October 11, 2021 • 53 mins
The ladies are sharing their true feelings about this episode. There’s bad. There’s ugly. Is there any good!? Yes. Sheryl Crow!
"Are you Strong Enough" to love Tree Hill despite this week’s flaws?
"All I Wanna Do" is find out what went on with Deb, because she "Can't Cry Anymore". We know Peyton and Lucas are end game but this week they have major “My Favorite Mistake" energy.
The Drama Queens won't hold back because they know "Everyday is a Winding Road" and sometimes you have to get lost to get found.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
First of all, you don't know me. Were all about
that high school drama, Girl Drama girl, all about them
high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in
our comic girl cheering drama Queens up girl Fashion. But
you'll tough, girl, You could sit with us. Girl Drama
Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama Drawn MC Queen's Drama Queens. Guys,
(00:25):
welcome to another episode of Drama Queens. Um. We just
watched the worst episode so far. Let's just cut cut
to the chase. Need wine. Yeah, listen, we're all opening
bottles of wine because it's two. We are drinking to bear.
This was episode sixteen. It was called first Cut is
(00:45):
the Deepest, and it's a deep, nasty cut. I'm embarrassed
that this is the episode. We had Cheryl Crow come
on like she had read this script. We were so
excited when we saw the title for this episode because
we're like, yeah, it's the sheet throw up episode. It
aired March second of two thousand four. The synopsis is
that Nathan must choose which parent to live with after
(01:08):
Dan and Deb's divorce, and Lucas meets a newcomer who
has deeper ties to Tree Hill than expected. Um, this
is going to be a long pore friends, hold on, Yeah,
concidentally we are drinking our fit vine wine. Thanks guys.
So this Yeah, this was an embarrassing episode. Um. And
(01:29):
we got a lot of information that we've been looking for,
but boy did we have to We got one We
got one piece of information we've been looking for, and
we got a lot of repeat exposition. This was like
an entire episode that could have been condensed into two scenes.
I feel like there was nothing new. We didn't learn
anything new. It was dripping with misogyny while we were
(01:52):
watching the episode, and um, we we introduced this new
character played by Emmanuel who we all love, but it
was just seemed kind of so random. And then of
course we learned at the end, um that she's Jenny's mom.
But that piece of information plus the dead piece we're
really the only things that we got out of this
(02:13):
episode is so strange to me. Oh and the Dan
at the Dan and Keith contract thing. Yeah, it was
so just like blip. We'll we'll get into all of it. Um.
I I have trouble with this episode so much, and
we're going to get into it. I think it's important
to remember it was two thousand four at this point,
(02:36):
and the rules for what boys did on TV was very,
very different back then. So so for all the people
out there that are like, now you're making fun of Lucas,
first of all, he's terrible in this episode. But second
of all, we are looking at this through a lens
of and we are grown up ladies and we are
allowed to just wag our finger at this. It is gross,
(03:01):
So let's let's get into it. This felt to me
like the height and this was, as you said, Hillary,
this is the height of trying to compete with Gossip
Girl and the OC when they were on the air. Yeah,
this salacious um there was. It seemed like maybe not
a lot of effort put into the dialogue um, which
(03:24):
is frustrating. You can tell in the first scene when
we're all in the quad and I think none of
us are really I'm not committing to my dialogue. I'm like,
I'm going to say these words because if I don't
say them, then we've got to do it again. But yeah,
they're so clunky and weird, and it's like, yeah, it's
just some strange scripting. I mean, listen, everybody for you
guys who are listening along, and you're like, oh, I
(03:46):
don't want this to be a downer. I don't want
to just listen to you guys complain. I get it.
I don't want to complain either. So we're going to
find our nuggets in here. We're gonna find our golden
nuggets and the things that we love are we gonna
go mining. Let's go, let's go mining. But you know
it isn't It is important to acknowledge when something was
not up to snuff, like not up to standard, and
(04:08):
and it makes us appreciate the moments that were great
on our show so much more when we can compare
it to UM moments, Like it's really true and I
think there's really something to that. Like, you know, we
we watched the episode and then we always take a
snack break. In tonight's case, it was let's all grab
(04:29):
a glass of wine, break an hurry. I was enjoy
before you came back. I was telling Hill that I
the episode was so terrible that I just stressed ate
my whole we watched it was like, um, but it's
actually really funny because I ran in the other room
(04:50):
and Grant was like, how was it. I was like,
it's the worst episode we've done so far. If there
are any fans out there, they think that episode sixteen
is their favor head episode, like they tell us, because
I don't know why, I've never heard anyone say that
they loved this episode. Um, I would like to talk
about deb the best performance of the episode. She was great. Yeah.
(05:15):
I was really bothered that this was her big secret,
that she that she fell in love with another man
while she was married to someone who is abusive, narcissistic, um,
just torturing her mentally, emotionally, constantly using her son against her.
You know, we've seen Dan's behavior and the fact that
(05:36):
as a human being, she would get um, she would
have have a need to be loved and adored and
all the things that she deserves as a grown woman,
and that she would fall into that with someone else naturally.
I mean, I'm not excited that anyone's marriage is falling
apart ever, or an affair or anything, but the fact
that that that was the idea of her big scary,
(05:59):
dark secret. It when he's just so awful to her,
I don't know, helped me talked me through this, and
then they wrote it in a way where it was
the thing she could never reveal because she would be
the bad one, not the abusive husband who's financially controlling,
who by the way, has almost, if not definitely, cheated
(06:21):
on her before. Like the idea that it would make
her unlovable, she'd be shunned. Even even the way that
the writers wrote Nathan's dialogue after the reveal, Nathan's response say,
you are the reason Dad is like this with me.
You caused him to torture when we saw Dan's whole family,
(06:42):
we saw we saw the episode with Royal, we know
where he comes from, we get it. And the fact that,
oh heaven forbid a woman cheated she excommunicator. Listen, y'all
heard me in the last episode. I don't care. I
don't I'm cheering on a deb Scott affair because one
(07:03):
it's her taking her future into her own hands. Um.
What really bothered me is how Barbara played this really well,
because she walked into the room with Nathan and was
terrorized by the idea of having to admit this. And
so what that informs us is when Dan found out
that she was leaving him for someone else, he threatened
(07:25):
her so severely that she panicked and came back. You know,
like this was done in two thousand three, in a
time when you could divorce your husband and still have
custody of your child, whether that's shared custody or soul
custody whatever, um. But whatever he said to her when
(07:47):
she announced I love someone else was enough for her
to be so scared she came back. And she said it,
she said, when I realized I could lose you, I
can't back. Why would she lose him? Like that doesn't
make any sense, but you know, in whatever way, Dan
would do what Dan does and threaten her and say
(08:09):
she was an unfit mother and tell lies about her
like we've seen him do it already. That's why living
with him, she wasn't willing to lose Nathan. And and
then for Nathan to say, for them to have written,
let's clarify, this is the writing, for them to have
written that Nathan's reaction is all of this is your fault. Oh,
(08:29):
I didn't like it. It really to me. I was
like the reek of misogyny. Gross's gross. Hey, if this
is a triggering storyline for anybody that's listening, if you're
in a bad spot there are resources, and the mythology
that like you'll lose your kids and that your life
is over and you're a scorned woman, Like all of
(08:49):
that's bullsh You know, there are great resources out there
and all you gotta do is google them, um, find
your safe space. But it is always better to choose
safety and happiness and joy. And I hate that Deb
didn't do that. And now maybe some of her behavior
in the later seasons is making sense because we're seeing
(09:10):
the trauma unfold. And I didn't recognize it as a
younger viewer me either. I didn't know that that is
what happens in marriages because I was a kid, you know. Yeah. Meanwhile, Lucas,
by the way, it gets to and look, I'm sorry,
I know you guys don't want us bagging on Lucas,
but look, it's good for a character to have an arc,
and right now his flaws are glaring, and that's okay.
(09:31):
But what bothers me about this whole scenario is, on
one hand, we're seeing Deb who is feels deeply sorry
about this, and she's you know, trying to figure out
for trying to find her way in life, and she's
in an abusive relationship. Let's make no qualms about that.
And then we've got Lucas on the other hand, who
has been playing the field with both girls and uh
gets to kind of get off Scott free. Yeah, they're
(09:53):
mad at him, but like his mom is all like, oh,
it's okay, don't worry. Everything's gonna be fine, you know.
And then oh and he gets to take home a
you girl from a bar and like mess around with
her and have fun at the carousel. It's so double standard.
This episode is the boy fantasy. It is absolutely the
boy fantasy. Because Dan his control over everyone is on
(10:15):
full display in this episode. He's got control over deb
He's got control over Nathan giving him the car he's
a where's my thank you? He's got control over Lucas
because I saved your life. Where's my thank you? And
he's got control over Keith now yes, And so that's
his fantasy. And then Lucas from the first scene that
we see him, like running the brook and he's like,
(10:37):
we didn't mean to hurt you. Like, first of all,
we we bro Peyton was saying no, no, no, no, no,
no no no no. Pick her at her most vulnerable
when she thinks her dad is dead, and like get
her to admit, okay, yes, I like you, what do
you want from me? And then convinced her that your
(10:58):
soulmates like it's out to be us, and then you
drag her into the best friend fight. I just I
I own Peyton's mistakes, but like, it's a hard one
for me to swallow when he's like, hey man, it
was being Peyton this whole time. We were just you know,
plotting against you. Sorry, well, and I think what's hard
to watch, you know, because like you said, when we
(11:22):
were kids trying to figure out how to do this,
we were going to work and doing the things written
for our characters. So I was like, you're both betrayers
and this, that and the other. But watching it now,
I feel for these young girls in in a in
like your older aunt who you asked the questions to
that you never would ask your mom. I have that
(11:42):
kind of energy for all of these girls, and my god,
it makes me crazy that we didn't see at the
time that what was happening. And again, guys, we have
to separate anybody's like you know, personal adoration of the
show from what was written for us to do and
the writers wrote a very long and very toxic and
(12:07):
very gentle pressuring Lucas pressured Peyton in a way that's
not okay. A guy who loves you isn't supposed to
do that to you. And and the betrayal that comes
out of that for him to then throw on her
evenly it does. It does from girl Camp. It feels upset.
(12:28):
What what's the what do you mean when you say
the pressure that he's putting on her? Like what Hillary
is talking about, how that character was written for episodes
and episodes and episodes were meant to be together, were
meant to you do you want to be with me? Right?
You do? He goes at her physically when she is
in a state of associative trauma. Her dad might be dead,
(12:51):
she has to go to the morgue and see a
dead body. And it's just so it's a kind of pressure.
It is again, and I know this stuff can be
very triggering, but it's we've all been taught to fear
the like scary guy in the alley, the like horrible
thing that can happen, you know, a sexual assault like
(13:11):
laun or SPU style. And what we've come to find
is that so many more women who experienced that experience
it from an intimate partner or as a date rape scenario,
and and the energy of this well, I'm not saying
that that's what was written for Lucas to do to Peyton.
What I am saying is it's on the spectrum of
intimate partner abuse, and it's it's really hard to watch.
(13:34):
It's taking advantage of someone who needs a friend really bad.
You know, I don't doubt like Lucas and Peyton or endgame,
they obviously saw something in each other. They found safety
in each other. It is a very messy, bumpy road
to get there, and they're teenagers. Their teenagers, you're supposed
(13:54):
to screw up. But what he is doing is not okay,
and he admits it in this episode at the Bay.
You know, we caught so much for calling out Lucas
in these episodes for doing this exact thing. And then
literally he's in the bar with Nikki and she says,
you got a girlfriend, and he says, well, I had to,
(14:17):
you know, like hed it. So for all of you
who gave me a nearful, I see you and I
raise you. A Night of the Blue post where he
admits it in this episode, So I feel vindicated personally absolutely,
And listen, I like what you said. You know, these
two characters, the really magical stuff we see in the
(14:38):
beginning is why Lucas and Peyton are endgame. It's why
they wind up in a good place. But I think
what's hard for us as women who as as we've
also talked a lot about it. We have more language,
more understanding, more data, We understand the nuance of abusive
relationships and all of these things, these themes we're talking
(14:58):
about in the show, and to look back on it,
it's not just like cringeing it. It's hard to watch
because we see things that are toxic being modeled as romantic. Yeah,
and it's also like, guys, you know, we also saw
behind the scenes from people who were in the position
(15:22):
of writing this stuff, a lot of toxic um behavior, behavior, communication, um,
just outlook on the world, outlook on women. We saw
all that happening in real time, in real life, and
knowing that those people were the ones, some of those
people were the ones in charge of writing the material
that we were performing, it's it is a little harder
(15:45):
for us to just look at it objectively and say, oh,
Lucas was blah blah blah or just this or just that,
because we know what was behind the personalities writing some
of this stuff and so um, so if it seems
like we're exaggerating or you know, blowing it out of proportion,
we have a we have a behind the you know,
(16:07):
scrim perspective. Yeah. I was gonna say, pay no attention
to the man, but please do like please do see
you know, this is a little bit more than just
what was on screen. And so I think that's a
lot of what we're reacting to. And and it's also
a good thing for people to to think about in
real life too, is there is there um going about
(16:28):
their relationships and scenarios where I don't know if it's
partnerships or friendships or whatever. It just to recognize that
there's always it's it's always a little bit more than
just what you see on the surface. Yeah, that's a
good point. Joy, I'm glad that you Yes, it's you
know the one. It was so dark for the first
(16:49):
few scenes of this episode because we were all just grimacing,
and then it was the scene in the cafe with
Joy where she she says the line it was just
like all times minus one spleen and I was so good, Like,
Haley did not have anything to do this episode. Everybody
(17:10):
was like dealing with like chaos and having sex on carousels,
and Haley is just like you guys here show crows
in Town, show Chrome, you know, show crows in Town.
I wonder who's going to guest star in this episode? Interesting? Also,
let's just be real. First of all, the hilarity of
trying to win tickets on eBay and you're like the
(17:34):
l yeah, I've got a high speed internet connection, sweet baby, Nathan,
oh my god, and and the like purity of the
less technical times matched to you at the end when
she's like how much do I owe you for the coffee?
When Nathan's like, you're being so awkward and you go
(17:55):
a song a cup of song, like he's so old?
Can you imagine someone actually saying that to Cheryl Carl
I love that about it. I love that about her.
She totally would do that. Has anyone pulled that on
(18:16):
you in real life? Has anyone tried to bother with you?
I don't know what I would do. Somebody was like,
if you sing for me right now, I'll give you
whatever blah blah blah. If I give you this Curry Joy,
this curry Diner, free, will you sing as the song
free Curry. I'd have to be really in the mood.
(18:37):
I'd have to be in the mood. But Cheryl Crow
was in the mood. She was so sweet when she
came in. Um, A lot of people were there. Everybody
kind of we all showed up. We were hiding in corners. Actually, guys,
I said that when we watched the episode for everybody
listening at home, we all were shocked because that Karen's
cafe was more packed than it's ever been for anything.
(18:58):
And then we realized in the scene that it was
supposed to be empty. But we all remember that night
as like a hundred people being there because we were
we were just hiding off camera. Yeah, where were we?
I feel like we were all tucked away in the
corners of actually over why where the table was where
um Moira and I and Chad all had that one
scene earlier. I think everybody was kind of on that
(19:19):
and we were like people were sitting on the bar
and behind the bar because the dollies, the big, the
big pieces of equipment, y'all that the cameras rest on.
They're kind of like big heavy wagons. The dollies were
in front of the actual countertop, and so we were all,
I mean people, We might as well have been hanging
from the rafters trying to watch her sing, but we
(19:39):
were so storks. Total money did they have to pay
show grow to come into One Tree Hill. I'll tell
you one thing that was in her deal that I
know how to have been in her deal was that
she scored the whole episode. Like they used her I
don't know if she scored it, but like they used
only her music for the whole episode. Was only her songs. Yeah,
that makes so smart. Yeah, I would have done that.
(20:01):
And her guitarist, Jeff is somebody. Actually I ended up
writing with UM a couple of years later, A year
or so later when I got my contract with Epic Records.
I remember that. Yeah, they hooked me up with that guy, Jeff,
and he was such a sweetheart. We wrote some fun
stuff together UM, and I was just super stoked to
be working with anybody that had worked with Cheryl besides
Billy Joel. She was like, my my Mecca. Did you
(20:23):
use her music as auditions songs? Because I did oh
and karaoke songs. Yeah, there was like a girl group
that was getting like formulated in the nineties in d
C at the Kennedy Center. That's where they were doing
the auditions. And I had to go audition, right, and
my first audition song was like an ace of bass
(20:43):
song and they were like, you did a kid, you
did it. Uh, you're coming back for a callback, you know,
And it was it was so gross and like predatory.
And but then my callback song was all I want
to do is have some fun and he and it's
it's so cool that she came on our show because
she imprinted on us was like our middle school years, right,
(21:08):
you know. She's a really big deal. And I wish that, um,
we'd all gotten to hang out with her, because she
would have been one of those older chicks that would
have imparted some wisdom. I can feel it. I think
so too. I wish we could have asked her some questions.
I wish so too. I mean, I wish we had
been able to have more time with her and just chat.
But she was really sweet, and I think we were
(21:29):
all really nervous. I was sweet, too nervous to talk
to her about music or anything, but I should have
she had an album. I think it wasn't the Globe
Sessions because that was the super popular one that really
broke out, but she had one that was kind of darker.
I think maybe it was just called or it was
just called Cheryl Crow. And the song is so heartbreaking
first cut as the deepest, like, yeah that I've cried
(21:52):
to that song. I want to say there was a
breakup during our One Tree Hill tenure that involved that
song breaking my heart over and over again. And yeah,
she was amazing. You know what else I loved in
this episode. I loved the I mean, I know it's
a rough time, you know, Peyton and Brooke by the
way winding up drinking together, cheersing that Lucas went home
(22:15):
with another girl is so again the writing is so insane.
But Hillary, we did a great job in that scene.
You know, here's something. If we got to hang out
a blue post all night, we had a great time.
We had a great time. It was fine. We were
like definitely playing ski ball when they were changing camera lenses,
for sure, But I did love the the kind of
(22:36):
sweet quiet moment with our other favorites. We were robbed
with Peyton and Jake and you making the mobile for
Jenny was really really cute. But again, so this show
like sped through stuff. You know, Joy made such a
good point when we were watching the episode, She's like, God,
(22:58):
you know you talked about success Ship. Yeah, one of
my favorite shows on HBO. So what's what I love
about Succession? And it's not everyone's cup of tea, no,
no show is, But um I what I really love
about Succession is that you get to know the characters
and even though they all sort of have these they're
all kind of bad, yeah, but you you fall in
(23:20):
love with them because of their humanity because it takes
so long to see things unfold that in between all
the bad choices, you see the good possibilities. I mean,
it's the reason that we people fall in love with
with unhealthy partners, right, because you see all the good
possibilities right before the horrible choice, bad day. Right. And
(23:42):
and but what's great about it is it draws you in.
It triggers that part of the human brain that loves
a cliffhanger because we want to solve the mystery, want
to see what's going to happen. And TV has really
leveled up and why Succession is an example of that
is because they really take a long time. It's a
slow burn to reveal all of these story points and
the and the plot points as they twist and turn
(24:03):
and and uh. The more I watch our show, the
more I'm getting whiplash with all of the how fast
everything is happening. And it's a shame because we've got
good actors, we've got interesting characters, we've got a beautiful
setting and a great setup for story. But because we're
blowing through it so fast, we're missing out on the
(24:25):
anticipation and that, you know, all the all the excitement
that you get from just slowly wandering through a journey
and then boom, getting surprised by a twist and turn.
How good, how juicy would it have been if for
two or three whole episodes we saw Keith stressing about money,
going through other avenues of trying to get alone, admitting
(24:48):
it to Karen, her looking at her finances, figuring out
what would happen if she took out a second mortgage
on the cafe, him saying I'm not gonna let you
do it. The slow burn, the slow burn, the slow burn,
Dan finding out ahead of time and like lauding and waiting.
What if Dan let people think like he really was
going to do the right thing. What if we thought
two episodes Dan was going to do the right thing
(25:09):
and and then the oh he's your boss, that guy
showed up. It would hurt so much worse. It would
be so much deeper. And what about introducing uh Nikki? Yeah,
we had three episodes before with like these weird little
moments and she's in and out and we're like, oh,
we've got this new character and who is she and
why she is and the reveal. Yeah, it's just a lot.
(25:31):
I mean, do you guys think it was because we
were constantly on the bubble and always afraid of it,
Like they were always afraid that we were going to
get canceled. They were just trying to shove everything in.
So here's what's also insane is that, now that we've
spoken to so many other people who were on shows
in the same era as our show, everyone was always
told they were on the bubble, and it was it
was a ploy. It wasn't a real thing. Like, isn't
(25:54):
that sucks so bad? Guys? It's like finding out about Santa.
It's just like, what where time we could have been
having fun instead of strussed scared all the time. Well,
so the Jacob it all. It's hard for me because
I see how much fun I'm having with Greenberg. I
see how much fun Peyton and Jake are having together.
(26:15):
But Peyton literally just dive bombed her one friendship, like
her one true love Brook. You know that relationship has
imploded over Lucas and Peyton's already like watching movies with Jake.
Just it. As a former teenage girl, I was a
(26:36):
teenage girl, believe it or not. When you were in
love with someone, you don't automatically get your head turned
by someone else. When it falls apart, there is a
morning process, and I think having so many male writers
was a detriment because that process was never really explored.
You know, Brooke just goes straight to like scorched earth
(27:00):
um and it's like I'm going to destroy everything and
you're the loser, and you're a loser, and you're a loser.
You know, Peyton went from being with Nathan to being
sort of with Luke right away, and then now all
of a sudden, it's like this Jake thing is happening,
and it's like, is her only value in being with
a person like being with a dude? Um, that's hard,
(27:23):
that's I mean, I'm sure that's something that we deal
with in real life. But I would have appreciated if
Jake had gotten the respect he deserved and there would
have been a little bit of breath between the you know,
chapters of dudes. Yeah, that's a great point. I do
think it's interesting when people say, you know, why is
(27:46):
representation so important? It's stuff like this. You know, if
there had been more women in positions of power, I
think maybe that would have been different. I think maybe
someone would have said, you got to give her a minute,
Like she's going to go home and cry into her pillow,
right that's the scene, a scene like where is paying
at home weeping over this? By the way, where was
(28:07):
Brooks opportunity to like weep over this? Brook never cries
right like at home by herself. And it's weird, and
it's like, and if she's not going to cry, if
she's the kind of person that's going to refuse, I
won't allow this to get me so sad or whatever.
I want to know about that, and I want to
know why, why is she like that? You know. Also,
(28:27):
did you guys have nosy teachers at school? No? No,
I had a camp counselor once who I thought was sweet,
like she was invested a little bit more than others.
But I didn't have nosy teachers. My teachers knew every
boy that I kissed, every boy that I talked to, Like,
my teachers always knew what I was involved in. And
(28:47):
so when oh it was so great, and when it
would go sideways, like they were completely invested in it,
like and it was incredibly sweet, you know, and so
they would pull you aside lovingly and like trying to
give you some good advice and you know, steer you
in the right direction. There's nobody at Trio High that
(29:08):
is saying either to the girls like, Babe, this ain't
worth it, This ain't it, or conversely like saying to Lucas, Dude,
you were trying to date two girls at once, Like
that's gross. Don't do that. You know why White, He's
just concerned about his position on the team and their
winning record. You know, you know what, I wonder if
(29:30):
that's why it lands on us and and made us
all so upset watching this, because there is no one,
not only holding any of these kids to account, but
even just giving them advice. I mean, you said it.
Even Karen's like, oh kid, cut, Oh my god, that's
the worst her son. Okay, So at the end of
this night, Lucas has has piste off both girls. He's
(29:55):
gone missing. He left his phone at home, so he's unreachable.
He has gone to to a bar. He's reeking of alcohol,
he's drinking on his pain meds. He goes and he
has sex with a stranger on a carousel in a mall,
breaking and entering, and then when he calls way too
much Bronzer on God's sake, when he's run this boy,
(30:18):
his mother doesn't say, where the hell were you? Why
do you smell like beer? Why do you smell like
this cheap perfume? You know? She's like, he gets away
with it. She's like, Luke, I'm so glad we've had
this talk. This was protective. Wherever he is right now,
it happening, bro not happened, No way, no God. How
(30:39):
do we fix it? You guys? I mean, how do
we like, how do we look with rose colored glasses
on this episode? Well, I don't know if we look
on this episode with rose colored glasses. But I will
say it helps me to know where we're going. It
helps me to know who these characters turn into. It
helps me to know that even though there was a
(31:02):
clearly like misogynistic, abusive, gross lens on this episode, our
show does supersede that it does learn over the years
to advocate better for for women and for us like
not always not. You know, we are very honest about
the flaws here, but I I have to say that
(31:25):
that's kind of the only way I can deal with it.
And I will say, I will say the one sort
of stellar moment for me in the in the mess
of how so many people get treated in this episode,
I actually did think there was great writing in the
scene where Lucas comes to bro. Yes, that's a good scene.
(31:53):
You know. We I's gonna put it out there. We
had been pushing back for the first fifteen episodes of
this season. We were like, don't take our clothes off
and don't like, don't make us do weird stuff. And
this episode felt a little bit like, Okay, you girls
want to be the prudes. Cool, We'll let you be
the prudes and we'll bring in someone else. And the
performances that came out of that between Barbara and between
(32:16):
you Rip and Lucas a new asshole, and between Joy
being this like great plucky best friend that is like
why are you being so weird? You know that's seen
in the cafe between you and Lucas and Karen is fantastic.
You know, you kept the levity of the show going.
And so I like watching the female performances in spite
(32:39):
of what was on the page. It makes me feel
good about what we did as a unit. Me too,
And it's interesting to find, like you said, Joy, the
rose colored glasses for me are the winds inside of
the mess and and kind of the eye of the storm.
Of this for me is a girl finally beginning to
know her worth. And when Brook looks at Luke Guess
(33:00):
and says, I used to feel inferior to you, and
she realizes that she let all these ideas. She felt
small around this boy. She felt like she wasn't smart enough,
for good enough, for well read enough, or didn't know
enough about music, and she just looks at him and
it's like, but I'm a good person and you're not
(33:20):
right now, yeah, yeah, And I was just like, god,
that's a win. For girls who've been through whatever version
of this, and I don't know if that might if
we're doing roses and thorns in the whole episode, is
a thorn that would be my rose? You know what?
My roses? Um? NICKI in the bar with her pickup
(33:40):
lines was so dreamy, which she says, nice eye contact. Um.
That was a pickup line that I'd never heard before.
Friends me neither. No. Yeah, I've also never seen that
magic trick before. Wait, but here's the thing. Somebody, somebody
in the writer room was like, I know a magic trick.
(34:01):
We got to work it into the episode. Somebody's kid
did it in science class. They brought it into the
writer's room and showed everybody and they were like, we
got to put this. And also she just playing with
matches the whole time, like she's a pyromaniac. Was a fyromaniac.
So while we watched that was like, she's bad. She
(34:24):
plays a fire. She's bad, well, because you were like,
why does she keep lighting things on fire? And I
was like, it's how we know she's bad, Like who
did this? So great? But by the way, hats off
to Emmanuel, we love her. And she came in and
and she just she committed to everything. But you can
(34:48):
see on her face that she always felt like she
had the upper hand. Yeah. Yeah, she always felt in control.
She was And you know, it's funny because we had
been pushing back and we had been saying, we feel
really uncomfortable, and the big threat was, well, well, well
we'll bring in somebody else. And Emmanuel was like, these
girls are little girls. I'm a grown up and she
(35:09):
was playing someone over eighteen, you know, that's the difference. Yeah,
And she was like, I like myself, I look badass.
I feel great about this. And we were like, oh
my god, she's amazing. Your power to her. We love her.
I think they thought we were going to hate her,
and instead we loved her. I think we were all
like drawn to her. Oh yeah. I had lunch with
(35:31):
her one time, and she was so like just in
the middle of the shoe. We just went out and
grabbed some lunch, and she was like, she's just so interesting,
so well traveled, so well read. She's very magnetic. Yeah.
I really liked her. I liked her a lot too.
Why didn't we sell her? Well, you know who knows,
so ha ha jokes on them. My Roses also broke
(35:52):
at the door. I love, I loved. I just loved
that moment. I really did and it and it still
spoke to the girl and side of me that gets
nervous around men I'm attracted to, and I should like
my tongue swells up six sizes because I don't know
how to talk, and I'm like, I don't know what
to do with my Is that your tell? Is that
how we know you like somebody? Now when we're all together,
(36:15):
all right, we're all now enjoy No, it doesn't, actually,
but I do get. I do kind of clam up
and I get I just start to feel I don't know,
it's like it's a little girl thing of feeling inferior
and feeling like I'm not good enough for whatever reason. Um,
I'm working on it. But but I love that moment
at the door. That that really was so cool for
(36:36):
me to watch and it still spoke to me even
all these years later. I loved it. You did a
really good job with that. So that was And we
were all so cold and stressed out this episode. I
can see the stress on all of us in this episode,
and guys like knowing what a wet North Carolina winter
feels like and all of our hands are in our
(36:58):
pockets and our body these are just like super tense
and we can't move our mouths. Um, it's just cursed episode.
Is that we'll call this the cursed episode? That'll be
the title of the podcast. This one is cursed? Cursed?
(37:22):
Do we have any listener questions? Oh, that's a great idea. Okay,
this one's from Alexa. Alexa asks, I've always wondered what
it was like for each of you when the show
grew in popularity. What was the most overwhelming part of
your stardom. Was there anything you had to change about
your daily routines? Oh? Interesting? Um? I was? I mean,
(37:44):
I don't know. We were living in Wilmington's it was
a little different, Sophia. You were in l A more
than any of us. Was l A A different? Like? No,
l A was actually always easier just because there's more
industry and people seem to care less. Um, I can
certainly go for first because I I think I'm probably
the person with the worst social anxiety that will take
(38:09):
care of you. I'm like, outside is hard. Um. That
was always really hard for me because there was this
what I realized was that there was an expectation for
me to be like loud and into it and wanting
to party like Brooke and um, I love to go
out and adventure with groups of people I know, but
the the the inward bound from strangers was really hard
(38:35):
for me. And I actually that apartment that I loved
so much, I had to move because people people figured
out that I lived there, and then I could never
get into my home without someone literally standing in between
me and my front door. And when you're a single
girl being alone for the first time, it made me
feel really really unsafe. And I still feel like deeply
(39:00):
unsafe when just normal boundaries aren't respected. But that was
pretty scary. So yeah, I mean my daily routine was
I had to move out of my apartment and move
somewhere else. That was kind of a bummer. Hillary, did
you have any well. I think Peyton helped me establish
boundaries because I had been the VJ at MTV that
(39:21):
would like go out into Times Square and be in
the crowd, and I was always with people and it
was not a big deal when people would be touching me.
And I will say that like post nine eleven, I
probably had some PTSD about it. Um. The crowds became
really scary to me because there was a threat. It
was like a danger. And I did never think that
(39:42):
I would be the thing that a crowd would collect around,
that like us filming together would be the thing, because
before I was always the person just covering the crowd,
if that makes sense. I was peripheral. And so when
we kind of got thrust into the center of things,
that was terrifying because there wasn't ever an exit strategy
(40:04):
and I'm always the person that's looking for an exit strategy,
and so that was kind of weird. But because Peyton
was so confrontational and so flip, you know, it afforded
me the luxury of being able to do that in
real life. And so if someone was crossing boundaries, I
could say hey you and like they laugh because I
(40:27):
was in king, you know, And so it it gave
me a lot of freedom to be ornery in a
way that was protective UM, which I still utilize that
like not have that luxury. Yeah you were the nice girl.
(40:47):
I know everybody expected that Hay to be so nice,
but I I also grew up with a lot of
issues with boundaries. But my way of dealing with it
was not too I would go on the offense and
like it. I would. I was rude. I was I
was just like, don't invade my space, leave me alone,
don't you know? I don't. And I think also, I
(41:07):
was a New Yorker before I before I got this show.
I mean I had lived in l A for a year,
but I grew up in Jersey and in the city,
and like I was felt like a New Yorker and
in New York people aren't weird about it. It's just like, hey, girl,
I want you all my stories, you know, like love
seeing you like you know, and you just say, hey,
(41:28):
what's up? And you keep on walking. But having people, yeah,
find out where you live follow the van home um,
which happened a lot in Wilmington's um. You know, people
in restaurants coming up and talking to you in the
middle of your meal and you're trying to have a
private conversation. And I didn't know how to handle it
into what to do. And my my answer to feeling
(41:49):
suddenly forced into a situation I didn't want to be
in was to shut it down immediately. I didn't I
didn't have the tools to learn how to be gracious
about it or you know, thank you so much. I
really appreciate it. You know, I'm just having a private
moment right now, but I'd love to come talk with
you afterward, you know, or whatever. I didn't have those tools.
(42:10):
I didn't know. There was no way to teach us that. Yeah, yeah,
so I think that was that was hard. It was
that was a long lesson to learn because you just
don't know what to do. What do you do? And
I don't know. It's awkward. Yeah, it takes a long
time to learn what those boundaries are. And by the way,
all three of us are pleasers and so hard, it's
(42:34):
really hard. And it's hard also to learn how to
set a boundary and then not lose sleep for the
next three nights feeling guilty about it. Yes, you know,
and I think I finally had to realize, if you know.
A friend of mine said this to me. Was like,
if you worked at a tech company and eight people
were over your shoulder tapping you on the shoulder, bring
(42:55):
what are you doing? What are you doing? What are
you doing? You'd be like stop it. But like, for
some reason, when you're an entertainer, you're not supposed to
do that, and so I had to learn what what
my boundaries were, like I'm not going to get up
from my meal with my family, but if you're here
when we're done, I'll see you at the door. Like
things that could create that, But it's also you've got
(43:16):
I mean, it might be like you you could be
nice to the first three people and then the fourth
person and then the fifth person, by you get time
to get to the seventh person in the day, and
you're just tired of being interrupted, and maybe you're having
a hard day, and maybe there's some crazy happening in
your life. It's just, oh my god, that's joy. That's
the worst when you've got happening in your life, which,
by the way, we were in our early twenties, there
(43:37):
was happening in our life every other day day, and
so having to do that and also be like pleasing
and like hey everybody, yeah, of course I want to picture.
I loved taking pictures of people. But then I also,
I mean, I don't think it's a secret. I started
smoking too, because I realized that if I was smoking,
no one would talk to me. And I was like,
(43:59):
oh my god, joy, this magic trick When I would
hang out because Peyton can do bad things. Because Peyton
Sawyer is a bad girl. Her and Nikki should have
fallen in love instead of falling in hate. So that's
the thing. It's like. And I wasn't even smoking half
the time. I was just like holding it because when
(44:19):
you're doing that, you're unapproachable, right, But if you're just
standing outside looking at your phone or like doing whatever,
you're totally approachable. And so yeah, if you want to
carry around a pack of Virginia Slims and look and
look real unapproachable, that's the trick. Wow. Yeah, I had
no idea. That's a good that's a good trick. Yeah.
Sometimes people will post pictures of those days on the
(44:40):
internet and I'm so embarrassed. But I'm also like, you
know what, I was, Tony too, what do you want
for me? I was a mess. I'm trying to figure
it out whatever. I'm growing up now. But a great question.
It's it's fun to think about that stuff. It's also
a little cringey because I know I was. I'm sure
that I was rude to some people that I wish
I hadn't been, probably too hard to I was just
like shut it down and nope, I can't. Nope, sorry, no,
(45:02):
thank you, you know I'm busy or whatever. I just
didn't you know whatever, We didn't know well. But I
think it's also it is really worth repeating that you
can't be all things to all people at all times,
and especially in a town like ours. There's two sides
to every coin, right, And like, what an amazing thing
(45:23):
that during spring break weeks we'd have five hundred people outside.
My god, I think got about you know well, but
to realize how much your show means. But also, you
can't get through town with five hundred people following you around.
There's a point where you have to go. You gotta
back up, You've got to stop. I'm just I can't. Also,
working like we're working long hours and and going out
(45:45):
and sit chatting with fans, it actually sucks a lot
of energy out of us. But then we also have
to still go back and do our job, which is
why I hardly ever went out and took photos with fans,
because it's not because I was opposed to it. It
was that I knew how much energy would suck out
of me, and I knew that I had a whole
day's day of workload ahead of me that I wouldn't
be able to do my job properly if I had
like released all that energy out to other people. Well,
(46:08):
especially because you're an introvert, you know, like, yeah, that's
what I mean. It sucks a lot of energy out
of me. I made it kind of my thing where
I was like, at work, I will come when I can,
and outside of here, please respect my personal life. So
it made it was the thing that actually made me
feel free being able to go do that. Um. We
have one of the question from Kristen that is when
(46:30):
you had musical artists on the show, did you ever
get to talk or hang out with them? Um? Yeah,
I feel like we've talked about Gavin, Like Gavin came
to play pool with us at the bars. Um well,
I mean I had a mega crush on Grace Potter.
Oh yeah, she was awesome girl. And she came out
(46:52):
with like me and Beth crook Am I think one
night and I was just like, oh my god, she's
so cool. She's so cool. Yeah, I loved her. The
folks stayed on the show a bit. I mean we
were all too scared to say anything to Cheryl Crowe
but as the years went on, you know, Kate Vogel
became a character, Tyler was a character. So it was
(47:14):
so fun because we got to have Pete Wentz Oh
my god. Oh like we got to have all these
wonderful relationships and friendships with people who initially came on
the show for their music. Yeah, and don't forget Bethany
Joe Lens. I liked our fake music friend Kevin Federline, like,
(47:39):
oh yeah, Kevin lip synced. He did not really sing
on the show. And we'll tell that story when we
get there because it's one of my favorite stories in
the show. Um. But we went out to oh what
was that bar that was on the corner of Front
Street and then like where river View Suites are. All
I remember is being in this bar very late at
(48:00):
night and Kevin Federline buying everyone's shots and being so
lovely and so fun and so like he was awesome.
He was. I was so mad they cast him and
then he ended up being so lovely and so oh
Nick lash was really great. We had a good run.
We had a good run. If we could have Okay,
(48:25):
so here's my question to piet back that, um, if
we could have any musical performer on that would also
have to have dinner with us and hang out with
us after the fact. Who would we have? Oh man,
this is really tough. I know. Listen, I only asked
the hard hitting questions. That's hard Pete Yourn, I feel
(48:49):
it would be are you gonna kiss Pete Yourn? No?
I haven't. I don't even I even listen to his
music in many, many years. But I don't know why
his name just popped up. I looked up Pete your
not long ago joy and he has the same exact
hair that he had in two thousand, like the long hair,
and I was like, God, bless, Oh that's awesome. I
hear Sean Mullins is pretty cool too. Guys. I just
(49:13):
want to have dinner with Stevie Wonder. So I picked
Stevie one. Yeah, that's a good one. Amazing. I mean, look,
I I had an answer, but you said Stevie, and
my brain went straight to Stevie Nicks and I was like, oh, queen,
I mean, there's so many legends. There's so many legends. Well,
I was gonna say boy George because when I was
(49:34):
in high school I was obsessed with boy George and
I think if we're going to be drama queens and
add a layer of bitch to this show, Yes, yeah,
he's the queen. Um. Yeah, those are good questions. You
all want to spin a wheel? Ye? Shall we spend
a most likely wheel? I mean, honestly, where did Pete
Jorne come from? Why is that in my brain? I
(49:55):
don't know, but I'm about to listen to him as
soon as we're done. Now I'm gonna go. I know.
Now I'm gonna go with Okay, folks, give it to him.
So who who's most likely to end up in prison?
I think in this episode, Lucas brother is drinking, breaking
an addecent exposure in a public place. Yeah, totally, you're right,
(50:22):
breaking the law? Yeah? Wait, who's most likely to get
arrested in Like Nikki for sure would have been arrested
as an accessory, so they're both going to jail. Yeah yeah,
and statutory rape, but that's a different story, guys, we're
not going to Oh man, I like him young? Can
we live that life? That was awful? That's how you
(50:43):
know it's a bunch of dudes being like, you know what,
I wish the hot girl in college and said to
me when I was in high school. Gross gross, so gross,
I mean in real life and most likely to get
arrested Leonora's everything. But by the way, like Lee is
the one who at like two o'clock in the morning
(51:04):
is like Heckaine from across the street, Like, do we
have any like hippies who would be like at the
you know, real, I'm selling such an old person calling
somebody a HIPPIEPPI. You know, people who would like the
man piket lines and who would be like, uh, you
know in the front of somebody would get arrested for sofia.
(51:26):
It would be yeah, you're for real going to get
arrested on a on a protest line at some point?
Have you before I've been threatened. No, I've been threatened
with arrest on a protest line multiple times. Um. But
there's just like a couple of key phrases you need
to learn about your rights. And then they're like us
that one's read the law and they move on. What
are they educated? Well, I'll write you up a whole
(51:48):
I'll write you up a whole document. There's there's multiple
to learn that they're not going to memorizeiting. Maybe we'll
post it in the stories as a resource protest resource.
I like, oh my god, yeah, all right, it's your lucas.
You guys are trouble. One is political, one is perverted.
I'm down, damn the man. The next episode, number seventeen,
(52:12):
we have spirit in the nights. It's going to be better,
you guys. I believe in the next episode. I believe
in us. It cannot be worse than this. Well, here's
the thing. We all end up in such awesome places.
We gotta turn it around at some point, right, Yeah,
and hopefully we'll be less cold. Um, So let's see
(52:32):
how the next episode shapes up. You guys have been also,
thanks for hanging out with us. Guys, thanks Darlin's Hey,
thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.
You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens
o t H or email us at Drama Queens at
I heart radio dot com. See you next time. Were
(52:52):
all about that high school drama girl, Drama girl, all
about them high school queens forever. We'll take you for
a ride at our call the Girl Cheering for the
Right teas Drama Queens Dreelise my glup Girl Fashion but
your tough girl, you could sit with us. Girl Drama, Queens, Drama,
Quez Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queens
First of all, you don't know me. Were all about
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high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in
our comic girl cheering drama Queens up girl Fashion. But
you'll tough, girl, You could sit with us. Girl Drama
Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Queen's Drama Drawn MC Queen's Drama Queens. Guys,
(00:25):
welcome to another episode of Drama Queens. Um. We just
watched the worst episode so far. Let's just cut cut
to the chase. Need wine. Yeah, listen, we're all opening
bottles of wine because it's two. We are drinking to bear.
This was episode sixteen. It was called first Cut is
(00:45):
the Deepest, and it's a deep, nasty cut. I'm embarrassed
that this is the episode. We had Cheryl Crow come
on like she had read this script. We were so
excited when we saw the title for this episode because
we're like, yeah, it's the sheet throw up episode. It
aired March second of two thousand four. The synopsis is
that Nathan must choose which parent to live with after
(01:08):
Dan and Deb's divorce, and Lucas meets a newcomer who
has deeper ties to Tree Hill than expected. Um, this
is going to be a long pore friends, hold on, Yeah,
concidentally we are drinking our fit vine wine. Thanks guys.
So this Yeah, this was an embarrassing episode. Um. And
(01:29):
we got a lot of information that we've been looking for,
but boy did we have to We got one We
got one piece of information we've been looking for, and
we got a lot of repeat exposition. This was like
an entire episode that could have been condensed into two scenes.
I feel like there was nothing new. We didn't learn
anything new. It was dripping with misogyny while we were
(01:52):
watching the episode, and um, we we introduced this new
character played by Emmanuel who we all love, but it
was just seemed kind of so random. And then of
course we learned at the end, um that she's Jenny's mom.
But that piece of information plus the dead piece we're
really the only things that we got out of this
(02:13):
episode is so strange to me. Oh and the Dan
at the Dan and Keith contract thing. Yeah, it was
so just like blip. We'll we'll get into all of it. Um.
I I have trouble with this episode so much, and
we're going to get into it. I think it's important
to remember it was two thousand four at this point,
(02:36):
and the rules for what boys did on TV was very,
very different back then. So so for all the people
out there that are like, now you're making fun of Lucas,
first of all, he's terrible in this episode. But second
of all, we are looking at this through a lens
of and we are grown up ladies and we are
allowed to just wag our finger at this. It is gross,
(03:01):
So let's let's get into it. This felt to me
like the height and this was, as you said, Hillary,
this is the height of trying to compete with Gossip
Girl and the OC when they were on the air. Yeah,
this salacious um there was. It seemed like maybe not
a lot of effort put into the dialogue um, which
(03:24):
is frustrating. You can tell in the first scene when
we're all in the quad and I think none of
us are really I'm not committing to my dialogue. I'm like,
I'm going to say these words because if I don't
say them, then we've got to do it again. But yeah,
they're so clunky and weird, and it's like, yeah, it's
just some strange scripting. I mean, listen, everybody for you
guys who are listening along, and you're like, oh, I
(03:46):
don't want this to be a downer. I don't want
to just listen to you guys complain. I get it.
I don't want to complain either. So we're going to
find our nuggets in here. We're gonna find our golden
nuggets and the things that we love are we gonna
go mining. Let's go, let's go mining. But you know
it isn't It is important to acknowledge when something was
not up to snuff, like not up to standard, and
(04:08):
and it makes us appreciate the moments that were great
on our show so much more when we can compare
it to UM moments, Like it's really true and I
think there's really something to that. Like, you know, we
we watched the episode and then we always take a
snack break. In tonight's case, it was let's all grab
(04:29):
a glass of wine, break an hurry. I was enjoy
before you came back. I was telling Hill that I
the episode was so terrible that I just stressed ate
my whole we watched it was like, um, but it's
actually really funny because I ran in the other room
(04:50):
and Grant was like, how was it. I was like,
it's the worst episode we've done so far. If there
are any fans out there, they think that episode sixteen
is their favor head episode, like they tell us, because
I don't know why, I've never heard anyone say that
they loved this episode. Um, I would like to talk
about deb the best performance of the episode. She was great. Yeah.
(05:15):
I was really bothered that this was her big secret,
that she that she fell in love with another man
while she was married to someone who is abusive, narcissistic, um,
just torturing her mentally, emotionally, constantly using her son against her.
You know, we've seen Dan's behavior and the fact that
(05:36):
as a human being, she would get um, she would
have have a need to be loved and adored and
all the things that she deserves as a grown woman,
and that she would fall into that with someone else naturally.
I mean, I'm not excited that anyone's marriage is falling
apart ever, or an affair or anything, but the fact
that that that was the idea of her big scary,
(05:59):
dark secret. It when he's just so awful to her,
I don't know, helped me talked me through this, and
then they wrote it in a way where it was
the thing she could never reveal because she would be
the bad one, not the abusive husband who's financially controlling,
who by the way, has almost, if not definitely, cheated
(06:21):
on her before. Like the idea that it would make
her unlovable, she'd be shunned. Even even the way that
the writers wrote Nathan's dialogue after the reveal, Nathan's response say,
you are the reason Dad is like this with me.
You caused him to torture when we saw Dan's whole family,
(06:42):
we saw we saw the episode with Royal, we know
where he comes from, we get it. And the fact that,
oh heaven forbid a woman cheated she excommunicator. Listen, y'all
heard me in the last episode. I don't care. I
don't I'm cheering on a deb Scott affair because one
(07:03):
it's her taking her future into her own hands. Um.
What really bothered me is how Barbara played this really well,
because she walked into the room with Nathan and was
terrorized by the idea of having to admit this. And
so what that informs us is when Dan found out
that she was leaving him for someone else, he threatened
(07:25):
her so severely that she panicked and came back. You know,
like this was done in two thousand three, in a
time when you could divorce your husband and still have
custody of your child, whether that's shared custody or soul
custody whatever, um. But whatever he said to her when
(07:47):
she announced I love someone else was enough for her
to be so scared she came back. And she said it,
she said, when I realized I could lose you, I
can't back. Why would she lose him? Like that doesn't
make any sense, but you know, in whatever way, Dan
would do what Dan does and threaten her and say
(08:09):
she was an unfit mother and tell lies about her
like we've seen him do it already. That's why living
with him, she wasn't willing to lose Nathan. And and
then for Nathan to say, for them to have written,
let's clarify, this is the writing, for them to have
written that Nathan's reaction is all of this is your fault. Oh,
(08:29):
I didn't like it. It really to me. I was
like the reek of misogyny. Gross's gross. Hey, if this
is a triggering storyline for anybody that's listening, if you're
in a bad spot there are resources, and the mythology
that like you'll lose your kids and that your life
is over and you're a scorned woman, Like all of
(08:49):
that's bullsh You know, there are great resources out there
and all you gotta do is google them, um, find
your safe space. But it is always better to choose
safety and happiness and joy. And I hate that Deb
didn't do that. And now maybe some of her behavior
in the later seasons is making sense because we're seeing
(09:10):
the trauma unfold. And I didn't recognize it as a
younger viewer me either. I didn't know that that is
what happens in marriages because I was a kid, you know. Yeah. Meanwhile, Lucas,
by the way, it gets to and look, I'm sorry,
I know you guys don't want us bagging on Lucas,
but look, it's good for a character to have an arc,
and right now his flaws are glaring, and that's okay.
(09:31):
But what bothers me about this whole scenario is, on
one hand, we're seeing Deb who is feels deeply sorry
about this, and she's you know, trying to figure out
for trying to find her way in life, and she's
in an abusive relationship. Let's make no qualms about that.
And then we've got Lucas on the other hand, who
has been playing the field with both girls and uh
gets to kind of get off Scott free. Yeah, they're
(09:53):
mad at him, but like his mom is all like, oh,
it's okay, don't worry. Everything's gonna be fine, you know.
And then oh and he gets to take home a
you girl from a bar and like mess around with
her and have fun at the carousel. It's so double standard.
This episode is the boy fantasy. It is absolutely the
boy fantasy. Because Dan his control over everyone is on
(10:15):
full display in this episode. He's got control over deb
He's got control over Nathan giving him the car he's
a where's my thank you? He's got control over Lucas
because I saved your life. Where's my thank you? And
he's got control over Keith now yes, And so that's
his fantasy. And then Lucas from the first scene that
we see him, like running the brook and he's like,
(10:37):
we didn't mean to hurt you. Like, first of all,
we we bro Peyton was saying no, no, no, no, no,
no no no no. Pick her at her most vulnerable
when she thinks her dad is dead, and like get
her to admit, okay, yes, I like you, what do
you want from me? And then convinced her that your
(10:58):
soulmates like it's out to be us, and then you
drag her into the best friend fight. I just I
I own Peyton's mistakes, but like, it's a hard one
for me to swallow when he's like, hey man, it
was being Peyton this whole time. We were just you know,
plotting against you. Sorry, well, and I think what's hard
to watch, you know, because like you said, when we
(11:22):
were kids trying to figure out how to do this,
we were going to work and doing the things written
for our characters. So I was like, you're both betrayers
and this, that and the other. But watching it now,
I feel for these young girls in in a in
like your older aunt who you asked the questions to
that you never would ask your mom. I have that
(11:42):
kind of energy for all of these girls, and my god,
it makes me crazy that we didn't see at the
time that what was happening. And again, guys, we have
to separate anybody's like you know, personal adoration of the
show from what was written for us to do and
the writers wrote a very long and very toxic and
(12:07):
very gentle pressuring Lucas pressured Peyton in a way that's
not okay. A guy who loves you isn't supposed to
do that to you. And and the betrayal that comes
out of that for him to then throw on her
evenly it does. It does from girl Camp. It feels upset.
(12:28):
What what's the what do you mean when you say
the pressure that he's putting on her? Like what Hillary
is talking about, how that character was written for episodes
and episodes and episodes were meant to be together, were
meant to you do you want to be with me? Right?
You do? He goes at her physically when she is
in a state of associative trauma. Her dad might be dead,
(12:51):
she has to go to the morgue and see a
dead body. And it's just so it's a kind of pressure.
It is again, and I know this stuff can be
very triggering, but it's we've all been taught to fear
the like scary guy in the alley, the like horrible
thing that can happen, you know, a sexual assault like
(13:11):
laun or SPU style. And what we've come to find
is that so many more women who experienced that experience
it from an intimate partner or as a date rape scenario,
and and the energy of this well, I'm not saying
that that's what was written for Lucas to do to Peyton.
What I am saying is it's on the spectrum of
intimate partner abuse, and it's it's really hard to watch.
(13:34):
It's taking advantage of someone who needs a friend really bad.
You know, I don't doubt like Lucas and Peyton or endgame,
they obviously saw something in each other. They found safety
in each other. It is a very messy, bumpy road
to get there, and they're teenagers. Their teenagers, you're supposed
(13:54):
to screw up. But what he is doing is not okay,
and he admits it in this episode at the Bay.
You know, we caught so much for calling out Lucas
in these episodes for doing this exact thing. And then
literally he's in the bar with Nikki and she says,
you got a girlfriend, and he says, well, I had to,
(14:17):
you know, like hed it. So for all of you
who gave me a nearful, I see you and I
raise you. A Night of the Blue post where he
admits it in this episode, So I feel vindicated personally absolutely,
And listen, I like what you said. You know, these
two characters, the really magical stuff we see in the
(14:38):
beginning is why Lucas and Peyton are endgame. It's why
they wind up in a good place. But I think
what's hard for us as women who as as we've
also talked a lot about it. We have more language,
more understanding, more data, We understand the nuance of abusive
relationships and all of these things, these themes we're talking
(14:58):
about in the show, and to look back on it,
it's not just like cringeing it. It's hard to watch
because we see things that are toxic being modeled as romantic. Yeah,
and it's also like, guys, you know, we also saw
behind the scenes from people who were in the position
(15:22):
of writing this stuff, a lot of toxic um behavior, behavior, communication, um,
just outlook on the world, outlook on women. We saw
all that happening in real time, in real life, and
knowing that those people were the ones, some of those
people were the ones in charge of writing the material
that we were performing, it's it is a little harder
(15:45):
for us to just look at it objectively and say, oh,
Lucas was blah blah blah or just this or just that,
because we know what was behind the personalities writing some
of this stuff and so um, so if it seems
like we're exaggerating or you know, blowing it out of proportion,
we have a we have a behind the you know,
(16:07):
scrim perspective. Yeah. I was gonna say, pay no attention
to the man, but please do like please do see
you know, this is a little bit more than just
what was on screen. And so I think that's a
lot of what we're reacting to. And and it's also
a good thing for people to to think about in
real life too, is there is there um going about
(16:28):
their relationships and scenarios where I don't know if it's
partnerships or friendships or whatever. It just to recognize that
there's always it's it's always a little bit more than
just what you see on the surface. Yeah, that's a
good point. Joy, I'm glad that you Yes, it's you
know the one. It was so dark for the first
(16:49):
few scenes of this episode because we were all just grimacing,
and then it was the scene in the cafe with
Joy where she she says the line it was just
like all times minus one spleen and I was so good, Like,
Haley did not have anything to do this episode. Everybody
(17:10):
was like dealing with like chaos and having sex on carousels,
and Haley is just like you guys here show crows
in Town, show Chrome, you know, show crows in Town.
I wonder who's going to guest star in this episode? Interesting? Also,
let's just be real. First of all, the hilarity of
trying to win tickets on eBay and you're like the
(17:34):
l yeah, I've got a high speed internet connection, sweet baby, Nathan,
oh my god, and and the like purity of the
less technical times matched to you at the end when
she's like how much do I owe you for the coffee?
When Nathan's like, you're being so awkward and you go
(17:55):
a song a cup of song, like he's so old?
Can you imagine someone actually saying that to Cheryl Carl
I love that about it. I love that about her.
She totally would do that. Has anyone pulled that on
(18:16):
you in real life? Has anyone tried to bother with you?
I don't know what I would do. Somebody was like,
if you sing for me right now, I'll give you
whatever blah blah blah. If I give you this Curry Joy,
this curry Diner, free, will you sing as the song
free Curry. I'd have to be really in the mood.
(18:37):
I'd have to be in the mood. But Cheryl Crow
was in the mood. She was so sweet when she
came in. Um, A lot of people were there. Everybody
kind of we all showed up. We were hiding in corners. Actually, guys,
I said that when we watched the episode for everybody
listening at home, we all were shocked because that Karen's
cafe was more packed than it's ever been for anything.
(18:58):
And then we realized in the scene that it was
supposed to be empty. But we all remember that night
as like a hundred people being there because we were
we were just hiding off camera. Yeah, where were we?
I feel like we were all tucked away in the
corners of actually over why where the table was where
um Moira and I and Chad all had that one
scene earlier. I think everybody was kind of on that
(19:19):
and we were like people were sitting on the bar
and behind the bar because the dollies, the big, the
big pieces of equipment, y'all that the cameras rest on.
They're kind of like big heavy wagons. The dollies were
in front of the actual countertop, and so we were all,
I mean people, We might as well have been hanging
from the rafters trying to watch her sing, but we
(19:39):
were so storks. Total money did they have to pay
show grow to come into One Tree Hill. I'll tell
you one thing that was in her deal that I
know how to have been in her deal was that
she scored the whole episode. Like they used her I
don't know if she scored it, but like they used
only her music for the whole episode. Was only her songs. Yeah,
that makes so smart. Yeah, I would have done that.
(20:01):
And her guitarist, Jeff is somebody. Actually I ended up
writing with UM a couple of years later, A year
or so later when I got my contract with Epic Records.
I remember that. Yeah, they hooked me up with that guy, Jeff,
and he was such a sweetheart. We wrote some fun
stuff together UM, and I was just super stoked to
be working with anybody that had worked with Cheryl besides
Billy Joel. She was like, my my Mecca. Did you
(20:23):
use her music as auditions songs? Because I did oh
and karaoke songs. Yeah, there was like a girl group
that was getting like formulated in the nineties in d
C at the Kennedy Center. That's where they were doing
the auditions. And I had to go audition, right, and
my first audition song was like an ace of bass
(20:43):
song and they were like, you did a kid, you
did it. Uh, you're coming back for a callback, you know,
And it was it was so gross and like predatory.
And but then my callback song was all I want
to do is have some fun and he and it's
it's so cool that she came on our show because
she imprinted on us was like our middle school years, right,
(21:08):
you know. She's a really big deal. And I wish that, um,
we'd all gotten to hang out with her, because she
would have been one of those older chicks that would
have imparted some wisdom. I can feel it. I think
so too. I wish we could have asked her some questions.
I wish so too. I mean, I wish we had
been able to have more time with her and just chat.
But she was really sweet, and I think we were
(21:29):
all really nervous. I was sweet, too nervous to talk
to her about music or anything, but I should have
she had an album. I think it wasn't the Globe
Sessions because that was the super popular one that really
broke out, but she had one that was kind of darker.
I think maybe it was just called or it was
just called Cheryl Crow. And the song is so heartbreaking
first cut as the deepest, like, yeah that I've cried
(21:52):
to that song. I want to say there was a
breakup during our One Tree Hill tenure that involved that
song breaking my heart over and over again. And yeah,
she was amazing. You know what else I loved in
this episode. I loved the I mean, I know it's
a rough time, you know, Peyton and Brooke by the
way winding up drinking together, cheersing that Lucas went home
(22:15):
with another girl is so again the writing is so insane.
But Hillary, we did a great job in that scene.
You know, here's something. If we got to hang out
a blue post all night, we had a great time.
We had a great time. It was fine. We were
like definitely playing ski ball when they were changing camera lenses,
for sure, But I did love the the kind of
(22:36):
sweet quiet moment with our other favorites. We were robbed
with Peyton and Jake and you making the mobile for
Jenny was really really cute. But again, so this show
like sped through stuff. You know, Joy made such a
good point when we were watching the episode, She's like, God,
(22:58):
you know you talked about success Ship. Yeah, one of
my favorite shows on HBO. So what's what I love
about Succession? And it's not everyone's cup of tea, no,
no show is, But um I what I really love
about Succession is that you get to know the characters
and even though they all sort of have these they're
all kind of bad, yeah, but you you fall in
(23:20):
love with them because of their humanity because it takes
so long to see things unfold that in between all
the bad choices, you see the good possibilities. I mean,
it's the reason that we people fall in love with
with unhealthy partners, right, because you see all the good
possibilities right before the horrible choice, bad day. Right. And
(23:42):
and but what's great about it is it draws you in.
It triggers that part of the human brain that loves
a cliffhanger because we want to solve the mystery, want
to see what's going to happen. And TV has really
leveled up and why Succession is an example of that
is because they really take a long time. It's a
slow burn to reveal all of these story points and
the and the plot points as they twist and turn
(24:03):
and and uh. The more I watch our show, the
more I'm getting whiplash with all of the how fast
everything is happening. And it's a shame because we've got
good actors, we've got interesting characters, we've got a beautiful
setting and a great setup for story. But because we're
blowing through it so fast, we're missing out on the
(24:25):
anticipation and that, you know, all the all the excitement
that you get from just slowly wandering through a journey
and then boom, getting surprised by a twist and turn.
How good, how juicy would it have been if for
two or three whole episodes we saw Keith stressing about money,
going through other avenues of trying to get alone, admitting
(24:48):
it to Karen, her looking at her finances, figuring out
what would happen if she took out a second mortgage
on the cafe, him saying I'm not gonna let you
do it. The slow burn, the slow burn, the slow burn,
Dan finding out ahead of time and like lauding and waiting.
What if Dan let people think like he really was
going to do the right thing. What if we thought
two episodes Dan was going to do the right thing
(25:09):
and and then the oh he's your boss, that guy
showed up. It would hurt so much worse. It would
be so much deeper. And what about introducing uh Nikki? Yeah,
we had three episodes before with like these weird little
moments and she's in and out and we're like, oh,
we've got this new character and who is she and
why she is and the reveal. Yeah, it's just a lot.
(25:31):
I mean, do you guys think it was because we
were constantly on the bubble and always afraid of it,
Like they were always afraid that we were going to
get canceled. They were just trying to shove everything in.
So here's what's also insane is that, now that we've
spoken to so many other people who were on shows
in the same era as our show, everyone was always
told they were on the bubble, and it was it
was a ploy. It wasn't a real thing. Like, isn't
(25:54):
that sucks so bad? Guys? It's like finding out about Santa.
It's just like, what where time we could have been
having fun instead of strussed scared all the time. Well,
so the Jacob it all. It's hard for me because
I see how much fun I'm having with Greenberg. I
see how much fun Peyton and Jake are having together.
(26:15):
But Peyton literally just dive bombed her one friendship, like
her one true love Brook. You know that relationship has
imploded over Lucas and Peyton's already like watching movies with Jake.
Just it. As a former teenage girl, I was a
(26:36):
teenage girl, believe it or not. When you were in
love with someone, you don't automatically get your head turned
by someone else. When it falls apart, there is a
morning process, and I think having so many male writers
was a detriment because that process was never really explored.
You know, Brooke just goes straight to like scorched earth
(27:00):
um and it's like I'm going to destroy everything and
you're the loser, and you're a loser, and you're a loser.
You know, Peyton went from being with Nathan to being
sort of with Luke right away, and then now all
of a sudden, it's like this Jake thing is happening,
and it's like, is her only value in being with
a person like being with a dude? Um, that's hard,
(27:23):
that's I mean, I'm sure that's something that we deal
with in real life. But I would have appreciated if
Jake had gotten the respect he deserved and there would
have been a little bit of breath between the you know,
chapters of dudes. Yeah, that's a great point. I do
think it's interesting when people say, you know, why is
(27:46):
representation so important? It's stuff like this. You know, if
there had been more women in positions of power, I
think maybe that would have been different. I think maybe
someone would have said, you got to give her a minute,
Like she's going to go home and cry into her pillow,
right that's the scene, a scene like where is paying
at home weeping over this? By the way, where was
(28:07):
Brooks opportunity to like weep over this? Brook never cries
right like at home by herself. And it's weird, and
it's like, and if she's not going to cry, if
she's the kind of person that's going to refuse, I
won't allow this to get me so sad or whatever.
I want to know about that, and I want to
know why, why is she like that? You know. Also,
(28:27):
did you guys have nosy teachers at school? No? No,
I had a camp counselor once who I thought was sweet,
like she was invested a little bit more than others.
But I didn't have nosy teachers. My teachers knew every
boy that I kissed, every boy that I talked to, Like,
my teachers always knew what I was involved in. And
(28:47):
so when oh it was so great, and when it
would go sideways, like they were completely invested in it,
like and it was incredibly sweet, you know, and so
they would pull you aside lovingly and like trying to
give you some good advice and you know, steer you
in the right direction. There's nobody at Trio High that
(29:08):
is saying either to the girls like, Babe, this ain't
worth it, This ain't it, or conversely like saying to Lucas, Dude,
you were trying to date two girls at once, Like
that's gross. Don't do that. You know why White, He's
just concerned about his position on the team and their
winning record. You know, you know what, I wonder if
(29:30):
that's why it lands on us and and made us
all so upset watching this, because there is no one,
not only holding any of these kids to account, but
even just giving them advice. I mean, you said it.
Even Karen's like, oh kid, cut, Oh my god, that's
the worst her son. Okay, So at the end of
this night, Lucas has has piste off both girls. He's
(29:55):
gone missing. He left his phone at home, so he's unreachable.
He has gone to to a bar. He's reeking of alcohol,
he's drinking on his pain meds. He goes and he
has sex with a stranger on a carousel in a mall,
breaking and entering, and then when he calls way too
much Bronzer on God's sake, when he's run this boy,
(30:18):
his mother doesn't say, where the hell were you? Why
do you smell like beer? Why do you smell like
this cheap perfume? You know? She's like, he gets away
with it. She's like, Luke, I'm so glad we've had
this talk. This was protective. Wherever he is right now,
it happening, bro not happened, No way, no God. How
(30:39):
do we fix it? You guys? I mean, how do
we like, how do we look with rose colored glasses
on this episode? Well, I don't know if we look
on this episode with rose colored glasses. But I will
say it helps me to know where we're going. It
helps me to know who these characters turn into. It
helps me to know that even though there was a
(31:02):
clearly like misogynistic, abusive, gross lens on this episode, our
show does supersede that it does learn over the years
to advocate better for for women and for us like
not always not. You know, we are very honest about
the flaws here, but I I have to say that
(31:25):
that's kind of the only way I can deal with it.
And I will say, I will say the one sort
of stellar moment for me in the in the mess
of how so many people get treated in this episode,
I actually did think there was great writing in the
scene where Lucas comes to bro. Yes, that's a good scene.
(31:53):
You know. We I's gonna put it out there. We
had been pushing back for the first fifteen episodes of
this season. We were like, don't take our clothes off
and don't like, don't make us do weird stuff. And
this episode felt a little bit like, Okay, you girls
want to be the prudes. Cool, We'll let you be
the prudes and we'll bring in someone else. And the
performances that came out of that between Barbara and between
(32:16):
you Rip and Lucas a new asshole, and between Joy
being this like great plucky best friend that is like
why are you being so weird? You know that's seen
in the cafe between you and Lucas and Karen is fantastic.
You know, you kept the levity of the show going.
And so I like watching the female performances in spite
(32:39):
of what was on the page. It makes me feel
good about what we did as a unit. Me too,
And it's interesting to find, like you said, Joy, the
rose colored glasses for me are the winds inside of
the mess and and kind of the eye of the storm.
Of this for me is a girl finally beginning to
know her worth. And when Brook looks at Luke Guess
(33:00):
and says, I used to feel inferior to you, and
she realizes that she let all these ideas. She felt
small around this boy. She felt like she wasn't smart enough,
for good enough, for well read enough, or didn't know
enough about music, and she just looks at him and
it's like, but I'm a good person and you're not
(33:20):
right now, yeah, yeah, And I was just like, god,
that's a win. For girls who've been through whatever version
of this, and I don't know if that might if
we're doing roses and thorns in the whole episode, is
a thorn that would be my rose? You know what?
My roses? Um? NICKI in the bar with her pickup
(33:40):
lines was so dreamy, which she says, nice eye contact. Um.
That was a pickup line that I'd never heard before.
Friends me neither. No. Yeah, I've also never seen that
magic trick before. Wait, but here's the thing. Somebody, somebody
in the writer room was like, I know a magic trick.
(34:01):
We got to work it into the episode. Somebody's kid
did it in science class. They brought it into the
writer's room and showed everybody and they were like, we
got to put this. And also she just playing with
matches the whole time, like she's a pyromaniac. Was a fyromaniac.
So while we watched that was like, she's bad. She
(34:24):
plays a fire. She's bad, well, because you were like,
why does she keep lighting things on fire? And I
was like, it's how we know she's bad, Like who
did this? So great? But by the way, hats off
to Emmanuel, we love her. And she came in and
and she just she committed to everything. But you can
(34:48):
see on her face that she always felt like she
had the upper hand. Yeah. Yeah, she always felt in control.
She was And you know, it's funny because we had
been pushing back and we had been saying, we feel
really uncomfortable, and the big threat was, well, well, well
we'll bring in somebody else. And Emmanuel was like, these
girls are little girls. I'm a grown up and she
(35:09):
was playing someone over eighteen, you know, that's the difference. Yeah,
And she was like, I like myself, I look badass.
I feel great about this. And we were like, oh
my god, she's amazing. Your power to her. We love her.
I think they thought we were going to hate her,
and instead we loved her. I think we were all
like drawn to her. Oh yeah. I had lunch with
(35:31):
her one time, and she was so like just in
the middle of the shoe. We just went out and
grabbed some lunch, and she was like, she's just so interesting,
so well traveled, so well read. She's very magnetic. Yeah.
I really liked her. I liked her a lot too.
Why didn't we sell her? Well, you know who knows,
so ha ha jokes on them. My Roses also broke
(35:52):
at the door. I love, I loved. I just loved
that moment. I really did and it and it still
spoke to the girl and side of me that gets
nervous around men I'm attracted to, and I should like
my tongue swells up six sizes because I don't know
how to talk, and I'm like, I don't know what
to do with my Is that your tell? Is that
how we know you like somebody? Now when we're all together,
(36:15):
all right, we're all now enjoy No, it doesn't, actually,
but I do get. I do kind of clam up
and I get I just start to feel I don't know,
it's like it's a little girl thing of feeling inferior
and feeling like I'm not good enough for whatever reason. Um,
I'm working on it. But but I love that moment
at the door. That that really was so cool for
(36:36):
me to watch and it still spoke to me even
all these years later. I loved it. You did a
really good job with that. So that was And we
were all so cold and stressed out this episode. I
can see the stress on all of us in this episode,
and guys like knowing what a wet North Carolina winter
feels like and all of our hands are in our
(36:58):
pockets and our body these are just like super tense
and we can't move our mouths. Um, it's just cursed episode.
Is that we'll call this the cursed episode? That'll be
the title of the podcast. This one is cursed? Cursed?
(37:22):
Do we have any listener questions? Oh, that's a great idea. Okay,
this one's from Alexa. Alexa asks, I've always wondered what
it was like for each of you when the show
grew in popularity. What was the most overwhelming part of
your stardom. Was there anything you had to change about
your daily routines? Oh? Interesting? Um? I was? I mean,
(37:44):
I don't know. We were living in Wilmington's it was
a little different, Sophia. You were in l A more
than any of us. Was l A A different? Like? No,
l A was actually always easier just because there's more
industry and people seem to care less. Um, I can
certainly go for first because I I think I'm probably
the person with the worst social anxiety that will take
(38:09):
care of you. I'm like, outside is hard. Um. That
was always really hard for me because there was this
what I realized was that there was an expectation for
me to be like loud and into it and wanting
to party like Brooke and um, I love to go
out and adventure with groups of people I know, but
the the the inward bound from strangers was really hard
(38:35):
for me. And I actually that apartment that I loved
so much, I had to move because people people figured
out that I lived there, and then I could never
get into my home without someone literally standing in between
me and my front door. And when you're a single
girl being alone for the first time, it made me
feel really really unsafe. And I still feel like deeply
(39:00):
unsafe when just normal boundaries aren't respected. But that was
pretty scary. So yeah, I mean my daily routine was
I had to move out of my apartment and move
somewhere else. That was kind of a bummer. Hillary, did
you have any well. I think Peyton helped me establish
boundaries because I had been the VJ at MTV that
(39:21):
would like go out into Times Square and be in
the crowd, and I was always with people and it
was not a big deal when people would be touching me.
And I will say that like post nine eleven, I
probably had some PTSD about it. Um. The crowds became
really scary to me because there was a threat. It
was like a danger. And I did never think that
(39:42):
I would be the thing that a crowd would collect around,
that like us filming together would be the thing, because
before I was always the person just covering the crowd,
if that makes sense. I was peripheral. And so when
we kind of got thrust into the center of things,
that was terrifying because there wasn't ever an exit strategy
(40:04):
and I'm always the person that's looking for an exit strategy,
and so that was kind of weird. But because Peyton
was so confrontational and so flip, you know, it afforded
me the luxury of being able to do that in
real life. And so if someone was crossing boundaries, I
could say hey you and like they laugh because I
(40:27):
was in king, you know, And so it it gave
me a lot of freedom to be ornery in a
way that was protective UM, which I still utilize that
like not have that luxury. Yeah you were the nice girl.
(40:47):
I know everybody expected that Hay to be so nice,
but I I also grew up with a lot of
issues with boundaries. But my way of dealing with it
was not too I would go on the offense and
like it. I would. I was rude. I was I
was just like, don't invade my space, leave me alone,
don't you know? I don't. And I think also, I
(41:07):
was a New Yorker before I before I got this show.
I mean I had lived in l A for a year,
but I grew up in Jersey and in the city,
and like I was felt like a New Yorker and
in New York people aren't weird about it. It's just like, hey, girl,
I want you all my stories, you know, like love
seeing you like you know, and you just say, hey,
(41:28):
what's up? And you keep on walking. But having people, yeah,
find out where you live follow the van home um,
which happened a lot in Wilmington's um. You know, people
in restaurants coming up and talking to you in the
middle of your meal and you're trying to have a
private conversation. And I didn't know how to handle it
into what to do. And my my answer to feeling
(41:49):
suddenly forced into a situation I didn't want to be
in was to shut it down immediately. I didn't I
didn't have the tools to learn how to be gracious
about it or you know, thank you so much. I
really appreciate it. You know, I'm just having a private
moment right now, but I'd love to come talk with
you afterward, you know, or whatever. I didn't have those tools.
(42:10):
I didn't know. There was no way to teach us that. Yeah, yeah,
so I think that was that was hard. It was
that was a long lesson to learn because you just
don't know what to do. What do you do? And
I don't know. It's awkward. Yeah, it takes a long
time to learn what those boundaries are. And by the way,
all three of us are pleasers and so hard, it's
(42:34):
really hard. And it's hard also to learn how to
set a boundary and then not lose sleep for the
next three nights feeling guilty about it. Yes, you know,
and I think I finally had to realize, if you know.
A friend of mine said this to me. Was like,
if you worked at a tech company and eight people
were over your shoulder tapping you on the shoulder, bring
(42:55):
what are you doing? What are you doing? What are
you doing? You'd be like stop it. But like, for
some reason, when you're an entertainer, you're not supposed to
do that, and so I had to learn what what
my boundaries were, like I'm not going to get up
from my meal with my family, but if you're here
when we're done, I'll see you at the door. Like
things that could create that, But it's also you've got
(43:16):
I mean, it might be like you you could be
nice to the first three people and then the fourth
person and then the fifth person, by you get time
to get to the seventh person in the day, and
you're just tired of being interrupted, and maybe you're having
a hard day, and maybe there's some crazy happening in
your life. It's just, oh my god, that's joy. That's
the worst when you've got happening in your life, which,
by the way, we were in our early twenties, there
(43:37):
was happening in our life every other day day, and
so having to do that and also be like pleasing
and like hey everybody, yeah, of course I want to picture.
I loved taking pictures of people. But then I also,
I mean, I don't think it's a secret. I started
smoking too, because I realized that if I was smoking,
no one would talk to me. And I was like,
(43:59):
oh my god, joy, this magic trick When I would
hang out because Peyton can do bad things. Because Peyton
Sawyer is a bad girl. Her and Nikki should have
fallen in love instead of falling in hate. So that's
the thing. It's like. And I wasn't even smoking half
the time. I was just like holding it because when
(44:19):
you're doing that, you're unapproachable, right, But if you're just
standing outside looking at your phone or like doing whatever,
you're totally approachable. And so yeah, if you want to
carry around a pack of Virginia Slims and look and
look real unapproachable, that's the trick. Wow. Yeah, I had
no idea. That's a good that's a good trick. Yeah.
Sometimes people will post pictures of those days on the
(44:40):
internet and I'm so embarrassed. But I'm also like, you
know what, I was, Tony too, what do you want
for me? I was a mess. I'm trying to figure
it out whatever. I'm growing up now. But a great question.
It's it's fun to think about that stuff. It's also
a little cringey because I know I was. I'm sure
that I was rude to some people that I wish
I hadn't been, probably too hard to I was just
like shut it down and nope, I can't. Nope, sorry, no,
(45:02):
thank you, you know I'm busy or whatever. I just
didn't you know whatever, We didn't know well. But I
think it's also it is really worth repeating that you
can't be all things to all people at all times,
and especially in a town like ours. There's two sides
to every coin, right, And like, what an amazing thing
(45:23):
that during spring break weeks we'd have five hundred people outside.
My god, I think got about you know well, but
to realize how much your show means. But also, you
can't get through town with five hundred people following you around.
There's a point where you have to go. You gotta
back up, You've got to stop. I'm just I can't. Also,
working like we're working long hours and and going out
(45:45):
and sit chatting with fans, it actually sucks a lot
of energy out of us. But then we also have
to still go back and do our job, which is
why I hardly ever went out and took photos with fans,
because it's not because I was opposed to it. It
was that I knew how much energy would suck out
of me, and I knew that I had a whole
day's day of workload ahead of me that I wouldn't
be able to do my job properly if I had
like released all that energy out to other people. Well,
(46:08):
especially because you're an introvert, you know, like, yeah, that's
what I mean. It sucks a lot of energy out
of me. I made it kind of my thing where
I was like, at work, I will come when I can,
and outside of here, please respect my personal life. So
it made it was the thing that actually made me
feel free being able to go do that. Um. We
have one of the question from Kristen that is when
(46:30):
you had musical artists on the show, did you ever
get to talk or hang out with them? Um? Yeah,
I feel like we've talked about Gavin, Like Gavin came
to play pool with us at the bars. Um well,
I mean I had a mega crush on Grace Potter.
Oh yeah, she was awesome girl. And she came out
(46:52):
with like me and Beth crook Am I think one
night and I was just like, oh my god, she's
so cool. She's so cool. Yeah, I loved her. The
folks stayed on the show a bit. I mean we
were all too scared to say anything to Cheryl Crowe
but as the years went on, you know, Kate Vogel
became a character, Tyler was a character. So it was
(47:14):
so fun because we got to have Pete Wentz Oh
my god. Oh like we got to have all these
wonderful relationships and friendships with people who initially came on
the show for their music. Yeah, and don't forget Bethany
Joe Lens. I liked our fake music friend Kevin Federline, like,
(47:39):
oh yeah, Kevin lip synced. He did not really sing
on the show. And we'll tell that story when we
get there because it's one of my favorite stories in
the show. Um. But we went out to oh what
was that bar that was on the corner of Front
Street and then like where river View Suites are. All
I remember is being in this bar very late at
(48:00):
night and Kevin Federline buying everyone's shots and being so
lovely and so fun and so like he was awesome.
He was. I was so mad they cast him and
then he ended up being so lovely and so oh
Nick lash was really great. We had a good run.
We had a good run. If we could have Okay,
(48:25):
so here's my question to piet back that, um, if
we could have any musical performer on that would also
have to have dinner with us and hang out with
us after the fact. Who would we have? Oh man,
this is really tough. I know. Listen, I only asked
the hard hitting questions. That's hard Pete Yourn, I feel
(48:49):
it would be are you gonna kiss Pete Yourn? No?
I haven't. I don't even I even listen to his
music in many, many years. But I don't know why
his name just popped up. I looked up Pete your
not long ago joy and he has the same exact
hair that he had in two thousand, like the long hair,
and I was like, God, bless, Oh that's awesome. I
hear Sean Mullins is pretty cool too. Guys. I just
(49:13):
want to have dinner with Stevie Wonder. So I picked
Stevie one. Yeah, that's a good one. Amazing. I mean, look,
I I had an answer, but you said Stevie, and
my brain went straight to Stevie Nicks and I was like, oh, queen,
I mean, there's so many legends. There's so many legends. Well,
I was gonna say boy George because when I was
(49:34):
in high school I was obsessed with boy George and
I think if we're going to be drama queens and
add a layer of bitch to this show, Yes, yeah,
he's the queen. Um. Yeah, those are good questions. You
all want to spin a wheel? Ye? Shall we spend
a most likely wheel? I mean, honestly, where did Pete
Jorne come from? Why is that in my brain? I
(49:55):
don't know, but I'm about to listen to him as
soon as we're done. Now I'm gonna go. I know.
Now I'm gonna go with Okay, folks, give it to him.
So who who's most likely to end up in prison?
I think in this episode, Lucas brother is drinking, breaking
an addecent exposure in a public place. Yeah, totally, you're right,
(50:22):
breaking the law? Yeah? Wait, who's most likely to get
arrested in Like Nikki for sure would have been arrested
as an accessory, so they're both going to jail. Yeah yeah,
and statutory rape, but that's a different story, guys, we're
not going to Oh man, I like him young? Can
we live that life? That was awful? That's how you
(50:43):
know it's a bunch of dudes being like, you know what,
I wish the hot girl in college and said to
me when I was in high school. Gross gross, so gross,
I mean in real life and most likely to get
arrested Leonora's everything. But by the way, like Lee is
the one who at like two o'clock in the morning
(51:04):
is like Heckaine from across the street, Like, do we
have any like hippies who would be like at the
you know, real, I'm selling such an old person calling
somebody a HIPPIEPPI. You know, people who would like the
man piket lines and who would be like, uh, you
know in the front of somebody would get arrested for sofia.
(51:26):
It would be yeah, you're for real going to get
arrested on a on a protest line at some point?
Have you before I've been threatened. No, I've been threatened
with arrest on a protest line multiple times. Um. But
there's just like a couple of key phrases you need
to learn about your rights. And then they're like us
that one's read the law and they move on. What
are they educated? Well, I'll write you up a whole
(51:48):
I'll write you up a whole document. There's there's multiple
to learn that they're not going to memorizeiting. Maybe we'll
post it in the stories as a resource protest resource.
I like, oh my god, yeah, all right, it's your lucas.
You guys are trouble. One is political, one is perverted.
I'm down, damn the man. The next episode, number seventeen,
(52:12):
we have spirit in the nights. It's going to be better,
you guys. I believe in the next episode. I believe
in us. It cannot be worse than this. Well, here's
the thing. We all end up in such awesome places.
We gotta turn it around at some point, right, Yeah,
and hopefully we'll be less cold. Um, So let's see
(52:32):
how the next episode shapes up. You guys have been also,
thanks for hanging out with us. Guys, thanks Darlin's Hey,
thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.
You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens
o t H or email us at Drama Queens at
I heart radio dot com. See you next time. Were
(52:52):
all about that high school drama girl, Drama girl, all
about them high school queens forever. We'll take you for
a ride at our call the Girl Cheering for the
Right teas Drama Queens Dreelise my glup Girl Fashion but
your tough girl, you could sit with us. Girl Drama, Queens, Drama,
Quez Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queens
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