Even More • EP509 with Michaela McManus

In an episode that was literally packed with drama, what stood out the most may have been the chemistry between Michaela and Chad. She explains where it came from, along with a significant Lindsey story that may now have you seeing her in a different way. 

Plus, the Drama Queens dissect arguably one of Brooke and Peyton’s biggest moments together.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
First of all, you don't know me.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
We all about that high school drama.

Speaker 3 (00:04):
Girl Drama, Girl, all about them.

Speaker 4 (00:06):
High school queens.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
We'll take you for a ride. And our comic girl
cheering for the right teams, Drama Queens Jays go up
Girl Fashion, but your tough girl, you could sit with us.

Speaker 5 (00:17):
Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Queise Drama, Queens Drama, drahn The
Queens Drama Queens.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Well, hey, everybody, here we are.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
We're back for episode season five, episode nine for tonight.
We're only here to Know. Air February twenty six, two
thousand and eight. And guys, we have Michayla McManus with us.
We're so excited to have you back. Ready to talk
about the episode. What would you like to read the synopsis?
Tell us a little bit about what happened here.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's in the chat.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
It's in the chat.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Now you know how the sausage gets made. Everything's in
the chat.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Okay. It's the first game of the season and it's
Mount's big chance to impress with his coverage of the game. Meanwhile, Haley, Brook, Peyton,
Lindsay and Mia get locked in the tree Hill Library
and a lot gets said, particularly between Lindsay and Peyton. Elsewhere,
Nathan and Lucas endeavored to tell both Haley and Lindsay

(01:16):
about their indiscretions.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Ooh yeah, this is a packed episode, but man, I
loved the flow. This felt so good just from the openings.
Even the recap had music behind it. It was shot
by Joe Devola, who I don't was he ever a
music video director because I know he was MTV for
a long time MGV.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
He wanted to be, he wasn't you know what.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
He did a really great job with this episode. I
thought the flow was so beautiful. I didn't like the
music video at the end, like the weird.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, so cringe. I was like, are we going to
talk about it? All right, let's just talk about it.
Let's get it out of the way.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
Okay, let's get it out of the way.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Hill go listen.

Speaker 6 (02:01):
You literally have your arms outstretched.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
My arms are outstretched. Listen, you guys. It was an
awkward time. Our boss was trying to sleep with poor
sweet Kate and she was just not having it, and
he was like, I know how to win her over.
We'll turn the whole episode into a music video for her.
And even she was a little like, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Why would all these characters be lip singing to my song?
And they were like it's gonna be great, And oh, Michael,
I said, why would we in the middle of an
episode start lip syncing to a song we supposedly can't hear.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
We've never heard. She's writing it on the spot. We
don't even know the song.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
It's so stupid.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
In the script, it was just like it wasn't even
that we were lip syncing, it's that we were actually
singing and we had to go into the ADR studio
and record, right.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yes, do you remember that? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Oh my god, Mikayla for you being like brand new, how.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Uncomfort just lean against this wall of books and you know, sing, sing,
sing how you're feeling.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Oh, I feel like it was a magnolia like that movie.
Didn't they do that in the movie?

Speaker 6 (03:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Maybe they did. Maybe they're trying to copy that.

Speaker 4 (03:15):
I wonder what was that one of the days where
we'd get the laptop being like, this is the scene
we're copying.

Speaker 6 (03:21):
Oh my god, because that would happen quite a bit.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
It might have been I don't sing on TV. That's
not my game, especially not if I know if Joy's singing,
if Kate's singing, I want no part of this contest
not happening. And they're like, no, it'll be cool, and
I'm like, I'm going to sing song quiet, you can't
hear me.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Well, aside from that, I thought it was really fun
on the flow of everything and the boys, like walking
into the gym in slow motion was so fun, and
that mod squad walk.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
Was such a vibe and wide and little Jackson in
his little uniform it just made me squeal. And then
thinking about all of us being in the library, I
was like, where was our.

Speaker 6 (04:08):
Mod squad walk? Yeah, yet all.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
The girls like, come on, they should.

Speaker 6 (04:13):
I wish they'd mirrored it when we got out.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, dude, they made us do all the emotional labor
and we didn't get the payoff about.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, he was great. And also Jamie and Quinton doing
the wrap on the bench. There were so many nice
little moments of just set up everything to still remind
us of what's happening in the story around us, even
though the whole episode centered on the girls. Yeah, and
sweet Bread.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
And you know what I loved too was getting into
the high school and assuming we were going to Haley's
class because that's why we've been there. In season five.
The kids that are walking around tree Hill, Hi.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Look like kids?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yes, that was my first note.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
Yes, you know, and like there's these little girls in
our cheer uniforms and it's so surreal. And then suddenly
we're in your classroom and there's Mia.

Speaker 6 (05:08):
And it's like, wait, what's happened?

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Wait?

Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yeah, And then you get the behind the scenes, you know,
the you realize we're on a set and Peyton's directing,
which I loved, and then the Rick Clark cameo.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh, Rick, that was great. Rick Clark was our real
first ad for you guys at home. And when they
pulled that wall in Haley's classroom, that was really Hailey's
classroom and they just pulled the wall on our stage. Yeah,
that was not anything special, it was, but it was.

Speaker 6 (05:34):
So cool to get inside of it.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
And it was always fun for us when you know,
folks who worked on our crew, who we spend more
time with than our families would get these little cameos
and fun fact, I got to have a whole second
life with Rick because Rick Clark was the first a
D on Chicago Med so we spent three years working

(05:57):
in Chicago together, and he's just the most wonderful person
and it was really fun to.

Speaker 6 (06:03):
See him on camera in this episode.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Rick Clark's a good dude. When all the me too
stuff happened, him and one other man from our crew
are the only men that texted me to be like,
I'm so sorry. I should have protected you. Like, he
really took a lot of he was very emotionally invested
in us and was really hurt by what happened. And

(06:26):
so I love to shout out a good man. He's
a he's a good one.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
I love that guy.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I love him.

Speaker 6 (06:34):
I thought.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, the music video at the beginning was so cool.
Why do we want to do another one? Weird?

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Couldn't tell you so strange of hers too? Yeah, it
was fun.

Speaker 6 (06:48):
So it was.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
It was a good epic opening and then leading us
all into the gym. It was fun. It was a
fun I mean, there was a lot of levels, a
lot of layers for us to play with in this episode.
There was a lot to try and navigate, you know,
you don't want to give away too much too soon,
trying to keep the comedy going, but also all the
underneath layers of the drama and animosity. It was a

(07:12):
lot to balance. I'm proud of us, guys. I thought
we did really.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
I just want to know why Peyton chooses the day
we're shooting the music video. We've been there all day.
Why she chooses like that specific moment to be like, Hayley,
I'm really sorry about all the Lindsay stuff. I'm gonna
let it go. I swear like it was such a
weird thing to be like, Oh, by the way, this
elephant in the room, I'm so sorry you haven't addressed this.

(07:38):
It's gonna play later, so I should say it right now.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
Let me do it in front of a bunch of
people when there's cameras in the room. This is the
absolute right moment for this conversation.

Speaker 6 (07:47):
I loved it.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
But also, what is Peyton doing going to that basketball game?
That's weird? Yeah.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
And then Peyton's response because she's looking at you guys, yeah,
and me, the three of us, She's looking at us
in the stands, she goes, who we hate the girls?
Sheep has engagement ring to my best friends friend so rude.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
It is funny because in the previous episode you have
like this beautiful scene at the end with Lucas in
the gym.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
I love that scene. You're so connected and emotional and
you handle the whole thing with such grace after everything
that went down, and you say, you know something along
the lines that I'm always gonna love you, but if
you need me to let you go, I will. I'll
do that for you. It's a really like you kind
of just surrender yourself to these circumstances. And I saw
a little bit of that too, even with your you know,

(08:42):
interaction with Haley during that music video where were like,
I'm sorry, I'm gonna work on this. It's hard. I'm
going to do my best, and then it just like goes,
it goes ye whole other mode.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
You mean the episode written by your wonderful husband that
made Peyton like a fully, like, fleshed out person who
was not just a vindictive bitch. He didn't write this one,
and it really had It felt like this was written
by our city boss and it was during the strike
so it couldn't be changed. And I remember having the

(09:15):
fight about the character assassination element here because I can
understand Peyton being like pissy. The Brooke and Haley are
all budied up with lindsay like, Okay, I get it,
but not to the point of being this combative. And
when we shot you guys coming in, it was like

(09:35):
right before the commercial break, when you guys come in
and you and I like really got into it right
off the bat, right off the bath, so weird. Yeah,
I remember them saying to me. It was Jodovola directing,
and he's like, it needs to be bitchier, it needs
to be bitchier, it needs to like this is the
commercial break, make a snap, you know. And it was

(09:58):
his first time directing, and so he was really trying
to make art and I was. If you notice at
the end of the episode it was dedicated to Bernard Kowalski,
and that was my boyfriend's grandfather. It was our dp's dad,
it was my boyfriend's dad's father in law, you know,
Like it was such a huge blow to that whole

(10:21):
family and that was the only grandfather that I have had,
really and we were all devastated, and so they all
left to go to the funeral in La and I
was having to fly back and forth and so I've
got Joe screaming at me, dealing with like a real death, and.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
I lost my mind.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
I don't know if you guys remember this, but I
was in those bookshelves hiding and he's yelling direction at
me from across the library, and our boss was behind him,
like whispering in his ear, telling him what to say.
And I finally yelled back like, well, why don't you
have so and so take his hand out of here
and stop using you as a puppet, and I'm gonna

(11:01):
do it my way. Like it became this like super
combative thing, and I burst into tears. I was like,
this girl's broken hearted. Her two best friends have ditched
her for this replacement girl, and it hurts. It shouldn't
be mean, it should be sad. And so I'm hiding
in the bookcase crying and Steve Allen, our grip, came

(11:23):
around and found me and just wrapped me into the
biggest hug and he was just like he's just like
whisper to my ears, like come up, Sis, come up.
And so then I you can see in the scene
when you guys all come in, my eyes are super
red and Peyton does legitimately just look like hurt. And

(11:44):
I thought for that, like it has to come from
a place of hurt. Otherwise it's so dumb.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Girls aren't like that, especially after she just said I'm
gonna work on this.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
I'm gonna be bigger well, and that I mean to
your pointment, Kayla, about what you were saying last week,
about how so often, like getting into this new medium
for you, you were surprised about how, like week to
week you would learn things about your character. We had
been fighting these fights for years of like last week,

(12:15):
I did this, so why am I now doing that
this week? It doesn't make sense? And they would tell
us essentially to stay in our lanes. And something that
struck me is this my lane. I'm like, I think
that my character is my exact lane.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Didn't you hire me to actually literally be this lane.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
I don't know if it struck you two and MICHAELA,
I don't know how far you've gone back, but I went, oh,
they just have this lazy device when there's a love triangle,
because essentially what they did was they made Peyton speak
in the petty, unbearably mean ways that when Peyton, Brooke

(12:57):
and Lucas were in a love triangle, they would make
Brook speak and it was like vicious and vindictive and
like always about weight and always like it was just
gross and it wasn't rooted in any feeling, so we
would have to find the feeling. And watching this episode tonight,
I was like, Oh, they've essentially made Peyton into Brooke

(13:17):
and Lindsay into Peyton.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
And wow, the same old, same old.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
These guys we work for are just like this is
how women would fight over us.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
And I'm like, is actually sidebar when Cap and you
and guys are walking into the library and you like,
do you want to see where I got shot? Which
is such a weird way to like why in the world.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Sophie and I looked at each other while we were watching.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
We were just like, what is this dialogue so tacky?
But Kate says, Okay, what she says is cat fight
can wait, but it sounds like she's saying camp and wait.
It's really funny because I did have to go back.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
And rewind it.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
I was like, wait, did.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
We get away with something?

Speaker 6 (14:02):
Did we get away with that?

Speaker 4 (14:05):
It's just so odd and that every once in a
while we'd have episodes like this where there'd be this
beautiful depth where Lindsay and Peyton get to and this
shared loss of parents and like beautiful acting on both
of your parts, and then like you know whatever, it

(14:30):
is like you know, Peyton's a bitch and manface Lindsay
and the song, and it's like, what, how are these
two things happening in the same episode of television?

Speaker 6 (14:40):
I literally don't understand.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Well. I remember the first time I read this script
and hearing those insults or reading those insults, I was like,
this is just so below the belt. It's I don't
I cannot believe that either of these characters would say so,
it would spew such a bitriol. No. I know they're
and they're dealing with a lot, and and you know

(15:06):
it's important to show all the colors of people. Sure,
like we're not perfect, but this just took it to
such a place that I was like, this does not
ring true to me. I would I know, I would
never say this kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
No, yeah, no, But even if we were, it's not clever.
It's not clever, like we would be smart about it
to be like that's okay, that's the choice.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
You're gonna make two women actually write that see that scene?

Speaker 6 (15:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Or one woman. But like if you put two women
in a room and figure out how it would actually go, yeah,
it would have been a lot smarter.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Because I felt that when and this is I'm jumping
ahead a little bit, but in that moment where Lindsay
has the breakdown and you kind of push the buttons
and oh, Daddy's little girl and Daddy's like that to
made sense because I'm like, Okay, yes, so many assumptions
based on what we've seeing people are what we think
we've all done that we've all been guilty of that.
And then you're like, oh, I was so wrong about

(16:03):
a messed up right that I get that ugliness right,
like that's human and that feels right. But this stuff,
like it felt a little blurry to me when I
read the script and I was like, is this is
this Lindsay saying this to Peyton or is this somebody
else saying this to Hillary? And vice versa. It felt
and pointed in a way that was like, yeah, really

(16:26):
kind of upset me in the moment, and then and
then having to having to like what you said, Sofia,
it's like you have to find this, you have to
find like where are you coming from to say this?
And it was.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Challenging the only thing that I could think that like
saved it is. What you're witnessing are two animals of
the same species, right, Like Lindsay and Peyton are the
same species and we're all cats, but these are the

(17:02):
two like jaguars, you know, that are just like, oh,
you wanted to go, cool, let's go. And I heard
a really interesting quote once about people who have really
similar personalities like that, and it's that they can survive
in the wild together when they each have their own
territory and everything's cool. But you put them in a
cage and they have to kill each other. They just

(17:24):
have to because only one can survive. And I the
only like glimmer of hope I can see from all
of this super nasty exchange is that we're seeing that
Lucas basically has fallen for the same girl. They're just
so similar in that way where they are noble but
they're not afraid to get dirty, and they're also able

(17:46):
to correct themselves, which not everyone is able to do.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
Thank God for that. At the end of the episode, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
If we just had to live in that stew.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yeah, Pauz, But yeah, where you guys take it, and
that's it. That's why it feels confusing, right, it's like whiplash.
There's such authenticity and it feels relieving of course, but
also I don't know, it's just confusing that we get

(18:19):
to that place that's so good, but we had to
start in this other place. And yeah, maybe it was
also to your point, Hillary, the immaturity of like a
first time director going make it bigger, make it meaner,
like because they think that's what something requires.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Like big equals drama.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, and it's like, I don't think so, but there
were there were all of these moments that were so great, like.

Speaker 6 (18:50):
And it makes it a little Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
The only word I can I keep coming back to
is whiplash. It makes it feel really like jostling to
have such good emotion and such good comedy, like MICHAELA
when you fall backwards with that chair, Oh my god,
Like I did a spit take. I laughed so hard
when like when Mouth's ringer is Looney Tunes and it's

(19:14):
like I just was like, what is happening?

Speaker 2 (19:16):
This stuff is so funny?

Speaker 4 (19:19):
And then yeah, when they start taking cheap shots, You're like, wait,
but we know how to be funny and we know
how to be really vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Can we can we do more?

Speaker 6 (19:27):
Of those things.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, we could have had expensive shots rather than cheap shots.
You know what I mean. It was a writers strike.
What were you gonna do? See kids, see what happens.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
That's what it is. Yeah, is the strike? Oh well,
well I like that.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
At the beginning of the episode, we get that that
little bit of Nathan and Haley and you think he's
gonna tell her. Oh god.

Speaker 6 (19:55):
I was like, thank god.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
And I liked it because while while Kayla and I
are in the for the whole episode and Haley's just
like I have the voice of reason, there's just that
little thing in the back of your head like she
doesn't even know her shit's worse than ours.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Totally.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
Her husband's kissing the nanny and he's seen or naked.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Multiple times multiple times.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, that would have been fun to play up a
little bit more, the sort of know it all, like
Hailey trying to be, you know, be in charge of everything,
and like, really, I wish I had a little more
to do. That would have been a good thing because
it would just show you how much she didn't know.
Until the next episode.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
Well, it would have been cool, like in that way
that Haley pushes back on Brook about her mom when
like when the initial chopped in the library, let's talk
turns into the Victoria is not good for you, bitch?

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah that you all do for me.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
If if somehow they'd been able to give that same
sort of gusto that you got to have in what
I can tell you about a mother or is this
and a mother's love is unconditional? And like it was
such a good push at Brook. It would have been
so cool if they had figured out a device where
like you thought you were gonna be with Lucas, you're

(21:14):
engaged to Lucas, this is what marriage is, like, it
would have been so juicy if Haley it had a
similar like I'm the best mom and I'm the best
wife and let me tell you what marriage is and
everybody the audience would have been cringing. Yeah, I feel
like they missed the opportunity totally.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Oh how creepy. The Carrie just like swept in though, Man,
I'm going to grad school.

Speaker 4 (21:38):
I'm gonna go to grad school and I'm gonna miss
you more than you know.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
I was like, oh my god, god die. Yeah, it's
so great that Tory is so great because it would
have been tough if she was like weird and bitchy
or like very like competitive and you know, jealous or something,
because you know, sometimes you work with women like that's
like I don't I don't know how to fun around those. Yeah,

(22:02):
but Tori is so great. It's so hard to be
mad at her.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
I know I love her, but didn't make all of
us question how we hire nanni's. Like none of us
were mothers at the time, but I've had to hire
a multima nanny's.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
There's no way I would hire a nanny that looks
like her.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
It It did get into my head a little bit.
You guys, I'm a level with you, just like because
there was there was one chick in LA that I
had gotten on referral when I was doing as I
don't I feel like Gray's anatomy or something, and this
chick came over and she was there for one day
and I came home and she was swimming, and I
was like, nope, gotta go peace. You do a kid

(22:43):
goodbye pass.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's so inappropriate relationship.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
They're like in your home and with your kids, Like.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, and she you know what if she's going to
be in your house swimming with your husband and your child.
She should be in a like a wetsuit, like one.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Of the little.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
One of those nineteen twenties like pantaloons, the.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Sake of like a per total propriety in letting you
know you should be comfortable because I am totally out
of you know, off limits.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
That moment when she calls, Oh god, it's so creepy.
First of all, when she calls, he calls her her mama, which, oh,
understandable they're spending some time, but it is such a
like it's such a close relationship. And then that moment
where she says, can I tell you a secret? So
she's like, sometimes I pretend you're my kid.

Speaker 6 (23:31):
She said, you know that with all of us so badly.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
I did not like that.

Speaker 6 (23:37):
I do like.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
No, that's like our worst nightmare.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
Ye oh my, don't do that psychony.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Oh Nanny Carrey. Oh, I mean, do we think Nathan's
gonna tell her for real? Right?

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Well, now that she's leaving, I think she's trying to
get it so that he doesn't have to tell her
because now she's removing herself from the equation and so
she's not a threat anymore. So that buys her a
little more time of him not telling her.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
But he says at the end of the episode with Lucas, Yeah,
and he.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Says that thing, I wait, where is it? I wrote
it down that I thought was really really beautiful to hear,
especially from Nathan, like just given his dynamic growing up
with Dan and Dan's jersey being pulled off the wall,
like yeah, and Mouth's whole overview of this is really

(24:31):
a story about fathers and sons. That they wrapped that
all up with Nathan saying, I have to stop being
my father and start being the father my son thinks
I am like he is saying that he wants to
be different, he wants to live up to being the
kind of man that is a goal. And I feel like,

(24:56):
I don't remember what happens in the next one, but
I feel like he wants to tell Haley or is
gonna tell Haley or I don't know, but.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
I just love that he's like, I'm gonna tell Haley
and Lucas, who he just confronted about kissing Peyton Like crickets,
there's not one one minute where Lucas is like, yeah,
I should probably tell Lindsey too, right right, No, nothing,
not even slightly and by the.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
Way, it's Peyton who cleans up Lucas's mess because Brooke
reveals in this episode that she's seen that ring.

Speaker 6 (25:30):
She knows it was Peyton's.

Speaker 4 (25:31):
Ring, and Peyton does the greatest kindness and says, I
only know what that ring looks like because Keith gave
it to Karen.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Oh.

Speaker 6 (25:41):
That made me cry.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
I was like, that is such a beautiful choice. That
is a great piece of writing.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
And it.

Speaker 6 (25:51):
You, Michayla, you.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
Carry that into that last scene when Lindsay goes to
sit with Lucas in the gym and you ask what
he's thinking about and he says, Keith, like, you can
see it on your face that.

Speaker 6 (26:02):
You know that now.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
It's so beautiful, and.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
It did.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
When the episode ended, I was like, wait a minute,
I'm here having all these feelings about Lucas and Lindsay
being like oh, and then I'm like, wait, wait, Peyton
cleaned up his mess. Nathan says he's gonna go clean
up his mess, but that boy's not cleaning Lucas is
not cleaning up his mess currently. I wonder if he
will in five point ten, which we shall see.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Mikayla. When we watched the last episode that your husband wrote,
and it was that speech in the gym where it's
like I'm gonna be like Keith and I am gonna
love you, but let you go. I loved it, but
we joked about how manipulative it is right where it's
like Peyton's like, I'm Keith now, I'm Keith and you're

(26:56):
Karen now. And so every time every time he said
in this episode, I'm thinking about Keith, I loved it.
I cracked up because I was like, is this talking
think about Keith or Keith Peyton? Keith Peyton?

Speaker 6 (27:08):
Oh my god, I.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
Didn't even catch that.

Speaker 6 (27:10):
That's so fun.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
The next T shirt we're making Keith Peyton.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
All I'm saying is now that you know Peyton dropped
the Keith bomb. Now that's all Lucas is thinking about.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Okay, we have like these great we have so many
of these great fan questions about Lindsay. One of them
is from Lincoln and he said, you and Chad had
great chemistry. What do you think made Lucas and Lindsay
work as a couple. What was it that when you
got there you like, I mean, because you guys did,

(27:41):
there was there was a great chemistry between the two
of you. Did you ever spend time thinking about what
that is or you just sort of like we're experiencing
being there.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Oh. The only thing I can speak to is we
got along like Gangbusters, you know when the camera's rolling.
It was just like easy with him. And yeah, I
said before, like he was super. He would just like
hold my hand through all of the me learning and
trying to figure it out as I went along, because
the only thing to do is just like jump in

(28:11):
and go, you know. Yeah, you just kind of have to,
like the train is going and you just have to
like jump on all off the train. And so I
was so appreciative of that that maybe that's what what
you you know, are seeing. I mean I certainly every
time I have a love interest on any show, it's

(28:33):
like I really hope that I can connect with that
person off screen. Yeah, oh, that that will just naturally
play out, you know on screen.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Did you get like were fans because you guys did
have good chemistry, I mean, did fans Were you getting mail?
Were you getting like things on message boards like hate mail?

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Did they love him to Lindsay?

Speaker 3 (29:01):
People? Oh no, people hate Lindsay. Why I'll read just
like because I got in the way of the Peyton
Lucas love story, you know. So I remember I went
off to.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Well, they don't hate Jake Chagelski. Is this hosogyny thing.

Speaker 6 (29:19):
No, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
I just really went after Lindsay. And when I went
off to do Law and Order, I remember Mike being like,
I feel like I should tell you this. There's like
a petition circulating online and it's these like one Tree
Hill fans. Oh no, yes, and they were like, now
she's on Law and Order, sign this petition. We want

(29:41):
her out, we want And I'm like, you, guys, that.

Speaker 6 (29:43):
Is literally insane.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
That's but it was. It was serious. And people remember
when we did the charity basketball game. They we did
like an autograph signing and I was saying you and
this woman was just like staring daggers at me, like
down the line. I could feel it, and the grown
woman like she's there with her teenage daughter and she

(30:07):
finally gets to me and she looks me square in
the eyes and she goes, he doesn't love you, weird,
And I was like, whoa. And you Sofia, you like
swooped right in. You're like okay, this is not real life.
This is Mikayla.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yeah, she's amazing, She's doing her job.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Yeah, so the fans aren't like there is a major backlash.
For sure with Lindsay. I think she just like stirred
a lot, and I don't think people like that very much.
So that was a whole other experience to have to
deal with.

Speaker 6 (30:44):
I was like, my god, I'm so sorry person.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
You know, wait, have you done conventions? Have you done
any of the one Tree Hill conventions?

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (30:52):
Oh you have the CODs.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Listen if you ever want to do a convention, I
would love to do a Clayton Lindsay photo and just
be like, you got to take both of us. We're
a package deal. Yes, yeah, I like all these I
get it because when it was Brooke and Lucas and
Peyton was the meddlesome one, like the hate was so

(31:15):
I mean, there's still girls online that are like that.

Speaker 6 (31:19):
Oh by the way, and same for me.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
We are just like you never stood a chance you
are And I'm like, oh wow, I know that this
was our job, like that none of those relationships were
real relationships, right.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Because it's like they're really in it, they really in it.
You know, so you're like, Okay, I guess.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
I want to believe in something like that. That's why
I watched Pump Rules because it.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
Is any way. I really do think that because you
watch that with your husband and like the internet listen that,
our phones listened to everything we do. There was a
wait where I was like, why am I suddenly getting
all this vander Pump it's me stuff on my Instagram?

(32:06):
Like why is the algorithm serving me this?

Speaker 2 (32:08):
And I was like, Jeffrey, Yeah, it's the Morgans, it's
you and your husband. God, I love it, you know. Okay,
So you know who loved the drama more than anyone
in this episode is our sweet Kate Vogel.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
Oh, God, just.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Loved it. She went from being a wallflower to being
like the instigator this episode. Yeah, she was pulling some strings.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
It was like, let's be nice to each other now,
maybe we should just like bitch a little bit right now.
That'd be kind of fun.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, she let that whole the music bit. She was like,
all right, let's go.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, but why is there a guitar in the library?

Speaker 3 (32:46):
Great question?

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Has anyone ever seen a guitar in a library?

Speaker 2 (32:50):
No? No, I mean like the whiskey. I can believe
the guitar is a little far fetched.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
Yeah, it was so odd and interesting too that, like,
to your point, she really does feel like she's hitting
all the keys in this episode because she.

Speaker 6 (33:09):
Wants to know who we hate.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
She wants to dig into the stuff, she wants to
kind of needle everybody. And then she's also like, maybe
girls shouldn't tear each other down and we should just
compliment each other. And I'm like, what's happening here, babe?

Speaker 6 (33:24):
But I did like that part.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
It's fun to show someone else your old stomping grounds,
you know. I mean, I liked kind of this little
buddy energy. Then pain in me a had and it,
I mean, it did hurt to randomly open up the
doors of Trick and look inside the gym. Well, that
was so weird, so weird. And I remember saying, like,

(33:49):
this is Dune. But it was a first time director
and they wanted to make art.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
Well so well, And you know what I was feeling
when I watched that, I felt like they they had
gone ooh. When we pulled back the sides of the
set of Haley's classroom, it looked really cool. Let's do
it with the trick doors, and then we'll be in
the gym and we can make it our thing, Like
somebody decided it would be a cool transition. And it's like,

(34:14):
but the bar doesn't open into the gym, so it
doesn't work the same.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Guys, It's like for Dora Hats, like let's look at
for do hats.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Maybe we shouldn't, Maybe we should leave that in the forties.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
But I think Mia treating all of the women in
the library as characters allowed her to be the voice
of our viewers because she's getting to say all the
things that the viewers at home wanted to say.

Speaker 6 (34:46):
And you know what's so interesting about you saying that?

Speaker 4 (34:48):
I'm just realizing that while we're in the library, Mia goes.

Speaker 6 (34:52):
And finds Lucas's book for the first time.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
She's the one person who hasn't read it.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yeah, so in a way, she's.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
Really like she's she's paging through the book in real time.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, what a weird sensation to have, Like lindsay, have
edited the book and and know like intimate details about
our lives.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
I can't believe he still used our real names in
the book. Yeah he did.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Have you guys, ever had someone that just knew too
much about you in real life, and you're like, how
do I I don't know how to navigate this. I
have no idea you mean like.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
You mean like a friend who like in social circles
or something who would like out you about.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Like Lindsay's clearly a part of our world now, but
in a way that like none of the conversations are natural.
I can never be like, hey, Lindsay, let me talk
to you about when my mom died, because she's like, yeah,
I know, I edited the book about it. Oh right.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Oh. I hate that. I hate knowing things about people
that they don't know that I know. It's the worst.

Speaker 6 (35:56):
It's why I can't talk to famous people.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
I can't like if we go we go to on
a word show, I can't like talk to if I cannot,
I cannot because I'm like, am I supposed to ask
how you are or what you've been up to? You're
here nominated in a movie, like I don't I lose
the ability to speak to a person when I'm like,
I know so much about you, not even necessarily by choice,
and I've lost the ability to ask you questions like

(36:22):
a normal person.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
And I'm going to leave now absolutely the same experience.
It's so frustrating, it's kind I think that's why I
like check out of celebrity culture. I don't know what's
going on or who anybody is anymore, because I want
to be able to have an honest conversation.

Speaker 6 (36:35):
Yeah I cannot. I just can't be a part of it.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, I don't. I don't like to google anybody because
I don't like to know anything.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
No, it's too scary.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
But I'm wondering for you, Hillary having written your book
because it is so personal, it's so much of your journey,
and like, do you feel that way about people?

Speaker 2 (36:53):
I never know who's read it, you know what I mean?
Like I think I was Uh, I didn't think it through.
And so when all my teachers from a middle school
and high school read it and did a book club,
I was like, oh, man, I talk about my sex
life in this that's weird, okay. And now that I'm
doing more stuff at my kids' school, I'm always kind

(37:15):
of caught off guard by who's read it because I
assume that no one did, you know, Like that's a
weird thing, Like why would they? And then sometimes people
would tell me and I'm just like, oh, oh, you
see my husband and I have basketball games, Like you
definitely know that I made him have sex with me
so I can have a baby. Like that's It's just

(37:36):
I don't know, you don't think it through and you're
doing it. The book thing's weird cause it's not immediate
gratification like a TV show is like once that is
out into the world. Yeah, I don't know. It's just
a different format than a book. A book feels really
like secret telling.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
Would you rather someone who you don't know, who you're
meeting for the first time and you're getting to know them,
would you rather that if they had read your book?
Would you rather them tell you straight away oh yeah,
I read your book and blah blah, or would you rather
find out later? Because they were like, I don't know
if I should say it, and then.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
No, definitely have a We have a painter that lives
here on our property and helps us with our animals
and then like paints the landscapes and stuff. And he
came highly recommended through friends of ours. We just needed
a body on the farm to help here. And when
he first moved on to the property, he was like,
I'm going to tell you right away. I listened to

(38:27):
your audiobook and I don't want that to be weird.
I just wanted to know what I was getting into
up here, and I respect your journey, but I wasn't
going to be a creeper and like pretend I didn't
know things about you guys that I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
And I was like, you know, that's so great, awesome,
such a good way to handle that.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Thanks for telling me. Yeah, yeah, it made me feel
much better. But also like as a boy, sorry you
had to sit through all that. That was a lot
of fertility talk, my guy.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, it's good, probably good for him.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
I think I reached out to you right after I
read it. Both my mom and Mike gifted me that
book from Oh Babe, And it was the start of
the pandemic and I miscarried and I went in for
my DNC Friday before Mother's Day, and like so healing

(39:16):
for me. It was, Yeah, it's really brave to put
all of that out there, and I think you've helped
a lot of people like you certainly helped me. It was.
I loved it so much and I realized beyond our
four dum connection, we had the same midwife.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
What you used Deborah Frank It was oh my god.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
She yeah, she delivered Gabriel, my firstborn. So that was
another just like bizarre connection.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Peyton and Lindsay are the same person.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
You guys meant to be.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Sometimes you just walk the same path as someone, and
it's always kind of like tricky, who's gonna who's going
to open up first?

Speaker 3 (40:02):
You know?

Speaker 2 (40:02):
And I think with my book that was my way
of being like, you know what, Okay, I'll just open
up everything first, and then you know, people can come
to me as they want to. And so sometimes people
come up about the fertility stuff for sure, and then
other parts are about like the me too stuff or
you know, we're just not fitting in is another theme.

(40:25):
And the book thing is just really intimate because you
can't fake it. You can't. You can't put that stuff
out there and like gloss over it. You have to
go full dark dirt. And I guess writing about yourself
is very different than someone else writing about you because

(40:47):
the fact that Lucas has used all his friends and
people in this way made me wonder, like, oh, I
wonder who in my book was like this sucks? You
know me stop tiring to me, Like my manager of
the candy stores, he like, I really wish she wouldn't
have written about this.

Speaker 6 (41:08):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
I don't know. I mean, yeah, we read a lot
of biographies and then you meet the people and you're like, oh,
seemed better in the book, do you know.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
I always wonder how that goes when people write biographies
meet the people in your life that you I mean,
you're not writing unless you have something interesting to say.
And you don't have something interesting to say unless things
have happened to you, and things haven't happened to you,
unless there have been some people in your life and
some bad things that have happened. And so there's really
only one way to tell that, which is to just

(41:45):
be honest. And I wonder about that sometimes, about just how,
oh I think about the people in my life if
I ever did that, well, how they would react? I mean,
did you get a lot of messages or like people
in your I don't know family, like people that you
would run into, who were did you have to send
out things like if I'm going to talk about you,
you got to sign this thing.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
No, I just cut whole things out. I was like,
we don't need this character. We can pretend this wasn't
a bit Lindsey's speech about wanting to get that day right,
the school shooting day. You were so good in that,
MICHAELA like that made the most sense because the weight

(42:30):
that you carry when you're writing nonfiction, every single sentence
has to be the truth. And I loved what you
did with that. I think that's why it takes me
like five years to write books. I'm another one coming
out in October, and it was just so hard to
write another one because it was like I already bled

(42:51):
all over the dance floor. Do I want to do
it again? And that speech nailed it. That's the feeling
like you want to get it right for everybody. Yeah,
you crushed that.

Speaker 6 (43:02):
Yeah, it was really beautiful.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
When are you going to write a book?

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Me? Yeah, I don't know. I hope someday. I was
very inspired by by that. I don't it's so brave
to put yourself out there in that way, and I
don't know, I don't know. We'll see. What about What
about you guys, Sophia Joy, do you do you have
that sort of interest in writing? I know you're both

(43:26):
brilliant women with so many stories to tell.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Like, yeah, I do for sure. I mean I think
the ADHD has made it really difficult over the years
to I have lots of essays, I have lots of
chapters and things, but to really commit to putting it
all together, because I would love to write about my experience.

(43:49):
You know, I was in a cult for ten years, Like,
I would love that that would be a really valuable
experience to write about.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
And the.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Recovery that, you know, ten years of recovery after that.
So it's there's a lot to tell. But yeah, the
pressure of getting it right and everything having to be
exactly real and all the people that are involved, and
also like I I don't know how much I can
say because there are still people and legal things in

(44:19):
place that are make it more complicated for the timing
of that. Yeah. So but I do write. I mean
I write all the time. I've got I have to
write projects that I'm working on. Yeah, I write songs. Yeah,
there's there's some things in the works, there's some projects
coming out.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Writing everything in code, You're like, if I sing it,
then it's just a song and I can say what I.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Want, which I have done.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
Yeah, the songwriting of it all I guess such a
cool you know outlet. It's interesting because, you know, in
a similar way that you did in grad school, Like
I left my BFA program with fourteen actors in it
because I didn't feel fulfilled, and I transferred into the

(45:07):
journalism school at USC and I was an Annenberg student
for the next couple of years before.

Speaker 6 (45:13):
I went to work in North Carolina.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
And you know, I've written op eds and articles, and
I've been approached by a lot of people who are
like these things that you write, and like the essays
essentially that you write about, like the world that sometimes
even you just publish on Instagram and long form or whatever,
like this.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Is all a book.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
But I think similarly for me, there's a lot of
pressure of how to collect and order things, like, you know,
the way my brain is wired to like be I
like repel stress and planning in a way that is

(45:56):
not super helpful. Thank god, I'm married person who's very
good at planning, like we.

Speaker 6 (46:02):
We yin yang really well.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
I am a you know, responder in the best sort
of sense of the words. So like in the moment
something strikes me and I say something or work on something,
and then it's there so the long form of a
book feels hard.

Speaker 5 (46:22):
You know.

Speaker 4 (46:22):
I've I've had people on my team literally like chasing
me with a book proposal for five years, and I'm like,
I don't feel ready, And I think what I'm learning
in this, you know, sort of stage of my life,
like being a person who's been in like active recovery
and therapy for PTSD for years.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Is.

Speaker 4 (46:49):
Realizing that some of what feels really hard about the
idea of potentially writing a book is the people that
I would have to talk about. Yeah, and like that
feels really dangerous. And the unfortunate thing is, as you know,

(47:09):
and we've all experienced this, but like as a woman
and on our show, I certainly went through this, like
something can be done to you and you still globally
get made out to be the one at fault. Yeah,
And it's incredibly difficult, and I just don't know. I

(47:30):
haven't really weighed like what's worth it in terms of
do I think there's important stories to tell and lessons
and you know, modalities of recovery that would be really
beautiful to put on a page.

Speaker 6 (47:44):
Yes, And like.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
Do I want to continue getting dragged for having survived
something that happened to me in my early twenties and
something that happened to me in my thirties, Like I
don't know, it sucks to sort of go through that,
like women don't get the Lucas Scott treatment.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
Unfortunately, Now that you guys are talking about all of this,
like that's the theme of the episode, it is pointed
that we go back to the scene of the school
shooting where Peyton is bleeding out and you know, Jimmy
and Keith died just in at hallway that we see

(48:24):
at the end of the episode. To revisit trauma, to
write about it is to revisit it, and to read
about it is to revisit it. And so there's no
moving forward for this group of women until we revisit
the trauma. And that sucks. But but we've got this

(48:48):
little like elf named Mia that's like, come on, take
me on the journey. And then not only do we
have to do it for I mean, we have to
talk about the Brooke Andctorious stuff because that was just
so fucking awesome. Hayley doesn't know she's going to have
to do it with the nanny Carey stuff, but it's coming.

(49:10):
Peyton's obviously doing it, and then Lindsay gets brought into
it by having to talk about her trauma. Yeah, you know,
is that something that makes us like each other? Is
it that we all have to just like cut ourselves
open for us to like connect?

Speaker 3 (49:27):
I think so. I think it's when you open yourself up.
I think that's for life, When you reveal truly your
your deepest vulnerability, you're like your deepest self. I think
that's when you can then connect, right. I think that's
what happens between Peyton and Lindsay during this episode. It's
that moment where it just kind of blows up, but

(49:51):
it blows up in kind of a beautiful way because
we reveal so much about what we've been through. I mean,
I know what you've been through, but it's my character,
you know knows what you've been through.

Speaker 7 (50:04):
But from the pages of a book. Yeah, different perspective.
Right to humanize someone. It's like so easy to dislike
somebody that you can sort of care acature rise in
your brain, but to actually see them opened up before
you with their wounds, it takes it to another level.
It's just you can't you can't compartmentalize people into that space.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Anymore.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Yeah, do you feel like because Lindsay had all the
information and Peyton didn't like Lindsay having just lost her father,
had this expectation like, Oh, no, Peyton and I are
going to connect. We have so much in common, We
love the same boy, we both have parents that have
died from cancer. I like Tree Hill she lived in.
You know, like, there's so many things to connect on.

(50:46):
And what's interesting when you think you're going to be
friends with someone and then it doesn't work out, it
hurts so much worse.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yeah, did you have to make a decision about that?
MICHAELA When you came in the I'm trying to remember
your first episode, did you know that Peyton was back
like or was it a shock or did you go
in like wanting to like her and expecting that or
did you have to make a decision about that?

Speaker 3 (51:09):
I think it sounds so creepy, but it's like she
was so close to that book, right, editing it to
so deep in those pages and in those stories that
I think she really truly grew to love Peyton. But
it's what a confusing relationship to then be with this

(51:29):
guy and know all of.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
This and oh that would hurt so bad.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
So I'm sure there was just like an instant feeling
of insecurity and really wanting to connect, but feeling that.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Wall wall is a subtle way to put it, spiky wall.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
It's like the spiky walls in Indiana Jones that are
just funny.

Speaker 6 (51:57):
I was like to me, it feels like a O
with crocodiles in it.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Yeah, but then you know you're you're so in the
thick of our world. You know, you know everything about
our world. And then here comes Tim who is maybe
not someone that Lindsay doesn't necessarily like knew about.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Yeah, yeah, I doubt Lucas wrote about him.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
He's not in the book.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Oh he's not in the book. He's so great in
this episode.

Speaker 6 (52:26):
Breh is so funny, but he broke my heart in
the end.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
That look, that one look. I mean, he is so talented,
the fact that he could be making a joke and
then in one second just turn his head and look
at you and say, nobody hangs out anymore, or nobody
comes back to I don't even know what he said
he was gonna touch anymore. Yes's looking at his eyes
and made me really emotional.

Speaker 4 (52:47):
And the spectrum he takes us on to you know,
the depth of that moment, and then the pure gorgeous
comedy of him being in the coming in the door
and me trying to run him and him picking me up.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Oh, it's so good to see you and hugging me, brilliant.

Speaker 4 (53:06):
I was shrieking laughing. That was so funny, And I
remember it like I could feel it in my body.
I remember him putting his arms around me and picking
me up and just flailing my arms and legs like
trying to get away from him, and and really having
to not break to not like screw up the scene.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
You wanted to not laugh, right, I wanted to laugh
so bad.

Speaker 6 (53:30):
It was so funny. He really, he really crushed it.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, when when you're like, no one's eating me and
he's like well, and you're just like no, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
But I also love meeting people from my partners past,
like that's that's fun to be like, Yeah, you went
to school with this guy. Hmmm interesting. Interesting, I'd like
to know more about this situation. Yeah, yeah, did you
ever go back to your husband's hometown? Where's Where's Mike from?

Speaker 3 (54:06):
Okayla, Mike is kind of from all over. He's moved
around a ton. So both of his parents are actors
and ended up teaching acting. Oh cool, they moved around
a ton. They're regional theater actors, so they were.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
So that's why he doesn't hate actors.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Very much. Understands the world what a prince lovely way.
But yes, Florida and Texas and Massachusetts and Ohio, and
his parents finally were like, Okay, we need some like
consistency in our lives. We have three young boys. So
they they went to school and taught and ended up
teaching at Western Michigan. Oh, right on in the theater department. Yeah,

(54:50):
so they're like acting teachers. So so Mike fully he
started as an actor. There's a shot floating around though, Oh.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
A head and shot all, Oh my god, have you
taken him back to your hometown?

Speaker 3 (55:04):
Yeah for sure, for sure. He's been to Rhode Island
a bunch. Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Did you take him to like a football game?

Speaker 3 (55:13):
You know? I wasn't so much like I was such
an artsy kid in high school. It's such a wallflower
and a late bloomer. I mean, what drew me to
theater was because I was so shy that it was
acting that allowed me to finally like let go of
my inhibitions. And you know, it's like, it's so funny.

(55:35):
It's sort of a misconception that all actors are just.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Like these loud, like charismatic Yeah, that was not me.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
I was like, I'm just going to hide back here
and hopefully nobody will see me. But when I was acting,
it was freedom, you know. Yeah, that's what That's how
I got pulled into it.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Wow, that's awesome. Oh I love that about Mike. I
didn't know that.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
Yeah, he's a little all over, which it also helped
me with this business where you just never know what's
around any corner.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
You never know.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
I grew up in the same place. There was just
like the security and the safety of that throughout my childhood.
And Mike moved around so much that it has given
me a lot of peace with my kids and moving
and like, you know, when we went to do The
Village and we just like uprooted and we're like, Okay,

(56:30):
we're gonna hunker down in Brooklyn. Yeah, even with that
pilot I shot last summer, because you never know, right,
you never know. Yeah, and I'm moving to New Mexico,
and I have to like just bring my kids down
there and do that. But seeing Mike and seeing who
he is as a person, I'm like, Okay, it's gonna be.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Okay that right, Yeah, they're gonna be fine.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
They'll learn so much.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
So what was your backstory for Lindsay though, because you know,
again she knows everything about all of us. The show
takes place in our world. Did you have to balance
that and be like, Okay, well, who's this chick? I
think we all like leaned on our real life experiences.
There's so much Sophia and Brooke and Joy and Haley

(57:13):
and obviously you know, I'm a nightmare too, Like Peyton,
what did you set up for Lindsay as you started
to flesh her out, especially in this episode with all
the talk about your dad.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Yeah, well it starts to really get interesting because you
learn a lot more about Lindsay in this episode in
that moment. Up to this point, you don't really know,
right yeah, yeah, or what her deal is, and and
it was all such a new experience. Again, I'm like,
I'm just trying to figure out what the tape on
the floor is about, trying to it was so much

(57:51):
to put together and every script are getting like these
little pieces of information to kind of inform you of
like who this person is. This was the first episode
where we really got to crack into what she's been
through and that trauma that and maybe why like how
she's still grieving and still dealing with it and hasn't

(58:14):
fully dealt with it. I mean, I don't know that
you can fully deal with something like that, right, Like
it's always going to be there. And obviously this relationship
with her father was so close and so painful to
lose him in such a brutal way, right, So it's
like that kind of informed me of when it had
to go into that kind of nasty below the belt stuff.

(58:35):
It was like, she's really coming from a place of
deep pain, right, And like here's this guy that is
like I need this guy, I need this relationship.

Speaker 8 (58:48):
You two are trauma bonded, just like Lucas and Paydon.
Why does this dude show up every time someone's parent dies.
That's messed up, man boy, It's deja vuie.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Like, oh, I just got like goose pimples from my
arm because I was like, wait a second, this is
all ringing a bell as you're telling me this story.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, that does sound familiar. I do
need that guy because he came in like Superman when
I was at my lowest.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Yeah, the stakes are so high, like I'm going to
lose this person that I can't lose this person. I
lost that person. I cannot lose this. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Yes, Oh I hate this. The layer of guilt right
now is so thick. Hate it. I did like that
we got drunker and drunker as the episode went on.
Do you guys remember having to play that trying to
remember like what scenes we had been drinking and which

(59:49):
scenes we hadn't. Were we just drinking in real life
at this point? Are there just water bottles full of
vodka on set?

Speaker 6 (59:55):
I remember it was Audacious his moonshine.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Oh it's Halloween.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
We're all like, can we get out? Can we wrap
so we can go?

Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
I totally forgot about that. Yes, there was no part
Oh yeah, Hillary, you must have been dying to get
out of there because you probably had a huge party waiting.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
No, this was the first year I didn't throw a
party because I was just Oh, everything at work was
shitty and I was just like I'm throwing mad now
now you made me mad and our boss was in town.
There was no way I was throwing a party.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
Oh yeah, gross, but there is. There is like such
a weird technical thing of that, like when Peyton brings
Brooke the bottle of liquor she finds. You know, I'm
sitting there like reading the magazine in the in the
stacks of books, like to figure out, okay, if we

(01:00:49):
start drinking and seeing seven, how drunk is everyone in
every scene because we.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Shoot all the scenes out of order? Yeah, that is
such a mental thing to descript. Is supposed to keep
track of that for us? And I don't remember if
I mean, if it was Mike Leon, I'm sure he
was so hard. How weird was that conversation about cannibalism?

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Ew? What the heck?

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Like they ran out a runway. They just couldn't figure
out what to write anymore. They ran out I have
in caps?

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
Why are we having a cannibal conversation? Now it's ghosts.
Now it's Jimmy and Keith, like again the whiplash. Yeah,
I would make jerky out of their love handles. Mikayla,
you deserve.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
An award for that. How did you deliver that line?

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
My god, good snack on that.

Speaker 6 (01:01:36):
For days. I was like, give on trophy, give her
something so weird.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
And then the joke about like the vampire, it just
kept going yes for your neck, and I was like,
are we.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
Still we're still talking about this?

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Well?

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
Also when you were like when you said the next
thing to me, I was like, are.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
We gonna kiss? Like, what's happening? What is going on?
What happens in the library stays in the library.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
There was just like a lot of weird sexual energy
and a cannibal talk, and I was like, this makes
me feel very uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
No, that was weird. I loved I loved the Brook
Payton stuff in this episode because true friendship is when
your friends made an ass of themselves and you still
sit with them. And the fact that Brook stuck by
Peyton even after she went real dark. She didn't have

(01:02:30):
to say anything. She didn't accept the behavior. It was like, no,
you're awful, You've duh hard. I'm still gonna go sit
over here in this stack of books with you, and
I'm not going to leave you alone.

Speaker 6 (01:02:41):
I'm just gonna make sure you're okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:02:44):
Yeah, And I liked too that we got to have
a bit of an arc because much like Lindsay gets
to express that she knows and wants to meet the
Peyton from the book, Brooke is best friends with Peyton

(01:03:06):
from the book and says, I don't know you to
be this person, like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
I know you to take the high road.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
So that later when Lindsay is talking about Peyton's morality
and her noble nature. It's very cool that it tracks
from Peyton's oldest friend to the newest woman in her life, who,
all in their own way get to say, like.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
What are you doing, buddy, don't be messy, don't be messy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
Well, I also love that Brooke finally got to voice
all this stuff about her mom. That was so great,
And it was so uncomfortable to watch everyone pushing you
and pushing you and pushing you, and you just kind
of standing firm and like, listen, this is my choice.

(01:03:58):
I'm choosing this because, yeah, for all the reasons that
you explain, I'm sweet.

Speaker 6 (01:04:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
Well, I liked to being able to express her needs
and say, even if it's for the wrong reasons, I
don't want to lose it. And the thing that really
hit me that I didn't remember the verbiage of it
and hearing it back like absolutely broke my heart? Is

(01:04:27):
that what I had to say as broke was I
wanted to be seen by my mom and maybe loved
ough that wrecked me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Like if she can see me, then I have a chance.

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
I can take it or leave it on the love
And it's like, oh my god, that's so that just
hurts man. And to be able to get into it
and to see the bigger depth of how tied to
her mom she feels now and how scared she is
that maybe without her mom she wouldn't have made it

(01:05:02):
like it's you. You really get to see the layers
in this episode, and that felt really nice.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Well yeah, it almost makes up for the cannibalism talk.
Oh my god, that's it. How did two things live
in the same episode?

Speaker 1 (01:05:15):
Oh yeah, it was foreshadowing for the heart falling out
of the you know cooler and the dog eating.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Oh yeah, okay, so we have to end with that.
So do you guys remember when we would get made
fun of on the soup? Yeah, MICHAELA, were you ever
the target? I've been the target many a time.

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
I feel like it was. I was definitely in some
episodes that got hit on the I can't believe.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
The fake music video at the end of this episode
wasn't on the soup. It might have been on the soup.
The whole speech that they give about Yeah, people on
the internet are people who can't create anything. I'm so
glad you brought this up.

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
I'm dying the internet's just for porn and complaining.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Yeah, don't you know what people do?

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Oh I can't. I can't. I knew exactly what it was.
It was so transparent and so ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Yeah, it was. It was fun to watch back all
these years later, like my guy, no, wow, no one's fooled.
We know what you're saying here. Uh yeah, our show
got made fun of, which was great press for us.
What are we bitching about? Sure?

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Was you are years later with like legit like new
fans that are watching.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Yeah, jump, I mean yah, that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Like the show that I would basically like learn how
to do on camera acting would just like follow me.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
I did you don't think that the thing that you
do at like twenty two to twenty three years old
is gonna be the shit lives forever? Yeah, the legacy,
it turns out it is yeah, you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
To watch this. I really I bat onto you and
like revisiting these episodes from so long ago, it's it's
a head trip.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Well, every every episode we pick our honorable mention. I
think my honorable mention is the not so subtle internet shade.
What was your honorable mention for the episode, Mikayla.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
There's a moment that that made me lol. And it
was when Joy Hailey is like calling us both out
because we're both having bad behavior and she's putting solitaire
and your solitaire and you're like so aggressively. It made
me laugh so hard. That was that, And and the

(01:07:38):
whole pizza toppings and Sophia, Oh yeah, it was so funny.

Speaker 6 (01:07:43):
And no mushroom, mushal room that made me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Bret Claywell gets my honorable mention.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
He's good.

Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
Yeah, I think I would throw it to Brett as well.
But I will also say, and maybe we've said it
already this season then, and I just don't remember because
it's the middle of the night. I'm delirious, but I
got really excited when I got to be like I'm
dying to see.

Speaker 6 (01:08:09):
Teacher Girls Classroom.

Speaker 4 (01:08:10):
I was like, we've gone from tutor girl to teacher girl.

Speaker 6 (01:08:13):
And I got so excited about that little draw and
then I thought, have we said this before? I don't.
I don't know, but if not, that would that would tie.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
I don't remember it, No, I don't think so. I
think that was the debut.

Speaker 6 (01:08:28):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
All right, ladies, let's spin our wheel. Every week we
pick a most likely too Mikayla, and we have to
pick a character that is most likely to do this thing,
but also like a real life member of our our gang.
All right, who is most likely to Elope in Vegas?
Peyton and Lucas tried but it changed their mind. Yeah,

(01:08:51):
so not us because we couldn't go through with it.
Does anyone get super fast married on the show? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Yeah, I think that's probably the answer, Nathan and Ali.

Speaker 6 (01:09:04):
Yeah yeah, I think that that really tracks.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
You sure things, So what's the risk, right, Michaela, thank
you so so much for hanging out with us for
two full episodes.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
Miss you. What a joy to be with you guys again,
this little reunion. This was so cool. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Great to see you.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
Yeah, And if anyone's mean to you on the internet,
just send them to us. We'll kick their ass. We'll
kick them in the digital shin, the digital shin. All right.
Next episode is season five, episode ten, running to stand Still.
I hope we can all get along in the sandbox.
Oh boy, we'll see you next week.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Bye, Hey, thanks for listening.

Speaker 4 (01:09:50):
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also
follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's ot.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com.
See you next time.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Were all about that high school drama Girl, Drama Girl,
all about them.

Speaker 4 (01:10:06):
High school queens forever.

Speaker 6 (01:10:08):
We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl
cheering for the right teams Drama Queens.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
Raise my girl, lough.

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Girl fashion with your tough girl, you could sit with us.

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