July 24, 2025 • 49 mins
Breakout star of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, Bozoma Saint John joins Sophia at the Create and Cultivate Festival to share all the juicy details about trying to convince Sophia to join RHOBH! Is there a chance Sophia would take Boz's offer seriously?
Then, Sophia turns the tables and digs into why Boz is not your typical 'housewife'. Plus, parenting cheat codes you need to know and the secret to slaying in the boardroom and in life!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
We're about to witness a live podcast recording of Work
in Progress with Sophia Bush. I know we have some
Sofia Bush fans in the house.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
She is that girl.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
She is an activist, an actress, an entrepreneur, a storyteller.
She stole our hearts in One Tree Hill and since
then she's done what so few have the courage to do.
She used her platform to advocate for social justice, for
women's rights, for civic engagement. Her podcast, Work in Progress
is on my queue every week and she explores the messy,
(00:48):
meaningful journeys of people who inspire her. Okay, we have
a major surprise guest. I'm excited I get to introduce her.
It is Bozama Saint John.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Bosama is the definition of if you want it, go
get it. From Pepsi to Apple, to Uber to Netflix,
she hasn't just shaped.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Brands, She's shaped culture.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay, now she's rewriting the playbook again with her new company,
Eve by Boz. It's a hair care line with products
manufactured entirely in Ghana, where she was born. So because
boz doesn't do anything halfway, the hair is amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Let's welcome these ladies with the energy they deserved.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Sophia Bosh Bosama, Saint.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
John, Hello, hello everyone. We were we were just watching
how wonderful this is and organized, and Jamielle called that
nice woman up to share about her company, and I
looked at Bo's and I was like, see when people
ask me, oh, do you really think things would be
so amazing if the women were in charge? Yes, yes,
(01:52):
it would be like this all the time.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
And then we could also wear sports and middrift showing suits.
You know what I'm saying, you know, because we'd be
in charge. Thank you, I know, yeah, tell somebody, Okay, yeah,
okute guys.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I have to say I'm so excited to be back
here with all of you. I do feel like women
gathering is very important in healing right now. So thank
you for having us, Thank you for coming. And I
have to say I met this amazing woman almost ten
years ago.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
We were at a conference shocker for anyone who knows me.
You you know, I love a nerd event, and I
was so struck by like one of the most powerful
women in business. Also just being so cool. We like,
suddenly there was dinner, there were drinks, things were happening.
(02:48):
We were talking about our lives and I was like,
aren't you like in charge of Netflix, aren't you? I
feel like you're really busy and you manage to do
so much, whether it's business, being the most amazing mom.
I cannot believe your daughter's taller than me. Now this
is really weird. Everything you do, you do is such heart,
(03:09):
and you manage to make people feel like they are
the center of your attention, and your attention is wanted
by everyone. So how'd you do it? Give us the
inside baseball please?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Nice of you and also than ten years. Wow, that's
crazy since we're only twenty five. That's true exactly. We've
been aged today.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
But you know what I think at the center of it,
I really love people.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
And I know that probably sounds corny and maybe you
know what, but I love people.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Now that doesn't mean that I'm an extrovert. You know.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I don't do well like just going into a room
and then walking around and saying hi to everybody that's
not me.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
But I am deeply curious about people.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
It's like I am that person that will be sitting
in the airport and you're hustling about somebody else's conversation.
Now you know, I'm not calling eaveydrop. I'm just calling
you're hustling, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
What I mean. But I'm just curious.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
And I think for me, it's part of why I
do the work that I do, because as a marketer
and as a business person, I have to deeply understand
what's happening in culture, what people are thinking about, what
they love, what they like in order to do my
job well. And that has also gone into my personal
life because I deeply want to understand people's stories and
(04:26):
why they tick the way they tick. And so yes,
when I met you, I'm like, oh, tell me more, Sophia,
you know, and I'm paying attention and I'm engaged and
i want to know you more. And so I think
for me, it's like and for all of us, I
think if we led from a place of curiosity, it's
not just about like women making the world better, but
if we let it from a place of curiosity, the
world would be better because we would want to know
(04:48):
about other people. We wouldn't make assumptions about their belief
systems or how they behave.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Or their rationale.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
We would actually ask and then connect because we probably
have some commonalities once we understand what people's differences are.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Which I think is especially important these days. You know,
the Internet is such a gift in terms of connection,
but the more it's algorithmically programmed, the more you're only
met with what you already think. So the ability to
be curious about people, where they come from, how they live,
what's important to them, I think is something we need
(05:24):
now before we jump into all the amazing things you're doing.
I love on the show to go backwards with people because,
like everyone knows her resume right, anyone I get to interview,
people usually know what you have going on now. But
I like to ask this question. I'm really curious for you,
especially because you moved around so much as a kid.
(05:46):
If you could like fold space time, yes, and we
could hang out with bows as a ten year old
girl up here on the stage with us, paint me
a picture of her life and ponder if you would
see the woman you are today in her Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Oh that's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Okay, So at ten, at ten, we were living in
Kenya in Nairobi. My parents are Ghanian and we moved
around a lot because my dad loves to do that.
He's a nomad and an academic and you know, wants
to ponder all kind of world and human politics. But
at ten, I was already very curious about the world
(06:29):
and people. And because for anyone who has ever you know,
as a child, maybe even as an adult, where you're
plucked from one place that you're very familiar with and
put in another place, all you want to do is
fit in, you know, all you want to do is
get along.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Now, I recognize that most people think Africa is just
like one country.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
However, there are many countries in it, and those countries
have lots of different types of cultures and belief systems.
And so for me it was very disjointing because at ten.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And you remember what you were like, right, I mean
I don't know, I.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Was gangly and not really I didn't know what was
going on, you know, But the things that I needed
to do in order to connect with my classmates and
even just a larger culture was back to the curiosity
of things, you know, understanding It's like, well, what do
people love? What were they thinking? You know, It's like
what was the most popular music? Like what were the
(07:22):
dance steps, you know, the stuff that is like makes
culture but then makes you also connect with people, and
it was even more pronounced.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I'll jump ahead two years because at.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Twelve, we immigrated from Ghana to Colgo Springs, Colorado, and
that was an even bigger jump. And so like for me,
it's like, look, I now would look back and I
don't know that the girl then would recognize me now.
But I am so thankful for the experiences at that
age because it really does make me who I am.
(07:52):
Like I feel like, look across cultures and cross countries
and language and belief systems, that there's so much more
commonality than we actually think there is.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah. Well, and when I think about your career, the
massive companies that you've walked into one after another, each
has a culture, each has a place, like the ability
to navigate culture shock and to listen and look for
you know, patterns with people that you learned as a
(08:23):
kid probably served you incredible in your career.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Well, so yeah, that's like the number one question I
get when I talk about like the different companies I've
worked for, right, because it's like mostly in the C
suite it's white men, you know, almost entirely. Oh you
don't say girl. And then I walk in and it's
very different. It's like one of these things is not
like the other, you know. But it's interesting to me
because you know, when I just said about like when
(08:49):
we were ten or twelve, you just wanted to like
fit in, you know, you don't want to be different
from anybody. But the real beauty of our unique experiences
isn't the connection so that we can assum it's not
the connection so that you can just be like everybody else.
Is the connection so that you can actually be or
a unique individual person and be accepted because people understand it,
(09:09):
you don't. And so, yes, I walked into Uber when
it was like on fire, and Travis Kalanik, the founder
and CEO, got fired two days after I got there,
And I'm sitting here as the chief brand officer, like
when the hell am I supposed to do now? And
what are all these people? And they don't even believe
what I have to say? And I had to bring
my own experiences into it. And so the idea that
(09:31):
we as individuals don't have power based on who we
actually are is a lie. Yeah, And I take it
even back to like science, right, I've given this example
many times, but I'm like, look, just because I'm a
marketer and I wear a short skirts does not mean
I don't know science. Right now, physics, you understand matter
and matter can be anything, can be this room, it
(09:52):
can be a pool.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Of woman after my own heart, I must say.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Matter is amazing. Okay, yes, So matter is made up
of molecules. So in any situation, it's a bunch of
molecules together that make a matter. You remove one molecule
and the whole matter changes. You add another molecule and
the whole matter changes. That is actual science. And so
if we take this room, for instance, and we remove
(10:16):
one person, we have now dynamically changed. And if you
take that into the boardroom I enter, and the whole
matter changes. You know, it's like my experience is my understanding.
It's like me as a first generation American, as someone
who speaks two languages, as a.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Widow, as a mother of an amazing girl.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
You know, like though, all those experiences are truly important
in changing the matter of the place that you are.
And that's why even at any level in which you're at,
whether you're at a company or you're in.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
An organization or community.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Like wherever you are, your molecule truly matters, and so
show up as your full self, as the person who
can impact the area and the situation, because once you leave,
your fingerprints to still be on it.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Well, and I think it's so important, especially now when
we see a lot of frankly illogical attacks on diversity,
on equity, on inclusion. It's like, your experiences make a
place better. Yes, the things you learned losing your husband
(11:27):
give you insight into what people are experiencing, just like
the things that you've learned running companies, just like being
a mom. The more diversity of experience that actually comes
into a room, the richer the thing you build is.
And then you don't find which I know you've heard
the phrase, and I've heard the phrase because you know,
(11:50):
we were around for the birth of some of these
big internet companies. You hear CEOs and CTOs talk about how, oh,
you know they had to reverse engineer to fill in
all these holes because when they were building the thing,
they didn't know it was going to have to do
fill in the blank. So the blanks are like it's
like craters and things fall through the cracks, and there
(12:10):
would be less of them if more experiences, if more
perspectives had been there from the beginning, not the other
way around.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
So the lie that who you are needs to change
be smaller is you know, woke?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yes, it's all upside.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
Down exactly what, because like we're trying to put definitions
on just common sense, you know, I'm like, I just
don't even understand how we're even still having this conversation,
you know, because the truth of the matter is that
go back to the curiosity of things.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
It's like, if you don't have a good understanding of
what somebody in a different situation from you is experiencing,
then how can you actually make great decisions for the
business or the company? Right, Yes, it's not possible, and
my singular experience is not enough, and so therefore I
do need to surround myself with people who have different
(13:05):
ways of being, you know, who have different belief systems.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
And the challenge that.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
I find is that somehow we have been lied to
to think that if somebody has a different opinion, different
belief system, that you must convert them to your own
belief and that is the only way to move forward.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
It is not.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
It's like, look, the whole world is made up of
so many interesting people. It really comes down to the
love of people and the love of curiosity. It's like,
if you really want to get to know somebody better,
it's like, look, they can have different belief systems than you,
and you can still respect them and they can respect you.
And so the idea of DEI or any of these
other reverse engineering tactics, I'm like, that's all stupid because
(13:51):
it's just common sense and it's the way that we
should be as human beings. Like, forget all the math
that you need to do in order to check the
boxes for the company. It's like, what are you doing
as a human And again, sometimes we want to point
at leadership and say, oh, well they have created this,
or they have not done that, or they need to
create a policy.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
And I'm always like, but what are you doing? What
are you doing in your seat from where you are?
Speaker 4 (14:15):
You know, you're not powerless, and so if your belief
system doesn't change and you don't behave in the way
in which is common sense, then we can't expect leadership
to have any difference. So I don't care what the
administration is doing at this point in time.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well, I do care.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
But at the same time, yeah, I think that we
have so much power and for some reason we don't
believe that we do.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
And it's not about.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Necessarily thinking like, oh, well, what can one person do
to change the world. It's like, no, but what are
you doing in your neighborhood, you know, what are you
doing in the school where your kids go, What are
you doing in the boardroom that you're in, what are
you doing in the cubicle next to you that you know?
Can you can actually connect with somebody? So I don't
think that we're powerless. And I don't believe that whatever
(15:00):
policies are metted down about DEI or any other kind
of diverse conversation, that we should then abandon ship and
think that like we need to all just stick in
our individual roles and only the people who agree.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
With us are the ones who are right. That cannot
be the case.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
You're gonna get to the end of the day no
matter what. Yes, the time is going to pass, no
matter what. So yes, we will hold power to account. Yeah,
but also what have you done in your world? In
your world at the end of your day. That's correct,
because I think we forget that it's important to pay
(15:35):
attention to the big picture, but it's also important to
remember you can affect what's around you in every moment
of your life.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
That's correct.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Like you know what, Sometimes people say like, oh, well,
you know what, Like I will affect change once I
get into the C suite or once I get into
the corner office and I have power, And I'm like,
let me tell you a big secret.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Is everybody ready for this one? However you are.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Behaving now is how you'll be when you're in the
C suite, And it gets harder, not easier, because then
the spotlight is really on and people are staring at you,
and the decisions you make they will talk about, they'll
be angry about. And if you don't have the the
practice and it's really practice of again and again and
(16:18):
again making these choices and you know, fighting for what
is right, then you will not make it.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
When you're in the c suite.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
You'll go along and you'll just do the thing that
everybody else tells you to do, and you won't affect change.
And so that's why I strongly advocate that we stop
looking at leadership for the answers. You know that for us,
we are we truly do have the power, and it
really is about the individual, the mono and mono conversation
that we're having which actually ends up changing the entire policy.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute, but here's
a word from our sponsors. Well, what I like about
what you're talking about because it's really my two favorite things.
You're talking about the emotional, that empathetic and you're talking
about science. And the way I think about it is
like we have to manifest scientifically, Like if we want
(17:11):
to put attention on what we would like to be
true in our lives, then we have to be the
leaders we don't think we have, right, we have to
be the friends we wish we'd had when we had
gone through a loss. Yes, we have to be the
neighbors that you would want to have in a disaster.
I mean, shout out to every single person here who's
(17:32):
also an Angelino like us, because watching the way that
our city showed up in January, when you know, from
the west side to the east side there was such
horrible devastation, I was like, listen, one of the things
I love about La is no matter how pissed people
in this neighborhood might be about the new restaurant in
that neighborhood, the minute something goes down, everybody's team la.
(17:56):
And I think it's a It was a really important
reminder for me at the top of the year, knowing
what was happening, you know, what was set to begin
on inauguration Day, I was like, oh, right, look what
our communities can do irrespective of this other mess. And
I think it's why everyone who knows you, everyone who
follows you online, wants to be in your energy, because
(18:19):
you remind people how powerful they are. Look every day.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
I wrongly believe that it's like, you know what, I
remember getting on a zoom a meeting the day after inauguration.
N Actually, I'm sorry. It wasn't the day after inauguration.
It was the day after the election. The results had
come in, of course, and lots of people took the
day off, right, But I was in a meeting. I
tell you something, and this is not like I don't
mean anything by it besides telling you the truth, which
(18:45):
is as I was actually very energized, you.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Know, Like I woke up that morning I was like, oh,
I see it's my turn. I've got to do something,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Like, I came into meetings that day, and the meetings
I was in were about building my business.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Right.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
So the business I've created is a hair company, hair
and beauty company.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
It's called Eve by Bose.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
It's centered on black women and women of color for
hair extensions and hair care. And the reason why I
felt so drawn to it was at one, I love hair, Okay,
I love bundles. Okay, what are we even doing? But
it's incredible to me that eighty percent of the consumer
base of hair extensions are black women or women of color,
but they're not centered in the conversation. The innovation is
(19:30):
not about them, The texture is not about them.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
You can go on Google.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Or wherever else and see fourteen million videos of how
to manipulate the hair extensions so they match women of
color or black women's textures. And I was like, well,
why do we have to do that? First of all,
I'm sick and tired of doing it. And so I
went to China, yes by myself, me six foot tall
and black, to the largest hair show in the world
(19:54):
in Guangzhou. Day one, I made a mistake I didn't
have interpreter. That was a problem. Day two I learned
I came as an interpreter so I could get the
information because the things I was asking were like, why
is the texture like this? Why do lace colors only
come in white? Why are they not brown? Why are
they not different shades? You see fency out here. They're
killing the game. Forty shades on air?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
What are we doing?
Speaker 4 (20:14):
And the answers were not that difficult, you know. It
was a choice that people were making. They were like,
oh no, it's possible, we just don't do it because
nobody really asked us to do it. And I was like, oh, okay,
so let me gather all the information. I'm simplifying a
lot of things. But it took many months and almost
eighteen months to build that. I eventually built a factory
in Ghana where I could then manufacture the product myself,
(20:37):
with black women and women.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Of color at the center of it.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
And so the day after inauguration, when I was sitting
there and everybody else was like, oh no, what is me?
Speaker 3 (20:44):
What are we going to do?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I was like, we got to move, we have to motivate,
we have to take the power. Like I don't care
who's sit in that house, like, we have to do it.
And so why would I Why would I cry? Why
would I mourn? When I have the power to do
something and I am still energized. So every time I
see a new stupid ass headline, oh Lord have mercy,
(21:08):
I mean, it annoys me for like three seconds, and
then it motivates me to.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Move, because what are we gonna do.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
You know, we're gonna sit around and wait four years
before we do something about this.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
No, we gotta motivate.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
And so for me, it's like, look, I'm taking every
opportunity in every room I'm in as the molecule that
changes matter to make things better for.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Me and for my community. Yes, and it any night,
come on you girl.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
It's like I feel like we're all gonna need and
ironically we'll have it. It'll be on the podcast. I'm like,
I need a recording of this just to be in
my in my little air pod when I'm having a
bad day, just walk around getting a Bose pep talk
in the house. You you you said something a while
back that I love so much. You said you are
never intimidated in spaces that you know other people pople
(22:00):
might not always think you.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Should be in oh girl. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
And when you talk about power, when you talk about motivation,
when you talk about being inspired to fix all of
it is really it feels to me like forward motion.
And so I want to know, is that innate for
you or do you think that's something you've learned through
your career, because as I mentioned earlier, the resume is unbelievable,
(22:26):
from you know, Apple Music to Ubert and Netflix. When
you think back on some of the first days in
some of those offices, yes, how do you walk in
with this kind of confidence?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Or is it something you learned in one of those
places and you've taken with you into rest.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So it's a combination of things.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Right again, just back to the science of it all
and this time will do math. Okay, Yes, So each
of us that are sitting here, it took two sets
of DNA in order to create us. Right, you go
back like twelve generations, and that's four thousand people that
it took for you individual to sit here. And so
when I walk into a room, I'm like, oh, there's
(23:08):
four thousand people coming with me, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
That, like, my.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Individual journey is as important as anyone else's. And I
realized that that might sound Try it, and it might
sound like, oh, she's just talking, But it's like if
you actually believe that, if you truly put it into
your spirit, there is no room you walk into and
feel like an imposter. There's no table you sit at
and think, I don't belong here, because you do, why
(23:34):
the hell would you be there. I also believe in
my own destiny, you know, I believe that the steps
I take are meant to be.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
And the thing is that I also.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Have this belief about destiny, which is like it's not
just written and then it happens. It's like your forward motion,
your steps are actually what then create it and make
it come true. And so when I'm sitting at a table,
I am meant to be there. All the things in
my life have led me to that moment, and so
I have to show what in the fullness of myself,
with all the experiences I have, with my ideas, with
(24:05):
my opinions, and so part of it is innate and
that I understand math. And then I'm like, Okay, it
took a lot of people for me to get here,
and all these experiences for me to be in this room,
so I'm going to I'm actually going to show up,
like in the fullness of myself. And then through experience,
it has really been about urgency for me, you know.
(24:25):
So I said before that I'm a widow. My husband
died of cancer in twenty thirteen, so we're coming up
on twelve years, which is just absolutely incredible to me.
He died right before his forty fourth birthday, and one
of the most there's a lot to say about that experience,
but one of the most life changing moments was at
(24:46):
his funeral when my daughter and I are standing in
the receiving line, you know, people are finding out of
the church and shaking our hands and giving us hugs,
and people kept saying over and over and over, they
were like, oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
He died so young. There was so much left to do.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
And I remember feeling burdened by that thought and afraid
of that and being like, well, what happens. It was
like a fear that was in my spirit, like oh
my gosh, Like what if what if I'm not here
long enough to do the things I'm supposed to do,
or if I'm not here long enough to fulfill my destiny,
like what I'm afraid. But what changed for me was
(25:30):
the thought of urgency. And urgency isn't necessarily about speed,
you know. I realized that we're like, oh, we got something,
we must move fast.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
You know. It's not about speed. Urgency is about intention,
you know.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
It's about moving with intention, passion yes, and saying that like,
this is what I want to do right now, and
therefore nothing's going to stop me from doing it.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
That is urgent.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
And for me, it's like in my life, the way
that I've been able to overcome that very crippling fear
of leaving too soon is that I want my entire
life to feel as big as possible. In my book
and the epithet, I have a quote by Diane Ackerman
(26:11):
and i'll paraphrase it. I won't say it exactly, but
it says, I want to get to my end of
my life and not just have lived the length of it,
but to have lived the width of it, which is
so beautiful, you know, the thought that like, you're going
to live as wide as possible, and I challenge all
of us to do that. It's like, what is it
that you're dreaming of that you're thinking of even in
(26:33):
the small decisions that you make every single day that
are true to you, that you're not just living for
the expectation of other people. I don't care if it's
your mama, Okay, it's like, are you living for the
expectation of your own life? Because regardless of what time
I go, I want people to be like, God, damn, she.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Lived a big life. Godly, look at what that girl did. Yeah,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
And if I can do that, and if I can
live urgently with the purpose of trying to accomplish the
things that I want to accomplish in my life, girl,
then there's no room I walk into without feeling like
I belong there and I'm there to get what I'm
supposed to get.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I love that. I love that right for all of
our friends out here. If you have not read the book,
it's so beautiful. It is called The Urgent Life, My
Story of Love, Loss and Survival. And I was lucky
enough a few years ago to moderate one of the
book talks on it and had to keep myself from
crying the whole way through. So that's fine. You've been
(27:35):
so bold not only with joy and power, but with reality.
With pain, with sharing that story of loss, with talking
about what it's like to rebuild. And you know you
mentioned you're coming up on twelve years. Your daughter is
(27:55):
here again, taller than me. It's fine. It doesn't make
me feel old at all, ma'am. How do you think
about it? You know you two are so beautifully close,
you mom, at the level that you ceemo. Yes, you know,
(28:16):
and I admire it so much. And while I hate
that women are so often ask like how do you
balance at all? Because they never ask the men, I
don't want to know that. What I want to know
is with a sixteen year old, now, like, what are
some of the best lessons from career and motherhood combined?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yes, Like will you give us the cheat codes?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yes? I will.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I want a mom like you mom, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
But okay, so this where we all sit up and
then we get a little closer, right, because I'm going
to tell you something and sometimes I get in trouble
for saying it, but I'm going to tell you that
you are the center of your life. And I recognize
that that sounds like a simple sentence, but if you
actually behave that way, it will dynamically change your life.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Meaning that you are the center of your life.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Now, Leel, my daughter will tell you that when I
ask her, or if somebody asking you, who's the most
important person in your life? And people expect that because
I'm a mother, I'm gonna be like, oh, my daughter, No,
I am the most important person in my life.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
And I realized that that's like, it sounds selfish.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
It's like, well, okay, fine, because who else am I
supposed to be filled with but myself. The truth of
the matter is that I've said this in another setting
and it got a lot of attention because I reminded
people that a lot of us, many of us here,
you don't have to identify yourself, but many of us
here are walking around consequences of somebody's unfulfilled dreams. We're
(29:47):
walking around with burdens of feeling like I've got to
do this because this person wasn't able to do it,
or this person sacrifice so that I could sit here.
And therefore you can't live your own life. You can't
center yourself. But it is a deeply life changing perspective
to say I'm at the center and I'm going to
(30:08):
do the things I promise you. Leyela is a much
more fulfilled human because I've centered myself, because I am
happy in my life, because I'm going after the things
I want to go after, because I'm ambitious. And the
thing is that she comes along because I respect her.
And even as early as four years old, when we
(30:29):
would have the conversation about like, Okay, mommy has to
go to Coopertino, which we lived in, that we live
here in LA and so I take a flight to
go to work and then come back. Therefore, sometimes I'd
miss the parent teacher, you know, conferences, or I'd miss
the basketball game she played, or I'd miss the practice.
(30:49):
But she knows that if she says to me, look,
this is really important to me and I need you
to be there, I will be there. But doesn't stop
me from being completely ambitious in what I do. And
so my hope is that as she grows and as
all of us develop, that you center yourself in your
life because you'll be a much more fulfilled person. And
therefore you can be a blessing not just to your children,
(31:10):
to the community that you're in, into the boardrooms that
you're in, because you'll have the confidence of knowing that
I'm here because I want to be better. I want
to be great, And if you center yourself truly, it
is a revolutionary act, and so we should do that
more often.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yes, we'll be back in just a minute after a
few words from our favorite sponsors. One of the things
I think is shifting most for our generation in particular,
is that we understand if we don't write our own
permission slips, nobody else is going to do it. And
(31:47):
when you become you know, a parent, a partner, a
step parent, whatever version it is, if they don't see
you write a permission slip for yourself, how are they
supposed to learn to do it for them?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
So what I'm saying, look, my hope is that Leyelle
walks into every room that she's in and knows that
she's the most important person. Now, look, that doesn't mean
necessarily that you're walking around arrogant and like dismissing everybody's thought.
But the idea that you walk in self confidently is
a game changer because how many of us have also
been the victim of somebody's insecurity? Since I see you, okay,
(32:22):
it's like everybody in here has, And imagine if that
person had been confident about their own presence had been
satisfied in what they're doing in their life, that they
would not have treated you the way that you're treated.
And so for me, it's like, look, I'm passing on
this belief system not because I want to raise an asshole,
but because I want to make sure that she is
(32:44):
the most fulfilled person she can be so the world
can see her for the fullness of herself, and so
that she can be.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
In every room and be dynamic in it and change it.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yeah, that's the human I want to raise.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
And one of the things I love for us too.
The lessons I learned from the women in my life
watching them be incredible parents, watching them do this work
differently than any of our parents had the tools to do.
Is not only do I get to see you parent well,
(33:17):
but I watch you reparent yourselves. I get reparented by
watching the women in my life parent well. Heal, you know,
I realize, Oh, I don't need to carry this thing
that somebody put in my backpack when I was a
kid that I never went in and dumped in the garbage,
like I'm gonna put this down. Who's even is this?
(33:39):
And so I think there's a really there's a really
special moment that can happen for them, the ones who
come after us. But it goes the other way, and
it kind of heals us in the versions of us
before today as well, And it's those are the conversations
I want to be having with badass women. There are
parents that I know. I'm like, please stop asking her
(34:01):
how she schedules her day and ask her like how
she's putting.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
But that's the whole point is that, like, if you
are centered in your life and therefore fulfilled, balance doesn't
become a question. You don't start to wonder like, oh
I should do this more or do this less, or
how am I going to accomplish this? And how am
I going to make sure this person feels comfortable. It's
like the balance comes because you've censered yourself and therefore
you know your priorities and you're going to act on those,
and therefore you're happier. You don't so when people ask, oh,
(34:30):
how do you do it all, I'm like, because I've
centered myself and what I want to do, and so
therefore it's like you have.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
A to do list? Right?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Most of us do, and girl, you know that sometimes
you just don't do the things at the bottom. They
just keep going to the next day and the next
day and the next day because you don't want to
do it.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Well, imagine the easiest thing that you've already done at
the top. So you can start by checking something off.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Well, here's what I said. Here's the revolutionary thing I said.
I said, just take it off the list.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Don't do it. Why do you need to do it?
Speaker 4 (34:57):
If there's something so terrible that you keep putting it off,
then you need to take it off your list. Actually
take it off the list, like figure out another way
for somebody else to do it, Like they say, get
somebody else do it.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
If you can do that, it changes your life dynamically
because then you're excited about the things. Like my list
of things that I have to do today are all
things I actually want to do. And that's how I
balance because I'm excited about doing that. You know, when
you don't want to do something, it takes you forever
to do it. You know, I'm a natural procrastinator. I'll
oh man, I'll be the one. I won't even look.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Our whole generation of undiagnosed women with ADHD give me
a break. Procrastination is my spiritual I'm I'm like, I
have a deadline. Do you need me to come over
and color coordinate your closet for you?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I will look.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
And first of all, we cannot get dressed in fifteen minutes, okay,
So I don't know why you're sitting on their couch.
No one that's just supposed to leave him in twenty
and you're still sitting there, okay, because none of.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Us can do it. So I don't know why we
sit around and wait.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
But the truth of the matter is that when you're
really excited about something, you don't even have to like
think about it. You want to do it right, you
want to get into it, you want to accomplish a thing.
And so I'm like, look, if you have a to
do list and there are things on there that have
moved so many times that you don't even remember when
you first put it on your list, get rid of it,
Like it's really that simple. Find somebody else do it,
(36:16):
and that way you don't have to worry.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
It's like the anxiety inducing cleanup that comes with closing
all the open tabs on your computer. Yes, exactly one
day I was like, what if I just quit Safari,
I'm not looking at it anyway. You're just gonna be gone.
And then I'm going to open my computer and go,
well that looks nice instead of uh oh, there's two
(36:40):
tabs I just closed, Safari. Click Now that might be
a lesson from this whole conversation. Close, Safari, you have you.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
That is the lesson today in every capacity, I'm going.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
To title the episode of this podcast. You have a
permission slip to close your tabs.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Yes, close your tabs. That's what it is in every
aspect of But in.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Your life you keep opening new cool ones. Yes, and
I mean yes, but you know you you ran every
every corporate world. Then you took time to write your
book and then in a move no one expected, you
were like, yeah, I'll be a real housewife. I was like,
(37:21):
what I mean? And you're so good? But can I
ask a question? And I don't mean this to be judgy,
I just want to like say an observation, because genuinely,
I was like, isn't that the show where like all
the women yell at each other, Like Bose is not
a yeller. She is a cheerleader. She is like a teammate,
I don't think I get it. So then I decided
(37:42):
to tune in to watch you, and I was like, Oh,
she's changing the vibe of a whole industry. Is that
a conscious goal for you?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Oh, say more everything, because.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Again, it just goes back to the idea of being
a molecule. Right, matter exists, You're right, the understanding of
what this franchise and how these women behave is a
known matter.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
But me coming in, I'm my own molecule.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
I do not have to subscribe to the ways in
which the matter has been because I'm there. I am
that important, and I wish all of us would believe
that of ourselves. And so for me, as I contemplated
what I wanted to do next and how this opportunity
could be beneficial to me as well as being able
to put out a new idea or a new concept
(38:30):
of how women can be, I was like, oh, hell yeah,
because where are the ones who are self made, who
get up and go to work, you know, who build
something themselves. We're the ones who have conflict but understand
how to resolve them as adults and not yell and
scream and be ridiculous. We're the ones who support each
other through the really hard times. Where's the truth about
(38:51):
the mess of our lives? Where it's like, look, not
everything is tied up in a bow. And I recognize that, Yes,
my resume looks the way it looks, and people known
me for you know what I've done in the business world,
but you don't know what I'm like at home. And
so why not open the door so that you can
see a different way of being? And so for me,
I feel like there's opportunity for women who have the
(39:14):
same type of ideal, not necessarily living the same life,
not necessarily even having the same politics or the same
religion or the same belief systems, but that we can
have a more elevated and sophisticated way of entertaining each
other by actually showing what this kind of elevated experience
looks like. And the last thing I'll say about that,
how many of you think Sofia would make a great housewife?
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Right?
Speaker 4 (39:41):
I mean, it totally makes sense. I wrote her an
email or a text message in April. I'm telling all
your business. I wrote her a text messag April. I
was like, hey, I need to ask you a controversial question.
She knew what I was going to ask her. She
never responded.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
I'm telling yesterday.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
When she was like, oh, how did I miss this
text message in April telling you about housewives?
Speaker 3 (39:59):
That's what I was telling you.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I meant well to be clear, first of all, I
am a terrible text her. So I go to text
her and I'm like, oh my god, I'm so excited
to get to see you tomorrow. I can't wait. And
then I go controversial question April, and then I'm like, wow,
we really talk more in group chats than we do
the way clearly and me, I'm like, girl, what's the
controversial question? I love a controversial question. She's like, I
(40:23):
was trying to.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Get you on the show exactly because I'm just like,
you know, we need more women who are self possessed,
who enjoy their relationships with other women, who understand conflict
and drama, not because they want to put on a spectacle,
but because that's just what life is, and are unafraid
to talk about the hard stuff, are unafraid to show
(40:45):
the warts in all of their lives because we are
all mirroring what we see well.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
And the interesting thing I'm realizing watching your journey there is.
What you're doing is you're modeling a healthier way. Yes,
and like, isn't that what we're all trying to do
all day? Anyway? I'm like, get through the time that
passes and like it exactly. Just want to like my life,
don't you.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
That's the whole point.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
But I also think that like having a platform where
we show the relationships between women and the different ways
that the relationships are is really important. I actually think
like showing the more healthy way of being is really important.
And that's no shade to anybody who's come before. I
just think it's time for revolution.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
I love that, and that show has led to your
next show. Yes, girl, you guys, this woman just got
a casual call from Jimmy Fallon. Please tell the people
what's coming. I am so excited about it now.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
So now here's what's now. Look at look at God.
I'm gonna tell you something, Okay.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
So the idea of like walking in your purpose and
your destiny regardless of what other people think of you
is actually my testimony because you will not believe, or
you probably will believe the number of people who are like,
why would you go on this show Housewives when you
have such an amazing career. You are a corporate batty,
You're a Hall of fame, Like, why would you do that?
You were ruined your reputation. And I was like, I
have an idea. I'm gonna go anyway. And I went
(42:07):
and in the literally the first episode, I show up
in my glorious gown, okay, because a girl's got a sleigh,
all right, And I run through my resume because I
wanted them to all know who they were dealing with,
you know what I'm saying, and I assert my power.
And what I didn't know is that Jimmy Fallon and
his wife Nancy were watching the show and our fans,
and Jimmy had sold an idea to NBC for a
(42:31):
reality competition that centered marketing, so think about like Shark
Tank or Project Runway, but for marketing people.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
And he had interviewed a bunch.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Of cmos who had great resumes but not the personality.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
They were boring okay.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
And then he saw me on Healthwives and I ran
down my resume and he was like, oh my god,
I found her. And so his people called my people
and then we got on the phone and within ten
minutes we had agreed that we were going to film
a new show together. It's called On Brand. It launches
in September, premieres on NBC, and it's a magical show
(43:10):
because I love the idea that beautiful, creative ideas can
come from anywhere. You know, there are contestants on the
show who are There's one who's like a real estate agent.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
There's one who's a swim instructor.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
There's one who's a marketing professor, like so he actually
academically understands the business. But it's wonderful because every week
a new brand comes, gives a brief, and then the
contestants have to come up with creative ideas.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
And what's amazing is that, like, I cannot tell.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
You the number of people that when you know I
worked at Uber, I worked at PEPSI, I worked at Apple,
would like, you know, tag me in a comment or
like ping me, or god forbid, I was in an
airport somebody recognized me and would be like, I have
an idea for a new soda, I have an idea
for a new way, for a new tech idea. I
have a new idea for an Apple product. And I'm like, Okay,
(43:56):
fantastic now I have a show and people can do
that and it's actually entertaining, and so for me, it's
an exciting new chapter in my life. And to be
able to do that and marry my marketing expertise with
an entertaining show and Jimmy Fallon is incredible. I mean,
just thought of the earth guys, sweetest oh, an amazing
(44:17):
human being who really really cares and is excited about
life and excited about ideas, and so it is really
a pleasure to agree with him.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Obviously we get to the show in September, but that
feels long. I want to know, and maybe it's a
crazy question to ask, but I know there's so many
business owners in this audience. Is there a piece of
marketing advice or brand advice? Yes, that you think is
the most important thing? Yes, for a business owner to know?
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Absolutely? Okay again, lean in everybody, all right, We're going
to talk about this because it is a hard thing
to do and it's a hard team to believe. Which
is that most of us create because we see a
need in the market and we want to fill the space.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Right.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
The challenge is that we're too wide, you know. So
the idea that marketing or the thing that you've created
needs to apply to everyone is a lie because there
are a bulls eye, and so you need a bullseye target,
secondary target, tertiary target. Right now, the bulls eye is
where all the magic is. And guess what it's actually you.
(45:23):
So I recognize that we make something and we're like, oh,
but I want to get to the widest audience possible. No,
the idea is that they actually need to fall in love.
And so consider that your product, your idea, is a
human and that human is based on you, and get
the people to fall in love with that. That's how
you actually make the change. And so in every company
I've been in, whether it has been as big as
(45:46):
Uber or even in creating eve by Bo's, it's like
the detail of what I'm doing has me in it.
The ideas are born from this brain, from this heart,
from these experiences. And so the one piece of marketing
advice I'll give you is that you need to make
your target small and it needs to be centered on you.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
You're welcome marketing class.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Exactly, I'm like, welcome to my lectures here. Okay, we
are coming up on time. I want to know I
can't imagine you adding anything else to the list, but
I have a feeling you will when you look out
at the rest of your summer, the rest of your
twenty twenty five, when you think about what more you want, yes,
(46:39):
or what you're looking forward to? Yeah, what's the center
that feels like you're work in progress?
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Okay, So here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
Oftentimes people ask me, like, you know, who I'm inspired by,
and they think it's going to be an answer like
my mother or something like that, and my mom, but
she's not it.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
I'm it. The eighty year old version of me is
who I'm inspired by.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
The woman who's going to be sitting there and being
like child, Let me tell you about the story, let
me tell you what I did. That's the person I'm
working for, the person that I am trying to impress,
because everything that I do has to have that level
of excitement. And so I don't have a five year
plan or a ten year plan. You know, people always
say like, oh, well, you've got to make a plan
to hit you know, the target. The truth of the
(47:28):
matter is that it is more ethereal than that. You know,
this existence that we have is not built on the
sequential order of how we think the universe exists. It
is more magical than that. And so you have to
open yourself up to the possibilities of what is going
to come for you, and you have to move boldly
(47:49):
in that direction. And so ten years ago when I
met you, could I have imagined that I'd be a
real housewife and then I'd have a show with Jimmy Fallon.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Yeah, But the truth is that I didn't have a
ten year plan which told me, Okay, by that time,
you need to be CEO of this company and blah blah,
blah blah. I left myself open to the possibilities. I mean,
such a better place than what I would have imagined.
And I also this is when I get through through.
But you know, I believe in the power of God,
you know, and I believe that the destiny that I
(48:20):
have is written in a way that is unimaginable to me.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
So why would I think that I could orchestrate it.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
My job is to walk by faith, and that's what
I do every single day. So people look at my
resume or say, oh my gosh, do you do such
big things or how do these amazing opportunities come, and
I'm like, because I'm walking by faith, I'm walking in
the direction, and I am not encumbered by a plan
that I have because my imagination is way too small
for that. Right.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
You always hear people talk about, oh, beyond your wildest dreams. Yeah,
and someone said to me years ago, make sure your
wildest dreams aren't a box you put your yourself in.
Look and absolutely, look where we are today. I'm so
happy to know you. I love you. Thank you for
coming and.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
Inspiring young right, thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it, and I wish you all a very
urgent life. If that's the one thing that you can
take away from this is center yourself in your life.
Make sure you are urgent about the things that you're doing,
and make sure that you're doing it for you and
not the expectation of anyone else.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
God bless you.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Thank you both.
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
We're about to witness a live podcast recording of Work
in Progress with Sophia Bush. I know we have some
Sofia Bush fans in the house.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
She is that girl.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
She is an activist, an actress, an entrepreneur, a storyteller.
She stole our hearts in One Tree Hill and since
then she's done what so few have the courage to do.
She used her platform to advocate for social justice, for
women's rights, for civic engagement. Her podcast, Work in Progress
is on my queue every week and she explores the messy,
(00:48):
meaningful journeys of people who inspire her. Okay, we have
a major surprise guest. I'm excited I get to introduce her.
It is Bozama Saint John.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Now.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Bosama is the definition of if you want it, go
get it. From Pepsi to Apple, to Uber to Netflix,
she hasn't just shaped.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Brands, She's shaped culture.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay, now she's rewriting the playbook again with her new company,
Eve by Boz. It's a hair care line with products
manufactured entirely in Ghana, where she was born. So because
boz doesn't do anything halfway, the hair is amazing.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Let's welcome these ladies with the energy they deserved.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Sophia Bosh Bosama, Saint.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
John, Hello, hello everyone. We were we were just watching
how wonderful this is and organized, and Jamielle called that
nice woman up to share about her company, and I
looked at Bo's and I was like, see when people
ask me, oh, do you really think things would be
so amazing if the women were in charge? Yes, yes,
(01:52):
it would be like this all the time.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
And then we could also wear sports and middrift showing suits.
You know what I'm saying, you know, because we'd be
in charge. Thank you, I know, yeah, tell somebody, Okay, yeah,
okute guys.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I have to say I'm so excited to be back
here with all of you. I do feel like women
gathering is very important in healing right now. So thank
you for having us, Thank you for coming. And I
have to say I met this amazing woman almost ten
years ago.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
We were at a conference shocker for anyone who knows me.
You you know, I love a nerd event, and I
was so struck by like one of the most powerful
women in business. Also just being so cool. We like,
suddenly there was dinner, there were drinks, things were happening.
(02:48):
We were talking about our lives and I was like,
aren't you like in charge of Netflix, aren't you? I
feel like you're really busy and you manage to do
so much, whether it's business, being the most amazing mom.
I cannot believe your daughter's taller than me. Now this
is really weird. Everything you do, you do is such heart,
(03:09):
and you manage to make people feel like they are
the center of your attention, and your attention is wanted
by everyone. So how'd you do it? Give us the
inside baseball please?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Nice of you and also than ten years. Wow, that's
crazy since we're only twenty five. That's true exactly. We've
been aged today.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
But you know what I think at the center of it,
I really love people.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
And I know that probably sounds corny and maybe you
know what, but I love people.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Now that doesn't mean that I'm an extrovert. You know.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
I don't do well like just going into a room
and then walking around and saying hi to everybody that's
not me.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
But I am deeply curious about people.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
It's like I am that person that will be sitting
in the airport and you're hustling about somebody else's conversation.
Now you know, I'm not calling eaveydrop. I'm just calling
you're hustling, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
What I mean. But I'm just curious.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
And I think for me, it's part of why I
do the work that I do, because as a marketer
and as a business person, I have to deeply understand
what's happening in culture, what people are thinking about, what
they love, what they like in order to do my
job well. And that has also gone into my personal
life because I deeply want to understand people's stories and
(04:26):
why they tick the way they tick. And so yes,
when I met you, I'm like, oh, tell me more, Sophia,
you know, and I'm paying attention and I'm engaged and
i want to know you more. And so I think
for me, it's like and for all of us, I
think if we led from a place of curiosity, it's
not just about like women making the world better, but
if we let it from a place of curiosity, the
world would be better because we would want to know
(04:48):
about other people. We wouldn't make assumptions about their belief
systems or how they behave.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Or their rationale.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
We would actually ask and then connect because we probably
have some commonalities once we understand what people's differences are.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Which I think is especially important these days. You know,
the Internet is such a gift in terms of connection,
but the more it's algorithmically programmed, the more you're only
met with what you already think. So the ability to
be curious about people, where they come from, how they live,
what's important to them, I think is something we need
(05:24):
now before we jump into all the amazing things you're doing.
I love on the show to go backwards with people because,
like everyone knows her resume right, anyone I get to interview,
people usually know what you have going on now. But
I like to ask this question. I'm really curious for you,
especially because you moved around so much as a kid.
(05:46):
If you could like fold space time, yes, and we
could hang out with bows as a ten year old
girl up here on the stage with us, paint me
a picture of her life and ponder if you would
see the woman you are today in her Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Oh that's very interesting.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Okay, So at ten, at ten, we were living in
Kenya in Nairobi. My parents are Ghanian and we moved
around a lot because my dad loves to do that.
He's a nomad and an academic and you know, wants
to ponder all kind of world and human politics. But
at ten, I was already very curious about the world
(06:29):
and people. And because for anyone who has ever you know,
as a child, maybe even as an adult, where you're
plucked from one place that you're very familiar with and
put in another place, all you want to do is
fit in, you know, all you want to do is
get along.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Now, I recognize that most people think Africa is just
like one country.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
However, there are many countries in it, and those countries
have lots of different types of cultures and belief systems.
And so for me it was very disjointing because at ten.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And you remember what you were like, right, I mean
I don't know, I.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Was gangly and not really I didn't know what was
going on, you know, But the things that I needed
to do in order to connect with my classmates and
even just a larger culture was back to the curiosity
of things, you know, understanding It's like, well, what do
people love? What were they thinking? You know, It's like
what was the most popular music? Like what were the
(07:22):
dance steps, you know, the stuff that is like makes
culture but then makes you also connect with people, and
it was even more pronounced.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I'll jump ahead two years because at.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
Twelve, we immigrated from Ghana to Colgo Springs, Colorado, and
that was an even bigger jump. And so like for me,
it's like, look, I now would look back and I
don't know that the girl then would recognize me now.
But I am so thankful for the experiences at that
age because it really does make me who I am.
(07:52):
Like I feel like, look across cultures and cross countries
and language and belief systems, that there's so much more
commonality than we actually think there is.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah. Well, and when I think about your career, the
massive companies that you've walked into one after another, each
has a culture, each has a place, like the ability
to navigate culture shock and to listen and look for
you know, patterns with people that you learned as a
(08:23):
kid probably served you incredible in your career.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Well, so yeah, that's like the number one question I
get when I talk about like the different companies I've
worked for, right, because it's like mostly in the C
suite it's white men, you know, almost entirely. Oh you
don't say girl. And then I walk in and it's
very different. It's like one of these things is not
like the other, you know. But it's interesting to me
because you know, when I just said about like when
(08:49):
we were ten or twelve, you just wanted to like
fit in, you know, you don't want to be different
from anybody. But the real beauty of our unique experiences
isn't the connection so that we can assum it's not
the connection so that you can just be like everybody else.
Is the connection so that you can actually be or
a unique individual person and be accepted because people understand it,
(09:09):
you don't. And so, yes, I walked into Uber when
it was like on fire, and Travis Kalanik, the founder
and CEO, got fired two days after I got there,
And I'm sitting here as the chief brand officer, like
when the hell am I supposed to do now? And
what are all these people? And they don't even believe
what I have to say? And I had to bring
my own experiences into it. And so the idea that
(09:31):
we as individuals don't have power based on who we
actually are is a lie. Yeah, And I take it
even back to like science, right, I've given this example
many times, but I'm like, look, just because I'm a
marketer and I wear a short skirts does not mean
I don't know science. Right now, physics, you understand matter
and matter can be anything, can be this room, it
(09:52):
can be a pool.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Of woman after my own heart, I must say.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Matter is amazing. Okay, yes, So matter is made up
of molecules. So in any situation, it's a bunch of
molecules together that make a matter. You remove one molecule
and the whole matter changes. You add another molecule and
the whole matter changes. That is actual science. And so
if we take this room, for instance, and we remove
(10:16):
one person, we have now dynamically changed. And if you
take that into the boardroom I enter, and the whole
matter changes. You know, it's like my experience is my understanding.
It's like me as a first generation American, as someone
who speaks two languages, as a.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Widow, as a mother of an amazing girl.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
You know, like though, all those experiences are truly important
in changing the matter of the place that you are.
And that's why even at any level in which you're at,
whether you're at a company or you're in.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
An organization or community.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Like wherever you are, your molecule truly matters, and so
show up as your full self, as the person who
can impact the area and the situation, because once you leave,
your fingerprints to still be on it.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Well, and I think it's so important, especially now when
we see a lot of frankly illogical attacks on diversity,
on equity, on inclusion. It's like, your experiences make a
place better. Yes, the things you learned losing your husband
(11:27):
give you insight into what people are experiencing, just like
the things that you've learned running companies, just like being
a mom. The more diversity of experience that actually comes
into a room, the richer the thing you build is.
And then you don't find which I know you've heard
the phrase, and I've heard the phrase because you know,
(11:50):
we were around for the birth of some of these
big internet companies. You hear CEOs and CTOs talk about how, oh,
you know they had to reverse engineer to fill in
all these holes because when they were building the thing,
they didn't know it was going to have to do
fill in the blank. So the blanks are like it's
like craters and things fall through the cracks, and there
(12:10):
would be less of them if more experiences, if more
perspectives had been there from the beginning, not the other
way around.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
So the lie that who you are needs to change
be smaller is you know, woke?
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yes, it's all upside.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
Down exactly what, because like we're trying to put definitions
on just common sense, you know, I'm like, I just
don't even understand how we're even still having this conversation,
you know, because the truth of the matter is that
go back to the curiosity of things.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
You know.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
It's like, if you don't have a good understanding of
what somebody in a different situation from you is experiencing,
then how can you actually make great decisions for the
business or the company? Right, Yes, it's not possible, and
my singular experience is not enough, and so therefore I
do need to surround myself with people who have different
(13:05):
ways of being, you know, who have different belief systems.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
And the challenge that.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
I find is that somehow we have been lied to
to think that if somebody has a different opinion, different
belief system, that you must convert them to your own
belief and that is the only way to move forward.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
It is not.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
It's like, look, the whole world is made up of
so many interesting people. It really comes down to the
love of people and the love of curiosity. It's like,
if you really want to get to know somebody better,
it's like, look, they can have different belief systems than you,
and you can still respect them and they can respect you.
And so the idea of DEI or any of these
other reverse engineering tactics, I'm like, that's all stupid because
(13:51):
it's just common sense and it's the way that we
should be as human beings. Like, forget all the math
that you need to do in order to check the
boxes for the company. It's like, what are you doing
as a human And again, sometimes we want to point
at leadership and say, oh, well they have created this,
or they have not done that, or they need to
create a policy.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
And I'm always like, but what are you doing? What
are you doing in your seat from where you are?
Speaker 4 (14:15):
You know, you're not powerless, and so if your belief
system doesn't change and you don't behave in the way
in which is common sense, then we can't expect leadership
to have any difference. So I don't care what the
administration is doing at this point in time.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Well, I do care.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
But at the same time, yeah, I think that we
have so much power and for some reason we don't
believe that we do.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
And it's not about.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Necessarily thinking like, oh, well, what can one person do
to change the world. It's like, no, but what are
you doing in your neighborhood, you know, what are you
doing in the school where your kids go, What are
you doing in the boardroom that you're in, what are
you doing in the cubicle next to you that you know?
Can you can actually connect with somebody? So I don't
think that we're powerless. And I don't believe that whatever
(15:00):
policies are metted down about DEI or any other kind
of diverse conversation, that we should then abandon ship and
think that like we need to all just stick in
our individual roles and only the people who agree.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
With us are the ones who are right. That cannot
be the case.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
You're gonna get to the end of the day no
matter what. Yes, the time is going to pass, no
matter what. So yes, we will hold power to account. Yeah,
but also what have you done in your world? In
your world at the end of your day. That's correct,
because I think we forget that it's important to pay
(15:35):
attention to the big picture, but it's also important to
remember you can affect what's around you in every moment
of your life.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
That's correct.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Like you know what, Sometimes people say like, oh, well,
you know what, Like I will affect change once I
get into the C suite or once I get into
the corner office and I have power, And I'm like,
let me tell you a big secret.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Is everybody ready for this one? However you are.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Behaving now is how you'll be when you're in the
C suite, And it gets harder, not easier, because then
the spotlight is really on and people are staring at you,
and the decisions you make they will talk about, they'll
be angry about. And if you don't have the the
practice and it's really practice of again and again and
(16:18):
again making these choices and you know, fighting for what
is right, then you will not make it.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
When you're in the c suite.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
You'll go along and you'll just do the thing that
everybody else tells you to do, and you won't affect change.
And so that's why I strongly advocate that we stop
looking at leadership for the answers. You know that for us,
we are we truly do have the power, and it
really is about the individual, the mono and mono conversation
that we're having which actually ends up changing the entire policy.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute, but here's
a word from our sponsors. Well, what I like about
what you're talking about because it's really my two favorite things.
You're talking about the emotional, that empathetic and you're talking
about science. And the way I think about it is
like we have to manifest scientifically, Like if we want
(17:11):
to put attention on what we would like to be
true in our lives, then we have to be the
leaders we don't think we have, right, we have to
be the friends we wish we'd had when we had
gone through a loss. Yes, we have to be the
neighbors that you would want to have in a disaster.
I mean, shout out to every single person here who's
(17:32):
also an Angelino like us, because watching the way that
our city showed up in January, when you know, from
the west side to the east side there was such
horrible devastation, I was like, listen, one of the things
I love about La is no matter how pissed people
in this neighborhood might be about the new restaurant in
that neighborhood, the minute something goes down, everybody's team la.
(17:56):
And I think it's a It was a really important
reminder for me at the top of the year, knowing
what was happening, you know, what was set to begin
on inauguration Day, I was like, oh, right, look what
our communities can do irrespective of this other mess. And
I think it's why everyone who knows you, everyone who
follows you online, wants to be in your energy, because
(18:19):
you remind people how powerful they are. Look every day.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
I wrongly believe that it's like, you know what, I
remember getting on a zoom a meeting the day after inauguration.
N Actually, I'm sorry. It wasn't the day after inauguration.
It was the day after the election. The results had
come in, of course, and lots of people took the
day off, right, But I was in a meeting. I
tell you something, and this is not like I don't
mean anything by it besides telling you the truth, which
(18:45):
is as I was actually very energized, you.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Know, Like I woke up that morning I was like, oh,
I see it's my turn. I've got to do something,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Like, I came into meetings that day, and the meetings
I was in were about building my business.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Right.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
So the business I've created is a hair company, hair
and beauty company.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
It's called Eve by Bose.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
It's centered on black women and women of color for
hair extensions and hair care. And the reason why I
felt so drawn to it was at one, I love hair, Okay,
I love bundles. Okay, what are we even doing? But
it's incredible to me that eighty percent of the consumer
base of hair extensions are black women or women of color,
but they're not centered in the conversation. The innovation is
(19:30):
not about them, The texture is not about them.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
You can go on Google.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Or wherever else and see fourteen million videos of how
to manipulate the hair extensions so they match women of
color or black women's textures. And I was like, well,
why do we have to do that? First of all,
I'm sick and tired of doing it. And so I
went to China, yes by myself, me six foot tall
and black, to the largest hair show in the world
(19:54):
in Guangzhou. Day one, I made a mistake I didn't
have interpreter. That was a problem. Day two I learned
I came as an interpreter so I could get the
information because the things I was asking were like, why
is the texture like this? Why do lace colors only
come in white? Why are they not brown? Why are
they not different shades? You see fency out here. They're
killing the game. Forty shades on air?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
What are we doing?
Speaker 4 (20:14):
And the answers were not that difficult, you know. It
was a choice that people were making. They were like,
oh no, it's possible, we just don't do it because
nobody really asked us to do it. And I was like, oh, okay,
so let me gather all the information. I'm simplifying a
lot of things. But it took many months and almost
eighteen months to build that. I eventually built a factory
in Ghana where I could then manufacture the product myself,
(20:37):
with black women and women.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Of color at the center of it.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
And so the day after inauguration, when I was sitting
there and everybody else was like, oh no, what is me?
Speaker 3 (20:44):
What are we going to do?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I was like, we got to move, we have to motivate,
we have to take the power. Like I don't care
who's sit in that house, like, we have to do it.
And so why would I Why would I cry? Why
would I mourn? When I have the power to do
something and I am still energized. So every time I
see a new stupid ass headline, oh Lord have mercy,
(21:08):
I mean, it annoys me for like three seconds, and
then it motivates me to.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Move, because what are we gonna do.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
You know, we're gonna sit around and wait four years
before we do something about this.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
No, we gotta motivate.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
And so for me, it's like, look, I'm taking every
opportunity in every room I'm in as the molecule that
changes matter to make things better for.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Me and for my community. Yes, and it any night,
come on you girl.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
It's like I feel like we're all gonna need and
ironically we'll have it. It'll be on the podcast. I'm like,
I need a recording of this just to be in
my in my little air pod when I'm having a
bad day, just walk around getting a Bose pep talk
in the house. You you you said something a while
back that I love so much. You said you are
never intimidated in spaces that you know other people pople
(22:00):
might not always think you.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Should be in oh girl. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
And when you talk about power, when you talk about motivation,
when you talk about being inspired to fix all of
it is really it feels to me like forward motion.
And so I want to know, is that innate for
you or do you think that's something you've learned through
your career, because as I mentioned earlier, the resume is unbelievable,
(22:26):
from you know, Apple Music to Ubert and Netflix. When
you think back on some of the first days in
some of those offices, yes, how do you walk in
with this kind of confidence?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Or is it something you learned in one of those
places and you've taken with you into rest.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
So it's a combination of things.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Right again, just back to the science of it all
and this time will do math. Okay, Yes, So each
of us that are sitting here, it took two sets
of DNA in order to create us. Right, you go
back like twelve generations, and that's four thousand people that
it took for you individual to sit here. And so
when I walk into a room, I'm like, oh, there's
(23:08):
four thousand people coming with me, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
That, like, my.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Individual journey is as important as anyone else's. And I
realized that that might sound Try it, and it might
sound like, oh, she's just talking, But it's like if
you actually believe that, if you truly put it into
your spirit, there is no room you walk into and
feel like an imposter. There's no table you sit at
and think, I don't belong here, because you do, why
(23:34):
the hell would you be there. I also believe in
my own destiny, you know, I believe that the steps
I take are meant to be.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
And the thing is that I also.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Have this belief about destiny, which is like it's not
just written and then it happens. It's like your forward motion,
your steps are actually what then create it and make
it come true. And so when I'm sitting at a table,
I am meant to be there. All the things in
my life have led me to that moment, and so
I have to show what in the fullness of myself,
with all the experiences I have, with my ideas, with
(24:05):
my opinions, and so part of it is innate and
that I understand math. And then I'm like, Okay, it
took a lot of people for me to get here,
and all these experiences for me to be in this room,
so I'm going to I'm actually going to show up,
like in the fullness of myself. And then through experience,
it has really been about urgency for me, you know.
(24:25):
So I said before that I'm a widow. My husband
died of cancer in twenty thirteen, so we're coming up
on twelve years, which is just absolutely incredible to me.
He died right before his forty fourth birthday, and one
of the most there's a lot to say about that experience,
but one of the most life changing moments was at
(24:46):
his funeral when my daughter and I are standing in
the receiving line, you know, people are finding out of
the church and shaking our hands and giving us hugs,
and people kept saying over and over and over, they
were like, oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
He died so young. There was so much left to do.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
And I remember feeling burdened by that thought and afraid
of that and being like, well, what happens. It was
like a fear that was in my spirit, like oh
my gosh, Like what if what if I'm not here
long enough to do the things I'm supposed to do,
or if I'm not here long enough to fulfill my destiny,
like what I'm afraid. But what changed for me was
(25:30):
the thought of urgency. And urgency isn't necessarily about speed,
you know. I realized that we're like, oh, we got something,
we must move fast.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
You know. It's not about speed. Urgency is about intention,
you know.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
It's about moving with intention, passion yes, and saying that like,
this is what I want to do right now, and
therefore nothing's going to stop me from doing it.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
That is urgent.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
And for me, it's like in my life, the way
that I've been able to overcome that very crippling fear
of leaving too soon is that I want my entire
life to feel as big as possible. In my book
and the epithet, I have a quote by Diane Ackerman
(26:11):
and i'll paraphrase it. I won't say it exactly, but
it says, I want to get to my end of
my life and not just have lived the length of it,
but to have lived the width of it, which is
so beautiful, you know, the thought that like, you're going
to live as wide as possible, and I challenge all
of us to do that. It's like, what is it
that you're dreaming of that you're thinking of even in
(26:33):
the small decisions that you make every single day that
are true to you, that you're not just living for
the expectation of other people. I don't care if it's
your mama, Okay, it's like, are you living for the
expectation of your own life? Because regardless of what time
I go, I want people to be like, God, damn, she.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Lived a big life. Godly, look at what that girl did. Yeah,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
And if I can do that, and if I can
live urgently with the purpose of trying to accomplish the
things that I want to accomplish in my life, girl,
then there's no room I walk into without feeling like
I belong there and I'm there to get what I'm
supposed to get.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I love that. I love that right for all of
our friends out here. If you have not read the book,
it's so beautiful. It is called The Urgent Life, My
Story of Love, Loss and Survival. And I was lucky
enough a few years ago to moderate one of the
book talks on it and had to keep myself from
crying the whole way through. So that's fine. You've been
(27:35):
so bold not only with joy and power, but with reality.
With pain, with sharing that story of loss, with talking
about what it's like to rebuild. And you know you
mentioned you're coming up on twelve years. Your daughter is
(27:55):
here again, taller than me. It's fine. It doesn't make
me feel old at all, ma'am. How do you think
about it? You know you two are so beautifully close,
you mom, at the level that you ceemo. Yes, you know,
(28:16):
and I admire it so much. And while I hate
that women are so often ask like how do you
balance at all? Because they never ask the men, I
don't want to know that. What I want to know
is with a sixteen year old, now, like, what are
some of the best lessons from career and motherhood combined?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yes, Like will you give us the cheat codes?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yes? I will.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I want a mom like you mom, you know.
Speaker 4 (28:43):
But okay, so this where we all sit up and
then we get a little closer, right, because I'm going
to tell you something and sometimes I get in trouble
for saying it, but I'm going to tell you that
you are the center of your life. And I recognize
that that sounds like a simple sentence, but if you
actually behave that way, it will dynamically change your life.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Meaning that you are the center of your life.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Now, Leel, my daughter will tell you that when I
ask her, or if somebody asking you, who's the most
important person in your life? And people expect that because
I'm a mother, I'm gonna be like, oh, my daughter, No,
I am the most important person in my life.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
And I realized that that's like, it sounds selfish.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
It's like, well, okay, fine, because who else am I
supposed to be filled with but myself. The truth of
the matter is that I've said this in another setting
and it got a lot of attention because I reminded
people that a lot of us, many of us here,
you don't have to identify yourself, but many of us
here are walking around consequences of somebody's unfulfilled dreams. We're
(29:47):
walking around with burdens of feeling like I've got to
do this because this person wasn't able to do it,
or this person sacrifice so that I could sit here.
And therefore you can't live your own life. You can't
center yourself. But it is a deeply life changing perspective
to say I'm at the center and I'm going to
(30:08):
do the things I promise you. Leyela is a much
more fulfilled human because I've centered myself, because I am
happy in my life, because I'm going after the things
I want to go after, because I'm ambitious. And the
thing is that she comes along because I respect her.
And even as early as four years old, when we
(30:29):
would have the conversation about like, Okay, mommy has to
go to Coopertino, which we lived in, that we live
here in LA and so I take a flight to
go to work and then come back. Therefore, sometimes I'd
miss the parent teacher, you know, conferences, or I'd miss
the basketball game she played, or I'd miss the practice.
(30:49):
But she knows that if she says to me, look,
this is really important to me and I need you
to be there, I will be there. But doesn't stop
me from being completely ambitious in what I do. And
so my hope is that as she grows and as
all of us develop, that you center yourself in your
life because you'll be a much more fulfilled person. And
therefore you can be a blessing not just to your children,
(31:10):
to the community that you're in, into the boardrooms that
you're in, because you'll have the confidence of knowing that
I'm here because I want to be better. I want
to be great, And if you center yourself truly, it
is a revolutionary act, and so we should do that
more often.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yes, we'll be back in just a minute after a
few words from our favorite sponsors. One of the things
I think is shifting most for our generation in particular,
is that we understand if we don't write our own
permission slips, nobody else is going to do it. And
(31:47):
when you become you know, a parent, a partner, a
step parent, whatever version it is, if they don't see
you write a permission slip for yourself, how are they
supposed to learn to do it for them?
Speaker 4 (31:58):
So what I'm saying, look, my hope is that Leyelle
walks into every room that she's in and knows that
she's the most important person. Now, look, that doesn't mean
necessarily that you're walking around arrogant and like dismissing everybody's thought.
But the idea that you walk in self confidently is
a game changer because how many of us have also
been the victim of somebody's insecurity? Since I see you, okay,
(32:22):
it's like everybody in here has, And imagine if that
person had been confident about their own presence had been
satisfied in what they're doing in their life, that they
would not have treated you the way that you're treated.
And so for me, it's like, look, I'm passing on
this belief system not because I want to raise an asshole,
but because I want to make sure that she is
(32:44):
the most fulfilled person she can be so the world
can see her for the fullness of herself, and so
that she can be.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
In every room and be dynamic in it and change it.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yeah, that's the human I want to raise.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
And one of the things I love for us too.
The lessons I learned from the women in my life
watching them be incredible parents, watching them do this work
differently than any of our parents had the tools to do.
Is not only do I get to see you parent well,
(33:17):
but I watch you reparent yourselves. I get reparented by
watching the women in my life parent well. Heal, you know,
I realize, Oh, I don't need to carry this thing
that somebody put in my backpack when I was a
kid that I never went in and dumped in the garbage,
like I'm gonna put this down. Who's even is this?
(33:39):
And so I think there's a really there's a really
special moment that can happen for them, the ones who
come after us. But it goes the other way, and
it kind of heals us in the versions of us
before today as well, And it's those are the conversations
I want to be having with badass women. There are
parents that I know. I'm like, please stop asking her
(34:01):
how she schedules her day and ask her like how
she's putting.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
But that's the whole point is that, like, if you
are centered in your life and therefore fulfilled, balance doesn't
become a question. You don't start to wonder like, oh
I should do this more or do this less, or
how am I going to accomplish this? And how am
I going to make sure this person feels comfortable. It's
like the balance comes because you've censered yourself and therefore
you know your priorities and you're going to act on those,
and therefore you're happier. You don't so when people ask, oh,
(34:30):
how do you do it all, I'm like, because I've
centered myself and what I want to do, and so
therefore it's like you have.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
A to do list? Right?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Most of us do, and girl, you know that sometimes
you just don't do the things at the bottom. They
just keep going to the next day and the next
day and the next day because you don't want to
do it.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Well, imagine the easiest thing that you've already done at
the top. So you can start by checking something off.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Well, here's what I said. Here's the revolutionary thing I said.
I said, just take it off the list.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Don't do it. Why do you need to do it?
Speaker 4 (34:57):
If there's something so terrible that you keep putting it off,
then you need to take it off your list. Actually
take it off the list, like figure out another way
for somebody else to do it, Like they say, get
somebody else do it.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
If you can do that, it changes your life dynamically
because then you're excited about the things. Like my list
of things that I have to do today are all
things I actually want to do. And that's how I
balance because I'm excited about doing that. You know, when
you don't want to do something, it takes you forever
to do it. You know, I'm a natural procrastinator. I'll
oh man, I'll be the one. I won't even look.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Our whole generation of undiagnosed women with ADHD give me
a break. Procrastination is my spiritual I'm I'm like, I
have a deadline. Do you need me to come over
and color coordinate your closet for you?
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I will look.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
And first of all, we cannot get dressed in fifteen minutes, okay,
So I don't know why you're sitting on their couch.
No one that's just supposed to leave him in twenty
and you're still sitting there, okay, because none of.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Us can do it. So I don't know why we
sit around and wait.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
But the truth of the matter is that when you're
really excited about something, you don't even have to like
think about it. You want to do it right, you
want to get into it, you want to accomplish a thing.
And so I'm like, look, if you have a to
do list and there are things on there that have
moved so many times that you don't even remember when
you first put it on your list, get rid of it,
Like it's really that simple. Find somebody else do it,
(36:16):
and that way you don't have to worry.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
It's like the anxiety inducing cleanup that comes with closing
all the open tabs on your computer. Yes, exactly one
day I was like, what if I just quit Safari,
I'm not looking at it anyway. You're just gonna be gone.
And then I'm going to open my computer and go,
well that looks nice instead of uh oh, there's two
(36:40):
tabs I just closed, Safari. Click Now that might be
a lesson from this whole conversation. Close, Safari, you have you.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
That is the lesson today in every capacity, I'm going.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
To title the episode of this podcast. You have a
permission slip to close your tabs.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
Yes, close your tabs. That's what it is in every
aspect of But in.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Your life you keep opening new cool ones. Yes, and
I mean yes, but you know you you ran every
every corporate world. Then you took time to write your
book and then in a move no one expected, you
were like, yeah, I'll be a real housewife. I was like,
(37:21):
what I mean? And you're so good? But can I
ask a question? And I don't mean this to be judgy,
I just want to like say an observation, because genuinely,
I was like, isn't that the show where like all
the women yell at each other, Like Bose is not
a yeller. She is a cheerleader. She is like a teammate,
I don't think I get it. So then I decided
(37:42):
to tune in to watch you, and I was like, Oh,
she's changing the vibe of a whole industry. Is that
a conscious goal for you?
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Oh, say more everything, because.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Again, it just goes back to the idea of being
a molecule. Right, matter exists, You're right, the understanding of
what this franchise and how these women behave is a
known matter.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
But me coming in, I'm my own molecule.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
I do not have to subscribe to the ways in
which the matter has been because I'm there. I am
that important, and I wish all of us would believe
that of ourselves. And so for me, as I contemplated
what I wanted to do next and how this opportunity
could be beneficial to me as well as being able
to put out a new idea or a new concept
(38:30):
of how women can be, I was like, oh, hell yeah,
because where are the ones who are self made, who
get up and go to work, you know, who build
something themselves. We're the ones who have conflict but understand
how to resolve them as adults and not yell and
scream and be ridiculous. We're the ones who support each
other through the really hard times. Where's the truth about
(38:51):
the mess of our lives? Where it's like, look, not
everything is tied up in a bow. And I recognize that, Yes,
my resume looks the way it looks, and people known
me for you know what I've done in the business world,
but you don't know what I'm like at home. And
so why not open the door so that you can
see a different way of being? And so for me,
I feel like there's opportunity for women who have the
(39:14):
same type of ideal, not necessarily living the same life,
not necessarily even having the same politics or the same
religion or the same belief systems, but that we can
have a more elevated and sophisticated way of entertaining each
other by actually showing what this kind of elevated experience
looks like. And the last thing I'll say about that,
how many of you think Sofia would make a great housewife?
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Right?
Speaker 4 (39:41):
I mean, it totally makes sense. I wrote her an
email or a text message in April. I'm telling all
your business. I wrote her a text messag April. I
was like, hey, I need to ask you a controversial question.
She knew what I was going to ask her. She
never responded.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
I'm telling yesterday.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
When she was like, oh, how did I miss this
text message in April telling you about housewives?
Speaker 3 (39:59):
That's what I was telling you.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I meant well to be clear, first of all, I
am a terrible text her. So I go to text
her and I'm like, oh my god, I'm so excited
to get to see you tomorrow. I can't wait. And
then I go controversial question April, and then I'm like, wow,
we really talk more in group chats than we do
the way clearly and me, I'm like, girl, what's the
controversial question? I love a controversial question. She's like, I
(40:23):
was trying to.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Get you on the show exactly because I'm just like,
you know, we need more women who are self possessed,
who enjoy their relationships with other women, who understand conflict
and drama, not because they want to put on a spectacle,
but because that's just what life is, and are unafraid
to talk about the hard stuff, are unafraid to show
(40:45):
the warts in all of their lives because we are
all mirroring what we see well.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
And the interesting thing I'm realizing watching your journey there is.
What you're doing is you're modeling a healthier way. Yes,
and like, isn't that what we're all trying to do
all day? Anyway? I'm like, get through the time that
passes and like it exactly. Just want to like my life,
don't you.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
That's the whole point.
Speaker 4 (41:07):
But I also think that like having a platform where
we show the relationships between women and the different ways
that the relationships are is really important. I actually think
like showing the more healthy way of being is really important.
And that's no shade to anybody who's come before. I
just think it's time for revolution.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
I love that, and that show has led to your
next show. Yes, girl, you guys, this woman just got
a casual call from Jimmy Fallon. Please tell the people
what's coming. I am so excited about it now.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
So now here's what's now. Look at look at God.
I'm gonna tell you something, Okay.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
So the idea of like walking in your purpose and
your destiny regardless of what other people think of you
is actually my testimony because you will not believe, or
you probably will believe the number of people who are like,
why would you go on this show Housewives when you
have such an amazing career. You are a corporate batty,
You're a Hall of fame, Like, why would you do that?
You were ruined your reputation. And I was like, I
have an idea. I'm gonna go anyway. And I went
(42:07):
and in the literally the first episode, I show up
in my glorious gown, okay, because a girl's got a sleigh,
all right, And I run through my resume because I
wanted them to all know who they were dealing with,
you know what I'm saying, and I assert my power.
And what I didn't know is that Jimmy Fallon and
his wife Nancy were watching the show and our fans,
and Jimmy had sold an idea to NBC for a
(42:31):
reality competition that centered marketing, so think about like Shark
Tank or Project Runway, but for marketing people.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
And he had interviewed a bunch.
Speaker 4 (42:41):
Of cmos who had great resumes but not the personality.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
They were boring okay.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
And then he saw me on Healthwives and I ran
down my resume and he was like, oh my god,
I found her. And so his people called my people
and then we got on the phone and within ten
minutes we had agreed that we were going to film
a new show together. It's called On Brand. It launches
in September, premieres on NBC, and it's a magical show
(43:10):
because I love the idea that beautiful, creative ideas can
come from anywhere. You know, there are contestants on the
show who are There's one who's like a real estate agent.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
There's one who's a swim instructor.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
There's one who's a marketing professor, like so he actually
academically understands the business. But it's wonderful because every week
a new brand comes, gives a brief, and then the
contestants have to come up with creative ideas.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
And what's amazing is that, like, I cannot tell.
Speaker 4 (43:35):
You the number of people that when you know I
worked at Uber, I worked at PEPSI, I worked at Apple,
would like, you know, tag me in a comment or
like ping me, or god forbid, I was in an
airport somebody recognized me and would be like, I have
an idea for a new soda, I have an idea
for a new way, for a new tech idea. I
have a new idea for an Apple product. And I'm like, Okay,
(43:56):
fantastic now I have a show and people can do
that and it's actually entertaining, and so for me, it's
an exciting new chapter in my life. And to be
able to do that and marry my marketing expertise with
an entertaining show and Jimmy Fallon is incredible. I mean,
just thought of the earth guys, sweetest oh, an amazing
(44:17):
human being who really really cares and is excited about
life and excited about ideas, and so it is really
a pleasure to agree with him.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Obviously we get to the show in September, but that
feels long. I want to know, and maybe it's a
crazy question to ask, but I know there's so many
business owners in this audience. Is there a piece of
marketing advice or brand advice? Yes, that you think is
the most important thing? Yes, for a business owner to know?
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Absolutely? Okay again, lean in everybody, all right, We're going
to talk about this because it is a hard thing
to do and it's a hard team to believe. Which
is that most of us create because we see a
need in the market and we want to fill the space.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Right.
Speaker 4 (45:03):
The challenge is that we're too wide, you know. So
the idea that marketing or the thing that you've created
needs to apply to everyone is a lie because there
are a bulls eye, and so you need a bullseye target,
secondary target, tertiary target. Right now, the bulls eye is
where all the magic is. And guess what it's actually you.
(45:23):
So I recognize that we make something and we're like, oh,
but I want to get to the widest audience possible. No,
the idea is that they actually need to fall in love.
And so consider that your product, your idea, is a
human and that human is based on you, and get
the people to fall in love with that. That's how
you actually make the change. And so in every company
I've been in, whether it has been as big as
(45:46):
Uber or even in creating eve by Bo's, it's like
the detail of what I'm doing has me in it.
The ideas are born from this brain, from this heart,
from these experiences. And so the one piece of marketing
advice I'll give you is that you need to make
your target small and it needs to be centered on you.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
You're welcome marketing class.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Exactly, I'm like, welcome to my lectures here. Okay, we
are coming up on time. I want to know I
can't imagine you adding anything else to the list, but
I have a feeling you will when you look out
at the rest of your summer, the rest of your
twenty twenty five, when you think about what more you want, yes,
(46:39):
or what you're looking forward to? Yeah, what's the center
that feels like you're work in progress?
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Okay, So here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
Oftentimes people ask me, like, you know, who I'm inspired by,
and they think it's going to be an answer like
my mother or something like that, and my mom, but
she's not it.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
I'm it. The eighty year old version of me is
who I'm inspired by.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
The woman who's going to be sitting there and being
like child, Let me tell you about the story, let
me tell you what I did. That's the person I'm
working for, the person that I am trying to impress,
because everything that I do has to have that level
of excitement. And so I don't have a five year
plan or a ten year plan. You know, people always
say like, oh, well, you've got to make a plan
to hit you know, the target. The truth of the
(47:28):
matter is that it is more ethereal than that. You know,
this existence that we have is not built on the
sequential order of how we think the universe exists. It
is more magical than that. And so you have to
open yourself up to the possibilities of what is going
to come for you, and you have to move boldly
(47:49):
in that direction. And so ten years ago when I
met you, could I have imagined that I'd be a
real housewife and then I'd have a show with Jimmy Fallon.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Yeah, But the truth is that I didn't have a
ten year plan which told me, Okay, by that time,
you need to be CEO of this company and blah blah,
blah blah. I left myself open to the possibilities. I mean,
such a better place than what I would have imagined.
And I also this is when I get through through.
But you know, I believe in the power of God,
you know, and I believe that the destiny that I
(48:20):
have is written in a way that is unimaginable to me.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
So why would I think that I could orchestrate it.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
My job is to walk by faith, and that's what
I do every single day. So people look at my
resume or say, oh my gosh, do you do such
big things or how do these amazing opportunities come, and
I'm like, because I'm walking by faith, I'm walking in
the direction, and I am not encumbered by a plan
that I have because my imagination is way too small
for that. Right.
Speaker 1 (48:49):
You always hear people talk about, oh, beyond your wildest dreams. Yeah,
and someone said to me years ago, make sure your
wildest dreams aren't a box you put your yourself in.
Look and absolutely, look where we are today. I'm so
happy to know you. I love you. Thank you for
coming and.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
Inspiring young right, thank you so much for having me.
I appreciate it, and I wish you all a very
urgent life. If that's the one thing that you can
take away from this is center yourself in your life.
Make sure you are urgent about the things that you're doing,
and make sure that you're doing it for you and
not the expectation of anyone else.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
God bless you.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Thank you both.
Hosts And Creators
Bethany Joy Lenz
Sophia Bush
Robert Buckley
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