July 15, 2019 • 56 mins
Dr. Mitchell Roslin and Gregg Sussman give you their thoughts on Russell Westbrook being traded for Chris Paul and how this shakes up the Western Conference! Plus, they comment on an instant classic at Wimbledon, plus touch on the snakebitten Mets!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's a radio network. What is up? Everybody? Welcome inside
Studio thirty four. This is Doc Jock. That is Dr
Mitchell rosalind I am Greg salesman. Doc. How's it going.
(00:23):
Everything's going great? Um. Did you get a chance to
watch that fantastic tennis match? That's That's exactly where I
wanted to start today's show, because, as I was saying
to you before we went on the air, I was
looking for a tuxedo yesterday and we went into this place.
We had to Wimbledon. I hope not to wear Wimbledon.
It's where to my wedding in four months. Um, But
(00:46):
the tennis matches on and luckily for us, we were
like an hour early to our appointment, so we just
sat there for an hour and a half and watched
the final set and the tiebreaker. Um. At Wimbledon, an
instant classic between Djokovic and Federal, the sixteenth major, I believe.
For for Joker, uh, you have twenty one already for
(01:09):
Roger Federer, he was going it's crazy to think that
three of the best players in the history of the
sport we're all playing at the same time, and Joe
and Jokers only two years old. Well, you know, I
think it even goes further than that. First of all,
let's start further than that that it was. It was
(01:31):
a fantastic sporting event. It was captivating. It was one
of the points that we make about baseball. And we
remember having this conversation with you that you go through
a lot of for him. But when you get that
playoff game, when you're hinging on every pitch, there's something
(01:53):
special about not having a clock. Absolutely, and that was
what I was thinking about yesterday watching that. That was just,
you know, that was two people playing to win who
were playing exceptionally, you know, and usually grass is a
(02:14):
serve in volley, and they have cut the grass differently
at Wimbledon to make the it's slower and less of
a serve in valia type game to play true a
tennis um And you saw long points, You saw the
up and down, You saw the fact that Federer actually
(02:34):
won more games, one more points, but lost the match,
had two champions, had two championship points to championship points,
and at thirty eight years old, played five and a
half hours of tennis, so five hours of tennis um.
The new rule that came into effect following the John
(02:54):
Issner and following last year where basically isn't it I
think played a seventy to sext eight matching, And then
last year in the semifinals there was a match that
went really long. In the finals were just absolutely awful
for the instituted the twelve rule, and I just wondered
when I was watching it, I thought that that rule
(03:15):
makes sense, but I was wondering in the finals where
both people are in the same boat. Like I, I
think that rule is absolutely necessary because you're if you
have it in the semifinals, you have it in the quarterfinals.
The person who has to play the marathon is it's
such a decided disadvantage that it kills the next match. Now,
I guess you can make the argument that on hot
(03:37):
days and and and you don't want to just you know,
people to get hurt. But if both people were there,
would playing it out be the end of the world.
But I had absolutely no trouble with the tiebreaker at
twelve twelve. Yeah, so I felt the same way. So
it's well, it's well, brings you essentially to one full
extra set play, which I'm sure that how they got
to twelve twelve. I wanted them to keep going. I
wanted it to be I wanted it to be like
(04:00):
we had seen before getting to twelve twelve. I had
this staff prepared for you doc. Per ESPN, Djokovic's win
over Federer is the third highest tennis telecast in ESPN's history,
based on overnights, trailing only Federer against Andy Murray back
in in a US Open quarterfinal match between the Williams sisters. Yeah, um,
(04:27):
you know, I actually would have thought it would have
been higher. It just seemed that a tennis crossed over
yesterday afternoon that everybody was talking about that match. So
there's so many things that I was thinking about. Number one,
what's absolutely incredible is that three people in an international
sport have dominated more than a decade. And I know
(04:49):
that we've all been hard on American tennis, with players
like Sam Query and John Eisner being able to reach
the quarterfinals, may be pop into a semis, usually making
it to a round of sixteen, but not really being
a viable threat to win a tournament. It's when I
(05:10):
was younger. Every few years we had a new tennis player,
and both on the male and female side, they peaked earlier.
I mean We had a little throwback with Coco graph
but Tracy Austin, Chris Everett Lloyd, who at that time
was Chris Everett actually dated Jimmy Connors. Jimmy Connors and
(05:32):
Chris Everett were a couple when they won the US Open,
both the number one tennis players in the world. She
broke through with sixteen. He broke through with John mckin robe,
Leon Borg. Then you went into Avon, Lendel, Sampris, Boris Becker.
Every few years you had new people coming and they
(05:54):
usually hit their stride young. It was the exception to
win big tournaments in the thirties. Um, what's incredible is
that no one's even come close. I mean, we see
young players approaching, but they're not able to break through.
(06:15):
Then we've had a few players like Warenka that have
won two majors, but they're really like a class beneath.
And we have players like Nisha Kari who are always
there but really can't seem to get home. But these
three guys with the except the only other person that
came up who was kind of taking off the track
(06:37):
by injury, you mentioned Andy Murray. Andy Murray was in there.
The three of their guys class for a while and
at least at their peak could could play with them
and was always there. But it's it's absolutely incredible. And
now get into the debate of who the greatest of
all time is? Now let me let me stop there,
(06:57):
because I want to get to it, no doubt about it.
But you were just talking about how you always have
the young and up and comer that will peak in
their early twenties and and then eventually by thirty kind
of phase out. And that's the most remarkable thing about
Nadal and Federate and now Djokovic, who are all in
their thirties thirty eight for Federate, I mean, it's remarkable
(07:19):
and nobody truly has come off in years to get
in their class. Yeah, and people are talking right now
about dominic theme like if you ask my my son
plays competitive tennis. So I know the names, you know,
and they talk about your part off from tennis from
um I'm probably pronouncing his name wrong, from Canada and
the kid who of of Greek descent with the t excepted,
(07:41):
but none of them have really you know that they've
each kind of show you something, you know in the
pre U s Open that they may show you a
little bit. None of them have really cracked through and
said the up and coming, Like I said, most people,
you know, we're expecting dominic theme saying he has the
most complete game, but seems all two years old. And
if you look at you look at people, they usually
(08:04):
break through earlier, if they're going to break through um historically,
and it's it's mind boggling that in an international sport.
And now the money in tennis has really really increased
based on endorsements, based on the fact that it has
(08:26):
an upscale audience, based on the fact that it's had
great star power, especially internationally, there are academies all over
the place. You know, we've all heard about Bullet Terry
in Florida, there's uns you know in Hilton Head. Internationally
in Spain. There's probably more money going into tennis development
(08:49):
than at any time in the history of mankind because
there hasn't been a great American. Patrick McEnroe has taken over,
you know, several years ago the U s t A.
So now if you're a top junior, the U s
t A actually finances your training for you, and these
guys just keep on going and that it's it's just
(09:11):
an unbelievable thing. I can't think of anything else in sports.
You know, it would be is if you know, following
Alex Rodriguez, following Ken griff E Jr. We've had Mike Trout,
it would be as if there was no Mike Trouts,
there would be no errand Judges, no nobody coming after, No, no,
(09:37):
you know, Clayton Kershaws to follow, say the Seaver and
Carton's of when I was growing up. It's just mind boggling.
It's crazy. And we've you know, you've seen it break
through a little bit more of the women's side where
it's Serena at least, but somewhat similar that Serena has
stayed at the top absolutely long. But it's still Serena
(10:00):
and everybody else. But that's what's really, really, really interesting.
So again, something I probably had more history, had Chris
Everett Lloyd. You had Martina Navatalova, then you went into
stephie Graph, then you had Monica Selling. Okay, you had
Martina Hangs for a very very short time, and you
had the Kim Kleister's you had coming. Now you have
(10:24):
Serena and no one else and everybody else coming, you know,
no one. You have people like Hallip who won Yesterday.
Each year there seems to be a number one player
in the world, but none of them are able to
sustain the kind of run that we have seen in
the past two besides, Serena now training exceptional athletes. I mean,
(10:48):
I think everybody agrees that Serena is the greatest female
tennis player. I think the only person that people would
put in her class would be Steffi Graph and probably
right underneath that Martina Navice Hellova. When you get into
the male side, it's a fantastic debate. I think that. Well,
it's funny because just continue this women's conversation for a moment.
I'm looking at the top ten women in the world currently. Okay,
(11:13):
I know Saonea Hallett because she's been around. Obviously, she
won yesterday. When last year is well, when I major
last year as well? I look at the number one
women's tennis player in the world. Do you know who
that is? You're you're a tennis fan? No idea right now?
Ashley Barty, right, who won the French Open? I don't
know who it is? A sports guy, yeah, no, clue,
(11:34):
you have not Naomi Osaka who you know, well, who
looked like she was up in common and now she's gone.
You know, the same exact thing with Sloane Stephen. Sloane
Steven's breaks through with the US Open and has gone Sayonara,
maybe it's the chocolate milk. Now she's still ahead technically
of Serena in the world rankings actually happening, like where's
(11:54):
the Madison Keys. She's over seventeen eight. Team Wosie Naki
was number one in the world. But Rosenaki is a
beautiful player, but she doesn't have the weapon to really
play with the top females when they play at their best.
She just doesn't have the power to play play with
those people. Um, she's a counterpuncher, more more rapt than
(12:18):
than that. But again, it's just incredible that no one
seems to be capable. Maybe it's we have so much
parity in these people. We ever gonna see this again?
You know we always used to think we we went
from Navatolova to Graph, from Graph to sell Us, you know,
sell Us to hang Us back to Graph. By the way,
(12:41):
Graph had two runs when you when you think about
it into the Williams period of time. But it's really
really strange. Maybe this is what we're going to see.
Maybe there's so many good players, so much parody that
there really isn't a freak of nature like we've seen.
I now bring up the men's rankings is currently and
(13:03):
it's Djokovic, Nadala, Federer, and then it is Dominic Theme
who you mentioned, is that potential up and comer. Then
Alexander Zverreev's Stefan He's got a complete game. That's what
I was thinking about. He he's the player that my
my son thinks has the real talent to break through. UM.
One of the things about men's and women's tennis, and
(13:26):
I want to get into trouble here because it's more
quality in tennis than anywhere else. Twenty two years old
is vere and he has a complete game. But in
the male majors, they play best out of five sets
in the middle of the heat. In France and Wimbledon
and the US Open, especially the US Open and even
(13:49):
in Australia, it's this summer that's a big difference than
playing best out of three. And what's also different about
it is that when you play college tennis and you
play low level tournaments and anything but the major's it's
best out of three, so it is a big step up.
(14:09):
But people two come back, especially when it's two two,
and not win the first match, but then come back
after a five setter and play the second match. Mentally,
it seems that it really is a progression that I
don't think you see on the women's side because they've
(14:30):
played best out of three their entire life, and they
played best out of three in the majors. On the
male side, they're playing best out of five, and that's
a huge difference. You know, Djokovic lost the second set
six one because when he got down his second break,
he was not gonna waste one iota of energy. Yeah, okay,
(14:52):
and it takes a lot of experience. I would never
tell my kid to do that because it is very
hard to turn it on and turn it off. The
only way you can turn it on and turn it
off like he did, is knowing that you've already been
(15:14):
in a fifteen round fight and you knew already have
survived the bell. That is nothing that a twenty two
year old that's never gone the distance. Usually when they
check out of the hotel, it's very, very hard to
get back into the room. Absolutely, it's you're absolutely right.
It takes so much experience and confidence in yourself to
(15:37):
know out of the hotel, check out of the hotel,
you're absolutely right, and then and go back to the
room back okay, and be able to do that. It's
very easy to say that on television when you're watching,
but it is you knew it. It's it's so different
to do that, and for him to be able to
(15:59):
have I always say, like, I watched my child play hockey,
which is a team sport, and watched him play tennis tournaments.
It's much harder to watch him play I'm telling you
you don't have kids yet, much harder to watch him
play an individual sport like tennis. It is so much
all right, he wanted to get into it talking about
Serena and now with the men, it's Feeder and Djokovic,
(16:22):
a billion majors, and each of them have a really
strong argument for being the greatest of all time. So
I would tend to think that if we walked out
of the studio on thirty four Street and we asked
people who's the greatest tennis player of all time, the
majority would say Federer. I agree with you. I think
that would be be and again has had the period
(16:47):
of time when Tiger Williams was dominant in golf. Federal
was like no other. He had a run it was
never ever seen. And think about how many years ago
that was with Tiger Williams. It was a long time.
Now basically had a time where he was making semifinals
and finals, couldn't win with the Djokovic Murray and Nadal
(17:12):
passed him by. Now comes back in the tail part
of his career to win majors again. Certainly didn't lose Yesterday.
I mean I think if there was ever a match
where there were two winners, it was Yesterday. Has the
most majors, has had longevity, however, Nadal has in forty matches.
(17:39):
The overall record is twenty four and sixteen in favor
of Nadal. So can you say that he is the
greatest of all time? Now, the Nadal record against Federa
is deceiving. It's not not deceiving. I mean it is
what it is. You are as it's sixteen, but on
(18:03):
clay it's fourteen and two better is not great on clay.
Nadal is great, the best ever on clay. So he's
won the French Open twelve times, right, and the other
slams of once, Wimbledon twice, in the US Open three times.
(18:25):
Now you know he won. I have it because I
have it open. He won the French Open from two
thousand five and two thousand and eight, and are all
in a rown two thousand ten through two thousand and fourteen,
all in a row to not participate in twenty sixteen,
and has won seventeen, eighteen and nineteen. So what do
(18:46):
you put a higher mock on overall record? Mind you,
a lot of times Federa has not played the French Open.
To be perfectly honest, um, he has skipped it because
it is not his surface. He's only one the French
Open one time in his career two and he has
(19:07):
skipped it several times in his career. Not his surface.
Or if you take away clay and you look at
grass and hardcourt, Bettera has a lifetime advantage over the
dal Purists may say that clay is the truest surface
(19:29):
because you have to put the most spin on the ball.
Many of the teaching academies are on hard true, which
is American stimulation of clay. Clay teaches you stroke production, spin,
becomes more important than anything else. You know, a hard
coret is a US invention because of practicality coming out
(19:53):
of California, grass has always been kind of like, you know,
an aloof aloof type surface that most people play on.
Then you look at it, probably on all surfaces. First
of all, Djokovic is probably the best hardcourt player that
ever lived, and probably if you played on all surfaces,
(20:18):
probably has the least up and downs, has a very
good chance. It's a little early. I know, he has
now up to what is a fifteen majors? Uh it is?
It is sixteen majors, So so he's too away from Nadal.
(20:39):
He has a very very good chance to finish higher
than all of them, and certainly has a claim. But
you know what's amazing is people don't like him as
much as Nadal. That's exactly what my next point was.
If you watched Wimbledon yesterday, nine percent on a dent
(21:00):
of the crowd was on Roger Federer's side. Everybody was
rooting for Federal. When it was Federal versus Nadal, everyone
was just cheering yesterday. It was all pro Federate. Why
he's that, doc, Well, Federer is the ultimate graceful champion
and an incrediblely nice person. And just you know, you
(21:25):
see his wife. He's now got four kids. He carries
himself well, he's got styled. He represents what tennis is about.
Everybody who I was watching was an outdoor event at
the country club was rooting for Federer except for one
person who was born in Serbia. You know, it was
the only person reading for joke Fi. Nate Doal was
(21:46):
just a hot throb when he came out. He was different.
He he would wear tank tops, he would show off muscles,
He had the Spanish doc good looks um. He also
played the game we've never seen violent strokes, incredible effort.
You would really really like him, like what you saw.
(22:08):
Woman just googled over him US and he knew it.
He would wear these provocative not like provocative, like you know,
short sleeves, outfite tank top outfits at the US Open
with long shorts, different style. He brought a different style
of tennis. Saw he really did. And then you had
(22:33):
Djokovic who was really tried to be more likable. It
was on the night shows to try to be funny.
Has been much more personable in the US Open, but
when he came on the scene, he was a winer.
He also was known as a tremendous talent, and people
questioned early in his career his heart and his endurance.
(22:56):
And I think he's a victim of the fact that
the other two was so popular and that the first
impression you make is a lasting impression, and I think
that combination has really really hurt him. I think the
same thing with Andy Murray. Andy Murray was perceived as
(23:18):
a whine now that he's had his hip replaced. Like I,
I just as casual tennis fan, of course, Like I
rooted for Andy Murray when he was at Wimbledon and
he went on that run. I rooted for him. I
liked him. He was likable to me. Djokovic to this day,
I just think it's like an a hole. But Djokovic actually,
when you watch him in the talk shows, he's actually tried,
(23:42):
he's actually funny. He's actually really, really, really tried. And
Murray had a has a reputation of being a much
more cantankerous, narcistic human being than Jocovic. So did Andy Roddick.
He also loved him well. Andy Raick was the only American.
It was the only and Andy Roddick. It's really interesting
(24:03):
how Andy Roddick's career. I think the perception is that
he underachieved, and he really truly didn't. And he was
a Wimbledon title away twice. He had Federa on the
edge in Wimbledon. If he had won either of those,
(24:24):
that would have been his second Grand Slam. I think
his career would be remembered differently. And now you really
see that it has been now I guess about six
or seven years since Andy Roddick retired, and he retired
at a very young age. Very much. Um. Andy Roddick,
(24:45):
actually I told you this once before, lost to Drew
Brees when he was when but Breeze was fourteen and
and there's a two year difference. Breeze was fourteen and
Andy Roddick was twelve. He lost to him in a
regional tennis twinter. You know, Roddick was playing up in age.
But Drew Brees is a hell of a tennis player. Um,
(25:07):
his career would have been remembered completely differently had he
won that second major. And again, no American has come
close to the finals. As I said, you have Isner
and Sam Query popping into the semifinals once. I think
they popped in. I think Queery was in the semifinals
(25:27):
of of Wimbledon last year, lost this year in the
quarters to Nadal, And isn't it I think the furthest
he's ever gone into major is the quarterfinals of the
round of sixteen. You know, they win two three matches
and they're really not players to go the whole way.
So who do you think is the greatest of all time?
(25:47):
For me right now, from answering that questioned, he has
the most majors. That's the most important thing to me.
It's Federer, even though he's lost overall to Nadal, because
it out, because it's on one surface, throw it out,
it's not worth throwing out. But so much of that
is on the dollar. Ny Dollar is the best player
(26:07):
in the history of the sport on clay. I think
if you put them on and even playing field, and
if such exists, but an even playing field, this is
when they play tennis and he has see that's the again,
I agree with you, but it's very hard to call
somebody the goat. The goat okay, and in a single
(26:31):
sport they lost to you too. Out of sixteen is
like what is it five seventy winning percent. It's very
hard to do that. It's it's if you're calling me
the greatest boxer of all time, but you knocked me
out like in the in the debate. You know it,
It's hard to do that. Yeah, it's you're You're right,
(26:53):
it is, um, but it's not. But it's But it's
not just Federer versus Nadal. Obviously you got to be
everybody else. But it's an individual sport. It is. But
Federer is one more times now he's older, he's four
years older. Okay, I'm just saying I was thinking about
(27:13):
it yesterday. It's difficult. I hear you. I agree with you,
I said, I agree with your answer. I think most
people would do it. I think that Djokovic has a
chance to end the debate one way, one way for all,
but again, he's not gonna be as popular, and popularity
means a lot. Like I don't believe that andre Agassi's
(27:36):
career approached Pete Sampras's career, But I believe that andre
Agassi was a more popular figure. Okay, but they're not
in this class. No, no, Um. If I was to rank,
I would put Sampras right underneath these three, um and
then I think you have you know, I think Borg
(27:59):
is right there in the same group. I think McEnroe.
McEnroe though had a very brief run, but it was
incredible during that run, and he took down Borg, who
was considered just amazing when I was a kid. I
mean Borg Borg one Wimbledon, I think five straight times.
(28:21):
Very impressive of course by the Urine Borius. This is
this is how you know how good Wimbledon was yesterday,
because here we are opening up in the first half
hour now of our program talking tennis, and that's that's
what the world was talking about yesterday. Let's move on though,
to what the world was talking about last week, because
there's a major trade in the NBA. You knew Daryl
(28:44):
Morey wouldn't be able to sit on his hands for
too long, and he didn't. He made a monster's trade,
which you know about already, Doc and I I haven't
got a chance to talk about it yet. It's Chris
Paul Fort Russell Westbrook. Obviously a lot of picks involved
as well. Eight first round picks traded and acquired by
and Presty since the NBA draft. Bunch of pick swaps
as well. What do you think of the trade? How
(29:05):
do you think of dynamical work. I think it was
a great move the Houston. I didn't understand all the picks,
to be perfectly honest. I figured it would be one
bad contract for another bad contract. And I think that
Westbrook has a higher upside than Chris Paul. Now we
(29:28):
talked about I think that both of their value has
been seismically reduced to what it once was. I I
don't think that anybody looked at either of those players.
If you were a have not and you said I
want to be a hal I don't think any of
(29:50):
us would have said, Okay, I want to start building
around Russell Westbrook. I don't think any of us would
say I want to start building around Chris Paul. So
I think it was on a slee and and maybe
the market had declined too quickly. I think it was
a trade of two declining stocks, and I think that
(30:10):
Westbrooks stock has more of an upside. And it was
also a trade of too bad contracts. So you take,
do you really want to pay Russell Westbrook forty million
dollars a year for the next three to four years?
Do you really want to play Chris Paul at several
years old or thirty four forty million dollars or of
(30:34):
your salary cap for the next three years. So I
think that it was But it was an excellent move
for Houston to try to yet a more explosive player,
and I think it was a reasonable move for Oklahoma
City to get more draft assets. I'm surprised Houston gave
(30:56):
the draft assets. I think it's again as signed the
number one, maybe there's not going to be a collective
ball getting agreement in a few years. Number two. Good
teams don't care about draft picks right now. Be good
teams don't care about trafficks, as you saw with the
Los Angeles Clippers, of course, um as the prime example,
going and giving all their draft picks to Oklahoma City.
(31:18):
I think with Russell Westbrook, so I think your analysis
is pretty spot on that it's too oversized contracts. Oklahoma
City knew that that Russell Westbrook wasn't enough ultimately, and
Houston knew that they had gone as far as they
could with this combination of Chris Paul and James Orton,
so swapping that makes sense. I think Russell Westbrook is
(31:39):
a better players. I think you're saying that he is.
I mean, he's a really good basketball player. He's a
really really good basketball player. But there's a bot in
the fact that his shooting has gone downhill, and even
more important, he didn't make foul shots. Russell Westbrooks great
(32:00):
is attribute was his athleticism getting to the rim, getting fouled.
Um at a younger version. We're looking at this in
r J. Barrett. R J. Barrett's career is going to
be determined by whether he gets to the foul shot
line and he hits his foul shots. If he does
those two things, he's gonna have an excellent NBA career.
(32:20):
Russell Westbrook has stopped hitting his foul shots and he
has regressed as a three point shooter. So is that
just a reversion to the mean at the parts of
the last year when I was watching, or is that
what he has become. You know, he did battle some
(32:41):
injuries last year, not that he doesn't always battle injuries.
When it comes to Russell, he's the most energetic player.
He gets to the rim uh and he gets fouled.
And the difference between Westbrook and Harden, who have both
played isolation basketball, is that Harden is a mendous foul
shooter and Westbrook hit his foul shots. Lynn that Westbrook
(33:07):
has got to and Harden can hit the three. That's
where their careers have dB A. Now, Westbrook is more
explosive than Harden, but Harden has been a body control.
I think, how is that tosome compared to everybody else
in the West. That's the way you have to ask. Now, Houston,
remember came with the Gamers. You would getting to the
(33:28):
Western Conference finals here before that game a game away
in the NBA Finals. I think we'll agree that Westbrook
from Paul is an upgrade. I agree with We agree
with that. So how much better are they on paper? Better?
We'll see how it plays out on the court. Again,
(33:49):
real sports and not strata matic baseball or strata matic basketball,
And it really depends how the components fit together. Now,
Harden and Westbrook have played eight together, and okay, see,
I would say that Harden was at obviously at a
different stage of his career, still an outstanding player when
they treated him, but he was a six man yet
(34:10):
he was on the court for all the significant minutes,
but he wasn't the go to guy on that team. Historically,
I would think that the Lakers too and the Clippers
too are better because I grew up with the idea
(34:32):
that bigger is better. Okay, it's very different. It's a
very different NBA exactly, So it's hard and even we
talked about this in the draft, that we think of
bigger is better. So if there's a six ten that
is completely athletic and a six four who's very athletic,
(34:53):
or somebody who can be a space eather like Zion Williamson,
you're historically taking the four were the five? Even though
we now say it's a god's league. When was when
was the last time a god went first in the
NBA draft? I guess Ben Simmons, but that was a
freak of a god who just signed a hundred and seventy.
(35:17):
I guess Markel Falls and that obviously was a terrible
pack technically he yeah, that's a disaster. Well, Cal Falls,
that's a disaster. But you're right. We talked about this
shor the NBA draft that like in today's NBA you
should be more cumfortable drafting players like J. J. Reddick,
who's going to help you. We'll see, um what becomes
(35:38):
I wanted to actually switch gears from the NBA because
that's the end of that trade. There wasn't all that much.
But you're a doctor, I'd like to ask you some
of these injury issues here. Zach Wheeler hit the i
L today due to right shoulder soreness. It was felt weak,
it felt not right, typical Bets fashion. Of course, Zach
Wheeler was their prime trade piece. The trade away within
the next fifteen days or so. Do you think exact
(36:01):
Wheeler now gets traded Do you think exactly the pitches
for the Mets ever? Again, you know, it's really really
hard to without any any sort of medical data. I
trust you want to trust myself. I think that um.
I think people are going to be skeptical of trading
(36:23):
for him on a rental basis or I mean, it's
always depends on what you're giving up. I mean, if
you give a low enough, the Mets are not going
to get anything that's significant. I actually thought if he
had a good start, even though people are guarding their prospects,
(36:46):
there were so many teams that need pitching, and Zach
Wheeler has huge potential. Zach will every time he goes
out is capable of putting up seven zeros, he may not.
He showed you at the second half of last year
that Zach wheel Is upside is probably as good as
(37:09):
any picture who was going to be on the open market.
I would say, with the exception of Madison Bumgardner, I
actually think that Zach Wheeler has the highest higher upside
than Marcus Stroman. Not necessarily a better picture, but a
higher upside, so that I think that if I need
seven zeros, and I think that good coaching, and and
(37:32):
I've seen Zach Wheeler really throw lights out at the
end of last year and even this year. If you
look at most of his innings, they've been good. He's
just kind of made one or two bad pitches a
game to get you out of that. So I would
if I had his medical records and it really and
his m R I was negative, I would give a
(37:53):
low level prospect for him because it would be worth
me giving away a nothing to get potential really three
or four quality starts out of him towards the end
of the year. But the tragedy for the Mets is
they're not going to get anything of value um, which
brings in the thought if you're not going to get
(38:14):
anything of value, and he's not going to get paid
a lot on the open market. Do you consider bringing
him back at a one year deal um next year
or something like that. And I don't know the relationship
that they have with him. I've heard through the grapevine
that he wants to go pitch for the Atlanta Braves. Wheeler. Yeah, well,
he's from Atlanta and he wants to go back and
(38:37):
pitch for the Atlanta to Atlanta should they won't Mets
your training for the best off of They don't. The
Mets don't operate that way. But this stupid I know that.
Rest of all, he's going to be a free agent
in in three months, so you can go wherever he wants.
There are two Whatever chance the Mets had of the
(39:00):
miraculous Yankee Red Sox recovery or sixty nine, Mets probably
went out the window with Wheelie getting hurt, because their
only chance was you know that they put together a
great starting pitching and now you're not even looking at that.
And it brings up a really interesting question that I
(39:21):
have for you, which is the kind of blueprint was
in baseball? Was you build around pitching that A lot
of people said you get young pitching and then you
can go find the position players. But as you just
talked about injuries, you look at Louis Severino, who's a
(39:45):
young pitcher. You look at Dylan Betances, who's a young pitcher.
You look at Matt Harvey, who was everything is gone
from potential cy young to Syanara. You look at even
somebody who was considered guarantee, like Chris Sale. I think
he's like two and nine this year at three and seven, No,
he's I mean he's better than that. I don't think
(40:07):
so sal has been good and he lastly starts been terrible.
But I think sale sales record on the year is
three or night. You're right, it's three or nine. In
the E E race is at four point to seven. Okay,
So the question is has pitching become so difficult to
(40:28):
predict and keep healthy? And what's also odd is that
we used to say, Okay, look at Walker Bueller on
Los Angeles, he's gonna be our guy now for ten years,
beautiful motion, throws beautifully and no different than what we
were saying about the Mets pitchers. And yet it seems
(40:51):
like you got your survivors like Max Scherzer's and the
Justin Verland is. But the young players that you think
are gonna be stud you know, you look at the Mets.
The gram has answered the bell most of the time,
but the rest of them have not. You look at
the Yankees. Severino is gonna be our horse for the
next few years. He's He's like, we don't even know
(41:13):
when he's gonna pitch again. So do you still build
around pitching or has this become such an unpredictable thing,
which goes into the other thing that we were going
to talk about, which is training and why is this happening? No,
So lasard to that is you have to build I
believe that good if you could find the pitching, that's
(41:38):
what what do you look for it? It seems that
we used to say young, they're gonna be healthy, but
it seems to almost be like they have to get
We obviously don't want them too old through the end
of their career, but it almost seems like there's less
risk in the John Stirs then there is in the
(42:02):
Matt Hobby's. You know, do you really want to be
extending these young pictures very very early on? What do
you want them to get into that sixth year and
see that they have the endurance before you go ahead
and do that. So I think that could shake Arietta.
You know, you know, look at these people each year
(42:25):
and the relief pictures. I've even talked about the relief pitches.
Real relief pitches seem like it's up and down. It's
worse than the market on uh volatility. So I think
that when it comes to pictures in general and what
to look for. The reason, you the reason that they
extend these young pictures is because they believe all of
(42:48):
these teams inevitably believe everybody's gonna break down. Every one
of these pictures are more likely to break down than not,
and they believe there's a better chance of them breaking
down later rather than earlier. And if they don't break
down later, they'll tend to be ineffective later because they
throw so many pitches when they're younger, which brings me
(43:11):
to my next But it's really not been true though.
It seems that there are some people Okay, and you
know he's on the IL right now, Max Ers, for example,
justin VERLANDA, it seems that they're the John Lester. There
are certain people that just c C C SA Mathews
(43:32):
and it's it seems that there are some people once
maybe you should be looking do they get up to
it's maybe it's that second contract when they've made these
thoughts that make them less volatile. We always thought younger
as better, there's less miles on the car. Doesn't seem
to be true. Going back and if this has been
going on for years, I remember everybody was enamored with
(43:54):
the Cubs young pitches when they had would and and prior.
Each of those eyes lasted about seven and a half minutes.
Then you looked at the Mets generation x K it
was it Ja Ka generation k Okay. I just exted
(44:15):
out of my mind, Peter Okay. I got no Pete
honest was traded for. It wasn't part of that, But
I just exed that out of my mind. But but
it was. It was is Ringhousing, Pulsifer and stuff. Those
those guys. If Pete Wilson's the guy that was the
number one draft pick, he actually had one or two
good seasons for the Reds. He had a lot of arm.
(44:37):
Pete Wilson. It was Pete Wilson. Yes, Pete Wilson was
supposed to be the best picture on that. So it's
just seems so volatile right now. And even a fine
Pete Wilson. Pete Wilson, Yeah, he was Bobby Wilson. It
was Wilson. Was look up Wilson pitching number one draft
pick Mets. I think it was Bobby. Bobby wasn't wrong.
(44:59):
There's two Bobby Wilson. Hold on, it was Wilson. I know,
I know there's a Bobby Wilson pitch for the Mats
like that. I know for sure he wound up with
the Reds. It was number one pick in the Major
League draft. I'm looking for it, New York. Let's go
have a New Year mess first round here. I don't
help us Wilson. He was supposed to be the best
of the three of them. Preston Wilson's not the Wilson
(45:22):
we're looking for that. Preston Wilson was Lukie Wilson's son.
It was nephew, No, his son, Preson was his son? Really,
Preston Wilson was his son. Bobby Jones, That's what I
was thinking. By Jones was in a hot throw and
he was three or fourth started. No, I'm thinking about
number one draft pick. He says he's the nephew of
(45:42):
Lukey Wilson. I was right, he's a nephew and stepson
of Stepson both right. I knew he was his nephew.
I knew it all right. Um, Wilson was number one
draft pick of the match. So and he had on
one overall. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It was supposed
to be the next time Seva. He wasn't. It wasn't
(46:05):
even close. It wasn't even His best year was direct.
So it's pitching. Do you still build around pitching? Yeah,
so pitching has always been such a major part of
the game no matter what. But to your point, it
seems like the Brewers are not. He threw pitching out
(46:27):
the windows. We don't care about it. We're gonna trying
to put more runs than you. And then he tried
to get a bunch of relief pitchers and say there's starters,
and then give me a couple of three innings, will
be happy, and and and and maybe you need to
have so many people that you should budget differently, that
you budget going into the year that you're gonna If
(46:50):
I'm looking at this from a probability standpoint, I'm budgeting
for fifteen and sixteen pitchers, and unless I'm convinced that
there's somebody that really can eat innings, I don't want
to pay him. I try to spread the money around
and rotate per se. I think to look at it
from a probability standpoint. Let me throw this out at
(47:12):
you because you you texted me earlier this week about
players and overuse and injuries in general. We're talking about
and I mentioned young pictures throw a ton before they
even get to the majors, and they have their Timmy John,
they have the surgery and used to be an article
about basketball and playing so much basketball when you're younger,
(47:35):
and that is resulting in more injuries. Do you believe
that to be true? I believe. I can't argue that
there overuse injuries, so I can't argue with facts. I
can say that I don't believe it's because people play more.
I think it's because they play more in a supervised manner.
(47:56):
I think that we need to take a look and
at the day here and look at it. When I
was a kid, basketball players they used to call it
the city game. People like Connie Hawkins playing on the street. Okay,
they used to talk about the best players playing in
the ructor park. These people played from early in the
(48:20):
morning too late at night with Ked's and PF flyers
on concrete. We used to see players coming into the
league that had strange shots. Forget about Lonzo Ball, but
we used to imitate Jerry Lucas. We used to imitate
the shot Jamal Keith Wilkes, really strange shoot shot happy,
(48:42):
Hashton Dick Barnett who used to bring his legs up.
And these were things that were learned on the school
yard that weren't coached. Now they play more supervised, more
stressful games, But I don't think they play more I
don't think hockey played. When your kid plays travel hockey,
(49:03):
you travel, and they played ten minutes of a thirty
minute game. They're not playing more hockey than if they
skate up and down a pond for eight hours. So
they're playing more supervised sports. I can't believe Willie Mays
came to the major leagues. He said, when they throw it,
I catch it. When when they you know, when you
(49:24):
know when they when they throw it, I can't I
hit it when they when I hit it, I catch it.
Something along those lines. He's all he did was played
baseball down in Georgia. Also in the news is Bob Gibson,
pancreatic answer, who was the one of the greatest pictures
and the most intimidating picture of all time, and one
(49:45):
of the greatest hitters and a phenomenal basketball player. Actually
played in the A B A. In basketball. Bob Gibson
played in the Negro leagues. He used to pitch every
two days. He had a very very long career. I
fe only to keep pitchcounts, and they didn't keep pitch counts,
and Nolan Ryan pitched forever. So I think there are
(50:05):
several things that go into it. But what I think
is happening is this emphasis on training, this emphasis on
having the next child prodigy, and child prodigies usually don't
work out. I mean, there have been a few Tiger
Woods Lebron have put people training, and I think the
(50:26):
way their training is not functional. And what happens is
you build up bulky muscles that exceed the strength of
what tendons and ligaments can bear. And I think we
need to take a step back and realize that, especially
until you're completely mature, that all training should be functional.
(50:48):
Resistance bans, maybe rods. If you want a kid to
build up his chest, put him in a swimming pool
and let him swim laps. Okay, teach him how to
do resistant bands, let him do put shops, let him
do chin ups, but don't put him on weight training.
And I think that's what's happening, is that the training
(51:09):
is creating muscles that essentially strong, that don't have an
even distribution of strength, that exceed what ligaments and tendons
can handle at very very young ages and talk and
I think it's it's not because they're playing more, they're
playing more stressful games. What happens today is that I
(51:31):
don't think my son, who played competitive sports, played a
tennis match until he was in college that wasn't supervised.
So they're playing more supervised, they're playing more tournaments, But
are they playing more I don't think so. Does that
make any sense to you? It does, Actually it does.
I think the thought is that being regimented and being
(51:55):
supervised will make them train smarter than going to play
three in the short term. Okay, this is what I
always tell people about their kids when they go into
school and the teacher says, your kid is can't sit still. Okay,
(52:15):
the teacher is telling the parents the truth. But here's
what the first grade teacher doesn't know. That person first
grade teacher doesn't know that Greg Sussman who can't sit still,
becomes like a media celebrity okay, and makes it in
life and does really really well in life. And that
parent is worried, Oh my god, is that my kid
going to have a happy life? And the teacher can't
(52:38):
bear in anything. So the answer to your question is
the training works to get you a kid to win
the next tournament or to get your kid onto the
travel game. But does it work to have them have
a long career. No one can give you that type
of data. Sure, And that's the hardest day of perspective.
(53:01):
You're one of the things I talk about in health,
it's we say we want value based medicine, but how
do we put value on medicine. We are very capable
of of monitoring short term thirty day outcomes because that's easy.
It's it's fine. So now should people have a less
of a procedure That won't help them as much in
three years, But the complication rate is lower in thirty days,
(53:26):
and that's the way the numbers take you, and I'd
allue the same thing as happening in sports. I'd be
an idiot to tell you that not sending your kid
to an academy is going to make them more likely
to get recruited if that's what they want to do,
or perform better in that next six month tournament. These
coaches are making a living for a while. However, I
(53:50):
don't know how many times you're throwing the baby out
with the bath water and the long term perspective, and
I don't know how we gather that information. I made
this point when we were talking about the US Open
and golf when Woodruff, I said, I thought it was
fantastic that he won the US Open in golf, and
he never focused on golf until he was a sophomore
(54:13):
in college, right he played college basketball. And I think
that the one lesson that I would tell you in
terms of as you're starting your family and and you know,
I have a few years even though I look younger,
everybody down is that it's a marathon, not a sprint.
(54:36):
And I think we're losing sight of the long term
objectives because when everything is a competition, the short term
metrics are really high and it's funny. I had this
conversation with fran McCaffrey, whose son is one of the
few too Division one two sports things, and Franz said,
(54:56):
you're absolutely right. He said, you know, I tried. I
have to Vision one basketball players who are now both
playing for me. He said, you know, both my wife
and I were coaches. I tried not to coach them
until they were thirteen and fourteen, and they came to me.
I wanted them to just play. And now, well, friend
mccanniford seems to be doing an okay job letting them play, right.
(55:20):
He said, you know, I'll coach the ship out of
him next year. Okay. And I you know, and and
and I began to coach them, but when they were young,
I think that you're absolutely right. More kids should just play, okay.
And they used to tell me Patrick was so skinny,
and now I have him in the weight room doing stuff,
but not while he was growing up. I just wanted
(55:42):
him to play. Just go out and play. Doc we're
at the time, but we'll go out and play next week.
We appreciate you. Washing make sure you can check us
out on YouTube. You check out and look for the
term doct jock. You find out all of our other
episodes by including all of our thoughts and everything that
went down in the n b A. He has been
(56:03):
an absolute pleasure. We're gonna be back next Monday night,
right around the same time. So you'd like to watch
us live, well, that's where you'll find us. He is
Dr Mitchell rosalind I, Am Greg Susan. Thank you so
much for watching and listening to Doc Jack. We'll see
you next time. Good Night,
It's a radio network. What is up? Everybody? Welcome inside
Studio thirty four. This is Doc Jock. That is Dr
Mitchell rosalind I am Greg salesman. Doc. How's it going.
(00:23):
Everything's going great? Um. Did you get a chance to
watch that fantastic tennis match? That's That's exactly where I
wanted to start today's show, because, as I was saying
to you before we went on the air, I was
looking for a tuxedo yesterday and we went into this place.
We had to Wimbledon. I hope not to wear Wimbledon.
It's where to my wedding in four months. Um, But
(00:46):
the tennis matches on and luckily for us, we were
like an hour early to our appointment, so we just
sat there for an hour and a half and watched
the final set and the tiebreaker. Um. At Wimbledon, an
instant classic between Djokovic and Federal, the sixteenth major, I believe.
For for Joker, uh, you have twenty one already for
(01:09):
Roger Federer, he was going it's crazy to think that
three of the best players in the history of the
sport we're all playing at the same time, and Joe
and Jokers only two years old. Well, you know, I
think it even goes further than that. First of all,
let's start further than that that it was. It was
(01:31):
a fantastic sporting event. It was captivating. It was one
of the points that we make about baseball. And we
remember having this conversation with you that you go through
a lot of for him. But when you get that
playoff game, when you're hinging on every pitch, there's something
(01:53):
special about not having a clock. Absolutely, and that was
what I was thinking about yesterday watching that. That was just,
you know, that was two people playing to win who
were playing exceptionally, you know, and usually grass is a
(02:14):
serve in volley, and they have cut the grass differently
at Wimbledon to make the it's slower and less of
a serve in valia type game to play true a
tennis um And you saw long points, You saw the
up and down, You saw the fact that Federer actually
(02:34):
won more games, one more points, but lost the match,
had two champions, had two championship points to championship points,
and at thirty eight years old, played five and a
half hours of tennis, so five hours of tennis um.
The new rule that came into effect following the John
(02:54):
Issner and following last year where basically isn't it I
think played a seventy to sext eight matching, And then
last year in the semifinals there was a match that
went really long. In the finals were just absolutely awful
for the instituted the twelve rule, and I just wondered
when I was watching it, I thought that that rule
(03:15):
makes sense, but I was wondering in the finals where
both people are in the same boat. Like I, I
think that rule is absolutely necessary because you're if you
have it in the semifinals, you have it in the quarterfinals.
The person who has to play the marathon is it's
such a decided disadvantage that it kills the next match. Now,
I guess you can make the argument that on hot
(03:37):
days and and and you don't want to just you know,
people to get hurt. But if both people were there,
would playing it out be the end of the world.
But I had absolutely no trouble with the tiebreaker at
twelve twelve. Yeah, so I felt the same way. So
it's well, it's well, brings you essentially to one full
extra set play, which I'm sure that how they got
to twelve twelve. I wanted them to keep going. I
wanted it to be I wanted it to be like
(04:00):
we had seen before getting to twelve twelve. I had
this staff prepared for you doc. Per ESPN, Djokovic's win
over Federer is the third highest tennis telecast in ESPN's history,
based on overnights, trailing only Federer against Andy Murray back
in in a US Open quarterfinal match between the Williams sisters. Yeah, um,
(04:27):
you know, I actually would have thought it would have
been higher. It just seemed that a tennis crossed over
yesterday afternoon that everybody was talking about that match. So
there's so many things that I was thinking about. Number one,
what's absolutely incredible is that three people in an international
sport have dominated more than a decade. And I know
(04:49):
that we've all been hard on American tennis, with players
like Sam Query and John Eisner being able to reach
the quarterfinals, may be pop into a semis, usually making
it to a round of sixteen, but not really being
a viable threat to win a tournament. It's when I
(05:10):
was younger. Every few years we had a new tennis player,
and both on the male and female side, they peaked earlier.
I mean We had a little throwback with Coco graph
but Tracy Austin, Chris Everett Lloyd, who at that time
was Chris Everett actually dated Jimmy Connors. Jimmy Connors and
(05:32):
Chris Everett were a couple when they won the US Open,
both the number one tennis players in the world. She
broke through with sixteen. He broke through with John mckin robe,
Leon Borg. Then you went into Avon, Lendel, Sampris, Boris Becker.
Every few years you had new people coming and they
(05:54):
usually hit their stride young. It was the exception to
win big tournaments in the thirties. Um, what's incredible is
that no one's even come close. I mean, we see
young players approaching, but they're not able to break through.
(06:15):
Then we've had a few players like Warenka that have
won two majors, but they're really like a class beneath.
And we have players like Nisha Kari who are always
there but really can't seem to get home. But these
three guys with the except the only other person that
came up who was kind of taking off the track
(06:37):
by injury, you mentioned Andy Murray. Andy Murray was in there.
The three of their guys class for a while and
at least at their peak could could play with them
and was always there. But it's it's absolutely incredible. And
now get into the debate of who the greatest of
all time is? Now let me let me stop there,
(06:57):
because I want to get to it, no doubt about it.
But you were just talking about how you always have
the young and up and comer that will peak in
their early twenties and and then eventually by thirty kind
of phase out. And that's the most remarkable thing about
Nadal and Federate and now Djokovic, who are all in
their thirties thirty eight for Federate, I mean, it's remarkable
(07:19):
and nobody truly has come off in years to get
in their class. Yeah, and people are talking right now
about dominic theme like if you ask my my son
plays competitive tennis. So I know the names, you know,
and they talk about your part off from tennis from
um I'm probably pronouncing his name wrong, from Canada and
the kid who of of Greek descent with the t excepted,
(07:41):
but none of them have really you know that they've
each kind of show you something, you know in the
pre U s Open that they may show you a
little bit. None of them have really cracked through and
said the up and coming, Like I said, most people,
you know, we're expecting dominic theme saying he has the
most complete game, but seems all two years old. And
if you look at you look at people, they usually
(08:04):
break through earlier, if they're going to break through um historically,
and it's it's mind boggling that in an international sport.
And now the money in tennis has really really increased
based on endorsements, based on the fact that it has
(08:26):
an upscale audience, based on the fact that it's had
great star power, especially internationally, there are academies all over
the place. You know, we've all heard about Bullet Terry
in Florida, there's uns you know in Hilton Head. Internationally
in Spain. There's probably more money going into tennis development
(08:49):
than at any time in the history of mankind because
there hasn't been a great American. Patrick McEnroe has taken over,
you know, several years ago the U s t A.
So now if you're a top junior, the U s
t A actually finances your training for you, and these
guys just keep on going and that it's it's just
(09:11):
an unbelievable thing. I can't think of anything else in sports.
You know, it would be is if you know, following
Alex Rodriguez, following Ken griff E Jr. We've had Mike Trout,
it would be as if there was no Mike Trouts,
there would be no errand Judges, no nobody coming after, No, no,
(09:37):
you know, Clayton Kershaws to follow, say the Seaver and
Carton's of when I was growing up. It's just mind boggling.
It's crazy. And we've you know, you've seen it break
through a little bit more of the women's side where
it's Serena at least, but somewhat similar that Serena has
stayed at the top absolutely long. But it's still Serena
(10:00):
and everybody else. But that's what's really, really, really interesting.
So again, something I probably had more history, had Chris
Everett Lloyd. You had Martina Navatalova, then you went into
stephie Graph, then you had Monica Selling. Okay, you had
Martina Hangs for a very very short time, and you
had the Kim Kleister's you had coming. Now you have
(10:24):
Serena and no one else and everybody else coming, you know,
no one. You have people like Hallip who won Yesterday.
Each year there seems to be a number one player
in the world, but none of them are able to
sustain the kind of run that we have seen in
the past two besides, Serena now training exceptional athletes. I mean,
(10:48):
I think everybody agrees that Serena is the greatest female
tennis player. I think the only person that people would
put in her class would be Steffi Graph and probably
right underneath that Martina Navice Hellova. When you get into
the male side, it's a fantastic debate. I think that. Well,
it's funny because just continue this women's conversation for a moment.
I'm looking at the top ten women in the world currently. Okay,
(11:13):
I know Saonea Hallett because she's been around. Obviously, she
won yesterday. When last year is well, when I major
last year as well? I look at the number one
women's tennis player in the world. Do you know who
that is? You're you're a tennis fan? No idea right now?
Ashley Barty, right, who won the French Open? I don't
know who it is? A sports guy, yeah, no, clue,
(11:34):
you have not Naomi Osaka who you know, well, who
looked like she was up in common and now she's gone.
You know, the same exact thing with Sloane Stephen. Sloane
Steven's breaks through with the US Open and has gone Sayonara,
maybe it's the chocolate milk. Now she's still ahead technically
of Serena in the world rankings actually happening, like where's
(11:54):
the Madison Keys. She's over seventeen eight. Team Wosie Naki
was number one in the world. But Rosenaki is a
beautiful player, but she doesn't have the weapon to really
play with the top females when they play at their best.
She just doesn't have the power to play play with
those people. Um, she's a counterpuncher, more more rapt than
(12:18):
than that. But again, it's just incredible that no one
seems to be capable. Maybe it's we have so much
parity in these people. We ever gonna see this again?
You know we always used to think we we went
from Navatolova to Graph, from Graph to sell Us, you know,
sell Us to hang Us back to Graph. By the way,
(12:41):
Graph had two runs when you when you think about
it into the Williams period of time. But it's really
really strange. Maybe this is what we're going to see.
Maybe there's so many good players, so much parody that
there really isn't a freak of nature like we've seen.
I now bring up the men's rankings is currently and
(13:03):
it's Djokovic, Nadala, Federer, and then it is Dominic Theme
who you mentioned, is that potential up and comer. Then
Alexander Zverreev's Stefan He's got a complete game. That's what
I was thinking about. He he's the player that my
my son thinks has the real talent to break through. UM.
One of the things about men's and women's tennis, and
(13:26):
I want to get into trouble here because it's more
quality in tennis than anywhere else. Twenty two years old
is vere and he has a complete game. But in
the male majors, they play best out of five sets
in the middle of the heat. In France and Wimbledon
and the US Open, especially the US Open and even
(13:49):
in Australia, it's this summer that's a big difference than
playing best out of three. And what's also different about
it is that when you play college tennis and you
play low level tournaments and anything but the major's it's
best out of three, so it is a big step up.
(14:09):
But people two come back, especially when it's two two,
and not win the first match, but then come back
after a five setter and play the second match. Mentally,
it seems that it really is a progression that I
don't think you see on the women's side because they've
(14:30):
played best out of three their entire life, and they
played best out of three in the majors. On the
male side, they're playing best out of five, and that's
a huge difference. You know, Djokovic lost the second set
six one because when he got down his second break,
he was not gonna waste one iota of energy. Yeah, okay,
(14:52):
and it takes a lot of experience. I would never
tell my kid to do that because it is very
hard to turn it on and turn it off. The
only way you can turn it on and turn it
off like he did, is knowing that you've already been
(15:14):
in a fifteen round fight and you knew already have
survived the bell. That is nothing that a twenty two
year old that's never gone the distance. Usually when they
check out of the hotel, it's very, very hard to
get back into the room. Absolutely, it's you're absolutely right.
It takes so much experience and confidence in yourself to
(15:37):
know out of the hotel, check out of the hotel,
you're absolutely right, and then and go back to the
room back okay, and be able to do that. It's
very easy to say that on television when you're watching,
but it is you knew it. It's it's so different
to do that, and for him to be able to
(15:59):
have I always say, like, I watched my child play hockey,
which is a team sport, and watched him play tennis tournaments.
It's much harder to watch him play I'm telling you
you don't have kids yet, much harder to watch him
play an individual sport like tennis. It is so much
all right, he wanted to get into it talking about
Serena and now with the men, it's Feeder and Djokovic,
(16:22):
a billion majors, and each of them have a really
strong argument for being the greatest of all time. So
I would tend to think that if we walked out
of the studio on thirty four Street and we asked
people who's the greatest tennis player of all time, the
majority would say Federer. I agree with you. I think
that would be be and again has had the period
(16:47):
of time when Tiger Williams was dominant in golf. Federal
was like no other. He had a run it was
never ever seen. And think about how many years ago
that was with Tiger Williams. It was a long time.
Now basically had a time where he was making semifinals
and finals, couldn't win with the Djokovic Murray and Nadal
(17:12):
passed him by. Now comes back in the tail part
of his career to win majors again. Certainly didn't lose Yesterday.
I mean I think if there was ever a match
where there were two winners, it was Yesterday. Has the
most majors, has had longevity, however, Nadal has in forty matches.
(17:39):
The overall record is twenty four and sixteen in favor
of Nadal. So can you say that he is the
greatest of all time? Now, the Nadal record against Federa
is deceiving. It's not not deceiving. I mean it is
what it is. You are as it's sixteen, but on
(18:03):
clay it's fourteen and two better is not great on clay.
Nadal is great, the best ever on clay. So he's
won the French Open twelve times, right, and the other
slams of once, Wimbledon twice, in the US Open three times.
(18:25):
Now you know he won. I have it because I
have it open. He won the French Open from two
thousand five and two thousand and eight, and are all
in a rown two thousand ten through two thousand and fourteen,
all in a row to not participate in twenty sixteen,
and has won seventeen, eighteen and nineteen. So what do
(18:46):
you put a higher mock on overall record? Mind you,
a lot of times Federa has not played the French Open.
To be perfectly honest, um, he has skipped it because
it is not his surface. He's only one the French
Open one time in his career two and he has
(19:07):
skipped it several times in his career. Not his surface.
Or if you take away clay and you look at
grass and hardcourt, Bettera has a lifetime advantage over the
dal Purists may say that clay is the truest surface
(19:29):
because you have to put the most spin on the ball.
Many of the teaching academies are on hard true, which
is American stimulation of clay. Clay teaches you stroke production, spin,
becomes more important than anything else. You know, a hard
coret is a US invention because of practicality coming out
(19:53):
of California, grass has always been kind of like, you know,
an aloof aloof type surface that most people play on.
Then you look at it, probably on all surfaces. First
of all, Djokovic is probably the best hardcourt player that
ever lived, and probably if you played on all surfaces,
(20:18):
probably has the least up and downs, has a very
good chance. It's a little early. I know, he has
now up to what is a fifteen majors? Uh it is?
It is sixteen majors, So so he's too away from Nadal.
(20:39):
He has a very very good chance to finish higher
than all of them, and certainly has a claim. But
you know what's amazing is people don't like him as
much as Nadal. That's exactly what my next point was.
If you watched Wimbledon yesterday, nine percent on a dent
(21:00):
of the crowd was on Roger Federer's side. Everybody was
rooting for Federal. When it was Federal versus Nadal, everyone
was just cheering yesterday. It was all pro Federate. Why
he's that, doc, Well, Federer is the ultimate graceful champion
and an incrediblely nice person. And just you know, you
(21:25):
see his wife. He's now got four kids. He carries
himself well, he's got styled. He represents what tennis is about.
Everybody who I was watching was an outdoor event at
the country club was rooting for Federer except for one
person who was born in Serbia. You know, it was
the only person reading for joke Fi. Nate Doal was
(21:46):
just a hot throb when he came out. He was different.
He he would wear tank tops, he would show off muscles,
He had the Spanish doc good looks um. He also
played the game we've never seen violent strokes, incredible effort.
You would really really like him, like what you saw.
(22:08):
Woman just googled over him US and he knew it.
He would wear these provocative not like provocative, like you know,
short sleeves, outfite tank top outfits at the US Open
with long shorts, different style. He brought a different style
of tennis. Saw he really did. And then you had
(22:33):
Djokovic who was really tried to be more likable. It
was on the night shows to try to be funny.
Has been much more personable in the US Open, but
when he came on the scene, he was a winer.
He also was known as a tremendous talent, and people
questioned early in his career his heart and his endurance.
(22:56):
And I think he's a victim of the fact that
the other two was so popular and that the first
impression you make is a lasting impression, and I think
that combination has really really hurt him. I think the
same thing with Andy Murray. Andy Murray was perceived as
(23:18):
a whine now that he's had his hip replaced. Like I,
I just as casual tennis fan, of course, Like I
rooted for Andy Murray when he was at Wimbledon and
he went on that run. I rooted for him. I
liked him. He was likable to me. Djokovic to this day,
I just think it's like an a hole. But Djokovic actually,
when you watch him in the talk shows, he's actually tried,
(23:42):
he's actually funny. He's actually really, really, really tried. And
Murray had a has a reputation of being a much
more cantankerous, narcistic human being than Jocovic. So did Andy Roddick.
He also loved him well. Andy Raick was the only American.
It was the only and Andy Roddick. It's really interesting
(24:03):
how Andy Roddick's career. I think the perception is that
he underachieved, and he really truly didn't. And he was
a Wimbledon title away twice. He had Federa on the
edge in Wimbledon. If he had won either of those,
(24:24):
that would have been his second Grand Slam. I think
his career would be remembered differently. And now you really
see that it has been now I guess about six
or seven years since Andy Roddick retired, and he retired
at a very young age. Very much. Um. Andy Roddick,
(24:45):
actually I told you this once before, lost to Drew
Brees when he was when but Breeze was fourteen and
and there's a two year difference. Breeze was fourteen and
Andy Roddick was twelve. He lost to him in a
regional tennis twinter. You know, Roddick was playing up in age.
But Drew Brees is a hell of a tennis player. Um,
(25:07):
his career would have been remembered completely differently had he
won that second major. And again, no American has come
close to the finals. As I said, you have Isner
and Sam Query popping into the semifinals once. I think
they popped in. I think Queery was in the semifinals
(25:27):
of of Wimbledon last year, lost this year in the
quarters to Nadal, And isn't it I think the furthest
he's ever gone into major is the quarterfinals of the
round of sixteen. You know, they win two three matches
and they're really not players to go the whole way.
So who do you think is the greatest of all time?
(25:47):
For me right now, from answering that questioned, he has
the most majors. That's the most important thing to me.
It's Federer, even though he's lost overall to Nadal, because
it out, because it's on one surface, throw it out,
it's not worth throwing out. But so much of that
is on the dollar. Ny Dollar is the best player
(26:07):
in the history of the sport on clay. I think
if you put them on and even playing field, and
if such exists, but an even playing field, this is
when they play tennis and he has see that's the again,
I agree with you, but it's very hard to call
somebody the goat. The goat okay, and in a single
(26:31):
sport they lost to you too. Out of sixteen is
like what is it five seventy winning percent. It's very
hard to do that. It's it's if you're calling me
the greatest boxer of all time, but you knocked me
out like in the in the debate. You know it,
It's hard to do that. Yeah, it's you're You're right,
(26:53):
it is, um, but it's not. But it's But it's
not just Federer versus Nadal. Obviously you got to be
everybody else. But it's an individual sport. It is. But
Federer is one more times now he's older, he's four
years older. Okay, I'm just saying I was thinking about
(27:13):
it yesterday. It's difficult. I hear you. I agree with you,
I said, I agree with your answer. I think most
people would do it. I think that Djokovic has a
chance to end the debate one way, one way for all,
but again, he's not gonna be as popular, and popularity
means a lot. Like I don't believe that andre Agassi's
(27:36):
career approached Pete Sampras's career, But I believe that andre
Agassi was a more popular figure. Okay, but they're not
in this class. No, no, Um. If I was to rank,
I would put Sampras right underneath these three, um and
then I think you have you know, I think Borg
(27:59):
is right there in the same group. I think McEnroe.
McEnroe though had a very brief run, but it was
incredible during that run, and he took down Borg, who
was considered just amazing when I was a kid. I
mean Borg Borg one Wimbledon, I think five straight times.
(28:21):
Very impressive of course by the Urine Borius. This is
this is how you know how good Wimbledon was yesterday,
because here we are opening up in the first half
hour now of our program talking tennis, and that's that's
what the world was talking about yesterday. Let's move on though,
to what the world was talking about last week, because
there's a major trade in the NBA. You knew Daryl
(28:44):
Morey wouldn't be able to sit on his hands for
too long, and he didn't. He made a monster's trade,
which you know about already, Doc and I I haven't
got a chance to talk about it yet. It's Chris
Paul Fort Russell Westbrook. Obviously a lot of picks involved
as well. Eight first round picks traded and acquired by
and Presty since the NBA draft. Bunch of pick swaps
as well. What do you think of the trade? How
(29:05):
do you think of dynamical work. I think it was
a great move the Houston. I didn't understand all the picks,
to be perfectly honest. I figured it would be one
bad contract for another bad contract. And I think that
Westbrook has a higher upside than Chris Paul. Now we
(29:28):
talked about I think that both of their value has
been seismically reduced to what it once was. I I
don't think that anybody looked at either of those players.
If you were a have not and you said I
want to be a hal I don't think any of
(29:50):
us would have said, Okay, I want to start building
around Russell Westbrook. I don't think any of us would
say I want to start building around Chris Paul. So
I think it was on a slee and and maybe
the market had declined too quickly. I think it was
a trade of two declining stocks, and I think that
(30:10):
Westbrooks stock has more of an upside. And it was
also a trade of too bad contracts. So you take,
do you really want to pay Russell Westbrook forty million
dollars a year for the next three to four years?
Do you really want to play Chris Paul at several
years old or thirty four forty million dollars or of
(30:34):
your salary cap for the next three years. So I
think that it was But it was an excellent move
for Houston to try to yet a more explosive player,
and I think it was a reasonable move for Oklahoma
City to get more draft assets. I'm surprised Houston gave
(30:56):
the draft assets. I think it's again as signed the
number one, maybe there's not going to be a collective
ball getting agreement in a few years. Number two. Good
teams don't care about draft picks right now. Be good
teams don't care about trafficks, as you saw with the
Los Angeles Clippers, of course, um as the prime example,
going and giving all their draft picks to Oklahoma City.
(31:18):
I think with Russell Westbrook, so I think your analysis
is pretty spot on that it's too oversized contracts. Oklahoma
City knew that that Russell Westbrook wasn't enough ultimately, and
Houston knew that they had gone as far as they
could with this combination of Chris Paul and James Orton,
so swapping that makes sense. I think Russell Westbrook is
(31:39):
a better players. I think you're saying that he is.
I mean, he's a really good basketball player. He's a
really really good basketball player. But there's a bot in
the fact that his shooting has gone downhill, and even
more important, he didn't make foul shots. Russell Westbrooks great
(32:00):
is attribute was his athleticism getting to the rim, getting fouled.
Um at a younger version. We're looking at this in
r J. Barrett. R J. Barrett's career is going to
be determined by whether he gets to the foul shot
line and he hits his foul shots. If he does
those two things, he's gonna have an excellent NBA career.
(32:20):
Russell Westbrook has stopped hitting his foul shots and he
has regressed as a three point shooter. So is that
just a reversion to the mean at the parts of
the last year when I was watching, or is that
what he has become. You know, he did battle some
(32:41):
injuries last year, not that he doesn't always battle injuries.
When it comes to Russell, he's the most energetic player.
He gets to the rim uh and he gets fouled.
And the difference between Westbrook and Harden, who have both
played isolation basketball, is that Harden is a mendous foul
shooter and Westbrook hit his foul shots. Lynn that Westbrook
(33:07):
has got to and Harden can hit the three. That's
where their careers have dB A. Now, Westbrook is more
explosive than Harden, but Harden has been a body control.
I think, how is that tosome compared to everybody else
in the West. That's the way you have to ask. Now, Houston,
remember came with the Gamers. You would getting to the
(33:28):
Western Conference finals here before that game a game away
in the NBA Finals. I think we'll agree that Westbrook
from Paul is an upgrade. I agree with We agree
with that. So how much better are they on paper? Better?
We'll see how it plays out on the court. Again,
(33:49):
real sports and not strata matic baseball or strata matic basketball,
And it really depends how the components fit together. Now,
Harden and Westbrook have played eight together, and okay, see,
I would say that Harden was at obviously at a
different stage of his career, still an outstanding player when
they treated him, but he was a six man yet
(34:10):
he was on the court for all the significant minutes,
but he wasn't the go to guy on that team. Historically,
I would think that the Lakers too and the Clippers
too are better because I grew up with the idea
(34:32):
that bigger is better. Okay, it's very different. It's a
very different NBA exactly, So it's hard and even we
talked about this in the draft, that we think of
bigger is better. So if there's a six ten that
is completely athletic and a six four who's very athletic,
(34:53):
or somebody who can be a space eather like Zion Williamson,
you're historically taking the four were the five? Even though
we now say it's a god's league. When was when
was the last time a god went first in the
NBA draft? I guess Ben Simmons, but that was a
freak of a god who just signed a hundred and seventy.
(35:17):
I guess Markel Falls and that obviously was a terrible
pack technically he yeah, that's a disaster. Well, Cal Falls,
that's a disaster. But you're right. We talked about this
shor the NBA draft that like in today's NBA you
should be more cumfortable drafting players like J. J. Reddick,
who's going to help you. We'll see, um what becomes
(35:38):
I wanted to actually switch gears from the NBA because
that's the end of that trade. There wasn't all that much.
But you're a doctor, I'd like to ask you some
of these injury issues here. Zach Wheeler hit the i
L today due to right shoulder soreness. It was felt weak,
it felt not right, typical Bets fashion. Of course, Zach
Wheeler was their prime trade piece. The trade away within
the next fifteen days or so. Do you think exact
(36:01):
Wheeler now gets traded Do you think exactly the pitches
for the Mets ever? Again, you know, it's really really
hard to without any any sort of medical data. I
trust you want to trust myself. I think that um.
I think people are going to be skeptical of trading
(36:23):
for him on a rental basis or I mean, it's
always depends on what you're giving up. I mean, if
you give a low enough, the Mets are not going
to get anything that's significant. I actually thought if he
had a good start, even though people are guarding their prospects,
(36:46):
there were so many teams that need pitching, and Zach
Wheeler has huge potential. Zach will every time he goes
out is capable of putting up seven zeros, he may not.
He showed you at the second half of last year
that Zach wheel Is upside is probably as good as
(37:09):
any picture who was going to be on the open market.
I would say, with the exception of Madison Bumgardner, I
actually think that Zach Wheeler has the highest higher upside
than Marcus Stroman. Not necessarily a better picture, but a
higher upside, so that I think that if I need
seven zeros, and I think that good coaching, and and
(37:32):
I've seen Zach Wheeler really throw lights out at the
end of last year and even this year. If you
look at most of his innings, they've been good. He's
just kind of made one or two bad pitches a
game to get you out of that. So I would
if I had his medical records and it really and
his m R I was negative, I would give a
(37:53):
low level prospect for him because it would be worth
me giving away a nothing to get potential really three
or four quality starts out of him towards the end
of the year. But the tragedy for the Mets is
they're not going to get anything of value um, which
brings in the thought if you're not going to get
(38:14):
anything of value, and he's not going to get paid
a lot on the open market. Do you consider bringing
him back at a one year deal um next year
or something like that. And I don't know the relationship
that they have with him. I've heard through the grapevine
that he wants to go pitch for the Atlanta Braves. Wheeler. Yeah, well,
he's from Atlanta and he wants to go back and
(38:37):
pitch for the Atlanta to Atlanta should they won't Mets
your training for the best off of They don't. The
Mets don't operate that way. But this stupid I know that.
Rest of all, he's going to be a free agent
in in three months, so you can go wherever he wants.
There are two Whatever chance the Mets had of the
(39:00):
miraculous Yankee Red Sox recovery or sixty nine, Mets probably
went out the window with Wheelie getting hurt, because their
only chance was you know that they put together a
great starting pitching and now you're not even looking at that.
And it brings up a really interesting question that I
(39:21):
have for you, which is the kind of blueprint was
in baseball? Was you build around pitching that A lot
of people said you get young pitching and then you
can go find the position players. But as you just
talked about injuries, you look at Louis Severino, who's a
(39:45):
young pitcher. You look at Dylan Betances, who's a young pitcher.
You look at Matt Harvey, who was everything is gone
from potential cy young to Syanara. You look at even
somebody who was considered guarantee, like Chris Sale. I think
he's like two and nine this year at three and seven, No,
he's I mean he's better than that. I don't think
(40:07):
so sal has been good and he lastly starts been terrible.
But I think sale sales record on the year is
three or night. You're right, it's three or nine. In
the E E race is at four point to seven. Okay,
So the question is has pitching become so difficult to
(40:28):
predict and keep healthy? And what's also odd is that
we used to say, Okay, look at Walker Bueller on
Los Angeles, he's gonna be our guy now for ten years,
beautiful motion, throws beautifully and no different than what we
were saying about the Mets pitchers. And yet it seems
(40:51):
like you got your survivors like Max Scherzer's and the
Justin Verland is. But the young players that you think
are gonna be stud you know, you look at the Mets.
The gram has answered the bell most of the time,
but the rest of them have not. You look at
the Yankees. Severino is gonna be our horse for the
next few years. He's He's like, we don't even know
(41:13):
when he's gonna pitch again. So do you still build
around pitching or has this become such an unpredictable thing,
which goes into the other thing that we were going
to talk about, which is training and why is this happening? No,
So lasard to that is you have to build I
believe that good if you could find the pitching, that's
(41:38):
what what do you look for it? It seems that
we used to say young, they're gonna be healthy, but
it seems to almost be like they have to get
We obviously don't want them too old through the end
of their career, but it almost seems like there's less
risk in the John Stirs then there is in the
(42:02):
Matt Hobby's. You know, do you really want to be
extending these young pictures very very early on? What do
you want them to get into that sixth year and
see that they have the endurance before you go ahead
and do that. So I think that could shake Arietta.
You know, you know, look at these people each year
(42:25):
and the relief pictures. I've even talked about the relief pitches.
Real relief pitches seem like it's up and down. It's
worse than the market on uh volatility. So I think
that when it comes to pictures in general and what
to look for. The reason, you the reason that they
extend these young pictures is because they believe all of
(42:48):
these teams inevitably believe everybody's gonna break down. Every one
of these pictures are more likely to break down than not,
and they believe there's a better chance of them breaking
down later rather than earlier. And if they don't break
down later, they'll tend to be ineffective later because they
throw so many pitches when they're younger, which brings me
(43:11):
to my next But it's really not been true though.
It seems that there are some people Okay, and you
know he's on the IL right now, Max Ers, for example,
justin VERLANDA, it seems that they're the John Lester. There
are certain people that just c C C SA Mathews
(43:32):
and it's it seems that there are some people once
maybe you should be looking do they get up to
it's maybe it's that second contract when they've made these
thoughts that make them less volatile. We always thought younger
as better, there's less miles on the car. Doesn't seem
to be true. Going back and if this has been
going on for years, I remember everybody was enamored with
(43:54):
the Cubs young pitches when they had would and and prior.
Each of those eyes lasted about seven and a half minutes.
Then you looked at the Mets generation x K it
was it Ja Ka generation k Okay. I just exted
(44:15):
out of my mind, Peter Okay. I got no Pete
honest was traded for. It wasn't part of that, But
I just exed that out of my mind. But but
it was. It was is Ringhousing, Pulsifer and stuff. Those
those guys. If Pete Wilson's the guy that was the
number one draft pick, he actually had one or two
good seasons for the Reds. He had a lot of arm.
(44:37):
Pete Wilson. It was Pete Wilson. Yes, Pete Wilson was
supposed to be the best picture on that. So it's
just seems so volatile right now. And even a fine
Pete Wilson. Pete Wilson, Yeah, he was Bobby Wilson. It
was Wilson. Was look up Wilson pitching number one draft
pick Mets. I think it was Bobby. Bobby wasn't wrong.
(44:59):
There's two Bobby Wilson. Hold on, it was Wilson. I know,
I know there's a Bobby Wilson pitch for the Mats
like that. I know for sure he wound up with
the Reds. It was number one pick in the Major
League draft. I'm looking for it, New York. Let's go
have a New Year mess first round here. I don't
help us Wilson. He was supposed to be the best
of the three of them. Preston Wilson's not the Wilson
(45:22):
we're looking for that. Preston Wilson was Lukie Wilson's son.
It was nephew, No, his son, Preson was his son? Really,
Preston Wilson was his son. Bobby Jones, That's what I
was thinking. By Jones was in a hot throw and
he was three or fourth started. No, I'm thinking about
number one draft pick. He says he's the nephew of
(45:42):
Lukey Wilson. I was right, he's a nephew and stepson
of Stepson both right. I knew he was his nephew.
I knew it all right. Um, Wilson was number one
draft pick of the match. So and he had on
one overall. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It was supposed
to be the next time Seva. He wasn't. It wasn't
(46:05):
even close. It wasn't even His best year was direct.
So it's pitching. Do you still build around pitching? Yeah,
so pitching has always been such a major part of
the game no matter what. But to your point, it
seems like the Brewers are not. He threw pitching out
(46:27):
the windows. We don't care about it. We're gonna trying
to put more runs than you. And then he tried
to get a bunch of relief pitchers and say there's starters,
and then give me a couple of three innings, will
be happy, and and and and maybe you need to
have so many people that you should budget differently, that
you budget going into the year that you're gonna If
(46:50):
I'm looking at this from a probability standpoint, I'm budgeting
for fifteen and sixteen pitchers, and unless I'm convinced that
there's somebody that really can eat innings, I don't want
to pay him. I try to spread the money around
and rotate per se. I think to look at it
from a probability standpoint. Let me throw this out at
(47:12):
you because you you texted me earlier this week about
players and overuse and injuries in general. We're talking about
and I mentioned young pictures throw a ton before they
even get to the majors, and they have their Timmy John,
they have the surgery and used to be an article
about basketball and playing so much basketball when you're younger,
(47:35):
and that is resulting in more injuries. Do you believe
that to be true? I believe. I can't argue that
there overuse injuries, so I can't argue with facts. I
can say that I don't believe it's because people play more.
I think it's because they play more in a supervised manner.
(47:56):
I think that we need to take a look and
at the day here and look at it. When I
was a kid, basketball players they used to call it
the city game. People like Connie Hawkins playing on the street. Okay,
they used to talk about the best players playing in
the ructor park. These people played from early in the
(48:20):
morning too late at night with Ked's and PF flyers
on concrete. We used to see players coming into the
league that had strange shots. Forget about Lonzo Ball, but
we used to imitate Jerry Lucas. We used to imitate
the shot Jamal Keith Wilkes, really strange shoot shot happy,
(48:42):
Hashton Dick Barnett who used to bring his legs up.
And these were things that were learned on the school
yard that weren't coached. Now they play more supervised, more
stressful games, But I don't think they play more I
don't think hockey played. When your kid plays travel hockey,
(49:03):
you travel, and they played ten minutes of a thirty
minute game. They're not playing more hockey than if they
skate up and down a pond for eight hours. So
they're playing more supervised sports. I can't believe Willie Mays
came to the major leagues. He said, when they throw it,
I catch it. When when they you know, when you
(49:24):
know when they when they throw it, I can't I
hit it when they when I hit it, I catch it.
Something along those lines. He's all he did was played
baseball down in Georgia. Also in the news is Bob Gibson,
pancreatic answer, who was the one of the greatest pictures
and the most intimidating picture of all time, and one
(49:45):
of the greatest hitters and a phenomenal basketball player. Actually
played in the A B A. In basketball. Bob Gibson
played in the Negro leagues. He used to pitch every
two days. He had a very very long career. I
fe only to keep pitchcounts, and they didn't keep pitch counts,
and Nolan Ryan pitched forever. So I think there are
(50:05):
several things that go into it. But what I think
is happening is this emphasis on training, this emphasis on
having the next child prodigy, and child prodigies usually don't
work out. I mean, there have been a few Tiger
Woods Lebron have put people training, and I think the
(50:26):
way their training is not functional. And what happens is
you build up bulky muscles that exceed the strength of
what tendons and ligaments can bear. And I think we
need to take a step back and realize that, especially
until you're completely mature, that all training should be functional.
(50:48):
Resistance bans, maybe rods. If you want a kid to
build up his chest, put him in a swimming pool
and let him swim laps. Okay, teach him how to
do resistant bands, let him do put shops, let him
do chin ups, but don't put him on weight training.
And I think that's what's happening, is that the training
(51:09):
is creating muscles that essentially strong, that don't have an
even distribution of strength, that exceed what ligaments and tendons
can handle at very very young ages and talk and
I think it's it's not because they're playing more, they're
playing more stressful games. What happens today is that I
(51:31):
don't think my son, who played competitive sports, played a
tennis match until he was in college that wasn't supervised.
So they're playing more supervised, they're playing more tournaments, But
are they playing more I don't think so. Does that
make any sense to you? It does, Actually it does.
I think the thought is that being regimented and being
(51:55):
supervised will make them train smarter than going to play
three in the short term. Okay, this is what I
always tell people about their kids when they go into
school and the teacher says, your kid is can't sit still. Okay,
(52:15):
the teacher is telling the parents the truth. But here's
what the first grade teacher doesn't know. That person first
grade teacher doesn't know that Greg Sussman who can't sit still,
becomes like a media celebrity okay, and makes it in
life and does really really well in life. And that
parent is worried, Oh my god, is that my kid
going to have a happy life? And the teacher can't
(52:38):
bear in anything. So the answer to your question is
the training works to get you a kid to win
the next tournament or to get your kid onto the
travel game. But does it work to have them have
a long career. No one can give you that type
of data. Sure, And that's the hardest day of perspective.
(53:01):
You're one of the things I talk about in health,
it's we say we want value based medicine, but how
do we put value on medicine. We are very capable
of of monitoring short term thirty day outcomes because that's easy.
It's it's fine. So now should people have a less
of a procedure That won't help them as much in
three years, But the complication rate is lower in thirty days,
(53:26):
and that's the way the numbers take you, and I'd
allue the same thing as happening in sports. I'd be
an idiot to tell you that not sending your kid
to an academy is going to make them more likely
to get recruited if that's what they want to do,
or perform better in that next six month tournament. These
coaches are making a living for a while. However, I
(53:50):
don't know how many times you're throwing the baby out
with the bath water and the long term perspective, and
I don't know how we gather that information. I made
this point when we were talking about the US Open
and golf when Woodruff, I said, I thought it was
fantastic that he won the US Open in golf, and
he never focused on golf until he was a sophomore
(54:13):
in college, right he played college basketball. And I think
that the one lesson that I would tell you in
terms of as you're starting your family and and you know,
I have a few years even though I look younger,
everybody down is that it's a marathon, not a sprint.
(54:36):
And I think we're losing sight of the long term
objectives because when everything is a competition, the short term
metrics are really high and it's funny. I had this
conversation with fran McCaffrey, whose son is one of the
few too Division one two sports things, and Franz said,
(54:56):
you're absolutely right. He said, you know, I tried. I
have to Vision one basketball players who are now both
playing for me. He said, you know, both my wife
and I were coaches. I tried not to coach them
until they were thirteen and fourteen, and they came to me.
I wanted them to just play. And now, well, friend
mccanniford seems to be doing an okay job letting them play, right.
(55:20):
He said, you know, I'll coach the ship out of
him next year. Okay. And I you know, and and
and I began to coach them, but when they were young,
I think that you're absolutely right. More kids should just play, okay.
And they used to tell me Patrick was so skinny,
and now I have him in the weight room doing stuff,
but not while he was growing up. I just wanted
(55:42):
him to play. Just go out and play. Doc we're
at the time, but we'll go out and play next week.
We appreciate you. Washing make sure you can check us
out on YouTube. You check out and look for the
term doct jock. You find out all of our other
episodes by including all of our thoughts and everything that
went down in the n b A. He has been
(56:03):
an absolute pleasure. We're gonna be back next Monday night,
right around the same time. So you'd like to watch
us live, well, that's where you'll find us. He is
Dr Mitchell rosalind I, Am Greg Susan. Thank you so
much for watching and listening to Doc Jack. We'll see
you next time. Good Night,
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