Our Favorite Things • EP302

Are you a Carrie, Miranda, Samantha or Charlotte?!  This is still OTH...don't worry...but, is Brooke all of them!?
 
The more Haley finds herself and her confidence, the more Nathan can't seem to deal! Joy can relate.
 
And then, Peyton at the party. Hilarie has a FAB behind-the-scenes story about her DJ booth at that beach bonfire.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
First of all, you don't know me. Were all about
that high school drama, Girl Drama, Girl, all about them
high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in
our comic Girl Cheering for the drama Queens up Girl Fashion,
but you'll tough, girl. You can sit with us Girl Drama, Queens, Drama,
Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama Drawn MC, Queen's Drama, Queens Hi,

(00:27):
Welcome back to Drama Queen's Everybody. We are into three.
Love it, Love it. I love it too. I love
everything about the wardrobe is good. The acting is good,
the storylines are good, dialog, hair point the hair. It's
so good. I'm loving it. Seasons Okay, this one's episode two.

(00:49):
So it's from the Edge of the Deep Green Sea
Air Day Dctumber twelve, two five. The synopsis here is
that it's the end of Summer party, the famous end
of Summer party on the b each Nathan comes home
from High Flyers, but he doesn't tell Haley and he
still doesn't know where he stands on their marriage. Lucas
makes a convincing statement to Brooke, and Peyton finds out

(01:14):
Ellie is using drugs again or still Dan thinks he
realizes who left him in the fire. Dan plays detective Um.
This is a great episode. Tim is back, Peyton is
the worst DJ ever. We have some great stuff with
Kevin Kilner. It's great, let's go. I love this episode.

(01:36):
I love like people ask all the time, like what's
your favorite episode you guys have ever done? And I
never think of this one? Why don't I ever think
of this one? Because it was a long time ago.
It was just hard. It's impossible to remember all of them.
But that's what's so great about watching these shows back
is being able to remember. So now we've got some
answers for people when it's like it's reconnecting memories and

(01:56):
there's so much sense memory in this Yeah, we all
we all knew Haley's outfit was coming, and knew the
beach bonfire was this big moment. We were so excited
when the episode started. Oh my god, the doors and
then I didn't even know I lit the bonfire. Of
all the things I remembered about this episode, I was like, wait,

(02:17):
it's me I did. It's crazy. It's like we were
remembering our favorite things and then genuinely finding all the
things we forgot. We had discoveries this episode. First of all,
I noticed when like Brooke and Lucas are kissing in
the house or in the apartment, and the Hayley walks

(02:40):
in and she's like making all these snide comments. I'm like,
oh my god, it's Joy. Like they just decided, They're like,
we're just going to script Hayley as joined now and
these like zigger friends are just flying off. And it's
such good writing for you in this episode because you
go from being like, you know, the funny one liner

(03:01):
friend to having to do some real heavy lifting with
the Nathan, like the deep Nathan talk and like chasing
him the entire episode. I think I'm chasing him for
longer than this episode. I think that this keeps going
for a while. And it's really hard to watch. Oh yeah,
oh my god with Hilary. When you looked at Joy

(03:23):
and that scene at the end, you go you can't
blame him or whatever you say. I was like, oh god,
it hurts to be on the receiving end of that anger.
But it's interesting to see and you start to realize
it watching the episode, and then you know, you realize
you're on the same page as the writers. When Haley
and Lucas literally wind up standing together. They're having a

(03:47):
similar experience trying to earn back the love of the
people they've hurt. And it's so beautiful to watch the
parallels because everyone in a way I was trying to
figure out how to reclaim that intimate territory, even Peyton
and Ellie. Ellie's trying to get back in and it. God,

(04:10):
the episode is just really well done. Kevin Dowling. I
loved his shots, loved his transitions. He you know what's great.
Some of my favorite things about good directors is that
you don't feel the direction. There's a difference between somebody
who's who's maybe new or I guess new or season
doesn't really necessarily make a difference. It's more someone who

(04:33):
knows how to get out of the way. They're just
showing you the story without trying to show off like
fancy camera moves or you know, you can the market.
One of the marks of a really good director is
someone who can do with the fancy stuff without the
audience noticing that it's being done. Yeah, and I felt
a lot of that. Well, just the shot from Dan's

(04:53):
Dan's fire to Sophiel holding the torch at the beach
party was masterful. Yeah, yeah, I thought so too. I
really liked it. Yeah, it was a lot of beautiful
camera work, but it fits so well, the transitions, the movement.
It was in flow, and so even the shots that

(05:15):
were fancy didn't jump out at you because you were
on the right. The shots are fancy, like a fancy shot.
Um I okay. I want to start talking a little
bit about the Peyton and and her dad and Larry relationship.
I just loved Kevin Kilner in this episode. I love

(05:37):
him more and more every time we see him. And
you know, as much as we loved Thomas, you know,
we we have the situation that we have and we're
I'm so grateful that we got Kevin Kilner because he's
such a strong actor. But he also brings this really
um what's the word I'm looking for. He brings this

(05:59):
dad ad energy that's like the dad you want. He's protective,
he's showing up. He's so loving and engaged, but he
doesn't take any and it's it's very grounded. Kevin Kilner
built an intimacy with you that really looks like a
father and a daughter. It doesn't look like a guy
playing a dad. He feels like your dad and you.

(06:23):
What I love seeing about you and your scenes with him,
Hillary is that because Peyton finally has a real parental figure,
you don't have to act like the grown up in
the room. We see Peyton as a teenage girl who
is hurt and scared and angsty and breaking. She doesn't
know where to put a feelings. It's like, you look

(06:43):
so young because you've got a real dad to play off.
I hate watching TV shows where parents are just all
shucks and super cute see with the kids because it
sets up a false expectation. When I see it on TV.
Even my kids are watching TV, I'm like, bullsh Yeah,

(07:03):
you know that's not love. Also, when the kids are
super disrespectful to their parents, are throwing a fit or
having a heart even I wouldn't say Peyton was throwing
a fit but having going through a rough moment, but
like the parents, and a lot of these shows are like, oh, well,
I guess I'll get out of the way and let
you have. Like to have a parent that turns around
and shows up and says I care enough about you

(07:24):
to to acknowledge the fact that you are acting like this,
that you're being disrespectful, that you're misbehaving. You know, I
love you, and you have to look at the bigger
picture besides just what you see in front of you.
Right now, we need parents like that. Yeah, Tantrum is
a part of the human experience, whether you're an infant
or you're a teenager and you're acting out, or you're

(07:45):
an adult and you're still relying on the same coping
mechanisms who use as a child, like we all tantrum.
I have been in tantrum in the last week just
because I'm like, man, this isn't going my way, um,
And it is so important for the people that love
you to be able to show up and communicate clearly
with you. And Larry's doing that, and even Kilner so

(08:06):
quickly earned my respect because he was like a New
York guy. He was like a theater actor and he
had these chops and just like immediately put me on
my heels and he was like, watch what I can do. However,
the thing we all talked about while watching this was
I cannot separate him from Greenberg right now, like like

(08:28):
it has ruined any Jake crush that I had because
I am seeing dad Larry just like, oh no, they're
the same person. And the whole time I'm watching Larry
reprimand Peyton and be like, don't you dare like question
the judgments that we made. You don't know, Ellie, she's
a drug addict. She's dangerous. My job is to protect you.

(08:50):
That woman is a threat. All I can do is
here Jake talking to sixteen seventeen year old Jenny being like,
you don't know what I know about your mother? Do
you know what I mean? Like? Yes, And I think
Kevin Kilner when we filmed this is very close in
age to how Greenberg is now and just the similarities are.

(09:13):
It's wild. And you know, I love that they gave
him that moment with you of saying, one day you're
going to be a grown up and you're not going
to have all the answers either, Because we do, especially
when we're young and we don't know yet that our
parents are just people trying to figure it out. We

(09:34):
lionize them. We assume they know everything. We we looked
to them like we did when we were little, like
you keep me alive, and then as you get you
keep me alive, you must know everything? And then Wow.
And then you know, you get older and you're like, oh,
are you as confused as me? And they let you

(09:55):
take a baby home from the hospital really sing you
realize nobody knows what they're doing. And and I love
that in that moment of hurt and anger and confusion
for her, he in his own anger and in his
own defense of her mother is saying like, you'll be

(10:15):
the person who doesn't know the right thing to do someday. Yeah.
I thought that was beautiful. It's kind of the secret
to life, I think in a lot of ways, and
realizing hitting that moment where you realize, oh, nobody has
all the answers. That's that is the thing, is that
we're all just trying to figure it out. And yeah,

(10:35):
as kids, you look to your parents as these are
the people who have and and that has to exist
to some degree. There have to be structure and boundaries.
You can't just be a free for all for kids.
But to be able to have that realization moment which
happens for a lot of us in high school and
college and you go, oh, okay, but have you guys

(10:55):
experienced that in real life now? Because because I'm living
this parallel all universe from when we were on the show.
Remember when we were playing teenagers and we had older
women like Jojo and Kelly Jefferson, our makeup artist, and
Jane back in wardrobe, and these women who were a
little bit older than us telling us like be nice
to each other, be a good like sister friend, like

(11:17):
show up, you know, Like they were like giving us
all this advice. And they were just like, it's not
that bad. Y'all are so melodramatic, and they were. They
were telling us. I mean, I remember Jojo telling us like,
we're shorter skirts while your legs still look good, you know,
And so they're like giving us. She was like, you're
gonna want this on film, you know, and showed up, babe.

(11:38):
So we had that your mama gave you. We had
these They weren't parental figures, but they were certainly people
that we looked to and trusted. Right, I've got all
these like girls and like actually just young people in
their early twenties right now that I'm working with, and
I hear myself saying all the same things. It's just
this like constant cycle of Joe Joe is ms and

(12:01):
just like you know, on repeat, I wonder, like I
wonder what the next cycle is, Like I don't know
what the next cycle is. Who are we looking to
right now that we're going to be in fifteen twenty years?
I don't know. Is it all the women who just
don't care anymore? They just maybe that joy like fingers crossed,

(12:22):
like let's just let's go be real. It's funny like
when you say who are we looking to? Like I
think about women in my life who, yeah, are in
that bracket above us, who I'm watching do such interesting
things with their personal brand of leadership. Like I had

(12:47):
Kirsten Jilla Brand on the podcast a couple of years ago,
and like it's weird to me that I can text
the state senator, but like I have questions about things
going on in America and I'm like, hey, run, can
I ask you something? And she's such a badass and
she's just like, well, we could propose a bill, we
could solve it this way, and here's the thing. And

(13:08):
and to see this woman who is, you know, a mentor,
she's on that cusp like Jojo and all those ladies
were of being a mentor and a friend, you know,
And I just watched her like lead a state and
be a great mom and and lean into serving people.
And then you know, you flip it, like in our
own industry and you look at what Rhese Witherspoon is

(13:30):
built with her production company, and she was like, yeah,
I was arguable, in arguably one of the most successful
actresses in the industry and couldn't get jobs that were
interesting and everyone was demeaning to women, and so I
just made cool shows about women. And so I love
being able to look at those women who are just
like ten to fifteen years ahead of us, and they're

(13:53):
nailing it, and I'm like, yeah, we're gonna be fine,
But they also still don't have the answers you know, like,
well he does. Yeah. It's it's that realization. It's like
when you're a little kid, when you're a little like
teenager baby, you think you're supposed to have them, and
you get really paranoid that you don't, and then you're
in your twenties and you're like, but where are they.
I'm still looking, and then you hit our age and

(14:14):
you're like, oh, oh, I should have listened, Like they're nowhere.
They're missed. I think it just breathed. Then it once
you hit that point where we're at now, maybe it
just breeds. That's the where it breeds the confidence to go,
oh well, then I have nothing to be afraid of.
I can just go ask all the questions. I can
just go for it in every area instead of so

(14:35):
it's that's the natural progression, is that there is so
much fear and so many things that we're holding onto
when we're young, and once you hit that point where
it's like, oh wait, nothing none of that matters. I
can just I can just like go for it and
do whatever I want and see how it all turns
out okay. And I think that's probably what the next
twenty years holds for us. I think one of the
greatest AHA moments in my life was when I realized

(14:59):
the most empowering thing I could say to anyone, and
the thing I love to hear the most from other
people is I don't know a lot about that. Will
you tell me more? Yeah, that's a sexy thing to say.
When somebody's like, I have no idea what the answer is,
let's figure it out together, I'm just like, oh my god, glorious.

(15:20):
And I do think you're right. Joy I think that
that comes with age. I think it comes with understanding
that the fear that you're the only one in the
room who doesn't know everything or have it all together
is a total myth. And once you realize it's a myth,
you're you're free of it. Yeah, because so much of
our identity as we're growing up is built around what

(15:43):
we wanting other people to like us and wanting to
fit into whatever group it is. It. Yeah, and it's
scary to be in a room with people that where
you feel like you're the only one who doesn't know
what's going on or doesn't and so we will make
things up or we you know, we come up with
things to make a sound like we know what we're
talking about. It is so nice to just be able

(16:04):
to say, you know, I just don't know enough about
that to to talk about it, but I'm super interested
in what you have to say, and you know, I'm
learning as I go. That's super engaging, I think. And
I think when we think about being in this moment
where we're looking back remembering how we felt and also
the teens we were playing, you see it as as

(16:26):
a marker of age. You know, there's that scene at
the bonfire where Brooke and Lucas are talking and he
wants to seem cool and she's saying she's having a
great time, but she really just wants him to say,
we leave with me, but he doesn't. He's like, you
do you? You know, have a good night, and the
letdown on her face is so apparent, and you can

(16:49):
see that it's hard for him to say it. And
there are two people who aren't willing to admit that
they don't know what the other person is feeling, so
they're blowing it. They won't just ask because it's too vulnerable.
Haley are doing the exact opposite things like Haley's like, no, no, no,
I'm gonna tell you exactly what I want. We're going
to be together and I'm not going anywhere and I'm
calling my shot. Meanwhile, Brooks like, I don't know. Guess.

(17:22):
When I'm watching Haley in this episode, I feel like
she really was coming into her confidence because of everything
that she's been through. There's a little bit of that Okay,
I took the risk, I took the leap, and now
seeing her blossom into that, uh, not just her you know,
the snarkiness and her personality or like, you know, she's
much more comfortable in her skin, and she's comfortable being

(17:44):
able to say like, Okay, I'm going out of a limb,
I'm gonna tell you exactly what I'm looking for, which
is very different from first season Haley, who was a lot,
a lot more scared, a lot, more like kept everything
really close to the vest, and now she's just like
hard on her sleeve, going for it. Just kind of
cool because I don't know if she would have been
able to fight for her marriage in that way if

(18:05):
something had happened before. It's like she needed to go
through this experience of putting herself out there on stage
and for the world, and now she can do it
in her personal life well, and she needed something that
was just for her so she could know that it
was her as an individual that chose her marriage, not

(18:27):
her in partnership choosing a partner. It's Haley the individual
choosing Nathan, the individual. She'd always been in partnership before that.
And it's cool because she's like, no, now I know
what I want, exactly what I want. I don't even
care if it's what you want, it's what I want,
And this is where we're going and it's it's it
is it's a confidence that's new, and it's it's bold,

(18:50):
and it's sexy and it's so appealing. If this storyline
of like Haley and Nathan breaking up had happened in
like season six, when we had totally jumped the ark,
you would have gone totally like burning bunnies on him,
like they turned everything up to eleven in the later seasons.
So I love do you know what I mean? Like

(19:12):
they would have had talking Nathan and being like, we're
gonna be together. So I like subtle but firm Haley.
I appreciate season three Haley with her good hair and
awesome outfits and that great bill on the beach. I
love it, love that outfit. Okay, why do you think

(19:34):
that Nathan can't get over it because he's a dude.
Look what what is it about men that has that heart?
Because I've been I've you know, I'll be brief, but
I've been through a scenario like this before romantically, where
you know, I dated someone for a while and I
really there were some things that I just really wasn't
sure about, some red flags and some stuff, and so

(19:56):
I ended things. And then a couple of weeks later,
I was like, listen, you know at this break really
isn't working for me. I'm actually super in love with
you and I want to figure out how to make
this work. And he was like, uh, I just kind
of got over you, Like it took me a minute.
It was really really really intense, and then I got
over you. And now I'm like, not really sure if
we can just go. I can't like jump right back

(20:18):
in because I finally person. I want to punch this
person to know. I did too, because we spent the
next like two years trying to figure out how to
be together, and finally it was just like, oh, I
give up, but like, well I can't. I can't keep
you can like it is now scorched earth, goodbye. Yeah exactly,
I know, but you know what I mean. I don't know,

(20:40):
but you want to do anything. They have like a
they have this wall, but I think people have people
like It's one thing if someone says I'm not sure,
I'm scared, I don't want to do this, and then
as you're saying you did, comes back and you say, actually,
I was scared because I'm so in love with you
and I'm still in love with you and I learned
something that's a person having an emotional experiences, Like that's

(21:06):
how every flow. But there's but there's also the reality
of when someone breaks your trust. Maybe that's emotional trust,
but also there's trust trust. And Nathan is sitting here, going,
you cheated on me with someone. You kissed another man
and then left with him, and like look different. Yeah,

(21:30):
it's different. And I know in the world of like cheating,
it's tame. It's a kiss. It's not like you know,
she went and slept with this person or had a
month's long affair with this person. Granted it may have
been an emotional affair, but like, if we're talking about
I've been through infidelity, you want to see my scorched earth,
Like the door is closed, the drawbridges down, I've put

(21:53):
alligators in the mode, and I will kill you if
you come close to me, Like it's just like a bye,
it's by alligators in your Oh yeah, alligators in the moment.
I'm just like, I'm like, try coming to the castle.
I'll kill you. So look, could I get over it?

(22:15):
If someone said I made a mistake and I got
kissed or it happened, and then he was like no,
I don't want to do that. I could probably get
over that. I would be bummed. I don't know if
I could get over it if my partner was like,
this thing happened and it was really uncomfortable. And then
I realized it was uncomfortable and I got out of
it as quickly as I could, and then was like,
but I am going to go on the book tour

(22:36):
with this person. I'd be like what he so, Yeah,
I don't know. I hear what you're saying. Because the
first club, the kisses, the thing, the tours, the thing,
the tour with the kiss guy. Yeah, that's the choice.
It's a big choice. God. Well, here I was feeling

(22:57):
real bad about how bitchy Peyton was, and now Sophia
just talked me right out about emotion I'm good with
Peyton was the alligator in the most hotel in this episode.
You're right, that was a big that's a really big deal.
And for a high schooler, and especially somebody like Nathan
who hasn't been emotionally vulnerable with anyone except this girl,

(23:19):
like he finally made it all out for her. And
then she was like, Okay, but just sit here with
your emotions. And deal with it because I gotta go
on this bus with this guy you're very threatened by. Yeah, guys,
we have to do an abbreviated version of these episodes
as grown as women were we talking about doing like

(23:43):
drunk history, but drunk ot history. Okay, but you're gonna
have to sit here. Awesome, just awesome. Don't be mad.
I'm just gonna go get on this bus with the guy.
I don't think it's in the one time you need
to relax. I see you. When I see you, everything's fine.

(24:11):
You know. I love it a lot. You know. What
I think is interesting though, is like joy even hearing
your perspective where you're going. Why can't he get over it?
Because as a viewer, how she feels for him is
so apparent to you and to the two of us.
And that's why it works. I think that's why the
audience always rooted for them, because the audience knew what

(24:35):
Nathan didn't, which was she didn't mean it. She didn't
love that guy. She loves you. Everybody makes mistakes and
and and it it's such a fun relationship to watch
because he's going to heal the way he needs to,
and he's going to take the time he needs to,
but we all as viewers unequivocally know that he's the

(24:57):
guy for her. And it's was sad me not the television.
It's like when you see someone go into a wanted house.
You you're like, because the babies that are going upstairs,
you know. It almost makes Antoine's philosophy of only reading
your parts of the script makes so much sense, because
how could James play this frigidness with Haley if he

(25:19):
knew all the things that we know that we see. Um,
that makes total sense. He's doing a great job, though,
I mean, that is cold. Angry. James is the scariest, Like,
you don't you don't want to You're like, please, don't
ever be mad at me. Now listen. Once he levels
up into Kevin Kilner territory and starts playing mad Dad,

(25:41):
you just signed me right up because I made James
Lapperton as mad Dad. For sure. James doesn't explode. James
is just done. Yes, he just you know what I mean.
And Nathan is the same way. It's like, there's no explosion.
It's oh no, the the walls, the drop ridges up,

(26:02):
there's alligators in the moat and yeah, there's no similar.
It's It's actually very funny because seeing Brooke and Nathan
in their parallel in this episode, then winding up alone
together watching Haley and Lucas walk off, I remembered I
loved that moment, but you know what bummed me out.

(26:23):
I do remember we shared a moment James and I.
You know, Brooke is standing there. Lucas has just left
and said I'm the guy for you and you're going
to see, you know, and she's wondering if she can
trust him. Haley has said I'm not going anywhere, and
Nathan's like, yeah, okay. He's like he's got to wait
and see. Is she really going to say? Are these

(26:45):
two going to prove it to two? Broke into Nathan
and I remember in the blocking when Lucas walks away
from Brooke standing there, you know, the she kind of
she I, it's so weird to talk about our characters.
I like took a step from the Lifeguard boys. She I,
we we Brooke and eye. Um we walked away from
the Lifeguards and then the screen Yeah, I'm so confused.

(27:11):
Whatever um And then James walks up to me and
we watched the two of you walk away, and I
remember there was there was a take, as you would
where we looked at each other and then we looked
at you two, and I understand the direction they wanted
to discern that it's a much farther road for Haley

(27:33):
and Nathan than it is for Brooke and Lucas. And
so then then there was the request to don't look
at him. You know, you guys standing side by side
communicates it enough and and maybe you're hopeful, and that's
what made it. In the episode, Brooke and Nathan never
make eye contact, and brook kind of smiles, thinking like,
oh wow, he's really he's really showing up. And I

(27:54):
get it, but man, I missed. I missed these two
people having their moment of like, wow, we're kind of
on an island. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what's so interesting
about what we do is it's art, like everyone has
an opinion and there's a million versions. It's like sliding doors.

(28:16):
Both scenes would have worked, but our director liked it
better that Brooke was happy and didn't look at Nathan.
And it's it's so cool to me that like every
version has its own life, because Brooks also the only
person not wallowing in anything right now. We needed you
to be the sunshine in that little yellow shirt because

(28:37):
you were like the only you have so much fun.
You know what I realized in this episode, Brooke singlehandedly
embodies every character on Sex in the City. Oh my god,
thank you, all of them. You're all of them. Think
about that for a second. She's totally got the Charlotte
mom energy right now, like taking care of everyone. The

(28:59):
skive is any dipping, you know, running around playing with
all the boys. Brook that is, um, what's Samantha? And
then what's Cynthia Nixon's character's name. Miranda's like into politics
and she's like super you know, and she's like, yeah,
getting into politics and education and you know, caring about
causes and all of that. And then Sarah Jessica Parker

(29:20):
always has the most amazing outfits and who's just like
super emotionally raw and vulnerable and always just wants to
be in the right place with the right The best
day of my life. You did it. This is the
happiest day in my life. You don't check Check. You
don't even need to watch Sex in the City anymore.
Just watch Brooke in Onetrey Hill. That's Oh my god.
That's such a good observation. Joya. Wait, so then do

(29:46):
you get to pick who you're Mr? Big is? Like
in all of O th h like history, who is
Brooks Big? I mean, you can go wide here, you
can do anything you want. You You literally made the
the Closet Door boy lists this episode, so you could
put any famous boy big on there. I didn't know.

(30:08):
I didn't even open it up to the all of
the Warner brother like c W shows going around like
Who's her Big is? That they're a brick crossover on
like a million other episodes on any other show. Brooks
should definitely have gone on Gossip Girl and slapped one

(30:28):
of those boys for being I kind of feel like, honestly,
I think if if we hadn't been robbed in season two,
I think Uncle Cooper probably would have been brooks big
career and the whole you know. But then they chickened out,
so which I get. I mean, I should not have

(30:49):
as a teenage character. But I thought he said that
that was going to be for the five year jump,
that they were going to put you guys together. Yeah
that we're right, Yeah, you're right. Still he should have
been it. He should have been Mr Big you and
Coop would have been That would have been than man. Yep,
that would have been really nice. All right, Okay, can

(31:17):
we talk about Lucas and Nathan on the River Court
because Joy, you made really good points about James's energy
being very like clear and kind of shut down. And
while we were watching the scene, there's like a trend
in boy acting right now where everybody wants to talk
like Batman and makes me insane. Everyone wants to be

(31:40):
like cool and boy Chad just like left it all
out on the field. He's like up one minute and
down the next, and he's trying so hard to break
through the wall of Nathan and like, if I can't
get your sympathy, if I can't get your empathy, if
I can't connect with you that way, that I'm going
to tell you to coff, you know, like I'm gonna

(32:02):
try tolicit any kind of emotion I can from you.
I'm going to threaten you. I just love that our
boys acted like real teenage boys, like they were trying
to be hip. Yeah. I love that too. I think
if that was it was still that era and the
other shows that were on the air that we're in

(32:24):
our demographic were genre based shows, and I even consider
Gossip Girl to be a genre based show because it
was such heightened fantasy. Yeah, it was very fantasy, like
Dynasty or something. Um, so yeah, it was. I think
we were kind of the last of the breed of
the Everwood and Dawson's Creeks and Gilmore girls, where it

(32:45):
was just very natural, be emotional, be raw, you're they
weren't really worried about their heartthrob status. Um, it was
just more about doing good work. And also that was
a huge benefit of being in Wilmington's as opposed to
being in Los Angeles filming this show, because in l
A there's a totally different culture and pressure around young actors,

(33:07):
and to be in Wilmington's we a lot of us
were theater actors. We had a lot of guest stars
that came down from New York as theater actors, and
so the work really was the most important thing for
people on the show. Yeah, you'd be called out if
you were going to do the work. I mean I
remember Paul being like, if you're not going to commit,
then don't even say the words, because if you only

(33:28):
go halfway, you're gonna look stupid, you know. Paul told
me a story once about I won't say who. He
told me a story once about someone who came on
the show and had been uh working as a supporting
actor recurring actor in in one of the seasons, and
um had been around for a while but finally got

(33:49):
a real storyline written for them and there was a
lot to do and it was highly emotional, and that
person came to work and know their lines and wasn't
really was kind of distracted on their phone, and he
I remember him just being like, I just want to
tell you how many people would kill for the position

(34:11):
that you're in right now, and the fact that you
have disrespected everyone by showing up here like you have
a huge opportunity, this could make you a series regular,
but instead you've shown up and showed us all that
you don't respect any of our work, and you don't
respect yourself and you don't believe in yourself enough to
show up knowing your lines. And made the person cry,

(34:33):
but kind of rightly so, just because he called it
out and was like, listen, I'm gonna tell you the truth.
You've picked up you know. Yeah, it's Larry Energy mad dad. Yeah,
he was directing, by the way, so that's why he
had he was in the position to say that it's
not like a random charge. I cherish honest feedback to

(34:55):
constructive criticism is one of the greatest things a human
in can give you, and it shows that they respect you.
This new whatever thing where like you're supposed to sugarcoat
everything and you know, don't really tell someone when they
screw up, like, you know, just tell them they're doing

(35:15):
a great job. But you know, maybe what whatever, Maybe
it's not a It drives me crazy. It's like, no,
be honest, care about me enough to to give me feedback,
value that I am enough of an adult and um
that I have enough of an intellect and enough capability

(35:35):
to be empathetic to learn that I have not met
an expectation or let you down, and then I can change.
It's the crux even of a healthy romantic relationship. You
have to be able to say to your partner, this
thing in our interaction caused a rip, and now together
we have to repair it. Because if you don't acknowledge

(35:57):
that there's a rip, you can't repair it ever. And
I don't understand why you know my fear now would
be that. If Paul had said that to someone, you know,
they would have gone and complained about him. And it's like,
he just gave you the best career advice of your life. Yes,
you should thank him. I should write him a thank
you note. Yes we should go to thank him because

(36:19):
better you'll go be better forever after having heard that,
you know, it's beyond Uh. It drives me crazy when
they don't give me honest feedback. It's actually vital to
an actor as an artist. I cannot trust you as
a as a director or another actor or whatever. Mostly
with directors, this is my complaint in episodic when they're

(36:42):
just sugarcoating things and moving home. I won't trust you.
And if you don't, if you're not willing to tell
me something that's hard or something I don't you think
I don't want to hear, then I can't trust you.
And how can I put my heart out, take it out,
my beating heart, out of my chest and hold it
out in front of you and this entire crew and

(37:02):
the other person in the scene. How can I do
that if I don't trust you? Yeah? Well, because what
it says to me is that you don't respect me.
Enough to tell me what you really think and respect
for growth. Yeah, and it's interesting when you say that, Joy.
It makes me think about the way Nathan talks to

(37:23):
Haley in this episode, because he does have the wall
up with Lucas. He doesn't give him anything at the
River Court, but you realize that what Lucas said got
in because he shows up at the party and he's
just honest with her and he says, I don't know,
I don't know if I'm going to be ready. I
don't know if I'm ever going to be ready. I'm

(37:43):
going to go do my basketball thing. He literally tells
her what his defense mechanisms are and and it's so,
oh my god, what a gift that he gives her
honest feedback and says, you did this thing you you know,
to use your metaphor. It's like, you wasted my time.

(38:05):
You've shown me what you think and I don't know
if I'm gonna get over it. And it's what a gift.
And to hear it coming out of the mouth of
a teenage boy I know, and have that entrance with
the guitar, it was so catacastic. If I keep saying
this about the storyline, because they just keep feeling like
it's um. Liz Taylor, you know when when Paul Newman
and Knat and Roof finally yells at her in the

(38:26):
first like within the first like five minutes of the movie,
and she's like, that's progress, Okay, an emotion. You're giving
me some kind of emotional reaction. I'll take it um
for you. For those of you who don't know the story,
Paul Newman, I mean it's multilayered and to them, the
watch it, make them watch watch the damn movie. But anyway,

(38:48):
have homework this week exactly. But it's so but so
when he shows up and puts Tim's guitar over there,
and it's just very like, okay, anger, I'll take it great.
Do you know who else we're getting from the strong,
honest feedback in this episode Karen in Karen's cafe in

(39:09):
that scene, just that slow, steady shot on her when
she's like, I'm sad whoever tried to kill you failed
have been nice like and she says it with a smile,
and it's not overly done. It's just a glimmer. And

(39:31):
I love that she master fall. She can feel Dan
baiting her trying to find out if it's Keith, if
it's Andy, if it's her, like who killed me? You know,
she's playing with him. She wants him to think maybe
it's me. Maybe think but by the way, rather than
be a person who's like, oh no, is he wearing
a wire? Are the cops looking at me? Did he

(39:53):
give my name to authorities? And like acting out of fear,
She's like, no, I'm going to admit that I would
love for you to be dead. That would be what
a blessing. Yeah, and I love too that it was
a well written scene because he punches so low, saying

(40:14):
that Lucas was a mistake, you know, whatever, whatever it is.
She says, well, something must have been and he goes, yeah,
kind of like Lucas so gross and immature, like he's
still sixteen years old. Nathan his father. That's where we're at,
by light years, and Karen absorbs the blow and then

(40:37):
deals it back to him slowly. It's so it's she
takes this darkness and Moira manages two not only give
such a masterful scene class, but she makes it so sexy.
You're just like, oh my god, I'm intimidated, and I

(40:58):
love you. Karen take get charge. It's always good. Wait,
this whole crush on Keith thing seems like because as
we have new guest stars come in, like, yes, we're
paying Kevin Kilner, we're paying Shirley. Who else are we
paying this episode? I don't know. I don't know, Brett,
those are the two bigs. Yeah, they weren't pay because

(41:20):
they weren't paying us. Well, but it's like they have
to take other people off the docket, you know, and
so they well, we'll just give Andy and Keith and
stew over it. But I don't because Barbara wasn't in
this episode. There. But I don't understand though, you guys,
is she's lamenting Andy being gone and seems like she

(41:43):
misses Andy, and but then it's Keith, but then it's Andy.
But then who does she miss? I can't. I feel
like I don't know if it's a device to get
us somewhere because I don't remember what's coming. I don't
storyline or any of them, I guess, or if it
was like lazy writing where they were like it's Kate,
it's Andy, it's Kate, like you has it was them

(42:04):
pitting them against each other because they were like, hey, Listen, man,
if you don't agree to this like price that we
want to pay you, we're just gonna go with this
cheaper dude. That's what I was just gonna say. I
think they're trying to figure out if they could get
Craig back for another season or not. They were just
in contract negotiations, so they were like, let's just keep
them both in the mix until we decide who's It's

(42:25):
so dumb. That's when you're like, you gotta have creative
people in power positions at studios, because if it's just
about the bean counting, it really throws in your creativity. Yeah,
for sure. Ain't that the truth? Ums about the executive suite? Wait,

(42:48):
what's going to happen with Peyton and Ellie here? I'm
trying to I mean, I like that Peyton says, am
I ever going to be able to trust anyone in
my life? Or something to that effect? Um, and I
feel that, And I it's hilarious that she's the worst
DJ ever in this episode and that she just by
the way, that was good music she was playing like
I did. Yeah, but you are painting swear You're like,

(43:11):
excuse me, that was not just because you guys, can't
shake your ass too. It doesn't mean it's not worthy
of a beach play. Um, you light up my life
and we just lit a bonfire. Read between the lines
so rough. No, I really I said a number of

(43:34):
times in this episode how much I liked the music
because it was super recognizable stuff. There was like Fallout
Boy in there, and there was some like bops from
the early two thousand's that we all definitely listened to
on a regular rotation. Um music was becoming a bigger
deal on our show, and I really feel like you
and Tyler laid the groundwork for that, because once you

(43:54):
guys went out on tour, are just for like, oh there, No,
this is like real. If we go on once, it's
not like we're playing in the background like on other shows.
We become a part of the storyline that's totally different,
totally fun. It's probably why we got people like like
Pete Wentz to come and a part of the real

(44:14):
storyline on the show. Yeah. You know, this episode was
hard for me because I had a funeral to go
to in Iowa for a relative, and I remember going
to the executive suite and being like, guys, I'll do anything.
I'll do anything, but I have to be gone, you know,

(44:35):
these like three days and they were like you can't go,
you can't go, you can't go. And I'm literally like
crying and begging and I'm just like please, you have
to let me go. So finally it got and I
feel like I may have took like a pen to
the script and been like, you don't need me in
this scene. There was a scene we're Peyton and Nathan

(44:59):
had like a whole conversation like sitting on a cooler.
I feel like I either remember reading anymore, do you
remember this? It's not in the cut, so I can't
remember if we cut it from the script or if
we like filmed it real half assid And they were like,
you know what, but if you notice, all of peyton

(45:20):
scenes at the beach party are close up shots of
her at that table. And I did all of my
scenes in one day so I could go to this
funeral in Iowa. Um, but it works because Peyton is
really cut off. Yeah, so it was a device. It
was a device that worked out great if you ask. Yeah,

(45:42):
I'm also glad that you. I mean, it sucks that
there's so little humanity in the behind the scenes of
our jobs. But I'm glad that you advocated for yourself
and it just played into the storyline. It's like, I
can't trust anybody for that. It's against me. Yeah, you know,
Peyton grumpy and Joy. You made the comment you're like

(46:05):
you and Cheryl have enough of the same like mannerisms.
That's your eyes are similar kind of too, there's enough
enough similarity. It's weird to watch it as a separate
person because at the time I remember thinking like, oh,
we're so different, We're so different, And now watching as
a grown up, I'm like, I get it. I mean,
now you see it. She watched you. I think she

(46:28):
watched some of your performances, being some of the stuff
that you do, and you could see it the parallel
between the Peyton and Larry fight and then when Larry
gets her on the river walk and they have a fight,
she stands like you, She looks up at him, she
does these things that look like you when you're obsessed,

(46:49):
and you were, you know that sort of it was
so such a young teenage girl thing to do when
you're crying to you, like open your mouth a little,
like I don't know how to explain it, but you
do it is it's just sort of like petulant, like childish.
It's great. And she didn't she didn't in that in
the last moment after Larry walked away and I was like,
this actress was watching she was when do we have

(47:12):
her on? Have we reached out Charlotte? Guys? Could we
got to get her on soon? I hadn't seen her
since we like filmed the show, and she was at
that last convention that we were at right before the
pandemic hit and I were the one in Wilming Baby.
I wept. I wept and wept and wept when I
saw her because I just I love her. She's the

(47:35):
only person that could have played Ellie, the only person.
Do you remember how psyched we were when we heard
that Laura Palmer was going to be on our show? Nuts?
It was nuts because also Moira had been in the
Twin Peaks movie and it just felt like it felt
like we were like kind of getting their street cred

(47:56):
by Carrie. Yes they're cool girl, sign us up? Yes, no,
I you know this is a fun episode for me.
I love this episode. I'm writing it down as one
of my favorite of all time. Because I like the
duality of the stuff, like Tim being naked with the

(48:17):
guitar at the bonfire and Brooke right in the names
on the doors. But then all the emotional heavy lifting too,
Like when our show hit this kind of stride where
the balance between fun and serious were even These were
our best episodes Magic, it felt like the season one
Magic all those moments. Yeah, that's what it felt like.

(48:41):
It really did. And it's interesting to see the precursors
to some things, like we see that gift of the
door fight between Peyton. We've seen it for fifteen years.
I forgot he I forgot how hilarious is the introduction

(49:02):
of the doors was like the scene between us is
so funny. You wake up, I'm in your room drawing on.
I go get you your toothbrush and hand it to
you when we're having a conversation and you're brushing your teeth. Oh,
such good direction and the energy of these best friends.
And and it starts in this like light, happy, funny

(49:23):
place where Brooke is saying Larry's her hot dad fantasy,
and like they're deciding who gets that. I like, I know,
I have the reaction where I'm like, oh, honey, don't
you're like gross. It's just like it's so lovely to
see the fun and the innocence and the humor and
you and I really getting to banter and then knowing

(49:46):
where it goes. I'm like, this was this was well done.
Off the Brook and Peyton, I mean, sorry, the Brook
and Haley starting to build this bubbly friendship too, which
is so fun because I've I think Haley was really
disconnected from the girls, even though they tried a lot
in season one, there was I think she still kind
of always was like the odd man out because you
two had a history together. So it's really fun to

(50:07):
see everything coming together now and us throwing singers at
each other too, you know, like you throw it at
me and I throw it at you. I'm like, well,
where do you want to watch us? And you're just
you know, and it feels would badge my eyes out
or something. It's my favorite thing. But it's it's got

(50:28):
like sibling energy. Yeah, for sure. Everything they're giving us
this season, oh it does, it just feels very alive
and fun. Well, we loved this episode. We have a
listener question and we have to spin a wheel. You girls, ready,

(50:51):
all right, Jocelyn is asking where do you see yourselves
professionally and personally in the next ten years? Directing? Writing?
Isn't that funny? That's just kind of what we were
talking about in the beginning of the episode two. What
does she a wizard? How wizard talk about this? I'm
gonna get my damn ass on Broadway or the West

(51:12):
End for Christ's sake, at some point in the next
ten years. He enjoying audience. Guess who has an apartment
in the city, totally ready for about to happen. Yes,
taking over? Um, yeah, writing, directing, producing, singing, touring, mom

(51:32):
ng maybe wife ing. I don't know. Let's see what happens,
um are we we're going to solicit for all those things. Guys,
I should have brought my I've got crystals over there.
I should have lit candles and like, brought the crystals
over before we started. Look at this perfect, perfect and
burning a candle for us. Lady manifesting right now, um

(51:56):
calling all the witches of the North, all the witches
launch into the craft. Guys. Brooke talked about witchcraft before
she lit that fire, and I liked it. I was
like Hillary, they gave us a little Kernel. Yeah, they
knew it was coming, Like these pitches are gonna go
dark later. Um, I I honestly want to lean more

(52:21):
into just like writing. I just had a really good
meeting with my publisher harper One about my second book,
and it just made me want to write all the books.
Like yeah, I think for so long in my youth,
I felt like I had to be an extrovert and
I had to be like I had to go places.
And you guys know that my comfort zone is literally

(52:43):
my cave, and writing lets me do that. So I'll
just come out on our on our wine tours for
drama queens. Otherwise I'm going to be in a cave
with the crystals, writing book writing, writing books. We're gonna
get into some fix kids. Yes, I love that's coming. I. Um,

(53:05):
it's funny you say that I have a dream of
doing some y a fiction. Oh, yes, because we didn't.
You know, we've talked about it when we were doing
the show. We didn't have a lot. It was for
us as young women. Well, but we want more of that.
Geek Love and Perks of Being a Wallflower were the
big books, but they weren't necessarily geared towards chicks. It

(53:28):
was kind of just like this is this is outsider stuff. Yeah,
and I think about, you know, wanting to write something
for young us. I think about um to your point, joy,
like I take all your adjectives. Aside from singing and touring,
I will not be dropping an album. Um, but don't like,

(53:53):
oh my god, watch the universe is going to be like, well,
look out, ladies and the three of us. You know
what I'm doing something, I'm yeah, oh my god, twist
my arm. But yeah, I think I think it's more
of all those things, you know. I'm I'm reading great scripts,
and I'm thinking about what I want to act in,
what I want to direct, and thinking about what i

(54:14):
want to write. I'm I'm starting to feel like I'm
finally getting out of my own way. Yeah. I'm a
really good writer, and I love reading, and I love
um topical writing like things that you know, op eds
and journalism, um skewing pieces, and to lean into that

(54:36):
as a strength rather than say like, no other people
do that. No. Like I'm I'm finally hitting a point
in my life where I'm stopping coming up with excuses
for why I'm not good at the thing that everyone
I trust tells me I'm good at a Well, did
you watch the Taylor Swift n y U graduation speech
where No, I thought you were gonna say the Taylor

(54:57):
Swift documentary and I was gonna be like, yes, I've
se she was just a commencement speaker and she talks about, UM,
I just saw a clip on the interweb and she's like,
you know, somewhere along the lines, people made it uncool
to try, and I'm here to tell you it's cool
to try, like try everything, try all the things. And

(55:18):
so I hope that our younger fan base in particular
heard that, um, because it is cool to try. It's hard.
It's hard to get out of your own way and
get out of the fears of feeling like you don't
want to be the person in the room who doesn't
know what's going on. But the truth is, everyone loves
someone who is trying. Everyone loves someone who's asking questions
and going for it. And you're not going to run

(55:40):
into a lot of people who want to throw up
a stop sign or close a door in your face
if you're sincerely just go. You're putting it all out there,
like I'm just trying. I'm just going for it and um,
you should be UM, and that's I'm I can't believe
I'm only just now reaching that point in my life
where I'm really ready to to start um, going for

(56:03):
it and stop again, like you said, so coming up
with excuses why I can't. I got that at this
it's too much, I'm overwhelmed, blah blah blah. No, No,
I mean not to get like two in our feelings here,
but honestly, you guys, I I think it's incredibly pressing
in this moment. I wish I wish it was a
little later and we were all having one, but I

(56:24):
would say, like we should. It's like, it feels like
a moment for like an emotional or spiritual toast. Because
we survived the early aughts on a teen drama like
that era was so rough for young girls. And the
thing that I have always loved about the two of you,
which I'm finally willing to recognize it myself, is emotional resiliency.

(56:47):
And we have stuck it out, and we have made mistakes,
and we have continued moving, and we've been nice enough
to not pretend that that wasn't our reality. We've shared
our reality with everybody who's listening to this podcast today,
with our fans, like we haven't tried to do the
thing of like, well, you know, we're in the public
eye and we're just gonna act like we get all together,

(57:10):
like shut up, and and here we are on this journeys.
The big word, the point really is emotional resiliency and messy.
I love you years, Joscelyn. I hope you're everywhere you
want to be in ten years, um and more and more. Yeah,

(57:31):
well let's find out who is most likely to be
something else in ten years? What's our wheel? Saying? Joy?
That was such a good segue. Oh my god, you're
so Sometimes sometimes that's why she's a good director. She
likes a transition. Oh no, is this Brooke I don't know?
Most likely to order? No, it's Bevin, my character, not

(57:53):
the person pumpkin spice latte. Who's most likely to order
a pumpkin spice list. It's either Bevin the character or Tim? Yes,
I would This isn't that. I think Tim is on
the money. Tim being a pumpkin spice latte guy feels
really right to me. I think Antoine. I think Antoine

(58:14):
actually might be them. Yeah, it just seems like rappaccino guy,
like yeah, but now I get it, the sweet bit,
the sweet sweet Our boys. I love our boys are boys?
Are they just they're the best boys. We got so

(58:35):
here in the next episode because I miss seeing their faces.
We need them like they I think the writers forgot
how badly we needed them around us in this show
and how badly the audience needed that sense of grounded
nous of home. They were established in the beginning of
this series as a sense of home, and I miss
them when they're not around. Well, let's let's um tag

(58:56):
Garbage from Peyton's side of the closet doors are our
very own junk. Cullen Moss is in the staircase and
is so good. Oh my god, it's just like blowing up.
He should have like blown up when we were younger.
But he's got just the perfect energy right now to
be in all of these fabulous things like outer banks

(59:17):
and the staircase. So go watch my sweet garbage. I
love sweet Garbage. We love you guys. Thank you for
your thoughtful questions and for showing up for us, and
your continued support and encouragement. And we can't wait to
have another week with you. Come on back and check
us out next Sunday at midnight or you know, Monday
morning when you wake up. What by what it works

(59:38):
for you. We will see you next week for Season three,
Episode three, First Day on a brand New Planet. Hey,
thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.
You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens
O t H or email us at Drama Queens at
I heart radio dot com. See you next time. Were

(59:59):
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