March 20, 2023 • 45 mins
Ladies and gentlemen, your Tree Hill Ravens star basketball player, number 23… Nathan Scott!
James and the Drama Queens discuss Nathan’s character evolution and what it was like for James, starting on OTH at just 17 years old, but being Nathan Scott to the world.
Plus, James tackles your burning questions!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
First of all, you don't know me. We all about
that high school drama, girl drama girl, all about them
high school queens forever. We'll take you for a ride
in our comic girl Cheering for the right teen drama
queens girl fashion, but your tough girl, you could sit
with us. Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama,
(00:20):
drawn MC, Queen's Drama, Queens Ladies. It's the only boy
that I think kissed all of us on the show.
Honestly true, I can't think of anyone else that had
that pleasure. A gentleman. Here he is. We're talking about you, James.
(00:43):
What's going on to see you do? See you two?
You look great. We were just making the point that
you're the only boy in the history of the show
that kissed all three of us. Really, m hmm, interesting
because Lucas never kissed Hayley. Is there like empirical evidence
to back this up? We have a tally showing. Yeah, listen,
(01:05):
we've got a fan army. We've watched oh so so
many episodes. That's where it is. Yeah, kudos kudos to
t y'all as well for for you know, getting this
far into the whole show and everything. Like, I was
watching the episode last night, and it's not lost on
me how many episodes it takes just to get here. Yeah,
let alone ahead of you. Well, wait, how many times
(01:28):
have you seen episodes since you rapped? I mean, I
can't imagine you sat there and watched soap net. You know,
I did James at home with a mac and cheese
watching episode one trio damn it, you got me. Yeah, no,
I I think the last time I watched a full
episode was probably around the time we were doing the
(01:52):
crowd funding campaign. Um, and he has helped us out,
came and watched episodes with us. Um, you know that
was and that was a trip. I mean even back then.
I mean that was twenty eighteen, I think, or maybe
even twenty seventeen, So I was that was a long
time ago now, um, And so you know, watching it
last night's even further away, further in the rearview, no
(02:16):
recollection of shooting those scenes. I think that was the standout.
I mean, there was there was a couple of scenes
that I definitely remembered, but for the most part, um, yeah,
for the most part, I was like, really, I'm glad
that the episode had a recap at the beginning, because
I really had no idea what was going. Yeah, the
recaps are helpful. Okay, Wait, I have a question, because
(02:36):
we talk about this a lot on those show, that
there are certain episodes where, similarly to what you just said,
we're all going we did what I don't remember that,
no idea, And then there's these scenes that you're you're
not only going, oh, I remember filming that, but it's
like you get you get like a it's like a
muscle memory, you know that film like in your core.
Were there were there scenes from four eighteen that you
(03:00):
felt that way about or were you just surprised by
the whole thing? Yeah, yeah, there was one. It was
the well, I guess it was like the last scene
for Nathan and Haley where I think it kicked didn't
kick off Dakota, where you know, Nathan is giving a
little press conference at high school, um and uh, and
that scene I remember, well, yeah, everything leading up to
(03:21):
it like not a lot of Yeah, don't don't really
remember shooting that stuff. But for whatever reason, I remember
that scene, probably because it took some some preparation. It
was like a little bit of a monologue, a little
bit of a monologue it was. I mean, I don't know.
I just remember being like going into that day feeling
(03:43):
a little bit and it's rare that this happened, feeling
a little bit of what Nathan must have been feeling,
being like, oh man, I really don't want this room
to be over for him, you know, like he's he's
going to Duke. At that time, I was watching a
lot of college basketball. I love to Duke. It was
like so cool that Nathan was going to Duke or
that prospect was there, and you know, I remember being
(04:03):
like really impressed with with what he was doing and
owning up to it. It was cool to see sort
of like shades of the adult that he might become.
But at the same time, I remember being like, oh,
I hope he can. I hope he can get this
opportunity back, you know. Um So so yeah, that one's
that one stood out is something that I definitely remembered.
(04:23):
I have no recollection of standing at your side shooting
that scene none whatsoever. Do you think you were just
standing there, like writing a song in your head or something, Robert, Honestly,
probably I just drifted off. It's one of the funniest
things about about doing this show is watching back and
being like so surprised at the things that I remember
and the things that I don't, things that you think
(04:45):
would be so monumental and I have no recollection, And
then others that I'm like, what that scene is such
a nothing scene? Why do I still smell the sheets
in the wall paper? You know? Like? What the heck? Yeah? Well,
wide and out for a little bit. Like what do
you remember, James, of you know, the nine years you
spent on the show. What are some of the first
(05:05):
episodes that float back for you? I think it was
probably around this season. Seasons one through three, for whatever reason,
are really a blur for me. I don't know why.
Because you were a child, because the frontal lobe was
still forming, Yeah, you're all. I was still Yeah, I
was still learning to catch catch the experiences and turn
(05:26):
them into memories. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's what it was.
I mean I think around season four, Um, you know,
I remember the final episode of season four really well,
the state championship game and all that. Um that was
that was really really fun and kind of a monumental
experience in my life. To be able to play in uh,
(05:48):
and see States Gym, and you know everyone was out there.
We all like traveled to go m you know, stay
out there for a couple of days, and it was
just a really really awesome experience. Um. And then after that,
you know, ironically, I guess once like the characters made
the jump into adulthood, maybe I was doing the same,
and I just remember a lot more from those years. Yeah.
(06:11):
I remember you started like coming out more in town
during those years. Like you either you turned twenty one
or you had a really good fake idea at that point.
But like all of a sudden, like life was imitating art.
We were all moving as a pack in town in
a yeah, you know, in a different way. Yeah. Yeah,
(06:31):
I think I came out of my shell a little
bit as as time went on and just got a
little bit more comfortable in my own skin. You know.
It definitely helped to not have to That was a
thing about going out in Wilmington is like I couldn't
really roll around with a fake ide because it was
a small town. We were on hundred hills, so that
was kind of pointless. So I had to like pick
(06:52):
my spots. From like eighteen to twenty one, I had like,
there's like a few places that would let me in
the back door. Yes, a small town, it's hard to
get away with stuff. Yeah yeah. But then but then
once I twenty one, I could go wherever wherever you
guys went so at Yeah, I wonder too, like that
that sort of evolution that you were experiencing, going from
(07:14):
being a literal teenager to an adult as we all
were doing that on the show, Like, I mean we
were playing teams, but you literally started as a team. Um.
I wonder about it because talking about how the first
couple of seasons are a blur, We've spoken a lot,
and I always wonder. I'm like, do they know like
when we when we shower you or any of the
(07:35):
other guys with the compliments on this show. I'm like,
does everyone just tweet our quotes at them? Like do
they have any idea? So just in case they don't. Um,
We've talked so much about watching Nathan's evolution, and especially
like you you you in this season begin having this
like deeper sort of stoic like poignance to your perform
(08:00):
months And I wonder do you think it was because
you said it? Do you think it was because Nathan
is finding himself in a way where we're starting to
foreshadow the man that he grows into, or or were
the storylines just that poignant for you, you know, thinking
about this kid settling down and getting ready to be
a dad, Like was it a little life imitating art
(08:22):
or was it really just that you were getting so
much good stuff off the page that it made it
extra special for you as an actor? Yeah? Yeah, probably
the ladder there, I think. Um, I think around this season,
if I remember correctly, you know, there was like things
for getting pretty real U for Nathan you know, Um,
(08:44):
I mean you know there were the there were the
storylines where you know, I'm about to get kneecapped by
Rick Fox. You know, did you love that? James, Dude,
I was so stoked about that. But you know, and
that stuff was that stuff was great in itself, you know. Um,
but I really I really gravitated towards I think being
(09:09):
able to have those moments like at the end of
episode four eighteen where you know, there's a tough decision
to make, um and and you actually see Nathan um
making a good decision. Um. And you know, over time
he's making more and more good decisions. Um. And so
you know, yeah, I took that seriously and I thought
it was great, and I think in a way I
(09:29):
was I was you know, learning from it as well. Um,
you know, those those lessons and things. But it just
felt really good to be able to to to play
that character, um that made that evolution and see it
come to fruition in those ways. You know, it's like, yeah,
sure you want to see him go to duke. But
you know, even at twenty one, I understood that the
bigger um, the bigger thing here, the more important thing here,
(09:53):
was that he was doing the right thing. Um. And
so you know that that's sunk in that that resonated
with me. There's something we've We've gotten this question and
all of us have answered it, and a lot of
our guests have answered it, but we haven't had a
chance to talk with you. Can you just tell us
a little bit about how you got started on this show,
like what your audition process was like, and how this
whole job came about for you. Yeah? How much time
(10:17):
do we have? Yeah? Yeah, all any time in a world.
Yeah yeah. So I was like seventeen, I had done
I've done a few projects, I've done a couple of
pilots and things. You know, I was a senior in
high school and I wasn't I wasn't too stoked on
(10:40):
continuing acting. I've been doing it since I was like
six seven years old, and I really loved it. But
you know, it's tough. There's a lot of rejection, and
I wasn't an adult yet. I didn't really know how
to deal with that rejection. I was just sort of
tired of it by the time I was seventeen, and
so yeah, then one day this script came like through
(11:01):
the pipeline or whatever. It was mailed to me by
ups or so however it happened. Back used to get
hard coffees back when it was called Ravens. Oh my God,
call Ravens. I remember reading it just being like, all right,
I gotta like give this one a shot, this one's special,
and and just like you know, there was I was
(11:21):
such a I just love basketball so much and I
have a brother, and um, I loved that I grew
up into small town. There was so much about it
that resonated. So I went and read for lucas Um.
I didn't get lucas Um, and then I went and
read for Nathan and I went through a series of
auditions for Nathan UM. At a certain point in the
(11:44):
audition process, Um it got. It got through to me
through like bat channels that like I wasn't I was
like I was too nice, I was I was not
hard enough like to be this guy. Um, But they
liked me. By the way, this is like me and
my mom, Like my mom's with me in Los Angeles
as I'm like auditioning for this thing, and I think
it was actually my mom was like, look, if you
want this, you gotta go to your acting coach. You
(12:06):
gotta take a session and like take this seriously if
you're gonna do it, like do it right. So I
went to my coach and we worked it the night
before the test. Um I think I I think I
tested like five times. Jesus WHOA really yeah. Yeah. It
was like five different appointments over a few days. It
was like did you have chemistry tests with that or
(12:26):
was it just yours? It was just like me and
UM and one other actor, like going into a room
on the Warner Brothers lot and like just reading for
the same five people, like over and over again over
the course of like two days. Did they give you
notes every time. It was like go home and try it, like,
work on it this way, and then come back and
do it differently. I think, so five times, how does
(12:50):
that work? You know what they were doing the toll test.
They were doing the test to see winch kid was
going to flake first? You didn't flake? Is that why
they do that? Is? I mean, think about our job though,
you got to do the same thing over and over again.
There's a level of endurance that you have to have
in television that you don't have to have in film,
(13:11):
like pushing someone to their breaking point. You want it to, Yeah,
you wanted it. I wonder if there was anything going
on with those executives in the room who were like,
we got to hire someone who's a really convincing asshole.
Let's make sure in real life he's not a dick,
because if he is, it's going to be a nightmare.
Do you know? Like I feel like there's a little
(13:33):
bit of that too, Like we're actively asking people to
come in here and be awful, you know, Season one,
episode one, Nathan Scott, So maybe we should just keep
bringing them in here and see if they're actually nice.
They haze you, bro, I feel like all those reasons
are valid. Like, now that you've mentioned all those reasons,
I'm like, it's probably a good thing they brought me
in five times to make sure I could do the job. Yeah. Yeah, so,
(13:58):
but I think the last step to the process was
was Brian Robbins having me and this other actor go
to his house and play play him one on one
in his backyard. Wait. So the guy that you were
up AGAs, Yeah, yeah, who was really awesome, really really
awesome by the way. His name is Riley, and he's
(14:20):
just like he's older than me, and he was I
think he was like I don't know, he must spend
like in his early twenties at the time, but he
was just like you couldn't ask for a better actor
to be testing against when you're like a teenager, do
you know what I mean. Like it was more of
like us to just sort of like it didn't feel
like we were going after the same project. It just
(14:40):
sort of felt like we were both there just like
in it sort of together, which I thought was really cool.
And and he could ball for sure, and I was
not playing very hard and Brian Robbins, like I think
he scored a couple of points on me, and he
pulled me aside and he was like, if you want
this job, you're gonna have to play. I was like okay,
(15:01):
and so I started playing and it went, it went,
It went better for me after and then uh and
then yeah, and then it was just like go home
and wait to find out if he got the job. Yeah.
The rest is history. So, so did you have any
idea at that point? You know, you've got to go
work it to kind of get in the headspace, you know,
(15:23):
you've got a ball hard. Did you have any idea
past who Nathan was in the pilot? Did they give
you any inkling of who he would become? That he
that he would have this sort of, um, you know,
generational fork in the road and he could either become
his dad or go the opposite way. Did you know
he was gonna get married in high school? Like, did
(15:45):
they tell you anything or was it all a surprise
once the show got picked up. I didn't really Yeah,
it was it was all kind of a surprise, to
be honest. I didn't think about it that much, Like,
I don't remember being that concerned with it, um because
I was like just kind of I was having so
much fun playing this sohole of a kid. I was like,
he makes a great villain. So if I got to
(16:07):
be a villain, you know, I was kind of fine
with it. I wasn't look, I wasn't thinking things through
quite as much back then. Again, I was so young.
I was just kind of stoked to be there. But
I remember getting like, you know, some assurances here and
there that like, you know, this is not this is
not who this character is. Like this character isn't going
to like end up dead in a ditch somewhere as
(16:28):
he gets his come up, and you know this is
there's like an evolution for this character, and just thinking
like cool, right, wow right. I mean when we when
we went out to shoot the pilot, you were still
in school, and yeah, you were the only one of
us that was still in school, and so I remember
talking about like what are you going to do for prom?
(16:51):
What are you going to do for graduation? Because it
was all like it hadn't happened for you yet, and
the rest of us were twenty twenty one looking at
it in the rear view mirror, and so it was
great to have your energy there because you were still
pumped about that stuff. Yeah, did you just feel like
you never left high school for I mean fifteen years? Yeah, yeah, no,
(17:20):
I mean I called, I think, yeah, I called and
asked my prom date out from Wilmington because I was like,
I missed that time to like ask your prom date out,
and I was like I couldna make some phone calls, manum.
But but yeah, it was it was, I guess it was. Yeah,
it was strange. But the thing about like the show
(17:43):
was we shot on a college campus and like everyone
was a little bit older, even like you know, background
were a little bit older. Like we weren't really surrounded
by high school kids, so you know, and then when
we were like shooting on a high school set and
the class room scenes tripped me out a little bit.
Like I didn't like the classroom scenes because I I
(18:03):
didn't want to be in class period. But the rest
of it was separated enough from reality that I didn't
really feel like I was I was stuck in high
school for too long. Yeah. Do you remember the day
(18:24):
when we got the red pages that Nathan and Haley
were getting married. I do remember that. I do because
I remember I remember the red pages and being like,
what the hell is going on? I've never seen red pages. Well,
our trailers were attached, so because we were in so
many scenes together obviously that whatever you know, whenever you
for those of you listening, they tend tend to put
(18:45):
actors in They're called a double banger, and it's one side,
one side as one actor, in the other side as
the other actor, and they will put you in with
people that you usually work with a lot. So James
and I had shared a double banger, and um yeah,
I remember like busting out of my trailer door and
you happen to be walking out to the time. I
just remember being like, what did you say? This is
(19:08):
crazy crazy? Yeah, very and did you know what was coming? No? No,
I had no idea. I had no idea what was coming.
Um again, I remember having like a delayed reaction. I
think I remember being like, because you know, from I
feel like the makeup trailer is like the nerve center
(19:29):
of the set, right, and so it's like headquarters. Like
I process, especially at the time, I really process things
as they happen. I sort of like learned to react
to things based on how other people reacted to them,
and so I remember going into the makeup trailer and
being like oh, this is a big deal. I guess,
(19:52):
like people are really freaking out word. Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
I guess that's why they're red pants. Also, like from
up from I'm a boy's point of view. You know,
you've got this narrative of like high school romance, and
for the girls it's very romanticized. It's like Nathan sweeps
her off her feet and says all the right things
and all of that. Like, as a boy, you get
(20:15):
a storyline where your teenage boy character now has to
be married in high school. Like, what's your take on that?
Did you know any married people in high school? I don't. No, No,
I didn't, But I did grow up in a small town,
and to me, it wasn't like I don't yeah, to me,
(20:39):
it wouldn't have been that far removed, like would have
been that crazy of a thing to do, because new
plenty of people that got married, like the year after
high school was out, you know, yeah, I mean it
was still pretty wild. I think at the time, what
our characters were, characters like sophomores or juniors or something.
(20:59):
Juniors juniors, right, yeah, I mean that was like that
was definitely, you know, extraordinary. You guys, that's three years
out from where my son is like if we three
oh wow, yeah yeah, and from a modern perspective, yeah,
(21:19):
I mean the further and further away we get from it.
I like, I don't even know if that story would
track today, you know, like I don't even know how
many people it was. It was pretty pretty outrageous when
it happened back then. But I think now just be
like what you know? Um? But but yeah, I mean
I was I just thought it was an exciting step
(21:40):
because I don't think I necessarily like knew that it
was going to go well, you know, like I certainly
didn't know that it was going to be you know,
we would those characters would be married throughout the duration
of the show. Um, and so like to I feel like,
to me, it was just kind of like, okay, well
let's see where see where this goes? Like I don't
know if this is a caution, Mary Taylor, you know
(22:03):
what struck me watching you guys play those scenes in
this episode today, and it is interesting, like we have
such good hindsight now, right you look back and you go, well,
these are the things I weren't thinking about, and these
are the questions I'd ask today and oh my god,
we were all a bunch of idiots. How did we survive?
But I was watching you too do those scenes talking
(22:24):
about the point shaving in your future and getting ready
for a kid and all the things, and I think
one of the things I realized as an adult who's
had to you know, do the work. We talk so
much about therapy on this show as adults who had
to like go and do the work and learn things
and to learn to communicate really well, especially you know,
(22:45):
if you were raised in an environment where that wasn't
modeled for you. One of the things I love watching
Nathan and Haley do is communicate so well what you
guys modeled in terms of the way that you would
share and be vulnerable and learn that there was safety
and that vulnerability with your partner. I was like, God,
(23:06):
they are better at this than a lot of people are. Age. Yeah,
and it's so cool, Like you guys got to go
on this journey. And I think it's that it's seeing
that kind of communication and that love between two people.
That's probably why all the fans are so die hard
because it is inspiring. Like what's crazy about that, though,
(23:26):
is that it's so easy to do on camera. Well,
especially oh yeah, you know an actor like you, James,
or it's somebody that you know, you feel really comfortable with,
who's honest and good and like you know you can
connect with. And but it's it's so weird how it's
so easy to do that on camera and then in
real life when the stakes are actually high and real
(23:47):
and your emotions for real, your heart for real is
on the line, does all the walls go up, everything
shuts down? And I'm like, oh, I don't know how
to do that. Never practice that before in my whole life. Yeah,
suddenly you're like, words are words sound for talking? They're
just gone. It does really help when you have someone
else writing the right words for you. Yeah, wouldn't it
(24:09):
be fun every time you have an argument with your partner,
you just like, can we call in our writers room room?
To that end, though, James, we've been doing this show
and we've said over and over again that this is
our therapy, Like doing this podcast and looking back at
this chunk of time and our life has been our therapy.
But you created your own content, which feels kind of therapeutic.
(24:33):
As an outside observer the show that you and Stephen created,
like tell our listeners about that, but also, I mean
I would love to know if it's been cathartic to
kind of poke fun and analyze what our experience was
through a creative process. Yeah, well no, thank you for
bringing that up, and thank you for the question. I mean,
(24:54):
it's like the show is called everyone is Doing Great.
So I love that show. I really g I love it.
It's so good. Thank you, Joy. Yeah, it's it's been
it's been a really fun road. UM. And you know,
it's a it's an independent television show. So we pull
it together with our little filmmaker family and you know,
our our friends and loved ones are in it, and
(25:15):
you know, you know, hoping to make it happen. UM.
And we did the same thing the second season. But
it's basically about UM. Three actors that were on like
a Vampire Diaries type show which was like, you know,
a mega success and UM, and then they come off
the show and you know, it's it's it's like a
late coming of age. It's like they were in this
(25:36):
period of arrested development while they were on this show.
They weren't really forced to they were really facing the
real world. And then they come out of the show
and they're in their thirties and their you know, life
has not really turned out the way that they thought
it was going to. Um. And it's about them sort
of dealing with those things in very very different ways,
(25:56):
but always being pulled back together um by this like
shared history, Like they're the only ones that know the
experience that they went through on that show, and so
those roots will always be there and will always be
like pulling them back together. UM. And UM. It's it's
really raw and and you know, supposed to be funny,
supposed to make you laugh and feel good, um, at
(26:17):
the same time, it's like very dry and awkward. Um.
And it's just meant to just poke fun at all
those little moments in life that we might feel horrifying
at the time. Um. But you know when you look
back at it, you know you might it might be
a really funny story eventually, right. I mean it is
so funny for real life, Like what was when you
(26:40):
left One Tree Hill and you're like, that's it, I'm
done starting this new chapter, but I gotta make fun
of this in my new show, Like what was your
what was your punchline? What was the thing you had
to hit. Um there was I think it was, Um,
I think it was. I think it was mostly like
(27:01):
the for my character, it was the I guess, like
an expectation that like life's just gonna work out and
that you know, you can wait for good things to
come to you. Um, that was something that I sort
of that was a mindset that I had for a
while coming out of the show. Was just like, I mean,
(27:22):
it worked out for nine years, why isn't it. Yeah, Like,
what's a big deal? What's everybody so worried about? Um?
You know five years later you're like, Okay, I am bored.
Like I'm bored. We got to get something going in.
(27:45):
That's what you do so great on Everyone is Doing Great,
Which which I loved is that you took you take
an experience. It's so singular. There's a very few people
who have the experience that we all had growing up
as teenagers in early twenties on a TV show that
lasted for so long and pacted our young life in
that way. But you made it relatable. So you're taking
the same experience. That seems so kind of bizarre that
(28:08):
almost nobody has had this experience, But when you watch
the show, you're still getting moments of lessons like what
you're talking about in a really fun way where everybody,
no matter what career you're in, can relate to the
idea of like, oh, yeah, you just have to like, oh,
it worked out here, so I guess I just wait
and then you're like I'm still waiting. Oh wait, I'm
still waiting. I got to take a bole by the
(28:28):
horns and get out there. No thanks. That's That's exactly
what we wanted people to We want people to be
able to grab onto it, and we wanted it to
have you know, we wanted to be relatable. We didn't
want it to be entourage. We wanted it to just
be a story about like people, which is you know whatever,
yeah we have because everybody's been asked to do things
that are embarrassing and I mean, oh my god, that
(28:50):
scene where Steven has to do that audition used to
like make out on the floor for an audition, like,
please tell me that was a real did that really happen? Well?
And those were the other things that inspired us to
do it, you know, like there was like a broad
sort of like meta stuff that was like, oh, this
is like the emotional reason for doing this. But then
there was just like the years and years of stories
that we had from this industry and situations that we
(29:12):
found ourselves in, and that was one of them that actually,
like that didn't happen that way to Stephen, but he
had an experience that was similar in an audition and
it was just like the greatest story that we ever had,
And we're like, how is this not on camera somewhere?
How was somebody not already done this? Like we kind
of I feel like the show wouldn't have happened if
(29:32):
it wasn't for him having that experience. Oh are you
so scared of our old audition tapes coming to light
one day? Because I think about auditions like that where
we would have to pretend there was a monster, or
we would have oh yeah, or pretend you had a gun,
oh god, like roll around like a Charlie's Angel. So
you remember the horror film they did that all took
(29:55):
place on the ski lift and you had to sit
in a chair in the audition and like pretend that
wolves were trying to bite your feet. Because Daniela and
I were in that audition together, It's just like I
feel like COLLETTI auditions for that one too, but like
that sense of absurdity sometimes going to bite us in
the ass. You guys, it's going to happen. Well, I
(30:16):
hope it happens to all of us at once, so
that at least it's like we can all laugh about it.
That would be so how committed we are. I think
that's why the show and what you guys have done
with it, it it gives me that feeling of like like
I don't know how to verbalize that, but when you
just go oh god, and it feels funny but also borrowed,
(30:39):
it's just so intense, yes, exactly where you're like, what
is happening to me? Because it is there's so much
about what we do that is ridiculous and that's universal.
And a friend of mine is a writer and she
wrote a really specific TV show and she said the
best advice she ever got from her mentor is that
the unique is universal. You guys have taken this very
(31:01):
unique situation that very few people understand, and like the
nine years we all spent together, and then you've put
this comedic lens on it, and it does I don't
know why. It just feels so universal. Everybody I know
who's watched the show, it's like, oh man, that one
got me or did you see that episode, Like, oh
that stressed me out, Like it's just it's so funny.
(31:22):
So that's awesome. That's I mean, that's exactly where we
were going for um I think, I don't know. I mean,
you you will have creative ventures sometimes, like you're just
you're inspired to go into something and you don't always
know exactly what it is, but you just know that
you're like you're just compelled to do it. And I
guess because it's like trying, something's trying to come out
(31:44):
of you. And by the time we got to the
end of that first season, we had watched the episodes
over and over and over again. You know, it was
always we were always really concerned by the fact that
it was industry adjacent or whatever, and we just we
didn't want it to feel too inside baseball. Yeah. I
remember after when the show is about to come out,
being like I guess, just realizing like, Okay, we just
(32:06):
made a show about life, Like we just made a
show about starting over at the end of the day,
and hopefully people will see that. So um so I'm
really yeah, thank you guys. How many of those did
you direct? Are you are you guys taking turns directing that?
Or are you on deck the whole time? The first
season it was Steven and I UM I directed most
(32:26):
of the episodes and then Stephen directed one, and then
this season we really handed the like Stevens directing UM,
one of our producers, Michelle Lange, is directing, and other
producer Johnny Durango is directing. Took my hands off the
wheel there, because you know, acting and directing at the
same time is always a challenge, but with this we
(32:51):
do a lot of it. It's it's kind of improv based.
We we do the show based on like really detailed outlines,
so we have a script, but it's not really script
format UM and I think that we try to just
encourage actors to like it's like you're reading the page
of a novel and you're like, Okay, here's all the
information that I'm getting across. But really it's like, I
(33:13):
gotta see the story in my head, and I gotta
I gotta tell the story the way that I would so,
oh my god, James, that's like the perfect hybrid of
Laguna Beach in One Tree Hill Kids outlines and be like, go,
you know, yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, Stephen,
(33:33):
you know, we we had that discussion while um, you know,
we were sort of like coming up with the format
and this is not a totally original format, you know,
like there are other filmmakers that do this and do
it really really well. Um, and we were inspired by them.
But but you know, I remember Stephen saying, you know
early on, like this is like not far off from
what Moving to Beach was, you know, like and uh
(33:56):
so yeah. And the actually our our director of photograph
for the second season, Gareth Cox. He's a director of
photography for this show called CSA Key on MTV with
My husband is obsessed obsessed. Oh I love it. Yeah,
that's the one, right, It's about its occasially lauda Beach
(34:17):
in the Four Keys. Dude. Yeah. J d M is
a big fan of CRS. I love how much he
loves trashy reality. God, I love it so much. And
you believe he's never watched ours, um, James, speaking of
funny storylines, obviously, we make a lot of fun of
ourselves on this podcast, and your character has been through
(34:38):
some wild adventures, whether you're doing shit with Chris Keller,
or you're getting beat up by Rick Fox, like well
the Russian Mafia. Yeah, Like what were the storylines for
you that you look back on now as a grown
up and you're just like, oh god, Yeah, I mean
is there anything you ever went in and you were
(34:58):
like really really like his anyway we can? Yeah, I
mean there was a couple, um, you know, even even
some of the wilder stuff we did, you know, like
the Rick Fox of it all, or like you know,
being you know, held hostage by serbian gangsters. Like there
was always something fun to find in there, and and
(35:19):
honestly it always tested me the most. Like I found
it much easier to you know, you know, play um,
you know, an emotional scene with you Joy than I did,
you know, having to get emotional and scenes like that
because I'd never done like an action movie. I'd never
done a horror movie or anything like that. Like I'd
never conjured up those emotions from a situation that you
(35:44):
know is absurd on set, right. Yeah, you gotta like
your challenge is to really make that real. Like it's
it's not hard to make something real with you, Joy,
but it's hard to make something real, you know, with
with other situations, and so I always felt like going
into those I was nervous, but at the same time
it was like, all right, how are we gonna how
(36:05):
are we gonna do this? Like how we like we
got to make the audience believe this and so yeah,
well and for our friends at home. One of the
things when you reference why some of that stuff can
be hard, you know, to your point, if you guys
are shooting a scene as Nathan and Haley, you're in
close quarters, you're looking at each other, you get to
react to what she's doing. She gets to react to
what you're doing. One of the things people don't know about,
(36:27):
you know, the Rick Fox storyline, for example, is they'll
do the crash, but they only do the crash in
the wide shots because there's one vehicle, and so you'll
be on camera and you're close up, and they'll be
like someone's running by with a tennis ball on a
c stand for your eyeline, and then they go and boom,
and you're supposed to react like you're watching your wife
(36:47):
get hit by a car, but it's there's nothing happening,
and it's so insane. So the challenge to create realism
you know how big it's wild? Yeah, seriously, Yeah, that's
that's that's the biggest challenge I feel like. And then
you know, like like to use that as an example,
you have the crash which you're supposed to react to, um,
(37:10):
and then they go around and they cover every single
actor who's there reacting to it. And then two hours later,
you're still reacting to the crash that happened, you know,
earlier in the day or whatever it could be, six
hours later and you're like, I'm still supposed to be
up or you have no idea what the crash is
going to look like. They just sort of give you
an idea of it. But then you see the stunt
(37:32):
that they do later and you're like, I would have
had a way bigger reaction, you know. Smaller reaction, yeah,
always great when they shoot the action lasts, so they're like, Okay,
react to the thing that's going to happen, and you're like,
but I haven't seen it yet. He just had to
make it up, James. We solicited for questions for this episode,
(38:00):
and we solicit for questions for all of our guests. UM,
We've never had an avalanche like this before. So we're
going to do some rapid fire fan questions. Well boys
should idea. Yeah, let's feel like you just blow through them.
But I want to start I peruse these. I have
a question that I need to ask. Um. Okay, listen,
you always had strong little brother energy for me because
(38:22):
I met you as like a child. But Marissa would
love to know about your thoughts on your hair in
season four because when you showed up with long hair,
that was the first time I was like, oh my god,
James is like hot, James is like dangerous, excellent hair,
dangerous lafferty. I have a note here, hair question mark. Well, no,
(38:45):
no question mark, no question mark, hair exclamation point. Yeah,
loved it. Hey, is that what we're calling this episode?
Hair exclamation boy? Yeah? It was like suddenly, I don't
know what that was, you know what, you know what
I think it was. It was I think they were
growing my hair. I was growing my hair out in
anticipation for season five. Yeah, when they were going to
(39:06):
flash back and forth between when Um, I had like,
what was it they needed to show, you know, they
needed to show that there was like a difference in
the timelines and so oh and I was like, I
had really long hair because I had fallen. You know,
I was like in a wheelchair and I was not
taking care of myself, and so yeah, they decided that
(39:27):
it was going to be easier. Oh god, they didn't
want to wig me because the wig would look fake.
So they needed me to grow my hair out long
enough so that they could attach extensions to it. Um.
And then that way they could go back and forth
between haftensions. Yeah, I had extensions, and then they and
(39:49):
then they then they cut my hair, my actual head
hair into tiny, tiny little pieces um, and they put
in a little tray with some glue on it, and
then they took a paintbrush and then they paint did
the glue hair on my face. That's how I had
that big beard. It was awesome. That's that's so I
was like there like three three hours early every day. Wow,
(40:12):
they have the extensions and then get that glue on
the face and then why didn't you just grow? Oh?
Because they had to go back and forth, so they couldn't. Yeah,
and I also couldn't grow a beard. Oh you couldn't.
I mean I could maybe grow like it wouldn't have
been a fun beard to TV, for sure, that's so funny.
It was a hit. Okay, if you could have chosen
(40:33):
to direct the pilot or the finale, which one the pilot?
I guess? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think the
pilot because um yeah, I don't know. Okay, it's a
rapid fire. You don't have to explain yourself. Yeah yeah, okay,
Oh sorry knocking them out. Were there any storylines that
the writers pitched to you for Nathan that then didn't
(40:56):
wind up happening but you wished you'd gotten to film? No,
I don't think so. There was talk of Nathan like
making it to the NBA, but I don't think the
NBA would really, Um, let us do what we needed
to do to make that storyline happen. That would have
been cool, but but what it didn't happen, so so
(41:17):
I guess maybe that maybe that can see. Yeah, did
you keep anything from set? I kept some. I kept
the signature sneakers that Nathan had in season at the
beginning of season five when he was like when it
was all good, he got his contract and his shoe
deal and stuff, So I yeah, I kept what other
character besides Nathan? Would you want to play Whitey? Oh?
(41:42):
I was watching the episode last night. I was like, God,
I love this guy like I love Barry and I
love Whitey. Did you ever go drinking with Whitey? I did? Yeah, Yeah,
a couple of times. We didn't run in the same circles,
but I definitely, I definitely saw him out. Yeah. Sure,
Oh that's so fun. Okay, that's a perfect segue into
(42:04):
Will's question. Whitey was an important coach and figure in
Nathan's life. Who has been a similar coach or figure
in your life? Oh? Good question. Yeah, I guess. Uh,
you know, my acting coach Andrew mcgarrian was a big,
you know influence on me and especially in as a
young person in this industry. Just um taught me a
(42:24):
lot of m foundational stuff about you know, acting, but
also about how to be a professional. So yeah, hmm, yeah,
that's awesome. Well he nailed that. Yeah. I mean, for sure, James,
everyone everyone in our industry working at the age that
we were working at stop in one way or another.
(42:46):
And you are one of the few unicorns that never
do you never? No, that's not true. I mean every
I was young, you know, like I was not. I
was certainly certainly not perfect. But um, but I had.
I definitely had. You know, you always had a good
head on your shoulders. Yeah, you know, good family. I've
(43:08):
been really, really fortunate in life, so I think that
that helped, and you know, people like Andrew helped, and
you know, there was good influences on the show as well.
Like you know, um, I'll never forget Kriig Shefferd telling
me to save my money. But that all stuck with me,
It really did. He had a great explanation for it.
And he didn't tell me in like a condescending way
(43:30):
or in a way that you know, made me feel
like I didn't know anything. He was. He was genuinely
trying to help me. Um, And at the time you
probably thought, like, this kid's never gonna hear a word
I'm saying. But I heard him like loud and clear.
So getting that advice from Craig from this perspective that
you're in today, we have a last kind of maybe
(43:52):
a perfect last fan question is what advice would you
give Nathan today about life? Oh? Man, I feel like
I should be getting advice from Nathan, not giving it
to him, or give advice to a young version of
yourself even right right, It's like Yeah, anything I could
say to Nathan. I feel like he already kind of knew,
but I feel like I would say or maybe remind him,
(44:14):
or remind anyone that, like anything, anything worth doing is
going to probably be pretty hard, and it's going to
take a lot of time and dedication, but you can
definitely do it um and just try to just just
try not to lose yourself along the way, you know,
just no matter how hard it gets, and no matter
(44:36):
how you know, I guess how much it feels like
you're not going to get there sometimes, just try to
be kind to yourself and be kind to others and
and and you'll you'll get there. Like it'll happen, and
it might happen in a way that you don't expect,
but it's going to happen. Well, James, it's like the
perfect advicement for this episode. Hey, listen, we're so excited
(44:57):
that we have you because everyone's been asked few for
years now. Yes, we just watched for eighteen. Would you
stay and do a recap episode off eighteen with us? Oh?
Absolutely perfect, perfect, Let's rock it out, all right, kids,
We'll see you next week with four eighteen. Hey, thanks
(45:17):
for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You
can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens oth
or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com.
See you next time. We all about that high school drama.
Girl Drama, Girl, all about them high school queens Forever.
We'll take you for a ride at our comic girl
(45:39):
Ram cheering for the righteen drama queens up girl fashion,
but your tough girl, You could sit with us Girl Drama, Queens, Drama,
Queens Drama, Queens Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama Queens
First of all, you don't know me. We all about
that high school drama, girl drama girl, all about them
high school queens forever. We'll take you for a ride
in our comic girl Cheering for the right teen drama
queens girl fashion, but your tough girl, you could sit
with us. Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama,
(00:20):
drawn MC, Queen's Drama, Queens Ladies. It's the only boy
that I think kissed all of us on the show.
Honestly true, I can't think of anyone else that had
that pleasure. A gentleman. Here he is. We're talking about you, James.
(00:43):
What's going on to see you do? See you two?
You look great. We were just making the point that
you're the only boy in the history of the show
that kissed all three of us. Really, m hmm, interesting
because Lucas never kissed Hayley. Is there like empirical evidence
to back this up? We have a tally showing. Yeah, listen,
(01:05):
we've got a fan army. We've watched oh so so
many episodes. That's where it is. Yeah, kudos kudos to
t y'all as well for for you know, getting this
far into the whole show and everything. Like, I was
watching the episode last night, and it's not lost on
me how many episodes it takes just to get here. Yeah,
let alone ahead of you. Well, wait, how many times
(01:28):
have you seen episodes since you rapped? I mean, I
can't imagine you sat there and watched soap net. You know,
I did James at home with a mac and cheese
watching episode one trio damn it, you got me. Yeah, no,
I I think the last time I watched a full
episode was probably around the time we were doing the
(01:52):
crowd funding campaign. Um, and he has helped us out,
came and watched episodes with us. Um, you know that
was and that was a trip. I mean even back then.
I mean that was twenty eighteen, I think, or maybe
even twenty seventeen, So I was that was a long
time ago now, um, And so you know, watching it
last night's even further away, further in the rearview, no
(02:16):
recollection of shooting those scenes. I think that was the standout.
I mean, there was there was a couple of scenes
that I definitely remembered, but for the most part, um, yeah,
for the most part, I was like, really, I'm glad
that the episode had a recap at the beginning, because
I really had no idea what was going. Yeah, the
recaps are helpful. Okay, Wait, I have a question, because
(02:36):
we talk about this a lot on those show, that
there are certain episodes where, similarly to what you just said,
we're all going we did what I don't remember that,
no idea, And then there's these scenes that you're you're
not only going, oh, I remember filming that, but it's
like you get you get like a it's like a
muscle memory, you know that film like in your core.
Were there were there scenes from four eighteen that you
(03:00):
felt that way about or were you just surprised by
the whole thing? Yeah, yeah, there was one. It was
the well, I guess it was like the last scene
for Nathan and Haley where I think it kicked didn't
kick off Dakota, where you know, Nathan is giving a
little press conference at high school, um and uh, and
that scene I remember, well, yeah, everything leading up to
(03:21):
it like not a lot of Yeah, don't don't really
remember shooting that stuff. But for whatever reason, I remember
that scene, probably because it took some some preparation. It
was like a little bit of a monologue, a little
bit of a monologue it was. I mean, I don't know.
I just remember being like going into that day feeling
(03:43):
a little bit and it's rare that this happened, feeling
a little bit of what Nathan must have been feeling,
being like, oh man, I really don't want this room
to be over for him, you know, like he's he's
going to Duke. At that time, I was watching a
lot of college basketball. I love to Duke. It was
like so cool that Nathan was going to Duke or
that prospect was there, and you know, I remember being
(04:03):
like really impressed with with what he was doing and
owning up to it. It was cool to see sort
of like shades of the adult that he might become.
But at the same time, I remember being like, oh,
I hope he can. I hope he can get this
opportunity back, you know. Um So so yeah, that one's
that one stood out is something that I definitely remembered.
(04:23):
I have no recollection of standing at your side shooting
that scene none whatsoever. Do you think you were just
standing there, like writing a song in your head or something, Robert, Honestly,
probably I just drifted off. It's one of the funniest
things about about doing this show is watching back and
being like so surprised at the things that I remember
and the things that I don't, things that you think
(04:45):
would be so monumental and I have no recollection, And
then others that I'm like, what that scene is such
a nothing scene? Why do I still smell the sheets
in the wall paper? You know? Like? What the heck? Yeah? Well,
wide and out for a little bit. Like what do
you remember, James, of you know, the nine years you
spent on the show. What are some of the first
(05:05):
episodes that float back for you? I think it was
probably around this season. Seasons one through three, for whatever reason,
are really a blur for me. I don't know why.
Because you were a child, because the frontal lobe was
still forming, Yeah, you're all. I was still Yeah, I
was still learning to catch catch the experiences and turn
(05:26):
them into memories. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's what it was.
I mean I think around season four, Um, you know,
I remember the final episode of season four really well,
the state championship game and all that. Um that was
that was really really fun and kind of a monumental
experience in my life. To be able to play in uh,
(05:48):
and see States Gym, and you know everyone was out there.
We all like traveled to go m you know, stay
out there for a couple of days, and it was
just a really really awesome experience. Um. And then after that,
you know, ironically, I guess once like the characters made
the jump into adulthood, maybe I was doing the same,
and I just remember a lot more from those years. Yeah.
(06:11):
I remember you started like coming out more in town
during those years. Like you either you turned twenty one
or you had a really good fake idea at that point.
But like all of a sudden, like life was imitating art.
We were all moving as a pack in town in
a yeah, you know, in a different way. Yeah. Yeah,
(06:31):
I think I came out of my shell a little
bit as as time went on and just got a
little bit more comfortable in my own skin. You know.
It definitely helped to not have to That was a
thing about going out in Wilmington is like I couldn't
really roll around with a fake ide because it was
a small town. We were on hundred hills, so that
was kind of pointless. So I had to like pick
(06:52):
my spots. From like eighteen to twenty one, I had like,
there's like a few places that would let me in
the back door. Yes, a small town, it's hard to
get away with stuff. Yeah yeah. But then but then
once I twenty one, I could go wherever wherever you
guys went so at Yeah, I wonder too, like that
that sort of evolution that you were experiencing, going from
(07:14):
being a literal teenager to an adult as we all
were doing that on the show, Like, I mean we
were playing teams, but you literally started as a team. Um.
I wonder about it because talking about how the first
couple of seasons are a blur, We've spoken a lot,
and I always wonder. I'm like, do they know like
when we when we shower you or any of the
(07:35):
other guys with the compliments on this show. I'm like,
does everyone just tweet our quotes at them? Like do
they have any idea? So just in case they don't. Um,
We've talked so much about watching Nathan's evolution, and especially
like you you you in this season begin having this
like deeper sort of stoic like poignance to your perform
(08:00):
months And I wonder do you think it was because
you said it? Do you think it was because Nathan
is finding himself in a way where we're starting to
foreshadow the man that he grows into, or or were
the storylines just that poignant for you, you know, thinking
about this kid settling down and getting ready to be
a dad, Like was it a little life imitating art
(08:22):
or was it really just that you were getting so
much good stuff off the page that it made it
extra special for you as an actor? Yeah? Yeah, probably
the ladder there, I think. Um, I think around this season,
if I remember correctly, you know, there was like things
for getting pretty real U for Nathan you know, Um,
(08:44):
I mean you know there were the there were the
storylines where you know, I'm about to get kneecapped by
Rick Fox. You know, did you love that? James, Dude,
I was so stoked about that. But you know, and
that stuff was that stuff was great in itself, you know. Um,
but I really I really gravitated towards I think being
(09:09):
able to have those moments like at the end of
episode four eighteen where you know, there's a tough decision
to make, um and and you actually see Nathan um
making a good decision. Um. And you know, over time
he's making more and more good decisions. Um. And so
you know, yeah, I took that seriously and I thought
it was great, and I think in a way I
(09:29):
was I was you know, learning from it as well. Um,
you know, those those lessons and things. But it just
felt really good to be able to to to play
that character, um that made that evolution and see it
come to fruition in those ways. You know, it's like, yeah,
sure you want to see him go to duke. But
you know, even at twenty one, I understood that the
bigger um, the bigger thing here, the more important thing here,
(09:53):
was that he was doing the right thing. Um. And
so you know that that's sunk in that that resonated
with me. There's something we've We've gotten this question and
all of us have answered it, and a lot of
our guests have answered it, but we haven't had a
chance to talk with you. Can you just tell us
a little bit about how you got started on this show,
like what your audition process was like, and how this
whole job came about for you. Yeah? How much time
(10:17):
do we have? Yeah? Yeah, all any time in a world.
Yeah yeah. So I was like seventeen, I had done
I've done a few projects, I've done a couple of
pilots and things. You know, I was a senior in
high school and I wasn't I wasn't too stoked on
(10:40):
continuing acting. I've been doing it since I was like
six seven years old, and I really loved it. But
you know, it's tough. There's a lot of rejection, and
I wasn't an adult yet. I didn't really know how
to deal with that rejection. I was just sort of
tired of it by the time I was seventeen, and
so yeah, then one day this script came like through
(11:01):
the pipeline or whatever. It was mailed to me by
ups or so however it happened. Back used to get
hard coffees back when it was called Ravens. Oh my God,
call Ravens. I remember reading it just being like, all right,
I gotta like give this one a shot, this one's special,
and and just like you know, there was I was
(11:21):
such a I just love basketball so much and I
have a brother, and um, I loved that I grew
up into small town. There was so much about it
that resonated. So I went and read for lucas Um.
I didn't get lucas Um, and then I went and
read for Nathan and I went through a series of
auditions for Nathan UM. At a certain point in the
(11:44):
audition process, Um it got. It got through to me
through like bat channels that like I wasn't I was
like I was too nice, I was I was not
hard enough like to be this guy. Um, But they
liked me. By the way, this is like me and
my mom, Like my mom's with me in Los Angeles
as I'm like auditioning for this thing, and I think
it was actually my mom was like, look, if you
want this, you gotta go to your acting coach. You
(12:06):
gotta take a session and like take this seriously if
you're gonna do it, like do it right. So I
went to my coach and we worked it the night
before the test. Um I think I I think I
tested like five times. Jesus WHOA really yeah. Yeah. It
was like five different appointments over a few days. It
was like did you have chemistry tests with that or
(12:26):
was it just yours? It was just like me and
UM and one other actor, like going into a room
on the Warner Brothers lot and like just reading for
the same five people, like over and over again over
the course of like two days. Did they give you
notes every time. It was like go home and try it, like,
work on it this way, and then come back and
do it differently. I think, so five times, how does
(12:50):
that work? You know what they were doing the toll test.
They were doing the test to see winch kid was
going to flake first? You didn't flake? Is that why
they do that? Is? I mean, think about our job though,
you got to do the same thing over and over again.
There's a level of endurance that you have to have
in television that you don't have to have in film,
(13:11):
like pushing someone to their breaking point. You want it to, Yeah,
you wanted it. I wonder if there was anything going
on with those executives in the room who were like,
we got to hire someone who's a really convincing asshole.
Let's make sure in real life he's not a dick,
because if he is, it's going to be a nightmare.
Do you know? Like I feel like there's a little
(13:33):
bit of that too, Like we're actively asking people to
come in here and be awful, you know, Season one,
episode one, Nathan Scott, So maybe we should just keep
bringing them in here and see if they're actually nice.
They haze you, bro, I feel like all those reasons
are valid. Like, now that you've mentioned all those reasons,
I'm like, it's probably a good thing they brought me
in five times to make sure I could do the job. Yeah. Yeah, so,
(13:58):
but I think the last step to the process was
was Brian Robbins having me and this other actor go
to his house and play play him one on one
in his backyard. Wait. So the guy that you were
up AGAs, Yeah, yeah, who was really awesome, really really
awesome by the way. His name is Riley, and he's
(14:20):
just like he's older than me, and he was I
think he was like I don't know, he must spend
like in his early twenties at the time, but he
was just like you couldn't ask for a better actor
to be testing against when you're like a teenager, do
you know what I mean. Like it was more of
like us to just sort of like it didn't feel
like we were going after the same project. It just
(14:40):
sort of felt like we were both there just like
in it sort of together, which I thought was really cool.
And and he could ball for sure, and I was
not playing very hard and Brian Robbins, like I think
he scored a couple of points on me, and he
pulled me aside and he was like, if you want
this job, you're gonna have to play. I was like okay,
(15:01):
and so I started playing and it went, it went,
It went better for me after and then uh and
then yeah, and then it was just like go home
and wait to find out if he got the job. Yeah.
The rest is history. So, so did you have any
idea at that point? You know, you've got to go
work it to kind of get in the headspace, you know,
(15:23):
you've got a ball hard. Did you have any idea
past who Nathan was in the pilot? Did they give
you any inkling of who he would become? That he
that he would have this sort of, um, you know,
generational fork in the road and he could either become
his dad or go the opposite way. Did you know
he was gonna get married in high school? Like, did
(15:45):
they tell you anything or was it all a surprise
once the show got picked up. I didn't really Yeah,
it was it was all kind of a surprise, to
be honest. I didn't think about it that much, Like,
I don't remember being that concerned with it, um because
I was like just kind of I was having so
much fun playing this sohole of a kid. I was like,
he makes a great villain. So if I got to
(16:07):
be a villain, you know, I was kind of fine
with it. I wasn't look, I wasn't thinking things through
quite as much back then. Again, I was so young.
I was just kind of stoked to be there. But
I remember getting like, you know, some assurances here and
there that like, you know, this is not this is
not who this character is. Like this character isn't going
to like end up dead in a ditch somewhere as
(16:28):
he gets his come up, and you know this is
there's like an evolution for this character, and just thinking
like cool, right, wow right. I mean when we when
we went out to shoot the pilot, you were still
in school, and yeah, you were the only one of
us that was still in school, and so I remember
talking about like what are you going to do for prom?
(16:51):
What are you going to do for graduation? Because it
was all like it hadn't happened for you yet, and
the rest of us were twenty twenty one looking at
it in the rear view mirror, and so it was
great to have your energy there because you were still
pumped about that stuff. Yeah, did you just feel like
you never left high school for I mean fifteen years? Yeah, yeah, no,
(17:20):
I mean I called, I think, yeah, I called and
asked my prom date out from Wilmington because I was like,
I missed that time to like ask your prom date out,
and I was like I couldna make some phone calls, manum.
But but yeah, it was it was, I guess it was. Yeah,
it was strange. But the thing about like the show
(17:43):
was we shot on a college campus and like everyone
was a little bit older, even like you know, background
were a little bit older. Like we weren't really surrounded
by high school kids, so you know, and then when
we were like shooting on a high school set and
the class room scenes tripped me out a little bit.
Like I didn't like the classroom scenes because I I
(18:03):
didn't want to be in class period. But the rest
of it was separated enough from reality that I didn't
really feel like I was I was stuck in high
school for too long. Yeah. Do you remember the day
(18:24):
when we got the red pages that Nathan and Haley
were getting married. I do remember that. I do because
I remember I remember the red pages and being like,
what the hell is going on? I've never seen red pages. Well,
our trailers were attached, so because we were in so
many scenes together obviously that whatever you know, whenever you
for those of you listening, they tend tend to put
(18:45):
actors in They're called a double banger, and it's one side,
one side as one actor, in the other side as
the other actor, and they will put you in with
people that you usually work with a lot. So James
and I had shared a double banger, and um yeah,
I remember like busting out of my trailer door and
you happen to be walking out to the time. I
just remember being like, what did you say? This is
(19:08):
crazy crazy? Yeah, very and did you know what was coming? No? No,
I had no idea. I had no idea what was coming.
Um again, I remember having like a delayed reaction. I
think I remember being like, because you know, from I
feel like the makeup trailer is like the nerve center
(19:29):
of the set, right, and so it's like headquarters. Like
I process, especially at the time, I really process things
as they happen. I sort of like learned to react
to things based on how other people reacted to them,
and so I remember going into the makeup trailer and
being like oh, this is a big deal. I guess,
(19:52):
like people are really freaking out word. Yeah, yeah, that's funny.
I guess that's why they're red pants. Also, like from
up from I'm a boy's point of view. You know,
you've got this narrative of like high school romance, and
for the girls it's very romanticized. It's like Nathan sweeps
her off her feet and says all the right things
and all of that. Like, as a boy, you get
(20:15):
a storyline where your teenage boy character now has to
be married in high school. Like, what's your take on that?
Did you know any married people in high school? I don't. No, No,
I didn't, But I did grow up in a small town,
and to me, it wasn't like I don't yeah, to me,
(20:39):
it wouldn't have been that far removed, like would have
been that crazy of a thing to do, because new
plenty of people that got married, like the year after
high school was out, you know, yeah, I mean it
was still pretty wild. I think at the time, what
our characters were, characters like sophomores or juniors or something.
(20:59):
Juniors juniors, right, yeah, I mean that was like that
was definitely, you know, extraordinary. You guys, that's three years
out from where my son is like if we three
oh wow, yeah yeah, and from a modern perspective, yeah,
(21:19):
I mean the further and further away we get from it.
I like, I don't even know if that story would
track today, you know, like I don't even know how
many people it was. It was pretty pretty outrageous when
it happened back then. But I think now just be
like what you know? Um? But but yeah, I mean
I was I just thought it was an exciting step
(21:40):
because I don't think I necessarily like knew that it
was going to go well, you know, like I certainly
didn't know that it was going to be you know,
we would those characters would be married throughout the duration
of the show. Um, and so like to I feel like,
to me, it was just kind of like, okay, well
let's see where see where this goes? Like I don't
know if this is a caution, Mary Taylor, you know
(22:03):
what struck me watching you guys play those scenes in
this episode today, and it is interesting, like we have
such good hindsight now, right you look back and you go, well,
these are the things I weren't thinking about, and these
are the questions I'd ask today and oh my god,
we were all a bunch of idiots. How did we survive?
But I was watching you too do those scenes talking
(22:24):
about the point shaving in your future and getting ready
for a kid and all the things, and I think
one of the things I realized as an adult who's
had to you know, do the work. We talk so
much about therapy on this show as adults who had
to like go and do the work and learn things
and to learn to communicate really well, especially you know,
(22:45):
if you were raised in an environment where that wasn't
modeled for you. One of the things I love watching
Nathan and Haley do is communicate so well what you
guys modeled in terms of the way that you would
share and be vulnerable and learn that there was safety
and that vulnerability with your partner. I was like, God,
(23:06):
they are better at this than a lot of people are. Age. Yeah,
and it's so cool, Like you guys got to go
on this journey. And I think it's that it's seeing
that kind of communication and that love between two people.
That's probably why all the fans are so die hard
because it is inspiring. Like what's crazy about that, though,
(23:26):
is that it's so easy to do on camera. Well,
especially oh yeah, you know an actor like you, James,
or it's somebody that you know, you feel really comfortable with,
who's honest and good and like you know you can
connect with. And but it's it's so weird how it's
so easy to do that on camera and then in
real life when the stakes are actually high and real
(23:47):
and your emotions for real, your heart for real is
on the line, does all the walls go up, everything
shuts down? And I'm like, oh, I don't know how
to do that. Never practice that before in my whole life. Yeah,
suddenly you're like, words are words sound for talking? They're
just gone. It does really help when you have someone
else writing the right words for you. Yeah, wouldn't it
(24:09):
be fun every time you have an argument with your partner,
you just like, can we call in our writers room room?
To that end, though, James, we've been doing this show
and we've said over and over again that this is
our therapy, Like doing this podcast and looking back at
this chunk of time and our life has been our therapy.
But you created your own content, which feels kind of therapeutic.
(24:33):
As an outside observer the show that you and Stephen created,
like tell our listeners about that, but also, I mean
I would love to know if it's been cathartic to
kind of poke fun and analyze what our experience was
through a creative process. Yeah, well no, thank you for
bringing that up, and thank you for the question. I mean,
(24:54):
it's like the show is called everyone is Doing Great.
So I love that show. I really g I love it.
It's so good. Thank you, Joy. Yeah, it's it's been
it's been a really fun road. UM. And you know,
it's a it's an independent television show. So we pull
it together with our little filmmaker family and you know,
our our friends and loved ones are in it, and
(25:15):
you know, you know, hoping to make it happen. UM.
And we did the same thing the second season. But
it's basically about UM. Three actors that were on like
a Vampire Diaries type show which was like, you know,
a mega success and UM, and then they come off
the show and you know, it's it's it's like a
late coming of age. It's like they were in this
(25:36):
period of arrested development while they were on this show.
They weren't really forced to they were really facing the
real world. And then they come out of the show
and they're in their thirties and their you know, life
has not really turned out the way that they thought
it was going to. Um. And it's about them sort
of dealing with those things in very very different ways,
(25:56):
but always being pulled back together um by this like
shared history, Like they're the only ones that know the
experience that they went through on that show, and so
those roots will always be there and will always be
like pulling them back together. UM. And UM. It's it's
really raw and and you know, supposed to be funny,
supposed to make you laugh and feel good, um, at
(26:17):
the same time, it's like very dry and awkward. Um.
And it's just meant to just poke fun at all
those little moments in life that we might feel horrifying
at the time. Um. But you know when you look
back at it, you know you might it might be
a really funny story eventually, right. I mean it is
so funny for real life, Like what was when you
(26:40):
left One Tree Hill and you're like, that's it, I'm
done starting this new chapter, but I gotta make fun
of this in my new show, Like what was your
what was your punchline? What was the thing you had
to hit. Um there was I think it was, Um,
I think it was. I think it was mostly like
(27:01):
the for my character, it was the I guess, like
an expectation that like life's just gonna work out and
that you know, you can wait for good things to
come to you. Um, that was something that I sort
of that was a mindset that I had for a
while coming out of the show. Was just like, I mean,
(27:22):
it worked out for nine years, why isn't it. Yeah, Like,
what's a big deal? What's everybody so worried about? Um?
You know five years later you're like, Okay, I am bored.
Like I'm bored. We got to get something going in.
(27:45):
That's what you do so great on Everyone is Doing Great,
Which which I loved is that you took you take
an experience. It's so singular. There's a very few people
who have the experience that we all had growing up
as teenagers in early twenties on a TV show that
lasted for so long and pacted our young life in
that way. But you made it relatable. So you're taking
the same experience. That seems so kind of bizarre that
(28:08):
almost nobody has had this experience, But when you watch
the show, you're still getting moments of lessons like what
you're talking about in a really fun way where everybody,
no matter what career you're in, can relate to the
idea of like, oh, yeah, you just have to like, oh,
it worked out here, so I guess I just wait
and then you're like I'm still waiting. Oh wait, I'm
still waiting. I got to take a bole by the
(28:28):
horns and get out there. No thanks. That's That's exactly
what we wanted people to We want people to be
able to grab onto it, and we wanted it to
have you know, we wanted to be relatable. We didn't
want it to be entourage. We wanted it to just
be a story about like people, which is you know whatever,
yeah we have because everybody's been asked to do things
that are embarrassing and I mean, oh my god, that
(28:50):
scene where Steven has to do that audition used to
like make out on the floor for an audition, like,
please tell me that was a real did that really happen? Well?
And those were the other things that inspired us to
do it, you know, like there was like a broad
sort of like meta stuff that was like, oh, this
is like the emotional reason for doing this. But then
there was just like the years and years of stories
that we had from this industry and situations that we
(29:12):
found ourselves in, and that was one of them that actually,
like that didn't happen that way to Stephen, but he
had an experience that was similar in an audition and
it was just like the greatest story that we ever had,
And we're like, how is this not on camera somewhere?
How was somebody not already done this? Like we kind
of I feel like the show wouldn't have happened if
(29:32):
it wasn't for him having that experience. Oh are you
so scared of our old audition tapes coming to light
one day? Because I think about auditions like that where
we would have to pretend there was a monster, or
we would have oh yeah, or pretend you had a gun,
oh god, like roll around like a Charlie's Angel. So
you remember the horror film they did that all took
(29:55):
place on the ski lift and you had to sit
in a chair in the audition and like pretend that
wolves were trying to bite your feet. Because Daniela and
I were in that audition together, It's just like I
feel like COLLETTI auditions for that one too, but like
that sense of absurdity sometimes going to bite us in
the ass. You guys, it's going to happen. Well, I
(30:16):
hope it happens to all of us at once, so
that at least it's like we can all laugh about it.
That would be so how committed we are. I think
that's why the show and what you guys have done
with it, it it gives me that feeling of like like
I don't know how to verbalize that, but when you
just go oh god, and it feels funny but also borrowed,
(30:39):
it's just so intense, yes, exactly where you're like, what
is happening to me? Because it is there's so much
about what we do that is ridiculous and that's universal.
And a friend of mine is a writer and she
wrote a really specific TV show and she said the
best advice she ever got from her mentor is that
the unique is universal. You guys have taken this very
(31:01):
unique situation that very few people understand, and like the
nine years we all spent together, and then you've put
this comedic lens on it, and it does I don't
know why. It just feels so universal. Everybody I know
who's watched the show, it's like, oh man, that one
got me or did you see that episode, Like, oh
that stressed me out, Like it's just it's so funny.
(31:22):
So that's awesome. That's I mean, that's exactly where we
were going for um I think, I don't know. I mean,
you you will have creative ventures sometimes, like you're just
you're inspired to go into something and you don't always
know exactly what it is, but you just know that
you're like you're just compelled to do it. And I
guess because it's like trying, something's trying to come out
(31:44):
of you. And by the time we got to the
end of that first season, we had watched the episodes
over and over and over again. You know, it was
always we were always really concerned by the fact that
it was industry adjacent or whatever, and we just we
didn't want it to feel too inside baseball. Yeah. I
remember after when the show is about to come out,
being like I guess, just realizing like, Okay, we just
(32:06):
made a show about life, Like we just made a
show about starting over at the end of the day,
and hopefully people will see that. So um so I'm
really yeah, thank you guys. How many of those did
you direct? Are you are you guys taking turns directing that?
Or are you on deck the whole time? The first
season it was Steven and I UM I directed most
(32:26):
of the episodes and then Stephen directed one, and then
this season we really handed the like Stevens directing UM,
one of our producers, Michelle Lange, is directing, and other
producer Johnny Durango is directing. Took my hands off the
wheel there, because you know, acting and directing at the
same time is always a challenge, but with this we
(32:51):
do a lot of it. It's it's kind of improv based.
We we do the show based on like really detailed outlines,
so we have a script, but it's not really script
format UM and I think that we try to just
encourage actors to like it's like you're reading the page
of a novel and you're like, Okay, here's all the
information that I'm getting across. But really it's like, I
(33:13):
gotta see the story in my head, and I gotta
I gotta tell the story the way that I would so,
oh my god, James, that's like the perfect hybrid of
Laguna Beach in One Tree Hill Kids outlines and be like, go,
you know, yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, Stephen,
(33:33):
you know, we we had that discussion while um, you know,
we were sort of like coming up with the format
and this is not a totally original format, you know,
like there are other filmmakers that do this and do
it really really well. Um, and we were inspired by them.
But but you know, I remember Stephen saying, you know
early on, like this is like not far off from
what Moving to Beach was, you know, like and uh
(33:56):
so yeah. And the actually our our director of photograph
for the second season, Gareth Cox. He's a director of
photography for this show called CSA Key on MTV with
My husband is obsessed obsessed. Oh I love it. Yeah,
that's the one, right, It's about its occasially lauda Beach
(34:17):
in the Four Keys. Dude. Yeah. J d M is
a big fan of CRS. I love how much he
loves trashy reality. God, I love it so much. And
you believe he's never watched ours, um, James, speaking of
funny storylines, obviously, we make a lot of fun of
ourselves on this podcast, and your character has been through
(34:38):
some wild adventures, whether you're doing shit with Chris Keller,
or you're getting beat up by Rick Fox, like well
the Russian Mafia. Yeah, Like what were the storylines for
you that you look back on now as a grown
up and you're just like, oh god, Yeah, I mean
is there anything you ever went in and you were
(34:58):
like really really like his anyway we can? Yeah, I
mean there was a couple, um, you know, even even
some of the wilder stuff we did, you know, like
the Rick Fox of it all, or like you know,
being you know, held hostage by serbian gangsters. Like there
was always something fun to find in there, and and
(35:19):
honestly it always tested me the most. Like I found
it much easier to you know, you know, play um,
you know, an emotional scene with you Joy than I did,
you know, having to get emotional and scenes like that
because I'd never done like an action movie. I'd never
done a horror movie or anything like that. Like I'd
never conjured up those emotions from a situation that you
(35:44):
know is absurd on set, right. Yeah, you gotta like
your challenge is to really make that real. Like it's
it's not hard to make something real with you, Joy,
but it's hard to make something real, you know, with
with other situations, and so I always felt like going
into those I was nervous, but at the same time
it was like, all right, how are we gonna how
(36:05):
are we gonna do this? Like how we like we
got to make the audience believe this and so yeah,
well and for our friends at home. One of the
things when you reference why some of that stuff can
be hard, you know, to your point, if you guys
are shooting a scene as Nathan and Haley, you're in
close quarters, you're looking at each other, you get to
react to what she's doing. She gets to react to
what you're doing. One of the things people don't know about,
(36:27):
you know, the Rick Fox storyline, for example, is they'll
do the crash, but they only do the crash in
the wide shots because there's one vehicle, and so you'll
be on camera and you're close up, and they'll be
like someone's running by with a tennis ball on a
c stand for your eyeline, and then they go and boom,
and you're supposed to react like you're watching your wife
(36:47):
get hit by a car, but it's there's nothing happening,
and it's so insane. So the challenge to create realism
you know how big it's wild? Yeah, seriously, Yeah, that's
that's that's the biggest challenge I feel like. And then
you know, like like to use that as an example,
you have the crash which you're supposed to react to, um,
(37:10):
and then they go around and they cover every single
actor who's there reacting to it. And then two hours later,
you're still reacting to the crash that happened, you know,
earlier in the day or whatever it could be, six
hours later and you're like, I'm still supposed to be
up or you have no idea what the crash is
going to look like. They just sort of give you
an idea of it. But then you see the stunt
(37:32):
that they do later and you're like, I would have
had a way bigger reaction, you know. Smaller reaction, yeah,
always great when they shoot the action lasts, so they're like, Okay,
react to the thing that's going to happen, and you're like,
but I haven't seen it yet. He just had to
make it up, James. We solicited for questions for this episode,
(38:00):
and we solicit for questions for all of our guests. UM,
We've never had an avalanche like this before. So we're
going to do some rapid fire fan questions. Well boys
should idea. Yeah, let's feel like you just blow through them.
But I want to start I peruse these. I have
a question that I need to ask. Um. Okay, listen,
you always had strong little brother energy for me because
(38:22):
I met you as like a child. But Marissa would
love to know about your thoughts on your hair in
season four because when you showed up with long hair,
that was the first time I was like, oh my god,
James is like hot, James is like dangerous, excellent hair,
dangerous lafferty. I have a note here, hair question mark. Well, no,
(38:45):
no question mark, no question mark, hair exclamation point. Yeah,
loved it. Hey, is that what we're calling this episode?
Hair exclamation boy? Yeah? It was like suddenly, I don't
know what that was, you know what, you know what
I think it was. It was I think they were
growing my hair. I was growing my hair out in
anticipation for season five. Yeah, when they were going to
(39:06):
flash back and forth between when Um, I had like,
what was it they needed to show, you know, they
needed to show that there was like a difference in
the timelines and so oh and I was like, I
had really long hair because I had fallen. You know,
I was like in a wheelchair and I was not
taking care of myself, and so yeah, they decided that
(39:27):
it was going to be easier. Oh god, they didn't
want to wig me because the wig would look fake.
So they needed me to grow my hair out long
enough so that they could attach extensions to it. Um.
And then that way they could go back and forth
between haftensions. Yeah, I had extensions, and then they and
(39:49):
then they then they cut my hair, my actual head
hair into tiny, tiny little pieces um, and they put
in a little tray with some glue on it, and
then they took a paintbrush and then they paint did
the glue hair on my face. That's how I had
that big beard. It was awesome. That's that's so I
was like there like three three hours early every day. Wow,
(40:12):
they have the extensions and then get that glue on
the face and then why didn't you just grow? Oh?
Because they had to go back and forth, so they couldn't. Yeah,
and I also couldn't grow a beard. Oh you couldn't.
I mean I could maybe grow like it wouldn't have
been a fun beard to TV, for sure, that's so funny.
It was a hit. Okay, if you could have chosen
(40:33):
to direct the pilot or the finale, which one the pilot?
I guess? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I think the
pilot because um yeah, I don't know. Okay, it's a
rapid fire. You don't have to explain yourself. Yeah yeah, okay,
Oh sorry knocking them out. Were there any storylines that
the writers pitched to you for Nathan that then didn't
(40:56):
wind up happening but you wished you'd gotten to film? No,
I don't think so. There was talk of Nathan like
making it to the NBA, but I don't think the
NBA would really, Um, let us do what we needed
to do to make that storyline happen. That would have
been cool, but but what it didn't happen, so so
(41:17):
I guess maybe that maybe that can see. Yeah, did
you keep anything from set? I kept some. I kept
the signature sneakers that Nathan had in season at the
beginning of season five when he was like when it
was all good, he got his contract and his shoe
deal and stuff, So I yeah, I kept what other
character besides Nathan? Would you want to play Whitey? Oh?
(41:42):
I was watching the episode last night. I was like, God,
I love this guy like I love Barry and I
love Whitey. Did you ever go drinking with Whitey? I did? Yeah, Yeah,
a couple of times. We didn't run in the same circles,
but I definitely, I definitely saw him out. Yeah. Sure,
Oh that's so fun. Okay, that's a perfect segue into
(42:04):
Will's question. Whitey was an important coach and figure in
Nathan's life. Who has been a similar coach or figure
in your life? Oh? Good question. Yeah, I guess. Uh,
you know, my acting coach Andrew mcgarrian was a big,
you know influence on me and especially in as a
young person in this industry. Just um taught me a
(42:24):
lot of m foundational stuff about you know, acting, but
also about how to be a professional. So yeah, hmm, yeah,
that's awesome. Well he nailed that. Yeah. I mean, for sure, James,
everyone everyone in our industry working at the age that
we were working at stop in one way or another.
(42:46):
And you are one of the few unicorns that never
do you never? No, that's not true. I mean every
I was young, you know, like I was not. I
was certainly certainly not perfect. But um, but I had.
I definitely had. You know, you always had a good
head on your shoulders. Yeah, you know, good family. I've
(43:08):
been really, really fortunate in life, so I think that
that helped, and you know, people like Andrew helped, and
you know, there was good influences on the show as well.
Like you know, um, I'll never forget Kriig Shefferd telling
me to save my money. But that all stuck with me,
It really did. He had a great explanation for it.
And he didn't tell me in like a condescending way
(43:30):
or in a way that you know, made me feel
like I didn't know anything. He was. He was genuinely
trying to help me. Um, And at the time you
probably thought, like, this kid's never gonna hear a word
I'm saying. But I heard him like loud and clear.
So getting that advice from Craig from this perspective that
you're in today, we have a last kind of maybe
(43:52):
a perfect last fan question is what advice would you
give Nathan today about life? Oh? Man, I feel like
I should be getting advice from Nathan, not giving it
to him, or give advice to a young version of
yourself even right right, It's like Yeah, anything I could
say to Nathan. I feel like he already kind of knew,
but I feel like I would say or maybe remind him,
(44:14):
or remind anyone that, like anything, anything worth doing is
going to probably be pretty hard, and it's going to
take a lot of time and dedication, but you can
definitely do it um and just try to just just
try not to lose yourself along the way, you know,
just no matter how hard it gets, and no matter
(44:36):
how you know, I guess how much it feels like
you're not going to get there sometimes, just try to
be kind to yourself and be kind to others and
and and you'll you'll get there. Like it'll happen, and
it might happen in a way that you don't expect,
but it's going to happen. Well, James, it's like the
perfect advicement for this episode. Hey, listen, we're so excited
(44:57):
that we have you because everyone's been asked few for
years now. Yes, we just watched for eighteen. Would you
stay and do a recap episode off eighteen with us? Oh?
Absolutely perfect, perfect, Let's rock it out, all right, kids,
We'll see you next week with four eighteen. Hey, thanks
(45:17):
for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You
can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens oth
or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com.
See you next time. We all about that high school drama.
Girl Drama, Girl, all about them high school queens Forever.
We'll take you for a ride at our comic girl
(45:39):
Ram cheering for the righteen drama queens up girl fashion,
but your tough girl, You could sit with us Girl Drama, Queens, Drama,
Queens Drama, Queens Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama Queens
Hosts And Creators
Bethany Joy Lenz
Sophia Bush
Robert Buckley
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