All About Dan • EP 710

Joy and Rob welcome Paul Johansson who meticulously dissected what it was like directing this episode.

Rob opens up about shifting gears to view OTH from a viewer's perspective, how the show helped guide him to therapy and Paul shares an interesting story involving an ex-girlfriend and some fans.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
First of all, you don't know me.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
We all about that high school drama Girl Drama Girl,
all about them.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
High school queens. We'll take you for a ride. And
our comic girl cheering for the right Teams. Drama Queens
jlis go up girl Fashion, which your tough girl? You
could sit with us? Girl Drama Queen Drama, Queens Drama,
Queens Drama Drama, Queens Drama Queens Okay, Season seven, Episode ten,
You are a Runner and I Am my father's son.

(00:29):
Air date November sixteenth, two thousand and nine.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hey, Drama Queens, you have me and mister Robert Buckley
and mister Paul Joe Hanson, who directed this episode.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Say hello to your fans, Paul.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Hello to my fans, and not hello to the other people.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
Well played. Well, let's just start, let's set the tone
at Petty and just run with it.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
I'm feeling a little Dan Scottish, Paul.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Will you read the synopsis for.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Nathan reaches the breaking point with Clay, causing a rift
between Haley and Quinn. Quinn is played by right everyone
remember that? And uh, let's see Brook comes clean with
Julian about her worries regarding his growing connection to Alex.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
You're always just ornery on purpose always meanwhile skills.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
I wonder how I got that name. Pursues a new
career in Los Angeles, California, on the West Coast, and
Millicent's drug problems worsened.

Speaker 4 (01:29):
We saw that coming, boy, oh boy, did we ever?
Directed by the incomparable Paul Johansson Paul Elizabeth Johansson Old
p e J.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Paul Been.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
Oh no, I'm so glad you could be here for
this episode, Paul, because especially after watching it, it's just
a perfect one. Because this was also really the first
time you and I ever interacted.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
This is the first time as.

Speaker 4 (01:59):
Character and also pretty much is human being.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
I wanted to be your friend, but you really were
not interested. So it's to work with.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
You, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
It was.

Speaker 4 (02:08):
I was capped off at friends who were a little
older than me, and so I just you got waitlisted,
but you made it eventually we got there. You also
drowned me on our first day of work, so like,
don't make it sound like you came in being charming
and sweet. Okay, do you remember that scene? Do you
remember shooting it?

Speaker 3 (02:25):
I remember everything about that scene and remember how they
were more concerned about the cameras than they were about
you and I getting swept away into the What happened, Well,
it was just it wasn't calm. It was a bit wavy,
and but you know, but look, these the crew is fantastic.
They were awesome. They were really cool. But the water
was always nice, right, water was wasn't that? It was

(02:48):
pretty good. It was actually fun day to get on
the waves and kind of like blow as much time
there as you could before you had to go back
in the studio.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
And it was funny because I remember you saying you
had your hand. Your wrist was really bothering you at
the time, and you said, hey, why my wrist has
really bothered me? And I I said, oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah,
no worries. I'll you know, be off it, be ginger
with it. And then I realized the only thing I
had to hold on to was your wrist. So it
was this game of me balancing getting drowned and also

(03:19):
being so delicate with one of your raisks.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
So wasn't I'm here.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
Right, yes, but I was grabbing your it right, yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, I just I was worried about choking. You were
worried about hurting you too.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Those seemed like hard scenes to shoot. When you're pretending
to drown someone in the ocean. It's not even a
controlled environment, like if you're on a sound stage with
it with a tub or something like that seems really difficult.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Except the thing is with him was I didn't he
it would look bad. I think if you just kind
of made himself fall into the water. So I do
remember being a little bit kind of like, you know,
I'm you know, I'm a bit playful, But I remember
kind of like sweeping his feet one time until he splashed.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Rob did that piss you off?

Speaker 4 (04:04):
I didn't remember that. I didn't remember that I swept
your feet one time. I think it's a great choice.
I wonder how I felt. It's about it because I
was curious about Paul coming into this, like because like
I said, we hadn't really had any off camera time together.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Are you scared?

Speaker 4 (04:23):
I would say it was a mix of, uh, there was.
There was probably an elephant, excuse me, an elephant, an
element of intimidation because you you had been there a while,
and you're also you you know, you're lovable, but you're dickish,
and so I didn't know how to read that at first,
like I didn't know if it was. Of course, back
then I was taking everything personally, so it was does

(04:45):
he not like me? Is this just the way he riffs?
So it wasn't until the second time you directed an
episode that I really had a moment where I realized, Oh,
he's as a director. You gave me a really good
note and I and I just remember thinking, oh, like

(05:07):
he's he has a lot to say and to teach me. Okay,
this guy can this guy can be a teacher, like
this is okay. It was great, It was really helpful.
But yeah, early early days, I was very much like,
don't know, don't know.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
I do want to comment on that idea because I
think Joyce brought it up, and I think some of
the other actors have too. And that's the on set
way for me not to get snidly whiplash bad guy
mode head where I'm just being bad in the character.
Is to make it fun for me to be bad.
And I know you understand that because you do it
too when you're in the work and you have to

(05:44):
do things that are outside of your I'm Canadian, so
I apologize for everything all the time.

Speaker 4 (05:51):
M hm.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
So in order to get away from that as an actor,
because it's really not serving me as an actor to
constantly apologize when I'm playing a character that doesn't even
know what the word apology means. It's I try to
make it playful for me so that when you say that,
I don't know if you said dickish or whatever it was,
that is true, But that's a way of tapping into
a way my brain for me to make the character

(06:14):
kind of more have a twinkle in my eye as
I do the stuff like them doing. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, every character has to be approached differently,
and when you play a character like that for so
many years, on and on and on. Yeah, there's there's
got to be ways to sort of figure out how
do I how do I stay in this zone but
also not just fall into misery about like living in
the life of the brain of this character.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah, but it's also for you guys too on the
set and for the crew the other people that have
to be around like a Dan Scott kind of character,
to when you're walking around and you're kind of being
a little bit playful in between scenes, so that because
that energy, as I said, in many other podcasts, especially
with you Joy. I think I've said before is it's

(07:02):
it's kind of can be misconstrued as me now I
am kind of super I love to test boundaries sometimes.
I like to see I don't want to know who
they are. I do enjoy that process. But the truth is,
and this is gonna I'm going to get Robert's gonna
like laugh and his his you know, pink fur or

(07:24):
yellow fur coats about it, like a ripped in pieces
because he's not gonna believe this. I'm actually super shy,
I really am. And so all of that is like
a Jim Carrey kind of way of making me not
have to be me in order to play able to
play the part. If it makes.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Anything, Yeah, I think that's intrinsic to a lot of
artists and the idea of pushing boundaries and you know,
I mean, I think so many artists are like that.
We try and figure out what the boundaries are so
that we know how to play, we know how far
we can go.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah. Yeah, it's you're always testing the fence, you know.
Do you remember Jurassic Park that you metaphor making and
they say what's wrong with the fence and they say, Oh,
the veloci raptors are constantly testing the fence, looking for
a weakness. It's like, yeah, always always testing. And by
the way, when I say dittish, I don't mean mean
you just like you freely give shit. And I was
a new kid on, you know, in school, and so

(08:16):
I was just and you know, back, I was just
constantly like, what's the read? Does this person like me?
Not like me? Whoa what did he do?

Speaker 3 (08:23):
You know?

Speaker 4 (08:23):
And so it was like I just took me a
while to figure you. It took me longer to figure
you out. And also we only had work where we
were antagonists, Like we only had we never like we're
like joy and I like we had loving scenes which
also give us more time to talk and to be warm.
It was like I saw you for a scene you
drowned me. I saw you for a scene I told
you to off. It was like they gave us no

(08:46):
opportunities for like sweet bonding.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, that was a surprise on the beach when you
looked up and you're like sorry, you just keep moving.
I was like, I'm not going to acknowledge you.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Do you guys ever read what the fans were saying
about that move on the beach.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
No, no, never read all this up there writing.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
No, it built sympathy for you. It built huge like
it built a really good kind of like people were
seeing a side where because you're usually like totally in
charge and then somebody's coming in and going, yeah, how's
water taste? You know, and boom boom, you know. So
it's kind of sort of building people to understand a
little more sympathetic towards your character, I thought.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
But here my question is did this I mean, I
guess we'll bounce around a little bit. But since we're
talking about this and you know, Clay has gotten fired
from being Nathan's agent, he's also been fired now in
front of Nathan and Haley and his other bosses from
his agency, I'm not sure I understood the purpose of

(09:50):
this moment in the story of Dan drowning Clay or
Foe drowning Clay and being like your new life starts today,
And I mean, I get that's stick right now. But
Clay at the end then goes and gives a speech
to Nathan and he's apologizing, and I'm not wouldn't he
have done that anyway? Like, did it really accomplish anything
different for Clay being drowned.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
I hadn't. I had the opposite experience of you. It
made complete sense to me.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Okay, tell me, well, Dan is still.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
Looking out for his son, even though he wants nothing
to do with him. He used a talk show to
get rid of the renee problem. He found out Clay misstepped,
and he checked Clay real hard. And what was interesting
about that scene was there was scary Dan. But then
as he's as Clay's like you're alone, I did walking away,

(10:39):
Dan hits him with some serious life coaching. Yeah, and
he and he tells him, like, you want to be
an agent, go be an agent. So it's it wasn't malice.
It was a wake up call. It was done in
a very Dan Scott way.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, but did it work? Like was Clay all? Was
Clay mopey enough that he was going to quit?

Speaker 4 (10:57):
And like, I don't know about that because his makes
a point of saying, I made a promise to my
dead wife that I'm never going to quit. But you
can't argue that. Like it shook him up, It got
his attention, and it it certainly didn't take away any
fire under his butt, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
So to me, while you know it was wildly aggressive
and unexpected, like it's it kind of fit perfectly for
me in Dan Scott's trajectory.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Paul, how did you direct something like that when you
have to be in it? How do you know that
you're getting the material that you want and you're getting
the shots that you want.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
You have to buy into it. You have to you
have to buy into what the writers are leading you
to because if you have any reservations about shooting it
in trying, I'm going to try to you know, d
you know, I don't know what it is is take
take the fangs out of this scene and just make
it kind of work for me in a way. A
lot of times I think you're in this type of

(11:58):
tell you have to know who your audience is, right
in this type of scenario, you I think you have
to just fully buy into what they're attempting to do
and give the bublocity to it that exists. And I
really didn't feel like I would be doing a good
job with this scene if I was like to, you know,
to really play you know, underplay it or maybe not
such a big thing. But I just went for it

(12:19):
with Augusta, thinking, you know what, the audience is gonna
love this. You know, they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna
they a lot of things that we do in that
show that you have to believe they're gonna buy, and
they have to buy that this is and I do
what I always do, which is as as he very
appropriately pointed out, the justification from Dan's side, from a
racion actor, was all about my son. It was all

(12:42):
about what's going to be good for him in the
long run, and getting this guy, you know, on board
in the right way is going to be good for longle.
Directing wise, I will say this, there's a lot of
putting together. Uh God, whenever we shoot with water or animals,
it's going to be logistically a nightmare and you're going
to be there all day. So I just wanted to

(13:04):
make it simple. But I wanted to make it, you know,
look like I put in you know, the right amount
of understanding. You know, I didn't want to do too
many underwater things or crazy shots. Just get the shots
and let's get onto the next scene. Don't overdo it.
It didn't seem the big thing other than I know
that the camera has be waterproofs, so I wanted to
be at the beach for a shot before that so

(13:26):
that they could have time to set up the second
camera to go to the water, so we weren't just
waiting around. So I did a scene before I did
that scene so they'd be able to set up the
underwater rig so when we finished, we could go right
to it and not have to wait around.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
You always were very efficient with your time management as
a director. That is true.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
You popped on your producer hat and got real efficient
with your setups.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
I put the druma Queen's audience to sleep those more
about the personality it.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
Killed with Joy and I. Our audience may have tuned out,
but Joy and I were hanging on everywhere.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
They're a sophisticated audience we have. This is what so
great about this audience. They're just you know, they're curious,
and you know, my favorite people are curious people. You know.
I love that about that they want to know everything.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
While we're talking about Dan, because I have a question
about this. So in this episode, Rachel goes with Dan
back to tree Hill and she's standing in the high
school hallway. She asks him Dan to meet her there
and says, we should shoot an episode here in the
hallway where you killed your brother. And Dan's response is

(14:45):
so wide eyed, and Rachel's being so obviously entitled and
just has this general disdain for humanity that feels so palpable.
Can you give us an insight into it? Seems so anti?
I mean, Dan's so smart, he's so calculated. How does
he not see that she's being so manipulative? Or does

(15:07):
he see it and he's playing her too? Like, why
between just the two of you, would you have had
this sort of doe eide response of like, oh yeah,
oh gosh, that might be really I don't know what
the line was that you said, but your whole demeanor
was very sincere and sort of doe eyed, and Rachel
was being so obviously villainous.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
It was Rachel pitches the idea, and you take a beat, Paul,
and then you say a little insensitive, isn't it? And
without skipping a beat, she says, not as insensitive as
murdering your brother.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Well, I mean, first off, I do sometimes like to
give credit for our A lot of our writing team
really sometimes would give us some very interesting things to
do with and I thought that was a pretty interesting choice.
I always played Dan. The one secret I always played
with Dan was he's in the know. Dan is never
not in the note. So the fact that I'm aware

(16:02):
of what she's doing exploiting a terrible, terrible school shooting
and a huge, huge issue that I had with even
shooting the scene in the first place, and having to
kind of roll over in my head as a as
a human being to play the part that would do that,
and then seeing well, look, you know, you if you
point out ugly things to the world, then people can
see that there's there's broken people in the world that

(16:24):
do terrible things. And as opposed to you know, being
unaware or we have to be sophisticated in our approach
to to horrific in humanities that our planet and pretending
them away in television does nobody at a good job,
a good service. So I was okay with with with
my character pulling that off. I didn't, you know, I
didn't anticipate it being such a you know, a profound

(16:46):
thing and actually saving the show from, you know, from
being canceled.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
It's from what I understand, Oh the oh, the shootings. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
Yeah, But so now when we're talking about exploiting that
as a person. My first so that was, ooh, this
is gonna be touchy. How am I going to do this?
And then I thought about it from the character's point
of view, and he you know, I don't think Dan
has the same motivation as her. In the end, in

(17:15):
a weird way, they're both using each other. She's using me, money, fame, glory.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
So Dan knows. Dan's fully aware and so but there's
an agreement.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
I almost feel like the Rachel Dan marriage, they sat
down and negotiated, they didn't fall in up.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Oh I love that.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
I always felt that, you know, Yeah, part of the
negotiation wasn't that I was exploit my brother's killing situation
and you know that this is not in the contract
kind of a woman. I feel like that's the way
that I had dealt with in my head. Does that
make sense?

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (17:44):
And can I say as a viewer, I liked it
because I this season has done a good job of
blurring the line on whether Dan has changed or he's
still the same guy with a great hustle. And I
liked this line because it was a moment to me
where I was I couldn't figure out whether I was
getting a peak behind the curtain at who he is becoming,

(18:06):
or if it's just it's just a great long con hustle.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
I think we have to play that that line, that balanced,
stay on that line if I ever commit to either
side on that line. Which was part of my conversation
with the creatives was that I can't truly show that
either I'm this is all a big act, or that
I've actually converted. I have to balance the line as
often as I can, as close as I can, to

(18:31):
not let me not even know which side of that
line I'm on, so that it creates a more compelling,
you know, dramatic twist for the series.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
It works, It really works. I mean, it's why he's
one of the great villains of television.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Well, that's what I loved about this rule. You know,
you guys have all these incredible interactions with each other,
and you're all the same age, and you're all you know,
you're having kids and falling in love and you're doing
this and all these things. And I get this character
that kind of gets all these incredibly nuanced things that
have to be you know, kind of winterwoven. So I
really that's why I was so grateful to be able

(19:06):
to play the part.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
You know, it's fun to watch. I mean, it's really
fun to sit and try and figure out what am
I watching? Like, what am I seeing? Is this a
person who is like you said, Rob, Has he changed
or has he This is a long game. This is
a long game hustle, And I'm really enjoying the interaction
between Dan and Rachel. That is that is the biggest

(19:28):
surprise of this whole season that I never knew I
needed in my life, but because when the show was airing,
I didn't. I wasn't watching it at the time. By
then I was in my own world and just going
to work and doing my job. So to come now
and watch it, Oh, it's so satisfying.

Speaker 5 (19:46):
And let's give her some credit, Daniel some credit, because yeah,
I like, really love actually working with people that roll
with my insanity. So when I'm as seen as Dan
and I can't always tell you where it's going, She's
always like one step with me.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
She's she's never not picking up on what I'm doing.
She's going, oh, that's what we're doing, then let's do it.
She's so game as an actress that it made it
super fun and super sort of fresh. Every scene was
so fresh because she she knows her stuff.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
She's she's fully always prepared.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
When you wake up and go to the set for
suing Reek through the lines, she's off book like that
the way that I like to work and ready to
roll man, and I just I love that about her,
and it made that playing that character in that season
so much more fun.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
You know, well, you guys, Shine, I mean, I take
notes obviously for this for every episode, and at least
half of the episodes there's just a random note that's like,
holy shit, Paul is so compelling, you know, Dan is quickly.
It's funny because when you know, we started doing conventions,
I had a little backstory. I've never or like, I

(21:00):
don't know the show. When I signed on, I quickly
binged I think five and six, but I've never seen
one through four. So when this podcast opportunity came around,
I've said I'm basically approaching this as a first time viewer,
because when the show ended, I was like, great, done,
never going back. So I am now watching this basically
as a first time viewer. And so when we were

(21:20):
doing conventions and I would see so many people loving
your character and all I knew was sort of the
big broad strokes. I think that's so interesting. And I
got to say, now that I'm actually watching it as
a viewer, I totally get it because even though you've
done some bad things, I'm like, but I'm interested. When
he's on the screen, my eyes go to him. I
want to know what he's up to. I'm on for

(21:41):
the ride.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, you kill it man, and Daniel does as well.
You two together are so much fun to watch well.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
I mean, I think Nathan and Haley have really one
of my favorite dynamics. And for me working with Joy,
I think that's what that's how we became friends was
because we just had such a good professional you know,
chemistry or characters. Was so interesting to watch Dan and
Ailey scenes and I haaling that alien Dan.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yeah, we did. We had a lot of fun. It
was it was easy, I mean talk about just rolling
with it like we I think we recognized that in
each other and that's always a fun thing to encounter
in an actor.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
Did you have Greek chemistry with Robert? Like did you
figure your character had the best chemistry with like you know.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
Oh, I mean I would say by virtue of our relationship,
I mean Sean Tell and I because we we we
went into it sort of in like we got thrown
into a foxhole together. We were the only two new
people and we had most of our stuff together, so
we bonded real quick, and then we just developed kind
of a nice shorthand and it made the work very easy,

(22:54):
very natural. I really enjoyed working with James.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah. I was going to say, like you were so
easy to watch on camera.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
It worked. And it's funny because James. I have a
couple friends in my life who, for some reason, when
I get around them, it's like catnip. I can't help,
but just the just want to make them laugh. And
I'm like hyper and James is one of the I
thinks because he's he's pretty quiet still, you know, just

(23:23):
it brings out like my inner kid, and I'm like,
let's let's laugh together.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
So you just want to poke him like hey, hey,
hey hey.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
I was always trying to make him laugh and do
the outrageous. So yeah, he's a great humor.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
He laughs really easily. He's so easy to be around. Yes,
one person that each of you and I intoer this
too would have loved more.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Scenes with Oh gosh, well Dan, I mean you and
I would we would have had way more fun. But
I mean it was so so few and far between
when we actually did get to interact together.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
What about you?

Speaker 4 (23:55):
I found myself. It's funny because we watched this episode,
I didn't remember it all that you and I had
a scene in the bar where I'm drinking and You're like,
this isn't what I meant by get your life together,
you know, and then you invite me to have a
drink with you, And so I didn't remember the scene
at all, and I thought this, I want to see
this scene. I want to see these two dudes sit
down and talk. They both got history, they have a

(24:16):
shaky relationship. They've only met once and it was during
a drowning. I want to see this scene. So I
would have loved I would have loved to have seen
more of Clay and Dan. Although I will say honorable
mention Victoria. Oh yeah, dude, she's an assassin. I would
love to watch the banter between Clay and Victoria.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
I was just going to say, if I had one
character on the show, I would have liked to had
more scenes with because it would have been deaf.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
They could have created such an amazing storyline for the
two of you for some reason to get into koohoots
together about something that would have been a ball to
watch Dan and Victoria have to try and one up
each other try, you know, negotiating something or I don't know, well,
speaking of negotiating and.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
Good segue, Joyce.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, I gotta say there's some real bad agent ing
happening in this episode. I don't know. I mean, I
get from Clay's perspective that he's like, you know, holding
out for the best. But Millie getting an agent and
the agent asking for five hundred thousand dollars for a
post campaign, like she's already done it, She's already worked

(25:23):
for free. I'm so confused.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
Listen, this is this is going to be an unpopular opinion.
Probably I can't stand this storyline. Yeah, please, Also don't
hear what I'm not saying. I love Lisa Goldstein, and
she did this role as well as you could have,
as well as anyone could have. She did great, But
this is just such a heavy handed after school special

(25:48):
cautionary tale where where they've even changed. It was sort
of like, like I said, like they etcha sketched her
character and we're like, give us a cliche model. True,
Like she's done one thing for Brooke. She has an
agent asking for half a million dollars. She's already doing
cocaine to keep up with it. It's been like two

(26:09):
weeks and she has completely hit rock bottom. Like, what
the what? What the hell is that? It was so dumb? Also,
come on, you don't leave coke out in the open
on the mirror. You put it away, You say it
because that's precious to you, you know, And like you
don't leave the dollar bill rolled up on the ground
so much. And I was curious about how you felt

(26:30):
about directing this, Dan, because I know it was all
in the script.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
The same as the water. You you have to you
have to buy into it, and you have to put
it all on display, and you try to make it
as real as you can and leave the judgment to
the audience. You have to. You can't. You can't re
envision things that you may not be fully on board with,
and and then try to recreate the show for the

(26:57):
for the creators. I think if I there's a feature film,
we sit down, we talk it through, we work it
out we cut what doesn't isn't essential, and we say,
can we play this instead of show this? Is there
a way we can play this as an artist, as
an actor? Can the actress play this instead of indicate
with all these little things around her? Can she be

(27:19):
demanded as an actress to go inside and show us
the trimoal she's going through, the depth of the pain,
the frustration with these choices. Is she doing the right
thing all that through her behavior without it being as
you said, you know, these these these these are cliche troubles.
But I can't do that as a hired gun on
a show that has asked me to facilitate their ideas.
It's not a battle I want to take on, and

(27:40):
it's not appropriate for me to do that. I took
the job. So what I do is I go, Okay,
let's put everything they've asked for in here. Let's do
our very very best. Let's give them plenty of coverage
so that they can cut around what isn't working, and
let's just tell, you know, talk to your actors and say,
do me one favor, Do not lie, Just tell the truth.
If you don't touch it, if that if you don't

(28:02):
know how to hold a rolled up you know, one
hundred dollars bill to do your blow. Don't touch it.
Just do your scene as truthfully knownice as you can,
and we'll make it look great for you. We're going
to protect you. I don't want anybody faking it. So
that's the only way you can get through a scene
like that. Does it make sense.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
That's one of my favorite things about you as a director,
because I have we worked with so many on the show,
and I've worked with directors who feel awkward about the
material and they lean into they lean more into their
shots and more they just kind of try and almost
stay away from the material, like pretend like it's not there,

(28:36):
and they focus more on the lighting and the shots,
and it's like, well, just get through the scene and
then we'll move on. And you always lean into it,
which seems so counterintuitive, but actually by pushing in and
making it much more human and just about the human
interaction that's happening between the people, then the sets don't matter,
the lighting doesn't matter, the costumes do't matter. Nothing else

(28:58):
matters except the emotions that that the two people in
the scene, or however many are feeling. And I will
buy almost anything in that scenario, and I learned that
from you. It's really such a valuable lesson as an artist,
and that's what we see here in this scene.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
I just want to thank you for being such giving
me such a beautiful compliment. It means everything.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Absolutely, it's so true, and that's what we see in
this scene. A Lee did such a beautiful job. I
was really he was so still, he was so un
I mean, he was disturbed, not flustered. You know, we're
used to seeing mouth be I think flustered is a

(29:38):
word I think of with him a lot. And to
see him grounded in his place as a human and
a friend and a fellow traveler in life in a
really grounded way, and just watching this unfold with someone
that he really loves, and he wasn't trying to fix it.
He wasn't trying to solve it. He was just present.
I don't know what kind of conversations you and he

(30:00):
had on set, but that was beautiful work from him.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
Well, he's holding callfield to me in the series anyway,
because in that you know, the alter ego, somebody is
an observer. Maybe he's journaling this whole thing in his head.
Is the way that I always look at him. That
makes sense.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
I love that he's journaling and the whole show is
in his head.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
I always thought of him like that.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah, wow, exploded my brain.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
We were the we were lost before Lost was lost. Guys,
let me ask a quick question, Joy, because I I'm

(30:51):
aware that I'm coming at this with a limited scope
of the characters and their histories, but because you've spent
more time with mill when you are watching this particular
story arc, do you see any of Milly in it?

Speaker 1 (31:07):
I was looking for her and I didn't. And that's
it goes back to what you were saying about the
edge just sketch it. They just they used a character,
they needed a storyline, and hers fit the best. At
you know, somebody in the in the writer's room probably
said what about Millie and it was like, yeah, sure,

(31:28):
that works great. And because of the time constraints and
all the other storylines that were happening in the way
that those had to intersect, I think they just sped
it all up. I just wish that when they first
introduced Milly it's hins Hindsight's twenty twenty. I wish they
had known when they brought Milly on the show that
this is where they were going, so that something could
have been set up a little earlier.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
Yeah, but you know, it.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Is what it is.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Yeah, planned a couple of seeds, Paul. One thing I
noticed that I wanted to ask you about was there
is a scene when Millie is an Alex his hotel room,
rifling through her closet, And what I found really interesting
was it looked like her makeup was done the same
way that Alex's was when she kind of arrived in

(32:15):
tree Hill, like it was very dark above the eye.
Her hairstyle kind of reminded me of Alex's. And I
was curious if there was was there a note anywhere
in there of sort of because also in that same scene,
I think Alex is wearing like a cute plaid outfit.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
It's not I switched roles.

Speaker 4 (32:33):
That's what I was wondering, And so I kind of questioned,
are we doing a subtle freaky Friday here?

Speaker 1 (32:38):
Is that?

Speaker 4 (32:38):
What's happening?

Speaker 3 (32:39):
Was it single white female? What is the one where
the girl takes up of her roommates agent?

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Oh, yeah, that is what it was.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
But was that intentional?

Speaker 3 (32:46):
I'll be honest with you, I actually don't remember. This
was how many years ago?

Speaker 4 (32:50):
Was this six? Paul? It's only been six I.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Should know, And I really I've failed the podcast and
I think I should be booted since I can't actually
remember that. I do remember.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
I'm sure you did in the production meetings and stuff.
That seems like something that would have come up.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
But I know that that Lisa was such a gamer
that she would have gone for it. I mean, I
was very proud of her. And I think that you
know she you know where she came from, right, you
know how she was, what her job was before working
on our show. Do you guys know?

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Tell the fans for people who don't I don't.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
You don't, I don't.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
I think she was snow white in disney World.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
And Jasmine and Bell. She was a Disney World girl.

Speaker 4 (33:29):
We got to have her on because I want to
I need to know a lot about that.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
I know. I want to talk to Lisa.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
So perfect, Joey, you could have done that. You could
still do that.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
I could still do that. This is my plan. I'm
just going to retire and go to Disney World and
be like, guys, just put me to princess dress. Let
me hug little kids. That's all I want to do.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
Pollice, Yeah, No, I'm very I was very very thrilled
with her work ethic and her willingness and and you know,
you guys know, it's like it's there's a lot of
I try to make it safe, and there's a lot
of ask to dig deeper and stuff like that, and
she was so game. So although I don't remember the
makeup question, which I think is really interesting, and there's
something in my head that there was something about that,

(34:10):
but I just can't be one hundred percent certain, but
I was really proud of her work.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
I think there was a lot intentional about the makeup
because I noticed under the darkness under her eyes that
was happening. So whether that was something that y'all talked
about in the production meeting or just something.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
That it was something about that that, yes, I just
don't remember match Alex's look.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, but she did great.

Speaker 4 (34:31):
It's something I noticed earlier. It was there's a scene
with Antoine and Alison Munn Lauren, Oh, miss Lauren. So
it's the scene where he wakes up and he rolls
over to check his phone and she says, Antoine, what
are you doing? And this was the first time I
had ever heard his character's actual name. I didn't know
they shared a namesake, and so I gasped, going, no

(34:55):
freaking way they accidentally let his real name slip through
the final cut, and then there's no dumb dwn. They
just probably named the character Antoine.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah, Antoine Taylor, not Antoine Tanner, but pretty.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
Close on Taylor.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Very I love that. Okay, cool, Yeah, I want.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
To see more of them. That was such a strange
kind of random. I mean, hopefully we'll get to see
more of that storyline develop. It seemed so bizarre that
it was interjected. It didn't go anywhere, like nothing. I mean,
I guess he was waiting for a phone call and
then he gets the and then he gets the information,
so it resolved. But I don't know. I'm curious as

(35:36):
to where that's going. I wasn't sure what's happening with that,
although it did make me really want to reinvigorate this
idea of stopping by friends places or where they are
just to ask a random question instead of texting people.
I love this. He's got his phone, he could easily
just call him, but he goes to the River Court

(35:58):
I was like, man, why do I do that? More
off to swing by my friend's houses and be like, hey,
I forgot to tell you blah blah blah blah, buck,
I'll see you later. So fun.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Oh. I assumed that Julian had called him and they
planned to meet at the river Court. Is that not
how it went down?

Speaker 1 (36:12):
They probably did, but like for what, they had three
lines and then Julian's like, I gotta go. This chick
is text on me, Like, I don't know, it seems
so strange.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
Let's do it, Poppins. Let's bring them back. People.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
One is so well liked. I remember even before One
Tree Hill two thousand and three, when the show started.
Before that, in the late nineties and early two thousands,
we played in the NBA Entertainment League together with James,
who I knew before the show, playing in that league.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Oh, that's right.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
We all knew each other from that. And you know,
I was on a team with Leo DiCaprio and Toby
maguire and all these actors Chris Kevin Connolly and James
Is on an opposing team, and Antholin's on another team,
and we're all like mortal enemies playing against each other
and then we got here and was just like, oh man,
we hated we hated you because we all played basketball together.

(37:03):
We for Scott to and I was much older. But
it was so great that we knew each other, you know,
from a basketball life, and it really helped a lot,
I think our in our time together working together because
we had that shorthand like you guys say.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
Was that E League? Because I've heard of that before?
This Entertainment League? Was it like Rayah where you have
to have someone vouch for you to get in or
do you have to be vetted before you can join it?

Speaker 1 (37:25):
That's brilliant.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Train Tree. No, it wasn't a mental test either. Let's see. No,
there's a there was you had. I think you had
to be of some entertainment value to be part of
the teams, but you could also be an agent or
a manager, or a lawyer or something. He had to
be in the entertainment industry. That's all it was.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Okay, speaking of agent, I want to go back to this.
What do you what's your perspective on this, Robert? Do
you think that Clay should have locked up the deal
or do you think that he did the right thing
by holding out and you know case, I think.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
Clay took his eye off the ball. I think he
had good intentions, but I think you gotta know that
there's another thing going on. And it's just it's such
a bad look to take your eye off the ball
at a time when you have the one person he's
asked you not to spend time with over and it's
so it was so painful. And then you know they've

(38:24):
been they've they kissed like all of a day ago,
and Charity comes in like, Babe, do you have that
bear for me? He's like, ah, not because you know,
like I said, I think he's a good agent and
that he was fighting for more because he believes in him.
But I think you got you gotta be keeping your
finger on the pulse of everything going on right there.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Did you ask him to not say babe? Do you
say just strike the babe part?

Speaker 4 (38:49):
I mean to me, it was a little it was
a little heavy hand. I think my note was, first
of all, it's pretty soon for pet names, uh, because
if it feel like it's sort of like the Millie thing,
it's like they've been they've been kissing, they've been more
than friends for sixteen hours. And we're already dropping babes
on each other.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Babe, so casual.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Yeah, you're the Jerry Maguire, right, that's what we were
fashioned after.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
Yeah, the wounded Jerry Maguire.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah. Nathan ran that scene though, man. I mean I
love seeing him just plow in and be It broke
my heart, like, after everything that he just went through
with Renee and all the anxiety about losing his contract
with the Bobcats and that he was all going to
go away, and we were on the edge of our

(39:37):
seats and we finally get this big win and Dan
saves the day with Renee, and all of it just
is all working out, and then the rug just gets
ripped out from underneath us because Clay is doing what
he should be doing. He's healing, he's moving on, He's
like good things are happening in his life. And Quinn
is getting, you know, this, this moment of joy and

(39:58):
peace in her life after you know how difficult her
marriage has been, and for everybody to finally be in
a great place and have this happen, it feels it's
so much like real life. I feel like that kind
of stuff happens in real life all the time.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
And what's great about it is it's a it's a
wonderful conflict because you can understand both parties point of view.
Like they didn't make it easy to choose who was right.
Nathan was completely in the right to be livid. Lay
was also in the right to be fighting for what
he believed Nathan's value was. So I like that they

(40:36):
muddied the water. It wasn't some egregious error, yeah you know,
but yeah, it was great seeing Nathan come down hard.
Which also it's funny because it's sort of even more
lends to Dan drowning Clay because can you imagine the
effort he went to to get Renee to build this
whole ruse. He gambles his ass off, it pays off,

(40:56):
he saves the day, and then this kid below his kids,
his son's deal. So in rate huwugh love actually really
makes sense for that scene.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yes, okay, I'm glad you said that. It all came
full circle to me now I get it.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
It's nice, isn't a joy?

Speaker 4 (41:17):
How did you guys feel about I don't mean as
a director, Dan. Oh well, there's a lot of in
this episode of Quinn telling Nathan and Haley that they
need to be more understanding towards Clay, and it creates
this really uncomfortable dynamic which eventually Nathan calls out with going,
do you like living in my house for free?

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (41:40):
You know, yeah, But it's also she has a point,
you know, but it's that awkward thing of like, I
don't know if this is the right time.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
No, she's pushing way too hard, and this is Yeah,
this is a great example of someone who feels out
of control and they are looking for control somewhere to
make themselves feel better about needing about like I can
solve something. At least I can do something. And we've
all done it. We have people in our lives who
do it. It's I think, a super human thing to do.

(42:12):
But yeah, don't I don't like it. I don't like it.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
It's you got and you got to be able to
read the room, you know.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, it's not my place.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Literally two hours after he found out he lost a job.
Is not the time to be going. Let's turn that
other cheek.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Also, like Haley's her sister, Nathan's been her brother in
law for however many years they've been married now, it's
five six years now, maybe ten I don't know, but
a sorry fans for all of you who are mad
at me for not knowing. I don't know how long
they've been married, but yeah, and Quinn just started making

(42:48):
out with this dude, Like why would she immediately take
his side and be like against her family? But that
is also it's a childish thing to do because you
know your family safe and what are they going to leave?
What are you going to leave?

Speaker 3 (42:59):
You?

Speaker 1 (43:00):
Like, it's your family. So she can sort of push
buttons and be on Clay's side because that's what she
needs to do. She needs to feel like she's defending someone,
a part of something that she belongs somewhere, because she's
kind of floating around in life right now. So I
think it checks with Quinn's personality, it checks out, it
makes sense with where she's at in her life. But

(43:22):
it was it was too heavy handed. I think I
would have deferred much more of like a hey, listen,
can we talk. These are my feelings. I think maybe
you're emotional and you're overlooking some things. But the fact
that we're in a bedroom. I had a visceral memory
being in that bedroom filming that scene with Chantelle Paul.
I feel like we did it like twelve times or something.
But do you remember that too? The master took us

(43:44):
so long?

Speaker 3 (43:46):
So long exactly? It's probably because I over blocked the
scene or let you guys just do whatever you want,
and then had to cover from nine different angles. I
don't remember.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
I think it was the energy was slow. I think
it was. Actually we may have been trying to do
what I just said, which was to slow down and
have more of a reasonable conversation. And you you knew
that it needed the energy and that it's okay for
characters to be flawed, like we just.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
Have to fight a lot before we shot too, Yes,
I remember correctly.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
Did you find much on that show before we shot?
I don't think we did.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
No, we didn't do a lot of rehearsal, but with
that scene.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
I remember one scene we rehearsed for a long time,
and then we changed it after we rehearsed it a
bunch of times, so we decided was working. Do you
know what scene it was?

Speaker 1 (44:34):
I thought it was that one.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
And Quinn and your other sister Lindseyndy by the pool. Oh,
it was a different episode, but we had to rehearse
that forever. Something wasn't clicking immediately. I think we were
going so far so fast that we wasn't like feeling organic.
We kept rehearsing, trying to figure it out. I don't

(44:55):
know if you remember that scene.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
I do.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
I remember that going back to just pre this this
bit when when Clay gets fired in front of your
whole family, in front of you know, Nathan and Haley.
It was funny, though, was the super German he does,
like the Charlie Brown walk out of the house and
he stops and he picks up a picture of all
of them and then puts it face down on the counter.

(45:21):
I thought, oh, that's so funny. That's such a listen.
I'm like you, Paul. My north star is like, let's
keep it honest. My north star is always how can
this be as subtle and grounded and honest as possible.
There is no way between the two of us that
we thought that's a killer idea. That was one hundred
percent in the script.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
A photo that's never been seen before on the countertop,
on a part of the countertop where you never would
put pictures anyway, Well, in my house, I wouldn't. No,
it was absurd.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
The last thing you'd be doing in that moment, is
spending any extra seconds in that house? Could you imagine
that awkward tension in the room and you stopped to
look at a photo. And then there's this other funny
beat though, where Nate and Nathan asks Haley, hey, like
he's he's questioning it. He goes, I don't know. Do
you think I made the right decision firing Clay? And

(46:13):
you take a beat and you go, I don't know.
You know, on one hand, he's Clay. You guys have
been friends for over a year, laughed toy Like, First
of all, it's so funny that they wanted to write
that into like tell the audience the timetable, but also
that is not enough time to make that counteragent a year.

(46:33):
You're new friends.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Your new friends.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Don't a network note to me, it does? It sounds
like they to put that in.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
Completely, you know what I mean, because it works if
you just if you drop the end of it, and
it's just I don't know. On one hand, he's Clay. Boom,
that's enough. Abben's is going to fill in the rest
on their own. You don't need to tell them it's
been three hundred and seventy two days of friendship. Yeah,
it's like, that's weird. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
I also thought it was really strange that he got
fired in front of everybody, Like he shows up at
the house and like, why couldn't they have just said it.
Feels like it would have been professional for them to say,
let's talk about this at the office, but they're just
gonna fire you right there on the spot. It seemed
like a pissing contest, which maybe maybe that's realistic. That's
what it is, I guess.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Well, and the weird thing too, is that Clay comes
in hot at them. First, Clay comes in and goes, Nathan,
this is this is BS. They're going to promise you
the moon and under deliver. He's still their employee at
that point. Yes, So it's odd because if you're a
team player, even though you lose the client, you want
the agency to keep it. So he's he's already on

(47:38):
some loaner stuff, you know when he comes in the room.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:43):
But yeah, so I think it was just sort of
a pissing match and I'm going, cool, pack your shoes.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah bye, And then they give the girl, the one,
the one random girl, his assistant or whoever who gets
one shot and she's like, sorry, Clay, we've never seen
her before and we never see her again.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
Or the male agent they're like like like Kevin and
I go shut up Kevin. Just a shot of him
going shaking his head. Also, I didn't realize it. I
think it's an easter egg. Do you realize Dan Scott
is the creator of Clay's agency's name. Now in that
scene of the drowning, you talk about fortitude. You're the

(48:23):
one who says the word fortitude.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Now I remember, and.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
I thought, oh my gosh, how funny. I never remembered
that the egg was the seed was planted by Dan.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
Wait a second, I thought Clay worked for Fortitude.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
No, that's the agency I create. Yeah, Clay, Clay starts
up Fortitude.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
You're about to create Fortitude?

Speaker 4 (48:44):
Yes, correct.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Oh that's good. That's juicy.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
So the drowning full circle on this episode of Drama
Queens is that the drowning names and the change did
happen and all the things we asked the beginning of
this episode were, you know, does it really to you?
Did it change yound? It started a whole new company
and in the direction and maybe a more commitment to
his client's position on that situation.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Dan Scott so complicated, such a villain and changing people's
lives at the same time.

Speaker 4 (49:15):
I think what we're saying on a larger scale everyone is,
if you are in some sort of rut in your life,
have a friend, give you a light drowning, you know,
shake things up a bit. It's gonna work out.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Broken Victoria, I just want to make sure we touch
on them because this storyline of broke not be you know,
finding out that she can't have children. Hearing that from
the doctor is so heartbreaking. Sophia did such a beautiful
job in this scene. She always shows up when there's
just especially with the real raw emotion. I mean, she
just it broke my heart.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
She really.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
That's heartbreaking for that character. And the fact that she
had Victoria come into town and Victoria says, you called me,
and Brooks says, no, I didn't. She goes well, a
midnight call with no message is a call, and Victoria
shows up, and we really we start to see the
beginnings of Brooke in Victoria as partners instead of two

(50:29):
people who just hate each other and have no idea
how to function with each other, and it was really
exciting to see that.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
Well.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
My favorite scene in the episode of Honance with you. Yes,
I thought they were both, you know, sublime.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
You're talking about the Brook and Julian scene when she
confesses to him she can't have kids.

Speaker 4 (50:46):
Yeah, dude, they were so good in that scene. I'm
glad that we didn't wrap the episode without talking about that.
That scene was so well done. It was so gentle
and honest and sweet. I thought they both crushed it.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
For the show. I don't think we had anybody have
that problem for once real until then. Yeah, you need
to get that.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
It felt so real that it seemed to me like
it probably got shot very quickly, like they both were
so dropped in. I don't I don't know. I don't
mean I wasn't there. I don't remember you or no
if you remember, but it just seems so simple and
clean and.

Speaker 4 (51:28):
On a lighter note, Victoria at Trick telling Grubs after
he correctly predicts her exact drink, I'm looking for a
lover and you just made the list was probably the
line of the episode for me.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
So great, so great. Victoria being toasty at closeover bros
And leaning on all the clothing racks as she's talking.
It was such a great example of acting drunk by
acting sober. And then she goes to the bar and
I love this barstool wrap up that we did too,
by the way, it's just go although characters kind of
having their own little moment. But then, yeah, her sitting

(52:01):
and talking with Grubbs for one more martini, that's pretty great.

Speaker 4 (52:06):
Yeah, and her dropping the dime on Alex and Milly
drinking and driving and twist Millie's driving setting it all up,
and Mouth not not going to jail to pick her up.
Good for you, Mouth, good for you.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
And good for Brooke. Brooke didn't do it either.

Speaker 4 (52:22):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, listen, half a million dollars when
you've done one job.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Come on, you need a new agent.

Speaker 4 (52:32):
Sounds like you need a new agent and a healthy
slice of reality pie. All right. Susanne asks, how has
your experience working on this show or in the industry
impacted your life outside of work? Has it changed how
you approach personal relationships or other aspects of your life?

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Paul, it's too big of an answers too much. I'll
do my best to make a pithy write that down.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
How about how about One Tree Hill. Let's not say
the industry. Let's just say this job working on.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
I have my second family because of it. I have
my lifelong friends because of it. I have this beautiful
people I can go to with all those years we
spent together, I sometimes wish we had kept together more,
but I will. It's that's the greatest gift from it.
The fans. I've never had any fans from any of
the show I've ever done, and I've been on a

(53:23):
few like this. And how does it approach my personal relationships.
It's complicated because you know, it's it's part of now.
I know this sounds maybe a bit there's a little
hubrist in here, but there's if the show had impact
more than I ever thought when we were shooting it.
Twenty years later, I'm still approached on airplanes and in

(53:45):
restaurants and stuff like that, and it's a huge and
I go, oh, that's right. I was on a TV
show Because you know, I forget why you're coming up
to me. And it's sweet. It's very sweet. It's all
how you take it. You know, I had one girlfriend
one time, a long long time ago. It was really
irritated that I was being approached all the time, and
I said, what bothers you better when she goes, well,
they don't know you, And I said, no, no, they do.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
To them, they do, and you should.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Be your fans. You should be. There're the reason we're here.
You know, it's silly.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
It's a little light answer, but it's no, it's kind
of the same one that I was going to have.
I don't I mean, is it's a huge there's a
huge answer. I think any profession has a massive effect
on your personal life. And what's hard can be the
hours I mean, I've definitely had. I mean, if we're
going to stick with this show, I think it's the
same thing that Paul was saying, like, you never quite

(54:38):
know when I'm making a new friend, I don't know
if they've seen the show or not, and sometimes that
can be awkward and sometimes it's not. I don't know.
I mean, the industry in general has affected my life
in terms of it's mostly just the time that a

(55:02):
lot of people don't have our schedule, and I have
lost friendships because there are people who just can't They
can't understand the time constraint and they can't understand the
demand that's put on us and it's like I've called you,
you know, where have you been the last four weeks?
And I'm like, I'm so sorry. I was filming fourteen

(55:22):
hours a day.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
I just in Bulgaria and a castle in a cool drift.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Well yeah, well I usually don't say that. What are
your glass slippers?

Speaker 4 (55:30):
To type?

Speaker 1 (55:31):
But you know, like you try, but not everyone is
cut out for being in relationship for someone who's in
this industry too, because it's the circus and you can't
be as consistent as what some people need. So you
find different ways of connecting with people. And that's okay.
But that's been hard, a hard lesson to learn. But

(55:53):
I've been given so many gifts and so I've learned
so much as an artist and as a human just
from it's too big of an answer. I've learned so
much and I love it. What about you, Rob?

Speaker 4 (56:04):
Yeah? Friends, Uh, definitely, Like when we do these you know,
like this show and when we do conventions, it's it's
fun for me because it's like I really get to
see this group of people I like, you know, and
we have this incredible shared experience. So I'm very grateful
for that. And to be honest, with you. This show
helped me get to a place where I finally found
my way to therapy. Really yeah, because you know, it's

(56:28):
like I came on and it was just weird, right
because everyone in the town knew where we knew who
we were. So there was a lot of like isolating
because I was already kind of going through a tough time.
So I would just sort of withdrawing, like all just
hang out in my apartment and yeah, like my mental
health wasn't great, and I finally it was like I
hit a point where I was just like, ah, something
has to change, and and so like that was the

(56:50):
first time I got introduced to my very first therapist
halfway through One Tree Hill or about two thirds of
the way through, and that began. It was sort of
like the ending of that chapter of my life and
the beginning of this journey of like actually figuring out
who the hell I am and what I want to
do what makes me happy. So I'm incredibly great. Like

(57:10):
I've said on this show, it's like it was a
tough experience for me personally, but I'm immensely grateful for it.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
You touch on something really interesting that I think a
lot of people who don't know anything about the entertainment industry.
They look at lives of actors who are working and
they think, oh, it's so glamorous. Yeah they work hard,
blah blah blah. But look at all they get to
go to all the parties and they get to you know,
get where of reservations, wherever they want. But the isolation

(57:38):
is so real because, especially depending on your level of success,
not knowing who you can trust, not knowing if someone's
talking to you because and being nice to you because
they're a nice person and you're having a genuine, lovely interaction,
or if somebody's just blowing smoke up your ass because

(57:58):
you're a celebrity. There's also just having people know things
about your life. You know, you're you're trying to be
a private person, just have your own life, and people
following you around and gossiping about you. It's a small town,
so you say something, you look at somebody sideways, you're
having a bad day. Boy does that get spread around?
And that's really hard. It just makes you want to

(58:21):
go into a shell and like, everybody, just leave me alone.
I just want to hide. And then you get isolated,
and then you don't have anybody to talk to.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
It's hard get about sharing an opinion about anything important.

Speaker 4 (58:31):
Yeah, and it's one thing like if you're shooting in
New York, no one in New York cares. They see
bigger and better all the time on the sidewalk. But
in Wilmington, literally every single person knew who we were
and what that did. Is because I'm like Paul, if
someone wants to say, like coach to me and say hey,
I love this thing you did, like I want to
take a moment to hear that, validate it, tell them

(58:53):
thank you, maybe snap a picture like one moment, right.
But the problem is when you're and you're having a
hard day, when you're a court low and you just
don't have it in you to do that. And you know,
when you leave your door, that's all you're going to get,
you know, going for coffee, sitting down for breakfast. It's
just easier to go I'm just going to stay. I'm

(59:15):
just going to stay here by myself in all order something,
you know. So like there was just like I said,
I just isolated a lot. But yeah, but like it
was also the beginning of me going like oh cool,
I think I know who I am, but let's find out.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Tell us about your book tour real quick.

Speaker 4 (59:29):
Me.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Oh yeah, I'm going out a book t You're so sweet, Paul. Yeah,
my book tour for my memoir Dinner for Vampires is
coming out. We are on a book tour on October,
the week that it goes out, October twenty first. It's great, Yeah,
I mean, it's really the story is really about my
own mess. I mean, One Tree Hill is this setting.
It's a backdrop, but the story is about my own

(59:56):
huge mistakes that I made in my own life. But
hopefully it'll it'll make people feel like they're not so
alone and isolated.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
Yeah, to use that book about twenty years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Joy, yeh, wait to read it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Thank you?

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
All right, everybody, let's spin a wheel.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Paul.

Speaker 4 (01:00:14):
When it lands, would you mind telling the listeners what
it is? Oh? Perfect, read it?

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Paul the winner of the spinny wheel most likely to
sleep walk.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
I'm just going to jump right in and say, Clay,
and for those who know you know, I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
I agree. Oh yeah, Clay for sure. And Paul, I
feel like you do you sleepwalk? You seem like a sleepwalker.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
I have, but I'm a sleep talker.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Ooh, that's juicy.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
Yeah, so it's yeah, it's I'm sure it's revealed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
All have fun for your girlfriends.

Speaker 4 (01:00:59):
Paul, Joe Anson, never not talking.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
That's that's my novel coming out free order. All right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
Next week we have season seven, episode eleven, seven eleven.
You know I love you, don't you do too? Paul?
You are lovely an utter delight as per usual, my friend.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Thank you for inviting me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Thank you, love you. It's great to see you. We'll
talk to you soon, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
See you, buddy. Hi everybody, So everybody have a great week.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.
You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's
o t h or email us at Drama Queens at
iHeartRadio dot com. See you next time. We all about
that high school drama. Girl Drama, Girl, all about them
high school Queens. We'll take you for a ride at

(01:01:53):
our comic girl Sharing for the right team Drama Queens
Up Girl Fashion.

Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
What you'll tell me?

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Girl? You could sit with us Girl Drama Queens, Drama,
Queens Drama, Queens Drama drah MC Queens Drama Queens