November 18, 2025 • 43 mins
Earlier this year, newly minted young workers from the Department of Government Efficiency slashed USAID spending and hobbled the US Institute of Peace. Meanwhile, at the Peace Corps, staffers spent weeks preparing for their own mystery guest from Doge – ensuring that whoever arrived would have computers, a quiet conference room and weekend access, according to public records obtained under FOIA. Special thanks/apologies to Phil Collins, Loverboy, Slayer and Megadeth for this episode’s rich tapestry of musical touchpoints.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Every time I hear Peace Corps.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I have no idea why, but I always think about
Cat Stevens Peace Train.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
On the peace Train.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
I think of the Frank Zeppa song who Needs the
Peace Corps?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Oh, kind of relevant to what we're talking about today.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Play the song. I'm investigative journalist Jason Leopold. I spend
most of my days getting documents from the government.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I'm attorney Matt Tapik, and I fight them in court
to open their files when they don't want to. From
Bloomberg and no smiling, this is Disclosure, a podcast about
buying a loose government secrets, the Freedom of Information Act,
and the unexpected places that takes us.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
So, man, I just want to give you a heads up.
I'm in the office today, but we may be interrupted
by a fire drill, which means that I will immediately
have to exit the office. This is not like I'm
in high school where I'm like fire drill, I'm gone,
no need to return to school. Oh you just went home, then,
I like it. Yeah, I went home. Here, I actually
(01:01):
have to come back to the office. But in the meantime,
we've got Peace Corps to talk about. So back in April,
I saw a headline DOJE eyes cuts to Peace Corps
with in person visit and records access, and I was
like DOGE at the Peace Corps as far as I
was concerned. Two months into the Trump administration, you can
never ask too many questions about what DOGE was up to.
(01:22):
Basically what I started out doing just I don't know.
A week after Trump was sworn in as president, I
immediately began covering Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
DOGE the government is just like the DMV that got big.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
When you say this's have the government do something something,
you should think.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Do you want the DMV to do it?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I've instructed him to go check out education, to check
out the Pentagon, which is the military.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So I was following DOGE at this time, and also
following the individuals who worked with DOGE, young men and
women in tech, many who had work from US. And
what they were doing was season control of these agencies
to essentially dismantle the agencies under the banner of efficiency.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
The administration, and we believe, driven largely by Elen Musk's priorities,
really took a sledgehamber to the work we're doing.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
This is the chainsaw of bureaucracy.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Early targets were the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Department of Education,
the Department of Defense, and especially foreign aid programs programs
like the US Agency for an International Development USAID. In February,
DOGE went in there, and again, when I say Doze,
you have to think of it as four or five kids.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
They called them the Doge kits. They were in their twenties,
have zero experience working.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
In government, went into USAID, took over the agency, and
they gained access to the data. They got a list
of all the contracts, They fired staff, and essentially, piece
by piece, just dismantled this entire agency that's been around
for decades.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
DOSEE cut more.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Than eighty percent of USAID programs, basically overnight, programs for
HIV and AIDS, treatment and prevention, malaria, child healthcare gone.
Thousands of grants and contracts were halted or completely terminated.
And now we're getting an idea that these moves at
USAID are already having a life and death.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Impact around the world.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
One group Impact Counter estimates that the program cuts have
already resulted in more than six hundred thousand deaths around
the world, including more than four hundred thousand children, and
this dismantling took place over weekends, right when no one
was working at these agencies, and there's so much secrecy
around DOGE. So I decided I want to find out
(03:53):
what's going on behind the scenes. And then I saw
this headline in the Guardian on April fourth. Think about it,
it's the Piece Corps. It wasn't like DOGE is going
into the NSA. It was just like really going into
the Peace Corps, Like what's going on there?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
So the very next day, on April fifth, I filed
this request with Peace Corps.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
And you have to remember, let's just go back to April.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It seems like a long time ago, but the public
really wasn't getting an opportunity to visualize what a visit
from DOGE more or less entailed. I mean we kind
of heard bits and pieces of it. You know, they
were going into the agencies and demanding data, but really
what was happening behind the scenes, and I kind of
wanted to capture that through through documents.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, and DOGE transparency is an issue that manifests itself
in lots of different places. I mean, they were taking
the position that they're not subject to FOYA because they're
within the Executive Office the President, and you know that
would largely let them operate in secret while having let's
just call it, a significant impact on the federal government exactly.
So I asked for a whole bunch of different records.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I wanted to get a list of all the DOGE
employees who are onboarded at Peace Corps. One reason for that,
by the way, is that other than a few names,
the identities of those who were connected to DOGE was
a secret, so journalists were kind of scrambling to figure
out who these people were. I asked for a list
(05:22):
of all the words that were banned or prohibited or
restricted from being used at Peace Corps in response to
Trump's DEI executive order, any requests for data that DOGE
had sought, all communications that reference DOGE.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
So what kind of records did you get?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So it didn't take that long for the agency to respond,
but I entered into a negotiation with them, something that
I don't often do, Matt, as you know, because I
wanted to get some records quickly, so I narrowed the
request a bit. I told them that I would accept
these rolling releases right where they can send me documents
every month, and so the first batch of records I
(06:02):
received there were fifty four pages of emails from about
mid February to mid April. And what I got was
a really great snapshot of what it's like to be
inside of an agency waiting for Doge.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Oh, waiting for Goo Doge. So where do we start.
Let's go back to February.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
The Peace Corps headquarters in Washington, DC is a glassy
mid rise in NOMA. Its facade or rippling curtain of
windows inside. I imagine staffers who keep the organization's global
volunteer programs running are following front page news closely as
Doge descends on agencies all around them.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Breaking news are the future of the US Agency for
International Development.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Less than two miles away. On February first, USAID's website
goes dark and staff emails shut down. Staffers were told
not to come into work today at the agency's DC headquarters.
Nine days later, just down the street from USAID, professors.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Gather outside the CFPB's headquarters in DC.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
DOSE shuttered the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau headquarters and demanded
employees stay home.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Do you hear everybody in the background? Let us LART
Doge's engine closer. They're going to put an epa'll put.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
On February twelfth, landing at the Environmental Protection Agency, and
now it's February fourteenth, Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
An email goes out.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
To Peace Corps staffers, and for the first time, doche.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Has entered inboxes at the Peace Corps.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Not literally, this is just the first email about Doge
according to my records. I mean, it kind of cracked
me up a bit because the subject line says Matt,
Welcome Team exercise, and it says team, we will be
running an exercise of our Welcome Team SOP, meaning standard
operating procedure. You will be contacted at some point during
(07:58):
the exercise two simulate the convening of the team to
welcome in simulated Doge team participants hold that hold that way.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'm sorry, I got to unpack this.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
So they know DOGE is going to come at some point, right,
so they have like a designated welcome team. Okay, so
not too strange. But then they're doing drills, drills.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Like the fire drill that I have coming up here, Matt.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
It sounds like what would happen if like the head
of state from another country was coming for a visit,
you would have all these formal protocols and you would
rehearse and all that. And that's what they're doing at
the Peace Corps, getting ready for Doge to come visit.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Right, that's it. I mean, it's remarkable.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I guess it makes sense from the agency's perspective, like
their future existence is on the line here, right, Doge
maybe coming in and wiping them out, So I could
see why they would be taking the visit very seriously.
So who sends the email?
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Do we know?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
While all the recipients and the sender, their names are
redacted under a privacy exemption, I'm not terribly interested in
you in the names. But really, again, I wanted to
get these records and I wanted to try to get
them quickly.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Okay, so you get the welcome DOGE team email. What
else did you get?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
It's more emails about the build up to Doge's arrival.
And so there's another email in here, subject line DOGE
laptop preparation. I'm like, what's that about? Ooh, that's two
weeks later. But this email says see below for the
laptop preparation statements you requested and so there's a couple
(09:40):
of scenarios here. It says scenario one that PC meaning
Peace Corps, receives.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
DOGE names in advance, so if that happens, laptops will
be immediately available to DOGE staff upon arrival at headquarters.
All laptops will be pre configured with the identified software installed,
accounts created, and acts.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
This is granted.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Scenario two, DOJE arrives unannounced, four laptops have been set
aside and pre imaged in preparation of doje's arrival. Upon
receiving the names of the DOG staff, hosting services will
manually create their accounts.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Upon creation of their accounts, the service desk.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Will immediately configure each laptop, load profiles, and install software.
OCIO that's the Office of the Chief Information Officer, will
require ninety minutes from a receipt of the DOGE team
names to laptop prep completion.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
This is amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
This is painting a picture for me not of an
agency that's going to be confrontational with DOGE, but instead
it's going to try to like be as accommodating as possible,
I guess, presumably with the hopes that that will help
them survive. Look how quick we look, we already have
your laptops ready, sir.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Right. To me, it's kind of a it seems like
they're being compliant.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
This is fascinating to me because this is painting a
very clear picture of the impact that DOGE is having
on this particular agency. And I mean, there's whatever people
say publicly, and there's there's a there's there's a line
of FOYA like court decisions that sort of talk about
the idea of like FOYA is really important for people
(11:14):
to understand like what's really going on, to understand whether
there's a difference between what the government is saying publicly
and what the government is saying privately, and that is
a core value that FOYA is supposed to be furthering.
And what you've got here is, I mean, it's vividly
clear how Peace Corps was viewing this, just by seeing
(11:34):
behind the scenes, how they're preparing to deal with.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
It, right, and to be clear, they're not doing anything wrong,
but it's like, wow, you know, look at what they
are doing just to a prepare for their arrival.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I think my own personal view is there is something
wrong with the scenario in which agencies, instead of like
doing their work, are having to obsess over these kinds
of details for fear that they're just going to be
promptly like wiped out. I mean, that's we ought to
know that. I mean, that's a cost that is being paid.
That's an agency that isn't fulfilling its mission. And you know,
the people can dispute whether it's a mission that ought
(12:09):
to be served or not, or whether it's obsolete, and
whether they're doing a good job or not, or whether
we should get rid of them. But the reality is
that the work of Peace Corps was clearly impacted by
having to deal with all this, which shouldn't be surprising,
but it's very vivid to actually see that manifest itself totally.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And so just about a week later, now we're in
March third.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Are the cherry blossoms out? This is this is the
beginning of March. I think this is probably like cherry
blossom time, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, I'm visualizing it.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
So another email subject line DOGE Welcome Team meeting and
again the sender and recipient of these emails those names
are Redactive Peace Corps Welcome Team. The DOGE team has
arrived at Peace Corps headquarters.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
This is not a drill. Please join this welcome team.
Call now, Mac, this is not a drill.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It's not a drill.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
It's not a drill. How many explanation points? No, no
exclamation points, just a period.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So I should say that's my emphasis, but I guess
you could read it this way since there is no
explanation one.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, by the way, speaking of drill, that is an
actual fire drill that's happening right now.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
As this is not a drill, this is this is
not a drill. I literally have to go. I gotta go.
I'm gonna be yelled out.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Okay, I guess we're going to a break now, and
he's back.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Matt. Right before I had a quickly exit for a
fire drill.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
We were talking about these emails, and I actually think
the email that says this is not a drill is
actually a drill because fast forwarding four days later, it
says in the subject line exercise and there's like stars
next to exercise.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Doge team in the building.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So also I said that like read I read this
email as if it had exclamation points, right, and actually
let me let me read it to you without the
explanation points. Exercise. Exercise exercise Peace Corps Welcome Team. The
DOGE team has arrived at Peace Corps headquarters. This is
not a drill. Please joined this welcome team call. Now,
I don't think they were ever going to be excited
(14:14):
to have Doge. They're just like, hey, everyone, Dog is coming.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
This is not a drill. The leader is here. The
leader is here. DOGE team is a run of the
Police Corps headquarters. Okay, this is not a drill. Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So now we're going to jump to a March third email.
This is the same day as This is not a
drill email.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
So the subject line of this email is DOGE access
to PC systems. Now, this is just taking taking that
subject line and you know, kind of building off that.
That is really important because what has been presented as
highly controversial is doge's access to agency data systems databases.
(14:59):
Very is data systems. There have been stories published about
dosh's access to IRS data, to data DHS and other agencies.
So here is an email that says DOJE access to
PC systems. The only name visible here is Joaquin Ferau.
Joaquin is the Inspector General.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Of the Peace Corps.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
The inspector, the Inspector General. He's the person, okay correct?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Joaquin Ferau is the Inspector General, has worked at Peace
Corps for nearly seventeen years, and the email says, Hi, Joaquin,
we compile the list of PC systems and started prepping
the procedures for providing access to them if and when requested.
(15:47):
The question came up as to whether IG systems should
be on that list, meaning the list of systems that
DOGE can gain access to. Nonetheless, I wanted to reach
out to you to determine if IG system should be
included or not. To date, I have not received any
guidance on how this is being handled at any agency.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I appreciate your thoughts on this matter. And what so
I mean?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Inspectors General played, you know, a very important role, a
role that is not unlike the role that DOGE was
purportedly going to be playing, right, And the job of
the OIG is to root out waste, fraud and corruption
in the agencies that they're involved.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
With, right exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
And they're the watchdogs within government agencies that investigate waste,
fraud and abuse, retaliation, harassment, whistleblower complaints. So what in
inspect in inspector general data sets, like what kind of
stuff is going to be in there?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
All they're investigative files.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
So more than seventy government agencies have inspectors general and
so they conduct investigations, they field various complaints, and they'll
conduct interviews, and so the identities of whoever they conducted
interviews with, or if there's any whistleblowers in there, those
will be that will be part of IG files.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So the concern may be that you're giving DOGE access
to information about whistleblowers which might otherwise be protected or
would otherwise be protected.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Right exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
But it's also important to note here that the Trump
administration has fired many inspectors general since January, and the
administration is no fan of oversight. They are trying to
weaken IGS. So it's scrutiny for everyone else and essentially
impunity for us. Right, we're going to come in and
(17:38):
we're going to dissect everything that was happening, but for
anything that happens going forward on our watch, there's no
need for an inspector general to be nosed around causing trouble.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Right, we can do that.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I'm not saying that that has any direct connection here
because no response to that email, or at least if
there is one, it wasn't included in our batch of records.
So the next head of emails that we see March
twenty fifth to twenty six, and it's the first time
that we're seeing a thread from Safety and Security. The
(18:10):
timing of this correspondence is interesting because of what's happening
at the US Institute of Peace, three miles west of
the Peace Corps. Dosh has been trying to take charge
of another agency and one of the more unusual encounters
breaking news about the Department of Government efficiency and the
showdown with the US Institute of Peace. So the US
(18:33):
Institute of Peace was created in nineteen eighty four as
an independent nonprofit funded by Congress. It's sort of a
nonpartisan agency for studying conflicts and how to resolve them.
In the late February, an executive order branded the US
Institute of Peace unnecessary and the administration wanted to dismantle it.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And in mid March, around the time these Peace.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Corpt emails are circulating, a bunch of board members at
the US Institute of Peace are fired and there was
a scuffle DOGE members accompanied by FBI agents to send
on the US Peace building, but they can't get in.
Two days later, FBI agents visit a security employee at
(19:19):
home trying to get access to the US Institute of Piece.
They still can't get in, and finally, on their third attempt.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Doge enters the building by.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Apparently threatening the federal contracts for.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
The outside private security firm that the Institute employees. According
to Politico, and US Institute of Peace employees then call
DC police.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
And report Doge members for unlawful entry.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, I mean this was a big deal.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
The cops show up and to ultimately help Doge take
over the building. So this is sort of a cautionary
tail for what happens to these agencies when they resist
Doge's efforts.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
So Institute for Peace is involved in a exactly that's
what it was. I love it, and this story more
or less suggested it was a standoff. Well, because they
they're like, no, you're not coming in, and they head right,
they became the Institute of Confrontation right.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
And I should note I tried to reach the Institute
for comment and didn't get any response because Doge effectively
shut it down. So Matt these email exchanges are taking
place on the heels of a very public confrontation between
DOGE and the US Institute of Peace. So let's go
(20:38):
back now to the email March twenty fifth from Peace
Corps Safety and Security. And again, this email has a
number of redacted names, but there are a couple that
are unredacted, and those names are Karen Roberts and Nancy
(20:58):
or Bolsheimer, So Matt. Both Nancy and Karen are Trump
appointees from the first Trump administration and have decades of
experience working in Republican administrations and now they're back at
the Peace Corps for Trump two point zero.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
So there it sounds like like what some would call
deep state.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
People borrowed, they burrowed in, they burrowed all right.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Continue and the email says Nancy and Karen redacted reached
out to let me know that you two should be
added to the list of people that get notified in
the event a DOSEE team comes to visit Peace Corps headquarters.
I have the below contact information for you both. If
a team does visit us, we will gather in the
Harris Wafford Conference room on the second floor. I think
(21:43):
this email is really interesting because of what it says
here if a team does visit us, like, are they
unsure if Doge is going to visit Peace Corps and
has this planning that has taken place over the past
month been in preparation for a potential visit. If in fact,
this is just kind of preemptive on the part of
Peace Corps Matt that they have now spent a month
(22:06):
to kind of prepare for Doge's arrival. I mean, holy cow,
look at how much time they're investing. They seem to
be taking a very different approach from Institute for Peace,
who's like, get out of here, your trespassing exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
We don't want to be like us Institute of Fake
Peace that gets into a confrontation with Doge. They're peace posers,
you know. Yeah, they are the hair metal of Peace.
We are the true hardcore.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Members of Peace. We're the slayer of peace. We're the
slayer of peace.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, we're not the def Leppard of Peace.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Okay, So the next email, now we're jumping table third,
and here's where things start to ramp up. Subject line
detail to the Peace Corps, and it says team I
receive two phone calls within five minutes. I wanted to
bring it to your attention. Here's what I know. Phone
call number one names redacted. He is serving as a
senior advice at the US Office of Personnel Management and
(23:03):
introduced himself as a White House liaison. He advised me
that redacted, so his person's name in an email address
will be detailed to the Peace Corps. Phone call number
two and then it says name redacted. Call to get
more details on her onboarding. She expects to be onboarded
tomorrow with a laptop, badge and cell phone, she stated,
(23:25):
who works for GSA and was originally going to be
detailed to USA. She stated, she has directives. I'll be
working with the Peace Corps in a leadership position short term.
But what's notable here is the mention of Office of
Personnel Management and the GSA.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
So the reason I mentioned that is Office Personal Management
is like the government's human resources department, and so many
of the DOGE folks when they were brought into government
that became part of Office of Personal Management before they
were sent out to various agencies, and then GSA was
kind of like one of these first DAIS agencies where
many of them went over to so I think that's
(24:04):
a pretty notable email because it kind of gives us
a sense of what's going on behind the scenes in
the build up toward Doge arriving at.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
The Peace Corps.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Importantly, it's dated April third, twenty twenty five, right, so
this is what is it? A day or two before
I followed my request, and then that evening Karen sends
an email.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
You ready, Matt, I'm ready. I'm excited, Telly Jos's arriving tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
It says Doge will arrive at Peace Corps tomorrow, most
likely early afternoon, will need access to our systems and financials.
She is being lent to Peace Corps, so she will
not be paid by Peace Corps.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
We do not know how long she will be with us.
She'll be working over the weekend. She will let Nancy
or I know her arrival time and we will greet
her on the first floor and take her to see
another person whose name is redacted on the scene second
floor to get her badge so she can get underway.
She will need a computer with access and most likely
will need an office or conference room to work out of.
(25:09):
We gave Valves and a heads up that's Alison Green,
the CEO, and she indicated we would huddle tomorrow morning
to discuss the details and review the plan best Karen
and Nancy, they're getting ready to review the plan.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Does this start to have like an office space kind
of feel to you like it's.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Bob's Yes, it definitely feels that way, particularly like she
will need a conference room. And it's funny because you
know when I was reporting on CFPB, that's that's essentially
where you know, the dog folks hold up like in
a conference room. They papered over the windows in the
conference room, make sure nobody could you know, could peek in.
So then you know the rest of the emails in
(25:46):
this kind of chain. The chief information officer says, I'm
kicking off the support process now and be ready to go,
looking forward to meeting with her, And then you know,
another email thanks Karen. As you know, the office next
to me is a bilbow exclamation point, probably the only
exclamation point that I think we've seen thus far.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Why would there be an exclamation point there?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Like put her here?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
So now we're going to Friday, April fourth, I'm picturing
like if this is a TV show, It's like the
screen flash is like, now it's that date and then
the next day begins.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, this is the moment we've been training for. We've
been training for this moment.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Can they feel it coming in the air tonight or today?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Oh? Give it, we need the drum roll, Matt, you
gotta go over. You're going to Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Can we call it like Peace Corps versus like Death Corps?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Oh? Yeah, DOJ the Death Corps.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I'm eagerly awaiting how this goes. Friday, April fourth, the
day DOJ's schedule to arrive, and around noon, the chief
information officer sends around and know about Joj's arrival. Cooperation
is key.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
The subject line of the email is system point of
com intact access for DOGE team members. When if they arrive,
good morning and happy Friday, Team Peace Corps. See that, Matt,
like that they're embracing that Team Peace Corps or team piece. Yeah,
we will be welcoming the DOGE folks this afternoon. We
(27:17):
have been made aware that they intend to work on
the weekends. You know, I have to do the lover
boy reference.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Everybody is working on the weekend.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yeah, well but that's you've you've completely inverted what that
song is about the line is everybody's working for the weekend.
Isn't it like you're getting your work done on Friday
so you can party on weekend?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Really? Is is that it? I think?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
So?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Oh, you're right, Matt, everybody's working for the weekend. Yeah,
so we have been made aware that they intend to
work on the weekend, so we will need you on standby.
It goes on to say, as discussed, you should be
prepared to do the following to be as helpful as possible.
There's a bulleted list of six very specific constructions, but
(28:01):
this one stood out to me. Under all circumstances, ensure
that clear records are kept on what is requested.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Ensure that clear records are kept on what is requested
and provided to your ad assistant director.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
And that says copying a couple of people. Yeah, yeah,
makes sense.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I mean there, I think there's a lot of sensitivities
around and there have been a lot of disputes about
what is doge entitled to or not right, And this
seems to be saying, if they ask for something, let's
document exactly what they're asking for and let's make sure
it goes up the chain so that they can get
reviewed and approved, and if there's a dispute in the
future about what they're asking for, they want to make
(28:43):
sure that's documented, or if there's a dispute about what
they did access that there's a record of that.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Oh, that's what it sounds like to me.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
So again, they're probably reading the reporting around DOGE at
other agencies gaining access to systems the controversies connected to that,
and are kind of suggesting some proactive steps in the
event that there's request access data systems. And that afternoon,
(29:10):
the DOGE employee arrives a Peace Corps to suss out waste,
fraud and abuse.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
All right, they're finally here.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Here we go. So the emails don't.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Say how the arrival actually went, but I'm imagining Nancy
and Karen greet her on the first floor. They escored
her to the second floor to get her badge, and
then she settles into a conference room with her pre
configured laptop with the identified software installed, just like they plan.
And that evening, we're still on April fourth. Matt, the
(29:41):
Chief Information Office, sends a message to the whole team,
and this is sort of a debrief team. As you
are probably aware, a DOGE employee visited Peace Corps today.
She and a few of her colleagues will be working
here with us over the coming weeks. They will be
sitting in conference Room seventy to eighteen for the duration
of their stay. During their stay with us, please observe
(30:03):
the following. I'm cracking up that some of this are
generalised Rioto Matt. Do not not is in all caps.
Do not walk by the conference room to peek in.
The location was selected for their privacy. Be mindful of
your hallway conversations. Do not not, again in all caps,
discuss their presence outside the agency. Do not share their
(30:26):
names with anyone. Be courteous and respectful of their time.
These folks are professionals with a big job to do
and a narrow window in which to do it. We
want them to be able to do their job safely
and effectively. Your decorum and professionalism is expected. I mean,
do not walk by the conference room to peek in.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
What I'd really like to hear is that read by
the actor who played Tom Wamscan in succession? You back
off this an executive level of business, Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You know I mean It's so funny because every time
some kind of directive is handed down, you know, then
the directive ends up being published by a media outlet.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
But you know, yeah, and this is a big deal,
Like I mean, imposing secrecy and government officials, Like there
is some First Amendment law around this, and you know,
there is a lot the government can do. But like,
these things are restricting government officials' ability to tell the
public about what's going out in the government. Like, isn't
really very democratic in my mind. I mean, there may
be some legitimate reasons, but not to like save.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Embarrassment or to minimize scrutiny.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Well, what would be the legitimate reason to not disclose
that there is a person from the Department of Government
Efficiency there? Why why keep that from the public. We
already know that Department of Government Efficiency exists. We already
know from Trump's executive orders that they are being tasked
(31:52):
with going into various agencies to basically check their books.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
So why the secrecy around them.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I think they're just engaging what politicians forever engage in.
But this is exactly what they'd be criticizing prior administrations
for doing, like information blackouts, controlling the narrative spin. People
are tired of this stuff. It's frustrating to people who
want to understand what the government's up to, and then
like they're trying to keep this kind of stuff secret exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
And to be clear, I'm not weighing in at all
on the partisan politics around this. For me, this is
just about straight up transparency, just finding out what's going
on in real time.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
And I think our record in messing with the Obama
administration and messing with the Biden administration just as much.
I think it speaks for itself, like, this isn't about partisanship,
This isn't about politics. This is about you're the government
and you work for us, And I don't care what
party you're a member of. I don't care what policy
you're trying to further. If you're not willing to do
it in the open, then you don't deserve to be
in government. Everyone should just imagine what would the world
(32:59):
look like if the only thing that ever got reported
in the press is what the government puts in press releases,
in talking points. Nobody wants to live in that world, except,
you know, maybe government officials. So these kinds of things,
they really if they're followed, they have the ability to
just shut down news coverage and make Jason's job more difficult.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
By the way, the emails I received don't name the
DOGE employee, but by evening on April fourth, there was
already a story naming a DOGE employee in The Guardian,
thanks to two people at Peace Corps who anonymously spoke
to her reporter there. They said her name was Bridget Young's.
So much for do not discuss their presence outside of
(33:37):
the agency, right. We don't know much about her, but
it's since been reported that she's twenty nine years old.
According to pro Publica's extensive database of DOGE members, Elon
Musk's demolition crew, as pro Publica called.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Them, it kind of reminds me of the Motorhead song
We Are the Road Crew.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, what else?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
She previously worked as a senior manager at Ramp Charging,
a company that builds electric vehicle charging stations, and that's
according to an archive of her deleted LinkedIn profile. That's
another thing, By the way, many of these folks who
came to work for DOGE just to erase their digital
footprint deleted their social media accounts, and did so in
a way where like you can't even find much of
(34:17):
an archive. But before that she worked at New Energy Capital,
a clean energy investment firm.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
So no government experience.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
That we know of, and now she's coming into the
Peace Corps to you know, do her thing. She was
only there a few hours, but would be back and
there could be more people from DOGE next time.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
She'll be back. She'll be back.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
The following Monday, and email went around to some employees
with a reminder, Hi, quick update. The DOGE team came
in to do an assessment, which is ongoing. They have
done the same at several other agencies that don't make
the press. The only reminder is if we do receive
media requests, to work with the communications team and not
respond independently.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
I'm sorry you're talking about that, but a STFU.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Order, Yeah, have you ever received one of those?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I mean, it's like standard government fair that I've seen,
like both parties, all units of government the like. If
there's a press inquiry, then make sure that it's the
people at the top who can control what's being said.
So you know, that's which is usually nothing right, which
is usually nothing right.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
So what came of this in late April, the Guardian
reported Peace Corps to undergo significant cuts after Doze review.
It reported that the CEO, Alison Green, sent an email
to staff offering them a second Fork in the Road buyout,
the first one being offered by Musk to all government
employees earlier this year. Employees had seven business days to decide.
(35:50):
Then in August of this year, the Peace Corps announced
a shuffle in senior leadership. CEO Alison Green, among others,
step down to quote pave the way for a new
leadership team and guide the organizational transformations that will make
Peace Corps stronger and more efficient in the long run.
Karen Roberts stepped up as the acting chief of staff
(36:11):
until the administration selected someone else, which they did in September.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
So we know about some buyouts.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
And a staff shuffle, but we're still waiting to learn
exactly how many cuts were made. So far, this doesn't
look like it's as severe as the US Institute for
Peace or US eight. I tried to reach Bridget Young's
and didn't get a response, But right before we published,
the Peace Corps sent us this comment about Doge's visit,
(36:37):
which they said took place in April and may quote.
Peace Corps and DOGE staff work together respectfully and professionally
to complete the audits in a timely manner. They added
this about the cuts. Following the review, the agency determined
that certain positions could be reduced to carry out the
mission more efficiently without any impact on volunteer safety and security, health,
(37:00):
medical care, or quality of service. Peace Corps offered staff
members a deferred resignation program option. In addition, the agency
reduced oversees local higher contractors. The Peace Corps continues to
support it's currently serving volunteers as health, safety and security,
and effective service, and continues to recruit, place and train
(37:22):
new volunteers.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
So, Jason, you said you wanted an opportunity to visualize
what a visit from DOGE entailed and hope to capture
that through documents. Did the documents answer your questions?
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Oh? Totally.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
These documents really gave us a behind the scenes look
at the planning. In some cases, the fear, the anxiety
that was circulating right before Dog's visit. And I do
think that it gives us a visualization of what was
happening inside Peace Corps right before DOJ was coming in.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Was fascinating to me in obtaining.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
These records is the level of detail, the fact that
they were planning for two months leading up to the
arrival at Peace Corps, the drills that were taking place.
I want the public to feel like they're a fly
on the wall and are right there when all of
this is taking place. So I think the documents are fascinating.
(38:25):
I want more. I want more of these documents. And
as I mentioned Matt, this is just the kind of
first interim release that we received after I negotiated with
the agency.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
And I think it shows the impact that DOGE, in
the way it went about doing what it's doing, had
on the operations of government. I think to some extent,
it also shows how much the federal bureaucracy doesn't want
to change. That it's resistant to anyone coming in and
reviewing their operations and potentially finding that they're doing things
(38:57):
that aren't consistent with policy directives of this administration, or
that are inefficient, or whatever it may be. And so like,
I don't want to leave the impression, at least for myself,
that this is like DOGE is bad and the agencies
are good. I think the idea of what DOGE was
supposed to be doing is not a bad one. And
I think that agencies, to the extent they weren't cooperating,
were probably in many instances being motivated by their own
(39:20):
self preservation, which isn't necessarily consistent with a broader public interest.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
True, and as I mentioned earlier, Matt, you know, this
is the job that inspectors General would perform for the
most part, looking into waste fraud and abuse, for example,
labor mischarging. That is what the watchdogs, the internal watch
dogs historically have done. But you can't get away from
(39:45):
the fact that there's a political agenda here. And with
agencies like USAID that were identified by Project twenty twenty five,
the reason was not so much much about waste fraud
and abuse, but the political and ideological associations with the
(40:07):
programs that, for example, USA Idea was funding. Project twenty
twenty five was essentially trying to make the case that
the US was funding abortion.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
So, you know, Jason, I feel like I haven't heard
a ton lately about what's going on at DOGE, Like
what is going on these days? Well, dog is largely
faded from public view. Many of the DOJE employees, like
Bridget Youngs, they either became permanent government employees. They are
now attached to a specific agency or they left.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I mean Elon Musk is gone. So the whole sort
of idea of DOGE taking an act to these agencies,
I mean they first six months of the year, that's
what they did, but then it just completely faded. But
they still exist US DOZE Service is still an entity,
and as it relates to the Foyer, there's still a fight,
(40:57):
you know, to get those records. But for the most
part are those who were attached to DOGE are now
part of the government bureaucracy within other agencies. But yeah,
DOGE is not headline news the way it was for
the first six months of the year.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Well, you know, Jason, you know what they say about
peace right.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Peace sells, but who's buying peace? And but who's buying Oh.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
That's perfect, you put a price on piece. I think
Megadeth is about to do like a final tour, right
they are final tour with Iron Maiden. We're going we're
getting backstage and we're going to interview Davi mis Staine.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
About all this. What do you think I'm broke?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
What a classic line? Better work biz Time from Bloomberg
and No Smiling. This is Disclosure.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
The show is hosted by Matt Topik and me Jason Leopold.
It's produced by Heather Schroing and Sean Cannon for No Smiling.
Our editor for Bloomberg is Jeff Grocott. Our executive producers
for Bloomberg are Sagebauman and me Jason Leopold, and our
executive producers for No Smiling are Sean Cannon, Heather Schrowing
and Matt Topic. The Disclosure theme song is by Nick,
(42:12):
with additional music by Nick and Epidemic Sound.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Sound design and mixing is by Sean Cannon.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
For more transparency news and important document thumps, you can
subscribe to my Weeklyfoya Files newsletter at Bloomberg dot com
slash Foya Files. That's Foia Files. To get every episode
early on Apple Podcasts. Become a Bloomberg dot com subscriber today.
Check out our special intro offer right now at Bloomberg
(42:39):
dot com Slash podcast offer.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Or click the link in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
You'll also unlock deep reporting data and analysis from reporters
around the world.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
We'll see you again next Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
What do you mean I can't get to work on time?
Got nothing better? To do a new way,
Every time I hear Peace Corps.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I have no idea why, but I always think about
Cat Stevens Peace Train.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
On the peace Train.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
I think of the Frank Zeppa song who Needs the
Peace Corps?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Oh, kind of relevant to what we're talking about today.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Play the song. I'm investigative journalist Jason Leopold. I spend
most of my days getting documents from the government.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
I'm attorney Matt Tapik, and I fight them in court
to open their files when they don't want to. From
Bloomberg and no smiling, this is Disclosure, a podcast about
buying a loose government secrets, the Freedom of Information Act,
and the unexpected places that takes us.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
So, man, I just want to give you a heads up.
I'm in the office today, but we may be interrupted
by a fire drill, which means that I will immediately
have to exit the office. This is not like I'm
in high school where I'm like fire drill, I'm gone,
no need to return to school. Oh you just went home, then,
I like it. Yeah, I went home. Here, I actually
(01:01):
have to come back to the office. But in the meantime,
we've got Peace Corps to talk about. So back in April,
I saw a headline DOJE eyes cuts to Peace Corps
with in person visit and records access, and I was
like DOGE at the Peace Corps as far as I
was concerned. Two months into the Trump administration, you can
never ask too many questions about what DOGE was up to.
(01:22):
Basically what I started out doing just I don't know.
A week after Trump was sworn in as president, I
immediately began covering Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
DOGE the government is just like the DMV that got big.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
When you say this's have the government do something something,
you should think.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Do you want the DMV to do it?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
I've instructed him to go check out education, to check
out the Pentagon, which is the military.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So I was following DOGE at this time, and also
following the individuals who worked with DOGE, young men and
women in tech, many who had work from US. And
what they were doing was season control of these agencies
to essentially dismantle the agencies under the banner of efficiency.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
The administration, and we believe, driven largely by Elen Musk's priorities,
really took a sledgehamber to the work we're doing.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
This is the chainsaw of bureaucracy.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Early targets were the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Department of Education,
the Department of Defense, and especially foreign aid programs programs
like the US Agency for an International Development USAID. In February,
DOGE went in there, and again, when I say Doze,
you have to think of it as four or five kids.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
They called them the Doge kits. They were in their twenties,
have zero experience working.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
In government, went into USAID, took over the agency, and
they gained access to the data. They got a list
of all the contracts, They fired staff, and essentially, piece
by piece, just dismantled this entire agency that's been around
for decades.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
DOSEE cut more.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Than eighty percent of USAID programs, basically overnight, programs for
HIV and AIDS, treatment and prevention, malaria, child healthcare gone.
Thousands of grants and contracts were halted or completely terminated.
And now we're getting an idea that these moves at
USAID are already having a life and death.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Impact around the world.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
One group Impact Counter estimates that the program cuts have
already resulted in more than six hundred thousand deaths around
the world, including more than four hundred thousand children, and
this dismantling took place over weekends, right when no one
was working at these agencies, and there's so much secrecy
around DOGE. So I decided I want to find out
(03:53):
what's going on behind the scenes. And then I saw
this headline in the Guardian on April fourth. Think about it,
it's the Piece Corps. It wasn't like DOGE is going
into the NSA. It was just like really going into
the Peace Corps, Like what's going on there?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
So the very next day, on April fifth, I filed
this request with Peace Corps.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
And you have to remember, let's just go back to April.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It seems like a long time ago, but the public
really wasn't getting an opportunity to visualize what a visit
from DOGE more or less entailed. I mean we kind
of heard bits and pieces of it. You know, they
were going into the agencies and demanding data, but really
what was happening behind the scenes, and I kind of
wanted to capture that through through documents.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, and DOGE transparency is an issue that manifests itself
in lots of different places. I mean, they were taking
the position that they're not subject to FOYA because they're
within the Executive Office the President, and you know that
would largely let them operate in secret while having let's
just call it, a significant impact on the federal government exactly.
So I asked for a whole bunch of different records.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I wanted to get a list of all the DOGE
employees who are onboarded at Peace Corps. One reason for that,
by the way, is that other than a few names,
the identities of those who were connected to DOGE was
a secret, so journalists were kind of scrambling to figure
out who these people were. I asked for a list
(05:22):
of all the words that were banned or prohibited or
restricted from being used at Peace Corps in response to
Trump's DEI executive order, any requests for data that DOGE
had sought, all communications that reference DOGE.
Speaker 3 (05:37):
So what kind of records did you get?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
So it didn't take that long for the agency to respond,
but I entered into a negotiation with them, something that
I don't often do, Matt, as you know, because I
wanted to get some records quickly, so I narrowed the
request a bit. I told them that I would accept
these rolling releases right where they can send me documents
every month, and so the first batch of records I
(06:02):
received there were fifty four pages of emails from about
mid February to mid April. And what I got was
a really great snapshot of what it's like to be
inside of an agency waiting for Doge.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Oh, waiting for Goo Doge. So where do we start.
Let's go back to February.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
The Peace Corps headquarters in Washington, DC is a glassy
mid rise in NOMA. Its facade or rippling curtain of
windows inside. I imagine staffers who keep the organization's global
volunteer programs running are following front page news closely as
Doge descends on agencies all around them.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Breaking news are the future of the US Agency for
International Development.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Less than two miles away. On February first, USAID's website
goes dark and staff emails shut down. Staffers were told
not to come into work today at the agency's DC headquarters.
Nine days later, just down the street from USAID, professors.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Gather outside the CFPB's headquarters in DC.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
DOSE shuttered the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau headquarters and demanded
employees stay home.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Do you hear everybody in the background? Let us LART
Doge's engine closer. They're going to put an epa'll put.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
On February twelfth, landing at the Environmental Protection Agency, and
now it's February fourteenth, Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
An email goes out.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
To Peace Corps staffers, and for the first time, doche.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Has entered inboxes at the Peace Corps.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Not literally, this is just the first email about Doge
according to my records. I mean, it kind of cracked
me up a bit because the subject line says Matt,
Welcome Team exercise, and it says team, we will be
running an exercise of our Welcome Team SOP, meaning standard
operating procedure. You will be contacted at some point during
(07:58):
the exercise two simulate the convening of the team to
welcome in simulated Doge team participants hold that hold that way.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'm sorry, I got to unpack this.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
So they know DOGE is going to come at some point, right,
so they have like a designated welcome team. Okay, so
not too strange. But then they're doing drills, drills.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Like the fire drill that I have coming up here, Matt.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
It sounds like what would happen if like the head
of state from another country was coming for a visit,
you would have all these formal protocols and you would
rehearse and all that. And that's what they're doing at
the Peace Corps, getting ready for Doge to come visit.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Right, that's it. I mean, it's remarkable.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I guess it makes sense from the agency's perspective, like
their future existence is on the line here, right, Doge
maybe coming in and wiping them out, So I could
see why they would be taking the visit very seriously.
So who sends the email?
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Do we know?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
While all the recipients and the sender, their names are
redacted under a privacy exemption, I'm not terribly interested in
you in the names. But really, again, I wanted to
get these records and I wanted to try to get
them quickly.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Okay, so you get the welcome DOGE team email. What
else did you get?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
It's more emails about the build up to Doge's arrival.
And so there's another email in here, subject line DOGE
laptop preparation. I'm like, what's that about? Ooh, that's two
weeks later. But this email says see below for the
laptop preparation statements you requested and so there's a couple
(09:40):
of scenarios here. It says scenario one that PC meaning
Peace Corps, receives.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
DOGE names in advance, so if that happens, laptops will
be immediately available to DOGE staff upon arrival at headquarters.
All laptops will be pre configured with the identified software installed,
accounts created, and acts.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
This is granted.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Scenario two, DOJE arrives unannounced, four laptops have been set
aside and pre imaged in preparation of doje's arrival. Upon
receiving the names of the DOG staff, hosting services will
manually create their accounts.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Upon creation of their accounts, the service desk.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Will immediately configure each laptop, load profiles, and install software.
OCIO that's the Office of the Chief Information Officer, will
require ninety minutes from a receipt of the DOGE team
names to laptop prep completion.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
This is amazing.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
This is painting a picture for me not of an
agency that's going to be confrontational with DOGE, but instead
it's going to try to like be as accommodating as possible,
I guess, presumably with the hopes that that will help
them survive. Look how quick we look, we already have
your laptops ready, sir.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Right. To me, it's kind of a it seems like
they're being compliant.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
This is fascinating to me because this is painting a
very clear picture of the impact that DOGE is having
on this particular agency. And I mean, there's whatever people
say publicly, and there's there's a there's there's a line
of FOYA like court decisions that sort of talk about
the idea of like FOYA is really important for people
(11:14):
to understand like what's really going on, to understand whether
there's a difference between what the government is saying publicly
and what the government is saying privately, and that is
a core value that FOYA is supposed to be furthering.
And what you've got here is, I mean, it's vividly
clear how Peace Corps was viewing this, just by seeing
(11:34):
behind the scenes, how they're preparing to deal with.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
It, right, and to be clear, they're not doing anything wrong,
but it's like, wow, you know, look at what they
are doing just to a prepare for their arrival.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I think my own personal view is there is something
wrong with the scenario in which agencies, instead of like
doing their work, are having to obsess over these kinds
of details for fear that they're just going to be
promptly like wiped out. I mean, that's we ought to
know that. I mean, that's a cost that is being paid.
That's an agency that isn't fulfilling its mission. And you know,
the people can dispute whether it's a mission that ought
(12:09):
to be served or not, or whether it's obsolete, and
whether they're doing a good job or not, or whether
we should get rid of them. But the reality is
that the work of Peace Corps was clearly impacted by
having to deal with all this, which shouldn't be surprising,
but it's very vivid to actually see that manifest itself totally.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And so just about a week later, now we're in
March third.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Are the cherry blossoms out? This is this is the
beginning of March. I think this is probably like cherry
blossom time, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, I'm visualizing it.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
So another email subject line DOGE Welcome Team meeting and
again the sender and recipient of these emails those names
are Redactive Peace Corps Welcome Team. The DOGE team has
arrived at Peace Corps headquarters.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
This is not a drill. Please join this welcome team.
Call now, Mac, this is not a drill.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
It's not a drill.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
It's not a drill. How many explanation points? No, no
exclamation points, just a period.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So I should say that's my emphasis, but I guess
you could read it this way since there is no
explanation one.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Well, by the way, speaking of drill, that is an
actual fire drill that's happening right now.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
As this is not a drill, this is this is
not a drill. I literally have to go. I gotta go.
I'm gonna be yelled out.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
Okay, I guess we're going to a break now, and
he's back.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Matt. Right before I had a quickly exit for a
fire drill.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
We were talking about these emails, and I actually think
the email that says this is not a drill is
actually a drill because fast forwarding four days later, it
says in the subject line exercise and there's like stars
next to exercise.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Doge team in the building.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
So also I said that like read I read this
email as if it had exclamation points, right, and actually
let me let me read it to you without the
explanation points. Exercise. Exercise exercise Peace Corps Welcome Team. The
DOGE team has arrived at Peace Corps headquarters. This is
not a drill. Please joined this welcome team call. Now,
I don't think they were ever going to be excited
(14:14):
to have Doge. They're just like, hey, everyone, Dog is coming.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
This is not a drill. The leader is here. The
leader is here. DOGE team is a run of the
Police Corps headquarters. Okay, this is not a drill. Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
So now we're going to jump to a March third email.
This is the same day as This is not a
drill email.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
So the subject line of this email is DOGE access
to PC systems. Now, this is just taking taking that
subject line and you know, kind of building off that.
That is really important because what has been presented as
highly controversial is doge's access to agency data systems databases.
(14:59):
Very is data systems. There have been stories published about
dosh's access to IRS data, to data DHS and other agencies.
So here is an email that says DOJE access to
PC systems. The only name visible here is Joaquin Ferau.
Joaquin is the Inspector General.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Of the Peace Corps.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
The inspector, the Inspector General. He's the person, okay correct?
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Joaquin Ferau is the Inspector General, has worked at Peace
Corps for nearly seventeen years, and the email says, Hi, Joaquin,
we compile the list of PC systems and started prepping
the procedures for providing access to them if and when requested.
(15:47):
The question came up as to whether IG systems should
be on that list, meaning the list of systems that
DOGE can gain access to. Nonetheless, I wanted to reach
out to you to determine if IG system should be
included or not. To date, I have not received any
guidance on how this is being handled at any agency.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I appreciate your thoughts on this matter. And what so
I mean?
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Inspectors General played, you know, a very important role, a
role that is not unlike the role that DOGE was
purportedly going to be playing, right, And the job of
the OIG is to root out waste, fraud and corruption
in the agencies that they're involved.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
With, right exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
And they're the watchdogs within government agencies that investigate waste,
fraud and abuse, retaliation, harassment, whistleblower complaints. So what in
inspect in inspector general data sets, like what kind of
stuff is going to be in there?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
All they're investigative files.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
So more than seventy government agencies have inspectors general and
so they conduct investigations, they field various complaints, and they'll
conduct interviews, and so the identities of whoever they conducted
interviews with, or if there's any whistleblowers in there, those
will be that will be part of IG files.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So the concern may be that you're giving DOGE access
to information about whistleblowers which might otherwise be protected or
would otherwise be protected.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Right exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
But it's also important to note here that the Trump
administration has fired many inspectors general since January, and the
administration is no fan of oversight. They are trying to
weaken IGS. So it's scrutiny for everyone else and essentially
impunity for us. Right, we're going to come in and
(17:38):
we're going to dissect everything that was happening, but for
anything that happens going forward on our watch, there's no
need for an inspector general to be nosed around causing trouble.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Right, we can do that.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
I'm not saying that that has any direct connection here
because no response to that email, or at least if
there is one, it wasn't included in our batch of records.
So the next head of emails that we see March
twenty fifth to twenty six, and it's the first time
that we're seeing a thread from Safety and Security. The
(18:10):
timing of this correspondence is interesting because of what's happening
at the US Institute of Peace, three miles west of
the Peace Corps. Dosh has been trying to take charge
of another agency and one of the more unusual encounters
breaking news about the Department of Government efficiency and the
showdown with the US Institute of Peace. So the US
(18:33):
Institute of Peace was created in nineteen eighty four as
an independent nonprofit funded by Congress. It's sort of a
nonpartisan agency for studying conflicts and how to resolve them.
In the late February, an executive order branded the US
Institute of Peace unnecessary and the administration wanted to dismantle it.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And in mid March, around the time these Peace.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Corpt emails are circulating, a bunch of board members at
the US Institute of Peace are fired and there was
a scuffle DOGE members accompanied by FBI agents to send
on the US Peace building, but they can't get in.
Two days later, FBI agents visit a security employee at
(19:19):
home trying to get access to the US Institute of Piece.
They still can't get in, and finally, on their third attempt.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Doge enters the building by.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Apparently threatening the federal contracts for.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
The outside private security firm that the Institute employees. According
to Politico, and US Institute of Peace employees then call
DC police.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
And report Doge members for unlawful entry.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, I mean this was a big deal.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
The cops show up and to ultimately help Doge take
over the building. So this is sort of a cautionary
tail for what happens to these agencies when they resist
Doge's efforts.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
So Institute for Peace is involved in a exactly that's
what it was. I love it, and this story more
or less suggested it was a standoff. Well, because they
they're like, no, you're not coming in, and they head right,
they became the Institute of Confrontation right.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
And I should note I tried to reach the Institute
for comment and didn't get any response because Doge effectively
shut it down. So Matt these email exchanges are taking
place on the heels of a very public confrontation between
DOGE and the US Institute of Peace. So let's go
(20:38):
back now to the email March twenty fifth from Peace
Corps Safety and Security. And again, this email has a
number of redacted names, but there are a couple that
are unredacted, and those names are Karen Roberts and Nancy
(20:58):
or Bolsheimer, So Matt. Both Nancy and Karen are Trump
appointees from the first Trump administration and have decades of
experience working in Republican administrations and now they're back at
the Peace Corps for Trump two point zero.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
So there it sounds like like what some would call
deep state.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
People borrowed, they burrowed in, they burrowed all right.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Continue and the email says Nancy and Karen redacted reached
out to let me know that you two should be
added to the list of people that get notified in
the event a DOSEE team comes to visit Peace Corps headquarters.
I have the below contact information for you both. If
a team does visit us, we will gather in the
Harris Wafford Conference room on the second floor. I think
(21:43):
this email is really interesting because of what it says
here if a team does visit us, like, are they
unsure if Doge is going to visit Peace Corps and
has this planning that has taken place over the past
month been in preparation for a potential visit. If in fact,
this is just kind of preemptive on the part of
Peace Corps Matt that they have now spent a month
(22:06):
to kind of prepare for Doge's arrival. I mean, holy cow,
look at how much time they're investing. They seem to
be taking a very different approach from Institute for Peace,
who's like, get out of here, your trespassing exactly.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
We don't want to be like us Institute of Fake
Peace that gets into a confrontation with Doge. They're peace posers,
you know. Yeah, they are the hair metal of Peace.
We are the true hardcore.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Members of Peace. We're the slayer of peace. We're the
slayer of peace.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, we're not the def Leppard of Peace.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Okay, So the next email, now we're jumping table third,
and here's where things start to ramp up. Subject line
detail to the Peace Corps, and it says team I
receive two phone calls within five minutes. I wanted to
bring it to your attention. Here's what I know. Phone
call number one names redacted. He is serving as a
senior advice at the US Office of Personnel Management and
(23:03):
introduced himself as a White House liaison. He advised me
that redacted, so his person's name in an email address
will be detailed to the Peace Corps. Phone call number
two and then it says name redacted. Call to get
more details on her onboarding. She expects to be onboarded
tomorrow with a laptop, badge and cell phone, she stated,
(23:25):
who works for GSA and was originally going to be
detailed to USA. She stated, she has directives. I'll be
working with the Peace Corps in a leadership position short term.
But what's notable here is the mention of Office of
Personnel Management and the GSA.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
So the reason I mentioned that is Office Personal Management
is like the government's human resources department, and so many
of the DOGE folks when they were brought into government
that became part of Office of Personal Management before they
were sent out to various agencies, and then GSA was
kind of like one of these first DAIS agencies where
many of them went over to so I think that's
(24:04):
a pretty notable email because it kind of gives us
a sense of what's going on behind the scenes in
the build up toward Doge arriving at.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
The Peace Corps.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Importantly, it's dated April third, twenty twenty five, right, so
this is what is it? A day or two before
I followed my request, and then that evening Karen sends
an email.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
You ready, Matt, I'm ready. I'm excited, Telly Jos's arriving tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
It says Doge will arrive at Peace Corps tomorrow, most
likely early afternoon, will need access to our systems and financials.
She is being lent to Peace Corps, so she will
not be paid by Peace Corps.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
We do not know how long she will be with us.
She'll be working over the weekend. She will let Nancy
or I know her arrival time and we will greet
her on the first floor and take her to see
another person whose name is redacted on the scene second
floor to get her badge so she can get underway.
She will need a computer with access and most likely
will need an office or conference room to work out of.
(25:09):
We gave Valves and a heads up that's Alison Green,
the CEO, and she indicated we would huddle tomorrow morning
to discuss the details and review the plan best Karen
and Nancy, they're getting ready to review the plan.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Does this start to have like an office space kind
of feel to you like it's.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Bob's Yes, it definitely feels that way, particularly like she
will need a conference room. And it's funny because you
know when I was reporting on CFPB, that's that's essentially
where you know, the dog folks hold up like in
a conference room. They papered over the windows in the
conference room, make sure nobody could you know, could peek in.
So then you know the rest of the emails in
(25:46):
this kind of chain. The chief information officer says, I'm
kicking off the support process now and be ready to go,
looking forward to meeting with her, And then you know,
another email thanks Karen. As you know, the office next
to me is a bilbow exclamation point, probably the only
exclamation point that I think we've seen thus far.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Why would there be an exclamation point there?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Like put her here?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
So now we're going to Friday, April fourth, I'm picturing
like if this is a TV show, It's like the
screen flash is like, now it's that date and then
the next day begins.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, this is the moment we've been training for. We've
been training for this moment.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Can they feel it coming in the air tonight or today?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Oh? Give it, we need the drum roll, Matt, you
gotta go over. You're going to Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Can we call it like Peace Corps versus like Death Corps?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Oh? Yeah, DOJ the Death Corps.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I'm eagerly awaiting how this goes. Friday, April fourth, the
day DOJ's schedule to arrive, and around noon, the chief
information officer sends around and know about Joj's arrival. Cooperation
is key.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
The subject line of the email is system point of
com intact access for DOGE team members. When if they arrive,
good morning and happy Friday, Team Peace Corps. See that, Matt,
like that they're embracing that Team Peace Corps or team piece. Yeah,
we will be welcoming the DOGE folks this afternoon. We
(27:17):
have been made aware that they intend to work on
the weekends. You know, I have to do the lover
boy reference.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Everybody is working on the weekend.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yeah, well but that's you've you've completely inverted what that
song is about the line is everybody's working for the weekend.
Isn't it like you're getting your work done on Friday
so you can party on weekend?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Really? Is is that it? I think?
Speaker 3 (27:40):
So?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Oh, you're right, Matt, everybody's working for the weekend. Yeah,
so we have been made aware that they intend to
work on the weekend, so we will need you on standby.
It goes on to say, as discussed, you should be
prepared to do the following to be as helpful as possible.
There's a bulleted list of six very specific constructions, but
(28:01):
this one stood out to me. Under all circumstances, ensure
that clear records are kept on what is requested.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Ensure that clear records are kept on what is requested
and provided to your ad assistant director.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
And that says copying a couple of people. Yeah, yeah,
makes sense.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I mean there, I think there's a lot of sensitivities
around and there have been a lot of disputes about
what is doge entitled to or not right, And this
seems to be saying, if they ask for something, let's
document exactly what they're asking for and let's make sure
it goes up the chain so that they can get
reviewed and approved, and if there's a dispute in the
future about what they're asking for, they want to make
(28:43):
sure that's documented, or if there's a dispute about what
they did access that there's a record of that.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Oh, that's what it sounds like to me.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
So again, they're probably reading the reporting around DOGE at
other agencies gaining access to systems the controversies connected to that,
and are kind of suggesting some proactive steps in the
event that there's request access data systems. And that afternoon,
(29:10):
the DOGE employee arrives a Peace Corps to suss out waste,
fraud and abuse.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
All right, they're finally here.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Here we go. So the emails don't.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Say how the arrival actually went, but I'm imagining Nancy
and Karen greet her on the first floor. They escored
her to the second floor to get her badge, and
then she settles into a conference room with her pre
configured laptop with the identified software installed, just like they plan.
And that evening, we're still on April fourth. Matt, the
(29:41):
Chief Information Office, sends a message to the whole team,
and this is sort of a debrief team. As you
are probably aware, a DOGE employee visited Peace Corps today.
She and a few of her colleagues will be working
here with us over the coming weeks. They will be
sitting in conference Room seventy to eighteen for the duration
of their stay. During their stay with us, please observe
(30:03):
the following. I'm cracking up that some of this are
generalised Rioto Matt. Do not not is in all caps.
Do not walk by the conference room to peek in.
The location was selected for their privacy. Be mindful of
your hallway conversations. Do not not, again in all caps,
discuss their presence outside the agency. Do not share their
(30:26):
names with anyone. Be courteous and respectful of their time.
These folks are professionals with a big job to do
and a narrow window in which to do it. We
want them to be able to do their job safely
and effectively. Your decorum and professionalism is expected. I mean,
do not walk by the conference room to peek in.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
What I'd really like to hear is that read by
the actor who played Tom Wamscan in succession? You back
off this an executive level of business, Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You know I mean It's so funny because every time
some kind of directive is handed down, you know, then
the directive ends up being published by a media outlet.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
But you know, yeah, and this is a big deal,
Like I mean, imposing secrecy and government officials, Like there
is some First Amendment law around this, and you know,
there is a lot the government can do. But like,
these things are restricting government officials' ability to tell the
public about what's going out in the government. Like, isn't
really very democratic in my mind. I mean, there may
be some legitimate reasons, but not to like save.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Embarrassment or to minimize scrutiny.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Well, what would be the legitimate reason to not disclose
that there is a person from the Department of Government
Efficiency there? Why why keep that from the public. We
already know that Department of Government Efficiency exists. We already
know from Trump's executive orders that they are being tasked
(31:52):
with going into various agencies to basically check their books.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
So why the secrecy around them.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
I think they're just engaging what politicians forever engage in.
But this is exactly what they'd be criticizing prior administrations
for doing, like information blackouts, controlling the narrative spin. People
are tired of this stuff. It's frustrating to people who
want to understand what the government's up to, and then
like they're trying to keep this kind of stuff secret exactly.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
And to be clear, I'm not weighing in at all
on the partisan politics around this. For me, this is
just about straight up transparency, just finding out what's going
on in real time.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
And I think our record in messing with the Obama
administration and messing with the Biden administration just as much.
I think it speaks for itself, like, this isn't about partisanship,
This isn't about politics. This is about you're the government
and you work for us, And I don't care what
party you're a member of. I don't care what policy
you're trying to further. If you're not willing to do
it in the open, then you don't deserve to be
in government. Everyone should just imagine what would the world
(32:59):
look like if the only thing that ever got reported
in the press is what the government puts in press releases,
in talking points. Nobody wants to live in that world, except,
you know, maybe government officials. So these kinds of things,
they really if they're followed, they have the ability to
just shut down news coverage and make Jason's job more difficult.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
By the way, the emails I received don't name the
DOGE employee, but by evening on April fourth, there was
already a story naming a DOGE employee in The Guardian,
thanks to two people at Peace Corps who anonymously spoke
to her reporter there. They said her name was Bridget Young's.
So much for do not discuss their presence outside of
(33:37):
the agency, right. We don't know much about her, but
it's since been reported that she's twenty nine years old.
According to pro Publica's extensive database of DOGE members, Elon
Musk's demolition crew, as pro Publica called.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Them, it kind of reminds me of the Motorhead song
We Are the Road Crew.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, what else?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
She previously worked as a senior manager at Ramp Charging,
a company that builds electric vehicle charging stations, and that's
according to an archive of her deleted LinkedIn profile. That's
another thing, By the way, many of these folks who
came to work for DOGE just to erase their digital
footprint deleted their social media accounts, and did so in
a way where like you can't even find much of
(34:17):
an archive. But before that she worked at New Energy Capital,
a clean energy investment firm.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
So no government experience.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
That we know of, and now she's coming into the
Peace Corps to you know, do her thing. She was
only there a few hours, but would be back and
there could be more people from DOGE next time.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
She'll be back. She'll be back.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
The following Monday, and email went around to some employees
with a reminder, Hi, quick update. The DOGE team came
in to do an assessment, which is ongoing. They have
done the same at several other agencies that don't make
the press. The only reminder is if we do receive
media requests, to work with the communications team and not
respond independently.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
I'm sorry you're talking about that, but a STFU.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Order, Yeah, have you ever received one of those?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I mean, it's like standard government fair that I've seen,
like both parties, all units of government the like. If
there's a press inquiry, then make sure that it's the
people at the top who can control what's being said.
So you know, that's which is usually nothing right, which
is usually nothing right.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
So what came of this in late April, the Guardian
reported Peace Corps to undergo significant cuts after Doze review.
It reported that the CEO, Alison Green, sent an email
to staff offering them a second Fork in the Road buyout,
the first one being offered by Musk to all government
employees earlier this year. Employees had seven business days to decide.
(35:50):
Then in August of this year, the Peace Corps announced
a shuffle in senior leadership. CEO Alison Green, among others,
step down to quote pave the way for a new
leadership team and guide the organizational transformations that will make
Peace Corps stronger and more efficient in the long run.
Karen Roberts stepped up as the acting chief of staff
(36:11):
until the administration selected someone else, which they did in September.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
So we know about some buyouts.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
And a staff shuffle, but we're still waiting to learn
exactly how many cuts were made. So far, this doesn't
look like it's as severe as the US Institute for
Peace or US eight. I tried to reach Bridget Young's
and didn't get a response, But right before we published,
the Peace Corps sent us this comment about Doge's visit,
(36:37):
which they said took place in April and may quote.
Peace Corps and DOGE staff work together respectfully and professionally
to complete the audits in a timely manner. They added
this about the cuts. Following the review, the agency determined
that certain positions could be reduced to carry out the
mission more efficiently without any impact on volunteer safety and security, health,
(37:00):
medical care, or quality of service. Peace Corps offered staff
members a deferred resignation program option. In addition, the agency
reduced oversees local higher contractors. The Peace Corps continues to
support it's currently serving volunteers as health, safety and security,
and effective service, and continues to recruit, place and train
(37:22):
new volunteers.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
So, Jason, you said you wanted an opportunity to visualize
what a visit from DOGE entailed and hope to capture
that through documents. Did the documents answer your questions?
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Oh? Totally.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
These documents really gave us a behind the scenes look
at the planning. In some cases, the fear, the anxiety
that was circulating right before Dog's visit. And I do
think that it gives us a visualization of what was
happening inside Peace Corps right before DOJ was coming in.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Was fascinating to me in obtaining.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
These records is the level of detail, the fact that
they were planning for two months leading up to the
arrival at Peace Corps, the drills that were taking place.
I want the public to feel like they're a fly
on the wall and are right there when all of
this is taking place. So I think the documents are fascinating.
(38:25):
I want more. I want more of these documents. And
as I mentioned Matt, this is just the kind of
first interim release that we received after I negotiated with
the agency.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
And I think it shows the impact that DOGE, in
the way it went about doing what it's doing, had
on the operations of government. I think to some extent,
it also shows how much the federal bureaucracy doesn't want
to change. That it's resistant to anyone coming in and
reviewing their operations and potentially finding that they're doing things
(38:57):
that aren't consistent with policy directives of this administration, or
that are inefficient, or whatever it may be. And so like,
I don't want to leave the impression, at least for myself,
that this is like DOGE is bad and the agencies
are good. I think the idea of what DOGE was
supposed to be doing is not a bad one. And
I think that agencies, to the extent they weren't cooperating,
were probably in many instances being motivated by their own
(39:20):
self preservation, which isn't necessarily consistent with a broader public interest.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
True, and as I mentioned earlier, Matt, you know, this
is the job that inspectors General would perform for the
most part, looking into waste fraud and abuse, for example,
labor mischarging. That is what the watchdogs, the internal watch
dogs historically have done. But you can't get away from
(39:45):
the fact that there's a political agenda here. And with
agencies like USAID that were identified by Project twenty twenty five,
the reason was not so much much about waste fraud
and abuse, but the political and ideological associations with the
(40:07):
programs that, for example, USA Idea was funding. Project twenty
twenty five was essentially trying to make the case that
the US was funding abortion.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
So, you know, Jason, I feel like I haven't heard
a ton lately about what's going on at DOGE, Like
what is going on these days? Well, dog is largely
faded from public view. Many of the DOJE employees, like
Bridget Youngs, they either became permanent government employees. They are
now attached to a specific agency or they left.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I mean Elon Musk is gone. So the whole sort
of idea of DOGE taking an act to these agencies,
I mean they first six months of the year, that's
what they did, but then it just completely faded. But
they still exist US DOZE Service is still an entity,
and as it relates to the Foyer, there's still a fight,
(40:57):
you know, to get those records. But for the most
part are those who were attached to DOGE are now
part of the government bureaucracy within other agencies. But yeah,
DOGE is not headline news the way it was for
the first six months of the year.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Well, you know, Jason, you know what they say about
peace right.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Peace sells, but who's buying peace? And but who's buying Oh.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
That's perfect, you put a price on piece. I think
Megadeth is about to do like a final tour, right
they are final tour with Iron Maiden. We're going we're
getting backstage and we're going to interview Davi mis Staine.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
About all this. What do you think I'm broke?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
What a classic line? Better work biz Time from Bloomberg
and No Smiling. This is Disclosure.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
The show is hosted by Matt Topik and me Jason Leopold.
It's produced by Heather Schroing and Sean Cannon for No Smiling.
Our editor for Bloomberg is Jeff Grocott. Our executive producers
for Bloomberg are Sagebauman and me Jason Leopold, and our
executive producers for No Smiling are Sean Cannon, Heather Schrowing
and Matt Topic. The Disclosure theme song is by Nick,
(42:12):
with additional music by Nick and Epidemic Sound.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Sound design and mixing is by Sean Cannon.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
For more transparency news and important document thumps, you can
subscribe to my Weeklyfoya Files newsletter at Bloomberg dot com
slash Foya Files. That's Foia Files. To get every episode
early on Apple Podcasts. Become a Bloomberg dot com subscriber today.
Check out our special intro offer right now at Bloomberg
(42:39):
dot com Slash podcast offer.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Or click the link in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
You'll also unlock deep reporting data and analysis from reporters
around the world.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
We'll see you again next Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
What do you mean I can't get to work on time?
Got nothing better? To do a new way,
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