January 1, 2026 • 57 mins
Kumail Nanjiani (OH MARY!, Night Thoughts) joins Chelsea to talk about building trust in a relationship, surviving the loss of his cat Bagel, and why working out is actually very nerdy. Then: A doggy deal breaker is just the tip of the iceberg in one man’s troubled relationship. And tension around tipping leads to an embarrassing situation for a restaurant’s regular.
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Executive Producer Catherine Law
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I just announced all my tour dates. It's called the
Height and Mighty Tour. I'm coming to Washington, d c Norfolk, Virginia, Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Detroit, Michigan, Cleveland, Columbus,
and Cincinnati, Ohio, Denver, Colorado, Portland, Maine, Providence, Rhode Island, Springfield, Massachusetts, Chicago,
of Course, Indianapolis, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, Albuquerque, Masa, Arizona, Kansas City, Missouri,
(00:27):
Saint Louis, Missouri, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Nashville, Tennessee, Charlotte, North Carolina, Durham,
North of Carolina, Saratoga, California, Monterey, California, Modeesto, California, and
port Chester, New York, Boston, Massachusetts, Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington.
(00:48):
I will be touring from February through June, so go
get your tickets now. If you want to come see
me perform, I will be on the High and Mighty Tour.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Happy New Year, Catherine.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's New Year's Day.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Hi.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
I'm hoping it's nice and frosty and Whistler. It is
not frosty here in La.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Is it's nice and frosty.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Unfortunately, I have to head back to La today and
leave Whistler. But that's okay because I have to prep
for the Critics' Choice Awards.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's gonna be so great this year. I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm excited. I'm excited. It's always so fun to do,
so we'll just get right into it. This guy's another comedian.
He's probably now one of my favorite comedians after watching
his new special and after spending time with him. I
was doing a shoot with him a few months ago,
and he is an Oscar nominated writer, Emmy nominated and
SAG Award winning actor, and critically acclaimed producer and comedian
(01:41):
who's a critically acclaimed producer.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Please welcome Kumail Nanjianni.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
For Christmas, everybody, we brought you a Jew and then
a Pakistani.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yes, you know, jerked over Minna night.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
That's you know, yeah exactly. Okay, Please welcome Kamail nan Gianni.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Did I say it right?
Speaker 6 (02:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
You said it right. You just didn't say it with
a lot of confidence. But that's okay.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Well, I mean the confidence precedes me, so I don't
even need the confidence.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Kamail nan Gianni.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
That's right, I did.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yes, I got the pleasure of hanging out with Kamail.
We were working on something with Kevin Hart. You know
that little nugget who just got nominated for a Golden Globe.
By the way, for his stand up special. I can't
think of anyone who deserves it less.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And well, I also got nominated.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Oh my god, yes, yeah, I did not expect it.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
My specials not even out yet, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh my god. You know what.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I was watching it yesterday. I watched Kamail special. It's
called Night Thoughts. It's going to be on.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Hulu, right, yeah, December nineteenth on Hulu.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
December nineteenth, it comes out, you guys, And I was
watching a Kamal and I was like, you're going I
can't believe that you got nominated either.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I thought you wouldn't if it's not out yet, you
wouldn't qualify.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Yeah, the cutoff is like December thirty first. But yeah,
I had such a great time doing that thing with
you and Kevin.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Well, first of all, all, let's okay, now we're getting
all carried away. Okay, let's go back to that. We
filmed something with Kevin. We'll probably you'll hear about that later.
And another friend of ours Keegan and I hadn't really
hung out with you, Kamail, I guess ever, which is weird,
but I assumed I had. Anyway, we had a blast,
and Kevin just wanted me to be there because he
needed somebody to drink with because Kamal and Keegan were,
(03:22):
you know, acting like normal people. But we filmed something
around the stand up world and we had I had
a great time with you, camel.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
I had a great time with you. It was so funny,
and your and Kevin's dynamic is so funny to me.
I was laughing so much because you know, it's Kevin
Hart's obviously he's a He's an enterprise, right, He's not
even a celebrity.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
He's like an enterprise. Rent a car to be specific.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
A compact, he's but so he's surrounded by all these
people that he's the king of, right, and then you're
there and the entire time you are just picking on him.
It's so funny. I loved it so much.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Oh, I'm so glad.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I'm so glad you were there to witness it, because
it is really fun when he and I get together
and do stuff together because he just I think he
really enjoys the abuse he does.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
He does, I don't think he gets it very much.
He's just you know what's surprising about him, and I
don't know him that well either. That's the most I've
hung out with him, but I had hung out with
him more than I'd hung out with you. He's a
true comedian, like he's like, loves comedy. He approaches it
like a stand up. He really like so the ball
busting and stuff. He's not like an actor who does
(04:37):
stand up. I know he started off as a stand up,
but he's still a stand up.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, and he really respects the art of stand up,
and he really wants other people to succeed in stand up.
He enjoys watching it and he'll spit. When you see
this project, you'll see him watch comedians and then spit
back out their material to him. I was impressed actually
with him that day, and that doesn't happen frequently, so so.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
That was fun. But let's get back tonight.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Thoughts your stand up special which is just nominated for
a Golden Globe.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I didn't even look at the list.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I just saw Kevin posted to congratulate himself, So congratulations
to you, Kamal.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
And when I was watching it.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I was like, this, but you should definitely get nominated
because A you're so fucking funny, and you're so funny
in a non bro ick way. You're You're just you
make everything listen. I'm not into cats at all. I
don't want to see them or talk about them. And
you have a bit about cats that is just hilarious.
(05:35):
And it was the only time I've been actively listening
to a story about a cat for more than about
ten minutes.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Thank you. You know you texted me yesterday like the
opening students that walk out. You sent me a video
of it, and I was like, oh, Chelsea's watching it.
And then I got really nervous because I think you're
really funny. I respect you, of course and all that.
I'm a fan, and I feel like comedians are the
best critics of stand up comedy because we see people
(06:06):
getting nominated all the time for stand up and you're like, well,
that person should have been nominated. It should not have
been nominated. They shouldn't have been nominated. But other comedians
really really know what good comedy is. So I was
really nervous. I don't care what critics say. I care
what comedians say. About it.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, And also I would say as a comedian, it's
very hard.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I don't know if this is true for you. Tell me.
I find it hard to watch stand up on TV
like Live.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You can get down with it, but watching people's specials
can always be a little bit tricky.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So that's why it was an extra pleasant surprise.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I mean, I just was sitting here at my kitchen
counter watching on my iPod, and the very first thing
out of the gate that you talk about is the
very first thing I mentioned to you when I saw
you when we were doing our project. Which are the
muscles that are coming out of the back of your shoulders.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I don't know. Are those called rhomboids or are they
what are you?
Speaker 4 (07:01):
That's funny, They're called trapezoids, which is another ship so
you were close.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, there's two sets come out.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
There's two that come over here, come out of your shoulder,
and then his arm has an extra series or like
it's like a mountain range, like a mini mountain range
of muscles that comes out that I haven't seen before.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I'm actually trying to bring it down, especially the traps.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
How long did it take you to acquire that body?
Because you had to do that for your superhero movies, right.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Yeah, I did it for my superhero movie. That took
about a year and a half. But when it really
went nuts was in the pandemic. Like I had a
full freak out in the year and a half that
I did not leave the house. I talked about it
a little bit in the special, and all I did
I worked out about four hours every day. I got
really obsessed with it. And that's when I like sort
(07:55):
of got really really super big.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
And you just that because you had nothing else going on, right, I.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Had nothing else going on, and it was the only
thing I could do where I could feel any kind
of progress. I was like, oh, I can lift this
weight today. I couldn't lift it last week, but I
can lift it today. Nothing else was happening, nothing else
was real. I couldn't feel like I was moving in
any direction except for working out. It's really the thing
that kept me tethered to sanity.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I understand that because you talk, you do address this
a little bit in your special, not related to the
muscle building and working out, but in being like nervous
for your wife because she was immune compromised during COVID.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
But I understand that too, because isn't it interesting?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And not to sound like a gym rap, but I
just want to say, I am from New Jersey, everybody,
so we already know this. So I have a predilection
for physical fitness. When you do a set, when you
do three sets of something, and you do the first
set and it's really challenging and hard, and then you
go back and you do the second set and it's easier,
you realize how quickly you can gain strength, and it
(08:58):
is quite a motivating factor.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
I think what I've learned most from it is like,
we limit ourselves all the time, I can't do that whatever,
And with working out, you realize how much of those
limits are based on our own the way we look
at ourselves, and not what other people tell you or
what even the world tells you. So yeah, it's I
mean I never thought i'd be buff, you know, And
the fact that I am, I was like, oh, maybe
(09:21):
what else is like available to me that I thought
wasn't available to me?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Accomplishable?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Right?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Do your wife? Do you guys have more sex now
that you have a bigger body.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
No, we have the same amount of sex, which is
a very good, healthy amount of sex. But she does
it. It's like it's like fucking the corner of a building.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I like that a lot.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
It's it's you know, I hugged a buff guy the
other day who was like buffer than me, and I
was like, I know exactly what Emily means.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, yeah, And how did that make you feel when
you've touched his body like that against your body?
Speaker 4 (09:59):
I did. It didn't feel good. It's not like you
know Pete Holmes your buddies with Pete. I'm sure he
in one of his sets he talks about how like
a good hug is important, and he mentions me and says,
there's no Catharsis, like you need like cushion for a
good hug. And I finally understood what he meant when
I hugged this buff guy.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I don't listen. As a woman, I have to say,
I disagree completely. I don't want to hug a cushion.
I that I could do on my sofa when I
want a man who's got some muscles on him.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
He doesn't have to be.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
A beef cake like you. But I wouldn't turn that away.
I like muscles, I don't. I mean, you know, knowing
somebody spending that much time in the gym is a
different story.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah. Yeah, Well you tend.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
To just be naturally physically fit without doing anything.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
It is nerdy to like spend this much time doing this.
It's like you have to have. Emily was like, if
we first went out and you look like this, I
think there was something really wrong with you.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Okay, so let's talk about Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
First, I want to talk a little bit about the special,
because in this special you really do get emotional. Two
or three times you were teary eyed at the gratitude
you were feeling. Towards filming your special back in Chicago
where you started stand up, you filmed it at the
VIC Theater, So you started out as a stand up
and you remind people that you're not an actor trying
to do stand up or attempting to do stand up
(11:19):
off of the back of your success as an actor,
but that you began as a stand up. And you
also talk about you mentioned therapy a lot during the show,
which was really nice to hear from as a woman
hearing it from a straight man, it's always refreshing for
men to be talking about therapy. And then your cat's
name is Bagel, so let's start with your cat.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
How is she?
Speaker 4 (11:44):
She is not with us anymore?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Okay, great, great, great way to start.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So this is a great beginning and hopefully you'll be
able to I don't know, maybe you will cry.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Maybe I can make you cry, come out.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
You know what. We got a new you don't like cat,
so this won't be We got a new kitten a
month ago, and that was the first time I was like, oh,
it's okay. I don't you got it. You know, I've
got a new thing to focus on. And literally yesterday
when the newness of the new kitten sort of went away,
and I love this kitten, I started missing Bagel again
(12:18):
and I hadn't missed her for a month and I
just miss her. So but you know what, she was seventeen.
She led a great life. And you know it is
what it is. You do you have dogs? Are you
a pet person?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I do? And what I want to say to you
about this is I always have I always have a dog.
I always have one dog, and sometimes I have two dogs,
but as soon as one of them starts to go downhill,
I acquire another dog. Always because I don't have time
for grieving. I want to transfer my love to another
person or dog immediately, and I find that to be
in a great approach to you know, listen, rescue animals
(12:54):
or cats or dogs whatever, even if they're not rescues,
they're going to they're not going to be here forever.
And we know that going in, so you kind of
have to, like, I just want to kind of get
ahead of it. And it's not like it's a person.
I don't grieve for my animals like their people. I
don't think that my dog crosses the Rainbow Highway or
whatever when he goes to heaven.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I don't talk like that. I just want them. I
love dogs.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I love having a dog in my house, and so
I'm very pragmatic about it. But I understand that other
people are much more sensitive.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I was.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I mean, she's the first pet I ever had, and
Emily and I have been married eighteen years and she's
been with us seventeen years, so it was always the
three of us, you know, so yeah, and I'm with you.
I don't think Mike, you know, people will be like, oh,
she's still with you, Like she's not. She's not with me.
I remember her, her memories are with me. But there's
no like spirit that's around. So I completely agree with you.
(13:51):
I was talking to Emily yesterday. I was like, we
should wait a few years and get another cat, just
exactly for the reasons you're mentioning, so that we have
like another after this one decides to go. You didn't cry.
You don't cry when your dog does.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Oh, I cry, but I don't mourn like my last
dog was actually a really ugly kind of death. And
I was sorry, thank you, and I just I cried.
I you know, it took her to the event.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It was awful.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
It was dramatic, and it was like a three day event.
But I was able to recuperate pretty quickly. And I
also had this new dog, a new puppy that I
had rescued, So it was it was It's a good buffer.
But I just do want to say on behalf of
Bagel because I feel like I speak for her now.
You that tribute you made to her in your stand up,
I mean, this is a beautiful way to go out,
(14:39):
and it's a beautiful bookend to your love story with Bagel.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Oh, thank you. Yeah. The way it happened was so weird.
I was in New York doing this play. Oh, Mary Right, Oh, Mary, Yeah,
really have you seen it?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I have not seen it.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Sorry, yeah, I've seen it. I thought just I think
maybe just before you were in it. But I saw
it with Titu.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
It's really really funny, and I just loved being a
you know, you fucking kill every night you get a
standing ovation and it has nothing to do with you.
It's incredible. You're like, I'm literally just saying the word
someone else wrote and you think I'm a hero. It's
so fun. But the weird thing was we've had her
for seventeen years, you know, and she's like such an
important part of our life. She passes away Saturday morning.
(15:23):
Emily has to fly an hour later back to LA
to get a monthly treatment she has to get for
her autoimmune condition, and I have two shows that day,
So my cat dies at nine am. I'm on stage
at three pm and then again at eight pm. And
I never without Emily, and I never imagine it would
be like that. I thought when she would go, Emily
(15:44):
and I would like cocoon and be with each other
for two weeks. And we didn't even see each other
for another week. So it was like really really intense,
and I had this feeling, this is weird. As I
was doing the first show, like four hours after my
cat died, I was like ten minutes in and I
wasn't really feeling it wasn't going well, and I was like,
you know what, this show is my tribute to Bagel.
(16:04):
I owe it to her to be funny today. And
then that went great, and then the second one went
great because of that, I was like, I'm doing this
for her. And then Sunday was terrible. I was terrible
boat shows because I'd spent all night now alone in
an apartment without my cat or my wife, and I
was just miserable.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Well, it's nice to know that you're so sensitive, Comel.
I like that about you.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Well, you know what, I realized, this is interesting. I
realized I'm the same person I was when I was fourteen,
and I always hated that part of myself. I hated
how sensitive I was, Like my feelings would get hurt
all the time, and that's not how men are supposed
to be, you know, It's not what strength is. And
I was very aware of it, and all through my
twenties and thirties, I was like, I'm a different person.
(16:47):
I've gotten over that I understand now I'm stronger, I'm cool,
like dress school, all this stuff, and I realized only
a few years ago into my forties. Now I'm still
the same guy I was when I was fourteen. I'm
just a senseive as I've always been. And it's not
good or bad. It's just what it is, and I
have to accept it. I have to accept that my
feelings get hurt very easily, and I have to acknowledge
(17:10):
that because trying to like get past it has not
worked for like fucking thirty years.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
And now, well, so tell me what it was like
when you were a kid growing up.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Were you able to communicate with your family and like
have this kind of emotional conversations or was that a
no no in your house?
Speaker 4 (17:26):
It was a no no, But I think it was
self limited, Like my parents were not like that. My
dad actually is a very emotional guy and always has been.
And I've seen him cry, you know, like I know
people like my wife was like, I've seen my dad
cry twice when his mother died and when his wife died.
I've seen my dad cry hundreds of times. And when
(17:47):
I was a little kid, I really hated that he
would cry. I was like, oh, my dad's like I
was like, my dad's a pussy. I did not like
that he cried, and he was always very affectionate, like
he would kiss up and you know, it was very
like emotionally, very very communicative. But for me, I did
not like that about him. And now when I look back,
(18:09):
I'm so grateful that I had him as like a
model for how to be like a man who is
connected with his feelings. I was not connected with my feelings,
and I had a real anger issue. I would say
probably from the age of ten to kind of all
through my twenties and a lot of my thirties as well.
But really, when I was thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, I was
a nice guy. Nobody saw it except my parents. But
(18:32):
when I would get angry, and I was so angry,
I wanted to burn the world and I could not.
It was this horrible feeling of being completely out of control.
And I think all of that came out of not
being able to address the fact that I was sensitive,
that my feelings got hurt very easily, and that anger
was something that I really started didn't start working on
(18:53):
until I was in my thirties, when Emily and I
were together, and sometimes we'd get into fights and I
would just go to this place that did not feel
like me. And what I had to do was I
would feel like I'd have to get to the point
and say the thing that you cannot take back, and
then that would break it. It would break the spell,
and then I would feel awful and the guilt would
(19:15):
be just like punishing myself for what I said. And
then so it was like the cycle I was in.
And it wasn't until like, you know, a few years
ago in my forties when I really started late thirties actually,
I would say mid to late thirties when I started
like trying to be like and it started an acting class.
I was taking an acting class, and I was like, oh,
(19:35):
there's a lot more in here than I realize, and
I need to start excavating it, because that's I owe
it to Emily first, even before I owe it to myself.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, it's so nice to hear you say that because
I can relate to that, like it's kind of unskilled emotions,
like you don't know yet what you're dealing with, and
you address this in your special too, which is really beautiful,
beautiful moment and don't get confused with beautiful moments in a.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Stand up special. They're allowed for our listeners. I love that.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I love that it's you know, not just all joke joke, joke,
joke joke. It's plenty funny, with a lot of like
feeling in it and a lot of messaging that needs
to get through. But I think you know, you're talking
about a cycle of anger, which whichever you know, so
many people have, and it can escalate to a level
where like that's the same cycle as an abusive person.
(20:24):
You know, when somebody's abusive physically, they go, they go,
and they go, they get mad, mad, mad mad. Then
they pop and then they're overwhelmed with guilt and they
come back and they're apologizing and they're so sorry.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
But it's it's something that everyone can relate to.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
It's just different varying degrees of anger and how you
express it and then finding out finding out from a
therapist that your anger is really fear or sadness. You know,
it's like the it's the it's like the the jacket
that your fear, sad sadness wears to protect itself.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
So this is something that you because I always think
of you as like you're like a badass, strong person, right,
Like I've never thought of you as someone who was
soft or anything. Is this something that you sort of
figured out about yourself too?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, I had to go to I had like a
real break at like when I turned forty. I was like, oh,
I was so angry, I'm so angry, and like I
was protecting I mean, it was like Trump got elected,
so it was like I had some place to place
my anger, right.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I was like, that's why I hate this world, this
is it, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
But really, when I delved into therapy, I found out
it was a lot about my childhood. My brother died
when I was really young. I had delayed grief. I
had never spoken to anybody or anybody that could really
unwrap that with me. So I learned very early on
that my emotional outbursts, much like yours, were just me
(21:52):
being scared or me being really sad and not feeling
comfortable with expressing either of those emotions. So you find
the emotion you are comfortable with, and for many of us,
it's anger, because then you're like, oh, okay, well this
is still protective. I'm protecting myself, But it does feel
like shit after you lose your shit.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
It does because the anger FA is facing outwards. You know,
you're like, instead of dealing with your own sadness or fear,
you're like directing into outwards. That's something And I've noticed
this a lot on social media. Obviously there's a lot
wrong with the world, and there's a lot of like
righteous anger that should be directed at it. But I
see certain people that I'm like, Okay, the target is right,
(22:33):
but there's a lot more going on with you right now,
Like this isn't just about politics or whatever we're headed
or whatever. It is, like there's stuff inside you that
you need to deal with because it's and you've decided
that it's really about this thing, but it's more about you.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, I would say that's in astute observation as well,
because you know, you know, you go through like I
went through like a jaunt of therapy that was like
two years intense, and then after that I was like, Okay,
let me take a break and try to absorb all
of this and like apply it to my life so
I can soften my edges and be more of a
whole person rather than just kind of coming across as
(23:09):
like this bulldozer and strong, and then you you know
that takes a bit of time too, to adjust your
personality because you're like, who am I now?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Am I the same person? Or am I a different person?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
And you're kind of trying to take the best parts
of your personality and bring them into the present.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
And then you're like, but how do I get rid
of the bad parts?
Speaker 5 (23:30):
You know?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And it's it's not it's like it's just always a
moving puzzle.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Yes, that's very well put.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But I was reading this book recently and it was
talking about intergenerational trauma, which is something we all suffer from,
and I'm like, oh, fuck, now we've got to deal
with my fucking generation with all these families, like we're
in the Holocaust. I got to go through this now,
I'm like, intergenerational trauma, that's too much for us to
deal with in one lifetime.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Yeah, that's not my shit. They should have dealt with
the That's the other thing you realize is like, you
know how much we get from therapy, And then realized, like,
my parents have never had this once. They've never once
had a therapy session, and it's like it'd be so much.
We'd all be so much happier if you guys were
able to do that. Like my dad, who's absolutely wonderful,
(24:15):
really in touch with his feelings, but there was like,
like I mentioned this car accident that he was in,
and he for two weeks he was just like really
depressed because he got so scared. And I was like, Dad,
you should talk to somebody. He's like nope, nope, nope,
and then he just kind of muscled through it and
then a month later he was like, Okay, I'm fine now.
(24:36):
So whatever the process was he did, I don't know
how deep he buried it or whatever, but it's like
they just it just feels like I've to a lot
of people therapy is a defeat and it's really not.
It's just what is required. We're really fucking complicated and
we're dealing with a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I know, and we're dealing with a lot, but there's
been so many generations that have come before us that
never dealts with anything. So the argument that we have
to deal with that is kind of like, well, why
maybe I could just go through my life and not
deal with anything and be a miserable son of a
bitch for the last you know.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Twenty or thirty.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Like my dad his last fifteen twenty thirty years, he
was just angry, just angry, angry, angry. And I'm like, oh, well,
if he had had therapy and become like a self
actualized person, he probably would have been a lot different.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
But to what availed.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Right, Like, we sit here kind of like you know,
like navel gazing. People are like, oh it's you.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Know, especially La.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
As soon as you come to La, it doesn't matter
what country or cultural background you're from, you end up
in therpy.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, it's too much. People here are too self actualized.
Some of these people need to start bottling shit up again.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Do you and your wife go to couple therapy?
Speaker 4 (25:47):
We have? We don't anymore. We did. I think we
started in the pandemic and we did it for about
a year, started off every week and then every other week,
and it was really really remarkable. First of all, you know,
Emily and I are both very smart people and we
pride ourselves on that. And we were talking to this
(26:08):
therapist and we were like, I think she's smarter than us,
Like she really fucking knows us, and it's and it sucks,
it sucks that she's so smart. But she gave us
basically the tools. We realized, if you really want to
get into it, that as couples we were stuck in
the same patterns from like the beginning of our relationship.
(26:30):
And there's two sort of things. One we met she
was in the audience, I was on stage. So even
though there's never been a hierarchy between us, there's never
been like a dominant one. But because of that she
had a day job, I was following my dreams. That
pattern became very established in our lives, where like, she
basically makes sacrifices for me, and we'd been living that
(26:52):
for over ten years. That thing where it wasn't equal,
it was kind of one way. And the other thing
is when she got sick, which we you know, we
made a movie called The Big Sick about it, and
it's mentioned in the special when she got sick. That
pattern that developed from that ultimately ended up being replayed
(27:14):
over and over and over and over in our relationship.
And we didn't realize that. We thought we were over it,
but it wasn't until talking to the therapist we were like, oh,
all our all of our problems go back to those
two things. One that she sort of sacrifices herself for
my needs and goals. And two I sort of feel
(27:34):
like I need to control her so she won't get
sick again.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Oh yeah, that's really interesting. And how do you address that?
Speaker 4 (27:44):
I think trust. I have to trust that she understands
how to not make herself get sick. I was just
very judgmental when she was like, you know, be out
late at night or whatever, where I was like, any
of these things can trigger another episode, how dare you
do this to yourself? Like that was the thinking, that
was the feeling, and it just got to and she's
(28:05):
been for years being like you have to trust me
in hower to take care of myself over and over,
but understanding that, like, oh that's what this is. It's
really it's really about trust, That's what it was. And
the other thing we did was, you know, as traditionally
a very closed off man, there was just a lot
of times I would not admit things to her, like
(28:26):
if I'm starting a new job, I'm nervous. Am I
good enough? Or they're going to find out I suck?
Whatever it is. I would keep that to myself and
I was just really anxious all the time. And then
I started like really telling her like, Hey, I'm starting
this new job and I'm really scared, and I thought
saying it out loud would make that thing more real.
It's the opposite. It makes it less, it takes its
power away. And then we did this thing where I
(28:49):
think for a couple months, every day we had to
share three vulnerable things about ourselves that we had not
told the other person about, big thing, small things, whatever
it is, and that really really helped. And now the
goal between us truly is one hundred percent transparency, Like
and that could be you know, I'm scared, or it
(29:10):
could be like, hey, I was at this place with
this girl hit on me like all everything we say everything.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Wow, and how does that?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So I'm sure that makes their relationship even stronger. It's
interesting what you just said about naming something and saying
it out loud, because you know, there's a philosophy a
lot of people have that whatever you focus is on
get gets bigger, right, or whatever you focus on gets bigger,
and actually even saying something out loud.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Can make it bigger.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
But I also am of the same I subscribe to
the same philosophy you do that when you do say
it out loud, it also can dissipate.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
So it's interesting because Catherine, this has come up a
lot on the show.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
You know, like whatever you focus on gets bigger, Like
if you're obsessing over something like Camail. I guess this
applies to keeping it in because like Cameil, if you're
obsessing about being not good enough for a role or
are you gonna fit in or is the director gonna
think you're you know, good enough, if you're focusing and
hyper focusing on that, then that will get bigger and
you will kind of it will impact your performance. But
(30:11):
I guess by saying it out loud, there's a way
that you can release that.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Yeah, and you're inviting another voice into the conversation because
otherwise it's not silence. It's you talking to yourself. Judge,
you know, you know myself talk towards myself has traditionally
been so negative. Like I heard someone else say this,
like if my friends talk to me this way, I
would not be friends with them anymore. And so it's
not silence. It is a it's a dialogue. It's a monologue,
(30:40):
just me saying all this shit to myself, inviting another
voice into it to counter that was really really helpful
because she can bring perspective, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, yeah, So talk to me about your two other projects.
You have a movie, Ellen mackay, and you have a
show a TV showed Fallout.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
So Ellen McKay is a movie directed by Jims l So.
It's one of my favorite filmmakers. I mean, you know,
in terms of endearment, Broadcast News.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Terms of Endearment as my favorite movie of all time.
There is no way to get through that movie. It's
like watching Hamnet. Have you seen Hamnet?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Yet? But yeah, oh.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
God, I mean, I just love when something makes me ball.
I was watching it.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I'm up in my house and Whistler and I was
watching it last night and I was just bawling on
the sofa and my dog Doug kept coming over.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
But I love crying like that. It's such a release,
It truly is.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Terms of Endearment is the same.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
There is no way that hospital scene with Debah Winger
saying goodbye to her children that you can keep your
shit together and if you do your fucking evil.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
That part was she's telling the sun is angry, and
she's telling him like, I know you love me, You're
gonna beat yourself up over this. Don't you're being shitty
to me right now, but I know you love me.
That's such a good guy right now, I know. I
asked Jim the director about it, and he's like, that
scene is why I made the mo so I could
(32:01):
film that scene. Yeah, it's beautiful, and so he directed it.
And it's got a wildcast. It's got Albert Brooks and
Jamie Lee Curtis and Emma Mackie plays the lead and
she's phenomenal, Jack Loud and Woody Harrelson. I don't know
if I mentioned Jamie Lee kurt Anyway, it's incredible cast.
I have not seen the film yet, but that one
(32:21):
was just like, you know, got to meet a bunch
of my heroes and really really really exciting. And then
Fallout is a TV show based on a video game.
Video game I love, and I love the first season
of the show. I'm in season two for a few episodes.
And the creator of that one of the creators of
the TV show was a guy who wrote for Silicon
Valley and before that he wrote for Portland Ya. And
(32:42):
I just made this decision a few years ago where
I was like, I'm just gonna be shameless about this.
I watched the first season. I texted him and I
was like, hey, man, I love the show. If you
ever got anything, let me know. I just asked people
directly that I like want to work with them. And
then a couple of weeks later he just called me
and he was like, hey, I got this part he
pitched to me. He's like, do you want to do it?
And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. And
(33:04):
that's what that was really really fun.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Oh wow, I like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I like asking people directly too for things. It just
cuts out the middleman.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Yeah, and then you know, like you know, if they
don't want you in it, they won't put you in it.
And that's fine too.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Do you feel like, since you've been in this industry
now for a good amount of time, do you feel
like your confidence has You've gained a lot of confidence?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Oh? What a good question. You know, I've never felt confident.
I did this show years ago and one of the
other guests was like, and this is going to sound
like a negative question, and it wasn't. She was like,
how are you so confident? And it does sound negative.
I was like, Oh, I guess that's something I project
And at that time, especially, I did not feel confident.
(33:47):
I just sort of seemed confident, I guess because so
much of my life was like it sort of comes
from wanting to be a man and not feeling like
a man. Like I changed my walk, you know, I
changed the way I talk when I was a little kid,
like I wanted to be more manly. So I think
it sort of comes from that. I feel more confident
now in that in the last few years, I've learned that,
(34:10):
like I was saying earlier, the limitations I've put on
myself were just exactly that I'd put them on myself.
And I've grown more confident in my ability to in
my ability to learn things and to learn things from
the people around me, you know. So I would say
that's really it's not confidence, it's a more I trust
myself to be able to pick things up because I
(34:33):
know I can work really hard, like I've always had
that since I was a little kid. I was like,
I'm not the smartest, I'm not the best at sports,
I'm not the best looking, but I can work harder
than anybody else. And so that's kind of where my
I guess confidence comes from, is my ability to learn
and my desire to learn, and also just knowing that
I can work.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Really hard and your traps and they come from your traps.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
And we're going to take a break and we're going
to come back and do some calls with Kamail Nanjianni.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
And we're back with Knal nan Gianni. Let's go, Catherine,
what do we got?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (35:10):
Well, our first caller is Dylan and he's twenty eight.
Dear Chelsea, I started dating this guy this year and
things have been going great. I drive an hour and
a half multiple times a week just to see him.
I never ask for gas, money or anything, and I
do it because I genuinely care about him. He always
tries his best to make me happy and constantly tells
(35:30):
me he loves me. Until today I felt the same.
I brought my dog over to his house, which he
said was totally fine, but when we arrived, his entire
mood suddenly shifted. He got all quiet and weird, and
suddenly he started telling me that my dog was no
longer welcome in his house and that he's interrupting his
space and peace.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
I immediately left.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
There are some cultural differences between us, but my dog
is my best friend and has been with me through
everything over the past five years.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
My dog is not going anywhere. Is this a deal breaker? Ps?
I'm a people.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
Please our learning boundaries. Thanks Dylan and Dylan. I think
has some updates for us too.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Hi, Dylan, this is Kamail, not Gioannny, our special guest.
Speaker 6 (36:09):
Hey, nice to meet you guys. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Sure what are your updates?
Speaker 4 (36:14):
So?
Speaker 7 (36:14):
Okay, I found out he's been married for like I
don't know how long. He never told me, but he
told me like eight months in and I was like,
why do you tell me now? And he was like, oh,
you seem like you're level headed. And I didn't go
off like I normally would. I've tried to grow, you know,
as I get older, But I was like, why wouldn't
you tell me? And he was like, it's not a
big deal, Like where are you mad?
Speaker 1 (36:34):
What? Wait?
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Was he had he been married or is he's married now?
Speaker 7 (36:38):
He's still married technically, but it's it's for like he said,
for the documentation, but he kept it a secret. So
I'm like, if we're being honest, which we told each
other like in the beginning, like that's what we're gonna do.
I was like, that's a big thing that you should
tell me in the beginning, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Yeah, I had the balls for him to be like,
why are you upset that I'm married and didn't tell you?
Speaker 7 (37:04):
Yeah? And he actually like so nonchalant about it. And
I was like, that's a huge thing to me, because
like I've been nothing but honest with him.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Well, it's a huge thing to anyone. Yes, absolutely, him
being nonchalant about it is him like trying to like
dial down your reaction to that.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yes, like he wouldn't get married.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I also, you know, have STDs just herpies, Like it's
just like throwing something.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Under the carpet.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
I have a follow up, two follow ups. Yes, you
said cultural differences. What do you mean by that he's Punjabi?
I was gonna ask if he's Indian or Pakistani? And
so there's a couple of things there. One at least
pakistanis we don't have dogs as pets, like that's very
very rare. And I grew up with dogs on the
(37:52):
streets of Karachi, like rabbit dogs chasing me. So I
was scared of dogs and did not like dogs until
I moved here. And then a few years ago and
now I love all animals and I love dogs as well.
It took a while to reset that relationship, and so
I think for specifically the dog part of the equation,
(38:12):
it's just he needs to like understand and get over
it because it's not coming from him. It is genuinely
a cultural thing and that stuff takes some deprogramming.
Speaker 7 (38:24):
Another big thing is he works seven days a week,
like thirteen hours, and like I've told I've asked, like
can I get one day of your time? And He'll
be like, yeah, I promise, and it never happens. So
like he's so family focused, which I love, but he's
convinced that like if he doesn't support his family, like
something's bad is going to happen. And in doing so,
(38:45):
he's pushed me away, like he's not willing to put
in the effort. Like I feel like I want him
to understand me and everything, but he doesn't even understand
or know himself. He hasn't had the time because it's
so like survival focused.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Well, let me ask you this, is he married to
a woman, yes, And is it like a visa situation.
Speaker 6 (39:05):
He had I believe.
Speaker 7 (39:06):
So he's been kind of quiet he hasn't really filled
me in a lot on it, but he's not like
romantically with her.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Yeah, so that's a thing that happens where people marry
for green cards and then it really is like a
business relationship. So I see, he should have still told
you from the beginning because in his head this relationship
is different from the way the relationship is to the
way it sounds is different than it is in his head.
In his head, it truly isn't a big deal. He
(39:34):
should have told you. I'm not apologizing for him, but
I know this situation. The other thing is he so
he has like a Punjabi Indian family. Have you ever
met them?
Speaker 7 (39:45):
No, But he's told his cousins that he has a girlfriend.
So I'm the girlfriend in his mind.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
So see that's the other thing. Is sorry, Chelsea, I
feel like I'm really monigious.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
It's like, first of all, I had no idea. You
had esp so this is perfect. He's like a pod reader.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Well I just have been see this like for me,
you know, my wife is white. My brother is getting
married to a white person next weekend. It took, it
really took. I hid from my parents that I was
dating her, and because culturally, it's not okay. And it
didn't come out until my wife got really sick, like
(40:24):
when we were first dating, and at that point I
was just too emotionally exhausted to not tell them about her,
and that's what prompted it. Otherwise I don't know how
long it would have taken. So I think that's the
stuff he may not be out to his family. And
if he isn't out to his family, yeah, so you know,
there's like a weird thing here again not taking his side.
(40:46):
Emily took years to figure out that she's never going
to understand the cultural the relationship that we have with
our culture and the relationship we have with our parents
and family because of our culture. And this is something
that I'm seeing my brother who's now about to get married,
I'm seeing his fiance dealing with it. Or you're trying
(41:07):
to sort of understand this stuff. And at some point
for Emily it was like you just have to accept it.
There's some stuff that you just do not have access to,
Like there are so many things that I can't be
honest in front of my parents about and she's like, well,
it's going to be complete honesty, and I'm like it's
really not like that, Like it really isn't It's kind
(41:27):
of impossible. So for him coming out, you know, that's
a personal journey, like somebody. People have to decide when
they're ready to do that. Of course he's being a
coward about it, but it's I would say, it's sadly,
got nothing to do with you. It's got to do
with his own situation, and it is a complicated situation,
(41:48):
and of course he should come out. But there's a
lot at play culturally, Like this is like heavy old shit,
you know.
Speaker 7 (41:55):
Yeah, Like for me, I don't mind that, Like he's
not out to his family. It's more like he keeps
telling me I'll make time for you, and it's like
the empty promises, Like I keep getting resentments for him,
and I don't want that. It's not good for him
or me.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
No, that's fear too, you know. It's it's how I
was with Emily when we were first dating. I was
scared of getting too close to her. We had this rule.
Emily mentioned it to me two days ago. We were
laying in bed in the morning and she was like,
remember when you had this rule that we couldn't see
each other two days in a row and I was like,
oh my god, why did you put up with this?
And seriously, yeah, it was fear. It was fear. I
(42:34):
was scared, like if I get too close to her
that I have to tell my parents. And my parents
accepted her and they're wonderful and they're very close. But
with some families from Pakistan India, the threat of being
excommunicated from the family is very real. Like I lose
situations where they're like they just never talked to each other.
Speaker 7 (42:54):
Again. Yeah, I have a lot of friends that are
like Hindu and sick, so like I get that, but
like I struggle with I feel like I do everything
for him, and I mean I do it because I
want to, but also there comes a point where you
got to you have to meet somebody in the middle.
And I feel like he cares about me, but like
he's also like his behavior is like I don't care.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
How long have you guys been together?
Speaker 7 (43:17):
A little over nine months, that's one. But he asked
me out and in my mind, like now, I'm like,
why would you do that if you know you're not
emotionally developed or ready. I think he lacked that because
I called him crying the other night, and he was like,
I'm not going to talk to you if you're crying.
Speaker 6 (43:35):
He's like, I'll thought.
Speaker 7 (43:36):
He was like, I hang up on my mom when
she's crying. I don't want to deal with that.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
Well, so I guess there's two. There's two things here. One,
a lot of this behavior has nothing to do with you.
It feels like he has some personal growth to do
and a lot of cultural stuff to deal with that
can only be dealt with once he's achieved that personal
growth mm hm. And two, I guess you decide whether
that's something you want to hang around for.
Speaker 7 (44:03):
Yeah, Like, he's such a good person, but I don't
know how much I can deal with more.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Listen, Kamal has shed a lot of light on this
a lot of light that I would not have been
able to shed. So I'm very grateful that he's here
to help you today. So Catherine, great for lining up
these questions specific also for this episode where we have
someone who is more well versed in all of this cultural.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Stuff that you have to deal with.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
So while you can have come compassion for him and
understand that his culture is plays such a big role
in his life, his relationship with his family all of
these things, even the relationship with dogs, like Kamail telling
us that is like it really sheds a lot of light,
but it doesn't really excuse it doesn't really make you.
You're not there just to wait until he starts to
(44:47):
get his shit together. There's a couple of things that
are not really tolerable. One is like an unwilling to
be open to trying to understand your relationship with your
animal because that's your dog is not going anywhere. The
other thing that is real, like really not acceptable is
for you to be upset and him not to be
able to have the emotional bandwidth to deal with your upsetness,
(45:10):
Like you crying can't be a reason for him to
hang the phone up.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
So I think like.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
There are some boundaries that he's crossed that it might
be helpful for you to write it write down rather
than having a conversation about and saying these are the
things that I'm not okay with. It's been nine months.
I understand culturally even you know, relay what you learned
on this phone call, but also just say like these
are kind of things that are non negotiable for me.
(45:35):
So if you can't make the effort like to actually
figure out how we can take the next steps and
you can be more open to my personality, to my lifestyle,
to my culture where we can kind of join our
cultures together. Then there's a lot of red flags here,
and I understand where you come from, but you also
need to do some work.
Speaker 7 (45:57):
Yeah, I need to get it together.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
Because well, like not you him, he needs to get
it Yeah.
Speaker 6 (46:04):
True, but you.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Do need to get it together too, because you're letting
somebody be craven around you, like yeah, cowardly, and you're
letting them cross into your emotional space and it's it's
not making you feel good. So you have to actually
set a boundary and if he can meet it, great,
If he can meet it and say, okay, I'm ready
to do the work.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
You know, this has been nine months. We've been you know,
shown that we have a lot to work towards and
build on. Great. But if he can't, then that's your answer.
Speaker 6 (46:33):
I don't know if he's willing to put in the work.
Speaker 7 (46:34):
And I think I think I know in my heart
what I need to do, But it's that people pleasing
part of me that like wants to hold on to
the littlest thing but in doing so, I hurt myself
and it's not worth it.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah, you have to be If you're not advocating for yourself,
no one will. So you really have to prioritize yourself
in every relationship that you have to be the best,
to be the most honest, to be compassionate, to be empathetic.
All of the things that you're bringing to the table
you need returned.
Speaker 4 (47:02):
I was gonna say, I mean, you know, him not
being able to talk to you when you are crying,
says about he's terrified of his own emotions. Obviously he
doesn't know how to deal with that. That can come
from cultural stuff. But it's like Chelsea's saying, part of
me when I became a grown up one of the things.
And this is going to sound this is not applicable
(47:23):
to your current situation, but I realized, like, just because
I know this is again not to your situation, just
because I know why someone sucks doesn't mean they don't suck. So,
for instance, I would see someone who is a dick
and I'd be like, oh, it's because you're like scared
of this other thing. Doesn't matter. You're still affecting me
the same way, And you got to deal with your shit.
And I look at every relationship I have in my life,
(47:45):
romantic friends, whatever, very practically I look at it and
I think, am I putting in more than I'm getting
out of this? And obviously there are times where your
friends are going through the thing, you know, and there's
an imbalance, and that's totally fine. But overall I've had
I've ended friendships because I'm like, it's been years and
I've just put in more than I get out and
I just have to end this friendship. And I think
(48:07):
it's extra truth for romantic situations.
Speaker 7 (48:10):
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you there. I think
just sticking to what I know and what I need
to do is going to be something I need to
focus on, especially like if I want to be happy
and like have a good future, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Absolutely, you set the standards like for how people treat you,
So I really would advise putting in an email like
and really just a thoughtful explanation of where you are
and what you expect and if he can't deliver it,
no problem. But we're not going to continue in a
romantic relationship.
Speaker 6 (48:39):
No, no resentments. It is what it is, you know,
what I mean, no harm, no foul.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah, and keep us posted. Will you please let us
check in?
Speaker 6 (48:48):
Yes, I will do a follow up. Thank you guys. Okay,
I love meeting you. Bye, thank you guys.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
We're going to take a.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Break and come back and wrap up. Maybe we have
a quick one Catherine to wrap up. Yes, okay, great, okay,
So we'll take a break and we'll be right back
with Kameel Gianni and we're back with Kamal Camel. That
was very insightful. So first of all, thanks for fucking
bringing it, because if you hadn't been here today, I
would have been like, yeah, I would have had no compassion.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
For that other guy.
Speaker 4 (49:18):
Well, it's I just understand the situation. However, what you
said is very right. He's got to figure out what's
right for himself, whether dealing with all this cultural baggage,
whatever it is, it's all real. It's there for a reason. However,
if this person's not meeting you, they're not meeting you.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
You know it is what it is, right, right, Okay, Catherine,
what do we have to close out?
Speaker 5 (49:39):
All right?
Speaker 3 (49:40):
Well, I've got a question about tipping.
Speaker 5 (49:42):
So Regina says, I try to be a good tipper
tipping at least but usually over twenty percent. My dad,
on the other hand, is a horribly embarrassing tipper. Anytime
we go out to eat together, I overtip on my
bill and hide money under my plate to make up
for what he shorts them. A few weeks ago, at
a family dinner, tipping was brought up, and I explained
(50:03):
that you should tip well, especially if it's a slower
day for the restaurant, because of how little way staff
are paid by the hour. Minimum wage where we live
is two dollars and fifteen cents per hour. He couldn't
believe it was so low. He and his girlfriend googled
it and were blown away. She even said, Wow, that's
not much at all. Fast forward at dinner with him
and his girlfriend the following week, at a restaurant that
(50:23):
I visit weekly, he offered to buy my meal. It
was super sweet of him, and I was really thankful.
He's known to be really frugal in general, so him
offering to buy mine was a pretty big deal. Anyway,
after receiving fantastic service, when it came time to tip,
he looked at his girlfriend and said, I didn't bring cash,
did you?
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Have tip money.
Speaker 5 (50:41):
She pulled a thick stack of cash from her purse
and handed him a five dollar bill. Our bill was
eighty three dollars. Not only did he tip five dollars
on an eighty three dollars bill, he called for the
waiter and handed him his tip to ensure he got it.
I was so embarrassed, so much so that when they
were standing up to gather the things to leave, thinking
they were distracted, I turned to the waiter and said,
(51:01):
my dad's a horrible tipper. I don't have cash on me,
but I'll bring some back for you.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
Well.
Speaker 5 (51:06):
I turned around and my dad and his girlfriend were
looking at me with a look of disbelief. They clearly
had heard what I said. I could have crawled under
the table. I came back later that day and gave
the waiter a twenty. Them catching me talking to the
waiter has been weighing on me hard, and I feel awful.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
He was being nice by buying my dinner.
Speaker 5 (51:22):
We had a great time until the check came, but
he knows how I feel about tipping. I eat at
this restaurant a lot. I know the waiter well, and
I was so embarrassed. Am I the asshole for telling
the waiter i'd bring him more money and adding tip
money behind my dad's back. I know I should have
waited until we left to avoid being caught, and we'll
do that going forward, But really, should I let it
go and move on, or should I tuck my tail
and apologize for lying to his face?
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Ps?
Speaker 5 (51:45):
My dad is not hurting for money, it's just who
he is. Regina, No, Regina, you're totally in the right.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
In fact, I was gonna say, make sure you humiliate
him every time you go out to dinner and say,
I'm so sorry about my father's tip. Here's an extra
twenty dollars to make up for it. My father once
came into a restaurant that I was waiting tables in
and didn't leave.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Me a tip.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Like that's how vinerious my own father was. And wait,
I have an even better story. A few months ago,
I was doing some shows in the Hamptons in West Hampton,
and we, like my crew, and I went out before right.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
I had a bunch of friends there and my.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Assistant, one of my assistants, was with me, and he
always pays right, I get a DM We got to
this beautiful dinner they wrote, they send us all this
free food.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
They're so happy we're there. Couldn't have been more pleasant.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
I get home that night and I'm going through my
dms on Instagram and the server goes, was something wrong
with the service?
Speaker 2 (52:38):
You only left fifteen percent? And I was like, what, no.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
I all I do is talk about tipping. And I've
been a waitress.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
I know it. And I've run downstairs to car. We're
in the house. I run downstairs, I'm like, go out.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
You did only ten fifty eight percent at that fucking restaurant.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
And he's like what what. I'm like, this guy just
DM me look.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
And he's like, oh my god, oh my god. I
just tried to add it up quickly in my head
to go. You can never tip fifteen percent. It's got
to be, especially from someone who could afford it twenty
five percent, twenty five percent if you have money. I
understand a lot of people don't have excess cash. I
get that, but also you have to understand waitresses, servers
work on tips. So like he went back, he had
(53:22):
to go back with an envelope with more cash. The
next day, walk into the restaurant and be like, I'm
so sorry, I'm with Chelsea Handler.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
She got your DM. We're so sorry we did leave me.
Thanks for him for reading out too. Wolos goes to me.
He goes, I can't believe that guy DMed you. I go,
I can. I want him to. I want people to
tell me if I'm misbehaving. Absolutely, don't you agree, Kamil.
Speaker 4 (53:45):
It's better that he dmviewed and didn't tell his friends,
Like Chelsea Handler is a bad tipper. Yeah, like this
is way better. I could not agree with you more.
Fuck that dad, because that was going to be like,
maybe it's the financial situation. If he can afford it,
you have to tip. Well, it's a hard job. They're
bringing you your food. It's a hard job. And I've
(54:07):
worked in food service, and yeah, especially for us, you know,
people know we can afford it. We really have to.
But you have to tip at least twenty percent because
they don't make a living.
Speaker 5 (54:18):
Wage otherwise, right, right, twenty percent is like the minimum.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
And you also are paying taxes. You have to understand
servers are paying taxes. If you leave a tip on
a credit card, they're paying taxes on the amount that
you tip them. So it's always better to leave cash.
But keep that in mind, like they're not just getting
that tip scott free. They have to pay taxes on
that in almost every state, so it varies from state
to state and that changes all the time.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
But just keep that in mind when you are going
out to.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Eat and if you can't afford to tip, order some
fucking takeout, then you know, and then you could tip
ten percent or fifteen percent.
Speaker 5 (54:52):
Yeah, And I think one way around this and maybe
it will sort of like Jyre, something loose for your
dad is just to be like, even if you're covering
your own meal, I'll be like, let me get tip.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
I got absolutely to our person that wrote in you
should not be apologizing to your father for his bad tipping.
He just learned how much they make an hour, which
is less than three dollars, and he.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
Still wanted to tip five dollars on an eighty.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
Three dollars bill. No, why are you putting your tail
between your legs. His tail should be between his legs.
I would encourage you every time you go out to
dinner with your father to take out a twenty dollars
and go Dad, you're a terrible tipper.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
I'm sorry. Like it's embarrassing. That's the truth.
Speaker 4 (55:31):
When I go out with friends and they're like, I
want to cover it, I know which friends. I'm like,
all right, I'm gonna like to have to hide and
put some money down here because it is embarrassing. Tip
is not extra. Tip is part of what you owe
the restaurant.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Okay, Well, Comail, you've been an absolute pleasure. I love
talking to you. You're so great. Your stand up special
is so fucking funny. I hope you win a golden globe.
It's called night Thoughts you guys, It's on you.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
You can watch it Hulu. You can watch it on
Disney Hulu. Either one. And then he has a show?
Did I say? I said, I think you corrected me?
Speaker 3 (56:07):
Fall Out?
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Fallout?
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, fallout, but then Ella McKay correct Mackay.
Speaker 2 (56:13):
You said mackay. But I think it's McKay.
Speaker 4 (56:15):
I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
I think I think so too.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
Okay, come have a wonderful, wonderful day, and please extend
my good wishes to your wife too.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
You guys are a cute, cute couple.
Speaker 4 (56:29):
I will thank you. This was such a joy.
Speaker 2 (56:32):
I love it. Okay, have a great Thanks.
Speaker 8 (56:34):
Mail, The word of the week is pred election noun
an established preference for something. Your mother in law has
a pred election for sticking her nose where it doesn't belong.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
Pred election.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
I just announced all my tour dates.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
That's called the High and My I will be touring
from February through June, So go get your tickets now
if you want good seats and you want to come
see me perform, I will be on the High and
Mighty tour.
Speaker 3 (57:12):
Do you want advice from Chelsea?
Speaker 5 (57:13):
Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. Find
full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching
at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered
by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and be sure
to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com
I just announced all my tour dates. It's called the
Height and Mighty Tour. I'm coming to Washington, d c Norfolk, Virginia, Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Detroit, Michigan, Cleveland, Columbus,
and Cincinnati, Ohio, Denver, Colorado, Portland, Maine, Providence, Rhode Island, Springfield, Massachusetts, Chicago,
of Course, Indianapolis, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, Albuquerque, Masa, Arizona, Kansas City, Missouri,
(00:27):
Saint Louis, Missouri, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Nashville, Tennessee, Charlotte, North Carolina, Durham,
North of Carolina, Saratoga, California, Monterey, California, Modeesto, California, and
port Chester, New York, Boston, Massachusetts, Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington.
(00:48):
I will be touring from February through June, so go
get your tickets now. If you want to come see
me perform, I will be on the High and Mighty Tour.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Happy New Year, Catherine.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's New Year's Day.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Hi.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
I'm hoping it's nice and frosty and Whistler. It is
not frosty here in La.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Is it's nice and frosty.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Unfortunately, I have to head back to La today and
leave Whistler. But that's okay because I have to prep
for the Critics' Choice Awards.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's gonna be so great this year. I'm really excited.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I'm excited. I'm excited. It's always so fun to do,
so we'll just get right into it. This guy's another comedian.
He's probably now one of my favorite comedians after watching
his new special and after spending time with him. I
was doing a shoot with him a few months ago,
and he is an Oscar nominated writer, Emmy nominated and
SAG Award winning actor, and critically acclaimed producer and comedian
(01:41):
who's a critically acclaimed producer.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Please welcome Kumail Nanjianni.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
For Christmas, everybody, we brought you a Jew and then
a Pakistani.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Yes, you know, jerked over Minna night.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
That's you know, yeah exactly. Okay, Please welcome Kamail nan Gianni.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Did I say it right?
Speaker 6 (02:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
You said it right. You just didn't say it with
a lot of confidence. But that's okay.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Well, I mean the confidence precedes me, so I don't
even need the confidence.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Kamail nan Gianni.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
That's right, I did.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yes, I got the pleasure of hanging out with Kamail.
We were working on something with Kevin Hart. You know
that little nugget who just got nominated for a Golden Globe.
By the way, for his stand up special. I can't
think of anyone who deserves it less.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
And well, I also got nominated.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Oh my god, yes, yeah, I did not expect it.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
My specials not even out yet, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh my god. You know what.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I was watching it yesterday. I watched Kamail special. It's
called Night Thoughts. It's going to be on.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Hulu, right, yeah, December nineteenth on Hulu.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
December nineteenth, it comes out, you guys, And I was
watching a Kamal and I was like, you're going I
can't believe that you got nominated either.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I thought you wouldn't if it's not out yet, you
wouldn't qualify.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Yeah, the cutoff is like December thirty first. But yeah,
I had such a great time doing that thing with
you and Kevin.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Well, first of all, all, let's okay, now we're getting
all carried away. Okay, let's go back to that. We
filmed something with Kevin. We'll probably you'll hear about that later.
And another friend of ours Keegan and I hadn't really
hung out with you, Kamail, I guess ever, which is weird,
but I assumed I had. Anyway, we had a blast,
and Kevin just wanted me to be there because he
needed somebody to drink with because Kamal and Keegan were,
(03:22):
you know, acting like normal people. But we filmed something
around the stand up world and we had I had
a great time with you, camel.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
I had a great time with you. It was so funny,
and your and Kevin's dynamic is so funny to me.
I was laughing so much because you know, it's Kevin
Hart's obviously he's a He's an enterprise, right, He's not
even a celebrity.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
He's like an enterprise. Rent a car to be specific.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
A compact, he's but so he's surrounded by all these
people that he's the king of, right, and then you're
there and the entire time you are just picking on him.
It's so funny. I loved it so much.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Oh, I'm so glad.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I'm so glad you were there to witness it, because
it is really fun when he and I get together
and do stuff together because he just I think he
really enjoys the abuse he does.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
He does, I don't think he gets it very much.
He's just you know what's surprising about him, and I
don't know him that well either. That's the most I've
hung out with him, but I had hung out with
him more than I'd hung out with you. He's a
true comedian, like he's like, loves comedy. He approaches it
like a stand up. He really like so the ball
busting and stuff. He's not like an actor who does
(04:37):
stand up. I know he started off as a stand up,
but he's still a stand up.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, and he really respects the art of stand up,
and he really wants other people to succeed in stand up.
He enjoys watching it and he'll spit. When you see
this project, you'll see him watch comedians and then spit
back out their material to him. I was impressed actually
with him that day, and that doesn't happen frequently, so so.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
That was fun. But let's get back tonight.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Thoughts your stand up special which is just nominated for
a Golden Globe.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I didn't even look at the list.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I just saw Kevin posted to congratulate himself, So congratulations
to you, Kamal.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
And when I was watching it.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I was like, this, but you should definitely get nominated
because A you're so fucking funny, and you're so funny
in a non bro ick way. You're You're just you
make everything listen. I'm not into cats at all. I
don't want to see them or talk about them. And
you have a bit about cats that is just hilarious.
(05:35):
And it was the only time I've been actively listening
to a story about a cat for more than about
ten minutes.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
Thank you. You know you texted me yesterday like the
opening students that walk out. You sent me a video
of it, and I was like, oh, Chelsea's watching it.
And then I got really nervous because I think you're
really funny. I respect you, of course and all that.
I'm a fan, and I feel like comedians are the
best critics of stand up comedy because we see people
(06:06):
getting nominated all the time for stand up and you're like, well,
that person should have been nominated. It should not have
been nominated. They shouldn't have been nominated. But other comedians
really really know what good comedy is. So I was
really nervous. I don't care what critics say. I care
what comedians say. About it.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, And also I would say as a comedian, it's
very hard.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I don't know if this is true for you. Tell me.
I find it hard to watch stand up on TV
like Live.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You can get down with it, but watching people's specials
can always be a little bit tricky.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So that's why it was an extra pleasant surprise.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
I mean, I just was sitting here at my kitchen
counter watching on my iPod, and the very first thing
out of the gate that you talk about is the
very first thing I mentioned to you when I saw
you when we were doing our project. Which are the
muscles that are coming out of the back of your shoulders.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I don't know. Are those called rhomboids or are they
what are you?
Speaker 4 (07:01):
That's funny, They're called trapezoids, which is another ship so
you were close.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Well, there's two sets come out.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
There's two that come over here, come out of your shoulder,
and then his arm has an extra series or like
it's like a mountain range, like a mini mountain range
of muscles that comes out that I haven't seen before.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
I'm actually trying to bring it down, especially the traps.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
How long did it take you to acquire that body?
Because you had to do that for your superhero movies, right.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Yeah, I did it for my superhero movie. That took
about a year and a half. But when it really
went nuts was in the pandemic. Like I had a
full freak out in the year and a half that
I did not leave the house. I talked about it
a little bit in the special, and all I did
I worked out about four hours every day. I got
really obsessed with it. And that's when I like sort
(07:55):
of got really really super big.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
And you just that because you had nothing else going on, right, I.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Had nothing else going on, and it was the only
thing I could do where I could feel any kind
of progress. I was like, oh, I can lift this
weight today. I couldn't lift it last week, but I
can lift it today. Nothing else was happening, nothing else
was real. I couldn't feel like I was moving in
any direction except for working out. It's really the thing
that kept me tethered to sanity.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I understand that because you talk, you do address this
a little bit in your special, not related to the
muscle building and working out, but in being like nervous
for your wife because she was immune compromised during COVID.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
But I understand that too, because isn't it interesting?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And not to sound like a gym rap, but I
just want to say, I am from New Jersey, everybody,
so we already know this. So I have a predilection
for physical fitness. When you do a set, when you
do three sets of something, and you do the first
set and it's really challenging and hard, and then you
go back and you do the second set and it's easier,
you realize how quickly you can gain strength, and it
(08:58):
is quite a motivating factor.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
I think what I've learned most from it is like,
we limit ourselves all the time, I can't do that whatever,
And with working out, you realize how much of those
limits are based on our own the way we look
at ourselves, and not what other people tell you or
what even the world tells you. So yeah, it's I
mean I never thought i'd be buff, you know, And
the fact that I am, I was like, oh, maybe
(09:21):
what else is like available to me that I thought
wasn't available to me?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Accomplishable?
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Right?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Do your wife? Do you guys have more sex now
that you have a bigger body.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
No, we have the same amount of sex, which is
a very good, healthy amount of sex. But she does
it. It's like it's like fucking the corner of a building.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I like that a lot.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
It's it's you know, I hugged a buff guy the
other day who was like buffer than me, and I
was like, I know exactly what Emily means.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah, yeah, And how did that make you feel when
you've touched his body like that against your body?
Speaker 4 (09:59):
I did. It didn't feel good. It's not like you
know Pete Holmes your buddies with Pete. I'm sure he
in one of his sets he talks about how like
a good hug is important, and he mentions me and says,
there's no Catharsis, like you need like cushion for a
good hug. And I finally understood what he meant when
I hugged this buff guy.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I don't listen. As a woman, I have to say,
I disagree completely. I don't want to hug a cushion.
I that I could do on my sofa when I
want a man who's got some muscles on him.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
He doesn't have to be.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
A beef cake like you. But I wouldn't turn that away.
I like muscles, I don't. I mean, you know, knowing
somebody spending that much time in the gym is a
different story.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah. Yeah, Well you tend.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
To just be naturally physically fit without doing anything.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
It is nerdy to like spend this much time doing this.
It's like you have to have. Emily was like, if
we first went out and you look like this, I
think there was something really wrong with you.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Okay, so let's talk about Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
First, I want to talk a little bit about the special,
because in this special you really do get emotional. Two
or three times you were teary eyed at the gratitude
you were feeling. Towards filming your special back in Chicago
where you started stand up, you filmed it at the
VIC Theater, So you started out as a stand up
and you remind people that you're not an actor trying
to do stand up or attempting to do stand up
(11:19):
off of the back of your success as an actor,
but that you began as a stand up. And you
also talk about you mentioned therapy a lot during the show,
which was really nice to hear from as a woman
hearing it from a straight man, it's always refreshing for
men to be talking about therapy. And then your cat's
name is Bagel, so let's start with your cat.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
How is she?
Speaker 4 (11:44):
She is not with us anymore?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Okay, great, great, great way to start.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So this is a great beginning and hopefully you'll be
able to I don't know, maybe you will cry.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Maybe I can make you cry, come out.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
You know what. We got a new you don't like cat,
so this won't be We got a new kitten a
month ago, and that was the first time I was like, oh,
it's okay. I don't you got it. You know, I've
got a new thing to focus on. And literally yesterday
when the newness of the new kitten sort of went away,
and I love this kitten, I started missing Bagel again
(12:18):
and I hadn't missed her for a month and I
just miss her. So but you know what, she was seventeen.
She led a great life. And you know it is
what it is. You do you have dogs? Are you
a pet person?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I do? And what I want to say to you
about this is I always have I always have a dog.
I always have one dog, and sometimes I have two dogs,
but as soon as one of them starts to go downhill,
I acquire another dog. Always because I don't have time
for grieving. I want to transfer my love to another
person or dog immediately, and I find that to be
in a great approach to you know, listen, rescue animals
(12:54):
or cats or dogs whatever, even if they're not rescues,
they're going to they're not going to be here forever.
And we know that going in, so you kind of
have to, like, I just want to kind of get
ahead of it. And it's not like it's a person.
I don't grieve for my animals like their people. I
don't think that my dog crosses the Rainbow Highway or
whatever when he goes to heaven.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
I don't talk like that. I just want them. I
love dogs.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I love having a dog in my house, and so
I'm very pragmatic about it. But I understand that other
people are much more sensitive.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I was.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I mean, she's the first pet I ever had, and
Emily and I have been married eighteen years and she's
been with us seventeen years, so it was always the
three of us, you know, so yeah, and I'm with you.
I don't think Mike, you know, people will be like, oh,
she's still with you, Like she's not. She's not with me.
I remember her, her memories are with me. But there's
no like spirit that's around. So I completely agree with you.
(13:51):
I was talking to Emily yesterday. I was like, we
should wait a few years and get another cat, just
exactly for the reasons you're mentioning, so that we have
like another after this one decides to go. You didn't cry.
You don't cry when your dog does.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Oh, I cry, but I don't mourn like my last
dog was actually a really ugly kind of death. And
I was sorry, thank you, and I just I cried.
I you know, it took her to the event.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
It was awful.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
It was dramatic, and it was like a three day event.
But I was able to recuperate pretty quickly. And I
also had this new dog, a new puppy that I
had rescued, So it was it was It's a good buffer.
But I just do want to say on behalf of
Bagel because I feel like I speak for her now.
You that tribute you made to her in your stand up,
I mean, this is a beautiful way to go out,
(14:39):
and it's a beautiful bookend to your love story with Bagel.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Oh, thank you. Yeah. The way it happened was so weird.
I was in New York doing this play. Oh, Mary Right, Oh, Mary, Yeah,
really have you seen it?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I have not seen it.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Sorry, yeah, I've seen it. I thought just I think
maybe just before you were in it. But I saw
it with Titu.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
It's really really funny, and I just loved being a
you know, you fucking kill every night you get a
standing ovation and it has nothing to do with you.
It's incredible. You're like, I'm literally just saying the word
someone else wrote and you think I'm a hero. It's
so fun. But the weird thing was we've had her
for seventeen years, you know, and she's like such an
important part of our life. She passes away Saturday morning.
(15:23):
Emily has to fly an hour later back to LA
to get a monthly treatment she has to get for
her autoimmune condition, and I have two shows that day,
So my cat dies at nine am. I'm on stage
at three pm and then again at eight pm. And
I never without Emily, and I never imagine it would
be like that. I thought when she would go, Emily
(15:44):
and I would like cocoon and be with each other
for two weeks. And we didn't even see each other
for another week. So it was like really really intense,
and I had this feeling, this is weird. As I
was doing the first show, like four hours after my
cat died, I was like ten minutes in and I
wasn't really feeling it wasn't going well, and I was like,
you know what, this show is my tribute to Bagel.
(16:04):
I owe it to her to be funny today. And
then that went great, and then the second one went
great because of that, I was like, I'm doing this
for her. And then Sunday was terrible. I was terrible
boat shows because I'd spent all night now alone in
an apartment without my cat or my wife, and I
was just miserable.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Well, it's nice to know that you're so sensitive, Comel.
I like that about you.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
Well, you know what, I realized, this is interesting. I
realized I'm the same person I was when I was fourteen,
and I always hated that part of myself. I hated
how sensitive I was, Like my feelings would get hurt
all the time, and that's not how men are supposed
to be, you know, It's not what strength is. And
I was very aware of it, and all through my
twenties and thirties, I was like, I'm a different person.
(16:47):
I've gotten over that I understand now I'm stronger, I'm cool,
like dress school, all this stuff, and I realized only
a few years ago into my forties. Now I'm still
the same guy I was when I was fourteen. I'm
just a senseive as I've always been. And it's not
good or bad. It's just what it is, and I
have to accept it. I have to accept that my
feelings get hurt very easily, and I have to acknowledge
(17:10):
that because trying to like get past it has not
worked for like fucking thirty years.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
And now, well, so tell me what it was like
when you were a kid growing up.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Were you able to communicate with your family and like
have this kind of emotional conversations or was that a
no no in your house?
Speaker 4 (17:26):
It was a no no, But I think it was
self limited, Like my parents were not like that. My
dad actually is a very emotional guy and always has been.
And I've seen him cry, you know, like I know
people like my wife was like, I've seen my dad
cry twice when his mother died and when his wife died.
I've seen my dad cry hundreds of times. And when
(17:47):
I was a little kid, I really hated that he
would cry. I was like, oh, my dad's like I
was like, my dad's a pussy. I did not like
that he cried, and he was always very affectionate, like
he would kiss up and you know, it was very
like emotionally, very very communicative. But for me, I did
not like that about him. And now when I look back,
(18:09):
I'm so grateful that I had him as like a
model for how to be like a man who is
connected with his feelings. I was not connected with my feelings,
and I had a real anger issue. I would say
probably from the age of ten to kind of all
through my twenties and a lot of my thirties as well.
But really, when I was thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, I was
a nice guy. Nobody saw it except my parents. But
(18:32):
when I would get angry, and I was so angry,
I wanted to burn the world and I could not.
It was this horrible feeling of being completely out of control.
And I think all of that came out of not
being able to address the fact that I was sensitive,
that my feelings got hurt very easily, and that anger
was something that I really started didn't start working on
(18:53):
until I was in my thirties, when Emily and I
were together, and sometimes we'd get into fights and I
would just go to this place that did not feel
like me. And what I had to do was I
would feel like I'd have to get to the point
and say the thing that you cannot take back, and
then that would break it. It would break the spell,
and then I would feel awful and the guilt would
(19:15):
be just like punishing myself for what I said. And
then so it was like the cycle I was in.
And it wasn't until like, you know, a few years
ago in my forties when I really started late thirties actually,
I would say mid to late thirties when I started
like trying to be like and it started an acting class.
I was taking an acting class, and I was like, oh,
(19:35):
there's a lot more in here than I realize, and
I need to start excavating it, because that's I owe
it to Emily first, even before I owe it to myself.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, it's so nice to hear you say that because
I can relate to that, like it's kind of unskilled emotions,
like you don't know yet what you're dealing with, and
you address this in your special too, which is really beautiful,
beautiful moment and don't get confused with beautiful moments in a.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Stand up special. They're allowed for our listeners. I love that.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I love that it's you know, not just all joke joke, joke,
joke joke. It's plenty funny, with a lot of like
feeling in it and a lot of messaging that needs
to get through. But I think you know, you're talking
about a cycle of anger, which whichever you know, so
many people have, and it can escalate to a level
where like that's the same cycle as an abusive person.
(20:24):
You know, when somebody's abusive physically, they go, they go,
and they go, they get mad, mad, mad mad. Then
they pop and then they're overwhelmed with guilt and they
come back and they're apologizing and they're so sorry.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
But it's it's something that everyone can relate to.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
It's just different varying degrees of anger and how you
express it and then finding out finding out from a
therapist that your anger is really fear or sadness. You know,
it's like the it's the it's like the the jacket
that your fear, sad sadness wears to protect itself.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
So this is something that you because I always think
of you as like you're like a badass, strong person, right,
Like I've never thought of you as someone who was
soft or anything. Is this something that you sort of
figured out about yourself too?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah, I had to go to I had like a
real break at like when I turned forty. I was like, oh,
I was so angry, I'm so angry, and like I
was protecting I mean, it was like Trump got elected,
so it was like I had some place to place
my anger, right.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I was like, that's why I hate this world, this
is it, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
But really, when I delved into therapy, I found out
it was a lot about my childhood. My brother died
when I was really young. I had delayed grief. I
had never spoken to anybody or anybody that could really
unwrap that with me. So I learned very early on
that my emotional outbursts, much like yours, were just me
(21:52):
being scared or me being really sad and not feeling
comfortable with expressing either of those emotions. So you find
the emotion you are comfortable with, and for many of us,
it's anger, because then you're like, oh, okay, well this
is still protective. I'm protecting myself, But it does feel
like shit after you lose your shit.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
It does because the anger FA is facing outwards. You know,
you're like, instead of dealing with your own sadness or fear,
you're like directing into outwards. That's something And I've noticed
this a lot on social media. Obviously there's a lot
wrong with the world, and there's a lot of like
righteous anger that should be directed at it. But I
see certain people that I'm like, Okay, the target is right,
(22:33):
but there's a lot more going on with you right now,
Like this isn't just about politics or whatever we're headed
or whatever. It is, like there's stuff inside you that
you need to deal with because it's and you've decided
that it's really about this thing, but it's more about you.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, I would say that's in astute observation as well,
because you know, you know, you go through like I
went through like a jaunt of therapy that was like
two years intense, and then after that I was like, Okay,
let me take a break and try to absorb all
of this and like apply it to my life so
I can soften my edges and be more of a
whole person rather than just kind of coming across as
(23:09):
like this bulldozer and strong, and then you you know
that takes a bit of time too, to adjust your
personality because you're like, who am I now?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Am I the same person? Or am I a different person?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
And you're kind of trying to take the best parts
of your personality and bring them into the present.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
And then you're like, but how do I get rid
of the bad parts?
Speaker 5 (23:30):
You know?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
And it's it's not it's like it's just always a
moving puzzle.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
Yes, that's very well put.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But I was reading this book recently and it was
talking about intergenerational trauma, which is something we all suffer from,
and I'm like, oh, fuck, now we've got to deal
with my fucking generation with all these families, like we're
in the Holocaust. I got to go through this now,
I'm like, intergenerational trauma, that's too much for us to
deal with in one lifetime.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Yeah, that's not my shit. They should have dealt with
the That's the other thing you realize is like, you
know how much we get from therapy, And then realized, like,
my parents have never had this once. They've never once
had a therapy session, and it's like it'd be so much.
We'd all be so much happier if you guys were
able to do that. Like my dad, who's absolutely wonderful,
(24:15):
really in touch with his feelings, but there was like,
like I mentioned this car accident that he was in,
and he for two weeks he was just like really
depressed because he got so scared. And I was like, Dad,
you should talk to somebody. He's like nope, nope, nope,
and then he just kind of muscled through it and
then a month later he was like, Okay, I'm fine now.
(24:36):
So whatever the process was he did, I don't know
how deep he buried it or whatever, but it's like
they just it just feels like I've to a lot
of people therapy is a defeat and it's really not.
It's just what is required. We're really fucking complicated and
we're dealing with a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I know, and we're dealing with a lot, but there's
been so many generations that have come before us that
never dealts with anything. So the argument that we have
to deal with that is kind of like, well, why
maybe I could just go through my life and not
deal with anything and be a miserable son of a
bitch for the last you know.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Twenty or thirty.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Like my dad his last fifteen twenty thirty years, he
was just angry, just angry, angry, angry. And I'm like, oh, well,
if he had had therapy and become like a self
actualized person, he probably would have been a lot different.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
But to what availed.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Right, Like, we sit here kind of like you know,
like navel gazing. People are like, oh it's you.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Know, especially La.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
As soon as you come to La, it doesn't matter
what country or cultural background you're from, you end up
in therpy.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah, it's too much. People here are too self actualized.
Some of these people need to start bottling shit up again.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Do you and your wife go to couple therapy?
Speaker 4 (25:47):
We have? We don't anymore. We did. I think we
started in the pandemic and we did it for about
a year, started off every week and then every other week,
and it was really really remarkable. First of all, you know,
Emily and I are both very smart people and we
pride ourselves on that. And we were talking to this
(26:08):
therapist and we were like, I think she's smarter than us,
Like she really fucking knows us, and it's and it sucks,
it sucks that she's so smart. But she gave us
basically the tools. We realized, if you really want to
get into it, that as couples we were stuck in
the same patterns from like the beginning of our relationship.
(26:30):
And there's two sort of things. One we met she
was in the audience, I was on stage. So even
though there's never been a hierarchy between us, there's never
been like a dominant one. But because of that she
had a day job, I was following my dreams. That
pattern became very established in our lives, where like, she
basically makes sacrifices for me, and we'd been living that
(26:52):
for over ten years. That thing where it wasn't equal,
it was kind of one way. And the other thing
is when she got sick, which we you know, we
made a movie called The Big Sick about it, and
it's mentioned in the special when she got sick. That
pattern that developed from that ultimately ended up being replayed
(27:14):
over and over and over and over in our relationship.
And we didn't realize that. We thought we were over it,
but it wasn't until talking to the therapist we were like, oh,
all our all of our problems go back to those
two things. One that she sort of sacrifices herself for
my needs and goals. And two I sort of feel
(27:34):
like I need to control her so she won't get
sick again.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Oh yeah, that's really interesting. And how do you address that?
Speaker 4 (27:44):
I think trust. I have to trust that she understands
how to not make herself get sick. I was just
very judgmental when she was like, you know, be out
late at night or whatever, where I was like, any
of these things can trigger another episode, how dare you
do this to yourself? Like that was the thinking, that
was the feeling, and it just got to and she's
(28:05):
been for years being like you have to trust me
in hower to take care of myself over and over,
but understanding that, like, oh that's what this is. It's
really it's really about trust, That's what it was. And
the other thing we did was, you know, as traditionally
a very closed off man, there was just a lot
of times I would not admit things to her, like
(28:26):
if I'm starting a new job, I'm nervous. Am I
good enough? Or they're going to find out I suck?
Whatever it is. I would keep that to myself and
I was just really anxious all the time. And then
I started like really telling her like, Hey, I'm starting
this new job and I'm really scared, and I thought
saying it out loud would make that thing more real.
It's the opposite. It makes it less, it takes its
power away. And then we did this thing where I
(28:49):
think for a couple months, every day we had to
share three vulnerable things about ourselves that we had not
told the other person about, big thing, small things, whatever
it is, and that really really helped. And now the
goal between us truly is one hundred percent transparency, Like
and that could be you know, I'm scared, or it
(29:10):
could be like, hey, I was at this place with
this girl hit on me like all everything we say everything.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Wow, and how does that?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So I'm sure that makes their relationship even stronger. It's
interesting what you just said about naming something and saying
it out loud, because you know, there's a philosophy a
lot of people have that whatever you focus is on
get gets bigger, right, or whatever you focus on gets bigger,
and actually even saying something out loud.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Can make it bigger.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
But I also am of the same I subscribe to
the same philosophy you do that when you do say
it out loud, it also can dissipate.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
So it's interesting because Catherine, this has come up a
lot on the show.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
You know, like whatever you focus on gets bigger, Like
if you're obsessing over something like Camail. I guess this
applies to keeping it in because like Cameil, if you're
obsessing about being not good enough for a role or
are you gonna fit in or is the director gonna
think you're you know, good enough, if you're focusing and
hyper focusing on that, then that will get bigger and
you will kind of it will impact your performance. But
(30:11):
I guess by saying it out loud, there's a way
that you can release that.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
Yeah, and you're inviting another voice into the conversation because
otherwise it's not silence. It's you talking to yourself. Judge,
you know, you know myself talk towards myself has traditionally
been so negative. Like I heard someone else say this,
like if my friends talk to me this way, I
would not be friends with them anymore. And so it's
not silence. It is a it's a dialogue. It's a monologue,
(30:40):
just me saying all this shit to myself, inviting another
voice into it to counter that was really really helpful
because she can bring perspective, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, yeah, So talk to me about your two other projects.
You have a movie, Ellen mackay, and you have a
show a TV showed Fallout.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
So Ellen McKay is a movie directed by Jims l So.
It's one of my favorite filmmakers. I mean, you know,
in terms of endearment, Broadcast News.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Terms of Endearment as my favorite movie of all time.
There is no way to get through that movie. It's
like watching Hamnet. Have you seen Hamnet?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Yet? But yeah, oh.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
God, I mean, I just love when something makes me ball.
I was watching it.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I'm up in my house and Whistler and I was
watching it last night and I was just bawling on
the sofa and my dog Doug kept coming over.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
But I love crying like that. It's such a release,
It truly is.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Terms of Endearment is the same.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
There is no way that hospital scene with Debah Winger
saying goodbye to her children that you can keep your
shit together and if you do your fucking evil.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
That part was she's telling the sun is angry, and
she's telling him like, I know you love me, You're
gonna beat yourself up over this. Don't you're being shitty
to me right now, but I know you love me.
That's such a good guy right now, I know. I
asked Jim the director about it, and he's like, that
scene is why I made the mo so I could
(32:01):
film that scene. Yeah, it's beautiful, and so he directed it.
And it's got a wildcast. It's got Albert Brooks and
Jamie Lee Curtis and Emma Mackie plays the lead and
she's phenomenal, Jack Loud and Woody Harrelson. I don't know
if I mentioned Jamie Lee kurt Anyway, it's incredible cast.
I have not seen the film yet, but that one
(32:21):
was just like, you know, got to meet a bunch
of my heroes and really really really exciting. And then
Fallout is a TV show based on a video game.
Video game I love, and I love the first season
of the show. I'm in season two for a few episodes.
And the creator of that one of the creators of
the TV show was a guy who wrote for Silicon
Valley and before that he wrote for Portland Ya. And
(32:42):
I just made this decision a few years ago where
I was like, I'm just gonna be shameless about this.
I watched the first season. I texted him and I
was like, hey, man, I love the show. If you
ever got anything, let me know. I just asked people
directly that I like want to work with them. And
then a couple of weeks later he just called me
and he was like, hey, I got this part he
pitched to me. He's like, do you want to do it?
And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. And
(33:04):
that's what that was really really fun.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Oh wow, I like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
I like asking people directly too for things. It just
cuts out the middleman.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Yeah, and then you know, like you know, if they
don't want you in it, they won't put you in it.
And that's fine too.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Do you feel like, since you've been in this industry
now for a good amount of time, do you feel
like your confidence has You've gained a lot of confidence?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
Oh? What a good question. You know, I've never felt confident.
I did this show years ago and one of the
other guests was like, and this is going to sound
like a negative question, and it wasn't. She was like,
how are you so confident? And it does sound negative.
I was like, Oh, I guess that's something I project
And at that time, especially, I did not feel confident.
(33:47):
I just sort of seemed confident, I guess because so
much of my life was like it sort of comes
from wanting to be a man and not feeling like
a man. Like I changed my walk, you know, I
changed the way I talk when I was a little kid,
like I wanted to be more manly. So I think
it sort of comes from that. I feel more confident
now in that in the last few years, I've learned that,
(34:10):
like I was saying earlier, the limitations I've put on
myself were just exactly that I'd put them on myself.
And I've grown more confident in my ability to in
my ability to learn things and to learn things from
the people around me, you know. So I would say
that's really it's not confidence, it's a more I trust
myself to be able to pick things up because I
(34:33):
know I can work really hard, like I've always had
that since I was a little kid. I was like,
I'm not the smartest, I'm not the best at sports,
I'm not the best looking, but I can work harder
than anybody else. And so that's kind of where my
I guess confidence comes from, is my ability to learn
and my desire to learn, and also just knowing that
I can work.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Really hard and your traps and they come from your traps.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
And we're going to take a break and we're going
to come back and do some calls with Kamail Nanjianni.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
And we're back with Knal nan Gianni. Let's go, Catherine,
what do we got?
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (35:10):
Well, our first caller is Dylan and he's twenty eight.
Dear Chelsea, I started dating this guy this year and
things have been going great. I drive an hour and
a half multiple times a week just to see him.
I never ask for gas, money or anything, and I
do it because I genuinely care about him. He always
tries his best to make me happy and constantly tells
(35:30):
me he loves me. Until today I felt the same.
I brought my dog over to his house, which he
said was totally fine, but when we arrived, his entire
mood suddenly shifted. He got all quiet and weird, and
suddenly he started telling me that my dog was no
longer welcome in his house and that he's interrupting his
space and peace.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
I immediately left.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
There are some cultural differences between us, but my dog
is my best friend and has been with me through
everything over the past five years.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
My dog is not going anywhere. Is this a deal breaker? Ps?
I'm a people.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
Please our learning boundaries. Thanks Dylan and Dylan. I think
has some updates for us too.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Hi, Dylan, this is Kamail, not Gioannny, our special guest.
Speaker 6 (36:09):
Hey, nice to meet you guys. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Sure what are your updates?
Speaker 4 (36:14):
So?
Speaker 7 (36:14):
Okay, I found out he's been married for like I
don't know how long. He never told me, but he
told me like eight months in and I was like,
why do you tell me now? And he was like, oh,
you seem like you're level headed. And I didn't go
off like I normally would. I've tried to grow, you know,
as I get older, But I was like, why wouldn't
you tell me? And he was like, it's not a
big deal, Like where are you mad?
Speaker 1 (36:34):
What? Wait?
Speaker 4 (36:35):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Was he had he been married or is he's married now?
Speaker 7 (36:38):
He's still married technically, but it's it's for like he said,
for the documentation, but he kept it a secret. So
I'm like, if we're being honest, which we told each
other like in the beginning, like that's what we're gonna do.
I was like, that's a big thing that you should
tell me in the beginning, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Yeah, I had the balls for him to be like,
why are you upset that I'm married and didn't tell you?
Speaker 7 (37:04):
Yeah? And he actually like so nonchalant about it. And
I was like, that's a huge thing to me, because
like I've been nothing but honest with him.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Well, it's a huge thing to anyone. Yes, absolutely, him
being nonchalant about it is him like trying to like
dial down your reaction to that.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yes, like he wouldn't get married.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
I also, you know, have STDs just herpies, Like it's
just like throwing something.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Under the carpet.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
I have a follow up, two follow ups. Yes, you
said cultural differences. What do you mean by that he's Punjabi?
I was gonna ask if he's Indian or Pakistani? And
so there's a couple of things there. One at least
pakistanis we don't have dogs as pets, like that's very
very rare. And I grew up with dogs on the
(37:52):
streets of Karachi, like rabbit dogs chasing me. So I
was scared of dogs and did not like dogs until
I moved here. And then a few years ago and
now I love all animals and I love dogs as well.
It took a while to reset that relationship, and so
I think for specifically the dog part of the equation,
(38:12):
it's just he needs to like understand and get over
it because it's not coming from him. It is genuinely
a cultural thing and that stuff takes some deprogramming.
Speaker 7 (38:24):
Another big thing is he works seven days a week,
like thirteen hours, and like I've told I've asked, like
can I get one day of your time? And He'll
be like, yeah, I promise, and it never happens. So
like he's so family focused, which I love, but he's
convinced that like if he doesn't support his family, like
something's bad is going to happen. And in doing so,
(38:45):
he's pushed me away, like he's not willing to put
in the effort. Like I feel like I want him
to understand me and everything, but he doesn't even understand
or know himself. He hasn't had the time because it's
so like survival focused.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Well, let me ask you this, is he married to
a woman, yes, And is it like a visa situation.
Speaker 6 (39:05):
He had I believe.
Speaker 7 (39:06):
So he's been kind of quiet he hasn't really filled
me in a lot on it, but he's not like
romantically with her.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Yeah, so that's a thing that happens where people marry
for green cards and then it really is like a
business relationship. So I see, he should have still told
you from the beginning because in his head this relationship
is different from the way the relationship is to the
way it sounds is different than it is in his head.
In his head, it truly isn't a big deal. He
(39:34):
should have told you. I'm not apologizing for him, but
I know this situation. The other thing is he so
he has like a Punjabi Indian family. Have you ever
met them?
Speaker 7 (39:45):
No, But he's told his cousins that he has a girlfriend.
So I'm the girlfriend in his mind.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
So see that's the other thing. Is sorry, Chelsea, I
feel like I'm really monigious.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
It's like, first of all, I had no idea. You
had esp so this is perfect. He's like a pod reader.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Well I just have been see this like for me,
you know, my wife is white. My brother is getting
married to a white person next weekend. It took, it
really took. I hid from my parents that I was
dating her, and because culturally, it's not okay. And it
didn't come out until my wife got really sick, like
(40:24):
when we were first dating, and at that point I
was just too emotionally exhausted to not tell them about her,
and that's what prompted it. Otherwise I don't know how
long it would have taken. So I think that's the
stuff he may not be out to his family. And
if he isn't out to his family, yeah, so you know,
there's like a weird thing here again not taking his side.
(40:46):
Emily took years to figure out that she's never going
to understand the cultural the relationship that we have with
our culture and the relationship we have with our parents
and family because of our culture. And this is something
that I'm seeing my brother who's now about to get married,
I'm seeing his fiance dealing with it. Or you're trying
(41:07):
to sort of understand this stuff. And at some point
for Emily it was like you just have to accept it.
There's some stuff that you just do not have access to,
Like there are so many things that I can't be
honest in front of my parents about and she's like, well,
it's going to be complete honesty, and I'm like it's
really not like that, Like it really isn't It's kind
(41:27):
of impossible. So for him coming out, you know, that's
a personal journey, like somebody. People have to decide when
they're ready to do that. Of course he's being a
coward about it, but it's I would say, it's sadly,
got nothing to do with you. It's got to do
with his own situation, and it is a complicated situation,
(41:48):
and of course he should come out. But there's a
lot at play culturally, Like this is like heavy old shit,
you know.
Speaker 7 (41:55):
Yeah, Like for me, I don't mind that, Like he's
not out to his family. It's more like he keeps
telling me I'll make time for you, and it's like
the empty promises, Like I keep getting resentments for him,
and I don't want that. It's not good for him
or me.
Speaker 4 (42:10):
No, that's fear too, you know. It's it's how I
was with Emily when we were first dating. I was
scared of getting too close to her. We had this rule.
Emily mentioned it to me two days ago. We were
laying in bed in the morning and she was like,
remember when you had this rule that we couldn't see
each other two days in a row and I was like,
oh my god, why did you put up with this?
And seriously, yeah, it was fear. It was fear. I
(42:34):
was scared, like if I get too close to her
that I have to tell my parents. And my parents
accepted her and they're wonderful and they're very close. But
with some families from Pakistan India, the threat of being
excommunicated from the family is very real. Like I lose
situations where they're like they just never talked to each other.
Speaker 7 (42:54):
Again. Yeah, I have a lot of friends that are
like Hindu and sick, so like I get that, but
like I struggle with I feel like I do everything
for him, and I mean I do it because I
want to, but also there comes a point where you
got to you have to meet somebody in the middle.
And I feel like he cares about me, but like
he's also like his behavior is like I don't care.
Speaker 4 (43:16):
How long have you guys been together?
Speaker 7 (43:17):
A little over nine months, that's one. But he asked
me out and in my mind, like now, I'm like,
why would you do that if you know you're not
emotionally developed or ready. I think he lacked that because
I called him crying the other night, and he was like,
I'm not going to talk to you if you're crying.
Speaker 6 (43:35):
He's like, I'll thought.
Speaker 7 (43:36):
He was like, I hang up on my mom when
she's crying. I don't want to deal with that.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
Well, so I guess there's two. There's two things here. One,
a lot of this behavior has nothing to do with you.
It feels like he has some personal growth to do
and a lot of cultural stuff to deal with that
can only be dealt with once he's achieved that personal
growth mm hm. And two, I guess you decide whether
that's something you want to hang around for.
Speaker 7 (44:03):
Yeah, Like, he's such a good person, but I don't
know how much I can deal with more.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Listen, Kamal has shed a lot of light on this
a lot of light that I would not have been
able to shed. So I'm very grateful that he's here
to help you today. So Catherine, great for lining up
these questions specific also for this episode where we have
someone who is more well versed in all of this cultural.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Stuff that you have to deal with.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
So while you can have come compassion for him and
understand that his culture is plays such a big role
in his life, his relationship with his family all of
these things, even the relationship with dogs, like Kamail telling
us that is like it really sheds a lot of light,
but it doesn't really excuse it doesn't really make you.
You're not there just to wait until he starts to
(44:47):
get his shit together. There's a couple of things that
are not really tolerable. One is like an unwilling to
be open to trying to understand your relationship with your
animal because that's your dog is not going anywhere. The
other thing that is real, like really not acceptable is
for you to be upset and him not to be
able to have the emotional bandwidth to deal with your upsetness,
(45:10):
Like you crying can't be a reason for him to
hang the phone up.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
So I think like.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
There are some boundaries that he's crossed that it might
be helpful for you to write it write down rather
than having a conversation about and saying these are the
things that I'm not okay with. It's been nine months.
I understand culturally even you know, relay what you learned
on this phone call, but also just say like these
are kind of things that are non negotiable for me.
(45:35):
So if you can't make the effort like to actually
figure out how we can take the next steps and
you can be more open to my personality, to my lifestyle,
to my culture where we can kind of join our
cultures together. Then there's a lot of red flags here,
and I understand where you come from, but you also
need to do some work.
Speaker 7 (45:57):
Yeah, I need to get it together.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
Because well, like not you him, he needs to get
it Yeah.
Speaker 6 (46:04):
True, but you.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Do need to get it together too, because you're letting
somebody be craven around you, like yeah, cowardly, and you're
letting them cross into your emotional space and it's it's
not making you feel good. So you have to actually
set a boundary and if he can meet it, great,
If he can meet it and say, okay, I'm ready
to do the work.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
You know, this has been nine months. We've been you know,
shown that we have a lot to work towards and
build on. Great. But if he can't, then that's your answer.
Speaker 6 (46:33):
I don't know if he's willing to put in the work.
Speaker 7 (46:34):
And I think I think I know in my heart
what I need to do, But it's that people pleasing
part of me that like wants to hold on to
the littlest thing but in doing so, I hurt myself
and it's not worth it.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah, you have to be If you're not advocating for yourself,
no one will. So you really have to prioritize yourself
in every relationship that you have to be the best,
to be the most honest, to be compassionate, to be empathetic.
All of the things that you're bringing to the table
you need returned.
Speaker 4 (47:02):
I was gonna say, I mean, you know, him not
being able to talk to you when you are crying,
says about he's terrified of his own emotions. Obviously he
doesn't know how to deal with that. That can come
from cultural stuff. But it's like Chelsea's saying, part of
me when I became a grown up one of the things.
And this is going to sound this is not applicable
(47:23):
to your current situation, but I realized, like, just because
I know this is again not to your situation, just
because I know why someone sucks doesn't mean they don't suck. So,
for instance, I would see someone who is a dick
and I'd be like, oh, it's because you're like scared
of this other thing. Doesn't matter. You're still affecting me
the same way, And you got to deal with your shit.
And I look at every relationship I have in my life,
(47:45):
romantic friends, whatever, very practically I look at it and
I think, am I putting in more than I'm getting
out of this? And obviously there are times where your
friends are going through the thing, you know, and there's
an imbalance, and that's totally fine. But overall I've had
I've ended friendships because I'm like, it's been years and
I've just put in more than I get out and
I just have to end this friendship. And I think
(48:07):
it's extra truth for romantic situations.
Speaker 7 (48:10):
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you there. I think
just sticking to what I know and what I need
to do is going to be something I need to
focus on, especially like if I want to be happy
and like have a good future, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Absolutely, you set the standards like for how people treat you,
So I really would advise putting in an email like
and really just a thoughtful explanation of where you are
and what you expect and if he can't deliver it,
no problem. But we're not going to continue in a
romantic relationship.
Speaker 6 (48:39):
No, no resentments. It is what it is, you know,
what I mean, no harm, no foul.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Yeah, and keep us posted. Will you please let us
check in?
Speaker 6 (48:48):
Yes, I will do a follow up. Thank you guys. Okay,
I love meeting you. Bye, thank you guys.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
We're going to take a.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Break and come back and wrap up. Maybe we have
a quick one Catherine to wrap up. Yes, okay, great, okay,
So we'll take a break and we'll be right back
with Kameel Gianni and we're back with Kamal Camel. That
was very insightful. So first of all, thanks for fucking
bringing it, because if you hadn't been here today, I
would have been like, yeah, I would have had no compassion.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
For that other guy.
Speaker 4 (49:18):
Well, it's I just understand the situation. However, what you
said is very right. He's got to figure out what's
right for himself, whether dealing with all this cultural baggage,
whatever it is, it's all real. It's there for a reason. However,
if this person's not meeting you, they're not meeting you.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
You know it is what it is, right, right, Okay, Catherine,
what do we have to close out?
Speaker 5 (49:39):
All right?
Speaker 3 (49:40):
Well, I've got a question about tipping.
Speaker 5 (49:42):
So Regina says, I try to be a good tipper
tipping at least but usually over twenty percent. My dad,
on the other hand, is a horribly embarrassing tipper. Anytime
we go out to eat together, I overtip on my
bill and hide money under my plate to make up
for what he shorts them. A few weeks ago, at
a family dinner, tipping was brought up, and I explained
(50:03):
that you should tip well, especially if it's a slower
day for the restaurant, because of how little way staff
are paid by the hour. Minimum wage where we live
is two dollars and fifteen cents per hour. He couldn't
believe it was so low. He and his girlfriend googled
it and were blown away. She even said, Wow, that's
not much at all. Fast forward at dinner with him
and his girlfriend the following week, at a restaurant that
(50:23):
I visit weekly, he offered to buy my meal. It
was super sweet of him, and I was really thankful.
He's known to be really frugal in general, so him
offering to buy mine was a pretty big deal. Anyway,
after receiving fantastic service, when it came time to tip,
he looked at his girlfriend and said, I didn't bring cash,
did you?
Speaker 3 (50:40):
Have tip money.
Speaker 5 (50:41):
She pulled a thick stack of cash from her purse
and handed him a five dollar bill. Our bill was
eighty three dollars. Not only did he tip five dollars
on an eighty three dollars bill, he called for the
waiter and handed him his tip to ensure he got it.
I was so embarrassed, so much so that when they
were standing up to gather the things to leave, thinking
they were distracted, I turned to the waiter and said,
(51:01):
my dad's a horrible tipper. I don't have cash on me,
but I'll bring some back for you.
Speaker 4 (51:05):
Well.
Speaker 5 (51:06):
I turned around and my dad and his girlfriend were
looking at me with a look of disbelief. They clearly
had heard what I said. I could have crawled under
the table. I came back later that day and gave
the waiter a twenty. Them catching me talking to the
waiter has been weighing on me hard, and I feel awful.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
He was being nice by buying my dinner.
Speaker 5 (51:22):
We had a great time until the check came, but
he knows how I feel about tipping. I eat at
this restaurant a lot. I know the waiter well, and
I was so embarrassed. Am I the asshole for telling
the waiter i'd bring him more money and adding tip
money behind my dad's back. I know I should have
waited until we left to avoid being caught, and we'll
do that going forward, But really, should I let it
go and move on, or should I tuck my tail
and apologize for lying to his face?
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Ps?
Speaker 5 (51:45):
My dad is not hurting for money, it's just who
he is. Regina, No, Regina, you're totally in the right.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
In fact, I was gonna say, make sure you humiliate
him every time you go out to dinner and say,
I'm so sorry about my father's tip. Here's an extra
twenty dollars to make up for it. My father once
came into a restaurant that I was waiting tables in
and didn't leave.
Speaker 2 (52:05):
Me a tip.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Like that's how vinerious my own father was. And wait,
I have an even better story. A few months ago,
I was doing some shows in the Hamptons in West Hampton,
and we, like my crew, and I went out before right.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
I had a bunch of friends there and my.
Speaker 1 (52:20):
Assistant, one of my assistants, was with me, and he
always pays right, I get a DM We got to
this beautiful dinner they wrote, they send us all this
free food.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
They're so happy we're there. Couldn't have been more pleasant.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
I get home that night and I'm going through my
dms on Instagram and the server goes, was something wrong
with the service?
Speaker 2 (52:38):
You only left fifteen percent? And I was like, what, no.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
I all I do is talk about tipping. And I've
been a waitress.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
I know it. And I've run downstairs to car. We're
in the house. I run downstairs, I'm like, go out.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
You did only ten fifty eight percent at that fucking restaurant.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
And he's like what what. I'm like, this guy just
DM me look.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
And he's like, oh my god, oh my god. I
just tried to add it up quickly in my head
to go. You can never tip fifteen percent. It's got
to be, especially from someone who could afford it twenty
five percent, twenty five percent if you have money. I
understand a lot of people don't have excess cash. I
get that, but also you have to understand waitresses, servers
work on tips. So like he went back, he had
(53:22):
to go back with an envelope with more cash. The
next day, walk into the restaurant and be like, I'm
so sorry, I'm with Chelsea Handler.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
She got your DM. We're so sorry we did leave me.
Thanks for him for reading out too. Wolos goes to me.
He goes, I can't believe that guy DMed you. I go,
I can. I want him to. I want people to
tell me if I'm misbehaving. Absolutely, don't you agree, Kamil.
Speaker 4 (53:45):
It's better that he dmviewed and didn't tell his friends,
Like Chelsea Handler is a bad tipper. Yeah, like this
is way better. I could not agree with you more.
Fuck that dad, because that was going to be like,
maybe it's the financial situation. If he can afford it,
you have to tip. Well, it's a hard job. They're
bringing you your food. It's a hard job. And I've
(54:07):
worked in food service, and yeah, especially for us, you know,
people know we can afford it. We really have to.
But you have to tip at least twenty percent because
they don't make a living.
Speaker 5 (54:18):
Wage otherwise, right, right, twenty percent is like the minimum.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
And you also are paying taxes. You have to understand
servers are paying taxes. If you leave a tip on
a credit card, they're paying taxes on the amount that
you tip them. So it's always better to leave cash.
But keep that in mind, like they're not just getting
that tip scott free. They have to pay taxes on
that in almost every state, so it varies from state
to state and that changes all the time.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
But just keep that in mind when you are going
out to.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Eat and if you can't afford to tip, order some
fucking takeout, then you know, and then you could tip
ten percent or fifteen percent.
Speaker 5 (54:52):
Yeah, And I think one way around this and maybe
it will sort of like Jyre, something loose for your
dad is just to be like, even if you're covering
your own meal, I'll be like, let me get tip.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
I got absolutely to our person that wrote in you
should not be apologizing to your father for his bad tipping.
He just learned how much they make an hour, which
is less than three dollars, and he.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
Still wanted to tip five dollars on an eighty.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
Three dollars bill. No, why are you putting your tail
between your legs. His tail should be between his legs.
I would encourage you every time you go out to
dinner with your father to take out a twenty dollars
and go Dad, you're a terrible tipper.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
I'm sorry. Like it's embarrassing. That's the truth.
Speaker 4 (55:31):
When I go out with friends and they're like, I
want to cover it, I know which friends. I'm like,
all right, I'm gonna like to have to hide and
put some money down here because it is embarrassing. Tip
is not extra. Tip is part of what you owe
the restaurant.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Okay, Well, Comail, you've been an absolute pleasure. I love
talking to you. You're so great. Your stand up special
is so fucking funny. I hope you win a golden globe.
It's called night Thoughts you guys, It's on you.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
You can watch it Hulu. You can watch it on
Disney Hulu. Either one. And then he has a show?
Did I say? I said, I think you corrected me?
Speaker 3 (56:07):
Fall Out?
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Fallout?
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, fallout, but then Ella McKay correct Mackay.
Speaker 2 (56:13):
You said mackay. But I think it's McKay.
Speaker 4 (56:15):
I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
I think I think so too.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
Okay, come have a wonderful, wonderful day, and please extend
my good wishes to your wife too.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
You guys are a cute, cute couple.
Speaker 4 (56:29):
I will thank you. This was such a joy.
Speaker 2 (56:32):
I love it. Okay, have a great Thanks.
Speaker 8 (56:34):
Mail, The word of the week is pred election noun
an established preference for something. Your mother in law has
a pred election for sticking her nose where it doesn't belong.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
Pred election.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
I just announced all my tour dates.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
That's called the High and My I will be touring
from February through June, So go get your tickets now
if you want good seats and you want to come
see me perform, I will be on the High and
Mighty tour.
Speaker 3 (57:12):
Do you want advice from Chelsea?
Speaker 5 (57:13):
Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. Find
full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching
at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered
by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and be sure
to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.