May 16, 2022 • 59 mins
Joy is joined by her BFF, Paul Johansson aka Dan Scott, and together they are taking over the show!
This is Part 1 of the Season 2 Finale and surprise, surprise… Peyton cries. A lot. But Paul has a realization about Peyton and Jake that he never understood until this moment.
Discover the shocking reason why Paul loves watching Dan this many years later!! Then, join in as he and Joy discuss the many facets of being an artist, a parent, a romantic partner and much more. Bonus: Hollywood stories from Paul’s lengthy career including a great moment on set with Sally Field!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
First of all, you don't know me. Were all about
that high school drama, Girl Drama Girl, all about them
high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in
our comic Girl Cheering for the drama Queens Girl Fashion,
but you'll tough, girl, you could sit with us Girl Drama, Queens, Drama,
Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama Queens. Hey, sports fans,
(00:28):
we are back for another edition of Drama Queens, and
this one we are talking about episode twenty two in
season two, The Tide That Left and Never Came Back
Air date two thousand and five. Uh, here's what happens
in this episode. Um, Hillary cries a lot, Chad does
a really nice job of being very sincere, and uh
(00:49):
brand Greenberg is a full teen heartthrob. But really, it's
part one of season two finale and we have Jimmy
eat World, Lucas and Brook head to New York for
an overnight stay of Haley. Peyton and Jake's relationship hits
another bump in the road because if Nikki and Dan
is still out to destroy Karen, he's ruining our relationship
with Andy. And meanwhile, Andy's trying to find out what
(01:10):
Dan is hiding in his office. Bum bum, and Nathan's
got a really big decision to make about high Flyers
and his family. If you're wondering why it sounds a
little quiet here, it's because I am the only drama
queen and the only wine in the studio today. But
never fear, we have an awesome, awesome guest today, one
of my dearest dearest friends, uh who you may recognize
(01:35):
Maybe you might recognize him. Um. He was raised in Cologna,
British Columbia, as the son of an ice hockey player.
But he started his acting career on a soap opera
called Santa Barbara. And then he did Beverly Hills nine
O two and oh, and then he did soap Dish.
This guy was even in the notebook Ladies and Gentlemen,
A drama king in his own right, My dear friend,
(01:57):
Paul Johansson, Hello, Paul King. That's just because we share
our lives spartally, we know our dramas right, Drama king
and queen for sure. Oh my goodness, Wait, what did
it feel like to watch this episode back? I mean,
how long has it been since you've watched an episode
except for the one did you watch one before you did?
Our live episode? I have to admit I didn't watch it.
(02:19):
I watched part of it, No, I did. I watched
part of some of it because we discussed it. But
to really sit and just take it all in after yeah,
the season finale. Right, Yeah, it's been it's been a
long time. How did that feel? You know? Actually, um,
there's a lot of the you know, the world has
(02:40):
turned TV right. All the great filmmakers are making TV
shows now, all the big actors are big stars. Were like, oh,
they'll never do TV. They're all TV. It's all changed.
It's a huge different world out there. And so but
to go and see the simpleness and the sweetness, and
we were talking about it during the pot the episode
(03:03):
we're watching together, there was something really charming and and
the way that our creators made music the backbone of
our show. Yeah, give it a give it a kind
of like a poetry about it, don't you think? I am?
I totally think so. I felt like, Um, they introduced
me to a lot of bands that I didn't know about. Um,
I guess because I was never really into the modern
(03:24):
trendy music scene. I was always such like an old
hippie with music and listening to Carol King in my
room and Billy Joel and so it was really fun
to be able to hear what all the new bands
were and be introduced all this new talent um and
clearly Jimmy Eat World at the time was a really
big deal and got bigger. Um, so that was really fun.
(03:45):
Um do I sh'll have something to do with a
little bit bump in their careers? I think it did.
I mean I don't. I would love to ask them,
but uh, it had to have. I mean, the show
was huge at the time. Season two was when it
really started to lift off, Which is crazy because we've
been saying this whole time that it's was such a
boring season, like or just it's not boring, but kind
(04:05):
of a terrible season. It was just so over the
top and so many things that we didn't love. But um, yeah, no,
I you know what it reminds me when I you've mentioned,
um Santa Barbara, like nobody yes back in the day
is doing soap operas. The producer used to walk through
the set before everything going, Remember tension, everybody tension, like
(04:27):
they wanted conflict conflict. Every scene has that conflict, And
so I was watching this episode that was like, going,
this is kind of the formula for keeping people interested. Yeah, conflict,
and this episode is rife with conflict. It's non stop.
I mean, it was a finale, So I think that's
fair enough. I wouldn't have said this ten years ago
(04:48):
when I watched if I watched this episode, which I
think I did. But my favorite storyline in this episode
I really liked Jake and Hillary Store. I thought there
was something. I mean, she was literally sobbing in every scene,
every scene. I wish she was here right now because
she would have so many fun things to say about that.
(05:11):
But you know, he's got you know now that I'm
a single dad, Yeah, and I know and you're you know,
we both know what it's like to raise, you know,
a little one in in the in the in the
craziness of of having you know, family, cord and all
that kind of stuff, you know, and you see you know,
his you know, I just see a real kind of
(05:33):
honor about the way that he approached it, you know
what I mean, he's fighting hard, but he's but he's
but he's he's still got this great and I love
his love for his daughter, that it's it's more than
his love for even Peyton kind of be a great parent,
you kind of love with your kids more than your partner.
I don't know, you know what I actually have. I've
(05:54):
heard different sides on that, and I'm very curious about, Well,
that's something that actually is worth talking about because as
a parent, I mean, I'm a single mom, so I
don't I don't. I can't speak from experience on this,
but it does seem to me that in order to
give your child the stability that a child needs, that
making your partner the most important person in the the
(06:18):
family um to you and then the children come second
kind of eliminates an element of codependence with your child.
That you know, the child knows their place in the
structure of the family and their place in the world,
rather than feeling like they might be above the other parent.
That is a beautiful interpretation. I've never heard of put
(06:40):
that way before. But I really need to sit with
that and ponder that. I love it. Like what I
would submit to you would be one is that I
think they may be different loves, you know, and that
and the second part would be that um I've never
experienced either. I've come first before. It's usually know, my
(07:02):
career comes first. You know this is my favorite car.
You're never driving it? All right? Yeah, no, I've I
don't think i've ever I've never experienced that either. Um,
not my childhood, but first ever, ever, ever in someone's life, like,
you've never been you are my priority. I'm going to
make sure that this is the most pore thing to
me and you've never been made to feel that way. Um,
(07:22):
I don't. I think I have a couple of with
Like maybe I can think of maybe one or maybe
two boyfriends that I felt that way with, but it
always came with baggage of like there was actually a
neediness underneath it, where by them making me the priority,
it felt like they were. That was my follow up question.
(07:45):
Yeah it was. It was more about them than it right,
it was more about them than it was about me.
So so I think, No, I don't think I can
see why it's hard. It's hard for us as men
to know I'm gonna make you first. Well, if I
make a first, you won't respect me. So okay, I'm
gonna she is first, but I'm going to let her
know that I'm gonna act like you know, I'm not
(08:06):
gonna go with the guys tonight, you know, right. I
don't know if it's that it's that I wouldn't respect
it or don't respect it. I think it's just that
I don't want there to be any guile about it.
I don't want there to be any like like you're
trying to get something out of it by being the
Knight in Shining Armor. Like it's the quiet honor that
(08:27):
you actually talk about a lot, Paul, in your life
and the way that you function in your life, with
your relationships and with your son and with your work,
and there's a there's an internal honor code that and
that I think is what I'm looking for in the
context of what we're talking about, where it's not just um,
hey look at me, I'm then I in tchining armor. Okay,
(08:47):
now give me something for it. It's just a like
a genuine offering of you're my priority, and I don't
need you to give anything any back, because then I
will give above and beyond. But if I sense that
there's diyal, it freaks me out and I kind of
back off. Let me ask you a question about that
when you feel you're about to step over that line
(09:10):
of that code, ever, because they know you and I
have a lot of similarities with it. Yeah, it's almost
like an alarm is ringing inside of You're going, you're not.
This isn't who you are, this isn't. But even if
it's easy, fine, and you test that code sometimes even
if it's what say again, even if it's it's an
easy step over the line, like something you know that
you you like. It's a terrible example, but like taking
(09:33):
a job just for the money when you know that
it's like something you shouldn't be doing because your heart's
taking to be in it. Right. I know a lot
of people may not may not be able to understand that,
but from an artist point of view, that that's almost
like selling your soul and it's hameful, but we've all
kind of gone there, and you what you do is
you try not to be too hard in yourself, yeah,
and say, you know, I'm you know, it's like I've
(09:55):
got to be able to forgive myself for that moment
because there's a bigger picture if I can, if I
can really live the good life that I want to
live in, and most of all, wake up and look
in the mirror and not be disappointed, then everything else
will be okay. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah,
there has to be that internal honor code. And and
as artists, I think we as actors particularly, I guess,
(10:17):
we become professional bullshit detectors in a lot of ways,
and that, you know, bleeds into our relationships because I
know I do. My alarms all go crazy. Yeah, if
I feel like somebody's not being real with me, and
then I can just pick and pick and pick um.
But but bring it back to the kids, which is
(10:39):
that you know, I have never been I haven't been
in a relationship long enough with my romantic relationship long
enough while I've had my daughter to be able to
say that this theory works. But in theory, it does
seem to make sense to me, and I appreciate what
Jake does. If there was if there was a say,
(11:00):
here's the here's the components that I need to be
in a relationship, like you have to be attracted to
of course you have to respect them, yes, and you
have to have similar long term goals yea, values and
long term goals. And I guess, yeah, else I'm missing
on that. No, I think, I think that's it. Values
is a huge one. And and then yeah, long term goals,
(11:22):
I think, well, long term goals changed. I mean the
long term goals I think I had when I was
twenty are very different than what I have now. For me,
it was only I just said to be traffic. That
was I think, really that was a cut off. How
many years did you live like that as a as
a as a handsome acting bachelor like party man out
(11:43):
there you had access to everything, I mean everything at
your feet, at your disposal. How long did you live
your life that way before you started to go, Okay,
I need a shift now. My dating life is an
HBO special. It is. It is a It is a
complicated long I mean I did a girl that we
were followed by the CIA one time. I did what Yeah,
(12:06):
I diated a girl who was involved in a very
big political scandal back in like the late nineteen um
and uh and you know he's quite a famous person.
And then you know, you know who else I've dated.
It's been very interesting. But you know I didn't. I
came from a small town, you said at the beginning
of the thing. From Cologna, British Columbia, beautiful little Twasia,
(12:29):
lake Town in in Canada, which and and you know,
and you like you you can from New Jersey and
now we you meet all these people that everyone has
this idea what they are. Nobody, nobody is like what
they perceived to be in there in the public persona.
Everybody's way more complicated, nuanced and deferent. I totally agree
(12:52):
with that. It's so hard to just take one glance
or no a character or no, you know, read some
interviews or whatever, see some interviews and feel like you
really have a whole rounded picture. When Jake was on
his motorcycle or you're like, would you say he said
he's such a teen heart throb, so that there you go,
see the image of a young, handsome, honorable single man
(13:17):
fighting for your hair. Los. I know, thanks, I'm having fun.
He's got the James Dean look over his shoulders, not
looking at that. He's gotta look over his shoulder over
it's gotta been going on. And you go, and you know,
I guess I could hear on the other side you sweating.
I can hear. And I was like, going, yeah, okay,
I get it. There's the image. But that sort of
plays into our thing. It's like, this is the presentation,
(13:41):
but we know he's goofy and lovable and intelligent and
funny and fun and like it's he's not just like
deep and tortured. He's you know, I mean, so we
get these fragments, you get glimpses, glimpses. Well, I loved
(14:04):
the glimpses we got of him and Hillary. I agreed
they did a really nice job and they had a
great storyline. And I also really liked to chat in
this episode a lot. I thought he was really sincere,
you know, being their moments. Yeah, I thought so too.
I thought he didn't stretch, he wasn't pushing hard. It
was very natural. I agree with you. I think he
(14:25):
was very good in Yeah, really since here and just
kind of the thread between all this all the story
you questioned the moment when he sits and judges Haley
for playing around. She wasn't it wasn't it wasn't sexual
in contest with you and and oh yeah, but come on,
he hasn't seen her in ages, Like the first time
he shows up to see her and she's like on
(14:46):
a couch, you know, mess wrestling with this guy. I
don't know. I get that he was annoying, giggling, and
then he's passing judgment. I was like, going, come on,
you know, yeah too, that's real. It is. And one
of the things about going back and watching this show, UM,
it's been fun to realize where we are now in
(15:10):
our maturity and our understanding of the gray areas of
life and how nothing is exactly what it seems. And
you know, there's just so many facets to a person
and their experiences, and when you're in high school or
when you're in your early twenties like we were when
we were filming it, UM, and you know, then there
(15:30):
you have so much judgment and the world seems much
more black and white. And I think you and I
see that with our kids too, because I know Maria's
like that the things are very black and white and
trying to explain, well, there's gray areas here. I mean,
I know, Quentn you're laughing, go ahead, especially as communists.
I'm this way, Dad, I'm like, yeah, tell me in
five years what you are. You know, it's funny. I
(15:53):
was thinking about what you're saying about the what we
our perception of people too, was like when I was
in high school. I knew what my my future wife
was gonna be. She was gonna be speak French and
where Chanelle all the time, and she was gonna be
speak nine languages and you know, have a PhD and philosophy,
and she's gonna love me and we're gonna be together
for a God, that's such a high box, right, and
(16:16):
then you know liketies and fifties just of a pulse.
It's like, literally, I'm gonna narrow it down way small. Right.
Oh god, now, um I was I'm looking at my
notes here because there was so there was so much
drama in this episode. For a second. Yeah, let's talk
(16:41):
about Dan because what the hell was that with Karen?
Oh my god, are you going to the kiss right away?
To go? Okay, we can build up to it. Go ahead. Well,
I just thought that, you know, I just see Okay,
First off, there was something early on with you, right,
we had a little thing there, right that it was
that that was a flashback when you brought me annulment papers.
(17:03):
That's okay, okay, that sets up this finale definitely, right,
And that's the papers that you gave Lucas right to
give it to him. Yeah, because you I think you've
forged Nathan's signature or something, but you gave me the
paperwork and told me that Nathan had signed it, and
so I believed you. How many times do people have
(17:24):
to be proven wrong by believing Dan and finding out
that he's just lying? What's that old adage again? It's
like when people show you who they are, believe him. Yeah,
but you know, I gotta be honest with you. Um,
even though I'm the actor playing the part. Um, I
(17:44):
really enjoyed Dan. I enjoyed when he came on. I went, Okay,
something's gonna happen. Yeah, that's a nice feeling, you know
what I mean? Yeah? Is that one of your favorite
things about playing Dan? Or playing a character that is
so um, instigating of things or I don't know, help
me with my vocabulary, because this is you're so like.
(18:07):
This is why you and our friends your instincts as
an artist are always so like like perfect. It's like,
I love talking because it Jore now with us. We know.
I know that you cut to stuff. When Karen comes
in and she's mad, she's like spitting fire man. You know,
she's Satan's mistress at the moment, and she comes in.
(18:29):
If you the first cut to me sitting in the chair,
I see her in my and immediately I started to go,
got her because peck somebody? And then my character smiling
because he knows I got her. Oh, why would he
do anything unless he go to reaction? Everything is for
a reaction. And that was the fun part of playing down,
was I get to make people react. Yes, son, Yes,
(18:54):
that's what that's the fun part about. Any anyone will
tell you playing a villain is fun mhm, because you
get to get a reaction out of people. Everything that
you do is very forward movement. Um, and it's it's
got a lot of energy behind it. It's really fun.
But then you don't play. You don't, you don't, you don't,
you don't want to. The really interesting and nuance to that,
(19:15):
which makes it really interesting is once you've got them,
is you play opposite their energy when they come in
the room. Yes, she's moving and I'm very still. Yeah,
and she's moving, I'm very still. It's like you want
and make them. Oh god, it's a classic. I mean,
I know you and I both have experienced with narcissists
in different areas in our life, and um, I it's that,
(19:38):
but that is so classic. That's what they do. They
pick at you and pick at you, and they do
enough things to where you explode because you're a normal
human being with a normal reaction. And then they turn
around and go, look how crazy you are? Oh you
really need help. Yeah, yeah, I know it's scary, but
you knew that, and you know, you knew how to
(20:00):
had those layers to dan, which I love. You know.
It's funny because you know, I mean, you know, there's
no specifics in this, because I don't think of course,
because we pull a lot of our you know, our
our work off of not one person, but just a
plethora of life experience. Absolutely, But I will say that
the people that have irritated me, that have got under
(20:21):
my skin the most are the ones that I I,
against my better nature, still trusted, like yeah, because they
weren't good. They were like, you know, supportive and loving
and this and this, But something inside of me was going, yeah,
it doesn't feel authentic, but I still wanted to give
(20:42):
the benefit the doubt. Yeah, what is that gut feeling?
It's hard to get in touch with your gut sometimes
if you I spent a lot of years of my
life believing that my instincts were bad and and and
um it just messed up like they was something wrong
with my instincts, and so I needed to trust other
(21:03):
people's instincts for me. And I spent a lot of
time handing out my autonomy to other people that I trusted.
Some people were lovely people that I trusted, and some
people did terrible things to me because I trusted them,
and um, I shouldn't have. But at the end of
the day, that's my fault for not not um oh,
(21:25):
I guess. I mean, you're a kid when I was,
especially when you're young. You know, those things get taught
to you in such a strange ways. But um, at
the end of the day, it is our responsibility to
learn how to come out of that and and trust
that nobody knows better for us than us. We're the
only people that have our gut. We're the only people
(21:46):
living our lives. And you know, walking through life, not
taking chances, not not risking, trusting the wrong people is
no way to live. So I think you kind of
have to do that. You have to experiment with that.
These are the great takeaways from our show, though, imagine
our audience watches all these scenarios. In this episode, there
(22:07):
was fifty different scenarios of people be manipulated or feeling
bad or situation is not going the way you wanted
them to, and it was about how people reacting to them.
And so what all of our fans come up to
us at conventions on the street and they want to
talk about the show and they want to hear about it.
You know, you realize that they're living through these characters
(22:28):
and they're bringing in their own life experiences and going
and it helps in a way. And I don't mean
like to educate, but the more you see it going
bad and the more you see it going good, more
you see and help people react to situations, the more
that you can say, oh, this is why I need
to watch the show because it gives me at least
some sort of um um confirmation that I'm not crazy
(22:51):
and that I'm not the bad person or I'm not
doing anything wrong. Life just happens, and it's how I'm
back to it and finds who I am. Yeah, I
totally agree with that. All. That's a really sweet way
of looking at the show too. I love that you said,
speaking of trust issues, you said. When we were watching
this episode, Lucas and Haley were laying in bed. They
(23:15):
were just, you know, it was a late night best friends,
just laying there, staring out at the moon shining in
the window and talking about as it does, and you know,
talking about life. And he says, I noticed you're not
wearing your wedding ring. And she says, it's not because
I don't love him, and it's not because of the
press tour of the record label. It's because I feel
(23:36):
like I don't deserve to. And you didn't buy it. No,
I didn't, And I think that's a really genuine So
tell okay, tell me what you think, Tell me what
why that bothered you something. We're good friends. You tell
me why you think I didn't buy and then I'll
tell you if you're right. You know me and I
want to see this is like, this is like that
(23:58):
you know what I said on the any game? They go,
how well do you know your part? Oh? Gosh, okay,
all right, um, okay, let's see. You felt like it
was a you felt like it was an evasive answer,
and uh, I think you were bothered by the fact
that she wasn't being completely honest. With herself. You felt
(24:22):
like she wasn't being honest with herself or with Lucas.
I think it also bothered you because I know you've
been lied to many times by women in your life,
and I'm sure that's built up a pattern. So I
wonder if maybe your immediate distrust of that answer it
was partly because you felt like you've been lied to
(24:43):
a lot. I don't know. You are, in my mind,
you know me better than anybody, and you answered it beautifully.
You are the money. Really, yeah, it was I was
listening to myself, a much prettier version of myself, and
(25:05):
so you thought the real answer maybe would be, uh,
I'm confused, I don't know what I want, and you
know you've got a better The first time when you
said that there was this, there was a bit of
dishonesty to herself about it. You know, I think that
she knows why she take it off, but admitting it
(25:25):
is to um is to um accountable. It would make
her too accountable for what she's really feeling, which is
what do you think? Which is like, I mean, not
what what's what's on the show, but what Paul Johnson
interprets those types of behad. But yes, that's what I'm asking, right, okay,
because I want to make sure there's definitely in it.
So my interpretation of that is like, I'm a good girl.
(25:49):
I'm I'm I'm never gonna cheat on my husband. I'm
never gonna put it out there that I'm available even
I'm still married, blah blah blah blah blah. But I'm
gonna pick off my ring and and tickle and you know,
my my best friend on the sofa gigglily giggli with
some sexual you know, vibes to it. But I'm medicine,
though I'm innicine. My feeling is, I'm a diehard romantic.
(26:11):
I always have been. I believe in love. I'm just
not very good at it. And my feeling is is
if I truly loved somebody, you would have to cut
my finger off before you give my wedding, and off
even after we divorced, because my love, like is immutable,
it is strong, and I believe in it. I believe
(26:33):
in that. I believe in marriage. I believe in that stuff.
I just wish that you know that there was like
you and I lived in a fairytale world where, like
you know, love could survive anything if it was real,
you know what I mean, But I can't. You know,
it's it's a it's a romantic vision of the world
that doesn't exist, and so it bothers me that it
doesn't exist. You know what I mean? Yes, I do
(26:56):
know what you mean, as would you say. It's not
a perfect answer, but it's mine. Yes, so that I
still just don't understand it though I don't understand mean,
I get generally what you're saying, but I don't quite
understand what you love. Does she still love? Yes? Does
she like? And he knows that she loves her? So
(27:18):
that's that's real. So that's all the ring means. Taking
the ring off is not like taking up ease deserve it.
Taking the ring off is saying, you know, I'm basically
saying unavailable. My heart is not taken by one person anymore.
That's what the simbolism to me meant. That's why I
would I call so it was like almost like us,
(27:39):
it's a way of deceiving yourself. That's really what you're doing,
is uh, notifying the world that you are available again,
and do you think any more? Love story was more
profound on this series one to real for ten or
nine years, that story, that was the love story of
the show. Yeah, it was my favorite one to watch.
(28:01):
And I was there when he proposed to you. I
shot that episode, Oh you did? Oh my gosh, Paul,
I forgot about that shot, the one where you guys were,
you know, falling off the bed leaving the voice message together.
And I mean, I loved shooting you guys together. So
I'm gonna I'm gonna bat back at that response. And
you're not totally wrong. Actually, Uh, in my opinion, based
(28:25):
on me being me as Haley listening to that response,
I wouldn't say you're totally wrong. But what I would
say is that, um, there's an element of feeling like
she doesn't deserve it because she knows that she hasn't
lived up to Nathan's expectations of her, and that she
(28:46):
has sort of allowed herself to open her heart to
the possibility of other people or someone else and maybe
the marriage ending and like that that would lead her
then to feeling that self loathing of I don't even
deserve this anyway, which it's kind of like a double
(29:06):
edged Is it a double edged sword? Is that the
right analogy? It's definitely. Um. Yeah, I mean I think
I've been in Can we joy? Can we love? Can
you love two men at the same time with two guys?
Like I don't know, you know what I mean, I
(29:27):
don't know. I know that I can't. Yeah, because I
know me now, after all these years, I know that
I can really love a present of the time. I
mean I could love people in different ways. Yeah, but
you know what I'm talking about. No, it's been It's hard.
There's always like if I'm really in love with someone,
I've I've done it where I've been in love with someone,
(29:48):
it's not working. And then I go out with other
people and Um, as much as I try, great as
they are, just I just can't. No, it's too hard. Yeah.
Um well, yeah was the was the like you know
we've commented on the the um Karen and Karen. Yeah,
(30:11):
I was going to go to them next, because that's
another another thing of of the tragedies of not to
not to Well, I should go onto this quote. The
quote was there two tragedies in life? This is the
quote of the episode. There are two tragedies in life. Yes,
to gain the desire of your heart or to lose
the desire of your heart and also to gain it.
(30:31):
So another loss here Karen and Andy. But I love
the two actors. I love them very much. I really
love them. The love that that felt forced a little
bit to me, It felt a little bit unearned in
terms of the way that it ended to me. What
(30:51):
do you mean because you because they just didn't feel
like they had enough history. That's that's really the crux
of the point. You capted immediately as as you do, Joy,
But are also is that I felt that, you know,
they maybe there was something edited out of the episode
that might have given us a little bit more to
Oh that's interesting, I mean yeah, I mean but also
(31:13):
you haven't been watching the last you know, twenty two
episodes and there, husband, come on, we know you don't
have time for that. You fancy that You've got so
much going on. That last line that he threw out
at her, Oh that was rough. That felt like it
didn't need to be said. What did he say? I
(31:34):
love you? I love you too? It was just seems
like it just isn't enough. Yeah, wow, ouch, that was rough. Um, yeah,
that was rough. But Karen had a Karen had a
big episode here. Oh she was when she came firing
in man she does she does that irish anger. Really
(31:58):
we were staying. In the other episode, her whole chest
went red in her face when she got angry with
Lucas for something a few episodes ago. It was great. Yeah,
And she's such a calm and kind person in life,
so it's great to see that her her her her
her as what they called her her paint, her canvas.
(32:21):
Her canvas is so beautiful with colors that she can
just raw them in, you know what I mean. There
was one moment in this that felt strange to me,
which was when after Andy leaves your office and you
throw the award through the new glass window, presumably the
new glass window. You know what budged me about it, Paul,
(32:44):
is that I just didn't believe Dan would ever give
anyone the satisfaction of knowing that they had piste him off. No,
I agree with you. I think there was some There
were some conversations on this set about it was an
un unmotivated overreaction to me, and I think that I
remember having the conversation. But what they wanted was the bookends,
(33:05):
the window back to back for you know, for the
drama of the finale, and so we had to get
there somewhere. My job is to give them what they
wish in a way that feels truthful, um, and if
it honestly um. Sometimes you can't fully achieve those things
when requested, even when you put your very best work
into it. You know, what was your experience like on
(33:33):
other shows with things like that, because I think in
TV that happens a lot where something is just on
a page or you know, a writer's room decided here's
what we need for the poetry of the of the episode,
and they're not taking into consideration that an actor you know,
may be able to bring to light reasons why it
would not be organic to do it that way. Um.
(33:56):
And yet it's television, it's not film. We don't have
time to rehearse and a just all those things. Do
you Was it was it, uh the similar on other
TV shows that you had been on that there was
a lot of that all the time, or was it
mostly on more on One Tree Hill or less? Or
you've had such a long career. There's two answers to
that that I would like to like to put forward.
(34:17):
First off, is because it's a really great question for
people that are listening, that have you know, ideas of
theater or acting whatever, and so they may run in
these situations. So it's nicely to talk about the process,
especially the collabor process on that level. On procedural shows,
you know, you know them all, there's so many of them.
There's no conversations. This is what's happening. The committee. The
(34:39):
committee has has just passed down the lecture and this
is what's happening to do because they shoot them fast,
you get out and you don't have debate. You know,
on that, it's it's happening um on. On a show
with a really hands on kind of showrunner like a
Matt Weiner who've worked for people like that, there's intelligent
(35:01):
conversations which help you understand the process is where they
got to and these aren't you know, these sort of
like quick decisions. They're very thought out and they have
meaningful collaborations without actors and you get to to figure
things out which which work and they will make adjustments
in order to make that work. But to turn it
(35:22):
all around from a directing point of view, as a director,
and you've worked with me as a director, if an
actor says to me, uh, this isn't. I'm not just
doesn't feel or good. I feel like I'm I'm taking
this to me. That is like the death of anything
I ever want filmed. Yeah, the same way, you know,
Yeah you are. And I remember one time, you know,
(35:42):
you and I were working on a scene and you
were supposed to what you were supposed to get really
mad into something, and you said, I just feel like
I want to like wipe this table theme and smash everything,
and said, well do it, and you're like, I can't
do that, and you kind of stopped. Remember in your draft,
I can do it. I went yea And I said,
well then they'll have to clean up. And I said,
then they'll have to clean it over, Like that's no
(36:04):
disrespect to the but that's their job. Yeah, sure, we'll
have a job. Your job is to be truthful, and
our job is to give you the environment to be
truthful in Yes, you know, so you figure it out,
you know, Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, I remember, Yeah,
I remember on soaps there was there was such a
fast pace with that schedule, and I don't know if
(36:27):
they were shot differently in l A. Than they were
in New York, because did you guys do camera blocking,
like you went in and did like rehearsal blocking in
a blank room. Then you did camera blocking, and then
everybody shot. They had like a slot between one and
five that they would go in and shoot their scenes
in the afternoon. That's how we shout our total three
of those. We didn't have a rear. We had an
(36:48):
onset read through where the director and the producers would
walk through the set cold and the director would go,
this is where you stand, and then you over here.
Then you move over here, and it's literally paint lines
on the floor, so you wouldn't miss it, you know.
But then they always had it was four, you know what,
(37:10):
always three or four cameras going same time, and then
in the afternoon you'd block out your pieces and shoot
them and you usually do them twice, right, because there
were some soaps that would you would go in and
everything was done all at once, so you would go
in and do your blocking, then you would immediately do
camera blocking, and then you would shoot your scene. So
(37:30):
everybody just went in hair and makeup at different times,
but everything would happen at once, and I never liked
the idea of that. I'm glad we didn't do that.
Because we gave us time to process after our blocking rehearsal.
You'd have time to process before you went back to
camera blocking and said, wait, something feels wrong, something doesn't
feel right about this country. Hill was every director kind
(37:53):
of their own vibe, but we always kept the same
kind of formula, right you know, yeah, yeah, that was
that everybody. You would come in and get your makeup done.
You'd really just get to set and start. You'd rehearsed quickly.
There was a twenty minute break for camera blocking or
two hours, depending on depending on what was going on
(38:14):
that day, and then shoot we did among the fans
would have loved to have been in the in the
makeup room where all the gossip was going down and
we're talking about the weekends and who did wet and
wet and where and now, and it's like bonding and
friendships and people bringing in cookies. It was. It was fun.
(38:36):
It was There was also a lot of drama in
there and makeup trailer and I we've We've talked a
lot Hillary, Sophia and I on the show. I've talked
a lot about um. You know, there's just there's so
many so easy to have so many misunderstandings and and
it's so it is a place for gossip a lot
of the time. And something I can say that I've
noticed in this business is as time has gone on,
(39:01):
it's not like it used to be. In the hair
makeup trailer it's talking about someone behind their back or
gossip or you know where the whole trailer is just
like up in arms talking about something that's not happening anymore.
I haven't seen that on a set in a very
long time. Good. Yeah, So, I don't know, it's just tracking.
And a lot of times I would wear headphones because
(39:22):
I just couldn't hear. I have to go do a
scene with somebody, and I'm finding all these things out
about them that have nothing to do with my scene,
and I really want to be focused on the work,
preparing my performance and preparing mental place for that character
you're walking into the scene. You know this whole thing
that people um one thing that is always lacking in
conversations about watching shows. When you watch neib to watch
(39:45):
TV show UM and a new scene starts, you remember
that character is coming in with all the history of
everything that just happened to that character before. When you're
an actor. That's what you're reviewing before you go into
the you're walking into the set, your head is going,
what's the last time I saw this person? Where did
they say to me? How did I react? What happened
(40:07):
since then? What a new information I learn? I'm walking
in the scene and I have something to say. But
it doesn't just happen when you walk out and see
your lines. The whole prime event value going on there.
Audiences when they watch it, they go, oh, this person
has always got coming in with something. It's like it's
because they're doing their work. Yeah, and you have to
have the space to be able to do that in
(40:27):
an undistracted space like that. It's super important that That's
probably why I think it's one of the reasons why
artists get bad rap as being really fussy sometimes because
you can be in a moment where you're really trying
to give the prepare to give the most authentic performance
so that the audience can have the most authentic experience.
(40:48):
And uh, if you if you get annoyed with someone
who's bouncing around the set shit chit chatting, or you know,
just being super distracting, or if somebody who's standing next
to you and just gossiping or trying to rope you
to something and if you, you know, in your zone,
go I can't. I can't deal with that right now,
can we? You know, because it's so hard to stay
focused and also turn to someone and go into a
(41:11):
completely different zone of Hey, listen, um, I'm just trying
to focus right now on my work, and I totally
respect that you want to have this conversation. Would you
mind doing it somewhere else? Like my brain? It's really
hard for me to maintain, um, but yeah, but to
maintain that duel like I don't know how to stay
(41:32):
and I can't stay in my zone. I have to
come out of my zone in order to take care
of someone else's problem and then try and find my
way back into my zone. And that's really hard joy
to work with. I can't believe she asked me not
to talk about my new gardening on my back. Was
in the middle of toner about my beats being planted,
(41:53):
and she said, I'm safe, right, No, but I wanted
to bring your beat. But person, I think on the set,
you know, everyone has an onset demeanor, right, everyone, Like
we're sitting in chairs, we're yakking away where the rehearsing
or we're talking. We're chatting about whatever. We're sitting in
our in our director chairs waiting to go and shoot
(42:14):
a scene them while chiming around. There was one person
who's my favorite person I've ever worked with, and her
name is I'll name some of her movies. You told
me who it is. She is in um uh, the
Daniel day Lewis movie, but Lincoln, Okay, she was in
Fried Green Tomatoes, Tender Mercies, Mary Stuart Masterson, Sally Field,
(42:37):
Sally Field, Oh my god, favorite onset demeanors. Sally comes
with her own chair and a bag, and she's fully,
fully rehearsed, knows not only her lines, but everybody's lines.
She's the smartest person in the room. She sits down
and she just needle points all day and listens in
(43:05):
the minutes churn down and she's amazing. It's like one
of those things where she doesn't mean even when she's
not in the scene, she's still there needle. You worked
with her on Soap Dish, one of my favorite movies,
very funny movie, very funny movie was that the Jim
Doing likeness from Father Corey told me, your experience to
(43:26):
the soap kitchen. You are right, and I'm my shirts
off and I'm glistening. Oh so good. I love that.
You know who else on our show sounds very similar
to that. Actually, Sharon Lawrence is stellar at that. She
is a dynamite actress and also can really manage um.
(43:49):
She's just said, it's such a Southern genteel woman. She
knows how to manage every personality around her. I love
her too. She's we talked to was it the party
that you had? It goes from Christmas point Christmas party. Yeah,
she was just you know, we talked about you and
she's like she gets what I get. Sweet, thank you. Yeah,
(44:11):
It's it's an interesting thing to be an artist in
this in this world. Games had a very sort of
solo alone vibe in this episode, suffering by himself, kind
of like you know, people come in and go, but
then nobody stays with him. Yeah, he's kind of I
really like the way they designed that to make him
(44:33):
kind of like a man alone, you know what I mean.
That's a great point. I hadn't thought about that. I
really like that too, because all we've seen of him
is with Lucas in the last few episodes where um
or or dealing with stuff with Dan, And this was
the first time even the dinner table or the barbecue
table that Dan set out set out flowers. Apparently. I
(44:54):
was like, Wow, the lavender's out on the table. Okay, Dan,
give me a second life back. What are you trying
to turn on? Just popped off? Oh yeah, go ahead,
She'll turn out his life. Um. But I was gonna say,
well you do that that? Uh? I love seeing even
(45:14):
though he had that moment with Dan over the barbecue. Uh,
horrible about Dan telling him about Deb's addiction was just
such a bad parenting moment. But um, I think you're right.
I love seeing that. Giving James the opportunity to just wrestle,
have Nathan wrestle with himself and his own issues rather
(45:36):
than wrestling with everyone else's interpretation of Nathan's issues. He
just had to be alone with himself. Yeah, really nice.
I liked it too. Can we talk about Lee and Catherine?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I love it. Go ahead. She
threw herself at him, right. It's it's a nice place
(45:57):
for him to be at as a as a as
a as a care you know, to have this charming,
sweet fun southern you know, full of life girl, like
make him number one, and it's kind of nice to
see him kind of like like just seeping that. Yeah. Yeah,
I love Mouth. We all love Mouth. He's our He's
(46:18):
our favorite go to anytime guy. You know, like he's
always there for you, he's always reliable. Um, but we're
gonna go, oh he is. Yeah, that's right. You know
where We're going to go to listener questions. But before
we do, in the interest of the the book ends
(46:39):
that we talked about and the theme of this episode,
the two tragedies in life. At the end of the episode,
Mouth disagrees. Speaking of Mouth, he disagrees and says, no,
it's you know, whoever, whoever. George Bernard Shaw was never
kissed Derika Marsh Right, but the sentiment of gaining your
(47:02):
heart's desire isn't a tragedy. Uh. I'm curious as to
what you think about that quote. I think George Burroshaw
was a genius, and I think he's right. I do absolutely.
I mean, you must, you must feel the same way.
I mean, I've never suffered more than when I'm in love. Yes,
(47:27):
you know what I mean, I can handle in tragedy
but when I'm in love everything, it's like magnified. Yes,
that's true. But also you know what made me think
of that gaining the desire of your heart there is
a tragedy in it because then you've got it and
now what Now you have to find something else. It's
(47:48):
like the death of the chase when you spent when
you spend so long chasing a desire. Once you once
you have it, uh, it's it's scary. It's because it's like, well,
what do I do now? Now I have it? And
let's hear the child of an alcoholic and you think
that you don't deserve it, and so it's going to
(48:09):
leave you at one point. You've better work really hard
to keep it interesting, you know, um, you know, tension,
to prove you're worthy of keeping that low. Oh wow, right, yeah,
oh that's interesting. I don't I don't know that I
feel that way. I think I do have a Uh
(48:31):
I love the chase, and then once I catch it,
there's a little part of me and it's anything. It's
not love necessarily, but but professional things projects anything. It's
like once you once you get it, then it's I
think it's kind of a human nature thing. Just okay,
now what I'm going to move on to something else.
And that's why we is it. The tragedy is that
(48:54):
we keep climbing, We keep reaching for the next thing
and the next thing and the next thing, thinking we're
gonna arrive somewhere, but we never do what's above love?
What are you? What are you going to reach for
about love? Like? What is there above that? Like how
can you reach for anything higher than that? Yeah, but
then you get into the whole esoteric conversation of what
is love and like where you know, is love a choice?
And then the responsibilities Actually, let me take that, let
(49:21):
me take that. Let me just say this, and this
is a comes you have to quit. And when I
have a very special eleven year old, so we do
have these conversations, I tell him that it doesn't matter
necessarily because I always talk about, like, you know, this
pursuit of happiness by it that goes around, I'm not
believe it. I don't believe that happiness is something to pursue.
It's the byproduct of of finding yourself on your purpose.
(49:49):
Happiness is is kind of like it is the result
of something rather than a goal in itself and in
love as your as you said, it's like there is
definitely value in to want, just the words to want.
I want this, I want that job, I want that money,
I want that person, I want that acclaim to want
(50:10):
is a wonderful thing because it gives a lot of
a lot of direction and a lot of motivation, and
and But it's really that in itself that to want
part of the life is really what life is. To
get is not what life is, but to want is
you know what I mean? I do this reminds me
(50:32):
of something. My French hairdresser told me. This is perfect.
He said, I said, I'm hungry. I was sitting in
the chair. I said I'm hungry and he said, so well,
I don't know. I was thinking of ordering some food.
He said, you will be done and we'll be done
(50:52):
in about an hour. Are you fine? You know you
do swait And I was like, well, but I'm hungry.
He goes, It's okay to be hungry. That's that's his life.
It's it's just a feeling that exists. You just are hungry.
So what's if you're unhappy? So what you would be
happy again? Just live through the hunger, live through the
(51:15):
unhappiness and you will be fed and you will be
happy again. This is the French way of life, he says,
It's okay to be hungry. This is so perfect. We
were in Paris, not five four or five days ago.
We've gotten the kids in the car, Sammy's driving. We're
going to a restaurant. It's ten minutes away. We're four
(51:35):
minutes into the drive, and in the bat seat, I hear,
can we just going at that restaurant? I'm hungry? What
about that pizza place right there? And Sammy's got a
place for us. He's what he loves in Paris is
my wife. He knows what we're going, and he's like,
we're six minutes away, yes, but I'm hungry. And I
(51:55):
was like thinking to myself, is he going to like
throw his plans away for us? But it was like
this is so We had such a passive aggressive fight
in the car, you and I. By the way, it
wasn't six it wasn't four minutes in You said, I
was like, at least long, are not gonna be in
the car for like a half an hour? How long's
a ride? You said? Ten minutes? And then twenty minutes later,
(52:16):
I'm in the car, like, are we still there? And
he says another ten minutes and then I started to
have the monster come out, my angry monster. But at
the end of the day, you're right, at the end
of the day, it's okay to exist in the feelings
that you're feeling because they will pass and something new
will come along. That's all the feelings are. Yeah, they
(52:37):
never stay. Yeah. I wish we could tell Peyton and Chad, Peyton, Peyton,
Lucas and Brooke and Haley and Nathan that in this
episode and Karen, but we can't. We'll have to wait
until next week where Sophia and me. We'll have a
special guest, Miss Lindsey mckehon. Very excited for that. So
(53:06):
we're gonna have a couple of listener questions and we'll
do a spin a wheel and we'll say goodbye. The
first listener question, Paul, do you if your chat open?
Fire away? Okay, you read the first one, the Triana
go ahead. I have always wondered how they decorate the
homes with family pictures. Do they have a photo shoot
before the episode had stoned? Also, did they use your
real baby pictures or use random people They do both.
(53:29):
They do both. Yeah, I've had every new job I have.
When if if I'm in the house they asked me to,
I usually pawn it off to my mom. I usually
send the email to my mom and I'm like, can
you send them baby pictures of mean please? Are like
family photos. Yeah, but they also throw us in like
clothes from another period in time in our lives. And
then they don't. Maybe they photoshop our faces sometimes, remember like,
(53:52):
oh yeah, yeah, definitely lots of photoshopping happening. Yeah. Our
next question comes from Frank. How does it work when
someone who is directing the episode is also in it,
like Paul with episode seventeen. Um, I've done this too.
I don't like this at all. I do not like
(54:13):
directing an episode that I'm in. I would much prefer
just to sit back and because it's just so hard
to be in the moment of the scene. I'm so
fully in the moment as an actor that to have
to not be to have to be watching the other
actor in the scene and thinking of notes to give
them while we're actually just trying to do a scene.
It's very hard for me. How do you feel, Um,
(54:36):
it's different from me. You know, I'm you know, I
I set it up. Um, I'd like to see, you know,
the framing. So I want to see somebody kind of
walk through the paces where we're going to be, what
the camera's gonna see as it goes along. And once
I'm comfortable with what the framing is, you know, Um,
I trust usually we always had and we had very
good people. In fact, our dps all directed, yes, so
(54:59):
they're there there. Um, their insight was very valuable and
and I like to lean on people that I trust.
I've actually worked with a lot of people that I
don't trust their opinion. But on One Tree Hill, all
of the technical crew was fantastic, and I trusted Peter
and and and you know, and and everybody that was
was working with. So yeah, I didn't even a problem
(55:21):
when I started getting into a scene and and acting. Um,
you know, it's like I'm I'm one of those I'm
one of those fortune kind of people where I kind
of I'm not too overly harder on myself, you know
what I mean, My my my outside vision of myself
doesn't overpower my you know, my wanting to be present
(55:42):
for that other actor that's I make that a priority.
So a lot of times I'm not sure how it
went because I kind of let it go and then
I trust that, you know, Peter Costo will go great man,
move on. But how do you give another actor that
you're in the scene with a note? Well, usually you've
done the rehearsal right here and you'll kind of know
what they're going to be throwing out there. Yeah, and
(56:05):
eating major is going to be addressed in that. But
if they're if they're having issues, nuanced issues generally, you
know this, you know, most actors kind of know when
they've you know, kind of not being able to hit
there what they want, what they needed to hit to
make the scene work. And you know, I think I
think especially on that show where it wasn't terribly sophisticated,
(56:27):
you know, yeah, that's true, straightforward, good training ground. Okay,
so guys, we're going to spin a wheel here and Paul,
this is our every every episode we do most likely
to like a yearbook. So who is most like who?
Which character in which real life person is most likely
to go ahead and read it for us? Please become
(56:49):
a detective? Oh gosh, well Dan would be Yes, she's
such a super sleuth. Absolutely, we didn't even talk about
her on this episode. I know she was so charmingsh
she her heart out there, and I was gonna bring
it up a couple of times, and we kept getting
(57:10):
other stuff that she you know, the one look away
in the car when she was you know, when she
was kind of like and I know you like Peyton
and then you look away and they zurrat focused her
and you just want to put yeah, we we needed
her in this episode actually, just to I mean, there
was so much weight and sadness. Her floating in and
(57:30):
out of so great with Tyler, isn't she. Yes, she's funny. Yes,
I wonder those two characters ever did end up in
bed together. That would have been really funny. Oh you
know what if they didn't missed opportunity, because those guys
are Yeah, for me, they're the two funniest people on
the show. For sure. They're very very funny. Yes, I
love actually really I loved you to. Her energy was
(57:54):
so good in that episode. You know. The one thing
I was gonna say, also, we got a quickly point
of this. This was a very strong voice of the
opening where the three girls talked about what's inside their minds.
I wasn't in the opening, No, that they were reading, Um,
they were. They were reading the quote and then they
were talking. It was like Hilary Sophia and then um.
(58:16):
But we were hearing inside their minds for as we
got into and I thought, you know, I love that
our show gave that privilege to us as an audience. Right, yeah, like,
here's here's the thoughts of Because we always talked about
what's the influence of the show on young people, here's
young people talking. You know, this is what my Emry
noses is happening. I thought that was a nice way
(58:36):
to make a connection with your audience. Yeah. I think
so too. I love that. I love that they allowed
us to take over the monologue that previously had only
been Lucas is. Yeah, it's really nice. Well, guys, thank
you for joining us for this very special episode. Paul.
You were awesome. I love love chatting with you always. Um,
(59:01):
next time, we'll do it later with wine dinner at Okay, Hey, everybody,
come on back next week. We're gonna be watching the
season finale, Season two finale number twenty three, the Lever's Dance,
and we will pull a scenario from the virtual most
likely too hat See you later. Hey, thanks for listening.
(59:24):
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also
follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H.
Or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio
dot com. See you next time. We are all about
that high school drama. Girl, Drama Girl, all about them
high school queens. We'll take you for a ride at
our comic girl cheering for the right drama queens up
(59:49):
girl fashion, but you'll tough. Girl. You can sit with us.
Girl Drama Queens, Drama, Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama,
Queens
First of all, you don't know me. Were all about
that high school drama, Girl Drama Girl, all about them
high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in
our comic Girl Cheering for the drama Queens Girl Fashion,
but you'll tough, girl, you could sit with us Girl Drama, Queens, Drama,
Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama Queens. Hey, sports fans,
(00:28):
we are back for another edition of Drama Queens, and
this one we are talking about episode twenty two in
season two, The Tide That Left and Never Came Back
Air date two thousand and five. Uh, here's what happens
in this episode. Um, Hillary cries a lot, Chad does
a really nice job of being very sincere, and uh
(00:49):
brand Greenberg is a full teen heartthrob. But really, it's
part one of season two finale and we have Jimmy
eat World, Lucas and Brook head to New York for
an overnight stay of Haley. Peyton and Jake's relationship hits
another bump in the road because if Nikki and Dan
is still out to destroy Karen, he's ruining our relationship
with Andy. And meanwhile, Andy's trying to find out what
(01:10):
Dan is hiding in his office. Bum bum, and Nathan's
got a really big decision to make about high Flyers
and his family. If you're wondering why it sounds a
little quiet here, it's because I am the only drama
queen and the only wine in the studio today. But
never fear, we have an awesome, awesome guest today, one
of my dearest dearest friends, uh who you may recognize
(01:35):
Maybe you might recognize him. Um. He was raised in Cologna,
British Columbia, as the son of an ice hockey player.
But he started his acting career on a soap opera
called Santa Barbara. And then he did Beverly Hills nine
O two and oh, and then he did soap Dish.
This guy was even in the notebook Ladies and Gentlemen,
A drama king in his own right, My dear friend,
(01:57):
Paul Johansson, Hello, Paul King. That's just because we share
our lives spartally, we know our dramas right, Drama king
and queen for sure. Oh my goodness, Wait, what did
it feel like to watch this episode back? I mean,
how long has it been since you've watched an episode
except for the one did you watch one before you did?
Our live episode? I have to admit I didn't watch it.
(02:19):
I watched part of it, No, I did. I watched
part of some of it because we discussed it. But
to really sit and just take it all in after yeah,
the season finale. Right, Yeah, it's been it's been a
long time. How did that feel? You know? Actually, um,
there's a lot of the you know, the world has
(02:40):
turned TV right. All the great filmmakers are making TV
shows now, all the big actors are big stars. Were like, oh,
they'll never do TV. They're all TV. It's all changed.
It's a huge different world out there. And so but
to go and see the simpleness and the sweetness, and
we were talking about it during the pot the episode
(03:03):
we're watching together, there was something really charming and and
the way that our creators made music the backbone of
our show. Yeah, give it a give it a kind
of like a poetry about it, don't you think? I am?
I totally think so. I felt like, Um, they introduced
me to a lot of bands that I didn't know about. Um,
I guess because I was never really into the modern
(03:24):
trendy music scene. I was always such like an old
hippie with music and listening to Carol King in my
room and Billy Joel and so it was really fun
to be able to hear what all the new bands
were and be introduced all this new talent um and
clearly Jimmy Eat World at the time was a really
big deal and got bigger. Um, so that was really fun.
(03:45):
Um do I sh'll have something to do with a
little bit bump in their careers? I think it did.
I mean I don't. I would love to ask them,
but uh, it had to have. I mean, the show
was huge at the time. Season two was when it
really started to lift off, Which is crazy because we've
been saying this whole time that it's was such a
boring season, like or just it's not boring, but kind
(04:05):
of a terrible season. It was just so over the
top and so many things that we didn't love. But um, yeah, no,
I you know what it reminds me when I you've mentioned,
um Santa Barbara, like nobody yes back in the day
is doing soap operas. The producer used to walk through
the set before everything going, Remember tension, everybody tension, like
(04:27):
they wanted conflict conflict. Every scene has that conflict, And
so I was watching this episode that was like, going,
this is kind of the formula for keeping people interested. Yeah, conflict,
and this episode is rife with conflict. It's non stop.
I mean, it was a finale, So I think that's
fair enough. I wouldn't have said this ten years ago
(04:48):
when I watched if I watched this episode, which I
think I did. But my favorite storyline in this episode
I really liked Jake and Hillary Store. I thought there
was something. I mean, she was literally sobbing in every scene,
every scene. I wish she was here right now because
she would have so many fun things to say about that.
(05:11):
But you know, he's got you know now that I'm
a single dad, Yeah, and I know and you're you know,
we both know what it's like to raise, you know,
a little one in in the in the in the
craziness of of having you know, family, cord and all
that kind of stuff, you know, and you see you know,
his you know, I just see a real kind of
(05:33):
honor about the way that he approached it, you know
what I mean, he's fighting hard, but he's but he's
but he's he's still got this great and I love
his love for his daughter, that it's it's more than
his love for even Peyton kind of be a great parent,
you kind of love with your kids more than your partner.
I don't know, you know what I actually have. I've
(05:54):
heard different sides on that, and I'm very curious about, Well,
that's something that actually is worth talking about because as
a parent, I mean, I'm a single mom, so I
don't I don't. I can't speak from experience on this,
but it does seem to me that in order to
give your child the stability that a child needs, that
making your partner the most important person in the the
(06:18):
family um to you and then the children come second
kind of eliminates an element of codependence with your child.
That you know, the child knows their place in the
structure of the family and their place in the world,
rather than feeling like they might be above the other parent.
That is a beautiful interpretation. I've never heard of put
(06:40):
that way before. But I really need to sit with
that and ponder that. I love it. Like what I
would submit to you would be one is that I
think they may be different loves, you know, and that
and the second part would be that um I've never
experienced either. I've come first before. It's usually know, my
(07:02):
career comes first. You know this is my favorite car.
You're never driving it? All right? Yeah, no, I've I
don't think i've ever I've never experienced that either. Um,
not my childhood, but first ever, ever, ever in someone's life, like,
you've never been you are my priority. I'm going to
make sure that this is the most pore thing to
me and you've never been made to feel that way. Um,
(07:22):
I don't. I think I have a couple of with
Like maybe I can think of maybe one or maybe
two boyfriends that I felt that way with, but it
always came with baggage of like there was actually a
neediness underneath it, where by them making me the priority,
it felt like they were. That was my follow up question.
(07:45):
Yeah it was. It was more about them than it right,
it was more about them than it was about me.
So so I think, No, I don't think I can
see why it's hard. It's hard for us as men
to know I'm gonna make you first. Well, if I
make a first, you won't respect me. So okay, I'm
gonna she is first, but I'm going to let her
know that I'm gonna act like you know, I'm not
(08:06):
gonna go with the guys tonight, you know, right. I
don't know if it's that it's that I wouldn't respect
it or don't respect it. I think it's just that
I don't want there to be any guile about it.
I don't want there to be any like like you're
trying to get something out of it by being the
Knight in Shining Armor. Like it's the quiet honor that
(08:27):
you actually talk about a lot, Paul, in your life
and the way that you function in your life, with
your relationships and with your son and with your work,
and there's a there's an internal honor code that and
that I think is what I'm looking for in the
context of what we're talking about, where it's not just um,
hey look at me, I'm then I in tchining armor. Okay,
(08:47):
now give me something for it. It's just a like
a genuine offering of you're my priority, and I don't
need you to give anything any back, because then I
will give above and beyond. But if I sense that
there's diyal, it freaks me out and I kind of
back off. Let me ask you a question about that
when you feel you're about to step over that line
(09:10):
of that code, ever, because they know you and I
have a lot of similarities with it. Yeah, it's almost
like an alarm is ringing inside of You're going, you're not.
This isn't who you are, this isn't. But even if
it's easy, fine, and you test that code sometimes even
if it's what say again, even if it's it's an
easy step over the line, like something you know that
you you like. It's a terrible example, but like taking
(09:33):
a job just for the money when you know that
it's like something you shouldn't be doing because your heart's
taking to be in it. Right. I know a lot
of people may not may not be able to understand that,
but from an artist point of view, that that's almost
like selling your soul and it's hameful, but we've all
kind of gone there, and you what you do is
you try not to be too hard in yourself, yeah,
and say, you know, I'm you know, it's like I've
(09:55):
got to be able to forgive myself for that moment
because there's a bigger picture if I can, if I
can really live the good life that I want to
live in, and most of all, wake up and look
in the mirror and not be disappointed, then everything else
will be okay. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah,
there has to be that internal honor code. And and
as artists, I think we as actors particularly, I guess,
(10:17):
we become professional bullshit detectors in a lot of ways,
and that, you know, bleeds into our relationships because I
know I do. My alarms all go crazy. Yeah, if
I feel like somebody's not being real with me, and
then I can just pick and pick and pick um.
But but bring it back to the kids, which is
(10:39):
that you know, I have never been I haven't been
in a relationship long enough with my romantic relationship long
enough while I've had my daughter to be able to
say that this theory works. But in theory, it does
seem to make sense to me, and I appreciate what
Jake does. If there was if there was a say,
(11:00):
here's the here's the components that I need to be
in a relationship, like you have to be attracted to
of course you have to respect them, yes, and you
have to have similar long term goals yea, values and
long term goals. And I guess, yeah, else I'm missing
on that. No, I think, I think that's it. Values
is a huge one. And and then yeah, long term goals,
(11:22):
I think, well, long term goals changed. I mean the
long term goals I think I had when I was
twenty are very different than what I have now. For me,
it was only I just said to be traffic. That
was I think, really that was a cut off. How
many years did you live like that as a as
a as a handsome acting bachelor like party man out
(11:43):
there you had access to everything, I mean everything at
your feet, at your disposal. How long did you live
your life that way before you started to go, Okay,
I need a shift now. My dating life is an
HBO special. It is. It is a It is a
complicated long I mean I did a girl that we
were followed by the CIA one time. I did what Yeah,
(12:06):
I diated a girl who was involved in a very
big political scandal back in like the late nineteen um
and uh and you know he's quite a famous person.
And then you know, you know who else I've dated.
It's been very interesting. But you know I didn't. I
came from a small town, you said at the beginning
of the thing. From Cologna, British Columbia, beautiful little Twasia,
(12:29):
lake Town in in Canada, which and and you know,
and you like you you can from New Jersey and
now we you meet all these people that everyone has
this idea what they are. Nobody, nobody is like what
they perceived to be in there in the public persona.
Everybody's way more complicated, nuanced and deferent. I totally agree
(12:52):
with that. It's so hard to just take one glance
or no a character or no, you know, read some
interviews or whatever, see some interviews and feel like you
really have a whole rounded picture. When Jake was on
his motorcycle or you're like, would you say he said
he's such a teen heart throb, so that there you go,
see the image of a young, handsome, honorable single man
(13:17):
fighting for your hair. Los. I know, thanks, I'm having fun.
He's got the James Dean look over his shoulders, not
looking at that. He's gotta look over his shoulder over
it's gotta been going on. And you go, and you know,
I guess I could hear on the other side you sweating.
I can hear. And I was like, going, yeah, okay,
I get it. There's the image. But that sort of
plays into our thing. It's like, this is the presentation,
(13:41):
but we know he's goofy and lovable and intelligent and
funny and fun and like it's he's not just like
deep and tortured. He's you know, I mean, so we
get these fragments, you get glimpses, glimpses. Well, I loved
(14:04):
the glimpses we got of him and Hillary. I agreed
they did a really nice job and they had a
great storyline. And I also really liked to chat in
this episode a lot. I thought he was really sincere,
you know, being their moments. Yeah, I thought so too.
I thought he didn't stretch, he wasn't pushing hard. It
was very natural. I agree with you. I think he
(14:25):
was very good in Yeah, really since here and just
kind of the thread between all this all the story
you questioned the moment when he sits and judges Haley
for playing around. She wasn't it wasn't it wasn't sexual
in contest with you and and oh yeah, but come on,
he hasn't seen her in ages, Like the first time
he shows up to see her and she's like on
(14:46):
a couch, you know, mess wrestling with this guy. I
don't know. I get that he was annoying, giggling, and
then he's passing judgment. I was like, going, come on,
you know, yeah too, that's real. It is. And one
of the things about going back and watching this show, UM,
it's been fun to realize where we are now in
(15:10):
our maturity and our understanding of the gray areas of
life and how nothing is exactly what it seems. And
you know, there's just so many facets to a person
and their experiences, and when you're in high school or
when you're in your early twenties like we were when
we were filming it, UM, and you know, then there
(15:30):
you have so much judgment and the world seems much
more black and white. And I think you and I
see that with our kids too, because I know Maria's
like that the things are very black and white and
trying to explain, well, there's gray areas here. I mean,
I know, Quentn you're laughing, go ahead, especially as communists.
I'm this way, Dad, I'm like, yeah, tell me in
five years what you are. You know, it's funny. I
(15:53):
was thinking about what you're saying about the what we
our perception of people too, was like when I was
in high school. I knew what my my future wife
was gonna be. She was gonna be speak French and
where Chanelle all the time, and she was gonna be
speak nine languages and you know, have a PhD and philosophy,
and she's gonna love me and we're gonna be together
for a God, that's such a high box, right, and
(16:16):
then you know liketies and fifties just of a pulse.
It's like, literally, I'm gonna narrow it down way small. Right.
Oh god, now, um I was I'm looking at my
notes here because there was so there was so much
drama in this episode. For a second. Yeah, let's talk
(16:41):
about Dan because what the hell was that with Karen?
Oh my god, are you going to the kiss right away?
To go? Okay, we can build up to it. Go ahead. Well,
I just thought that, you know, I just see Okay,
First off, there was something early on with you, right,
we had a little thing there, right that it was
that that was a flashback when you brought me annulment papers.
(17:03):
That's okay, okay, that sets up this finale definitely, right,
And that's the papers that you gave Lucas right to
give it to him. Yeah, because you I think you've
forged Nathan's signature or something, but you gave me the
paperwork and told me that Nathan had signed it, and
so I believed you. How many times do people have
(17:24):
to be proven wrong by believing Dan and finding out
that he's just lying? What's that old adage again? It's
like when people show you who they are, believe him. Yeah,
but you know, I gotta be honest with you. Um,
even though I'm the actor playing the part. Um, I
(17:44):
really enjoyed Dan. I enjoyed when he came on. I went, Okay,
something's gonna happen. Yeah, that's a nice feeling, you know
what I mean? Yeah? Is that one of your favorite
things about playing Dan? Or playing a character that is
so um, instigating of things or I don't know, help
me with my vocabulary, because this is you're so like.
(18:07):
This is why you and our friends your instincts as
an artist are always so like like perfect. It's like,
I love talking because it Jore now with us. We know.
I know that you cut to stuff. When Karen comes
in and she's mad, she's like spitting fire man. You know,
she's Satan's mistress at the moment, and she comes in.
(18:29):
If you the first cut to me sitting in the chair,
I see her in my and immediately I started to go,
got her because peck somebody? And then my character smiling
because he knows I got her. Oh, why would he
do anything unless he go to reaction? Everything is for
a reaction. And that was the fun part of playing down,
was I get to make people react. Yes, son, Yes,
(18:54):
that's what that's the fun part about. Any anyone will
tell you playing a villain is fun mhm, because you
get to get a reaction out of people. Everything that
you do is very forward movement. Um, and it's it's
got a lot of energy behind it. It's really fun.
But then you don't play. You don't, you don't, you don't,
you don't want to. The really interesting and nuance to that,
(19:15):
which makes it really interesting is once you've got them,
is you play opposite their energy when they come in
the room. Yes, she's moving and I'm very still. Yeah,
and she's moving, I'm very still. It's like you want
and make them. Oh god, it's a classic. I mean,
I know you and I both have experienced with narcissists
in different areas in our life, and um, I it's that,
(19:38):
but that is so classic. That's what they do. They
pick at you and pick at you, and they do
enough things to where you explode because you're a normal
human being with a normal reaction. And then they turn
around and go, look how crazy you are? Oh you
really need help. Yeah, yeah, I know it's scary, but
you knew that, and you know, you knew how to
(20:00):
had those layers to dan, which I love. You know.
It's funny because you know, I mean, you know, there's
no specifics in this, because I don't think of course,
because we pull a lot of our you know, our
our work off of not one person, but just a
plethora of life experience. Absolutely, But I will say that
the people that have irritated me, that have got under
(20:21):
my skin the most are the ones that I I,
against my better nature, still trusted, like yeah, because they
weren't good. They were like, you know, supportive and loving
and this and this, But something inside of me was going, yeah,
it doesn't feel authentic, but I still wanted to give
(20:42):
the benefit the doubt. Yeah, what is that gut feeling?
It's hard to get in touch with your gut sometimes
if you I spent a lot of years of my
life believing that my instincts were bad and and and
um it just messed up like they was something wrong
with my instincts, and so I needed to trust other
(21:03):
people's instincts for me. And I spent a lot of
time handing out my autonomy to other people that I trusted.
Some people were lovely people that I trusted, and some
people did terrible things to me because I trusted them,
and um, I shouldn't have. But at the end of
the day, that's my fault for not not um oh,
(21:25):
I guess. I mean, you're a kid when I was,
especially when you're young. You know, those things get taught
to you in such a strange ways. But um, at
the end of the day, it is our responsibility to
learn how to come out of that and and trust
that nobody knows better for us than us. We're the
only people that have our gut. We're the only people
(21:46):
living our lives. And you know, walking through life, not
taking chances, not not risking, trusting the wrong people is
no way to live. So I think you kind of
have to do that. You have to experiment with that.
These are the great takeaways from our show, though, imagine
our audience watches all these scenarios. In this episode, there
(22:07):
was fifty different scenarios of people be manipulated or feeling
bad or situation is not going the way you wanted
them to, and it was about how people reacting to them.
And so what all of our fans come up to
us at conventions on the street and they want to
talk about the show and they want to hear about it.
You know, you realize that they're living through these characters
(22:28):
and they're bringing in their own life experiences and going
and it helps in a way. And I don't mean
like to educate, but the more you see it going
bad and the more you see it going good, more
you see and help people react to situations, the more
that you can say, oh, this is why I need
to watch the show because it gives me at least
some sort of um um confirmation that I'm not crazy
(22:51):
and that I'm not the bad person or I'm not
doing anything wrong. Life just happens, and it's how I'm
back to it and finds who I am. Yeah, I
totally agree with that. All. That's a really sweet way
of looking at the show too. I love that you said,
speaking of trust issues, you said. When we were watching
this episode, Lucas and Haley were laying in bed. They
(23:15):
were just, you know, it was a late night best friends,
just laying there, staring out at the moon shining in
the window and talking about as it does, and you know,
talking about life. And he says, I noticed you're not
wearing your wedding ring. And she says, it's not because
I don't love him, and it's not because of the
press tour of the record label. It's because I feel
(23:36):
like I don't deserve to. And you didn't buy it. No,
I didn't, And I think that's a really genuine So
tell okay, tell me what you think, Tell me what
why that bothered you something. We're good friends. You tell
me why you think I didn't buy and then I'll
tell you if you're right. You know me and I
want to see this is like, this is like that
(23:58):
you know what I said on the any game? They go,
how well do you know your part? Oh? Gosh, okay,
all right, um, okay, let's see. You felt like it
was a you felt like it was an evasive answer,
and uh, I think you were bothered by the fact
that she wasn't being completely honest. With herself. You felt
(24:22):
like she wasn't being honest with herself or with Lucas.
I think it also bothered you because I know you've
been lied to many times by women in your life,
and I'm sure that's built up a pattern. So I
wonder if maybe your immediate distrust of that answer it
was partly because you felt like you've been lied to
(24:43):
a lot. I don't know. You are, in my mind,
you know me better than anybody, and you answered it beautifully.
You are the money. Really, yeah, it was I was
listening to myself, a much prettier version of myself, and
(25:05):
so you thought the real answer maybe would be, uh,
I'm confused, I don't know what I want, and you
know you've got a better The first time when you
said that there was this, there was a bit of
dishonesty to herself about it. You know, I think that
she knows why she take it off, but admitting it
(25:25):
is to um is to um accountable. It would make
her too accountable for what she's really feeling, which is
what do you think? Which is like, I mean, not
what what's what's on the show, but what Paul Johnson
interprets those types of behad. But yes, that's what I'm asking, right, okay,
because I want to make sure there's definitely in it.
So my interpretation of that is like, I'm a good girl.
(25:49):
I'm I'm I'm never gonna cheat on my husband. I'm
never gonna put it out there that I'm available even
I'm still married, blah blah blah blah blah. But I'm
gonna pick off my ring and and tickle and you know,
my my best friend on the sofa gigglily giggli with
some sexual you know, vibes to it. But I'm medicine,
though I'm innicine. My feeling is, I'm a diehard romantic.
(26:11):
I always have been. I believe in love. I'm just
not very good at it. And my feeling is is
if I truly loved somebody, you would have to cut
my finger off before you give my wedding, and off
even after we divorced, because my love, like is immutable,
it is strong, and I believe in it. I believe
(26:33):
in that. I believe in marriage. I believe in that stuff.
I just wish that you know that there was like
you and I lived in a fairytale world where, like
you know, love could survive anything if it was real,
you know what I mean, But I can't. You know,
it's it's a it's a romantic vision of the world
that doesn't exist, and so it bothers me that it
doesn't exist. You know what I mean? Yes, I do
(26:56):
know what you mean, as would you say. It's not
a perfect answer, but it's mine. Yes, so that I
still just don't understand it though I don't understand mean,
I get generally what you're saying, but I don't quite
understand what you love. Does she still love? Yes? Does
she like? And he knows that she loves her? So
(27:18):
that's that's real. So that's all the ring means. Taking
the ring off is not like taking up ease deserve it.
Taking the ring off is saying, you know, I'm basically
saying unavailable. My heart is not taken by one person anymore.
That's what the simbolism to me meant. That's why I
would I call so it was like almost like us,
(27:39):
it's a way of deceiving yourself. That's really what you're doing,
is uh, notifying the world that you are available again,
and do you think any more? Love story was more
profound on this series one to real for ten or
nine years, that story, that was the love story of
the show. Yeah, it was my favorite one to watch.
(28:01):
And I was there when he proposed to you. I
shot that episode, Oh you did? Oh my gosh, Paul,
I forgot about that shot, the one where you guys were,
you know, falling off the bed leaving the voice message together.
And I mean, I loved shooting you guys together. So
I'm gonna I'm gonna bat back at that response. And
you're not totally wrong. Actually, Uh, in my opinion, based
(28:25):
on me being me as Haley listening to that response,
I wouldn't say you're totally wrong. But what I would
say is that, um, there's an element of feeling like
she doesn't deserve it because she knows that she hasn't
lived up to Nathan's expectations of her, and that she
(28:46):
has sort of allowed herself to open her heart to
the possibility of other people or someone else and maybe
the marriage ending and like that that would lead her
then to feeling that self loathing of I don't even
deserve this anyway, which it's kind of like a double
(29:06):
edged Is it a double edged sword? Is that the
right analogy? It's definitely. Um. Yeah, I mean I think
I've been in Can we joy? Can we love? Can
you love two men at the same time with two guys?
Like I don't know, you know what I mean, I
(29:27):
don't know. I know that I can't. Yeah, because I
know me now, after all these years, I know that
I can really love a present of the time. I
mean I could love people in different ways. Yeah, but
you know what I'm talking about. No, it's been It's hard.
There's always like if I'm really in love with someone,
I've I've done it where I've been in love with someone,
(29:48):
it's not working. And then I go out with other
people and Um, as much as I try, great as
they are, just I just can't. No, it's too hard. Yeah.
Um well, yeah was the was the like you know
we've commented on the the um Karen and Karen. Yeah,
(30:11):
I was going to go to them next, because that's
another another thing of of the tragedies of not to
not to Well, I should go onto this quote. The
quote was there two tragedies in life? This is the
quote of the episode. There are two tragedies in life. Yes,
to gain the desire of your heart or to lose
the desire of your heart and also to gain it.
(30:31):
So another loss here Karen and Andy. But I love
the two actors. I love them very much. I really
love them. The love that that felt forced a little
bit to me, It felt a little bit unearned in
terms of the way that it ended to me. What
(30:51):
do you mean because you because they just didn't feel
like they had enough history. That's that's really the crux
of the point. You capted immediately as as you do, Joy,
But are also is that I felt that, you know,
they maybe there was something edited out of the episode
that might have given us a little bit more to
Oh that's interesting, I mean yeah, I mean but also
(31:13):
you haven't been watching the last you know, twenty two
episodes and there, husband, come on, we know you don't
have time for that. You fancy that You've got so
much going on. That last line that he threw out
at her, Oh that was rough. That felt like it
didn't need to be said. What did he say? I
(31:34):
love you? I love you too? It was just seems
like it just isn't enough. Yeah, wow, ouch, that was rough. Um, yeah,
that was rough. But Karen had a Karen had a
big episode here. Oh she was when she came firing
in man she does she does that irish anger. Really
(31:58):
we were staying. In the other episode, her whole chest
went red in her face when she got angry with
Lucas for something a few episodes ago. It was great. Yeah,
And she's such a calm and kind person in life,
so it's great to see that her her her her
her as what they called her her paint, her canvas.
(32:21):
Her canvas is so beautiful with colors that she can
just raw them in, you know what I mean. There
was one moment in this that felt strange to me,
which was when after Andy leaves your office and you
throw the award through the new glass window, presumably the
new glass window. You know what budged me about it, Paul,
(32:44):
is that I just didn't believe Dan would ever give
anyone the satisfaction of knowing that they had piste him off. No,
I agree with you. I think there was some There
were some conversations on this set about it was an
un unmotivated overreaction to me, and I think that I
remember having the conversation. But what they wanted was the bookends,
(33:05):
the window back to back for you know, for the
drama of the finale, and so we had to get
there somewhere. My job is to give them what they
wish in a way that feels truthful, um, and if
it honestly um. Sometimes you can't fully achieve those things
when requested, even when you put your very best work
into it. You know, what was your experience like on
(33:33):
other shows with things like that, because I think in
TV that happens a lot where something is just on
a page or you know, a writer's room decided here's
what we need for the poetry of the of the episode,
and they're not taking into consideration that an actor you know,
may be able to bring to light reasons why it
would not be organic to do it that way. Um.
(33:56):
And yet it's television, it's not film. We don't have
time to rehearse and a just all those things. Do
you Was it was it, uh the similar on other
TV shows that you had been on that there was
a lot of that all the time, or was it
mostly on more on One Tree Hill or less? Or
you've had such a long career. There's two answers to
that that I would like to like to put forward.
(34:17):
First off, is because it's a really great question for
people that are listening, that have you know, ideas of
theater or acting whatever, and so they may run in
these situations. So it's nicely to talk about the process,
especially the collabor process on that level. On procedural shows,
you know, you know them all, there's so many of them.
There's no conversations. This is what's happening. The committee. The
(34:39):
committee has has just passed down the lecture and this
is what's happening to do because they shoot them fast,
you get out and you don't have debate. You know,
on that, it's it's happening um on. On a show
with a really hands on kind of showrunner like a
Matt Weiner who've worked for people like that, there's intelligent
(35:01):
conversations which help you understand the process is where they
got to and these aren't you know, these sort of
like quick decisions. They're very thought out and they have
meaningful collaborations without actors and you get to to figure
things out which which work and they will make adjustments
in order to make that work. But to turn it
(35:22):
all around from a directing point of view, as a director,
and you've worked with me as a director, if an
actor says to me, uh, this isn't. I'm not just
doesn't feel or good. I feel like I'm I'm taking
this to me. That is like the death of anything
I ever want filmed. Yeah, the same way, you know,
Yeah you are. And I remember one time, you know,
(35:42):
you and I were working on a scene and you
were supposed to what you were supposed to get really
mad into something, and you said, I just feel like
I want to like wipe this table theme and smash everything,
and said, well do it, and you're like, I can't
do that, and you kind of stopped. Remember in your draft,
I can do it. I went yea And I said,
well then they'll have to clean up. And I said,
then they'll have to clean it over, Like that's no
(36:04):
disrespect to the but that's their job. Yeah, sure, we'll
have a job. Your job is to be truthful, and
our job is to give you the environment to be
truthful in Yes, you know, so you figure it out,
you know, Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, I remember, Yeah,
I remember on soaps there was there was such a
fast pace with that schedule, and I don't know if
(36:27):
they were shot differently in l A. Than they were
in New York, because did you guys do camera blocking,
like you went in and did like rehearsal blocking in
a blank room. Then you did camera blocking, and then
everybody shot. They had like a slot between one and
five that they would go in and shoot their scenes
in the afternoon. That's how we shout our total three
of those. We didn't have a rear. We had an
(36:48):
onset read through where the director and the producers would
walk through the set cold and the director would go,
this is where you stand, and then you over here.
Then you move over here, and it's literally paint lines
on the floor, so you wouldn't miss it, you know.
But then they always had it was four, you know what,
(37:10):
always three or four cameras going same time, and then
in the afternoon you'd block out your pieces and shoot
them and you usually do them twice, right, because there
were some soaps that would you would go in and
everything was done all at once, so you would go
in and do your blocking, then you would immediately do
camera blocking, and then you would shoot your scene. So
(37:30):
everybody just went in hair and makeup at different times,
but everything would happen at once, and I never liked
the idea of that. I'm glad we didn't do that.
Because we gave us time to process after our blocking rehearsal.
You'd have time to process before you went back to
camera blocking and said, wait, something feels wrong, something doesn't
feel right about this country. Hill was every director kind
(37:53):
of their own vibe, but we always kept the same
kind of formula, right you know, yeah, yeah, that was
that everybody. You would come in and get your makeup done.
You'd really just get to set and start. You'd rehearsed quickly.
There was a twenty minute break for camera blocking or
two hours, depending on depending on what was going on
(38:14):
that day, and then shoot we did among the fans
would have loved to have been in the in the
makeup room where all the gossip was going down and
we're talking about the weekends and who did wet and
wet and where and now, and it's like bonding and
friendships and people bringing in cookies. It was. It was fun.
(38:36):
It was There was also a lot of drama in
there and makeup trailer and I we've We've talked a
lot Hillary, Sophia and I on the show. I've talked
a lot about um. You know, there's just there's so
many so easy to have so many misunderstandings and and
it's so it is a place for gossip a lot
of the time. And something I can say that I've
noticed in this business is as time has gone on,
(39:01):
it's not like it used to be. In the hair
makeup trailer it's talking about someone behind their back or
gossip or you know where the whole trailer is just
like up in arms talking about something that's not happening anymore.
I haven't seen that on a set in a very
long time. Good. Yeah, So, I don't know, it's just tracking.
And a lot of times I would wear headphones because
(39:22):
I just couldn't hear. I have to go do a
scene with somebody, and I'm finding all these things out
about them that have nothing to do with my scene,
and I really want to be focused on the work,
preparing my performance and preparing mental place for that character
you're walking into the scene. You know this whole thing
that people um one thing that is always lacking in
conversations about watching shows. When you watch neib to watch
(39:45):
TV show UM and a new scene starts, you remember
that character is coming in with all the history of
everything that just happened to that character before. When you're
an actor. That's what you're reviewing before you go into
the you're walking into the set, your head is going,
what's the last time I saw this person? Where did
they say to me? How did I react? What happened
(40:07):
since then? What a new information I learn? I'm walking
in the scene and I have something to say. But
it doesn't just happen when you walk out and see
your lines. The whole prime event value going on there.
Audiences when they watch it, they go, oh, this person
has always got coming in with something. It's like it's
because they're doing their work. Yeah, and you have to
have the space to be able to do that in
(40:27):
an undistracted space like that. It's super important that That's
probably why I think it's one of the reasons why
artists get bad rap as being really fussy sometimes because
you can be in a moment where you're really trying
to give the prepare to give the most authentic performance
so that the audience can have the most authentic experience.
(40:48):
And uh, if you if you get annoyed with someone
who's bouncing around the set shit chit chatting, or you know,
just being super distracting, or if somebody who's standing next
to you and just gossiping or trying to rope you
to something and if you, you know, in your zone,
go I can't. I can't deal with that right now,
can we? You know, because it's so hard to stay
focused and also turn to someone and go into a
(41:11):
completely different zone of Hey, listen, um, I'm just trying
to focus right now on my work, and I totally
respect that you want to have this conversation. Would you
mind doing it somewhere else? Like my brain? It's really
hard for me to maintain, um, but yeah, but to
maintain that duel like I don't know how to stay
(41:32):
and I can't stay in my zone. I have to
come out of my zone in order to take care
of someone else's problem and then try and find my
way back into my zone. And that's really hard joy
to work with. I can't believe she asked me not
to talk about my new gardening on my back. Was
in the middle of toner about my beats being planted,
(41:53):
and she said, I'm safe, right, No, but I wanted
to bring your beat. But person, I think on the set,
you know, everyone has an onset demeanor, right, everyone, Like
we're sitting in chairs, we're yakking away where the rehearsing
or we're talking. We're chatting about whatever. We're sitting in
our in our director chairs waiting to go and shoot
(42:14):
a scene them while chiming around. There was one person
who's my favorite person I've ever worked with, and her
name is I'll name some of her movies. You told
me who it is. She is in um uh, the
Daniel day Lewis movie, but Lincoln, Okay, she was in
Fried Green Tomatoes, Tender Mercies, Mary Stuart Masterson, Sally Field,
(42:37):
Sally Field, Oh my god, favorite onset demeanors. Sally comes
with her own chair and a bag, and she's fully,
fully rehearsed, knows not only her lines, but everybody's lines.
She's the smartest person in the room. She sits down
and she just needle points all day and listens in
(43:05):
the minutes churn down and she's amazing. It's like one
of those things where she doesn't mean even when she's
not in the scene, she's still there needle. You worked
with her on Soap Dish, one of my favorite movies,
very funny movie, very funny movie was that the Jim
Doing likeness from Father Corey told me, your experience to
(43:26):
the soap kitchen. You are right, and I'm my shirts
off and I'm glistening. Oh so good. I love that.
You know who else on our show sounds very similar
to that. Actually, Sharon Lawrence is stellar at that. She
is a dynamite actress and also can really manage um.
(43:49):
She's just said, it's such a Southern genteel woman. She
knows how to manage every personality around her. I love
her too. She's we talked to was it the party
that you had? It goes from Christmas point Christmas party. Yeah,
she was just you know, we talked about you and
she's like she gets what I get. Sweet, thank you. Yeah,
(44:11):
It's it's an interesting thing to be an artist in
this in this world. Games had a very sort of
solo alone vibe in this episode, suffering by himself, kind
of like you know, people come in and go, but
then nobody stays with him. Yeah, he's kind of I
really like the way they designed that to make him
(44:33):
kind of like a man alone, you know what I mean.
That's a great point. I hadn't thought about that. I
really like that too, because all we've seen of him
is with Lucas in the last few episodes where um
or or dealing with stuff with Dan, And this was
the first time even the dinner table or the barbecue
table that Dan set out set out flowers. Apparently. I
(44:54):
was like, Wow, the lavender's out on the table. Okay, Dan,
give me a second life back. What are you trying
to turn on? Just popped off? Oh yeah, go ahead,
She'll turn out his life. Um. But I was gonna say,
well you do that that? Uh? I love seeing even
(45:14):
though he had that moment with Dan over the barbecue. Uh,
horrible about Dan telling him about Deb's addiction was just
such a bad parenting moment. But um, I think you're right.
I love seeing that. Giving James the opportunity to just wrestle,
have Nathan wrestle with himself and his own issues rather
(45:36):
than wrestling with everyone else's interpretation of Nathan's issues. He
just had to be alone with himself. Yeah, really nice.
I liked it too. Can we talk about Lee and Catherine?
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I love it. Go ahead. She
threw herself at him, right. It's it's a nice place
(45:57):
for him to be at as a as a as
a as a care you know, to have this charming,
sweet fun southern you know, full of life girl, like
make him number one, and it's kind of nice to
see him kind of like like just seeping that. Yeah. Yeah,
I love Mouth. We all love Mouth. He's our He's
(46:18):
our favorite go to anytime guy. You know, like he's
always there for you, he's always reliable. Um, but we're
gonna go, oh he is. Yeah, that's right. You know
where We're going to go to listener questions. But before
we do, in the interest of the the book ends
(46:39):
that we talked about and the theme of this episode,
the two tragedies in life. At the end of the episode,
Mouth disagrees. Speaking of Mouth, he disagrees and says, no,
it's you know, whoever, whoever. George Bernard Shaw was never
kissed Derika Marsh Right, but the sentiment of gaining your
(47:02):
heart's desire isn't a tragedy. Uh. I'm curious as to
what you think about that quote. I think George Burroshaw
was a genius, and I think he's right. I do absolutely.
I mean, you must, you must feel the same way.
I mean, I've never suffered more than when I'm in love. Yes,
(47:27):
you know what I mean, I can handle in tragedy
but when I'm in love everything, it's like magnified. Yes,
that's true. But also you know what made me think
of that gaining the desire of your heart there is
a tragedy in it because then you've got it and
now what Now you have to find something else. It's
(47:48):
like the death of the chase when you spent when
you spend so long chasing a desire. Once you once
you have it, uh, it's it's scary. It's because it's like, well,
what do I do now? Now I have it? And
let's hear the child of an alcoholic and you think
that you don't deserve it, and so it's going to
(48:09):
leave you at one point. You've better work really hard
to keep it interesting, you know, um, you know, tension,
to prove you're worthy of keeping that low. Oh wow, right, yeah,
oh that's interesting. I don't I don't know that I
feel that way. I think I do have a Uh
(48:31):
I love the chase, and then once I catch it,
there's a little part of me and it's anything. It's
not love necessarily, but but professional things projects anything. It's
like once you once you get it, then it's I
think it's kind of a human nature thing. Just okay,
now what I'm going to move on to something else.
And that's why we is it. The tragedy is that
(48:54):
we keep climbing, We keep reaching for the next thing
and the next thing and the next thing, thinking we're
gonna arrive somewhere, but we never do what's above love?
What are you? What are you going to reach for
about love? Like? What is there above that? Like how
can you reach for anything higher than that? Yeah, but
then you get into the whole esoteric conversation of what
is love and like where you know, is love a choice?
And then the responsibilities Actually, let me take that, let
(49:21):
me take that. Let me just say this, and this
is a comes you have to quit. And when I
have a very special eleven year old, so we do
have these conversations, I tell him that it doesn't matter
necessarily because I always talk about, like, you know, this
pursuit of happiness by it that goes around, I'm not
believe it. I don't believe that happiness is something to pursue.
It's the byproduct of of finding yourself on your purpose.
(49:49):
Happiness is is kind of like it is the result
of something rather than a goal in itself and in
love as your as you said, it's like there is
definitely value in to want, just the words to want.
I want this, I want that job, I want that money,
I want that person, I want that acclaim to want
(50:10):
is a wonderful thing because it gives a lot of
a lot of direction and a lot of motivation, and
and But it's really that in itself that to want
part of the life is really what life is. To
get is not what life is, but to want is
you know what I mean? I do this reminds me
(50:32):
of something. My French hairdresser told me. This is perfect.
He said, I said, I'm hungry. I was sitting in
the chair. I said I'm hungry and he said, so well,
I don't know. I was thinking of ordering some food.
He said, you will be done and we'll be done
(50:52):
in about an hour. Are you fine? You know you
do swait And I was like, well, but I'm hungry.
He goes, It's okay to be hungry. That's that's his life.
It's it's just a feeling that exists. You just are hungry.
So what's if you're unhappy? So what you would be
happy again? Just live through the hunger, live through the
(51:15):
unhappiness and you will be fed and you will be
happy again. This is the French way of life, he says,
It's okay to be hungry. This is so perfect. We
were in Paris, not five four or five days ago.
We've gotten the kids in the car, Sammy's driving. We're
going to a restaurant. It's ten minutes away. We're four
(51:35):
minutes into the drive, and in the bat seat, I hear,
can we just going at that restaurant? I'm hungry? What
about that pizza place right there? And Sammy's got a
place for us. He's what he loves in Paris is
my wife. He knows what we're going, and he's like,
we're six minutes away, yes, but I'm hungry. And I
(51:55):
was like thinking to myself, is he going to like
throw his plans away for us? But it was like
this is so We had such a passive aggressive fight
in the car, you and I. By the way, it
wasn't six it wasn't four minutes in You said, I
was like, at least long, are not gonna be in
the car for like a half an hour? How long's
a ride? You said? Ten minutes? And then twenty minutes later,
(52:16):
I'm in the car, like, are we still there? And
he says another ten minutes and then I started to
have the monster come out, my angry monster. But at
the end of the day, you're right, at the end
of the day, it's okay to exist in the feelings
that you're feeling because they will pass and something new
will come along. That's all the feelings are. Yeah, they
(52:37):
never stay. Yeah. I wish we could tell Peyton and Chad, Peyton, Peyton,
Lucas and Brooke and Haley and Nathan that in this
episode and Karen, but we can't. We'll have to wait
until next week where Sophia and me. We'll have a
special guest, Miss Lindsey mckehon. Very excited for that. So
(53:06):
we're gonna have a couple of listener questions and we'll
do a spin a wheel and we'll say goodbye. The
first listener question, Paul, do you if your chat open?
Fire away? Okay, you read the first one, the Triana
go ahead. I have always wondered how they decorate the
homes with family pictures. Do they have a photo shoot
before the episode had stoned? Also, did they use your
real baby pictures or use random people They do both.
(53:29):
They do both. Yeah, I've had every new job I have.
When if if I'm in the house they asked me to,
I usually pawn it off to my mom. I usually
send the email to my mom and I'm like, can
you send them baby pictures of mean please? Are like
family photos. Yeah, but they also throw us in like
clothes from another period in time in our lives. And
then they don't. Maybe they photoshop our faces sometimes, remember like,
(53:52):
oh yeah, yeah, definitely lots of photoshopping happening. Yeah. Our
next question comes from Frank. How does it work when
someone who is directing the episode is also in it,
like Paul with episode seventeen. Um, I've done this too.
I don't like this at all. I do not like
(54:13):
directing an episode that I'm in. I would much prefer
just to sit back and because it's just so hard
to be in the moment of the scene. I'm so
fully in the moment as an actor that to have
to not be to have to be watching the other
actor in the scene and thinking of notes to give
them while we're actually just trying to do a scene.
It's very hard for me. How do you feel, Um,
(54:36):
it's different from me. You know, I'm you know, I
I set it up. Um, I'd like to see, you know,
the framing. So I want to see somebody kind of
walk through the paces where we're going to be, what
the camera's gonna see as it goes along. And once
I'm comfortable with what the framing is, you know, Um,
I trust usually we always had and we had very
good people. In fact, our dps all directed, yes, so
(54:59):
they're there there. Um, their insight was very valuable and
and I like to lean on people that I trust.
I've actually worked with a lot of people that I
don't trust their opinion. But on One Tree Hill, all
of the technical crew was fantastic, and I trusted Peter
and and and you know, and and everybody that was
was working with. So yeah, I didn't even a problem
(55:21):
when I started getting into a scene and and acting. Um,
you know, it's like I'm I'm one of those I'm
one of those fortune kind of people where I kind
of I'm not too overly harder on myself, you know
what I mean, My my my outside vision of myself
doesn't overpower my you know, my wanting to be present
(55:42):
for that other actor that's I make that a priority.
So a lot of times I'm not sure how it
went because I kind of let it go and then
I trust that, you know, Peter Costo will go great man,
move on. But how do you give another actor that
you're in the scene with a note? Well, usually you've
done the rehearsal right here and you'll kind of know
what they're going to be throwing out there. Yeah, and
(56:05):
eating major is going to be addressed in that. But
if they're if they're having issues, nuanced issues generally, you
know this, you know, most actors kind of know when
they've you know, kind of not being able to hit
there what they want, what they needed to hit to
make the scene work. And you know, I think I
think especially on that show where it wasn't terribly sophisticated,
(56:27):
you know, yeah, that's true, straightforward, good training ground. Okay,
so guys, we're going to spin a wheel here and Paul,
this is our every every episode we do most likely
to like a yearbook. So who is most like who?
Which character in which real life person is most likely
to go ahead and read it for us? Please become
(56:49):
a detective? Oh gosh, well Dan would be Yes, she's
such a super sleuth. Absolutely, we didn't even talk about
her on this episode. I know she was so charmingsh
she her heart out there, and I was gonna bring
it up a couple of times, and we kept getting
(57:10):
other stuff that she you know, the one look away
in the car when she was you know, when she
was kind of like and I know you like Peyton
and then you look away and they zurrat focused her
and you just want to put yeah, we we needed
her in this episode actually, just to I mean, there
was so much weight and sadness. Her floating in and
(57:30):
out of so great with Tyler, isn't she. Yes, she's funny. Yes,
I wonder those two characters ever did end up in
bed together. That would have been really funny. Oh you
know what if they didn't missed opportunity, because those guys
are Yeah, for me, they're the two funniest people on
the show. For sure. They're very very funny. Yes, I
love actually really I loved you to. Her energy was
(57:54):
so good in that episode. You know. The one thing
I was gonna say, also, we got a quickly point
of this. This was a very strong voice of the
opening where the three girls talked about what's inside their minds.
I wasn't in the opening, No, that they were reading, Um,
they were. They were reading the quote and then they
were talking. It was like Hilary Sophia and then um.
(58:16):
But we were hearing inside their minds for as we
got into and I thought, you know, I love that
our show gave that privilege to us as an audience. Right, yeah, like,
here's here's the thoughts of Because we always talked about
what's the influence of the show on young people, here's
young people talking. You know, this is what my Emry
noses is happening. I thought that was a nice way
(58:36):
to make a connection with your audience. Yeah. I think
so too. I love that. I love that they allowed
us to take over the monologue that previously had only
been Lucas is. Yeah, it's really nice. Well, guys, thank
you for joining us for this very special episode. Paul.
You were awesome. I love love chatting with you always. Um,
(59:01):
next time, we'll do it later with wine dinner at Okay, Hey, everybody,
come on back next week. We're gonna be watching the
season finale, Season two finale number twenty three, the Lever's Dance,
and we will pull a scenario from the virtual most
likely too hat See you later. Hey, thanks for listening.
(59:24):
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also
follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H.
Or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio
dot com. See you next time. We are all about
that high school drama. Girl, Drama Girl, all about them
high school queens. We'll take you for a ride at
our comic girl cheering for the right drama queens up
(59:49):
girl fashion, but you'll tough. Girl. You can sit with us.
Girl Drama Queens, Drama, Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama,
Queens
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Bethany Joy Lenz
Sophia Bush
Robert Buckley
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