Paul’s Inappropriate Boss One Year Later

This week we’re checking in with Paul, who struggled to set boundaries with his boss, to hear how he’s doing one year later. 

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should
Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice
column for the Atlantic. And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the
author of Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear
Guy advice column for Ted. And this is Dear Therapists.
This week, we're going to check in on a guest
from season two to hear how they're doing a year later. First,

(00:25):
a quick note, Dear Therapists is for informational purposes only,
does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is not
a substitute for professional health care advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional,
or other qualified health provider with any questions you may
have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,

(00:47):
you are agreeing to let I help Media use it
in part or in full, and we may edit it
for length and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear, all
names have been changed for the privacy of our guests. Today,
we're going to check in with Paul. Paul's episode was
called Paul's Inappropriate Boss, and the story was that Paul
worked in the library with Sharon, his boss, and she

(01:10):
would text him after work hours, all kinds of late
hours of the night, even though Paul asked her not
to do it and to respect his private time. She
would also delegate her own responsibilities to him but not
credit him for handling them, and she would violate his
boundaries in other ways. Now, Paul tried setting limits with Sharon,
but he felt she wasn't respecting those limits, and since

(01:30):
she was his boss, he also felt powerless as to
what else he could do as a subordinate without risking
his job or opportunities for advancement. Sharon Aciety enjoyed being
a librarian. He just wasn't sure what path to take
given his current situation. So let's get a reminder from
that session. Sharon, for example, I kind of went back
into that situation where you know, just by her walking in,

(01:53):
I'd be able to tell by the look on her
face if she was going to be crowdy all day.
She would kind of contact me outside of work to
keep that conversation going. I would just see my phone
light up and be a text message, and I said, hey,
if this is work related and I'm not at work,
I really would like if you could just email me instead.
She didn't really do that. So I think generally it's

(02:15):
just this predisposition to being so into and in tune
with people and then modifying my behavior to make sure
that I'm not making them angry and anything. That also
goes along with why I have so much difficulty with
like the second guessing kind of thing, where if I
do set a boundary, I think to myself, am I
being mean? Is this you know? Am I presenting it
in the wrong way? Is it reasonable? Yeah? Exactly. You're

(02:40):
listening to Dear Therapists from my Heart Radio. We'll be
back after a short break, so let's see how Paul
is doing a year later. Hey Laurie, Hey guy, it's Paul,

(03:03):
and I'm calling to update you about how things have
been since I was on the show. So since being on,
I'd say that my level of stress and anxiety around
work and working with Sharon has come down almost to
the point of being non existent. Of course, there's periods
of time when that's not the case, but I've gotten
a lot better at figuring out how to set boundaries
to make my day a little bit easier. I've continued
to read a lot about boundaries and mental health and

(03:24):
spend a lot of time sharing content from the mental
health community on Instagram, including the content from you, Laurie
and Guy. And I've really enjoyed how many of my
friends have been sharing the same content and initiating conversations
with me about boundaries. So the issues I had when
we talked are nearly gone at this point, and I
feel completely different about the situation than I did when
we first talked. Like Laurie said, Sharon tried to slip

(03:47):
text in every now and again after our conversation, so
I reminded her, usually in person when we were back
in the office, that I wouldn't respond to messages when
I'm off work. Eventually she stopped and would mention to
me how she wanted to send me something over the
weekend but decided she shouldn't because she didn't want to
bother me during my time off. So it seems like
she did actually understand what I was asking for when

(04:08):
we had our conversation about not talking outside of work.
There's actually some changes coming up, and Sharon is not
going to be my boss anymore after next month, so
I think the dynamic is going to continue to change
for the better. As a result of our conversation, I've
gotten so much better at understanding and being aware of
how much control I actually have in every relationship. I've

(04:29):
been able to accept that I can't control others, and
I can use what I know about people or what
I might anticipate they will do to help me make
better choices about how I want to handle things. So
because of that, I feel a lot less responsible for
how others respond to me and a lot more responsible
for doing what's best for me. Since I don't get
much fulfillment from the relationships I have with people at work,
I've made it a point to make some new friends

(04:50):
and set up recurring called some people I really enjoy,
so that's helped me make up for what I don't
get when I'm in the office. This situation I experienced
was pretty difficult for me, but what's come amount of
it has been great. I feel like my relationships have
become so much better, and I'm better able to recognize
people who are good for me to be around. The
most important thing I realized was how much my mindset

(05:11):
was the same was it was when I was younger
and had no choice about to be obedient, even if
it was harmful to me. Listening back to the podcast
episode is actually a little scary to see how much
we can imprison ourselves based on what we think and
how I thought that there wasn't anything I can do
to make my situation better. Knowing how much control I
do actually have incredibly important, because it's true in every

(05:32):
relationship I have, and there are very few circumstances where
anyone can be a hundred percent stock. I've taken what
I've learned from our conversation. I've applied it to all
of my relationships. I feel so much more comfortable having
and expressing what I need, and when people show me
that they can or won't follow what I'm asking for,
I adjust my mindset expectations accordingly. Of course, it's still

(05:54):
disappointing when I find that someone is unable to respect
my boundaries, but the reality is that everyone's not from
and I'm not for everyone, so it's okay to not
expect that everyone can and will be able to respect
my boundaries. All this time later, and I'm still really
grateful for the conversation that we had. Each time I've
listened to the podcast again, I've heard another layer of
kindness and compassion from you both, and I really appreciate

(06:16):
having had you both to encourage me. I think my
conversation with Sharon gave me permission to set boundaries everywhere
in my life, and it only gets easier each time.
For anyone listening, I really want them to know that
I can seem really hard and scary to advocate for
yourself when no one around you who's ever respected your boundaries,
but you can still set them, and you really should
be proud of yourself when you do, no matter the

(06:36):
response you get. What I love about hearing from people
a year later is that we know what happened the
week after we had a session with them, and usually
there's some progress that's made, but a year later you
can really see how the session has impacted their life

(06:57):
in a much more global way. And I love what
Paul said about how when he started setting boundaries at work,
it translated to other areas of his life and now
he applies it to all of his relationships. And I
think the other important thing is that he was able
to see from our conversation the connection between his inability

(07:20):
to set boundaries as a child and that feeling of
helplessness and then not being able to do that as
an adult and realizing that he is free to do
that now. He isn't shackled in that way. And I
think when people make those connections, that's the first step
in really setting themselves free and being able to set
expectations for what they want in their relationships. I completely agree,

(07:43):
and I think after a year you can see not
just what he understood and is applying, but what he
really internalized. And what he's internalized is the message here
that boundaries are a statement about what you won't accept,
not about what the other person should do. And that
helps you because you can only be responsible for setting

(08:03):
the boundary, not for whether they listen to it. You
might have to keep setting it. And he really got that,
and it sounds like he doesn't get triggered when that
happens occasionally with Sharon anymore. He very calm about it
because he understands that's not a reflection on him. That
he'll just repeat the boundary. And then sure enough she
actually comes to him and says, at some point, oh,

(08:25):
I was gonna text you, but I didn't because I
know you don't like it. So there's the proof of
the pudding that he really got it, and he was
so consistent that she finally got it. And what he
did so beautifully was he maintained the boundary. I think
a lot of people feel like, if I set the
boundary and then the other person violates my boundary, then
the boundary has failed. And what people start to discover

(08:46):
about boundaries is that they need to be maintained. That
simply and clearly. You need to repeat the boundary, often
for quite a while in the beginning, until the person
really gets it. And it sounds like even when Sharon
tested those boundaries, he was able to stay clear about
what his boundary was. And I know that a lot
of our listeners have issues with boundaries, a because we

(09:07):
hear from them about that, and be because given no work,
we know that a lot of people have trouble setting boundaries.
And again, the typical mistake is they might set the boundary,
but then they don't maintain it. What we're hearing from
Paul is that once he learned to do it in
one domain, in one relationship, he's been able to do
it in others. And I think the tip for our
listeners here is that this is a skill set if

(09:29):
you need to develop it, start with the easiest people
with whom you can set the boundary and maintain it.
And once you've acquired the skill set and see that
it works despite the emotional discomfort of having to repeatedly
set the boundary, that gives you more confidence to than
apply it in other relationships. And what Paul said is
really important that it can be scary to set boundaries,

(09:50):
especially in the beginning, if you haven't had the experience
of people respecting your wants or your needs earlier in life.
And I'm so glad that he acknowledged that, because think
that a lot of people feel like, well, what's wrong
with me that I'm so scared to set a boundary?
And I think you see with Paul, he was afraid,
he pushed through and it really worked out well for him.

(10:10):
So I hope that listeners will go back and listen
to the episode Paul's Inappropriate Boss here where he was
back then and learned something about themselves and how they
can set boundaries from Paul's experience. And it's funny because
Paul said, when I re listened to the episode, I
learned something new. Each time there's a new layer that
he discovers, and I think our listeners will have the

(10:31):
same experience. But Laurie, I want to tell you something.
I listened to one of our episodes a few days
ago from last season, and I heard new layers and
some of the things that you were saying. In other words,
you can't attend to all the information all at once.
Every time you listen, you learn something. These are episodes
that are worth really listening to, especially if you have
some kind of issue, some kind of difficulty in that

(10:54):
similar domain. Next week, a woman who has elaborate revenge
fantasies about the people in her life wants to understand
why she does this and how she can stop. I
have no training and how to have a positive conversation.
I think it feels shameful as a grown woman that

(11:15):
I can't defend myself, and so I chake all about
her and channel it towards these letters. If you're enjoying
our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for free so that
you don't miss any episodes, And please help support Dear
Therapists by telling your friends about it and leaving a
review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really help people to

(11:35):
find the show. If you have a dilemma you'd like
to discuss with us, email us at Lorie and Guy
at I heart media dot com. Our executive producer is
Noel Brown. We have produced and edited by Josh Fisher,
additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John Washington and Zachary Fisher.

(11:55):
Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily Gucierres and Silver Lifton
and special thanks to our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Curic.
You can't wait to see you at our next session.
The Atherrapist is a production of I Heart Radio Fisher

(12:15):
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