May 18, 2022 • 42 mins
Journalists on Ervil’s trail hear about an imminent murder in Utah and alert the cops. They arrive too late but decide to team up in the hunt for Ervil. As the press investigate, the astonishing scale of his crimes are revealed – but, as new murders come to light, the journalists become targets of Ervil and his deadly cult. Meanwhile, the cops start to identify suspects, though without an informant they’re yet to make any arrests. As the summer of 1977 passes, the police are about to be given an eye-opening inside account of Ervil LeBaron’s cult.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Novel. A listener note this episode contains violence and content
that some listeners might find distressing. Previously, on deliver Us
from Herbal, Hervill thought that if he got rid of Joel,
(00:29):
he could just move in and take leadership with Joel's people. Well,
it didn't work. That's the problem. The prophecy said this,
bigs of a lake will run in blood after they've
heard my message. That's when the Labarns showed up and
things got pretty rough. After that, there was a string
of threats that if he didn't repent and follow the
(00:50):
true prophet, he was going to die. Herbal was their leader.
They thought they were going to go out and save
the world. I called my mother. She said, honey, here
Daddy's spin shop. And I said he is a dad
and she said, yes, She's ted. As long as I
(01:16):
can remember, I've wanted to be a writer, to tell
stories of other people's lives, to take readers on a
journey into a world they might otherwise never visit. My
mom even has this photo of me as a baby
holding a pencil ready to write. I grew up sixty
(01:37):
miles south of Reno, Nevada, near the Carson River. At
the end of what's called the forty mile Desert. When
I was little, my mom and I we'd go into
town to buy these big rolls of newsprint, and so
while my brothers were outside catching lizards under stage brush,
I was inside making my own newspapers from articles cut
(01:58):
out of magazines. It helped me connect with the outside world,
which seemed distant, busy, chaotic, fascinating. And when I look back,
many of the stories I was drawn to early in
my career without even realizing, were stories where I was
trying to do something for myself to figure out my
(02:21):
place in Mormonism and the place of faith in the
broader world. I guess I'm still trying to figure that out.
It's one reason I'm doing this podcast. Journalism and faith
can be fundamentally at odds, because journalism, when done right,
is a search for truth no matter where it leads you.
(02:41):
And in my case, reporting on stories like this one,
it led me further away from my faith, away from Mormonism.
Now that's not the case for everyone. In fact, for
some journalists I've met, their faith inspires them. It's the
animating force and the work they do. It was good,
(03:03):
said Jester Jesse j these days. Journalist del van Ada
lives in a big colonial style house in the suburbs
of Washington, d C. Home. Dale has had quite the
career as a journalist, most of it at the Washington Post.
He broke the Iran Contra scandal back in the eighties.
(03:23):
He's interviewed six presidents. He was nominated for the Pulzer
Prize five times. I got some stuff you might be interested.
You want to see. Yeah, it's a bright day in September.
Dale takes me away down into his basement to see
some mementos from that career, taking millions of readers on
journeys into worlds they otherwise might never visit. That dream
(03:47):
I had as a kid. This is the Internet with Reagan,
and he begged me not to run the story. He
shows me souvenirs from war reporting constant gunfire the whole
time you're there, because contraband, from trips to the Middle East. Yes,
Sir a Fat gave me a live cluster bomb. I'm
presuming he didn't know what it was, and I brought
it back to the US. A picture of him headed
(04:07):
to the South Pole from Alaska. That's what they used
for clubs. That's the lowest penis bone. Yeah, that's a
lot to carry around. And then right at the back,
behind some boxes, a framed poster behind glass of a
movie star picture, the unlikely spark that started it all.
(04:27):
I had early decided that writing was a good thing
because I wrote to the up and coming star Olivia Hussey.
She said that was the most beautiful letter she had
ever gotten, and uh, we dated. So I thought, you know,
I wasn't that great looking a guy, And I thought, well,
at writing him, bring me someone like her. This is
a good thing to do. So I became editor of
(04:49):
my high school. When Dale says he isn't a great
looking guy, what he's saying is he's short. He's a hobbit,
like a modern day Bilbo back in. He's got an
impish grin. His eyes twinkle with the same delight or mischief,
like a guy about to go on a grand adventure
(05:09):
in Spain. You immediately like him. Trust him, let your
guard down, and spill your secrets all right now you
can strike the set. I was speak no more forever.
From the start, Dell got his kicks, challenging the powers
that be. That was his mission. It's what makes him
(05:32):
such a great reporter, but when it came to irvill
Le Baron, it's also what nearly got him killed. Dale's
career started out in the same place mind did, both Mormons,
both studying journalism at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah.
(05:53):
I remember walking into that campus paper news room. It
was humming with energy and intensity. It felt so important, momentous.
By nineteen seventy seven, Dell was working at the Desiret News,
one of two Salt Lake City dailies. That's actually where
I worked today. Back then, the newsroom looked like your
(06:15):
classic TV set newsroom, open plan, reporters with rolled up sleeves,
hunched over typewriters, editors yelling across the room about a
blown deadline, the police scanner beeping and squawking. In the
spring of seventy seven, Dale was a young reporter. He
had just been appointed to lead a new investigative team,
(06:38):
and his life was about to change forever. It started
with a man from his local ward that's what Mormons
call a parish. He approached Dale at his home with
a tip. He had lost his wife and his daughter
to polygamy. Somebody had converted them and they disappeared, and
he was trying to find him, sort of like the
experienced Glenchion off Hat when the Lebarons turned his life
(07:01):
upside down and took his family away to Mexico, Only
this guy didn't even know where his family had gone.
He was trying to track them down. Maybe Dale could
help him. And then he told me about a group
of Polygamus that were in town to kill someone. And
(07:22):
he told me about Evil LeBaron. It was May eight
ninety seven, and I went the next day to my
managing editor and said, I know we've ignored these Polygamus
groups for years, and I understand. You know where a
church own newspaper, The Mormon Church owns the Desert News,
and back then it didn't cover any of the Polygamus groups.
(07:45):
Why would the church want its paper to bring any
attention to an aspect of its past polygamy. They'd rather
people forget. And I said, can I start on this?
He said why? I said, Well, if they've turned violence,
if one group has turned violence, we need to kind
of clean up our own offshoot house. Offshoot house an
interesting way of putting it. These groups have the same roots,
(08:08):
same beliefs, same scriptures, as mainstream Mormons. So if they're
out causing mayhem, it's on us to expose it to
clean it up. I said, we need to be leading
the charge, and he agreed, but Dale was unaware how
quickly the clock was ticking. The next day was May nine.
(08:32):
Dale called his sources inside the Salt Lake Police Department,
the Labyns. Have you heard of them? I think one
of them is in Utah right now planning to kill someone.
The police said, we'll look into it, but by May
t the clock had already counted down. Borrio City Police
(08:58):
and I'd say they have no lead. Jept on who
the two women were who entered the office of Polegamus
leader of ruland Alread yesterday and shot him dead. Among
the suspects of those who planned the possible assassination are
leaders of two riot polegamus groups from the Team's at
(09:23):
Novel and I Heart Radio. This is deliver Us from Herville.
I'm Jesse Hyde, Chapter four The Hunt. Tuesday May seven
(09:46):
was the day rienich Naz shot dead Ruling Alread on
the orders of irvil LeBaron and del Van Adda heard
the fallout in real time. He was in the newsroom
the police scanner which I was monitoring, said a nature
path in Salt Lake had been killed by two young women,
(10:07):
shot several times and murray a suburb of Salt Lake.
Dale instantly connected the dots. This was the murder he'd
been warned all about. And what Dale felt in that moment,
all right, I'm gonna be honest. I was elated. I
was excited. I thought, Holy cow, have I got a
(10:28):
scoop on this? Dale had a scoop because what he
could hear monitoring the police scanner was that the police
were jumping on the wrong leads. The initial read by
the police was that it was a drug heist gone bad,
But Dal knew that Rulin Alred was a homeopathic doctor
(10:48):
who only used natural remedies, and he wasn't just any
homeopathic doctor either. Basically, the Alreds were the largest, potentially
most lucrative of all the polygamists subgroups. In other words,
for a certain predator, potentially a very desirable target, a
(11:09):
predator like the one he just spent the previous forty
hours looking into. Because ever since Dale had received that
tip from that man in his ward, he'd been learning
as much as he could about hervil Le Baron. Everything
he was hearing about the murder in Salt Lake was
starting to make sense in a way that both horrified
(11:31):
and energized him. I went into the managing editor again.
I said, I think this is Erville. I think this
is what I was told two days ago. So I
need to start pursuing that the police will come around soon.
If it was him. For del this was one of
those rare moments where life kind of feels like a movie.
(11:51):
This is the turning point for me, This is the
come to Jesus moment. This is when I knew I
was going to be a crusader. It might sound like
hyperbole or a bit grandiose, but the story unfolding in
front of Dale was a kind of coming together of
the two central strands of his life into one singular mission.
(12:15):
I was combating bad forces, whether religious or otherwise, and
turning the rock over and bringing sunlight to bear. Dale,
who had converted to Mormonism as a teenager, really believed
deeply in its doctrines. He now understood that his scoop
was in fact a murder that twisted his faith into
(12:38):
something unrecognizable, something monstrous. Herville was not so much an
offshoot of the Latter Day Saint Church. Even though he
used some of the scriptures, he was really saw himself
as Moses. He was really old Testament. It sent chills
up and down my spine. What Dale did next it
(12:59):
was conventional, especially for a journalist sitting on the cusp
of a huge story. He went and shared what he
knew with the cops, well one cop in particular, one
great detective named Dick Forbes, who has died. Um, I'm
pretty sure he died. We were sharing information confidentially for
(13:22):
quite some time. You'll hear a lot about Dick in
this series because at this point in time, Dick Forbes
had also started to investigate Herville had become equally concerned
by what he was learning. So Dale met with Dick
and proposed an unusual partnership. I made it clear to
Dick when we sat down, Look, I need your help.
(13:46):
I'm looking for a partnership. I will never embarrass you,
I will never betray you. I think we can do
this together and without over dramatizing it, we are in
a fight against evil. Dal didn't stop there. He had
an even more unusual request for the cop. Dick was
(14:06):
going to have to start going to church again. Dick
was in an active member of the church because he
couldn't kick his habit of smoking and didn't feel he's
worthy to attend. Smoking is forbidden in the Mormon church.
I said, forget that, go back to church. You're gonna
need help, and the police force is not enough on this.
This wasn't some moral scolding. Dal was saying that if
(14:29):
the police wanted to use Dale sources within the fundamentalist community,
they needed to be able to talk their language, their
terminology of doctrine and scriptures. I said, from the beginning,
the only way you're going to get Herville is to
break someone substantial in his group. Things are going to
(14:52):
have to happen that other cops might say are serendipity
or luck. But as a Latter day Saint, you know,
if you're looking for help, you need to be right
latter day saint. That's what mainstream Mormons prefer to be called.
And the only way you're gonna do that is to
be knowledge about the scriptures. If you're just a regular
(15:14):
cop and you can't discuss d n C. Eighty five
with him smartly, you're gonna lose out he's gonna just
think you're ignorant. D n C. Eighty five or Doctrine
and Covenants eighty five is the Mormon scripture fundamentalists say
predicts the coming of the One mighty and strong. I
brought the scriptures with me. Any other cop would say,
(15:36):
forget the scriptures and everything else, Just tell me how
does he do the murders, and who does he know
and everything. But he listened to me and he agreed.
Dale and Dick both saw him. This was how to
get to Herville. You get inside his colt flip informants,
equal smoking. That's how committed he was as a cop.
(15:58):
He really believed that he was a difference than he was.
He was a great detective, but now he incorporated this
religious aspect because he knew that was what it was
going to take to bring Herville down and some of
his followers, the ones that actually did the murders. So
while Dick Forbes headed back to Church, Dale set off
(16:18):
to get the inside scoop on just what Herville had
been up to all these years. After all, his day
job wasn't to stop Herville. He needed to break news,
and to do that he was headed to Mexico. Maybe
he could hear it all from the horse's mouth. Dell
set out to meet Herbale face to face. That's coming
(16:40):
up after the break. As del van Ada began investigating
the murder of Ruling Alread in May of nineteen seventy seven,
he had no idea who had pulled the trigger or
even who Riena Chinov was, but he felt sure Irvill
(17:02):
LeBaron was behind it all. Dale began swapping information with
Detective Dick Forbes, and that certainty only grew. I started
calling down to Mexico and reached Erville's youngest brother, who
had taken over the church. I think it was Thursday night,
the day before the Alred funeral. Dale had reached Virlin LeBaron,
(17:25):
Joel and Rville's younger brother, just before he made his
trip up to Utah in what Erville had hoped would
be Verrlin's last day and earth the day before his
planned ambush. He did not know at the time that
the purpose of killing Roland already was so Erville could
kill him so he would know he would be at
the funeral. Verlin told Dale the story of Colonial LeBaron,
(17:48):
about Rville killing his own brother, Joel I said, I've
never heard of any of these. They said, no one has.
No one was interested before, but now perhaps with this
murder and salt leg a very unique odd they will.
And then he told me about this raid that was
made by Herville's people, just horrendous to me. And I'm
(18:08):
Baja California, village named Los Milinos. The massacre, the fire bombing,
the shootings, the murder of two innocent young men. I thought,
I gotta get this guy. And I went into the
other and said, I'm off on this. The team can
do the rest of it. And I became so committed.
(18:32):
Dale started to learn other things about Herbl's Colts, the
identities of some of Herville's inner circle, and he started
to hear whispers about the Colts movement in the years
following the Los Milinos massacre. We're talking between n and
seventy seven here, a period where the Colt had been
moving across America, living and hiding house to house, town
(18:57):
to town, and in between. Well, quite a few people
who came into the orbit of the Colt had gone missing.
Perhaps the most shocking, stomach turning of all the stories
Dyl heard was about a woman named Becky Becky was
(19:19):
Irvil's daughter, one of thirteen children born to his first wife, Delfina.
Becky had inherited Ervil's gift of visions, saw things, heard things,
blurted out things you shouldn't say. But the colt did
not see her as a prophet. They saw her as
a loose cannon. Dale began to hear rumors about just
(19:40):
what had happened to Becky. Anyone who opposed him deserved
to die, including a daughter. It was just a question
how many people he could order be killed that there was.
There was really gonna be no stopping him. Dale knew
Becky had been married off to another one of Rvil's
inner circle, Victor money mansion Off Hervill's minister of finance.
(20:02):
He was Glenchonov's younger brother who you heard from an
episode three, an older brother of Rina Channath. All part
of that interlacing of blood ties that bound Evil's crime family. Anyway,
Victionof was also a person of interest to the police
at this point, but not just because of Becky's disappearance.
(20:22):
It was because the polygamous other wife, who was called Nancy,
had been picked up by the cops for information on
the ruling all red murder. So Dyll called up viction
AV the money man, understand, said your wife was in town. Wow,
(20:46):
this thing was happening. Dale keeps the questions simple. Ask
the sort of things a reporter asked a KG source.
Just keep the conversation going, keep them from hanging up.
You have seen and known Herbal Aparonetic in the course
of your life. What was he like? Not here like
(21:09):
everybody think good my opinion, really, but I did everybody
think he is bouts everything? That's Vic defending Herbal saying
he isn't all blood and guts. One was the last
time you know where he is? I have no idea
(21:30):
where he work for him? Dale keeps reeling him in.
I think that there was a fundamentalist that said that
for some reason, information that he was suppuying money to
his church, the Lamb of God. Really did you ever
belong to his church? Vic says he has nothing to
do with Hervil's church. Dale knows he's lying. I'm not
(21:52):
trying to be a basic or not ever Religi. That's
not that religious a person. Vic lying again, but then
he reverts to a trick the le barons would use
over and over with the police in there many many
interactions with them in the years to come. Vic kind
(22:12):
of turned the table. He started to gently mind Dale
for information. What did he know about the investigation into
the colt I have a word for I'm not sure perfect.
I couldn't can't understand how they all had came up
with a warrant for you to win. Dale tried to
change the conversation. Light in the mood. Remember him saying
(22:34):
anything funny or something funny, may runners have a lot
of wit. I wanted a lot of wit, like the
brother who was building spaceships. After circling around and around,
Dale sensed his time with Vic was drawing to a close,
(22:57):
so he went in hard. What he really wanted to
know that you ever been a believe? Everybody knows, Vic says.
Everyone knows he has two wives, but now he only
has one, which led Dell to wonder, where's Eervil's daughter?
(23:18):
Your other wife, Becky. No, she isn't deceased, he says,
just divorced. Vic is clearly becoming rattled by Dale's questioning
and by how much Dale knows. I don't want to
have anything about her. I didn't care about my wife,
(23:39):
and I a pride forever Dale had heard enough. Dale
is a meticulously organized reporter. I've seen the boxes of
notes and materials he assembled on the labyrins. He'd use
(24:01):
index cards to track leads, put them in a little
cardboard box he tied with a shoe string, and the
leads kept piling up, the way they do in cop shows.
Next up, Dale called Dan Jordan's, the one time French
missionary who had killed Joela Baron at Derville's bidding and
who wrote some of Herville's most incendiary propaganda. Dale tracked
(24:24):
down Dan's number and began probing him for information prior
to the over and we're years ago when apparently you
offered some pamphlets with her in the van. But Dan
was no fool. Uh, let me see this. I would
like to make his statement later on, but I would
(24:44):
rather not make a statement or have any comment at
this time because of the obvious appications expective in case
I will be making a statement at some future time
or the assigned to another words, no comment. But Dale
(25:07):
was now circling his main target, Herbal, getting closer and closer,
and as he did, his reporting was finding a wider audience.
The National press was now publishing his stories, but he
still needed to get to the one man at the
center of it all. I needed an interview able, and
(25:30):
I even wrote a piece for Time magazine because they
started to get interested, and a lot of others started
to get interested. And knowing that an interview with herble
was very important and it might be a reasonable ask
considering the number of murders that had been committed by
this time, when that was a dangerous thing to do,
(25:51):
my instinct was no. I felt he was a coward
and he never did anything himself. He always had other
people do it, and he would never act precipitously. If
I was interviewing him, it wouldn't happen there. I could
worry about it later. But there was no way Dale's
editors were going to send him down to Mexico. We're
talking about some serious expense. They did not have a
(26:14):
vision of what this story would be. So I spent
my own money. My wife and I had two thousand
dollars in the savings, and she agreed to let me
use it all. We hired a pilot, brought his two sons,
who were ex missionaries, spoke Spanish. First stop was the
Chihuahua Desert. I went down Colonial LeBaron first. When I
(26:40):
talked to his mother and his sister Esther, who was
kind of the family historian. I remember having a lot
of discussions of lygamy and how do these other wives
put up with it? And Virlin said to me, it's easier.
They don't expect as much. When Dale arrived in Colonial LeBaron,
five years had passed since Herville had killed his brother Joel.
(27:04):
But if he had expected the whole town to hate Herville,
Dale was in for a surprise. I was struck by
how they were still defending Herville even though he had
killed their most beloved brother and son, Joel. Dale was
experiencing those same emotions I had seen in Joel's son
(27:24):
Adrian and his wife Delhi on the hills over Los Melinos.
These split loyalties of the people who had once seen
Herville as family, and we're now watching on in confused terror.
As his cult grew as he carried out more and
more extreme acts. But then he got a break. A
(27:46):
possible location for Herville south of Mexico City, had an
address and everything I went there, he wasn't home. Dale
had arrived moments too late. It was where he was staying.
Several of the neighbors said he left a couple hours ago.
Dale left Mexico without the interview he wanted, but his
(28:09):
notebook was now overflowing with new leads. Any picture was
starting to emerge in the jigsaw puzzle of Herville in
his cult. It was a terrifying portrait of a cult
leader who seemed to have a genuine hold on his followers.
He was the patriarch, he was the boss. He was
an inveterate ladies man, and for some reason, women were
(28:33):
really attracted to him and he could charm them. Irene,
his sister in law, describe first seeing Herville at the time.
They're all poor and would have overalls with one rope
on one side going to the other side, and barefoot,
and she said he had a split in his crotch
which had never been repaired, and he didn't wear underwear.
So you saw all of Herville. And yet she still
(28:56):
said after that he was very handsome, and I still
found myself attractive. Plus he would you know, it's almost poetic.
If he starts talking visions and revelations, it's a manna
for those that are feeling persecuted, isolated. That here's someone
with a real vision. So he was trying to marry everyone.
(29:17):
And of course it wasn't just wives that he was
recruiting his disciples. He found vulnerable people who secretly wanted
to be loved, part of a community, and wanted to
amount to something which no one told any of them
before they would ever do. People searching for significance and
(29:38):
meaning in their lives. These were the recruits whose identities devils.
Uncovering people like Lloyd and Don Sullivan. He found people
who perceived themselves as failures and gave them a sense
of mission, even though it came to killing eventually, all
part of the same mission. As for Herville. Somewhere along
(30:05):
the line, Deal concluded his thirst for power for adoration
had consumed him, sent him down paths of wickedness, violence,
and murder. He was a man who craved power and
was very lustful. So how do you get power? How
do you sleep with as many women as you can?
(30:27):
I mean plaguing me appeal to him because all he
had to do is marry them and some whatever ceremony,
maybe maybe not take care of them. That wasn't a
big issue with him. He was driven by the need
to be adored, revered, loved by men and women. As
(30:52):
the summer of seventies went on, the stories of murders
and disappearances attributed to Herville and his followers continued to
come across Dale's desk. There was the disappearance of Robert Simon's,
a rival prophet. He disappeared after a game of pool
with some of the cult. In seventy That same year,
Noah Meserate, the plural wife of Bud Shannath. She had
(31:16):
vanished without a trace after a car journey through the
San Pedro Mountains with two of Herbal's wives. One of
those wives, she was called Vonda White, was linked to
the death of another of Herbal's group, a former army
vat who was instrumental in planning the Los Milinos attack,
A giant of a man named Dean vest He'd been
(31:38):
shot to death in seventy five in a house he
shared with Vonda White and some other cult followers. Dale wondered,
could all these killings really be Hervil's crime family. Um,
I'm curious as a young reporter what that felt like.
I would imagine it's exhilarating, but also a little scary.
(32:01):
I mean, were you scared at all? Did you recognize
the danger of what you were doing? No, I would
call it youthful ignorance, which followed me for quite some
time in my career. Now I'm kind of appalled of
the things I did without thinking of the consequences, especially
to my wife and kids. I can see why he'd
filled that way, because his investigation hadn't gone unnoticed by
(32:23):
the colt. Erville had early on identified me as a
major enemy. He knew he got word from a number
of people. It wasn't just the desert needs of the
stories he was getting there, but Time magazine, of course,
been Time was one of the biggest magazines in America
back then, and as the story was getting out, Erville
was angry and so at his orders, Disciple Lloyd Sullivan
(32:48):
was dispatched to pay del Van at his family a visit.
He had gone out to my house and was supposed
to murder me, so, as it turned out in retrospect,
I wasn't. Lloyd brought his son Don Sullivan along too.
They waited for hours, but Dale didn't come home. He
(33:09):
was in the newsroom working late. Again. He wouldn't find
out for a few years just how close he had
come to being another one of Hervill's victims. It was
only after the fact that I realized how dangerous it
may have been. But for me, how do I put
it and still sound humble? Don't worry about humble. The
(33:34):
mission was greater than the danger. It was a crusade.
This was an evil man, somebody I felt needed all
my energy to bring the task because no one had
done it before. But del van Ada wasn't the only
journalist beating a path to Hervil's dorm. That's coming up
(34:00):
after the break? Are we rolling? Then? Should we go?
Because they can edit. This is Lynn Packer. He's a
legendary investigative reporter in Utah, a contemporary of journalist Dale
van Ada, kind of his TV equivalent. I actually prefer
(34:21):
the old television method when we're looking at each other
like Dell. Also a member of the Mormon Church, went
to the same Mormon university as Dell, but he'd actually
heard of the Labyns way before Dale had when I
was on my LDS mission, and for missionaries it was
(34:44):
synonymous with Satan, with the devil, that the devil had
somehow influenced these missionaries to adopt the doctrine of polygamy.
For years. After this, Lynn put the Libyans out of
his mind, moved back to Salt Lake got a job
at Cassel, an NBC affiliate. He was making his name
(35:08):
in TV news when a decade later, back in Salt
Lake City, someone gave him a tip about a story.
A local radio host was building a sort of unusual
enterprise at his home, a flying saucer factory. I said,
a flying saucer factory. Yeah, he said. This flying saucer
(35:29):
company had an illustration of the flying saucer, and he
told me. But it was incorporated by Ross le Baron,
And so I went there and met Ross le Baron
for the first time. It was a small, really old
house in Salt Lake County, certainly in sort of a
rundown area. He was happy to see me. He wanted
(35:50):
the publicity. He took me to the backyard where he
was running flying saucer tests, and he said, of course
this is just a model. The big one will be
much bigger because it has to fly to another location
to pick up Jesus, to fly Jesus back to the Earth.
(36:12):
Because the Bible, the scriptures say that's how he's going
to return, and it's up to us to develop the
flying Saucer so that he can return to the Earth
for the last days. Lynn cut the TV package, a
quirky novelty piece the sort, right before the anchors tossed
it to sports with a little knowing chuckle, but no
(36:34):
one was laughing by the time. Lynn was next on
air to talk about the Labarrens. Tonight, Linn Backer and
Dwayne Cardill a grimpse at Irvil Labarren's former territory near Ensenada, Mexico.
This frightening cult leader now on dimensioned by Good Evening
(36:56):
the notorious evil. By the time of the nineteen seven
seven All Read murder, Lynn was the station's lead investigative reporter,
and after that killing, he'd also set off to Mexico
to do some digging into Herval in his colt, But
like Dale, he arrived too late to speak to hervill
that is, Instead, he had to settle for an interview
(37:17):
with a fellow reporter, someone who had managed to get
in a room with the elusive cult leader. Lauren Becklund
is a reporter for the Los Angeles Times and the
only journalist we've heard about who's interviewed Irvilla Baron. The
interview took place in August six. He was a very
large figure. We were sitting in a really hot and
(37:37):
Sonata jail cell and the whole room smelled like onions,
just tremendously onions. And I preserve a La Baron. I
think he's just eaten a lot. And he was just
spreading profusely, just more than I've ever seen anybody perspire
in my whole life. And as he spoke, it was
with hesitation at first, because I don't think he wanted
(38:00):
to talk to me, but later it was as if
he were trying to convince me. He was speaking like
a preacher, for his strong voice, a figure that seemed
to be larger than his physical presence. Lynn and his
TV news colleagues continued their reporting. They heard the same
rumors as del van Ada about some of the disappearances
(38:24):
linked to Ervil's disciples. Robert Simon's, who had been seen
earlier with rvil LeBaron, disappeared leaving his home with one
of LeBaron's followers. Like that rival prophet Robert Simons. Our
information is that he was last seeing what the disciple
of the Church of the Lamb of God. Neither this
disciple or Mr Simon's has been seen since and the
(38:46):
giant Dean Best. Add to that incident, another which occurred
last year in San Diego. Then a man named Dean
Best was murdered two women or suspects. Best had been
a follower of ervial LeBaron. That case, like the Simon's disappearance,
remains unsolved. As the summer of seventy seven, past journalists
(39:15):
like Dale and Lynn continued to bring Ervilla A Baron
to a national audience. The press had given hervila nickname,
the Mormon Manson. He had that kind of notoriety with
the public now. But despite all this, rvil Abarn's cultive
around one followers remained intact. Well that's how it might
(39:36):
have appeared from the outside anyway. But while Dale and
Lynne had been investigating, the cops, led by Detective Dick Forbes,
were building their own momentum, gathering evidence, identifying concrete suspects
for the killings of Ruling all Read, rival prophet Robert Simons,
and Dean vest And now the police were about to
(39:57):
make a major breakthrough, something they've been after from the
very start. Of their investigation. They were about to flip
someone from within the cult. Arrests at the heart of
hervil Abaran's colts were about to begin. Let's start with
your great on Morino December twenty six, Nan Devini four
(40:20):
and the event sent that after that, What did your
recollection of the strategy and the planning that went into
that about the actual way of itself? Someone who was
about to blow the whole hervil Abaron case wide open
for more of watches darn Man upstairs. That's the most
important thing to nominators person that's coming up in the
(40:43):
next episode of deliver Us from hervill deliver Us from
Herbale is hosted by me jesse Hyde and written and
reported by me Leona Hamad and David Waters. Production from
(41:04):
Leona Hamid and David Waters. Sean Glenn and Max O'Brien
are executive producers. Lena Chang and Megan Oyinka are researchers.
Marianna Gongora is our field producer. Fact checking by Donya
Suleman and Sona Avakian. Production management from Sharie Houston, Frankie Taylor,
(41:24):
and Charlotte Wolf. Austin Mitchell is our creative Director of Production.
Michae Lee Row is our managing editor. Gavin Haynes is
our head of Development. Willard Foxton is our creative director
of Development. Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander
and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Nicholas Alexander and David Waters.
(41:48):
Our music is composed by Julian Lynch. Special thanks to
Scott Anderson, Scott Carrier, Del van Ada, Pippa Smith, Saskia Edwards,
Matt O'Mara, Katrina nor l and Beth and Macheluso, or
In Rosenbaum, Shelby Shankman and all the team. A U
T A. For more from novel, visit novel dot Audio
Novel. A listener note this episode contains violence and content
that some listeners might find distressing. Previously, on deliver Us
from Herbal, Hervill thought that if he got rid of Joel,
(00:29):
he could just move in and take leadership with Joel's people. Well,
it didn't work. That's the problem. The prophecy said this,
bigs of a lake will run in blood after they've
heard my message. That's when the Labarns showed up and
things got pretty rough. After that, there was a string
of threats that if he didn't repent and follow the
(00:50):
true prophet, he was going to die. Herbal was their leader.
They thought they were going to go out and save
the world. I called my mother. She said, honey, here
Daddy's spin shop. And I said he is a dad
and she said, yes, She's ted. As long as I
(01:16):
can remember, I've wanted to be a writer, to tell
stories of other people's lives, to take readers on a
journey into a world they might otherwise never visit. My
mom even has this photo of me as a baby
holding a pencil ready to write. I grew up sixty
(01:37):
miles south of Reno, Nevada, near the Carson River. At
the end of what's called the forty mile Desert. When
I was little, my mom and I we'd go into
town to buy these big rolls of newsprint, and so
while my brothers were outside catching lizards under stage brush,
I was inside making my own newspapers from articles cut
(01:58):
out of magazines. It helped me connect with the outside world,
which seemed distant, busy, chaotic, fascinating. And when I look back,
many of the stories I was drawn to early in
my career without even realizing, were stories where I was
trying to do something for myself to figure out my
(02:21):
place in Mormonism and the place of faith in the
broader world. I guess I'm still trying to figure that out.
It's one reason I'm doing this podcast. Journalism and faith
can be fundamentally at odds, because journalism, when done right,
is a search for truth no matter where it leads you.
(02:41):
And in my case, reporting on stories like this one,
it led me further away from my faith, away from Mormonism.
Now that's not the case for everyone. In fact, for
some journalists I've met, their faith inspires them. It's the
animating force and the work they do. It was good,
(03:03):
said Jester Jesse j these days. Journalist del van Ada
lives in a big colonial style house in the suburbs
of Washington, d C. Home. Dale has had quite the
career as a journalist, most of it at the Washington Post.
He broke the Iran Contra scandal back in the eighties.
(03:23):
He's interviewed six presidents. He was nominated for the Pulzer
Prize five times. I got some stuff you might be interested.
You want to see. Yeah, it's a bright day in September.
Dale takes me away down into his basement to see
some mementos from that career, taking millions of readers on
journeys into worlds they otherwise might never visit. That dream
(03:47):
I had as a kid. This is the Internet with Reagan,
and he begged me not to run the story. He
shows me souvenirs from war reporting constant gunfire the whole
time you're there, because contraband, from trips to the Middle East. Yes,
Sir a Fat gave me a live cluster bomb. I'm
presuming he didn't know what it was, and I brought
it back to the US. A picture of him headed
(04:07):
to the South Pole from Alaska. That's what they used
for clubs. That's the lowest penis bone. Yeah, that's a
lot to carry around. And then right at the back,
behind some boxes, a framed poster behind glass of a
movie star picture, the unlikely spark that started it all.
(04:27):
I had early decided that writing was a good thing
because I wrote to the up and coming star Olivia Hussey.
She said that was the most beautiful letter she had
ever gotten, and uh, we dated. So I thought, you know,
I wasn't that great looking a guy, And I thought, well,
at writing him, bring me someone like her. This is
a good thing to do. So I became editor of
(04:49):
my high school. When Dale says he isn't a great
looking guy, what he's saying is he's short. He's a hobbit,
like a modern day Bilbo back in. He's got an
impish grin. His eyes twinkle with the same delight or mischief,
like a guy about to go on a grand adventure
(05:09):
in Spain. You immediately like him. Trust him, let your
guard down, and spill your secrets all right now you
can strike the set. I was speak no more forever.
From the start, Dell got his kicks, challenging the powers
that be. That was his mission. It's what makes him
(05:32):
such a great reporter, but when it came to irvill
Le Baron, it's also what nearly got him killed. Dale's
career started out in the same place mind did, both Mormons,
both studying journalism at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah.
(05:53):
I remember walking into that campus paper news room. It
was humming with energy and intensity. It felt so important, momentous.
By nineteen seventy seven, Dell was working at the Desiret News,
one of two Salt Lake City dailies. That's actually where
I worked today. Back then, the newsroom looked like your
(06:15):
classic TV set newsroom, open plan, reporters with rolled up sleeves,
hunched over typewriters, editors yelling across the room about a
blown deadline, the police scanner beeping and squawking. In the
spring of seventy seven, Dale was a young reporter. He
had just been appointed to lead a new investigative team,
(06:38):
and his life was about to change forever. It started
with a man from his local ward that's what Mormons
call a parish. He approached Dale at his home with
a tip. He had lost his wife and his daughter
to polygamy. Somebody had converted them and they disappeared, and
he was trying to find him, sort of like the
experienced Glenchion off Hat when the Lebarons turned his life
(07:01):
upside down and took his family away to Mexico, Only
this guy didn't even know where his family had gone.
He was trying to track them down. Maybe Dale could
help him. And then he told me about a group
of Polygamus that were in town to kill someone. And
(07:22):
he told me about Evil LeBaron. It was May eight
ninety seven, and I went the next day to my
managing editor and said, I know we've ignored these Polygamus
groups for years, and I understand. You know where a
church own newspaper, The Mormon Church owns the Desert News,
and back then it didn't cover any of the Polygamus groups.
(07:45):
Why would the church want its paper to bring any
attention to an aspect of its past polygamy. They'd rather
people forget. And I said, can I start on this?
He said why? I said, Well, if they've turned violence,
if one group has turned violence, we need to kind
of clean up our own offshoot house. Offshoot house an
interesting way of putting it. These groups have the same roots,
(08:08):
same beliefs, same scriptures, as mainstream Mormons. So if they're
out causing mayhem, it's on us to expose it to
clean it up. I said, we need to be leading
the charge, and he agreed, but Dale was unaware how
quickly the clock was ticking. The next day was May nine.
(08:32):
Dale called his sources inside the Salt Lake Police Department,
the Labyns. Have you heard of them? I think one
of them is in Utah right now planning to kill someone.
The police said, we'll look into it, but by May
t the clock had already counted down. Borrio City Police
(08:58):
and I'd say they have no lead. Jept on who
the two women were who entered the office of Polegamus
leader of ruland Alread yesterday and shot him dead. Among
the suspects of those who planned the possible assassination are
leaders of two riot polegamus groups from the Team's at
(09:23):
Novel and I Heart Radio. This is deliver Us from Herville.
I'm Jesse Hyde, Chapter four The Hunt. Tuesday May seven
(09:46):
was the day rienich Naz shot dead Ruling Alread on
the orders of irvil LeBaron and del Van Adda heard
the fallout in real time. He was in the newsroom
the police scanner which I was monitoring, said a nature
path in Salt Lake had been killed by two young women,
(10:07):
shot several times and murray a suburb of Salt Lake.
Dale instantly connected the dots. This was the murder he'd
been warned all about. And what Dale felt in that moment,
all right, I'm gonna be honest. I was elated. I
was excited. I thought, Holy cow, have I got a
(10:28):
scoop on this? Dale had a scoop because what he
could hear monitoring the police scanner was that the police
were jumping on the wrong leads. The initial read by
the police was that it was a drug heist gone bad,
But Dal knew that Rulin Alred was a homeopathic doctor
(10:48):
who only used natural remedies, and he wasn't just any
homeopathic doctor either. Basically, the Alreds were the largest, potentially
most lucrative of all the polygamists subgroups. In other words,
for a certain predator, potentially a very desirable target, a
(11:09):
predator like the one he just spent the previous forty
hours looking into. Because ever since Dale had received that
tip from that man in his ward, he'd been learning
as much as he could about hervil Le Baron. Everything
he was hearing about the murder in Salt Lake was
starting to make sense in a way that both horrified
(11:31):
and energized him. I went into the managing editor again.
I said, I think this is Erville. I think this
is what I was told two days ago. So I
need to start pursuing that the police will come around soon.
If it was him. For del this was one of
those rare moments where life kind of feels like a movie.
(11:51):
This is the turning point for me, This is the
come to Jesus moment. This is when I knew I
was going to be a crusader. It might sound like
hyperbole or a bit grandiose, but the story unfolding in
front of Dale was a kind of coming together of
the two central strands of his life into one singular mission.
(12:15):
I was combating bad forces, whether religious or otherwise, and
turning the rock over and bringing sunlight to bear. Dale,
who had converted to Mormonism as a teenager, really believed
deeply in its doctrines. He now understood that his scoop
was in fact a murder that twisted his faith into
(12:38):
something unrecognizable, something monstrous. Herville was not so much an
offshoot of the Latter Day Saint Church. Even though he
used some of the scriptures, he was really saw himself
as Moses. He was really old Testament. It sent chills
up and down my spine. What Dale did next it
(12:59):
was conventional, especially for a journalist sitting on the cusp
of a huge story. He went and shared what he
knew with the cops, well one cop in particular, one
great detective named Dick Forbes, who has died. Um, I'm
pretty sure he died. We were sharing information confidentially for
(13:22):
quite some time. You'll hear a lot about Dick in
this series because at this point in time, Dick Forbes
had also started to investigate Herville had become equally concerned
by what he was learning. So Dale met with Dick
and proposed an unusual partnership. I made it clear to
Dick when we sat down, Look, I need your help.
(13:46):
I'm looking for a partnership. I will never embarrass you,
I will never betray you. I think we can do
this together and without over dramatizing it, we are in
a fight against evil. Dal didn't stop there. He had
an even more unusual request for the cop. Dick was
(14:06):
going to have to start going to church again. Dick
was in an active member of the church because he
couldn't kick his habit of smoking and didn't feel he's
worthy to attend. Smoking is forbidden in the Mormon church.
I said, forget that, go back to church. You're gonna
need help, and the police force is not enough on this.
This wasn't some moral scolding. Dal was saying that if
(14:29):
the police wanted to use Dale sources within the fundamentalist community,
they needed to be able to talk their language, their
terminology of doctrine and scriptures. I said, from the beginning,
the only way you're going to get Herville is to
break someone substantial in his group. Things are going to
(14:52):
have to happen that other cops might say are serendipity
or luck. But as a Latter day Saint, you know,
if you're looking for help, you need to be right
latter day saint. That's what mainstream Mormons prefer to be called.
And the only way you're gonna do that is to
be knowledge about the scriptures. If you're just a regular
(15:14):
cop and you can't discuss d n C. Eighty five
with him smartly, you're gonna lose out he's gonna just
think you're ignorant. D n C. Eighty five or Doctrine
and Covenants eighty five is the Mormon scripture fundamentalists say
predicts the coming of the One mighty and strong. I
brought the scriptures with me. Any other cop would say,
(15:36):
forget the scriptures and everything else, Just tell me how
does he do the murders, and who does he know
and everything. But he listened to me and he agreed.
Dale and Dick both saw him. This was how to
get to Herville. You get inside his colt flip informants,
equal smoking. That's how committed he was as a cop.
(15:58):
He really believed that he was a difference than he was.
He was a great detective, but now he incorporated this
religious aspect because he knew that was what it was
going to take to bring Herville down and some of
his followers, the ones that actually did the murders. So
while Dick Forbes headed back to Church, Dale set off
(16:18):
to get the inside scoop on just what Herville had
been up to all these years. After all, his day
job wasn't to stop Herville. He needed to break news,
and to do that he was headed to Mexico. Maybe
he could hear it all from the horse's mouth. Dell
set out to meet Herbale face to face. That's coming
(16:40):
up after the break. As del van Ada began investigating
the murder of Ruling Alread in May of nineteen seventy seven,
he had no idea who had pulled the trigger or
even who Riena Chinov was, but he felt sure Irvill
(17:02):
LeBaron was behind it all. Dale began swapping information with
Detective Dick Forbes, and that certainty only grew. I started
calling down to Mexico and reached Erville's youngest brother, who
had taken over the church. I think it was Thursday night,
the day before the Alred funeral. Dale had reached Virlin LeBaron,
(17:25):
Joel and Rville's younger brother, just before he made his
trip up to Utah in what Erville had hoped would
be Verrlin's last day and earth the day before his
planned ambush. He did not know at the time that
the purpose of killing Roland already was so Erville could
kill him so he would know he would be at
the funeral. Verlin told Dale the story of Colonial LeBaron,
(17:48):
about Rville killing his own brother, Joel I said, I've
never heard of any of these. They said, no one has.
No one was interested before, but now perhaps with this
murder and salt leg a very unique odd they will.
And then he told me about this raid that was
made by Herville's people, just horrendous to me. And I'm
(18:08):
Baja California, village named Los Milinos. The massacre, the fire bombing,
the shootings, the murder of two innocent young men. I thought,
I gotta get this guy. And I went into the
other and said, I'm off on this. The team can
do the rest of it. And I became so committed.
(18:32):
Dale started to learn other things about Herbl's Colts, the
identities of some of Herville's inner circle, and he started
to hear whispers about the Colts movement in the years
following the Los Milinos massacre. We're talking between n and
seventy seven here, a period where the Colt had been
moving across America, living and hiding house to house, town
(18:57):
to town, and in between. Well, quite a few people
who came into the orbit of the Colt had gone missing.
Perhaps the most shocking, stomach turning of all the stories
Dyl heard was about a woman named Becky Becky was
(19:19):
Irvil's daughter, one of thirteen children born to his first wife, Delfina.
Becky had inherited Ervil's gift of visions, saw things, heard things,
blurted out things you shouldn't say. But the colt did
not see her as a prophet. They saw her as
a loose cannon. Dale began to hear rumors about just
(19:40):
what had happened to Becky. Anyone who opposed him deserved
to die, including a daughter. It was just a question
how many people he could order be killed that there was.
There was really gonna be no stopping him. Dale knew
Becky had been married off to another one of Rvil's
inner circle, Victor money mansion Off Hervill's minister of finance.
(20:02):
He was Glenchonov's younger brother who you heard from an
episode three, an older brother of Rina Channath. All part
of that interlacing of blood ties that bound Evil's crime family. Anyway,
Victionof was also a person of interest to the police
at this point, but not just because of Becky's disappearance.
(20:22):
It was because the polygamous other wife, who was called Nancy,
had been picked up by the cops for information on
the ruling all red murder. So Dyll called up viction
AV the money man, understand, said your wife was in town. Wow,
(20:46):
this thing was happening. Dale keeps the questions simple. Ask
the sort of things a reporter asked a KG source.
Just keep the conversation going, keep them from hanging up.
You have seen and known Herbal Aparonetic in the course
of your life. What was he like? Not here like
(21:09):
everybody think good my opinion, really, but I did everybody
think he is bouts everything? That's Vic defending Herbal saying
he isn't all blood and guts. One was the last
time you know where he is? I have no idea
(21:30):
where he work for him? Dale keeps reeling him in.
I think that there was a fundamentalist that said that
for some reason, information that he was suppuying money to
his church, the Lamb of God. Really did you ever
belong to his church? Vic says he has nothing to
do with Hervil's church. Dale knows he's lying. I'm not
(21:52):
trying to be a basic or not ever Religi. That's
not that religious a person. Vic lying again, but then
he reverts to a trick the le barons would use
over and over with the police in there many many
interactions with them in the years to come. Vic kind
(22:12):
of turned the table. He started to gently mind Dale
for information. What did he know about the investigation into
the colt I have a word for I'm not sure perfect.
I couldn't can't understand how they all had came up
with a warrant for you to win. Dale tried to
change the conversation. Light in the mood. Remember him saying
(22:34):
anything funny or something funny, may runners have a lot
of wit. I wanted a lot of wit, like the
brother who was building spaceships. After circling around and around,
Dale sensed his time with Vic was drawing to a close,
(22:57):
so he went in hard. What he really wanted to
know that you ever been a believe? Everybody knows, Vic says.
Everyone knows he has two wives, but now he only
has one, which led Dell to wonder, where's Eervil's daughter?
(23:18):
Your other wife, Becky. No, she isn't deceased, he says,
just divorced. Vic is clearly becoming rattled by Dale's questioning
and by how much Dale knows. I don't want to
have anything about her. I didn't care about my wife,
(23:39):
and I a pride forever Dale had heard enough. Dale
is a meticulously organized reporter. I've seen the boxes of
notes and materials he assembled on the labyrins. He'd use
(24:01):
index cards to track leads, put them in a little
cardboard box he tied with a shoe string, and the
leads kept piling up, the way they do in cop shows.
Next up, Dale called Dan Jordan's, the one time French
missionary who had killed Joela Baron at Derville's bidding and
who wrote some of Herville's most incendiary propaganda. Dale tracked
(24:24):
down Dan's number and began probing him for information prior
to the over and we're years ago when apparently you
offered some pamphlets with her in the van. But Dan
was no fool. Uh, let me see this. I would
like to make his statement later on, but I would
(24:44):
rather not make a statement or have any comment at
this time because of the obvious appications expective in case
I will be making a statement at some future time
or the assigned to another words, no comment. But Dale
(25:07):
was now circling his main target, Herbal, getting closer and closer,
and as he did, his reporting was finding a wider audience.
The National press was now publishing his stories, but he
still needed to get to the one man at the
center of it all. I needed an interview able, and
(25:30):
I even wrote a piece for Time magazine because they
started to get interested, and a lot of others started
to get interested. And knowing that an interview with herble
was very important and it might be a reasonable ask
considering the number of murders that had been committed by
this time, when that was a dangerous thing to do,
(25:51):
my instinct was no. I felt he was a coward
and he never did anything himself. He always had other
people do it, and he would never act precipitously. If
I was interviewing him, it wouldn't happen there. I could
worry about it later. But there was no way Dale's
editors were going to send him down to Mexico. We're
talking about some serious expense. They did not have a
(26:14):
vision of what this story would be. So I spent
my own money. My wife and I had two thousand
dollars in the savings, and she agreed to let me
use it all. We hired a pilot, brought his two sons,
who were ex missionaries, spoke Spanish. First stop was the
Chihuahua Desert. I went down Colonial LeBaron first. When I
(26:40):
talked to his mother and his sister Esther, who was
kind of the family historian. I remember having a lot
of discussions of lygamy and how do these other wives
put up with it? And Virlin said to me, it's easier.
They don't expect as much. When Dale arrived in Colonial LeBaron,
five years had passed since Herville had killed his brother Joel.
(27:04):
But if he had expected the whole town to hate Herville,
Dale was in for a surprise. I was struck by
how they were still defending Herville even though he had
killed their most beloved brother and son, Joel. Dale was
experiencing those same emotions I had seen in Joel's son
(27:24):
Adrian and his wife Delhi on the hills over Los Melinos.
These split loyalties of the people who had once seen
Herville as family, and we're now watching on in confused terror.
As his cult grew as he carried out more and
more extreme acts. But then he got a break. A
(27:46):
possible location for Herville south of Mexico City, had an
address and everything I went there, he wasn't home. Dale
had arrived moments too late. It was where he was staying.
Several of the neighbors said he left a couple hours ago.
Dale left Mexico without the interview he wanted, but his
(28:09):
notebook was now overflowing with new leads. Any picture was
starting to emerge in the jigsaw puzzle of Herville in
his cult. It was a terrifying portrait of a cult
leader who seemed to have a genuine hold on his followers.
He was the patriarch, he was the boss. He was
an inveterate ladies man, and for some reason, women were
(28:33):
really attracted to him and he could charm them. Irene,
his sister in law, describe first seeing Herville at the time.
They're all poor and would have overalls with one rope
on one side going to the other side, and barefoot,
and she said he had a split in his crotch
which had never been repaired, and he didn't wear underwear.
So you saw all of Herville. And yet she still
(28:56):
said after that he was very handsome, and I still
found myself attractive. Plus he would you know, it's almost poetic.
If he starts talking visions and revelations, it's a manna
for those that are feeling persecuted, isolated. That here's someone
with a real vision. So he was trying to marry everyone.
(29:17):
And of course it wasn't just wives that he was
recruiting his disciples. He found vulnerable people who secretly wanted
to be loved, part of a community, and wanted to
amount to something which no one told any of them
before they would ever do. People searching for significance and
(29:38):
meaning in their lives. These were the recruits whose identities devils.
Uncovering people like Lloyd and Don Sullivan. He found people
who perceived themselves as failures and gave them a sense
of mission, even though it came to killing eventually, all
part of the same mission. As for Herville. Somewhere along
(30:05):
the line, Deal concluded his thirst for power for adoration
had consumed him, sent him down paths of wickedness, violence,
and murder. He was a man who craved power and
was very lustful. So how do you get power? How
do you sleep with as many women as you can?
(30:27):
I mean plaguing me appeal to him because all he
had to do is marry them and some whatever ceremony,
maybe maybe not take care of them. That wasn't a
big issue with him. He was driven by the need
to be adored, revered, loved by men and women. As
(30:52):
the summer of seventies went on, the stories of murders
and disappearances attributed to Herville and his followers continued to
come across Dale's desk. There was the disappearance of Robert Simon's,
a rival prophet. He disappeared after a game of pool
with some of the cult. In seventy That same year,
Noah Meserate, the plural wife of Bud Shannath. She had
(31:16):
vanished without a trace after a car journey through the
San Pedro Mountains with two of Herbal's wives. One of
those wives, she was called Vonda White, was linked to
the death of another of Herbal's group, a former army
vat who was instrumental in planning the Los Milinos attack,
A giant of a man named Dean vest He'd been
(31:38):
shot to death in seventy five in a house he
shared with Vonda White and some other cult followers. Dale wondered,
could all these killings really be Hervil's crime family. Um,
I'm curious as a young reporter what that felt like.
I would imagine it's exhilarating, but also a little scary.
(32:01):
I mean, were you scared at all? Did you recognize
the danger of what you were doing? No, I would
call it youthful ignorance, which followed me for quite some
time in my career. Now I'm kind of appalled of
the things I did without thinking of the consequences, especially
to my wife and kids. I can see why he'd
filled that way, because his investigation hadn't gone unnoticed by
(32:23):
the colt. Erville had early on identified me as a
major enemy. He knew he got word from a number
of people. It wasn't just the desert needs of the
stories he was getting there, but Time magazine, of course,
been Time was one of the biggest magazines in America
back then, and as the story was getting out, Erville
was angry and so at his orders, Disciple Lloyd Sullivan
(32:48):
was dispatched to pay del Van at his family a visit.
He had gone out to my house and was supposed
to murder me, so, as it turned out in retrospect,
I wasn't. Lloyd brought his son Don Sullivan along too.
They waited for hours, but Dale didn't come home. He
(33:09):
was in the newsroom working late. Again. He wouldn't find
out for a few years just how close he had
come to being another one of Hervill's victims. It was
only after the fact that I realized how dangerous it
may have been. But for me, how do I put
it and still sound humble? Don't worry about humble. The
(33:34):
mission was greater than the danger. It was a crusade.
This was an evil man, somebody I felt needed all
my energy to bring the task because no one had
done it before. But del van Ada wasn't the only
journalist beating a path to Hervil's dorm. That's coming up
(34:00):
after the break? Are we rolling? Then? Should we go?
Because they can edit. This is Lynn Packer. He's a
legendary investigative reporter in Utah, a contemporary of journalist Dale
van Ada, kind of his TV equivalent. I actually prefer
(34:21):
the old television method when we're looking at each other
like Dell. Also a member of the Mormon Church, went
to the same Mormon university as Dell, but he'd actually
heard of the Labyns way before Dale had when I
was on my LDS mission, and for missionaries it was
(34:44):
synonymous with Satan, with the devil, that the devil had
somehow influenced these missionaries to adopt the doctrine of polygamy.
For years. After this, Lynn put the Libyans out of
his mind, moved back to Salt Lake got a job
at Cassel, an NBC affiliate. He was making his name
(35:08):
in TV news when a decade later, back in Salt
Lake City, someone gave him a tip about a story.
A local radio host was building a sort of unusual
enterprise at his home, a flying saucer factory. I said,
a flying saucer factory. Yeah, he said. This flying saucer
(35:29):
company had an illustration of the flying saucer, and he
told me. But it was incorporated by Ross le Baron,
And so I went there and met Ross le Baron
for the first time. It was a small, really old
house in Salt Lake County, certainly in sort of a
rundown area. He was happy to see me. He wanted
(35:50):
the publicity. He took me to the backyard where he
was running flying saucer tests, and he said, of course
this is just a model. The big one will be
much bigger because it has to fly to another location
to pick up Jesus, to fly Jesus back to the Earth.
(36:12):
Because the Bible, the scriptures say that's how he's going
to return, and it's up to us to develop the
flying Saucer so that he can return to the Earth
for the last days. Lynn cut the TV package, a
quirky novelty piece the sort, right before the anchors tossed
it to sports with a little knowing chuckle, but no
(36:34):
one was laughing by the time. Lynn was next on
air to talk about the Labarrens. Tonight, Linn Backer and
Dwayne Cardill a grimpse at Irvil Labarren's former territory near Ensenada, Mexico.
This frightening cult leader now on dimensioned by Good Evening
(36:56):
the notorious evil. By the time of the nineteen seven
seven All Read murder, Lynn was the station's lead investigative reporter,
and after that killing, he'd also set off to Mexico
to do some digging into Herval in his colt, But
like Dale, he arrived too late to speak to hervill
that is, Instead, he had to settle for an interview
(37:17):
with a fellow reporter, someone who had managed to get
in a room with the elusive cult leader. Lauren Becklund
is a reporter for the Los Angeles Times and the
only journalist we've heard about who's interviewed Irvilla Baron. The
interview took place in August six. He was a very
large figure. We were sitting in a really hot and
(37:37):
Sonata jail cell and the whole room smelled like onions,
just tremendously onions. And I preserve a La Baron. I
think he's just eaten a lot. And he was just
spreading profusely, just more than I've ever seen anybody perspire
in my whole life. And as he spoke, it was
with hesitation at first, because I don't think he wanted
(38:00):
to talk to me, but later it was as if
he were trying to convince me. He was speaking like
a preacher, for his strong voice, a figure that seemed
to be larger than his physical presence. Lynn and his
TV news colleagues continued their reporting. They heard the same
rumors as del van Ada about some of the disappearances
(38:24):
linked to Ervil's disciples. Robert Simon's, who had been seen
earlier with rvil LeBaron, disappeared leaving his home with one
of LeBaron's followers. Like that rival prophet Robert Simons. Our
information is that he was last seeing what the disciple
of the Church of the Lamb of God. Neither this
disciple or Mr Simon's has been seen since and the
(38:46):
giant Dean Best. Add to that incident, another which occurred
last year in San Diego. Then a man named Dean
Best was murdered two women or suspects. Best had been
a follower of ervial LeBaron. That case, like the Simon's disappearance,
remains unsolved. As the summer of seventy seven, past journalists
(39:15):
like Dale and Lynn continued to bring Ervilla A Baron
to a national audience. The press had given hervila nickname,
the Mormon Manson. He had that kind of notoriety with
the public now. But despite all this, rvil Abarn's cultive
around one followers remained intact. Well that's how it might
(39:36):
have appeared from the outside anyway. But while Dale and
Lynne had been investigating, the cops, led by Detective Dick Forbes,
were building their own momentum, gathering evidence, identifying concrete suspects
for the killings of Ruling all Read, rival prophet Robert Simons,
and Dean vest And now the police were about to
(39:57):
make a major breakthrough, something they've been after from the
very start. Of their investigation. They were about to flip
someone from within the cult. Arrests at the heart of
hervil Abaran's colts were about to begin. Let's start with
your great on Morino December twenty six, Nan Devini four
(40:20):
and the event sent that after that, What did your
recollection of the strategy and the planning that went into
that about the actual way of itself? Someone who was
about to blow the whole hervil Abaron case wide open
for more of watches darn Man upstairs. That's the most
important thing to nominators person that's coming up in the
(40:43):
next episode of deliver Us from hervill deliver Us from
Herbale is hosted by me jesse Hyde and written and
reported by me Leona Hamad and David Waters. Production from
(41:04):
Leona Hamid and David Waters. Sean Glenn and Max O'Brien
are executive producers. Lena Chang and Megan Oyinka are researchers.
Marianna Gongora is our field producer. Fact checking by Donya
Suleman and Sona Avakian. Production management from Sharie Houston, Frankie Taylor,
(41:24):
and Charlotte Wolf. Austin Mitchell is our creative Director of Production.
Michae Lee Row is our managing editor. Gavin Haynes is
our head of Development. Willard Foxton is our creative director
of Development. Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander
and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Nicholas Alexander and David Waters.
(41:48):
Our music is composed by Julian Lynch. Special thanks to
Scott Anderson, Scott Carrier, Del van Ada, Pippa Smith, Saskia Edwards,
Matt O'Mara, Katrina nor l and Beth and Macheluso, or
In Rosenbaum, Shelby Shankman and all the team. A U
T A. For more from novel, visit novel dot Audio
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