Perfect Neighbors, Messy Truths (S1 E4 “Who’s That Woman”)

Looks can be deceiving, especially when they fade! Teri touches on ‘pretty privilege’ and what happens when the perks AND the flirts aren’t what they used to be. 

Meanwhile, the double lives of career wives, the beginning of ADHD on TV and working the poles for Oprah! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, Welcome to Desperately Devoted The Ultimate Desperate Housewives rewatch,
hosted by Meat Terry Hatcher, my on screen daughter Andrea Bowen,
and my real life daughter Emerson Tenney.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Today we are discussing episode four, Who's That Woman which
could also potentially be called Mincemeat, and what an episode
it is. We have Lynette grappling with whether or not
to give her children medication for add.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
And Susan is being blackmailed by missus Hooper, who claims
to know that the measuring cup found in Edie's fire
belongs to Susan and Julie.

Speaker 4 (00:39):
Brie continuing to struggle with her marriage to Rex, and
Gabby continuing her affair with John as Carlos's suspicion grows
to the point of him assaulting a cable guy and
inadvertently committing a hate crime.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
All extremely problematic in many ways. The episode wraps up
with Brie stealing Mary Alice's tapes from her therapist's office,
and the women gathering together to try to get to
the bottom of what is really going on in the
young house.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, let's find out. Let's find out what's going on.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
So many things to say about episode four, which aired
October twenty fourth, two thousand and four. First of all,
I just have to say, and I don't know who
is what network you're watching this on or rewatching this on.
I'm rewatching it on Hulu. And this was the first
time that in the Hulu the recap that I presume
is happens for any if you watch it because it's

(01:31):
previously previously on And Mary Alice says it, And it's
the first time we actually hear Mary Alice say. As
we see Bree turn up the little spikes in the
pull out couch, she says, everyone has a little dirty laundry,
And this was the slogan of the first season in

(01:52):
all of the marketing, but it's the first time that
someone's actually said it on the show.

Speaker 5 (01:56):
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
That was a big tagline.

Speaker 3 (01:59):
It was a big tagline on the dry cleaning back.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
Everyone on the Yeah, on the poster for your Everything,
everyone has a dirty well does everyone have a little
dirty laundry?

Speaker 3 (02:10):
I do, because I actually don't have a hamper right now.
My hamper, No I do. My hamper was sold. I
had it forever and I kept throwing wet wash cloths
in it. And then in the couple of days clearly
and in a couple of days it would take Then
it like kind of ruined the bag, and then finally
decided to throw it away.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, just you because I live alone, and I have
like a first in the second floor, but you can
reach you can see over from the second floor down
to the first floor. I don't put my dirty clothes
and a hamper anymore either.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
I do you do down the way?

Speaker 2 (02:44):
And I threw the banister down to the first floor,
where eventually I will take them up the laundry room.
But I just yeah, no, it's really it's gone.

Speaker 3 (02:58):
I have I have a pile to the shower right now,
and say this is.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Some reason someone should not live alone.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
I love how quickly we turned right into something like
as literal as let's talk about our dirty laundry process.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, I certainly don't have any secrets.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
You don't have any secrets.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
So this episode title is another song we're gonna you know,
obviously we're going to go over the Sondheim references because
it's such a cool part of this show. And anyway,
this one happens to be from the show Follies. So
for those out there who listen and care about that.
Now you know who's.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Happy.

Speaker 5 (03:36):
Yes, I know.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
I found this to be and I really related to
this an episode that really circled around identities and like
how we identify ourselves. And I will admit that as
a six year old woman who has had her adult
daughter go off to begin her independent life. And even

(04:00):
more so now no, I mean you, no, I.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
Love it because you say I feel like you've said
that for like, when I went to college, it was
like she's going off to college. When I graduated, it
was like she's graduating, She's beginning her adult life. Now
I'm looking at twenty eight coming up, and she's like
she's beginning her adult life.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Should I say beginning, Well, I meant more like, I
feel like because you actually bring out points And I'm
saying this for all the empty nesting moms that might
be out there listening. I think I hear you. I
empathize with you that you know the rule The first
of all, there's no rule book to motherhood. You know,
you have your child, and I mean there is like

(04:37):
what to expect when you're expecting, and what to expect
in the first five years. There's that kind of stuff,
but nobody really tells you. It's hard to know how
you're going to evolve with your identity, and the identity
that becomes very easy, and that I think mothers in
general love is mom. Yeah, I'm a mom, and it

(04:58):
means something to me, and it means something even more
importantly to other people, and there's a value in it.
And then these are the stages when you go off
to college. It is one degree of no longer being
a mom. You're still a mom.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
I still went with you to like help pass out
of my dorm.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, like, you know, I was still involved. I still
got calls when you had the flu and you know,
figuring it out.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
However, flew a lot, and the first I was going
out too much.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Then you graduate, so then that's another degree, like, oh okay,
and she she did not come home to live with me.
I mean she did a little bit because of COVID,
but like she as soon as she could went to
live in her own apartment. And now the next degree
is you're a real working professional and you're living with
your partner. Yeah, like so, I you know, I could

(05:47):
argue that I am pushed aside.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
The redefined And.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
This is what other women my age or you know
around my age.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
That that are.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
You get forced to redefine your identity. And it isn't
as easy as it sounds. Because when you take away mom,
if you're retired, which I am not, by the way,
anybody looking to hire a.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Finish an actress ready to work.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
I'm ready to work. But when you push aside that
sort of day to day mom role, when you know,
are not going to work every second, you have less
and less things to sort of hang on to figure
out what is your identity. And I'm right in that
stage where I'm trying to figure it out. And so

(06:34):
I look at the women, the characters in this show,
and I really get it and I feel again, I'm
going to say, this is why a show like Desperate
Housewives is lasting over generations, because people can relate to
it for as kind of stereotypical and what's the word satirish,

(06:55):
you know that is, you can still relate to it,
and that's why you buy in.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
You know, I'm so struck because I'm sitting here and
I'm thinking, I'm about to put that identity on, you know,
of motherhood and becoming a mom, and you know, it's
it's I have thought about identity so much prior to
watching this particular episode, just in this transitional phase I'm
in in my life and kind of what type of
mother do I want to be? And how does being

(07:24):
Andrea now change when I become Andrea as a mom,
And what do I want to model for my daughter?
And how is she gonna look at me?

Speaker 5 (07:31):
And what?

Speaker 4 (07:31):
You know, all these things are.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
All the right questions. Yeah, and you.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
Know, I'm taking that and it's a good thing I'm
watching Desert Housewives because I can hold from that, you know.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
The worst, what is so bad? How each is interesting to.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
Do their motherhood, you know, with some of the themes
that I'm sure we'll we'll get into. But I do
agree that the general theme woven between all the characters
being routed around identity was really prevalent and has had
me thinking a lot too.

Speaker 5 (08:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
I really resonated with the identity idea also, and this
idea of labels. You know, with identity, we label ourselves.
You know, you're either how high power exec or you're
a stay at home mom. You're either Gabby the fashion
model a stay at home wife, or you're Susan the
working single mom. And I think I was thinking even
at my age, you know, people in their mid late twenties,

(08:26):
early thirties. I feel like today we're in a time
in society where a lot of I was gonna say
artists my age, but I think it's people my age
in general have more than one job and more than
one identity that comes with it. You know, you work
at a coffee shop and then you are an actor,

(08:47):
or you work in a restaurant and you're a writer,
or you have a marketing job and you're also pursuing producing.
And I mean even for me, like we're doing this
podcast and I'm also a screenwriter.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
And everything's multi hypen it.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, everything is multi hyphen it. And I feel like
there is much more flexibility around labels, but also more
emphasis on how you identify yourself. And it's this weird paradox.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
That's so interesting.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, I wonder if it's I mean, it would be
hard for you to answer if it's harder or easier,
you know, to lean into your identity as a crutch
or to sort of unburden yourself from having to be
any label. But then you also don't have the support
of what it means to be part of that group

(09:33):
of other people who are Bearista's, you know or what.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, well, it's interesting. It's so interesting that you bring
up identity, because obviously this is a huge theme, especially
later in this episode, especially as a queer woman thinking
about identity. Now, I'm just jumping completely from what you
do or if you're a mom or not, like what it?
How do we identify? I was having a conversation with
my girlfriend earlier this week, and we were talking about

(09:56):
I was writing in a coffee shop and I overheard
these two young girls I I think they were It
seemed like they were seniors in high school or they
just graduated, and they were getting ready to go to college.
And one of them was talking about this girl that
she was dating and if they were going to stay
together when she went to college. And the other girl
was talking about how she kind of had a crush
on this non binary person and she said, oh, I

(10:18):
don't know if they want to kiss me or if
I want And I was just it doesn't really matter
what they were talking about. But I was listening to
them talk because I was really I'm such an eavesdropper.
I am a note or don't say coffee shops. I
don't say anything next to me in a coffee shop
because I am listening to you and I'm remembering it too.
I'm like too, so, yeah, beware everyone on the east side.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
But you're saying it doesn't matter, Well, it.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
Was just I was really struck by the fluidity with
which they talked about who they were seeing, how they
identified what they saw for their futures. And you know, there,
I don't know, maybe twelve fifteen years younger than me,
and I thought, oh my gosh, I did not grow
up in high school with this level of fluidity around identity.

(11:06):
And I was so struck by these girls who weren't
that much younger than me, maybe they were only ten
years younger than me, having just such ease with the
way they moved between the way that they labeled themselves
and what they so offfer their futures and what they
suffer other people around them, And yeah, it was it
was very moving.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, I mean, the bringing up labels, it also brings
up judgment, you know, And so it's one thing to
have your own sense of self and purpose and you know, acceptance,
you know. But but we live in a world and
in this show, they live on a street and in
a neighborhood where there's a lot of judging going on,

(11:43):
and you know, starting off with Lynette thinking that she's
going to have possibly a good day until she gets
the phone call and you know her her children are
so badly behaved that she's offered the idea that they
need medication or they're going to get kicked out of
the school. Yeah, that's that's that's huge. And this happens

(12:07):
to people like I was trying to think. This did
not happen to me. I you know, as you can see,
I sort of have the perfect daughter.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Oh thank you so much. I was so well behaved.
I never got kicked out of a classroom. It's I
was an only child and I sat at the adult's
dinner table a lot growing up, and so I think, I, yeah,
everything was interior. I just had a very interior life.
I think that's probably why I'm a writer now. Yeah,
I feel like, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
But listen, I mean you're talking about how your identity
was formed.

Speaker 5 (12:36):
It's it's so interesting.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
I I when I was driving over here today, I
was thinking a lot about identity and like, how do
I identify and how is my identity formed? And all
these things right, and Desperate Housewise plays a big role
in it, right, because I had been an actor for
a long time by the time I started the show,
but arguably this was the most successful, you know, on
a grand scale thing that I had done. And and

(13:00):
and I think when you're a performer as a child,
your identity is really kind of told to you by
not only the roles you book, but also you're kind
of praised for. You get verbal affirmations for the things
that people like about you, and then you adopt them
as like, Okay, that's who I am, right, And so
being a good little adult as a kid when you're

(13:21):
in the industry is really valuable. I happen to kind
of like be predisposed to be somebody who is a
perfectionist and cared about showing up prepared and wanting to
do things well. But you know, I was also awarded
for that behavior, right, And so I always was. I
was always told like my whole adolescence and Julie's kind
of like this too, like, oh, you're so mature for
your age or whatever. Right, we're so related, And so

(13:44):
when you grow up, what happens to the identity of
your mature for your age as a thirty five year
old woman.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Right.

Speaker 5 (13:49):
No one's telling me now that I'm mature for my age,
right right? I mean that would be weird. And at
this point, you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
It's so interesting.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
Yeah, but it was such a theme throughout me who
I am.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Do you know what came your mind for me? No?
But I would say, and I tell her this all
the time. Okay, this is the this is memportant. Just
that when I was younger, when I was forty, when
I was thirty forty, I was on the cover of magazines.
People told me all the time I was beautiful. That
was part of my identity. No one tells me that anymore.

Speaker 5 (14:23):
Well, we'll tell you right now.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
I'm just saying. So it is a transition like going
from the daily mom into the empty nester. And people
think that the state of their being is going to
last forever. Yeah, and and it isn't. And so you
really need to be present and really enjoy what gifts

(14:48):
you're given.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
I think about that with Lynette's character, you know, did
she really feel present and enjoy when she was working
sixty hour weeks.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
She's so wistful for it now because now she's so wistful.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
I'm curious, Andrew, So, how did you or have you
worked to redefine yourself as not well, such a mature
young adult.

Speaker 5 (15:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
I'm just a really mature, put together thirty five years old,
I know, but I think I've released a lot of that.
I don't have that as like the moniker I wear
when I walk into a room anymore, but I will
say that something is kind of beautiful and sweet?

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Is that?

Speaker 4 (15:19):
My mom over the past couple of years has said
to me, you know, when the occasion arises or like
on my birthday, that she sees she's watching me get
younger as I get older, And I think that's really cool.

Speaker 5 (15:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Is that because now that you don't feel the burden
of being like a perfect young actress who does everything right,
you know that you can actually be more playful and
get things wrong.

Speaker 5 (15:48):
I think so.

Speaker 4 (15:49):
I think that even though I wasn't necessarily beholden to
it at the time, in a way I was aware of.
I think that it served me. I liked it. I
really like being prepared. I like to do things.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
You know.

Speaker 4 (15:59):
In my mind, it's like I want to be perfect
at something I've never done, which is impossible, right, But
it's that like control thing, and I've definitely relinquished some
of that over the last few years, and I think
it's it's very freeing and yes, allows me to be
messier and more playful and all the things, and so well.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
That's one of the things I do love about aging,
Like I don't care that nobody says I'm beautiful anymore.
Like I I'm so freed of all that stuff, Like
I I love that.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
I love that. I mean, obviously, I am the youngest
one out of the three of us, but I I've
actually I've said this before. I feel like when I
because I also was really praised for being such a
mature young adult, praised you for thank you, no but
but for but for being mature and intellectual for my age.

(16:49):
And I feel like I always had this kind of
very concrete idea of what path I was going to
be on and when I was going to achieve things
by a certain age, and put a lot of pressure
on myself because I too, am so type a you know,
straight a student likes to know how to do everything,
even if I've never done it before, and I feel like,
I don't know, you know, the concurrent events. I feel

(17:09):
like when I turned twenty six, when I was like
over the hump of in my mid twenties or you know,
late mid twenties, and also I really kind of in
a more public way to my friends and family came out,
I felt this complete redefinition of my age. And I
have to say every year since then, I have felt

(17:32):
younger and younger, and I have felt, yeah, just like this,
it's so arbitrary, these rules that we put on ourselves,
and to just feel also maybe more confidence in my identity,
but also in my work and my voice.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
And your value outside of it, and my perfect exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Neither of you ever did anything wrong at school. You
never painted anybody.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Blue or it's a great sejuct, but did.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
I'm sure neither of you had medications either, But but
how do you feel? This was another daring, bold boundary break.
Early was to bring in in two thousand and four
a character who was considering is it adderall or.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
Yeah, I'm medication but yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
But for eightyd, I know it was kind of the
beginning of more and more of your fellow students. I
feel like there were some kids at schools that I
was aware of that were maybe starting to do things
like that, but I felt like on television it was
sort of the first character that really was getting this question.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
Yeah. I mean, you know, you feel for Lynette so
much because I thought, it's such a thing right, Or
you're trying to be such a good mom and you're
trying to do right by your children, and you just
don't know what right is Is it right to, you know,
give them the opportunity to silence these thoughts or to
dull whatever is making their antics act and then maybe

(19:00):
they're limited in school because of those things, or is
it right to let them be who they are and
see what happens if they don't interfere, you know? And
also if the thought isn't coming from you, but it's
coming from the school, it's coming from someone else, how
do you take that? If not feeling very judged or criticized,
or like being told you're not doing your job and

(19:20):
her job is such a thing right because she's like, oh,
I was so successful at the job that I did
before I was a mother. I was praised for how
good I was at it, and now I've given that
identity up to be this, and now I'm told I'm
not doing it well.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
It is interesting when you're in control of a situation
like Lynette was at work. You know, when she had
it her way, that she could excel at it. And
as soon as you add a variable where you don't
have the predictability, you don't have the control. I mean
it is she's really questioning if she can even make
the right decision. I feel a lot of empathy for her.

(19:55):
Al I feel a.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Lot of empathy for her too, and I really feel
like there is not a right choice. I think I
bumped up against a little bit in this episode. I
kind of felt like the writing around her character portrayed
her choice to ultimately not medicate them as the noble one,
like the right choice. Oh, She's going to embrace the
chaos and let them be who they are. And I think,

(20:18):
especially because attention deficit disorder wasn't something that was talked
about a lot at the time, I found it maybe
understandable but also potentially problematic choice to paint the choice
of using medication for people who have ADD or ADHD
as a cop out or as a negative.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
And you think that's how somebody might see it now,
who's viewing it now?

Speaker 3 (20:43):
Because I was watching it and I kind of felt
like there was a level of moral high grounds that
Lynette took when she said, I'm not going to give
this to you guys.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Well, it's interesting just the way you were describing it
like that, weighing out what is right. I never really
thought about it that if you did give the child
the medication and they were able to sort of quiet
some of the noise, they might have the potential to
have more opportunity in school or wherever that they wouldn't
get if they didn't have.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
I mean, I thought you talking about that this with parenting,
not in terms of taking medication or not, but in
terms of when you see like a very very young
kid at a fancy restaurant and the kid is acting
out or crying or running around and kind of like
disturbing the restaurant for other people. Something that you've said
before to me, mom, is that's so unfortunate that the

(21:32):
parents put their kid in a situation that they weren't
set up for success.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
I was a big one on that that that I
felt like I always took my parenting responsibility as part
of that was to not put Emerson in situations where
she wasn't ready to succeed, not that you have to
be not. In fact, I made you keep jumping. I
would not let you give up on jumping rope when

(21:57):
that was frustrate.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Oh my god, I was so bad at jump I
was I do it?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
I I was like a five or six year old
or something.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
I remember distinctly standing in the hallway with my jump
rope trying to practice jumping rope, and I would trip
every single step and I cried. I was fully melt down.
I could not do it.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
And you wanted to give up, and I wouldn't let you. Yeah,
but that's my point. So it's felt like I made
everything easy. But I do think being aware of what
you're asking, Like I think the restaurant's a good example.
Don't ask your three year old to come to like
a fancy dinner course dinner and sit there. It's just
you're you're setting them up to fail, and that's not good.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
So yeah, and so this idea that maybe you know
you need to maybe there are tools that set your
kid up to succeed that are kind of being ignored potentially.

Speaker 4 (22:41):
Yeah, and she Lynette has that one line that I
thought was so it just really tugged at my heart
where she's holding the mug and she's talking about you know,
and at first I didn't realize that the mug was
going to be a point of anything in the scene.
I thought it was just a prop and I thought,
oh God, the prop department is so good because I
get that perfectly childhood, you know, child made mug. But anyway,
when she says, I'm afraid if I change the bad stuff,

(23:02):
I'm going to change the good stuff, and I thought
that was a really nice line. And I feel like
we all feel versions of that, like if if we
correct this thing, is it going to how is it
going to impact the other things? Like maybe I don't interfere,
maybe I don't intervene and try to control it.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Sounds like we had a lot of empathy.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, yeah, so we had.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
In the last episode we had Gabby getting blackmailed, and
now in this episode we have Susan getting blackmail. I mean,
I just is that is that the go to drama blackmailed?
The next Who's getting black.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
Male is running rampant?

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Okay? Yes? And also just to you know, it's not
just a soap opera where everyone's getting blackmailed. I think
there's a really interesting layer underneath the blackmail of these women,
these housewives, especially missus Hubert. I God, I have such
a love hate relationship with her mainship in this episode. Yeah,

(24:07):
but they are looking for ways to have control in
their lives, and turns out blackmail is a way to
have control.

Speaker 5 (24:16):
Low hanging right apparently.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah, And oh god, I feel for Susan in the
grocery store when Miss Hoover comes up and then she
she says no to Mike to go see the Hitchcock
movie and then she pays for her groceries and stand
up for yourselves.

Speaker 4 (24:33):
And there's that moment between us between Susan and Julie
in the kitchen where you had come clean, you know,
you wake Julie up and you tell her I think
I'm being blackmailed, and then we go down. And I
thought it was so. I thought it was kind of
a nice thing because so often our dynamic is like
Julie tries to be the voice of reason, right, like
that's something that that's maybe her way she identifies and uh,

(24:57):
and you actually, Susan, to her credit, it wants to
do the right thing by going to the cops, and
Julie is the one who's.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Like, well, this is interesting. I'm gonna just sigde tangential
to this relationship. I mean, not necessarily just from this episode,
because this is another way that I was a different mom.
So people always think that I can't cook because Susan
can't cook, And people think that I'm a klutz because
Susan fell down, and I'm a dancer. So there's a
lot of differ and I always met I was the

(25:25):
only breadwinner. Nobody ever bought, you know, like paid for
my way or whatever. Anyways, lots of different things, but
one of the things here that I had to accept
that I thought was charming in the context of Desperate
Housewives and the Julie Susan relationship that I would never
do because of my relationship with my own mother, is

(25:47):
I have been overly cautious to not put you taking
care of me. You Emerson. I'm pointing at Emerson to
our life, like, because I feel like my mother needed
a lot of emotional.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Care from me too much.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
She needed me to fulfill something that she couldn't fulfill herself.
And I think that is a really regrettable, not great
thing to do to your child if you cannot do it.
And I do feel like Susan leaned on Julie way
too much, yea. And that was a quality about her

(26:27):
that I didn't love as as the mother that I am.
But I loved it in the television show and I
loved it in the dynamo dynamic of how a character
has to grow and what the relationship.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
With it was.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
But if you were if we went around and we
were like, what did Susan, Gabby, Bree, and Lynette do wrong?
As mothers would put on this Susan list would be
treated Julie like an equal as I can or as

(27:01):
a friend way too much. Yeah, what do you guys think?

Speaker 5 (27:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (27:04):
I think that's a fair assessment. I also think I
understand from a your standpoint, it's a very charming dynamic.
Like you said, like I watch it now and I think, oh,
they're so sweet, Like they're so cute, and they're you know,
like committing crimes together and they're you know, and it's sweet.
It's sweet and charming and ridiculous. It's not how I
would say suggest someone use it as a how to

(27:26):
parent Handbook. But I think you know, and it's interesting
because you were a real life single mom at the
same time and who was doing things very very differently.
So yeah, but I I do think by your are
Susan's arc in this episode. Something I thought was so
great is again the payoff, you know, when you do

(27:47):
find your backbone and you stand up to Martha Huber.

Speaker 5 (27:50):
It's just it's so satisfied.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Okay, But we kind of back up to how we
get there in the first place, which is because I
know you said you had something to say about what
I've made here for Oh.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
My gosh, Oh my gosh. Well there's there's so many
things to say, but we're staying with Missus Hooper's blackmail
when she shows up at Susan's house with the mince
meat comment I wrote in my notes also again in
all caps. Okay, Missus Hooper is all caps off the

(28:26):
rails in this scene exclamation point no, because she is.
I mean, she's she comes in and she's saying, mince meat, Lady,
I'm gonna make mince meat. That's what she's actually saying.
I'm gonna make mince meat out of you. I'm gonna, yes,

(28:46):
that was an expression, and I just I have to
say I felt like the tone of the show shifted
into a different place for a moment in that scene
because I and this is totally not a slight at
the actor playing Missus Huber, but I feel like there
is a level of even though the circumstances are very heightened,

(29:08):
there's a level of the way most of the women
are playing their scenes with each other that feels very
grounded in the reality of how we speak and what
is conversational. And Missus Hooper comes into Susan's house and
it's like a portal's been opened into this other world
where like the witch from next Door into the Woods

(29:30):
comes in and is talking about mince meat in this
over articulation, and it just it was fascinating.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
But across the tone for you a little no.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
I mean it did I bumped up against I love it,
go off, go off, tell me, Because I.

Speaker 4 (29:48):
Think every neighborhood in this kind of perfect world right
has a crazy, zany neighbor, you know, like Missus Huber,
and I think that we kind of established that in
the pilot right where she clearly and she's she takes
the nosy neighbor role to the nth degree, right, And

(30:08):
yes it is very heightened, and yes it's very campy.
I happen to love camp I love I'm here for But.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, when you look at any I mean, I'm trying
to think of a comedy that's on television right now
that that rides this line.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
It.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
It is something I was always aware of and and
sometimes I feel like the writing supported uh me, and
sometimes I felt like it fell short. And I mean
for Susan's character, at least up till now four episodes in,
I'm not seeing that, but I definitely recall in later seasons,
you know, feeling like Susan wouldn't say this, This is right,

(30:44):
like that kind of comedy is is to me, it's
the best, but it's also like a tight rope. It's
the hardest, and it's the hardest. It's the hardest to write.
Always had to responding to act.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
You're responding so authentically. I would say, in the heightened
scenario of that you.

Speaker 5 (31:04):
Open your mouth that she's feeding.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
I know, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Can we just talk about what I The beautiful thing
I have here, first of all, mince meat is do
you guys know what a mince meat. Okay, so mince
meat typically was a traditional meat pie. Like it's like
if you think about we went to Cornwall last year,
if you think about like the Cornish Pasti's or whatever.
It's a way to incorporate meat into a pie, like

(31:31):
so that you're getting a meal in one thing. And
so when you make I have made for you a
fruit mince meat, which is what which is what missus
Whober claimed to make.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
That's what she said. I'm going to be real not
I know it was dark.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
This mince meat pie is three different kinds of apples.
One of the apples brands are not brand what do
you call it?

Speaker 5 (31:58):
A apple?

Speaker 2 (32:00):
I have the apple varieties is called the Envy apple.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
And I was like, well, I have to use that.
I have to say the apples are I've been getting
them in the grocery store to like the best kind.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Yeah, so this is honey crisp, green apple, and Envy apples.
They are I think they are chopped uniformly in the
same size that you would have a piece of steak.
So that is what you're trying to mimic. If you're
doing im Wow, it's got a lot of warm seasoning, cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice.

(32:30):
There's orange zest, there's ginger zest, and there's some raisins,
which I went light on the raisins because I know,
God bless you, we always have the argument over carrot
cake of like raisin snow raisins.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Caras.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
So anyways, it's delicious and I think it will be
delicious anyways, so I made it. I put a little
heart on there just because I love you, guys.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
And now we're just going to get to stare at
that we're talking about this.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
But that scene was is a crazy scene and definitely
set up I think Susan feeling like she was getting
mincemeat made of her, yeah, as she kept putting up
with this woman until she finally conquers her.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
I do have to say, though, I mean, obviously this
is being used as a blackmail intimidation tactic, which we
see a lot of different versions of intimidation tactics in
this episode. But I did think missus Hooper's phrasing of saying,
you know, I really want to help you. I didn't
help you enough when Carl left you, and now I
want to help you. Get Mike on your side and

(33:35):
go out with Mike. It actually made me think about
something I studied in a social psychology class at Brown,
which was this really interesting study that I think about
a lot that talked about people actually like you more
after you ask them to do something for you.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Ah.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
Yes, the psychology of that. That the idea of feeling
which I think plays back into this question of IDENTI
and labels. The idea of feeling needed.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
People buy someone, Yeah, makes them like I told her
about relationships growing up. Now we're just gonna this is now,
this is atitary, mother Emerson.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
How did you do it? No?

Speaker 2 (34:13):
But this was another thing I said, is that don't
a lot of women these days, I think, go around
thinking independence is everything, Like, you know, I'm going to
do it myself. You know I can do it myself.
And what I would offer her, the idea of is,
you know, let your partner do something for you.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
People like to feel needed.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
You know.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
It makes me think of Brion Rex and how she says,
you know, in college we were the perfect couple and
everyone wanted to be us, and what happened And he says,
you won't even let me, You can't even let me
pack my own suitcase.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Yeah, yeah, that that dynamic has gotten really off for them.
I still think that line stuck out to me Again,
I think I said this before, which is I'm still
having a hard time understanding where Bree came from. I'm
having an art she when she said that line as
the actress. I mean, I thought it was a lovely performance.
I believed, you know her her pain in saying like

(35:09):
when we were in college, you know, everybody thought we'd
be great, Like what has happened to us? I totally
believed that, but the the text of it didn't. I
just I'm still not can't take sure all the.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Questions what has happened?

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Right?

Speaker 3 (35:23):
We want to know what did happen?

Speaker 2 (35:26):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (35:26):
And sticking with the Breeze story, a little arc in
this episode with with Andrew and Danielle her children and
obviously how he is. Andrew is angry. He's angry that
Rex has left. He's angry at Bree theoretically for driving
their dad away. And you know, it made me think

(35:47):
how often it is that, you know, the woman in
the situation is blamed maybe quicker than the man, right,
and uh, then it leads obviously to the hilarity of
him as going off to the trip club and then
free perfect bree in her you know, buttoned up shirt
sitting next to him and ruining his night and ruining
the guy next to them.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Tonight, I got that speach that that character makes about
who's that girl? And she's got a mother?

Speaker 3 (36:13):
And then well the guy to lean over at the
end to go, you gotta get her out of here.

Speaker 5 (36:17):
She kill all of us.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
I know, I know it was it so funny, but honestly,
we've come a long way with conversations around sex work.

Speaker 5 (36:24):
I think since this episode.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Well, I was going to say, have either of you
ever been to a strip club? What are your thoughts?

Speaker 4 (36:31):
All a great strip club story?

Speaker 5 (36:32):
Actually?

Speaker 4 (36:33):
Please, I wasn't planning. I mean I didn't even think
about it, But now that you just prompted this, I did.

Speaker 5 (36:37):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
So there's a strip club in Los Angeles, and uh,
just one, just one, No.

Speaker 5 (36:45):
There's many. This one happens to be called the Body
Show by the Airport.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
It's the one on Sunset anyway, And I never it
wasn't like my thing.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
I was not.

Speaker 4 (36:54):
I mean, no one's surprised, but I was not like
a big goer outer as a as an adolescent.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
You were so much for your age.

Speaker 4 (37:03):
But when I was in my twenties, we went out
and the night ended at the strip club. And it
was me and my girlfriends, right, and we were there
and there was a stripper who was obviously in a
state of undress, and she did her thing, and then
she hopped off and she came over to me and
she told me that she was a fan of Desperate

(37:23):
Housewives and she was naked and she was a fan
of Desperate Housewives. And this is where it gets really good. Okay,
that this isn't her only job. She's also a stylist
and if I'm ever in need of clothes, clothing or
styling for an event, to give her a call, and
that she was going to give me her card. And
I thought it was so funny because she was standing
there in front of me naked, and I was.

Speaker 5 (37:42):
Like, well, I can't judge how you'd style me, but
you know that's pretty good.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
God.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Yeah, okay, that's her true story.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
Labels everyone having multiple labels and that they carry with
us all the time and multiple jobs. I love that.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Ye yeah, I love that. I have been into a
strip club. I mean I was a couple of times.
I think I went to a strip club in Vegas
a long time ago, and I went to a strip
club in New Orleans. When I was doing the movie
Heaven's Prisoners, I wanted to kind of actually research, so
that was kind of a more of a research stripper. No,
but I played a person who was involved with strippers

(38:19):
in that sort of life, and so I kind of
wanted to see what that was like. And then I
did stripping on on Desperate Housewise.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
Stay tuned for that stage.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
I remember that and yeah, that's much later, but that happens.
And then, uh, I used to take stripping class for exercise,
like part of the S factor. I was part of
the Oprah. I was on Oprah showing Oprah how to do.

Speaker 5 (38:50):
A poll.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
I also did it on Jay Leno, not the man
the show we want to pull m not on himself anyways.
So I, you know, I tend to imbue this with
like I want to empower these women. You know. I

(39:11):
the painting that Brie was painting that this is so
bad and her mom must be disappointed, and you know, because.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
A humiliating thing.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Whatever. I resist that as a as a modern day story.
Now I wouldn't want to project that. I mean, that
might be the truth for sure, but I wouldn't want
to project that. I still am in the lane of
like hoping that women are doing what they're doing because
they want to be doing it.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Yeah, and they feel empowered that. I agree. And the
truth is, so many women with so many jobs, you know,
walk around carrying various forms of trauma and childhood trauma
and some of the experiences that Bree talks about in
that speech, many many women have and it does not

(39:59):
result in choosing a particular line of work. It feels
like a very misplaced Yeah, but it makes sense.

Speaker 4 (40:05):
For it makes sense for the character, It makes total
sense for her, and and comedically it was great. And
and then she says later in the episode, well, if
you think that, you know, I feel bad about pulling
you out of a strip club like that. I consider
that one of my greatest moments. Yeah, I was going
to say, we've got Carlos, Yeah, We've got more Carlos.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
I mean, I want to start in the bathtub with
the rubber ducky because I feel like that's going to
be the same comment as the algebra class.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
And yeah, I don't know, he might do that I
haven't seen that far.

Speaker 5 (40:41):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
But when he says I'm usually playing with my rubber
ducky and now I have more to play with or whatever.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
I mean, I'm on the floor shocked.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
But yeah, line, I mean, I hope doubling down on
the you've got to be underagee.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Well, they were having fun in the right, I was.
I was. I was watching that scene, and I was thinking,
people are riffing with these lines, and they're really enjoying
coming up with what they're coming up with. And now
I am watching it and I'm horrified, and I'm horrified
for Gabby and for John and and ultimately for many

(41:19):
more people. As Carlos gets more and more suspicious that
Gabby's having an affair.

Speaker 4 (41:24):
Of course, Okay, so they're in the tub, and then
the doorbell rings, and then John freaks out because he
thinks that Carlos is home, and she has the line
of like, well.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
He wouldn't ring the doorbell, which I thought was funny.

Speaker 4 (41:34):
And then and then it's the cable guy, the cable guys,
and he's been late, yeah, show up late, yes, yes,
And so then you know, John takes off, right, he
takes off and forgets a sock, leaves a little sock behind.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
Which Gabby so geniusly quick thinking. So I honestly, I
was kind of and I just felt like it spoke
to something about Gabby's backstory that she immediately thought, like
she done this before, I don't know, to take the
socks and go put them down by the washing machine
and say that that is what the housekeeper uses.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
It's because Gabby's as smart as she is beautiful, right,
she says, all the tools, right, I mean, I'm going
to figure.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Out not a split second waisted, how to.

Speaker 2 (42:19):
Do with this sock, like I'm going to solve this
problem instantly.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
Yeah, I mean, it's really it's impressive, you know what.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
It's a character trait though that that I think comes
from having to protect yourself.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
I was about to say it speaks to a survival instincts.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
So it must. I don't remember if we ever get
to a backstory about that character, but it says to
me that that was a character who who survives.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
And they and and that's why they developed all that
quick on their feet yeah behavior.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
Oh gosh, and then and then well then quick on their.

Speaker 5 (42:52):
To put on a sock as she's dusting the banister.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
It kind of made me want to try it. I
was like, it sort of seems like a good idea.
You could just spray the banister and then just have
it and then your rather than having to hold a rag,
you could just like, I think we.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
All have socks that we don't use any Well.

Speaker 4 (43:08):
There's always back to the laundry, Back to the laundry,
there's the one rogue sock.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
And now we have a right that's when you're one
rogue sock, make it a dust rag.

Speaker 5 (43:20):
But then Carlos ends up committing hate crime.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
Well, yes, okay, so because the cable guy slips and
the paramedics have to come because he hits his head
really bad, and Carlos is suspicious about why was he
there so late? And he asks John, who obviously trying
to cover his own tracks.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
Quick on his feet, he's just barely out of algebra, and.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, he kind of bumbles that response, but at least
he's in birkenstocks at that point, staging.

Speaker 5 (43:53):
Well, I mean they're really.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Back, I know, just walk them into silver Lake. And
then and then Carlos, I know we talked about this
last time we talked about episode three h Carlos kind
of feeling increasingly scary and intimidating and kind of domineering,
and then he actually goes and assaults someone. And I
have I have so many thoughts about this scene.

Speaker 5 (44:15):
Tell us.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
I mean, you know, it's funny. I was talking to
my girlfriend about this scene because I said, because she
actually watched Desperate Housewives with her mom. She was a kid,
I mean, not quite as young, maybe somewhat retroactively a
little bit later, but she remembered this scene and I
was describing it and I said, okay, So Carlos shows
up at the cable guy's house. He thinks he's going

(44:46):
to teach him a lesson, you know, he punches him,
and it is I have to say from comedic writing,
it is a very funny beat. He punches the guy.
The guy's on the floor, He's like, why are you
doing this? And Carlos scared the apartment and he sees
a gypsy God bless Mark Cherry. He sees a gypsy
poster on the wall, and then he sees a picture

(45:08):
of the cable guy and his partner who is a man,
and he goes, you're gay with a question mark because
he's surprised, and the guy goes, is that why you're
doing this? And Carlos goes, uh, yes, and then leaves yeah,
And then it immediately becomes a story that we see

(45:29):
on the news of this hate crime committed against a
gay rights activist. The cableman turns out to be who
was advocating for the same rights, which I found incredibly interesting.
He's a gay rights activist who's currently working on making
sure same sex couples have the same rights as married
people in general, well in general, I thought it was

(45:51):
same sex partners being recognized as having the same rights
in their partnership, which at the time, gay marriage was
not legalized, right, so it didn't happen, so you had
to really work to find other loopholes to have your partnership,
you know, the ability to visit in a hospital, the
ability to have things that married couples have.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
A way a tiny two line exchange of a scene,
another groundbreaking ahead of its time moment. Yeah, not to
interest you, no, and.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Really commenting on the state of the queer community at
that time that this was made. And I think the
reason that it's interesting we're watching it right now, but
that this episode sat so much with me is with
our current administration talking about repealing the right to gay
marriage right now, which has obviously been a right since
two thousand and eight. And my mom and I were

(46:42):
just talking about this. She sent me a TikTok at
like eleven thirty at night. Cool when all of the
best all of the best ideas come from TikTok, And
she said, actually, I mean, it does make me really sad,
but she said, you know, you might want to file
this away. This is a gay rights lawyer talking about
the nine documents. You need to have your partner so
you can still my god, I'm gonna be emotional, so

(47:04):
you can still have your partnership recognized if they repeel
the right to gay marriage, which my girlfriend and I
are not married, but obviously you know, we're in a
serious partnership and that's the things that we're talking about. Yeah. Sorry,
I'm emotional. But it was really interesting to see this
come up in such a convenient beat that I appreciated,
But that really kind of cut to the quick of

(47:24):
our current political times right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
And amazing that the Carlos character cared less about his
abusiveness right. I mean, cares really out, cared less about
being a hate crime than he did about his abusiveness.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Talk about the labels. He was like, I'm fine with
being like, right.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
With being a hate crime, but you know, not not
someone who would be cheated, who would be cheated.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
On an emasculated husband. Yeah, God forbid God.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
I mean, yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
That's what I was trying to say. You did it
better because I kind.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
Of no, no, no, that's right though. You're saying that
he would rather be labeled as someone who would commit
a hate crime against a gay person than he would
be an emasculated husband.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Yeah, And I think that's why when we get to
the end of this episode, between this and the last
episode where he responding to what the famous ejaculation line,
you know, he says, Man, if my woman said anything
like that, that'd be the last time, you know.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
She would only say that one.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
You know, Like, we've gotten now to this episode where
I just feel like and we we're just really sitting
with this very heavy, dominating character. And again maybe it's
because I know we'recarded, like we got to get well
because over the years, like he and I have had dinner.
We had dinner at Kids Met a couple of years ago.

(48:47):
He's actually doing a play right now in Minnesota that
I might go see. It's about to open, and like,
so we keep in touch, and I think of him
as this, like he's a dad, he builds stuff in
his house.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
He's a very sweet guy.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah, and obviously I can cook Susan can't cook, like
like he doesn't have to. But it is interesting I
do not have the recollection of that character being this intent.

Speaker 5 (49:12):
I know what is that.

Speaker 4 (49:13):
It's like our minds kind of corrected him in our heads.
I think because maybe we love Ricardo and.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Or maybe because you weren't in those scenes with him.

Speaker 4 (49:20):
I mean maybe that's or also just because I'm looking
at it not as you know, a child anymore. But
I'm thinking about this idea of like taking stepping crossing
the line too far, just in general, like obviously he
crossed a line way too far by showing up at
that man's house and abusing him.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Right.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
I have noticed that I inherently am on the women's
side almost all the time, like in their independent storylines,
like if it's them against you know, if it's Lynette
against the teacher, or it's you know, Gabby against Carlos,
or if it's pre against Rex, Like, I'm having to
really think about the perspective of the other character because
I'm inherently on our hero's side, right, even when they're

(49:58):
doing something very wrong. I think that's really smart writing.
And it also just shows like because we're kind of
supposed to be rooting for them. But I was a
little appalled about them all sitting around listening to Mary
Alice's therapy tapes, and I wanted to know what you
guys thought about that invasion of someone's privacy, especially after
they've since passed and they're sitting there kind of trying
to find out information that she never readily shared with them,

(50:20):
and that she only shared with in the confines of
a therapist's office, And that is to.

Speaker 5 (50:27):
Know, what do you think of that?

Speaker 2 (50:29):
I didn't really snag on it, but now that you're
bringing it up, it is kind of like, I mean,
I guess I must have made an excuse for it
in that maybe they're just trying to.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
Solve the issue, but you're right, it is very.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Wrong, and none of them really put do I don't
remember did any of them push back and be like,
we shouldn't be listening to this.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
Was that no, I think, I mean Gabby says like, oh,
it's weird hearing mary Alice's race. But I don't think
any one of them raises an issue necessarily.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Interesting this idea.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
If someone did, it would be Lynette. I think Lynette
would go, I can't believe you got this out of
the therapist, right. That sounds like something she could have said, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Well obviously, Yeah, there's the stealing from the therapist office,
and then there's the listening to it. And I feel
like there is something interesting about when does the line?

Speaker 2 (51:16):
You know?

Speaker 3 (51:16):
I bet they would feel more morally outraged about listening
to it while Mary Alice was alive and then they
had to see her and hold on to the secret
that they knew her personal information. Then they do feel
listening to it now that she's dead, right and they're
trying to solve something. And I do think there is
some I mean, come and correct me on this, because

(51:38):
I am no lawyer, but I feel like in certain
cases therapists can be subpoena to have to give up
notes or recordings, you know, if someone commits a homicide
or something you know, like in certain mysteries.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
I don't think not by banda camp, no, but.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Certainly not by people stealing the tape out of their office.

Speaker 5 (51:59):
I think you're right.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
I think there there might be certain occasions when it's
when it's permitted legally.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
Yea.

Speaker 5 (52:04):
But I also fascinated.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
By the recurring nightmare thing, like I, you know, that's
what she's saying on the tape, and that her name's Angela,
which I've forgot.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Or by the way, yeah I've forgot.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
I've never seen it.

Speaker 5 (52:16):
Excited to know what that means later, and I feel.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Like you win because you've never seen it, Like we
just do a lot of we forgotten.

Speaker 5 (52:21):
Yeah, we forgot.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Fall new to me because it is.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
Yeah, But also it made me think about recurring nightmares
in general, like do you have you guys had recurring nightmares?
I certainly have had some weird recurring nightmare since I
was little. Some involved cockroaches, which is just probably because
I grew up in Manhattan. I have another one about
being tied to train tracks.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
Yeah, and I always wake up before the train gets
too close. But I feel the wind on my face
and I see that like lights of the train and
that's how I wake up. And I've had that dream
more than once.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
Wow, have you looked into what that means?

Speaker 4 (52:58):
No, because I'm terrified of knowing. Okay, crazy that makes.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Me not about recurring nightmares. But I thought you were
going to say, because I feel like we have to
touch on it, when you talked about crossing a moral line,
I thought you were going to talk about yourself crawling
through the doggy door to steal back the measuring.

Speaker 5 (53:15):
Corh gosh, that is so funny.

Speaker 4 (53:17):
I love that scene, and I will say so, I
actually do remember filming that scene, and the reason being
I have terrible hand eye coordination and I was really
nervous to have to toss the frisbee back and forth
with you in front of our crew because I knew
that I was going to drop it a lot and
I knew it was going to be bad. And anyway,
I'm sure I did, and they edited it. Well, you

(53:37):
look like an extras You're good YEA like through my golf?
Really yeah, wow, I didn't get that.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
From frisbee golf.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
It's like you throwing the frisbee like to get it
to a flag, you know, to get it like the
same my silf.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
She explains this to me, like, are you even my daughter?
You don't know what frisbee golf? But we did play
frisbee at the beach. I know, I'm not intimidated.

Speaker 4 (54:02):
Well, I am intimidated by frisbee and little Andrea was.

Speaker 5 (54:05):
And anyway, can we.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Talk about how great Nicolette was in that scene? Oh
my god, yeah, yeah, I I so.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
It, And how upsetting and heartbreaking Susan is. I was yelling, like, stop.

Speaker 4 (54:18):
Giving your data, I know, but Nicolette in that scene,
it is so good when she she has that moment
where she does the hand gesture after it's like one
too many, when she basically is saying to Susan, you know,
I don't stop throwing it in my face, and then
it just keeps happening, and she like turns to walk
away and she puts her hand out and it's so funny.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
No, she's really really, really good in it, and it
kind of brought up I remember just that like it
was it was an interesting thing about how some people
used to feel like it was four housewives or it
was five housewives. I remember that, and I remember really
on early on being like it's five housewives, you guys,
it has to be five. She has to be included,
you know. I think there's even a USA article, like

(54:57):
a USA Today article where I said that really like yeah,
I was one of the first women to actually say it, like,
you know, she's so good. Yeah, she totally is. And
it's just it rounded out that Nope, the way you
were talking about Missus Hooper sort of like pushing that
that that line a little bit, that tone. I feel

(55:18):
like the Eaedy character also does that. I mean the
classic like car washing, she's putting anybody.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
There's two lines from that storyline that I just loved.
One of them happens to be mine, So I'll just
give myself back on the butt.

Speaker 5 (55:33):
You better get over there. She's wearing cotton.

Speaker 4 (55:35):
Yeah, that's a great line. I think that's more the
writing than the way I delivered it. But I did
love that. And then Nick let this is the way
she delivered it and the writing. But when she says
every time, I hate Susan Mayer another count for the
mispronounciation of our name. Right, yeah, we did, we need
a button. But when she comes in and she says
I hate Susan every time, I see those big dough

(55:58):
eyes of hers, I swear to god, I just want
to go out and shoot a deer.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Yeah, it was so good. The line is so good,
but the way she delivered her so good too, because
because you thought it was going to be. Because every
time I see those big dough eyes, I want to
punch her in the face. I want to slap her
across the cheek. I want You're just sure that that's
what it's going to be, and it's shooted deer and
of the greatest punchline. It's like great, it was so

(56:27):
there dynamic.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
We get to see that friendship again, which we talked
about I think last week or maybe the week episode before,
but about the weird Missus Hooper kind of strength.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
They're like the two the two kind of ostracized people
that like find each other because there's nobody else. But
you know, they they're sort of like the the almost
like the third wheel, but it's it's a it's a
it's a seventh and an eighth wheel or whatever. Yeah,
I mean, they're they're.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Well I find it so interesting because they say and
and Edie says this a lot in that scene. She's like,
you're throwing yourself at Mike. But she's literally standing washing
her car, dumping soapy water all over her in tiny
little shorts. And I find it so funny that Susan
is the one who kind of gets creamed for throwing

(57:13):
herself at him. But I question to the group, are
you a hard to get or a beg to love
kind of person? Oh?

Speaker 2 (57:22):
So Susan's begged to love and the edy is hard
to get.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
I think they're both begging for love, but they seem
to be throwing stones at each other saying well more,
Edie throwing stones at Susan saying you're begging him to
love you. What personally do you feel like you take
a position of to get?

Speaker 5 (57:40):
Baby? Oh?

Speaker 4 (57:41):
Yeah, you guys?

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Are you guys hard to get?

Speaker 5 (57:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (57:45):
I mean I I think so. I think I think
I keep a level of miss mystery, at least initially.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:53):
Yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (57:58):
Would pride myself on it. I mean to a bad degree.
You know, like I so hard to get.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
I never got got.

Speaker 5 (58:05):
Anyone, Yeah, because it was too hard.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
No, but from your belly you got gott.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
But I will say it wasn't until I kind of
dropped that, you know, to to it wasn't until I
dropped the idea that you know, having power meant something
more than it should you know that. Then Look, it's
like anything, right, Vulnerability is really where everything connects, Where
true connection links is being vulnerable.

Speaker 5 (58:31):
And so.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Like these five women, Like that's what I was saying.
I really do think the Edi character rounds it out
because you know she I don't, you know, I guess
so Gabby and Edie both don't have children, but Edie's
not married or is divorced, and and and then Susan

(58:55):
and Lynette and Brie have children, but Susan has a
failed marriage, and you know, the other two like they
all I think you need it. I think you needed
the fifth woman.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
That label represented.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
And I see I see that character as a really
great vehicle to express sexuality and confidence. And because I
don't see that and any I mean, even Gabby is
obviously beautiful and sexual, but it still seems connected to
a man sort of. And I feel like Edie's power

(59:34):
just feels almost just grounded in herself. Yeah, totally, which
is which is very cool of the character and also
of the actress who brought it to I.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
Mean, I really think, yeah, there's so much. There's so
much Nicolette does with that character that makes it, you know,
just makes it so substantial, and like, you know, it
wasn't in the last episode, and I felt her absence.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Oh that's inea. Yeah, yeah, that's interest. Well should we
dig into this?

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Yeah, I've been dying to try this pie, I mean
time for pie. We end? So we end this episode?
How do we? We end with Paul again the mystery
continuing hiring someone because they give him the.

Speaker 4 (01:00:17):
Note, right, because after they listen to the tapes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
They say that we have to give him the note.
He's selling his house. He's selling it for such a
low price.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
You're gonna have to talk about how great this crust is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Go ahead, Oh, she's got a great crust. Ladies and gentlemen,
Oh my god. And yes, we end with him hiring
a private detective of some sort to try to decipher
the note, which I just had this thinking suspicion and
don't tell me as you know, okay, that he knows
what the note is. I don't think he's surprised by

(01:00:46):
the note. And I feel like Lynette says this as well,
but that's just you know, that's for me to see
as the show reveals itself.

Speaker 4 (01:00:52):
Yeah, but it does. It does reveal the fact that
he doesn't he you know, he says that Mary Alice
sent it to herself, and by hiring someone, we're clearly
getting insight that she did not, Yes, which I think
we knew, but now we as an audience get to see, well,
who the heck did?

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Then?

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Yeah, who the heck did?

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
Yeah, Christine Esterbrook, we eat this in your honor?

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
Okay, oh did you put booze?

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
And this is very boosy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
It's a little rum, not a little rum. And it's cooked,
baby cooked, It's totally cooked. There's also really good vanilla.

Speaker 5 (01:01:23):
Is there clove?

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Right? It is? Holiday is right?

Speaker 5 (01:01:30):
I know it's making me.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Ready for I'm desperately devoted to this mince meat.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Which is a thing you thought you would never say,
really something.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
I got to bring that expression back single handedly with
our podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
I'm going to make.

Speaker 4 (01:01:47):
And make mince meat out of someone this way, not
really make mince meat for someone.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
But yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
So, as always, we are desperately devoted to you and
everything that you want to know about about this show
or about relationships, lives, and so thank you for.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
Joining us again. Thanks for right to us. I want
our questions to start coming in. I'm excited to invite
the audience. I know me too well until then.

Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
Until then, see you next time.