June 24, 2021 • 26 mins
David Sheff, author of THE BUDDHIST ON DEATH ROW; HOW ONE MAN FOUND LIGHT IN THE DARKEST PLACE, shares the story behind the story of Jarvis Masters and how the two of them forged a lasting friendship. Of David’s biography, His Holiness, The Dalai Lama writes, “This book shows vividly how, even in the face of the greatest adversity, compassion and a warm-hearted concern for others bring peace and inner strength.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dear Governor is a production of I Heart Media and
three Months Media. If you are moved by Jarvis Masters
and his thirty years struggle on San Quentin's Death throw,
and you'd like to support his cause, please consider signing
a petition on his behalf. Visit Free Jarvis dot org
slash podcast to sign your name to an open letter
(00:20):
to California Governor Gavin Newsom, Dear Governor Newsom, Dear Mr
Governor Newsom. This is an open letter to Governor Gavin Newsom,
Dear Governor Newsom public. Throughout his life, Jarvis Masters has
(00:44):
endured more injustice and tragedy than any ordinary person. But
then again, Jarvis is anything but ordinary. He has an
almost Forrest Gumpian nature about him, a man who has
been holed up in a nine by four cell since
the first steer President Reagan's first term, who has nevertheless
managed to live a remarkable life, attracting a circle of
(01:06):
supporters that include world renowned spiritual and religious teachers, celebrities,
world class thinkers, philosophers, and writers, from Desmond two two
to Oprah Winfrey to Brian Stevenson. My name is David Chef.
I am a journalist. I've been a journalist for about
thirty forty years. Oh my god, and you know I
(01:28):
had the great fortune meeting Jarvis and then moving forward
with him to write a book about his life and
the most extraordinary experience. One world class writer whom Jarvis
has drawn into his life is author David Chef. David's
best selling memoir A Beautiful Boy was made into a
major motion picture starring Steve Correll and Timothy shallow May,
(01:51):
and his latest work is a biography about Jarvis called
The Buddhist on Death Row How One Man Found Light
in the Darkest Place A in in true gumpy in form,
Jarvis's life story managed to attract the interest of none
other than the Holiness himself, the Dalai Lama. About the
Buddhist on Death Row, he writes, quote, this book shows
(02:12):
vividly how even in the face of the greatest adversity,
compassion and warmhearted concern for others brings peace and inner strength.
David has interviewed some of the most fascinating people in
modern history, including John Lennon, Steve Jobs, Ansel Adams, Betty
for Dan and more. I had a good friend whose
name is Pamela Crosby and for years she talked about
(02:34):
this guy named Jarvis Masters, who she considered her best
friend or one of her best friends on death row
inside Quentin. He was innocent, he'd become a Buddhist practitioner
and teacher. And she described it in ways that you know,
would have been extraordinary way to describe anybody, but somebody
in prison on death row for most of his life.
(02:56):
You know, it was just remarkable about the way that
he connected with so many people that had in spite
of the fact that he lived in one of the
most depressing, dark, scary places imaginable, he still was filled
with this light and joy, and he was positive. And
she would leave him and feel instead of, you know,
(03:18):
sort of depressed and and you know, broken hearted. I
mean she felt that too, but she also talked about
feeling uplifted because he was so much a great presence,
And she kept asking me to go visit him, and
I was busy. I didn't have time to do it.
And at one point I was doing an article for
the New York Times magazine about the warden at Saint Clinton,
(03:38):
whose name was Jeane Whitford, and I asked DEDI if
she's heard about this guy and she had, and she
sort of confirmed some of the stories that I've heard
from Pamela. And it was after that the night I
went to see Jarvis, and I got it, you know,
I got it. I was with him, he was in
the adjustment center, so I was only able to meet
with him with a piece of sence thick PLEXI class
(04:01):
between us. And even through that class, I understood why
Pabla and other people quite spoken to by there and
described him as as a very special person in their lives.
Did you ever been into a prison before. I had
never been on death row. I had no idea what
to expect when I went in this room, the visiting hall,
So yeah, I was. I was nervous. I was unsure.
(04:21):
And by the way, you know, I also knew that
everyone on death row, in fact, everyone in prison, is innocent.
I mean, nine nine percent probably will say that they're innocent,
and of course, you know, we know that most of
them aren't. So I was skeptical. I was not naive
when I went in there. In spite of what Pablo said,
(04:42):
I thought, you know, could he be this just really
good manipulator? Who was you know, taking advantage of this
very kind hearted woman, and so I went in there
with this uncertainty, this trepidation, this nervousness about going into
a place where I knew, you know, some of them
was vile. In criminals, California is the last, probably fifty
(05:03):
year history. We're there. It did not take long for
Jarvis to reassure me and to make me feel very
comfortable there. Following is a memory from the Buddhist on
Death Row in which David first meets Jarvis in San
Quentin audiobook read by Michael Boatman. I sit in a
molded plastic chair on one side of a small table,
opposite a man named Jarvis j. Masters. I tell him
(05:28):
I'm considering writing a book about him, and ask what
he thinks of the idea. I emphasize that if I
go forward, I'll report what I find, both the good
and the bad. I can't be painted worse than I've
been painted, Master says, and I guess that's true for
someone convicted of murder. I mean, he adds, look where
(05:51):
we are. Where we are is in a closet sized
cage among a dozen similar cages in a visitation hall
served for the condemned at San Quentin State Prison. I
follow Master's gaze as it sweeps the other cages in
which convicted killers sit with family members or attorneys. Ramone
(06:13):
Bojorkez Salcido, convicted of murdering seven people, including his wife
and daughters, sits with his lawyer in a cage opposite ours. Nearby,
Richard Allan Davis, who raped and killed a twelve year
old girl much as Dorito's, in the cage on the end,
near a bookshelf lined with board games and bibles. Scott Peterson,
(06:37):
convicted of murdering his eight months pregnant wife and their
unborn child, sits with his sister. Peterson looks relaxed and fit,
but some prisoners appear tense, agitated, or sullen. And then
there are guys diminutive, bespectacled, innocuous who look like tellers
(06:57):
or in one case John Oliver, there looks deceived. Masters
says over the years he's been surprised when he's learned
about the crimes committed by the meekest and politest of
his death Row neighbors. Some of them have perfect manners,
placed their napkins on their laps, but half of Iowa's missing.
(07:20):
What was it about? Jarvis he had already written to
autobiographical books, That Bird Has My Wings and Finding Freedom.
What did you want to write about Jarvis and accomplish
with your book that that wasn't already accomplished with his
own biography. That's a really good question. I had read
(07:41):
Jarvis's books, I didn't mention math even before I went
to see him. Yeah, it really was impressed by them
and moved by them. I really got insights both to
his life, his history, and also to his mind his
spiritual practice. I guess I was still ascinated, really intrigued,
(08:01):
and maybe even in a personal way, drawn to Jarvis's
story because it was about how people can change, how
a person changed, and it was something that I struggle
with and and continue to struggle with in my life,
people around me suffering, and I felt that, you know,
there was a story that was must to be told.
I mean, Jervis's perspective on things was amazing and fascinating.
(08:24):
But when we see a person from the outside, we
see the story in a different way. And I saw
this a challenge because it was very unlike anything I'd
ever written before, and the challenge was to write about change,
to write about a person's spiritual transformation requires going inside
(08:45):
their head, and so much of that process is internal,
especially when you're sitting in the jail cell there we
know you know it retreats up the mountains to tobout
to to you know, to visit the guru um and
so you to to go into that world to try
it was a challenge to try to figure out, you know,
how to how to tell that story. And it was
(09:07):
very meaningful to me in the personal way. As I said,
when I was here from Pamel and by then I
met some of his other friends, and I met his
teacher Pama children. And the idea that the person on
death row who had the brutal life that he had
was someone who could instruct all of us, who teach
(09:28):
us uh, it seemed in some ways inconceivable. So I
wanted to find out. I wanted to understand who he
was and what that experience was and what that message was,
and to see if it was true. Relationship began very tentatively.
(09:56):
I knew him from his biography and through his friends UM,
but I didn't really know him and didn't know personally,
and he certainly didn't know me. In our relationship, like
any relationship evolved. The evolved evolved slowly, very slowly. We
got to know each other, and it wasn't I mean,
(10:16):
a small part of it was my deciding to commit
to writing about him, because that's hard, you know, talk about.
But the bigger part challenge actually came from his side,
which is to see if, over the course of our
getting to know each other, that Jarvis would come to
trust me to tell his story. I mean, it is
(10:39):
a lot to ask someone. And so it evolved very
very very slowly, and I started to have the kinds
of experience as other people talked about with him. You know,
he never intended to be some you know, sort of
guru spiritual teacher. In fact, he you know, he laughed
and almost in some ways even disdainful of the idea
(11:01):
that he was. But I began to have experiences with
him where I really did feel like I was both
learning from him and was inspired by him and then
attracted other parts of my life. Can you give an
example of that. Those experiences, there were just so many,
and they happened over time, and I think that I
(11:21):
think for going deep with him was maybe meaningful to
him too, because I do know that there were many
times when all of a sudden we would kind of
be lifted out of that grim visiting room inside Saint
Quentin and we were somewhere else, and I think that
we both shared it and I would look at each
other and suddenly be back in that room and realized, God,
where did we just go? Um? You know the one
(11:45):
that I guess that I ended up telling him in
the book that really sort of into into me says it.
But I visited Jarvis on Christmas Day in the visiting room,
and when you visit in May in the family visiting room.
At the difference, I mean one that I generally met.
Hey man, I met him in the legal visiting room,
(12:06):
which is quiet cages. I mean it's not quiet. It's
nothing in St. Quyton is quiet. But the family visiting
room has families, has kids, has laughter, has yelling and crying.
There's many many that's bigger. So I was in this
room with him and we were talking, and I was
looking around and I was seeing what to me was
(12:27):
so sad. It was all these children and wives, their
girlfriends and parents and brothers and sisters who on Christmas
had come to visit the person that they loved in prison. Uh.
They're chained when they walk in there, they're locked in
(12:48):
this cage. And it was heartbreaking to me, and I
just started to say something to Jervis. I started to say,
oh my god, this is so sad, these poor people
having to come see the person that they loved in
president on death row on Christmas. And just then Jarvis,
(13:09):
you know, he had this like light as he was
looking around the room and what he saw. He said,
look at the love in this room. Uh, look at
the love. You know, these fathers with their children, their girlfriends,
their wives, their parents. And suddenly I realized I saw
through Jervis's eyes, and I got it, and it was
(13:30):
moving to me. I know you're not a Buddhist, but
I assume there was a pretty high learning curve to
tell his story, the story of a of a true
Buddhist was that intimidating. Yeah. I had, you know, a
very very very shallow idea of knowledge about what it
what Buddhism is. And I was told by you know,
(13:52):
Jervis's friend and teacher, Pami Schodren that she thought, ultimately
it was a really good thing that someone who wasn't
to Buddhist came in to tell the story because I
came into this in the same way Jarvis came into
it not only not a Buddhist but cynical religion and
spiritualism and spirituality. And so I was guided into Buddhism,
(14:14):
understanding Buddhism just like he was. And he didn't did
his teachers did it. Because I had a lot of
conversations with his teachers, and I came to understand. I mean,
I never went to the formal religion of Buddhism, and
not at the Jarvis I don't think. I mean, I
think I too was moved by the stories and the
(14:35):
cons and and the experience just the just the Buddhist
perspective on life that has to do with recognizing suffering,
connecting with other people, realizing a responsibility to try to
alleviate suffering when we do see it. I mean, I
got all that. By the end, I really understood it.
And I still can't tell you the names of you know,
(14:56):
the various the Buddhism, the incarnations and all that, and
and but I got the essence. And Jarvis told me
that Buddhist is there for anybody. Jarvis's first introduction to
the tenants of Buddhism arrived, not coincidentally, the day after
the State of California had officially sentenced him to death.
Here is his memory of that life altering day and
(15:18):
excerpt from the Buddhist on death Row. The next morning,
breakfast was delivered as usual, and the day progressed as
if nothing had changed. Also as usual, the mail was delivered.
In the evening, Jarvis examined a large envelope from someone
named Lisa Leghorn, who, in a note explained that she
(15:40):
was an assistant and interpreter to chag dud Toolkul Rinpoche,
the Buddhist llama Jarvis had written two months before. Leghorn
wrote that Rinpoche was glad that Jarvis had reached out
to him, and she referred to a small book in
the package entitled Life in Relation to Death, which contained
(16:01):
a transcript of a talk by the Lama. Read it,
she said, see if it speaks to you. Jarvis picked
the book up and was instantly transfixed. On the first page,
the llama described death as a subject people often ignore
or think about frivolously, as if it were no big deal.
(16:24):
Then the author wrote, this is a nice theory until
one is dying, then experience and theory differ, he continued.
Then one is powerless and everything familiar is lost. One
is overwhelmed by a great turbulence of fear, disorientation, and confusion.
(16:48):
For this reason, it is essential to prepare well in
advance for the moment when the mind and body separate.
Jarvis closed the book and breathed deeply. A familiar, choking
emotion welled up in him. Anguish, but he read on.
The teacher said that all people should prepare for death,
(17:11):
and one approach was to picture the ways they might die.
He listed an airplane crash, an automobile accident, a terminal illness,
and being stabbed by a mugger. He didn't mention the
gas chamber. Another approach was called meditative contemplations. Jarvis read
(17:33):
through them quickly until he got to one that made
him shudder. People should ask themselves two questions every night
before bed. If I die tonight in my sleep, what
have I done with my life? Have I been of benefit?
Or have I caused harm? Jarvis needed no time to
(17:54):
ponder his answer. He knew that he'd benefited no one,
and he'd caused immeasurable harm. He read all night. Dawn
was breaking as he turned the final page, but he
was wide awake. He didn't believe in omens, but he
reeled at the thought that during his first day on
(18:15):
death Row, the mail had brought him a guide to dying.
Biographer David Chef continues, even though I still not a
(18:35):
Buddhist side get it. It's kind of so useful to me.
The less of the Buddhism are useful to me. Meditation
this profound. I didn't get that either until I heard
about Jarvis's journey into meditation and learned how it really
changed his life. So all that I took away from experience.
What has impacted you the most in learning the lessons?
(18:58):
Is it the meditation specif? Well, you know, meditation is profound.
But the reason that it was profound to me is
when it's the same, it's sort of the message overall
that Jarvis learned them that I learned from Jarvis's experience,
which is that my idea of meditation when you sit
with your eyes closed and your legs crossed and your
spine straight, and you sort of bliss out, you know,
(19:21):
to time out. It's a way to get away from
the rest of your stresses in your life. But what
Jarvis learned the hard way and I ended up learning
the hard way, is that's not what happens. I mean, yeah,
there are those moments, but also you know, you're if
you're opening your mind, you're opening your mind to whatever
is inside you. Some of what is inside you is
(19:45):
pain and heard and trauma. And you know, this lesson
that I saw that was a result of meditation, it's
really the ultimate was the ultimate challenge, I think for
Jarvis and for me, which is, you know, be beyond meditation.
You know, it's sort of summed with this, you know,
I guess in some ways that's the biggest cliche, but
(20:06):
it says, you know, the only way out is through,
which means, you know, the only way to get through
the traumas that we experience, the only way to move
forward in our lives, to be better, to be a
better person, to have relationships that are more meaningful. You
can't run from it. You got to go back into it,
and it is hard and it is painful, but that
(20:28):
is what I was left with more than anything. So
he when I was talking with him when he was
on his most recent hunger strike, I was asking him
you know, does he pass the time through meditation? And
his answer was, he's not sitting down and meditating. He said,
he wants to be fully present. He doesn't want to escape,
(20:48):
he doesn't want to escape the experience. And I just thought,
holy cow, that is not the ultimate. And that's you know,
that's what he said to me at one point two.
I mean, he was meditating for a period of time,
hours every day, but at one point he said to
me that he meditates all the time or never, whichever
(21:10):
however you want to look at it. But it is
being present in that moment, and that's something that you
learned from meditation. And I think that's probably the goal
of being a Buddhist is or or a meditating whatever
it is, is that when it becomes who you are
and you start to perceive the world and feel the
world and experience the world in a very different way.
And I guess I feel like, you know, that's a
(21:31):
good observation that you know, the way you just explained it. Yeah,
I have found it, and I know you and I
have discussed the fact that and it's I've talked to
so many people interviewing them for the podcast that to
know Jervis is to love Jarvis and and people use
that exact phrase. What do you think it is about
him that that makes him such a compelling central character? Well,
(21:56):
I love Jarvis, and love is not something that I
come to you never have in my life, and it
is you know, about the relationship that grew and developed
over time with somebody who was as open and gentle
and kind and loving um as anyone. And you know,
(22:18):
I came in there as the interviewer, you know, the
journalist to record his story. But I mean this great
friend who I still consider one of the dearest friends
in my life, and the relationship was reciprocal. You know,
I was there when Jarvis had some of the most
challenging times that he's had in the last you know,
five six years, huge disappointments related to relationships and big,
(22:41):
big disappointments related to his appeals, his cases, you know,
his case moving forward. That Jarvis has been there for me,
uh in so many different circumstances. You know, I lost
a dear friend and he was the one that was
on the phone checking in with me. I was sick
for a while and he was checking with me as well.
And even when I was well enough to go visit again.
(23:03):
That was always the first thing, you know, and he
did it sometimes he teach me about it. You know, God,
you look terrible. He was letting going on with you.
But it was very genuine and very open, and it
was this relationship. And that's how I guess, you know,
relationships develop, and closeness develops, and friendships developed, and eventually,
you know, it was a very very few because of
(23:24):
the combination of those things. And maybe there's something else
that I don't fully understand. It is this chemistry or
there is a spiritual connection that it does become a
different kind of relationship and it does feel different. And yes,
it said Jervis is connected with others and family. My
son Jasper went to visit him. My wife Karen went
to visit him, and she fell in love with him.
(23:44):
Do Dandy writes him these beautiful letters. Jasper, Jasper and
Jarvis communicate by letters and occasionally Virus will be able
to call him and there's a real connection. And my
son Nick was going to go see him too, but
because Dick was once arrested when he was and he
was he was a lot of good. But you know,
he does feel like you know. I know other people
(24:05):
have said this to you, but he feels like a
part of our family and he always will Yeah, yeah,
the same with me. He always asked whenever he signs
off the ice, is how's big Mama? What he calls
my mother? So cool? Yeah, and he does. He cares.
At one time. I mean, this is probably not even
(24:26):
in parts to tell, but quickly I was sitting my
father in law. Caron's parents are a hundred and ninety
four years old, respectively, and one time he called him.
I was talking to my in law and I was
going to call him back, but then I said, um,
I took his call, and I said, hey, because they've
heard stories about Jars three years, I always asked you
(24:48):
about him, and I put him on speaker phone, and
it was absolutely the greatest playing. Mother in law his
hysterical and she she was saying, God, I wish you
could come over for dinner tonight, and when you get
out of there, I mean to cook you whatever. My
mother said the same thing. So we're gonna have to
have a giant freedom Schmorgh board. Next week we'll hear
(25:12):
Jarvis's side of the story and why he agreed to
give David Cheff, a perfect stranger at the time unfettered
access to his private life. Audio excerpts courtesy of Simon
and Schuster. Audio from The Buddhist on Death Row by
David Cheff, read by Michael Boatman, Copyright by David Cheff,
used with permission of Simon and Schuster, Inc. The Buddhist
(25:34):
on Death Row is out in paperback this week. This
episode was written and produced by Donni Fazzari and myself
Corny Cole. Our theme song sentenced his compliments of the
band Stick Figure from their album Set in Stone. Stu
Sternbach composed the original music. Nate Dufort did the sound design.
For more information on Jarvis and to find out how
(25:56):
you can follow his case and support his cause, please
visit free Jarvis dot org. For more podcasts. For my
Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Dear Governor is a production of I Heart Media and
three Months Media. If you are moved by Jarvis Masters
and his thirty years struggle on San Quentin's Death throw,
and you'd like to support his cause, please consider signing
a petition on his behalf. Visit Free Jarvis dot org
slash podcast to sign your name to an open letter
(00:20):
to California Governor Gavin Newsom, Dear Governor Newsom, Dear Mr
Governor Newsom. This is an open letter to Governor Gavin Newsom,
Dear Governor Newsom public. Throughout his life, Jarvis Masters has
(00:44):
endured more injustice and tragedy than any ordinary person. But
then again, Jarvis is anything but ordinary. He has an
almost Forrest Gumpian nature about him, a man who has
been holed up in a nine by four cell since
the first steer President Reagan's first term, who has nevertheless
managed to live a remarkable life, attracting a circle of
(01:06):
supporters that include world renowned spiritual and religious teachers, celebrities,
world class thinkers, philosophers, and writers, from Desmond two two
to Oprah Winfrey to Brian Stevenson. My name is David Chef.
I am a journalist. I've been a journalist for about
thirty forty years. Oh my god, and you know I
(01:28):
had the great fortune meeting Jarvis and then moving forward
with him to write a book about his life and
the most extraordinary experience. One world class writer whom Jarvis
has drawn into his life is author David Chef. David's
best selling memoir A Beautiful Boy was made into a
major motion picture starring Steve Correll and Timothy shallow May,
(01:51):
and his latest work is a biography about Jarvis called
The Buddhist on Death Row How One Man Found Light
in the Darkest Place A in in true gumpy in form,
Jarvis's life story managed to attract the interest of none
other than the Holiness himself, the Dalai Lama. About the
Buddhist on Death Row, he writes, quote, this book shows
(02:12):
vividly how even in the face of the greatest adversity,
compassion and warmhearted concern for others brings peace and inner strength.
David has interviewed some of the most fascinating people in
modern history, including John Lennon, Steve Jobs, Ansel Adams, Betty
for Dan and more. I had a good friend whose
name is Pamela Crosby and for years she talked about
(02:34):
this guy named Jarvis Masters, who she considered her best
friend or one of her best friends on death row
inside Quentin. He was innocent, he'd become a Buddhist practitioner
and teacher. And she described it in ways that you know,
would have been extraordinary way to describe anybody, but somebody
in prison on death row for most of his life.
(02:56):
You know, it was just remarkable about the way that
he connected with so many people that had in spite
of the fact that he lived in one of the
most depressing, dark, scary places imaginable, he still was filled
with this light and joy, and he was positive. And
she would leave him and feel instead of, you know,
(03:18):
sort of depressed and and you know, broken hearted. I
mean she felt that too, but she also talked about
feeling uplifted because he was so much a great presence,
And she kept asking me to go visit him, and
I was busy. I didn't have time to do it.
And at one point I was doing an article for
the New York Times magazine about the warden at Saint Clinton,
(03:38):
whose name was Jeane Whitford, and I asked DEDI if
she's heard about this guy and she had, and she
sort of confirmed some of the stories that I've heard
from Pamela. And it was after that the night I
went to see Jarvis, and I got it, you know,
I got it. I was with him, he was in
the adjustment center, so I was only able to meet
with him with a piece of sence thick PLEXI class
(04:01):
between us. And even through that class, I understood why
Pabla and other people quite spoken to by there and
described him as as a very special person in their lives.
Did you ever been into a prison before. I had
never been on death row. I had no idea what
to expect when I went in this room, the visiting hall,
So yeah, I was. I was nervous. I was unsure.
(04:21):
And by the way, you know, I also knew that
everyone on death row, in fact, everyone in prison, is innocent.
I mean, nine nine percent probably will say that they're innocent,
and of course, you know, we know that most of
them aren't. So I was skeptical. I was not naive
when I went in there. In spite of what Pablo said,
(04:42):
I thought, you know, could he be this just really
good manipulator? Who was you know, taking advantage of this
very kind hearted woman, and so I went in there
with this uncertainty, this trepidation, this nervousness about going into
a place where I knew, you know, some of them
was vile. In criminals, California is the last, probably fifty
(05:03):
year history. We're there. It did not take long for
Jarvis to reassure me and to make me feel very
comfortable there. Following is a memory from the Buddhist on
Death Row in which David first meets Jarvis in San
Quentin audiobook read by Michael Boatman. I sit in a
molded plastic chair on one side of a small table,
opposite a man named Jarvis j. Masters. I tell him
(05:28):
I'm considering writing a book about him, and ask what
he thinks of the idea. I emphasize that if I
go forward, I'll report what I find, both the good
and the bad. I can't be painted worse than I've
been painted, Master says, and I guess that's true for
someone convicted of murder. I mean, he adds, look where
(05:51):
we are. Where we are is in a closet sized
cage among a dozen similar cages in a visitation hall
served for the condemned at San Quentin State Prison. I
follow Master's gaze as it sweeps the other cages in
which convicted killers sit with family members or attorneys. Ramone
(06:13):
Bojorkez Salcido, convicted of murdering seven people, including his wife
and daughters, sits with his lawyer in a cage opposite ours. Nearby,
Richard Allan Davis, who raped and killed a twelve year
old girl much as Dorito's, in the cage on the end,
near a bookshelf lined with board games and bibles. Scott Peterson,
(06:37):
convicted of murdering his eight months pregnant wife and their
unborn child, sits with his sister. Peterson looks relaxed and fit,
but some prisoners appear tense, agitated, or sullen. And then
there are guys diminutive, bespectacled, innocuous who look like tellers
(06:57):
or in one case John Oliver, there looks deceived. Masters
says over the years he's been surprised when he's learned
about the crimes committed by the meekest and politest of
his death Row neighbors. Some of them have perfect manners,
placed their napkins on their laps, but half of Iowa's missing.
(07:20):
What was it about? Jarvis he had already written to
autobiographical books, That Bird Has My Wings and Finding Freedom.
What did you want to write about Jarvis and accomplish
with your book that that wasn't already accomplished with his
own biography. That's a really good question. I had read
(07:41):
Jarvis's books, I didn't mention math even before I went
to see him. Yeah, it really was impressed by them
and moved by them. I really got insights both to
his life, his history, and also to his mind his
spiritual practice. I guess I was still ascinated, really intrigued,
(08:01):
and maybe even in a personal way, drawn to Jarvis's
story because it was about how people can change, how
a person changed, and it was something that I struggle
with and and continue to struggle with in my life,
people around me suffering, and I felt that, you know,
there was a story that was must to be told.
I mean, Jervis's perspective on things was amazing and fascinating.
(08:24):
But when we see a person from the outside, we
see the story in a different way. And I saw
this a challenge because it was very unlike anything I'd
ever written before, and the challenge was to write about change,
to write about a person's spiritual transformation requires going inside
(08:45):
their head, and so much of that process is internal,
especially when you're sitting in the jail cell there we
know you know it retreats up the mountains to tobout
to to you know, to visit the guru um and
so you to to go into that world to try
it was a challenge to try to figure out, you know,
how to how to tell that story. And it was
(09:07):
very meaningful to me in the personal way. As I said,
when I was here from Pamel and by then I
met some of his other friends, and I met his
teacher Pama children. And the idea that the person on
death row who had the brutal life that he had
was someone who could instruct all of us, who teach
(09:28):
us uh, it seemed in some ways inconceivable. So I
wanted to find out. I wanted to understand who he
was and what that experience was and what that message was,
and to see if it was true. Relationship began very tentatively.
(09:56):
I knew him from his biography and through his friends UM,
but I didn't really know him and didn't know personally,
and he certainly didn't know me. In our relationship, like
any relationship evolved. The evolved evolved slowly, very slowly. We
got to know each other, and it wasn't I mean,
(10:16):
a small part of it was my deciding to commit
to writing about him, because that's hard, you know, talk about.
But the bigger part challenge actually came from his side,
which is to see if, over the course of our
getting to know each other, that Jarvis would come to
trust me to tell his story. I mean, it is
(10:39):
a lot to ask someone. And so it evolved very
very very slowly, and I started to have the kinds
of experience as other people talked about with him. You know,
he never intended to be some you know, sort of
guru spiritual teacher. In fact, he you know, he laughed
and almost in some ways even disdainful of the idea
(11:01):
that he was. But I began to have experiences with
him where I really did feel like I was both
learning from him and was inspired by him and then
attracted other parts of my life. Can you give an
example of that. Those experiences, there were just so many,
and they happened over time, and I think that I
(11:21):
think for going deep with him was maybe meaningful to
him too, because I do know that there were many
times when all of a sudden we would kind of
be lifted out of that grim visiting room inside Saint
Quentin and we were somewhere else, and I think that
we both shared it and I would look at each
other and suddenly be back in that room and realized, God,
where did we just go? Um? You know the one
(11:45):
that I guess that I ended up telling him in
the book that really sort of into into me says it.
But I visited Jarvis on Christmas Day in the visiting room,
and when you visit in May in the family visiting room.
At the difference, I mean one that I generally met.
Hey man, I met him in the legal visiting room,
(12:06):
which is quiet cages. I mean it's not quiet. It's
nothing in St. Quyton is quiet. But the family visiting
room has families, has kids, has laughter, has yelling and crying.
There's many many that's bigger. So I was in this
room with him and we were talking, and I was
looking around and I was seeing what to me was
(12:27):
so sad. It was all these children and wives, their
girlfriends and parents and brothers and sisters who on Christmas
had come to visit the person that they loved in prison. Uh.
They're chained when they walk in there, they're locked in
(12:48):
this cage. And it was heartbreaking to me, and I
just started to say something to Jervis. I started to say,
oh my god, this is so sad, these poor people
having to come see the person that they loved in
president on death row on Christmas. And just then Jarvis,
(13:09):
you know, he had this like light as he was
looking around the room and what he saw. He said,
look at the love in this room. Uh, look at
the love. You know, these fathers with their children, their girlfriends,
their wives, their parents. And suddenly I realized I saw
through Jervis's eyes, and I got it, and it was
(13:30):
moving to me. I know you're not a Buddhist, but
I assume there was a pretty high learning curve to
tell his story, the story of a of a true
Buddhist was that intimidating. Yeah. I had, you know, a
very very very shallow idea of knowledge about what it
what Buddhism is. And I was told by you know,
(13:52):
Jervis's friend and teacher, Pami Schodren that she thought, ultimately
it was a really good thing that someone who wasn't
to Buddhist came in to tell the story because I
came into this in the same way Jarvis came into
it not only not a Buddhist but cynical religion and
spiritualism and spirituality. And so I was guided into Buddhism,
(14:14):
understanding Buddhism just like he was. And he didn't did
his teachers did it. Because I had a lot of
conversations with his teachers, and I came to understand. I mean,
I never went to the formal religion of Buddhism, and
not at the Jarvis I don't think. I mean, I
think I too was moved by the stories and the
(14:35):
cons and and the experience just the just the Buddhist
perspective on life that has to do with recognizing suffering,
connecting with other people, realizing a responsibility to try to
alleviate suffering when we do see it. I mean, I
got all that. By the end, I really understood it.
And I still can't tell you the names of you know,
(14:56):
the various the Buddhism, the incarnations and all that, and
and but I got the essence. And Jarvis told me
that Buddhist is there for anybody. Jarvis's first introduction to
the tenants of Buddhism arrived, not coincidentally, the day after
the State of California had officially sentenced him to death.
Here is his memory of that life altering day and
(15:18):
excerpt from the Buddhist on death Row. The next morning,
breakfast was delivered as usual, and the day progressed as
if nothing had changed. Also as usual, the mail was delivered.
In the evening, Jarvis examined a large envelope from someone
named Lisa Leghorn, who, in a note explained that she
(15:40):
was an assistant and interpreter to chag dud Toolkul Rinpoche,
the Buddhist llama Jarvis had written two months before. Leghorn
wrote that Rinpoche was glad that Jarvis had reached out
to him, and she referred to a small book in
the package entitled Life in Relation to Death, which contained
(16:01):
a transcript of a talk by the Lama. Read it,
she said, see if it speaks to you. Jarvis picked
the book up and was instantly transfixed. On the first page,
the llama described death as a subject people often ignore
or think about frivolously, as if it were no big deal.
(16:24):
Then the author wrote, this is a nice theory until
one is dying, then experience and theory differ, he continued.
Then one is powerless and everything familiar is lost. One
is overwhelmed by a great turbulence of fear, disorientation, and confusion.
(16:48):
For this reason, it is essential to prepare well in
advance for the moment when the mind and body separate.
Jarvis closed the book and breathed deeply. A familiar, choking
emotion welled up in him. Anguish, but he read on.
The teacher said that all people should prepare for death,
(17:11):
and one approach was to picture the ways they might die.
He listed an airplane crash, an automobile accident, a terminal illness,
and being stabbed by a mugger. He didn't mention the
gas chamber. Another approach was called meditative contemplations. Jarvis read
(17:33):
through them quickly until he got to one that made
him shudder. People should ask themselves two questions every night
before bed. If I die tonight in my sleep, what
have I done with my life? Have I been of benefit?
Or have I caused harm? Jarvis needed no time to
(17:54):
ponder his answer. He knew that he'd benefited no one,
and he'd caused immeasurable harm. He read all night. Dawn
was breaking as he turned the final page, but he
was wide awake. He didn't believe in omens, but he
reeled at the thought that during his first day on
(18:15):
death Row, the mail had brought him a guide to dying.
Biographer David Chef continues, even though I still not a
(18:35):
Buddhist side get it. It's kind of so useful to me.
The less of the Buddhism are useful to me. Meditation
this profound. I didn't get that either until I heard
about Jarvis's journey into meditation and learned how it really
changed his life. So all that I took away from experience.
What has impacted you the most in learning the lessons?
(18:58):
Is it the meditation specif? Well, you know, meditation is profound.
But the reason that it was profound to me is
when it's the same, it's sort of the message overall
that Jarvis learned them that I learned from Jarvis's experience,
which is that my idea of meditation when you sit
with your eyes closed and your legs crossed and your
spine straight, and you sort of bliss out, you know,
(19:21):
to time out. It's a way to get away from
the rest of your stresses in your life. But what
Jarvis learned the hard way and I ended up learning
the hard way, is that's not what happens. I mean, yeah,
there are those moments, but also you know, you're if
you're opening your mind, you're opening your mind to whatever
is inside you. Some of what is inside you is
(19:45):
pain and heard and trauma. And you know, this lesson
that I saw that was a result of meditation, it's
really the ultimate was the ultimate challenge, I think for
Jarvis and for me, which is, you know, be beyond meditation.
You know, it's sort of summed with this, you know,
I guess in some ways that's the biggest cliche, but
(20:06):
it says, you know, the only way out is through,
which means, you know, the only way to get through
the traumas that we experience, the only way to move
forward in our lives, to be better, to be a
better person, to have relationships that are more meaningful. You
can't run from it. You got to go back into it,
and it is hard and it is painful, but that
(20:28):
is what I was left with more than anything. So
he when I was talking with him when he was
on his most recent hunger strike, I was asking him
you know, does he pass the time through meditation? And
his answer was, he's not sitting down and meditating. He said,
he wants to be fully present. He doesn't want to escape,
(20:48):
he doesn't want to escape the experience. And I just thought,
holy cow, that is not the ultimate. And that's you know,
that's what he said to me at one point two.
I mean, he was meditating for a period of time,
hours every day, but at one point he said to
me that he meditates all the time or never, whichever
(21:10):
however you want to look at it. But it is
being present in that moment, and that's something that you
learned from meditation. And I think that's probably the goal
of being a Buddhist is or or a meditating whatever
it is, is that when it becomes who you are
and you start to perceive the world and feel the
world and experience the world in a very different way.
And I guess I feel like, you know, that's a
(21:31):
good observation that you know, the way you just explained it. Yeah,
I have found it, and I know you and I
have discussed the fact that and it's I've talked to
so many people interviewing them for the podcast that to
know Jervis is to love Jarvis and and people use
that exact phrase. What do you think it is about
him that that makes him such a compelling central character? Well,
(21:56):
I love Jarvis, and love is not something that I
come to you never have in my life, and it
is you know, about the relationship that grew and developed
over time with somebody who was as open and gentle
and kind and loving um as anyone. And you know,
(22:18):
I came in there as the interviewer, you know, the
journalist to record his story. But I mean this great
friend who I still consider one of the dearest friends
in my life, and the relationship was reciprocal. You know,
I was there when Jarvis had some of the most
challenging times that he's had in the last you know,
five six years, huge disappointments related to relationships and big,
(22:41):
big disappointments related to his appeals, his cases, you know,
his case moving forward. That Jarvis has been there for me,
uh in so many different circumstances. You know, I lost
a dear friend and he was the one that was
on the phone checking in with me. I was sick
for a while and he was checking with me as well.
And even when I was well enough to go visit again.
(23:03):
That was always the first thing, you know, and he
did it sometimes he teach me about it. You know, God,
you look terrible. He was letting going on with you.
But it was very genuine and very open, and it
was this relationship. And that's how I guess, you know,
relationships develop, and closeness develops, and friendships developed, and eventually,
you know, it was a very very few because of
(23:24):
the combination of those things. And maybe there's something else
that I don't fully understand. It is this chemistry or
there is a spiritual connection that it does become a
different kind of relationship and it does feel different. And yes,
it said Jervis is connected with others and family. My
son Jasper went to visit him. My wife Karen went
to visit him, and she fell in love with him.
(23:44):
Do Dandy writes him these beautiful letters. Jasper, Jasper and
Jarvis communicate by letters and occasionally Virus will be able
to call him and there's a real connection. And my
son Nick was going to go see him too, but
because Dick was once arrested when he was and he
was he was a lot of good. But you know,
he does feel like you know. I know other people
(24:05):
have said this to you, but he feels like a
part of our family and he always will Yeah, yeah,
the same with me. He always asked whenever he signs
off the ice, is how's big Mama? What he calls
my mother? So cool? Yeah, and he does. He cares.
At one time. I mean, this is probably not even
(24:26):
in parts to tell, but quickly I was sitting my
father in law. Caron's parents are a hundred and ninety
four years old, respectively, and one time he called him.
I was talking to my in law and I was
going to call him back, but then I said, um,
I took his call, and I said, hey, because they've
heard stories about Jars three years, I always asked you
(24:48):
about him, and I put him on speaker phone, and
it was absolutely the greatest playing. Mother in law his
hysterical and she she was saying, God, I wish you
could come over for dinner tonight, and when you get
out of there, I mean to cook you whatever. My
mother said the same thing. So we're gonna have to
have a giant freedom Schmorgh board. Next week we'll hear
(25:12):
Jarvis's side of the story and why he agreed to
give David Cheff, a perfect stranger at the time unfettered
access to his private life. Audio excerpts courtesy of Simon
and Schuster. Audio from The Buddhist on Death Row by
David Cheff, read by Michael Boatman, Copyright by David Cheff,
used with permission of Simon and Schuster, Inc. The Buddhist
(25:34):
on Death Row is out in paperback this week. This
episode was written and produced by Donni Fazzari and myself
Corny Cole. Our theme song sentenced his compliments of the
band Stick Figure from their album Set in Stone. Stu
Sternbach composed the original music. Nate Dufort did the sound design.
For more information on Jarvis and to find out how
(25:56):
you can follow his case and support his cause, please
visit free Jarvis dot org. For more podcasts. For my
Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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