Bong Joon Ho & Mickey 17 (2025) featuring Josh Fadem

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, Casey Obrian, Hello, Millie de Cheriko. How are you.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm hanging in there. I gotta admit I'm a little groggy,
a little, a little jet lagged. I just got back
from Japan a couple days. Yes, I feel like shit.
I gotta be honest.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
What's up?

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Well, Hey, that's a great energy to bring into this
episode today. You know it's April Fool's Day. Have you
ever pulled any really righteous pranks on anybody on April Fools?

Speaker 3 (00:39):
No?

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I hate pranks.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
I do too. I hate pranks, very anti prank Here's
the thing.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Y'all can do pranks, do pranks on each other. I'll watch,
I'll laugh. Do not prank me. I don't want to
be pranked. I won't prank you because I just I
don't like I don't like not being in control. Casey,
I hear you.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
One time, when I was in grade school, a girl
said she broke her ankle and wore a cast to
school the week leading up to April Fools, and then
on April Fools she stood up and was like, April Fools,
that was a prank, and everyone was kind of like, well,
we like carried your books all week.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
What a bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
So I've it was ingrained in me from a very
young age. But yes, we will not be pranking today
because this show sounds so good that it sounds like
it could be a prank, but it is simply not
a prank. Today we are talking about Bong June Hoe
and his newest movie, Mickey seventeen, which is I'm very
excited to get into that, and we've got an exciting

(01:44):
guest today. Don't tweet movie, oh we do.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
We have our great friend Josh fatom actor, comedian, noir expert.
I'm calling him a noir expert, sure, but he's he's
going to be here to talk about his area of expertise,
which is actually not film the war, uh, it is
something even more exciting, but also in the Asian cinema realm.
So this we've got kind of like maybe a theme going.

(02:09):
We've got Bom Juno, We've got Josh's air of expertise.
I've just come back from Japan. I still have sushi
running through my veins. So this is gonna be a
very like, I don't know, Asian episode. Wouldn't you say.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
I love it, I would say, And it's thrilling that's right.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, listen, stay tuned, everybody. This is perhaps your favorite podcast,
Deer Movies.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
I Love you, Dear, I love you, and I've got
to know you love me to check the books.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yes, that's right, this is Dear Movies, I Love You.
My name is Millie. That's Casey, right, it's me yep Hi,
and we are doing a podcast again about being in
love with the movies, being obsessed with the movies, being
down bad for the movies.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
So we have so much to say in this episode.
I have a lot to say about our feature film
that we're gonna talk about making seventeen, because I have
I have such a story around seeing that movie that
relates to a film grape that I expressed many episodes ago.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Now, well, I'm at the edge of my seat. You
hinted at it before recording, so I can't wait to
dig into it more. When we discussed that movie, but
like we start every episode, we have to get into
our film diary where we talk about the movies we
most recently saw this from this past week. So yeah,

(03:55):
let's open up those film diaries. I included a sound
effect last step episode that I was very proud of
and so uh get forward to that, look forward to
that right here, and uh all in all future episodes.
So you mentioned how.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
It is. It was a lot of hard work creating.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, I felt like a sound designer. I felt like,
uh yeah, I felt like Ben Bert, you know, creating
the C three po and R two D two beeps
or whatever. But yes, thank you, Millie. I'm I'm glad
you noticed the sound effect and I'm glad you appreciated it.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
I like how it took you a long time to
create basically the sound from the beginning of Michael Jackson's thriller.
So I'm and I'm happy because you did it for
me and I appreciate it. But so, my film diary
is very short because we actually had to watch a
lot of movies this week for the actual podcast.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, we did, or.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
At least I was like feeling like I needed to
just to get my bearings. But I watched one film
a little wild. I have to say, I watched a
movie called Olivia from nineteen eighty three. It was directed
by a German Man named Ulie Lamil. And if you

(05:17):
don't know uli Lamil, I hope I'm even pronouncing it right, apologies,
he was was he's dead. He was an actor, a director.
He worked a lot with Rainier Werner of hespender Uh
and so he was kind of in that in that

(05:40):
world a little bit. But then on all that's me
and doing a bad guy from a Jean Pierre Melville movie.
But he he directed a lot of kind of not

(06:00):
so films, but then like towards the end of his career,
he was primarily doing these kind of like weird serial
killer movies. A lot of them were like Lionsgate released
a bunch of them. I don't know if that has
I don't know what that means. I know what it
means a little bit, but maybe to some folks you'll

(06:22):
be like, oh, I can't believe lions Skate released all
these like fucking weird serial killer movies. But he did
movies like The Zodiac Killer and like The Black Dahlia,
The Green River k Yes, And every time I look
one of these up, there's invariably like some dude in

(06:43):
like a black horror movie t shirt on a YouTube
channel being like this movie was fucking trash and like
very intrigued by you know, it's like when you disturb
that crew of those guys. Like when there's like a
fucking maniac in front of a huge shelf of DVDs

(07:06):
with like a black like you know, sort of like
I don't know, like a geollow t shirt on, and
he's like complaining about the movie.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
I'm like, what's this?

Speaker 2 (07:15):
This movie is like must be so interesting. So anyway,
that's that's for y'all if y'all want to get into
the movies of Uli Lumel. But anyway, Olivia was wild. Actually,
it was like it's about this, Like it starts off
with this like little girl whose mother is a sex worker,

(07:38):
and she kind of like watches her mom work and
then like it cuts to like her life and she's
having like like a schizophrenic episodes and it's kind of crazy.
It's a lot of sex, a lot of sex. It
is kind of like there's some weird murders happening. I

(08:02):
don't know. So it was kind of I was like, oh,
a German guy made this. Okay, duly noted, But anyway,
I watched it because a lot of my friends on
letterbox had actually watched it, so I was like, oh,
let me check this out. So yeah, that was all
that was my entire film diary for this week, Olivia.
It's very kind of like di palma ish.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yes, I would say, yeah, absolutely, I can see that.
Very good. Thank you, Millie. I watched a lot of
movies this week for some reason, maybe because I like movies.
I finally watched challengersh I had not seen Challengers from
twenty twenty four with Zendeia and Josh O'Connor and oh,

(08:46):
what's that other act Feist, Yes, Mike Feist. They're all fabulous.
I loved it and I keep thinking about it and
just the politics of this sort of this love triangle,
and I don't know, it's just really interesting and like
just who loves tennis more? And this these three and

(09:09):
who loves the game outside of tennis more. I don't know.
It's just like there's like so much going on. It's
just fabulous and the soundtrack's great. Yeah, everybody loves this movie,
and I see why.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
I'm gonna give you a tip if you're a TikTok user,
if you follow, If you go into the search bar
of TikTok and you search the term men who yearn
are Men who earn, you will find a lot of
clips of Mike Feist from Challengers. I'm just throwing it out.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Fascinating. Men who yearn are men who earn interesting? Interesting, uh,
the kids. Then I watched a movie called Asrael, which
stars Tomorrow Weaving, and there's no dialogue in the entire movie,
and it takes place in the post apocalyptic future where
this like tribe of people have cut out their vocal

(10:03):
cords because they're in a cult. And it was just fine,
just fine, okay, okay. And then I watched something that
was fabulous, This movie from nineteen seventy, directed by the actress,
starring the actress, written by the actress Barbara Lodin. It's
called Wanda. It's her only movie she made. It's awesome.

(10:27):
It's kind of like a Bonnie and Clyde type movie
if Clyde hated Bonnie and Bonnie was kind of out
to lunch. Wanda's about a woman who doesn't want to
be a mom, and she kind of just wanders around
the rust belt Pennsylvania, kind of like coal mining country,

(10:48):
and she's just kind of like out to lunch a
little bit, but she doesn't really have any desires or wants,
and she's kind of like lost and has no place
and teams up up with this guy who's like an
angry bank robber, and she kind of helps him, but
I don't know she's she sort of just wanders through

(11:10):
life aimlessly. And it was very interesting and really good.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
It's really I mean, for those of y'all who don't
know Barbara Loden and don't know Wanda, it is a
very influential film. Like if you go and look it up,
you'll find lots and lots of people who have written
about it and who there's there's usually screenings of it
a lot, I would say, you know, most major movie cities.

(11:36):
I think a big part of why is exactly how
you said it A is that she did it herself,
and she yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Amazing and independs she's an established actress. She was like
on Broadway and stuff and was married to Elia Kazan
famed director. But yeah, she made it for one hundred
thousand dollars and shot on sixteen millimeters, which is like
a lower grade stock of film. But yeah, she like
did it all herself and it's really inspiring.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, and I think that you know, nineteen seventy, like
late sixties, early seventies, I think that at that point,
nobody had really seen a woman sort of being that
dispassionate about being a mom and being.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Like, yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (12:23):
So I think it was kind of like a moment
for women to be like, oh wow, this is like
a different like this is like a woman who like
doesn't want her life and doesn't care much, and it's
just sort of like aimless and not doing the thing
that like we had all been told women do, which
is their you know, happy moms and wives, and they

(12:43):
just sit at home, right.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Can I read you a quote from Barbara Loadon about
the character, because she's a really interesting character. She's almost
like a slacker. Yeah, like like a slacker character, character,
directionless and doesn't really have any desires. So quote, it
was sort of based on my own personality, sort of passive,
wandering around, passing from one person to another, no direction.
I spent many years of my life that way, and

(13:06):
I felt that, well, I think that a lot of
people are that way, and not just women, but men too.
They don't know why they exist, and that is the
character of Wanda. And it's really interesting. It's a really interesting,
gripping movie. It's on HBO, Max you can watch it
on Max or the Criterion Channel, which I chose to

(13:27):
watch it on the Criterion Channel because I'm a film
snob and I wanted it to you know, log, and
I watched it on there.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
So anyway, Barbara Lodon, Barbara Loden is our extremely base goddess.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Bring it out there absolutely. Anyways, that's all I watched.
Let's close up our film diaries. I need to make
a different sound effect for the closing, and so I'll
do that right now. Put that in close.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Clunk, Just put the clunk clunk from Law and Order
in there.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Oh yeah, I'm sure legally that would be totally finn uh.
Actually I know it's not because I work on a
Law in Order podcast and we're not allowed to use that.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Well, then just put little Lisa and Carro going done.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Done, Okay, very good, Dune done. All right. That's our
film diary okay, and we are so back to talk

(14:35):
about our main discussion today, which is bang June Hoe,
the director and his latest movie Mickey seventeen. Millie, do
you have a relationship with bang June Hoe? And if
you do, what is it I do?

Speaker 2 (14:51):
I'm a fan. I'm gonna tell I'm gonna say the
thing that they don't want you to say.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Oh, I'm trying to imagine what that could be. But
what is it? What say it?

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Which is that I had seen his films in the past,
uh huh, liked them.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Then when I watched Parasite, I was like, oh, I
gotta go back, baby, Like, I gotta go back and
revisit some of this stuff. And then I was like, oh, yeah,
now I'm really getting a more comprehensive view of this.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
Well, are you saying that you were like not absolutely
blown away by him before pre Parasite?

Speaker 2 (15:35):
I blown away? That term blown away? Huh No, I
just I like, I love I love him as a director.
I think that he's doing this like really interesting thing,
which is that it feels like, you know, as a
career director, he's he's very He's doing a lot of

(15:59):
stuff with the West, you know, in that way where
like he makes movies with with you know, like very
big American and Western actors, you know, like to Lose
Winton and Jake Jillenhall and that kind of stuff. And
then and then we'll talk also about sort of American issues,

(16:23):
which is also like I always like that about certain
foreign directors when they kind of try to tackle like
American political institutions and American financial and I guess it's
because America influences everybody, like you can't live in the world.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
Without particularly South Korea, I would say, absolutely, but.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
In that way where it's like, you know, I think
there are other Korean directors but also a lot of
Asian directors that primarily kind of just do movies that
are you know, of Asian influence in Asian Asian tradition,

(17:08):
in Asian I don't know, cultural norms or whatever. So
it's interesting. I mean, he like, but Parasite to me.
Parasite to me felt kind of mostly Korean, and I
think it's just because it was pretty much all Korean actors, right.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, but it is. I think it's connective to United
States because it's so much about capitalism, sure, and power structures.
I mean obviously, but it is a very Korean movie,
which is interesting that it became this huge because it's
so Korean. It became such a it became his biggest

(17:53):
movie to date. I would say Bong June Ho. I
first became aware of him in two thousand and six
when the movie The Host came out, which is a
monster movie he made, and people were going ape shit.
I was in film school at the time, and people
were going ape shit about it, and I remember watching
it and being like, I like this, I don't love this.

(18:15):
This movie is a little long. And then after that
I saw I think the next Bong jun Ho movie
I saw was snow Piercer with Chris Evans Untilda Swinton,
and I was like, I don't know about this one either.
And then I saw Oakja and I was like, I
don't know if I like this, so I would say

(18:36):
my opinion of him. It wasn't negative, but I was
just like, I don't love what this guy's doing. And
then much like you, I saw Parasite and I said, Okay,
time to go back. And I watched Memories of a Murder,
which is a fabulous, like true crime murder kind of
mystery movie that felt more like Parasites, a little bit

(18:58):
more grounded, I would say. And then when I watched
his movie that just came out a few weeks ago,
Makee seventeen, and so now and with all those accumulate
the mee seeing all of those movies, I'm back on
board and a big fan of Bong June Hoe, but
my journey, I would say, I wasn't like as obsessed
with him. He wasn't like one of my top tier
directors until Parasite.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
I would say, yeah, And I mean this it's not
to say that. I mean this is basically going back
to what I just said really, which is that sometimes
it is that where you know, directors are primarily working
in their own countries, using actors of those countries, and
sort of it's more kind of set in those countries,

(19:41):
you know, and then as they get more commercially successful,
that's when they start kind of I don't know, widening
the scope a little bit in terms of who they
have in the movies, where the movies take place, the
ideas get bigger and are sort of becoming I guess
a little bit more, were not as centralized in so

(20:04):
they're you know, their immediate sphere of influence, I guess
if you say that, yeah, And that's kind of how
it feels with his filmography too, right, because if you
look at stuff like The Host and Mother and you know,
memories of murder and stuff like that, yeah, you start
kind of moving more towards Oakja and snow Piercer, where
you know, there's a lot of white people in those movies,

(20:26):
and then with Mickey seventeen, I mean that's like this
whole other thing where I was just like, wow, okay,
this is really interesting.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Well, I felt like Snowpiers are in Okja, and I
mean Mickey seventeen is this way a little bit too,
but like Snowpiers are in Oakja, I felt like are
so cartoonishly over the top to the point where I
was like, this is the this is too crazy, This
is too this is too zany for me, and I
like zaniness, but it I feel like Mickey seventeen did

(20:56):
a It is also a zany movie, but I feel
like it reeled it in a little bit more weirdly enough,
as crazy as that movie is, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well, and let's just say this up top. This movie
is out now in theaters, so there's probably a lot
after a couple of weeks. Yeah, probably a lot of
you who haven't seen it yet, So there's probably.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Going to be some spoilers, that's true, but we'll try
not to give away the very end end. But can
I do a quick synopsis of Mickey seventeen for the peeps. Sure,
of course, of course, all right, Well, it's the year
twenty fifty four and Mickey played by Robert Pattinson. He
needs to get off of Earth to escape a mob

(21:38):
boss Loan Shark, that wants to kill him and his
palatimo played by Steven jun The only job Mickey can
get that will get him off the planet and into
space is as an expendable on a ship that's set
to colonize the planet Nifheim. And an expendable basically that

(21:59):
job sists of uploading his memory to a machine so
that they can make clones of him at will, because
he's basically used as a science experiment or to do
dangerous jobs that will kill him. And he dies continuously
and they just kind of keep reprinting him out until
one day he barely survives an encounter with the snuffle

(22:21):
up agus like alien life form of the planet Nifheim,
and another Mickey gets printed out Mickey eighteen. What are
they gonna do? Yeah. All the while, Mickey has a
wonderful girlfriend, Nasha played by Naomi Aki, and has to
do with the political goings on of the leader of

(22:41):
the new colony failed politician turn named Kenneth Marshall played
by Mark Ruffalo, who is like essentially Donald Trump. So
there's a lot of stuff going on in this movie, Millie.
What were you? How is your theater going experience? I
heard it was zany in it of itself.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Zaney zadi is a very nice word for it, I
have to say so, as you have probably heard in
an earlier episode, there's a local multiplex near my house,
very very near my house that I might have an
upgraded membership too. Let's just say that where maybe you know,
I pay by the month, and then you can see,

(23:19):
you know, movies per week, right, yes, exalted elevated status.
You get your own popcorn line, all of these things.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Eat your own popcorn line. Oh yeah, you don't know
about incredible. I didn't know about that anyways, continue.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Now and adds all contingent upon whether or not the
person behind the counter recognizes your status. Of course, that's
a whole other gripe for a whole other time. But
this theater, the gripe that I originally placed with the
podcast was that it's completely it's just anarchy, right, yes,

(23:59):
Like most movie theaters probably run and definitely staffed by
like high school age type kids or maybe a little
bit tiny bit older college maybe, But it's just the set.
It's like the one central theater in the city that
everyone's kind of going to a lot, and it's just
it's absolutely madness. It's like so much shit has happened

(24:23):
at this movie theater where this is the movie theater
that where, you know, I talked about the screening of
Furiosa that I saw that was interrupted by a firecracker,
a lit firecracker that was thrown off the crowd. This
was also the movie theater where my friends and I
were essentially bullied by a gang of high school girls.

(24:49):
Another time, the fire alarm was pulled because people were
smoking cigarettes, actual cigarettes, not vapes, but cigarettes in the
bathrooms of the movie theater, which the doors are very close.
You don't need to smoke the inside the restroom, and
so and like, and this is just my stories, like everybody,

(25:09):
like everybody has a story of the fucking shit that
happens at this theater. And I went to see Mickey seventeen. Uh,
it was a Sunday night, it was a later screening.
I figured probably nobody would be there because Sunday night
I don't know. People don't really kind of stay home
and watch their shows and whatnot, Church, late night Church.

(25:30):
So I go to this movie theater thinking, oh god,
it's gonna be great, and then ten minutes before the
movie ended, the fucking movie goes dark. The lights come on,
and the and the fucking fire alarm goes off.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Jesus Christ and so.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
We all run out of the theater and I'm like,
it happened again. It is happening again, As the giant
in Twin Peaks would say, I swear, dude. I was like,
I can't catch a break.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
So have you seen the last ten minutes of this movie?

Speaker 3 (26:04):
I have not.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Oh fuck, So when you just say this is perfect,
you won't be able to reveal what happened at the
very en.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
That's I was about to butt in. And when you
said that and be like, well, there's no way I
can spoil it because I don't know what happens in
the last.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
Ten minutes, not a problem for me. Oh my god, Millie,
there's something so horrible about a movie theater going experience
being compromised. You know, it's just as terrible. Oh, I'm
so sorry that you had to go through that. No, no, no,
I can after we are done recording, I can go
beat by beat through the last ten minutes.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Okay, I would appreciate that, because I would tell you
the first two hours and ten minutes were great. I
was enjoying it. So I was fucking pissed man. And
I don't even know if there was an actual fire.
Could have been some rogue teenagers again, Could it.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Be a lit firecracker lit but not thrown yet?

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, I mean it's hard. It's hard to say at
this point. But anyway, that's what happened.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, what about you? Hear that?

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Did you?

Speaker 1 (27:07):
I had a great I went and saw it at
an Alamo Draft House in Woodbury, which I have some
thoughts about that because Woodbury is a suburb way outside
of Saint Paul, so I had to drive like thirty
minutes to go there. But you know, I love Alamo
Draft House, I really do, and this one kind of
bums me out a little bit because it's such a
suburban version of the Alamo Draft House. The one in

(27:30):
LA was such a favorite place of mine, and I've
been to the ones in Austin and I've been a
fantastic fest in Austin, So it just doesn't have that
cultural center that a lot of these other Alamo draft
House locations have. It feels like a mall movie theater.
But it was still it was still good and uh,
but I loved I really loved this movie. I think
it is a bit of a mess and it is

(27:52):
a little long, but I kind of I enjoyed the
world so much, and the characters were so fabulous and funny.
I thought this was maybe Robert Pattinson's best performance. I
thought he was really funny and sweet and heartwarming. And
it is a very sweet movie. I think that's something
that I really enjoyed about it. It is romantic at times,

(28:13):
it's horny at times, and it's very funny, and I
just really enjoyed. I mean, I think this could have
been a TV show. I just enjoyed the goings on
on this ship and on this colony, and it was
really funny, and there's like a lot of slapstick kind
of comedy, and it really was all just working for me.
Like I loved it. I was I was all about it.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, you're right that it was. It was romantic and
I kind of my one note, not that anybody gives
a fuck.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
I wonder if he's still accepting notes for this movie.
What you can see about that.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
I'm listening to this podcast being like, what is Mollie
to Jercho? What does she really want from me? Yeah?
I wish that they had more romance. I thought that
was so lovely. They had great chemistry. Love I had
never seen Naomi Aki in anything. I didn't see the
Whitney Houston movie she plays with Whitney Houston and the

(29:09):
Whitney Houston biopic, but she was just so charming and funny,
and I thought she had great rapport with Robert Pattinson,
and I just I loved it. I mean, talk about
a man who yearns is a man who earns. This
is the thing I loved about. So even from the
camera ankles, like, there was a lot of shots of

(29:33):
Robert Pattinson's character Mickey seventeen by the way, seventeen is
much different from eighteen, by the way, very different, which
is a big part of the story at some point. Yes,
but there were shots of him like on his knees,
like looking up at his yeah, beloved, and I was like,
holy crap, I'm like, this is this is really uh

(29:58):
really getting me in to a good headspace. Yeah, I
feel like it's interesting because I really related to Mickey seventeen.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Because I feel like I've had to eat a lot
of shit in my life. But also his character is
really kind of an interesting example of masculinity. You know,
he is not he doesn't want to he's kind of
non confrontational. He doesn't he's not very overly ambitious, but

(30:33):
he's not aggressive. And there's all these agres. You know,
it's in kind of an you know, it's in a future,
a dystopian future where like people need to be All
these men are aggressive, they're all trying to get something
by getting one over on somebody else. And he's just
kind of pure of heart and can't understand how to

(30:54):
operate in that world. And I found him very sweet,
and I feel like I related to him not feeling
I don't feel like I'm on a very aggressive guy,
and I feel like I don't understand kind of hustle culture.
And I feel like Mickey eighteen was like, why aren't
you like pissed off and fighting this person. It's like

(31:16):
Mickey Seventeen's just like I just I'm He's just not
that guy.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
You know, and he's he was a little bit of
a sensitivo. You know, he doesn't he you know, his job,
his duty is to die, right because they can just
print him out, and you know, and by the way,
the printer look exactly like an MRI machine. And if

(31:42):
you're like me who has had a lot of MRI
trauma in my life, it may it may be a
little triggering for it, I'll just throw it out there.
But they print him out after, you know, they basically
are like, hey, we need a vaccine, let's test test you.
And it's fine because you'll just die. We'll pretty back out,
no problem.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yes, but his.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Sensitivity, he's like, I actually don't like dying. It sucks
to die. And yeah, I'm a little bit like sensitive
to the fact that you guys are just being super
cavalier about me just fucking dying all the time.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah, And I thought the runner in the it's a
runner in the movie where everyone's like, what's it like
to die? And he's just kind of like like he
never really answers the question. Yeah, but he's just like,
I hate it. It sucks.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, He's like, you know, you think it's like kind
of cool and unique, but I don't know, I'm a
little bit of a tender baby about it, which I loved.
And it was a total simper as woman, which I loved,
you know, because she was very you know, she was
like a soldier, she was very powerful. She was you know,
won a bunch of awards on the on the ship
or whatever.

Speaker 5 (32:52):
You know.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
She was like a very assertive, confident woman. And he
just was like, I love her. And there are times
where you know his character is getting maybe potentially wooed
by another character, and he's just like, I am true
to my woman, which I was like, this is so sweet.
How come these can't be the entire movie? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Can I say something about Robert Pattinson real quick?

Speaker 2 (33:19):
You clearly?

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yes? I so. I'm a big fan of his. Yes,
And I think you are too.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Me too.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
I like him and I like what he does. But
I will say I was like, in some of his movies,
I'm like, here you are again, Robert Pattinson doing your
funny little voice. You didn't like his voice at first,
I was like, are you doing your funny little voice again?
But for this movie, I loved it. I thought it worked.

(33:49):
I liked his voice a lot, and I was because I,
you know, sometimes I get a little bit like Robert
Pattinson's like the hottest man on the planet, you know,
and it's like you're playing he's playing like this goofy dork,
he kind of guy, you know, and so it's there
has to be a little bit of an unbelievable leap
for audiences, you know. But his little voice and his
little I don't know tics were so cute that I

(34:13):
was like, I liked it. Oh good, you liked.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
His little nineteen thirties dead end kid voice or whatever.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, exactly, yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
It was like a little, uh, scrappy chimney sweep guy
from like a nineteen thirties movie. I thought it was adorable.
I gotta be.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Honest, I did too. And I also thought, just as
a physic, this is a very physical role, his physical
comedy in this was outstanding and I didn't, I truly
did not know that he contained that skill, and it
was it was very impressive to me. I was totally
one over by not one over. I already liked him,
but I was just I just was so I was
just so charmed by him in this movie.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yeah, I really like him too. I said this in
an earlier episode. I think that's when we were talking
about Twilight, about how you were like a secret midnight.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yes, but in every I've seen every installment of Twilight
at the midnight showing on the first day of it's
released in theater.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Well, when you told me that, I was kind of like, man,
I should have done that.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
Shit.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Well what did I do? I just sat on my
couch and watched them high which.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
I feel like, I mean, that seems like another very
nice way of viewing the Twilight films.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yes, I mean it was fun as hell, But honestly,
I was like, if I had if I had a crack,
if I was like a Mickey seventeen and knew that
I could just kind of like do things and get
to live again, I'd probably go Opening Night at midnight. Sure,
but I said this, I am weirdly happy that him

(35:44):
and Kristin Stewart, the stars of Twilight, have kind of
gone on and done kind of interesting movies. And absolutely
there's people I know actually who are huge dorky cinophiles
like we are, but that they're very iron it. They're like,
oh yeah, these two, like you know, teeny Bopper stars.
Oh yeah, cool, they're in like, you know, French movies

(36:08):
now and shit, and I'm like, come on, like, life
is so stupid at this point that if we have
a tiny win like that, I'm fine with it totally.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Like, well, I was thinking of I actually was thinking
of Kristin Stewart while I was watching Mickey seventeen because
Christen Stewart is in a movie called Crimes of the Future, Yeah,
a David Cronenberg movie, and she plays kind of a
kind of a weirdo, little ticky kind of character like
Robert Pattinson played in this movie. I was like, it's
so funny. They're kind of playing these like sort of

(36:40):
similar characters in these weird dystopian future movies, and I'm
delighted by it.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Speaking of Steven Yun, she was in that movie that
came out, was it like not too long ago? About
is it called Love Me? Where they're like they play
it's kind of a weird, like a romantic sci fi
type of thing.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Oh, I missed this movie entirely.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
What oh casey, it looks kind of up your alley.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
I know.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
The it's like a thing where they play like, uh,
bodyless beings that that end up uh, sort of inhabiting
human Yes, so they're basically inanimate objects that become human
and they have a relationship. And it's like it's it's

(37:32):
kind of like a I haven't seen it, so I'm
just throwing I'm just seeing I'm telling you what's on
the trailer where they're kind of like, I don't know,
replicating the lives of like online people or something like
it's like data data life where they're just kind of like, oh,
I'm being programmed like what a human being would do
in the modern era.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Fascinating.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
So and I was like, oh, man, I want to
see that. I haven't seen it yet, but it kind
of look when I watched Makey seventeen, I was kind
of thinking, oh, yeah, this is kind of maybe, I
don't know, maybe a timy little bit of a camp
but who knows.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, absolutely, But I like.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
I like Robert Pattinson. I actually hear this isn't my
story to tell, but I'm gonna tell you anyway. I
have a friend in LA that was at a party
once with Robert Pattinson. Was there like maybe a couple
of years ago. I think he was dating a famous
musician perhaps, and she was like he was so humble

(38:30):
and self effacing that it was kind of alarmed, alarming
for her because she was just like, oh, I was
just expecting me to be this, like, you know, really famous,
like Hollywood guy. And he was like basically going like, yeah,
I'm just like a huge piece of shit like everybody else.
And I can't believe this, like hot woman wants to
date me and I'm just like a total whatever, normal guy.

(38:51):
And she was just like, man, it was kind of amazing.
And every time I heard every time I think about him,
I think of that story, and I'm like, and again,
I don't know, maybe this is just a one and
done deal. I don't know how he is. I don't
know him, but I was like really really taken with
that story.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
So well, I feel like he he he actually seems
like a normal guy. I mean, we don't know him
so that he couldn't be a horrible weirdo, but he uh,
he seems like a normal guy. But without doing that
like movie star thing of being like I'm just a
normal person. I feel like Johnny Depp was always lying
I'm a bit of a I'm just a bit of

(39:27):
a weirdo that I'm just kind of a normal guy,
like he would kind of do that sort of thing.
And but I feel like Robert Pattinson is sincere. Yeah,
I believe him for some reason.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
He's based, as I like to say, he seems based.
I guess, yes. But he was really great, great in
this movie. I loved his accent, I liked his physicality,
I liked, you know, everything the I to go back
to your earlier point about it being kind of there's
a lot going on, Yes, I felt that too, and

(40:00):
that's why I think I was kind of like, Okay,
maybe we can just distill this into like the framework
of it being a love story, amping up the love story,
and then taking out a couple couple of things. Perhaps
I don't know. Again my stupid notes like no one
gives a shit. But yeah, the thing I wanted to
talk to you most about about Mickey seventeen is the

(40:20):
whole Trump commentary, the Mark Ruffalo and Tony Collette characters, which,
by the way, Tony Collette is in the movie. She's
one of my favorite actresses ever to and they play
essentially like the president of this new like it was
like a failed presidency on Earth that gets.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Taken to this new colony.

Speaker 5 (40:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah, and they're kind of like megalomaniac psychos.

Speaker 5 (40:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
And Mark Ruffalo has these insane veneers.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Much like till This. It's the same teeth as Till
the Swinton and snow Piercer.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah. And also she had weird teeth at Oakja too, right.
Did she have braces or something in that movie?

Speaker 1 (41:05):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Anyway, maybe that's a thing about bum jn know, he's
like a weird teeth guy.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yeah, maybe, or maybe he's like, you don't look American enough,
you need to have bigger, faker teeth.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Anyways, that his Hitchcock Blondes continuum as the big ass teeth.
But anyway, because again, I mean, this is just an
interesting thing for me to see a foreign director making
commentary about this American loser, right, which is like again

(41:41):
the like you said, the whole the world is influenced
by this loser unfortunately, Yeah, but just in the ways
in which like, and you can just also tell too
that Mark Ruffalo had such a meal playing this character.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah, like it was really chewing it up. I think
this was the weakest part of the movie for me.
I felt like, I actually think what they were saying
was right on, because there's like this race of aliens
that are so cute that are in danger, and I

(42:18):
was really worried about them. And it did make me
think about just natural resources and the way we take
care of people in this country. And it was getting
my blood boiling while watching the movie. But Mark Ruffalo's
portrayal of this character, it is basically a bad Trump
impression and he kind of looks like Trump, and I

(42:40):
was just like, it just felt cheap a little bit,
and I wish it would it had been a little different.
I guess I was just kind of like, Okay, I mean,
we've seen so many portrayals of Trump that I was
just kind of like, I don't need this, Let's just
do something a little bit different. But maybe he needed
to be kind of Trump liked to get the point across.

(43:01):
I don't know, it just I didn't love that aspect
of it. And there were times where I was like,
he looks like my man, Walton Goggins. They just get
Walton Goggins in here. But yeah, so I yeah, that
part I didn't love. It was a little distracting, I guess.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Well, and like Okay, if your assessment about the theme
or one of the themes being about masculinity, ultimately, yeah,
that had to happen in a weird way, like you
had to have this big swing buffoon type of character

(43:40):
to remind us all that those types of men suck
and that we're much more at peace with like a
Mickey seventeen. Right, yeah, let's talk a little bit about
Mickey eighteen. And I know people again sorry were spoiling
it a little bit, but you know, he gets printed

(44:01):
out before seventeen dies. So there's two and it's a
problem because what are they called multiples?

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, they're in this world. You're not allowed to have multiples,
and actually cloning is illegal on Earth, but you can
do it in space. So that's like this whole thing.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
And the issue becomes the issue is that you can't
have two the same dude. But anyway, it creates his
panic where people are like, we got to kill the
multiples and also destroy the original box that houses the
personality so that every iteration of him is gone. Essentially,

(44:37):
he sees us to exist and each iteration of him
is a little bit different, right, yes, and personality wise,
and then this new the new one is definitely more
keyed up, definitely way more aggressive, feels a little bit
more like like you said, oh my god, like why
aren't you fucking going.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
And beating the shit out of that guy?

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Mangioning this guy like what the hell? Like he's awful,
and like what's your problem? Why are you being such
a pussy or whatever? You know, And that is like
another interesting component I think to the masculinity conversation, because
it is that feeling of technically a good guy right
wants the bad guy to die, but comes across it

(45:22):
in just like such an aggressive way that you're kind
of like, well, ultimately, okay, you're a good guy, but
you're just you know, like you act like the bad guy.
You have the aggression of the aggressor.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah, but I think historically this is like the kind
of guy we want to be the hero. He is virtuous,
and he his heart, you know, he's trying to protect people,
and but he's like, well, do what it takes to
like seek justice, you know. And it's sort of like

(45:55):
a sort of the prototype of like what we think
of like heroes in a way. Yeah, but like Mickey
seventeen is just like such a sensitivo guy, you know,
and would never be, would never act the way that
Mickey eighteen acts, right, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Well, and that's I think kind of again to the
idea that this is a movie about masculinity. It just
makes that conversation a little bit more complex and nuanced,
if you will, absolutely, which I actually thought was kind
of cool.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Uh fabulous. Well, that is our conversation about Bunng Juno,
Mickey seventeen, Robert Pattinson moving on. All right, everybody, we
are back for another segment of my area of expertise,

(46:48):
and we have a true expert, a film expert, on
the show today. He was a previous guest on I
Saw What You Did and a fan favorite, so we
needed to bring him back. You can hear him on
his new podcast, Here Come the Details. You've seen him
on Better Call Saul. He's in Twin Peaks, The Return
Reservation Dogs, He's in so many great things. Josh Fatum, Josh, Hi,

(47:09):
welcome back. Welcome, well, not welcome, welcome to our new show.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
Welcome to Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm very excited
to be here.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Absolutely, and so your your film area of expertise that
you brought to us. I'd actually never seen any of
his movies before. Qua Chi Hung the filmmaker Quai Chi Hung,
Why did you pick? Why do you want to talk
about this this dude?

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Well a couple of reasons. Because the email where you're like, okay,
you want to do our new podcast was like, you know,
pick an area of expertise, and I was like, well, yes,
you know, I mean we talked about noir on the
last one, and and I and I and I feel like,
notably for myself, I went down the deep film noir
rabbit hole and I got just like obsessed. And that's
kind of how it works for me. I'll go get

(47:55):
obsessed and then I'll be like, all right, I've kind
of run this front of its course. I still love
noir film, but I've kind of seen all the major ones,
you know what I mean, there's still like one or
two that and I you know, you know in America,
so you know, honestly trying to think of, like, well,
what's something that they probably haven't talked about. And I
know that like a lot of people have seen Boxers

(48:15):
omen and a lot of people that it had its
moment where it was like, God, look at this movie.
We found like maybe eighteen years ago, you know, yeah,
and everyone's like boxers Omen, boxers Omen, but I feel
like it got a little overshadowed by you know, how Sue,
which also got kind of pointed out around then, and
everyone's like, well, how SU's the one. But in my mind,
I was like, I kind of like boxers Omen, and

(48:37):
I one time went down a rabbit hole of I
was like, well, what did the guy who made boxers
Omen make? And he made a lot of films that
are he's a real like cinematic clownster, you know.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
I think it said he made over like forty movies
and he retired when he was like sixty one.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
I think he died when he was sixty one, but
it looks like.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
He died me when he was sixty one.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Yeah, he died in nineteen ninety nine, and it looks
like he's The last movie he made was box Someone
was his penultimate one, and I couldn't There's a lot
of that you can't find too. But so anyway, I
just thought this guy's interesting. Not enough people are talking
about this guy, you know, not everything he makes his

(49:17):
is as good as boxer z Omen, But there there's
a lot of stuff, and some of it's was like
I started a couple ones, like the few I could
find on Amazon, and like there was one I believe
was called Killer Constable, and then there was another one
that starred Bruce Laid, the double from Game of Death,
who's not Bruce Lee or he won of the Doubles,

(49:38):
you know, and and that one was kind of slow,
you know, they have things about him, and same like
Killer Constable was, you know, kind of slow. But there
were I went. I tried to review some of his
movies years ago, Like he has this series called Hex,
and the for Hex is really good. Hex is like
a weird supernatural remake of dab a Leak. And then

(50:02):
there's a sequel called Hex after Hex, which I can't
remember if I've seen. And then there's one called like
the third one which sounds crazy called Hex Versus Afterlife
or something like that, but those are a little harder
to find. And then I started, sorry, I'll stop talking.
I no, no, no, well, I was gonna say. There's
also this one that that I liked called corpse Mania,

(50:26):
which was kind of like a like a Hong Kong giallo, and.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
It sounds beautiful and Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
It's got some cool, cool gore to it and just
go just stylish. And then there was one that I
started but I didn't have time to finish it before
this podcast that I was really liking called Bewitched, and
I found that on archive dot org that you could
find that on archive dot So I'd like to finish Bewitched,

(50:55):
but that was that was felt right in line. And
then I watched this one called The Killer Snakes, which
is advertised as learning contains extremely sick and disturbing scenes
not suitable for most people.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
That's not us, obviously, that we're not most people.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
Yeah, we're suitable for us.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Well, I wanted to ask, so, you know this director
was involved with the Shaw brothers, right, it was making
movies with the Shaw brothers. So I'm curious because I
got to be honest, I feel like he as a director,
I feel like he's pretty obscure, I mean honestly, like
when it even like to like cult movie heads and

(51:35):
Asian cinema folks. So I was wondering if you had
any thoughts so as to like, maybe why he seems
to be like not as well remembered as some of
the other Shaw brothers folks.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yeah, I mean, and really, do you just want to
say what real quick? Would the Shaw brothers who they
are and where they're from.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Yeah, they were a production company in Hong Kong and
made They were around for almost what one hundred years
or so, like yeah, and they're probably the most famous
Chinese studio, wouldn't you say?

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Like yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (52:11):
But yeah, I mean they're they're legendary and had so many,
so many arms and so many films that came out
of that organization, so you know, kind of in that
American way where they were kind of bringing new directors
into the fold a bunch, and so yeah, I was
just gonna, you know, ask about how like I just

(52:33):
wonder why his movies but because they're so insane, So
I'm like, I just wonder why, you know, like for example,
not more of them are on you know, physical media
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
That's why I wanted to talk about him because there's
a lot of these these questions I don't personally know
the answer. I was almost kind of hoping that you
might know, you know, more than me, but like just
basically my digging around, you know, online to try to
get some information about him was like he was he
would get real obsessed and stressed out about his films.

(53:05):
I think I saw a quote just from his son
or something said in an interview. Maybe you saw this too,
where you get real stressed out about making his films
and then he'd think that, ah, that was no good,
and then he'd get excited to make another one, and
then he'd again, but that was no good or whatever.
But if you look at like, he seems to be
the guy amongst the Shaw Brothers directors. And I'm I

(53:26):
have a general like, I know the basics with the
Shaw Brothers films, there's always more, you know, with that,
But he seems to be the guy as far as
the ones I've seen that's not afraid to just get
nasty and get weird, but also get inventive. It's very inventive,
very yes, also not afraid to just be like, this
is the best we can do, so let's go ten thousand,

(53:49):
you know, let's let's turn it up as high as
we can go, Like, Okay, we don't have these type
of special effects or we don't have you know, it's
not we have a sloppy story. Yeah I don't know,
you know.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yeah, yeah, well I just watched The Boxer's Omen from
nineteen eighty three, which is probably his most famous movie
in the United States anymore. Yeah, and like you know,
they're doing a they're doing effects in that where it's like, Okay,
we need to like have a giant crocodile and cut
him open. It's like, well, we don't have that. Well,

(54:25):
I think we'll make like a paper mache one essentially,
but we do have, you know, guts and intestines we
can put inside of that paper mache alligator, and so
we'll cut it open and pull all these guts out.
And it's like, oh my god, this is like it's
visually striking and horrifying but also inventive, like you know,
it's not real, but it still gets the job done.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
I think it's I think it's cute. I don't know
why cute fighters in The Boxers Omen in the fucking
like little yeah, just like the little creatures that come
out and just like do weird shit a bat. The
bat is so cute to me, even though it's supposed
to be scary and gross. I think it's cute.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
I think some of it's supposed to be funny. I
don't know the guy who's like the the guy who's
like the demon. I couldn't even Actually, while when I
watched it, I'm like, I can explain this plot, but afterwards,
I'm like, I'm not sure I can explain this plot.
There's a boxer. Well, first of all, there's a boxer
and his brother gets beaten up real bad by Bolo Yung,

(55:29):
who is kind of like the martial arts m m
at Walsh. You know, if you know the Roger Ebert quote,
you know where no movie can be completely bad if
mm at Walsh appears in it. I feel that way
about Bolo Yung. With martial arts films, if it's got
Bolo Yung, you know, you can't go wrong. But anyway,
so Bolo Yung beats the shit out of someone and

(55:49):
and he's pretty good in it. It's like he plays
a great bad guy, but he beats the ship out
of guy. And then that's this guy's brother, I guess
is like he's uh, he's like I got trying to
beat him too or the then I lose my ability
to be articulated.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Yeah, So the brother of the guy who got really
beat up has to seek revenge by fighting the guy
who beat up his brother, but on the way to
seeking revenge, he's visited by like a deity or a
Buddhist monk who's like, we were twins in a past
life and you need to you need to defeat a
separate demon that's bothering that killed me, the twin from

(56:29):
a past life. So then this boxer gangster guy has
to become a monk, which is very hard because he
loves to have sex. He loves sex, and he has
to give it up. And I mean, yeah, like you said,
I think it is supposed to be funny because there
are these scenes where it's like, okay, you're ready to
become a monk. That means you can't drink alcohol. And
then he like, he's like, have you drank alcohol? And

(56:51):
he like looks to his right and if a candle
goes out, it means he lied. So it's like, have
you drank alcohol? He looks to us right, the candle remains,
and then it's like, have you had sex? Uh no,
looks just right, candle goes out because he has had sex.
But so I think it is supposed to be funny.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
Yeah, So the guy, the little guy who's controlling the bats,
he's like that scene where he's like, go get him,
go get him, go get him in the.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Bats like you know, you know what I mean, It's
like clearly someone's pulling a string off screen to pull
this little bat. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
I think there's no way the movie doesn't know that.
That's funny, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
I mean it's funny that you mentioned how Sue because
you're right in that this did seem to kind of
have the same.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Resurgence.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, but it's like I think people and
this is I truly believe this. I think people really
loved how Sue because of that cat. I think the
cat was the one that grabbed people, the cat that
spits blood. If you've ever seen How Sue a house,
which you you know, yeah, it's it's been shown so
many times here. It was on uh Criterion and everything, uh,

(57:58):
and everybody I knew was yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
How Soon is a nineteen seventy seven Japanese horror film
where a bunch of teenage girls go to a house
to visit a friend I guess, and the house kills
them in very silly and crazy like the movie.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
You're gonna want to get stone before you watch it. Yeah,
you're gonna want to take a few.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Yeah, it's really crazy and you know, visually just like
chaotic in the same way that The Boxers Omen is too.
And so but for my money, I feel like this
there was more cute, weird shit happening in the in
boxers Omen beat He's per minute than House Like I
really and I feel like maybe we should have, you know,

(58:41):
split the difference a little bit in terms of our
fascination with these two movies.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
Yeah, I think so too. I think that the revival
House World really gave it all to House who back
in back in the day, and Boxer's Omen kind of
got swept under the rug, and I feel so did
the other films. I'm always looking and for like, well,
what's everyone not talking about, you know? And I remember
when I worked at Cinophile, you know, we I was

(59:07):
like everyone was all about how Sue and a. Well,
I'm gonna look and see what this Boxer z Omen
guy also made, and so we had a lot of
his films, and so I was able to watch a bunch.
There was another one I watched called The Delinquents, which
is like kind of just a crime young crime movie,
crime crime, kids in the street type movie Sat in
Hong Kong was in the early seventies, and I remember
liking that one, you know as well. But yeah, I

(59:31):
also just find if you think about like, you know,
I just find a movie like Boxersoman very inspiring because
the way that they're just making they're just pulling everything,
you know. And totally my girlfriend's a little smarter than me.
I watched it with her. She was like, oh, there's
a lot of Buddhism in this film. And I was like, oh,
I'm going to say that when I talk about this,

(59:51):
but I couldn't quite And then there was that when
he went to one of the other countries, I forget
which one, but she was taking this Buddhism man Hinduism
kind of meshed together.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Oh that went over my head. I didn't quite well, that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Was what she was saying about. If it wasn't Nepoala,
it was one of the other countries he went to,
and she was saying, ah, this is She was like,
this is kind of Hindu. She was stone when she
was watching it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
But she was on another level.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Yeah, she was. She was experienced on another level.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
I guess the question I have since you've seen a
few of his other movies, is there as much? I
think the thing My one critique of this movie is
there is a lot of munching on like rotted meat
and guts by men and then spitting it out, like
men chewing it, spitting it out into other vessels. And
I was eating a turkey sandwich when I was watching

(01:00:39):
this movie, and I did have to stop because it
was so gross. Yeah, is there an element of that
in any of his other movies?

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
This guy loves gross. I loves gross, and but and
it's sort of like what I'm trying to articulate is
like he's not afraid to go gross from any angle
he can find it, you know, whether it's slimy, sloppy,
whether it's like super sexual, whether it's eat and puke,
like a character actually puking. There was that it wasn't.

(01:01:11):
There's a scene where like an eel or something comes
out of his mouth.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Oh man, that was so that made me gag. There's
like an eel coming out of his mouth. There's the
actor must have actually had it in his mouth for
a part of it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Yeah, I mean I was trying to figure that out too,
because you can see the clever editing where they cut
to the mouth and then it's a real eel, right,
but the face is paper mache looking. And then they
cut to a face and the eel looks fake, you know,
and like weird an elastic. But then they cut to
that wide and it looks like that eel hoyel is

(01:01:47):
coming out of his mouth. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Yeah, I don't know, I.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Have Okay, so I have a general question I think
for both of you. I'm just curious what you think
about this, because I was talking about this at work
and I I'm a programmer, a film programmer, and I
work at a television network that I'm working on a
basically what's a they call it grindhouse channel. It's like
a channel that plays a lot of like that's kind

(01:02:14):
of seventies and eighties like grindhouse type of stuff, right,
And I was talking to my boss about this because
we play a lot of martial arts films, like old
school martial arts films, a lot of the like fake
Bruce Lee movies, by the way, which is really great.
But we were talking about this. We were like, we felt
we kind of feel like there isn't as much appreciation

(01:02:38):
for these types of movies as much as there was
maybe when we were kind of growing up in film culture, right,
do you think that do you think that the kids
perhaps have forgotten the magic of things like these movies
or just basically any of these kind of like old
school martial arts films. I mean they are even really

(01:02:59):
still making films like this anymore, like at least where
we could see them in America. Like, what do you
guys think about.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
All those I have an opinion, Let's hear. Yeah, I
think that when I was a kid, I mean, I'm
forty four, we might be around the same age all
of us. I you know, in the late eighties, early nineties,
you know, we had Sigal Van Dam, you know, all
the guys, Dolph Lugren, Bolo Yung, you know, Cynthia Rothrock

(01:03:28):
and they and all these HBO movies were marketed. And
then that was one way in. And then there was
stuff like Wu Tang Clan and the Beastie Boys and
Quentin Tarantino and all that that popped up in the
nighties and they're like, here, these are the real martial
arts things, and Bruce Lee and all that stuff, and
Jackie Channon and and then if you got real into
it you started digging deeper into the stuff that you're

(01:03:49):
talking about, the grindhouse stuff, the Shaw Brothers stuff, you know,
and I just wonder if kids even have a way
in you know, today to that sort of thing, and like,
like I mentioned the hip hop stuff, and even like
the Beastie Boys. I feel like, I don't know why
I'm linking the Beastie Boys in their seventies kind of
exploitation esthetic in the nineties like sabotage and sabotage, and

(01:04:12):
I feel like there might have been some sampling as well,
or just that kind of funky music sampling that I
kind of put it all together with that Kung fu stuff,
and so that was my way into that being you know,
but also that the stuff that you're talking about has
a lot of cool stuff. I don't know if the kids,
if there's a market for it, or if the kids
are finding it or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Yeah go ahead, Casey, gohead.

Speaker 1 (01:04:37):
Well, I was just gonna say, I find that that's
really interesting that you say like you was kind of
stumbled upon that stuff Josh on TV, because I do
think that nowadays there's a lot less random sort of
stumbling onto things that are not curated specifically for you
as like a young person, so like you won't just

(01:04:58):
be like flipping through the cable channels are like not
meant for you and finding something totally off that you
was not geared for you at all, but now you're
watching it, you know. And so I think there's one
that's one aspect, but also with like old school kung
fu movies and movies like The Boxers Owmen, where it's
like this sort of creative, funny and slapped together types

(01:05:20):
of movies, like doing whatever you can to make these movies.
They feel a little like sloppy but in a good
way and kind of not totally polished. And I feel
like nowadays, young people, I sound so old saying this,
but I feel like there's less patients for movies that
look sloppy in a way, like it needs to be

(01:05:41):
more of like a finished product or it's like this
is stupid and bad, you know, like, whereas I feel
like maybe we had more patience or like we're gravitated
towards something that wasn't a totally polished, totally finished product
but still like could still appreciate it as a like
a movie. Whereas I don't know if people now do

(01:06:03):
as much. So that's sort of like my two thoughts
on it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
I find sloppy inspiring in a week two and especially
if it's I don't mean to cut you off, Millie,
but like, you know, like when I think about like
Lucio Fulci and stuff like that, if you're getting into
those movies, he's like, if he were to take like,
you know, on set, if you're at some of those
edits and shots and stuff, if they were to take
a few more hours to like get those zooms and

(01:06:28):
everything in the and hitting those marks a little tighter, well,
it would just look amazing. But at the same time,
that would really kind of ruin the movie, you know,
you know, and you're just like boom bop zoom, step
on that mark, splash the guts, you know, cut the throat,
spray the thing, and it's just we got to go okay,
moving on. It is just the feel I get from it,

(01:06:49):
and that's also kind of exhilarating, you know, in a weird.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Totally Yeah, it feels alive.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Yeah, we're a live here.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
And for those who don't know, Luccio Fulci was an
Italian director who worked in the seventy eighties, known for
his giallo and horror movies, which were frequently messy and violent,
and they sort of seemed sort of sloppy kind of.
I guess all giallo movies sort of feel that way,
but his especially feel that way.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
Yeah, I think, I think, Josh, we're really close to
the same age, and so I'm totally with you on
the idea that you know, when we were growing, I mean,
first of all, I remember in the being a kid
in the eighties, and like martial arts was such a
huge thing. Like all the kids on my street were
in karate and like you know, and also like pro wrestling,

(01:07:37):
which is kind of like an extension of that, and
like you know, every everybody was into like Ninja's and
you know, like and and because of that, there seemed
to me to be this kind of proliferation of these
like huge martial arts stars, you know, like like you said,
like not just Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan, but like

(01:07:57):
Jet Lee, and you know, I mean even people like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
You know, like man, I know, people get real into
Donnie Yen. I was kind of already out of it
when when he came up.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
Sorry, yeah, yeah, no, but like even guys like I mean,
you still kind of have a little bit of like
that in like I don't know, maybe like a Jason
Statham or you know, I mean, and the Steven Stagall
movies and the Van Damn movies and stuff. I'm just
I'm wondering if there is an opportunity for that to
come back, And like part of me wonders if it's

(01:08:30):
like again, maybe there's not like a taste for it
as much as it was when we were kids. Like
I don't know, maybe people just don't like them violence
as much as we liked it back then. But I'm like,
are we going to ever have another Jackie.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
Chan or you know, I mean, I have a thought
that like it also might be the star power, you know,
like because I watched Game of Death actually for the
first time. I just like kind of slept on it
for years because you know, friends who watched it was bad,
you know, when I was a kid and so just
a bother and they know it's like I better watch it.
So I wasn't quite totally sure what it was. And

(01:09:05):
when you're with this double the whole time, he's good
and then fights are good, and that motor there's a
motorcycle fight or whatever. That's really cool. But when Bruce Lee,
real Bruce Lee shows up, you do get a sense
that this is a star. You know, he is a
movie star. He's a trained actor and a trained movie star,
and he really knows how to be an American movie

(01:09:26):
star and an international star. And so there was something
like the star part is key. So I wonder if
there were someone I mean, you know, the john Wick
movies are huge, and that's kind of like Kung Fu
with guns, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Yeah, yeah, well then yeah, there is I think an
appetite for that type of stuff somewhere, and I mean,
I fucking love the john Wick movies obviously, so you know,
I'm just but yeah, this when I was, you know,
thinking about you coming on and talking about these films
and rewatching the Boxers omen it just really kind of
put me back into a place of when I was

(01:10:01):
like kind of budding, you know, movie freak or whatever.
Like I was like watching stuff like this was like
the thing that I like wanted I want because it
felt like, I think to your earlier point about uh,
when you were working at Cinophile Video, which, by the way,
for those people who don't live in La and don't

(01:10:24):
know Cinophile Video. It's a very legendary video store. And
you worked there, right, I.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
Worked there for ten years.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
That's right. And it felt like almost everybody that had
worked there were they they were all stars to me.
Were you to cast you up? Yeah I was. I
was in LA a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
I worked there from three to twenty thirteen. So yeah, yeah,
yeah you came in around then. Yeah, probably.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
Well, but it's also like, I don't know, to me,
there was always that whole I don't know, there's a
dare I say there's a mythology around the La Video store?
Folks like there's They just seemed to be a little
bit like more KEYTD and a little bit cooler than
a lot of others. But I but yeah, in that
way where I was seeking out weird stuff on purpose

(01:11:12):
and being like, oh I got to watch you know, yeah,
all these like really crazy martial arts films like the
Story of Ricky. I remember that was really a huge
thing when I was coming up, And so yeah, I
mean this is but I think that to your for
you coming on and talking about this director and trying

(01:11:33):
to get people back on board, right, it's important.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
It's like the director. This is a real strong voice.
And you look at his other movies and the voice
is pretty consistent, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
Yeah, and that's what.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
I think is most what I most wanted to come
on here and say, like Kwai Chi hung is he's
got something to say. He had something to say, and
he had something to do.

Speaker 6 (01:11:56):
And I and uh, it's got something to do with
sex and sloppiness and duking and you know, uh phallic.

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
And vaginal and animals. He uses a lot of animals too,
like the snakes and even in uh Bewitched, there's a
lot of animals and bugs. You know. So they don't
do it like that anymore, not necessarily saying they should,
but this happened.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
You know, Well, thank you so much Josh for being
on the show. Where and I know you you you
there's a movie night in Tulsa.

Speaker 3 (01:12:34):
Yeah time. I mean, I got all kinds of stuff
here that are all different. I got that. I got
a shelf across the room that like it's all noir.
I got lots to talk about. So and I love this.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Like direct cinema. Look at your the room that you're
in with your stacks of DVDs.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
This is awesome. If you if you ever have someone
fall through last second reach out to Josh.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
From Josh and the Life Saver. Yeah, absolutely, But what
do you what do you got going on? Josh? What
do you what do you want people to tell?

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
If you're in Tulsa. I run anwar knight called ar
Knights with Josh Fatum and that's become a very popular
screening night at the Circle Cinema. And then I also
started a podcast show called Here Come the Details, and
you know, you can find it on YouTube, Spotify, Apple,
all the places that people watch or listen, and so,

(01:13:26):
I don't know, that's kind of been you know, I've
got some acting things coming up here and there, but
that's been kind of the The thing I've been most
focused on is this podcast show, you know, doing that
kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
It's a great show.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
We also have a movie part of the podcast called
The Tape Pile, which is it's like all these different
things where I do characters and so it's me and
my friend Randy. There's a great band called chat Pile.
You should have my friend Ray on the show because
he's a real movie guy, and so we play these
characters who we just talk about VHS tapes, but we're like,

(01:13:59):
you know, watch dudes in a storage unit and we're
saying this movie is like, this movie is so good,
you know, and but we're with the we're with tapes,
but they're usually art house films, you know. So that's
there's the joke. This was directed by Maurice Pilot.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
Oh my god. Yes, definitely check that out. It's a
great show. Josh. You're wonderful. We love having you on.
We'll definitely fun. I wish we could talk all day.
Check out Josh's stuff and thank you so much, Josh.

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Thanks Josh.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
Okay, we are nearing the end of our show, Millie again,
it's ending. I can't believe it. Uh. And we have
a voicemail in our film advice column. If anybody wants
film advice, please write in. But we've got a voicemail
for you. Let's listen to this.

Speaker 5 (01:15:01):
I'm Millian Casey. My name is Casey too. I'm wondering
what would you pair your favorite movie with in terms
of a meal to create an overall sense of ambiance
and environment. For example, one Valentine's Day, my husband and

(01:15:24):
I watched The Godfather and had spaghetti and meatballs. What
comes to mind for you for a perfect pairing of
film and food? Thank you, love the show.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Thank you so much, Casey. You know I'm going to
answer a question from another Casey. Well, this just reminds
me of something. I'm bringing up my mother again. One
time we had a Napoleon Dynamite party and my mom
made steak and tater tots with served with a glass
of milk, and we watched Napoleon Dynamite.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
Very huge.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
That was That was a great pairing that, you know,
that was a created a sort of ambiance for that.
I was also thinking about I could have I could
watch one of my favorite movies, Blue Velvet, and have
a Heineken or PEPs blue ribbon, and I could serve

(01:16:15):
that with I don't know, an ear shaped cake or something.
I don't know. Did you do anything come to your
mind for you for this, Millie, Yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Mean so many things, right, It's the best thing, Like
when I uh, I've talked about this before. I have
a group of individuals that I'm friends with here in
Atlanta that we've had this erotic thriller movie club for
like a long time. I want to say it's probably
going on seven eight years at this point. Wow, early

(01:16:48):
adopters to the revival. I'm just throwing it out there again.
We we usually do a table what we call a
table scape, which is we have to create a t
that is representative of the movie we're watching. So there's
all kinds of like food tie ins, you know. Like,
I gotta tell you one of my proudest moments as

(01:17:11):
a person who's who bakes occasionally. I'm not gonna call
myself like a baker. I'm just saying I like to
make food sometimes. I made a Boxing Helena cake.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Oh no, there's pictures of it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
I that was one of my most fun things that
I ever made. And I literally made it like I
made a topper like a wedding, like a wedding topper. Actually,
you know what's I'm gonna I'm gonna bring this back
to director Bong again.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
Uh huh. Well, just for those who don't know about
Boxing Elena, it's a nineteen ninety three Uh. I guess
you could say erotic thriller about a rich surgeon played
by Julian Sands, who operates on the object of his
obsession is grotesquely disfigured aloof neighbor Sherylyn Fenn. So there's
some unnecessary surgery going on in that movie. Directed by

(01:18:09):
David Lynch's daughter, right, Jennifer Lynch, Yes, and shot in Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
Down the streets from where I live, I know. So
uh yeah, so I'm going to bring this back to
director Bong.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
So there is a dish that is in the movie Parasite.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
Uh huh, Yes, that is called rom dawn.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
Yes, right, that uh, the mom of the family makes
for the child. That's what's coming home. When I first
saw that movie, I was like, I gotta have this,
Like this looks fucking delicious.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
And before I even really knew about crane food or anything,
I was just like, I don't even know what it's called.
I just got to google it. But and I'm not
saying I know a lot of about cream food now,
but I'm just saying it's basically like what they call Chappaghetty,
which I don't even know if I'm saying that, right,
that's the brand that I know. But it's basically like

(01:19:15):
the noodles, the chappaghetti noodles. But then you put I
think there's like maybe some spicy ood on noodles in there,
and then like steak essentially, yeah, big junks. So when
I was like we were preparing for this episode, I
was like, well, I just saw Parasite fairly recently, so
I'm not going to watch it again, but I swear

(01:19:35):
if I watch it again, I'm making that shit and
I'm eating it when I watch the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
So yeah, well, well I think we should do an
episode on food at some point, a food movie episode.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
I agree, I'm I think that's an absolute no brainer
for us.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
In the cards anyways, thank you so much Casey for
writing in, or I should say, sending us a voicemail.
If you want to write in and are you need advice,
you need help from us, please write into Dear Movies
at exactly rightmedia dot com. You can send us an email,
or you can send us a voicemail like Casey did,
keep it under sixty seconds, and please record in a

(01:20:13):
quiet place. Just not the quiet place because there will
be monsters there trying to kill you. But please record
in a quiet place. Is it what is the name
of that movie? A quiet place?

Speaker 3 (01:20:24):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
Okay? Yeah, so don't record in the movie a quiet place,
but record in a quiet room, I should say and yeah,
and then you can just email that to Deer Movies
at exactly rightmedia dot com. Anyways, Millie, we're at the
end of our show. It's time for employee picks.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
What you got, all right, so our employee picks. I
feel like I extended this too. I don't know if
you did. Maybe either Balm June Hoe the director or
Robert Pattinson.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Yes, anything's allowed, anything that is inspired by the movies.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Okay, fantastic. I will tell you to watch The Lighthouse
from twenty nineteen. I feel like I briefly mentioned it
when we did we talked about Nos Fratu a couple
episodes ago. I this is my favorite Robert Digger's movie
so far. I loved Robert Pattinson in The Lighthouse. I

(01:21:20):
thought this movie was so fucking funny and weird and
wild and like, honestly, couldn't have gotten like two funnier
dudes to be in a movie together like our Pats
and Wilhem Dafoe. It was insane, funny, gross, hilarious, looked amazing,
great like location, great costumes. So like, I don't know

(01:21:44):
that to me. If you haven't seen The Lighthouse in
a while. I didn't, it didn't come out like super
long ago, but it's a good watch. You gotta watch again.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
Yeah, yeah, it shows our Pats is funny and can
do physical comedy. Yeah, that's where the seeds were planted.
Feel like, yes, in the minds of many that he
can do that. So yeah, fabulous. I was interested while
I was watching Mickey seventeen because I was like, you know,
Robert Pattinson has been in a different space movie where

(01:22:16):
his body is basically being used as an experiment. And
it's a very different movie than Mickey seventeen. It is
a movie called High Life from twenty eighteen, directed by
Claire Denie. Now, Mickey seventeen is a funny, fun movie.
High Life is a scary, sad, dark movie. So totally

(01:22:39):
they're completely different. So if you don't want that experience,
don't watch High Life. But basically, all of these prisoners,
a group of criminals who are serving death sentences, are
sent in a mission into space to extract alternative energy
from a black hole. And it stars Robert Pattinson, Miaga,

(01:23:00):
Juliette Bonoche, Andre Benjamin aka Andre three thousand and it
is a very interesting, violent frightening movie, and it deals
very much with the loneliness and vastness of space, but
it also deals with like what happens when you put

(01:23:23):
a bunch of crazy people together on a space ship
that's headed for a black hole. Yeah, a fascinating film,
really really fascinating sci fi. And if you like Claire Denis,
she's a famed French director. She did a movie from
nineteen ninety nine called Beautravie. She's done so many. Trouble

(01:23:47):
every Day is another great movie of hers. But yeah,
definitely check out High Life if you're ready, if you're
prepared for a really rough ride through space. Yeah, that's
my wreck.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Good one.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
Well, Millie, can you believe we're at the end of
another episode? Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
I know I'm hungry now, me too.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
I think it's because it's just dinner time.

Speaker 2 (01:24:11):
Well in my brain, it's like I don't know my brain,
it's like five thirty in the morning or something. But
that's because I'm on Japan time.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
I just got back from That's right, That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
Well, and listen, I if you guys are interested and
want to contact us, want to you know, talk about
your favorite ball and June Home movies if you want
to send us a voicemail all of that stuff. We
are at Deer Movies at exactly rightmedia dot com. Like
I said, film recommendations. If you've got a film grape,

(01:24:48):
love a film grape as you have heard, but email us.
We're monitoring twenty fourth.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
Monitoring twenty four to seven. Yes we have, We have
people on a twenty four to seven. Time an email
comes into the inbox, it's noted within seconds of its arrival.
Please follow us on our social media's our socials at
dear Movies. I love you on Instagram and Facebook.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
Oh and yeah, we're all letterboxed obviously. We are at
ca Celio O'Brien and at M to Jericho.

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
That's right. Well, Millie, thank you for another great episode
of this wondrous podcast. Thank you Josh Fadam for a
great conversation. Love that guy, check his stuff out and yeah,
that'll about do it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
Yep, that's it, See you guys next time.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
This has been an Exactly Right production hosted by me
Millie to Cherico and produced by my co host, Casey O'Brien.

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel, our associate producer
is Christina Chamberlain, our guest booker is Patrick Cottner, and
our artwork is by Vanessa Ilac.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
Our incredible theme music is by the s ben in
the entire world the Softies.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
Thank you to our executive producers Karen Kilgarriff, Georgia hard Stark,
Daniel Kramer and Millie. To Jerico, we

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
Love you, Goodbye, Beca

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