I Saw What You Did - No Billie No Philly - Dear Movies, I Love You

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of I Saw What
You Did. My name is Millie to Jericho, I'm Daniel Henderson,
and we're doing a field podcast for you once again. Danielle,
how are you.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm all right.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm pretty tired today, which we discussed minimally at the
top of when we first showed up. But I got
my my Roy Orbison patches on tavies are eye patches
that when I first put them on, Milly thought I
was wearing tinted lenses.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
I thought she was gonna start saying, you got it?
And uh, in fact no, Well now so you have
your like little therapeutic eye patches. I have like a
bunch of medicine on my lip because I busted a
hole in my lip. That I say it what I know,
don't ask.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Don't ask?

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Can you bust a hole in your Did you try
to give yourself a piercing?

Speaker 2 (01:02):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:02):
I wish God like one other way is there to do?
We should go back to self piercings. You know I
pierced my own nose. Did I had to ever tell
you that?

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Or what? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:13):
When I was in high school, me and my friend Danielle,
actually another friend of mine. Danielle pierced my nose on
my bed in my bedroom my parents' house with a
potato and a sewing needle.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
I feel like that was very common for us.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
Oh, of course, I think that that was like the
nineties way.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
There was no one like now you can go to
like you know, Claire's and get your nose pierced, but
you had to go to like an actual tattoo person, yeah,
to do it back then.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, And I think I've done at least two or
three of the earrings on my left. I think I've
done them myself, at least two. Man, those were rough days.
I don't want to go back there. I feel like
now that there's professionals for things. But yeah, anyway, long
story short, I've been I was looking at my face

(02:01):
too long and was like using a ten X mirror
and was like, what's wrong with my face? And then
I like started like picking at something that I shouldn't have,
and then all of a sudden there's a whole The
next day, oh my god, and now there's a scap.
So now I have like this weird like medicine on
my face. So we're we look like we're at the

(02:25):
esthetician's office today.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
We really are at a salon today. This is a
salon in more ways than one.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, I'm just like, I'm fucking tired.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
You probably heard in my voice a little bit, but yeah,
I went to the beach last week. My if you,
if you read my memoir, then you know that I
lost contact with my godmother a long time ago, and
like when I was a little kid, she moved away
and I recently reconnected with her, which is lovely, and

(02:54):
she's so cool and she's exactly the same, she has
the same little face and she's just so great, and
she was up she does live here anymore, but she
came up to visit because she was having like a
class for union or some reason to kind of be
up here and see a bunch of people.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
So I went down the shore and stayed with her.
She was staying with her her best friend.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
And what's so weird is that so it was my godmother,
her friend and her sister in law. And what's so
strange is that, like, I don't speak to my own mother,
but I love hanging out with her friends. Yeah, her
like and my and my godmother was really my aunt's friend,
my aunt who died of breast cancer a few years ago.

(03:35):
They were really friends, Like she went out, you know,
when my mom moved to California. They were you know,
they did the road trip together. But I just kind
of love hanging out with retired ladies who were about
my mom's age but who are not my mom.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Man, it's fun. Where does she live now?

Speaker 3 (03:51):
She lives in Florida now, Oh okay, wow, So she
actually came up pretty long ways and she sells you know,
like like a you know, brother and family in people here.
But it's just so great and like she came to
my house and stayed over one night, and it was
just kind of great to like have my godmother here.
But I just kept thinking how weird it is that,
like you could not pay me enough money to hang

(04:13):
out with my mom. But I love hanging And it's
great too because these are all people who like have
genuinely known me since I was born. So they told
me a story that I'd never heard before. Because and
we'll get into this when we talk about my movie today.
But my family doesn't tell me shit. They hardly tell
me anything. So I didn't realize that I've never known
what my first words were until I had this conversation

(04:36):
with my godmother and her best friend because they were
both there for my first words, and apparently because my grandma,
whenever she watched me, would set up my high chair
in the kitchen and then she would continue to, you know,
play cards and smoke cigarettes with her friends all day.
And my first words were may I, because they would
play this card game, and I guess that was part
of the card game, was asking like may I, Oh cute?

(04:57):
And so my first words were gambling words.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Hey, that's on brand somehow.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Like I knew that I knew that I was an
early talker, but I never knew what my actual first
words were, So that's you know, kind of the Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
I was like, I don't know what mine were, so
you're lucky, and.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
She was like she told me the story about how
I guess I was two and she brought me a
lollipop and I was holding a Mickey Mouse doll and
she said, oh, Danny, give Mickey a bite, and I
kind of looked at her, and then I leaned over
and I bit the Mickey Mouse doll. Because I guess
I've always just been a very literate person. Yeah, or

(05:36):
literal person. So she's like, no, I meant like the lollipop,
but I like bent over and bit the doll. She's like,
you were always very funny as a kid.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Man, that's so, that's cool that you have all these
like stories about you being a little little kid.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, because I don't really have.

Speaker 3 (05:55):
I mean, my grandmother is has dementia, So even when
she does tell me stuff, I'm like, I got a
fact check.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
This with my great aunt or somebody.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
I don't talk to my mom, and I don't think
she remembers a lot of stories about me, because I
don't think she's ever really liked me. But that's a
story for another time. But I don't know how much
my mom would remember, but I'll never know because I
don't speak to her, and it's not like my brother
or somebody would know. So I just it's nice to
have the kind of you know, the people in your
in your family's life who are not your actual family.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
I mean, my parents are still alive and I still
and I don't even know anything about my childhood. Like
I mean, I don't like there's only one story that
goes around, you know, like exactly there's only one and
It's the story from when I was like maybe three
years old and I was at the McDonald's with inside
of Woodfield Mall, which is in you know, outside of

(06:45):
Chicago North, in the northern urbs of Chicago, Illinois. And
apparently I smashed a ketchup packet and the ketchup would
flying and it got all over some dude suit and
he got really mad at my mom, and then my
mom offered to pay for the dry cleaning. That's the
only story that I know from like my my, you

(07:06):
know baby like toddler, you know, years before school. And
I'm like, that's it. That's all y'all have on me.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Got to start doing that story worth But instead of
asking them questions about their life, be like, answer this
for me and my life. What were my favorite toys
when I was a kid? Like, start telling me some shit, please,
Because parents only tell us the bad stuff. Yeah, like
when we were running around and hiding in a clothes
racket sears and they couldn't find us for an hour.

(07:33):
They'll tell you those kinds of stories, things that annoyed them,
but it's never like the darling sweet like oh, you
were such a cute baby when you did this, it
was like, God, raising you was such a pain in
the ass.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
I know. I was like, oh, so the only thing
I got is the that I ruined some guy's clothes.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
And then I can imagine a little baby Millie just
smashing the ketchup packet and then being like I'm punk
as fuck and then just going.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
I did find a picture of me where I I mean,
this is not anything like too outrageous, but my fashions
for like the first three years of my life were
basically overalls with nothing else, Like there's no shirt, so
it did kind of look like I looked pretty tough.
Not gonna lie I would it would have. It would
have been pretty punk rock to me back in that day.

(08:21):
But I was like, yeah, okay, I guess I just
wear overalls with no shirt on underneath. Yeah, I don't
know much. I don't know much. And like I said,
I mean, it's my parents are still around. But it's like, yeah,
it's nice to have that info though, just to hang
out with people, and I think that's pretty you know,
Like I don't know. I think I love hanging out
with people who aren't my family, So it's like I

(08:42):
love hanging out with other people's parents. Have you seen
that TikTok? This is so exactly what I'm assuming as
you right now. There's a TikTok where this guy, this
like grown man, is like, you know what the best
thing in the world is is hanging out with your
Asian friends retired dad.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
And then it.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Shows this life clip of like him fucking playing golf
with these like shinies, old Chinese guys and then they're
like they He's like, and you're drink you know, we're
drinking Hennessy at five pm. And then we go to
like a tea house that one of the guys built
in his backyard. He's like, this is the greatest lifestyle.
And I was like, this is standing out now. Now
she's just gonna be hanging out with retired women.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
One hundred the fuck percent. You know what they're doing
this winter that I've been invited to join.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
What they're going on? A Viking cruise?

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Shut the fuck up, man, you you have found the
place for you. Are you kidding?

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Like a ten city stop starting in like Barcelona or
something like that.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
My face is turning right. I want to go so bad.
What the fuck?

Speaker 3 (09:51):
Two or three weeks cash out that four to one. K.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
That's the best crew, right. I want a crew that
goes on viking cruises.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Come on man like and they're all they're so funny
and they're just like, we're going, you can come with us.
We are like stopping at some of these ports and
some of these cities. But like but they're like, we're
gonna be drinking and we're gonna be hanging out and
you're gonna be drinking. It is awesome. It's but I'm like,

(10:19):
this is the kind of shit that they're doing that
I am all about. Like they travel constantly, yes, and
they travel together because you know, my godmother's husband doesn't
really love to, you know, travel, he's got you know,
he doesn't really like to go a lot of places.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
And he's like, cool, go have fun with your friends.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
Yeah, I mean, oh do they do? They just go
my mom, she says, the same ship like my dad.
My mom's like, your dad doesn't have any friends, and
like he just sits around and he just waits for
me to come home. My mom is out with like
all those Filipino women, like they're they go to like
the Gucci store, they're you know, at the mall. They're like,

(10:55):
you know, going to North sti Rapp, which is their
favorite place, like they go out to eat. My mom
has like a hundred friends. My dad's zero friends and
so but my mom's like, but your dad also doesn't
like to do anything, right, I just like to.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
Stay home friends. If you wanted friends, he'd have friends.
He he does things on his own.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
That he likes. He golfs.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
He probably has people that he golfs with, but like
he keeps it real minimal and we're like party animals.
That's that's a real opposite to attract energy too, Like
you marry the person that is like not the same
exact energy as you look.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
I sometimes I think about that, like and I'm like,
that is so cute. Like I'm just like, listen, not
everybody has to like, you know, go go on eleven.
You know what I mean, like exactly, Like, to be honest,
I would think it was so cute if I had
this like little grumpy husband that sat at home all
the time doing is like weird his weird hobbies, and

(11:48):
it was just like, no, I'd rather die than leave.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
The house with you right now.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
I just now, Yeah, he's like I don't want to
shop at all with you. I would just stay home
and I'd be like, Oh, my grumpy husband doesn't want
to go out tonight, So I'm gonna go out with
like all my girlfriends and we're gonna go on a
Viking cruise.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
Yeah for three weeks. Goodbye, I tell it. Yah. But
it's like, I think, the what I appreciate about it
too is the not stopping each other from doing what
you like, you know, because I forget that that there
are a lot of There are a lot of people
who constantly like whenever I'm hanging out with them, they
always bring their spouses. But there are other friends of

(12:28):
mine who are just like, I don't know what the
fuck that person's doing, Like I wanted to do this,
and then we will come back together and chat it
out and we have other things that we connect on.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
It doesn't have to be this, It doesn't have to
be everything.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Look, if the spouse can hang, then cool. A lot
of times these spouses can hang and you know it,
and you know it.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
A fucking Jaramanni is just sitting there like.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
We went to do karaoke and he's sitting there like
completely sober, refusing to do any thing. He doesn't the occasion.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
No, this is a dampen It dampens the entire fucking experience. Yeah, Like,
if you want to hang out with your spouse and
try to get them to do fun things, do not
do that with your friends. If you don't know that
they're gonna have a good time, it will ruin everyone
else's time to be like, why isn't this dude, lady whatever, Like,

(13:23):
why isn't this person having fun with us?

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (13:25):
The fuck Just but that's the thing. Stay home, Like,
if you know that you're in a bad mood, if
you're tired or for whatever, just stay home. Do some woodworking.
Like no one's gonna care, you know, I mean, honestly,
at this point in my life, I'm like, I have
so like so many friends who have been with their
spouses for so long. I'm like, I don't even fucking
ask anymore. Everybody's just weird and old and has their ways.

(13:47):
So but it's better to stay home than to come
and ruin a vibe, is.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
What I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Absolutely, that is an important fucking distinction. It's not like
we don't care about your partner at all. It's like
if they're sick if they don't want to do like whatever,
But that's why you're here, so we can talk to
you about your life and your partner. And if they
are there with their sour face having a bad time,
we can't talk to you about what's going on in
your life because clearly that's part of what's going on.

(14:15):
Is that fucking jar Man's over there spoiling in the
sun is part of what's going on. Charm Just so
many people are just married the jars of mayonnaise on legs.
And I'm not just saying my friends, I mean people
at large in the general public.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
But truly, I think.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
That it's important too, because it's not I think I
worked really hard. When I was younger. I just had
the assumption that, like, oh, when my friends bring people around,
or when I bring my partner around, that I want
them to be part of the best things in my
life and I want them to share everything with me.
And that was a very twenties attitude. Now that I

(14:56):
am in my forties, I'm like, oh, yeah, I want
you to know the people of my life. You do
not have to hang out with the people in my
life in order for our relationship to be valid or
that friendship to be valid.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, I think I agree with that. I mean, it's
just like I don't know, like, let's be real, like
sometimes you're just like not like it's okay, here's here's
my party line about all of this. Okay, And I've
said this for like a long time. It is fine
to me that my partner doesn't like the things.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
That I like.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Absolutely, And that's been an evolution because when I was
in my twenties, I was so hardcore about it where
I was like, I would never date a guy who
did not own the second Elvis Costello record on vinyl,
like you know, just like Asinine rules, Acidine rules. But
now of course I'm it's we're all this is so

(15:53):
dumb like that, you know, having to create this like
you know, crazy labyrinth of things to be in love
with someone. It's just crazy. So my thing is is
that you don't have to like what I like or
even want to go out and do all the things
I want to do. However, you do have to be
enamored of me, and you have to be yes, you

(16:16):
have to be charmed by my shit. Like that's the
thing is that and I would do the same for you.
So if you're into like fucking fantasy football, not into
fantasy football, but then as long as I'm able to
be like, look at my cute husband being into his
fantasy football stuff, Like that's so cute. That's what I
love about him. I don't like it, but I love

(16:37):
that about him. And he could say the same thing
for me. Like, look at my girlfriend. She's like really
into Frederick March movies and wants to go to a
Frederick March marathon. I would never do that in a
million years, but I love her for that. What a cutie,
you know what I mean. Like, as long as that exists,
then we're fine. It's the only thing that is bad

(16:58):
is when you're like my girl. We're in a super
fucking weird because she likes old movies and like, ugh,
you know.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yes, you have to like me.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
You can like me and not need to do everything
I do. That's fine, And you have to also respect.
I mean, this is been discussed by me for years
on this podcast. You have to be able to get
out of my fucking face. I require time by myself.
I require time with my friends on my own. Let
me come back to you, and I want you to

(17:27):
have the same thing. Go do your fucking thing and
then come back. Because I think part of it too
is there's a real, a real evolution of trust that
I've had in myself when I was in my twenties,
when I was younger, and I say twenties because I
wasn't cool enough to day as a teenager. Sorry, But
when I was in my twenties and younger, you know,
I was always nervous that somebody was going to leave me.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
So I felt like, well, I have to be.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
Around them and you know, and infuse them into my
life so that they never go away and they just
want it like they're part of things. And that is
obviously not healthy or reasonable. And so now I feel
like I don't have jealousy. I don't care if you
flirt with people. I don't care if you are still
exactly who you are when we met, as long as

(18:13):
you like me, Like you don't have to constantly be
proving how much you like me by constantly being around me.
That is not what I need anymore. And so it's just,
you know, it's a personal evolution, but I think it's
really based in trust.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, I'm glad, like I'm glad that I can.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
You know, I'm not going to choose someone that I
don't trust or that I don't actually like. If I
trust what we have together, then I don't need to
be worried about all the other shit.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And like when it comes down to it,
like like I work a lot. I'm trying to be
better about that, and like a lot of times people
that I've liked or have wanted to be in relationships
with work a lot too. Like sometimes like you know,
I don't know, maybe they're an artist and they're in
studio all day. You know, I'm not trying to like

(19:00):
take that away from you as much as I wouldn't
want you to take that away from me. Right, but
guess what, I'll come bring you food, Like I love you,
I want to I want to support you. You can
be alone doing your own stuff, and I'm not gonna
get crazy about it anymore. Like I'm just gonna be like,
what do you need from me? Like you do you? Like,

(19:22):
here's a sack of crystal Burgers, like I love you,
make sure you eat today a sack, a sackful or
whatever you want. You know, it's just a thing where
it's just like I'm not, so it's not like an
indictment anymore. When somebody wants their needs, their alone time,
and that was like again like when you're young, you're like,
that's sus, Why do they want to be alone all

(19:44):
the time? Why do they want to do your own thing?

Speaker 3 (19:46):
But or just feeling upset because oh they want to
hang out with their friends instead of me. And I'm like,
you live together, you see each other every day. Let
this motherfucker go out and have a beer with their
fucking dudes.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
I mean if you're in a long distance relationship, that's
a little different.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
There are different.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Rules, but it's also all about communication, Like you have
to talk about what your needs are, yeah, and you
have to talk about what your requirements are, and like
what your non negotiables are and kind of what your
life is, which is why I think more people should
wait before they actually even get involved. Yeah, like keep
dating around because you don't Which is not to say
like you know, play the game or be out there

(20:23):
single forever, but I think you know, if you're not
if you're not sure or you know, you want to
be sure that you've kind of matched with someone who
can appreciate all that stuff about you. It's not just
do we like each other or we physically attracted to
each other, which I'm sure I know most people know.
Like I'm talking about this as if you know some
dating columnists where people just landed on Earth and don't

(20:45):
know how to do any of this.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Should we start a dating podcast? Should we just change
this podcast to a dating one?

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Can you imagine how hard we would get sued every
single week?

Speaker 1 (20:57):
I actually think you, I think you actually have a
very practical dating advice. I would I would accept some
advice from you, is what I'm saying. Like, look at
everybody else that's out here talking that shit.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Your frontal lobe just developed fully, Just stop popping, just
stop crispin around the edges.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
I'm like, I'm not. I can't sit here and be
like taking advice from, like from somebody like that. Plus
it's like, I don't know somebody that like creates an
entire internet pisoda around the fact that they're like some
kind of guru of wisdom and you know, and I'm
just like, okay, like maybe not for me, but.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
And it's regardless of age, because I think I'm just
kind of I'm wary of experts. I'm wary of the
self imposed experts label. Not because I don't think people
know things, but because I feel like there is a
weird level, there's a kind of like a weird level
of entitlement where they're not allowing them so to still

(22:00):
grow and evolve and learn. If they say I know
everything about this right now, that's it, and I would
rather get advice from someone who's like, I'm still out
here trying it, but these are some things I've learned
about myself to be true.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, it's different sharing your perspective and sharing like the
things that you've learned, but coveating it by saying, but
I'm also like a fuck up and I'm a work
in progress and I'm just a human being. Yeah, I
think there, but there are people out there that are
being definitively like I'm I'm trying to tell you how

(22:33):
to live, and that's the stuff where I'm like, yikes.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yikes, indeed, yikes, indeed, Yeah, I definitely can't hang with
that and that energy. It really is an energy like
don't come at me with I know everything, come at
me with.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Like I don't know, maybe try this like. It's just
a more.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Gentle way to indicate that you're also a human being
who's still trying, yeah, and doesn't have all the answers.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Well, listen, if I were to give you any advice
for your life right now, it's that you need to
go on viking cruises with old ladies. This is quite
literally a dream of mine, and you're gonna it's in
your life. It's in, it's in, it's within reach, so
grab it right there.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
It's right there.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
I mean if I a lot will have to happen
for that to be true.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
I will have to eventually go back to work and not.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Stress out about losing my house every day in my
life before I can hop on a cruise happily. But yeah,
but if it does happen, because there are some things
in the mix, if that does happen, I will be
going on that fucking cruise.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Look, as somebody who who was unemployed for a very
long time, you will be back in the high life again,
as Steve, as Steve Woodward says, you will be because
you're incredible, smart and talented, and I know you're landing
on your feet, so.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Thank you, And I've got Steve Winwood at my back.
He's the wind beneath my wings. Literally the wind, the
Steve wind would beneath my wings.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
You'll be doing the fucking Dougie on that like ship
in no time.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
You'll be like real talk. You know, I'm going over
the balcony at some point, just by accident, just by
like every room has a balcony, you know, I'll just
be I'll trip and fall over my own shoes or something,
and the coastcard will be like, we never found her body.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
She's just out there living on a deserted island somewhere.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
That should be the ad promsponsor masterpiece. And it's just
you flip it over the railing and falling into the Mediterranean.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Just come on our cruise and just slip into the sea.
Worst things have happened. You might make it.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Daniel Henderson falling over the railing.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Just and genuinely, just from my own clumsiness, not even
like oh she did something or she's drinking or whatever, like, no,
just my own clumsiness will send me over the edge.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
You know that's gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Right, You're like the only person who actually slipped on
a banana pail and flipped over a railing like that's.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
Completely Also, I'm going to add here in advance an
advance warning, please do not send us emails about why
you love doing everything with your partner, because I know
that's coming. I know half of you already fired up
those email fingers and you're like, but this is why
we do everything together. We had surgery and we're conjoined
at the fucking wrisk. Whatever, it is great for you.

(25:42):
I'm genuinely happy for you. Yeah, if your friends can
hang with your partner and you're having a good I
do not want to hear about it.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
I just don't let me have this opinion.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Let me have this opinion then, and for me, I
can't live that life. And I think more people should
just hang with their people and not bring their mayonnaise everywhere.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Well, listen, I think this is your This has been
use authentically since minute one of this podcast. You've always like,
you need your own space. You don't want to marry
the blob unless the blob can be an out of
space for half the time. Right, Like, we know this
about you, and I respect it. I mean I will
say that I think that my you know, listen, Hey,

(26:25):
if my partner was down for the stuff that I
liked fantastic, like I would, I mean, trust me, like
I I would probably I say this now, even though
I might regret this, I might live with someone again.
I would be open to that. Maybe I definitely would
travel with with with them and like I would love
to do things with them. But the reality is is

(26:47):
that most times at this age, people were just the
way that they are. And yes, I'm not going to
try to force that, you know what I mean. So
I'm just being realistic, that's all.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
And that's also more to my point, which is that
enjoy the things you enjoy together. Don't deny yourself the
things that you enjoy just because the person you're with
doesn't want to do them.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, go to the movie.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
That you want to see alone with your friend. Go
on the fucking vacation your fucking partner doesn't want to
go to Pompeii or Easter Island, figure that shit out,
Go on your own, go with a friend. Like I,
just don't limit yourself for a partnership because it doesn't
have to be that way. And it's also not the
sign of a failing partnership that you do think separately. Yeah,

(27:28):
and don't don't tell me about the target runs and
everything you love doing.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
I get it. I'm well aware of those people.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
They are in my life.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
I mean, yeah, listen, I can go either or I
would love to take naps with you. I would love
to go to Home Depot with you. But also if
you don't like anything that I like, and you're just
like I love and support you, but I'm not fucking
I'm not going to that going to THEA McIntire coordinazed
with you. Fine, Fine, also, fine, We're good.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
I'm not getting on the Tower of Terror at six
Flags on Halloween, and I am not spending eighty dollars
on an Andre three thousand T shirt at a concert.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I'm not going to three or four LLB in stores
with you. That's what I'm for. That's what Danielle's for exactly.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Oh, speaking of something completely the opposite of what we've
just been talking about.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Let's get into our movies.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Let's go. Oh my goodness, Danielle, this week.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
This week bummed me the fuck out.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Okay, I want to go back and ask you this
because I swear to God, I thought when we were
coming up with the themes for this section of time.
I thought we were trying to be happy and fun
and like effervescent. Were we being like, oh yeah, let's
do like a bunch of like cool I don't know,
like summerish type of movie is like give ourselves some space,
like nothing like emotionally draining And then this shit.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Well, also last week we had Children of Men in
mad Max Fury Road. What happened this? Why am I
so bad at picking good happy shit? We're supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
In our Dante's peak moment, we ruined it for the
past couple of weeks.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
So I think this I'm thinking of this as an
autumnal reset. This is coming out like the second week
of September, and maybe all just need to bring that
summer energy down a bit. And that's where these movies
will come in handy, because you will cry for a
long time. Yeah, possibly after watching these movies foreshore.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
So what tell them what the theme is this week?

Speaker 3 (29:43):
Our theme this week is an ass pocket a whiskey,
and our alternate theme could be men Don't protect you anymore?
That Jenny Holtzer art piece. Because we're talking about women
in creative women who have been failed in some way,

(30:05):
in big ways.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, can I just tell you that, like last year,
I think it was last year, I actually watched both
of these movies in very close proximity to each other,
Like I watched The Rose with like some friends of mine,
because everybody was like everybody in my friend group was like,
let's watch a bunch of middller movies. And so we

(30:27):
eventually got around of this one, and that's that's my
movie for this week. But then I want to say,
I watched Ladies Sings the Blues like maybe two or
three weeks after, and I was like, wow, these are
very similar movies in a way, right, And so when
they popped up in the theme, I was like, Okay,
now I'm gonna watch my a true double feature, and
then felt so bad after both.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
Maybe that's why I'm so I'm like, maybe that's why
I'm so tired. I'm truly emotionally exhausted after watching this
week's movies. Which is not to say don't watch them. No,
you must if you're tender. If you're tender bitch like
me and Milly, maybe you don't watch them as a
double feature. They must be watched, though, I think I
think They're crucial to our development of understanding how women

(31:11):
are treated.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
When they're artistic.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
And if you want to have the most depressing triple
feature of your life throwing the Emmy Winehouse documentary, no
one protected her either.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Well, I like this is the thing, Like maybe this
is maybe I don't know, maybe you've sort of summoned
up a topic in our intro about partner support, right,
or like the ways in which women are either supported
or not supported by their partners, And I feel like
those This is like the theme that runs through both

(31:43):
of these movies, right, is like these women who are
professional artists who meet men and they're kind of like, then,
how do they navigate the career with the relationship with
the you know, habits, yep, the road like that kind
of stuff. I don't know. It's interesting that now that

(32:05):
now the intro is like that we just did is
makeing a little bit more sense for this theme.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
We didn't plan it, but subconsciously we are about those connections.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Well, and like, quite honestly, I uh, the music that
appears in my movie I'm going first this week anyway,
so yeah, you'll probably get into it is not necessarily
my style, but I also feel like her. I want
to say that when I watched Bet Midler talk about
forming the character that she played in The Rose, that

(32:37):
she did consider the life of your of the person
that starts in your film, So it was kind of
like a weird influence for her completely.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
So yeah, because there's a there's a lot of these
tragic life stories. I mean mine, Mine is based on
a real life musician. The Rose is a fictional music who's,
like you said, pulled elements.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
From real life.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Because there are just a lot of people, women in particular,
who really, for a long time got run through the
ringer for the sake of their art. I hope that's
not happening as much now. I think there are other
issues and other problems. I think people are more aware
of the exhaustion that comes with this kind of life
and touring, and they're a little bit more healthy about

(33:26):
protecting themselves from certain things, but not everyone. And I
think that there again, other problems just pop up where
you know you have to always struggle. It's always a
struggle for me when I watch women who are at
the top of their game having to make excuses for
why they need a break or why they need to
pull back, or why they need help or why they

(33:46):
you know, why they need anything. So I think both
of these movies kind of exemplify that as well. I
fucking love your movie so much. I've loved it since
I was, you know, too young to watch it for sure,
but Bett Miller is incredible in this role.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
She really like physically gives her all.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah, for sure. And it's also like this time rewatching
it really made me think about like dating musicians, which
I've never done before.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
I know you have.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
I don't know if you have any wisdom or experiences
to share, but I was always like, I don't know.
I think everybody is sort of enchanted by the idea
of dating musicians obviously, but then I don't know, something
like my movie happens and I'm like, oh, wait a minute,
that must be really hard for a regular person. I

(34:37):
don't know how you felt, but.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Well, yes, I have dated musicians. I might still be
dating musicians.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
But it is again.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Comparing younger self to current self. I think it's completely possible.
You have to have very good communication, and you have
to be incredibly realistic about how how limited they are
with time. So even if it seems like well, they're
just playing a show once a night, a couple of

(35:08):
nights a week.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
They should have.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
Plenty of time to call me or hang out with
me or text me or whatever. There are things behind
the scenes that you can't even imagine, you know, radio
interviews and rehearsals and you know, meeting up with other
musicians and just wanting to relax and have a good
time and physical shit and getting massages and doing ice
bad Like they're like athletes in a way, So it's
not you just have to be very realistic about what

(35:31):
they need as people, I think, to do the job
they're doing first and not necessarily minimize your own needs,
but just recognize that if you're dating a Tory musician,
it's not going to be all about you most of
the time. If you need that in your relationship to
feel secure, then there will be several months out of
the year where you don't have that.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
So yeah, I think my vision of dating a musician
one day is I need them to be in there
like I'm a composer for the for the cinema things
of their career, where they just like lock themselves in
the studio with a piano and then come out of
the studio and then we have dinner and stoutly like

(36:15):
the touring component. I mean this, this really hit I
think with both of the movies this week, I was like, man,
the touring component seems like such a fucking like factor,
Like just things are so unknown in that world that
I don't know. I don't know if I could handle
it as a normal person, but I know.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
And that's again another thing where I feel like in
my twenties when I'd be on tour buses and shit,
and like you know, it was fun as hell. It
was super fun because I had nothing attached to it.
But at this point in my life, I will say
it is much better. It feels better to date a
musician who treats their profession seriously and doesn't treat touring

(36:56):
like a free for all, because there's time and a
place for that. But the longevity of your band and
your relationships really depends on your ability to be a
real person sometimes, so yeah, that shit's but you know,
being on a tour bus is fun and I'm so
lucky that nothing bad happened to me like buses right,

(37:18):
Like dor buses are the site of massive trauma for
a lot of people, particularly women and young women, And
I don't know, I'm just I'm very lucky that for
a lot of my life I've done incredibly reckless things
that didn't seem reckless at the time, and I mostly
came out unscathed.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
I used to hang out with grown ass men in
bands when I was in high school. I mean I did,
I mean, and not anything, but just like being at
someone's apartment after the concert, just hanging out. Nothing bad happened,
and I'm just like, thank God, nothing bad happened.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
We run through it, we really, you know, Because again
that's part of what this what I both of our
films I think also elucidate a bit is that as layman,
we always see the touring side of things as very
seductive and attractive and fun and interesting, but it's mostly
just very fractured and dangerous and fraught and weird. So

(38:22):
I think there's there's a perception of touring that that
makes us want to be part of that world when
we're you know, when you're younger, or even when you're older.
But I can see how as teenagers we got kind
of wrapped up in being around that scene because it
seemed very to me very seductive and very like, well,
this is where the artists are, this is where the
people are that I want to hang out with. So yeah,

(38:44):
I can see how that gets a little convoluted, but
just fucking protect yourself, bring friends, don't be alone with
any creeps, trust your gut, understand that there are indeed
creeps out there.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Like well, I think to your point is, like, you know,
alternative indie punk rock music made you made the barrier
between fan and artists like pretty pretty non existent. I
mean it's like, you know, it wasn't like I was
sitting around hanging out backstage with like fucking Donnie Wahlberg
or something, you know what I mean. It was like, oh,

(39:17):
I was just hanging out with people who were in
bands who were grown ups, but they were also like able.
They slept on people's couches, they you know, basically did
small club shows where you could like theoretically hang out
with them, and so that kind of created a different
scenario than maybe like some you know, like hanging out
with Beyonce or something. But yeah, I agree. I feel

(39:40):
like I think these two movies are just like really
good together because it talks about like the realities of
touring and being a touring musician trying to have a
normal life when you probably can't have a normal life,
and then also being a woman on top of all
of that, and how that's different for them, and also
the ways in which like the men that come into
their lives affect everything. So I don't know, this is

(40:04):
gonna be a good week.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
It's sad.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
It's sad, but it's good. And I want y'all all
to watch the movies.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
So Sae, well you're going first. I love your film,
can't wait for you to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah, yeah, let's go. So my movie is from nineteen
seventy nine. It was written by Bo Goldman and Bill Kirby.
It was directed by Mark right Now, and it's called
The Rose. Pretty many dollars for the days when talking
about catching a nan I just can't drench up to
sincerity anymore. Wrong. Yeah, So, I don't know a one
sentence synopsis. I mean, it's pretty it's pretty much like

(40:38):
I don't know. I won't call it a standard biopic,
but it's basically a female musician is battling demons with
her life and her career while also meeting a man
who throws a wrench in an entire plan.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
So this is Bette Miller's first starring role. If you know,
you probably know more than me about Bette Miller. Guys,
let's get serious. But she started her career off off
Broadway in the late sixties and then famously performed with
Barry Manilo. By the way, I always forget that that

(41:20):
her and Barry Manilo performed at the Continental Baths, which
is the gay bathhouse that was in the basement of
the Ansonia Hotel in New York City. And this was,
you know, the beginning of her career, and then eventually
she started releasing music and then it wasn't until The
Rose in nineteen seventy nine. That was her first movie,
and it was co produced by her agent at the time.

(41:41):
So yeah, she was going to start in a movie.
And she actually got nominated for an Oscar for this,
which I think is really cool. So the whole thing
that you talked about in terms of it being sort
of sort of a Janis Joplin biopick, or at least
inspired by the life of Janis Joplin, it was initially
supposed to be an actual jazz Choplin film, and it

(42:05):
was called Pearl, you know, obviously, and I've read so
many directors were attached to it at one point, Like
I think I read that the first director that got
approached to make it is Ken Russell, And I'm like,
can you imagine a Ken Russell Janis Joplin biopic? It's

(42:29):
probably I mean, I just it would probably just be
so insane I can't even think of it. But yeah,
So I think the story goes is that they were
planning on it being about Janice and then her estate
basically declined, and so it kind of turned into what
the Rose actually became, which is sort of inspired by

(42:50):
a character that's supposed to be like Janz Choplin but
is a separate entity. And so Bette Midler plays a
woman named and Rose is a wild child of the
late sixties. She drinks and swears, and she was a
former heroin Addict and she's physical and you know, just

(43:13):
very like unabashed and just kind of has this like
very bold persona, right and right off the bat, you're like,
she's wild because she carries full bottles of alcohol in
her little hippie bag, which she just pulls out like
she pull out an entire bottle, like not even an

(43:34):
ass pocket of woist, but like a full, full strength
bottle and she carries out. God, do you remember those
bags from high school with like they were like messenger
bags made of cloth, and you just like put the
whole thing over your body. It kind of like a
mailman's sack.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
Hell yeah, embroidered. It throws some fucking sequence on it,
some pearls of like beads or whatever.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
I ever had one of those backs because I was
into carrying lunchboxes as purses.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Oh I did both. I did both, bitch.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
I bet, But it's so fut a lunchbox in the
satchel got the lunch.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
The satchel is never ending.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Though.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
How much space did that satchel hold? It was like
you could put fucking three pairs of shoes in there
and like a whole you know, a whole bottle of alcohol.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Apparently you could put books for school. Let's say you
were in drum Corps Daniel Henderson. Afterwards, you could put
your drum core boots in there, with some shoe polish
you could put and again I'm talking like textbooks, not
just like a paperback copy of fucking Wuthering Heights textbooks, shoes.

(44:54):
We all had scoliosis at some point, like we all
developed back problems.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
In this moment.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
But it was endless. You could if you were a drinker,
you could put alcohol in there. People put cigarettes in there.
People would put their fucking keys in there. They'd be
holding onto shit for other people, entire outfits for other friends,
Jim clothes if you had to change for Jim, throw
gym clothes in there.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
They're huge, huge bags. They looked innocent, but they carried
so much. But but yeah, so Rose's carried around. You know,
she's got her like little scarbs and everything, and she's just,
you know, like she has a kind of Janice or
early Steven Tyler from Aerosmith look to her. So here's
the thing. She's she's famous, she's touring all the time,

(45:35):
she's fucking exhausted, and she really wants to take like
an entire year off after her final show of the tour,
which happens to be this homecoming show in Florida for her. So,
and this is kind of like a thing that gets
addressed many times in the movie. Is this idea that

(45:56):
she wants to go home and she wants to like
prove to her old family and her old friends that
she's a good person and that she's made something of herself. Right,
So it's kind of this like goal of hers to
do really well at this show.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Okay, And she's also super lonely, like she you know,
can't get laid in her words, and she just really
is like, I need time to be a person.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Yeah, she wants some time off because yeah, the road
is really harsh and she's just in different cities and
different times when you know what this is like. Plus
she has a manager who was played by the actor
Alan Bates, who is fantastic. He's so swarthy and like
fucking late seventies coke bloated in this movie. I'm obsessed.

(46:43):
He's got that look. Maybe he would have been in
a different life. He would have been on stage on
the last Waltz like fucking kicking his legs up in
the air, like he's got that look to him.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
What a described.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Poked out on stage during the last Waltz concert. Kicking
That's what Alans is.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
On a scale of one to ten, Help blooded are
they well? Being Ben Morrison in a sequince suit kicking
his legs. I kick it across the stage.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Coke Boogers coming out, Baby's about a nine. But the
thing about Alan Bates is, you know, he's the manager.
His name is uh Rudge, right. He is trying to
keep this plane flying, which is like most I would
say most standard music biopics has this character of the

(47:46):
manager that's just trying to keep the shit together. His
technique is a little harsh, right, because he's like, I'm
I'm in charge of a wild woman and I think
that in her. In his mind, he's like, I gotta
be really tough on her, and at times she hates

(48:07):
him for it, but then at certain points she accepts
that that is the only way that she's going to
be able to continue doing.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Her art, you know what I mean, needs it.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah, she needs someone to be in charge of something, right.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
So it's this like push pull with this manager, Like
she calls him a magician. But then she's like, I
need a fucking break and you're hassling me. So this
is where she's at mentally. She's lonely, she's tired. She's like,
I'm famous, but I'm just I want I want something different.
So as part of it, you know, this is again

(48:41):
I think part of the theme of this of this
week is there's these moments where she's like battling essentially
a sexist music industry, right, Like she's just she's a
woman who's like in charge of her own power, and
yet there's she's always running up against guys who just
like want to put her down or treat her like shit.
And there's this scene pretty early on in the movie

(49:02):
where Rose is introduced to basically her idol, who is
this old country singer named Billy Ray. And of course
he is played by Harry Dean Stanton. So when I
was watching, there's some special features on the Criterion disc
of The Rose where there was an interview with Bette

(49:22):
Midler and she talked about this scene and talked about
working with Harry Dean Stanton. She famously did not like
Harry Dean Stanton. She's like he was the only person
I hated working with on this movie, which after watching
the scene, I was like, yeah, I think this cuts
pretty hard. I don't know, it's like the blurring of

(49:42):
the character and the real person maybe, but it so
Billy Ray is basically like backstage, she comes up, she's
like with Rudge and she's like, I've loved you forever.
I've covered your songs. You're so great, and he's basically like,
I wish you wouldn't do that. I wish you wouldn't
cover my song because you're trash essentially, And in that moment,

(50:06):
you just feel like she's just so heartbroken because she's like,
here's my idol saying that I shouldn't touch his songs
because he hates me and hates what I'm about. So
it kind of sends her off into the night. She
kind of like runs from the scenario because she's humiliated
and embarrassed and sad, and she just jumps into a
limousine and that limo is driven by a man named

(50:31):
Dyer Houston Dyer, and he's played by the great actor
Frederick Forrest, who you've seen in many, many things. And
she's just like, get me the fuck out of here.
I don't want to be here, and he does, and
they just kind of start off on this like crazy
like night of fun and they go to a diner

(50:53):
and apparently this is the late sixties, and I always
forget this. I don't know why I should, because we
talked about this when we did Easy Rider, but this
was an era where like normal people really hated hippies.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Yeah, like would not serve you level hatred.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah, like they're not allowed to eat in the diner
because a bunch of old men who are wearing like
hunting caps and Carhart jackets are like, we don't like hippies.
Get it, get out of here, don't serve her, Louise,
don't don't give her that Danish we don't like hippies
in here. I was like totally fucking shit, Like, was

(51:33):
it really like that?

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Apparently it was, Yes, it was and still is for
a lot of in a lot of ways, for a
lot of people in.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
A lot of places.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Agreed, agreed, but.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
Prejudice just carries on.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
But yeah, it is weird to see in that moment
because they don't really look particularly hippyish to me, like
even especially dire like Dier's.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Wearing jeans and a T shirt. Yea yeah, yeah, like
Rose looks a little wild but not crazy.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
I don't know, it just it doesn't translate to me
as like, oh, yeah, they look like dangerous, weird hippie types.
But like you said, in this setting where everyone is
dressed the same, anything out of that norm was just
like a nope.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Right, because at this point, I'm like, all, isn't there
that couple in a diner in every single city, in
every single place in America or around the world. Now,
there's always a couple in a diner who's like a
normal looking guy and then a girlfriend who has a
giant satchel bag and like platform heels on and is

(52:39):
like like looking for a cigarette. Like, there's always that
couple that's like, ah, well, a woman rifling through a
fucking hippie bag to I don't know, for her own stuff.
So I don't know. To me, I'm like, well, there
are there, of course are supposed to be here, guys,
why why hassle in them? But again, late sixties.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
Different era.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
I kind of love about this film that usually wherever
Rose goes because she's super fucking famous, so wherever she
goes where she has these encounters where people kind of
don't want to deal with her. She invariably meets some
kid or a group of kids who are like, holy shit,
you're the road, like someone else who's like very into her,
but she, like most of us, only focuses on the negative. Yeah,

(53:17):
so's the great juxtaposition that's set up in the in
the film visually, I think, yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Well, I'm like most impressive to her is that basically
when they're in this diner scene early in the movie,
you know, Dyer's like, fuck this shit. He starts punching
guys out, and she is so impressed by that because
she doesn't feel protected by anyone, you know what I mean,
Like she's got like she has this woman always on

(53:42):
the road with a bunch of like gross men, and
they you know, they just basically need her to continue
making them money and that's really the only reason to
sustain her at all. So she's just like, oh wow,
this guy like basically stood up for me, and that's
just I don't know, something that I needed the time.
So the thing is like after that moment, she's just like,

(54:03):
let's go out, like I like, you like, let's have
a good time. They end up going to like a
drag club, which you know is kind of a nod
to you know, the actual Bette Miller's sort of early career.
So and one of the cool things about this scene
is Sylvester the artist who did you know disco in
the seventies is in the scene dressed as Diana Ross

(54:25):
and this is all like sort of a nod to
bet Miller's early career in the math houses. So I
always love that that cameo happens. But here's this guy,
Houston Dyer, who is like rolling with these punches, right,
And it's kind of this weird test, I think for Rose,

(54:48):
because she's like, most guys that come into my orbit
are just pieces of meat. At one point, she says,
you know, they just want, you know, to have sex
with me, be around me, maybe get a little money,
some drugs, some superstar access, but ultimately they don't care
about me. Right. But here's this guy who's kind of like, yeah,

(55:12):
I am who I am. I don't lie about anything.
I'm just kind of this authentic guy that kind of
likes you and I want to hang out with you.
And it just becomes that's like, that's sort of how
the relationship gets started, right, is that he's kind of
showing up for her in spite of all of this
drama of her life, even though there are times where

(55:34):
the lifestyle is trying to push him away, right, because
he eventually goes on tour with her, and he's just
always going. He's got to be a part of his
rock and roll thing, which again is like kind of
not really his vibe. She finds out that it's at
some point that he is actually a wall from the
army he escaped, and there seems to be sort of,

(55:58):
you know, like a theme about that where people are
trying to escape this life that they don't want to
live this sort of uh they want to get back
to just sort of being an authentic person. And I
think she's kind of inspired by that in a weird
way by saying like, oh, I'd love to at some
point leave this music industry and just like literally have
a boyfriend or a husband and settle down and be

(56:19):
somebody else, be a real person, right exactly.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
And her health is so tied to that. And I
think it's also so tied to the time where a
lot of people were, you know, clearly making that decision
to not follow the path that was set up for them,
where they actually wanted to try doing other things. So like, yeah,
maybe you joined the army and just thought I don't
want to do this shit, I actually don't want to
do this, Or you're a world wide international best selling

(56:47):
artist and you're like, yeah, that's fine, but I also
just don't want to do this for a while, so
I think it's it's kind of endemic of the time
as well.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean there's certain things about it too
that I think are interesting. I mean, you know, we're
talking about like late seventies, so you're kind of like,
you know, sort of like, you know, second wave feminism
was already sort of happening by this time, and there
are moments of the movie that I think addressed that
where she does she does give big speeches about like
being a woman in the industry and sort of being

(57:15):
a woman navigating men at this time, which is really interesting.
But it's like, you know, I think a huge part
of this movie is the relationship between Rose and Houston,
because again it's sort of this like it's a delicate
situation because he loves who she is. He loves that
she's this like bold, outrageous woman who drinks and you know,

(57:39):
like cuts up and can like hang with the guys.
But then there becomes this line where he's just sort
of like, I don't I can't sign on to all
of it. There's an altercation that happens between the two
of them after like he catches her like backstage making
out with his old girlfriend of hers, and he just
like kind of spins out about it because he's just like, well,
now you're kind of cheating on me. And I don't

(58:01):
really know if I'm down for this, And there's just
other moments where and I'm not gonna give it away obviously,
because the ending is I think, really important, but he
gets pushed away a lot because he's sort of like,
I don't know if I can hang. And then at
a certain point, Rose does devolve and goes to the
darkness at some point, and it's a real test for

(58:22):
both for her but for them, you know. But yeah,
and it kind of all culminates into this like Florida Show, which,
like I said, I won't give away, but is you know,
pretty dramatic. Yeah. So this is I mean the movie
that I like. It's so interesting. I feel like it

(58:42):
really did sort of. It was sort of a way
to make Bette Midler very present, very much a movie star,
because she obviously would go on to do so many
other things, but she performs like a motherfucker in this movie.
Like I said, the music is not my thing at all,
but the way she kind of comes across on stage

(59:02):
because there are like long performance pieces in the movie. Yeah,
so there's the drama, but then there's also just like
long concert segments where she's performing and she's a beast
in those ws.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
I watch some behind the scene, like some interview that
she'd done recently or like, you know, years years years
later where she talked about how she done gymnastics as
training for this. Yeah, like she was doing like physical
shit on stage and was just wild, and I kind
of I love that. I love the way the music

(59:34):
is woven into the film because the music is fantastic,
you know, like you said, whether it's your style or not,
Like you cannot deny her singing in this film. But
I also love that she's not an overly sympathetic character.
So there are times where she does shit that's really
fucked up and you're like, you shouldn't be doing that,
And then she goes on stage and it's just like

(59:54):
singing with this wild abandon that makes you think, oh, yeah,
like this is like her life is all infused with
the same kind of wild energy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
So it's wild.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
It's just it's just great to see her on stage
being so unencumbered, and then she's trying to figure out
how to be like regular people in her real life,
but that's not what people want from her. People want
her to be a little bit out there, and they
punish her for it in some ways, but they really
expect it. And there's just this this main of trauma
that runs through her life where she's you can see

(01:00:26):
her trying to she's really trying to turn an awful
situation into kind of a like a like a very
inconsequential story of her past. Yes, but it keeps coming
up in these weird ways. So you just know that
there is this initial pain for her of when she

(01:00:48):
started feeling like she.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Didn't belong to herself.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
So yeah, I just I love this movie and Bette
Midler again undeniable in this fucking role. And like even
now watching I've seen it so many times. Even now
watching it, I felt that that real sadness and the
heartache and fear, like I was so afraid for her
in so many parts, and you know, just the frantic
energy of her like literally running through a bathhouse and

(01:01:14):
like just it's so fun and sad and just really
a mix of emotions that I think is pretty special
to Bette Midler.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Yeah, she brought out in this performance.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Yeah. Plus this movie just looks gorgeous. I mean, I
think like every great cinematographer in Hollywood worked on this
film apparently, so, like you know, Villmo Zigmund was the
cinematographer for most of the dramatic scenes for most of
the movie, but then Laslo Kovacs and Haskell Wexler did

(01:01:50):
some of the concert footage stuff, so it was like, yeah,
every it was bound to look gorgeous. Kind of like
a track story, but also like I don't know, sort
of inspiring in terms of maybe the idea that musicians
could maybe transition out of like this crazy rock and

(01:02:14):
roll life and find their own happiness. I mean, I
don't know, Like I said, won't give it away, but
it's at least a question that she tries to explore
at a certain point. I love the scenes with her
at the very beginning. I love the scenes with her
in Houston because it's so cute, like when they're in
the hotel and they're just kind of like in bed,
like having conversations and stuff. I don't know, I mean,

(01:02:35):
it just was very tender. It was nice to see
those scenes.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
But and it's also I think cool to see or
a big part of the movie for me watching it
now that I probably didn't realize before this viewing is
that you're also you're watching someone as an artist trying
to navigate well, you know, in order to be the
artist I want to be, I have to be this
kind of open wound walking around the world, open to

(01:02:59):
experience and to what people will say and do to me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
But I also need to protect myself.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
So she's trying to find that balance of like, how
can I be the artist I want to be while
also maintaining some shred of my humanity for myself?

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Yeah, yeah, very true. Also, I brought this up like
I think in the past, but I remember when I
was in middle school, when I was in chorus, we
sang the Rose for one of our concerts, which I
didn't realize was from this movie. I love letting little
kids sing this song.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
I have love let little kids sing this song forever,
and they sing it at like church and shit, like
people think it's like the most innocent.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
Cute little thing, and I'm like, you should check that source.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Yeah, I was like, there was an ass pocket of
whiskey involved here, and I'm like twelve, being like, you know,
singing my uh my alto part of this sad fucking song.

(01:04:05):
So that's my movie for this week. Now I have
we have to talk about your movie next because it's
very important.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
We really do, we really do.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
So my pick for the theme and ass Pocket a
Whiskey was released in nineteen seventy two screenplays by Terence McCloy,
Chris Clark, and Suzanda Paz.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
It was directed by Sidney J. Fury. My movie is
Lady Sings the Blues.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
You mean we have all this one and we should,
Jill be paid.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
I'll give you the one sentenced synopsis because pretty easy
this week. My one sentenced synopsis is some, not all,
of Billie Holliday's life story. So this film is based
on the book by Billy Holliday and William Dufty. Billie Holiday,
of course, very famous jazz singer who died in nineteen

(01:04:56):
fifty nine and had a deeply complicated life prior to
becoming a well recognized singer and right up through.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
To the end of her life.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
So this movie was nominated for five Academy Awards. It
was Diana Ross's debut feature film role. We could have
done a little theme about that. Samah On screen for
the first time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
And critics were all over the place with this movie,
like some really loved Diana Ross's acting, but didn't like
the screenplay or the directing. Some thought her acting left
a lot to be desired, but most were really bothered
by how it reduced Billy Holliday to a cliche.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
So I'm not going to read you all of the.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
Reviews that I found from all of the critics, but
i will say that Pauline Cale, who is a film
reviewer for The New Yorker and the November fourth issue,
in nineteen seventy two, in an article titled or a
column that she called the current cinema pop versus Jazz,
she said, and I quote, Lady Sings the Blues fails
to do justice to the musical life of which Billie

(01:05:56):
Holliday was a part, and it never shows what made
her a star, much less what made her an artist.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
So I will say I kind of agree with that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
As much as I think this film is very important,
it goes too quickly at parts where I feel like
you really need to dig in and give us a
little more here. I just wish there were moments where
they had slowed it down and this is this movie
is two and a half hours long, like they had
the time, so I wish they would have kind of
there are just parts that I wish they kind of

(01:06:25):
emphasized a bit more. But I do think it was interesting,
and I think, you know, a lot of people also
had problems with the fact that it was Diana Ross
playing Billie Holliday. Diana Ross famously very thin and very beautiful,
and a lot of people thought that her voice didn't
really match the kind of smoky, jazzy sadness of Billie Holliday,
like she just kind of sang in her voice like

(01:06:46):
Madonna and Avida.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
She just was like, well, I'm doing it this way. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
So and that is all to say, not that you
again you shouldn't watch this film, but just that as
I was watching it again, I was, you know, looking
up this information. I thought, yeah, there are things about
the film that I probably were making this today, would
not have done. But I also think that at the
time that this came out in nineteen seventy two, it
was pretty important she was Billy Holliday's fame just grew

(01:07:13):
after her death, so I think it was important to
have something showcasing who this woman was. It just so
happened to come out during a time when there were
a lot of movies about tragic women that all did
kind of fall into a cliche pattern. But I don't
think it was because Billy Holiday's life was not dynamic.

(01:07:36):
I'm also going to reveal my personal history with Billy Holiday.
So years ago, like ten years ago. Grandma's still lucid,
and all I'd ever heard in my life growing up
about my grandfather's father is that he left the family
when my grandfather was very young.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
That was it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
That's all anyone ever said, because I would ask, you know,
I knew my great grandmother, my grandfather's mother, and I'm like,
where's your dad, And they're like, well, he just he's
not with us. He just left the family when my
granddad was ten years old. So cut to like ten
years ago, and my grandmother, out of fucking nowhere says,
by the way, like we were talking about something, and

(01:08:19):
she says, well, you know, your great grandfather did all
that piano and touring and shit. I was like, what
are you talking about, because I'm thinking my great grandfather,
her father, the only great grandfather I've ever known, as
it turns out my grandfather's father was Robert Henderson. He
was born in nineteen ten. My granddad was born in

(01:08:40):
nineteen twenty nine. And yes, he left the family when
my granddad was nine or ten. My granddad was the
first kid born at a four and he played stride piano,
and he was briefly engaged to Billie Holliday, whoa and
he left the family because he was briefly engaged to
Billie Holliday. So stride piano is like a style of

(01:09:05):
piano that you could play the origins or in rag time,
and like the right hand plays a melody in the
left hand.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
To me, just sounds like it's all over the place.

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
But I've been able since my grandmother told me this fact,
I've been able to look up facts about my great
grandfather and I found some of his music. I found
I own a couple of his CDs, and I just
want to play a little bit for you. Now, play
some stride piano for you. Yeah, just in case you've
never heard it before. If you've heard Fat Swaller, then
you've heard stride piano. But it was very popular in Harlem,

(01:09:33):
and kind of the origins are in rag time. He
basically he played on live performances with Billy Holiday, but
she used different artists for her recordings, so he's not
any of her albums, but he has his own albums.
He played Newport Jazz best. But I just think it's
interesting that whenever I look into information about him, like
his Wikipedia page, nothing mentions his actual family, which.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
Was my grandfather.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
So he had four kids and a wife that he
left starting with Billie Holiday, you know, obviously cheating on
my great grandmother when my granddad was five, and then
he left him went on the road and toured with
her a little bit, but then ended up playing in
the Catskills and dying very young. He died in like
nineteen sixty nine, when he was like only fifty nine

(01:10:18):
or something. But that's my little weird connection to Billie Holiday.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
You should write an article about that, or like, yeah, right,
do something, Yeah, I get you read write for the
New Yorker. I would. I would definitely crack open the
New Yorker and love to read about that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
It is I should I should write something about because
it is very It's interesting to me also that as
a child I was very easily able to pick up instruments,
particularly the piano. Like I never played the piano, but
I had lots of friends that did, and I would
be able to. You know, I guess it's not even
wrote memorization. I would hear them play a song and

(01:10:53):
then I could play some of it. And no one
in my family ever said, oh, yeah, hey, by the way,
you've got this fucking piano playing, dude in your lineage.
Maybe there's some genetic material you're sharing there. He also
loves to travel all over the place, and I don't know,
there's just a lot of connections that I see in
my life to his life.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
For a man I never met Matt, I would love
to play the piano, right, that would be so great,
like beautiful, yeah, I mean just like and going that
fast too, like holy shit.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:23):
His record's pretty incredible. If you look the one that
I have is called a Handful of Keys. If you
look up Bobby Henderson or Robert Henderson in a Handful
of Keys, you'll find it. But yeah, it's it's just
an incredible weird detail, like much of this movie. So
this movie does leave a lot out, But it starts
in nineteen thirty six with Billie Holliday being booked into

(01:11:44):
jail and she strugs to funk. It is like paditsel
straight jacket. Totally wild situation. Then we cut back to
nineteen twenty eight and here's where the first weird moment
for me happens.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
And I've always thought this was.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
Strange because they don't hire a younger actress to play
a young Billie Holiday.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
They just have Diana Ross in.

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
Like braids, playing like a teenager. It's fucking wild.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
God right, Like I was like, how old is she
supposed to be here? I don't understand what's happening.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
I did not get it. I'm like, wait, there was
this was a choice. This was a real choice. And
you know, Barry Gordy and Diana Ross were married at
this time and he had his hands in producing, and
I'm sure it was a lot of like she is
the star, she can do it all. She cannot play
a fourteen year old while being a grown ass woman.
Most of us can't. Most of us cannot, yeah, exact,

(01:12:43):
but you know, you get to learn a little bit
about Billie Holliday's background. She was actually born Eleanora Fagan
golf Go, I think is how it's pronounced sometimes in
Philadelphia in nineteen fifteen, a city that is what unfuckable with.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
We do not fuck with Philadelphia. They will kill you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:01):
Don't mess with Philly, even when you're talking about people
who were born and raised there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Just keep it clean.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
Don't mess with Billy or Philly is what I do.

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
Mess No Billy, no Philly, No Billy, no Billy. Ah ah.
And she when we catch up with her, she's in Baltimore.
She's working in housekeeping at this house that's owned by
a madam and is full of sex workers. And she's,
you know, she's fourteen years old, and her mother clearly
works and lives in New York. She gets a letter

(01:13:29):
from her, and there's a horrible event that happens right
away where she's sexually assaulted by this like creepy pedophile,
drunk asshole who kind of comes into the you know,
this brothel and then decides to follow her home where
she's been left alone.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
It's just really terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
So Eleanora Billy basically travels from Baltimore to New York
to be with her mother after this this tragedy it's
happened to her, so we're not sure how she got there,
but she's kind of walking alone and her mom works
in this big house in the kitchen, and you know,
she offers her to stay the night, but you know

(01:14:07):
it's not her house. Her boss is coming home and
she clearly you know, this is back in the day
nineteen twenty eight, where people who worked in these houses
also had rooms of their own in or near the property,
but it wasn't like they had a whole house where
they could get their family. So she kind of, you know,
wanders out, and you know, her mom is like, well,
I can get you a job in a room in

(01:14:30):
another brothel.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
So that's what she does.

Speaker 3 (01:14:32):
So she stays in New York, gets a job, and
she fucking hates this job, which I also think is
very funny that from Jump Billie Holiday is like, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
Not want to do this.

Speaker 3 (01:14:41):
I do not want to scrub stairs or do any
of this shit. And she know, she wanders into a
night club across the street and she wants a job,
but they toss her out, but she sees Billy d Williams,
who's playing the character of Louis McKay, and she is
instantly enamored.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
Now here's another weird family connection.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
Grandmother. I will never forget this because we were we
were watching we were watching Star Wars and Lando Calrissian
comes on the screen. This is like, we had rented
the VHS and we're just watching it at home and

(01:15:21):
Billy d Williams comes on the screen and she goes, oh,
that's an annoying little boy that used to live around
the corner. I was like, I'm sorry, what what She's like, Oh, yeah, Billy,
we know him.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
He grew up around the corner. He was He just
annoyed us.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
He always wanted to be around, but we were, you know,
older and cooler and didn't want to be around around him.
And I'm like, are you telling me that you used
to like shun Lando Calrissian.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
This is what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
My family doesn't tell me shit. They don't tell me shit.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
Yeah, that is wat old stuff. Both stories that you've
revealed today in relation to Lady Sings and Blues have
been crazy. But like, oh yeah, we used to watch him,
you know, poop his pants on the playground and we
laughed and then we ran home. Yeah, what an annoying
little fucking kid. Oh it's just Billity Williams.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
Just billiony fucking Williams and she's they used to play
a game called Loady, which is where you take a
bottle cap and you fill it with wax and you
kind of shoot it into these like it's almost like
a small Hopscotch board, as it's been described to me,
it's like a small hopscotch board that they would draw
on the ground and chalk or something over the rock
and just try to shoot a bottle cap into it.
And she was like, yeah, he always used to try
to play loady with us, and like, madn't one of

(01:16:38):
those little kids hanging around.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
I'm like, what the fuck? Dude?

Speaker 1 (01:16:43):
God, it would be my dream to like just like
turn on the TV and be like, oh, here are
all the famous people that annoyed me as children. Yeah,
oh god, it's so funny.

Speaker 3 (01:16:57):
Well, if I apparently, if we'd ever watched this movie together,
I would have gotten my whole family fucking history at
one fell sort when I was a kid.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Who else she got something with Scatman? Is there he
like some Scatman connection or.

Speaker 3 (01:17:08):
Is he like my uncle, he's my godfather? What's going on?

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
Was Richard Bryor like, you know, bringing the Thanksgiving turkey?
Over every year, like, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
Whose?

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Who else are you related to?

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
In this film, Richard Pryor used to bring the swan's
ice cream. Ah, but it's a wild so billy billy.
Holiday sees Lewis McKay and it's just like enamored, and
she's like, I love this dude. She clearly starts doing
sex work at some point, and again there's this timeline

(01:17:41):
thing that happens in the movie where they don't actually
stop and give you any indication about how much time
has passed. But at some point she looks older, she
looks like she's a little bit more put together, and
she's clearly started doing sex work instead of cleaning at
this brothel that she's been working. Then she sees a
sign across the street in a club for a dancer,
and let me tell you, she cannot dance to save

(01:18:01):
her life. The scene is fucking hilarious. But she does
get a job as a singer, and she changes her
name to Billie Holiday on the spot the singer before her,
when during her first night, the singer before her is
like singing and then picking up tips on the edge
of the table with her chooch a Billy Holiday is like,
I am not doing that. I did not promise this,

(01:18:26):
by the way, I did not promise you flowers, and
I did not promise you that I could fucking pick.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Up bills with my chuuoch.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
So she's met her pianist, Richard Pryor at this point,
who's playing the character, you know, the piano man, and
he's like, just you know, the crowd is a little
bit vicious while she's not picking up these tips, so
he's just trying to play along and kind of but
he becomes like her friend, like he becomes someone she
can confide in and count on.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
So she's not picking up any of these tips, and
Hill Louis.

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
McKay gives her a fifty dollars bill directly from his hand,
and then everybody starts tipping her in the same demure
and respectful way, and he starts kind of wooing her.
You know, he has a club of his own, Cathay Manhattan,
and they kind of fall for each other, and he
sets her up and she starts to take off. So
part of her taking off is there these guys that

(01:19:24):
want her to sing in their band, the Red Handley Band,
and they're both white guys, and she decides to take
off on the road because she decides she has to
win over Middle America before she could make it big
in New York downtown, you know, be as big as
she wants to be. And that was really true back then,
but also very dangerous. You know, there's a scene where
the KKK is coming through a town and they're all

(01:19:44):
on the bus together and she's kind of, you know,
flipping out about the violence that they portray and what.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
She'd just seen.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
She'd just seen a lynching, and it's very dangerous for
her to be traveling with this band, or be traveling
at all, and her band isn't real Bill always very
responsive to that. I think they're kind to her and
not racist, but they kind of obviously, but they kind
of are not as responsible about putting her in places
where she's safe. And this really comes to a head
when one of her bandmates offers her morphine. So in

(01:20:14):
real life, Billy Holiday was addicted to opium and heroin,
and in the movie it's kind of portrayed as you know,
this bandmate was the first one to offer her something
to help her deal with life on the road, and
you know, Lewis comes to meet her on tour and
he can see clearly that she's on drugs and he

(01:20:34):
wants to take her home, but she doesn't want to go.
And again, we kind of have that thing with the
Rose where she needs to be out there. She wants
to be out there. She can't imagine not having the
life that she's built for herself, but she's also starting
to be in the throes of addiction and not able
to face that. I also think that there's a during
the scene where Lewis comes to see her for the

(01:20:56):
first time and the music is like it's too light
to me for some reason, Like it's almost like music,
and you cannot convince me that it was not the
inspiration for Cameron Crowe's scene and almost famous where Kate
Hudson is getting her stomach pumped to Stevie Wonder, Like,
can't convince me, I think because the music is so

(01:21:20):
light in the scene and like there was intense shit
is happening, and I'm like, yo, yeah, it's like anytime
that happens in a movie.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
I'm like, yo, what happened with this song? Now? I
can't even listen to the song without thinking it's like
in uh Boogie Nights. Whatever I hear, whenever I hear
like Sister Christian, I'm like, oh, all I can think
about is coked up Alfred Malina walking her like the
one of your crackers going off like.

Speaker 3 (01:21:49):
It is bonkers. So it's like, okay, this the tone is.
I get the tone being set here is trying to
mimic something between tenderness and something very fraught, but it
just comes across.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
Very strange to me. And eventually Billy's in the throws
of addiction and she's totally strung out, and Lewis kicks
her out and she eventually goes to rehab and Lewis
comes back in the picture and proposes, but she's arrested
for a narcotics use and loses her cabaret license so
she can't perform in New York anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:22:19):
And that's where we catch up to the beginning of
the movie, where she's been put in jail and it's
kind of going through withdrawals, and she eventually does get
a new agent who wants to send her on the
road and hopes that again if she can drum up
some crowds across America, that she can come back to
New York and they'll waive this felony charge or at
least be able to get her her cabaret license back,

(01:22:42):
and promises her that they can play Carnegie Hall if
she does well on the road. So she goes on
the road the piano Man, and as you can imagine,
the road is not a safe place for her to be.
She instantly falls back into drug use, and they kind
of rush the ending of the film. She does eventually
play Carnegie Hall, and then also gets arrested again a

(01:23:05):
couple more times and eventually does Very Young, Very Tragic
in nineteen fifty nine. So again, I think it's important.
I think that she was just one of the most
phenomenal singer's deeply troubled life. I think people tend to
focus on the legend of her, so I think we're

(01:23:29):
due for something that focuses on the humanity of her,
especially now that we culturally have taken a different, more
tender approach to people who suffer from addiction. But she
was absolutely doing something incredibly unique, beautiful and creating an
unbelievable art out of her pain at a time when
that was yeah, part of the blues tradition. But she

(01:23:52):
was doing something else with it. She was kind of
combining blues and jazz, and there was just a soulfulness
to her that I think is heartbreaking to this day
to hear her voice, she just brings something heartbreaking out.
So yeah, there are definitely some things in the film
that breeze over parts of her life or kind of
emphasize strange things in her life. But I think it

(01:24:12):
really does fit well with this theme of you know, again,
women who are not protected. And you know, she marries
Louis McKay and and the you know eventually makes it.
You know, she makes this decision like I'm going to
stay at home and I'm going to be married to you.
But then within a couple of months it's like, no,
I got it, sing like I can't be this person.
So I think there's there's something that is really I

(01:24:34):
feel like I'm part of a tradition of women artists
who have had to make a choice about between their
life and their creativity. And it feels kind of interesting
to see how these issues have played women who create
for most of time. But yeah, I feel like really
good about the movies that we picked this week. They're

(01:24:55):
both very very interesting a bit of a bummer double feature,
but I think it's worth looking at the ways that
women are portrayed on film, how much of their lives
are disjointed because they cannot please everyone, how men come
in and kind of dismantle some of the spirit of

(01:25:15):
what they're doing, and how people really just are not
protecting some of these creators.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Yeah. Yeah, like you said, it was a bit heavy
this week, but ultimately, like two really important movies, I
feel like, you know, maybe if you do take a
break between them, that would be okay because watching them
back to back. Yeah, Plus they are both kind of
long too, so yeah, I know, it's like it's.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
A full Saturday afternoon.

Speaker 3 (01:25:43):
You should throw some King of the Hill or Beavis
and butt Hen in between there.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
Yeah, just listen to some of Danielle's great grandfather. Just
go out and maybe to point your speakers outside of
your window and try to get a kid from across
the streets like you.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
This is what I'm saying. I'm up there blasting Charles
mink Is out of my fucking window. My grandmother never
once stops and things to say. You know, your great
grandfather played jazz fucking piano. Maybe you should try to
capture this kid with that snatch him up with your
personal connection to it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
Exactly well, I expect that you're going to write all
about this anyway, like I think you should write both stories,
both about Billy d And and Billie Holiday all the Billies.
Just write like a Billy Billy article.

Speaker 3 (01:26:31):
For Billie Billy Compendium from the New Worker.

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
Exactly well. Listen, everybody, if you want to email us,
we are at I Saw you Pot at gmail dot com.
Of course, we also have a po box two if
you want to send us mail, and.

Speaker 3 (01:26:48):
You can find that address and more if you follow
us on social media, we are at I Saw Pot
on Instagram, Blue Sky and Twitter.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
You can also leave us a voicemail to play on
the show. Now, all you have to do is record.

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
A voice memo on your phone and email it to
you I Saw what you did pot at gmail dot com.
Please make it sixty seconds or less, and please record
it in a quiet space.

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
Absolutely. We also have Birch go to exactly right store
dot com if you want it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:13):
And you know, we drop a new bonus episode the
third Thursday of every month right in your main feed.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
Millie, I'm dancing I'm dancing.

Speaker 3 (01:27:23):
At next I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
Saw the theme for next week. I just sit do it.
I'm doing a little ragtime piano dance cuz you are
you fucking ready for this shit? Okay? Can I say
the movies? Can I say them?

Speaker 2 (01:27:43):
Please?

Speaker 3 (01:27:44):
Say them?

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
Because I can't stop laughing.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
Okay, Your films for next week, people are The Raid
Redemption from twenty eleven and John Wick from twenty four.
Oh my god, Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
Guess the theme.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
Try to guess the theme?

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
Try, Oh my god. I am so excited for next week.
Danielle as always a fucking pleasure to join this podcast
with you. You're the best.

Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
Hey, God, damn love it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
See you next work.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
This has been an exactly right production.

Speaker 3 (01:28:29):
Our senior producer is Casey O'Brien. Episode mixing and theme
music by Tom Bryfogel, artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive
producers are Georgia hart Start, Karen kile Gareff, and Daniel Kramer.
You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at I
Saw Pod, and you can email us at I Saw
What You Did Pod at gmail

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I Saw What You Did - No Billie No Philly

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