November 6, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of Deeply Well, Devi sits down with Dr. Zelana Montminy, a leading behavioral scientist and resilience expert, to discuss the urgent issue of focusing in our distraction-laden world. Dr. Zelana shares insights from her new book, 'Finding Focus: Own Your Attention in the Age of Distraction,' which offers practical strategies to reclaim mental clarity and emotional resilience. They cover the impacts of our hyperconnected lives on our well-being, the science behind attention and distraction, and the critical need for boredom in fostering creativity. Dr Zelena also touches on mindful parenting in the digital age, the cost of over-communication, and the importance of authentic human connections. Listeners are encouraged to identify their biggest distractors and make small changes, such as not waking up with their phones, to regain their focus and fortify their mental health.
Connect with Dr. Zelana
Dr. Zelanas Website: https://drzelana.com/
Dr. Zelana’s Book Finding Focus: https://drzelana.com/findingfocus
Dr. Zelana’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.zelana
✺
Connect with Devi:
Website: https://devibrownwellbeing.com/
Living In Wisdom Book: https://www.devibrown.com/book
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/devibrown/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deeplywellpod/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Take a deep breath in through your nose. Holds it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Now, release slowly again, deep in, helle.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Hold release, repeating internally to yourself as you connect to
my voice. I am deeply well. I am deeply well.
(01:22):
I am deeply I'm Debbie Brown and this is the
Deeply Well Podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on
your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,
and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care.
This is where we heal, this is where we transcend.
Welcome back to the show, everybody. This is deeply Well.
Of course, I'm your host, Debbie Brown. Today we're going
(02:03):
to be diving into a topic that feels honestly more
urgent than ever our ability to focus in a world
that's consistently constantly pulling at our attention, be it through screens,
our schedules, and just the endless noise of what it
is to be alive on earth as a modern human,
(02:27):
many of us are struggling to stay present to what
truly matters to us and to remember that there are
other ways to be even with all of this noise happening.
So today we're having a powerful conversation get your journals ready,
because honestly, we are going to have so many tips
and processes and kind of ways to work with your biology,
(02:48):
ways to work with your life. So I know this
episode is going to be one of those, y'all know
how it goes. Joining me in this conversation today is
someone who has been leading the way and helping us
understand how to reclaim our mental clarity and our emotional resilience.
Doctors the Lana Momony is a leading behavioral scientist, resilience expert,
(03:13):
and author dedicated to helping individuals and organizations thrive in
the face of modern stress and distraction. Her newest book,
Finding Focus, Own Your Attention in the Age of Distraction,
offers a science backed roadmap for reclaiming attention in today's
hyper connected world. Blending clinical psychology, nutrition, and holistic wellness,
(03:38):
doctor Momeni delivers practical strategies to sharpen focus for productivity
and the emotional resilience and meaningful connection that we all seek.
Her new book, which I really kind of want to
lean in and tell you all about because I think
you need it, it's called Finding Focus once Again, Own
your Attention in the Age of distract This creates action
(04:02):
plans to reclaim your focus, direct your attention and save
your mind. Save your minds, save your mind, save your
brain and an era of endless distractions. Our brains are
wired for focus, we are designed for it, we crave it,
and yet in our current age of overload, we often
feel like our minds are bolting from one distraction to
(04:23):
the next, with sustained focus always just kind of out
of reach. So finding focus is an empowering guide to
reclaiming your most precious resource, your attention. Leading behavioral scientists
of course, that we have today is veiling in this
book the science behind Focus and Distraction, revealing how our
hyper connected reality and that endless flux that goes on
(04:46):
between the digital world and the physical world, we are
living two realities. It fragments our thoughts and diminishes our
overall well being. So this book it equips you with
powerful strategies to silence the noise, rewire your brain, unleash
your potential, and rediscover yourself without further ado. Doctor Zielana,
(05:06):
thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
That was beautiful things. Oh my god, Well what's your work? Wow?
So when I first heard about your book. I'm someone
that is always trying to biohack myself, Like I am
always trying to find ways to do more with less,
to really like maximize the energetic potential, like get it
(05:32):
all out. I do a lot of good recovery for
myself too. But so when I heard about this, you know,
something I'm always thinking of, and I guess, kind of
even before I lock into the millions of questions I
have for you, something that I have been spending a
lot of time and thought on, is one how none
(05:52):
of us consented to being transformed into what we are
right now. Like I didn't know like when friend Finder first,
right and then that led to my Space, into Facebook,
into Instagram, that this would have to be a part
of every day of my life, and that like so
much of my life would eventually and societyally become interchained,
(06:16):
you know, interconnected with all of it. And it's just
like that's frightening to me. It's strange to me. And
I think we're living these two realities where you are
whoever you are with the screen in front of you,
and then you're who you are in your real life.
And I guess in your expertise and profession, like, how
do you see this moment in time for us?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Well, I think you've really articulated the crux of the
issue at the core is that we live in this
in between state constantly between our physical world and our
digital world, and we're just task switching and fluttering in between,
and it is exhausting because the human brain wasn't meant
(06:59):
to function under this kind of input and constant task switching.
So what we see as exhaustion or burnout or discontent
or issues with our relationships or our kids or our
work is really, honestly, at the core, our inability to
(07:20):
keep up in a way that biologically we weren't meant to. Yeah,
and you know, people talk about evolution and we adjust
to whatever is put in front of us, and the
reality is, from a neuropsychological perspective, we just can't. We
really can't adjust to this. The input is just it's
too much, and our nervous system is always dysregulated essentially
(07:45):
because of it. And so really that's why I wrote
the book, not as a productivity tool. It's actually almost
the reverse. It's like we need to come back to
what makes us human, because what is cur only happening
is is just it's it's I believe to be one
(08:06):
of the biggest epidemics of our generation.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh my god. Like even as you're talking right now,
it's like, oh man.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
And again, I don't want anyone listening to this to
feel ashamed. This is not a personal struggle. This is
a collective issue. And as you said, you know we
are you know, our our attention is their profit margin,
and so what willever, whatever they can do to hijack
(08:36):
us in that way, it's going to happen. And again,
it's not to demonize any one particular company or whatever
it is. It's just they they know that that's that's
that's easy. And here we are giving away our power. Yeah,
you know, our ability to focus is our human birthright
(08:56):
and we just can't. We've lost touch with that muscle.
And it's something we have to exercise consistently and work
on and build, and it is eroding the very foundation
of what makes us connect and to ourselves into each other.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
This is the conversation the world needs. Oh my god.
You know, what is something that I think about within
this is like, you know, when we're speaking about the
fact that we're actually not built or designed to be
doing any of this as human beings like our biology,
which is like our human technology. Yes we are not.
It feels almost like sometimes like we are that missing
(09:40):
link in science, like when people study us thousands of
years from now that we're going to be the generation
that pulled evolution forward, but we were kind of the
test subjects, yes to whatever this this new technologically, you know,
focused new world is going to be, which is already becoming,
Like anywhere I go on there are cars that are
(10:01):
driving themselves. We are in the future, you know, we
have AI we have and the rapid speed within which
all this is happening, and I think we there is
this and I would love to hear I mean, because
this is just like my thought and assumption, but with
the science behind it, you know, it seems like the
(10:25):
ways that we are stretching ourselves like we really don't
understand the cost of what this is becoming inside of us.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yes, yes, and that's that's honestly. The biggest cost of
that is our essentially our dissociation from ourselves and our relationships.
And when you look at the research and the science
on what really sort of helps us thrive. Of course,
it's all the foundational stuff like nutrition and sleep and
all of that that I also talk about in the book,
(10:53):
but a lot of it is actually connection. It's human connection,
and that has completely eroded and one of the biggest
costs of our attention economy essentially. But I do want
to bring up a point that goes a step beyond technology,
because I know, yes, of course devices technology that is
(11:14):
eroding our focus, probably the most because it's the easiest,
the quickest, we have it in our pocket.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
It's it's ubiquitous, right.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
But I also think that we are so we are
not able to sit with our discomfort, right because of
our escapism and the ability like we're just totally numbed out.
It's so much easier to triple screen, you know, and
like binge watch Netflix while buying groceries and checking emails
at the same time, while also sitting next to our
(11:42):
partners and pretending that we're spending time together, right, Like,
It's so much easier to do that than to have
the tough conversations like I don't like the way you
spoke to me this morning and it's not okay with me,
But I'd rather just watch Netflix and not deal with that, right,
So we're numbed out. So, yes, devices are sort of
the tool, the easy symptom, but below that, we're escaping
(12:06):
the discomfort of being human and wow, we have sort
of we've become so used to that that in addition
to devices, something else we do all the time is
just say yes too much, or not have the right boundaries,
or fill our days and say that we're you know,
successful or ambitious, but really that's just a mask for
(12:30):
not wanting to sit with ourselves and the issues that
we face or the trauma that we haven't really dealt with. Right,
So it's these So it's also the fact that we're
just we're performing wellness and we're seeing yes to so
many things, saying that that's what success means, but really
does it? So I think we just there's a line
(12:54):
too with yes, it's devices, but also how are we
sitting with our discomfort? How are we practicing our humanity?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah? Right, how that's also a cause of humanity. I
don't know what is right or wrong, but I do
know we are looking at what does that actually cost us?
Like what does what is the toll of this? Much
like micro and macro information.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Yeah, I mean, and when you think about it, you
you want to be you want to do the most
you can for for let's say, society or humanity or
whatever it is your cause. Activism only works when you're
really focused, right, It's it's like it rested. Yeah, if
you're just like in this nebulous like knowing everything, trying
(13:41):
dabbling in everything, trying to have a voice in everything,
it's never it's going to be diluted.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
That's good.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
So so we can't we shouldn't know everything about everyone everywhere.
We just cannot or.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Not allow ourselves to lock you into everything. Yeah, And just.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
It's almost like, yeah, we can passively sort of see it,
and I even find myself and it worries me when
I see, you know, extreme trauma elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Right, let's just say.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
And I almost don't even react anymore because it's become
so common and my nervous, like I just don't even
know what I can do, and I feel so helpless
and hopeless, and I know other people feel the same way.
And so I truly believe that we need to become
(14:35):
fiercely aware of this and edit our space or information
where we get things from whom and really become much
more focused about what it is we care about. Yeah, right, yeah,
because even our ability to care is at stake. And
(14:55):
I know that sounds really big, but if you think
about it, it is.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It really is. What you're talking about right now just
feels so affirming to me as a woman with where
I'm at in my process, because I think I have
kind of intuitively been understanding that I can't care about
as much as I've cared about. And I'm talking about people, places,
and things and really with no judgment and not even
(15:22):
in like you know, I'm cutting people off kind of
a way of course, but you know or or you know, yeah,
like I've I've had to really thoughtfully sunset things that
I was doing for work. I've had to take distance
from people right now because I've found that, you know,
for me, a boundary in friendship that I'm really clear
(15:44):
on has become like I can't be in friendship with
emotionally immature adults. And that is not that I'm not
saying that term as a criticism. It's an actual term,
you know, with a set of behavioral standards underneath it.
But I realize what I was thinking of, like what
pulls my time or what gives me charge, what doesn't
(16:06):
feel congruent in my life. It's just like, oh, it's
the situations where for some people emotionally their integrity is
always going to fluctuate based on how they're feeling in
the moment, and even pulling that focus back and realizing
how much focus went to that, even just silently, you know,
(16:26):
just in witnessing it. But also the same thing with
like I love that you're talking about getting use your
passion and use your power, but don't dilute it trying
to give a teeny tiny bit to everything, Like find
the things that you are actually deeply aligned with and
can have like effect on in presence with, and then
(16:47):
go all in with those things. But that also like
saves your brain.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
It does, because here's something that we never really think
about but is a scientific truth. Our attention is finite.
We run around thinking it's just infinite. We can just
give it to anything everywhere, all the time and whatever,
dabble there's this that, and yet no.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It e roads we what does that mean? It means
that we only have.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
A certain amount of attention to give every day.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Really, yes, okay, hold on because I've never heard that before.
I think, especially as women, we are the greatest multitaskers
on earth to our detriment, and I want to get
into Yes, that's a whole other Yeah, I never it
never occurred to me that there is actually this like
(17:38):
reservoir that's on tap as, right, and attention that could
run dry. Scientifically, what's happening, Well.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
I mean really it's it's a whole cocktail of hormones
and chemicals and neuro transmitters. But really, you know, when
you wake up in the morning, let's say, your brain
is sort of like we cement. I like to use
that metaphor, and so when we wake up and grab
our phone, I'm just giving examples, right, Like most of us,
we make imprints, and we start our days in everyone
(18:07):
else's life other than our own, right, And so now
we're imprinting on our wet cement all these other things
that take up space in our brain, and our attention
goes to all these things, and then we kind of
go about our day and everything feels urgent even though
it's not, and everything requires attention, and we try to prioritize,
(18:30):
and you know, it's just and so our attention reservoir.
I mean, there isn't like a physical reservoir for attention,
but if you think about it, sort of chemically, our
nervous system can only take so much throughout the day,
and our attention sort of fluctuates. The way we regain
sort of clips of attention is by this deep reset
(18:51):
or or sort of going into this resting mode of
our brain that you may have heard about, and it's
like a deep reset. Boredom, for example, helps with that
deep reset. We never are board anymore. So we're just
like running on this unreal, bizarre We just are running
out our attention reservoirs every single day. We listen to
(19:14):
a podcast maybe while driving, which I love podcasts, by
the way, right of course, but we're constantly we're constantly consuming.
Our brain cannot constantly consume, so our attention bank decreases, decreases, decreases,
and while and then let's also throw in the multitasking piece,
(19:35):
which actually doesn't exist. Our brain cannot multitask, so I
call it task switching. Every time we switch tasks, it
takes about twenty three to twenty five minutes, not seconds.
I did not misspeak minutes to go back to whatever
it is to refocus.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
So we're losing hours every single day just by trying
to be good at whatever it is we're doing and
do multiple things.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
So by the end of the day we're spent. Yeah,
and guess what, It's not just our job or our
failed relationships or our kids or whatever it is that
we think it is. It's that we we have just
totally exhausted our attention reservoir and our nervous system is
now trying to catch up. And again you ask about
(20:27):
like the chemical process, Yes, like we release cortisol, which
spikes our stress hormones. We release all these different hormones
that are involved in the attention sort of capacity. But
that's almost like too technical because if you think about it,
it's like it's we wake up with a very finite
amount that we can attune to anything, because the human
(20:49):
brain isn't meant to just attune for you know, eons,
especially not with everything coming at us. In addition to
you know.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
What it is that it was so oh wow.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
We're just eroded. Yeah, and no wonder We're we're flailing
and we're just we're spent.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Deeply, Well, what.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Is happening to us? I guess when we do pour
attention into a screen, right, and what has been happening
to us? Because you know the thing that people say,
like creatively, like for people that identify as creators on Instagram,
right like, everyone says, oh, you got to make it quicker,
you got to make it faster, because our attention spans
(21:36):
are so low. And I'm just like, I'm someone that
loves long form content personally, so I'm just like, so
when did that happen? And does it keep getting lower
and lower?
Speaker 4 (21:47):
So our brain is a muscle and whatever we train
it to do is what it seeks. So when we
expose it to this quick form content, it's going to
seek out quick form content because that's the fastest way
to get a dopamine hit. The mean is sort of
that feel good chemical that makes us feel like we're rewarded.
And so it's what companies have figured out is this,
(22:08):
like the short form content gives us that quick dopamine.
We don't have to work hard for it. We can
just keep doing it and it's like this reward loop
and we feel good about it. But it's all super
super surface, and we have trained our brain to know
that we don't have to do anything to feel good.
It used to be like we you know, a kid
would have to go and practice let's say getting a
(22:31):
soccer ball in the net. You practice for hours, so
when you finally got that goal, you feel so good
about it. That's your dopamine loops. That's the kind of
dopamine that we want to train our brain to get. Yeah,
because we're equating work practice motivation with a reward. But
what we have now trained our brain to seek is
(22:55):
the lazy reward, like the reward of just sitting on
the couch and consuming cons in consuming, and we're still
getting that quick twitch dopamine, yeah, but it's not couched
with any kind of motivation. And then we wonder why
we don't really want to do much? Right, So we're
retraining our brain. So that's really what that short form
content is. It's a way of hijacking our brain just
(23:16):
a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
So fascinating, How I mean, how do we begin to
retrain our brain? I know I heard something that you
said was like how how important and nourishing boredom is
for us? Yes, yes, and that is now that is
something and especially like when I think back to early
experiences teaching meditation. That was something I had to really
(23:39):
like in the process, design some language around for people,
like why being still in quiet can be just torturous? Right?
Speaker 4 (23:48):
You know, right now, meditation and boredem are not the
same thing total because you're still actively engaging in something.
But you know, boredom is just very healthy. And I
almost like ask people to prescribe moments of boredom to
themselves because it's really not something that we allow space
for anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
But that's really what does that look like?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Okay, so it could look like just looking out the
window for a minute and kind of zoning out. It's
what we call being unproductive and zoning out and potentially
being lazy, but actually it's extremely nourishing. Now that's not
your excuse to just be lazy and not do anything,
but it is. It can look like even three minutes
or five minutes, and it is such a powerful reset
(24:32):
because our brain just is this like blank slate, right,
And that's honestly where the most creative ideas in humanity
have come from. Creativity is born within the boredom network
and the system that is required from the brain, so
the reset mode. So when we aren't you know, problem
(24:53):
solving effectively or having great ideas. I often say, try
a bit of boredom, like try not schedule something, try
to not do anything. It's almost like retraining the brain.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Now.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
I think this also sort of feeds into a conversation
about taking breaks. I think a lot of people these
days say, well, you know, I focus for you know,
sixty minutes or whatever it is that I you know,
block out and then I just take a break. And
that's fine, right, No, because every break is so different.
If you're just scrolling Netflix or you're just like looking
(25:28):
at cat videos on YouTube, that's not a break. Yeah,
it feels like a break. It's like I just want
to I just want to veg out and just take
a break. That's not a break. You're still consuming content.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Right totally.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
So your brain isn't actually reset much. It's so much
it's no wonder we're also tired, truly, Like it's such
an unreal amount of information all the time.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, you know, I had read this thing a couple
of years ago, and I find myself like always kind
of speaking to it. But I'd love to ask you
your thoughts on this. There was this like bit of
information that was kind of going around the internet that
said we think more in a single day than like
(26:12):
our ancestors thought in a lifetime. And instantly I was like,
that could absolutely be true. I could see how that
is true because the variety of things you know about
is what you think about. Yes, that is true.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
And also I think it it's also to do with
sort of the invisible and emotional labor that we carry
daily in addition to our actual thoughts.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Right.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
So there's there's so many layers to being human these days, right,
And so you know, it's it's all of the tasks
that we're thinking about that we don't actively think about maybe,
but that's sort of embedded in our subconscious like we
sort of just it's like a knee jerk thing, or
it's like the mental labor of getting a task done.
It's not just the task, like even scheduling a doctor's appointment, right,
(27:04):
It's not just picking up the phone and scheduling the appointment, right,
It's like looking at your calendar trying to fit it in,
thinking about which doctor to go to, what do you need.
It's a million different things before you actually get to
the task, right, the task at hand. So I think
it's really important that you know, we've sort of complicated
(27:26):
living in a way, right, Yeah, because of and it's
not really our fall at all, it's just the way
society operates. There's so many different calendars to look at
these days, there's so many ways to connect and to communicate.
That's a whole other conversation is the over communication, the DMS,
the text like the slack that this it's.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Just too much.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
And so you know, we've gone from dating and partnerships
to having some sort of seduction and space away from
each other, and now it's just this constant and looking
at the three dots wondering like is he gonna respond?
Like he goes that it right, So it's just that's
a whole other thing. But you know, I just it's
it's it's important to think about, you know, all of
(28:11):
the things that we carry. So that's what when I
say the mental labor, the emotional labor, the invisible labor
of functioning, especially with being a woman, that's you know,
you touched upon that. But there's so much culturally that
is expected of us that we've played into that because
we have to. And it's sort of just the role
(28:32):
that we've been placed into that's just really coming at
a very very high cost. And you know, for example,
I have so many clients that say, well, I'm just
I'm just good at multitasking, like I'm better than multitasking,
at multitasking than men. And the reality is, scientifically, no,
(28:53):
there is no gender difference. In fact, our brain cannot multitask.
We've just been told sort of this myth that we
should and can to get more done, and really, not
only are we getting less done because we lose about
forty percent productivity when we try to multitask, and that
twenty three to twenty five minutes of lost time every
(29:14):
time we task switch, but also the cost is us
our essence, like who we are as a human being?
What are we left with at the end of the day,
What are we left with? And so I really think
that yes, of course, as we age, hormones come into
play and all the brain fog and all of that
is real, But I also think that our brain fog
(29:37):
is exponentially higher because we've spent a lifetime trying to
keep up and biologically, neurologically we just can't and we shouldn't.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Wow, wow, wow, this is fascinating I'm so curious. You
know what led you to this work?
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Well, I mean it's really all of my clients and
the work I've done. It's just that so many people
are always normalizing burnout and dissociation and disconnection, and I
wanted to get to the core of what it what
it really is about. And I refuse to believe it
was just the job, right, or the husband or the kids,
(30:26):
like it's got There's got to be something more. And
everything pointed to to our inability to sustain focus and
our and to own our attention.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
So when you were first setting on your path because
to to kind of I mean, this book is a
facet of course of your work, but it's it's rooted
in you know, a very very long time in your
field and all that it takes to you know, become
a doctor. What what kind of sparked your desire to
be a behavioral scientist? Like what were you just kind
(30:59):
of as like a a young girl, like watching humanity
and like why do people do what they do? Totally act? Really?
Speaker 4 (31:05):
I was, Yeah, I was always so curious about why
two people would have the same life experience but react
totally differently. Yeah, And I was the kid at summer
camp where like if someone was crying in the bathroom
dealing with an issue that had nothing to do with me,
I was that kid that would kind of approach and
try to help and sit with them and hold space.
(31:27):
And so I was just always that kind of person.
And I was always very curious about what behavior was
all about, what made people react a certain way, what
is regulation? Like, what is all of this? And does
how does happiness and joy and choices inform our outcomes? Yeah,
(31:49):
and so that's what I wanted to study and to
help guide.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I so deeply relate to that. I was that kind
of intuitive child looking at the adults around me. Yeah,
really fascinated by the way they made choices. Yes, and
then like the long term toll of those choices and yeah,
so so interesting is something I would really love to
get in with you. We were talking a little bit
(32:15):
before the show about parenting, and I know you have
a thirteen year old and eleven year old and a
five year old. You were in the extremes right now,
but you also, you know, just kind of parenting through
your lens with all that you understand about how this
world is affecting us in our brains. How much does
(32:38):
that drive your parenting? And like, what are some of
the kind of distinct pillars of your parenting.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I it's my
training is everywhere, and I try really hard, you know,
not to wear that hat per se, but it's infused
into everything I do. And again, there's no perfection, right, Like,
I'm right there with you, struggling to you know, regulate
(33:05):
myself and knowing that my children borrow regulation. I'm trying
to be patient. I'm trying to repair when I need
to because I'm human. I'm trying to also not I'm
trying to model what I preach, which is not beyond
devices as much, which is hard because my whole world
exists on a device. Even my car needs my device.
(33:26):
I don't actually have a key because I have an
electric car. You know, It's like it's wild. I can
get into my house with my phone. I don't even
have a set of keys, Like it's the whole thing.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I need my phone to turn on my fans, like
it's insane. Don't need another app?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Yes, totally, And so I look at that and it's
it's hard. I think it's really hard to be a
kid these days too, and I'm seeing this more and more.
I mean, it's really hard to parent in the device age,
but it's also hard to be a kid. I see
this with my thirteen year old, and we're a very
sort of low device now device family, given my training
(34:04):
and my work with common sense media and all the things.
But now that he's in middle school, my eldest, I
see how pervasive device usage is and how these kids
communicate only mostly on devices, and it's hard. It's hard
(34:26):
to keep stay true to what you know is right,
but be so sort of such an outlier. And I'm
so grateful that phones are not, as you know, have
been mostly Most schools have taken away phones, which is great,
but they've been replaced now by computers. And the kids
are these on these computers now, and they can still
(34:48):
text through their computer and the game on the it's
just a whole thing. And I see how much it
affects their inability to connect and cultivate friendships more easily.
These just play outside, right, and now that doesn't really
exist anymore. We have like living room kids. Not me
per se, but you know, generally, and it's just harder
it's harder to advise, it's harder to lead. But I
(35:11):
always say I do a lot of work with schools
and actually universities too, and with parents, and there's so
many things you can say as a parent, but really,
as we know, it's so much about what you do.
And I think we're all going to make mistakes. We're
all going to stare at our phones when our kid
is trying to talk to us sometimes and be so
(35:32):
engrossed in whatever it is that we don't don't even
hear them. I get that that's just the reality of
being human these days. It's important to call that out, like, yeah,
make mistakes, but then say, hey, you know what, I'm
so sorry. I just I realized that I was stuck
in this work email, and I really what you have
to say is so important. I'm gonna put that down
right now. Or you can say, you know what, I
(35:54):
really have to address this. What you have to say
is important. I'm gonna come back to you in five
to ten whatever it is minutes. Or you can say, hey,
I'm just staring at a recipe. I don't want you
to think I'm not listening, but I need to look
at this right now. Because I'm putting something in the oven,
whatever it is, but articulate it because you're essentially walking
them through your process, which is going to help their
(36:14):
process because they're trying to They're looking at you trying
to figure out, like how am I going to function
in this world?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Like how do I figure this out? And they're probably
looking at you on your phone like what are you
doing on there? Like what is it?
Speaker 4 (36:25):
What is more important than me?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah? What's more important than me?
Speaker 4 (36:30):
And they know cognitively that life like that the devices
are required in life, they do know that, but intrinsically
in their self worth, their brain and their body can't
make that distinction.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
So what our kids are growing up with and why
I think partly not wholly, but partly anxieties is such
an all time high with our youth is that there's
just this like this pervasive friction and this disc with
knowing that I'm more I'm not more important than whatever
(37:07):
is going on on that bone. Yeah, and my parent
isn't present in my life in that same way that
our parents used to be. And I do want to
make sure that people understand that it's not about giving
your full time and attention your kids all the time.
That's super unhealthy too, But it's about really about sort
of the quality of your interactions and the attention with
which you give to them in those moments. There was
(37:31):
a really interesting study that showed that it's not the
amount of time that we spend with our kids that
cultivates success and joy for them. It's really just with
that those attentive moments. It's it's actually a very short
amount of time that makes imprints, yeah, and little births
of memory, core memories, and just just being being in
that moment whatever it is you're doing with them is
(37:54):
so much more impactful than spending a whole day with
them distracted. Yeah, you know, So don't feel guilty if
you're like out or working or doing whatever. They don't
actually need so much of you. They just need you
when you're there.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
And let your kids be bored, yes, oh my gosh, don't.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Don't.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
And that's so hard as they get older too, because
they have so many interests they want to pursue things,
which is great. So again lots of conversations about what
that looks like, how do we build in downtime? So
now it's the reverse conversation. It's not you know, how
do we add more activities? It's like, how do we
add in downtime? How do we add in boredom?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Mom?
Speaker 4 (38:37):
What do I do now? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I know.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
What I do know is that you're creative enough to
figure it out.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, you know, yeah, I think long term, that's going
to be the real luxury that we get to give
our kids by teaching them these very human skills, like
they're gonna have to Obviously they're going to be in
society as adults, they'll catch up on whatever the things are.
But like that is the luxury, like being able to
(39:04):
give your kids space to be bored.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
You know, if you can build in those moments, that's
where their creative freedom will really just thrive. And it
is literally going to become a superpower to be able
to sustain eye contact. I mean I'm talking like a
basic human connection. If your kid can master that, now,
(39:29):
that's going to become their superpower because it's going to
be so rare, it's going to be so rich. I
already see it. They don't know how to really talk.
It's just wild, and you know you can have I've
worked with someone who was a dean at Stanford, and
I remember her telling me, you know, these kids are
so accomplished, they're extraordinary humans. They are so inempt and
(39:54):
that broke my heart. Wow, because they just don't know
how to do fundamental human things right and they just
want their parents to fix things. And it's in the
best intentions. We love our kids, but we really need
to like gift them the space to feel challenged and
(40:17):
work through it on their own.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Give your kids wisdom, guide them, teach them things, talk
to them, give them an understanding of how to be
human in the world and move in the world with
other people.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
And the space to do that right, because it's one
thing to like we can talk a lot and we
can guide them certainly, but if we don't give them
the space to practice, they're never going to learn.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
And as parents, like that is I mean, we signed
up for that, and it does take intentional time to
do that. It does take a little bit of like
practicing with your own self, working with your own nervous
system regulation and emotional regulation. But like you know, you
you have to like really witness your kids, like you
(41:07):
have to, as you know you said, it's like there
is guidance, and then there's also that space of like
deep observation and witnessing of your kids.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
And witnessing and allowing them to feel friction right and
to Yeah, but it starts with us. It starts starts
with us. It starts and ends with us. So it's
like it's really important that you put in the work
to cultivate your attention and your focus and give them
that space to do the same.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, it's beautiful, so powerful and important deeply. Well, well,
before we end the episode, I always offer some space
for our experts to give what I like to call
soul work, So is something to integrate everything that we've
(41:58):
heard practice a thoughts star gosh, I think.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
You know. I always say that people should audit their
day and figure out what is your biggest sort of
a distractor and start with that. So it doesn't have
to feel overwhelming that all of a sudden you have
to let go of all these things or feel so
uncomfortable or you know, change a million habits at once.
Just start with one. What is your biggest distractor? If
(42:25):
it's your phone, if it's your notifications, Like, what is
it about the phone. It can't just be the phone.
But it's like something about the phone. What are you
trying to escape when you're on the phone, when you
pick up that phone, what are you trying to distract
yourself from? And so really try to do some deeper
work to peel those layers, because it's not just the
(42:45):
phone that's the issue. It's really something that we're trying
to escape, And so start there and troubleshoot that. And
if it's if it's the phone that's the issue, or
the pickup or whatever, it's so much harder for us
to get distracted when we physically make it harder for
ourselves to grab the phone. So leave it in another room.
(43:07):
My biggest like quick quick thing is don't wake up
with your phone, Like just don't look at your phone
even five minutes. Yeah, start with five minutes, start with
one minute. If it's like super super hard for you, right,
And yes, you can buy an alarm clock. You don't
need your phone for that, right. So, unless you have
babies where it's required to stare at your phone to
look at the baby monitor, leave the phone in another room,
(43:29):
don't pick it up right when you wake up. You
will be astounded by how transformational just that one thing
is for your life.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Oh my gosh, perfect. Yes, yeah, that is a powerful tool.
Thank you so much for joining us on the show
to this was absolutely fascinating. Your new book is available
everywhere right now, everyone go get it Finding Focus, own
your attention and the age of Distraction and all the
links will be linked below. But how can everyone connect
(44:01):
with you?
Speaker 4 (44:02):
My website Doctorslana dot com, drz l Ana dot com,
tons of free resources and my instagram you'll feel keep
up with me and everywhere I go and what I.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Do amazing everything linked in the show notes of this episode.
Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Thank you for having me. This is wonderful.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Back next week now, Misdayday. The content presented on Deeply
Wells serves solely for educational and informational purposes. It should
not be considered a replacement for personalized medical or mental
health guidance and does not constitute a provider patient relationship.
(44:43):
As always, it is advisable to consult with your healthcare
provider or health team for any specific concerns or questions
that you may have. Connect with me on social at
Debbie Brown that's Twitter and Instagram, or you can go
to my website Debbie Brown and if you're listening to
the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget, Please rate, review,
(45:06):
and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Deeply
Well is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network.
It's produced by Jacquess Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown.
The Beautiful Soundbath You heard That's by Jarrelyn Glass from
Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio
(45:28):
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Take a deep breath in through your nose. Holds it.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Now, release slowly again, deep in, helle.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Hold release, repeating internally to yourself as you connect to
my voice. I am deeply well. I am deeply well.
(01:22):
I am deeply I'm Debbie Brown and this is the
Deeply Well Podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on
your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,
and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care.
This is where we heal, this is where we transcend.
Welcome back to the show, everybody. This is deeply Well.
Of course, I'm your host, Debbie Brown. Today we're going
(02:03):
to be diving into a topic that feels honestly more
urgent than ever our ability to focus in a world
that's consistently constantly pulling at our attention, be it through screens,
our schedules, and just the endless noise of what it
is to be alive on earth as a modern human,
(02:27):
many of us are struggling to stay present to what
truly matters to us and to remember that there are
other ways to be even with all of this noise happening.
So today we're having a powerful conversation get your journals ready,
because honestly, we are going to have so many tips
and processes and kind of ways to work with your biology,
(02:48):
ways to work with your life. So I know this
episode is going to be one of those, y'all know
how it goes. Joining me in this conversation today is
someone who has been leading the way and helping us
understand how to reclaim our mental clarity and our emotional resilience.
Doctors the Lana Momony is a leading behavioral scientist, resilience expert,
(03:13):
and author dedicated to helping individuals and organizations thrive in
the face of modern stress and distraction. Her newest book,
Finding Focus, Own Your Attention in the Age of Distraction,
offers a science backed roadmap for reclaiming attention in today's
hyper connected world. Blending clinical psychology, nutrition, and holistic wellness,
(03:38):
doctor Momeni delivers practical strategies to sharpen focus for productivity
and the emotional resilience and meaningful connection that we all seek.
Her new book, which I really kind of want to
lean in and tell you all about because I think
you need it, it's called Finding Focus once Again, Own
your Attention in the Age of distract This creates action
(04:02):
plans to reclaim your focus, direct your attention and save
your mind. Save your minds, save your mind, save your
brain and an era of endless distractions. Our brains are
wired for focus, we are designed for it, we crave it,
and yet in our current age of overload, we often
feel like our minds are bolting from one distraction to
(04:23):
the next, with sustained focus always just kind of out
of reach. So finding focus is an empowering guide to
reclaiming your most precious resource, your attention. Leading behavioral scientists
of course, that we have today is veiling in this
book the science behind Focus and Distraction, revealing how our
hyper connected reality and that endless flux that goes on
(04:46):
between the digital world and the physical world, we are
living two realities. It fragments our thoughts and diminishes our
overall well being. So this book it equips you with
powerful strategies to silence the noise, rewire your brain, unleash
your potential, and rediscover yourself without further ado. Doctor Zielana,
(05:06):
thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
That was beautiful things. Oh my god, Well what's your work? Wow?
So when I first heard about your book. I'm someone
that is always trying to biohack myself, Like I am
always trying to find ways to do more with less,
to really like maximize the energetic potential, like get it
(05:32):
all out. I do a lot of good recovery for
myself too. But so when I heard about this, you know,
something I'm always thinking of, and I guess, kind of
even before I lock into the millions of questions I
have for you, something that I have been spending a
lot of time and thought on, is one how none
(05:52):
of us consented to being transformed into what we are
right now. Like I didn't know like when friend Finder first,
right and then that led to my Space, into Facebook,
into Instagram, that this would have to be a part
of every day of my life, and that like so
much of my life would eventually and societyally become interchained,
(06:16):
you know, interconnected with all of it. And it's just
like that's frightening to me. It's strange to me. And
I think we're living these two realities where you are
whoever you are with the screen in front of you,
and then you're who you are in your real life.
And I guess in your expertise and profession, like, how
do you see this moment in time for us?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Well, I think you've really articulated the crux of the
issue at the core is that we live in this
in between state constantly between our physical world and our
digital world, and we're just task switching and fluttering in between,
and it is exhausting because the human brain wasn't meant
(06:59):
to function under this kind of input and constant task switching.
So what we see as exhaustion or burnout or discontent
or issues with our relationships or our kids or our
work is really, honestly, at the core, our inability to
(07:20):
keep up in a way that biologically we weren't meant to. Yeah,
and you know, people talk about evolution and we adjust
to whatever is put in front of us, and the
reality is, from a neuropsychological perspective, we just can't. We
really can't adjust to this. The input is just it's
too much, and our nervous system is always dysregulated essentially
(07:45):
because of it. And so really that's why I wrote
the book, not as a productivity tool. It's actually almost
the reverse. It's like we need to come back to
what makes us human, because what is cur only happening
is is just it's it's I believe to be one
(08:06):
of the biggest epidemics of our generation.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh my god. Like even as you're talking right now,
it's like, oh man.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
And again, I don't want anyone listening to this to
feel ashamed. This is not a personal struggle. This is
a collective issue. And as you said, you know we
are you know, our our attention is their profit margin,
and so what willever, whatever they can do to hijack
(08:36):
us in that way, it's going to happen. And again,
it's not to demonize any one particular company or whatever
it is. It's just they they know that that's that's
that's easy. And here we are giving away our power. Yeah,
you know, our ability to focus is our human birthright
(08:56):
and we just can't. We've lost touch with that muscle.
And it's something we have to exercise consistently and work
on and build, and it is eroding the very foundation
of what makes us connect and to ourselves into each other.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
This is the conversation the world needs. Oh my god.
You know, what is something that I think about within
this is like, you know, when we're speaking about the
fact that we're actually not built or designed to be
doing any of this as human beings like our biology,
which is like our human technology. Yes we are not.
It feels almost like sometimes like we are that missing
(09:40):
link in science, like when people study us thousands of
years from now that we're going to be the generation
that pulled evolution forward, but we were kind of the
test subjects, yes to whatever this this new technologically, you know,
focused new world is going to be, which is already becoming,
Like anywhere I go on there are cars that are
(10:01):
driving themselves. We are in the future, you know, we
have AI we have and the rapid speed within which
all this is happening, and I think we there is
this and I would love to hear I mean, because
this is just like my thought and assumption, but with
the science behind it, you know, it seems like the
(10:25):
ways that we are stretching ourselves like we really don't
understand the cost of what this is becoming inside of us.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Yes, yes, and that's that's honestly. The biggest cost of
that is our essentially our dissociation from ourselves and our relationships.
And when you look at the research and the science
on what really sort of helps us thrive. Of course,
it's all the foundational stuff like nutrition and sleep and
all of that that I also talk about in the book,
(10:53):
but a lot of it is actually connection. It's human connection,
and that has completely eroded and one of the biggest
costs of our attention economy essentially. But I do want
to bring up a point that goes a step beyond technology,
because I know, yes, of course devices technology that is
(11:14):
eroding our focus, probably the most because it's the easiest,
the quickest, we have it in our pocket.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
It's it's ubiquitous, right.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
But I also think that we are so we are
not able to sit with our discomfort, right because of
our escapism and the ability like we're just totally numbed out.
It's so much easier to triple screen, you know, and
like binge watch Netflix while buying groceries and checking emails
at the same time, while also sitting next to our
(11:42):
partners and pretending that we're spending time together, right, Like,
It's so much easier to do that than to have
the tough conversations like I don't like the way you
spoke to me this morning and it's not okay with me,
But I'd rather just watch Netflix and not deal with that, right,
So we're numbed out. So, yes, devices are sort of
the tool, the easy symptom, but below that, we're escaping
(12:06):
the discomfort of being human and wow, we have sort
of we've become so used to that that in addition
to devices, something else we do all the time is
just say yes too much, or not have the right boundaries,
or fill our days and say that we're you know,
successful or ambitious, but really that's just a mask for
(12:30):
not wanting to sit with ourselves and the issues that
we face or the trauma that we haven't really dealt with. Right,
So it's these So it's also the fact that we're
just we're performing wellness and we're seeing yes to so
many things, saying that that's what success means, but really
does it? So I think we just there's a line
(12:54):
too with yes, it's devices, but also how are we
sitting with our discomfort? How are we practicing our humanity?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah? Right, how that's also a cause of humanity. I
don't know what is right or wrong, but I do
know we are looking at what does that actually cost us?
Like what does what is the toll of this? Much
like micro and macro information.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Yeah, I mean, and when you think about it, you
you want to be you want to do the most
you can for for let's say, society or humanity or
whatever it is your cause. Activism only works when you're
really focused, right, It's it's like it rested. Yeah, if
you're just like in this nebulous like knowing everything, trying
(13:41):
dabbling in everything, trying to have a voice in everything,
it's never it's going to be diluted.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
That's good.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
So so we can't we shouldn't know everything about everyone everywhere.
We just cannot or.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Not allow ourselves to lock you into everything. Yeah, And just.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
It's almost like, yeah, we can passively sort of see it,
and I even find myself and it worries me when
I see, you know, extreme trauma elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Right, let's just say.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
And I almost don't even react anymore because it's become
so common and my nervous, like I just don't even
know what I can do, and I feel so helpless
and hopeless, and I know other people feel the same way.
And so I truly believe that we need to become
(14:35):
fiercely aware of this and edit our space or information
where we get things from whom and really become much
more focused about what it is we care about. Yeah, right, yeah,
because even our ability to care is at stake. And
(14:55):
I know that sounds really big, but if you think
about it, it is.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It really is. What you're talking about right now just
feels so affirming to me as a woman with where
I'm at in my process, because I think I have
kind of intuitively been understanding that I can't care about
as much as I've cared about. And I'm talking about people, places,
and things and really with no judgment and not even
(15:22):
in like you know, I'm cutting people off kind of
a way of course, but you know or or you know, yeah,
like I've I've had to really thoughtfully sunset things that
I was doing for work. I've had to take distance
from people right now because I've found that, you know,
for me, a boundary in friendship that I'm really clear
(15:44):
on has become like I can't be in friendship with
emotionally immature adults. And that is not that I'm not
saying that term as a criticism. It's an actual term,
you know, with a set of behavioral standards underneath it.
But I realize what I was thinking of, like what
pulls my time or what gives me charge, what doesn't
(16:06):
feel congruent in my life. It's just like, oh, it's
the situations where for some people emotionally their integrity is
always going to fluctuate based on how they're feeling in
the moment, and even pulling that focus back and realizing
how much focus went to that, even just silently, you know,
(16:26):
just in witnessing it. But also the same thing with
like I love that you're talking about getting use your
passion and use your power, but don't dilute it trying
to give a teeny tiny bit to everything, Like find
the things that you are actually deeply aligned with and
can have like effect on in presence with, and then
(16:47):
go all in with those things. But that also like
saves your brain.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
It does, because here's something that we never really think
about but is a scientific truth. Our attention is finite.
We run around thinking it's just infinite. We can just
give it to anything everywhere, all the time and whatever,
dabble there's this that, and yet no.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It e roads we what does that mean? It means
that we only have.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
A certain amount of attention to give every day.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Really, yes, okay, hold on because I've never heard that before.
I think, especially as women, we are the greatest multitaskers
on earth to our detriment, and I want to get
into Yes, that's a whole other Yeah, I never it
never occurred to me that there is actually this like
(17:38):
reservoir that's on tap as, right, and attention that could
run dry. Scientifically, what's happening, Well.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
I mean really it's it's a whole cocktail of hormones
and chemicals and neuro transmitters. But really, you know, when
you wake up in the morning, let's say, your brain
is sort of like we cement. I like to use
that metaphor, and so when we wake up and grab
our phone, I'm just giving examples, right, Like most of us,
we make imprints, and we start our days in everyone
(18:07):
else's life other than our own, right, And so now
we're imprinting on our wet cement all these other things
that take up space in our brain, and our attention
goes to all these things, and then we kind of
go about our day and everything feels urgent even though
it's not, and everything requires attention, and we try to prioritize,
(18:30):
and you know, it's just and so our attention reservoir.
I mean, there isn't like a physical reservoir for attention,
but if you think about it, sort of chemically, our
nervous system can only take so much throughout the day,
and our attention sort of fluctuates. The way we regain
sort of clips of attention is by this deep reset
(18:51):
or or sort of going into this resting mode of
our brain that you may have heard about, and it's
like a deep reset. Boredom, for example, helps with that
deep reset. We never are board anymore. So we're just
like running on this unreal, bizarre We just are running
out our attention reservoirs every single day. We listen to
(19:14):
a podcast maybe while driving, which I love podcasts, by
the way, right of course, but we're constantly we're constantly consuming.
Our brain cannot constantly consume, so our attention bank decreases, decreases, decreases,
and while and then let's also throw in the multitasking piece,
(19:35):
which actually doesn't exist. Our brain cannot multitask, so I
call it task switching. Every time we switch tasks, it
takes about twenty three to twenty five minutes, not seconds.
I did not misspeak minutes to go back to whatever
it is to refocus.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
So we're losing hours every single day just by trying
to be good at whatever it is we're doing and
do multiple things.
Speaker 4 (20:05):
So by the end of the day we're spent. Yeah,
and guess what, It's not just our job or our
failed relationships or our kids or whatever it is that
we think it is. It's that we we have just
totally exhausted our attention reservoir and our nervous system is
now trying to catch up. And again you ask about
(20:27):
like the chemical process, Yes, like we release cortisol, which
spikes our stress hormones. We release all these different hormones
that are involved in the attention sort of capacity. But
that's almost like too technical because if you think about it,
it's like it's we wake up with a very finite
amount that we can attune to anything, because the human
(20:49):
brain isn't meant to just attune for you know, eons,
especially not with everything coming at us. In addition to
you know.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
What it is that it was so oh wow.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
We're just eroded. Yeah, and no wonder We're we're flailing
and we're just we're spent.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Deeply, Well, what.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Is happening to us? I guess when we do pour
attention into a screen, right, and what has been happening
to us? Because you know the thing that people say,
like creatively, like for people that identify as creators on Instagram,
right like, everyone says, oh, you got to make it quicker,
you got to make it faster, because our attention spans
(21:36):
are so low. And I'm just like, I'm someone that
loves long form content personally, so I'm just like, so
when did that happen? And does it keep getting lower
and lower?
Speaker 4 (21:47):
So our brain is a muscle and whatever we train
it to do is what it seeks. So when we
expose it to this quick form content, it's going to
seek out quick form content because that's the fastest way
to get a dopamine hit. The mean is sort of
that feel good chemical that makes us feel like we're rewarded.
And so it's what companies have figured out is this,
(22:08):
like the short form content gives us that quick dopamine.
We don't have to work hard for it. We can
just keep doing it and it's like this reward loop
and we feel good about it. But it's all super
super surface, and we have trained our brain to know
that we don't have to do anything to feel good.
It used to be like we you know, a kid
would have to go and practice let's say getting a
(22:31):
soccer ball in the net. You practice for hours, so
when you finally got that goal, you feel so good
about it. That's your dopamine loops. That's the kind of
dopamine that we want to train our brain to get. Yeah,
because we're equating work practice motivation with a reward. But
what we have now trained our brain to seek is
(22:55):
the lazy reward, like the reward of just sitting on
the couch and consuming cons in consuming, and we're still
getting that quick twitch dopamine, yeah, but it's not couched
with any kind of motivation. And then we wonder why
we don't really want to do much? Right, So we're
retraining our brain. So that's really what that short form
content is. It's a way of hijacking our brain just
(23:16):
a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
So fascinating, How I mean, how do we begin to
retrain our brain? I know I heard something that you
said was like how how important and nourishing boredom is
for us? Yes, yes, and that is now that is
something and especially like when I think back to early
experiences teaching meditation. That was something I had to really
(23:39):
like in the process, design some language around for people,
like why being still in quiet can be just torturous? Right?
Speaker 4 (23:48):
You know, right now, meditation and boredem are not the
same thing total because you're still actively engaging in something.
But you know, boredom is just very healthy. And I
almost like ask people to prescribe moments of boredom to
themselves because it's really not something that we allow space
for anymore.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
But that's really what does that look like?
Speaker 4 (24:09):
Okay, so it could look like just looking out the
window for a minute and kind of zoning out. It's
what we call being unproductive and zoning out and potentially
being lazy, but actually it's extremely nourishing. Now that's not
your excuse to just be lazy and not do anything,
but it is. It can look like even three minutes
or five minutes, and it is such a powerful reset
(24:32):
because our brain just is this like blank slate, right,
And that's honestly where the most creative ideas in humanity
have come from. Creativity is born within the boredom network
and the system that is required from the brain, so
the reset mode. So when we aren't you know, problem
(24:53):
solving effectively or having great ideas. I often say, try
a bit of boredom, like try not schedule something, try
to not do anything. It's almost like retraining the brain.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Now.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
I think this also sort of feeds into a conversation
about taking breaks. I think a lot of people these
days say, well, you know, I focus for you know,
sixty minutes or whatever it is that I you know,
block out and then I just take a break. And
that's fine, right, No, because every break is so different.
If you're just scrolling Netflix or you're just like looking
(25:28):
at cat videos on YouTube, that's not a break. Yeah,
it feels like a break. It's like I just want
to I just want to veg out and just take
a break. That's not a break. You're still consuming content.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Right totally.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
So your brain isn't actually reset much. It's so much
it's no wonder we're also tired, truly, Like it's such
an unreal amount of information all the time.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, you know, I had read this thing a couple
of years ago, and I find myself like always kind
of speaking to it. But I'd love to ask you
your thoughts on this. There was this like bit of
information that was kind of going around the internet that
said we think more in a single day than like
(26:12):
our ancestors thought in a lifetime. And instantly I was like,
that could absolutely be true. I could see how that
is true because the variety of things you know about
is what you think about. Yes, that is true.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
And also I think it it's also to do with
sort of the invisible and emotional labor that we carry
daily in addition to our actual thoughts.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Right.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
So there's there's so many layers to being human these days, right,
And so you know, it's it's all of the tasks
that we're thinking about that we don't actively think about maybe,
but that's sort of embedded in our subconscious like we
sort of just it's like a knee jerk thing, or
it's like the mental labor of getting a task done.
It's not just the task, like even scheduling a doctor's appointment, right,
(27:04):
It's not just picking up the phone and scheduling the appointment, right,
It's like looking at your calendar trying to fit it in,
thinking about which doctor to go to, what do you need.
It's a million different things before you actually get to
the task, right, the task at hand. So I think
it's really important that you know, we've sort of complicated
(27:26):
living in a way, right, Yeah, because of and it's
not really our fall at all, it's just the way
society operates. There's so many different calendars to look at
these days, there's so many ways to connect and to communicate.
That's a whole other conversation is the over communication, the DMS,
the text like the slack that this it's.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Just too much.
Speaker 4 (27:48):
And so you know, we've gone from dating and partnerships
to having some sort of seduction and space away from
each other, and now it's just this constant and looking
at the three dots wondering like is he gonna respond?
Like he goes that it right, So it's just that's
a whole other thing. But you know, I just it's
it's it's important to think about, you know, all of
(28:11):
the things that we carry. So that's what when I
say the mental labor, the emotional labor, the invisible labor
of functioning, especially with being a woman, that's you know,
you touched upon that. But there's so much culturally that
is expected of us that we've played into that because
we have to. And it's sort of just the role
(28:32):
that we've been placed into that's just really coming at
a very very high cost. And you know, for example,
I have so many clients that say, well, I'm just
I'm just good at multitasking, like I'm better than multitasking,
at multitasking than men. And the reality is, scientifically, no,
(28:53):
there is no gender difference. In fact, our brain cannot multitask.
We've just been told sort of this myth that we
should and can to get more done, and really, not
only are we getting less done because we lose about
forty percent productivity when we try to multitask, and that
twenty three to twenty five minutes of lost time every
(29:14):
time we task switch, but also the cost is us
our essence, like who we are as a human being?
What are we left with at the end of the day,
What are we left with? And so I really think
that yes, of course, as we age, hormones come into
play and all the brain fog and all of that
is real, But I also think that our brain fog
(29:37):
is exponentially higher because we've spent a lifetime trying to
keep up and biologically, neurologically we just can't and we shouldn't.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Wow, wow, wow, this is fascinating I'm so curious. You
know what led you to this work?
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Well, I mean it's really all of my clients and
the work I've done. It's just that so many people
are always normalizing burnout and dissociation and disconnection, and I
wanted to get to the core of what it what
it really is about. And I refuse to believe it
was just the job, right, or the husband or the kids,
(30:26):
like it's got There's got to be something more. And
everything pointed to to our inability to sustain focus and
our and to own our attention.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
So when you were first setting on your path because
to to kind of I mean, this book is a
facet of course of your work, but it's it's rooted
in you know, a very very long time in your
field and all that it takes to you know, become
a doctor. What what kind of sparked your desire to
be a behavioral scientist? Like what were you just kind
(30:59):
of as like a a young girl, like watching humanity
and like why do people do what they do? Totally act? Really?
Speaker 4 (31:05):
I was, Yeah, I was always so curious about why
two people would have the same life experience but react
totally differently. Yeah, And I was the kid at summer
camp where like if someone was crying in the bathroom
dealing with an issue that had nothing to do with me,
I was that kid that would kind of approach and
try to help and sit with them and hold space.
(31:27):
And so I was just always that kind of person.
And I was always very curious about what behavior was
all about, what made people react a certain way, what
is regulation? Like, what is all of this? And does
how does happiness and joy and choices inform our outcomes? Yeah,
(31:49):
and so that's what I wanted to study and to
help guide.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
I so deeply relate to that. I was that kind
of intuitive child looking at the adults around me. Yeah,
really fascinated by the way they made choices. Yes, and
then like the long term toll of those choices and yeah,
so so interesting is something I would really love to
get in with you. We were talking a little bit
(32:15):
before the show about parenting, and I know you have
a thirteen year old and eleven year old and a
five year old. You were in the extremes right now,
but you also, you know, just kind of parenting through
your lens with all that you understand about how this
world is affecting us in our brains. How much does
(32:38):
that drive your parenting? And like, what are some of
the kind of distinct pillars of your parenting.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I it's my
training is everywhere, and I try really hard, you know,
not to wear that hat per se, but it's infused
into everything I do. And again, there's no perfection, right, Like,
I'm right there with you, struggling to you know, regulate
(33:05):
myself and knowing that my children borrow regulation. I'm trying
to be patient. I'm trying to repair when I need
to because I'm human. I'm trying to also not I'm
trying to model what I preach, which is not beyond
devices as much, which is hard because my whole world
exists on a device. Even my car needs my device.
(33:26):
I don't actually have a key because I have an
electric car. You know, It's like it's wild. I can
get into my house with my phone. I don't even
have a set of keys, Like it's the whole thing.
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I need my phone to turn on my fans, like
it's insane. Don't need another app?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Yes, totally, And so I look at that and it's
it's hard. I think it's really hard to be a
kid these days too, and I'm seeing this more and more.
I mean, it's really hard to parent in the device age,
but it's also hard to be a kid. I see
this with my thirteen year old, and we're a very
sort of low device now device family, given my training
(34:04):
and my work with common sense media and all the things.
But now that he's in middle school, my eldest, I
see how pervasive device usage is and how these kids
communicate only mostly on devices, and it's hard. It's hard
(34:26):
to keep stay true to what you know is right,
but be so sort of such an outlier. And I'm
so grateful that phones are not, as you know, have
been mostly Most schools have taken away phones, which is great,
but they've been replaced now by computers. And the kids
are these on these computers now, and they can still
(34:48):
text through their computer and the game on the it's
just a whole thing. And I see how much it
affects their inability to connect and cultivate friendships more easily.
These just play outside, right, and now that doesn't really
exist anymore. We have like living room kids. Not me
per se, but you know, generally, and it's just harder
it's harder to advise, it's harder to lead. But I
(35:11):
always say I do a lot of work with schools
and actually universities too, and with parents, and there's so
many things you can say as a parent, but really,
as we know, it's so much about what you do.
And I think we're all going to make mistakes. We're
all going to stare at our phones when our kid
is trying to talk to us sometimes and be so
(35:32):
engrossed in whatever it is that we don't don't even
hear them. I get that that's just the reality of
being human these days. It's important to call that out, like, yeah,
make mistakes, but then say, hey, you know what, I'm
so sorry. I just I realized that I was stuck
in this work email, and I really what you have
to say is so important. I'm gonna put that down
right now. Or you can say, you know what, I
(35:54):
really have to address this. What you have to say
is important. I'm gonna come back to you in five
to ten whatever it is minutes. Or you can say, hey,
I'm just staring at a recipe. I don't want you
to think I'm not listening, but I need to look
at this right now. Because I'm putting something in the oven,
whatever it is, but articulate it because you're essentially walking
them through your process, which is going to help their
(36:14):
process because they're trying to They're looking at you trying
to figure out, like how am I going to function
in this world?
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Like how do I figure this out? And they're probably
looking at you on your phone like what are you
doing on there? Like what is it?
Speaker 4 (36:25):
What is more important than me?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah? What's more important than me?
Speaker 4 (36:30):
And they know cognitively that life like that the devices
are required in life, they do know that, but intrinsically
in their self worth, their brain and their body can't
make that distinction.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
So what our kids are growing up with and why
I think partly not wholly, but partly anxieties is such
an all time high with our youth is that there's
just this like this pervasive friction and this disc with
knowing that I'm more I'm not more important than whatever
(37:07):
is going on on that bone. Yeah, and my parent
isn't present in my life in that same way that
our parents used to be. And I do want to
make sure that people understand that it's not about giving
your full time and attention your kids all the time.
That's super unhealthy too, But it's about really about sort
of the quality of your interactions and the attention with
which you give to them in those moments. There was
(37:31):
a really interesting study that showed that it's not the
amount of time that we spend with our kids that
cultivates success and joy for them. It's really just with
that those attentive moments. It's it's actually a very short
amount of time that makes imprints, yeah, and little births
of memory, core memories, and just just being being in
that moment whatever it is you're doing with them is
(37:54):
so much more impactful than spending a whole day with
them distracted. Yeah, you know, So don't feel guilty if
you're like out or working or doing whatever. They don't
actually need so much of you. They just need you
when you're there.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
And let your kids be bored, yes, oh my gosh, don't.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Don't.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
And that's so hard as they get older too, because
they have so many interests they want to pursue things,
which is great. So again lots of conversations about what
that looks like, how do we build in downtime? So
now it's the reverse conversation. It's not you know, how
do we add more activities? It's like, how do we
add in downtime? How do we add in boredom?
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Mom?
Speaker 4 (38:37):
What do I do now? I don't know.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I know.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
What I do know is that you're creative enough to
figure it out.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, you know, yeah, I think long term, that's going
to be the real luxury that we get to give
our kids by teaching them these very human skills, like
they're gonna have to Obviously they're going to be in
society as adults, they'll catch up on whatever the things are.
But like that is the luxury, like being able to
(39:04):
give your kids space to be bored.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
You know, if you can build in those moments, that's
where their creative freedom will really just thrive. And it
is literally going to become a superpower to be able
to sustain eye contact. I mean I'm talking like a
basic human connection. If your kid can master that, now,
(39:29):
that's going to become their superpower because it's going to
be so rare, it's going to be so rich. I
already see it. They don't know how to really talk.
It's just wild, and you know you can have I've
worked with someone who was a dean at Stanford, and
I remember her telling me, you know, these kids are
so accomplished, they're extraordinary humans. They are so inempt and
(39:54):
that broke my heart. Wow, because they just don't know
how to do fundamental human things right and they just
want their parents to fix things. And it's in the
best intentions. We love our kids, but we really need
to like gift them the space to feel challenged and
(40:17):
work through it on their own.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Give your kids wisdom, guide them, teach them things, talk
to them, give them an understanding of how to be
human in the world and move in the world with
other people.
Speaker 4 (40:32):
And the space to do that right, because it's one
thing to like we can talk a lot and we
can guide them certainly, but if we don't give them
the space to practice, they're never going to learn.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
And as parents, like that is I mean, we signed
up for that, and it does take intentional time to
do that. It does take a little bit of like
practicing with your own self, working with your own nervous
system regulation and emotional regulation. But like you know, you
you have to like really witness your kids, like you
(41:07):
have to, as you know you said, it's like there
is guidance, and then there's also that space of like
deep observation and witnessing of your kids.
Speaker 4 (41:14):
And witnessing and allowing them to feel friction right and
to Yeah, but it starts with us. It starts starts
with us. It starts and ends with us. So it's
like it's really important that you put in the work
to cultivate your attention and your focus and give them
that space to do the same.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, it's beautiful, so powerful and important deeply. Well, well,
before we end the episode, I always offer some space
for our experts to give what I like to call
soul work, So is something to integrate everything that we've
(41:58):
heard practice a thoughts star gosh, I think.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
You know. I always say that people should audit their
day and figure out what is your biggest sort of
a distractor and start with that. So it doesn't have
to feel overwhelming that all of a sudden you have
to let go of all these things or feel so
uncomfortable or you know, change a million habits at once.
Just start with one. What is your biggest distractor? If
(42:25):
it's your phone, if it's your notifications, Like, what is
it about the phone. It can't just be the phone.
But it's like something about the phone. What are you
trying to escape when you're on the phone, when you
pick up that phone, what are you trying to distract
yourself from? And so really try to do some deeper
work to peel those layers, because it's not just the
(42:45):
phone that's the issue. It's really something that we're trying
to escape, And so start there and troubleshoot that. And
if it's if it's the phone that's the issue, or
the pickup or whatever, it's so much harder for us
to get distracted when we physically make it harder for
ourselves to grab the phone. So leave it in another room.
(43:07):
My biggest like quick quick thing is don't wake up
with your phone, Like just don't look at your phone
even five minutes. Yeah, start with five minutes, start with
one minute. If it's like super super hard for you, right,
And yes, you can buy an alarm clock. You don't
need your phone for that, right. So, unless you have
babies where it's required to stare at your phone to
look at the baby monitor, leave the phone in another room,
(43:29):
don't pick it up right when you wake up. You
will be astounded by how transformational just that one thing
is for your life.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Oh my gosh, perfect. Yes, yeah, that is a powerful tool.
Thank you so much for joining us on the show
to this was absolutely fascinating. Your new book is available
everywhere right now, everyone go get it Finding Focus, own
your attention and the age of Distraction and all the
links will be linked below. But how can everyone connect
(44:01):
with you?
Speaker 4 (44:02):
My website Doctorslana dot com, drz l Ana dot com,
tons of free resources and my instagram you'll feel keep
up with me and everywhere I go and what I.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Do amazing everything linked in the show notes of this episode.
Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
Thank you for having me. This is wonderful.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Back next week now, Misdayday. The content presented on Deeply
Wells serves solely for educational and informational purposes. It should
not be considered a replacement for personalized medical or mental
health guidance and does not constitute a provider patient relationship.
(44:43):
As always, it is advisable to consult with your healthcare
provider or health team for any specific concerns or questions
that you may have. Connect with me on social at
Debbie Brown that's Twitter and Instagram, or you can go
to my website Debbie Brown and if you're listening to
the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget, Please rate, review,
(45:06):
and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Deeply
Well is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network.
It's produced by Jacquess Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown.
The Beautiful Soundbath You heard That's by Jarrelyn Glass from
Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio
(45:28):
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Devi Brown
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