December 7, 2024 • 39 mins
Mike Hill and Ephraim Salam delve into the topic of navigating loss. They share personal experiences of grief, emphasizing the importance of expressing emotions and seeking therapy. The conversation highlights coping mechanisms, the role of timing in life changes, and finding positivity amidst loss. The hosts encourage listeners to embrace their feelings, seek support, and understand that loss can lead to unexpected opportunities and growth.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Y'all.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is the Inflection collective part for us, A connective,
reflective perspective, perspective, defensive shit shat, no cap despect facts
of kick back.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Just here for sun.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
There be that.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
All right, we back up in here another edition of
the Done There Have Been That podcast brought to you
by the Inflection Entertainment Network in Ilheart Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I am your host, Mike.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hill, and I am a from Salam And thank you
guys for being a part of this episode with us. Uh,
we're going to talk about navigating loss.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll make sure you subscribe as well
as we continue to navigate through our journey on the
Done There Have Been That podcast. Thank you for hanging
out with us through the first couple of episodes. We've
had a lot of time. But we're gonna talk about
navigating loss, man, because obviously everybody has experienced a loss,
whether that's in a relationship, whether that's a job, whether
that's a friendship or whatever.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But how do you navigate it?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I think we've gone through a couple of things and
experiences in our lives that we like to pass along
some of our maybe our tip to help some.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
People out there. Yeah, but just to talk about it.
You know, what I've learned is you know, during times
of loss, if you have the courage to speak about it,
speak about how you feel. So many times we say
I'm good. So many times we say I'm good man.
(01:22):
You hire everything's good. I'm good man. You know, I'm
just dealing with something. I'm good And reality, most people
aren't good. And so as you try to navigate loss,
the thing with losing something, whether it be a relationship
like you said, a job or people you love, life
(01:44):
keeps going.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
The world continues to go.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So although you may be going through something, still got
to go to work, still got to take care of
the kids in some situations. They still have to be
attentive to your partner. And so how do you navigate
all of these things while you're dealing with loss?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
And how do you navigate it? How do you go through?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
How do you get through when you find yourself in
a position where you've lost something that you thought at
that time was important to you or was important to you.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So this year has been particularly.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Difficult for me when it comes to loss. Late last year,
my surrogate mother, Valerie Taylor, passed away. My brother Deon Taylor,
grew up with him, lived with him. She took me
into her house. She passed away, and it was devastating,
(02:47):
and you know, we really relied on each other, right,
and we would just spend hours, Dione and myself would
just spend hours, you know, talking and laughing about the
good times. Right Like the one thing Valerie would do,
(03:07):
she would cut your ass out in a minute, right
like she just bust into the house, just let loose
on you. As growing teenage boys, one thing we were
always afraid of was her, and that kept us on
the straight now, like we could. We couldn't come home
smelling like a cigarette. We couldn't come home drunk or
(03:30):
not doing her homework like we they was off the table.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Ain't no more powerful than the black woman boys?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah yeah, a man, please. But what that did was
it kept us focused and so losing her was difficult
for both of us. It was a lot of you know,
crying and all that, but us expressing what she meant
to us. She not only parented us, but she opened
her house to everybody, anybody that needed.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
A place or stability.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
She was, she was there, and she was she was
a she was an angel, and it was difficult man,
but having him and and others to share those moments
with it, it made it tolerable, right, didn't ease the
pain all the way, but it it made it almost
(04:30):
comforting to to to share that level of of of
compassion and honesty with.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
With other people.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
When you remember the legacy of somebody in the lessons
that they left behind, it keeps them alive, so to speak,
because they continue to live throughout you and throughout your brother,
because you can continue to instill that in other people.
You pass along the lessons that you learn from her
along the way to your children.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Absolutely, so the said, we don't do that. Sometimes you
got to cut und when they.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
When they get they're thirteen and well, my thirteen year
old be almost be cussing at him, he's crazy. Well
my ten year old, you know, he's emotional and he's good,
but you know can handle it. No, no, no, no, no,
no no yet. No, they shouldn't be able to.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
They shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
And that's why you know, thankfully they got therapy earlier,
because we had no therapy.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
We did not have didn't have therapy, and so and.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
And speaking of that, because I believe that's a huge
part of dealing with loss too, is because like growing up,
you as I growing up, we were taught that, you know,
first of all, don't cry, you can't. You gotta suppress
this pain. You gotta be a man. You got a
man up. There was no therapy, there was no way
to overcome that grief. You had to cry. A loan
you can buy yourself or whatever. Even at a funeral. Man,
(05:51):
you're wearing the glasses so people don't see your tears.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
You know what I mean. And that was always difficult.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So it's good that today's society, when they deal with grief,
they are allowed to express themselves. I have a good
friend of mine who just lost her daughter. Oh wow,
and she couldn't cry for a while. I'm like, girl,
just I said, no one should tell you how to grieve.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
She was going out.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
She was like a week later she was hanging out
with her friends and people were like, how could you
be hanging out? Like I'm telling her, I'm like, you
grieve the way you feel like period. Don't worry about
what other people have to say about how you express yourself.
But you're gonna have moments and maybe for really for
the rest of your life. Where forty years from now,
(06:35):
there's gonna be a moment that's gonna remind you of
your daughter. There's going to be a smell that reminds
you of your daughter, and you're just gonna bust out crying.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And that's okay.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
And people need to realize that, yeah, you know, when
you're dealing with things, especially the loss of loved ones.
And like I said, this has been a particularly tough year.
So Mama Valerie passed away late last year.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
My father passed away in June.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Wow anchor out of cancer, got diagnosed in February, passed
away in June. So that was two parenting figures that
I lost. And it was I was like, man, this
is like it's a lot. Yeah right, it's a lot.
It's you start to ask yourself, like.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
You know what's going on? Yea, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
And I'm forty eight years old, so you gotta realize,
like time is time.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
You can never stop it, you can never get it back.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
And my father was eighty two, Valerie was in her seventies.
And just to show you how life continues to go
and how life keeps life. In two days ago, John
Hellman Sr. Another parental figure in my life passed away.
(08:10):
I get a call last week on a text Tuesday,
my good friend John Hellman. The only reason I'm playing
football is because John played football. And I lived with
John my eighth grade year and half of my ninth
grade year before I moved in with Dion. And his
father was a single father who adopted him, and he
(08:34):
welcomed me into his home and he missed. He made
every single football game like everything. He was there for us.
And to get that text, hey, my dad's not doing well,
I immediately got on the plane, went up to Sacramento,
sat with him in the hospital, and just he called
(08:54):
me two days ago and said, hey, man, dad passed away.
I just wanted you to know that he loved you.
He was proud of you. And so that's three of
my parental figures who are now gone. And it was
like a truck hit me. Yeah, and that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
In a small amount of it felt like I'm like, Okay,
what's next?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
What's next? Right? Right?
Speaker 3 (09:18):
You can't as a human, you can only you can
only ask that question because it just keeps coming. I
immediately picked up the phone and called my mother and said, hey,
I don't know what's going on, but you better hold
on to that rope.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah you the last one like that.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
But once again on that point, it makes you appreciate
the people who hear a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
You start to cling to them.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You start to realize that, hey, like, you can't take
it for granted. You have to appreciate your life. You
got to do things in your life that you want
to do and realize that Tomorrow's not promise for anybody.
That's why you got to love up on your neighbors,
your friends, your love ones as much as you can.
Why you can't man Like, you know, and I'm sympathetic
(10:05):
and I'm empathetic for everything that you've gone through. Man,
I've told you, bro, like, the last two and a
half years my life, man, been the tougher years of
my life.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I'm like, I just turned fifty four years old and
the things I've gone through, Man, Like, I thank God.
I know it's only by God's grace that I'm still
here because had I not experienced a lot of things
in my life Earlier in my life when we were talking
about helping you through things, the things I've gone through
(10:35):
over the last two and a half years would have
killed me. It would have killed me. But because of
what I've experienced in the past sort of prepared me
in a sense or gave me a different skin or
a different muscle to help me through it. But I've
never experienced everything all at the same time. I've been
divorced before, right, but in the last two and a
(10:57):
half years, I had another divorce. I've lost love ones,
but in the last two and a half years, I've
lost four people that were close to meet the death.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I've lost friends before, but.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Recently I've lost a lot of people who are close
to me, and all at the same encompassing time.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Man.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
And what I've learned from that is like, God doesn't
give you more than you can handle. But sometimes you
wonder if God knows how much you candle, man, because
it's and you wonder when it's going to end.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Man.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
But we are both huge when it comes to therapy
and mental health and now being able to express ourselves
and being able to let it go and being able
to let the tears flow because before I would suppress it.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, like you talked about your upbringing, right, little boys
always taught to suck it up. You don't be crying,
don't do that, and don't do this, and so you
grow up with that heardened sense of emotion. You don't
know how to tap in to that side of your emotions,
which makes you an imbalanced person because there is no
(12:00):
all vibrato or toughness without sadness, emotion, and fear. And
if you don't tap into that, you won't be able
to deal with loss in a productive way. And it's
funny to try to say deal with loss productively, but
they are unproductive ways you can go about loss. Dealing
(12:21):
with loss right inflicting pain on yourself or others, and
drug use, alcoholism, all of these things to numb the
pain instead of living in the pain and dealing with
the pain. I don't drink or smoke, never have. So
the reality of the situation is I've never been able
(12:43):
through anything that I've gone through in my life. I've
never been able to go home and take the edge
off right right, right, I've never been able to go
So what was your outlet?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Then?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
How did you deal with that trauma? Because I'm gonna
get to the reason why I did a lot of things.
How did you deal with that trump? Because if you
don't have that outlet. It is sitting there somewhere and
it's going to come out as toxic. Masculinity is going
to come out in some kind of ice that you
need to release that.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I would internalize it, right, I would run off and
I would escape to the movies. So I would go
sit in a movie theater by myself and just leave
the world behind. That's why film, to me, is so important.
That's why I got into film production. That's why I
got into television and into entertainment because I know the
(13:34):
power of letting go and getting sucked up into something scapism,
right like, I know the power of that. So creating
those mediums for someone else to be able to sit
in and deal it, would just find some peace while
(13:56):
they're dealing with things, to me, was very important. That's
why I really got into it and telling the types
of stories that I know people want to hear and
be able to get swept up in so you can
find a piece of escapism. The world is tough, man,
it's not. I don't care. It doesn't have anything with
(14:17):
your socioeconomic background, how much money you make where you
were born. Paying is paying. Loss is loss, and we
all have our ways to deal with it. And you know,
I've watched people self medicate before. I've seen, you know,
people have a sip of wine or you know, go
(14:39):
to the bar and all of that.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
So for me, it was just movies and video games.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
But I commend you for turning your burden into a
blessing because you learned the lesson and you did it
in a positive way. And a lot of people don't
even see how you can turn something negative into a
positive and how your trauma can be something that's positive.
And that's that's rare. And this is the first time
I've ever heard somebody say it that way. So maybe
that isn't out that finds something positive instead of the negative.
(15:07):
Because I told you before, and I've said it many times, man,
I think people understand that now. It's like, I know
part of my pain of why I did a lot
of things that I did.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And not using this as an excuse.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I still take full accountability for everything I've ever done
in relationships or whatever. But I know from therapy and
talking it through the why of why I was a
womanizer because that made me feel good. That was my cocaine,
that was my alcohol, That was because I've never abused alcohol,
I've never abused cocaine anything like that. But when I
(15:39):
was feeling down, depressed, when I was feeling inadequate, I
would always turn to a woman because a woman would make.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Me feel better.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Not just the sex, but some of the things that
a woman would say to you. You're a king, you're beautiful,
you're and you hear these things and it's almost like
it feeds a different endorphin man and it.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Makes you feel better or about yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
And so I'm not saying that you know, if you're
not hearing it at home, that you should go finding
other places. But if you're not hearing it at home,
if you're not hearing it at home and you're going
through this and the person you're with doesn't understand, you
start to lean to us.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
That.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Now, what I've learned is I've learned that because I
go through therapy, that I have to feed myself even
if I'm not being fed by someone else. Loving yourself,
overcoming loss, Loving yourself is so much more important than
anyone else loving you, because you cannot expect anyone to
(16:37):
love you unless.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
You love yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
You have got to pour into yourself you got to
feed yourself. You have got to make yourself happy before
anybody else makes you happy, and so you can't supplement
that from anything else.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Even when you're dealing with a loss.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
And you're absolutely right, and people will ask you, well,
how do I make myself happy?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Right?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Like, what do I do to make myself happy? And
my advice not that I'm a therapist, but I am
in therapy. My advice will be fine, the one little
thing that you love doing, and I mean the little thing.
It could be a crossword puzzle, it could be the
(17:23):
smallest thing that for whatever, however long you do it,
you just feel safe and focus in on that thing.
It could be pouring yourself into others, your family, your
significant other, your kids, whatever that is that brings you joy.
(17:49):
It's the only way that you can really encompass laws.
And I tell you this, everyone's different. Everyone experienced is
loss and deals with it in different.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Ways and at different times, and it takes on. But
we're human.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And the one thing you said that right there, the
one thing that we all have in common, it's time. Yes,
time is the great equalizer, because no matter how painful
something is today, tomorrow is less painful, yep.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And you may not feel that it's.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Less painful, but the day after tomorrow it's less painful.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
You may endure weeping for tonight, but joy comes in
the morning.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
You never know, and you never know, but once again,
it's like you know you have an opportunity once again,
when you lose something or someone, realize that tomorrow is
not guaranteed. But if you get that opportunity, use that
as the blessing and to a point of switching things around.
Going through therapy has also made me realize that not
just losing loved ones, but losing job and losing opportunities
(19:02):
and things like that. In the last two and a
half years, lost a job, you know, had this main
job that I was doing making great money, national show,
and everything, go to work one day, wake up the
next day, wake up the next morning, and the show's
bankrupt and you're out of work.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Gone gone.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
And that was two and a half years ago, and
I haven't had anything consistent since then. But I've been
hustling and I found my way. But once again, sometimes
bro lost and I hate people, hate to see it
that way, but sometimes lost is the best thing for you,
not the loss of a loved one. Obviously, you hate
to see anybody lose a loved one keep their legacy.
(19:39):
But when you lose friends, and when you lose opportunities
and jobs. And I told you about some of the opportunities.
I told you that there was a situation where I
heard that somebody was speaking negatively about me for whatever
reason because I was on the Housewives show. Cost me
a huge opportunity because of that or whatever. All they
have to do is say the magic words of this
(19:59):
and that. And I wasn't able to get that opportunity.
But I was when I was upset at the beginning.
I was thinking, I was just like, what if that
person did me a favor? Because all opportunities aren't the
right opportunities.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Oh that's the fact.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, all friendships that you have, sometimes you will lose
a friend because that friend isn't meant to go with
you in the next phase of your life. That friend
could have been an anchor, That friend could have dragged
you down. That friend may not be ready for you
to take that next step in the blessings that you
have with the favor that you have in the next
step of your life in.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Order for you to get that favor.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
In order for you to get that next blessing, you
had to cut ties with the person that was holding
you down.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
So sometimes loss is good.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, we don't we don't see what tomorrow holds. We
don't know the future.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
If you're spiritual and you believe in God, it's for
all part of God's plan, right, It's all been written, right,
And so while you're haggling over the whys, start looking
for you know, the next step, right, don't wonder why
(21:18):
this and why that?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
How about? Now? What? Now?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
What?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Okay? Right? How about now? What? All right? I lost
that opportunity? So now what? Right? All right? Man?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
We fell out. I loved her. We're no longer together. Okay,
so now what right? Because there is there is something
at the end of the now what There is an
answer to that question. There may not be an answer
to the why until you get to what's next? Oh yep, now,
(21:55):
I see, yep, right, broke up with her. Six months
later I ended up meeting the love of my life,
my wife, And you don't know, Oh my gosh, happen.
I didn't get I didn't get the job, right. I
wanted that job, that was my dream job. Six months later. Right,
oh my.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
God, story on that go ahead, especially that part right there.
When I was in Dallas, got fired in Dallas. Long story,
terrible boss whatever.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Getting fired from a lot of jobs. Man, don't get
fired from this one man. We need well, we need
this one man's whoever out there, don't fire.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Him every time.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Every time that I've every time that something's happened, a
bigger blessing can. So that's the way. I hope it's
the big blessing. This could be blessing whatever. But I
got that was the only time I've ever been fired.
Other other times been like you know, anyway, let go
well that that time I got fired. I was out
of work for a year and a half. I had
a family, new born child, everything, man, dire straits. I
(22:58):
was desperate. Finally couldn't get anything. I was being felt
like I was being black ball in the business. Finally
some doors started opening up. There was an opportunity in Tampa.
That's when I was working in Dallas. Went to Tampa,
did the audition. This man tells me, he says, as
long as I don't find out you're an axe murderer,
(23:19):
it's direct quote.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
As long as I don't find out you an axe murderer.
This is your job.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I go next door to take the pist tests. You
take the pitch test. You pretty much into and I said,
I ain't smoking no week, so I know I'm good.
I ain't no ax man, I ain't smoking no week.
So I'm gonna get me a job. I'm gonna get
back in this business. Been out of a year for
a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Take that.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Don't hear anything for two weeks, Bro, don't hear anything
for two weeks. I called back to this producer I
met while I was there, Bro, what's going on. I'm like,
I just started looking at the houses in the Tampa
area everything. I'm just doing the job, doing the job
as mind. He said, not gonna bring you in because
the guy who fired you in Dallas is talking negatively.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh yeah right, I'm pissed. Man.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I'm in my car getting my forward explored at the time.
I'm going down to the turnpike in Dallas and I'm
about to hurt this dude.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I swear to God, I'm about to hurt this dude.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
I'm about to somebody going to jail to night, somebody
going I'm dead serious. Bro, this is the maddest I've
been in my life.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Man.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I'm serious, man, because he's now not only did this
man fire me, you know, you know, without cause or whatever, unfairly,
but now you're messing with my future. And I didn't
do anything to my family. And this is my family.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Man. I'm looking at my child. I want to feed
my kids. Man. I'm on that turnpike. Man, I'm mad.
I'm like, I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Going to go to jail tonight because I'm going to
hurt this man.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I swear to God.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I don't know what it was, but I was so
hot and it had to be like ninety five degrees
at night in Dallas. You know how to get some
I was so hot the air condition is blowing, man,
and nothing would cool me down. So I let my
window down. When I let the window down, I swear
to God, bro, and I think I get emotion even
thinking about this. I swear to God.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Bruh.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I heard a voice that said, what you're doing. He said,
you're about to mess it up. You're about to whoo.
He said, You're about to mess it up. And as
mad as I was, BRO, just that quickly, man, I
calmed down to the comments that have been in my life. Man,
I got off the turnpike, turned back around, went home.
I prayed, and I said, God, whatever you want me
(25:24):
to do is let me know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Three weeks later, Man ESPN called me. Had I gotten
a job in Tampa, I would not have been available
for ESPN. I didn't really want the job in Tampa.
I needed a job in tak I wouldn't have been
available for ESPN. Had I gone down there that night
and carried that through you wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
I would not be sitting with you right now. My
career would have been over.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
So imagine had I get so the fact that that
man caused me.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
To not get that job in Tampa was a blessing.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
It was a blessing because had he not said anything,
I would have accepted that job in Tampa. I would
have been down there doing the job at the last
PlayStation and in a market that I really didn't want
to be in at that time or whatever, doing something
I probably didn't want to do, and I would not
have been available to go to ESPN. It wasn't my time.
So that No, that loss turned out to be the
(26:24):
biggest thing in my life in my career, and without that,
I know I wouldn't be saying I wouldn't be in
the position I am right now because those four letters.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I met you at ESPN.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
You know what I mean, the things that that platform
those nine years, and I could talk about what I
went through, the ups and downs there, but I know
because of that platform, man, it elevated me to a
point to be in the.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Position that I am. Put you on a national state,
It put me on every day.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Stay every day, and I got I became a name,
I became a name in a sports community that I
still have because of that. I had my job at
Fox because of ESPN. I married my life as because
of ESPN. Everything that I have was because of that network,
because of that opportunity, And that opportunity wasn't going to
be there had I messed it up, or had that
(27:09):
man not been a blessing for me when I thought he.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Was a burden.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
So you were in the car on your way to
get the answer to why I was. I was gonna
find out why. You were gonna find out the why
something called to you. You went home, you prayed on it, yep,
and you prayed for the what now I pray for
the What now?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
I said, what do you want me to do? Just wait?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
He said, wait, be patient, And three weeks later your
life changed. Your family's like, man, my life.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And what's crazy is three weeks later, two weeks later,
I got a call from Houston, right saying, we want
you to fly in for this job, opportunity whatever. I
go down there a week later to audition in Houston.
I'm all on the set an audition, do the good audition,
get to the airport. When I'm in the airport. While
I'm in the airport, my agent caused me. He says, oh,
(28:00):
you got the job? Like what Houston already?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Like?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
No, it's not Houston, she said, ESPN wants you. I
was up for a role with this show called Cold
Pizza at the time in New York. I remember that
I had auditioned at ESPN before whatever. Right, didn't hear
anything from it. As a matter of fact, I heard
from ESPN they said I didn't get the job. Guy
named Daryknoko was a good friend of mine, love him
to death. He got the job over me, right, and
I guess I.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Finished the second or whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And so they said we want to fly you in
to you know, look at co for cold pizza and
all that type of stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Right cool.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I was thinking about that while I'm in Houston once again.
Get the job of the air get the phone call
the airport from my agent. My agent says, Mike, you
got the job.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I'm like what she said. No, she said, ESPN wants
to fly you in. She wants ESPN wants to hire you.
Might what.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
So I went from almost getting a job in Tampa
not getting a job in Tampa, Houston opportunity comes along,
thinking that's Houston. All these doors started opening up. Oh
also Fox Sports, Fox Sports Southwest, a regional wanted to
hire me. So all these doors opened up because that
door closed in Tampa, because the door closed basically in
(29:03):
Dallas a year because I would have been in content
in Dallas with that guy, and the guy that he
hired after me lasted was down there for seventeen years
before the other guy retired.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
He's just now the main guy.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
But I'm telling you, man, sometimes the biggest losses in
your life trying out to be the biggest gains.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
And to that point, relationship wise, I think I was
in six year in the league, going into my sixth year,
and I had really loved this girl I had met
in college. We were on again, off again. She stepped out,
(29:43):
you know, I was off playing. She was living her life.
You mean stepped out? What you mean like, no, no,
she was. We weren't together, okay, okay, okay. She went
had a baby and not yours. No no, no, no no,
not mine, and you know, didn't work out with her
baby's father at the time and all of that, and
(30:04):
so we started connecting again and she was really depressed
and all of that. I'm like, look, man, it's all good.
We just you know, this off season, we'll come hang out.
I said, pick anywhere you want to go, just so
we can get away and whatever. And she said, I've
never been to Jamaica. So we go to Jamaica, had
a wonderful time. Right, we come back home and I
was in I was like, look, whatever it is you
(30:25):
want to do, I'm down, all right. She was like,
all right, I just need some time, take some time,
and said all right. Boom. And so about a month
and a half, two months later, she calls me and
was like, hey, I need to tell you something.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I said, Okay, what's up?
Speaker 3 (30:44):
She was like, I'm getting back with my son's father
and we're gonna get married.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
And I said okay. I said, look, I I'm here.
We were friends before we were anything. Whatever you need,
let me know, I wish you the best. Two months later,
I'm in La at the BT Awards and I'm staying
(31:17):
at the mandri on and I'm looking out off the
balcony and they're setting up for a big party down there.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
So I go down. I'm like, what's going on, man,
what's popping?
Speaker 3 (31:27):
And they're like, Beyonce is having an album release party right.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
This was June twenty twenty three, twenty two thousand two, Yeah,
two thousand and three, twenty three, And so I'm like,
all right, cool, boom, we're there. I'm at the party.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
We down there, everybody there, boom boom, boom boom, And
this young lady is over where I'm here I am.
And we started talking and hitting it off, and twenty
one years later, we've been married for eighteen of them.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Had you been with the other girl in that situation,
had she not taken herself out of the equation and
gotten back at the time, been available, Because I know
you're one woman.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I'm good man, I just wonder. I just want to
be in love. I just want to love on somebody,
had him love on me back.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, that's it. I don't have enough time and energy
for all of that.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
But if I'm stuck on the well, why she don't
want me? Or why she going back with him? Obviously,
and they're still together, they're still married, they have more kids,
so that was.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Perfect for her.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
But for me, instead of the why, I'm like, Okay, well,
well now, and I end up meeting the love of
my life, my wife, the mother of my two beautiful sons,
and we've been together for twenty one years and it
started that night. Had I been in a relationship, I
wouldn't have been open and to meeting the person I
(33:03):
was supposed to be with.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Bro and you and you guys really truly love each other.
I mean you're my favorite couple in the world. I mean,
like you're the epitome of what a family is and
should be.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I'm trying game. I mean I did twenty two.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I mean that was three different ones, you know what
I mean, you got dis whatever. I don't have that
happily ever yet, but maybe one day, man. So number one,
Thank you for sharing. Thank you all right, and you
got emotional, but that's what it's supposed to be. It's
supposed to be emotional. Emotions have to go some much
(33:42):
shame and doing that, bro.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
And you know, one of the biggest takeaways from from
what you said to me was.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Timing. Mm hmm. Right.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Things happen in our lives. We don't understand the time
of what right. We talked about the wise and the
what now is in the right. Most people don't have
the self control that you showed the car on the
(34:14):
turnpipe going to do something this way out of your
character because you felt that you were put in that position.
And just hearing that and hearing you take a moment
turn the car around resonates Because.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
My father used to say this.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
My father worked in the prison system for twenty six years,
some of the toughest prisons in the world.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
He said, ninety seconds. What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
He said, I'm in a building with men who changed
their whole lives in ninety seconds. A ninety second decision
can ruin your life or it can enhance your life.
And just listening to that story, I'm like, Wow, that's
(35:10):
a ninety second moment.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, well, I'm glad that God intervened. And once again
it's divine intervention there, man, because once again you're right.
Making the wrong decision could have totally gone the opposite
direction for me.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Man.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
And I appreciate you sharing what you share with me
because I've heard the story about you.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Being at the Mondreon Mandren and the Beyonce.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
I didn't know the prior to that, and you've helped
me just listening to you talking about dealing with lost.
Now you know what I mean, because, like I said,
everything that I'm going through as far as like professionally
trying to figure.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Out Man, I've been thinking what now?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
But now I know because of what I've lost, because
of what I lost isn't because.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I'm being punished.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
It means that what now is going to happen for
me and what I'm about to gain. And I pray
that professionally I gain my reniese. You know what I mean,
your wife, I pray that because of what I lost
and not dwelling on it, because I really haven't dwelled
on it. I've been you know, God taking care of
me whatever, and I've been able to take care of
(36:18):
myself and still hustle whatever, But now I know what's
coming next is the equivalent professionally to your renaese. Yeah,
and that's the happily ever after that I'm looking for professionally,
And that's all you can ask That's all you can
ask for. Man, Look, we don't know the grand design
of each and of each other's lives, or not even
our own lives.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
But what we can do is is take time, breathe, share. Yeah,
be open about loss, be open about dealing with loss. Right,
(36:56):
whether it's someone in your life that you know that
you can talk talk to, there are plenty of outlets
out there for you to find help, to find someone
to help you deal with it, because look, it's one
thing we all know as humans.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Pain is pain.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Whether you lose a job, a loved one, a relationship,
it all hurts, right, and my pain isn't any different
than your pain, right, There are different degrees with different people,
but just know, right, you're not alone, not alone. You're
not alone. I'm telling you you're not alone, even if
(37:37):
you feel alone. And so I'm excited that we got
a chance to do this episode just you and I
and talk about this because when we set out on
this journey. It was always important for us to be
open and candid about the things that we've gone through
(37:58):
and hopes that it would help. Yep, any anybody watching
or listening. And you know the name of the podcast
is done There, Been that, yep. And we just shared
serious moments of us done there and Ben that.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, genuine, authentic, real transparent.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
And this is the reason why I wanted to do
it and do it with you, because I knew you'd
be open about that and I'm happy that we can
and I want people out there to understand that once again,
you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
You got to find your tribe.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
You got to find your safe space of somebody that
you can talk to. And if you feel like you
can't talk to somebody, man, there's a higher spirit. If
you're spiritual, you cannot find that person, but express it
in some kind of way in a positive manner.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
That's one thing that we also learned.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
A positive outlet for you to express yourself and get
it out, whether it's pain, whether it's anger, whether it's sadness,
whatever you feel.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
You know, I heard.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Ludacris say take an x X and let that shit go.
You gotta let that shit. You got to let it go.
So we're happy that you joined us for this. We
will continue to have these type of conversations throughout each
and every week. On the Done there have been that podcast. Man,
it's just an exceptional thing. I love you, my brother,
my God. I love you too, brother, and I'm always
(39:17):
here for you, and I appreciate you always being there
for us, and we appreciate you being there for us
as well. On the Done there have been that podcast.
Make sure you subscribe to each and every one of
our episodes that come out, get the notifications so when
it comes out, so they don't miss one episode of
this podcast that we're putting on for you till next week.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
See Mike Keil, I'm from Salam. We'll see you next week.
Y'all.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
This is the Inflection collective part for us, A connective,
reflective perspective, perspective, defensive shit shat, no cap despect facts
of kick back.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Just here for sun.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
There be that.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
All right, we back up in here another edition of
the Done There Have Been That podcast brought to you
by the Inflection Entertainment Network in Ilheart Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I am your host, Mike.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hill, and I am a from Salam And thank you
guys for being a part of this episode with us. Uh,
we're going to talk about navigating loss.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll make sure you subscribe as well
as we continue to navigate through our journey on the
Done There Have Been That podcast. Thank you for hanging
out with us through the first couple of episodes. We've
had a lot of time. But we're gonna talk about
navigating loss, man, because obviously everybody has experienced a loss,
whether that's in a relationship, whether that's a job, whether
that's a friendship or whatever.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But how do you navigate it?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I think we've gone through a couple of things and
experiences in our lives that we like to pass along
some of our maybe our tip to help some.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
People out there. Yeah, but just to talk about it.
You know, what I've learned is you know, during times
of loss, if you have the courage to speak about it,
speak about how you feel. So many times we say
I'm good. So many times we say I'm good man.
(01:22):
You hire everything's good. I'm good man. You know, I'm
just dealing with something. I'm good And reality, most people
aren't good. And so as you try to navigate loss,
the thing with losing something, whether it be a relationship
like you said, a job or people you love, life
(01:44):
keeps going.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
The world continues to go.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So although you may be going through something, still got
to go to work, still got to take care of
the kids in some situations. They still have to be
attentive to your partner. And so how do you navigate
all of these things while you're dealing with loss?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
And how do you navigate it? How do you go through?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
How do you get through when you find yourself in
a position where you've lost something that you thought at
that time was important to you or was important to you.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
So this year has been particularly.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Difficult for me when it comes to loss. Late last year,
my surrogate mother, Valerie Taylor, passed away. My brother Deon Taylor,
grew up with him, lived with him. She took me
into her house. She passed away, and it was devastating,
(02:47):
and you know, we really relied on each other, right,
and we would just spend hours, Dione and myself would
just spend hours, you know, talking and laughing about the
good times. Right Like the one thing Valerie would do,
(03:07):
she would cut your ass out in a minute, right
like she just bust into the house, just let loose
on you. As growing teenage boys, one thing we were
always afraid of was her, and that kept us on
the straight now, like we could. We couldn't come home
smelling like a cigarette. We couldn't come home drunk or
(03:30):
not doing her homework like we they was off the table.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Ain't no more powerful than the black woman boys?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah yeah, a man, please. But what that did was
it kept us focused and so losing her was difficult
for both of us. It was a lot of you know,
crying and all that, but us expressing what she meant
to us. She not only parented us, but she opened
her house to everybody, anybody that needed.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
A place or stability.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
She was, she was there, and she was she was
a she was an angel, and it was difficult man,
but having him and and others to share those moments
with it, it made it tolerable, right, didn't ease the
pain all the way, but it it made it almost
(04:30):
comforting to to to share that level of of of
compassion and honesty with.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
With other people.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
When you remember the legacy of somebody in the lessons
that they left behind, it keeps them alive, so to speak,
because they continue to live throughout you and throughout your brother,
because you can continue to instill that in other people.
You pass along the lessons that you learn from her
along the way to your children.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Absolutely, so the said, we don't do that. Sometimes you
got to cut und when they.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
When they get they're thirteen and well, my thirteen year
old be almost be cussing at him, he's crazy. Well
my ten year old, you know, he's emotional and he's good,
but you know can handle it. No, no, no, no, no,
no no yet. No, they shouldn't be able to.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
They shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
And that's why you know, thankfully they got therapy earlier,
because we had no therapy.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
We did not have didn't have therapy, and so and.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
And speaking of that, because I believe that's a huge
part of dealing with loss too, is because like growing up,
you as I growing up, we were taught that, you know,
first of all, don't cry, you can't. You gotta suppress
this pain. You gotta be a man. You got a
man up. There was no therapy, there was no way
to overcome that grief. You had to cry. A loan
you can buy yourself or whatever. Even at a funeral. Man,
(05:51):
you're wearing the glasses so people don't see your tears.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
You know what I mean. And that was always difficult.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
So it's good that today's society, when they deal with grief,
they are allowed to express themselves. I have a good
friend of mine who just lost her daughter. Oh wow,
and she couldn't cry for a while. I'm like, girl,
just I said, no one should tell you how to grieve.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
She was going out.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
She was like a week later she was hanging out
with her friends and people were like, how could you
be hanging out? Like I'm telling her, I'm like, you
grieve the way you feel like period. Don't worry about
what other people have to say about how you express yourself.
But you're gonna have moments and maybe for really for
the rest of your life. Where forty years from now,
(06:35):
there's gonna be a moment that's gonna remind you of
your daughter. There's going to be a smell that reminds
you of your daughter, and you're just gonna bust out crying.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
And that's okay.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
And people need to realize that, yeah, you know, when
you're dealing with things, especially the loss of loved ones.
And like I said, this has been a particularly tough year.
So Mama Valerie passed away late last year.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
My father passed away in June.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Wow anchor out of cancer, got diagnosed in February, passed
away in June. So that was two parenting figures that
I lost. And it was I was like, man, this
is like it's a lot. Yeah right, it's a lot.
It's you start to ask yourself, like.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
You know what's going on? Yea, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
And I'm forty eight years old, so you gotta realize,
like time is time.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
You can never stop it, you can never get it back.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
And my father was eighty two, Valerie was in her seventies.
And just to show you how life continues to go
and how life keeps life. In two days ago, John
Hellman Sr. Another parental figure in my life passed away.
(08:10):
I get a call last week on a text Tuesday,
my good friend John Hellman. The only reason I'm playing
football is because John played football. And I lived with
John my eighth grade year and half of my ninth
grade year before I moved in with Dion. And his
father was a single father who adopted him, and he
(08:34):
welcomed me into his home and he missed. He made
every single football game like everything. He was there for us.
And to get that text, hey, my dad's not doing well,
I immediately got on the plane, went up to Sacramento,
sat with him in the hospital, and just he called
(08:54):
me two days ago and said, hey, man, dad passed away.
I just wanted you to know that he loved you.
He was proud of you. And so that's three of
my parental figures who are now gone. And it was
like a truck hit me. Yeah, and that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
In a small amount of it felt like I'm like, Okay,
what's next?
Speaker 1 (09:16):
What's next? Right? Right?
Speaker 3 (09:18):
You can't as a human, you can only you can
only ask that question because it just keeps coming. I
immediately picked up the phone and called my mother and said, hey,
I don't know what's going on, but you better hold
on to that rope.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah you the last one like that.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
But once again on that point, it makes you appreciate
the people who hear a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
You start to cling to them.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You start to realize that, hey, like, you can't take
it for granted. You have to appreciate your life. You
got to do things in your life that you want
to do and realize that Tomorrow's not promise for anybody.
That's why you got to love up on your neighbors,
your friends, your love ones as much as you can.
Why you can't man Like, you know, and I'm sympathetic
(10:05):
and I'm empathetic for everything that you've gone through. Man,
I've told you, bro, like, the last two and a
half years my life, man, been the tougher years of
my life.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I'm like, I just turned fifty four years old and
the things I've gone through, Man, Like, I thank God.
I know it's only by God's grace that I'm still
here because had I not experienced a lot of things
in my life Earlier in my life when we were talking
about helping you through things, the things I've gone through
(10:35):
over the last two and a half years would have
killed me. It would have killed me. But because of
what I've experienced in the past sort of prepared me
in a sense or gave me a different skin or
a different muscle to help me through it. But I've
never experienced everything all at the same time. I've been
divorced before, right, but in the last two and a
(10:57):
half years, I had another divorce. I've lost love ones,
but in the last two and a half years, I've
lost four people that were close to meet the death.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I've lost friends before, but.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Recently I've lost a lot of people who are close
to me, and all at the same encompassing time.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Man.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
And what I've learned from that is like, God doesn't
give you more than you can handle. But sometimes you
wonder if God knows how much you candle, man, because
it's and you wonder when it's going to end.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Man.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
But we are both huge when it comes to therapy
and mental health and now being able to express ourselves
and being able to let it go and being able
to let the tears flow because before I would suppress it.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Well.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah, like you talked about your upbringing, right, little boys
always taught to suck it up. You don't be crying,
don't do that, and don't do this, and so you
grow up with that heardened sense of emotion. You don't
know how to tap in to that side of your emotions,
which makes you an imbalanced person because there is no
(12:00):
all vibrato or toughness without sadness, emotion, and fear. And
if you don't tap into that, you won't be able
to deal with loss in a productive way. And it's
funny to try to say deal with loss productively, but
they are unproductive ways you can go about loss. Dealing
(12:21):
with loss right inflicting pain on yourself or others, and
drug use, alcoholism, all of these things to numb the
pain instead of living in the pain and dealing with
the pain. I don't drink or smoke, never have. So
the reality of the situation is I've never been able
(12:43):
through anything that I've gone through in my life. I've
never been able to go home and take the edge
off right right, right, I've never been able to go
So what was your outlet?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Then?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
How did you deal with that trauma? Because I'm gonna
get to the reason why I did a lot of things.
How did you deal with that trump? Because if you
don't have that outlet. It is sitting there somewhere and
it's going to come out as toxic. Masculinity is going
to come out in some kind of ice that you
need to release that.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I would internalize it, right, I would run off and
I would escape to the movies. So I would go
sit in a movie theater by myself and just leave
the world behind. That's why film, to me, is so important.
That's why I got into film production. That's why I
got into television and into entertainment because I know the
(13:34):
power of letting go and getting sucked up into something scapism,
right like, I know the power of that. So creating
those mediums for someone else to be able to sit
in and deal it, would just find some peace while
(13:56):
they're dealing with things, to me, was very important. That's
why I really got into it and telling the types
of stories that I know people want to hear and
be able to get swept up in so you can
find a piece of escapism. The world is tough, man,
it's not. I don't care. It doesn't have anything with
(14:17):
your socioeconomic background, how much money you make where you
were born. Paying is paying. Loss is loss, and we
all have our ways to deal with it. And you know,
I've watched people self medicate before. I've seen, you know,
people have a sip of wine or you know, go
(14:39):
to the bar and all of that.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
So for me, it was just movies and video games.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
But I commend you for turning your burden into a
blessing because you learned the lesson and you did it
in a positive way. And a lot of people don't
even see how you can turn something negative into a
positive and how your trauma can be something that's positive.
And that's that's rare. And this is the first time
I've ever heard somebody say it that way. So maybe
that isn't out that finds something positive instead of the negative.
(15:07):
Because I told you before, and I've said it many times, man,
I think people understand that now. It's like, I know
part of my pain of why I did a lot
of things that I did.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And not using this as an excuse.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I still take full accountability for everything I've ever done
in relationships or whatever. But I know from therapy and
talking it through the why of why I was a
womanizer because that made me feel good. That was my cocaine,
that was my alcohol, That was because I've never abused alcohol,
I've never abused cocaine anything like that. But when I
(15:39):
was feeling down, depressed, when I was feeling inadequate, I
would always turn to a woman because a woman would make.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Me feel better.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Not just the sex, but some of the things that
a woman would say to you. You're a king, you're beautiful,
you're and you hear these things and it's almost like
it feeds a different endorphin man and it.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Makes you feel better or about yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
And so I'm not saying that you know, if you're
not hearing it at home, that you should go finding
other places. But if you're not hearing it at home,
if you're not hearing it at home and you're going
through this and the person you're with doesn't understand, you
start to lean to us.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
That.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Now, what I've learned is I've learned that because I
go through therapy, that I have to feed myself even
if I'm not being fed by someone else. Loving yourself,
overcoming loss, Loving yourself is so much more important than
anyone else loving you, because you cannot expect anyone to
(16:37):
love you unless.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
You love yourself.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
You have got to pour into yourself you got to
feed yourself. You have got to make yourself happy before
anybody else makes you happy, and so you can't supplement
that from anything else.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Even when you're dealing with a loss.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
And you're absolutely right, and people will ask you, well,
how do I make myself happy?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Right?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Like, what do I do to make myself happy? And
my advice not that I'm a therapist, but I am
in therapy. My advice will be fine, the one little
thing that you love doing, and I mean the little thing.
It could be a crossword puzzle, it could be the
(17:23):
smallest thing that for whatever, however long you do it,
you just feel safe and focus in on that thing.
It could be pouring yourself into others, your family, your
significant other, your kids, whatever that is that brings you joy.
(17:49):
It's the only way that you can really encompass laws.
And I tell you this, everyone's different. Everyone experienced is
loss and deals with it in different.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Ways and at different times, and it takes on. But
we're human.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And the one thing you said that right there, the
one thing that we all have in common, it's time. Yes,
time is the great equalizer, because no matter how painful
something is today, tomorrow is less painful, yep.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
And you may not feel that it's.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Less painful, but the day after tomorrow it's less painful.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
You may endure weeping for tonight, but joy comes in
the morning.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
You never know, and you never know, but once again,
it's like you know you have an opportunity once again,
when you lose something or someone, realize that tomorrow is
not guaranteed. But if you get that opportunity, use that
as the blessing and to a point of switching things around.
Going through therapy has also made me realize that not
just losing loved ones, but losing job and losing opportunities
(19:02):
and things like that. In the last two and a
half years, lost a job, you know, had this main
job that I was doing making great money, national show,
and everything, go to work one day, wake up the
next day, wake up the next morning, and the show's
bankrupt and you're out of work.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Gone gone.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
And that was two and a half years ago, and
I haven't had anything consistent since then. But I've been
hustling and I found my way. But once again, sometimes
bro lost and I hate people, hate to see it
that way, but sometimes lost is the best thing for you,
not the loss of a loved one. Obviously, you hate
to see anybody lose a loved one keep their legacy.
(19:39):
But when you lose friends, and when you lose opportunities
and jobs. And I told you about some of the opportunities.
I told you that there was a situation where I
heard that somebody was speaking negatively about me for whatever
reason because I was on the Housewives show. Cost me
a huge opportunity because of that or whatever. All they
have to do is say the magic words of this
(19:59):
and that. And I wasn't able to get that opportunity.
But I was when I was upset at the beginning.
I was thinking, I was just like, what if that
person did me a favor? Because all opportunities aren't the
right opportunities.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Oh that's the fact.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, all friendships that you have, sometimes you will lose
a friend because that friend isn't meant to go with
you in the next phase of your life. That friend
could have been an anchor, That friend could have dragged
you down. That friend may not be ready for you
to take that next step in the blessings that you
have with the favor that you have in the next
step of your life in.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Order for you to get that favor.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
In order for you to get that next blessing, you
had to cut ties with the person that was holding
you down.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
So sometimes loss is good.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Yeah, we don't we don't see what tomorrow holds. We
don't know the future.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
If you're spiritual and you believe in God, it's for
all part of God's plan, right, It's all been written, right,
And so while you're haggling over the whys, start looking
for you know, the next step, right, don't wonder why
(21:18):
this and why that?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
How about? Now? What? Now?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
What?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Okay? Right? How about now? What? All right? I lost
that opportunity? So now what? Right? All right? Man?
Speaker 3 (21:31):
We fell out. I loved her. We're no longer together. Okay,
so now what right? Because there is there is something
at the end of the now what There is an
answer to that question. There may not be an answer
to the why until you get to what's next? Oh yep, now,
(21:55):
I see, yep, right, broke up with her. Six months
later I ended up meeting the love of my life,
my wife, And you don't know, Oh my gosh, happen.
I didn't get I didn't get the job, right. I
wanted that job, that was my dream job. Six months later. Right,
oh my.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
God, story on that go ahead, especially that part right there.
When I was in Dallas, got fired in Dallas. Long story,
terrible boss whatever.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Getting fired from a lot of jobs. Man, don't get
fired from this one man. We need well, we need
this one man's whoever out there, don't fire.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Him every time.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Every time that I've every time that something's happened, a
bigger blessing can. So that's the way. I hope it's
the big blessing. This could be blessing whatever. But I
got that was the only time I've ever been fired.
Other other times been like you know, anyway, let go
well that that time I got fired. I was out
of work for a year and a half. I had
a family, new born child, everything, man, dire straits. I
(22:58):
was desperate. Finally couldn't get anything. I was being felt
like I was being black ball in the business. Finally
some doors started opening up. There was an opportunity in Tampa.
That's when I was working in Dallas. Went to Tampa,
did the audition. This man tells me, he says, as
long as I don't find out you're an axe murderer,
(23:19):
it's direct quote.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
As long as I don't find out you an axe murderer.
This is your job.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I go next door to take the pist tests. You
take the pitch test. You pretty much into and I said,
I ain't smoking no week, so I know I'm good.
I ain't no ax man, I ain't smoking no week.
So I'm gonna get me a job. I'm gonna get
back in this business. Been out of a year for
a year and a half.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Take that.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Don't hear anything for two weeks, Bro, don't hear anything
for two weeks. I called back to this producer I
met while I was there, Bro, what's going on. I'm like,
I just started looking at the houses in the Tampa
area everything. I'm just doing the job, doing the job
as mind. He said, not gonna bring you in because
the guy who fired you in Dallas is talking negatively.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh yeah right, I'm pissed. Man.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
I'm in my car getting my forward explored at the time.
I'm going down to the turnpike in Dallas and I'm
about to hurt this dude.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I swear to God, I'm about to hurt this dude.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
I'm about to somebody going to jail to night, somebody
going I'm dead serious. Bro, this is the maddest I've
been in my life.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Man.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I'm serious, man, because he's now not only did this
man fire me, you know, you know, without cause or whatever, unfairly,
but now you're messing with my future. And I didn't
do anything to my family. And this is my family.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Man. I'm looking at my child. I want to feed
my kids. Man. I'm on that turnpike. Man, I'm mad.
I'm like, I'm.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Going to go to jail tonight because I'm going to
hurt this man.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I swear to God.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I don't know what it was, but I was so
hot and it had to be like ninety five degrees
at night in Dallas. You know how to get some
I was so hot the air condition is blowing, man,
and nothing would cool me down. So I let my
window down. When I let the window down, I swear
to God, bro, and I think I get emotion even
thinking about this. I swear to God.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Bruh.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I heard a voice that said, what you're doing. He said,
you're about to mess it up. You're about to whoo.
He said, You're about to mess it up. And as
mad as I was, BRO, just that quickly, man, I
calmed down to the comments that have been in my life. Man,
I got off the turnpike, turned back around, went home.
I prayed, and I said, God, whatever you want me
(25:24):
to do is let me know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Three weeks later, Man ESPN called me. Had I gotten
a job in Tampa, I would not have been available
for ESPN. I didn't really want the job in Tampa.
I needed a job in tak I wouldn't have been
available for ESPN. Had I gone down there that night
and carried that through you wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
I would not be sitting with you right now. My
career would have been over.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
So imagine had I get so the fact that that
man caused me.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
To not get that job in Tampa was a blessing.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
It was a blessing because had he not said anything,
I would have accepted that job in Tampa. I would
have been down there doing the job at the last
PlayStation and in a market that I really didn't want
to be in at that time or whatever, doing something
I probably didn't want to do, and I would not
have been available to go to ESPN. It wasn't my time.
So that No, that loss turned out to be the
(26:24):
biggest thing in my life in my career, and without that,
I know I wouldn't be saying I wouldn't be in
the position I am right now because those four letters.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I met you at ESPN.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
You know what I mean, the things that that platform
those nine years, and I could talk about what I
went through, the ups and downs there, but I know
because of that platform, man, it elevated me to a
point to be in the.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Position that I am. Put you on a national state,
It put me on every day.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Stay every day, and I got I became a name,
I became a name in a sports community that I
still have because of that. I had my job at
Fox because of ESPN. I married my life as because
of ESPN. Everything that I have was because of that network,
because of that opportunity, And that opportunity wasn't going to
be there had I messed it up, or had that
(27:09):
man not been a blessing for me when I thought he.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Was a burden.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
So you were in the car on your way to
get the answer to why I was. I was gonna
find out why. You were gonna find out the why
something called to you. You went home, you prayed on it, yep,
and you prayed for the what now I pray for
the What now?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
I said, what do you want me to do? Just wait?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
He said, wait, be patient, And three weeks later your
life changed. Your family's like, man, my life.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
And what's crazy is three weeks later, two weeks later,
I got a call from Houston, right saying, we want
you to fly in for this job, opportunity whatever. I
go down there a week later to audition in Houston.
I'm all on the set an audition, do the good audition,
get to the airport. When I'm in the airport. While
I'm in the airport, my agent caused me. He says, oh,
(28:00):
you got the job? Like what Houston already?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Like?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
No, it's not Houston, she said, ESPN wants you. I
was up for a role with this show called Cold
Pizza at the time in New York. I remember that
I had auditioned at ESPN before whatever. Right, didn't hear
anything from it. As a matter of fact, I heard
from ESPN they said I didn't get the job. Guy
named Daryknoko was a good friend of mine, love him
to death. He got the job over me, right, and
I guess I.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Finished the second or whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And so they said we want to fly you in
to you know, look at co for cold pizza and
all that type of stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Right cool.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I was thinking about that while I'm in Houston once again.
Get the job of the air get the phone call
the airport from my agent. My agent says, Mike, you
got the job.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
I'm like what she said. No, she said, ESPN wants
to fly you in. She wants ESPN wants to hire you.
Might what.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
So I went from almost getting a job in Tampa
not getting a job in Tampa, Houston opportunity comes along,
thinking that's Houston. All these doors started opening up. Oh
also Fox Sports, Fox Sports Southwest, a regional wanted to
hire me. So all these doors opened up because that
door closed in Tampa, because the door closed basically in
(29:03):
Dallas a year because I would have been in content
in Dallas with that guy, and the guy that he
hired after me lasted was down there for seventeen years
before the other guy retired.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
He's just now the main guy.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
But I'm telling you, man, sometimes the biggest losses in
your life trying out to be the biggest gains.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
And to that point, relationship wise, I think I was
in six year in the league, going into my sixth year,
and I had really loved this girl I had met
in college. We were on again, off again. She stepped out,
(29:43):
you know, I was off playing. She was living her life.
You mean stepped out? What you mean like, no, no,
she was. We weren't together, okay, okay, okay. She went
had a baby and not yours. No no, no, no no,
not mine, and you know, didn't work out with her
baby's father at the time and all of that, and
(30:04):
so we started connecting again and she was really depressed
and all of that. I'm like, look, man, it's all good.
We just you know, this off season, we'll come hang out.
I said, pick anywhere you want to go, just so
we can get away and whatever. And she said, I've
never been to Jamaica. So we go to Jamaica, had
a wonderful time. Right, we come back home and I
was in I was like, look, whatever it is you
(30:25):
want to do, I'm down, all right. She was like,
all right, I just need some time, take some time,
and said all right. Boom. And so about a month
and a half, two months later, she calls me and
was like, hey, I need to tell you something.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I said, Okay, what's up?
Speaker 3 (30:44):
She was like, I'm getting back with my son's father
and we're gonna get married.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
And I said okay. I said, look, I I'm here.
We were friends before we were anything. Whatever you need,
let me know, I wish you the best. Two months later,
I'm in La at the BT Awards and I'm staying
(31:17):
at the mandri on and I'm looking out off the
balcony and they're setting up for a big party down there.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
So I go down. I'm like, what's going on, man,
what's popping?
Speaker 3 (31:27):
And they're like, Beyonce is having an album release party right.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
This was June twenty twenty three, twenty two thousand two, Yeah,
two thousand and three, twenty three, And so I'm like,
all right, cool, boom, we're there. I'm at the party.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
We down there, everybody there, boom boom, boom boom, And
this young lady is over where I'm here I am.
And we started talking and hitting it off, and twenty
one years later, we've been married for eighteen of them.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Had you been with the other girl in that situation,
had she not taken herself out of the equation and
gotten back at the time, been available, Because I know
you're one woman.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I'm good man, I just wonder. I just want to
be in love. I just want to love on somebody,
had him love on me back.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah, that's it. I don't have enough time and energy
for all of that.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
But if I'm stuck on the well, why she don't
want me? Or why she going back with him? Obviously,
and they're still together, they're still married, they have more kids,
so that was.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Perfect for her.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
But for me, instead of the why, I'm like, Okay, well,
well now, and I end up meeting the love of
my life, my wife, the mother of my two beautiful sons,
and we've been together for twenty one years and it
started that night. Had I been in a relationship, I
wouldn't have been open and to meeting the person I
(33:03):
was supposed to be with.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Bro and you and you guys really truly love each other.
I mean you're my favorite couple in the world. I mean,
like you're the epitome of what a family is and
should be.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I'm trying game. I mean I did twenty two.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I mean that was three different ones, you know what
I mean, you got dis whatever. I don't have that
happily ever yet, but maybe one day, man. So number one,
Thank you for sharing. Thank you all right, and you
got emotional, but that's what it's supposed to be. It's
supposed to be emotional. Emotions have to go some much
(33:42):
shame and doing that, bro.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
And you know, one of the biggest takeaways from from
what you said to me was.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Timing. Mm hmm. Right.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Things happen in our lives. We don't understand the time
of what right. We talked about the wise and the
what now is in the right. Most people don't have
the self control that you showed the car on the
(34:14):
turnpipe going to do something this way out of your
character because you felt that you were put in that position.
And just hearing that and hearing you take a moment
turn the car around resonates Because.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
My father used to say this.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
My father worked in the prison system for twenty six years,
some of the toughest prisons in the world.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
He said, ninety seconds. What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
He said, I'm in a building with men who changed
their whole lives in ninety seconds. A ninety second decision
can ruin your life or it can enhance your life.
And just listening to that story, I'm like, Wow, that's
(35:10):
a ninety second moment.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, well, I'm glad that God intervened. And once again
it's divine intervention there, man, because once again you're right.
Making the wrong decision could have totally gone the opposite
direction for me.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Man.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
And I appreciate you sharing what you share with me
because I've heard the story about you.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Being at the Mondreon Mandren and the Beyonce.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
I didn't know the prior to that, and you've helped
me just listening to you talking about dealing with lost.
Now you know what I mean, because, like I said,
everything that I'm going through as far as like professionally
trying to figure.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
Out Man, I've been thinking what now?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
But now I know because of what I've lost, because
of what I lost isn't because.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I'm being punished.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
It means that what now is going to happen for
me and what I'm about to gain. And I pray
that professionally I gain my reniese. You know what I mean,
your wife, I pray that because of what I lost
and not dwelling on it, because I really haven't dwelled
on it. I've been you know, God taking care of
me whatever, and I've been able to take care of
(36:18):
myself and still hustle whatever, But now I know what's
coming next is the equivalent professionally to your renaese. Yeah,
and that's the happily ever after that I'm looking for professionally,
And that's all you can ask That's all you can
ask for. Man, Look, we don't know the grand design
of each and of each other's lives, or not even
our own lives.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
But what we can do is is take time, breathe, share. Yeah,
be open about loss, be open about dealing with loss. Right,
(36:56):
whether it's someone in your life that you know that
you can talk talk to, there are plenty of outlets
out there for you to find help, to find someone
to help you deal with it, because look, it's one
thing we all know as humans.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Pain is pain.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Whether you lose a job, a loved one, a relationship,
it all hurts, right, and my pain isn't any different
than your pain, right, There are different degrees with different people,
but just know, right, you're not alone, not alone. You're
not alone. I'm telling you you're not alone, even if
(37:37):
you feel alone. And so I'm excited that we got
a chance to do this episode just you and I
and talk about this because when we set out on
this journey. It was always important for us to be
open and candid about the things that we've gone through
(37:58):
and hopes that it would help. Yep, any anybody watching
or listening. And you know the name of the podcast
is done There, Been that, yep. And we just shared
serious moments of us done there and Ben that.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, genuine, authentic, real transparent.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
And this is the reason why I wanted to do
it and do it with you, because I knew you'd
be open about that and I'm happy that we can
and I want people out there to understand that once again,
you're not alone.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
You got to find your tribe.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
You got to find your safe space of somebody that
you can talk to. And if you feel like you
can't talk to somebody, man, there's a higher spirit. If
you're spiritual, you cannot find that person, but express it
in some kind of way in a positive manner.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
That's one thing that we also learned.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
A positive outlet for you to express yourself and get
it out, whether it's pain, whether it's anger, whether it's sadness,
whatever you feel.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
You know, I heard.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Ludacris say take an x X and let that shit go.
You gotta let that shit. You got to let it go.
So we're happy that you joined us for this. We
will continue to have these type of conversations throughout each
and every week. On the Done there have been that podcast. Man,
it's just an exceptional thing. I love you, my brother,
my God. I love you too, brother, and I'm always
(39:17):
here for you, and I appreciate you always being there
for us, and we appreciate you being there for us
as well. On the Done there have been that podcast.
Make sure you subscribe to each and every one of
our episodes that come out, get the notifications so when
it comes out, so they don't miss one episode of
this podcast that we're putting on for you till next week.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
See Mike Keil, I'm from Salam. We'll see you next week.
Hosts And Creators
Mike Hill
Eunice Elliott
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The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.