July 8, 2025 • 16 mins
This week we’re checking in with Jennifer, who caught her fiance flirting with an ex-girlfriend on Instagram, to hear how she’s doing one year later.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should
Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice
column for the Atlantic.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,
and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.
And this is Dear Therapists. This week we're going to
check in on our guests from season two to hear
how they're doing a year later.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
First, a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.
It does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is
not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
In the sessions you'll hear, all names have been changed
for the privacy of our guests. So today we're catching
up with Jennifer and Jennifer's episode was called Jennifer's Fiance's
(00:47):
Instagram Flirtations. Jennifer had caught her fiance messaging other women
inappropriately on Instagram, and she felt stuck about how to
address this with him. She also had a son from
a previous marriage and her fiance had kids as well,
and they were trying to blend the families. But she
was in a financially insecure position, and she worried that
she was dependent on her fiance and therefore had little recourse,
(01:11):
and her narrative throughout was very passive. The way she
told her story made it seem like things just happened
to her and that she had no agency in any
of the things that were going on in her life,
and that made her feel helpless. And so we helped
her to see how her own narrative about her life
was keeping her in the passenger seat and preventing her
from really taking charge of her decisions. And here's a
(01:34):
reminder of what was going on.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Part of me's scared to find out if there's anything
else that I don't know about. I'm scared to discover
another lie because I feel like if there was another lie,
that that would be the deal breaker. And then it's
like all these kids, all these kids are involved. I
guess a part of me is scared if his true
feelings came out, like, yeah, I love you, but I'm
(01:57):
not in love. I feel so powerless in a way
because of my financial situation. I feel like if I
did uncover that this wasn't something that I ultimately wanted,
I'm suck.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
You're listening to dea therapists. We'll be back after a
short break, So now let's hear how Jennifer's doing a
year later.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Hi, Laurie and Guy, this is Jennifer calling in to
give an update about how my year has been since
our session about my relationship with Dan. At this point,
we are doing really well, better than ever actually, and
are still aiming to get married next October, we hope.
(02:54):
But it got worse before it got better. I will
say he did another one of his I think we'd
be better off living separately, raising our kids separately. Splitting
up move last April or so, and it was the
worst that it had been. Didn't vacillate and it got
(03:16):
to the point to where we told the kids. My
son in particular was sad. It was the worst day
of my life telling my son. But in true character
to Dan a week or so later, reneged on it
and you know, wanted to really work things out, and
(03:38):
at that point it was ultimate ultimatum time for me
and I put us immediately into therapy and it has
been really great. It was kind of me dragging him,
kicking and screaming, but he was very willing to do
it to keep me, and I've seen a big change
in him through the therapy process, and it really was
(03:59):
the first time that I really saw that he was
able to get his true emotions out. There was some anger,
some grievance about the loss of his identity and how
fast we had a child, and his post divorce stress
and his life being taken over all of a sudden
by a brand new family, and that was really at
the root of everything that was going on, And it
(04:23):
gave me an opportunity to express how serious and deeply
wounded I was with the vacillation in him and just
laying out that I absolutely am not going to tolerate that,
that this was the last chance. And through the end
of it, he has convinced me that he is over
(04:48):
the grief that he felt and he wants this with us.
He had really good insight when I went away for
a few weekends that he knows that he does not
want to be alone and how much he loves me,
he wants our family. So I trust him. We're in
a good place. I'd be lying if I said I'm
(05:09):
one hundred percent trusting. I'm still there's still like a
five to ten percent part of me that wonders if
we're ever really going to get married and if the
rug will get pulled out. But we have set ourselves
on a good path with a therapy, and I believe
we have the communication tools through that to keep us solid.
(05:31):
It's really helped a lot.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
But I would say the couple.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Pieces of advice that I got from the session with
you guys were One was part of the homework assignment,
which was to get into the driver's seat with the
narrative of my life. And that's just been something that
I've been trying to live by when big decisions come up,
and just thinking about myself more in an empowered place
(05:57):
versus a victim to my circumstance. It's his place, and
it's really helped me to goal set and think about
a vision for my life for myself. I remember Laurie saying,
no matter what happens, I have always been able to
land on my feet. I'm supported and I will be
able to do that again. So that kind of gave
(06:19):
me the strength and the resolve to when we did
go through that break up last April, I felt sure
that I was going to leave, that I was not
going to tolerate it, and it just set me on
a path of determination to turn my life around and
empower myself even more. And then something that guy said
that really caught me was he said, well, you know,
(06:43):
maybe you could get what you want from Dan, but
you have to ask for it and you have to
be clear. That really stuck with me too, about how
much I kind of defer in my relationships, and it's
helped me clarify with Dan what my needs are, what
I'm looking for in the relationship, and speak from a
(07:03):
place of my own wants and needs. So it was
really just kind of like a turning point, a stepping
stone for me. That session of bringing everything to light
and moving things in motion and just having a bit
of outside support for my situation. It just kind of
propelled me into an empowered place. And I finished my
(07:25):
computer class that I had been working on throughout the year,
and I got myself a new job. I have left
the cleaning business and I'm going to be working for
a software development company and I'm really excited and spoke
about my long term vision there and the hopes of
becoming a web developer designer someday. So I got an
(07:48):
entry level position, and I'm super excited, and I know
that this is going to give me the stability in
myself that if things do go sideways with Dan, that
I have a place of security to stand on financially.
So I just really want to thank you guys. It's
been an amazing year and just having this point of
(08:10):
reflection with you guys to just kind of brings it
full circle. I appreciate everything you do, so thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So I was really glad to hear Jennifer's update, and
I also have some concerns about her update. The glad
part was she definitely does seem to be in the
driver's seat. She's making decisions for herself, she's moving her
own life forward. She's having a vision for a professional
life in the kind of place where she can actually
develop a career. That sounds great. The part I'm concerned
(08:43):
about is the fact that there was yet another big
incident with Dan about him breaking up. I don't know
the number of this one, but you know there've been
quite a few. And while she's right to say, well,
but we're in couple's therapy, he's being able to express
himself much more will now and vent some feelings, so
he's perhaps less likely to act out by trying to
(09:05):
break up when he feels overwhelmed. I don't know where
he is along the learning curve, and that was quite
a consistent habit he had of feeling overwhelmed and reacting
to it by breaking up. She did say to him
that that was the absolutely last time. I do believe
her that that was the absolute last time, primarily because
she doesn't want to go through this with her son
(09:26):
yet another time. If it's going to be another breakup,
this will be the last time. I think she puts
her son through that with this particular person. But my
hope is that she is strong enough that if she
needs to break it off and move on, that she
would do so well.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I sure both parts of what you said, but maybe
a little bit differently. I'm really glad that she has
decided she's going to be in the driver's seat. When
she looked back on her life even before Dan, it
was sort of like all these things just happened to her.
And so now she's saying, wait a minute, I do
have agency. And I love what she did by really
moving forward and taking action and saying I need to
(10:03):
be able to stand on my own two feet. I
also have this interest in web design, and so I'm
going to take a computer class. I'm going to get
a job at a software company, and that's going to
put me on the path to becoming a web developer,
and that will give me more freedom because I won't
be so dependent financially on another person. The other part
of it is, though, that the breakup also concerned me
(10:24):
the fact that when Dan gets flooded or overwhelmed or
doesn't know what to do with his emotions, he breaks
up with her. And this one was, I think the
first time that they shared it with her son too,
so it also had an effect on the Sun. But
I was very glad to hear that. Her response to
that was, we're going to couple's therapy. And he didn't
seem to want to go and said I dragged him there,
(10:47):
but he went and what came out there were some
of the things that he wasn't able to share before,
things like I was still dealing with just getting out
of my divorce. It was very soon. I wasn't expecting
to have another child so soon, and really being able
to talk about what was motivating these kind of panics
that he would have, so I think that that's a
(11:09):
good sign that they're in therapy and doing that. I
agree with you that she trusts him at this point
more than maybe you and I do, And of course
we don't know him, but just hearing her story, it
seemed like when they talked about the Instagram incidents, he
wasn't really able to take responsibility for them back then,
And I don't know if he is now that they're
(11:31):
in therapy, but that's going to be really important in
terms of rebuilding their trust. Does he acknowledge that what
he did was crossing a line in their marriage instead
of making excuses for it or saying I'm sorry that
you were hurt by this, as opposed to I'm sorry
that I betrayed your trust. I'm sorry I did something wrong.
So I think that's going to be really important.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yes, I agree, we are more concerned than she is.
If I recall correctly, they had discussed going to couple's
therapy year ago, and he was all on board. He
wanted to do it before they were married, and yet
he didn't and then had to break up, and then
she had to drag him to it afterwards. So I
think he's someone who wants to do certain things but
is not in touch with himself, so that when the
(12:15):
moment happens, he kind of still acts out. And whether
this release valve of therapy will be enough to prevent
the acting out, that's the question mark which we don't
really know and maybe can't know until we hear another
update from Jennifer at some point. I think that without
therapy I would have been much more pessimistic. There is
a chance that with therapy he will be able to
find a different way to cope.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
Well.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I think the most optimistic thing here is that once
she realized that she would be okay if she left,
she started setting boundaries. She started speaking up. She started
saying this is what I need, this is what we need.
And she wasn't able to do that before because she thought,
if I rock the boat, I don't know what I
will do. I don't know how I will support my son.
His quality of life will change drastically. It'll be very
(12:58):
difficult both for me for my son, and my son
is very happy in this situation. I think there was
a lot going on in terms of the calculation she
was making, and now she doesn't have to make that
same calculation and that frees her up to say this
is okay, this is not okay. If we re establish trust,
then I want to be in this. But if we can't,
(13:20):
it's going to be okay, and I will find that
with someone else.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yes, I think that change for Jennifer was absolutely huge.
She went from being such a passenger to being such
a driver in her own life and feeling very empowered
as well all around, and that I think is the
biggest news of this year that that really continued and
(13:44):
grew and she really does feel out, this is my life.
I'm going to make these decisions. She did set of
boundary with him. I believe she will follow through with
it if he doesn't improve sufficiently or has another breakup effort.
Jennifer got in the driver's seat a year ago and
she is very much in it.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
And part of being in the driver's seat is making
sure that she doesn't compartmentalize some of the things that
would raise red flags. For example, when Dan came back
to her, he said, I don't want to be alone,
and that was his reason for coming back. Now maybe
he said more and we're just not hearing it, but
I don't want to be alone. Is not a reason
(14:21):
to come back, So we'd want her to really get
clear with him about why do you want to be
with me in this relationship? What made you come back,
what makes you want to be here, what makes you
want to stay? And if he isn't sure about those things,
that's something that they really need to explore in therapy
(14:41):
and maybe even for him and some individual therapy.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
So I'm very glad that they are in therapy because
that's a great place for them to continue having these
really important discussions. Next week, we're in session with Kate,
who wants to break free from her people pleasing tendencies.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Even guiltier for leaving. I was in this impossible position
of trying to split up my time between my brother
and his family and my mom, and neither side would
be happy with the amount of time spent with them.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for
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help people to find the show.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with
us email, us at Laurie and Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.
Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited
by Josh Fisher. Additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John
Washington and Zachary Fisher. Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily
(15:51):
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at our next session. Theotherapist is a production of iHeartRadio
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Fission Food
I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should
Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice
column for the Atlantic.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,
and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.
And this is Dear Therapists. This week we're going to
check in on our guests from season two to hear
how they're doing a year later.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
First, a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.
It does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is
not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
In the sessions you'll hear, all names have been changed
for the privacy of our guests. So today we're catching
up with Jennifer and Jennifer's episode was called Jennifer's Fiance's
(00:47):
Instagram Flirtations. Jennifer had caught her fiance messaging other women
inappropriately on Instagram, and she felt stuck about how to
address this with him. She also had a son from
a previous marriage and her fiance had kids as well,
and they were trying to blend the families. But she
was in a financially insecure position, and she worried that
she was dependent on her fiance and therefore had little recourse,
(01:11):
and her narrative throughout was very passive. The way she
told her story made it seem like things just happened
to her and that she had no agency in any
of the things that were going on in her life,
and that made her feel helpless. And so we helped
her to see how her own narrative about her life
was keeping her in the passenger seat and preventing her
from really taking charge of her decisions. And here's a
(01:34):
reminder of what was going on.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Part of me's scared to find out if there's anything
else that I don't know about. I'm scared to discover
another lie because I feel like if there was another lie,
that that would be the deal breaker. And then it's
like all these kids, all these kids are involved. I
guess a part of me is scared if his true
feelings came out, like, yeah, I love you, but I'm
(01:57):
not in love. I feel so powerless in a way
because of my financial situation. I feel like if I
did uncover that this wasn't something that I ultimately wanted,
I'm suck.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
You're listening to dea therapists. We'll be back after a
short break, So now let's hear how Jennifer's doing a
year later.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Hi, Laurie and Guy, this is Jennifer calling in to
give an update about how my year has been since
our session about my relationship with Dan. At this point,
we are doing really well, better than ever actually, and
are still aiming to get married next October, we hope.
(02:54):
But it got worse before it got better. I will
say he did another one of his I think we'd
be better off living separately, raising our kids separately. Splitting
up move last April or so, and it was the
worst that it had been. Didn't vacillate and it got
(03:16):
to the point to where we told the kids. My
son in particular was sad. It was the worst day
of my life telling my son. But in true character
to Dan a week or so later, reneged on it
and you know, wanted to really work things out, and
(03:38):
at that point it was ultimate ultimatum time for me
and I put us immediately into therapy and it has
been really great. It was kind of me dragging him,
kicking and screaming, but he was very willing to do
it to keep me, and I've seen a big change
in him through the therapy process, and it really was
(03:59):
the first time that I really saw that he was
able to get his true emotions out. There was some anger,
some grievance about the loss of his identity and how
fast we had a child, and his post divorce stress
and his life being taken over all of a sudden
by a brand new family, and that was really at
the root of everything that was going on, And it
(04:23):
gave me an opportunity to express how serious and deeply
wounded I was with the vacillation in him and just
laying out that I absolutely am not going to tolerate that,
that this was the last chance. And through the end
of it, he has convinced me that he is over
(04:48):
the grief that he felt and he wants this with us.
He had really good insight when I went away for
a few weekends that he knows that he does not
want to be alone and how much he loves me,
he wants our family. So I trust him. We're in
a good place. I'd be lying if I said I'm
(05:09):
one hundred percent trusting. I'm still there's still like a
five to ten percent part of me that wonders if
we're ever really going to get married and if the
rug will get pulled out. But we have set ourselves
on a good path with a therapy, and I believe
we have the communication tools through that to keep us solid.
(05:31):
It's really helped a lot.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
But I would say the couple.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Pieces of advice that I got from the session with
you guys were One was part of the homework assignment,
which was to get into the driver's seat with the
narrative of my life. And that's just been something that
I've been trying to live by when big decisions come up,
and just thinking about myself more in an empowered place
(05:57):
versus a victim to my circumstance. It's his place, and
it's really helped me to goal set and think about
a vision for my life for myself. I remember Laurie saying,
no matter what happens, I have always been able to
land on my feet. I'm supported and I will be
able to do that again. So that kind of gave
(06:19):
me the strength and the resolve to when we did
go through that break up last April, I felt sure
that I was going to leave, that I was not
going to tolerate it, and it just set me on
a path of determination to turn my life around and
empower myself even more. And then something that guy said
that really caught me was he said, well, you know,
(06:43):
maybe you could get what you want from Dan, but
you have to ask for it and you have to
be clear. That really stuck with me too, about how
much I kind of defer in my relationships, and it's
helped me clarify with Dan what my needs are, what
I'm looking for in the relationship, and speak from a
(07:03):
place of my own wants and needs. So it was
really just kind of like a turning point, a stepping
stone for me. That session of bringing everything to light
and moving things in motion and just having a bit
of outside support for my situation. It just kind of
propelled me into an empowered place. And I finished my
(07:25):
computer class that I had been working on throughout the year,
and I got myself a new job. I have left
the cleaning business and I'm going to be working for
a software development company and I'm really excited and spoke
about my long term vision there and the hopes of
becoming a web developer designer someday. So I got an
(07:48):
entry level position, and I'm super excited, and I know
that this is going to give me the stability in
myself that if things do go sideways with Dan, that
I have a place of security to stand on financially.
So I just really want to thank you guys. It's
been an amazing year and just having this point of
(08:10):
reflection with you guys to just kind of brings it
full circle. I appreciate everything you do, so thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So I was really glad to hear Jennifer's update, and
I also have some concerns about her update. The glad
part was she definitely does seem to be in the
driver's seat. She's making decisions for herself, she's moving her
own life forward. She's having a vision for a professional
life in the kind of place where she can actually
develop a career. That sounds great. The part I'm concerned
(08:43):
about is the fact that there was yet another big
incident with Dan about him breaking up. I don't know
the number of this one, but you know there've been
quite a few. And while she's right to say, well,
but we're in couple's therapy, he's being able to express
himself much more will now and vent some feelings, so
he's perhaps less likely to act out by trying to
(09:05):
break up when he feels overwhelmed. I don't know where
he is along the learning curve, and that was quite
a consistent habit he had of feeling overwhelmed and reacting
to it by breaking up. She did say to him
that that was the absolutely last time. I do believe
her that that was the absolute last time, primarily because
she doesn't want to go through this with her son
(09:26):
yet another time. If it's going to be another breakup,
this will be the last time. I think she puts
her son through that with this particular person. But my
hope is that she is strong enough that if she
needs to break it off and move on, that she
would do so well.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I sure both parts of what you said, but maybe
a little bit differently. I'm really glad that she has
decided she's going to be in the driver's seat. When
she looked back on her life even before Dan, it
was sort of like all these things just happened to her.
And so now she's saying, wait a minute, I do
have agency. And I love what she did by really
moving forward and taking action and saying I need to
(10:03):
be able to stand on my own two feet. I
also have this interest in web design, and so I'm
going to take a computer class. I'm going to get
a job at a software company, and that's going to
put me on the path to becoming a web developer,
and that will give me more freedom because I won't
be so dependent financially on another person. The other part
of it is, though, that the breakup also concerned me
(10:24):
the fact that when Dan gets flooded or overwhelmed or
doesn't know what to do with his emotions, he breaks
up with her. And this one was, I think the
first time that they shared it with her son too,
so it also had an effect on the Sun. But
I was very glad to hear that. Her response to
that was, we're going to couple's therapy. And he didn't
seem to want to go and said I dragged him there,
(10:47):
but he went and what came out there were some
of the things that he wasn't able to share before,
things like I was still dealing with just getting out
of my divorce. It was very soon. I wasn't expecting
to have another child so soon, and really being able
to talk about what was motivating these kind of panics
that he would have, so I think that that's a
(11:09):
good sign that they're in therapy and doing that. I
agree with you that she trusts him at this point
more than maybe you and I do, And of course
we don't know him, but just hearing her story, it
seemed like when they talked about the Instagram incidents, he
wasn't really able to take responsibility for them back then,
And I don't know if he is now that they're
(11:31):
in therapy, but that's going to be really important in
terms of rebuilding their trust. Does he acknowledge that what
he did was crossing a line in their marriage instead
of making excuses for it or saying I'm sorry that
you were hurt by this, as opposed to I'm sorry
that I betrayed your trust. I'm sorry I did something wrong.
So I think that's going to be really important.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yes, I agree, we are more concerned than she is.
If I recall correctly, they had discussed going to couple's
therapy year ago, and he was all on board. He
wanted to do it before they were married, and yet
he didn't and then had to break up, and then
she had to drag him to it afterwards. So I
think he's someone who wants to do certain things but
is not in touch with himself, so that when the
(12:15):
moment happens, he kind of still acts out. And whether
this release valve of therapy will be enough to prevent
the acting out, that's the question mark which we don't
really know and maybe can't know until we hear another
update from Jennifer at some point. I think that without
therapy I would have been much more pessimistic. There is
a chance that with therapy he will be able to
find a different way to cope.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
Well.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
I think the most optimistic thing here is that once
she realized that she would be okay if she left,
she started setting boundaries. She started speaking up. She started
saying this is what I need, this is what we need.
And she wasn't able to do that before because she thought,
if I rock the boat, I don't know what I
will do. I don't know how I will support my son.
His quality of life will change drastically. It'll be very
(12:58):
difficult both for me for my son, and my son
is very happy in this situation. I think there was
a lot going on in terms of the calculation she
was making, and now she doesn't have to make that
same calculation and that frees her up to say this
is okay, this is not okay. If we re establish trust,
then I want to be in this. But if we can't,
(13:20):
it's going to be okay, and I will find that
with someone else.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Yes, I think that change for Jennifer was absolutely huge.
She went from being such a passenger to being such
a driver in her own life and feeling very empowered
as well all around, and that I think is the
biggest news of this year that that really continued and
(13:44):
grew and she really does feel out, this is my life.
I'm going to make these decisions. She did set of
boundary with him. I believe she will follow through with
it if he doesn't improve sufficiently or has another breakup effort.
Jennifer got in the driver's seat a year ago and
she is very much in it.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
And part of being in the driver's seat is making
sure that she doesn't compartmentalize some of the things that
would raise red flags. For example, when Dan came back
to her, he said, I don't want to be alone,
and that was his reason for coming back. Now maybe
he said more and we're just not hearing it, but
I don't want to be alone. Is not a reason
(14:21):
to come back, So we'd want her to really get
clear with him about why do you want to be
with me in this relationship? What made you come back,
what makes you want to be here, what makes you
want to stay? And if he isn't sure about those things,
that's something that they really need to explore in therapy
(14:41):
and maybe even for him and some individual therapy.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
So I'm very glad that they are in therapy because
that's a great place for them to continue having these
really important discussions. Next week, we're in session with Kate,
who wants to break free from her people pleasing tendencies.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
Even guiltier for leaving. I was in this impossible position
of trying to split up my time between my brother
and his family and my mom, and neither side would
be happy with the amount of time spent with them.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for
free so that you don't miss any episodes, and please
help support Dear Therapists by telling your friends about it
and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really
help people to find the show.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with
us email, us at Laurie and Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.
Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited
by Josh Fisher. Additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John
Washington and Zachary Fisher. Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily
(15:51):
Gutierrez and Silva Lifton. And special thanks to our podcast
Fairy Godmother Katie Curic. You can't wait to see you
at our next session. Theotherapist is a production of iHeartRadio
Speaker 5 (16:08):
Fission Food
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