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
All right, thank you, bye bye bye. Don't you feel
like we solve the world's problems today? I mean, honestly, wow, definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
What we started with him. I mean, he's got a
lot of problems.

Speaker 5 (01:00:57):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Imagine imagine going to a city, moving with somebody on
their visa and then you're beholden to them and you're
not really in you're not sexually A tract that he
has a lot of problems and if we could solve
that in a podcast, then this would be more successful.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
You know what I mean. We would be getting awards, Michelin.

Speaker 5 (01:01:17):
Star rating, Michelin Star, We're the first star podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
We'd have a bakery, we would have we would have
Michelin stars, you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
If we can solve every fucking problem problem not solved?
For tim was that his name?

Speaker 7 (01:01:36):
Timothy?

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Okay, well, Timothy from South Africa who's in the Netherlands.
I was like, it was like, looks like he's searching
for Dutch people. Well, we have to wrap things up.
This is it's over. This podcast episode is over.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I want every you've been boom boomed everyone, everyone to
order a copy of Actress of a Certain Age, My
twenty year trail to overnight success. It's really worth it.
And you've been a pleasure. I'm so happy that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Have we ever met before?

Speaker 5 (01:02:07):
No, no, but I will. You did one time on
Chelsea Lately. I did this truly ridiculous musical in real life,
and you did your monologue about it and you called
it a gay hate crime in reverse. And I do
have a slight sense of pride about that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Okay, Well, and now I do too. It's a wonderful. Well,
I'm wonderful to relive memories like that, to cruise down
memory lane. Before our podcast was a Michelin star. God,
what a day, what an afternoon?

Speaker 5 (01:02:39):
Thank you, Jeff, Thank you seriously, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Okay. My remaining dates for Vegas, There are remaining dates
for this year. Summertime is coming and I will be
in Vegas at the Cosmo doing my residency on July fifth.
We will be the next date that I'm there, July fifth,
August thirtieth, and then November one and twenty ninth.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
November one and November twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Ninth, I will be in Las Vegas at the Cosmo
performing Inside Myself at the Chelsea.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
It's called Chelsea at the Chelsea for a reason. Okay,
thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:03:16):
Do you want advice from Chelsea?

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Right into Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com. Find
full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching
at Dear Chelsea pod.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Dear Chelsea is edited

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
And engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine law And
be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
com