Kevin Durant's Ruptured Achilles, Klay Thompson's Torn ACL, Anthony Davis Traded to LA

Dr. Mitchell Roslin and Gregg Sussman break down Kevin Durant's injury and whether it was inevitable. What will happen to Durant long term and should another team invest a max contract in him? Plus, Dr. Roslin gives the thumbs up on Klay Thompson's future and breaks down the Anthony Davis trade. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The radio network. What is up, everybody, Welcome to Side
Studio four. This is DC Jock. That is Mitchell dr
Mitchell Rosalind. I am Drank salesman. We'll screwed up the

(00:22):
entire insurance. I was so excited, Doc, I'm doing well.
I'm doing well. It's uh, it's absolutely fascinating. That's good.
You know, you and I spend time, uh texting back
and forth and and discussing, and and and and since
we're here last Monday, we have a new NBA champion,
and yet it seems like that's the smallest part of

(00:45):
the entire story of what's going on in you know, honestly,
the NBA has replaced the NFL as the world's best
running American reality show for now. Well, NFL always can
get that back. But it's amazing because is when week
ago we sat in these very chairs and we talked
about the NBA finals and and a little bit of

(01:05):
a NBA free agency, and legitimately, in the seven days
since our last show, everything has changed. Everything has turned
upside down. And from the beginning and I actually have
it up here, was ready for this. At nine pm
last Monday night, you texted me the second that Kevin
Durant went down and you said that's his achilles. Here's

(01:29):
the issue. He has a partial, not full terror of
achilles before any diagnosis. This is literally what Durant's sitting
on the ground. He has a partial not full terror
of achilles. Is a high likelihood of a full terror
in the future. There's no way to rehab as it's
a wear and tear injury, rest, a lot of therapy.
That is not his calf, it's beneath that is a tear.

(01:51):
That's no calf strain. The way they are acting, and
they're concerned he has a torn kilers is now at
last night, last Monday night, that's calf stream. The way
they are acting, they are concerned. As a torn achilles
was a so called pulled must pulled muscle, they'd be disappointed,
but he would have months to heal. Wow, cannot believe

(02:12):
the Warriors came back to win as their leonard went crazy.
M Yeah, So let's expand on all of those things.
Number One, tell what we know now. Obviously, well, everybody
in the world knows that Kevin Durant toward his right achilles.
And let's start with the question that you're really asking,

(02:33):
and everybody asked, is are they related? And the answer
is absolutely. The calf is a muscle. The end of
the muscle is attending the end of the muscle of
the tendon is the Achilles tend. The achilles tit tears
when the tendon goes in one direction, for example your
dows reflecting always lifting up your leg, and the muscle

(02:54):
contracts and that force extent, you know, exceeds the force
the tending can roll. So basically you have a contraction
of the half muscle going in one direction the tendon
pulling in another direction. That force succeeds what the tendon
can handle, and then you get that injury. Those two
things have to be related. The second part is you

(03:16):
always ask the question why then, why now? Why didn't
it happen? And he's made that move fifteen thousand times
and there are a lot of reasons for that, Okay.
One is that over the course of time, the wear
and tear on that tendon war down. It could be
the force of that contraction was was higher. And the

(03:38):
other thing I told you is that this might have
been predetermined. And that's that's something we never know because
he can never be his own control group, like he
could arrested all year, played for a different team and
toward that same thing. So that was obviously my question
from the beginning. When Durrett went down with this what
they call they sore calf, it looked like just from

(04:00):
the video evidence, he always grabbed below the calf. It
was never like when you think of your calf. He low.
He had a low injury of the calf, and but
the calf muscle itself now you have scar tissue, less flexibility,
potentially spasms goes in one direction, tear tears the tendon.
To say they're not related when the tendon you know

(04:21):
where the calf ends and the tendon begins, is really
you know it's it's there. They're obviously related. But what
you said a moment ago that he could have sat
out for the next mr the rest of the NBA Finals,
set out for the next six months, played with the Warriors,
with the Knicks, with whoever, and then snap right. So
I asked, my question is because it's aware it basically,

(04:45):
and this is where it comes down to where you
kind of have to allow emotion to move away and
look at what it means and realized that if any
of us coulddrin the future, we'd all be a lot wealthy,
no doubt. But that the obvious question I have to
ask and to let you go. Did it matter that

(05:08):
he came back in Game five and then one quarter
and a half later he's tore the achilles or this
is gonna happen anyway a combination of both. The answer
is yes, it made it far more likely because again
an achilles tear is related to the calf and the
muscle pulling. So therefore you to imagine a damage or scar.

(05:31):
Muscle is more likely to go in its own direction.
Spasm will create whatever force it's going to do. But
the second possibility is from playing basketball his entire life,
and there's so much wear and tear that there was
going to be that next thing to do this. I
do think it does show that Kevin durand you know,

(05:56):
think about this as a car. Maybe the car model.
We look at the draft year being the model, but
we look at how many miles are on the car.
It tells you that there are miles on the spaedomena. Now,
of course, just like you know, you make this decision,
I should I put money and I and I hate
to take human beings and put them in this type
of analogy, because I think it really doesn't do justice

(06:17):
to somebody who's is you know, is accomplished as Kevin Durant.
So I apologize, but you know, you get down and
you say, well, if I repair, this is something else
going to go. And I think that that's what you
really have to be concerned with, which is that if
I had to give a probability over the next four
years of him having a injury that keeps him out

(06:41):
for a year, I would put that number somewhere between ten.
And I think that you know, number one, you have
the concerns about that achilles rerupture. How much explosivity does
it take away from him? The other thing is that
righties are more likely to tear their left achilles. Lefties
are more likely to tear their right achilles. And you

(07:03):
can think about it as logically, you're off leg as
your plant leg most often, so it's not out of
the realm that he can tear the other side. The
bottom line is, you know, if I was working for
Susman Reinsurance, I would say that I would charge a

(07:25):
huge rate to ensure a hundred million dollar contract. I
would be talking about I would say, I would look
at you and say the chance and you know, you
never know what year that's gonna be. If it's in
the fourth year, you know, like for example, David Right,
I would say that, you know, if you we signed
him to a four year contract, I'd say that there's
a fifteen percent chance that he's gonna miss one of
those years. So I'm paying out on that that year.

(07:47):
But that number that you're giving us making it. But
forget being working for the insurance company. If you're working
as an owner or a general manager of an organization,
are you giving Kevin Durant the max hundred and forty

(08:07):
whatever it is million dollar contract to sign him long term?
I think it depends on what your expectations and what
you think. I mean, if if if I'm the Knicks,
I would honestly you see, I think if you are
the Knicks, I think you're gonna wind up not having

(08:28):
and you're going to have a reduced to Kevin during
Now if you ask basketball wise, I think he's going
to be able to score. I told you last week
I said he was gonna because okay, you know, and
and I wasn't far from wrong from that. Okay, because
I'm gonna read exactly what you said. When he pulled

(08:49):
his calf, I felt that it was likely he would
tear as Achilles. What you just mentioned. I think of
the Achilles injury is two issues, the injury and the
fact the injury represents that the threat is off the tire.
There are so there are some traumatic tears when some
steps on you. But this is where and tear. The
interesting thing is lehen you take a step back. The
entire NBA is now reshuffled. Um, where's the line? Oh

(09:13):
you nice? Because you said here it is. I'm sorry
I skipped it. Kelly's injuries mean the best of the
career is over for several reasons. It is an overused injury,
and most do not come all the way back. Durant
will score as he did yesterday, but he will lack explosiveness.

(09:33):
Thus I would be reluctant to sign him. Yes, do
you stand by all that? I stand exactly by that.
I mean, you're you're you're going to you look at
Isaiah Thomas, you look at Patrick Ewing. You know it's
a very tough injury to not pull tight. I mean,
I know everybody points to Dominique Wilkins to Marcus Cousins
most recently. He's younger, you know, and you know, I

(09:56):
know it was a different injury and stuff like that,
but again, you know that I can only deal with probability,
not not not in everybody's different, everybody, you know, everybody's different.
People are talking the repairs. You know, in the biggest
complications of surgical repairs. You know, there's really not a

(10:18):
lot of skin between the achilles. You know, you can
feel your own skilly, so the wound infection rates not low,
and then it's it's problematic to to to get the
exact tension. Some of the differences now is that in
the past there was a lot of rest. Now they
we realize that rehab has to be a more more
more active process. Um. But again I think there's real concern.

(10:43):
I mean, look, there was a reason why DeMarcus Cousins
signed for for the balloting basement. And you know, I
think for example, what you're seeing the worries talk about
signing Clay and that's a different age. Get to him
a few moments and and and signing Durant. I think
you know, again, one of the things that you always
have to ask yourself in the business of sports, and
I know when it's really emotional right now, especially after

(11:06):
they went to and their human beings involved, and there's
a lot of feeling are they paying these people for
what they did or what they're going to do. That
is always, always, always in free agency the question that
has to be considered, and more so with when you
bring up a player and resigning a player. And I
think Durant and Clay Thompson are really really strong examples
of that. So I mean, honestly, if I'm Golden State,

(11:33):
I mean, and unless there's a lot of Jewish guilt
going on, I would let Durant walk because you know,
the the the medical probability is is what I'm saying.
Say you can figure it out fo you know, on
what percent of of him re entering that Achilles figure
another five to ten percent that he's not the same player,

(11:57):
a certain risk for the left side. And like I said,
you know, and I think there's were there someplace, someplace
interesting where we're going. It shows that there's a fair
amount of miles on the speedometer. This is not what
your first year player in eighteen year old gets. This
is usually an injury that happens to basketball players in
their thirties. Okay, So so it tells you is something

(12:21):
else going to go where and tear? Now, if I'm
the Knicks, you know again, Anthony Davis shows you once
again we talked about and not saying they did the
wrong thing. The Knicks have always been the bridesmaid. Maybe
it's worth the risk for the Knicks to change the culture.
I guess I'm wondering what Golden States thinking because they're

(12:45):
gonna have to sign Draymond Green, they have Steph Curry,
they have Clay Thompson, and these guys have all played
a ton of basketball over the last few years. Don't
they run the risk of having everybody get old at
the same exact time by by doing that? And I mean,
if if that's the way I was, I think and

(13:06):
I think that this gives Golden State, and I understand
that at his best Durant is the first and second
best player in the world, a chance to take a
step back and not get old everywhere at the same time.
Does that make sense to you? I mean, I think
this is the hot and loyalty speaking rather than logic.

(13:29):
I mean, would you take two Max players coming back
from surgical injuries, and then now your team is basically
what you're looking at, and you have to say that,
you know, Steph has played a lot of basketball, Draymond
Green's played a lot of basketball. Can they also have
a wear and tear type injury coming up? And you know,
again you can't predict injuries, but you can't predict teams

(13:53):
getting old. At the same time, I mean, what would
Bill Belichick do. I'm glad you bring up Belichick because
because there's no question Belichick lets him walk. There's there's
zero question about that. But this is only slightly different
because I want to go back to the finals and
the decision that was made, and the narrative that was

(14:14):
around all of this being that Durant was soft, that
he didn't push himself, that he didn't have the championship mentality,
that he was selfish knowing he was a free agent
to be in a matter of weeks, and the trainers,
the doctors, the general manager, the agent, and Durant himself

(14:36):
all got together and ultimately decided he's playing. How much
of that comes from Durant and how much of that
comes from the organization. Could they have not forced him
to play. You can't force a man to do anything.
But Bob Meyers, the general manager and president of of
Golden State, was in tears saying, it's my fault. Blame me.

(14:57):
What do you mean to blame you? Why are we
blaming you? What went into that decision here? Doc? And
obviously it was the wrong one because what happened, you know,
you know, first of all, you know, it's it's funny.
You know, when I was growing up and hate to
date myself, I used to watch when I was really little,
Marcus Well b MD, and I was like, I don't
know what. Okay, Marcus Well he was like the greatest

(15:18):
doctor in the whole world, okay. And and it's funny
he could tell people, you know, he's got six months
to live, let's send them to the City of Hope
and stuff like that. I always wondered, like when in
medical school am I gonna learn exactly how long somebody
is gonna live? And you know the other comment that
I heard, the doctors said they can't hurt it worse again,
that's craziness. Okay, we have no predictive value when anybody

(15:43):
is going to get hurt from a traumatic or non
traumatic injury. And we all know if something else is scarred,
it has an effect on everything else. So what happened
is Durant met the criteria of being able to go
through mobility drills, go through stretching exercises, go through go

(16:05):
through a set of tasks that mimicked the load that
would be put on a calf in an NBA game
to a smaller degree, and once he was able to
meet those metrics pain free, he got cleared. Okay, the
idea even you know, the idea that you can't hurt
anything worse probably could only be if he played on

(16:27):
a twenty A chill. He's tended, you know, to begin with,
you know, for example, like Philip Rivers played on the
A C L and I'll talk about the difference between
ligaments and tendons afterwards. Okay, that being that being said, Okay,
that doesn't mean I'm faulting anybody's decision. These are great

(16:48):
doctors they have you know, they're under a difficult type
of things. This is a well thought out decision. Durant's
own people are involved. The next thing is at was
talking to coach McCaffrey. One of my close friend Fran
McCaffrey from my own we're just talking to friend, brings
out a great point. He goes, you know, do you
have a burn a phone? Okay, okay, we don't have

(17:11):
burn a phone. He goes, you know, Kevin Durant has
several that just tells you how sensitive and insecure. And
that's fascinating to me because we look at Kevin Durant
as wealthy, articulate, been successful on and off the court, Okay,

(17:32):
wonderful relationship with his mother, and I haven't even mentioned
his greatest attribute, that he's arguably the best basketball player
in the world. And we say, well, what do you
have to be insecure about? And the answer is it's very, always,
very hard to judge other people's insecurities. And you know what,
he grew up in a single parent home, dirt poor

(17:52):
in Baltimore. He probably feels that everything could be taken
away from him the same way, you know, like I
felt my grandparents felt, and immigrant people feel no matter
what they've accomplished this that sense of insecurity kind of
goes down by generation. You probably have less of it
than I have where our first generational So it's always
easy to look at somebody else and judge there. And

(18:13):
so he's obviously very sensitive. So he obviously hears these things,
whether he should or he shouldn't. The fact that he
has burn of Thrones, as friend points out, tells you
that he does. So it's it's it's a very very
interesting decision. And as I said, I don't necessarily know

(18:33):
that we'll ever know that this couldn't have happened at
the beginning of training camp. And I made this point
about Zion Williamson. Basketball players play basketball. I mean, that's
how they get good, that's how they practice. You can
have these wear and terri injuries scrimmaging in a pickup
game this summer. You know. Unfortunately, athletes are not, for example,

(18:56):
find jewels that we can put up on a shelf
and put in protection or else they don't get any better.
So I don't really have a problem with the decision,
but and I don't second guess the decision. But I
will say that if I'm the Worriors, I wonder if
emotion is overstepping probability and solid business decisions, especially faced

(19:25):
with really not a great young talent on that team.
If you're Kevin Durant, you have a thirty one million
dollar player option for next year to stay in Golden State.
You can opt in and take that, or opt out
and probably get near a max or a near max
offer on the open market. What do you do? You

(19:46):
know again, I think actions speak louder than words, you know.
And I said this that I didn't think Kyler Murray
was going to ride buses. Okay, I think that the
fact that Kevin Durant flew to New York, yes it's
close in flying at Surgery at Special Surgery by you know,
in New York um where his obviously his agent didn't

(20:10):
even inform the Warriors team doctors, make me believe that
he's going independent. Now. I know that Draymond Green, and
I know that the popular press has said that the
Warriors are bringing him back and all those things. I
don't know. It sounded to me like he left the
fraternity that night. I mean, you know, he he obviously

(20:34):
didn't want the consideration of the Warriors doctors. I mean,
he what if what if they recommended you get the
surgery in New York? But he flew to New York
and he had his m r R at Special Surgery.
He came to Special Surgery Okay, they got in charge.
They got in touch with the guy who runs the

(20:56):
foot and Ankle McCarthy over there, who did the surgery.
Unto us day, the Warriors knew that he had surgery
when Duran twe did to the fans, they didn't know
before them, They had no idea before. I think that
speaks volumes. Are we sure about that? Yeah, that speaks
volumes to me. Now. I can't tell you what's going

(21:16):
on behind the scenes right now, but in the emotion
of the moment, they basically tightened ranks. He came with
his business agent to New York, which is again unusual
because I mean, you know, let's face at UCSF Stanford.
You know, the West Coast is not struggling the top positions,
especially in the San Francisco area. I mean, it's one

(21:39):
of the most desirable places in the world to go. Now.
I understand, like athletes have gone down to Andrews in Alabama,
and they go to Steadman and Veil and stuff like that.
But I can't think of a time where Robert Anderson
North Carolina. Okay, I can't think of a time in
my lifetime where an athlete got on a plane well

(22:00):
to a city directly not their home city for second opinion,
flew to another hospital, you know, and had surgery. I
can't think of any time that's ever happened in my time.
So I think when when you bring you know, I've
had involvement. You know, Lennox Hill has taken care of
the jets for years. So I think, what it comes
to my mind? How quick it was? Right, Like you've

(22:20):
seen players Tarrant Achilles go to the doctor office course
in near Oakland get a second opinion. In New York,
there's no second opinion for Achilles. I mean, there's only
two ways to treat the town Achilles. You can rest
and rehab, which is what we do for your mother.
But if you're a professional athlete, that has zero chance
of working because it will rerupture. So there's no and

(22:42):
and now you get into the timing of surgery. And
and most people are having acute surgery. How long is
the surgery so well, it depends on what they do
and and and whether they back it with you know,
with they take like a tissue from somewhere else to
back the tendon or direct repair. It's probably no longer

(23:03):
than an hour and a half to two hours unless
they're doing doing a graft. And and the real issue
with it is it really is an operation that does
take a lot of technique to do, and who does
it And this this was some of the concerns about Backham,
Like if you pull it too tight, you create the
the risk of increased tension on it. You'll leave it

(23:24):
to lax. Then they don't have any explosivity. So getting
it just right is really really difficult. I mean it's
really I'm just trying to figure out the timing of
all this, right, Like, so he gets hurt on Monday night,
right Monday night, he gets hurt, and we find out that, Okay, yeah,
it's an achilles injury. It's what it's Tuesday at five

(23:47):
o'clock we find out hers achilles. We find out that
he had surgery on it. Yeah, so as soon as
it's done, you're gonna you're gonna do it right right
off the bat. So, I mean, how when did he
leave for New York. I mean, it's not any minutes
to Toronto. Fifty minutes. I got there either in San Francisco.
That's where I was confused, a that there in Toronto.
There in Toronto, they were it was Game five right

(24:08):
there in Toronto. In Toronto, Now so San Francisco. Then okay,
so so, and that's possible. Maybe you said, Okay, I
don't want him going on a transcontinental flight. Okay, we'll
go to New Yorker. That's possible. And maybe I'm misreading it,
but I tend to think that, you know, they could
have a golf stream. He's back there in five hours,

(24:31):
if you know him and his business guy Rick Clemon,
Rich Kleiman decided we're taking care of this. This is
you know, basically, you know, in in in times of crisis,
people always pull into their inner circle. You know, there's
times you want your friends around, there's times you want
your family around. To me, this was family only. So

(24:53):
you take a lot of stock. Then that the first
word of the surgery of the actual injury came from
Durant's Instagram account rather than a press release from Golden State,
and the Golden State found out about at the same
time you did. It seems like okay to me, actions
speak louder than words. That tells me that Durant had

(25:15):
divorced himself from that edge that organization him enriched Climb
and say he did said it is the instagram did
say he's pulling for his brothers, et cetera, et cetera.
I understand that, and Draymond Green went to visit him.
But again I'd say actions speak louder than words. I
mean it. It's tells me that he you know, you
know that he confides in rich climbing and trust his

(25:39):
decision with his livelihood much more than he trusts the
Golden State Warriors. It was not all hands on deck.
Three days later, Thursday Night, Game six, let's win it
for k D and through almost three quarters, Thompson at

(26:00):
thirty points, that's exactly what he was doing, goes and
it's funny, that's what I said. For them to win
this game, Clay Thompson's gonna have to squad forty points,
and he would have, and they would have pointed, they
would have. I agree with you. And Clay Thompson goes
up for a layup. It was just him and the basket.
Danny Green comes kind of out of nowhere. Hard foul
is what it was on Clay. I don't think it

(26:21):
was dirty by any means, but a hard foul to
stop him from lands wrong, just lands wrong. Awkward limp
and and that's what happens with a So well, the
question we talked before about the calf relating to the
achilles and you said probably and it was a lower calf. Yes,
the answer is yes. Now don't let's not forget that
Clay Thompson missed Game three with a hamstring injury. Is

(26:42):
there any relation to that with torn a c L?
Probably not, okay, And and that's you know again, you
know sometimes we see these a c L s where
you kind of in non contact, but he came down
in an awkward position. So a ligament is an attachment
between two bones. Okay, Okay, So the A c L
connects the big bone, the femur, to the tibia, providing

(27:05):
stability to the knee, okay, and preventing it to go
front and back and rubbing, which is you can live
without an a c L. The problem is usual your
knee is relatively unstable in the bone runs, so it
increases the arthritis rate. At tendon is the insertion of
a muscle onto a bone, so it's moving your your
you're the thing. The Achilles tendon is actually the largest

(27:28):
tendon in the body. So what causes a c L
injuries is exactly that kind of a force where the
knee goes one way buckles the other way, which is
exactly what Clay had. You know, the classic traumatic you
landed wrong and the knees in an awkward and the
a c L snaps um because the a c L

(27:49):
attaches two bones and doesn't really have a muscle levering.
They've gotten really good at doing that. That those repairs
which can neither be done with you know, a grap
from your own knee, which is kind of the way
most people are doing, or with a cadaveric raft and
basically you pin that into the femur and into into

(28:10):
the tibia to keep the nieces stable. Uh, the cadaveric
patients have a little cadaveric means they're taking the the
the donor from previous you know, from a somebody who
passed away, and it's cryopretty right cadaveric try to draft.
So the advantage, you know, one of the advantages of

(28:32):
using your own is that it's a better blood supply
and also you have a little bit of more tenderness
because it's usually the patellic part of the tell a
tendant that they take and you really want to slow
down that process because none of these things have a
good blood supply. So what keeps the a c L
from coming back, because really it's stabilized in the ore
is we doctors orthopods want you to allow time to

(28:57):
allow that graft to be vascular rised and scarred in.
And that's why the time frame you know is usually
no no earlier than six months to allow that to
have a blood supply. And you saw Adrian Peterson come
back in in in in in record record time. Interestingly,
if you go back to Bernard King, before there was

(29:19):
author scopic surgery, the a c L was a career
ending injury similar to the on the collateral and Tommy
John before Tommy John came back the on the collateral
if it was known, because I'm sure there are pitches
that pitched without it, and I'm sure there have been
athletes that have played without an a c L. Hockey
players traditionally have played without a c L s with

(29:40):
graphs because it doesn't require you know and have an
earlier authoritis rate. So Clay's recovery is a both more
predictable and we've already seen people reach that same level.
I mean, think about the conversation we're having about the
NBA draft Arias galand towards a c L, and he's
likely to be the fourth the sixth player picked in

(30:02):
the NBA draft. But I don't think the the player
coming back from it as is as soon as like
the NFL. Like the NFL, we see it all the time,
Tom Brady, Adrian Peterson, they came back and almost were
no worse for wear. But the enemy A most recently
and I looked it up the other day, the the
guy that comes back from it most recently have success

(30:22):
with Zach Lavine and he hasn't really missed the step.
He's been fantastic with Chicago. Other than that, there's not
as much data as I would have thought. I'm not
I'm not worried about Clay Thompson coming back from an
a c L. At this point in time, the A
c L repair has gotten really good. He'll come back
to where he was. The real issue that you have

(30:43):
is the great thing about the Warriors is they had
or fantastic players who were at that peak and at
the peak at the same time. I think the real
thing that I would be concerned about is if you
commit money to every single one of them, do you
want them to grow old at the same time. And

(31:04):
you know, one of the things that I was thinking
about and having these conversations as we saw you know,
the first term the the you know how a pitch
count has now calmed to the NBA, it's now called
load management. So the question becomes, you know, people are
now giving Toronto great credit for managing Kauai Leonard's load

(31:28):
coming back from an injury to do. What's gonna be really, really,
really interesting if the Lakes have a great year next
year with Lebron and Anthony Davis, who, for different reasons,
had that load managed. You know, Anthony Davis probably logged
the least stressful minutes of any NBA superstar in recent memory,

(31:52):
which honestly is kind of different. You know, I think
like you'd be concerned, like if somebody's playing out the contract.
They did everything to maxim eyes his value. They didn't
want want him to get hurt at all. They basically
you have to give them some degree of credit. They
basically looked in the mirror and said, you know what,
if we exhaust him, maybe with the eighth seed in
the playoffs, probably weren't was seventh seed. We're not winning

(32:15):
a championship no matter what. Let's put him under wraps
and get the most value him. I never really saw
that done before. You know, you saw like the Cowboys
take the running back and give him the ball five
thousand times in his option year, you know Murray, Yeah,
I mean Murray like that. They would have sent Murray
into like a pile of bricks, Margot Murray. They ran
him thousand times and then let him walk exactly. I mean,

(32:38):
you know you you I don't think that that was
the Mets intent with Matt Harvey, but Matt Harvey would
would would would would make make that point. You know,
if you're a picture right now and you're in your
walk year and you're kind of like, you know, I'll
give you Zach Wheel, you know, pretty good, but no
one knows whether you're worth big money, like you know,

(32:58):
in the Mets interest to owe him out there if
they're not going to sign him every fourth day, you know,
or or let him go a hundred and thirty pitches.
So I wonder we're reaching pitch counts in the NBA,
which after this and and and and and and talking
about because you know, that has to come to mind
with all of the basketball that the Warriors and Lebron
James have played that you know, injuries. You know, we

(33:21):
we really we never thought of the NBA as a
game of attrition as much as we think of football
as a game of attrition. Kahi Leonard obviously proved that
throughout the years. In twenty two games uh the season
due to load management. The Warriors themselves said after they won,

(33:42):
had the best record of all time in a regular season.
It was hard. You know, we pushed ourselves to get there,
and they subscribe to the theory of load management. Lebron,
before we got hurt, we'd go on vacation for the
weekend the middle of the season. Load manage well. But
not for example, his last year in Cleveland, ever, he
had got all of the negative certain plicity, yes, you know,

(34:04):
all the negative publicity. So you know again, I think
the first time we heard about pitch counts, we all
threw ahead. And now they're part of baseball. Um. Yet
it would be hard to show data. But I think
when now going to see pitch counts in the NBA, YEF,
I don't think there's any question about it that that
we will uh see pitch counts. I mean, you know,
they changed the rules so that you're not supposed to

(34:25):
scratch a healthy player at a fanness to the fans
now in fanness to the NBA, they've reduced the number
of back to backs and stuff like that. But I
think that load management is going to be maybe the
term for the NBA pitch count that you're going to
now now see, Now the question becomes the Warriors don't

(34:47):
want to be disloyal, but they have to look at
the future. As you say, you don't want everybody you
get old. At the same time, you don't want to
pay for what they've done. You want to pay for
what's to come. Do you give Clay the max deal?
I think I'd give Clay and and and and and
move on from Durant. Durant wants to opt out, You
move on, You move on. I mean that that that's

(35:07):
that's what I wouldn't be emotional about this in terms
of there and I'd be concerned for the reasons that
I laid out. Now the Knicks. If if I'm the Knicks,
you know the cards aren't playing. You know, you look
at who's going to really make a difference. I mean,
and and you know, even in Durant, who's gonna come.

(35:28):
I mean, the ideal thing for the Knicks with their
salary cap would be if they're bad contracts out there,
to take the bad contracts and get draft picks at it.
What's problematic is that all of the NBA of free
agents within the next two years, So I don't even
think they're bad contracts out there to necessarily take to
build draft capital. Contract that's a terrible contract. And you

(35:48):
know what, but I don't know how how that plays
in because it's really confusing with the NBA cap, Like
I mean, I don't understand how the Lakers have only
five players under contract but no cap room, you know,
and I'd have to sit down and look at that math.
But if you're the Knicks, I mean, it's a it's
a very difficult decision. Obviously you would speak to Kawai Leonard,

(36:12):
but he's not coming. Um. I mean, do you want
Kemba Walker as a centerpiece? Again? I think that the
risk you have to take is what was great about
the Warriors is that great players reached the peak at
the same time. So what I've been worried about if
the Knicks is if you get it, Durant, who has

(36:32):
begun to enter into the twilight, and you have only
other assets that have not even hit their prime or
whether they would hit their prime. You know that timing
doesn't work. So I'd almost want to, you know, assemble
as many lottery tickets as I possibly could and hope
that I could become something like the Denver Nuggets, you know,

(36:55):
and then once I was there, like the Nuggets, then
try to find that thing to go over the top,
which you know has to bring us to Anthony Davis.
That's exactly where it brings us now. Because we talked
about this during mid season. What do you do? What

(37:16):
do you do? Do you wait for the grandfather offer
potentially from Boston or do you take what seems the
time a fantastic and best offer from the Lakers. And
I remember I had said, you wait, there's no harm
we we you were with me. We both said we waited.
But you know what's really strange, it's it's it's that again,

(37:36):
it's emotion and it's perception at the time, and what changed.
The only thing that's different from the offer today and
the offer that was given in mid season was a
they won the lottery Zion Williamson, which is has nothing

(37:57):
to do with that offer at all, but changes the
perception of that offer. And the second thing is they
got lucky getting the fourth draft pickers, and I'm not
so sure as we've discussed that the fourth draft pick
it's worth that much there is. Well, that's not the
only change for the offer to be fair. The other

(38:19):
changes is replacing Kyle Kuzma, who was in the initial
offer with a couple of first round picks. Remember they
in the initial offer from this past winter, it was Kuzma,
Ingram Ball and two first rounders. That was the That
was the offer. Now it's Ball, it's Ingram, it's Josh
hartwill get to Ingram in the second. I know you
want to talk about that. Ingram Ball heart three first rounders,

(38:43):
including the number four pick, an option to swap picks
in one of those years where they don't have the
first round pick, and very minimal protections on that on
those picks, meaning that if they don't if Lakers don't
land in a certain spot, and they could wind up
pushing it back a year. A lot flexibility for New
Orleans in the future, which is exactly what they wanted

(39:04):
and all good, but it could also be you know,
a lot. You know, David Griffin said he wanted an
all stuff. Okay, where is the all star in this this?
I assume he believes that either Lonzo ball at Brandon
England can become one. Okay, Ingram is now this is

(39:25):
we we discussed this. Ingram who is in the Ben
Simmons years, so he's finished his third year in the league. Okay.
When he was drafted, everyone hoped he was going to
be a point man's Kevin Durant. Correct, he can't hit
the three. Okay. You know, we talked last week about
the blood clots. So the reason for his blood clots
is actually he had thoracic outlet syndrome, which is like

(39:46):
what Matt Horvey has and supposedly Marquel Folls had. But
Hiss actually leaned on the vein, the subclavian vein, giving
him the blood clots. So that is actually a very
positive because of a mechanical problem. So in other words,
because there was pressure on the vein, the vein clouded,
you relieve the pressure. He should not require anticoagulation in

(40:07):
the future because it's a correctible cause, Okay, so he
should be Okay, he should be okay from that standpoint
that being said, Okay, what is he He's a six
eleven to god, he is a six to seventh man,
and the good six to seventh man can come in
and give you some offense. But again, he's not a
stretch for because he doesn't rebound and he can't hit

(40:29):
the three. Okay, he can he get better? Yes, but
you know it what pace? I mean? You know? I
mean he's only twenty one years old. No, he's no
Ingram's years old. Ingram's twenty one, okay, Josh Hawks twenty

(40:51):
four and balls Alonzo Ball is one years old as well. Yeah,
Ingram stol I thought anyone was twenty four one. I mean, yes,
he can get better, he can fill out a little bit.
Math doesn't really make sense. Yeah, because they come in

(41:12):
and he's the twenty one. Yeah, he's one. So he
came into the league very young. You so, yeah, he could,
he could, but you know, again, I haven't seen it.
I think he is a very ball dominant player. Now
a Lonzo Ball I think could be very good on

(41:33):
the right team. But I think New Orleans I'm not
sure it has enough shooting for him like Zion Williamson.
Alonzo Ball, I'm not sure. I like that point. I
like that Phoenix thing much better with Devin Booker. You know,
I think that Alonzo Ball and Williamson is either gonna
work great or not work at all. Alonzo Ball Brandon

(41:56):
Ingram potentially Drew Holiday, Zion Williamson the future New Orleans.
So take a step back. They didn't like Brandon England
and they didn't like Alonzo Ball during the season, well,
well they didn't like remember one. It's also a different,
different general manager. Did Alonzo Ball get better because the
Lakers was so bad when he didn't play and people said, oh,

(42:17):
they're missing all their defense? Did it? Did Brandon Ingram's
value increase because they both got hurt? I mean no,
I just think number one and the fourth it's different.
It's a different decision maker. And the fourth draft pick,
I don't think it's where it sounds great. But yeah,
I know, let's look at a Lonzo Ball is the
second pick pick pick, you know, Ingram was second pick
pick and the fourth pick you know here, you know,

(42:43):
I think all with all these picks mean with the
exception say of a zion, with the exception of when
there's a Lebron James and the pick is that you
have more lottery tickets to potentially get the next joke,
to potentially get the next Jamal Murray. But it's not
like you know, we discussed most people have Jarik Culva

(43:04):
going as the fourth pick, and neither of us. We
all had a very good chance to watch him for
three games. We saw things that we liked, and we
saw things we didn't like that we didn't like. You know.
The other person people talked about was DeAndre Hunter, which
we've discussed said we know he was going to DeAndre
Hunter will be in the NBA for twelve years, Okay,

(43:25):
but I think that there's a if you asked me,
I'd say there's a seventy percent chance that he spends
eight of them sitting on the bench. You know, it
is a rotation player. Let me go to the other
side of things unctually before I do. When you're getting
first round picks and everybody covers them for the right

(43:46):
for the reason, you want to find you okay, you
want to find Murray, you want to hit You can't
really get much luckier than getting a number four, picking
that deal like you're not gonna get if you don't
get one or two or three, and getting number four
is pretty damn good. Yeah, I mean I'm not you
know again, I'm just saying that they didn't get that
much more than they were getting in the regular season,

(44:08):
number four versus where the Lakers should have been drafting that. Well, yeah,
that you have, you have, but you're also you also
do not have the ability to you move number four
for something else you do. But again, how much in
this draft usually, how valuable is it? I mean, you know,
it's this is a draft where the only argument is

(44:34):
John Moran versus R. J. Bartt Okay, that that's really
the only argument in this draft. If you tell me
right now, I think Garland versus Kobe White is probably
an argument. Okay, But if you told me that there's
five players in the second round that a better than

(44:55):
four players in the top ten, I would take that
action right now. Well, I think it's I think you're right,
and I think it's funny and good. Good answer to that.
As my guy, right, Bruno Fernando, we've seen him everywhere
from the eighth overall pick to the Hawks in a
lottery to the second round. I mean he's been mocked
everywhere over the last two months. Currently, NBA draft dot

(45:17):
net has Bruno at nineteen to San Antonio and bowl
Ball at twenty to Boston. We've seen both of those
guys within the last week, the lottery guys. So I
think that holds creans um. And it's so funny. I
wanted to tell you. I was I asked Fran how
Tyler Cook was doing, and he said that, you know,

(45:39):
he's actually thinks he's going to do better than expected
because teams like him as the next generation backup center.
Tyler Cook Corn NBA draft dot Net still undrafted, okay,
and last week he was undrafted. I thought you had
him at thirty five. I thought it was undrafted. I
thought he was no, no, no, no, you had him
in forty. So he had a great workout with one team.

(46:01):
I'm not going to mention it, but so interesting how
what they did is they had him work. They had
him basically work with their strength coach for two hours, okay,
and then they put him through basketball drills for two hours,
and then they had him shoot a hundred and five
three points when he was dead tired, you know, to

(46:24):
see how he would hit them, which tells you where
the NBA is going. So Bruno Fernandez, I think that
that would be the knock on him. I think that
at least the more progressive organizations want somebody that they
can work within the weight room, that they think can
be a workout, has a great body for it, which

(46:44):
is probably why this team likes Tyler Cook. And then
ty it can hit a three point shot and that's
what that's That's pretty much what there with they're evaluating.
These guys are all over the place. So I'm not
sure how much value I think it's valuable, because you know,
obviously the more tickets you have, the more likely you
are the cash one, you know, sure, And and what's

(47:09):
going on now is what's coming into the n b A.
And this goes to your point about Brandon England improving
such unfinished projects that you know, let's face it, in
New York right now, Mitchell Robinson has a lot more
value than Kevin Knox, even though they were picked differently. Okay,

(47:29):
and it's not even a close call right now. I mean,
the argument that people make for knoxes is similar to
Ingram that he's extremely young and that he's six nine,
but he was probably I think he was the least
efficient efficient player in the NBA last year. What do
you make from the other side of the deal, the
Lakers side, they give up all of that stuff, They

(47:50):
bring Anthony Davis to round out the prime Lebron James
career and then put themselves, um in place. They have
another superstar when lebronze ultimately on. It's really really interesting.
I mean, obviously, you know, the only thing they could
have done. And now the real question is, I don't
know that now the NBA favorites to be and I

(48:13):
used to say, I used to say Lebron and any
ten players could could make it to the East Coast semifinals,
and maybe that's changing right now. Um, and Anthony Davis
is not any player. What's really interesting is that he's
a big and you know, if we look at the
teams that have won championships, you know, including Toronto, Golden State, Cleveland,

(48:45):
probably going back to Miami. I mean, I think you
have to go back to Shaquille O'Neill. Maybe you could
say Derk Navitski, where a big was there best player.
I mean, everybody's playing small now I know the argument

(49:06):
for Anthony Davis is that he's a big that can
play big and a big who can play small, which
makes him you know, he can go out and go
out anybody on the switch and he can go out
and hit the three. And that he was short growing up,
and you know, you know, and and and played god
just like the guy when the US Open was a god.
You know. So so I think that's the interesting thing.

(49:30):
But the question becomes, who do you put them with?
Who's who's who's going to be the defensive stop? But
who's going to be there? J J. Reddick? And you know,
do they have the money or will those people come?
I mean, so they have the leave I read, if
they the trade gets completed July one or whatever or

(49:50):
wherever the day is, they have like twenty three million
dollars in calf space. If they wait till the end
of the month, that goes up to thirty million dollars count.
And where is that? I mean that's because there's only
five layers under contract. I was trying to figure out
who they were. Obviously you have, I mean five besides
the two I know Wagner is one of them. MoU
Wagner who else is under contract? Alex Caruso under contract

(50:12):
with them. Let's look up who's on it. It's not
the land Stevenson. It's not any of the centers they
brought in. You know, here we go under contract four
next season. Lebron James, Muve Wagner, Kyle Kuzma. Okay, Isaac Bunga, Okay,

(50:34):
I don't even know who that is, nor do I. Uh.
Anthony Davis obviously, and that's it. So where is their
salary cap? Ron James making a thirty seven million dollars? Yeah,
but the cap is that everybody has a max. Lebron's
making thirty seven what's Anthony Davis making? He's making a lot?

(50:54):
Not not really, He's not maxed out yet, He's got
to be. He he is maxed out. He signed a
MAX extension the first time with them. Where is this
Pelicans hold on New Orleans? There's not enough poltic order.
It makes it very tough. There, You got it? Okay?
So Davis is making Okay, the Caps over a hundred

(51:18):
and thirty Okay, I'm not they must. We have some
players dead contracts that they eat. So they're eating next
year about five mill of lu all dang Okay, that's nothing.
Five mill of lu All, dang Bonga, Kuzma, Wagner, Lebron,

(51:43):
Anthony Davis. That's it. And and and they have to
do and then they have the mid cap, I mean
the NBA so with the mid cap, and it's it's
not a hard cap, you know. So it's really really
really confusing. So I mean, I mean, so I don't
know how exactly, you know, they'll probably fill out their roster,

(52:05):
just like we've heard rumors with Kemba Walker being the
top target, we've heard rumors of them separating some of
that space out two role players. I don't know, no,
you know, but what what it really basically means is
that the NBA is wide open. You know, you can't
really figure out where where it is. It's it is.
You know, the Warriors are not going to be the

(52:26):
Warriors next year. And right now, honestly, you know, I
would short the Lakers. You know, I know they've become
the favorites. But it seems to me that um, you know,
right like right now, if I would take some decent
odds on Denver, I think that Denver has a lot

(52:47):
of good young players, a lot of Rafters in them, right. Yeah,
I think Denver has a lot of good young players,
and you know, there's a lot of athleticism that people
don't realize. You know, Yes, there is no way Toronto
would not have won without Kawai Leonard, But there is
no way Toronto would have not one would have won

(53:09):
without Pascal Siak. Okay, there's no way they wouldn't have
won without Van Fleet. I mean their athleticism and the
players that they developed was really really good, and their
length was really really good. And then they went out
and they, uh, you know, a Box has always been
an athletic big man. And you know, by again, maybe

(53:30):
load management and reducing him to twenty minutes a game
from what he was playing made him look like he
was a rookie. And okay, see again, Doc, who won
the trade? Um? I think it remains to be seen.
I mean, you know it's it's it's plain and simple.

(53:52):
It was. If the Lakers win a championship, the Lakers
won the trade no matter what, well, unless I guess
unless Ian Williamson wins the championship with these two teams.
But if the lake Is win a championship, this is
a great deal to them. If the Lakers go up
and smoke, then they have no ability, you would think,

(54:13):
to recover for the next seven years. So they basically,
you know, this is that they're all in. They're all in,
and and the question is is this enough? And it's
hard to answer that until it's done. And I think
the risk that the Lakers take is the Pascal Siakam
type thing. Will they have enough athleticism to deal with

(54:39):
one of these teams, especially as the season goes on,
you know, and and that's you know, Golden State was
a super team, but they had a lot of athleticism
coming off the bench with a Goodala and Sean Livingston
those first few years. Okay, that people lose sight of

(54:59):
um and I think that today's NBA is very, very,
very athletic. And what happened to the Lakers at the
end of last year is that they weren't athletic. They
still had you know, you still had players that were
in decent resumes, but they weren't athletic. So they're going
to need a lot of athleticism. Davis is very very
very athletic to go along with that team, and that

(55:20):
may be hard to find. They need a combination of
shooting in athleticism to go with it. And I don't
know if that's there. A couple of weeks away now
from NBA free agency, of course, the draft taking place
just three nights from tonight on Thursday from Barclay Center
in Brooklyn Dock. We'll wrap it up before we go.
Quick thoughts and a couple of things here, Gary Woodland,
your US Open at Champion, What do you think? I

(55:41):
thought it's fantastic, and again I think what it what
really is great? And in trying to link the topics
that we talked about is too many parents want their
kids to play ones. You know, and everybody knows the
story about Woodland. He actually went to college on a
basketball scholarship and it wasn't until his sophomore year in

(56:04):
in in in or a second year in college that
he played golf exclusively. And I think there's an advantage.
And I think that you know, um, my friend's son plays,
and so he's one of the few people playing n
ci A Division one baseball and Division one basketball. And
too often right now, I think the parents are are

(56:25):
preoccupied and having a kids specialized when they're ten years
old and going and I think one of the reasons
we're seeing so many of these, you know, overuse injuries
is that in my day growing up, you would never
coached until you reached an old level. You just played
on the streets. Now, if you ask kids like my

(56:45):
son who's in n c A tennis and played hockey
growing up, I don't think he's played anything in his
life until now when he goes to work out with
other kids that wasn't supervised. And I think that, you know,
seeing somebody like Harry Woodland since clear message. You know,
let kids play everything. If they're going to be good,

(57:07):
then coach them up later and they're going to be better.
And I think you're going to avert some of these
injuries that we're seeing across the board. But everybody wants
the young superstar. They you know, they want these kids
to mature way too fast. And there's an emphasis you
know that that you know now now in baseball instead
of being a spring sport, is a fall in spring sport.

(57:30):
You know, soccer is both. Lacrosse is tend and tends
to be a spring sport. You know, we used to
allow kids to play you know, baseball, basketball, football, and
it was great and we've gotten away from that, and
I think, yes, it takes you know, you can coach
up anybody if you buy enough lessons and things like that,

(57:50):
but they all filtered to the same and you know,
seeing multi sports athletes excel, I think is a really
really good lesson, you know, and really really important. I
think it stops injuries in a lot of senses. Are
you watching the Women's World Cup at all? I guess
I'm beginning to, you know, as you know, I'm certainly
not gonna watch a thirteen nothing Thailand game, But you think,

(58:12):
what do you think of that thirteen goals celebrating even
after a nine, ten, eleven, twelve. I think it's professional,
Like I mean professional sports. I mean, put a team
out there, you have a goal differential, and you know
it's nothing. I don't really have that huge of of
an issue with those things, because you know, one of

(58:32):
the things is if I'm playing for Thailand and I
scored a goal and made a thirteen one, I'd want
it to be meaningful so that I'd want you to
be trying your best. I'd hate to, you know, like
if you're crushing me in a tennis set, okay, and
you've won twelve games in a row. I'd hate to
win the thirteenth knowing that you were giving me the game.

(58:53):
I mean that at least makes me feel good about
a certain sense. You know, when when if you were
the backup quarterback. Okay, you're the backup quarterback, and you
your Kyle Aletta, this ship Greg Susman, Kyle Aletta, okay,
and they put you in the game in a blowout
either way okay, okay, and you you score a touchdown.

(59:18):
Wouldn't you like to feel that the other team was
playing when you did it? Definitely? I mean would you
really be concerned about the score or them running it
up or would you really like to see what you
could do in the best thing so me? I mean,
this is not every kid gets a trophy. This is
the freaking World Cop. And you know you're out on

(59:39):
the field. You know it's not a heavy way. This
is not UFC where you know it can lead to death.
I'd want, you know, my backups to play. They want
to know that they scored a goal in the World Cop.
I mean you ever see the last kid on a
on a team and who hasn't scored before, how happy
they ought to score I mean Pro Sports. Final question

(01:00:03):
of the day, Edwin O. Carnassion acquired by the Yankees
yesterday they didn't have enough DH because they don't have
enough dhs. They believe Jean Carlos Stanton could play the outfield,
and he will do so starting tomorrow. He can play
the field. Did in the NL for you? Yes, Aaron
Judge should be back by this weekend, maybe next week
at the latest. He'll play right field every day, leaving
in Carnassion to be here everyday d but ultimately sending

(01:00:24):
Clint Fraser down. He was understandably pissed about it. What
do you think of the move? What do you think
of the decision? What do you think spot on Clint Frasier? Um,
they want him to go down and play the outfield
so that he can get because people don't want to
give up value for a twenty three year old d H.
You know, so essentially to me, what it says Number one,

(01:00:48):
I think Brian Cashman has become an excellent gentleman. It's fantastic. Yeah, okay,
I think that. You know, everybody says, oh, the Yankees
have a lot of money. That's true, but he spends
it wisely. He's built an organization from top to bottom.
When the Yankees bring up players, they actually look like
they've played baseball. You know. The Mets bring up players,
it's like you don't even think that they've ever played

(01:01:09):
professionally in their life. It's like a new experience, right.
You know. Rosario is ridiculously talented, but it honestly looked
like he didn't spend an hour in the major leagues.
And you know what the strange thing is, as opposed
to most of the kids that come from Latin America,
he's tremendously educated. He comes from a very upper class family.
His father is a judge in the Dominican Republic. His

(01:01:31):
mother is a successful business person. He's got a tremendous
amount of education. Um, I think that you know, essentially,
you know, Clint Fraser is the centerpiece of them getting
more pitching. And what would you give up to somebody
who you knew you had to d h at a
young age. Takes away the National League, it takes away

(01:01:52):
your Zach wheel is. It means he can't be a
piece for bum Gardener. So he the Yankees need to
prove that Clint Frees should can play of the outfield,
and I guess they don't want to experiment in the
Bronx fair enough. Dr Mitchell Rossins has been a blast,
A really good episode tonight, learning about the injuries that
Kevin Durant, learning about the injuries to Clay Thompson. How
will affect the Warriors and whatever team? Kevin Durant. So,

(01:02:15):
if you're the Knicks, would you sign him? Yes? Yes,
I have no other hope, no other hope. The whole
plan was Kevin Durant. Platts still has to be Kevin Durant.
I don't think you have a choice. I really don't,
because you know again, I would explore to see how
many more lottery tickets I could get. I I really would.
And you know again, what's really really interesting in the

(01:02:37):
Knicks is I go back to every big man my
entire life that people talked about. The first one I
remember was Kareem abdul Jabbar. It was either going to
be the Knicks of the Lakers. It was the Lakers.
Then you had Shaquille O'Neill the Lakers. Now you have
Anthony Davis. That being said, if I'm the Knicks, I

(01:02:57):
don't think I would have given up what the Lakers
gave up for a one year option of Anthony Davis.
I agree with you. I mean, I I think that
was just too high of a risk to take. Um.
I mean, I think that you just hope that you
bring in enough people here and you you you, you know,

(01:03:18):
you hope that R J R. R J. Barrett is
the best player in that draft, no doubt about it,
no noube about it. We'll break down the NBA Draft
and what happens on next week's show. That is Dr
Mitchell Rosalind I am Greg Sousman. Thank you so much
for hanging out with us this week. It's been a,
like I said, a total blast. I'm so excited to
do it next week. Thank you guys so much for watching.
If you haven't watched all our other shows, check them out.

(01:03:40):
They're all on YouTube. Just search Doc John, that's Mitch,
I'm Greg. Is your next week to buy it? But
every right night, good night,