March 13, 2025 • 62 mins
In this soul-nourishing episode of the Deeply Well Podcast, Devi sits down with the radiant Nicole Russell-Wharton — a certified trauma-informed healing instructor whose work has been rooted in compassion, advocacy, and generational restoration. Together, we explore the sacred work of healing family legacies — the kind of healing that requires us to face the silences we've inherited and honor the stories that were never told.
Nicole shares her powerful journey supporting children in foster care and reminds us how deeply transformative it can be when we create space for young people to feel seen, heard, and whole. We talk about the importance of tracing our lineage — not just to understand where we come from, but to reconnect with the wisdom, the pain, and the resilience our ancestors carried.
This conversation moves gently through the layers of forgiveness, chronic illness, and health awareness — all parts of the healing process. We reflect on the beauty of documenting our stories and reclaiming our narratives so future generations can move forward with clarity and wholeness.
If you've ever felt the weight of unspoken truths in your family or wondered how to begin the process of breaking generational cycles, this episode is a soft and powerful invitation. It is an invitation to lean into community, deepen your self-discovery, and allow healing to ripple through every branch of your family tree.
Connect @DeviBrown @DeeplyWellPod @NicoleRussell
Visit: Precious Dreams Foundation
Learn More and Pre-Order Devi's New Book, "Living in Wisdom" DeviBrown.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Speaks to the planet.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'll go by the name of Charlamagne Tha God. And
guess what, I can't wait to see y'all at the
third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival. That's right, We're coming
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of All Podcasts with Sarah Jake Roberts. We got Good
(00:23):
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next sports podcast and the Trap Nerds podcast, with more
to be announced. And of course it's bigger than podcasts.
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Black Effect dot Com Flash Podcast Festival.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Take a deep in through your nose. Holds it.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Now, release slowly again deep in haale hold release, repeating
(01:32):
internally to yourself as you connect to my voice. I
am deeply well I am deeply Well. I am deeply Wow.
(02:00):
I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well Podcast.
Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on
your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,
and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care.
(02:24):
This is where we heal, This is where we transcend.
Welcome back, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to another episode. You know
Deeply Well is truly a space where we journey into
healing and self discovery and the deeper layers of the
sacred work of transformation. This is where we swim in
(02:45):
the nuance of the work and really get to get
into those crevice spaces to get clear and to transcend
and expand the experiences that we get to have while
we're here. As always, I'm your host, Steve Brown. Today's
episode is one that I know is going to touch
the very foundation of who each of us are. Our
lineage are inherited experiences and the silent stories that shape
(03:10):
us in ways that we may not even realize. How
much of your life has been shaped by things left unsaid,
the secrets, the pain, the struggles that were never fully
acknowledged or healed. So many of us are carrying the
weight of generational silence, patterns of avoidance, suppressed trauma, and
(03:31):
unspoken truths that have been passed down from generation to
generation to generation to generation. But what if we have
the power to change that narrative which we do. What
if the key to our deepest healing lies and the
courage to simply ask questions and share stories and speak
what was once unspeakable. Joining us today, we have a
(03:55):
very special guest, Nicole Russell Wharton. Nicole is a certified
trauma informed healing instructor. She is the founder and executive
director of The Precious Dreams Foundation, a global nonprofit organization
that advocates for mental health and the well being of children.
She is also the owner of Restorative Commons, which promotes
(04:16):
equity by way of rest and resources for advocates and
community change makers. An accomplished author, Nicole released her third book,
Breaking Generational Silence, A Guide to Disrupt unhealthy family Patterns
and Heal Inherited Trauma, about the emotional and physical impact
slavery had on her family's health, inviting readers to explore
(04:38):
the legacy of their own family history. Her best selling
self help book Everything a band Aid Can't Fix is
a cornerstone resource for teens across the nation and is
integrated into middle and high school curriculums. Inspired by her
own journey with ADHD, her first children's book, My Busy,
Busy Brain, encourages young readers to to embrace their unique
(05:01):
challenges and advocate for themselves. Nicole's impactful work has earned
her numerous accolades, including Glamour's Everyday Hero of the Year,
Observers Top twenty Heroes under forty, and recognition in Oh
the Oprah magazine. More recently, she was honored by NBC
in Essence for her tireless efforts to support the mental
(05:22):
health needs of youth during the pandemic. With unwavering empathy
and bold leadership, Nicole Russell Wharton is on a mission
to teach the world how to nurture young people's voices,
empowering them to advocate for their well being and their futures.
She currently calls NYC home Welcome to the show, Nicole.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Thank you so much for having me. It is such
an honor. I'm so excited to be here. I am
so excited to have you here. You know I've watched
your work over the years, and it's been so inspiring
because you touch something that is very rare, you know,
kind of like your focus with young people, and I know,
like so much work that you've done with kids who've
(06:07):
been foster homed or are having really adverse childhood experiences.
You know, it's the area that requires such a special heart.
It requires a lot of endurance, a lot of emotional endurance,
and it's a segment that requires a certain kind of
magic in a person to break through and to change
(06:29):
some of those harder expressions and experiences. So I'm so
excited to have you here and really get your perspective
on so many things, a lot of what we focus
on I think on this show and so many of
us in our lives. You become an adult, and if
you are blessed and aware enough to know that healing
needs to occur in your life, you then begin to
(06:52):
walk steps backward into your youth to heal those core
wounds to come back into your present. But what I
always think, with people who are truly immersed in the
work of young people, how do you even begin to
identify and even if someone is having a hard experience
like dive in in real time, so maybe the work
(07:15):
is different or less encompassing when the person grows up.
Those are things that always go through my Yeah, but yeah,
I'm excited to dive into all things. I want to
show everyone the book.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
This is the new book. It is available now everywhere
you get your reading materials. Breaking generational silence.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Thank you. Yeah, you know, it's interesting just listening to
you read the bio because so much of my work
has been centered around helping young people heal. Yeah, And
it was in understanding that I still had so much
healing to do that I recognize my healing was bigger
(07:57):
than just working on my childhood trauma and trying, and
that I actually needed to extend a hand and support
some of my family members that were struggling with their
own healing journeys or didn't even feel capable or deserving
of that type of work to be set free from
(08:19):
some of the pain they were still holding. So it's
a beautiful thing to sit here and have this conversation
with you and talk about my adult work and talk
about the work that I'm doing to master my own
healing and just be able to take that back to
the kids and empower them because so many of the
(08:40):
children that I work with do not know their biological parents,
and they're not able to do the family healing work,
but they are able to break those unhealthy cycles, and
they are able to start their own families and traditions
and heal from a lot that was passed down to them,
be naturally passed down to their children through the DNA,
(09:03):
and so just equipping them to understand what they're carrying
and to empower them to learn their bodies fully, mentally, physically, spiritually,
so that they can have the tools to break everything
through conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
My goodness, I really want to settle in that for
a second, because I think that speaks to so many people,
you know, and I recognize it. As our understanding of
healing and trauma continues to grow, our ability to get
into more specific scenarios will get better and increase.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I know there are a lot of people that perhaps
may feel very underserved because the language of the now
is about family systems right and breaking generational trauma. But
to your point, and that's just incredibly humbling and deep
to sit in the understanding of if you had no
(10:01):
relationship with your family, if you were adopted, if you
were in foster care for a variety of reasons. How
does one approach that work.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Yeah, it's interesting because I do have connections to both
sides of my lineage, but I have a very silent side,
and I knew going into this and sitting down to
have these conversations. I could do it with my mother,
and I could do it with those that were alive
(10:33):
on her side of the family, but not necessarily with
my father's, and so I had to do my own research.
I was online, I was doing DNA testing, I was
pulling up death certificates. I was doing everything I possibly
could to make sense of the history and kind of
(10:56):
using that information as an entry way to have conversation
with my father and create this space where I could
teach anyone that was willing and open to learning. And
that actually helped me break through with a lot of
my dad's family because they were so happy that someone
(11:16):
cared enough to look for the information or to get
the facts, because there were so many different stories told
in their childhood that they didn't know what was real
and what wasn't real. And so I really just want
to empower people that it's not just about talking to
who's here. It's also about using the tools that we
(11:38):
have and getting online and doing the research to find
as much information as you can possibly find through public
records to put it all together. And that's what I
had to do.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, I so relate to that.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I had a similar experience because I was raised by
a single parent, but everyone else was gone, so no
like living grandparents, no additional family. And it was truly
through ancestry and twenty three and me that I was
able to start getting records of things, and I remember
knowing I wouldn't be able to access like one side
of my family. I got a bunch of like birth certificates,
(12:16):
and then I did astrology chart readings on all these
birth certificates of people that had passed, And for me
that was such a breakthrough because I mean astrology. We
explore this a lot on this show, but gorgeous sacred
science and birth charts never lie. But it was really
interesting to see the train of trauma that came down
(12:36):
into everyone's storytelling of what their birth chart said. But
it was incredibly freeing, and it's like, yeah, that's such
powerful advice because sometimes it is so easy to just
experience the lack and in the healing journey that can
feel compounded, right, It's like even more of what's missing
or what I didn't have or what's not there, but
(12:58):
we can piece things together about people or about ways,
you know, repeating patterns that may have hit every generation
on the way through.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Yeah, And I think using some of that limited information
to learn more about ourselves. And for me in particular,
it was health that was the big like aha moment
for me in twenty twenty two. As much as I
thought I knew myself and I thought I knew my needs,
I realized that I don't actually know my physical body
(13:30):
as well as I think I do. I know what
I can see, I know what I can feel, but
there's so many other things. There's so many complex organs
and things happening within me that I just didn't know.
There were so many preventive measures and screenings that I
just overlooked and didn't do because conversations weren't being had
about health. And just in looking at the death certificates,
(13:53):
it was like having a revelation like, Okay, so heart issues,
this is something I need to pay attention to. This
is something that I may carry, and so I need
to be aware of that and in the choices that
I make, make the best decisions possible so that these outcomes.
What I'm seeing on this paper is not what my
life looks like or how my time ends. I have
(14:17):
something called thoracic endometriosis. Endometriosis is very common. Ten to
eleven percent of women have it, probably more, but so
many do not go diagnosed. And thoracic endometrisis. Only one
percent of women with endometriosis have it. And it is
when the ENDO tissue travels to the lung and attacks
(14:41):
the lung and causes a collapse. And endometriosis is something
I've had my entire life, and I had no idea
I had the symptoms. I felt them, I was aware
of them. You know, with every mentrual period, I'm on
the floor chron in pain. You know, I went to
(15:02):
the hospital. I thought that the first day of a
period was supposed to be so painful and that it
was bad luck, Like I just you know, had it
worse than most women. And that's just the cards that
I was dealt. I didn't know that that was a sign,
that was a red flag that something more serious is
going on. And this isn't my teens. I was having
(15:25):
these terrible, heavy, painful periods and I didn't know why.
And now that I'd look back on my life after
receiving a diagnosis just a few years ago, I realized
I could have prevented my lung collapse. I could have
prevented the seven surgeries that I had to have in
a year's time if only I knew, if only the
(15:48):
women in my family talked more about their pain and
normalized conversation about pain that we didn't gaslight ourselves say like, oh,
this is fine, this is normal, this is just part
of it. This is something we're supposed to deal with
because it's not. And once I recognize that I was
(16:11):
carrying this chronic illness, the first thing I wanted to
do was document everything that I was feeling, everything that
I had been through, everything that I told the doctors
prior that was dismissed. Because I wanted my niece. I wanted,
you know, possibly my future children or grandchildren to have
something to go back to in reference if they are
(16:31):
ever in a place where they have these paints or
these symptoms. I wanted them to have something where they
can say, Okay, I'm not the only one, and now
I know that I need to take this seriously and
get checked out.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, I think that has been one of the most
amazing things about right now, right like I feel like
because even to your point, I know so many people
listening right now can relate to that. It's one of
the that and also neurodivergence are two of them, to
just two of the many areas that we're just now
getting research back on. And women are able to equip
(17:06):
themselves with like knowing what that is or why this
has always been different about me. And it's powerful, and
it's sad, you know, it's powerful, And it's also so
sad how limited study about women's bodies has been throughout
the ages, but especially to that extent, our wombs haven't
been studied until really within the last decade, but the
(17:28):
last handful of years. And I think so many people
and I'm so sorry, and I'm so glad you know
and have the information about your body's design that you
need and deserve.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
And I think, and I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
If this resonates with you, but I've just seen across
the board so many people finding out certain chronic conditions
with their wombs certain immune autoimmune diseases or different neurodivergence
from ADHD to autism to many different things. You know,
women in their thirties and forties are just getting this information. Yeah,
(18:04):
and it's like exciting but also grievous, you know it is.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Because it often we find out the information when we
are desperate for the answers, and that usually happens when
something goes wrong. So yeah, it's I hate that I
had to go about it this way, but I am
grateful that I am in the opportunity to storytell and
to share my experience so that some of my family
(18:32):
can heal, My elders can heal through it by understanding
that what you're going through is not normal and they
can go and ask for a second opinion and get support.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
You know, you're featured in the book and there's a
chapter limited, Limited Dreams and Aspirations, and we talk about
purpose and finding our purpose. And you know, I've always
been so sure of what my purpose is. You know,
I have always had this strong desire to help children,
(19:04):
to be a voice for them, to empower them to
How did that.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Come to you?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Because it is such a special thing to serve children
and especially you do such deep work with them. How
did you arrive there? How did you know?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I think I think even as children, we can sense
our level of empathy if it's stronger than others. And
I was the kid who if someone was being bullied,
I wanted to stand up for that kid. If someone
was sitting by themselves in the cafeteria, I wanted to
(19:41):
sit with that kid, and I wanted to ask him
what he likes or what they liked to do, and
what's their home life like. I was so curious about
the people that are overlooked ever since I was a child,
and I didn't know what my career would look like specifically,
but I knew I want to help kids. And it
(20:02):
wasn't until my mother, who has the biggest heart in
the world, took in a young girl who's my sister.
And she took in this young girl and it was
the first time that I learned kids in foster care
do not have someone to cry to in the middle
of the night if they're having a bad dream. And
(20:25):
I watched her struggle week after week, and my mom
introduced comfort items, pajamas, bedtime stories, all of these things
that she didn't have before age four, and she was
still having these night terrors, and I saw what a
(20:45):
difference it made for her, and I immediately just felt
a sense of anger because I thought about all of
the other kids that don't have the person to provide
the resources, the comfort items, the ear in the middle
of the nights, just hear about what were the monster
saying to you or what was the bad dream that
(21:05):
you just had, and so.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Consistent love or care know where they're witnessing you over
time and know you and have like vested interest.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, And so for me, learning that the foster care
system lacked that type of support, I wanted to provide
a service that taught the kids how to do the
self work, how to self comfort, how to self soothe,
because they might not have a person that's consistent, and
(21:35):
if they do end up in a good home, maybe
it's only for a couple of weeks or a couple
of years. And so you know, that was the entire
inspiration behind why I did Precious Dreams. But when I
look back at my purpose that I'm so clear of,
this is what I'm supposed to do. I now look
back at my lineage and I look back at the
(21:57):
roles the women played and my family and how I'm
actually living their dreams. And yeah, my mother took in
one girl, and I, because of the resources I had
and the information that I had gained over time, was
able to start a nonprofit so I could help thousands
of kids. But if my mother grew up in the
(22:19):
time that I had, with the same privileges, she probably
would have done the same. So I look back, and
there's this question you ask in the book, like who
are you? And what I have learned today is that
I didn't know myself because I didn't fully understand my
DNA before. But now when I can explain to people
(22:42):
who I am, so much of it is looking back
and explaining what I carry and seeing it as gifts.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, it's the most gorgeous, like god intended place that
we're supposed to land if we're.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Lucky enough to you know, it really is. It's just
And thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
It was such an honor to join you on that
journey and be a part of that chapter because I
think too in what you described, and I know this
is like settling beautifully and someone listening. Purpose is just
so many things, but the core of your purpose is
what you said about yourself as this young, highly sensitive,
(23:23):
empathetic child that was picking up on the subtle energies
and the undercurrent of all the things that were and
said with everybody. And that gift, like that ability, that
purpose touches everything. It touches your life as an author
of many books, It touches your foundation, it touches your
children and your husband and everyone in your life.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Deeply. Well, I love that you brought.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Up that point about your mom because I think over
the last few years, I've had a life of experience
working event wise and someone on ones with the silent generation,
with the boomer generation, and a lot of what we
talk about is space to grieve the generational barriers, right,
(24:17):
space to grieve who you couldn't be as a woman,
or as a man, or as someone of a certain
cultural background because of the time you were born, and
there were just so many barriers to I guess the
way we're able to maximize purpose now where it can
be a lot of things, or it can even be
a desire to live that way.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah, And that's why I say, you know, I do
this work from a place of privilege, Yeah, because I
recognize that I also recognize that while we have privilege today,
that's not something that we're guaranteed in the future.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Oh, come on, talk about and Nicole, let's dive into that.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I think a lot about like protecting our work and
protecting our works words. Yeah, even this podcast. It's available
everywhere today, right, But where will these recordings live in
ten to twenty years? Will people still have access to them?
I mean, we see books that are being banned and like,
where will our stories live? So I literally have become
(25:20):
a hoarder of books. I have fallen in love with
shopping for physical books that tell every piece of my
family's lineage or the African American experience in this country,
because I know that future generations in my family may
not have access to them in the future, and I
(25:41):
want them to have a full picture, a full understanding
of their history.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
God, it's just it's that's powerful and so important for
us to think that way. And it's hard to think
that way because it almost gives you, you know, just
so much fear.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
But we have too.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
There was something and I wish apologies to whoever this is.
I don't remember the exact name, but it was there
was this post I saw that was educating on a woman,
a black woman who back in I believe the seventies,
started recording television and she recorded her TV for thirty
years because she said till she died, Because she said,
(26:24):
they're changing history in real time, and there's no one
that is going to be able You're going to see
it so fast and then not again, and there's no
one that's going to be able to point out when
they're trying to change our mind or change their stamps
about things. And it made me think of the Mandela effect,
which I don't know if you've heard of that, but
(26:45):
it's this way that our brains work, where we all
as a collective think we remember something that may or
may not have happened. So in what you're saying, I'm
thinking of that too. It's just like, yeah, who's to say,
you know what someone is able to have access to,
what they're going to pick up, how the narratives will
be changed, even within literature or film or sound. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
I think that's also why documenting is so important, Just
documenting your child's experiences, your own emotions, as you are
carrying life, as you are raising a child and being
part of a family, because I think about survival mode,
and survival mode is something that we're often in and
(27:31):
we are so unaware. And while I was healing from
my surgeries, I started writing the book. And there's a
part in the book where I say I had this
revelation to write this during my first solo shower and
I was struggling to bathe myself because I had nerve
damage on the entire right side of my body because
(27:53):
of the lung collapse. And I read that and said,
I had nerve damage. Oh my god, I comp completely forgot.
There were so many parts of what I went through
that I don't remember because my brain was just prioritizing
survival over memory. And so if I hadn't documented that
(28:14):
entire experience, there's so much of the trauma that I
would have forgot.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Wow, How do you in real time bring this work
into the life of your current family, including like your
motherhood journey with your child.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
It's interesting because I have an eight month old named Cash.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Oh my gosh, it's the sweetest baby.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Yeah, And so it's an exciting time. It's a beautiful,
scary time being a new mom. But I think that
I am so laser focused right now on working with
those that are still here, people that I know have
limited time, and so wanting to set my child's up
for success, I've begun to look back and doing the work,
(29:04):
the really difficult work with my mother, who I am
trying to still convince that they're still healing to do
and that you deserve it and you don't need to
die with all of that trauma inside of you. And
trying to convince my dad's side of the family to
(29:25):
talk more, and trying to build the relationship and the
unity between the younger generation and my cousin so that
when my child grows up, he can look to both
sides of his family and there are people there that
are willing to talk and to you know, continue doing
the work with him.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
It's such powerful, noble work. Yeah, Like it really is,
like and it's hard and.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
It's hard, and I also don't want to like sit
here and act like it's not.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Oh, everybodys listening right now knows because on.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
This show we do the work.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, it's it's hard. It's hard if you confront yourself
in so many ways. But that's what I think is beautiful.
When we get to a certain place in our work
where some of that charge about other people not doing
their work doesn't hit us so deeply. And that's what's
so beautiful about you know this, this.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Section of your life's work, because that is that is
the work of our life.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Right, It's like.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
We are not necessarily going to be able to change everybody.
People don't want change, don't want it, and some people
are not meant for it in this life if we
can be honest, right, and I'm going to go back
to my birth chart talks, but you know, it's not
in everyone's path that they heal all the things in
this life, and that is their right.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
But it's like, it's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
When we can just say within ourselves, I'm not in
judgment of them, but I will keep trying, and I
will keep holding the space and whatever way they're able
to receive it.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
I think the best thing that we can do is
offer the space and extend the hand, and if people
know it's there, they can choose to come in, they
can choose to open and if they if they don't,
that's okay. I'm able to sleep at night if I
know that I've tried, if I have not made the effort,
I simply can't.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
I think, especially with my parents, I've learned through my
own healing and the work I've had to do for myself,
that there's no reason to point a finger at anyone
and judge anyone for their mistakes or their shortcomings or
their absence.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
I went to see a holistic doctor a few years
ago and he was doing a body scan. And I
went to this doctor so that he could tell me
what physical ailments I had and what I needed to
be aware of. And he did this whole scan and
then he said, you need to forgive your mother. And
(32:03):
I was like what, And he's like, yeah, we can
come back to it, but that's part of this. And
then in the end, he said, who is the first
person that taught you about love? And I said my dad?
And he said, and you need to forgive your mother
for not being able to do what he did. And
(32:24):
I thought about it. I grew up in a single
parent home with my dad. I did not grow up
with my mom, and as close as I am with
my mom, I have always held on to that anger
from my childhood, not fully understanding why she left and
why she wasn't there, and part of me was still
(32:46):
angry because of it, and that was causing me harm
and I didn't even recognize it. So I talk about
that in the book, as well as having to admit
to my mom, Mom, I apparently I am still upset
and I haven't fully forgiven you. And I know that
we can talk about it and I can get answers
(33:07):
from you, but I also need to do some deeper
work with myself to get to the root of this
and figure out why I'm having such a hard time.
And so you know, I had to do that to
uncover it all and really figure out why is this
holding me back so much? And I think being able
to forgive her not only freed myself, it also freed
(33:30):
her in so many ways, and then opened opened up
the door for us to have dialogue about things she
felt I was too young to understand. Now she could
see that as a woman, I was ready, and so
we can talk about her trauma and the reasons behind
all of her decisions. And I welcomed those really difficult
(33:52):
conversations with arms wide open because I didn't need to
be upset with her anymore. I could recognize that she
she wasn't present for many reasons, but she was doing
the best she could with the tools she had.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, that's the biggest freedom. Yeah, that's the deeper layers
of the crevice work. And yeah, the power too of
stay in it, you know, because even our own perspective
gets to shift and grow.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I found, like on my journey with similar dynamics with
family members. It's like year one, in year two, the
charge and compassion I had felt very different than where
they felt in year three and four five of healing.
And so every time you get to a new layer,
there's a little more compassion you can come to the
(34:44):
person that may have caused harm with and a little
more neutrality and like what you thought it meant about you,
or what you thought it meant about their love for you. Yeah,
and sometimes we're right and sometimes we're wrong. But the
beauty is like staying in it, Yeah, and continuing even
on the same thing that you've been healing your whole life,
(35:05):
there's still more layers to it, you know, There's always
more layers to it.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah. How has everyone in your life felt about the book?
Speaker 4 (35:15):
That's a really good question. And so the book is
broken down into three sections. It's my mother's tears, my
father's silence, and then there's a chapter where I do
a lot of inner work, and that one is that
section is speak or Repeat. And because I worked so
closely with both of my parents on this journey, I
(35:36):
felt we had gone through all of these things together
and we had worked past them, and so when the
book came out, I was excited for them to read it.
And my mom was a mess the first day she
listened to the audio book and she was just in
tears at work, And I'm like, why would you listen
to it at work?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Mom?
Speaker 4 (35:56):
She's like, she was like, it hurts me so much
to hear your side of the story because your side
of the story is not like mine, and you were
too young to understand my why. And it hurts me
to know how much I've hurt you and how it's
affected you as a woman in all of this work
(36:16):
you had to do because of my decisions. And we're
still working through all of that, and it's hard, but
it's beautiful that I have the opportunity to work through it.
And I see in my sister, who didn't grow up
(36:36):
with her biological mother, that even she has had revelations
with this book about letting go of some of the
pain that she holds on to in recognizing that her
mother didn't have her mother didn't have everything she needed
(37:01):
to be the best mom to her, but her mother
made the best decision and allowing her to live with
my mother, her mother made the best decision in giving
her children to people that could care for them. And
if it wasn't for her mother, she wouldn't be here
and she wouldn't be a part of my life or
my family's life. And so I see her starting to
(37:23):
have this sense of gratitude and forgiveness, and I just
hope that it can do that for more people, because
that's really the only way that we can set ourselves
free from all of this pain that we're carrying. Yeah, wow,
(37:44):
I think too, Like what I'm also hearing and what
you're saying is like and the work continues even after
the book completes.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, it absolutely does, and it's like.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
New layers of it all.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yeah, in doing some of those deeper layers healing, How
does your husband and your partner kind of see you
in that or relate to that experience with you?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
What was his journey like, you.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Know, what's really interesting. I have hoped, in many ways
my journey and my work would inspire my husband to
ask some of the hard questions. I ask a lot
of hard questions, and I know you do too. And
my husband always tells me he doesn't know. He doesn't know.
(38:32):
You know, there have been people who have committed suicide
and people who have struggled with mental health, and he
doesn't know the full story on a lot of it. Yea,
And I want him so badly to start asking, because
I know at some point our son will grow up
curious and deeper than that. Before I actually got pregnant,
(38:55):
I said, we should talk about our what runs in
our families. We should talk about mental health, physical health, bipolarity, like,
let's talk about all of it so that I can
have an understanding of what our son may carry. And
that conversation made my husband a bit uncomfortable, and he's like, well,
(39:16):
you know, we don't have to assume, and I'm like,
it's not assumption, it's just preparation for whatever's to come,
you know. I'd just rather be prepared to take care
of whatever needs and to meet them.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
So I think my husband while he is the most
supportive man in my life. He's not fully ready, but
I think that with time he will be.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's the beauty, right Like, thankfully
there is still time. So yeah, whenever divine timing always prevails,
I think on the healing journey. But I'm pretty sure
it would be absolutely impossible for anyone in close proxy
to you to not start healing, Like you'd have to
(40:05):
coat yourself in armor to not pick up on those
vibes and the and the tools and the gifts to
be able to kind of dive in.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Yeah, because those questions are going to keep coming.
Speaker 5 (40:14):
That listen, I'm gonna find a few new ways to
sam that you're not done, yeah deeply. Well, how do
you define generational silence specifically? Because that I think is
really I just love that phrase, especially because not everyone necessarily.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Many of us do, but not everyone has to always
dive into what were the big t traumas?
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Right like or what was this? But it's really what
like to.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
That to the nuance of just not even sharing anything,
because I find sometimes like those are questions I've brought
up with my own mom. I'm like, not only did
I not hear anything? About your pain, or it was
said to me with such a chipper tone, with just
kind of like yeah, and then this horrible thing happened,
and I'm like, wait a minute, yeah, but then something
(41:05):
I shared with her, I said, I don't like you
don't share your wins with me either. You don't share
what makes life feel special to you or moments that
you cherish and think about. Like all of that silence
keeps us apart too, because I'm not given the opportunity
to like know what's happening inside Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
So so generational silence it's a term used by psychologists
and sociologists that really refers to at least two generations
of avoiding conversation around topics that make them feel uncomfortable.
And it doesn't have to be deep work. It could
be avoiding conversations around money and finances, around religion, around violence.
(41:51):
There's so many different things that we keep quiet about.
There's so many emotions that we suppress and stories that
we don't tell, and so the silence is in not
sharing that in giving that gift of what was learned
or not learned to the next generation so that they
can make better decisions.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
It seems to be that that is a lot more
normal in marginalized communities.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Absolutely. Why so in this book, I looked back at
my family, but at the end of the day, I
had to look at the root of the issue and
where was silence truly taught. And when I look at
my family's lineage and I look at the experience of slavery,
(42:39):
we were not taught that our feelings mattered. Our trauma
and our pain mattered. The people who hurt us the
most never apologized, and so conversations were not had about
honoring anything that we were feeling. I mean, families were
(43:02):
ripped apart and children were sold, and no one went
back to the mother and said, I'm so sorry I
had to do that to you. And so we were
taught to just move on and to just move forward.
And for generations, that was the coping technique that was
passed on, to just let it go. Yeah, it's going
(43:26):
to be okay, things will get better. But if you
hold on to it and you make it a big deal,
it gets worse. So just let it go. And we're
finally out of place because of all the tools and
resources that we have and all of the breakthroughs in
science that we can understand what we're going through and
create space to honor our feelings and our experiences and
(43:49):
share these stories. But for many years our pain was
overlooked and that was just part of the life experience
and compounded.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Just it's not like things got better.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, even I talk about in the book,
I talk about breaking certain religious traditions and how unconsciously
the generations of my family have always done that. I mean,
when we look back at the time of slavery, black
(44:25):
people went to church and they were taught to obey
their master, and that is how you get in good
grace with God.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Oh Lord Jesus.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
And so you know, we were taught to obey and
that is not in the Bible. Yeah, and there was
so much unlearning that needed to take place. And even still,
you know, and so when you look at religion and spirituality,
everyone has a different approach to it. And I think
(44:55):
finally now we're at a place of acceptance of understanding
that it's a and we don't have to judge people
for their own beliefs as long as they are following
or feeling something that is good and is leading them
in a good way. But that was generations of breaking
those cycles of what we're supposed to do and what
(45:15):
is being taught by one person or a collective of
people that were looking for a following.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yeah wow, yeah some in some way what you just
shared also made me feel so fortified and grateful to
be on to be alive right now in a time
where you have the luxury of quote unquote healing. You know,
(45:44):
it's just when you really sit in the fibers of
what you just expressed, it's like, you know, thinking back
to even when people were transported here from Africa and
what that registered in our DNA that still exists now
that didn't exist. You know, it's like the depth of
it is maddening. It's unfathomable, you know, and it's like,
(46:07):
but also there's a freedom and realizing there are so
many reasons, you know, so many of us are slaying
the dragons were slaying right now in this way, and
it's not because of personal deficit, right, Like, it's not
because of like personal just you're so broken. We are
(46:27):
carrying all of it, and we're the first generation to
be able to really look at it, you know, so
even if we don't get it all done, just continue
to entest forward all of us, you know, like our
work is to do what we can and to keep
having the conversations, to keep trying, you know, to keep
going back to that well of family with compassion and
(46:51):
hope and curiosity. That's what I'm getting from all of this.
Speaker 4 (46:55):
Yeah, Yeah, to continue the conversation. And I think being
in a time, living in a time where there are
so many distractions, sometimes it could be difficult to have
these deep conversations with our children, or we may feel
that they are not fully understanding the seriousness of what
(47:18):
we're sharing. And so I think even making sure you're
having conversations in the right spaces, I mean going for
a walk, having the talk in a car, being in
spaces where there aren't screens, you know, so that there
really is that one on one connection and your child's
(47:40):
can hear you and process what you're sharing.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
Oh my god, I love that I have to have
a confession to make.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
My son has thought that our TV doesn't work for
like the last several months, but it works.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
I just keep telling them it's broken, so you can talk.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
So we can just I love that it's been amazing,
like it's been so he never really gets screen time anyway,
and I know that in and of itself is a
privilege in a lot of ways to be able to
not need a screen to kind of get other things done.
And that is so hard for so many of us.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
It's hard. I'm doing it right now. Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
It's hard, and whatever you can do, we're doing our
best to navigate this world we didn't necessarily ask for
or have a hand in shaping. When it comes to
the way, you know, these electronics are rewiring our brain.
But that's a whole other episode. So he doesn't have
a ton of access anyway. But it did start to
(48:45):
turn into kind of him watching a cartoon in the morning,
or you know, being able to watch like still Water
before bed, which shout out to Stillwater on Apple Plus, y'all,
it's so good for the kids. But now I'm just like, no,
we can find things to do with our time, yeah,
you know, or or it creates so much space for
him to bring in his curiosity and his ability to
(49:08):
create you know, what the conversation will be, and so yeah,
that's yeah, it.
Speaker 4 (49:14):
Creates special It creates space for those core memories that
he can look back on. I mean, how many memories
do you have of whatever was happening around you while
you were watching TV as a child.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
God, that's so real. You have no idea, no idea.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
I can remember smells, I can remember smells and sounds,
but like everything else, Yeah, I was completely distracted.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 4 (49:44):
Okay, you're doing a good job.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
I received that. He'll have his own opinion when he
becomes old enough, but.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
He will know I enjoyed him and he was loved
and I tried really hard. You will know that.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
You know. I have one more big question for you,
and then I want to invite you to share some
soul work with the audience. But you know, I think
something that might be going through everyone's head right now,
especially if this is landing in, you know.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
A deeper way or a newer way.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Of understanding family dynamic. As people are kind of mulling
through some core memories or some themes in themselves, how
can people begin to identify the way in which generational
silence has affected them or the way in which they
may have inherited some of that inherited trauma. You know,
(50:37):
it may not be their exact experience, but something feels wrong.
How do they begin to start that walk?
Speaker 4 (50:45):
Yeah, I think I think recognizing where those blockages lie.
And for me, I looked at my marriage, and when
you're in a romantic relationship, or really any type of relationship,
it's like holding a mirror to yourself, and so you
(51:07):
are forced if you care enough about getting through all
the things with that other person who is so different
from you, you have to be able to explain yourself
and explain your responses and your triggers and all of
these things. And something that I didn't even realize was
an issue. I was so protective of my money and
(51:28):
keeping separate bank accounts was important to me, and I
didn't know why. I didn't want my husband to see
my spending habits. I didn't think it was any of
his business. I was like, yes, we're married, but why
do you need to see how I spend money? And
I recognized it was this insecurity that I had around
money because I didn't grow up with money, and I
(51:50):
didn't know what to do with money once I got it.
And so I married this man who was so educated
and knew how to invest money and build equity, and
I was just saving. I was putting money into a
savings account, and that was all that I knew to do.
(52:11):
And I was like, is something wrong with me?
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Is there? Like?
Speaker 4 (52:15):
What is this? And I looked at my parents, who
both went through bankruptcy. I looked at my grandparents who
were struggling to get by, and I realized that no
one had taught me about money. We didn't talk about it,
and even when I started making it, there was no
one to turn to to say what do I do
(52:36):
with this? How do I manage it? And so it's
recognizing that a lot of our setbacks and a lot
of our challenges stem from what we didn't know, and
sometimes that not the lack of knowledge comes from generational
the lack of generational experience with that thing. Yeah, And
(53:00):
so I think being really honest about ourselves and being
easier on ourselves, that this isn't just about you. It's
bigger than you. There's a reason you don't know, there's
a reason you don't know better, right, And so now
you can do the work to figure it out, but
(53:21):
you can also find out why you didn't know. And
that's really where I've been over the last few years,
is like, why didn't I know? And now that I do,
I can do better, but I can also look back
at my parents and say they didn't know and that
(53:41):
was okay.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Brava, yeah, wow, Yeah, You've been doing the deepest, deepest
layers of work and it's going to bear so much
fruit in your family tree.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
I hope.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
So it takes a lot of honesty and accountability, and
it takes a lot of vulnerability, and that those are
three things that I have been really working on channeling
for the last three years. Is just being so honest
with myself and accepting that I am this imperfect person
(54:19):
having a human experience, trying to figure it all out,
and I make mistakes and I may have hurt some
people as well, and I will do the work to
get better. If I want other people to do the same,
I have to give myself that grace.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
Gorgeously said yeah a Shay, Yes, yes, yes, God, thank you.
The last thing I will ask is if you would
share with our audience a little soul work. So it's
a way to integrate the episode. So whether that is
one of your personal tools or practices, one of your
(55:00):
favorite quotes, some self inquiry, anything to help better integrate
and kind of really sink into the savoring of this
episode and whatever the next step may be.
Speaker 4 (55:14):
Set the tone every day, in every space, set the tone.
I remember seeing on social media something about winning habits,
and a couple years ago, when I was really struggling
with my mental health and going into depression, I started
(55:37):
waking up and choosing what I believe were my winning habits,
and that was either starting the day with writing, walking,
or working out. And if I did at least one
of those things, even if for ten minutes every morning,
it's set the tone and put me in a better
(55:58):
place to respond to whatever challenges or chaos may arise.
I was ready because I would start the day setting
the tone with a winning habit. And I think it's
the same thing with energy. Sometimes we have fear around
how a conversation might go, how our needs may be
(56:21):
rejected by others in the workplace, and our relationships with
our family, and it's setting the tone that I am
walking in this space to give good energy, and I
am walking in this space to share my needs, and
if they are not met, they are at least heard.
(56:43):
And so I would say, always set the tone.
Speaker 3 (56:46):
I love that, I love that, and if they are
not met, they are always heard. Yeah, set the tone.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
That's good.
Speaker 4 (56:57):
Thank you. You set the tone everywhere you go. It's
a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing to experience. Anyone
who's ever met you knows. I was actually just talking
to a mutual friend of ours, Erica, and she was
saying that when you walk into a space, you just
carry this light with you, and that is setting the tone.
(57:18):
You know, you lift the spirits of others when you
walk into a room. It's a gift, but it's something
everyone is capable of doing if they're intentional about it.
Speaker 3 (57:28):
Thank you so much for saying that, And I really
receive that, and I just echo that too.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
All of us can do that for ourselves. All of
us can find the space to do that for others too,
you know. And it's like the more we do the work,
the more space there is to like light a fire
for yourself inside. And then it's not a lot of
work because you're just showing up in your own warmth
(57:56):
that you always hold.
Speaker 3 (57:58):
Yeah. Really beautiful. Book.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
Breaking Generational Silence, A Guide to disrupt unhealthy family patterns
and heal inherited trauma, by Nicole Russell Wharton.
Speaker 3 (58:10):
It is available.
Speaker 1 (58:11):
Everywhere audiobook, physical copy, kindle copy, all the places that
you get books get to the deeper layers of the work.
And you know, I want to say what I think
is so special and powerful about this book, and I
think could even be the position or statement, is that
(58:31):
it's the first in the things that I've seen, it
is the first book I've really seen be able to
create the bridge to community without yelling that it's about community, right,
And I think right now, as people do their own
internal work and investigation, there is that kind of void
(58:51):
space where you're like, how the hell do I go
back into the world, or how do I stay around
my family that also hurts me a little, or there
are all these things that are so hard to figure
out when you think you have done your all of
the work. And I think this book really beautifully gives
a deep understanding of what it is to be in
(59:15):
healing and bring that back into.
Speaker 3 (59:19):
The spaces that you love the most or.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
That are the most significant in your life. And that
is the harder part, but it is the most beautiful
part when you get to get to this point of
doing the work.
Speaker 4 (59:32):
Yeah, I think thank you for saying that, because a
lot of my work was centered around self, and it
was because of a response needed to deal or to
cope with the trauma for the kids that I work
with at the foundation, or even for myself telling myself
(59:54):
when my mother was gone that I didn't need anyone,
that I was enough and I was going to to
create this life for myself and I I am the
only thing that I need. And the revelation for me
was that I don't fully understand myself without being in
(01:00:16):
community with others. You can't fully heal in a room alone.
Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
That's it, that is it. There is only so much
understanding you can unlock in a silo. Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Yeah, yep yeah, Nicole, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
Thank you for having me. This is beautiful, such a privilege.
Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Check the show notes of this episode. You'll be able
to connect with Nicole's Instagram page, her website, and a
link to purchase this book now now now scroll down
into the show notes, get set up with all the info.
So grateful and so grateful for you listening and from home.
I am so glad you are on this journey. I
am so glad you are doing this work, and I
(01:01:06):
am so grateful I get to play a very tiny
part in that God blessed, no mistay say. The content
presented on Deeply Well serves solely for educational and informational purposes.
It should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical
(01:01:28):
or mental health guidance, and does not constitute a provider
patient relationship. As always, it is advisable to consult with
your healthcare provider or health team for any specific concerns
or questions that you may have. Connect with me on
social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or you
(01:01:48):
can go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And
if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget.
Please rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to
a friend. Deeply Well is a production of iHeartRadio and
The Black Effect Network.
Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
It's produced by jacquesse.
Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown. The Beautiful Soundbath
You Heard That's by Jarrelyn Glass from Crystal Cadence. For
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Speaks to the planet.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
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Speaker 3 (00:58):
Take a deep in through your nose. Holds it.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Now, release slowly again deep in haale hold release, repeating
(01:32):
internally to yourself as you connect to my voice. I
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(02:00):
I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well Podcast.
Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on
your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,
and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care.
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This is where we heal, This is where we transcend.
Welcome back, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to another episode. You know
Deeply Well is truly a space where we journey into
healing and self discovery and the deeper layers of the
sacred work of transformation. This is where we swim in
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the nuance of the work and really get to get
into those crevice spaces to get clear and to transcend
and expand the experiences that we get to have while
we're here. As always, I'm your host, Steve Brown. Today's
episode is one that I know is going to touch
the very foundation of who each of us are. Our
lineage are inherited experiences and the silent stories that shape
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us in ways that we may not even realize. How
much of your life has been shaped by things left unsaid,
the secrets, the pain, the struggles that were never fully
acknowledged or healed. So many of us are carrying the
weight of generational silence, patterns of avoidance, suppressed trauma, and
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unspoken truths that have been passed down from generation to
generation to generation to generation. But what if we have
the power to change that narrative which we do. What
if the key to our deepest healing lies and the
courage to simply ask questions and share stories and speak
what was once unspeakable. Joining us today, we have a
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very special guest, Nicole Russell Wharton. Nicole is a certified
trauma informed healing instructor. She is the founder and executive
director of The Precious Dreams Foundation, a global nonprofit organization
that advocates for mental health and the well being of children.
She is also the owner of Restorative Commons, which promotes
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equity by way of rest and resources for advocates and
community change makers. An accomplished author, Nicole released her third book,
Breaking Generational Silence, A Guide to Disrupt unhealthy family Patterns
and Heal Inherited Trauma, about the emotional and physical impact
slavery had on her family's health, inviting readers to explore
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the legacy of their own family history. Her best selling
self help book Everything a band Aid Can't Fix is
a cornerstone resource for teens across the nation and is
integrated into middle and high school curriculums. Inspired by her
own journey with ADHD, her first children's book, My Busy,
Busy Brain, encourages young readers to to embrace their unique
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challenges and advocate for themselves. Nicole's impactful work has earned
her numerous accolades, including Glamour's Everyday Hero of the Year,
Observers Top twenty Heroes under forty, and recognition in Oh
the Oprah magazine. More recently, she was honored by NBC
in Essence for her tireless efforts to support the mental
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health needs of youth during the pandemic. With unwavering empathy
and bold leadership, Nicole Russell Wharton is on a mission
to teach the world how to nurture young people's voices,
empowering them to advocate for their well being and their futures.
She currently calls NYC home Welcome to the show, Nicole.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Thank you so much for having me. It is such
an honor. I'm so excited to be here. I am
so excited to have you here. You know I've watched
your work over the years, and it's been so inspiring
because you touch something that is very rare, you know,
kind of like your focus with young people, and I know,
like so much work that you've done with kids who've
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been foster homed or are having really adverse childhood experiences.
You know, it's the area that requires such a special heart.
It requires a lot of endurance, a lot of emotional endurance,
and it's a segment that requires a certain kind of
magic in a person to break through and to change
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some of those harder expressions and experiences. So I'm so
excited to have you here and really get your perspective
on so many things, a lot of what we focus
on I think on this show and so many of
us in our lives. You become an adult, and if
you are blessed and aware enough to know that healing
needs to occur in your life, you then begin to
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walk steps backward into your youth to heal those core
wounds to come back into your present. But what I
always think, with people who are truly immersed in the
work of young people, how do you even begin to
identify and even if someone is having a hard experience
like dive in in real time, so maybe the work
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is different or less encompassing when the person grows up.
Those are things that always go through my Yeah, but yeah,
I'm excited to dive into all things. I want to
show everyone the book.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
This is the new book. It is available now everywhere
you get your reading materials. Breaking generational silence.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Thank you. Yeah, you know, it's interesting just listening to
you read the bio because so much of my work
has been centered around helping young people heal. Yeah, And
it was in understanding that I still had so much
healing to do that I recognize my healing was bigger
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than just working on my childhood trauma and trying, and
that I actually needed to extend a hand and support
some of my family members that were struggling with their
own healing journeys or didn't even feel capable or deserving
of that type of work to be set free from
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some of the pain they were still holding. So it's
a beautiful thing to sit here and have this conversation
with you and talk about my adult work and talk
about the work that I'm doing to master my own
healing and just be able to take that back to
the kids and empower them because so many of the
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children that I work with do not know their biological parents,
and they're not able to do the family healing work,
but they are able to break those unhealthy cycles, and
they are able to start their own families and traditions
and heal from a lot that was passed down to them,
be naturally passed down to their children through the DNA,
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and so just equipping them to understand what they're carrying
and to empower them to learn their bodies fully, mentally, physically, spiritually,
so that they can have the tools to break everything
through conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
My goodness, I really want to settle in that for
a second, because I think that speaks to so many people,
you know, and I recognize it. As our understanding of
healing and trauma continues to grow, our ability to get
into more specific scenarios will get better and increase.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I know there are a lot of people that perhaps
may feel very underserved because the language of the now
is about family systems right and breaking generational trauma. But
to your point, and that's just incredibly humbling and deep
to sit in the understanding of if you had no
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relationship with your family, if you were adopted, if you
were in foster care for a variety of reasons. How
does one approach that work.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Yeah, it's interesting because I do have connections to both
sides of my lineage, but I have a very silent side,
and I knew going into this and sitting down to
have these conversations. I could do it with my mother,
and I could do it with those that were alive
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on her side of the family, but not necessarily with
my father's, and so I had to do my own research.
I was online, I was doing DNA testing, I was
pulling up death certificates. I was doing everything I possibly
could to make sense of the history and kind of
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using that information as an entry way to have conversation
with my father and create this space where I could
teach anyone that was willing and open to learning. And
that actually helped me break through with a lot of
my dad's family because they were so happy that someone
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cared enough to look for the information or to get
the facts, because there were so many different stories told
in their childhood that they didn't know what was real
and what wasn't real. And so I really just want
to empower people that it's not just about talking to
who's here. It's also about using the tools that we
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have and getting online and doing the research to find
as much information as you can possibly find through public
records to put it all together. And that's what I
had to do.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, I so relate to that.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I had a similar experience because I was raised by
a single parent, but everyone else was gone, so no
like living grandparents, no additional family. And it was truly
through ancestry and twenty three and me that I was
able to start getting records of things, and I remember
knowing I wouldn't be able to access like one side
of my family. I got a bunch of like birth certificates,
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and then I did astrology chart readings on all these
birth certificates of people that had passed, And for me
that was such a breakthrough because I mean astrology. We
explore this a lot on this show, but gorgeous sacred
science and birth charts never lie. But it was really
interesting to see the train of trauma that came down
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into everyone's storytelling of what their birth chart said. But
it was incredibly freeing, and it's like, yeah, that's such
powerful advice because sometimes it is so easy to just
experience the lack and in the healing journey that can
feel compounded, right, It's like even more of what's missing
or what I didn't have or what's not there, but
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we can piece things together about people or about ways,
you know, repeating patterns that may have hit every generation
on the way through.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Yeah, And I think using some of that limited information
to learn more about ourselves. And for me in particular,
it was health that was the big like aha moment
for me in twenty twenty two. As much as I
thought I knew myself and I thought I knew my needs,
I realized that I don't actually know my physical body
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as well as I think I do. I know what
I can see, I know what I can feel, but
there's so many other things. There's so many complex organs
and things happening within me that I just didn't know.
There were so many preventive measures and screenings that I
just overlooked and didn't do because conversations weren't being had
about health. And just in looking at the death certificates,
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it was like having a revelation like, Okay, so heart issues,
this is something I need to pay attention to. This
is something that I may carry, and so I need
to be aware of that and in the choices that
I make, make the best decisions possible so that these outcomes.
What I'm seeing on this paper is not what my
life looks like or how my time ends. I have
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something called thoracic endometriosis. Endometriosis is very common. Ten to
eleven percent of women have it, probably more, but so
many do not go diagnosed. And thoracic endometrisis. Only one
percent of women with endometriosis have it. And it is
when the ENDO tissue travels to the lung and attacks
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the lung and causes a collapse. And endometriosis is something
I've had my entire life, and I had no idea
I had the symptoms. I felt them, I was aware
of them. You know, with every mentrual period, I'm on
the floor chron in pain. You know, I went to
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the hospital. I thought that the first day of a
period was supposed to be so painful and that it
was bad luck, Like I just you know, had it
worse than most women. And that's just the cards that
I was dealt. I didn't know that that was a sign,
that was a red flag that something more serious is
going on. And this isn't my teens. I was having
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these terrible, heavy, painful periods and I didn't know why.
And now that I'd look back on my life after
receiving a diagnosis just a few years ago, I realized
I could have prevented my lung collapse. I could have
prevented the seven surgeries that I had to have in
a year's time if only I knew, if only the
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women in my family talked more about their pain and
normalized conversation about pain that we didn't gaslight ourselves say like, oh,
this is fine, this is normal, this is just part
of it. This is something we're supposed to deal with
because it's not. And once I recognize that I was
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carrying this chronic illness, the first thing I wanted to
do was document everything that I was feeling, everything that
I had been through, everything that I told the doctors
prior that was dismissed. Because I wanted my niece. I wanted,
you know, possibly my future children or grandchildren to have
something to go back to in reference if they are
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ever in a place where they have these paints or
these symptoms. I wanted them to have something where they
can say, Okay, I'm not the only one, and now
I know that I need to take this seriously and
get checked out.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, I think that has been one of the most
amazing things about right now, right like I feel like
because even to your point, I know so many people
listening right now can relate to that. It's one of
the that and also neurodivergence are two of them, to
just two of the many areas that we're just now
getting research back on. And women are able to equip
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themselves with like knowing what that is or why this
has always been different about me. And it's powerful, and
it's sad, you know, it's powerful, And it's also so
sad how limited study about women's bodies has been throughout
the ages, but especially to that extent, our wombs haven't
been studied until really within the last decade, but the
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last handful of years. And I think so many people
and I'm so sorry, and I'm so glad you know
and have the information about your body's design that you
need and deserve.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
And I think, and I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
If this resonates with you, but I've just seen across
the board so many people finding out certain chronic conditions
with their wombs certain immune autoimmune diseases or different neurodivergence
from ADHD to autism to many different things. You know,
women in their thirties and forties are just getting this information. Yeah,
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and it's like exciting but also grievous, you know it is.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Because it often we find out the information when we
are desperate for the answers, and that usually happens when
something goes wrong. So yeah, it's I hate that I
had to go about it this way, but I am
grateful that I am in the opportunity to storytell and
to share my experience so that some of my family
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can heal, My elders can heal through it by understanding
that what you're going through is not normal and they
can go and ask for a second opinion and get support.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
You know, you're featured in the book and there's a
chapter limited, Limited Dreams and Aspirations, and we talk about
purpose and finding our purpose. And you know, I've always
been so sure of what my purpose is. You know,
I have always had this strong desire to help children,
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to be a voice for them, to empower them to
How did that.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Come to you?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Because it is such a special thing to serve children
and especially you do such deep work with them. How
did you arrive there? How did you know?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I think I think even as children, we can sense
our level of empathy if it's stronger than others. And
I was the kid who if someone was being bullied,
I wanted to stand up for that kid. If someone
was sitting by themselves in the cafeteria, I wanted to
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sit with that kid, and I wanted to ask him
what he likes or what they liked to do, and
what's their home life like. I was so curious about
the people that are overlooked ever since I was a child,
and I didn't know what my career would look like specifically,
but I knew I want to help kids. And it
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wasn't until my mother, who has the biggest heart in
the world, took in a young girl who's my sister.
And she took in this young girl and it was
the first time that I learned kids in foster care
do not have someone to cry to in the middle
of the night if they're having a bad dream. And
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I watched her struggle week after week, and my mom
introduced comfort items, pajamas, bedtime stories, all of these things
that she didn't have before age four, and she was
still having these night terrors, and I saw what a
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difference it made for her, and I immediately just felt
a sense of anger because I thought about all of
the other kids that don't have the person to provide
the resources, the comfort items, the ear in the middle
of the nights, just hear about what were the monster
saying to you or what was the bad dream that
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you just had, and so.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Consistent love or care know where they're witnessing you over
time and know you and have like vested interest.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, And so for me, learning that the foster care
system lacked that type of support, I wanted to provide
a service that taught the kids how to do the
self work, how to self comfort, how to self soothe,
because they might not have a person that's consistent, and
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if they do end up in a good home, maybe
it's only for a couple of weeks or a couple
of years. And so you know, that was the entire
inspiration behind why I did Precious Dreams. But when I
look back at my purpose that I'm so clear of,
this is what I'm supposed to do. I now look
back at my lineage and I look back at the
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roles the women played and my family and how I'm
actually living their dreams. And yeah, my mother took in
one girl, and I, because of the resources I had
and the information that I had gained over time, was
able to start a nonprofit so I could help thousands
of kids. But if my mother grew up in the
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time that I had, with the same privileges, she probably
would have done the same. So I look back, and
there's this question you ask in the book, like who
are you? And what I have learned today is that
I didn't know myself because I didn't fully understand my
DNA before. But now when I can explain to people
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who I am, so much of it is looking back
and explaining what I carry and seeing it as gifts.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, it's the most gorgeous, like god intended place that
we're supposed to land if we're.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Lucky enough to you know, it really is. It's just
And thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
It was such an honor to join you on that
journey and be a part of that chapter because I
think too in what you described, and I know this
is like settling beautifully and someone listening. Purpose is just
so many things, but the core of your purpose is
what you said about yourself as this young, highly sensitive,
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empathetic child that was picking up on the subtle energies
and the undercurrent of all the things that were and
said with everybody. And that gift, like that ability, that
purpose touches everything. It touches your life as an author
of many books, It touches your foundation, it touches your
children and your husband and everyone in your life.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Deeply. Well, I love that you brought.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Up that point about your mom because I think over
the last few years, I've had a life of experience
working event wise and someone on ones with the silent generation,
with the boomer generation, and a lot of what we
talk about is space to grieve the generational barriers, right,
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space to grieve who you couldn't be as a woman,
or as a man, or as someone of a certain
cultural background because of the time you were born, and
there were just so many barriers to I guess the
way we're able to maximize purpose now where it can
be a lot of things, or it can even be
a desire to live that way.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah, And that's why I say, you know, I do
this work from a place of privilege, Yeah, because I
recognize that I also recognize that while we have privilege today,
that's not something that we're guaranteed in the future.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Oh, come on, talk about and Nicole, let's dive into that.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
I think a lot about like protecting our work and
protecting our works words. Yeah, even this podcast. It's available
everywhere today, right, But where will these recordings live in
ten to twenty years? Will people still have access to them?
I mean, we see books that are being banned and like,
where will our stories live? So I literally have become
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a hoarder of books. I have fallen in love with
shopping for physical books that tell every piece of my
family's lineage or the African American experience in this country,
because I know that future generations in my family may
not have access to them in the future, and I
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want them to have a full picture, a full understanding
of their history.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
God, it's just it's that's powerful and so important for
us to think that way. And it's hard to think
that way because it almost gives you, you know, just
so much fear.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
But we have too.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
There was something and I wish apologies to whoever this is.
I don't remember the exact name, but it was there
was this post I saw that was educating on a woman,
a black woman who back in I believe the seventies,
started recording television and she recorded her TV for thirty
years because she said till she died, Because she said,
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they're changing history in real time, and there's no one
that is going to be able You're going to see
it so fast and then not again, and there's no
one that's going to be able to point out when
they're trying to change our mind or change their stamps
about things. And it made me think of the Mandela effect,
which I don't know if you've heard of that, but
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it's this way that our brains work, where we all
as a collective think we remember something that may or
may not have happened. So in what you're saying, I'm
thinking of that too. It's just like, yeah, who's to say,
you know what someone is able to have access to,
what they're going to pick up, how the narratives will
be changed, even within literature or film or sound. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
I think that's also why documenting is so important, Just
documenting your child's experiences, your own emotions, as you are
carrying life, as you are raising a child and being
part of a family, because I think about survival mode,
and survival mode is something that we're often in and
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we are so unaware. And while I was healing from
my surgeries, I started writing the book. And there's a
part in the book where I say I had this
revelation to write this during my first solo shower and
I was struggling to bathe myself because I had nerve
damage on the entire right side of my body because
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of the lung collapse. And I read that and said,
I had nerve damage. Oh my god, I comp completely forgot.
There were so many parts of what I went through
that I don't remember because my brain was just prioritizing
survival over memory. And so if I hadn't documented that
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entire experience, there's so much of the trauma that I
would have forgot.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Wow, How do you in real time bring this work
into the life of your current family, including like your
motherhood journey with your child.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
It's interesting because I have an eight month old named Cash.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Oh my gosh, it's the sweetest baby.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Yeah, And so it's an exciting time. It's a beautiful,
scary time being a new mom. But I think that
I am so laser focused right now on working with
those that are still here, people that I know have
limited time, and so wanting to set my child's up
for success, I've begun to look back and doing the work,
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the really difficult work with my mother, who I am
trying to still convince that they're still healing to do
and that you deserve it and you don't need to
die with all of that trauma inside of you. And
trying to convince my dad's side of the family to
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talk more, and trying to build the relationship and the
unity between the younger generation and my cousin so that
when my child grows up, he can look to both
sides of his family and there are people there that
are willing to talk and to you know, continue doing
the work with him.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
It's such powerful, noble work. Yeah, Like it really is,
like and it's hard and.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
It's hard, and I also don't want to like sit
here and act like it's not.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Oh, everybodys listening right now knows because on.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
This show we do the work.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, it's it's hard. It's hard if you confront yourself
in so many ways. But that's what I think is beautiful.
When we get to a certain place in our work
where some of that charge about other people not doing
their work doesn't hit us so deeply. And that's what's
so beautiful about you know this, this.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Section of your life's work, because that is that is
the work of our life.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
Right, It's like.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
We are not necessarily going to be able to change everybody.
People don't want change, don't want it, and some people
are not meant for it in this life if we
can be honest, right, and I'm going to go back
to my birth chart talks, but you know, it's not
in everyone's path that they heal all the things in
this life, and that is their right.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
But it's like, it's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
When we can just say within ourselves, I'm not in
judgment of them, but I will keep trying, and I
will keep holding the space and whatever way they're able
to receive it.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
I think the best thing that we can do is
offer the space and extend the hand, and if people
know it's there, they can choose to come in, they
can choose to open and if they if they don't,
that's okay. I'm able to sleep at night if I
know that I've tried, if I have not made the effort,
I simply can't.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
And yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
I think, especially with my parents, I've learned through my
own healing and the work I've had to do for myself,
that there's no reason to point a finger at anyone
and judge anyone for their mistakes or their shortcomings or
their absence.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
I went to see a holistic doctor a few years
ago and he was doing a body scan. And I
went to this doctor so that he could tell me
what physical ailments I had and what I needed to
be aware of. And he did this whole scan and
then he said, you need to forgive your mother. And
(32:03):
I was like what, And he's like, yeah, we can
come back to it, but that's part of this. And
then in the end, he said, who is the first
person that taught you about love? And I said my dad?
And he said, and you need to forgive your mother
for not being able to do what he did. And
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I thought about it. I grew up in a single
parent home with my dad. I did not grow up
with my mom, and as close as I am with
my mom, I have always held on to that anger
from my childhood, not fully understanding why she left and
why she wasn't there, and part of me was still
(32:46):
angry because of it, and that was causing me harm
and I didn't even recognize it. So I talk about
that in the book, as well as having to admit
to my mom, Mom, I apparently I am still upset
and I haven't fully forgiven you. And I know that
we can talk about it and I can get answers
(33:07):
from you, but I also need to do some deeper
work with myself to get to the root of this
and figure out why I'm having such a hard time.
And so you know, I had to do that to
uncover it all and really figure out why is this
holding me back so much? And I think being able
to forgive her not only freed myself, it also freed
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her in so many ways, and then opened opened up
the door for us to have dialogue about things she
felt I was too young to understand. Now she could
see that as a woman, I was ready, and so
we can talk about her trauma and the reasons behind
all of her decisions. And I welcomed those really difficult
(33:52):
conversations with arms wide open because I didn't need to
be upset with her anymore. I could recognize that she
she wasn't present for many reasons, but she was doing
the best she could with the tools she had.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Yeah, that's the biggest freedom. Yeah, that's the deeper layers
of the crevice work. And yeah, the power too of
stay in it, you know, because even our own perspective
gets to shift and grow.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
You know.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I found, like on my journey with similar dynamics with
family members. It's like year one, in year two, the
charge and compassion I had felt very different than where
they felt in year three and four five of healing.
And so every time you get to a new layer,
there's a little more compassion you can come to the
(34:44):
person that may have caused harm with and a little
more neutrality and like what you thought it meant about you,
or what you thought it meant about their love for you. Yeah,
and sometimes we're right and sometimes we're wrong. But the
beauty is like staying in it, Yeah, and continuing even
on the same thing that you've been healing your whole life,
(35:05):
there's still more layers to it, you know, There's always
more layers to it.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
Yeah. How has everyone in your life felt about the book?
Speaker 4 (35:15):
That's a really good question. And so the book is
broken down into three sections. It's my mother's tears, my
father's silence, and then there's a chapter where I do
a lot of inner work, and that one is that
section is speak or Repeat. And because I worked so
closely with both of my parents on this journey, I
(35:36):
felt we had gone through all of these things together
and we had worked past them, and so when the
book came out, I was excited for them to read it.
And my mom was a mess the first day she
listened to the audio book and she was just in
tears at work, And I'm like, why would you listen
to it at work?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Mom?
Speaker 4 (35:56):
She's like, she was like, it hurts me so much
to hear your side of the story because your side
of the story is not like mine, and you were
too young to understand my why. And it hurts me
to know how much I've hurt you and how it's
affected you as a woman in all of this work
(36:16):
you had to do because of my decisions. And we're
still working through all of that, and it's hard, but
it's beautiful that I have the opportunity to work through it.
And I see in my sister, who didn't grow up
(36:36):
with her biological mother, that even she has had revelations
with this book about letting go of some of the
pain that she holds on to in recognizing that her
mother didn't have her mother didn't have everything she needed
(37:01):
to be the best mom to her, but her mother
made the best decision and allowing her to live with
my mother, her mother made the best decision in giving
her children to people that could care for them. And
if it wasn't for her mother, she wouldn't be here
and she wouldn't be a part of my life or
my family's life. And so I see her starting to
(37:23):
have this sense of gratitude and forgiveness, and I just
hope that it can do that for more people, because
that's really the only way that we can set ourselves
free from all of this pain that we're carrying. Yeah, wow,
(37:44):
I think too, Like what I'm also hearing and what
you're saying is like and the work continues even after
the book completes.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, it absolutely does, and it's like.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
New layers of it all.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yeah, in doing some of those deeper layers healing, How
does your husband and your partner kind of see you
in that or relate to that experience with you?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
What was his journey like, you.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
Know, what's really interesting. I have hoped, in many ways
my journey and my work would inspire my husband to
ask some of the hard questions. I ask a lot
of hard questions, and I know you do too. And
my husband always tells me he doesn't know. He doesn't know.
(38:32):
You know, there have been people who have committed suicide
and people who have struggled with mental health, and he
doesn't know the full story on a lot of it. Yea,
And I want him so badly to start asking, because
I know at some point our son will grow up
curious and deeper than that. Before I actually got pregnant,
(38:55):
I said, we should talk about our what runs in
our families. We should talk about mental health, physical health, bipolarity, like,
let's talk about all of it so that I can
have an understanding of what our son may carry. And
that conversation made my husband a bit uncomfortable, and he's like, well,
(39:16):
you know, we don't have to assume, and I'm like,
it's not assumption, it's just preparation for whatever's to come,
you know. I'd just rather be prepared to take care
of whatever needs and to meet them.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
So I think my husband while he is the most
supportive man in my life. He's not fully ready, but
I think that with time he will be.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's the beauty, right Like, thankfully
there is still time. So yeah, whenever divine timing always prevails,
I think on the healing journey. But I'm pretty sure
it would be absolutely impossible for anyone in close proxy
to you to not start healing, Like you'd have to
(40:05):
coat yourself in armor to not pick up on those
vibes and the and the tools and the gifts to
be able to kind of dive in.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
Yeah, because those questions are going to keep coming.
Speaker 5 (40:14):
That listen, I'm gonna find a few new ways to
sam that you're not done, yeah deeply. Well, how do
you define generational silence specifically? Because that I think is
really I just love that phrase, especially because not everyone necessarily.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Many of us do, but not everyone has to always
dive into what were the big t traumas?
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Right like or what was this? But it's really what
like to.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
That to the nuance of just not even sharing anything,
because I find sometimes like those are questions I've brought
up with my own mom. I'm like, not only did
I not hear anything? About your pain, or it was
said to me with such a chipper tone, with just
kind of like yeah, and then this horrible thing happened,
and I'm like, wait a minute, yeah, but then something
(41:05):
I shared with her, I said, I don't like you
don't share your wins with me either. You don't share
what makes life feel special to you or moments that
you cherish and think about. Like all of that silence
keeps us apart too, because I'm not given the opportunity
to like know what's happening inside Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
So so generational silence it's a term used by psychologists
and sociologists that really refers to at least two generations
of avoiding conversation around topics that make them feel uncomfortable.
And it doesn't have to be deep work. It could
be avoiding conversations around money and finances, around religion, around violence.
(41:51):
There's so many different things that we keep quiet about.
There's so many emotions that we suppress and stories that
we don't tell, and so the silence is in not
sharing that in giving that gift of what was learned
or not learned to the next generation so that they
can make better decisions.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
It seems to be that that is a lot more
normal in marginalized communities.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Absolutely. Why so in this book, I looked back at
my family, but at the end of the day, I
had to look at the root of the issue and
where was silence truly taught. And when I look at
my family's lineage and I look at the experience of slavery,
(42:39):
we were not taught that our feelings mattered. Our trauma
and our pain mattered. The people who hurt us the
most never apologized, and so conversations were not had about
honoring anything that we were feeling. I mean, families were
(43:02):
ripped apart and children were sold, and no one went
back to the mother and said, I'm so sorry I
had to do that to you. And so we were
taught to just move on and to just move forward.
And for generations, that was the coping technique that was
passed on, to just let it go. Yeah, it's going
(43:26):
to be okay, things will get better. But if you
hold on to it and you make it a big deal,
it gets worse. So just let it go. And we're
finally out of place because of all the tools and
resources that we have and all of the breakthroughs in
science that we can understand what we're going through and
create space to honor our feelings and our experiences and
(43:49):
share these stories. But for many years our pain was
overlooked and that was just part of the life experience
and compounded.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
Just it's not like things got better.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, even I talk about in the book,
I talk about breaking certain religious traditions and how unconsciously
the generations of my family have always done that. I mean,
when we look back at the time of slavery, black
(44:25):
people went to church and they were taught to obey
their master, and that is how you get in good
grace with God.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Oh Lord Jesus.
Speaker 4 (44:33):
And so you know, we were taught to obey and
that is not in the Bible. Yeah, and there was
so much unlearning that needed to take place. And even still,
you know, and so when you look at religion and spirituality,
everyone has a different approach to it. And I think
(44:55):
finally now we're at a place of acceptance of understanding
that it's a and we don't have to judge people
for their own beliefs as long as they are following
or feeling something that is good and is leading them
in a good way. But that was generations of breaking
those cycles of what we're supposed to do and what
(45:15):
is being taught by one person or a collective of
people that were looking for a following.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Yeah wow, yeah some in some way what you just
shared also made me feel so fortified and grateful to
be on to be alive right now in a time
where you have the luxury of quote unquote healing. You know,
(45:44):
it's just when you really sit in the fibers of
what you just expressed, it's like, you know, thinking back
to even when people were transported here from Africa and
what that registered in our DNA that still exists now
that didn't exist. You know, it's like the depth of
it is maddening. It's unfathomable, you know, and it's like,
(46:07):
but also there's a freedom and realizing there are so
many reasons, you know, so many of us are slaying
the dragons were slaying right now in this way, and
it's not because of personal deficit, right, Like, it's not
because of like personal just you're so broken. We are
(46:27):
carrying all of it, and we're the first generation to
be able to really look at it, you know, so
even if we don't get it all done, just continue
to entest forward all of us, you know, like our
work is to do what we can and to keep
having the conversations, to keep trying, you know, to keep
going back to that well of family with compassion and
(46:51):
hope and curiosity. That's what I'm getting from all of this.
Speaker 4 (46:55):
Yeah, Yeah, to continue the conversation. And I think being
in a time, living in a time where there are
so many distractions, sometimes it could be difficult to have
these deep conversations with our children, or we may feel
that they are not fully understanding the seriousness of what
(47:18):
we're sharing. And so I think even making sure you're
having conversations in the right spaces, I mean going for
a walk, having the talk in a car, being in
spaces where there aren't screens, you know, so that there
really is that one on one connection and your child's
(47:40):
can hear you and process what you're sharing.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
Oh my god, I love that I have to have
a confession to make.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
My son has thought that our TV doesn't work for
like the last several months, but it works.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
I just keep telling them it's broken, so you can talk.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
So we can just I love that it's been amazing,
like it's been so he never really gets screen time anyway,
and I know that in and of itself is a
privilege in a lot of ways to be able to
not need a screen to kind of get other things done.
And that is so hard for so many of us.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
It's hard. I'm doing it right now. Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
It's hard, and whatever you can do, we're doing our
best to navigate this world we didn't necessarily ask for
or have a hand in shaping. When it comes to
the way, you know, these electronics are rewiring our brain.
But that's a whole other episode. So he doesn't have
a ton of access anyway. But it did start to
(48:45):
turn into kind of him watching a cartoon in the morning,
or you know, being able to watch like still Water
before bed, which shout out to Stillwater on Apple Plus, y'all,
it's so good for the kids. But now I'm just like, no,
we can find things to do with our time, yeah,
you know, or or it creates so much space for
him to bring in his curiosity and his ability to
(49:08):
create you know, what the conversation will be, and so yeah,
that's yeah, it.
Speaker 4 (49:14):
Creates special It creates space for those core memories that
he can look back on. I mean, how many memories
do you have of whatever was happening around you while
you were watching TV as a child.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
God, that's so real. You have no idea, no idea.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
I can remember smells, I can remember smells and sounds,
but like everything else, Yeah, I was completely distracted.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 4 (49:44):
Okay, you're doing a good job.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
I received that. He'll have his own opinion when he
becomes old enough, but.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
He will know I enjoyed him and he was loved
and I tried really hard. You will know that.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
You know. I have one more big question for you,
and then I want to invite you to share some
soul work with the audience. But you know, I think
something that might be going through everyone's head right now,
especially if this is landing in, you know.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
A deeper way or a newer way.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
Of understanding family dynamic. As people are kind of mulling
through some core memories or some themes in themselves, how
can people begin to identify the way in which generational
silence has affected them or the way in which they
may have inherited some of that inherited trauma. You know,
(50:37):
it may not be their exact experience, but something feels wrong.
How do they begin to start that walk?
Speaker 4 (50:45):
Yeah, I think I think recognizing where those blockages lie.
And for me, I looked at my marriage, and when
you're in a romantic relationship, or really any type of relationship,
it's like holding a mirror to yourself, and so you
(51:07):
are forced if you care enough about getting through all
the things with that other person who is so different
from you, you have to be able to explain yourself
and explain your responses and your triggers and all of
these things. And something that I didn't even realize was
an issue. I was so protective of my money and
(51:28):
keeping separate bank accounts was important to me, and I
didn't know why. I didn't want my husband to see
my spending habits. I didn't think it was any of
his business. I was like, yes, we're married, but why
do you need to see how I spend money? And
I recognized it was this insecurity that I had around
money because I didn't grow up with money, and I
(51:50):
didn't know what to do with money once I got it.
And so I married this man who was so educated
and knew how to invest money and build equity, and
I was just saving. I was putting money into a
savings account, and that was all that I knew to do.
(52:11):
And I was like, is something wrong with me?
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Is there? Like?
Speaker 4 (52:15):
What is this? And I looked at my parents, who
both went through bankruptcy. I looked at my grandparents who
were struggling to get by, and I realized that no
one had taught me about money. We didn't talk about it,
and even when I started making it, there was no
one to turn to to say what do I do
(52:36):
with this? How do I manage it? And so it's
recognizing that a lot of our setbacks and a lot
of our challenges stem from what we didn't know, and
sometimes that not the lack of knowledge comes from generational
the lack of generational experience with that thing. Yeah, And
(53:00):
so I think being really honest about ourselves and being
easier on ourselves, that this isn't just about you. It's
bigger than you. There's a reason you don't know, there's
a reason you don't know better, right, And so now
you can do the work to figure it out, but
(53:21):
you can also find out why you didn't know. And
that's really where I've been over the last few years,
is like, why didn't I know? And now that I do,
I can do better, but I can also look back
at my parents and say they didn't know and that
(53:41):
was okay.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Brava, yeah, wow, Yeah, You've been doing the deepest, deepest
layers of work and it's going to bear so much
fruit in your family tree.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
I hope.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
So it takes a lot of honesty and accountability, and
it takes a lot of vulnerability, and that those are
three things that I have been really working on channeling
for the last three years. Is just being so honest
with myself and accepting that I am this imperfect person
(54:19):
having a human experience, trying to figure it all out,
and I make mistakes and I may have hurt some
people as well, and I will do the work to
get better. If I want other people to do the same,
I have to give myself that grace.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
Gorgeously said yeah a Shay, Yes, yes, yes, God, thank you.
The last thing I will ask is if you would
share with our audience a little soul work. So it's
a way to integrate the episode. So whether that is
one of your personal tools or practices, one of your
(55:00):
favorite quotes, some self inquiry, anything to help better integrate
and kind of really sink into the savoring of this
episode and whatever the next step may be.
Speaker 4 (55:14):
Set the tone every day, in every space, set the tone.
I remember seeing on social media something about winning habits,
and a couple years ago, when I was really struggling
with my mental health and going into depression, I started
(55:37):
waking up and choosing what I believe were my winning habits,
and that was either starting the day with writing, walking,
or working out. And if I did at least one
of those things, even if for ten minutes every morning,
it's set the tone and put me in a better
(55:58):
place to respond to whatever challenges or chaos may arise.
I was ready because I would start the day setting
the tone with a winning habit. And I think it's
the same thing with energy. Sometimes we have fear around
how a conversation might go, how our needs may be
(56:21):
rejected by others in the workplace, and our relationships with
our family, and it's setting the tone that I am
walking in this space to give good energy, and I
am walking in this space to share my needs, and
if they are not met, they are at least heard.
(56:43):
And so I would say, always set the tone.
Speaker 3 (56:46):
I love that, I love that, and if they are
not met, they are always heard. Yeah, set the tone.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
That's good.
Speaker 4 (56:57):
Thank you. You set the tone everywhere you go. It's
a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing to experience. Anyone
who's ever met you knows. I was actually just talking
to a mutual friend of ours, Erica, and she was
saying that when you walk into a space, you just
carry this light with you, and that is setting the tone.
(57:18):
You know, you lift the spirits of others when you
walk into a room. It's a gift, but it's something
everyone is capable of doing if they're intentional about it.
Speaker 3 (57:28):
Thank you so much for saying that, And I really
receive that, and I just echo that too.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
All of us can do that for ourselves. All of
us can find the space to do that for others too,
you know. And it's like the more we do the work,
the more space there is to like light a fire
for yourself inside. And then it's not a lot of
work because you're just showing up in your own warmth
(57:56):
that you always hold.
Speaker 3 (57:58):
Yeah. Really beautiful. Book.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
Breaking Generational Silence, A Guide to disrupt unhealthy family patterns
and heal inherited trauma, by Nicole Russell Wharton.
Speaker 3 (58:10):
It is available.
Speaker 1 (58:11):
Everywhere audiobook, physical copy, kindle copy, all the places that
you get books get to the deeper layers of the work.
And you know, I want to say what I think
is so special and powerful about this book, and I
think could even be the position or statement, is that
(58:31):
it's the first in the things that I've seen, it
is the first book I've really seen be able to
create the bridge to community without yelling that it's about community, right,
And I think right now, as people do their own
internal work and investigation, there is that kind of void
(58:51):
space where you're like, how the hell do I go
back into the world, or how do I stay around
my family that also hurts me a little, or there
are all these things that are so hard to figure
out when you think you have done your all of
the work. And I think this book really beautifully gives
a deep understanding of what it is to be in
(59:15):
healing and bring that back into.
Speaker 3 (59:19):
The spaces that you love the most or.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
That are the most significant in your life. And that
is the harder part, but it is the most beautiful
part when you get to get to this point of
doing the work.
Speaker 4 (59:32):
Yeah, I think thank you for saying that, because a
lot of my work was centered around self, and it
was because of a response needed to deal or to
cope with the trauma for the kids that I work
with at the foundation, or even for myself telling myself
(59:54):
when my mother was gone that I didn't need anyone,
that I was enough and I was going to to
create this life for myself and I I am the
only thing that I need. And the revelation for me
was that I don't fully understand myself without being in
(01:00:16):
community with others. You can't fully heal in a room alone.
Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
That's it, that is it. There is only so much
understanding you can unlock in a silo. Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Yeah, yep yeah, Nicole, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
Thank you for having me. This is beautiful, such a privilege.
Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Check the show notes of this episode. You'll be able
to connect with Nicole's Instagram page, her website, and a
link to purchase this book now now now scroll down
into the show notes, get set up with all the info.
So grateful and so grateful for you listening and from home.
I am so glad you are on this journey. I
am so glad you are doing this work, and I
(01:01:06):
am so grateful I get to play a very tiny
part in that God blessed, no mistay say. The content
presented on Deeply Well serves solely for educational and informational purposes.
It should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical
(01:01:28):
or mental health guidance, and does not constitute a provider
patient relationship. As always, it is advisable to consult with
your healthcare provider or health team for any specific concerns
or questions that you may have. Connect with me on
social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or you
(01:01:48):
can go to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And
if you're listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget.
Please rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode to
a friend. Deeply Well is a production of iHeartRadio and
The Black Effect Network.
Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
It's produced by jacquesse.
Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown. The Beautiful Soundbath
You Heard That's by Jarrelyn Glass from Crystal Cadence. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Devi Brown
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