Jemele Hill - Cultural Controversy

In this episode, Mike and Ephraim sit down with Emmy-award-winning journalist, author, podcaster and activist Jemele Hill for a candid conversation about her most defining moments.

Jemele starts out talking about her origin story, why she will always stand 10 toes behind her hometown of Detroit and her inspiration behind becoming a journalist.

Then, Jemele gives her keys to crafting the perfect social media clapbacks. She also shares a shocking story about receiving hate mail that caught the FBIs attention.

As her friend and colleague for 20 years, Mike asks Jemele about how mental health has impacted her personal and professional career. She reveals her biggest addiction that keeps her grounded—golf.

Jemele divulges to Ephraim her decision to take her husband's last name. Plus, in this week's Unfiltered segment, Jemele tells the story about how leaving ESPN on her terms catapulted her to the next level of her career.

You can listen to new episodes of DTBT every Thursday at 6 a.m. EST on iHeart or wherever you listen to podcasts. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Y'all miss the inflection collective father for a connected reflective
for perspective, perspected, defensive, sh no cat despect facts of
kick back here fit that?

Speaker 2 (00:14):
All right, Welcome back to another edition of the Done
There Been That Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Hill. Of
course I can't do this alone. I could, but it's
better when I get my boy with me.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Get Yeah, it'd be boring if you just sitting up
here talking about yourself.

Speaker 4 (00:27):
No, I wouldn't be boring. I don't think it'd be born.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I can talk about my relationships and give relationship advice on.

Speaker 5 (00:33):
Right, that's for another day.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
I am such such an expert at relationships. You got
to hear more about that coming up on other episodes. Man,
but I'm so excited what not to do? Yeah, I mean,
but that's what you're supposed to do. Sometimes you got
to tell people what not to get because of what
you've gone through.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
All right, Well we've done there, stops enough about us.
We have a guest here. You guys go way way back.
We go way back. But you go way way back,
we go back. Why don't you give her her proper introduction?

Speaker 4 (01:01):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:01):
We go back like members only Jackets and Jery Curls.
I mean, we go all. This is like my cousin,
my play cousin from another mother, mother and father and
everything else.

Speaker 4 (01:09):
This is my girl. I mean, she does it all.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
She's a journalist, she's an activist, she's an advocate, she's
an author, she's a wife.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
This this my mother.

Speaker 5 (01:19):
This is my girl.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
I call it Ja.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
But everybody knows that's Jamelle Hill. She's in the house
hanging out with us.

Speaker 4 (01:25):
What's up, Jay, What's up?

Speaker 6 (01:26):
Because you know, people really believe that for a while,
because I mean to give the backstory.

Speaker 7 (01:31):
You know, obviously my last name is Hill.

Speaker 6 (01:33):
My last name is Hill, and so people like when
we would say that publicly, people like, that's your cousin.

Speaker 7 (01:38):
I'd be like it absolutely, that's something, and.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
You know what call it out there. You know, we
was on ESPN together for a while a long time.
He held it down over there, and I mean, y'all
play cousin. We all play cause we all because because
because of that, I get confused with Michael Smith a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
I mean people get that.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
I mean I get called out so much for Michael
Smith because they thought we did the show together.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
That's all good Man.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Anytime I'm associated with you, it's just a pleasure because
I'm so proud of you and who you are whatnot.
And that's how I want to start things off, because
I know sometimes when people look at me, they say,
he's a sportscaster, and I understand where they're coming from,
but I think I'm so much more and I want
to bud myself out and just try and branch out
a little bit more. So, how would you classify yourself?

(02:24):
Because you've done it all, You're more than just a journalist.
You got into activism, like I said, an author. How
would you classify yourself?

Speaker 7 (02:32):
Somebody use the term with me, they call me a
cultural critic.

Speaker 6 (02:35):
And I'm like, oh, I can embrace that, you know,
I can embrace that. But even though just like you,
like I do a lot of you know, producing, writing
all these other things and talk about a myriad of subjects,
you know, the reality is that so much of it
is still very much rooted in sports. So I'm not
offended in somebody because it is me a sports journalist

(02:56):
or just you know, largely associates me with ESPN. That's
that's fine, because I still think that the power of
sports is that it's the lens in which you can
see the world.

Speaker 5 (03:06):
You know.

Speaker 6 (03:07):
When I got into the business, of course, I wanted
to cover cool events and cool athletes and talk about
the games, the results, and argue about championships and who
was better than all that, and that was great. But
as my career matured, I really saw that the power
of sports was just so impactful.

Speaker 7 (03:25):
It's one of the few things we do together.

Speaker 6 (03:27):
Like, we're a very segregated society, but you know, all
three of us come from different places, grew up differently,
different socio economic backgrounds. But if we're all liquor fans,
we all liquor fans, right, it doesn't matter where you
come from.

Speaker 7 (03:40):
And that's the way we are. Not don't let these these.

Speaker 6 (03:49):
You're not you know, you see the shirt that says
Detroit Till I die. So I have a Pistons fan.

Speaker 7 (03:53):
I know we're not relevant. That's all right, talk y'all.

Speaker 6 (03:55):
Shit now, because I'm telling you that come up, it's
gonna be real.

Speaker 7 (04:01):
Right, Okay.

Speaker 6 (04:02):
So, but that's the thing is like sports bonds people together,
and because of that, it gives you the perfect avenue
to talk about race and politics and gender and and
all these different issues, and so that's why I think
sports will forever be my base.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Well that that's perfect segue because today's topic is you know,
cultural controversy, right, and I think the three of us
sitting here can can can speak to that because sometimes
we have things to say. You're very outspoken, and it's

(04:43):
people in society don't think certain people should have voices, right,
and and speak about politics are you know there was
a thing where a lot of people didn't like women
talk about men's sports.

Speaker 5 (05:02):
Right.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
We can't talk about men's sports, You can't talk about politics,
you can't talk about.

Speaker 5 (05:08):
Any of these things.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
And you find yourself in the middle of a society
like that, and you like, look, I'm talking about everything,
Like how has that been for you dealing with some
of the.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
You know, the.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Issues are the backlash about being so outspoken and opinionated.

Speaker 6 (05:28):
The thing is, I don't really consider myself to be
I know this is people are going to probably laugh,
but I don't consider myself to be particularly outspoken like people.

Speaker 7 (05:37):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
Think when I was talking about relationships.

Speaker 7 (05:51):
That is true.

Speaker 5 (05:53):
I got.

Speaker 6 (05:55):
The only reason why I say that because I don't
think I'm saying anything crazy, But I do think the
messenger matters. And to your point, we have this very
narrow way of looking at who gets to speak and
who does it. And you know, especially when you're black
and you're a black woman and you speak on certain things,
the firestorm is going to be different from you than
if somebody else said it.

Speaker 7 (06:16):
You know, Like, of course, a lot of people gave.

Speaker 6 (06:18):
Me a lot of shit because I said, and I
need people to hear this, because they missed this part
of the sentence when I said it, A portion, a factor,
a role.

Speaker 7 (06:30):
What does that mean?

Speaker 6 (06:30):
A little bit, A segment, just a piece of Caitlyn
Clark's popularity has to do with the fact that she's
white and straight. Okay, a piece they ain't taken away
from that girl's accomplishment. We see, excuse me, that woman's accomplishment.
She's a dynamic shooter, she's a generational talent. But a
piece of her popularity is that. Now, when I said it,
it was like, oh my god, you said that.

Speaker 7 (06:52):
You saying she.

Speaker 6 (06:53):
Only got this because she white folks, role played a
role was the exact sentence, right, And so then later
on I see other people saying that who don't look
like me, and it's like, oh.

Speaker 7 (07:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Is it?

Speaker 5 (07:06):
Really?

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Is it?

Speaker 4 (07:07):
Really? Now? It's a good point.

Speaker 6 (07:09):
Much like you know, I guess the most famous incident
when I call Donald Trump or White's and purposes. When
I said it, it was like, oh my god, I'll
dare you now people say that shit like this is
some water.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, but difference select outrage, right, yes, a select outrage.
And people basically hear what they want to hear from
who they want to hear from.

Speaker 6 (07:28):
That second part especially, it's like who do they want
to hear it from? And sometimes I'm not the ideal
person that they want to hear it from. And I
experienced this when I first became a columnist for the
Orlando Sentino, is that people would just react seeing my face.
I could be writing about the flowers and how great
they are, but as soon as they saw my face,
they were like, you are racist. I'm like, but I

(07:49):
just I just took a breath, like I didn't even
I didn't even do anything, because they automatically assumed just
based off what you look like, what your position is,
or I know what you're coming from with this, or
if you even point out issues that I think are
very substantial when we're talking when it comes to talking
about race and or gender and or the combination of
them both, it's like, you know, Hence why I always

(08:11):
when I was a newspaper columnist, I always would tell
some of my white cot leagues, like, it would be
great if you wrote about race.

Speaker 7 (08:17):
Would be great if.

Speaker 6 (08:18):
You did, because like I could say it a thousand times,
you might say it this one time and it might
have more impact than me saying it a thousand because
we often.

Speaker 5 (08:25):
Don't see that response to that.

Speaker 6 (08:28):
You know, I think a lot of it was very trepidation,
being scared the reaction. And you know, and I've said
that before about when we're in the thick of those
conversations about race, is that a lot of times I'm
not saying every white person again, not saying everybody person.

Speaker 7 (08:48):
I understand, you got.

Speaker 6 (08:51):
You got, you gotta get it, you got you got
an audience, you need to grow, I get it, you gotta.

Speaker 7 (08:57):
Go viout it right.

Speaker 6 (08:58):
So often, well, what prevents people from speaking up about
these issues, some white people in particular, is that there's
a level of ostracization that comes with that, where that
said that, right, It does like it immediately ostracizes you
from everybody else, is that.

Speaker 7 (09:15):
Oh oh, that's what you think?

Speaker 6 (09:17):
And some people aren't willing to face that for an
opinion or for pointing out an injustice or pointing out
something that's wrong, because it isolates you automatically. And you know,
that's why when you hear those stories and we've heard
them before from white people like yeah, I was around
this person and they said this, or they dropped the
N word and they just they just like, oh my god.

(09:38):
But they don't say anything. Why because as soon as
you say something, people immediately.

Speaker 7 (09:42):
Know this one different.

Speaker 5 (09:44):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (09:45):
I don't know about that person, even though it's obvious
you should say something, right, yes, but that's not you know,
it requires a level of fearlessness to do that, and
a lot.

Speaker 7 (09:55):
Of people don't have that.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
You say, you're not outspoken, right, but you have a voice,
and that's great, and you have a platform to speak from.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
Did you want this?

Speaker 2 (10:05):
I mean, this is something I like understand you want
to speak up for the people whatnot and you want
to speak for what's right. But you're a journalist. You know,
you spoke about sports whatever, you're not afraid to speak up.
But is this something that you wanted or is this
something that just kind of came to you because of
the first week.

Speaker 4 (10:20):
And I understand you've been.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Outspoken about other things before, but what puts you to
another level?

Speaker 4 (10:27):
Was that tweet about Donald Trump?

Speaker 6 (10:29):
So and hopefully I have my my godfather knowledge, right,
but I think it was what hym and Roth, this
is the life that we've chosen, right, Okay. And what
I would say is that before I sent that, yes,
I was, you know, I would clearly speak my mind.
And hell I was on a discussion show, well daily
discussion show. That was the whole point of doing that.

Speaker 7 (10:51):
But it did.

Speaker 6 (10:52):
The responsibility changed, it became a little different. And I
think what I saw or what it exposed, is that
those of us who do have the platforms that we have,
if we're willing to take on that responsibility that there
is to me for for myself, I'm just speaking for me.

Speaker 7 (11:10):
I don't think everybody has.

Speaker 6 (11:11):
To to fall in line with this, is that there
is a responsibility to speak up for those people who
can't speak up for themselves. It's honestly the whole core
tenet of journalism It's why I became a journalist, Like,
I didn't become one to make money, because it.

Speaker 7 (11:25):
Was very clear in the beginning that shit wasn't happening, right.

Speaker 6 (11:29):
I mean, I'm in college and I think it was
the US News World Reporter that came out with They
always list the top professions, and journalism was like ninety
eight and the average salary for a journalist was nineteen
thousand dollars a year.

Speaker 7 (11:42):
And so I still chose to do this.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
You can live in Detroit for nineteen thousands.

Speaker 6 (11:46):
Oh see, he said, I'm gonna take you said that,
I'm gonna take that as this bat.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
I want to go back to Detroit. You're gonna get you.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
The only reason I say that because I played one
of my thirteen years in the NFL, I played in Detroit,
and I was like, oh, it's time to retire. Look
I'm waiting, but just I just wait, wait, just I
want to explain.

Speaker 5 (12:12):
I don't want to explain. It was. It was two
thousand and nine, it was right after.

Speaker 7 (12:20):
The recession, was still recession.

Speaker 5 (12:21):
It just hit.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yes, the team went oh and sixteen, right, so they
brought a new coaches and all that, and I was
literally out there like, oh, this can't be real.

Speaker 7 (12:33):
It didn't feel and you missed out on the come up.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
Well, I was just a bad time. It doesn't mean
it's a bad place.

Speaker 5 (12:41):
It was not a bad place.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Motor City, it's the motown and all of that. It's wonderful.

Speaker 5 (12:48):
It's gonna be a.

Speaker 7 (12:48):
Whole bunch of people outside the studio.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
I'm just saying, gonna jump you. I mean, come on,
we want to talk to you.

Speaker 5 (12:56):
I go back and forth with Rod Parker all the
time about.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Detroit, and you know, he's consistently trying to throw in
the towel.

Speaker 5 (13:04):
He's spent most of his career exactly.

Speaker 7 (13:08):
I was a teenager.

Speaker 6 (13:09):
But you know, the whole thing is that, like, you know,
being from Detroit, Like you asked me about my voice,
that is part of the early origin of my voice,
only because a lot of people had that opinion of
Detroit the entire time I was growing up, Like we
only wound up on the national news for bad things,
typically when they released the murder rate, right because Detroit

(13:30):
was usually number one or in the top five, and
that was all people knew about the city. And so
people from Detroit there is I mean, I know, everybody
puts on for the for their city.

Speaker 7 (13:43):
I would put I would.

Speaker 6 (13:44):
Take a pepsi challenge against any city about putting on
for your city, because we don't get the glitzing lamb
of Atlanta, of Chicago, of all these other places who frankly,
they cried just as bad as ours. But people don't
associate them with crime and with all that and with
pink suits the way they do with us, right, It's
like they don't. And so we have to constantly tell

(14:08):
people about the good things that come out of Detroit.
So that's always Detroit the way that I do let
people know, like good ship comes from our city, right like,
and not just you know, motime. We created a whole
music genre, right, not just motile, but a lot of
great things come from Detroit. And especially now, you probably
wouldn't recognize it, like it's it's different.

Speaker 7 (14:27):
It is still grasping the ways in which is different.
You live there now, I don't live there now.

Speaker 5 (14:33):
For iroit.

Speaker 6 (14:42):
Disrespect Make sure you and make sure you tag him especially.

Speaker 5 (14:51):
I love you to death. I love Detroit.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
I just don't sound like I didn't like playing there
at the time.

Speaker 5 (14:57):
I'm happy. What's going on with the team there right now, and.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
They and they love, they love, love love their sports
teams there.

Speaker 5 (15:09):
I just didn't have a good time there.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
But I look, first of all, I was on the
team after they went winless, but was still there. The
stench was there. But speaking of stench, uh, you being
outspoken or not, it comes with a lot of hate, yes,

(15:34):
all right, and the advent of social media literally puts
that hate in your lap. How has it been dealing
with I mean just the barrage of people just vehemently,

(15:55):
you know, opposed to your views and saying some of
the most hateful things.

Speaker 5 (16:01):
Every time you step up and you speak your mind.

Speaker 6 (16:05):
What in this regard, I'm glad, you know, at being
a woman of a certain age that I didn't grow
up with social media, right, Like I've always had like
a corporate job since social media existed, and so it
was it was something I could always take or leave,
you know. But I realized in today's world, like for
the young people that came up in generations behind me,

(16:27):
it's like truly their street corner, right, It's like that's
where they uh, that is where they mingle, That's where
all that all that stuff happened. So I think because
I live long without it, that I don't take it
as seriously right, I mean, it gets annoying. The hatred
gets more annoying than something that that I stay rooted

(16:47):
in because you know, people have to understand if you
see me cut back on Twitter, I'm that one comment
is representing a hundred that I've gotten and they just
got to a point like cut the ship, all right,
now I gotta go at you like now, I'm gonna
give you all that attention you order and you're not
gonna like it, and they normally do. It usually winds
up in a deleted tweet, deleted account, or you know,

(17:12):
because people once I, once I bring my mob on it,
then then it's gonna be different. So I appreciate my
street visitilanities, or my social vigilandes social media vigilannies out there,
so that in that regard it is. What is more
problematic is that that stuff does bleed.

Speaker 7 (17:30):
Into real life.

Speaker 6 (17:31):
And so I've had some incidents, I mean not with
people running up on me because they know better and
as I often tell them, my husband six to two
and a license gun owner. So try it if you
want to do right, Okay, you know what I'm saying.
I was like, don't let that ESPN on the resume
fool you. That's gonna be real different if you try
to jump stupid on me, like in public, but just

(17:55):
in terms of issues of my of my safety and
you know, in terms of like we had an incident recently.
I don't want to give too many details about it,
but let's just say that the.

Speaker 7 (18:05):
Police had to be called. Oh wow, you know because of.

Speaker 4 (18:09):
No, it wasn't.

Speaker 7 (18:10):
It wasn't. It wasn't in public.

Speaker 6 (18:12):
It was just about something that came to my house
and so you know, and so that so things like
that is where the the dynamic changes, you know, And
it wasn't. It wasn't the first time. Like when I
lived in Hartford when not working at ESPN, like they
had the they had the flags of mail because it
was some weird powder in it that was addressed to me.

(18:33):
I've had the you know, FBI has been called for
some stuff, like one one year they thought I was
at the Big Ten Championship game when Michigan State was
in it.

Speaker 7 (18:41):
I wasn't there.

Speaker 6 (18:42):
It was in Indianapolis because they had received a credible
threat on my life.

Speaker 7 (18:48):
And you know how.

Speaker 6 (18:49):
ESPN security works, right like they own it, and so
they were going to remove me because they the threat
was that serious.

Speaker 7 (18:56):
So it's stuff like that, that's.

Speaker 6 (18:58):
The kind of thing that the hatred and all of
that drums off, it drums up, you know, and where
that you know, tweet about Trump really changed my life
because that was not something I never had to really
give a second thought to public safety that way.

Speaker 7 (19:16):
But now it's like a.

Speaker 6 (19:16):
Second and a third thought, you know, to where I
have to, you know, take a lot of effort to
make sure that people don't know where I live and.

Speaker 7 (19:25):
All that kind of stuff.

Speaker 6 (19:25):
So when that little surprise like showed up, it was
very disconcerting because I know the steps that we've taken
to make sure that people don't know that kind of information.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Disconcerting.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
And I understand that your husband is always there or
protect you, and you got, like you said, your mom
behind you, But do you ever get scared?

Speaker 4 (19:42):
I mean, just you were human?

Speaker 7 (19:44):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 6 (19:45):
Mostly I think the scarier part is that people, you know,
the people that may not like me, or may not
like me enough to where they feel like they have
to threaten my physical safety. They know what I look like.
It's not I don't know what they look like. So,
you know, sometimes even when I'm in public, if like
somebody's staring too long or looking like mostly I think
it's like, oh, I think I recognize her, right, Like totally,

(20:07):
there's a little in the back of your mind like
why are they staring?

Speaker 7 (20:10):
Like what are they like? Where's this going?

Speaker 6 (20:13):
You know, Or even when people approach me, it's like
I'm a little wary because I'm like, I don't know
what they're about to say to me right now. And
so in that regard, it kind of changes, you know,
how you operate.

Speaker 7 (20:25):
Like we were just.

Speaker 6 (20:25):
Talking off air about my addiction to golf, right it's like, so,
you know, like I have some you know, some plastic
golf balls. You know, I would love to practice my
chipping in my yard, but I can't because then people
would know where I live, like if people are walking by,
and because that kind of thing don't say secret for long,

(20:46):
and so like I'm like, I can't even hit you know,
some bullshit ass chip shots in my in my yard
because I'm afraid somebody might see me, you know. And
that's something actually, honestly, my husband kind of brought to
my attention. He's like, you know, you can't go outside,
and and I was like, you're probably.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Right well to that point. I mean, it's got to
take a mental toll on you. And in an era
where we're really you know, focusing and now speaking out
loudly about mental health, what are some of the things
that you do to help stay sane, to keep yourself

(21:26):
from mentally going into like a deep dive or a pit.

Speaker 6 (21:30):
Well, my husband's a big piece of this, Like he's
an amazing support system for me, and so you know,
and that's something that that's somebody I'm with every day,
you know, all day for the most part. And that's
why vacation as hard as I'm I've been almost forty countries.

Speaker 7 (21:49):
It's like I got it.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
I can't hide money. I'm too We all be vacationing, right.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
Is the sun hit differently, but it is.

Speaker 6 (22:06):
Why and why typically I always vacation out of the
country because it's a chance to unplug and get away
from this sometimes hellscape and be able to like really appreciate,
you know, life and just enjoy and be present and
be in the moment because a lot of times you're
for a country's like I ain't going out of my

(22:28):
way to get the data plan and all that you
know kind of stuff. You know, sometimes I do just
because we might need to find something to look something
up or whatever. But generally speaking, it's also an opportunity
to get away from the cellular device. And so for me,
it just every time I go somewhere, it just cleanses
my spirit and it recharges me and I feel like, Okay,

(22:49):
whatever I'm facing, when I come back, I feel much more.

Speaker 7 (22:53):
You know, capable of handling that. And yeah, I mean.

Speaker 6 (22:57):
I have a therapist, so like, yes, all all of
those things that really help me in terms of trying
to find I won't say work life balance, because that's
a lie.

Speaker 5 (23:07):
It is a lie. Been looking for that, man, It just.

Speaker 6 (23:12):
For mostly most most driven, ambitious people like that is
a lie. And so what I the principle I do
follow is something that I heard in my yoga class
once where my yoga instructor said, just give me one
hundred percent of your ten percent.

Speaker 4 (23:26):
Right.

Speaker 7 (23:26):
So if in the work life balance, I know I
only have you know.

Speaker 6 (23:29):
Thirty percent I could dedicate to something not work or whatever,
I've given one hundred percent to that thirty percent. So
that's sort of a guiding principle for me.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Have you figured out who your leaves and your branches
are on your tree?

Speaker 4 (23:44):
Because I know what I want to I mean, this
is the analogy.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Because you heard Tyler Pierry talking about like in life,
you know you have your branch, you have leaves when
the wind comes, the leaves of leave, and then some
people will have branches in. But you can only step
out on a branch so far before the branch breaks.
But if you have the people that are your roots
the trees and stick with you through it all. When
I went through it, I went through over the last
couple of years with the divorce and everything that was
happening in my life, I realized there was a sense

(24:11):
of discernment that I had to have when it came
to certain friends that would be with me during the
good times and the bad times. It's easy to hang
out with you when you're popular, you're famous, you're on
certain networks or whatever. But when you're going through controversy
and people are coming for you and you become a
polarizing figure or whatnot, some people like you, some people don't.
Then all of a sudden you find out that the

(24:32):
friends that you thought you had before don't call you anymore.
And I've gone through So since this is done, there
have been that podcast. This is what I've gone through.
I'm wondering if someone like you has gone through something
like that.

Speaker 6 (24:44):
Well, one thing I have had a knack for good
or bad, is like I do, I don't expect the
same things from every friend. So I compartmentalize a lot
of my relationships. And that's not to speak badly of
those people, but everybody ain't supposed to fit in your
life the same way. Like some people are just there
for a season. Some people are just there to help

(25:04):
you get to a certain place, maybe mentally, maybe physically, professionally,
wherever it may.

Speaker 7 (25:10):
Be, and then that's it.

Speaker 6 (25:11):
So my expectations for say, you know our friend Kelly Carter.

Speaker 7 (25:18):
Me and Kelly been down.

Speaker 6 (25:19):
For thirty years now, we were college room at that's
my dog. That's a route, right. The expectations I had
for her would not be for somebody maybe I've only
known a couple of years, Like, I don't expect that
friend to be down for me the same way were
able to be cool. But because I've level set the friendship,
I'm not expecting more, right, and so so I even

(25:41):
with family, like there's some people I'm just like you family,
I don't fuck with you like that, but we were
Family is good. But I don't have that expectation that
you're gonna be that ride or die family right like
you ain't. Everybody ain't ryding for you, like your mama
not gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
You met my mama, Jamail is compared up God if.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
You met Denise.

Speaker 6 (26:09):
So I say all that to say is that you
are correct. It's like you you see the people that
come in and out of your lives, and I guess
I am able to generally identify those people.

Speaker 7 (26:22):
So it's like I don't really lean into them like
that anyway.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
So you've never been disappointed by somebody.

Speaker 7 (26:27):
That was, you know what I have? I have been disappointed.

Speaker 6 (26:30):
I certainly have, you know, because there there is there's
been a couple of friendships.

Speaker 7 (26:34):
So I'm like, dang, I ain't see it coming out
like that.

Speaker 6 (26:36):
But now that I see how how it is, it's
just sort of like, all right, that's just kind of
how it is, you know, And that doesn't mean that
it wasn't like hurtful. That doesn't mean it wasn't, you know,
something unexpected. But what it does mean to me is that,
you know, maybe what I thought were roots were leaves,

(27:00):
you know, And so I was like, Okay, maybe maybe
that wasn't how I how I saw this.

Speaker 7 (27:06):
Maybe we didn't see this mutually.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
If you will, you said something there that I think
as we get older, we understand before our young listeners
and viewers about you know, all your friends, they don't
bring the same energy to the table, right, And I

(27:28):
think people have this expectation of their friend group, their
peer group, that everybody's supposed to be the same, right, right,
Like the person I've known for ten years and the
person I just met or known for two years come
to the table with the same intent, the same energy.

(27:50):
And the crazy part about that is the person you've
known for a shorter time.

Speaker 5 (27:57):
To bring energy you need more absolutely then might. And
that's that season.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Hearing you explain it the way you did, it makes sense.
And I hope our listeners and viewers get a chance
to take something from that, because we get caught up
in the world of you know, friends coming and going
and and it's devastating us, right, Like how could you
are I can't believe I've known you since and you

(28:27):
start and what it does is it pulls at you,
and it it yanks at you, and you start questioning
who you are as a person. I've gone through things
like that where you you know, somebody you're, somebody in
your friend group tries to turn everybody else into friend
group against you, and you're.

Speaker 5 (28:45):
Just like, wait, what so.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
But but the crazy part is then you start as
a as an individual, I'm like, well, damn am I am.

Speaker 7 (28:55):
I the problem?

Speaker 5 (28:56):
It wasn't.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
But that goes especially the more successful you are, uh,
the more people view that you owe them.

Speaker 7 (29:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (29:11):
Yeah, I mean it's funny because, like I will say,
I've been very fortunate that I have not gone through
that particular experience, but I know so many people that
have and it's really disheartening. And it could be like
the breakup of a friendship is so much different than

(29:31):
the breakup of a relationship. I think the case could
be paid the friendship boy and hurts a lot worse,
you know, I mean, because.

Speaker 7 (29:39):
It is probably unexpected.

Speaker 6 (29:41):
It is because of the level of expectation, It is
because of a lot of things.

Speaker 7 (29:46):
But you know, generally, I think as.

Speaker 6 (29:48):
I got more known, more famous, if you want to
call it that, it's famous.

Speaker 7 (29:55):
Because I got more famous, they know your name.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
That's what I tell people. I'm not famous, unfamiliar famous
people you know their name me, I'm like, that's familiar.

Speaker 6 (30:12):
As I got more famous, Uh, you know, like I've
I've still stayed the same, But you do see how
it changes people around you, right, And I think the
change is that like they they struggle to deal with
the fact like if if we go out to dinner
and people recognize me or whatever, like there's gonna be interruptions,

(30:35):
you know, it just kind of what it is. There's
gonna be picture taking or sometimes and you know how
people do mic It's like they'll treat the people that
you're with like they're assisted, you know what I'm saying,
And so like adjusting to that part, and which is
why I have certain I had realized I had to
set the boundaries. Like one of my biggest boundaries is
my husband is not my picture taker. So like if

(30:56):
you want a picture with me, he's not taking it, right,
Like you have to be really fucking famous, like to
the point where it's just like even he'll be like, yeah,
I got that, and he has set that rule.

Speaker 7 (31:07):
He didn't even ask me to do it.

Speaker 6 (31:08):
It's just something I was like, you know what, because
I know it would be a constant thing. I know
that people would be like, hey, man, can you no no, no, no, no,
you better get the selfie or it ain't have no
find somebody else, you know. So, like I wanted to
be very clear in establishing that boundary.

Speaker 7 (31:23):
It's like he is not my assistant. He is not
the picture taker, he is.

Speaker 6 (31:26):
Not holding your stuff, he ain't doing none of that. Like,
this is my husband, this is my part.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
It's like debo.

Speaker 5 (31:33):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
We were off around and didn't smile the first like
three times I met him, like.

Speaker 4 (31:40):
We you know, we like cousins. Like right, you know
this is.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
My girl, but this is not my hub because of
the love we work together.

Speaker 5 (31:49):
You're not gonna look Okay, so how long have you
guys been married?

Speaker 7 (31:53):
So this is your five okay yeah, year five November.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
We had a discussion. I'm big on relationship, all right.
I've been with my wife for twenty one years.

Speaker 5 (32:06):
You've been married eighteen years.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
Just one. That's that bullshit.

Speaker 5 (32:11):
It's an anomaly.

Speaker 2 (32:13):
In this day and time a couple of times.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
But you did not take your husband's last name.

Speaker 7 (32:22):
How do you know that?

Speaker 5 (32:23):
I'm asking you? Did you or did you? You did it?

Speaker 4 (32:25):
But her professional name is still Hill. It's like she's Wallace.

Speaker 5 (32:29):
So we were.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
Having people.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
I know now they know his name said it was
really easy to find what it is the church, We
got a I and everything.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Was that a conversation or was it just like when
we get married, I'm you know, taking your what?

Speaker 6 (32:52):
It was something I wanted to do, okay, and let's
speak on that I wanted.

Speaker 7 (32:56):
To do, and.

Speaker 6 (32:59):
But it was I think, yes. He actually had the
opposite expectation. He thought I was going to keep it
because he's thinking professionally. He's like, you spent twenty plus
years building this name in your profession and people know
you as this. He never expected me to change it.
But I was just like, no, no, I want to
change it, but professionally I will be known as this.

Speaker 7 (33:20):
And he was like, no, I totally you know get it.
So I guess if I wasn't famous, that'd have been
a problem.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 6 (33:27):
But yeah, like it was something I wanted to do.
I didn't want to hyphenate, no disrespect to the people
that do. I didn't want to add it on there.
And it's not that my name didn't mean anything to me,
but to me, it was more important as I entered
this new adventure, in new phase and with this new
person who I wanted to spend the rest of my

(33:49):
life with that it was a symbol of the commitment
that I have to We're family now, So I wanted it,
you know, that was the reason why I did it.
I do now understand, having going through the process, why
women when they get divorced don't change that shit back
Because I'm telling you, he said, I ain't going back.

Speaker 7 (34:14):
Oh my god. You was like, you got to be
kidding through it. Can we just get to the point
where we could, let's press one button and it just
does everything. I mean, oh my god.

Speaker 6 (34:24):
It was such a pain in the ass, and especially
because I had to do a lot of it during
the height of the lockdown of the pandemic, because we
got married November twenty nineteen, so we were just months
away while from the entire world changing, and so going
through getting the pass like all of that, it was like,
oh my god, this is just a pain.

Speaker 5 (34:42):
How long did you guys date before you got married?

Speaker 7 (34:44):
So we dated.

Speaker 6 (34:46):
We met at twenty fourteen, and we started going together
in twenty fifteen. But we were dating, but we both
came into it, which is I always tell people the
best way to find a relationship is not look for one.
And so when we started dating, we both were like,
I want a relationship.

Speaker 7 (35:04):
You know. We sounded like Darius and Nina and loved
that ain't my girl.

Speaker 5 (35:09):
We're just kicking it, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (35:12):
And then over time, and we were also long distance,
so we were long distance for about four years before
we both moved to Los Angeles together, right and so,
and then he proposed like two months later, so it
was it was wonderful. I was totally surprised, even though

(35:33):
we had been talking about marriage, so I assumed he
knew I was going to say yes when he asked me.
But he told me because we were headed out of
town to see to Saint Martin to hang out with
some friends for Christmas in New Years, and he told
me that he had gotten a GROUPO. He had gotten

(35:54):
a GROUPO for a helicopter ride to see all of
Los Angeles. Like we're New Los Angeles residents, and we
had talked about doing a helicopter ride, and we were
just like, we're gonna do all the crazy touris shit,
you know, just to kind of get it out of
the way. Even though we had been coming to LA
for years, we never got a chance to do any
of the tour stuff. So he's like, yeah, I got
this group on for this helicopter ride, and it was

(36:15):
two other friends that were supposed to do it with us,
and so, you know, the day of the helicopter ride,
I think, yeah, I had a hair appointment and I
was just like, I don't really feel like doing this.

Speaker 7 (36:25):
He was like, but I got this group on and
you know, you gotta do it.

Speaker 6 (36:30):
I was like, fine, we'll do this helicopter ride. So
we go to the place and I was like, where
are the two other friends. He is like, oh, they
running late, so they said we could just go up
and I was like, oh, okay. So there was a
photographer and he said, yeah, the photographer. They want to
know is it cool because of you know, you're because
you're a media personality if they take some photos because
they want to put it on the website.

Speaker 7 (36:50):
And I was like, oh yeah, that's fine. So we
go up and it's beautiful.

Speaker 6 (36:55):
We're all around the city and the helicopter and the
pilot says like, hey, we're going to land on top
of this building. It's like kind of overlooks Echo Park,
you know whatever. So you guys get a nice few
this and that. And so we're up on top of
this essentially skyscraper, this tall ass building, and we're up
there looking at the view. The sun is setting, and

(37:17):
he was like, oh, do you see that over there?
And he's pointing somewhere off in the distance. And I
was like see what, And like I'm like, what are
you talking about? And he's like that over there and
I was like what. And so I'm looking. I'm like
this like the meme. I'm like, you know, just looking.
And then I turned around and he was on.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
One knee.

Speaker 6 (37:34):
And you're right, he had the ring in his head.
The photographer was there to take pictures. And we had
we had two vacations back to back. So my birthday
is in December, so he every birthday, we surprised each
other with a vacation.

Speaker 7 (37:49):
So I had no idea. We went to the Cayman Islands, right.

Speaker 6 (37:52):
So we were We had just come back from the
Cayman Islands and while we were there, he was like, oh,
you should treat yourself to us by day.

Speaker 7 (38:00):
Your nails up.

Speaker 6 (38:00):
He wanted me to get my nails up because he
was proposing, and he wanted it to look right on
the finger.

Speaker 7 (38:05):
And the first I was like, I was like, I'll
did a massage.

Speaker 6 (38:07):
I don't know if I feel like getting the whole
medicure pedicure treatment right now. And I was like, all right,
I'll do it. That's fine, but I got a get you.

Speaker 7 (38:18):
I did do.

Speaker 6 (38:18):
It, and you know, he knew I had a hair
appointment or whatever. So it's like he wanted to make
sure I looked my best. But he did it so
covertly with the help of Kelly, by the way, she
was an.

Speaker 7 (38:31):
She helped the whole had a friend there, that's why.

Speaker 6 (38:35):
And so yeah, so he proposed on the rooftop.

Speaker 5 (38:39):
Yes he did, taken from the number one. I like him.

Speaker 4 (38:43):
Okay, he's cool.

Speaker 5 (38:44):
All right because he smiles now though.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Because of the effort, yes, right, I think relationships require effort,
and effort doesn't necessarily mean heavy lifting. It just means
you got to put effort into something you love, that
you want to grow, that you want to cultivate.

Speaker 5 (39:07):
Most people are lazy, just in life.

Speaker 6 (39:10):
Well that's why people are super amazed when I tell
him that we were long distance for four years?

Speaker 7 (39:15):
How did you do that for that long effort?

Speaker 6 (39:17):
But that wasn't we were once we made the commitment.
And he loves to tell the story because I did
ask him to go with me. It was me, yeah, yeah,
I did, but he was leaning in that direct. I
mean we were already at the point where and finally
I was just like, all right, you know, let's do this.

(39:38):
And I gave my whole little you know speech, and
I was just like, because I mean, I know how
things are. We we were dating, we never you know,
made a commitment not to see other people.

Speaker 7 (39:49):
I didn't ask, He didn't ask.

Speaker 6 (39:51):
I mean far as like, I didn't even care because
I'm like, whoever, if he got another chick, she ain't
get no time at all, Like you know, a until
you have that conversation, then it's not official till it's official, right,
So I told him, I was just like, hey, I have.

Speaker 7 (40:06):
Feelings for you. I want to do this.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
I want to do this for real, like where it's
just you know us. And I was like, if you
have some situations you need to handle some people you
need to talk to, go and talk to them.

Speaker 7 (40:18):
But here and he was like he's like, no, no,
I'm good. You know, I'm ready.

Speaker 5 (40:22):
You know this.

Speaker 6 (40:23):
So like I, you know, I feel like he should
propose since I was the one who technically got the
relationship started.

Speaker 7 (40:30):
He was, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 6 (40:31):
We both were like we were at the age where
like all that silly shit games and nothing at all.

Speaker 7 (40:37):
So it was very, very smooth.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
You know.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
One of the things I like what you said about
is like, you know, he's not your picture taker, you
know what I mean, it's really tough. And once agatting done,
there been that. It's tough being in a relationship with
somebody who's famous or even more famous than you.

Speaker 6 (40:53):
Obviously I want to say I would love to your
I mean, were there boundaries that were said, no, I.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Took all the damn pictures, man, But you know I
had no and I had no problem with that. A
lot of times, you know, people feeling I want you
to picture till line know you really want.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
The picture trying to make me feel good. I'll take
the picture, whatever.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
But I loved that because I was promoting Cynthia, you
know what I mean, And I was all good and
she loved her fans whatever. But it's also tough sometimes
because you know, I had developed and created my own
identity for so many years before that, which I didn't
mind being Cynthia's boo. I didn't mind because I was
her husband. I was therefore and I was supported. So
if you knew me from that, that was great. But
does it affect at all? And you got to be

(41:33):
a very secure man to have that type of personality
and that attitude. Does it ever affect in in any
sort of way that you know, you're so famous, you're
so known, and once again, sometimes everybody wants your attention
and sometimes he could be left.

Speaker 6 (41:50):
A big test before I asked him to go with
me was I took him to the SPS.

Speaker 5 (41:54):
Oh.

Speaker 6 (41:55):
And that was a really big test because I had
a friend who who took a day to the s
PIECE and.

Speaker 7 (42:01):
It was disastrous.

Speaker 6 (42:03):
And it was disastrous because and this is somebody who
is like a professional, who you would have thought was
accomplished enough to feel secure in those.

Speaker 7 (42:11):
Top of rooms, was not the case at all.

Speaker 6 (42:15):
And he kind of embarrassed her, and I was like, oh,
but she knew at least she knew she was like
never good.

Speaker 7 (42:22):
At the one keep it moving.

Speaker 6 (42:24):
And so even though every signal pointed to the fact
that he was secure, you know, could hold his own
because one thing I definitely loved, like when we were
in the getting to know each other face, he never
asked me one question about ESPN Like he wasn't because
sometimes and uh, it's funny because me, me and Carrie Champion,
we used to talk about this all the time, is
that we would you know, you run into basically fanboys,

(42:48):
not like fanboys of the network about the personality, Like
if I'm out with you and you're like what Stephen A.

Speaker 7 (42:55):
Smith? Like like is he on the day with your Like.

Speaker 6 (43:01):
I'm telling you, And so we would just be like
how we would just talk about how unattractive that he is,
you know. And so he never did that, Like he
didn't ask me anything about like, you know, was it
like to be on a round the horn? Like, he
never never did that. And I peeped that early and
I was like, oh, I really like that. And our
first date was at an ESPN function because we we

(43:25):
actually met at We both went to Michigan State, but
he's five years younger, so we were there at different times.
And but we met at homecoming because I went back.
I was grand marshall the homecoming parade and we met
at the Black Alumni tailgate and.

Speaker 5 (43:37):
He was just graduating.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
I mean, I ain't say nothing. You said it, but
I mean, I.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Mean, am I like a puma if y'all ain't going
to high school at the same time.

Speaker 7 (43:58):
But we didn't know.

Speaker 4 (43:59):
I know, I was won't say it years. It would
have been four years if you would have been a senior.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
He was a freshman, right, Okay, anything nice because he
was still in middle school.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
He's about to graduate.

Speaker 6 (44:08):
He's like, you know, I could have pulled your eighth grade.
I was like, that never could have happened. But so
so we met, you know, at homecoming, and we were
just you know, exchange information.

Speaker 7 (44:22):
When he called the next day, he didn't do that
whole I'm a wait and see and all this.

Speaker 5 (44:26):
God.

Speaker 6 (44:26):
The next day we had a great conversation and we
were just talking just over the course of the next
week or so, and he was like, yeah, I got
this work trip because we were thinking about whenever we're
going to see each other. He's like, yeah, I got
this work trip in LA and you know.

Speaker 7 (44:40):
Like so I got to do that. And then maybe
after that, I was like, well, I got a work
trip in l A.

Speaker 6 (44:44):
And he was like, well, actually I'm in Orange County.
I was like, actually, I'm in Orange County. It was
an ESPN W summit. Oh really, yes, And so that
he his company is his headquartered fifteen minutes from like
it's very close, so he was staying in the area
at the same time. So that our first day, I
asked him to come over to the hotel of the

(45:06):
main hotel where the summer was taking place.

Speaker 7 (45:08):
So he comes in.

Speaker 6 (45:09):
There and it's like Sarah's like all these women and
it was like the bar was nothing but.

Speaker 7 (45:14):
Women, right, nothing but women.

Speaker 6 (45:16):
And so it's like Sarah Spain say, she like all
the ESPN personalities are there, and I was like, yeah,
me, me and the buar for a drink, and you know,
because that was pretty like that wasn't a full commitment,
like if this is whag, then it's like it's a
drink to sit down dinner or anything like that.

Speaker 7 (45:32):
And I never forget when.

Speaker 6 (45:34):
He came in and when he came into the bar
and he's sitting there, I could see Sarah Spain in
my in my eyesight, and she was like, you.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Don't have the backup plan just in case he like
ten minutes in.

Speaker 5 (45:55):
Something.

Speaker 7 (45:55):
I know, I know I had the backup plan.

Speaker 6 (45:58):
The backup plan was because I'm at a card I'd
be like, man, I got.

Speaker 7 (46:01):
An early session that was.

Speaker 6 (46:08):
To be my backup, Like you know, that's what it was.
But but yeah, we were I mean, we were able
to make it work. And luckily he had a flexible
work schedule, so when the show when we went to
Dallas for the National Championship, like he came and like
we were able to just do things throughout the course
of our relationship and building it and so the distance,

(46:32):
while it wasn't ideal, it was never to the point
where like I can't do this anymore. Because the eventual
plan after we got so serious was to like, how
can we be in the same space.

Speaker 5 (46:42):
It helps to be busy too, yeah, yeah, yeah it does.

Speaker 6 (46:45):
But like to your point, I took him to the
Spis and like seeing you know, we went to like
Lebron's after party.

Speaker 7 (46:51):
It's like, you know, I think Future performed. I think
it was.

Speaker 6 (46:56):
But you know, at Lebron after party, it is every
manner of celebrity isn't.

Speaker 4 (46:59):
And everybody knows you and.

Speaker 5 (47:03):
Super cool.

Speaker 6 (47:03):
He wasn't up there trying to take pictures with everybody,
anyone break out his phone or anything. He just having
a regular conversation. He's a real dude, you know with
people because he is a real dude.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
I did want to ask you one more question before
we get to our defining question you once again, you're
in this role right now. Is there anything that you
would have done differently? Is there anything that I don't
like to say regrets, I say life lessons, But is
there anything that if you had the chance to do
it all over again? And how tough is it actually

(47:33):
be the voice the culture critic sometimes?

Speaker 6 (47:37):
You know, it's tough because you can't give your attention
equally to everything and that so people have this expectation
that if something's happening over here, like why ain't you
speaking up on that?

Speaker 5 (47:45):
Or whatever?

Speaker 6 (47:46):
You on that?

Speaker 7 (47:46):
It's like, ro I got a whole life, man, It's not.

Speaker 6 (47:49):
I know, I may tweet it, it's not glued to
this like I have other things I need to do,
and the things I care about, I want to make
sure that I invest in it in terms of understand
the full scope of what I'm talking about, So I'm
not I'm not chiming in on every geopolitical issue like
that's that's I know my lanes, okay, And so so

(48:12):
that part can be a little like, okay, you know whatever.
But in terms of like I don't believe in in
regrets at all, I don't. And I know we had
the conversation off air about your basketball football choice, because
I truly think that the decisions you make lead you
to a point for a reason. And the reality is,

(48:35):
had I not, you know, had the Trump thing never happened,
the Trump thing eased the path for me to leave ESPN,
And I think what would have potentially happened had that
not happened, is that I would have finished out my
contract there, which would have been at that point I
was in the first year of a four year deal,
so that's another three plus years that I'm there. And

(48:56):
I think it was making me complacent because you're how
easy it is. Come in two weeks you just like,
I'm good, right, And so all these other dreams that
I had for myself were things I kept putting off
after my ESPN time is over. I don't know when
that would have been right, because I'm sure I would
have just kept taking contract after contract.

Speaker 7 (49:14):
Until they stopped paying me.

Speaker 6 (49:16):
And more likely than not, which happens to most people,
is that you know, you don't get to leave on
your own terms.

Speaker 7 (49:23):
I got to truly leave on my own terms.

Speaker 6 (49:26):
And because people that I got fired, I'm like, I
didn't get fired. They literally offered me two different opportunities
before I told them, Hey, I think the relationship has
reached this course, like we're good, and I went to
them to say that, and so just like I went
to them to get off Sports Center, because in my deal,

(49:46):
I was contractually obligated to do Sports.

Speaker 7 (49:49):
Center and did not have to do anything else.

Speaker 6 (49:52):
So it's like having a no trade clause, right, I
had to go to them and say, hey, I'm willing
to lift a no trade clause because I want out
of Sports Center. Right, So if that Trump thing doesn't happen,
then I don't know that, you know, thinking about my
relationship and my marriage and how that's so important to me,
I'm not saying we wouldn't have gotten married. What I'm
saying is like it would have just been a lot

(50:12):
harder because I'd have been in Connecticut, which.

Speaker 7 (50:14):
You know, the way you dis Detroit is how dis Connecticut.
I wouldn't wish.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
I've been there. I did a nine year bid there,
and I did.

Speaker 6 (50:20):
A phone a half your bed dog, and I was like,
and it's a reason we call it a bit bid, right,
It's like a right. So then what would that have
looked like for us? But as a result of the
decision to leave ESPN, I got to finally pick where
I wanted to live. I've never been able to do
that my entire career. You know, we own a beautiful

(50:41):
home in Los Angeles. Never would have thought I would
be a homeowner in Los Angeles because y'all know how
hard that is, right now, you know money.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Hey, look, I'm not saying I'm broke. I'm just saying
we ain't got that. We double vacation. I'm just running
over the list of things about helicopter rhymes.

Speaker 7 (51:09):
By the way, he did not get that help.

Speaker 6 (51:18):
Myself, Okay, But the whole point is that I look
at the life that we have been able to create
for ourselves in Los Angeles, and that would not have
happened without that. So no, I wouldn't do anything differently
because if all of this leads to what I have now,
I wouldn't change anything. And I feel that way about
my whole life, not just about then. I mean, as
I wrote about this a lot in my memoir, you know,

(51:42):
I had a bit of a tough upbringing. My mom
is recovering addict. My dad was a recovering addict, and
so as difficult as it was to see, more so
my mom because my my dad was was was clean
by the time he sort of re emerged, I guess
my life. But witnessing my mother go through addiction, as

(52:05):
painful and as hard as that was, I know she
would have a different perspective because she does have a
different perspective as much as that, as hard as that
was to live through an experience, I would not change
it because I think part of those lessons, you know,
growing up on welfare, seeing that is what allowed me

(52:25):
to be the voice that I am now. Like I understand,
like when I speak very passionately about you know, poverty,
in the cycle of poverty, I know because.

Speaker 7 (52:35):
I lived it, right, I understand what that looks like.

Speaker 6 (52:38):
And so speaking about you know, addiction or just coming
from difficult circumstances because people can be very judgmental and
very unforgiving, Like I know what that is, I know
what that looks like, and so I wouldn't change any
of that because I feel like all of those things
led me to this.

Speaker 7 (52:56):
Yeah, it does.

Speaker 6 (52:57):
It gives you a tougher skin, It gives you perspective,
you knows as Yes, while the Trump stuff up ended
my life in the moment, and I guess in many
ways was a fork in terms of changing certain things
and how I lived.

Speaker 7 (53:10):
My life, you know, the reality of it.

Speaker 6 (53:14):
Is that, like, I wouldn't even change that, and it's
not even in the top twenty five of worst things
that's happened to me, And I wouldn't even qualify that.

Speaker 7 (53:23):
I was like, if you know, again.

Speaker 6 (53:25):
Y'all can read my memoirs called Uphill, still available wherever
books are sold. But some of the things that I
that I revealed in that memoir that Donald Trump shit
is nothing.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
Yep. People don't realize what you've gone through. And I
was like, oh, yeah, you're prepared for You're ready for it.

Speaker 7 (53:41):
Some the foodish you know, President talking about me on Twitter.

Speaker 6 (53:45):
So I mean basically it's like, so okay, that is
nothing compared to you know, seeing your mom at some
of her worst moments.

Speaker 7 (53:55):
And so no, So that's why I say I don't believe.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
I love that, because I always say, once again again,
don't have you know I got this from Cynthia, actually,
don't have regrets, have life lessons, which you have life lessons.
And I believe your burdens, your so called burdens, become
your blessings if you.

Speaker 7 (54:09):
Learn the less a word, and that is the truth,
learn the lessons.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Burdens become blessings if you learn the lessons.

Speaker 6 (54:16):
Because I even told, I even tell like young people,
like young journalists I talked to. I was like, you know,
the biggest reason I wound up in college was poverty
because back then, you know, the student like the federal government,
you know, I mean they you still have pil grants,
but they backed student lung, yes, right, And so I
got a full financial package because my mom was broke, right,

(54:38):
and I had an academic scholarship as well on top
of that. So when I came out of school, because
you know, between the academic scholarship my wonderful pale grant.
I mean I owe less than probably ten thousand dollars,
like somewhere between ten and twelve thousand dollars. Wow, that
wouldn't have happened, you know what I'm saying, Like you said,

(55:01):
those burdens.

Speaker 5 (55:02):
They become blessing perspective.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Well, our final segment is called Unfiltered.

Speaker 4 (55:14):
Jay is like a camel cigarette.

Speaker 6 (55:15):
She has no filter, no filter, no chaser.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
Done there been that? Podcast?

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Do you have a defining moment where you can say
you've done there been that?

Speaker 5 (55:33):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (55:36):
Well, I'm trying to think of it almost in the inverse,
Like you know, the whole point is like something that
you've done. I mean, why is it like sort of
like disastrous relationships come.

Speaker 7 (55:51):
To mind immediately?

Speaker 4 (55:53):
It changes your life?

Speaker 6 (55:54):
I mean it does for me, Like you said, not
regretreats life lessons.

Speaker 7 (56:02):
Life lessons, and I was.

Speaker 4 (56:05):
Still going through it. Luckily I'm here.

Speaker 6 (56:10):
You have to just keep taking that to yourself. Is
that I'm healing.

Speaker 7 (56:15):
You know.

Speaker 6 (56:15):
One thing, even though again as everybody does, especially for women,
you kiss a lot of frogs before the prince comes along.
And one thing that I've told especially women who are
my age, you know, on the other side of forty five,
and there's this way I am. I know I am

(56:36):
older than I look, okay, And you know that one
thing that I've told a lot of women, especially Black women,
especially across forty they make you seem like you're wanted,
that you are not viable, that it's not gonna happen
if it happens already. I got married at forty three, right,
And I am grateful I got married at that age

(57:00):
because I think about all the mistakes that I made
in relationships, and I honestly to be one hundred percent unfiltered.
I didn't even realize they were really mistakes until I
got in this relationship. And the reason I didn't is
because I finally had an accountability partner and I did
not have one before, and so I was able to

(57:22):
do shit that like I.

Speaker 7 (57:24):
Frankly probably shouldn't have been doing that.

Speaker 6 (57:25):
I'm not talking about cheating or anything, because that was
never really you know, my mo, I cheated in one
relationship that I had very early, and I know, like.

Speaker 7 (57:38):
Relationship, I didn't even get caught.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
I was like, never, aget it happens. Let me just say.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
The best of us it doesn't define who you are, No,
it does not.

Speaker 6 (57:48):
I improved of that. I was like after that, I
was like, nah, because that's too much stress.

Speaker 7 (57:52):
I'm like, I ain't doing all that.

Speaker 6 (57:53):
I'm just gonna tell people what it is, right, and
then I'd rather you make an informed decision and then
we go on from there. But anyway I say all
that to say is that because done, there been that right.
Because I had done those things and been that person
in those relationships and not really been held accountable, it

(58:14):
made me so much better once I got with somebody
that wasn't accountability, you know, partner, because then I was
able to see like, oh wow, you know, they say,
what is it?

Speaker 5 (58:28):
That?

Speaker 6 (58:28):
Marriage is a reflection, right, And it really showed me
who I am, you know, in a lot of regards
in terms of relationships. So I'm thankful that I had
done some of those things because if I hadn't, I
wouldn't be where I am now.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
We are so happy to have you here, absolutely right now.
I tell you this every time I see you, I
love you. I am so proud of you. Thank you
for everything that you do, not only for our culture,
but for our friendship, for everything that you are in
everything that you will continue to be. And we think

(59:05):
Ian as well, because he holds down, because he's bigger.
He smiles now because he knows me. So I'm thankful
that he's smiling now. But thank you for making us laugh,
thank you for making us think, thank you for making
us just be better people in this in this culture. Man,
because you're you're, you're, you're a queen.

Speaker 6 (59:23):
Well, I appreciate that. Those are really thoughtful words. And
one thing I'm trying to be better.

Speaker 7 (59:28):
At is receiving, receive it, receiving words.

Speaker 6 (59:31):
Because because they take them, because they always always feel
a little bit uncomfortable. Despite being a media personality, I
don't always enjoy being the center of attention.

Speaker 7 (59:41):
In fact, I rarely enjoy being the center of attention.

Speaker 6 (59:43):
And so but I am learning in this season of
my life to like really appreciate when people say those
things right, because it could be the opposite.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
And you got so much more going on to you.
By the right of children's book.

Speaker 6 (59:55):
Yeah, I have a children's book that's coming out next
year that is I know, right, that's not what it is,
but it's basically it's a me sort of showing kids
like the women who have helped helped me get to
where I am and about it's called unapologetically you right,

(01:00:18):
And so like teaching kids how to be unapologetic something
I know a little bit about not spoken.

Speaker 7 (01:00:25):
You know what I'm saying, Right, You're like tomato.

Speaker 6 (01:00:27):
Tomato, I'm not how spoken that I.

Speaker 7 (01:00:34):
Got boundaries, Yes, that's what it is. So I have that.

Speaker 6 (01:00:38):
Also, am launching a podcast in the fall that will
be about sports, politics and culture.

Speaker 7 (01:00:45):
You know, everybody loves mixed.

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
Together Michaels society exactly.

Speaker 6 (01:00:51):
So a sports and politics podcasts coming in the fall.
And I'm really proud of this Simone Biles documentary that
I was a creative consultant and just some writing for
that'll be out on Netflix preceding the Olympics. So it
should be on Netflix soon. People have probably already seen
the trailer. It's wonderful.

Speaker 7 (01:01:09):
So my own just one of the greatest athletes of
all time, and.

Speaker 6 (01:01:12):
She has an incredible story and incredible journey she's been
on herself. But just looking to get further entrenched in
this filmmaking documentary producer role, because look, this face is.

Speaker 7 (01:01:23):
Only gonna last so long. It's only gonna be here.

Speaker 6 (01:01:26):
So I'm pivoting to things behind the camera, even though
there's some on camera projects that I have in the pipeline.
But I think at some point within the next probably
five years, I will fully pivot to being behind the camera.

Speaker 4 (01:01:42):
That's the title right there.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
Media.

Speaker 7 (01:01:46):
I need the paycheck to reflect.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
That it's coming. It's coming. We appreciate you, thank you,
thank you for being here with us. Thank you, it's
been a pleasure.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
Jamail Hill.

Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
Y'all,