April 10, 2025 • 62 mins
Today, Devi is joined by the luminous Lee Harris — globally beloved energy intuitive and author — for a conversation that feels like a breath of clarity in the midst of a transformative era. Together, we reflect on the deep shifts happening in our world right now and what it means to care for ourselves while moving through such revolutionary times.
Lee offers insights from his new book The Future Human, and we dive into the wisdom of his guides, the Zs — who speak to the collective awakening unfolding all around us. We talk about how to stay rooted in our truth, how to recover from spiritual and emotional burnout, and the sacred practice of choosing self-care as an act of strength.
This episode also brings forward a conversation that so many of us are ready for — one about authority, co-dependence in spiritual spaces, and the journey of reclaiming your power. We explore how to honor your intuition, navigate your own evolution, and step away from projecting onto spiritual teachers so that your path remains your own.
This dialogue is an invitation to go deeper—into your practice, into your knowing, and into the quiet space where healing begins. It reminds you that you are your own sacred guide and that the work of becoming is always unfolding.
Connect @DeviBrown @DeeplyWellPod
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Speaks to the planet.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'll go by the name of Charlamagne Tha God. And
guess what, I can't wait to see y'all at the
third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival. That's right, We're coming
back to Atlanta, Georgia, Saturday, April twenty six at Poeman
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the Woman of All Podcasts with Sarah Jake Roberts. We
(00:22):
got Good Mom's Bad Choices. Carrie Champion will be there
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with more to be announced. And of course it's bigger
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Speaker 1 (00:58):
Take a deep in through your nose. Holds it.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Now, release slowly again, deep in haale hold release, repeating
(01:32):
internally to yourself as you connect to my voice. I
am deeply well I am deeply Well.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I am deeply wow.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well Podcast.
Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on
your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,
and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care.
(02:24):
This is where we heal, this is where we transcend.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
In today's episode, I am so excited.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
First things first, Hey y'all, it's Debbie, Debbie Brown.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I'm so happy to be here with you.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
And if you're watching on YouTube, you kind of see
me in my very stylish, humongous sling across my arm.
So I will have some updates for you on some
of those things that are happening with me very very soon.
But I am so excited to have you back here,
and I'm just so excited for this episode. We are
really climbing into some new terrain in this episode, and
(02:58):
I am joined by a very dear friend, and I
think that the timing couldn't be more perfect.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
So, without further ado, I would love today.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
To share with you that I am having a special
conversation with one of my favorite people. He is a
special and gifted being who I have not yet had
the pleasure of hosting on this show, but I have
been on his on one of my favorite interviews I've
ever done, and I'm so excited to introduce you to
my dear friend.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Lee Harris.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Lee is a globally acclaimed energy intuitive channeler, author and musician.
His grounded practical teachings focus on the expansion of your
intuition and awareness to help you live a more heart
centered life. Lee Harris is the author of The Future
Human and several other titles. He leads a vibrant online
(03:51):
community that reaches one million people every month. His acclaimed
online events and members community, which is called The Portal,
our adventure into the deepest aspects of living, loving, and awakening.
His new book was just released on March eighteenth, The
Future Human New Ways of Living and Being on Earth
(04:12):
by Lee Harris and Regina Meredith. This book presents a
series of profound conversation between Lee's guides Disease and award
winning journalist Regina Meredith. Through her insightful and thought provoking questions,
Regina draws out illuminating and inspiring perspectives on the evolution
of the human mind, body, and soul, as well as
(04:34):
our relationships, gender dynamics, and societal systems.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Welcome to this show.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Lead good friend, Thank you for having met with you.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
So happy to have you here. And you just you've
been on a whirlwind. You have been touring all over
the world. You have been just sharing so much. And
I think I got you when you just like made
it back home and right before you're heading.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Off to Australia and other parts. And how how are you.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I'm good, Actually, I'm good. It's been a big year,
but it's I had this really strong feeling that it
was time to go back out into the world after
several years. You know, in twenty twenty we had to
cancel and postpone a bunch of events and so I
just thought, I'm going to wait. And then last year
I thought, this is the time we need to go
and be with people. So yeah, we were about to
(05:22):
take the tour to Australia and New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
And yeah, but I'm good. I mean, like everybody, it's
been a lot, it's been quite quite a time, quite
a life process. But today I'm really good and I'm
very happy to be with you.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, so happy to have you here.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
And I think I mean I have so many questions
and I can't wait to dive into this book, because
to say that this book is timely it seems like
such an understatement. We are in revolutionary times, really in
revolutionary times. I'm so curious, and you know, I think
(05:59):
something that a lot of listeners on this show are
either already connected to or at the beginning stages of
really kind of cultivating and firming up. It would be
the connection to one's intuition and as someone like yourself
who is an acclaimed channel and connector to the divine
(06:21):
and you've been doing this work for so long, you know,
I'm so curious, and I know we're going to dive
into it, especially through the lens of the book.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
But intuitively and spiritually, what.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Are you feeling about this moment as a man, as
a being on earth that also has this heightened sensitivity
to the bigger themes happening?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
So spiritually, if I look at it through a spiritual
lens and a lens of energy, it feels like where
we are as the world is exactly where I thought
we were going to get to, which is this time
of chaos, a time of things falling apart in order
to get better, a kind of battle, if you like,
between love and fear, or love and darkness when it
(07:11):
comes to how humans want to treat each other. So
I guess spiritually, I kind of have known this time
was coming for a long time, because it has been prophesied,
my own guides spoke about it to me. However, as
a human being going through it, it's intense because even
if you have a knowing that things need to change
(07:34):
and that there does need to be a people revolution,
and we're definitely at the beginning of that right now,
we're very evidently at the beginning of it, whereas it's
been forecast for years. I think it's a lot because
just as humans, you know, we all. I have my
own thoughts, my own feelings, my own history, and as
(07:55):
I move into this very new time, like everybody is,
things start to come undone in you or things things
are no longer held in place in your belief system
because the thing that you were believing in has radically changed.
So I think, like a lot of people, I feel
the intense healing of this time for myself personally. And
(08:17):
then I also and I think many of us feel
this too, for those of us who are a bit
more prepared for this time. Doesn't mean you always navigate
it gracefully, but it's not such of a shock as
it is to some other people. I really feel for
the people who are going through the shock of this
time and the pain of this time, and the suffering
(08:37):
of this time, and because there's a lot of that
going around as well. And so my guides always said,
there will be a group of you whose job it
will be to hold space when these times come around.
And I think that's why so many people are feeling
a call to do that now. Whether you just do
that in your personal life for people you love, or
(08:59):
whether you are an actual healer or coach or therapist
or whatever, the modality is, you're holding space for people
to let their feelings and their thoughts have a space
to unravel safely, which is not how many of us
grew up, you know. I was born in seventy six
in Britain. That wasn't what was going on when I
(09:21):
was a kid. So I'm happy that there are more
resources and that the Internet has allowed a connection between
us all and a place to find what you might need.
But yeah, I mean, these are big times.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
These are big times.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I mean, yeah, everything that you said, let's just settle
into it. Two of the things that came up as
you were saying that is it for those that are
feeling really rocked in this moment especially, and I think
to exactly what you said, We're all feeling it, but
we're feeling it in different capacities. Like some of us
(09:56):
are feeling it from the observational sense, some of us
are feeling from the personalized experience sense. And I do
feel I feel so prepared to be alive right now.
I think that's the best way to put it. I
feel like, oh, put me in coach. This is what
I was born for. I came for this exact moment.
(10:21):
Not to say that there aren't days that utterly exhaust
me and also break my heart, you know, but yeah,
I do feel prepared to be alive right now. But
what do you think as the broader theme, what is
the pain of this time?
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I think the pain of this time for I mean,
there are many pains, right but what hits me in
this moment is is the lack of safety. I think
I think one of the pains for people is the
lack of safety, whether it's that you're a group that
is completely being marginalized or continuing marginalization, or you're not
(10:58):
being looked after, you're not being served. How is the
planet going to survive? Is the big kind of question
that so many people have. And then also the levels
of deception that we're learning about that have taken place
within our power systems. And again, it was always forecast
that a lot would come out during these times, things
(11:19):
that we didn't know or that we had lived through,
and so it's a little bit like, I mean, if
you want to look at it dramatically, it's like learning
that the babysitter is also a psychopath and although that's
who you've been left in the house with. But then
also there's the child part of yourself that can go, oh,
(11:39):
my god, what the hell is going on? And then
there's also the adult part of us that that's also
our job. Our job is to be here as adults
in this time and to the best of our ability,
and that will depend on your circumstances all that day.
What can we do to help, whether it's helping the
people who negatively affected by everything that's going on, or
(12:00):
whether you are one of the frontline people to change
the paradigm you know, you might be an activist in
politics right now, you might be an activist on the
front lines for the environment. Who knows what your role is?
And our roles are all different. And I will say
one thing I think that's really important. If you are
in shock right now, or if you are in grief
(12:22):
right now, or the rug in your life has been
pulled out from under you, your only job, apart from
any responsibilities you might have, is to recover, to recover yourself.
And sometimes I see people in that state, and I've
been in that state myself a few times in my life.
That is not the time to try and save the
(12:44):
rest of the world. That is the time to go. Oh,
for whatever reason, something seismic just happened to me. It's
going to change me forever. But it might take me
six months, nine months, eighteen months to recover. And if
I've got kids, or I've got up I'm a career
for people, or I've got a really hard job, I
(13:04):
have to make my priority in the time I can
recovering myself. It's the put your own oxygen mask on first,
so that you're breathing and have enough oxygen to be
able to put the oxygen mask on for someone else,
and I think that's a place that healers or sensitives
with an over developed responsibility around pain or suffering, or
(13:25):
people who are struggling. That can be a bit of
a mind trip. And I think sometimes we're brought to
our knees so that we stop behaving in ways that
are helping others but costing ourselves. Sometimes we're brought to
our knees because we have to learn how to look
after ourselves. And I know it's happened to me. I
know you and I in our personal chats have talked
about the moments in our life where we've been forced
(13:48):
to look after ourselves in ways that we didn't know
how before or no one else was doing it for us.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Yeah, yeah, I I oh, I thank you for saying
all of that. Like I think that is so perfectly
timed and just so important.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
And I just like.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
That that term right because I think a lot of
a way that it's being positioned, which is accurate and important,
has been around resting, right. But there are some ways
that that doesn't fully make sense to people's minds or lives,
like especially if it feels like there is all these
activations coming in this idea of like rest with all
(14:31):
this happening. But when you said recover, you have to
recover to be in this like you gotta, for lack
of a better term, you gotta be in like fighting
shape to be alive right now, emotionally, spiritually, physically, you know,
like mentally, like we have to be in better shape
(14:54):
in all those capacities to be really present for what
this moment is.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, and it's interesting you say that because last year
I had this really strong feeling for myself, I have
to get stronger physically. I mean I was doing it
mentally and emotionally in various ways, but I had this
real strong feeling of I have to clean up my
physical act and get as strong as I can. And
for someone else, it might be that they're going to
(15:20):
therapy for the first time and beginning to look at
the map of who they are because so many of
us weren't invited to that kind of understanding. Many of
us fell into self growth, either because we knew there
was something else to life, or some kind of crisis
took us there. And actually the truth is the map
(15:41):
of who we all are is massively affecting our daily lives.
So even with everything you and I are talking about
right now and we have to be in shape, there
is a lot of magic and a lot of light
on the planet that I have to report every month.
I do an energy update on YouTube the first of
every month, and you know, I get eight themes usually
(16:03):
for the month, and there's always a couple that are
really quite high and positive that sometimes more than a couple.
And it reminds me that on any given day, your
day can start really badly. Your day might start with
some depressing news or something that makes you feel heavy,
or you wake up just not feeling great, and your
(16:25):
mind can start to tell you a story of oh,
this isn't a good day, Oh I should just I
two pm. That afternoon, some miracle happens, who knows what
it is. Someone gives you some news, someone comes to visit,
something happens in your neighborhood that and so those are
the times we're in as well. They're fast in good
(16:46):
ways as well as in challenging ways. And so I
think that's also why I think we have to be
strong because things can change so fast right now, so
we have to kind of be, like you said, ready
for ready for anything that's come. And I think that
strength is a real focus for people at the moment.
(17:06):
And like we said, some people might be doing it physically,
some people might be doing it mentally, some emotionally, but
it's required because these times are strong.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah yeah, yeah, wow, Okay, we have a lot to
dive into. So you have you have already come out
with some pretty amazing projects from past books like Energy Speaks,
which you dropped way back in twenty twelve, to Conversations
(17:36):
with the Z's two in the in the series to
begin with that came out just in the last couple
of years, in addition to all of your musical albums,
which there are many beautiful projects dating all the way
back to twenty ten. My godly you have one, two, three, four, five,
you have like twelve albums.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah, we've got a quo with Buss.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
You've been getting it in with your purpose.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Oh we love music. What can I say?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
You know? Before we get into the latest book, which
is officially out right now in all the places that
you prefer to read and get your books, the future human,
has anything surprised you that came to you that you
channeled in these last few books, that happened. Does it ever, Like,
do things ever happen? And it kind of You're like, Oh,
(18:24):
I mean I knew that was going to happen, but
damn that happened.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Yeah. I think the information surprises me a lot because
you know the thing about being a channeler, So when
I speak to my guides, it's like having a conversation,
like you and I are having a conversation, but I
hear them from just above the left hand side of
my head. So that's like a conversation that takes place
between my mental awareness and what I'm hearing from them.
(18:51):
That's private when I channel for other people, or when
I channel publicly, or when I in the case of
this book, Regina asked questions while I was channeling. That
just comes straight through and out, so I don't have
an opportunity to edit it or to weigh in on it.
So depending on what is asked, I learn things all
(19:14):
the time, Like there are things in this Future Human
book that are quite mind blowing to me, Like I'm like, Wow,
that's something I would have never asked. It's something I
would have never thought about. So I would say regularly,
the channeling surprises me when I'm working as an energy intuitive,
which is kind of like a few rungs down the ladder.
(19:35):
I'm still using my intuition, my guides still tap in,
but I also use my body, and I use my
feeling senses about the energy of who is in front
of me, whether that's an individual or a group, or
if I'm working online, I go a bit more psychic
and feel into who might be watching it. But that
comes from a slightly more grounded place. So when I
do the channeling like in this book, Oh yeah, it's
(19:59):
trippy because it's also it's an interesting experience to give
your energy, your body, your name to something that you
can't always fully vouch for. You know, I can't. I
don't have vouched experience about what they're speaking about. But
boy do they go into quite a lot of detail
with Regina about dimensions of our reality that I'm not
(20:21):
seeing on a daily basis. Yeah, so it's very interesting, deeply.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Well, your most recent book, The Future Human, which you
did with someone that I know.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
For those that watch GAYATV are she is a OG.
She is she is an OG in the game.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
She's a celebrated Gaya TV host Regina Meredith, what initially
brought you to together to create this.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
So Regina had me on her show Open Minds back
in twenty fourteen, and probably I've done that show maybe
ten times over the last decade, and we'd developed a
friendship along the way, you know, we'd go for dinner
and we'd stay in touch and we'd meet up from
time to time. So we'd always said we wanted to
do a project together, but we didn't know when. And
(21:13):
I had this very sudden, unexpected gap in my schedule
two summers ago, and so it was summer of twenty
twenty three, and I just happened to be talking to
her and the idea came up that we could collaborate.
So within three weeks we were doing it, and she
decided to come to England to do it because I
was headed there anyway. So we ended up recording this
(21:34):
in England, and it was a very trippy week because
we had agreed on the kinds of questions that Regina
was going to ask. She wanted to ask about how
can we best live and best serve these times, but
she also wanted to ask about some of the shadow
aspects of our world. So I knew it was going
(21:56):
to be a fairly involved process. But because the book
go into the future by many decades and also goes
way back thousands of years in reference some issues that
we're facing now, it kind of spun us both out.
We did a week of recording, and we do about
three hours a day, and it took about two weeks
(22:18):
to recover. After the recording was over, I just felt
not in my body, not in not how it took
about two weeks because I think we'd gone into this
quite out there high frequency space. So and I've heard
that from people who listen to the audio, which is
the original conversations. The audible is not narrated, it's the
(22:41):
conversations as they happened, so you're hearing it live in
the room. And then the book was created from the
conversations the transcripts and edited. So so they have talked
about feeling this frequency shift or this frequency opening. So yeah,
that was the impetus for the project with Regina, and
(23:01):
we had a great time doing it. You know, we
have such an easy flow in the way that we
both work, so it was it was very easy project
to do. Just a little trippy.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, how do you recover?
Speaker 4 (23:15):
I recovered by being a bit useless for a couple
of weeks. Honestly, I was a bit useless, like and
I'm not someone who rests easily, like I rest really
enjoyably when I've exerted myself. So I'll come home from
a tour and I will really enjoy two or three
days of rest. But rest to me is not is
(23:38):
not that interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
I feel like I'm here to generate and I'm here
to create, and creating has always been my happy place
since I was a kid. So if I'm not engaging
with people that I enjoy or creating, I'm definitely those
are my extra versions, and then I need introversion just
to recover. But yeah, so what I remember about those
(23:59):
we was just watching things, actually, which is not like
me either. I don't watch many things on television. But
I think I was just very on my couch a
little bit for a week or two and just very
slow and not very not very functional compared to normal
when I'm normally, you know, pretty pretty consistently functional.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Moving and doing and all the things. You have been
channeling thesease now for over twenty years, is that correct?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Yeah, I'm forty eight and I first heard them when
I was twenty three, wow, twenty five years and then
publicly channeling since two thousand and four, so yeah, it's
been a while.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
And then what makes up disease?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Right?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
So when I first met them, I asked who they
were and they said, well, we're a group. We're not
one individual. You can hear one voice, but we're a group.
And they said, some of us have been incarnate before,
so some of them have been human and they've had
lifetimes on Earth. Others have never. And what they say
is they call themselves a collective consciousness, like a They say,
(25:07):
we're like a library in that we have our own
knowledge base as a group, but we can also connect
with other groups, other beings, other energies to gather what
we need. So they often say they're a voice of
galactic source energy, not because they are purely galactic, although
(25:28):
they say that we're galactic and we've just we just
have had that scrub from our history. So they say,
you're you are all galactic beings incarnate as humans on Earth,
and your humanity is very very important to what's going
on in the universe right now, apparently, So they say
that what's taking place on Earth around consciousness has a
(25:49):
big knock on effect on the rest of the universe.
So that's why they're involved. Because some people have said, well,
what are they getting out of this? What are they doing?
And they'll often say, well, this is our job, you know,
And it's both. I think sometimes we have a how
do I put it? I think sometimes we have an
inappropriate reverence for spirit guides in a way that belittles
(26:11):
ourselves and over daifies of gurus. Them and the Zas
have always said, we are better than you or any
other human. We're just in a different position, in a
different vantage point. It's our job to give you our
advantage point when you want it, and it's your job
to take that dvantage point and see how much of
that advantage point you and all your fellow brothers and
(26:35):
sisters here are capable of embodying on Earth, breaking out
of some of the chains that we've been in, or
some of the false beliefs we've been given that keep
us small and that keep us restricted. So yeah, that's
the best way I guess I could describe who they
have told me that they are. And then over the years,
(26:55):
there's been lots of details, particularly in the conversations with
the Z's books. They go into some of the details
of why I have an alignment with them, who they've been,
all of that stuff, and I don't remember a lot
of it, to be honest, because I don't retain you
don't retain the channeled information unless I retain certain principles
and certain themes.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
But I don't.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I don't remember sentences or paragraphs or Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I love that. I really love that you said that
we can over kind of.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
What was the term you like dea to fy Yeah, like, yeah,
when we're in communion with spirit or in communion with
guides or ancestors sometimes there Yeah, I've never heard anyone
say that, but I witness it a lot. Whereas when
I'm in communication it really does feel like collaborative process
and not so much like you're speaking to me, okay,
(27:46):
And this is what makes me worthy is that I'm
hearing the thing. That's how it comes across sometimes.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
And I don't know where that came from, Debbie, because
you know, I think because of doing this work now
since my late twenty I was a massive self growth
and spirituality student, Like from the age of sixteen. That
was where my passion went and I was studying and
I was learning, but I didn't. It was only when
I started teaching that I would see this kind of
(28:14):
phenomenon of people giving their power away, either to me
or to disease, and I would be Oh, I was
a little confused by it, and I thought, well, what
is this phenomenon? And I think it's a couple of
couple of reasons I've come up with, and I'm sure
there are many reasons. There's always many reasons. One I
(28:35):
think is religious programming. I think we all grew up
with this idea of you know, God and Jesus are
here and we are down here, and we have to
stay separate. And I never quite felt the truth of that,
and I never felt God or Jesus would want that
for us. I felt like that was a man made
construction and set of rules, which you know, it's There
(28:56):
are many people who've said that before there was government,
there was church, and that church was often used to
control people, which is a shame because it takes away
the beautiful essence of so many of those teachings and
those energies and what they really truly stand for. So
I think that's part one. And then I think part
two is for those of us, myself included, who weren't
(29:18):
raised with spirituality, we go into a world that we
think we know nothing about, and we've been trained to
trust the teacher or the authority figure. So at first
we come in and we're like, well, I know nothing,
so I'm just going to absolutely believe everything you say.
And I think that's why so many of us have
those dodgy experiences with healers that we need to have
(29:41):
along the way. You're like, what the hell just happened
to me at this reiki healer's house. And it's not
that reiki is the problem. It's that you got with
a healer who isn't very aligned with you, or is
just not very aligned in their work. Yeah, but I
doubt yourself because you don't You've not got to the
(30:01):
point of recognizing that everything is human too. And I
think that was a big teaching for me meeting a
few spiritual teachers who really disappointed me in the early years,
you know, people who'd written some of my most beloved books.
And then I would see the way they spoke to
people backstage, and I'd be like, how are these two
things together? So you know, our humanity is always in us,
(30:25):
but so too is our spirituality. And I think luckily
more kids are being raised these days with people holding
space for them to explore their spirit and explore their soul.
But in my generation that wasn't really there. It was
a very rule based society. And so I think when
you then go into spirituality, you give your power away
(30:48):
because you think, well, I know nothing, so I'll just
believe whatever I'm told. And I think that's where some
of the guru culture can come in. And some people
need a guru because it's what they want, that level
of dependent relationship, and that maybe is the best thing
for them, but it doesn't work for everybody. We're all different.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
This conversation is not at all going where I thought
it would go. And I'm so excited and thrilled about
this because what everything that you just said is so
important to say. I think now more than ever, it's
something I think and say or try to address on
this show. And it's just it's it's so it's just
(31:27):
cannot be overset. It's so real and it's funny. It
resonates in so many ways with what you're saying. But
one of the ways it's it's it has come to
me personally. That is always so interesting to me. And
I'm so curious about your experience because your community especially
is just so global and so vast. People get upset
(31:49):
with me. Sometimes in my life, I've had the experience
that I don't act above and it is the strangest,
most confusing experience when people are projecting on you that
they want you to be their authority figure, and or
then you'll get things of like, oh, you're so humble,
(32:09):
or you're so this. It's like, no, I just that's
not a responsibility. I'm here to fulfill. I don't want
to be anyone's authority figure. I don't want to be
in codependence. I want to do my work. I want
to share my work, and if my work touches you,
I pray that you use it in the way that's
necessary and useful and you create your work.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
But this idea, I.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Think, I think that is something that is so deeply
human and so prevalent, and that many people don't fully
understand how they'll trade the codependence with their family or
the codependence with their relationship to now have codependence with
quote unquote spiritual community or religious community, or have codependence
(32:55):
with the person that you're obsessed with on Instagram or
you too, or the person that you know you go
to their events or their retreats or they're this, and
it's like, we're all missing the point if we allow that.
As a teacher, you're missing the.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Point and you are.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Feeding ego if you allow that, if you allow people
to put you in that position and you start to
play that role, and you're missing the point, if you're
connecting to the work, because it's always about how do
you bring God back inside of your own body? How
do you bring God back inside of your own life.
I am not here to be a shepherd. I'm here
(33:34):
to create and to be love and to live my integrity.
To be an example, surely, but not to be everyone's
parent and everyone's permission giver or everyone's you know, reflection
for the way they need to be seen. And I
think that's just important and for anyone listening. You know,
(33:56):
if you are in the place where you are really
needing that from someone, I think that's okay to be
in a season of that, but recognize, you know, you're
in a season where you might you might feel like
you want an example of better parenting that perhaps you
didn't receive, or a better experience of someone. But the
work is incomplete until you're in sovereignty, until you have
(34:20):
opened your connection to the divine and are able to
trust yourself and your choices.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Beautifully said yeah, Beautifully said yeah. I mean lots of
things you said ping for me in my in my
own life experience. And I think I'll go back a
little bit when I first because because channeling wasn't something
I was a fan of, and it wasn't something I
was looking to do. I loved self growth. That was
(34:47):
my jam, you know, and so channeling to me was
something I thought was a little odd, if I'm honest.
And then when it happened to me, I didn't find
it odd that it had happened to me at all,
but I found I was like, oh God, how's this
going to go? If I'm public about this? How many
people are going to disconnect from me because of this?
(35:07):
How many people are going to judge me? And it
did happen. I lost a few friends, you know, who
were like friends who I couldn't understand why this new
thing that I was doing was so challenging for them.
But when I went into the channeling world, and I
was taken to a few different channeling conferences as a speaker.
I was shocked how many people were how do I
(35:32):
put it, It felt like they were feeding on the
good vibrations from the channel, and then they'd go away
and they'd need to come back again a week later
to feed again because they weren't taking any actual nutrition
from it. They weren't taking the nutrition into their body
and letting it push into the part of them that
maybe needed to look at their codependency instead. This became
(35:54):
the new codependent relationship. This is how I feel good.
It almost became like a drug for some people. And
I would see that and I would think, oh, I mean,
there is definitely a feeling of expansiveness that comes from channeling,
but if you're if you're using it right, you'll get
that at first. But then it will ask you to
(36:15):
look at some areas in your life, or it will
put a few things in front of you that you
can then tweak and refine. And so I think the
difference is, you know, I'm going back to what you're
saying about codependency, and I think sometimes spirituality or looking
up to some other soothing figure or authority figure. We
put them in that position and we deny ourselves ever
(36:38):
becoming that position. But the truth is we're actually here
to learn.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Right.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
The reason I so admire so many of my friends
and I've always had friends who are older than me,
like twenty years older than me thirty because I loved
like they knew things, they embodied something that I wasn't
capable of. And still to this day, you know, I
love my my friends who are way wiser than I
am in certain areas that I'll never be, but I
(37:05):
do recognize that I learn a bit more just by
being in their orbit. So I think spirituality is an
osmosis engine. It should be something that you immerse yourself
in to become more of it, not to become a
transactional customer of the person that you have.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
You know you don't want to.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
For me, it just isn't a lifelong Okay, I'm going
to be a lifelong student of this one person, but
that's me and I come from a much more multi
dimensional viewpoint. I don't want to take away from certain
people for whom the Guru was there deepening with spirituality
for a decade or because there are different paths, but
for me it was much more. There's so much going
(37:48):
on here. I don't want to get into a transactional
codependent situation, and that just never felt true to me.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah god, it's just that this is necessary and important. Yeah,
everything that you said.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Deeply, Well.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I believe in reverence for your teachers, right, I believe
in the sacredness of what that relationship between teacher and
student is, the relationship I have with many of my teachers,
the relationship students have with me like that is an
important relationship, especially.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
In this work.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
But having reverence and gratitude for your teacher and the
places you were able to go because they shared learning
with you, knowledge, wisdom, and wanting to worship the teacher,
those are very very different things. There should be respect,
There should be a certain pride taken in the years
(38:54):
that you are a student, in the fact that your
whole life you'll be a student of something or various
things things always. But when it comes to now you're
exerting the effort to worship a teacher, to bypass yourself
or to please, or to whatever kind of transaction or
exchange that becomes, that's dangerous.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
It's very dangerous.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
And you know who I think it's even more dangerous for.
And we don't talk about this enough is the teacher.
And I have seen people walk themselves off a cliff
because they've allowed worship and you watch it happening and
you're like, oh God, this isn't going to go well
for you. You shouldn't feed on that energy. That energy
is not yours to feed on it. It's not clean,
(39:37):
it's not nutritious, it's dangerous. It's going to inflate you.
So whatever wound you have of inadequacy or I'm not
an but our self worth issues are our self worth
issues to deal with as human beings. We can't take
an area of our life where we are perhaps appreciated
(39:58):
and use that as a place to hide and not
deal with your self worth issues. So you see a
lot of people, a lot of people in that dynamic.
And it because I've been close to a couple of
people who have, let's say, abused that worship energy. I
got to see it very young, and it was a
(40:18):
great warning to me. And I'm you know what, I've
noticed I don't really look online anymore. Over the last
few years. I've kind of backed away from looking at
comments and things, which is great for me now, but
I used to notice there would be certain teachers around
whom worship culture would happen. And once someone pointed this
(40:40):
out to me and asked me a question about it,
and I said, well, they're allowing it because you don't.
You don't have worshipers around you. If you're paying attention
noticing that's happening and smashing it down and stopping it
because it's not good for them or for you. It
actually creates a distance. But you see it out there
and then something you said earlier that just on a
(41:03):
personal level. One of the things I didn't really expect
about doing this work publicly, and especially as it's grown,
is how people change toward you in their behavior because
of their perception of you. Either that you know, I
wonder if i've sometimes I remember emails would come to
(41:25):
the website and I would you know this was, you know,
going back years. I don't see that emails really anymore
unless it's something I really have to see. And they
would say things like, oh, I would love to just
go on holiday with you for a week and we
could just talk about energy the whole time. And I
remember thinking, yeah, I'm not going to talk about energy
the whole time, Like that is my work and that
(41:46):
is a huge, vitally important part of who I am.
But there are other sides of me that you don't
actually know that might piss you off, like and so
the thing that I've learned, especially in recent years is
projection that we all have on each other is a
weird thing. When you do a thing that's visible because
(42:07):
either the person knows your work and therefore has an
idea about you, or has an attachment to how you're
going to respond to them, or vice versa that you
have to deal with. Or there's the other flip, which
is someone doesn't know what the hell you do, but
someone at a party happens to tell them, oh, they've
got a big YouTube following, and then all of a sudden,
(42:28):
it's someone who wants to have a conversation with someone
who's got you get immersed in all this stuff. That's
just kind of a little bit. Now I'm better, but
I went through several years of like, oh my god,
what this is weird? Like, yeah, you get entangled in
people's projections around success or notoriety or and I had
(42:51):
a few very famous friends in my younger years, and
I would witness this happen with them, and I would
always be.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Like, oh wow, how odd.
Speaker 4 (42:58):
And now you know, I have my own more microcosmic
experiences of it. But it's funny what we what we
do to each other, and the way that we don't
come in clean and unattached. We come in with all
kinds of ideas and you often have to go, okay,
am I in front of a person who is with
me and who is present and we're in complete, honest,
(43:20):
energetic relay with each other? Or am I in front
of a person who I can't reach? They don't want
to reach me, but they've got some idea about what's
going on here. And I mean that doesn't just happen
because of doing public work. I mean that happens in
every area of life. So that's why it's such a joy,
isn't it. When you're with someone you can just flow yeah,
and it's like, oh cool, we're not We're not worried
(43:40):
about what we each have or what we each do.
We're just human to human in this moment that those
those pure friendships and connections and sometimes strangers are just
the best, Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Much, and what you said, Oh my god, so much.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
One of the things too, that that you pointed out
that I think is important for people to hear, especially
if anyone is listening that is on this path. You know,
you are a healer, a teacher. You are being used.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Something you said.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
When you notice it, it is so important that you
step in and cut that off because you are the
one that is creating the path forward of how you
will be perceived. To some extent, a lot is out
of our control, but to how you're going to navigate
that energy and that movement as it moves. And it's like, yeah,
(44:34):
I think I remember. I once had this experience where
someone and we hadn't even worked together in this sense,
like I hadn't, I hadn't done anyone on one work
with them, but they had consumed some things that had
done and had reached out and were just like really
upset and really emotional, and they're like, but.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
You are my healer. You are my healer.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
And I had to be, you know, very direct and
say I am a healer. That's between me and God.
I am a healer. Yes, I am not your healer.
You are your healer. You are your healer. I am
not your healer. I am a healer, you know, and
everything I touch and work on can channel that.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
But you don't own that. You don't own me.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
You haven't even gotten my consent for that. You are
projecting a mothering you would like to receive from me,
you know. And wow, there's so many dimensions and dynamics
that you know, we can go down with that kind
of an example, but it's it's important. And I think
an experience that I've had and me and you talk
like we'd be talking, so we're always kind of in
(45:43):
the nuance of some of what that experience is like.
But you know, another thing that I think is interesting,
and I don't know how much you get this, but
when people connect to you deeply or something you're sharing,
that's really it's just God, it's and it's just evoking
in you, you know, like I don't know where it lands,
where it goes, but I trust that it goes where
(46:05):
it needs to. People project on you their value system,
their success system. So something I get a lot from
people who only know of me, perhaps what I share
on Instagram, which is not a lot.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Is oh my God, Like I love this so how
do we scale this?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
So how do we do this?
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Or you should be here or you should be that,
And I'm like, that's not my dream, right Like the
fame to me is a burden.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
That's not my dream.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I have no desire to scale this and do anything
that's mainstream, corporate, bigger founder of this and exada da
da da this many people. That's not at all anything
I want to do, you know. But the way the
way people can hold you and kind of see a
projection of what they want your purpose to be or
(46:57):
how they want it to be manifest so that it
can align with what they identify as valuable. I feel
that I am always my whole life have been very
consciously and intentionally sidestepping all of that and saying, sure,
I get it. You think I should be this and
I should make everything my face or my name. That's
(47:18):
not how I want to do it, and that's now
not how God's telling me to do it, even if
I could do it that way.
Speaker 4 (47:25):
I love that you're bringing this up because we can.
We can take this away from the example of the
work that we do in the world, and we can
bring it right back to all of us as human
beings where you know you are with a friend and
the friend has your best interests at heart, and there's
something they're like cheering you on about and they're so
happy you're doing it, and all of a sudden, you
(47:46):
do a complete three sixteen you go the other way,
and that friend will still cheer you on. And then
there are other friends who were your friend because they
were kind of invested that you were going that way.
They didn't really care so much about you or understand
what you really wanted or needed, but they were living
in a reality in their own mind that they're in
relationship with you, but they're not really there in relationship
(48:08):
with the aspect of you that suits what they need
and want, which is very different. Right, And I'm going
through I think in my personal life in the last
two three years, I've gone through a lot of that.
I've gone through a lot of Oh, this is a
transactional relationship. You don't see it, you're just in it.
(48:30):
But I'm seeing it really clearly now and I didn't before,
and that's because I was a vibrational match to it before.
And then I had a couple of major discernment lessons
in my life in the last couple of years that
were really tough, but were really like an awakening around
who can I trust? Am I trusting myself enough? Can
(48:52):
I deepen how to trust myself?
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Ah?
Speaker 4 (48:54):
These are the people I can trust. And I see
how these people might need or want something from me,
And some of that's been to do with the work,
and some of that's been just personal life. So I
think the comes a point where you get clearer about
the people that you know love you for you, and
you know those people because you feel completely relaxed when
you're with them and they've seen you through all ups
(49:17):
and downs. And either you'll meet incredibly non attached, wise, loving,
compassionate people who can do that next week when they
meet you for the first time ever. And then you
have those certain friends in your life. They're in it
for you as a soul, not you as an identity,
because our identity changes all the time as we go
through our life. Our soul doesn't, but our identity shifts
(49:38):
and changes and grows. So when we think of projection,
projection that other people put onto us, they're actually trapped
in their own identity and their own way of seeing things,
and they're just trying to put us into a part
in their play that we may or may not fit.
So we can't blame them for that. But what we
can do is go, oh wow, I just put my
(50:00):
myself in that part for that person for two years,
and now I've come out feeling a little bit of resentment. Okay,
I'd better forgive myself. I'd better forgive them, and I'll
move on And I won't I won't let myself fit
in that box next time. And I mean, I think
we all do it because, like you said, we learn
it in childhood. It's a survival strategy. So we're all
(50:20):
kind of undoing ourselves and reinventing ourselves as we go.
But I love that you the example you gave of
it through work. Isn't that so true of who we
are as humans every day? And us too, Like you know,
we have to catch ourselves in our own minds or
feelings when we get activated by a certain person or
(50:40):
a certain thing and it's like, oh, is this is
this pure in me? Or is this coming from some
kind of wound or compensation. Yeah, that's been another interesting
just for me personally, just kind of keeping my eye
very closely on all of that. The last few years.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
I love the way that you said that our identity
is always changing, but our soul isn't. Like that's incredibly
powerful and just the visualization of that of like that
deeper core, right, Like that is the constant, that is
the oven that's always on. But we do get the
opportunity to elevate in our identities and to constantly be
(51:16):
kind of reviewing what contracts we think we've signed with
who we are and how we need to present or be.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
Yeah, and as you say that, I just feel cool
to say something. You and I have spoken about some
of the very difficult relationships we've had in our past.
You know, relationships that we were in that weren't very
We weren't honoring ourselves by being in them because they
weren't honoring us, right, Yeah, And I think there is
(51:46):
something too recognizing that when we go down those paths
we're not making a mistake. We might come out of
them and go, oh my god, why did I do that? Well,
we did it to learn, Like we if we stay
in something that we then reflect was either damaging or
difficult for us, we will we will really remember that
(52:08):
lesson Sure, we may repeat it in more subtle ways
a few times just to kind of really test our discernment.
But the soul is the essence of who we are.
And let's say one of your lessons or my lessons
was to come in and learn about discernment. Well, guess
how we're going to learn discernment.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Sadly, Master Clare.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
Yeah, we are not going to just be like, oh,
I can see you know, We're gonna no matter how
intuitive you are, your human lessons are your human lessons,
And we all have blind spots for reasons, because those
are areas that we're supposed to develop our seeing. So
like everyone else when in it, I don't always feel that,
you know. I'm like, oh, you know, I can have
the woe is me. I can have the I can
(52:51):
have the upset, I can have all those feelings and things.
But I think the difference for me now at this
age versus in my twenties, when I would have just
been fully immersed in the tim hood or whatever I
was feeling at the time without as much awareness as
I'll have Now, I'm like, oh, okay, this is this
is a learning period.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
Ouch.
Speaker 4 (53:10):
I need to look I need to be as graceful
and kind to myself right now because I'm in a
learning period. Whereas if I go back to my twenties,
when I had a lot more self attack and a
lot more self judgment, and I think, really self hatred
was what was underneath some of that for me. When I,
you know, look back on it now in a way
I would never behave toward myself now, I go, oh,
(53:32):
I see, I had to walk into some of those things.
And so I say that because I think, especially in
spirituality or self growth culture, there can be this goal
of well I need to be ascended or I need
to be healed, and I'm like, well, life will, Life
will do that for us. But until we die, we
don't know what our healing is. Until we pass over.
(53:53):
Now we don't actually, well we don't, right, And even
in your deathbed, will you be able to look back?
And no, the game can continues like we are. We
are alive in the game right now and it's continuing.
So I think sometimes we have this perception that we
can judge ourselves, and we can't really and we shouldn't.
But equally, if you are recovering from something really difficult,
(54:16):
try not to judge yourself because that is not the
time that you want to be pointing the finger at
yourself as why did I get myself into this?
Speaker 3 (54:23):
No?
Speaker 4 (54:23):
No, no, let the wounds heal. This is the time
for the sling to do its work. This is not
the time to go. How did this happen to the shoulder?
Speaker 1 (54:31):
No?
Speaker 4 (54:31):
No, no, this happened to the shoulder for a reason.
And there's a learning and now we're recovering. And sorry
to use you.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
I'm a living example. Tell the people.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
So.
Speaker 4 (54:42):
Yeah, but that for me is the truth that I
that I couldn't embody in my twenties. I was too
hard on myself and too caught up in let's call
it self growth success culture, which doesn't even it's not
even a thing. But you know, the people who taught me,
that was kind of how they saw it at the time.
And I think that was more the culture twenty five
(55:03):
years ago.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Oh my gosh, everything that you
just said was so powerful, so powerful and so important. Yeah,
And I think and that culture is still that culture
that you're talking about. It is alive and well in
course culture and all the people that are selling quote
unquote ascension based on monetary abundance, I think that's that's
(55:29):
how I perceive it and see it, but it is,
it's all those other layers. It is like all of
those all of those other layers that was really really powerful.
Your latest book, The Future Human is available absolutely everywhere Audible, Amazon,
Barnes and Noble, all the places. And your latest album,
(55:52):
though I do recommend that everyone kind of goes back
into the archives. Your latest album, Medicine Mantras Volume two,
just really in this last year. So I think that
is just the beautiful chance, an opportunity for people to
kind of begin their deep dive into your work and
into your community. As I close out every episode, I
(56:13):
love to share with everyone a little bit of soul work.
And so what that could be for you to the
audience is anything like a journal prompt, a thought starter,
a somatic practice, but something that those who are resonating
with this episode can use to integrate even deeper into
the things that we have been talking about.
Speaker 4 (56:35):
What I feel cool to do, and I do this
on my tour and every tour stop is to invite
everyone listening and watching to grab a pen and paper,
or if you prefer to type, pull up a document
on your screen or on your phone and write the sentence,
what does my soul want to tell me today? Question mark?
(56:59):
What does my soul want to tell me today? Question mark?
And then give yourself one, two, three, four, five minutes
to see what words come through for you And for
some of you, there may be no words. Sometimes people
don't get words, but most of the time people get words.
And it might be a sentence, it might.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
Be a paragraph.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
But it's a really powerful connect with the voice of
our higher self, our soul that everyone can do. And
that's something I like to share because I believe that
the reason channels channelers who do it publicly like I do,
I think the point of our existence is to spread
it through osmosis, not that everyone has to become a
(57:40):
channel the way that it looks like I'm doing it publicly,
but for our lives, it's so powerful to just connect
with your soul, your higher self, your guides, and it's
something all of us can do. So what does my
soul want to tell me today? And give yourself two
three minutes to let the answer come.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
I love that. I love that. I love that, And
do it again and again and again.
Speaker 4 (58:06):
You can do it every day, and then you can
start asking other questions. So when I channel for myself
and I do it on my iPhone, because I you know,
it's usually with me, I use the notes app, I
write the date at the top, and I'll normally have
a few questions. There might be some things going on
in my life I want to ask about, or things
in the world, but I'll always start with the question
(58:26):
how am I doing? Question mark? How am I doing?
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Question mark?
Speaker 4 (58:32):
And that gives them an opportunity to tell me something
that I'm not going fishing for, you know, or that
I haven't got my eye on. And so I get
initially this frave of oh oh interesting, or to see
things differently, and then I'll ask my questions. So you
could be as simple as how am I doing? But
the reason for people who've never done it before, I
use a sentence like what does my soul want to
(58:54):
tell me today? Is it bypasses the idea you have
to meet your guides. Not everyone's going to meet their guides.
I didn't go looking for them. It just happened to me.
But your guides aren't the only useful source of information.
Your own wisdom is the wisdom of your friends and
loved ones. Is the wisdom of nature, the wisdom of animals,
and the wisdom of our own higher self and soul
(59:15):
connection which we all have and can access.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
That is so good. Y'all have fun with that. Start
to see what happens in your life after you bring
this powerful activity in. Yeah, thank you. That might be
my favorite soul work we've had on this show. Thank
you very much for that.
Speaker 3 (59:42):
Scroll down in the show notes of this episode if
you're listening on Apple or Spotify or YouTube, and you
will see links on all the ways to get connected
to Lead. There'll be a connection a link to his website,
to his Instagram, to his tour, and of course to
the latest book that is available absolutely everywhere, The Future
(01:00:05):
Human with the amazing Miss Meredith, with the amazing Regina Meredith, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere.
Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
Lee, Thank you so much, Thank you my friend. Delightful
to be with you always.
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Catch everyone next episode.
Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Please, if you get an opportunity, take a second and
go on Apple or go on YouTube and leave a
comment or leave a five star review with some words
connected to them. I would appreciate that. Thank you for listening.
Big love now Misdayday. The content presented on deeply Well
(01:00:46):
serves solely for educational and informational purposes. It should not
be considered a replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance,
and does not constitute a provider patient relationship. As always,
it is advisable to consult with your healthcare provider or
health team for any specific concerns or questions that you
(01:01:07):
may have. Connect with me on social at Debbie Brown.
That's Twitter and Instagram, or you can go to my
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the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget, Please rate, review,
and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Deeply
Well is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network.
(01:01:29):
It's produced by Jacqueis Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown.
The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard That's by Jarrelen Glass from
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app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaks to the planet.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I'll go by the name of Charlamagne Tha God. And
guess what, I can't wait to see y'all at the
third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival. That's right, We're coming
back to Atlanta, Georgia, Saturday, April twenty six at Poeman
Yards and it's hosted by none other than Decisions, Decisions,
May d B and Weezy. Okay, we got the R
and B Money podcast. We're taking Jay Valentine. We got
the Woman of All Podcasts with Sarah Jake Roberts. We
(00:22):
got Good Mom's Bad Choices. Carrie Champion will be there
with her next sports podcast, and the Trap Nerds podcast,
with more to be announced. And of course it's bigger
than podcasts. We're bringing the Black Effect marketplace with black
owned businesses plus the food truck court to keep you
fed while you visit us. All right, listen, you don't
want to miss this. Tap in and grab your tickets
now at Black Effect dot Com Flash Podcast Festival.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Take a deep in through your nose. Holds it.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Now, release slowly again, deep in haale hold release, repeating
(01:32):
internally to yourself as you connect to my voice. I
am deeply well I am deeply Well.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I am deeply wow.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply Well Podcast.
Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on
your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,
and ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care.
(02:24):
This is where we heal, this is where we transcend.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
In today's episode, I am so excited.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
First things first, Hey y'all, it's Debbie, Debbie Brown.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I'm so happy to be here with you.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
And if you're watching on YouTube, you kind of see
me in my very stylish, humongous sling across my arm.
So I will have some updates for you on some
of those things that are happening with me very very soon.
But I am so excited to have you back here,
and I'm just so excited for this episode. We are
really climbing into some new terrain in this episode, and
(02:58):
I am joined by a very dear friend, and I
think that the timing couldn't be more perfect.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
So, without further ado, I would love today.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
To share with you that I am having a special
conversation with one of my favorite people. He is a
special and gifted being who I have not yet had
the pleasure of hosting on this show, but I have
been on his on one of my favorite interviews I've
ever done, and I'm so excited to introduce you to
my dear friend.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Lee Harris.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Lee is a globally acclaimed energy intuitive channeler, author and musician.
His grounded practical teachings focus on the expansion of your
intuition and awareness to help you live a more heart
centered life. Lee Harris is the author of The Future
Human and several other titles. He leads a vibrant online
(03:51):
community that reaches one million people every month. His acclaimed
online events and members community, which is called The Portal,
our adventure into the deepest aspects of living, loving, and awakening.
His new book was just released on March eighteenth, The
Future Human New Ways of Living and Being on Earth
(04:12):
by Lee Harris and Regina Meredith. This book presents a
series of profound conversation between Lee's guides Disease and award
winning journalist Regina Meredith. Through her insightful and thought provoking questions,
Regina draws out illuminating and inspiring perspectives on the evolution
of the human mind, body, and soul, as well as
(04:34):
our relationships, gender dynamics, and societal systems.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Welcome to this show.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Lead good friend, Thank you for having met with you.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
So happy to have you here. And you just you've
been on a whirlwind. You have been touring all over
the world. You have been just sharing so much. And
I think I got you when you just like made
it back home and right before you're heading.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Off to Australia and other parts. And how how are you.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
I'm good, Actually, I'm good. It's been a big year,
but it's I had this really strong feeling that it
was time to go back out into the world after
several years. You know, in twenty twenty we had to
cancel and postpone a bunch of events and so I
just thought, I'm going to wait. And then last year
I thought, this is the time we need to go
and be with people. So yeah, we were about to
(05:22):
take the tour to Australia and New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
And yeah, but I'm good. I mean, like everybody, it's
been a lot, it's been quite quite a time, quite
a life process. But today I'm really good and I'm
very happy to be with you.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, so happy to have you here.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
And I think I mean I have so many questions
and I can't wait to dive into this book, because
to say that this book is timely it seems like
such an understatement. We are in revolutionary times, really in
revolutionary times. I'm so curious, and you know, I think
(05:59):
something that a lot of listeners on this show are
either already connected to or at the beginning stages of
really kind of cultivating and firming up. It would be
the connection to one's intuition and as someone like yourself
who is an acclaimed channel and connector to the divine
(06:21):
and you've been doing this work for so long, you know,
I'm so curious, and I know we're going to dive
into it, especially through the lens of the book.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
But intuitively and spiritually, what.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Are you feeling about this moment as a man, as
a being on earth that also has this heightened sensitivity
to the bigger themes happening?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
So spiritually, if I look at it through a spiritual
lens and a lens of energy, it feels like where
we are as the world is exactly where I thought
we were going to get to, which is this time
of chaos, a time of things falling apart in order
to get better, a kind of battle, if you like,
between love and fear, or love and darkness when it
(07:11):
comes to how humans want to treat each other. So
I guess spiritually, I kind of have known this time
was coming for a long time, because it has been prophesied,
my own guides spoke about it to me. However, as
a human being going through it, it's intense because even
if you have a knowing that things need to change
(07:34):
and that there does need to be a people revolution,
and we're definitely at the beginning of that right now,
we're very evidently at the beginning of it, whereas it's
been forecast for years. I think it's a lot because
just as humans, you know, we all. I have my
own thoughts, my own feelings, my own history, and as
(07:55):
I move into this very new time, like everybody is,
things start to come undone in you or things things
are no longer held in place in your belief system
because the thing that you were believing in has radically changed.
So I think, like a lot of people, I feel
the intense healing of this time for myself personally. And
(08:17):
then I also and I think many of us feel
this too, for those of us who are a bit
more prepared for this time. Doesn't mean you always navigate
it gracefully, but it's not such of a shock as
it is to some other people. I really feel for
the people who are going through the shock of this
time and the pain of this time, and the suffering
(08:37):
of this time, and because there's a lot of that
going around as well. And so my guides always said,
there will be a group of you whose job it
will be to hold space when these times come around.
And I think that's why so many people are feeling
a call to do that now. Whether you just do
that in your personal life for people you love, or
(08:59):
whether you are an actual healer or coach or therapist
or whatever, the modality is, you're holding space for people
to let their feelings and their thoughts have a space
to unravel safely, which is not how many of us
grew up, you know. I was born in seventy six
in Britain. That wasn't what was going on when I
(09:21):
was a kid. So I'm happy that there are more
resources and that the Internet has allowed a connection between
us all and a place to find what you might need.
But yeah, I mean, these are big times.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
These are big times.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I mean, yeah, everything that you said, let's just settle
into it. Two of the things that came up as
you were saying that is it for those that are
feeling really rocked in this moment especially, and I think
to exactly what you said, We're all feeling it, but
we're feeling it in different capacities. Like some of us
(09:56):
are feeling it from the observational sense, some of us
are feeling from the personalized experience sense. And I do
feel I feel so prepared to be alive right now.
I think that's the best way to put it. I
feel like, oh, put me in coach. This is what
I was born for. I came for this exact moment.
(10:21):
Not to say that there aren't days that utterly exhaust
me and also break my heart, you know, but yeah,
I do feel prepared to be alive right now. But
what do you think as the broader theme, what is
the pain of this time?
Speaker 4 (10:37):
I think the pain of this time for I mean,
there are many pains, right but what hits me in
this moment is is the lack of safety. I think
I think one of the pains for people is the
lack of safety, whether it's that you're a group that
is completely being marginalized or continuing marginalization, or you're not
(10:58):
being looked after, you're not being served. How is the
planet going to survive? Is the big kind of question
that so many people have. And then also the levels
of deception that we're learning about that have taken place
within our power systems. And again, it was always forecast
that a lot would come out during these times, things
(11:19):
that we didn't know or that we had lived through,
and so it's a little bit like, I mean, if
you want to look at it dramatically, it's like learning
that the babysitter is also a psychopath and although that's
who you've been left in the house with. But then
also there's the child part of yourself that can go, oh,
(11:39):
my god, what the hell is going on? And then
there's also the adult part of us that that's also
our job. Our job is to be here as adults
in this time and to the best of our ability,
and that will depend on your circumstances all that day.
What can we do to help, whether it's helping the
people who negatively affected by everything that's going on, or
(12:00):
whether you are one of the frontline people to change
the paradigm you know, you might be an activist in
politics right now, you might be an activist on the
front lines for the environment. Who knows what your role is?
And our roles are all different. And I will say
one thing I think that's really important. If you are
in shock right now, or if you are in grief
(12:22):
right now, or the rug in your life has been
pulled out from under you, your only job, apart from
any responsibilities you might have, is to recover, to recover yourself.
And sometimes I see people in that state, and I've
been in that state myself a few times in my life.
That is not the time to try and save the
(12:44):
rest of the world. That is the time to go. Oh,
for whatever reason, something seismic just happened to me. It's
going to change me forever. But it might take me
six months, nine months, eighteen months to recover. And if
I've got kids, or I've got up I'm a career
for people, or I've got a really hard job, I
(13:04):
have to make my priority in the time I can
recovering myself. It's the put your own oxygen mask on first,
so that you're breathing and have enough oxygen to be
able to put the oxygen mask on for someone else,
and I think that's a place that healers or sensitives
with an over developed responsibility around pain or suffering, or
(13:25):
people who are struggling. That can be a bit of
a mind trip. And I think sometimes we're brought to
our knees so that we stop behaving in ways that
are helping others but costing ourselves. Sometimes we're brought to
our knees because we have to learn how to look
after ourselves. And I know it's happened to me. I
know you and I in our personal chats have talked
about the moments in our life where we've been forced
(13:48):
to look after ourselves in ways that we didn't know
how before or no one else was doing it for us.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
Yeah, yeah, I I oh, I thank you for saying
all of that. Like I think that is so perfectly
timed and just so important.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
And I just like.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
That that term right because I think a lot of
a way that it's being positioned, which is accurate and important,
has been around resting, right. But there are some ways
that that doesn't fully make sense to people's minds or lives,
like especially if it feels like there is all these
activations coming in this idea of like rest with all
(14:31):
this happening. But when you said recover, you have to
recover to be in this like you gotta, for lack
of a better term, you gotta be in like fighting
shape to be alive right now, emotionally, spiritually, physically, you know,
like mentally, like we have to be in better shape
(14:54):
in all those capacities to be really present for what
this moment is.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, and it's interesting you say that because last year
I had this really strong feeling for myself, I have
to get stronger physically. I mean I was doing it
mentally and emotionally in various ways, but I had this
real strong feeling of I have to clean up my
physical act and get as strong as I can. And
for someone else, it might be that they're going to
(15:20):
therapy for the first time and beginning to look at
the map of who they are because so many of
us weren't invited to that kind of understanding. Many of
us fell into self growth, either because we knew there
was something else to life, or some kind of crisis
took us there. And actually the truth is the map
(15:41):
of who we all are is massively affecting our daily lives.
So even with everything you and I are talking about
right now and we have to be in shape, there
is a lot of magic and a lot of light
on the planet that I have to report every month.
I do an energy update on YouTube the first of
every month, and you know, I get eight themes usually
(16:03):
for the month, and there's always a couple that are
really quite high and positive that sometimes more than a couple.
And it reminds me that on any given day, your
day can start really badly. Your day might start with
some depressing news or something that makes you feel heavy,
or you wake up just not feeling great, and your
(16:25):
mind can start to tell you a story of oh,
this isn't a good day, Oh I should just I
two pm. That afternoon, some miracle happens, who knows what
it is. Someone gives you some news, someone comes to visit,
something happens in your neighborhood that and so those are
the times we're in as well. They're fast in good
(16:46):
ways as well as in challenging ways. And so I
think that's also why I think we have to be
strong because things can change so fast right now, so
we have to kind of be, like you said, ready
for ready for anything that's come. And I think that
strength is a real focus for people at the moment.
(17:06):
And like we said, some people might be doing it physically,
some people might be doing it mentally, some emotionally, but
it's required because these times are strong.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah yeah, yeah, wow, Okay, we have a lot to
dive into. So you have you have already come out
with some pretty amazing projects from past books like Energy Speaks,
which you dropped way back in twenty twelve, to Conversations
(17:36):
with the Z's two in the in the series to
begin with that came out just in the last couple
of years, in addition to all of your musical albums,
which there are many beautiful projects dating all the way
back to twenty ten. My godly you have one, two, three, four, five,
you have like twelve albums.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah, we've got a quo with Buss.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
You've been getting it in with your purpose.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Oh we love music. What can I say?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
You know? Before we get into the latest book, which
is officially out right now in all the places that
you prefer to read and get your books, the future human,
has anything surprised you that came to you that you
channeled in these last few books, that happened. Does it ever, Like,
do things ever happen? And it kind of You're like, Oh,
(18:24):
I mean I knew that was going to happen, but
damn that happened.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Yeah. I think the information surprises me a lot because
you know the thing about being a channeler, So when
I speak to my guides, it's like having a conversation,
like you and I are having a conversation, but I
hear them from just above the left hand side of
my head. So that's like a conversation that takes place
between my mental awareness and what I'm hearing from them.
(18:51):
That's private when I channel for other people, or when
I channel publicly, or when I in the case of
this book, Regina asked questions while I was channeling. That
just comes straight through and out, so I don't have
an opportunity to edit it or to weigh in on it.
So depending on what is asked, I learn things all
(19:14):
the time, Like there are things in this Future Human
book that are quite mind blowing to me, Like I'm like, Wow,
that's something I would have never asked. It's something I
would have never thought about. So I would say regularly,
the channeling surprises me when I'm working as an energy intuitive,
which is kind of like a few rungs down the ladder.
(19:35):
I'm still using my intuition, my guides still tap in,
but I also use my body, and I use my
feeling senses about the energy of who is in front
of me, whether that's an individual or a group, or
if I'm working online, I go a bit more psychic
and feel into who might be watching it. But that
comes from a slightly more grounded place. So when I
do the channeling like in this book, Oh yeah, it's
(19:59):
trippy because it's also it's an interesting experience to give
your energy, your body, your name to something that you
can't always fully vouch for. You know, I can't. I
don't have vouched experience about what they're speaking about. But
boy do they go into quite a lot of detail
with Regina about dimensions of our reality that I'm not
(20:21):
seeing on a daily basis. Yeah, so it's very interesting, deeply.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Well, your most recent book, The Future Human, which you
did with someone that I know.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
For those that watch GAYATV are she is a OG.
She is she is an OG in the game.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
She's a celebrated Gaya TV host Regina Meredith, what initially
brought you to together to create this.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
So Regina had me on her show Open Minds back
in twenty fourteen, and probably I've done that show maybe
ten times over the last decade, and we'd developed a
friendship along the way, you know, we'd go for dinner
and we'd stay in touch and we'd meet up from
time to time. So we'd always said we wanted to
do a project together, but we didn't know when. And
(21:13):
I had this very sudden, unexpected gap in my schedule
two summers ago, and so it was summer of twenty
twenty three, and I just happened to be talking to
her and the idea came up that we could collaborate.
So within three weeks we were doing it, and she
decided to come to England to do it because I
was headed there anyway. So we ended up recording this
(21:34):
in England, and it was a very trippy week because
we had agreed on the kinds of questions that Regina
was going to ask. She wanted to ask about how
can we best live and best serve these times, but
she also wanted to ask about some of the shadow
aspects of our world. So I knew it was going
(21:56):
to be a fairly involved process. But because the book
go into the future by many decades and also goes
way back thousands of years in reference some issues that
we're facing now, it kind of spun us both out.
We did a week of recording, and we do about
three hours a day, and it took about two weeks
(22:18):
to recover. After the recording was over, I just felt
not in my body, not in not how it took
about two weeks because I think we'd gone into this
quite out there high frequency space. So and I've heard
that from people who listen to the audio, which is
the original conversations. The audible is not narrated, it's the
(22:41):
conversations as they happened, so you're hearing it live in
the room. And then the book was created from the
conversations the transcripts and edited. So so they have talked
about feeling this frequency shift or this frequency opening. So yeah,
that was the impetus for the project with Regina, and
(23:01):
we had a great time doing it. You know, we
have such an easy flow in the way that we
both work, so it was it was very easy project
to do. Just a little trippy.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Yeah, how do you recover?
Speaker 4 (23:15):
I recovered by being a bit useless for a couple
of weeks. Honestly, I was a bit useless, like and
I'm not someone who rests easily, like I rest really
enjoyably when I've exerted myself. So I'll come home from
a tour and I will really enjoy two or three
days of rest. But rest to me is not is
(23:38):
not that interesting.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
I feel like I'm here to generate and I'm here
to create, and creating has always been my happy place
since I was a kid. So if I'm not engaging
with people that I enjoy or creating, I'm definitely those
are my extra versions, and then I need introversion just
to recover. But yeah, so what I remember about those
(23:59):
we was just watching things, actually, which is not like
me either. I don't watch many things on television. But
I think I was just very on my couch a
little bit for a week or two and just very
slow and not very not very functional compared to normal
when I'm normally, you know, pretty pretty consistently functional.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Moving and doing and all the things. You have been
channeling thesease now for over twenty years, is that correct?
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Yeah, I'm forty eight and I first heard them when
I was twenty three, wow, twenty five years and then
publicly channeling since two thousand and four, so yeah, it's
been a while.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
And then what makes up disease?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Right?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
So when I first met them, I asked who they
were and they said, well, we're a group. We're not
one individual. You can hear one voice, but we're a group.
And they said, some of us have been incarnate before,
so some of them have been human and they've had
lifetimes on Earth. Others have never. And what they say
is they call themselves a collective consciousness, like a They say,
(25:07):
we're like a library in that we have our own
knowledge base as a group, but we can also connect
with other groups, other beings, other energies to gather what
we need. So they often say they're a voice of
galactic source energy, not because they are purely galactic, although
(25:28):
they say that we're galactic and we've just we just
have had that scrub from our history. So they say,
you're you are all galactic beings incarnate as humans on Earth,
and your humanity is very very important to what's going
on in the universe right now, apparently, So they say
that what's taking place on Earth around consciousness has a
(25:49):
big knock on effect on the rest of the universe.
So that's why they're involved. Because some people have said, well,
what are they getting out of this? What are they doing?
And they'll often say, well, this is our job, you know,
And it's both. I think sometimes we have a how
do I put it? I think sometimes we have an
inappropriate reverence for spirit guides in a way that belittles
(26:11):
ourselves and over daifies of gurus. Them and the Zas
have always said, we are better than you or any
other human. We're just in a different position, in a
different vantage point. It's our job to give you our
advantage point when you want it, and it's your job
to take that dvantage point and see how much of
that advantage point you and all your fellow brothers and
(26:35):
sisters here are capable of embodying on Earth, breaking out
of some of the chains that we've been in, or
some of the false beliefs we've been given that keep
us small and that keep us restricted. So yeah, that's
the best way I guess I could describe who they
have told me that they are. And then over the years,
(26:55):
there's been lots of details, particularly in the conversations with
the Z's books. They go into some of the details
of why I have an alignment with them, who they've been,
all of that stuff, and I don't remember a lot
of it, to be honest, because I don't retain you
don't retain the channeled information unless I retain certain principles
and certain themes.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
But I don't.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
I don't remember sentences or paragraphs or Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I love that. I really love that you said that
we can over kind of.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
What was the term you like dea to fy Yeah, like, yeah,
when we're in communion with spirit or in communion with
guides or ancestors sometimes there Yeah, I've never heard anyone
say that, but I witness it a lot. Whereas when
I'm in communication it really does feel like collaborative process
and not so much like you're speaking to me, okay,
(27:46):
And this is what makes me worthy is that I'm
hearing the thing. That's how it comes across sometimes.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
And I don't know where that came from, Debbie, because
you know, I think because of doing this work now
since my late twenty I was a massive self growth
and spirituality student, Like from the age of sixteen. That
was where my passion went and I was studying and
I was learning, but I didn't. It was only when
I started teaching that I would see this kind of
(28:14):
phenomenon of people giving their power away, either to me
or to disease, and I would be Oh, I was
a little confused by it, and I thought, well, what
is this phenomenon? And I think it's a couple of
couple of reasons I've come up with, and I'm sure
there are many reasons. There's always many reasons. One I
(28:35):
think is religious programming. I think we all grew up
with this idea of you know, God and Jesus are
here and we are down here, and we have to
stay separate. And I never quite felt the truth of that,
and I never felt God or Jesus would want that
for us. I felt like that was a man made
construction and set of rules, which you know, it's There
(28:56):
are many people who've said that before there was government,
there was church, and that church was often used to
control people, which is a shame because it takes away
the beautiful essence of so many of those teachings and
those energies and what they really truly stand for. So
I think that's part one. And then I think part
two is for those of us, myself included, who weren't
(29:18):
raised with spirituality, we go into a world that we
think we know nothing about, and we've been trained to
trust the teacher or the authority figure. So at first
we come in and we're like, well, I know nothing,
so I'm just going to absolutely believe everything you say.
And I think that's why so many of us have
those dodgy experiences with healers that we need to have
(29:41):
along the way. You're like, what the hell just happened
to me at this reiki healer's house. And it's not
that reiki is the problem. It's that you got with
a healer who isn't very aligned with you, or is
just not very aligned in their work. Yeah, but I
doubt yourself because you don't You've not got to the
(30:01):
point of recognizing that everything is human too. And I
think that was a big teaching for me meeting a
few spiritual teachers who really disappointed me in the early years,
you know, people who'd written some of my most beloved books.
And then I would see the way they spoke to
people backstage, and I'd be like, how are these two
things together? So you know, our humanity is always in us,
(30:25):
but so too is our spirituality. And I think luckily
more kids are being raised these days with people holding
space for them to explore their spirit and explore their soul.
But in my generation that wasn't really there. It was
a very rule based society. And so I think when
you then go into spirituality, you give your power away
(30:48):
because you think, well, I know nothing, so I'll just
believe whatever I'm told. And I think that's where some
of the guru culture can come in. And some people
need a guru because it's what they want, that level
of dependent relationship, and that maybe is the best thing
for them, but it doesn't work for everybody. We're all different.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
This conversation is not at all going where I thought
it would go. And I'm so excited and thrilled about
this because what everything that you just said is so
important to say. I think now more than ever, it's
something I think and say or try to address on
this show. And it's just it's it's so it's just
(31:27):
cannot be overset. It's so real and it's funny. It
resonates in so many ways with what you're saying. But
one of the ways it's it's it has come to
me personally. That is always so interesting to me. And
I'm so curious about your experience because your community especially
is just so global and so vast. People get upset
(31:49):
with me. Sometimes in my life, I've had the experience
that I don't act above and it is the strangest,
most confusing experience when people are projecting on you that
they want you to be their authority figure, and or
then you'll get things of like, oh, you're so humble,
(32:09):
or you're so this. It's like, no, I just that's
not a responsibility. I'm here to fulfill. I don't want
to be anyone's authority figure. I don't want to be
in codependence. I want to do my work. I want
to share my work, and if my work touches you,
I pray that you use it in the way that's
necessary and useful and you create your work.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
But this idea, I.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Think, I think that is something that is so deeply
human and so prevalent, and that many people don't fully
understand how they'll trade the codependence with their family or
the codependence with their relationship to now have codependence with
quote unquote spiritual community or religious community, or have codependence
(32:55):
with the person that you're obsessed with on Instagram or
you too, or the person that you know you go
to their events or their retreats or they're this, and
it's like, we're all missing the point if we allow that.
As a teacher, you're missing the.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Point and you are.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Feeding ego if you allow that, if you allow people
to put you in that position and you start to
play that role, and you're missing the point, if you're
connecting to the work, because it's always about how do
you bring God back inside of your own body? How
do you bring God back inside of your own life.
I am not here to be a shepherd. I'm here
(33:34):
to create and to be love and to live my integrity.
To be an example, surely, but not to be everyone's
parent and everyone's permission giver or everyone's you know, reflection
for the way they need to be seen. And I
think that's just important and for anyone listening. You know,
(33:56):
if you are in the place where you are really
needing that from someone, I think that's okay to be
in a season of that, but recognize, you know, you're
in a season where you might you might feel like
you want an example of better parenting that perhaps you
didn't receive, or a better experience of someone. But the
work is incomplete until you're in sovereignty, until you have
(34:20):
opened your connection to the divine and are able to
trust yourself and your choices.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Beautifully said yeah, Beautifully said yeah. I mean lots of
things you said ping for me in my in my
own life experience. And I think I'll go back a
little bit when I first because because channeling wasn't something
I was a fan of, and it wasn't something I
was looking to do. I loved self growth. That was
(34:47):
my jam, you know, and so channeling to me was
something I thought was a little odd, if I'm honest.
And then when it happened to me, I didn't find
it odd that it had happened to me at all,
but I found I was like, oh God, how's this
going to go? If I'm public about this? How many
people are going to disconnect from me because of this?
(35:07):
How many people are going to judge me? And it
did happen. I lost a few friends, you know, who
were like friends who I couldn't understand why this new
thing that I was doing was so challenging for them.
But when I went into the channeling world, and I
was taken to a few different channeling conferences as a speaker.
I was shocked how many people were how do I
(35:32):
put it, It felt like they were feeding on the
good vibrations from the channel, and then they'd go away
and they'd need to come back again a week later
to feed again because they weren't taking any actual nutrition
from it. They weren't taking the nutrition into their body
and letting it push into the part of them that
maybe needed to look at their codependency instead. This became
(35:54):
the new codependent relationship. This is how I feel good.
It almost became like a drug for some people. And
I would see that and I would think, oh, I mean,
there is definitely a feeling of expansiveness that comes from channeling,
but if you're if you're using it right, you'll get
that at first. But then it will ask you to
(36:15):
look at some areas in your life, or it will
put a few things in front of you that you
can then tweak and refine. And so I think the
difference is, you know, I'm going back to what you're
saying about codependency, and I think sometimes spirituality or looking
up to some other soothing figure or authority figure. We
put them in that position and we deny ourselves ever
(36:38):
becoming that position. But the truth is we're actually here
to learn.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Right.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
The reason I so admire so many of my friends
and I've always had friends who are older than me,
like twenty years older than me thirty because I loved
like they knew things, they embodied something that I wasn't
capable of. And still to this day, you know, I
love my my friends who are way wiser than I
am in certain areas that I'll never be, but I
(37:05):
do recognize that I learn a bit more just by
being in their orbit. So I think spirituality is an
osmosis engine. It should be something that you immerse yourself
in to become more of it, not to become a
transactional customer of the person that you have.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
You know you don't want to.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
For me, it just isn't a lifelong Okay, I'm going
to be a lifelong student of this one person, but
that's me and I come from a much more multi
dimensional viewpoint. I don't want to take away from certain
people for whom the Guru was there deepening with spirituality
for a decade or because there are different paths, but
for me it was much more. There's so much going
(37:48):
on here. I don't want to get into a transactional
codependent situation, and that just never felt true to me.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Yeah god, it's just that this is necessary and important. Yeah,
everything that you said.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Deeply, Well.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I believe in reverence for your teachers, right, I believe
in the sacredness of what that relationship between teacher and
student is, the relationship I have with many of my teachers,
the relationship students have with me like that is an
important relationship, especially.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
In this work.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
But having reverence and gratitude for your teacher and the
places you were able to go because they shared learning
with you, knowledge, wisdom, and wanting to worship the teacher,
those are very very different things. There should be respect,
There should be a certain pride taken in the years
(38:54):
that you are a student, in the fact that your
whole life you'll be a student of something or various
things things always. But when it comes to now you're
exerting the effort to worship a teacher, to bypass yourself
or to please, or to whatever kind of transaction or
exchange that becomes, that's dangerous.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
It's very dangerous.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
And you know who I think it's even more dangerous for.
And we don't talk about this enough is the teacher.
And I have seen people walk themselves off a cliff
because they've allowed worship and you watch it happening and
you're like, oh God, this isn't going to go well
for you. You shouldn't feed on that energy. That energy
is not yours to feed on it. It's not clean,
(39:37):
it's not nutritious, it's dangerous. It's going to inflate you.
So whatever wound you have of inadequacy or I'm not
an but our self worth issues are our self worth
issues to deal with as human beings. We can't take
an area of our life where we are perhaps appreciated
(39:58):
and use that as a place to hide and not
deal with your self worth issues. So you see a
lot of people, a lot of people in that dynamic.
And it because I've been close to a couple of
people who have, let's say, abused that worship energy. I
got to see it very young, and it was a
(40:18):
great warning to me. And I'm you know what, I've
noticed I don't really look online anymore. Over the last
few years. I've kind of backed away from looking at
comments and things, which is great for me now, but
I used to notice there would be certain teachers around
whom worship culture would happen. And once someone pointed this
(40:40):
out to me and asked me a question about it,
and I said, well, they're allowing it because you don't.
You don't have worshipers around you. If you're paying attention
noticing that's happening and smashing it down and stopping it
because it's not good for them or for you. It
actually creates a distance. But you see it out there
and then something you said earlier that just on a
(41:03):
personal level. One of the things I didn't really expect
about doing this work publicly, and especially as it's grown,
is how people change toward you in their behavior because
of their perception of you. Either that you know, I
wonder if i've sometimes I remember emails would come to
(41:25):
the website and I would you know this was, you know,
going back years. I don't see that emails really anymore
unless it's something I really have to see. And they
would say things like, oh, I would love to just
go on holiday with you for a week and we
could just talk about energy the whole time. And I
remember thinking, yeah, I'm not going to talk about energy
the whole time, Like that is my work and that
(41:46):
is a huge, vitally important part of who I am.
But there are other sides of me that you don't
actually know that might piss you off, like and so
the thing that I've learned, especially in recent years is
projection that we all have on each other is a
weird thing. When you do a thing that's visible because
(42:07):
either the person knows your work and therefore has an
idea about you, or has an attachment to how you're
going to respond to them, or vice versa that you
have to deal with. Or there's the other flip, which
is someone doesn't know what the hell you do, but
someone at a party happens to tell them, oh, they've
got a big YouTube following, and then all of a sudden,
(42:28):
it's someone who wants to have a conversation with someone
who's got you get immersed in all this stuff. That's
just kind of a little bit. Now I'm better, but
I went through several years of like, oh my god,
what this is weird? Like, yeah, you get entangled in
people's projections around success or notoriety or and I had
(42:51):
a few very famous friends in my younger years, and
I would witness this happen with them, and I would
always be.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Like, oh wow, how odd.
Speaker 4 (42:58):
And now you know, I have my own more microcosmic
experiences of it. But it's funny what we what we
do to each other, and the way that we don't
come in clean and unattached. We come in with all
kinds of ideas and you often have to go, okay,
am I in front of a person who is with
me and who is present and we're in complete, honest,
(43:20):
energetic relay with each other? Or am I in front
of a person who I can't reach? They don't want
to reach me, but they've got some idea about what's
going on here. And I mean that doesn't just happen
because of doing public work. I mean that happens in
every area of life. So that's why it's such a joy,
isn't it. When you're with someone you can just flow yeah,
and it's like, oh cool, we're not We're not worried
(43:40):
about what we each have or what we each do.
We're just human to human in this moment that those
those pure friendships and connections and sometimes strangers are just
the best, Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Much, and what you said, Oh my god, so much.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
One of the things too, that that you pointed out
that I think is important for people to hear, especially
if anyone is listening that is on this path. You know,
you are a healer, a teacher. You are being used.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Something you said.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
When you notice it, it is so important that you
step in and cut that off because you are the
one that is creating the path forward of how you
will be perceived. To some extent, a lot is out
of our control, but to how you're going to navigate
that energy and that movement as it moves. And it's like, yeah,
(44:34):
I think I remember. I once had this experience where
someone and we hadn't even worked together in this sense,
like I hadn't, I hadn't done anyone on one work
with them, but they had consumed some things that had
done and had reached out and were just like really
upset and really emotional, and they're like, but.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
You are my healer. You are my healer.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
And I had to be, you know, very direct and
say I am a healer. That's between me and God.
I am a healer. Yes, I am not your healer.
You are your healer. You are your healer. I am
not your healer. I am a healer, you know, and
everything I touch and work on can channel that.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
But you don't own that. You don't own me.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
You haven't even gotten my consent for that. You are
projecting a mothering you would like to receive from me,
you know. And wow, there's so many dimensions and dynamics
that you know, we can go down with that kind
of an example, but it's it's important. And I think
an experience that I've had and me and you talk
like we'd be talking, so we're always kind of in
(45:43):
the nuance of some of what that experience is like.
But you know, another thing that I think is interesting,
and I don't know how much you get this, but
when people connect to you deeply or something you're sharing,
that's really it's just God, it's and it's just evoking
in you, you know, like I don't know where it lands,
where it goes, but I trust that it goes where
(46:05):
it needs to. People project on you their value system,
their success system. So something I get a lot from
people who only know of me, perhaps what I share
on Instagram, which is not a lot.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Is oh my God, Like I love this so how
do we scale this?
Speaker 2 (46:23):
So how do we do this?
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Or you should be here or you should be that,
And I'm like, that's not my dream, right Like the
fame to me is a burden.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
That's not my dream.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I have no desire to scale this and do anything
that's mainstream, corporate, bigger founder of this and exada da
da da this many people. That's not at all anything
I want to do, you know. But the way the
way people can hold you and kind of see a
projection of what they want your purpose to be or
(46:57):
how they want it to be manifest so that it
can align with what they identify as valuable. I feel
that I am always my whole life have been very
consciously and intentionally sidestepping all of that and saying, sure,
I get it. You think I should be this and
I should make everything my face or my name. That's
(47:18):
not how I want to do it, and that's now
not how God's telling me to do it, even if
I could do it that way.
Speaker 4 (47:25):
I love that you're bringing this up because we can.
We can take this away from the example of the
work that we do in the world, and we can
bring it right back to all of us as human
beings where you know you are with a friend and
the friend has your best interests at heart, and there's
something they're like cheering you on about and they're so
happy you're doing it, and all of a sudden, you
(47:46):
do a complete three sixteen you go the other way,
and that friend will still cheer you on. And then
there are other friends who were your friend because they
were kind of invested that you were going that way.
They didn't really care so much about you or understand
what you really wanted or needed, but they were living
in a reality in their own mind that they're in
relationship with you, but they're not really there in relationship
(48:08):
with the aspect of you that suits what they need
and want, which is very different. Right, And I'm going
through I think in my personal life in the last
two three years, I've gone through a lot of that.
I've gone through a lot of Oh, this is a
transactional relationship. You don't see it, you're just in it.
(48:30):
But I'm seeing it really clearly now and I didn't before,
and that's because I was a vibrational match to it before.
And then I had a couple of major discernment lessons
in my life in the last couple of years that
were really tough, but were really like an awakening around
who can I trust? Am I trusting myself enough? Can
(48:52):
I deepen how to trust myself?
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Ah?
Speaker 4 (48:54):
These are the people I can trust. And I see
how these people might need or want something from me,
And some of that's been to do with the work,
and some of that's been just personal life. So I
think the comes a point where you get clearer about
the people that you know love you for you, and
you know those people because you feel completely relaxed when
you're with them and they've seen you through all ups
(49:17):
and downs. And either you'll meet incredibly non attached, wise, loving,
compassionate people who can do that next week when they
meet you for the first time ever. And then you
have those certain friends in your life. They're in it
for you as a soul, not you as an identity,
because our identity changes all the time as we go
through our life. Our soul doesn't, but our identity shifts
(49:38):
and changes and grows. So when we think of projection,
projection that other people put onto us, they're actually trapped
in their own identity and their own way of seeing things,
and they're just trying to put us into a part
in their play that we may or may not fit.
So we can't blame them for that. But what we
can do is go, oh wow, I just put my
(50:00):
myself in that part for that person for two years,
and now I've come out feeling a little bit of resentment. Okay,
I'd better forgive myself. I'd better forgive them, and I'll
move on And I won't I won't let myself fit
in that box next time. And I mean, I think
we all do it because, like you said, we learn
it in childhood. It's a survival strategy. So we're all
(50:20):
kind of undoing ourselves and reinventing ourselves as we go.
But I love that you the example you gave of
it through work. Isn't that so true of who we
are as humans every day? And us too, Like you know,
we have to catch ourselves in our own minds or
feelings when we get activated by a certain person or
(50:40):
a certain thing and it's like, oh, is this is
this pure in me? Or is this coming from some
kind of wound or compensation. Yeah, that's been another interesting
just for me personally, just kind of keeping my eye
very closely on all of that. The last few years.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
I love the way that you said that our identity
is always changing, but our soul isn't. Like that's incredibly
powerful and just the visualization of that of like that
deeper core, right, Like that is the constant, that is
the oven that's always on. But we do get the
opportunity to elevate in our identities and to constantly be
(51:16):
kind of reviewing what contracts we think we've signed with
who we are and how we need to present or be.
Speaker 4 (51:24):
Yeah, and as you say that, I just feel cool
to say something. You and I have spoken about some
of the very difficult relationships we've had in our past.
You know, relationships that we were in that weren't very
We weren't honoring ourselves by being in them because they
weren't honoring us, right, Yeah, And I think there is
(51:46):
something too recognizing that when we go down those paths
we're not making a mistake. We might come out of
them and go, oh my god, why did I do that? Well,
we did it to learn, Like we if we stay
in something that we then reflect was either damaging or
difficult for us, we will we will really remember that
(52:08):
lesson Sure, we may repeat it in more subtle ways
a few times just to kind of really test our discernment.
But the soul is the essence of who we are.
And let's say one of your lessons or my lessons
was to come in and learn about discernment. Well, guess
how we're going to learn discernment.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Sadly, Master Clare.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
Yeah, we are not going to just be like, oh,
I can see you know, We're gonna no matter how
intuitive you are, your human lessons are your human lessons,
And we all have blind spots for reasons, because those
are areas that we're supposed to develop our seeing. So
like everyone else when in it, I don't always feel that,
you know. I'm like, oh, you know, I can have
the woe is me. I can have the I can
(52:51):
have the upset, I can have all those feelings and things.
But I think the difference for me now at this
age versus in my twenties, when I would have just
been fully immersed in the tim hood or whatever I
was feeling at the time without as much awareness as
I'll have Now, I'm like, oh, okay, this is this
is a learning period.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
Ouch.
Speaker 4 (53:10):
I need to look I need to be as graceful
and kind to myself right now because I'm in a
learning period. Whereas if I go back to my twenties,
when I had a lot more self attack and a
lot more self judgment, and I think, really self hatred
was what was underneath some of that for me. When I,
you know, look back on it now in a way
I would never behave toward myself now, I go, oh,
(53:32):
I see, I had to walk into some of those things.
And so I say that because I think, especially in
spirituality or self growth culture, there can be this goal
of well I need to be ascended or I need
to be healed, and I'm like, well, life will, Life
will do that for us. But until we die, we
don't know what our healing is. Until we pass over.
(53:53):
Now we don't actually, well we don't, right, And even
in your deathbed, will you be able to look back?
And no, the game can continues like we are. We
are alive in the game right now and it's continuing.
So I think sometimes we have this perception that we
can judge ourselves, and we can't really and we shouldn't.
But equally, if you are recovering from something really difficult,
(54:16):
try not to judge yourself because that is not the
time that you want to be pointing the finger at
yourself as why did I get myself into this?
Speaker 3 (54:23):
No?
Speaker 4 (54:23):
No, no, let the wounds heal. This is the time
for the sling to do its work. This is not
the time to go. How did this happen to the shoulder?
Speaker 1 (54:31):
No?
Speaker 4 (54:31):
No, no, this happened to the shoulder for a reason.
And there's a learning and now we're recovering. And sorry
to use you.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
I'm a living example. Tell the people.
Speaker 3 (54:41):
So.
Speaker 4 (54:42):
Yeah, but that for me is the truth that I
that I couldn't embody in my twenties. I was too
hard on myself and too caught up in let's call
it self growth success culture, which doesn't even it's not
even a thing. But you know, the people who taught me,
that was kind of how they saw it at the time.
And I think that was more the culture twenty five
(55:03):
years ago.
Speaker 3 (55:04):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Oh my gosh, everything that you
just said was so powerful, so powerful and so important. Yeah,
And I think and that culture is still that culture
that you're talking about. It is alive and well in
course culture and all the people that are selling quote
unquote ascension based on monetary abundance, I think that's that's
(55:29):
how I perceive it and see it, but it is,
it's all those other layers. It is like all of
those all of those other layers that was really really powerful.
Your latest book, The Future Human is available absolutely everywhere Audible, Amazon,
Barnes and Noble, all the places. And your latest album,
(55:52):
though I do recommend that everyone kind of goes back
into the archives. Your latest album, Medicine Mantras Volume two,
just really in this last year. So I think that
is just the beautiful chance, an opportunity for people to
kind of begin their deep dive into your work and
into your community. As I close out every episode, I
(56:13):
love to share with everyone a little bit of soul work.
And so what that could be for you to the
audience is anything like a journal prompt, a thought starter,
a somatic practice, but something that those who are resonating
with this episode can use to integrate even deeper into
the things that we have been talking about.
Speaker 4 (56:35):
What I feel cool to do, and I do this
on my tour and every tour stop is to invite
everyone listening and watching to grab a pen and paper,
or if you prefer to type, pull up a document
on your screen or on your phone and write the sentence,
what does my soul want to tell me today? Question mark?
(56:59):
What does my soul want to tell me today? Question mark?
And then give yourself one, two, three, four, five minutes
to see what words come through for you And for
some of you, there may be no words. Sometimes people
don't get words, but most of the time people get words.
And it might be a sentence, it might.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
Be a paragraph.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
But it's a really powerful connect with the voice of
our higher self, our soul that everyone can do. And
that's something I like to share because I believe that
the reason channels channelers who do it publicly like I do,
I think the point of our existence is to spread
it through osmosis, not that everyone has to become a
(57:40):
channel the way that it looks like I'm doing it publicly,
but for our lives, it's so powerful to just connect
with your soul, your higher self, your guides, and it's
something all of us can do. So what does my
soul want to tell me today? And give yourself two
three minutes to let the answer come.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
I love that. I love that. I love that, And
do it again and again and again.
Speaker 4 (58:06):
You can do it every day, and then you can
start asking other questions. So when I channel for myself
and I do it on my iPhone, because I you know,
it's usually with me, I use the notes app, I
write the date at the top, and I'll normally have
a few questions. There might be some things going on
in my life I want to ask about, or things
in the world, but I'll always start with the question
(58:26):
how am I doing? Question mark? How am I doing?
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Question mark?
Speaker 4 (58:32):
And that gives them an opportunity to tell me something
that I'm not going fishing for, you know, or that
I haven't got my eye on. And so I get
initially this frave of oh oh interesting, or to see
things differently, and then I'll ask my questions. So you
could be as simple as how am I doing? But
the reason for people who've never done it before, I
use a sentence like what does my soul want to
(58:54):
tell me today? Is it bypasses the idea you have
to meet your guides. Not everyone's going to meet their guides.
I didn't go looking for them. It just happened to me.
But your guides aren't the only useful source of information.
Your own wisdom is the wisdom of your friends and
loved ones. Is the wisdom of nature, the wisdom of animals,
and the wisdom of our own higher self and soul
(59:15):
connection which we all have and can access.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
That is so good. Y'all have fun with that. Start
to see what happens in your life after you bring
this powerful activity in. Yeah, thank you. That might be
my favorite soul work we've had on this show. Thank
you very much for that.
Speaker 3 (59:42):
Scroll down in the show notes of this episode if
you're listening on Apple or Spotify or YouTube, and you
will see links on all the ways to get connected
to Lead. There'll be a connection a link to his website,
to his Instagram, to his tour, and of course to
the latest book that is available absolutely everywhere, The Future
(01:00:05):
Human with the amazing Miss Meredith, with the amazing Regina Meredith, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere.
Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
Lee, Thank you so much, Thank you my friend. Delightful
to be with you always.
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Catch everyone next episode.
Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Please, if you get an opportunity, take a second and
go on Apple or go on YouTube and leave a
comment or leave a five star review with some words
connected to them. I would appreciate that. Thank you for listening.
Big love now Misdayday. The content presented on deeply Well
(01:00:46):
serves solely for educational and informational purposes. It should not
be considered a replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance,
and does not constitute a provider patient relationship. As always,
it is advisable to consult with your healthcare provider or
health team for any specific concerns or questions that you
(01:01:07):
may have. Connect with me on social at Debbie Brown.
That's Twitter and Instagram, or you can go to my
website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening to
the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget, Please rate, review,
and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Deeply
Well is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network.
(01:01:29):
It's produced by Jacqueis Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and me Debbie Brown.
The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard That's by Jarrelen Glass from
Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Devi Brown
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