October 4, 2024 • 54 mins
The repercussions of overturning Roe v. Wade have been devastating for many women. One of them is Amanda Zurawski, who nearly died after being refused life-saving healthcare.
Amanda shares her harrowing story with Sophia - one that should never have happened. Amanda was looking forward to being a new mom when the unthinkable happened: she suffered complications during her pregnancy. Doctors informed her that the baby wouldn't survive, but due to Texas' abortion ban, they were unable to terminate the pregnancy. Amanda went into septic shock twice before getting the care she desperately needed.
Now, she's fighting for reproductive rights so that other women will never have to endure the same trauma she did.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello,
smart and dedicated and wonderful friends of Work in Progress.
(00:20):
Today we are joined by a personal hero of mine.
Amanda Zarowski is a woman who lives in Texas. You
have probably heard of her. Her water broke two days
before the extreme Trump abortion band fell in Texas. She
was eighteen weeks pregnant and devastated to find out that
(00:43):
her fetus had absolutely no chance of surviving. And despite
knowing this, doctors in Texas were too scared to give
her the care that she needed to save her life,
and Amanda went into septic shock, not once, but twice.
She is left with a permanently closed fallopian tube due
to scar tissue. She suffered unbelievable loss and then unbelievable
(01:08):
pain on top of it. Her and her husband are
still hoping to start a family, but they have turned
this pain and this honestly assault of women that has
come from these Trump abortion bands into incredible and breathtaking purpose.
Amanda is one of the plaintiffs who sued the state
(01:29):
of Texas for denying her necessary medical care, and she
has been fighting for women and pregnant people around the country.
Ever since, she has been able to show that this
idea that doctors are supposed to make quote good faith
judgments without protection at the risk of being jailed, does
not go far enough to actually protect the lives of women.
(01:52):
Amanda is a personal hero of mine. She has become
an incredible advocate in our fight for equality, and she
even took the stage at the DNC along with former
Presidents and first Ladies and Vice President Kamala Harris to
stand with her husband Josh and tell their story. I'd
(02:12):
also like to add a trigger warning to this episode.
We do discuss miscarriage and pregnancy loss, and if it
feels overwhelming to you, this might be a good time
to sit this one out. We will make sure that
we have links to resources, to places where you can
get involved, volunteer, and even donate in the Instagram stories
(02:36):
for this episode, so if you don't think you can
handle listening to it, you can still get involved. I'm
incredibly thrilled that Amanda is taking time from her schedule
campaigning all around the country and advocating for us to
sit down and have this conversation today. I hope you
enjoy it too. Hi there, Hey, Amanda how are you good?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I'm good, gosh, I mean, first and foremost, really, I
just want to say thank you. I can't imagine that
going through what you went through and then being thrust
onto the national stage has been easy. But I know
for myself and so many women that I speak to
about your case, about you know, the DNC, about all
(03:33):
of it, that we just are so tremendously grateful for you.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Well, thank you. I really appreciate you saying that it's
not easy, but it's been really healing, I think to
be able to channel such horror into something that hopefully
is going to change for some good. Yeah. But no,
I appreciate you saying that, I really do it goes
a long way, because some days are hard.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah. Well, and listen, any woman who is willing to
stand up for political progress, I know, takes a lot
of heat out in the world. So I do think
when we get to be together and just say hey,
I see you and really value you, it can help
the sort of relentless experience of essentially getting you know,
(04:18):
punched in the back of the head every time you walk,
you know, get on the internet.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, well, I really appreciate that and you know, I
just want to say, folks like you that use your
platform to do something good is just so heartworring and
you know, not something I think we saw for a
really long time. And so I'm really really grateful for
folks like you that lean in and are bringing attention
to things like this.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well, I'm sure glad to be in the fight with you.
And it's not lost on me that it's a bit
of a It gives me a little bit of whiplash
to say, you know, I wish we didn't live in
a world where women had to relive their trauma to
make progress or you know, for us to be treated
as people, And yeah, I know we do. And so
(05:01):
the irony of having to say that and then say,
for any of my listeners who don't know your story,
could you give me an overview of your story, I'm like,
I hate this and thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
It's okay, I know, I know it's it's it's been
really Actually, I think good to talk about us so much,
because I think it helped me process a lot faster
than really otherwise. Yeah, my therapist and I talk about
it a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Oh wow, Okay, Well I'm I'm really I'm really glad
to hear that that there's that there's kind of a
progressive nature to it for you personally as well.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, yeah, sure, I mean it. It took a while,
and I was in a pretty rough spot for a while,
but we're here now, so okay.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, for the you know, for the listeners who are
tuned in with us, Amanda's story is incredibly you know,
unique and also unfortunately not unique at all, given what
Donald Trump and the GOP has been working to and
then managed to succeed with nominating three judges to the
Supreme Court for the explicit purpose of overturning our protections
(06:10):
to healthcare through O v. Wade and the Trump abortion
bands that fell all over the country have affected so
many of us. I mean, for our folks at home.
One in three women today lives in a state where
she cannot access the health care that she needs. And
we are a podcast where facts are facts and there
(06:34):
are no alternative ones, and I want to be very
clear that abortion is healthcare, and Amanda, your story is
I think particularly heart wrenching for so many of us
because you do live in a state where your rights
changed essentially overnight. You were denied life saving care in
(06:54):
Texas because their abortion ban meant that when you lost
to pregnancy, you were not able to have the procedure
you needed to save your at risk life as immediately
as you needed to have it. Can you walk folks
through what happened and why you were denied care at
(07:17):
that stage.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, so you are exactly right that my story is horrific,
but unfortunately is becoming more and more common the longer
that these bands are in place, And in my state
of Texas, there's almost a complete abortion ban that went
into effect as a matter of fact, two days after
my water broke. So this was twenty twenty two, and
(07:41):
I was pregnant with a baby that my husband and
I wanted so so much. We tried for about eighteen
months before we were finally able to get pregnant, and
I made it to about eighteen weeks and unfortunately suffered
complications where we learned there was no way that we
could safely reverse course, and so our doctors told us
(08:03):
we were with one hundred percent certainty going to lose
the baby. Now, that in and of itself, was the
most horrific, awful news, of course, that anyone could ever
ever imagine but then on top of that, you know,
this was my first pregnancy, And I said, okay, so
what happens next? What do we do? And my doctor said, unfortunately,
(08:24):
I can't do anything because terminating the pregnancy, even though
the baby won't survive, terminating the pregnancy would be considered
an abortion, which is now illegal, and she would be
at risk of losing her license or even going to
jail if she terminated the pregnancy. So I had to
wait until either the baby's heart stopped or I met
(08:47):
the medical exception in Texas, which is life of the mother.
So essentially I was locked in this hell of will
a baby's heart stop or will I deteriorate the brink
of death first? So we're waiting for one of these
terrible outcomes. What happened was I went first, So I
three days later went into septic shock and nearly died,
(09:11):
and my doctor had to stabilize me enough to deliver
the baby. But then I went into septic shock again
and ended up spending a total of three days in
the ICU and a week in the hospital.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh my god, and I want to I don't know
if the appropriate thing is to say, you know, I'm
about to say something very technical and also upsetting to
folks listening. I don't know if the appropriate words to
use or trigger warning, but to be clear, when a
woman like Amanda, or like I would imagine many of
(09:44):
you unfortunately have if you look at the data of
how often women experience miscarriages and pregnancy loss complications, even
fetal anomalies. The position you were put in because there
was still connectivity from your body to the fetus, there
was still electrical pulsing happening between the two of you,
(10:06):
this baby that you wanted so badly, that you knew
was not going to survive, for you to be put
in a position where, rather than giving you the DNC,
you needed to preserve your life to also preserve, let's
be medically frank, the health of your uterus for future pregnancies.
You were put in a position where doctors had to
(10:27):
look at you and essentially say, we're going to have
to let this fetus die on its own and begin
to decay in your body and we'll see what happens.
It is the most barbaric, horrific thing I have ever
heard of. And to know that you went through this
(10:48):
and we're basically told to wait, and then nearly died,
not once, but twice. I cannot fathom how any any
leader of any party could claim to be pro child,
pro family, pro anything other than control and do this
to people, do this to women, do this to families.
(11:09):
And in the days between you so graciously confirming that
you would come and have this conversation with me, and
the day that we sit here recording. Just today, Pro
Publica published news about another young mother, Amber Nicole Thurman,
who was also denied the DNC that she needed to
(11:33):
because her body had not expelled fetal tissue in Georgia,
and she was begging the doctors to consider the life
of her six year old son and what would happen
to him if she died, And they made her wait
until she went into sepsis and then operated on her
after twenty hours in the emergency room, and she did die.
(11:54):
We are literally killing women in America to earn some
sort of place political points, and I can't really fathom
how that's pro life. I also can't fathom how a
party that would do this to women and also vote
to take away the child tax credit from parents could
(12:16):
claim to be pro life. Yet here we are. You
went through such a trauma. How how did you then
decide to say, Okay, my plan is to take legal
action against the state of Texas. Was it in the
(12:37):
personal experience of asking these same sorts of questions, or
was it because you heard about how many other women
it was happening to in your home state at the
same time, or both.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That's a good question. So from a timing perspective, I
was probably one of the first people impacted by this band,
just because, like I said, it went into effect that
same week that I had complications, So I hadn't yet
heard of this happening to other people. But my husband
and I got to talking once I had recovered but
(13:09):
I was still in the hospital. We got to talking
about how insane this was, that this had happened and
that I literally almost died, and we were talking about,
you know, I am the best case scenario here because
I have a job that will let me take time
off work, I have a husband who can get me
to a hospital, we have health insurance, we live close
(13:30):
to a hospital, we don't have other kids that we
have to worry about child care for, and we just
kept thinking, you know, if someone doesn't have one of
those same privileges. It's going to be a lot worse
and people are going to die. And so in talking
about how insane and barbaric this this is and this was,
(13:50):
we were like, we have to do something now. Suing
the Safe Texas wasn't the first thing that came to mind,
because I kN know that you could do I had
a lawyer before. But we decided we were going to
start speaking out because we wanted to warn people. We
wanted people to know this is what's going on. And
so we just got connected to people who were in
(14:12):
this fight, and through some of our early advocacy, people said,
you know, really you should consider taking legal action, and
we were connected to the Center for Reproductive Rights, which
is the organization that represented us in the lawsuit. And
once we met with them and understood what this would
look like and what it would mean, we were like,
(14:33):
all right, this feels like the right decision.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Wow, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's
a word from our sponsors. How did those first initial
meetings go, Because I imagine you're still in the you know,
you're in the fog of loss, You're dealing with grief,
and walking into these rooms you and your husband and
(14:59):
having to talk to all these attorneys and these advocates,
and were they really focused on Texas or were they
also trying to give you a lay of the land
nationally so you all could put this into context. Did
it sort of feel like you signed up for a
law class all of a sudden. Maybe all of the above.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, all of the above. I'll be honest. In the
first meeting, I did not take it seriously at all.
I thought it was kind of crazy that we were
even meeting with these lawyers. Again, I had never had
a lawyer before for anything. I was like, I've never
sued anybody. I was like, what are we doing? Josh
to my husband, like what are we doing? But then
after about five minutes of meeting with our lawyers, they
(15:41):
explained what it would look like, and there was just
something inherently about them that I trusted. And it almost
feels like you know when you go on a really
great first date and you're like, oh, we just click,
or you meet a new friend and you're like, oh,
we just we'd mesh. That's how it felt, even though
it was just via zoom. Turns out my instincts were right,
but they explain to us what was going on across
(16:03):
the country, and the more we talk to them, the
more we realized that, Okay, this really is a win
win situation with this lawsuit, because either we win the
case yay, or we lose the case. But hopefully we
create enough of a splash and enough of awareness that
people are really outraged. And then Texas is clearly showing
(16:27):
us their true colors and they're showing us how much
they don't care about pregnant people. Hopefully that will get
people really upset and they'll start changing hearts and minds.
Maybe we'll even change some votes. And then the farther
it went along, we realized, Okay, actually, what we might
be doing here is giving courage and a voice to
other people, not just in Texas but in other states
(16:48):
who might also want to take legal action. And so
it just kept growing and growing and growing along the way.
But every step along the way you were like, Yeah,
this is going to change things no matter what happens,
we think that we can have a positive outcome from
this exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And is it ever sort of overwhelming to feel like
you are now one of the public faces of the
fight for reproductive rights in the nation? Or has continuing
to you know, take every step as it comes and
continue moving your way up this fight. Do you kind
(17:27):
of feel like you've built a team and you're not
doing this alone?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Again, Yes to all the above. It can definitely be overwhelming. Sometimes.
I also sometimes get imposter syndrome because I recognize that, like,
I am very new to this fight relatively speaking, and
there are people who have literally been fighting for fifty years,
and so I just want to call attention to that.
(17:53):
You know that people have been doing this work on
all scales, on all fronts for a really long time. Now,
I do feel like I've joined this club where I've
joined this team, and it's a really deep bench and
these people are really, really incredible who are doing this work.
And you know, the way that I've got to it
through loss is not how I ever would have chosen
(18:15):
to get here. But now that I'm here, I'm really
glad to be a part of this team because it's
a community, it's a family, and it's actually really beautiful
and it really stinks that all of my new friends
live all across the country, but it also, you know,
gives me a reason to travel and visit with these
folks and continue this work together.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah. Well, one of the things I think is pretty
impactful about you know, this reckoning that so many people
are having with how you can't really say, oh, I
don't do politics, because our entire life exists because of
politics and policies, from the roads we drive on to
(18:55):
the healthcare we have access to, you know, whether or
not we have clean water that come out of the
faucets in our homes. See these things that I think
for a long time a lot of people thought, well,
the adults deal with that somewhere else, and that's not
really for me. And it's really kind of a shock
to the system when you realize, oh, if not me,
(19:16):
then who. But I think it's also, if I may
really important when folks like yourself show up in this way. Yes,
you never would have chosen to wind up on this
team going through the loss you went through, but you
(19:36):
also are relatable to so many of the women in
the country in ways that some of the folks who've
been doing this for decades aren't. Because there are other
people who will say, well, I don't know that, I'm
not sure I know enough about that. Maybe it's not
appropriate for me to have an opinion, and we really
need everybody. We need everybody to say no, I'm pretty
(19:57):
sure not killing you know, women, not denying healthcare to
pregnant people, that should just that should just be whether
you're new to the fight or you've been in it
from the beginning. And I think our different types and
timelines of experience are so valuable in that way. So
I don't know, I would never look at you and
(20:21):
everything that you have done in the last two years
and like think you are an impost of any sort.
I think you are such a hero. I think you're
incredibly brave. I think you have figured out one of
perhaps the most impactful ways in our generation to turn
pain into purpose and to inspire other people to do
the same. And I A, yeah, I'm just really grateful
(20:44):
for all of it.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Well, I really appreciate you saying that, And I think
I think you really hit on something that I like
to talk about, which is that you know, for a
long time, I think people have felt like, oh, there's
nothing I can do. Politics is this big machine, my
vote doesn't really count, you know, all of those types
of things. But I think we're seeing that's just really
not the case.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
And one person's voice can have a huge impact, whether
it's you know, just the conversations that you're having around
your own kitchen table or in your own communities.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Like those are the conversations that change people's hearts and
minds and ultimately their votes, because we know that folks
need to see real people attached to these issues, whether
it's you or someone you know or someone you saw
in the news. That's how we move the needle. And
so I hope and I do believe that people are
starting to realize, especially with this election season, that their
(21:40):
voice really can make a difference and it is important
to get involved.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
It's critical, yeah, it is, and I think especially when
you start to realize that no matter how big the
system seems, it's just made up of each of us
as people. You know, we all know about. Speaking of Georgia,
the you know scandal, the attempt overturning the election, the
begging to find just eleven eight hundred votes. We're a
(22:05):
country of three hundred and thirty two million people. And
when you realize what the election can come down to
and the effect that who is in charge can have
on who gets to live, I mean literally who gets
to live, Who gets to survive. It's it's hopefully this
(22:25):
sort of aha moment that will, like you said, get
a lot more people involved. I'm curious for you because
you talk about, you know, your timeline, the relative newness
of this kind of advocacy for you, and you know,
now you're out on the campaign trail with the Vice
President of the United States.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah. I know.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I've been lucky enough, you know, as a Californian to
have her hold so many elected offices in my state,
and I've seen her advocacy for women and for the
LGBTQ community and for you know, safety and unity and
reform and all these things for so long, and it
was so cool for me to see her be elected
(23:08):
as the VP. It's it's such a personal battle for
someone of an office of that level in a way
we've never seen before. You know, She's the first president
or vice president I ever even visit a reproductive care clinic.
And I guess I'm just wondering, because she can seem
so much larger than life. What is it like for
(23:29):
you just to sit, you know, two women and have
conversations about what this fight looks like, and especially her perspective,
you know, being a leader for so long? Is it
sort of surreal? Is it way more normal than.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
You would expect?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Is it again all of the above. I have no
idea how this podcast has turned into a multiple choice quiz,
by the way, but.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Here we are. I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I've never done this before, but I guess it's all
the things I.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Think you must know to be a teacher. And I
love multiple choice question perfect. No, it's great, but yeah
it is. It's surreal that it stopped being surreal, you
know what I mean. Like after the fourth or fifth
time that I got to spend time with her, I
was like, oh, now it's not so weird when I
(24:19):
see her. Not that we're like gallpals, you know, hanging
out on the weekends, but I have been very, very
fortunate to spend a decent amount of time with her,
and I love the opportunity to talk about her as
a person because she is so genuine and personable and kind.
And I think we saw that you talked about this
(24:40):
after the DNC. She just brings this joy in this
energy and it's like just mind blowing that she has
been such a breath of fresh air and I want
to I want to tell you two stories. One is
I had been out on the trail and it had
been a particularly grueling schedule and I was home for
(25:02):
like twenty four hours, and being out on the trail
can be tough. It's not glamorous. It's a lot of work.
And I think she must have known what that's like.
And so I was out taking my dog for a
walk and I get a call that says, what does
it say when it's not blocked, unidentifiable or whatever? I
identified caller. I don't know why I answered this call
(25:25):
that is so unlike me, but for some reason I
answered it. I said, Hi, this is Amanda, and on
the other end, I hear Amanda, It's Kamala Harris. And
I was what she just called to check in and say,
you know, we know that you're out on the trail
and you're working hard, and thank you, and I mean,
we had this five minute conversation and she was just
(25:46):
a real person that cares about other people, and she
takes this very very personally. The other thing I want
to tell you is I was very lucky that I
got to take my childhood best friend Mollie with me
to an event at the White house where I was
introducing the Vice President, and as part of this, we
got to spend some time with vice president and my
(26:09):
friend Molly was just beside herself and she was very nervous.
And when we walked into the Vice President's office, Kamala
Harris says, hi Amanda from across the room, and my
best friend just screamed because she couldn't contain her excitement.
And then when we got up to see the Vice president,
it's a long walk because it's a big office, Molly
(26:31):
just started flat out crying.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
I'm just falling, just falling, and Pamala just gives her,
you know, this big hug and shakes her hand and says,
you know these beautiful things about how our girlfriends are
our chosen sisters, they're our chosen.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Family, and she said, I know how much you're supporting
Amanda and everything she's doing. And she's just such a
real compassionate, relatable person. I mean, she's just she's in incredible.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a
few words from our favorite sponsors. It's something I'm so
grateful like you to have seen up close. And the
thing I always like to say to people when they
ask me about her is I'm like, listen, she's the same.
(27:22):
She could be on the national stage talking about what
families deserve and what works and you know, all the
work they're doing and give this incredible speech where you
could be one on one in her office or you know,
on the side of some event and she'll just check
in and ask how you're doing. She is the same,
whether there are you know, a fleet of cameras pointed
(27:45):
at her or no cameras in the room. And it's
so special to see. We know that the other candidate
isn't like that. You know, he gets caught on camera
calling womenches and talking about sexually assaulting them, and you know,
bragging about Project twenty twenty five and how they're going
to take over America and never have to vote ever again.
(28:08):
And I'm like, how is this even a race? How
is this even allowed? You know, You've got this person
who will call a woman who went through an unspeakable
tragedy because of the opponent's policies, because of a Trump
abortion band, and she'll just call you when you're walking
your dog to check in on you. And this guy
(28:28):
is like out trying to figure out how to deconstruct
America and sell off the country for parts to like
the highest bidders in foreign autocracies. And I'm like, what,
what is this conversation we're having exactly about? Like who's
more fit to lead the country?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I know? Well, and just take a look at who
they pick for their running mate. Right, You've got the
guy from Ohio whose name I don't even want to say,
spreading vicious lies and rumors which are insite, and so.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Much hate against his own constituents, by the way, a
lot of threats, and know it's the people he's elected
to represent. It's such a dereliction of duty. Yeah, And
it's the same I feel the same about watching that
happen in Ohio as I feel about what you've gone
through and what so many other women have gone through.
I'm like, you're literally willing to get people killed, yeah,
(29:19):
to what to incite the worst people in our country
to do the worst things to other humans. That's what
you're willing to do to win. You're that power hungry.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I know. Meanwhile, you've got Tim Walls showing up to
a state fair, rolling up his sleeves, passing out corn
dogs and ice cream like a man of the people,
cares about his people, wants to take care of people.
I just I mean, I agree with you. I can't
let myself go down this rabbit hole too much because
it's frightening. But how are we here? Like, how is
(29:51):
this even a race? I don't understand. There is no
choice to me, it's so obvious.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Well it feels like that, right, It's like sometimes I
look around everybody taking crazy pills, like where are what's
here happening? But you know, I'm really curious, particularly for you.
You know, people will ask me because there's this like
big misnomer, right that you do what I do for
a living, and you're some crazy elitist And I'm like
sold on. The billionaire from Reality TV with a plane
(30:19):
convinced everyone else that the rest of us, who like
only have healthcare because we're union workers, are like somehow
the elite ones like what's going on? But you know,
I I think I feel so passionately about this because
I've had the good fortune of living all over this
country for work. I spent ten years in North Carolina.
I've lived in Texas, I've lived in New York, I've
(30:40):
lived in California. I've lived in New Mexico. Like I
I feel lucky to know people like you're talking about
through your advocacy, and I know people in so many
parts of this country and so many parts of the
world also through this work. And what I know about
us is that we mostly have the same goals, Like
we'd want our families to be safe, if we want
(31:01):
education to be good, I'd prefer to drive on roads
without potholes, and then the other way around, like kind
of basic you know, healthcare access would be great. I'm
really wondering for you as a woman living in Texas now,
you know, you are just statistically more surrounded by right
(31:25):
wing leaning women or women who vote that way anyway
than I am. You know, today when we're speaking, I
happen to be in New York, although it's getting to
be more of a toss up here, which is a
stressful conversation for another day. But like, what's your experience
in terms of the conversations you have in your hometown
(31:48):
and your home state. Do you think it's changing now
that people understand the real impacts of those judges and
what they've done. Does it still feel like an uphill battle?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
I mean, I think I think it's still going to
be a lot of work. I think we're still going
to have to fight pretty hard. But I can tell
you that I have had firsthand experiences not only in Texas,
where I live now, but also in Indiana, which is
where I'm from originally. That's where I grew up in
very similar political landscape. Conversations like the one you and
(32:23):
I are having, and like the ones we're having all
the time, are moving the needle. And like I said earlier,
it's these personal stories and putting a name in a
face to these issues that I think is what's going
to change people's opinions. And I mean, just look at
you know how often we hear the word abortion now
on mainstream news at the n C right a main
(32:44):
pillar of the entire convention. I think things are changing,
and they're changing rapidly. But we are going to have
to put in the work, and we are going to
have to realize, you know, obviously we want a Harris
Wall administration, but when they get elected, the work will
not be over. We will still have a fight to
(33:06):
suit up for. But I think people, I mean, we
know statistically, we know the data that most people don't
support these extreme abortion bands, and so I think that's
become very clear, and it's because of the conversations that
we're having in our own communities.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, and I think people starting to understand the facts.
You know, I believe it's ninety three percent of abortions
happened in the first twenty weeks. You know, it's it's
early stage experiences that make up most of that type
of healthcare. And you know, I was really heartened to
(33:49):
hear I have been really heartened to hear that more people,
whether it's you know, Secretary Buddhachedge doing what he does
best on Fox News, or even the conversations that we
were seeing in the debate, people saying, listen, someone who
has to have a late stage abortion isn't having it
because they want to. It's not a you know, decision
(34:12):
made on a whim. It's because of a fetal anomaly.
It's because of devastating medical news. And I think that
might actually be what makes these insane lies from Donald
Trump more insulting to me. You know, he has this
extreme rhetoric and he says, you know, abortions are happening
in the ninth month and babies are being executed after birth,
(34:35):
and I'm very glad. Lindsay Davis said, in no state
is that legal infanticide is not a thing anyone has
legalized ever anywhere. It's insane that a presidential candidate would
say that, But.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I feel bothered as a woman who has friends and
you know, acquaintances in the fight like yourself, who've experienced
pregnancy loss hearing a presidential candidate say that, you know,
people are just having these abortions this late essentially for fun,
(35:08):
because it's not true, and it's it so flies in
the face of the work and the hopes and dreams
of families that are trying to start or expand their families.
What is your reaction, you know, two years into this
journey that you are on as an advocate, what does
(35:30):
it feel like for you to sit and watch him
make those claims from the debate stage.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
It's so infuriating. I think prior to my experience, I
would have maybe scoffed and said something like, oh my gosh,
that's ridiculous. No one does that. But I agree with you.
It feels very personal now and it's just so disgusting
to me that he would make up these lies just
(35:55):
to I don't know why. I don't even know what
his purpose is, what he thinks he's accomplishing that, because
it's just simply not true, but it is. It does
feel like a personal attack. And also the fact that
he refuses to acknowledge that the bands that are allowed
to be in place today as a result of him
(36:15):
and his administration are having other impacts too that are
really really horrible that are also personal to me. For example,
I now have to use IVF to have children because
of what I went through. And so when Alabama and
the Supreme Court they're ruled, you know the way that
it did that halted IVF services, I just I was
(36:38):
so furious, and I'm like, they just want to make
it all about control, like you said, like when we
need an abortion, we can't get one. When we want
to have children, we can't have them. And it's just
so infuriating because it is all about control and it's
just so backwards and it's just disgusting. Oh, it makes
me so mad.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, And I mean, having been through a long and
exhaustive journey with fertility myself, I think about the amount
of time and the resources and the trauma and the
emotional exhaustion and the sort of reckoning that so many
people who go through whatever their unique experience with fertility
(37:23):
and fertility treatments look like. And the fact that, as
you said, because of the side effects of your being
forced into sepsis to get the care you needed, you
now have to rely on fertility medicine to start a family.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
It's like.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
They want to withhold your future from you, regardless of
how much work you're willing to put in for it.
But if God forbid, you have a medical emergency or
you were caught by surprise at a time when you
simply are incapable in your life, you need to make
the right decision for you. Yep, they don't want you
(38:03):
to be able to do that either.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
And I think the thing that stings the most for
me is that these decisions are being made by people
that have no experience or knowledge of what they're talking about.
They have not gone through this, they haven't experienced it
yet they feel that they have any sort of leg
to stand on that they can tell us what to do,
(38:27):
even though they've never been through it themselves. They have
no awareness, no knowledge. That to me, I think is
the worst part.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah, it was very surprising when, you know, when the
GOP started voting against protecting IVF and you started hearing
all these elected men from that party saying, you know, well,
we're just trying to make sure people can have babies,
and it's like, do you know what IVF is?
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Exactly? Do you? Oh? Do you?
Speaker 1 (38:52):
And you realize there's a reason politicians shouldn't have an
opinion and pass these sorts of laws that change our
acts to medical care because they're not doctors. I know
it can feel incredibly heavy, and I know a lot
of it is doom and gloom, and I don't want
to act as though it's not as serious as it sounds,
(39:13):
because it is. And yet I also know that we're
all in this fight because we believe there's a way
out of the darkness. We believe there's a way forward together.
And I'm really curious what you want to share with
people in terms of what makes you hopeful or what
(39:34):
you think they should be paying attention to, because at
this point you are on the campaign trail, you are
sitting with so many experts, whether legal or medical, or
you know, in the political sphere, and I wonder what
it is that makes you feel like you can keep
doing this.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I love that question. And honestly, it's the people that
I meet while I'm out on the trail, while I'm advocating,
while I'm listening. It is the people that I meet.
It's the people who are fighting in their own communities.
It's the people who are providing abortions where they can
in their own communities. It's the people who are shepherding
(40:12):
patients as they make this really really difficult decision and
take action. And also, I can't believe I'm saying this,
but it's the politicians too. I have met so many
wonderful people who who are serving our country and they
are really fighting for us, and as ugly as the
(40:34):
other side can be, it really brings me a lot
of peace to know that there are so many people
that are looking out for us and that are trying
to protect us and to protect our country. You know,
all the way from my own city council up to
Kamala Harris, I mean, there are really really wonderful people
that are working for us. And you know, the more
(40:56):
that I travel, the more people I meet, the more
I realized that at their most people are really good
and even though this is really hard. I like to
say that it takes it out of me. It puts
me to bed at night, but it also gets mad
out of bed in the morning.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, right, It's like the thing that
makes you so mad you could just burst into a
ball of flames. It's also that fire that like it
becomes the campfire, you know, the fuel that keeps you moving.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it would be a lot easier
to not be doing this, but you know, I just
feel such such a passion and such a purpose. And
I also feel like, Okay, we've made it this far.
How could I not keep going? How could I not
continue in this fight? Now that I know what I know,
I can't stop. I won't stop.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
That's really cool. I really appreciate that. And now for
our sponsors, what brings you all joy? I mean, I
know it's very heads down, it's very policy focused. You know,
we and I say this with no hyperbole to our
(42:10):
friends listening at home. You know, this really is The
elections have ratcheted up, right, They've gotten more and more consequential,
But like this is the one we either we either
protect this country for everyone or we lose it to
Project twenty twenty five, and it's over for most of us.
And I think people don't understand how bad it can get.
(42:31):
So I don't want to make light of it, but
I also want to honor the person that you are
and your whole, big, beautiful life and you know, your
joy and your career and your marriage and all of it.
And so what's bringing you happiness? What is refilling your cup?
(42:53):
You know for Amanda, and then what's doing that even
in your house like for you and your husband? Is
you navigate all of this? What's bringing me all joy?
How are you staying sane?
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I appreciate that question. Some days are harder than others. Definitely, Definitely,
our people right our circle, my family and friends have
been so so so supportive, which has been I think
the only reason that we can continue to do this,
and especially at this pace. It's been really remarkable. I
remember very shortly after we lost the baby and I
(43:25):
was out of the hospital. I was talking to my
dad on the phone and he said, how are you
and Josh? And I said, We're doing okay. You know,
I don't know how to answer that because we just
went through something terrible. And he said, look, I just
want to. I want to say, you know, things like
this can can sometimes bring a marriage closer, and sometimes
they tear a marriage apart. And I said at that point,
(43:49):
you know, so far it's only brought us closer, like
we were doing okay, the two of us are doing okay.
But then over the past two years, like it really
has brought us so much closer. Every decision that we've made,
we've agreed on. We haven't done anything that the other
one hasn't been comfortable with. We have really been lockstep.
We really really are a team. So we bring we
(44:12):
bring each other a lot of joy, and our families
do as well. We have two dogs that are I
can't believe they're so quietly, peacefully sleeping right next to
you right now, but they bring us joy. And you know,
just in the rare days that we're home together and
we're not traveling, just living living life, grilling out and
(44:32):
you know, hanging out watching people.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, it's like it's that sort of proverbial like I
just got to make sure I keep touching.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Grass exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, you got to stay a little bit grounded in
your world. Do you do you think past the election
about what you want to do next or does it
feel like every you know, everything's pointing to go here
and then we'll reassess afterward. I ask, because as we talk,
(45:04):
I'm like, well, are you going to run for office?
Like you what do you think you do with all
of this? But then I'm also reminded that you're doing
so much and that you're so in the fight, and
it may have to I don't know, maybe maybe it's
an outcome that dictates what you do next.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I think yes and no. I think a little bit
of both. I am fully in this fight now and
actually I quit my day job in May so that
I could do this full time, which was a really
good decision. And you know, right now, for the next
fifty days, I am focused on this election and not
just the presidential election. I've been active with the Colin
(45:47):
all Red campaign. He's running for Senate r Read Cruise,
So just helping pretty much any Democrat I can from
now until the election is what I'm focused on. After
the election, Yes, I do think the outcome will probably
dictate a little bit about where I go next. But
I think I'm in this fight now and I don't
(46:07):
see myself getting out of it. So I definitely could
see a future in the political world. Now. I don't
know if that looks like, you know, for maybe my
state party or my county party, or maybe someone else's administration.
Maybe it's running for office. I think all of the
doors are open right now, so we'll just kind of
see what shakes out.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
That's really cool. I think he would be wonderful for
what it's worth. No thanks, And also, yes, go Colin already.
He's just the coolest.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
He's awesome, and he's just like Kamala Harrison that he's
a real person that is so nice and so genuine,
and he just cares about people like he's just a
good person. That's who you want in office, that's what
you want leading the country.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Yeah. Absolutely, people that are willing to show up for
their neighbors. Like, it's not rocket science, right, How can
we myself and all the listeners of this podcast support
you in between now and the election and even after.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
I think, you know, fifty days on the one hand
feels really far away, but it also feels very close.
I think we just have to keep the momentum up.
I really do not want people to become apathetic because
this has been such a charged election and people are tired,
and I get it, but we have to land the
plane and we have to finish the job. And so
(47:28):
continuing to talk about the issues that are important to
Obviously for me, it's reproductive rights, keeping these stories alive,
keeping these conversations going, I think that's going to be critical.
And then also making sure that you vote, you help
other people get to the polls. I think everything we
can do to make sure that we elect pro choice
(47:51):
candidates is critical from now until November. And then, as
I said before, you know, no matter what happens, the
fight won't be over. There will still be work to do,
and so I think, you know, I'm hopeful that we'll
be able to have a quick party, at quick celebration,
but then we're gonna have to get back to work,
and so stay vigilant, stay informed, pay attention, and then
(48:14):
you know, whatever speaks to you, whether it's volunteering, whether
it's donating time more money. I think those are all
things that anyone can.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Do, absolutely, and that's just it. It's it's any extra
bit of engagement, and whether that is, like you said,
having these conversations with your family and friends, signing up
for a shift, phone banking, donating what you can all
of it really does matter, because every single vote matters.
(48:46):
And you know, somebody said something I thought was great.
They were like, look, a vote's not a love letter.
You've got two candidates.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
You've got to vote for one of them. And in reality,
who would you try even if you didn't agree with them,
Who would you trust to be willing to sit with
you and come up with a compromise that works for everybody.
I don't really think there's you know, I don't think
there's a question there. I think there's only one answer.
(49:16):
And it's the sort of thing that I think is
an important reminder because yeah, there's a lot of us
that are fully team Kamala, ready to go. I cannot
wait to see a president Kamala Harris. And I always
want to make space for folks who are coming into
this differently or later than us, and just say, look,
at the end of the day, you don't get to
(49:37):
root for a team that's not in the super Bowl,
Like this is it. This is our super Bowl, and
we've got to make sure that we have leadership that
actually cares to listen to Americans, that actually cares about
the you know, votes in states that will put the
(49:58):
things we vote for on the ballot. I mean, you've
seen this, you know. I'm sure it's something you guys
talk about a lot on the reproductive rights tour. But
there's states where voters have put protection for abortion on
the ballot, and these states are refusing to put those
amendments on the ballots. They're trying to sue in their
state courts not to do it. And it's a literal
(50:21):
refusal to listen to the will of the American people.
And that's not what our elected officials are supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
That's exactly right. Well, and they're trying to ensure that
these measures don't get on the ballot because they know
that they're going to win, because people, every time we
see abortion rights on the ballot, we win, and they
know that, and so they're trying to prevent it from happening,
which is, to your point, completely not how this country
(50:48):
should work.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Yeah, So at the end of the day, I'm like, well,
I think authoritarians have to be shown the door. We
can disagree, and we can debate, and we can really
crunch together on how to get to the best solution
for the most amount of people. But what we can't
do is ignore the will of the American public. It's
just it's a.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
No for me.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yep, that's a hard pass, hard pass exactly.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Well, Amanda, I'm curious. You know, there's there's obviously so
much going on in these fifty days and in the
last two years of you know, work you've been doing
and processing that you've been doing, and of course, as
you said, so much to be done. Even after the election.
We have such a long way to go to restore
protections for people, to pass smart policy even like paid
(51:39):
family leave to take care of families in this country.
But for you, when you kind of pull back and
you know, grill out with your friends, or walk the dog,
or you know whatever, whatever the touch grass might be,
just for yourself, what feels like your work in progress
right now?
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Oh? I am just a constant work in progress. I
think you know. Something that Josh and I are still
working on is building a family. And as I mentioned,
we're we're not going to be able to do that
probably just by chance. We're gonna have to put a
(52:21):
lot of work into that. But it's something that we're
moving forward with and you know, we're really really hopeful.
We've we've had a lot of bad news in the
last two years, but we've also had some good news.
So we're hopeful that one way or another, we'll still
be able to grow our family.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Yeah. Well, I will definitely keep my you know, my
fingers and toes crossed for you guys. I really, I
really hope that on the other side of a lot
of heartache there's a lot of joy.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yeah, of course. And by the way, speaking of being
a constant work in progress, I'm like, join the club's sister.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Aren't we all though?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
I think well, I think who we are. I really
think we are.
Speaker 4 (53:03):
Well.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
I just can't thank you enough for taking the time today.
It really means the world. And I know that it's
not easy to continue to have to share your story,
but you are absolutely changing hearts and minds, and you're
doing such a service to people who might not have
otherwise understood the reality of what these bills look like
(53:26):
and what they do to people, to families, And so
I just want to add my voice to the probable
cacophony of thanks that you hear out in the world.
You absolutely deserve all of the gratitude.
Speaker 2 (53:42):
Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And
you know, like I said, I really appreciate you and
everyone in this community for all the hard work that
we're doing, and folks like you that can use your
platform for something like this is really hard. Means so
honored to stand with you and buy you and I'm
just so grateful to be part of this.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
Likewise, it is an honor
Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello,
smart and dedicated and wonderful friends of Work in Progress.
(00:20):
Today we are joined by a personal hero of mine.
Amanda Zarowski is a woman who lives in Texas. You
have probably heard of her. Her water broke two days
before the extreme Trump abortion band fell in Texas. She
was eighteen weeks pregnant and devastated to find out that
(00:43):
her fetus had absolutely no chance of surviving. And despite
knowing this, doctors in Texas were too scared to give
her the care that she needed to save her life,
and Amanda went into septic shock, not once, but twice.
She is left with a permanently closed fallopian tube due
to scar tissue. She suffered unbelievable loss and then unbelievable
(01:08):
pain on top of it. Her and her husband are
still hoping to start a family, but they have turned
this pain and this honestly assault of women that has
come from these Trump abortion bands into incredible and breathtaking purpose.
Amanda is one of the plaintiffs who sued the state
(01:29):
of Texas for denying her necessary medical care, and she
has been fighting for women and pregnant people around the country.
Ever since, she has been able to show that this
idea that doctors are supposed to make quote good faith
judgments without protection at the risk of being jailed, does
not go far enough to actually protect the lives of women.
(01:52):
Amanda is a personal hero of mine. She has become
an incredible advocate in our fight for equality, and she
even took the stage at the DNC along with former
Presidents and first Ladies and Vice President Kamala Harris to
stand with her husband Josh and tell their story. I'd
(02:12):
also like to add a trigger warning to this episode.
We do discuss miscarriage and pregnancy loss, and if it
feels overwhelming to you, this might be a good time
to sit this one out. We will make sure that
we have links to resources, to places where you can
get involved, volunteer, and even donate in the Instagram stories
(02:36):
for this episode, so if you don't think you can
handle listening to it, you can still get involved. I'm
incredibly thrilled that Amanda is taking time from her schedule
campaigning all around the country and advocating for us to
sit down and have this conversation today. I hope you
enjoy it too. Hi there, Hey, Amanda how are you good?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I'm good, gosh, I mean, first and foremost, really, I
just want to say thank you. I can't imagine that
going through what you went through and then being thrust
onto the national stage has been easy. But I know
for myself and so many women that I speak to
about your case, about you know, the DNC, about all
(03:33):
of it, that we just are so tremendously grateful for you.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Well, thank you. I really appreciate you saying that it's
not easy, but it's been really healing, I think to
be able to channel such horror into something that hopefully
is going to change for some good. Yeah. But no,
I appreciate you saying that, I really do it goes
a long way, because some days are hard.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah. Well, and listen, any woman who is willing to
stand up for political progress, I know, takes a lot
of heat out in the world. So I do think
when we get to be together and just say hey,
I see you and really value you, it can help
the sort of relentless experience of essentially getting you know,
(04:18):
punched in the back of the head every time you walk,
you know, get on the internet.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, well, I really appreciate that and you know, I
just want to say, folks like you that use your
platform to do something good is just so heartworring and
you know, not something I think we saw for a
really long time. And so I'm really really grateful for
folks like you that lean in and are bringing attention
to things like this.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well, I'm sure glad to be in the fight with you.
And it's not lost on me that it's a bit
of a It gives me a little bit of whiplash
to say, you know, I wish we didn't live in
a world where women had to relive their trauma to
make progress or you know, for us to be treated
as people, And yeah, I know we do. And so
(05:01):
the irony of having to say that and then say,
for any of my listeners who don't know your story,
could you give me an overview of your story, I'm like,
I hate this and thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
It's okay, I know, I know it's it's it's been
really Actually, I think good to talk about us so much,
because I think it helped me process a lot faster
than really otherwise. Yeah, my therapist and I talk about
it a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Oh wow, Okay, Well I'm I'm really I'm really glad
to hear that that there's that there's kind of a
progressive nature to it for you personally as well.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, yeah, sure, I mean it. It took a while,
and I was in a pretty rough spot for a while,
but we're here now, so okay.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well, for the you know, for the listeners who are
tuned in with us, Amanda's story is incredibly you know,
unique and also unfortunately not unique at all, given what
Donald Trump and the GOP has been working to and
then managed to succeed with nominating three judges to the
Supreme Court for the explicit purpose of overturning our protections
(06:10):
to healthcare through O v. Wade and the Trump abortion
bands that fell all over the country have affected so
many of us. I mean, for our folks at home.
One in three women today lives in a state where
she cannot access the health care that she needs. And
we are a podcast where facts are facts and there
(06:34):
are no alternative ones, and I want to be very
clear that abortion is healthcare, and Amanda, your story is
I think particularly heart wrenching for so many of us
because you do live in a state where your rights
changed essentially overnight. You were denied life saving care in
(06:54):
Texas because their abortion ban meant that when you lost
to pregnancy, you were not able to have the procedure
you needed to save your at risk life as immediately
as you needed to have it. Can you walk folks
through what happened and why you were denied care at
(07:17):
that stage.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah, so you are exactly right that my story is horrific,
but unfortunately is becoming more and more common the longer
that these bands are in place, And in my state
of Texas, there's almost a complete abortion ban that went
into effect as a matter of fact, two days after
my water broke. So this was twenty twenty two, and
(07:41):
I was pregnant with a baby that my husband and
I wanted so so much. We tried for about eighteen
months before we were finally able to get pregnant, and
I made it to about eighteen weeks and unfortunately suffered
complications where we learned there was no way that we
could safely reverse course, and so our doctors told us
(08:03):
we were with one hundred percent certainty going to lose
the baby. Now, that in and of itself, was the
most horrific, awful news, of course, that anyone could ever
ever imagine but then on top of that, you know,
this was my first pregnancy, And I said, okay, so
what happens next? What do we do? And my doctor said, unfortunately,
(08:24):
I can't do anything because terminating the pregnancy, even though
the baby won't survive, terminating the pregnancy would be considered
an abortion, which is now illegal, and she would be
at risk of losing her license or even going to
jail if she terminated the pregnancy. So I had to
wait until either the baby's heart stopped or I met
(08:47):
the medical exception in Texas, which is life of the mother.
So essentially I was locked in this hell of will
a baby's heart stop or will I deteriorate the brink
of death first? So we're waiting for one of these
terrible outcomes. What happened was I went first, So I
three days later went into septic shock and nearly died,
(09:11):
and my doctor had to stabilize me enough to deliver
the baby. But then I went into septic shock again
and ended up spending a total of three days in
the ICU and a week in the hospital.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh my god, and I want to I don't know
if the appropriate thing is to say, you know, I'm
about to say something very technical and also upsetting to
folks listening. I don't know if the appropriate words to
use or trigger warning, but to be clear, when a
woman like Amanda, or like I would imagine many of
(09:44):
you unfortunately have if you look at the data of
how often women experience miscarriages and pregnancy loss complications, even
fetal anomalies. The position you were put in because there
was still connectivity from your body to the fetus, there
was still electrical pulsing happening between the two of you,
(10:06):
this baby that you wanted so badly, that you knew
was not going to survive, for you to be put
in a position where, rather than giving you the DNC,
you needed to preserve your life to also preserve, let's
be medically frank, the health of your uterus for future pregnancies.
You were put in a position where doctors had to
(10:27):
look at you and essentially say, we're going to have
to let this fetus die on its own and begin
to decay in your body and we'll see what happens.
It is the most barbaric, horrific thing I have ever
heard of. And to know that you went through this
(10:48):
and we're basically told to wait, and then nearly died,
not once, but twice. I cannot fathom how any any
leader of any party could claim to be pro child,
pro family, pro anything other than control and do this
to people, do this to women, do this to families.
(11:09):
And in the days between you so graciously confirming that
you would come and have this conversation with me, and
the day that we sit here recording. Just today, Pro
Publica published news about another young mother, Amber Nicole Thurman,
who was also denied the DNC that she needed to
(11:33):
because her body had not expelled fetal tissue in Georgia,
and she was begging the doctors to consider the life
of her six year old son and what would happen
to him if she died, And they made her wait
until she went into sepsis and then operated on her
after twenty hours in the emergency room, and she did die.
(11:54):
We are literally killing women in America to earn some
sort of place political points, and I can't really fathom
how that's pro life. I also can't fathom how a
party that would do this to women and also vote
to take away the child tax credit from parents could
(12:16):
claim to be pro life. Yet here we are. You
went through such a trauma. How how did you then
decide to say, Okay, my plan is to take legal
action against the state of Texas. Was it in the
(12:37):
personal experience of asking these same sorts of questions, or
was it because you heard about how many other women
it was happening to in your home state at the
same time, or both.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That's a good question. So from a timing perspective, I
was probably one of the first people impacted by this band,
just because, like I said, it went into effect that
same week that I had complications, So I hadn't yet
heard of this happening to other people. But my husband
and I got to talking once I had recovered but
(13:09):
I was still in the hospital. We got to talking
about how insane this was, that this had happened and
that I literally almost died, and we were talking about,
you know, I am the best case scenario here because
I have a job that will let me take time
off work, I have a husband who can get me
to a hospital, we have health insurance, we live close
(13:30):
to a hospital, we don't have other kids that we
have to worry about child care for, and we just
kept thinking, you know, if someone doesn't have one of
those same privileges. It's going to be a lot worse
and people are going to die. And so in talking
about how insane and barbaric this this is and this was,
(13:50):
we were like, we have to do something now. Suing
the Safe Texas wasn't the first thing that came to mind,
because I kN know that you could do I had
a lawyer before. But we decided we were going to
start speaking out because we wanted to warn people. We
wanted people to know this is what's going on. And
so we just got connected to people who were in
(14:12):
this fight, and through some of our early advocacy, people said,
you know, really you should consider taking legal action, and
we were connected to the Center for Reproductive Rights, which
is the organization that represented us in the lawsuit. And
once we met with them and understood what this would
look like and what it would mean, we were like,
(14:33):
all right, this feels like the right decision.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Wow, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's
a word from our sponsors. How did those first initial
meetings go, Because I imagine you're still in the you know,
you're in the fog of loss, You're dealing with grief,
and walking into these rooms you and your husband and
(14:59):
having to talk to all these attorneys and these advocates,
and were they really focused on Texas or were they
also trying to give you a lay of the land
nationally so you all could put this into context. Did
it sort of feel like you signed up for a
law class all of a sudden. Maybe all of the above.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, all of the above. I'll be honest. In the
first meeting, I did not take it seriously at all.
I thought it was kind of crazy that we were
even meeting with these lawyers. Again, I had never had
a lawyer before for anything. I was like, I've never
sued anybody. I was like, what are we doing? Josh
to my husband, like what are we doing? But then
after about five minutes of meeting with our lawyers, they
(15:41):
explained what it would look like, and there was just
something inherently about them that I trusted. And it almost
feels like you know when you go on a really
great first date and you're like, oh, we just click,
or you meet a new friend and you're like, oh,
we just we'd mesh. That's how it felt, even though
it was just via zoom. Turns out my instincts were right,
but they explain to us what was going on across
(16:03):
the country, and the more we talk to them, the
more we realized that, Okay, this really is a win
win situation with this lawsuit, because either we win the
case yay, or we lose the case. But hopefully we
create enough of a splash and enough of awareness that
people are really outraged. And then Texas is clearly showing
(16:27):
us their true colors and they're showing us how much
they don't care about pregnant people. Hopefully that will get
people really upset and they'll start changing hearts and minds.
Maybe we'll even change some votes. And then the farther
it went along, we realized, Okay, actually, what we might
be doing here is giving courage and a voice to
other people, not just in Texas but in other states
(16:48):
who might also want to take legal action. And so
it just kept growing and growing and growing along the way.
But every step along the way you were like, Yeah,
this is going to change things no matter what happens,
we think that we can have a positive outcome from
this exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And is it ever sort of overwhelming to feel like
you are now one of the public faces of the
fight for reproductive rights in the nation? Or has continuing
to you know, take every step as it comes and
continue moving your way up this fight. Do you kind
(17:27):
of feel like you've built a team and you're not
doing this alone?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Again, Yes to all the above. It can definitely be overwhelming. Sometimes.
I also sometimes get imposter syndrome because I recognize that, like,
I am very new to this fight relatively speaking, and
there are people who have literally been fighting for fifty years,
and so I just want to call attention to that.
(17:53):
You know that people have been doing this work on
all scales, on all fronts for a really long time. Now,
I do feel like I've joined this club where I've
joined this team, and it's a really deep bench and
these people are really, really incredible who are doing this work.
And you know, the way that I've got to it
through loss is not how I ever would have chosen
(18:15):
to get here. But now that I'm here, I'm really
glad to be a part of this team because it's
a community, it's a family, and it's actually really beautiful
and it really stinks that all of my new friends
live all across the country, but it also, you know,
gives me a reason to travel and visit with these
folks and continue this work together.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah. Well, one of the things I think is pretty
impactful about you know, this reckoning that so many people
are having with how you can't really say, oh, I
don't do politics, because our entire life exists because of
politics and policies, from the roads we drive on to
(18:55):
the healthcare we have access to, you know, whether or
not we have clean water that come out of the
faucets in our homes. See these things that I think
for a long time a lot of people thought, well,
the adults deal with that somewhere else, and that's not
really for me. And it's really kind of a shock
to the system when you realize, oh, if not me,
(19:16):
then who. But I think it's also, if I may
really important when folks like yourself show up in this way. Yes,
you never would have chosen to wind up on this
team going through the loss you went through, but you
(19:36):
also are relatable to so many of the women in
the country in ways that some of the folks who've
been doing this for decades aren't. Because there are other
people who will say, well, I don't know that, I'm
not sure I know enough about that. Maybe it's not
appropriate for me to have an opinion, and we really
need everybody. We need everybody to say no, I'm pretty
(19:57):
sure not killing you know, women, not denying healthcare to
pregnant people, that should just that should just be whether
you're new to the fight or you've been in it
from the beginning. And I think our different types and
timelines of experience are so valuable in that way. So
I don't know, I would never look at you and
(20:21):
everything that you have done in the last two years
and like think you are an impost of any sort.
I think you are such a hero. I think you're
incredibly brave. I think you have figured out one of
perhaps the most impactful ways in our generation to turn
pain into purpose and to inspire other people to do
the same. And I A, yeah, I'm just really grateful
(20:44):
for all of it.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Well, I really appreciate you saying that, And I think
I think you really hit on something that I like
to talk about, which is that you know, for a
long time, I think people have felt like, oh, there's
nothing I can do. Politics is this big machine, my
vote doesn't really count, you know, all of those types
of things. But I think we're seeing that's just really
not the case.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
And one person's voice can have a huge impact, whether
it's you know, just the conversations that you're having around
your own kitchen table or in your own communities.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Like those are the conversations that change people's hearts and
minds and ultimately their votes, because we know that folks
need to see real people attached to these issues, whether
it's you or someone you know or someone you saw
in the news. That's how we move the needle. And
so I hope and I do believe that people are
starting to realize, especially with this election season, that their
(21:40):
voice really can make a difference and it is important
to get involved.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
It's critical, yeah, it is, and I think especially when
you start to realize that no matter how big the
system seems, it's just made up of each of us
as people. You know, we all know about. Speaking of Georgia,
the you know scandal, the attempt overturning the election, the
begging to find just eleven eight hundred votes. We're a
(22:05):
country of three hundred and thirty two million people. And
when you realize what the election can come down to
and the effect that who is in charge can have
on who gets to live, I mean literally who gets
to live, Who gets to survive. It's it's hopefully this
(22:25):
sort of aha moment that will, like you said, get
a lot more people involved. I'm curious for you because
you talk about, you know, your timeline, the relative newness
of this kind of advocacy for you, and you know,
now you're out on the campaign trail with the Vice
President of the United States.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah. I know.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
I've been lucky enough, you know, as a Californian to
have her hold so many elected offices in my state,
and I've seen her advocacy for women and for the
LGBTQ community and for you know, safety and unity and
reform and all these things for so long, and it
was so cool for me to see her be elected
(23:08):
as the VP. It's it's such a personal battle for
someone of an office of that level in a way
we've never seen before. You know, She's the first president
or vice president I ever even visit a reproductive care clinic.
And I guess I'm just wondering, because she can seem
so much larger than life. What is it like for
(23:29):
you just to sit, you know, two women and have
conversations about what this fight looks like, and especially her perspective,
you know, being a leader for so long? Is it
sort of surreal? Is it way more normal than.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
You would expect?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Is it again all of the above. I have no
idea how this podcast has turned into a multiple choice quiz,
by the way, but.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Here we are. I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I've never done this before, but I guess it's all
the things I.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Think you must know to be a teacher. And I
love multiple choice question perfect. No, it's great, but yeah
it is. It's surreal that it stopped being surreal, you
know what I mean. Like after the fourth or fifth
time that I got to spend time with her, I
was like, oh, now it's not so weird when I
(24:19):
see her. Not that we're like gallpals, you know, hanging
out on the weekends, but I have been very, very
fortunate to spend a decent amount of time with her,
and I love the opportunity to talk about her as
a person because she is so genuine and personable and kind.
And I think we saw that you talked about this
(24:40):
after the DNC. She just brings this joy in this
energy and it's like just mind blowing that she has
been such a breath of fresh air and I want
to I want to tell you two stories. One is
I had been out on the trail and it had
been a particularly grueling schedule and I was home for
(25:02):
like twenty four hours, and being out on the trail
can be tough. It's not glamorous. It's a lot of work.
And I think she must have known what that's like.
And so I was out taking my dog for a
walk and I get a call that says, what does
it say when it's not blocked, unidentifiable or whatever? I
identified caller. I don't know why I answered this call
(25:25):
that is so unlike me, but for some reason I
answered it. I said, Hi, this is Amanda, and on
the other end, I hear Amanda, It's Kamala Harris. And
I was what she just called to check in and say,
you know, we know that you're out on the trail
and you're working hard, and thank you, and I mean,
we had this five minute conversation and she was just
(25:46):
a real person that cares about other people, and she
takes this very very personally. The other thing I want
to tell you is I was very lucky that I
got to take my childhood best friend Mollie with me
to an event at the White house where I was
introducing the Vice President, and as part of this, we
got to spend some time with vice president and my
(26:09):
friend Molly was just beside herself and she was very nervous.
And when we walked into the Vice President's office, Kamala
Harris says, hi Amanda from across the room, and my
best friend just screamed because she couldn't contain her excitement.
And then when we got up to see the Vice president,
it's a long walk because it's a big office, Molly
(26:31):
just started flat out crying.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
I'm just falling, just falling, and Pamala just gives her,
you know, this big hug and shakes her hand and says,
you know these beautiful things about how our girlfriends are
our chosen sisters, they're our chosen.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Family, and she said, I know how much you're supporting
Amanda and everything she's doing. And she's just such a
real compassionate, relatable person. I mean, she's just she's in incredible.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a
few words from our favorite sponsors. It's something I'm so
grateful like you to have seen up close. And the
thing I always like to say to people when they
ask me about her is I'm like, listen, she's the same.
(27:22):
She could be on the national stage talking about what
families deserve and what works and you know, all the
work they're doing and give this incredible speech where you
could be one on one in her office or you know,
on the side of some event and she'll just check
in and ask how you're doing. She is the same,
whether there are you know, a fleet of cameras pointed
(27:45):
at her or no cameras in the room. And it's
so special to see. We know that the other candidate
isn't like that. You know, he gets caught on camera
calling womenches and talking about sexually assaulting them, and you know,
bragging about Project twenty twenty five and how they're going
to take over America and never have to vote ever again.
(28:08):
And I'm like, how is this even a race? How
is this even allowed? You know, You've got this person
who will call a woman who went through an unspeakable
tragedy because of the opponent's policies, because of a Trump
abortion band, and she'll just call you when you're walking
your dog to check in on you. And this guy
(28:28):
is like out trying to figure out how to deconstruct
America and sell off the country for parts to like
the highest bidders in foreign autocracies. And I'm like, what,
what is this conversation we're having exactly about? Like who's
more fit to lead the country?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I know? Well, and just take a look at who
they pick for their running mate. Right, You've got the
guy from Ohio whose name I don't even want to say,
spreading vicious lies and rumors which are insite, and so.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Much hate against his own constituents, by the way, a
lot of threats, and know it's the people he's elected
to represent. It's such a dereliction of duty. Yeah, And
it's the same I feel the same about watching that
happen in Ohio as I feel about what you've gone
through and what so many other women have gone through.
I'm like, you're literally willing to get people killed, yeah,
(29:19):
to what to incite the worst people in our country
to do the worst things to other humans. That's what
you're willing to do to win. You're that power hungry.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I know. Meanwhile, you've got Tim Walls showing up to
a state fair, rolling up his sleeves, passing out corn
dogs and ice cream like a man of the people,
cares about his people, wants to take care of people.
I just I mean, I agree with you. I can't
let myself go down this rabbit hole too much because
it's frightening. But how are we here? Like, how is
(29:51):
this even a race? I don't understand. There is no
choice to me, it's so obvious.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Well it feels like that, right, It's like sometimes I
look around everybody taking crazy pills, like where are what's
here happening? But you know, I'm really curious, particularly for you.
You know, people will ask me because there's this like
big misnomer, right that you do what I do for
a living, and you're some crazy elitist And I'm like
sold on. The billionaire from Reality TV with a plane
(30:19):
convinced everyone else that the rest of us, who like
only have healthcare because we're union workers, are like somehow
the elite ones like what's going on? But you know,
I I think I feel so passionately about this because
I've had the good fortune of living all over this
country for work. I spent ten years in North Carolina.
I've lived in Texas, I've lived in New York, I've
(30:40):
lived in California. I've lived in New Mexico. Like I
I feel lucky to know people like you're talking about
through your advocacy, and I know people in so many
parts of this country and so many parts of the
world also through this work. And what I know about
us is that we mostly have the same goals, Like
we'd want our families to be safe, if we want
(31:01):
education to be good, I'd prefer to drive on roads
without potholes, and then the other way around, like kind
of basic you know, healthcare access would be great. I'm
really wondering for you as a woman living in Texas now,
you know, you are just statistically more surrounded by right
(31:25):
wing leaning women or women who vote that way anyway
than I am. You know, today when we're speaking, I
happen to be in New York, although it's getting to
be more of a toss up here, which is a
stressful conversation for another day. But like, what's your experience
in terms of the conversations you have in your hometown
(31:48):
and your home state. Do you think it's changing now
that people understand the real impacts of those judges and
what they've done. Does it still feel like an uphill battle?
Speaker 2 (32:00):
I mean, I think I think it's still going to
be a lot of work. I think we're still going
to have to fight pretty hard. But I can tell
you that I have had firsthand experiences not only in Texas,
where I live now, but also in Indiana, which is
where I'm from originally. That's where I grew up in
very similar political landscape. Conversations like the one you and
(32:23):
I are having, and like the ones we're having all
the time, are moving the needle. And like I said earlier,
it's these personal stories and putting a name in a
face to these issues that I think is what's going
to change people's opinions. And I mean, just look at
you know how often we hear the word abortion now
on mainstream news at the n C right a main
(32:44):
pillar of the entire convention. I think things are changing,
and they're changing rapidly. But we are going to have
to put in the work, and we are going to
have to realize, you know, obviously we want a Harris
Wall administration, but when they get elected, the work will
not be over. We will still have a fight to
(33:06):
suit up for. But I think people, I mean, we
know statistically, we know the data that most people don't
support these extreme abortion bands, and so I think that's
become very clear, and it's because of the conversations that
we're having in our own communities.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, and I think people starting to understand the facts.
You know, I believe it's ninety three percent of abortions
happened in the first twenty weeks. You know, it's it's
early stage experiences that make up most of that type
of healthcare. And you know, I was really heartened to
(33:49):
hear I have been really heartened to hear that more people,
whether it's you know, Secretary Buddhachedge doing what he does
best on Fox News, or even the conversations that we
were seeing in the debate, people saying, listen, someone who
has to have a late stage abortion isn't having it
because they want to. It's not a you know, decision
(34:12):
made on a whim. It's because of a fetal anomaly.
It's because of devastating medical news. And I think that
might actually be what makes these insane lies from Donald
Trump more insulting to me. You know, he has this
extreme rhetoric and he says, you know, abortions are happening
in the ninth month and babies are being executed after birth,
(34:35):
and I'm very glad. Lindsay Davis said, in no state
is that legal infanticide is not a thing anyone has
legalized ever anywhere. It's insane that a presidential candidate would
say that, But.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
I feel bothered as a woman who has friends and
you know, acquaintances in the fight like yourself, who've experienced
pregnancy loss hearing a presidential candidate say that, you know,
people are just having these abortions this late essentially for fun,
(35:08):
because it's not true, and it's it so flies in
the face of the work and the hopes and dreams
of families that are trying to start or expand their families.
What is your reaction, you know, two years into this
journey that you are on as an advocate, what does
(35:30):
it feel like for you to sit and watch him
make those claims from the debate stage.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
It's so infuriating. I think prior to my experience, I
would have maybe scoffed and said something like, oh my gosh,
that's ridiculous. No one does that. But I agree with you.
It feels very personal now and it's just so disgusting
to me that he would make up these lies just
(35:55):
to I don't know why. I don't even know what
his purpose is, what he thinks he's accomplishing that, because
it's just simply not true, but it is. It does
feel like a personal attack. And also the fact that
he refuses to acknowledge that the bands that are allowed
to be in place today as a result of him
(36:15):
and his administration are having other impacts too that are
really really horrible that are also personal to me. For example,
I now have to use IVF to have children because
of what I went through. And so when Alabama and
the Supreme Court they're ruled, you know the way that
it did that halted IVF services, I just I was
(36:38):
so furious, and I'm like, they just want to make
it all about control, like you said, like when we
need an abortion, we can't get one. When we want
to have children, we can't have them. And it's just
so infuriating because it is all about control and it's
just so backwards and it's just disgusting. Oh, it makes
me so mad.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Yeah, And I mean, having been through a long and
exhaustive journey with fertility myself, I think about the amount
of time and the resources and the trauma and the
emotional exhaustion and the sort of reckoning that so many
people who go through whatever their unique experience with fertility
(37:23):
and fertility treatments look like. And the fact that, as
you said, because of the side effects of your being
forced into sepsis to get the care you needed, you
now have to rely on fertility medicine to start a family.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
It's like.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
They want to withhold your future from you, regardless of
how much work you're willing to put in for it.
But if God forbid, you have a medical emergency or
you were caught by surprise at a time when you
simply are incapable in your life, you need to make
the right decision for you. Yep, they don't want you
(38:03):
to be able to do that either.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
And I think the thing that stings the most for
me is that these decisions are being made by people
that have no experience or knowledge of what they're talking about.
They have not gone through this, they haven't experienced it
yet they feel that they have any sort of leg
to stand on that they can tell us what to do,
(38:27):
even though they've never been through it themselves. They have
no awareness, no knowledge. That to me, I think is
the worst part.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yeah, it was very surprising when, you know, when the
GOP started voting against protecting IVF and you started hearing
all these elected men from that party saying, you know, well,
we're just trying to make sure people can have babies,
and it's like, do you know what IVF is?
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Exactly? Do you? Oh? Do you?
Speaker 1 (38:52):
And you realize there's a reason politicians shouldn't have an
opinion and pass these sorts of laws that change our
acts to medical care because they're not doctors. I know
it can feel incredibly heavy, and I know a lot
of it is doom and gloom, and I don't want
to act as though it's not as serious as it sounds,
(39:13):
because it is. And yet I also know that we're
all in this fight because we believe there's a way
out of the darkness. We believe there's a way forward together.
And I'm really curious what you want to share with
people in terms of what makes you hopeful or what
(39:34):
you think they should be paying attention to, because at
this point you are on the campaign trail, you are
sitting with so many experts, whether legal or medical, or
you know, in the political sphere, and I wonder what
it is that makes you feel like you can keep
doing this.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I love that question. And honestly, it's the people that
I meet while I'm out on the trail, while I'm advocating,
while I'm listening. It is the people that I meet.
It's the people who are fighting in their own communities.
It's the people who are providing abortions where they can
in their own communities. It's the people who are shepherding
(40:12):
patients as they make this really really difficult decision and
take action. And also, I can't believe I'm saying this,
but it's the politicians too. I have met so many
wonderful people who who are serving our country and they
are really fighting for us, and as ugly as the
(40:34):
other side can be, it really brings me a lot
of peace to know that there are so many people
that are looking out for us and that are trying
to protect us and to protect our country. You know,
all the way from my own city council up to
Kamala Harris, I mean, there are really really wonderful people
that are working for us. And you know, the more
(40:56):
that I travel, the more people I meet, the more
I realized that at their most people are really good
and even though this is really hard. I like to
say that it takes it out of me. It puts
me to bed at night, but it also gets mad
out of bed in the morning.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, right, It's like the thing that
makes you so mad you could just burst into a
ball of flames. It's also that fire that like it
becomes the campfire, you know, the fuel that keeps you moving.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it would be a lot easier
to not be doing this, but you know, I just
feel such such a passion and such a purpose. And
I also feel like, Okay, we've made it this far.
How could I not keep going? How could I not
continue in this fight? Now that I know what I know,
I can't stop. I won't stop.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
That's really cool. I really appreciate that. And now for
our sponsors, what brings you all joy? I mean, I
know it's very heads down, it's very policy focused. You know,
we and I say this with no hyperbole to our
(42:10):
friends listening at home. You know, this really is The
elections have ratcheted up, right, They've gotten more and more consequential,
But like this is the one we either we either
protect this country for everyone or we lose it to
Project twenty twenty five, and it's over for most of us.
And I think people don't understand how bad it can get.
(42:31):
So I don't want to make light of it, but
I also want to honor the person that you are
and your whole, big, beautiful life and you know, your
joy and your career and your marriage and all of it.
And so what's bringing you happiness? What is refilling your cup?
(42:53):
You know for Amanda, and then what's doing that even
in your house like for you and your husband? Is
you navigate all of this? What's bringing me all joy?
How are you staying sane?
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I appreciate that question. Some days are harder than others. Definitely, Definitely,
our people right our circle, my family and friends have
been so so so supportive, which has been I think
the only reason that we can continue to do this,
and especially at this pace. It's been really remarkable. I
remember very shortly after we lost the baby and I
(43:25):
was out of the hospital. I was talking to my
dad on the phone and he said, how are you
and Josh? And I said, We're doing okay. You know,
I don't know how to answer that because we just
went through something terrible. And he said, look, I just
want to. I want to say, you know, things like
this can can sometimes bring a marriage closer, and sometimes
they tear a marriage apart. And I said at that point,
(43:49):
you know, so far it's only brought us closer, like
we were doing okay, the two of us are doing okay.
But then over the past two years, like it really
has brought us so much closer. Every decision that we've made,
we've agreed on. We haven't done anything that the other
one hasn't been comfortable with. We have really been lockstep.
We really really are a team. So we bring we
(44:12):
bring each other a lot of joy, and our families
do as well. We have two dogs that are I
can't believe they're so quietly, peacefully sleeping right next to
you right now, but they bring us joy. And you know,
just in the rare days that we're home together and
we're not traveling, just living living life, grilling out and
(44:32):
you know, hanging out watching people.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, it's like it's that sort of proverbial like I
just got to make sure I keep touching.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Grass exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, you got to stay a little bit grounded in
your world. Do you do you think past the election
about what you want to do next or does it
feel like every you know, everything's pointing to go here
and then we'll reassess afterward. I ask, because as we talk,
(45:04):
I'm like, well, are you going to run for office?
Like you what do you think you do with all
of this? But then I'm also reminded that you're doing
so much and that you're so in the fight, and
it may have to I don't know, maybe maybe it's
an outcome that dictates what you do next.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
I think yes and no. I think a little bit
of both. I am fully in this fight now and
actually I quit my day job in May so that
I could do this full time, which was a really
good decision. And you know, right now, for the next
fifty days, I am focused on this election and not
just the presidential election. I've been active with the Colin
(45:47):
all Red campaign. He's running for Senate r Read Cruise,
So just helping pretty much any Democrat I can from
now until the election is what I'm focused on. After
the election, Yes, I do think the outcome will probably
dictate a little bit about where I go next. But
I think I'm in this fight now and I don't
(46:07):
see myself getting out of it. So I definitely could
see a future in the political world. Now. I don't
know if that looks like, you know, for maybe my
state party or my county party, or maybe someone else's administration.
Maybe it's running for office. I think all of the
doors are open right now, so we'll just kind of
see what shakes out.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
That's really cool. I think he would be wonderful for
what it's worth. No thanks, And also, yes, go Colin already.
He's just the coolest.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
He's awesome, and he's just like Kamala Harrison that he's
a real person that is so nice and so genuine,
and he just cares about people like he's just a
good person. That's who you want in office, that's what
you want leading the country.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Yeah. Absolutely, people that are willing to show up for
their neighbors. Like, it's not rocket science, right, How can
we myself and all the listeners of this podcast support
you in between now and the election and even after.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
I think, you know, fifty days on the one hand
feels really far away, but it also feels very close.
I think we just have to keep the momentum up.
I really do not want people to become apathetic because
this has been such a charged election and people are tired,
and I get it, but we have to land the
plane and we have to finish the job. And so
(47:28):
continuing to talk about the issues that are important to
Obviously for me, it's reproductive rights, keeping these stories alive,
keeping these conversations going, I think that's going to be critical.
And then also making sure that you vote, you help
other people get to the polls. I think everything we
can do to make sure that we elect pro choice
(47:51):
candidates is critical from now until November. And then, as
I said before, you know, no matter what happens, the
fight won't be over. There will still be work to do,
and so I think, you know, I'm hopeful that we'll
be able to have a quick party, at quick celebration,
but then we're gonna have to get back to work,
and so stay vigilant, stay informed, pay attention, and then
(48:14):
you know, whatever speaks to you, whether it's volunteering, whether
it's donating time more money. I think those are all
things that anyone can.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Do, absolutely, and that's just it. It's it's any extra
bit of engagement, and whether that is, like you said,
having these conversations with your family and friends, signing up
for a shift, phone banking, donating what you can all
of it really does matter, because every single vote matters.
(48:46):
And you know, somebody said something I thought was great.
They were like, look, a vote's not a love letter.
You've got two candidates.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
You've got to vote for one of them. And in reality,
who would you try even if you didn't agree with them,
Who would you trust to be willing to sit with
you and come up with a compromise that works for everybody.
I don't really think there's you know, I don't think
there's a question there. I think there's only one answer.
(49:16):
And it's the sort of thing that I think is
an important reminder because yeah, there's a lot of us
that are fully team Kamala, ready to go. I cannot
wait to see a president Kamala Harris. And I always
want to make space for folks who are coming into
this differently or later than us, and just say, look,
at the end of the day, you don't get to
(49:37):
root for a team that's not in the super Bowl,
Like this is it. This is our super Bowl, and
we've got to make sure that we have leadership that
actually cares to listen to Americans, that actually cares about
the you know, votes in states that will put the
(49:58):
things we vote for on the ballot. I mean, you've
seen this, you know. I'm sure it's something you guys
talk about a lot on the reproductive rights tour. But
there's states where voters have put protection for abortion on
the ballot, and these states are refusing to put those
amendments on the ballots. They're trying to sue in their
state courts not to do it. And it's a literal
(50:21):
refusal to listen to the will of the American people.
And that's not what our elected officials are supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
That's exactly right. Well, and they're trying to ensure that
these measures don't get on the ballot because they know
that they're going to win, because people, every time we
see abortion rights on the ballot, we win, and they
know that, and so they're trying to prevent it from happening,
which is, to your point, completely not how this country
(50:48):
should work.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Yeah, So at the end of the day, I'm like, well,
I think authoritarians have to be shown the door. We
can disagree, and we can debate, and we can really
crunch together on how to get to the best solution
for the most amount of people. But what we can't
do is ignore the will of the American public. It's
just it's a.
Speaker 4 (51:09):
No for me.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yep, that's a hard pass, hard pass exactly.
Speaker 1 (51:14):
Well, Amanda, I'm curious. You know, there's there's obviously so
much going on in these fifty days and in the
last two years of you know, work you've been doing
and processing that you've been doing, and of course, as
you said, so much to be done. Even after the election.
We have such a long way to go to restore
protections for people, to pass smart policy even like paid
(51:39):
family leave to take care of families in this country.
But for you, when you kind of pull back and
you know, grill out with your friends, or walk the dog,
or you know whatever, whatever the touch grass might be,
just for yourself, what feels like your work in progress
right now?
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Oh? I am just a constant work in progress. I
think you know. Something that Josh and I are still
working on is building a family. And as I mentioned,
we're we're not going to be able to do that
probably just by chance. We're gonna have to put a
(52:21):
lot of work into that. But it's something that we're
moving forward with and you know, we're really really hopeful.
We've we've had a lot of bad news in the
last two years, but we've also had some good news.
So we're hopeful that one way or another, we'll still
be able to grow our family.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Yeah. Well, I will definitely keep my you know, my
fingers and toes crossed for you guys. I really, I
really hope that on the other side of a lot
of heartache there's a lot of joy.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yeah, of course. And by the way, speaking of being
a constant work in progress, I'm like, join the club's sister.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Aren't we all though?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
I think well, I think who we are. I really
think we are.
Speaker 4 (53:03):
Well.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
I just can't thank you enough for taking the time today.
It really means the world. And I know that it's
not easy to continue to have to share your story,
but you are absolutely changing hearts and minds, and you're
doing such a service to people who might not have
otherwise understood the reality of what these bills look like
(53:26):
and what they do to people, to families, And so
I just want to add my voice to the probable
cacophony of thanks that you hear out in the world.
You absolutely deserve all of the gratitude.
Speaker 2 (53:42):
Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. And
you know, like I said, I really appreciate you and
everyone in this community for all the hard work that
we're doing, and folks like you that can use your
platform for something like this is really hard. Means so
honored to stand with you and buy you and I'm
just so grateful to be part of this.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
Likewise, it is an honor
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