Outta My House with Martha Plimpton

Martha Plimpton joins Chelsea to talk about leaving her hometown, why abortion rights and trans rights go hand in hand, and the things you learn from young love.  Then: A newly-therapized daughter suddenly can’t stand her misogynist dad.  A 20-something keeps dating cheaters.  And a mom is losing her cool after her MIL moves in. 

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Abortion Resources - Get Help or Get Involved at https://abortionfunds.org 

NoKings Protests - NOKINGS.org 

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I just announced all my tour dates. They just went
on sale. It's called the Heighth and Mighty Tour. I
will be starting debuting my new material in February of
next year, so I'm coming to Washington, d c Norfolk, Virginia, Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Detroit, Michigan, Cleveland, Columbus,
and Cincinnati, Ohio, Denver, Colorado, Portland, Maine, Providence, Rhode Island, Springfield, Massachusetts, Chicago,

(00:27):
of Course, Indianapolis, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, Albuquerque, Masa, Arizona, Kansas City, Missouri,
Saint Louis, Missouri, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Nashville, Tennessee, Charlotte, North Carolina, Durham,
North of Carolina, Saratoga, California, Monterey, California, Modesto, California, and

(00:48):
port Chester, New York, Boston, Massachusetts, Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington.
I will be touring from February through June. Those are
the cities that I'm in. Pre sale started last week,
so tickets are flying. I haven't added second shows yet,
but we probably will be to some of these. So
go get your tickets now if you want good seats

(01:10):
and you want to come see me perform.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
I will be on the high and mighty tour.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
How's Spain?

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Spain is relaxing and reinvigorating and reduconating and regenerative with
an R.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
I am so glad to hear that. What are you
spending your time doing?

Speaker 5 (01:31):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Doug got arrested. I brought Doug. He is Apparently they're
not allowed.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
On the beaches dogs, but that's fulltient. So I'm just
ignoring every person that says that to me and pretending
that I don't understand what they're saying.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
This is where no oblo Espanol comes in real habit no.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
La Espanol right now.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
But he is wiped out every day. He is a
First of all, he goes in the water and he
drinks the salt water. So he hasn't gotten sick yet,
so I guess. But I think it puts him to
sleep or he's still jelacked. I can't tell. But he
loves it. We have a we had a vest for him,
but he doesn't really go far enough in for the vest.
So yeah, anyway, he loves the beaches. Somebody told me

(02:12):
I have to get up at before the lifeguards are
out at seven to take him on. He said, that's
when everyone goes out with their dogs. I'm like seven,
I'm on fucking vacation, buddy, you coming to get my
dog instead. It's not even light out at seven, right, right?
But yes, it's been a joy. Everywhere Doug goes, he's
treated like a lied the Lion King especially. I've noticed
though that it's discriminatory because when he's dry, people respect

(02:34):
him more because he's fluffier and more imposing, and when
he's wet he looks meek like a pussy.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
I mean, he is just a sweet boy.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
So I'm not surprised that he's getting a lot of
getting a lot of fans in your neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Baby, Yes, so that's happening. I know there's a lot
happening in America that I'm gonna miss this weekend, like
that No King's protest.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
Mmm.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
So let's remind our listeners that you can find one
in your area at no Kings dot org.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
And I'll put a link to that in the description.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yes, And I also want to let our listeners know
that I am going to boycott Home Depot since they
cooperate with ICE and they have these like scanning systems.
What is it called flock. I think it's called flock anyway,
They basically surveil you when you go there, and they
could share that information, make s tovail your license plates,
and they can share that information with ICE or the

(03:27):
police whoever they feel like and like that's not American,
And with everything that's happening with ICE, I am looking
for companies to boycott that are profiting from ICE. And
Home Depot is also backed by Peter Thiel who runs Palenteer,
who profits off of detention centers, emputty people engages. So
I am going to boycott that store. No one that

(03:48):
lives in my house is going to be purchasing anything
from Home Depot.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
We're a Loew's family from now on.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Low's is no good either.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
I Lows has some associations with ICE as well, So
we are not going You're going to ACE Hardware now,
I guess.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Okay, okay, I can get down with an ACE hardware.

Speaker 5 (04:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (04:07):
I know.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
Home Depot at least is also like one of the
major Trump donors out there, so so.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
And it's not about boycotting and soil they like meet
this like you know, requirements of not cooperating with ICE.
It's literally about like why we're in this situation and
this corporate cat you know, like capitalism, and that would
they they own us? And we have to start doing
things without all of these major corporations, which is going
to be really hard for people to do, myself included.

(04:35):
I mean, I'm relying on all of this stuff, but.

Speaker 5 (04:38):
We have to.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Neil Young had a post saying, like, we need to
buy locally. I know you don't think we can, but
we can. This is enough with corporate America. They are
you know, they're handing over our democracy. I didn't he
didn't see that for Radom, but that's what I took
away and I agree.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah, I mean, since we've been boycatting Target since the
beginning of the year, like I am just sort of like,
what was I spending however many hundred doll or some
month there?

Speaker 5 (05:01):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Why was I going there? It's been so easy to
switch over.

Speaker 4 (05:05):
To companies that actually are doing good things that pay
their workers a living wage, like Costco is one that's
kind of where we've started going for.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Bulk stuff, and there's others as well.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
But also just like forgifts for different things, like shopping
local wherever you can, like I know, at least in
our neighborhood, Like there are so many empty shop windows,
like just because these smaller companies that can't or you know,
mom and pop places can't stay in business. So whenever
you can try and patronize smaller businesses.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Absolutely absolutely. I'm reading Malala's book right now because she's
on an upcoming podcast, so I'm enjoying that her newest book.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
I can't wait to have her.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
And then I just finished watching the show who we
have one of the stars on of Task. If you
guys are watching Task on HBO, then you know how
good it is. It's so good, it's so good. Yeah,
I think we're on the season finale. I ended up
going all the way, so I won't say any spoiler
alerts because we had that little access thing and I
finally got I realized how to use it. But anyway,

(06:06):
I first met her in the Goonies and her name
is Martha Plimpton, and that's our guest today, so please
welcome her.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Oh yeay, here we are.

Speaker 5 (06:14):
Hi, oh Hi, love.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
The Plimpton and I'm so happy to see you.

Speaker 5 (06:19):
I'm happy to see you. How have you been? Well?

Speaker 1 (06:22):
I don't say this to many people, but you kind
of remind me of myself. I don't know if a
lot of people whether or not that's a compliment or not.
I don't know if a lot of people come up
to you and say, everyone tells me that I remind
them of you.

Speaker 5 (06:38):
Oh, that's nice. I find that. I think that's nice.
I think it's a compliment.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, that's a question.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Actually do people say they say it to Do they
say it to me that I remind them of No? No,
they don't, No, because I feel like you remind me
of me.

Speaker 5 (06:58):
Well, I'm very flattered. What can I say?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
I mean, there's nothing to really say.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
I just feel like ever since I saw you, when
I first laid eyes on you must have been the
Goonies and I was like, that's my personality right there.
And I've loved watching you through all of your work
over the years, and most recently in Task, which is
an HBO limited series with Mark Ruffalo where you play
a real shit kicking boss who is fucking awesome.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Another great role for you.

Speaker 5 (07:26):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
How has it been working with Mark?

Speaker 5 (07:29):
Oh? He's you know, it would be fine if he was,
you know, a nice guy.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
I know, I know, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 7 (07:37):
It's too bad that he's such an asshole, you know
what I mean. No, he's just he's the loveliest, funniest,
most dear guy. He's just a great family man, loves
his wife, loves his kids, loves you know, he's just great.

Speaker 5 (07:53):
He's just a great, great human being.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
So it's been a pleasurable experience working on that show.

Speaker 5 (07:58):
Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
You know, Catherine said something and not opening which I
thought you should repeat yourself.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
I don't take credit for.

Speaker 4 (08:05):
I told my husband, like, after the just the first
scene that you're in in that show, I'm like, she
is playing chess where everybody else is playing checkers.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
Like there are so many.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
Specific things you're doing as an actor, even just in
that first scene, and some of it's your character, but
some of it's I mean, it's just I was so
blown away by the nuances that you used.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
It's just fantastic you.

Speaker 5 (08:27):
That's very very kind. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, you really jump off the screen and you're on camera.
It's very obvious that you're now I don't want to
say taking over the scene because there are other actors involved,
but but you know, you really add to the flavor
of it every time you're on camera.

Speaker 5 (08:46):
So I'm so glad that that's lovely to hear. I
really thank you.

Speaker 7 (08:50):
It's all in the writing, really, I mean, Brad Inglesby
did all the heavy lifting for me, you know, and
you know, and when you're working with a guy like
Mark or any of these terrific actors, it's just really
it just just very easy. It just feels very very natural,
and you know, things just sort of fall into place
really nicely.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
So and how did this rule.

Speaker 5 (09:13):
Come to you?

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Did they just offer it to you? Is that how
it works for you?

Speaker 7 (09:17):
I want to say they did, although I don't know.
You don't remember, I don't remember. I know I got
the I know I got the script when I was
working on the Regime with Kate Winslet, who of course
did Brad's earlier show Me Or of Eastown.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Which all requires that Philadelphia accent, which is very very
hard to do. It's quite an annoying accent, to be honest.

Speaker 6 (09:40):
Why.

Speaker 5 (09:40):
It's not an easy one.

Speaker 7 (09:42):
It's not ana, which is why I opted to just
avoid it altogether. I don't I'm not even I'm not
even trying really well.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
You don't really have to, though, because it's like you
guys are all detective necessary.

Speaker 7 (09:54):
You don't really know, you don't have I don't. You
don't have to know where I'm from. You know, I
could be from anywhere. I could be from Ohio, I
could be from New Jersey. It could be from DC,
I could be from anywhere.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, unless you're ordering a whatder ice, you're off the hook.

Speaker 5 (10:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Kate did a great job of it on Mayor of Eastown.
There was also I had a roombate in my early
twenties in LA. She was from the most southerly part
of New Jersey, so she had that because I was
from New Jersey and I had the Jersey accent, but
not that accent. And she would say like she would
say pantyhose and moist, like oh's too long. And I

(10:29):
was like, stop talking like that. I'm like that, you're
from New Jersey. You're acting like that's what we sound like.
Don't talk like that. It's already bad enough with my
My Jersey accent comes out when I have a cocktail,
you know.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Then I'm like I started slurring a little bit.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
Okay, So are you sort of homeless right now or
you just moved?

Speaker 7 (10:46):
Are you kind of I'm selling my house in Brooklyn,
you know, deciding to do it right now when the
world is in such a state of chaos and nobody
knows if we're going to have a massive stock market crash.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Not a great time for time.

Speaker 7 (11:03):
The main thing is is that I'm leaving New York,
which is where I'm from. I'm born and raised there,
and it's very heavy to know that you're disconnecting from
your hometown and you're not going to have a base
there anymore.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
It's very it's very jarring.

Speaker 7 (11:15):
It's disconcerting, but you know, it's I sort of feel
like it's time. I feel like me and New York
are kind of on the on the outs right now.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
I can relate to this.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
I feel like I'm a little bit on the outs,
not a little bit a lot on the outs with
Los Angeles. I'm over Los Angeles and I'm kind of
stuck here for a while until I finished this stupid
fucking house that I've been building for four years. And
it's been the biggest nightmare so far my adult to life.
So I can't wait to have it done and then
get out of here, like either sell it, rent it.

(11:46):
I don't know yet, but right and I'm thinking about
going to New York because that's I've never lived in
New York.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
I'm from New Jersey. I feel like I.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Want to stay active. LA is a very sleepy, inactive place.
But I also know that you're going to London, which
is pretty much on par with New York in terms
of activity.

Speaker 5 (12:04):
Well, I mean I think it is, but it's also good.

Speaker 7 (12:07):
There's just a generally there's it's a less kind of
agitated feel there. And I don't know if it's because
it's novelty for me because I'm not from there or what,
but I just feel like there's a more of a
sense of sort of common decency there, you know, a
sense of politeness, a sense of sort of anticipating your

(12:28):
fellow man's humanity, you know, recognizing it, like the people
actually wait to board the train before, you know, so
people can get off, uh huh. And New York is
just for me, you know, I've lived there my whole life,
Like I said, I'm born and raised there, and right now,
I just if I want my city Jones taken care

(12:52):
of I think London is the place that's more sort
of my speed. Right now, I'm not I am getting
to the place where, you know, I'm all almost fifty five,
and I just want, you know, I just want some
peace and quiet for Christ's sake, you know.

Speaker 5 (13:07):
I just want.

Speaker 7 (13:07):
To just take a chill. I want to be around
nature as much as I can. I want to ride horses,
I want to you know, all that stuff, and feed
my birds and my bird feeders and the hummingbirds.

Speaker 5 (13:23):
You know what I mean. I'm into just taking a
little breather.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
So you feel like New York has become a bit
too hectic, is what I'm gathering.

Speaker 7 (13:31):
It's too hectic and it's too hostile, and you know,
I mean, it's just, you know, I want some warmth.

Speaker 5 (13:37):
I want some common decency.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Do you think that's because of the political aspect of
things or just because New York has been I.

Speaker 5 (13:44):
Think New York is kind of well.

Speaker 7 (13:46):
First of all, nobody who can afford to live there
can is like they're all wealthy or children, you know
what I mean. Saint Mark's Place, it is not the
sort of raw looking Lower East Side place it used
to be. It's now like covered in you know, outdoor
cafes with people drinking apparall spritzes and influencers, you know,

(14:10):
walking around with their beach waves hair, and you.

Speaker 5 (14:14):
Know what I mean, it just doesn't feel like New
York to me anymore. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 7 (14:18):
And on top of that, it's just mean, it's just
you know, when I walk down the street, I want
to say hello to be I want to go, hi,
how you doing.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
I like your shirt? Or I let you know, hey,
you look great. I don't want to walk down the
street and have people like shove me or I'm just
over it.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, I hear you.

Speaker 7 (14:35):
I think it's the political thing, you know, Eric Adams
is a disaster. Yeah, you know, we keep New Yorkers
keep electing these schmucks, and I just, you know, I'm
hoping for a mom Donnie.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Why does New York always elect such idiots?

Speaker 6 (14:49):
What?

Speaker 1 (14:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (14:50):
It's like smart.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
People ostensibly, like you would think that New Yorkers would
have their shit together above and beyond almost all cities
in this cou I know.

Speaker 7 (15:00):
And I can't even believe that that Cuomo is still
like I'm under I mean, I'm just like, what is
going on where is everybody's head at I don't know.
I just I'm really hopeful for Mom Donnie. I hope
that he pulls through, and I hope he wins. But
if he doesn't, I mean, it's even more reason to
just get the hell out.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Yeah, Andrew Cuomo is like the death cough of American politics.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I mean, and he's not even the worst one.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
I mean, he's back out, but there are so many
worse ones. But it's such a representation of how old
and out of touch the Democratic Party is is to
be holding onto Cuomo and putting him up against Mandanni
like a every you know, all the Jews are like,
because I'm a Jew, All the Jews are like, no, no, no,
he's an anti semit I'm like, listen, he's walked all
these things back. There is a new like there is

(15:47):
new blood coming through, Like he understands. You can't say
that he understands there's tons of Jewish people in New
York City and that that kind of line of thinking
isn't appropriate. And you have to give people room to
make like make amends, make alogies, and change the goalposts
in terms of understanding who's electing you and who is
going to be living in the city that you're going
to be in charge of. So I don't look at

(16:09):
it from like a Jewish standpoint, Like I'm not I'm
not going to vote for I mean, I don't live
in New York anyway, but if I did, I probably
would vote for mont Donnie.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, I mean, I probably I would.

Speaker 7 (16:18):
I think it's going to be my last election as
a New Yorker, and I think I'm going mom, Donnie
and so.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
So you obviously say love London.

Speaker 5 (16:27):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, You've spent a lot of time there.

Speaker 7 (16:30):
I love working there, and I get work there. You know,
I'm like here where it's a little bit harder for
you know, older women, particularly, you know, older women with
a mouth, you know. But yeah, they tend to respect
women there a little bit, more older actresses.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
It's kind of it's shocking. It's just concerning. Yeah, but
I like it. I like it.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
That's nice to know. That's nice enough. I know that
you refer to yourself as self coupled. Tell tell me
what that is. I mean, it's pretty self explanatory, but
I would love for you to open about it.

Speaker 7 (17:03):
I am, I am happy, I am and I'm in
a committed relationship with myself. Love it, and I'm really
really enjoying it. I'm really happy. I'm not interested in relationships.
I'm not interested in dating. I like doing what I
want to do when I want to do it, going
where I want to go when I want to go.

Speaker 5 (17:25):
I don't want anyone in my.

Speaker 7 (17:27):
House farting, taking up space, taking up oxygen.

Speaker 5 (17:32):
You know what I mean. I like a dinner party,
but then go home. I know what I mean.

Speaker 7 (17:37):
I love my I love my single life. I love
having my space, my solitude. It's really just, you know,
I'm very happy. It's so interesting women our age. I'm fifty,
you're fifty five.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
It's just women our age are just like anyone who
gets divorced or isn't in a relationship at this age
is almost so turned off by the idea. It's just
not even it's not even something I spend a moment
of my day thinking about. My friend said to me
the other day, you got to you know what I
was telling my friend. She goes, I don't want to
get old and dry, and I'm like dry, what do

(18:11):
you mean, are you Regina?

Speaker 2 (18:13):
And she's like, yeah, I go you masturbate.

Speaker 5 (18:14):
All the time.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
That's all you have to do to keep the Jesus
juices flowing. Like that's scientific. And she's like, that's ridiculous.
It's actually not ridiculous. If you lose your regina, you
don't have to use it with another person. You can
use it with yourself and it will remain And and
she was like I.

Speaker 7 (18:28):
Just there, Yeah, you know, give give give it chores,
use it as a cubicle.

Speaker 5 (18:33):
Absolutely, yeah, give it things to do around the house.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
And she was like, yeah, I went through this face
thinking like, oh, I have to keep having sex in
order to keep my vagina operable. And I was like, no, no,
that's not actually true. And and then she's like and
then the last couple of months, I've come to this
place where I'm just like I don't think about men
at all. And I'm like, I know, it's like a
coming of age. There's a time in your life where,
like Catherine, you're married, so that's a different situation, happily married.

(18:59):
But there is once a woman either like gets divorced,
Like we don't feel the need at a certain age
to shack up again, because you know, realize how beautiful
being independent and untethered.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
Is Yes, it is absolutely beautiful.

Speaker 7 (19:16):
And also, you know, let's face it, I mean I
haven't had the best track record anyway, usually most of
the time. So I'm fine with just giving myself at
a little hiatus, a little break.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah, you did at River Phoenix
when you were really young, didn't you.

Speaker 5 (19:32):
Yeah, but that was forty years ago.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well yeah, but you were dealing with that stands out
of my brain because you were dealing with such adult
issues at such a young age, dealing with his addiction,
dealing with fame, dealing with all of the things that
you had to deal with as a little girl. Basically,
So how does a teenage girl, because you were essentially

(19:55):
a teenager right when you started dating, I think, yeah,
how did you handle that those big issues as a
small like a younger person.

Speaker 5 (20:05):
I don't know. I don't think you really think about it.
When you're in the middle of it. You don't think
about it.

Speaker 7 (20:10):
You just love the person that you're with, and you know,
I still love him, I miss him every day.

Speaker 5 (20:15):
You're not really thinking about all that.

Speaker 7 (20:17):
You're just kind of going with you know what you know,
which is you you know, love, kindness, you know, attachment,
you know, a little bit of fear, a little bit
of nervousness, all the normal things that go along with
having a first love.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
You know what I mean. Family. You know, I love
his family, I love you know, I loved all of that.
I love and I loved him greatly.

Speaker 7 (20:39):
But I don't think I was like, you know, sure,
there were difficulties and there were hard things about it.
I just think of it as a wonderful experience, beautiful
time in my life.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Kind a connection, right, Yeah, I know you're doing the
movie East of Eden. You're adapting the movie East of Eden,
which is really exciting. That was one of the rather
limited series. Yeah, really so excited. And who else is
in that?

Speaker 7 (21:02):
That's Florence Pugh, great and Mike faced and Kieran Hines
and Tracy Letts and Zoe Cazanne adapted it and created
and you know, she's sort of created this limited series
and it's so in such an incredible book. I'm ashamed
to say I didn't read it until I was I

(21:25):
knew I was going to do the series, and when
I finally read it, I was just it's got to be.
I think it's my favorite American novel. It's just so
so beautiful. And Zoe, who of course is the granddaughter
of Elia Kazanne, who is the director of the first
film with James Dean. She's just done an incredible job
adapting this thing and focusing really on the whole entire

(21:50):
life of Kathy. You know, this central female character who's
so oh man, she is a dark, dark soul, that
one really dark.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah. East of Eiden is one of the first books
that my father forced me to read when I was
eight years old.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
It was Anna Corena Anna Karenina eight.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah, because he had to keep me busy, because he
knew I was going to be trouble, or he thought
I was going.

Speaker 5 (22:12):
To be trouble. He wasn't wrong.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
I read Anna Corenna.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I read East of Eden by John Steinbeck, which was
at eight years old all I remember, I mean, I
don't I've reread it since then. But the descriptiveness of
John steinbad. Like the descriptive writing but also very beautiful,
but also quite annoying when you're eight years old, you
know what I.

Speaker 5 (22:31):
Mean to.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
I mean, now I can appreciate the beauty in descriptive writing,
but at that time I was like, if I hear
one more thing about the leaves on the trees and
the color. Like I got it right. There are fucking
trees and there are fucking leaves everywhere you look. But
what an amazing and iconic American author. You know, just
completely And I don't know why.

Speaker 7 (22:50):
I mean, you know, I sort of I was afraid
because my grandfather was in the movie The Grapes of Wrath.
John Chardine's my grandfather and he plays preacher in Grapes
of Wrath. And I don't know, I just I for
some reason, I was afraid to read it because I
thought maybe he'd be a little bit like Hemingway, who
I can't stand. I mean, just as a writer. I

(23:12):
just don't like him. And also he seems like he
was kind of a horrible person. But I was so wrong.
I was so wrong. It's one of the most beautiful
and you really feel like you can smell that California air,
that mountain desert dry you know, scrub oak, you know,
and the soil and the dirt.

Speaker 5 (23:32):
You really feel like you can just you're just in it.
And I love that.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, it's very Americana like for there's certain authors that
just represent like American and.

Speaker 5 (23:41):
It's like biblical. It's like as a it's a biblical
story basically what he's.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Situation.

Speaker 7 (23:48):
Yes, it's a canaan able thing, but it's also a
good and evil thing and the inherent.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
Whether or not you're born evil or if it's beat
into you.

Speaker 7 (23:58):
And it's just this wonderful all these themes of redemption
and salvation and forgiveness.

Speaker 5 (24:05):
I mean, it's just a gorgeous book.

Speaker 7 (24:07):
And I think that the series is really it's going
to be really good. I have a feeling where are
we exciting about it? We shot it already in New Zealand,
which is shockingly very similar to early California, early you know,
eighteen hundreds California, because it wasn't settled until the eighteen hundred,

(24:30):
so the architecture.

Speaker 5 (24:31):
All really looks like the Old West.

Speaker 7 (24:33):
It's really kind of wild in the northern island of
New Zealand Auckland area, So that's where we shot it.

Speaker 5 (24:40):
It was incredible.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, New Zealand is so nice to be in New Zealand. Yeah,
what do you think about that? Do you think people
are born evil?

Speaker 7 (24:46):
You know, that's a good question, and I don't know
if we ever know the answer. There's certainly people who
seem they like they were born evil.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, like Steven Miller, it seems like he was born evil.

Speaker 5 (24:57):
It seems like, yeah, it seems like he might have
been born that way.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
But it also makes sense that you could be so traumatized,
you know, at something that happened so early on in
your life, and be so kind of ignored neglected that
you could become horrible.

Speaker 5 (25:12):
Parents were horrible, horrible, awful people too. I mean, you know,
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (25:17):
But then again, you have people who are perfectly nice
and then they you know, they have a Jeffrey Dahmer,
So I don't know who knows, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
It's a good question.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Are you good at forgiving people who have wronged you?

Speaker 7 (25:30):
I'm good at for giving people up to a point,
and then when the when a line gets crossed, then
I'm done. So I'll give a person many many chances.
But then when that line gets cross when there's like
a betrayal or like a you know, if someone really
really doesn't have my back in a moment when it's necessary,

(25:53):
or if someone really really seems to be just serving
themselves at my expense, then I and I say Cyanara.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, I have the same thing. I take on a
lot and then I get and then it.

Speaker 7 (26:07):
Hits critical mass and I you know, way, Yeah, I'm
done now out of my face.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
And when I'm done, I'm really really done.

Speaker 5 (26:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
I don't like to go.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
I don't like recidivism, especially in relationships sexually and friendships.
Like once it's over, it's a wrap, that's it. Yeah,
so talk to us about the relationship with abortion and
trans writes. I think you made a comment and I
thought that was interesting to illuminate for this conversation.

Speaker 5 (26:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (26:34):
Yeah, I mean I think that that they fall under
the umbrella of bodily autonomy and doing what you feel
and know is right for you and your body, and
not letting the state control what you do with your
own body and what you want to be in your
own body and what you are in your own body.

(26:57):
I think that boat they're both incredibly they're completely intertwined,
and you know, you often don't see one restriction of one.

Speaker 5 (27:08):
Group without the other.

Speaker 7 (27:10):
You know, they always come in pairs or you know,
whenever you want, whatever formulation you want to use, and
they're both based in a core hatred of women and
women's difference and women's complexity and women's I don't know
the breadth of women's experience. Americans, a large a number

(27:35):
of them just really really hate us. They really hate women,
and they don't care if we die or if we suffer.
And when I think they don't especially like about trans people.
And of course I'm speaking to this as someone who
is not trance, so I don't have the direct experience,
but my guess is that what they hate so much

(27:57):
about a trans person is the person making their own choice,
living their own destiny, truthfully, freely, honestly, openly. They just
cannot stand that's something that they are unable to do
someone else is able to do. They just don't like
anybody being able to have full self.

Speaker 5 (28:20):
Determination and autonomy because they believe in control and silence.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
That's exactly what's happening. And it's not just in an
American issue. It's a global issue. Yes, absolutely, Yeah. People
don't want women to succeed in the way that women
are succeeding, or to be as independent as women have become.
You co founded a women's healthcare called A is for.

Speaker 7 (28:41):
Yeah, it's basically I'm not a member of the organization anymore,
although I wish them well, it just was time for
me to move on. But yeah, I co founded this
about thirteen or fourteen years ago, and it was basically
an effort to take the stigma away from the whole
subject because abortion is healthcare. And we noticed, you know,

(29:03):
it was happening during this whole Sandra Fluck thing in
the ACA Obamacare, and Sandra Flick was suing Notre Dame
for not covering her contraceptives in when she was in
university there, and you know, she was being called all
sorts of horrible names, and women were being told to
keep their legs closed, or put an aspen between your

(29:24):
knees or what all these ridiculous things people were saying,
and you know, it just struck us that that the
core of what was happening at that time. Of course
has changed a bit, it's mutated, it's you know, grown
like hideous limbs, and you know, spread in various ways.
But at that time, we felt that the core issue

(29:44):
was stigma and we wanted to fight back. And so
you know, that's kind of what the basis of AS
four was to begin with. And now they do great
work in supporting on the ground Abortion Fund, independent clinics,
legal aid organizations and things like this.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
What is your advice to women listening like about fighting back.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
In the current moment we're living in, you know, in America.

Speaker 7 (30:13):
First of all, it's very important to remember that abortion
is still available in this country. That MiFi pristone and
Mesa prost doll here by the way, here two rings
I have. There's a Myfi pristone and that's the Mesa
prostall ring.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
They do take every morning when you wake up.

Speaker 7 (30:32):
Yeah, they're very safe and they're very available, and obviously
you should check out what the laws are in your state.
And there are several doctors now being chased down who
are working in shield law states who are being attacked,
you know, like the doctor from New York who's the

(30:54):
Louisiana is going after him. I think there's a doctor
in the Bay Area who's Louisiana is going after her
or him attempting to sue them for wrongful death. I mean,
it's just insane what these people are willing to do.
But it's important for women to know that and for
anyone with a uterus to know that abortion is available

(31:16):
right and you can avail yourself of the tools to self.

Speaker 5 (31:22):
Manage your own abortion.

Speaker 7 (31:24):
And anyone who tells you that you can't, or that
you shouldn't, or that it's reversible is lying to you.

Speaker 5 (31:32):
So that's the most important thing to know, I.

Speaker 7 (31:34):
Think, and to remember the abortion is a community responsibility,
as my friend Amilia Bono at Shout Your Abortion says,
you know, abortion is it's everyone's job to make sure
that every single person in their community is able to
make their own decisions about their own life. It's everyone's
job to stand up for them and to support them

(31:57):
and to protect them. Yeah, So I think those are
just two things that I would say.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, and especially to states that like Texas where abortion
has becomeing legal and I mean I know a woman
who had to fly to San Francisco to get her abortion.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
You know that is costly.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
So like, if you are listening to this podcast and
you live in one of those places where abortion has
been criminalized, please make sure that you are helping your
friends and helping women and thinking about their healthcare as
an issue of health like this is every woman has
the right to decide what to do with her body,
not the state, not the government. So if there's someone
in your area that needs help, that needs help financing,

(32:33):
or you know, getting out of that state. Please make
sure that you are thinking of others and not just
of your own community. You know, try and find organizations
that help support that and help finance people's abortions in
other states.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
Yeah, I'll put a few of those organizations. If you're
somebody who finds yourself in need, some organizations you can
reach out to in the description here.

Speaker 5 (32:52):
So mm hmm, fantastic.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Right, we're going to take a break.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
We're going to be right back with Martha Plimpton and
we're going to take some callers.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Okay, and we're back with Martha plumpt In.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Martha back.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
We're giving real life.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Advice to callers on this podcast. Okay, are you ready?

Speaker 5 (33:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (33:10):
I bet you.

Speaker 5 (33:11):
I hope. Oh man. I mean, with the state of
my life, I'm not sure I'm qualified, but qualified all
let's go for.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
What I need is somebody who's not involved in your
situation to give you objective advice. Yes, okay, yes, that's
the thesis that age mark.

Speaker 5 (33:24):
Yeah, do it all right?

Speaker 4 (33:25):
Well, this first one is just an email, but it's
continuing on with our theme of abortion. So Megan says
Dear Chelsea. In twenty nineteen, right before the pandemic, I
had an abortion. It went as well as an abortion
could go, and I was ultimately happy with my decision. However,
since then, I have developed a fear around having sex.
I've been happily married for five years, and I still

(33:47):
think my husband is sexy as hell. But every time
we have sex or even think about having sex, the
only thing I can think is what if I get
pregnant again?

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Major buzzkill.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
With everything happening in our country right now around reproductive rights,
I'm terrified that I could find myself in a position
where I'm forced to go through with an unwanted or
non viable pregnancy. Thankfully, I live in a blue state
where things seem to be chill on the abortion front
for now. But if the last few years have taught
me anything it's that anything can happen. All this political upheaval,
the pandemic, plus day to day stressors have taken a

(34:16):
serious toll on my libido.

Speaker 5 (34:17):
Two.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
I'd love to get back into enjoying sex. It's such
a great way to relax and get out of my
head and into my body. Plus connect with my husband,
but I'm not sure what steps I need to take
to get there.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Any advice, Megan.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
It's called birth control, Megan, Hello, get them. What kind
of questions are these? Birth control? I ud you can
take a pill. You can.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
You can get the melliphystaprone, the mephisto prone memphis municiprone.
You can get that meta musol. Get the melatonin melatonin
also great. No, you can get birth control. And you're
in a blue state. First of all, you're safe. You
should definitely start enjoying your sexual life. You know, be
happy that you have someone you're attracted to. That is

(34:58):
a victory in and of itself.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
Yeah, doing some meditation just to like actually like get
into your body totally outside of the sex stuff could
help you learn to sink into your body when you.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Guys are having sex.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
I think my other big piece of advice is like,
if that's not working, like find a somatic therapist.

Speaker 7 (35:16):
Like. I also think that, you know, women put so
much pressure on themselves. You know, maybe it's your husband's fault, right,
Maybe he's not communicating. Maybe it you know, I mean,
it might not be you, it might be him. It
might be you know, she says he's sexy and everything,
but that ain't enough. You know, you got to be
a good communicator. You've got to be empathic, and you've

(35:38):
got to you know, you didn't say really much about
what it was like when you went through your abortion,
if you went through it with your husband, if he
was supportive, if he was distant, or if you felt lonely.
So that's that's also, you know, don't try not to
blame yourself for all this. Blame it on somebody else.
Blame it on a man. They never get any blame
the Blame it on him.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
So there's some sound advice. But also if your issue
is I love it. If your issue is that you're
worried about getting pregnant, that is so simple to fix,
Like you, so go and get the proper go to
your obgi N and figure out what the best birth
control for you is period end of story.

Speaker 5 (36:18):
And then or have your husband wear a condom or has.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Your husband yeah, getting your personality or where Yeah, wearing
a condom for men who are married. I love that idea. Yeah,
And men are like what excuse me?

Speaker 5 (36:29):
Ye?

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Also, you know what you can do? I mean, if
you're so worried about getting pregnant. I got an oblationion
and those are available. They don't advertise those, but that's
where they go in and they scorch your uterine lining
so that you don't get a period anymore. And I
don't get a period anymore, and you can't get pregnant
after that. I mean, you're ninety nine percent, you know,
safe from getting pregnant. So that's another. Or you could, yeah,
just get your tubes tied too. You can do that too.

(36:52):
My friend this weekend, I was away in Tafino this
weekend and she said, I like getting my period. It
makes me feel womanly. And we just all looked at her, like,
what what fuck are you talking about? What likes getting
their period?

Speaker 4 (37:07):
Oh my gosh, she must not have very many cramps.
But well, our next question comes from Teagan. It's a
little bit of a long one, but it's a really
well written email. So she says, Dear Chelsea, first, thank
you for being the kind of persons strangers like me
feel safe spilling their guts to a Few years ago,
my father in law passed away suddenly, and my mother
in law, after talking it through with her kids, sold

(37:27):
her house. My husband and I live on a large
property and generously offered her the option to build a
small cottage in her backyard. The idea was she'd spend less,
be closer to her grandkids, and have her own private space.
Until the cottage was built, she'd temporarily live upstairs in
our house with her terrible, spiteful cat. Sorry not sorry, Oh,
here we go. She has a bedroom, bathroom, living room,

(37:48):
and kitchenette. The plan six months while our own two toddlers,
then ages two and three, continued sleeping in her room
to make space for her. We share our kitchen, a life,
a ceiling, all temporary, right. Well, We started the cottage
without permits, naively thinking it would be simple, and three
months in the town shut it down. Since then, the
permitting process has been a soul sucking, hope killing, multi

(38:10):
year nightmare.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
Do you know anything about that, Chelsea.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Here we are in twenty twenty five and her cottage
is just now almost done. That means she's still upstairs
and my kids, now five and seven, still share a
bedroom with me and my husband.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
Oh my god, let me say this. She's not a
monster in law.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
She's kind, She's helped us financially, she loves us, But
she's always been a lot. Even when I was a
teenager dating her son, she was already the kind of
person I felt mildly allergic to, chatting to a level
that feels like psychological warfare, socially unaware, messy, kind of lazy,
and completely incapable of reading a room. She talks through
every silence, she lingers in doorways when I'm just trying

(38:48):
to mother my children in peace. Being around her twenty
four to seven has turned all those little quirks into
rage triggers.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
For me.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
I twitch at the sound of her footsteps.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
I get angry when she breathes too loud, and I
know that makes me sound up kind, but.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
It is the truth.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
So after three years of this, I've grown deeply resentful.
Early motherhood was supposed to be sacred for me, and
instead I've been in this constant state of stress. Meanwhile,
my husband and I have tiptoed around our intimacy, spending
three years as a family of four crammed into one bedroom.
I know she didn't ask for this tragedy either. She
lost her husband, she's retired, she's lonely. She probably means well,
But just because I know all that doesn't mean I

(39:23):
know how to stop feeling the way I do.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
My husband's on the same page. I'm not proud of
the tone.

Speaker 4 (39:28):
I take with her, or how I avoid her like
a sulky teenager, or how I let her mere presence
ruin my day. I don't want credit, I don't want pity.
I want tools to stop mentally living in this resentment swamp.
I want to be kind, especially because she's not going anywhere.
She'll be fifty feet from my back door for the
rest of our lives. How do I get there?

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Sincerely, teaken Hi, this is our special guest, Martha Plimpton
is here today.

Speaker 5 (39:51):
Hi. Hi, Wow, what a conundrum.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yes, you've survived.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
First of all, you've survived this. I can't.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
I mean, I cannot believe you've been sharing a bedroom
with your children. I can relate seven, I can relate
to first. I mean, I can relate to a lot
of it. But I can relate to the real estate
fiasco of it all. It is is soul crushing to
constantly be told and to take an advantage of over
and over again, and be told something is going to come,
be ready and not be ready. It's just like the

(40:23):
emotional toll that that takes. I totally get it. But
here's the great news. She's moving into the cottage, so
fifty feet away is going to be exactly the amount
of space you need. That might not sound like a lot,
but she's going to be out of your you know,
like inside your house. And even though she's going to
be loitering around and lingering, it's going to change the
dynamic like exponentially just by having your own room back

(40:47):
and giving your kids their own room, you know. And
so first of all, I would if I were in
your situation, I would have started taking well betrin or
something like.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
I would take a moodlifter.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Honestly, I would go to my doctor and be like, listen,
something is really irritating me and I need something to
take the edge off. I do that in times in
my life when I really need it, when I'm very,
very irritable, and I don't do it long term, but
I do ask my doctor, like, what's something that will
take the edge off. Another way to go is to
actually just write down the kind of relationship that you

(41:18):
want to have with her. Write down that now you
can even do this together with her, You can even
bring her into this and go, hay usen, we just
went through something that most families don't survive.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
We survived it.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Let's figure out how we can move forward with giving us.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Each other the right amount of space.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
She couldn't have loved living inside your house as much either,
Like she didn't. She probably was irritated by that whole situation.

Speaker 6 (41:43):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's definitely been hard on all of us,
and we're very much aligned in that.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
You know, we decided to do this together.

Speaker 6 (41:50):
We're going to get it, get through it all together,
and every set of a step of the way. You know,
we've I've made sure to say to her, you know,
nobody asked for this.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
We didn't know what we didn't know.

Speaker 6 (42:00):
So I think I can definitely agree to that.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Good for you, Good for you for like for even
you know, doing this and going through it. But now
it's a great opportunity for you guys to even understand
each other better by sitting down together. Whether you want
to do this and include your husband, I mean men
are pretty useless, so you might just mean, well, just
do it without him. You and her sit down together
and go, Okay, what are some rules we can follow
for each other? To give each other some space now

(42:25):
that we have it, like what's going to make you comfortable,
what's going to make me comfortable? So that you're doing
it together and kind of like developing a road map
in concert with each other out of respect for women,
you know what I mean, Like like you come at
it like I want to respect you and I want
you to respect me, and I don't want any weird feelings.
So let's talk about these last four years. You don't

(42:46):
have to like get into all of it, but like,
what do we want to be different moving forward so
that we all have our own space. I know you
must want your own space. I want my own space.
I can't wait to have my bedroom back. And then
kind of talk through it with her. Do you think
she would be open to something like that.

Speaker 5 (43:01):
She would. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (43:03):
A lot of it is resentment, right at least on
my end, So I wouldn't want to go into it
having to bring up things that I didn't like to
then kind of prove a point of what I do want.
So I guess it would just be navigating that, if
that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, it's not useful to go you did this and
this annoyed me. That's not the right tone, but just
you know, moving forward, Like we have a huge opportunity.
Let's make this since the last few years have been
kind of stressful and we've all been on top of
each other, let's use this as an opportunity to figure
out the best ways to help each other.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
Yeah, and what the dynamic is going to be moving
It's like a perfect sort offlection point where like things
are already changing and you can set new boundaries, even
if you don't call them.

Speaker 5 (43:42):
That, right.

Speaker 6 (43:43):
I was just going to say, this reminds me of
like like a pleasant boundary.

Speaker 5 (43:46):
To ehet it.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yeah, and that way she can invoke her desires and wishes,
you know what I mean, And she can also say, oh,
you know, from six to nine, I would like for
the kids not to come over, Like, you know, use
that as a starting point. I know, you don't want
the kids probably running over your house all day long.
Is there a time of day that you'd prefer to
be left alone? And then that opens the door for
the times of days you want to be left alone,

(44:09):
And like how you're going to communicate coming back and forth,
or if it's just gonna be casual, or if there
are certain nights that you want some privacy. You know,
all of these things can come up very organically. I
think you've handled yourself with such a plum thus far, like,
way to fucking go, way to be a team player,
and yeah, come over here.

Speaker 7 (44:27):
You're applauding your your fortitude, your strength and your ford.
It can tell it's not it's not been easy, but
I admire your strength.

Speaker 5 (44:35):
You're doing great. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
I appreciate that.

Speaker 6 (44:39):
I definitely don't like to feel like on this like
not so kind person, because most people I have great
relationships with. It's just a it was a difficult situation
and it just kept going and going, and we would
see the light at the end of the tunnel and
then it was it was pushed back some more.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
So the night is very very close.

Speaker 6 (45:01):
I do have to say, probably you know, within the
next couple weeks.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Right, perfect and perfect?

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Yeah, thank goodness for that, right Yeah, And celebrate yourself
for putting up with that and dealing with it and
being so accommodating like that.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
Is a lot.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
That's a lot to take on. Yeah, and you're going
to have privacy now with your husband. You can have
sex with your husband if you're still attracted to him
after all of this.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
That would be a victory, you.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Know, And it's going to be like a nice new
beginning for the whole family because the kids are going
to benefit from this too, and they're also going to
benefit from having their grandmother so close.

Speaker 6 (45:35):
I remind myself of that a lot, and she, you know,
has all great intentions as far as the kids, and
I know it's going to be really really good for them.
And there they love it, and they've for little kids,
they really understand the situation and they know, Okay.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
We're going to get our bedrooms soon. We're going to
go pick out the paint colors.

Speaker 6 (45:52):
Like they're on board with it too, So we're definitely
all on the same page. And I think what you
said would be a great idea to start almost in fresh.
What we should have done when she originally moved in
been like, okay, let's figure out how we can make
this work.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Seamlessly, and but we didn't know. We just were winging it, like.

Speaker 6 (46:12):
Okay, it'll be a couple of months. Oh, okay, a couple
more months, yeah, and then here we are and.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
Yeah, okay, bonus bonus that you can set up when
you sit down and have this conversation is figuring out
babysitting nights, like, hey, we love if like Tuesdays and
Saturdays you take the kids for three hours each night
and then you can have sex with your husband also
or go out or do it. But that way you
have days where you know, you get some private time.
So this is even a bonus. That way the kids
are out of the house too. Yep, exactly. I think

(46:39):
that's great idea too.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
We'll take advantage and don't beat yourself up for like
having thoughts that you're a bad person.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
That's just women, that's just female guilt.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
So that is us just wrestling with all of our
responsibilities and feeling bad about having negative feelings. It's totally
normal to be annoyed that somebody's in your house for
that long. It doesn't matter, and especially your mother in
law like that is yeah, completely normal.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
You're not a bad.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, all right, I appreciate you saying that.

Speaker 3 (47:03):
Thank you keep us updated. All right, Tea again, I
will thank you.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Thank you ladies so much, thanks for your time for
hearing me out.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Yeah, thanks to again.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
All right, Well, our next caller is dev. Dev says
dear Chelsea. I'm twenty five and from the Midwest. I'm
currently experiencing the worst betrayal of my life. I've been
cheated on in almost every one of my relationships, and
when I got to this most recent one, I felt
I finally healed and was ready to trust. We had
so many what I thought were honest conversations about our

(47:32):
past and how we could be good partners for each other.
I found out after posting the first time, my first
post with him, after about five months of dating, that
he had been having a full blown affair under my
nose and now I can see.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
Basically rubbing it into my face.

Speaker 4 (47:46):
The girl DMed me, and he denied it until I
was reading him the damning messages he sent to her.
In hindsight, I had a few moments of questioning. I
always chose to trust him to avoid the toxic patterns
of relationships I've been in the past. He was never
going to tell me or end it, and his reaction
to be finding out truly makes me believe he's not
even sorry. Logically, I know all I can do is
move forward. That the best revenge is looking, feeling and

(48:08):
doing my best. I have hobbies, friends, and I'm outgoing
I'm a catch and this is the last thing I deserved.
For the purpose of brevity, that's all I could just
stand to hear any wisdom you can offer, any laughs
or lighthearted spins on the situation and the support from
this community you've created.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Love dev Hi dev Hy Chelsea Hi, this is our
special guest Martha Plimpton here today.

Speaker 5 (48:30):
How you doing so this pattern.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Of behavior you speak of, you pick men that are cheating.
Is that the same pattern that you're referring to.

Speaker 8 (48:39):
I think the pattern is that I'm attracted to narcissus
because I confuse their confidence as an attractive trait, and
I need to get better at discerning when it crosses
a line.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Yeah, yeah, you do, because there's a lot of narcissists
out there, and you need to protect your mental health
and you need to protect yourself because if you have
a lot to offer, you want to be able to
give that to somebody who deserves it.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Have you read the book Attached?

Speaker 8 (49:06):
I actually am in the process of reading it on
my next stand.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Great, Well, that's going to help you a lot, because
that's going to make you understand which kind of version
you are anxious attached, you know, and you're going to
understand why you keep going after the same kind of person.
It's called a breakup because It's Broken is a decent
book about breaking up. It sounds pretty kind of silly,
but it actually has some good stuff in there about
not repeating patterns.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
But are you in therapy right now?

Speaker 5 (49:33):
I am. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Well, then you really want to really make sure that
you are cementing the signs of narcissism. Write them fucking
down and put them on your refrigerator and on your
mirror so that when you are dating somebody, the first
red flag is the last red flag. You don't need
to go through this again, because life is about patterns
and behavior, and the minute you break a cycle, you're
able to elevate and get onto the next version of you.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
And that's what you want to do.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
You don't want to keep running around with the same
lose It's an unfortunate byproduct of our society that there
are so many narcissists. But you can combat that, you
know what I mean, with your own education and your
own self reliance, and also maybe take a break from
dating anybody for a while until you have a real
handle on how to identify somebody who is out for
themselves versus somebody who's actually really caring and interested in

(50:21):
a relationship. And also, don't confuse confidence, you know, narcissism
for confidence. Does that sound right, Martha? Do you want
to add anything to this listen?

Speaker 5 (50:31):
I could not agree more.

Speaker 7 (50:32):
I've gone through similar situations as to what you're going through,
and for a long time it was the bane of
my existence. I went with one narcissist after another a
lot of time. It's about, you know, we're attracted to
something that sort of reflects back our initial wound or
you know, a childhood wound, and maybe something in your

(50:55):
family or something in a parent that you see as
sort of hard to get in a way that confidence
can seem like sort of and you want to attain
it so you can, I don't know, communicate with that
part of you, that little kid in you. And I
know I'm sounding kind of ridiculous right now, but that's
kind of what I've done. I've sort of looked back

(51:16):
in therapy with my with my shrink and my reading
and gone, Okay, what am I trying to correct from
my youth or my little girlhood that is feeling so
left behind? Are so in need of approval and love
from somebody who's really just about kind of themselves. You know,
I think everything Chelsea said is exactly right, and you're

(51:38):
gonna be fine, and she's right. You know, maybe taking
a little break is okay. I certainly am, and I'm
loving it. You know, you don't have to wait till
you're fifty to take a break from dating and getting
to know yourself better. But you know, listen, I'm terrible
for this because I've been through the same thing so
many times.

Speaker 5 (51:57):
It's ridiculous.

Speaker 7 (51:59):
So know, all I can say is your way ahead
of where I was at your age.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
And you also have to remember that you set the
tone for like who's in your life.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
You set the standard.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Like a personal story for me, recently, somebody tried to
set me up. This was a few months ago. Somebody
tried to set me up. This person was rich, famous, gorgeous,
all of the like, you know, very attractive qualities. And
then I sat I had a couple of conversations with
him before you know, I decided to go out with him.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
I was like, let me just talk to.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
This guy, because I don't really want to waste my time.
I'm in a place in my life. That's not dissimilar
from where Martha is. Where I enjoy my own company.
I like to be alone. I like my time alone.
I'm happy alone. I mean, I'm not very self sufficient,
so that's where I have a conflict because I need
people to help me all the time.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
But so this guy was all of these things.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
I talked to this guy three times and I was like,
definitely not. This guy talked about himself in like, he
didn't ask me any questions about myself. He talked about
himself NonStop. Everything was about him and his schedule and
what his work and when he was shooting this and
when he would be available to meet based on his openings.
And I was like, oh, this is a huge red flag,

(53:05):
Like this is not a relationship. This is not somebody
I want to be in a relationship with. And the
biggest narcissist that I ever dated. And I've dated a couple,
but I don't have a repeated pattern of dating narcissists,
but one I did, like, it's very obvious when someone
is out for themselves and their own best interests supersede yours,
Like that is a very obvious thing to identify. So

(53:26):
now that you've had exposure to that, you should have
no problem identifying it.

Speaker 8 (53:31):
Yeah, and I already had the epiphany that I was
the common denominator in this pattern, and so the calls
coming from inside the house and.

Speaker 5 (53:42):
Working on Matt.

Speaker 7 (53:44):
But also just remember a common theme today is don't
get down on yourself. You know, these guys they're the problem.
You know, you might you know, you're looking for something
that is exciting and interesting and makes you feel loved
and appreciated, and they're the ones who are who are disappointing,

(54:06):
not you. So it's okay to not be down on
yourself and to go you know what. Sure, there are obviously,
or maybe there are things about you know, your childhood
or where you come from that make you seek out,
you know, a thing that you want to repair from
your past. But that's not a fault, that's not a flaw.

(54:26):
That's a normal human thing that all human beings do.
It's a question of whether or not the person that
you seek out is able to see that and respect.

Speaker 5 (54:36):
It and meet you where you are. That's what it's about.

Speaker 7 (54:39):
Yeah, don't bring yourself down, don't talk yourself down, you know,
talk them down.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
They're the assholes and talk yourself up for you know,
knowing that there's a problem you change. If you change
your behavior, you're going to change the outcome, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
That's as simple as it gets.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
So as long as you start making better decisions and
identifying patterns of behavior, which you're doing by calling in,
by admitting all this, you're going to change, and you're
going to and the men you're going to date are
going to change as well.

Speaker 8 (55:04):
I do feel like I've already had a change from
feeling like so wounded in my ego to realizing that
I am not my ego and the fact that someone
else wasn't able to value me and everything I have
to offer doesn't diminish my value great and like I
have not to toot my own horn, but such a
bright light that I can share and touch in so

(55:27):
many people's lives that it's their loss fully completely hard.
Stop he is such a loser.

Speaker 5 (55:38):
I love it. I love your.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
Listeners. Focus on that, Yeah, focus more on that.

Speaker 4 (55:45):
And you know what, you're in your twenties and dating it,
dating secks in your twenties. You know, maybe that's part
of the common denominator that you know, dating always sucks,
always suck.

Speaker 8 (55:54):
Thank you so much, and it's been really good to
talk to you. Nice to meet you, Martha Chelsea. I
listened to your podcasts for a long time and I
applied some of the advice. I heard your voice in
my head and I was writing in in the middle
of my crashout. Time has already kind of done its thing.
But talking to you here today, I feel rejuvenated and.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Then I'm going love it direction. I love it you
are going in the right direction.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Thanks for calling in dev Yeah, thank you, Bye bye bye.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
This is where twenty five year olds are at with
their mental health and their personal growth. Like they're talking
about like moving toward the light and their attachment styles.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
You know, nothink their ego. I think it's great.

Speaker 6 (56:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
I didn't find out about my ego until I was
about thirty five years old. So it seems people seem
to be way ahead of the game. Boys too, young
boys too. For the most part, they seem to be
with it a little bit more than guys our age.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
I feel like there's an expiration day.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Like everybody who's above fifty, as a white male, needs
to be updated, like an iPhone updated.

Speaker 5 (56:58):
They need a soft world.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Okay, we're going to be right back with Martha Plimpton
to wrap up with today's episode with one last question.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Do we have one last week?

Speaker 1 (57:06):
We have one last question. Yeah, we'll be right back
and we're back with Martha Plimpton. Okay, we do love
our commercial breaks.

Speaker 5 (57:16):
We do.

Speaker 4 (57:17):
This is another like parent behaving badly, but it's sort
of a different situation. So Ali says, Dear Chelsea, I'm
a thirty year old woman with a husband and daughter,
and my dad is driving me fucking nuts. My parents
had me when they were young and were never married
and separated when I was too little to even remember
them being together. But my dad was always very involved
in my life. My parents co parented fantastically and had

(57:39):
a close friendship. He contributed greatly to paying for my college,
never missed a child support payment, and was the furthest
thing from a deadbeat dad. We got along great during
my childhood. He was like the Disneyland dad type of parent.
And then in twenty to nineteen, I started therapy and
I have started consuming a lot of what I call.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Therapy podcasts like yours.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
Being in therapy, becoming a mom and learning about attachment styles,
mindfulness and boundary setting has been a huge transformation for me.
Without sounding too patronizing, I'm now hyper aware of everyone's
emotional maturity around me, and this has led to my
dad driving me fucking nuts. I think he has undiagnosed
ADHD anxious attachment, and he's very paranoid of other people
since my daughter was born. He's very needy of my attention,

(58:19):
sometimes calling me multiple times today. He's disrespectful of boundaries
and will frequently say things like I need to come
over this week, or I'm running errands, but I'm going
to call you soon, so make sure you pick up,
or you better stop breastfeeding soon.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
He calls me all.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
The time, but we'll only talk about himself and has
a lot of difficulty paying attention to what I'm saying,
or he just wants to sit on the phone and
has nothing to really say. He's an ass to his girlfriend.
He constantly interrupts her and tells her what to do.
He owns his own Company's very bossing to everyone around him.
I've noticed a lot of patterns of misogyny where he
pretty aggressively complains about the women in his life and
Judge's mothers. Every time I try to set a boundary,

(58:54):
he pushes back. If he's on a paranoid rant about
someone who's bothering him, and I try to offer other perspectives,
he gets and defensive. It's becoming intolerable to spend time
with him, and I feel myself being.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Short and more confrontational with him.

Speaker 4 (59:06):
My question is, how do you cope with maintaining a
positive relationship with a loved one who drives.

Speaker 5 (59:10):
You up the wall?

Speaker 3 (59:11):
Am I being the asshole? After going through therapy?

Speaker 4 (59:14):
Do I now just require everyone around me to also
be in therapy in order for me to stand them.

Speaker 3 (59:19):
Thanks for reading this very long email.

Speaker 4 (59:21):
And I apologize for any typos as I am dyslexic.
I got that from him too, Ali.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
I would send that letter to your father, Seriously, why not?
I mean, he's not going to fucking listen any other way.
I would send exactly that letter and go. I had
to write into a podcast because of how much time
you're taking up out of my life because it's right.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
There, it's right there.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Yeah, It's much more effective, in my opinion, to put
something in writing, because saying it out loud it could
be obfuscated, and it could be turned around, and it
can be manipulated. And if you put it there, he
can reflect and look back on it. And while it's harsh,
some people really need to be treated harshly so that
they could actually get their shit together. And yeah, I
would man that he has to go to therapy in

(01:00:01):
order to be around you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Yeah, yeah, Martha thoughts.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
I agree. I agree.

Speaker 7 (01:00:06):
So I say, even just send the letter that you
wrote into the podcast like verbatim.

Speaker 5 (01:00:12):
However, he's gonna respond.

Speaker 7 (01:00:13):
At least you've gotten it off your chest and you've
said it, and then once you've said it, then you
can go, Okay, this is what I was talking about
in that letter. Yeah, so I got to go, or
this is what I was talking about in that letter,
and I'm gonna end this conversation now, or I'm going
to hang up now you know what I mean, And
you don't have to say it meanly, and you don't
have to get angry, you don't even have to raise

(01:00:34):
your voice. You have to go, see, this is what
I was talking about. So if you want to take
note and maybe change it, that would be great.

Speaker 5 (01:00:40):
Otherwise I got to go now.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Yeah, I love that because pointing it out in the
moment of like did you hear how you just talk
to your girlfriend or did you hear how you just
boss that person around?

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
Or like what would you know about breastfeeding? And when
it's time to stop you when I.

Speaker 7 (01:00:53):
Feel like asking questions about these people is usually a
road to ruin for me. It's not about asking questions,
it's about Okay, this is what I was talking about,
and this is what bothers me. And if you want
to change it, that's great. If you don't, goodbye. It's
very cut and dried with me, particularly with men, I

(01:01:14):
just feel like it's very important not.

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
To leave them an inch, not an inch.

Speaker 7 (01:01:21):
Because they will take it. They will take it and
they will run and they will take that literally. I
mean it's the oldest expression in the book, because it's true.
You know, you give men an inch and they take
a mile. Laying down those boundaries and also knowing that
you're right, you don't have to argue, You don't have
to argue with him, you don't have to tell him
you know anything other than what it is. You just say, look,

(01:01:44):
this behavior is just not okay with me, and I'm
not going to get into it.

Speaker 5 (01:01:48):
I'm not going to fight with you. I don't have
time for that.

Speaker 7 (01:01:51):
So you can change it and that will be great
and we'll have a lovely afternoon or a great conversation,
or I can get off the phone and not.

Speaker 5 (01:01:58):
Talk to you today. Yeah, exactly, that's simple.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
I think you should really be firm in your response,
and you know, in your act of telling him that
that's a very firm way of telling him.

Speaker 5 (01:02:08):
And show him the letter first. Then he has a excuse.

Speaker 7 (01:02:12):
That's his reference point, right, And then and you don't
have it's not a discussion. We're not talking about this.
This is the way it is from now on, because
I think men they want to have a discussion so
they can talk you out of it, or you know,
make it seem like this is all your fault or whatever.

Speaker 5 (01:02:28):
No, don't no, bye.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
And then if all else fails, give him a software upgrade.

Speaker 5 (01:02:33):
Yeah, good luck with that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Well, I hope you are enjoying Martha Plimpton on Tasks,
which is on HBO right HU Sunday nights, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Sunday nights.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
And then I think the season by the time this airs,
I think we're going to be on the season finale. Yes,
and then we'll be looking forward to you on East
of Eden.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
I cannot fucking wait for that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Thank you Martha for sharing your wonderful wisdom about men.

Speaker 5 (01:03:00):
Ah. Thank you so much. This was really fun. I
really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Love it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
I have a great time in London.

Speaker 5 (01:03:07):
Thank you, thank you, Bye bye, bye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
I just announced all my tour dates. They just went
on sale this week. That's called the High and Mighty Tour.
I will be starting in February of next year, so
I will be touring from February through June.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
I haven't added second shows.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Yet, but we probably will be to some of these.
So go get your tickets now. If you want good
seats and you want to come see me perform, I
will be on the High and Mighty Tour.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
Do you want advice from Chelsea?

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. Find
full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Dear Chelsea pod.

Speaker 4 (01:03:45):
Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive
producer Catherine law And be sure to check out our
merch at Chelseahandler dot com