October 8, 2025 • 56 mins
Hulu’s acclaimed limited series "The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox" pushed Grace Van Patten to her limits—learning Italian in weeks, embodying Amanda’s story, and carrying insights from both Knox herself and producer Monica Lewinsky that changed her beyond the role.
Grace opens up about the pivotal gap year that made her choose acting for good and the unexpected lessons she’s still trying to apply off-screen. Plus, with "Tell Me Lies" season 3 filming now, Grace hints at what makes this chapter of her career both thrilling and bittersweet.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
back to Work in Progress friends. This week we have
someone I am elated to talk to. As you all
(00:22):
know from our wonderful episode with Amanda Knox, I am
fascinated with her story, and her story has come to
life on Hulu with The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox,
which is dominating the conversation right now and certainly expanding
the already impressive reach of its star, Grace Van Patten.
(00:45):
Grace was raised by two creative parents and quickly established
her own artistic identity and voice. She has worked with
incredible visionaries like Noah Bombach and Nicole Kidman. Her Hulu
series Tell Me Lies is on its way back to
us for its third season and promises to be even
more intense. But my goodness, the intensity of this role.
(01:10):
Grace plays Amanda Knox with such a commitment to the
mess of it all, the fear, the anxiety, the trauma
frankly of what it's like to be wrongly accused of
a heinous crime, and the show really leans into investigating perception, justice,
(01:31):
and identity. It's the kind of layered storytelling that as
an observer I would say has become Grace's signature. She
gravitates toward complex characters, she amplifies women's voices, and she
wants to be part of roles that challenge the way
society treats us. She is exactly the kind of artist
(01:52):
I am thrilled to sit down with and chat with today.
Let's dive in with Grace Van Patten. Hi, welcome to
the show.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I'm so thrilled that you're here. I'm so excited about
the project. But before we jump into all the things
happening this week, in terms for our friends at home
of when we're recording, I actually want to go backwards
because I feel like audiences when you're promoting something, or
you know you're a few years into a series like
(02:33):
you are, they know what you've been up to. But
I'm always really curious about where people come from, and
so I like to ask people from this vantage point
that you're at today, if you got to go back
and at school or on the playground to hang out
with your eight year old self, do you think you
would see the woman you are today in her? And
(02:57):
do you think she would be so amped to find
out what you're up to as an adult.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
That makes me want to cry. That's so cute. Yeah,
I think she'd be amped. I think she'd be really excited.
I don't know if she saw all of this in
store for her, but she was a very curious kid
and that has turned into a curious adult, so we've
(03:23):
maintained that. Yeah, it is crazy to think about. Yeah,
and I had no like acting was something that I
enjoyed so much as a kid, just in like school
plays and acting classes. But it's something I never saw
(03:45):
as a career. And I think that's because I didn't
have as much faith in myself and I saw my
dad's a director. I saw how unpredictable it was and
how I didn't see just the glamorous side of it.
So it took me a really long time to think
that I could do it, that I was even capable
(04:06):
of it. So it's interesting to think of me as
a kid and the idea I had of like something
I love but never thought of pursuing as a job.
And how lucky I am that those two things can
coincide and I get to do what I love as
a job. Totally so cool.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I think it's also really interesting because people assume if
you have any connection to the industry that it's going
to be so easy for you, and you're like, no, no.
The people who have connections to the industry often know
how they see that absolutely what is and like that
it's not steady in any way, that it's not something
you can count on totally. You know. I grew up
(04:49):
my dad is also an artist. He's a photographer, and
I always planned on going to medical school really and
then I had an arts requirement. My best friend was
like a quintessential theater kid, always singing in vibrato in
the hall. It was like doing show tunes and I
was like, I love you, but that's not my thing.
I like a musical, but I don't know that I
(05:09):
would be in a Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And when I.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Did a play and realized how much bigger the world
of theater was, and I decided to shift my career
path into the arts. My parents were like, what are
you thinking? You see how this is and it's awful.
But I think when you're young enough you kind of go.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
What why not? Maybe because it's fun and it's like
playing dress up as a job. Of course that sounds appealing.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
It's interesting to me that I always land on kind
of what were you up to it? Eight or nine? Yeah,
because didn't you do the Sopranos when you were eight?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I did? I did. I was exactly eight. And it's
a really funny thing because like a couple of years ago,
I don't know, I just came up in conversation with
my dad like if my dad and I have ever
worked together, and we both like immediately said no, because
we neither of us remembered that. It was because in
(06:11):
my memory, I was eight, I was on set and
I thought my dad was just like my dad on set,
like telling me what to do as opposed to being
the director of and he just he directed so many
episodes and I had like two lines and I think
I was in two episodes and he did one of them.
(06:33):
So I just we you didn't really yeah, And I
just thought he was like my dad hanging out on
set totally. But that was a I that experience, Like
I still get that fit that because I was my
first I told my dad my parents like I want
to act, and they're like okay, and I kept I
(06:55):
kept pushing them and pushing them, and my Dad's like,
you can audition. That's sure, you can audition, and like,
I'll never forget that feeling of walking into Steiner Studios
and my mom was just like let me go, and
I signed in and I'm like waiting, waiting in the
waiting room and feeling those like nervous butterflies and walking
(07:18):
in and my dad's like in the back row, crossing
his leg and he's like, I'm not getting like I'm
not getting involved. Yeah I'm not. And that's still how
I feel walking in. It's like, but it's the excitement.
It's auditionings horrible, it's so scary, but it's it's like,
I don't know, it's what keeps you on your toes. Yeah, yeah,
(07:40):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Do you think because because I get what you're saying,
it's it's actually so normal, especially when you grow up
on the crew side of things. I would imagine it
would probably be pretty crazy to grow up with a
parent who was like a.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Kind of movie Yeah yeah, yeah, for like that would
be now.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
But when you grow up and a parent is crewe
like camera directing, set deck whatever, you see the other
side of it. Do you feel like you knew you
were in a creative household because your parents were in
the arts or does that sort of register for you
(08:22):
more now as a creative adult.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, I definitely knew that it was a creative household.
My dad is such a creative, artistic soul and my
mom is too, and they're they're very they're very open
curious people and always like always pushed us to find
(08:48):
that part within ourselves. I'm one of three sisters, the
oldest of three sisters, and they always encouraged us to
like find our form of expression whatever that may be.
And for me it was acting and sports and whole
you know, those are the bookends of totally. So it
(09:13):
definitely felt like that. And my dad, like we didn't
grow up talking about the business a lot, it was
not dinner table talk, but whenever he did, it was
it was purely out of passion. Like I saw him
choose things and choose jobs that he was really passionate
(09:35):
about and felt connected to, which was so inspiring to me.
Like not as a kid, I didn't know that that
was going to be inspiring, but now I am so
inspired by that mentality and really really try and do
that with myself. Now is just like jump into things
that I know, I really feel a certain way about
(10:00):
because that's that's what's most fulfilling to me totally.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
And I think when you do this, when you're part
of the sort of traveling circus and you have to
pick up your life and move to a random place
and do these crazy hours and sometimes you're on a
project that's I don't know, all night shoots, it's.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Like, yeah, you have to love it. You have to.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
To navigate the sort of weird technical parts of it.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Are your sister's also really artistic or does everyone kind
of have their own.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
They're all really creative. Yeah. My middle sister is also
an actor and she's in the show with me. She
plays my sister in the Amanda Knox Show. And my
other sister's only fourteen and she is really into basketball
and currently wants to be in the WNBA. So I'm
(10:53):
like just going, we got to get it. I want
to be at courtside.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It's so fun. Do you go to the Liberty game?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
All the time, so fun.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
All the Time's so fun. I'm such a basketball and
soccer fan. And yes, I don't know, it's interesting because
you were an athlete and an artist. I was like
the asthmatic kid who clearly was never going to keep up.
When all the soccer players started to get really good,
I was like, and I'm out, Like I don't have
the lung capacity to run that fab And now I
(11:26):
literally refuse to run unless I'm being chased.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Oh, it's usually I can't run. I just can't. It's
not for me. I find no joy.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
But it's interesting that you guys, you figured out something
that's almost like somatic, right, being an actor, being a dancer,
being an athlete, it requires such a relationship to your
own body.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
True, that's kind of cool that your little sisters.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Rushing.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
She is like, she's so good. Oh, I love that
she's going to like, yeah, I could talk about her forever.
She's I love her so much.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Is she in that sort of timeline like you were,
because I know you had to choose between a sports
school and yes, yes, when you were picking a high school.
She's just she's going sports going. Wow, she has shown
interest in acting, but.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I can't tell. I can't tell yet if it's like
you do it, but I know it so cool.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Do you feel like looking back, you you know how
you made that decision, because it's a crazy thing to
think about. And maybe I'm reflecting on this because I'm
thinking about it for myself too. To go home and
say to my parents, just kidding, I'm not going to
medical school. I'm going to go in the THEATA. They
were like, what do you mean for you to make
(12:52):
that choice and say, Okay, if I have to give
something up, I'm really going to better myself and I'm
going to do this. Do you feel like you knew
where that came from or do you remember the day
that you made the decision.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I feel like I never made the decision. Really. I
feel like I was young enough and didn't feel like
I was giving something up. It felt like I was
just going for something that I knew I was interested
in and didn't I couldn't. I didn't know where it
(13:29):
could go, or where it was going, or where I
even wanted it to go. It was kind of I
graduated high school, I didn't know like I spent I
went to La Guardia and studied it for four years,
so I didn't know what life was out. Life was
like without it, you know, without studying it every day. Yes,
(13:49):
it's like a conservatory. You're doing it half your day
every single day for four years. So I really wanted
to see how I felt about it without doing it
every day, without being surrounded by actors, And so I
took a gap year and I took classes in other
(14:10):
things that I was interested in, like criminal psychology and philosophy,
and just like trying to see if anything sparked my
interest to I don't know, divert even though I knew
acting was, it was in there. And then within that
year is when I met my manager, who just approached
me at a birthday party, and when she signed me.
(14:33):
I think that was the first moment where I was like,
I think it took somebody believing in me to be like, Okay, okay,
maybe maybe it's time I can try this and go
for it in some type of real way. And then
that's kind of when it all started.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Oh that's so exciting. Yeah, we'll be back in just
a minute. But here's a word from our sponsors. What
is your relationship like to New York now? Because you
grew up here, you went to your conservatory here, Like,
(15:12):
what what's your experience with the city now as an
adult who's a working actor and his in and out
all the time.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I love it Yeah, it's magic to me.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It's like I only left because if I didn't, I'd
be here my whole life. And I wanted just some
sort of change, you know. I wanted to experience something
else and something new. That's that's the only reason. Because
I find it so inspiring and so phrenetic, and so yeah,
(15:46):
it's just magic.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
It's such an interesting place because I feel like the
city has its own kind of rhythm and it's almost
like jumping in a river and you just figure out
where it's going to take you.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Totally. I feel about life too, because I think I
grew up here. I'm like, are you gonna happen to
It's like, yeah, exactly, very spontaneous. You don't know what
to expect, you don't know what's around the corner, and
that's kind of how I lived my life.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Now thinking about things that are happening in your world. Obviously,
we're going to get to the Amanda Knox story, which
I'm so excited to talk to you about too, but
we can't talk about now without also touching on Nine
Perfect Strangers because it was so phenomenal and I thought
about there was a moment I remember watching the show.
(16:40):
One of my best friends worked on it with her boss,
and we talked so much about what that journey was like,
particularly when everyone was filming and the world.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Was shutting the dogs.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
We're so crazy. And I had this moment watching an episode,
watching one of your scenes, and it was like some
part of me that's in me from my first year
going on location in North Carolina and like being away
from everyone I knew and working on my first show
(17:11):
was like, oh my god, she's also a baby, but
like she's a baby on set with Nicole Kidman. What
is her experience? Is she okay? Did she have fun?
I'm telling you, it's such like a surreal thing.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Oh, that's so interesting. Could feel it and you're like,
I've been like the girl.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Playing the teenager in me, right, teenager in you?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
That's so funny that, Yeah, you're not wrong. I was definitely.
It was like it was such a beautiful experience and
such a scary experience at the same time. And that's
only because I think if the state of the world
was different, it'd be a lot more positive, sure in
terms of like mental state. Yeah, the scary part about
(17:58):
it was just that I had to go to Australia
for six months, and I knew that I couldn't leave
and that no one could visit me, and so the
anticipation of going was the was the scariest part to me.
Once I got there, and once everyone was so nice
and like, because we all only had each other, it
(18:18):
was such a beautiful bond between all of us. That's
so different than any other job I've been on when
people have their people around or their families or whatever
it is. And this was really special for that reason.
But yeah, it can get It can get really lonely,
for sure, and any job, like.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
For you being essentially the kid there, I mean you're
going to work with Nicole Kidman and Laissa McCarthy and
Bobby and all these people, like like they really were
wonderful mentors for you. I do.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I really would just like sit there and watch all
of them, all these personalities, all like with seemingly a
different approach to it, like I because it was such
an ensemble and all of these amazing people were around me,
it was such a good like I had a vignette
into like all of these different types of approaches and
(19:19):
processes and like personalities. Yeah, completely and all different parts
to Like, it was just it was so fun to
watch and in the most beautiful, beautiful place ever in
Byron Bay, and there was no COVID there, so it
(19:42):
was like a weird I was so disconnected from what
was going on too, well, because you guys were in
a bubble, complete bubble, and no one.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Coming in or out. So once they knew no one
in the bubble wasn't was sick.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It was and just no one was sick one and
no one in like all of Byron but the whole
town was. It was completely COVID free. What a trip.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So what were you guys doing since you couldn't go anywhere?
Like did you just play every board game under the sun?
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah? We played board games a lot of All of
the like younger people in the cast lived in this
row of townhouses, so we were just kind of like
felt like friends. Yeah, Like we were just like hopping
around each other's homes and it was so great. I
met a bunch of people there, like from the town,
just like going to coffee shops and going to the beach,
(20:32):
and it was such like a welcoming little community. So
it was really it was a really And then I
stayed because COVID was still so bad in America and
Australia was like COVID free. I stayed in Australia for
three more months after shooting and lived in a van
for a month, and like traveled down the coast and
it was it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, okay, Now, as the person who is an adult
who thinks about all of the children in my life,
how did your parents to feel like when you called
and you said, hey, mom, I'm gonna live in a van,
what was the response there?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I was I was with my boyfriend at the time,
so I wasn't alone. I wasn't like alone on the road.
So they felt comforted by that.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I watched like a too much true crime to not
oh my god, panic hearing that. But you're here, so
obviously you're saying.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
No, I'm fine. I was fine. Okay, it felt like
a very safe, safe place. But but alone, no, that
would be I don't.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Think I could do it, like I am such a
I just have a spirit crush on Tracy Ellis Ross.
I'm obsessed with her everything from like democratic advocacy to
her fashion. She's one of my favorite people to hang
out around. But she travels alone all the time, and
I'm like, girl.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Have you have you never gone anywhere alone, like taken
a little solo trip anywhere? Not for not that far.
I guess it's bright for me.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Like, sure, you know I go places alone all the time,
but it's usually.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
For work, right, which is a different I'll have a day.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, but I've never packed up two suitcases and like
I'm going backpacked for three weeks solo.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, I've always been curious. I'm saying I've taken like
obviously work and then if I'm like, I've taken weekend
trips alone and because I'll tack it on to the
end of something, yeah, exactly, exactly, but right to make
the decision and like plan an itinerary for a vacation solo. Yeah,
(22:27):
I've never done very inspired by it. Me too, Scared
me too, I'd be Yeah, I hope I do it
at some point in my life.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Okay, we're starting the accountability group. Yeah, okay, Like where
are you going? Where you going by the end of
twenty twenty five?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Deal?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
How are things going? Speaking of you know, many seasons
of television, How is everything going with? Tell me lies
you're going into season.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Three, or you just finished We're in the middle of
season three.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
You're in the middle.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, yeah, we're we have like a month left of shooting.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
And are you still loving it?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I am. It's like, oh my gosh, I could talk
to you about this forever. By the way, I started
watching One Tree Hill as like Cress No, Like I
was like, oh my god, like this that was the
show of the time. Yes, I was watching One Tree Hill.
I was watching Oh see yeah, and you're so fuck
(23:21):
You're so good, You're I had so much. I'm still
watching it, like I just started this. See great.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
It's like one hundred and eighty seven hours of television.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And I'm gonna watch it all. Oh boy, and I'm
gonna reach out to you and tell you everything. Go
any time.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Wait, where are you in my show? Since you're three
years into your show?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
No, I just season three. I just I'm just starting
One Tree Hill. Oh my goodness. So when I kind
of I was coming here, I'm like, oh my god,
I wish I had finished it all. But to ask
you a million questions, so much about but yeah, so
much to talk about. How many seasons was that nine?
How old are you?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
What was the age I had been twenty one for
I think two weeks maybe when I moved to Wilmington.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And I remember literally getting there and being like, I
can go into a bar like with my coworkers. This
is so weird.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Whoa like feeling like a kid but knowing you were
able to do adult things.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
But it was also really weird for me because I
went to an all girls, like very nerdy academic, like
a prep school, but not one of those like old
money prep schools. It just happened to be an all
girls school that wanted to make sure you got into
a good college. And so I had gone from there
(24:45):
to being a philanthropy chair at USC, like in the
Greek life system. And then of course I was like
the charity check.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Did you go to college?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
And I did three years there? Oh my god, Because
by then I knew I want to to act, and
I was planning on going away to a conservatory. And
I had met my manager or my senior year in
high school, I had done a play that was very
controversial and wound up with this like little write up
in the La Times. She came to see it signed
me and was like, if you really want to be
(25:18):
an actor? You can't leave LA. I auditioned for the
BFA program at USC and got in, and so I
stayed Wow, And then I almost didn't take One Tree
Hill because I didn't want to miss my senior year
in college because it felt so it felt like all
the movies I grew up on because I hadn't had
that high school experience. So then I get to Wilmington
and I have to play a boy crazy, most popular
(25:42):
girl in school, who's the head of the cheer team.
I've never cheered. I didn't go to school with boys.
There were fifty five of us in my entire grade.
There was no popularity contest, like we were losers.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Oh my friends and I were like.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
The awkward theater camp kids. And I had to like
go b Brooks Davis and I was like, Okay, I
guess I can pretend I would have.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Never guessed that you're so natural and it fit, like,
Oh my god, you're so say that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
When we started rewatching the show for Drama Queen's other podcast,
which was our COVID project, I literally for the first
five episodes was like, oh my god, I need to
step trying so hard. I'm trying so hard to like
be the cool girl, and eventually I think I settled
into it. Oh my god, it's crazy to me that
that's the part I got hired for because that was
(26:33):
your first job. That was my first regular gig.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I had been working a little bit, but that was
my first like series regular job.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
That's crazy and what like to make that decision and
think about the other pass and think about crazy. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's nine years. I can imagine three years now.
It feels like nine and so I can't imagine, do
you know, because.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Streaming is so different. I feel like most shows go
max three or four seasons.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, yeah, if you we don't know yet, if you.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Find out at the end of every year like we
used to, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, I mean like it feels like it's coming to like,
it feels like that would be the appropriate thing to
kind of have this have it three, but it's so
good we don't want to know. It'd be so bittersweet.
It really would be like, Yeah, the cast, we are
all so close, like we are family, Like they are
(27:33):
some of my best friends, and I feel so like,
like I cannot imagine if we didn't get along and
for that i'd be sad, like a group of friends
working together like special. It just actually feels it's just
(27:55):
so fun. It's so fun but also nice to like
move on.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
How did that job come your way? Was it one
of a million things you were going out for and
just trying to figure out?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, it was. I remember first meeting with Megan, the showrunner,
and hearing about it and just thinking it was so
I just love watching those types of things, toxic relationships,
and I just blew Valentine's one of my favorite movies. Yeah,
Urban Cowboy. It's like painful, but it's like exciting too,
(28:32):
and or at least I found movies like that exciting.
But maybe it's just because I found the acting exciting,
like people just kind of losing their mind.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Totally because it feels dangerous.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, it feels dangerous and free, yes, yes, acting wise,
like it feels like you could just kind of go crazy.
And I thought this this show was such a cool
way to show it within young people in a serious way,
Like it takes these young people's feelings so seriously, which
(29:06):
I had never seen before.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
It's so refreshing.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It's like we have to stop treating young people like
they're stupid.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I hate when we treat audiences like they're stupid. And
I hate when we treat characters like they're stupid.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, like young dumb Yeah yeah, yeah totally. I mean
these characters are they might be doing really stupid thing.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, that's just part of growing up. We'll be back
in just a minute after a few words from our
favorite sponsors. I mean, talking about feeling like you could
lose your mind in a role, talk to me about
playing Amanda Knox. Where did this even begin? And also,
(29:52):
you know, I remember that trial. I remember when this
was happening. I don't remember if I was in high
school or college, but I remember it being everywhere in
the media. Obviously, this is pre social media, all of
the sort of slew thing people can do now. There
were no amateur crime solvers things out. The media could
(30:17):
spin stories, They could make you think anything about anyone
that they wanted to. And her story was so insane, insane,
And now, as an adult, not only to have seen
what's happened with her story and to know she was
wrongfully convicted, to know there was literally not a shred
(30:40):
of evidence that she was anywhere near this crime and
to realize what they said about her.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
What was it like for you?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Because you had to go back and I would imagine,
read it, watch it, learn it, pay me a picture.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Of this shocking because I was really young when it
all happened, So I wasn't you know, I didn't have
a memory of the headlines and the controversy of it,
but I knew her name, like that name was so
engraved in my head for some reason. I don't know,
(31:20):
But I do remember watching the Netflix documentary in twenty
fifteen or twenty sixteen when it came out, and that
was that was around the time I had started acting professionally,
and I have a vivid memory of calling my agents
at the time saying I need to play her. No,
it was I don't know why I thought. I was
(31:42):
so intrigued by this story and by her like I
thought she was such an individual person and for someone
being scrutinized by her behavior so much, I'm like what what?
I was just so fascinated by it. So this was
a crazy, crazy, full circle, weird universal I don't know,
(32:04):
I don't know, crazy thing that this happened.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, so where did you begin when you heard this
was happening.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think I when I heard it was happening, it
wasn't an open thing, like I think they were like,
they're offering it to a big name. And then when
I heard and then all of a sudden, a man
in Knox started following me on Instagram and that was
(32:34):
the first like what's going on? Yeah? And I texted
my agents right away. I'm like, what does this mean?
What is this guys? And they're like, let's see what
do you need to know? And from that point on,
it was like meeting with kJ and Warren, who like,
(32:54):
like I hadn't started my research at that point. I
was just so interested in it and wanted to know
what the angle was and what was happening with it.
And hearing Kj's vision for it.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, how did they pitch it to you?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Oh my gosh, it was like, well, I learned so
much just within that pitch of it, of how she
was setting up the show, but also the approach to
it of she just had such a perspective and which
is so rare, especially for a true crime show. It's
(33:32):
like to not just have it be shock value morbid,
you know, it was. It had the essence of Amanda,
which I didn't know yet at the time, but like
having the tone be Amilee esque because Omily was Amanda's
favorite movie and it was also her alibi, and having
(33:54):
those omileesque sequences that feel like her, feel like Amanda's essence,
and like it's a way to understand her and what
happened simultaneously. And it I thought, that was so smart,
such a smart way to tell this story, yea. And
(34:15):
it made me so it just made me so much
more interested. And it was like it was a very
quick process of like finding out that I was doing it,
and then two months later we were shooting it. So
like squeezing in two months, learning as much Italian as
I could and speaking Amanda as much as I could.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I mean, were you guys just on FaceTime all the time.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I bugged her for a bit and she was not
even bugger. She was like, she was just so cool
and willing to talk to me about anything. She's so like,
oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
It really it strikes me as something so interesting for
you to be portraying now because even over the last
twenty years, the increase in our societal consciousness about the
way women get spoken to, spoken about portrayed who they
get to be. You're too much of this, You're not
(35:12):
enough of that has grown in ways that are so relieving,
and also I think not enough.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, but I I think about.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Hearing about that story and from today looking back, and
we had her on the show, yeah, when the show
is coming out, and she's so incredible, And what really
struck me about her is she's so intelligent. I mean,
she's a brilliant woman. And for some reason, particularly when
(35:47):
we were all kind of college aged, you weren't allowed
to be beautiful and brilliant. If you were pretty, it
meant you were a slot. It meant you were easy
pickings for, you know, some boy at a hideous phrase
like she was demonized in this way because she went
away and was falling for a boy. Like, what's more
(36:10):
pure or sweet than that.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
She's twenty years old in Italy and knew a guy
for seven days. He was exploring it and was living life.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, a man would never be judged for that, but
we've all been through it. And it was so crazy
because she and I got to talk about our experiences
granted very different but also similar cousiny with media at
a young age. And then to talk with Monica about it,
you know, the woman who knows maybe better than anyone,
(36:43):
what the media can do to a young woman who's
just a human who's fallible and also really really intelligent.
God was it crazy for you to get to know
and then get to him body, Amanda, but also to
have Monica Lewinsky be involved and just to be able
(37:05):
to hear their stories for your own kind of like
emotional actor grounding.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, all of it as a human, as an actor, like,
both of those women are so inspiring on how they've
come out the other side of being treated like that,
And so that was just on a human level listening
to them and being inspired by that by just two strong,
(37:34):
badass women. Yeah, was amazing to be in the presence
of and in terms of playing the part, it just
made me even more passionate to tell her story as
authentically as possible and like show as much as possible
what she was going through moment to moment. Nobody knows that, Like.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, is there something that you learned from her? You know,
while you guys were getting close and you were figuring
out how to portray this something that maybe you hadn't known.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
So everything, I mean there were things that I it's like,
it's everyone's guilty of it, Like, of course I assumed
how she felt in prison. Yeah, of course I assumed
how she felt during the interrogation. But that's all like
that's part of the problem, right, It's like reading the
(38:31):
headlines and being like, oh, she probably felt like this,
but it's like no, and now the show can show
how she really was in these moments. And what shocked
me and what was so beautiful to me is how
she handled it every step of the way. Like, of
(38:52):
course prison was traumatic and unfathomable, but the way she
accepted her reality and turned it around and to be like, well,
if I'm here, I'm going to make the best of it,
and every day gave herself a purpose, whether that was
learning Italian or helping other prisoners who couldn't read or write, Like, like,
(39:19):
what she made of an unimaginable moment is so inspiring,
and I like, I can't imagine having that mentality in
a situation like that.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
So I mean it's it takes the idea of resilience and.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Like puts it in the stratosphere to me, Yeah, exactly,
it's going on a solo vacation time.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
To space and yeah real, not for like ten minutes,
like an actual space spaceship alone.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
You're driving it. Yes, yeah, you're just there.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
It's really I mean, it's so incredible. And to your point,
for our friends at home, you'll remember from Amanda's interview
that she, I mean, she was doing justice work in prison,
helping these women not only learn skills but defend themselves.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, and to.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Take a situation which I think the world, knowing what
was true on the other side, would have been like
totally okay if you curled up in a ball and
cried for.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Which is what I was expecting, like gone through. That's
like the natural, That's where I would go. Naturally to
be like you must be that must have ruined you,
you know, But to hear that it didn't was like
you can get through. You can like there is a
way out of things.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
And something I really appreciate is her willingness to be
very forthcoming about Yes, I this was true.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I am different than I.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Was before, but that doesn't mean I don't have the
capability to have purpose, have joy, have a life. On
the other side, and I'm really inspired by the way
that she and Monica and I know you as her
in the show model the sort of human ability to
(41:25):
expand to hold those oppositional things at the same time.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah, I mean just in terms of playing her before
it all and then now it was like working on
how to differentiate those spirits.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yes, like your energy.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah yeah, and what that difference was. That's not the
obvious thing.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Okay, I love this. This is like the inside the
actor's studio moment. We get to have what was your
as an act? What was the thing that helped you
find that? How did you find them? Before?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
And the after?
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Spirit of this woman for yourself.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I mean most importantly speaking to her and being like
just trying to understand where she was at mentally. But
it just felt like the lights were like it was
on a dimmer. It was kind of like the spirit
was on a dimmer a little bit, And which isn't
(42:29):
That's just that's just how I decided to differentiate it.
That's not great coming from Amanda, but just like in
terms of showing it in a series where we don't
have time to see the full evolution of it is. Yeah,
having the spirit you do see in the beginning with
(42:50):
the like naive excited, whimsical, curious, like life is huge too.
I just went through something so incredibly like unimaginable, but
still have the strength like yeah, that's that was the
(43:13):
crazy thing. It was like, yes, she had gone through
so much at that point in the present day, but
was still on a mission to like take control of
her life. And that that was like there was no
point of weakness. It was all coming up with a
plan to to persevere through it and just like get
(43:37):
through it. And that was the interesting thing to find
as opposed to being like happy and then she's a
little bit less happy.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
It's like human media.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, and she's so much deeper than that too, like
she and she's so articulate with her emotions and her
feelings that like that helped me so much. That helped
me so much be like, oh, yes, of course you're
explaining this so well so that I let me try
and show that as best as possible.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yes, should be in it.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
With you in a way, yeah, blessing. And all I
had to do is think of her in those moments
that like feel anything.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
And now for our sponsors, and it strikes me too,
for you at this point in your career to have
gone through this journey and to have learned with her
essentially and also with Monica, does it help you kind
(44:40):
of reframe your own experience in the public eye with
the internet or with the press, whether by the way
it's good or bad about yourself, Like however other people
talk about you, you know, because for me, vulnerably it's
always been weird and it still feels weird. Yeah, you know,
(45:01):
I have these moments where I'm like, out of a
whole life, this is the thing you want to bug
me about for what you know?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
And I'm like knowing that people don't care. Also, like
all of this talk and publicizing things that like ultimately
no one cares, like they don't they're just like trying
to make money whatever the motive is, Yeah, exactly. And
that's how it was with Amanda. Her story was selling.
(45:29):
People didn't care people that they were scrutinized her. They
just saw the words that was gonna then cash them
a check. Like they don't connect these people in the
public eye, like actors or you know, Amanda going through
this as people. And that's exactly that's a scary part.
That's a scary part about it and being around both
(45:55):
in Amanda and Monica and knowing their stories. Of course
that's like scary because there's a version of that that
is of course possible being an actor. But I also
saw how they handle it, and I'm like, okay, there's
(46:16):
that doesn't have to if God forbid that happens in
a in a harmful way. There there is a way
to handle it. So in a way it helps you.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Not necessarily feel so pressurized by it.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it exists like if it's not
in the if it's not on the headlines of huge
news outlets, it's on Instagram, it's on TikTok, like there's
no way around not being spoken about, good or bad.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
And I don't know, just delete the apps from time
to time.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I just don't look at it. I really just don't
look at it.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
I don't either.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
You can't break.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Your publicist is like, damn it, that was a great article.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, I've uh yeah, yeah, it's hard for me.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
The phrase I always come back to the friend said
to me many years ago that my audience probably knows
I've said I'd Nazam by now, but is don't compare
your insides to other people's outsides, because that's what that is.
Like that, whether it's in print or it's online, or
it's anything on a screen or in a paper, is
(47:32):
just the outside totally. We are three dimensional, multifaceted, wonderful, fallible,
messy people.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
And like the minute you start to try to flatten
yourself to compare it to some flat thing somewhere, it's.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Like, so it's dangerous. It's a dangerous game.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, I say, toss it out and like be in
your three dimensional life.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah. Yeah, I have confidence in who you are and
that you know who you are and no one else does.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
So now that the whole series is out there for people,
and like that's my tap on the mic, you'll better
be caught up at home. And if you're not catch up.
But now that it's out in the world and it's
it sort of has breathing room of its own. How
do you hope it'll reframe Amanda's legacy.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
I just hope people understand her more like that was
that was my goal through it all, Like, of course
as a show, I hope people are able to just
reconsider maybe they're preconceived ideas and form an opinion based
on these facts and what you see in the show
as opposed to the crazy headlines and the bias that
(48:50):
was fed to them. But for me, I really, I
really hope people like are reminded that this was a
twenty year old girl going through this, and I tried
to understand her as best as possible so that the
audience did too. And I just hope it humanizes her
(49:12):
a bit more because it's crazy to see people still
not see her as a human being. So I hope,
I hope that comes across and it changes people's minds.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Yeah, I think I think that's the most powerful piece
of this medium we all get to play in. Yes,
when you just read about something, it's so easy to
judge a person. Things seem very black and white. But
when you watch a human go through something, when you
watch a character make a mistake, learn a lesson, grow,
(49:50):
whether that's a fictional character or someone you know real
like in this experience for you, I think we're so
much more willing to see their humanity and root for
them even when they screw up. Yeah, and I hope
that this woman who was accused of screwing up in
front of the whole world who didn't gets a little
(50:14):
bit of relief. You know, it feels to me like
she really deserves to be let up off the mat.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
She does, she really does. I hope she feels that.
I hope she feels like the story was told in
the way that she wanted to be.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
I know, she's so proud of the story. I hope
I won't get in trouble for revealing this, but I
obviously I agree with her. You did the most tremendous
job on this show. But on our show, she literally
said she was so blown away about you and that
she thinks you should win all of the awards. And
that is a direct quote.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
That's so sweet for her.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
So I hope we get to speak that into existence.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
From both all. I'm just happy she's happy.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
That was, Like.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I just wanted her, after her being her story being
told for her for eighteen years, she had to feel
good about how she was being portrayed.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
She deserves that.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, everyone, everyone deserves to tell their their
own story. It's just rare that we that we get
to tell me about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Well, when you look out, you know it, what's ahead?
Third season of your show? This this amazing project wrapped
up for you. Whether it's actually professional or personal. What
feels like it's next, what feels like you're work in progress.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
I feel like I would love to figure out a
better work life balance. I feel like I haven't figured
out real life yet and feeling as purposeful as I
do when I'm working, and I know that that's not
(52:06):
my purpose. So it's like, I feel like finding that
is really important to me right now and doing the
things that do give me purpose when I'm not at
work I make me happy, and figuring out a routine
and like cause it's like a free for all and
I and I just would love to work on figuring
(52:32):
that out a bit more and balancing that out, and
like decorating my home that I've had for two years
that's like has nothing in it, and like creating a
sanctuary and just making, you know, putting piecing my life
together piece by piece so that I feel just more
(52:53):
solid and grounded when I'm not doing the thing I love,
which hopefully is a lot and for a long time,
but still got to figure out the real important, real important.
I would love some advice, if you have any.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
I have so many thoughts. I've made these mistakes, so
you don't have to.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Well, I ask actors all the time because it's like,
no matter what age, like, I've asked way older actors
and they haven't figured it out. But I know people
my age you have like I don't. I don't know
what it takes to figure it out, but I yeah,
I would love some.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Well, I think you have to give yourself like a
little bit of permission to not have it figured out,
because the conundrum of us is there's never a routine. Yeah,
you go to work and you learn your ten pages
and then you immediately have to forget it and they
don't give you your call time until you wrap. You
(53:59):
can't make any plans, so you can't book a dentist appointment.
You don't even know if you can go to your
best friend's wedding. And if you really get addicted to
a routine, the absolute irrelevance of your routine and your
needs will make you crazy. You have to go to work.
But if you can't figure out a routine that is
(54:20):
something you can hold with an open hand. Then when
you wrap a job, if you're like me, you'll spend
five days spinning around your house in circles going, well,
which thing should I do first? And you'll beat yourself
up because you haven't gotten anything meaningful done. So it's
like on either end you feel a little paralyzed.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
Of course, of course, either.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
A total lack of choice or an over abundance of choice.
I feel like it's taken me until like about the
last year really to start to get.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
Into a middle ground of the two.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
It's like I've started to learn to ride the seesaw.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
And now it feels fun. That's great.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
I have some I won't be like I have advice
for you, Like none of us know what we're doing.
That never changes. But I do have a few things
that are like try these and see which.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, God, I would love to hear it. Because I
also love like I think it's why I wanted to
be an actor too, because I love the idea of
no routine. I'm like not a type a person at all.
I'm I love not having a plan, and I love
making a plan like right now, and the idea of
(55:30):
traveling to different places and that like that was a
huge part of me wanting to do it, of like
experiencing different cities and people and whatever. But I think
I'm like it's more of like a fear of when
I get older and I'm done with that mentality, Like,
am I going to be stranded in like an empty
house with a mattress on the floor and be like help.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Like two eggs so I'll figure it out. But but yeah, okay, good,
I don't know, I have a list, I have Okay, great,
thank you for today.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
I love the show. I mean I love it all
the show, particularly this this project is just so amazing
and you crushed.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Congrats
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
back to Work in Progress friends. This week we have
someone I am elated to talk to. As you all
(00:22):
know from our wonderful episode with Amanda Knox, I am
fascinated with her story, and her story has come to
life on Hulu with The Twisted Tale of Amanda Knox,
which is dominating the conversation right now and certainly expanding
the already impressive reach of its star, Grace Van Patten.
(00:45):
Grace was raised by two creative parents and quickly established
her own artistic identity and voice. She has worked with
incredible visionaries like Noah Bombach and Nicole Kidman. Her Hulu
series Tell Me Lies is on its way back to
us for its third season and promises to be even
more intense. But my goodness, the intensity of this role.
(01:10):
Grace plays Amanda Knox with such a commitment to the
mess of it all, the fear, the anxiety, the trauma
frankly of what it's like to be wrongly accused of
a heinous crime, and the show really leans into investigating perception, justice,
(01:31):
and identity. It's the kind of layered storytelling that as
an observer I would say has become Grace's signature. She
gravitates toward complex characters, she amplifies women's voices, and she
wants to be part of roles that challenge the way
society treats us. She is exactly the kind of artist
(01:52):
I am thrilled to sit down with and chat with today.
Let's dive in with Grace Van Patten. Hi, welcome to
the show.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I'm so thrilled that you're here. I'm so excited about
the project. But before we jump into all the things
happening this week, in terms for our friends at home
of when we're recording, I actually want to go backwards
because I feel like audiences when you're promoting something, or
you know you're a few years into a series like
(02:33):
you are, they know what you've been up to. But
I'm always really curious about where people come from, and
so I like to ask people from this vantage point
that you're at today, if you got to go back
and at school or on the playground to hang out
with your eight year old self, do you think you
would see the woman you are today in her? And
(02:57):
do you think she would be so amped to find
out what you're up to as an adult.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
That makes me want to cry. That's so cute. Yeah,
I think she'd be amped. I think she'd be really excited.
I don't know if she saw all of this in
store for her, but she was a very curious kid
and that has turned into a curious adult, so we've
(03:23):
maintained that. Yeah, it is crazy to think about. Yeah,
and I had no like acting was something that I
enjoyed so much as a kid, just in like school
plays and acting classes. But it's something I never saw
(03:45):
as a career. And I think that's because I didn't
have as much faith in myself and I saw my
dad's a director. I saw how unpredictable it was and
how I didn't see just the glamorous side of it.
So it took me a really long time to think
that I could do it, that I was even capable
(04:06):
of it. So it's interesting to think of me as
a kid and the idea I had of like something
I love but never thought of pursuing as a job.
And how lucky I am that those two things can
coincide and I get to do what I love as
a job. Totally so cool.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I think it's also really interesting because people assume if
you have any connection to the industry that it's going
to be so easy for you, and you're like, no, no.
The people who have connections to the industry often know
how they see that absolutely what is and like that
it's not steady in any way, that it's not something
you can count on totally. You know. I grew up
(04:49):
my dad is also an artist. He's a photographer, and
I always planned on going to medical school really and
then I had an arts requirement. My best friend was
like a quintessential theater kid, always singing in vibrato in
the hall. It was like doing show tunes and I
was like, I love you, but that's not my thing.
I like a musical, but I don't know that I
(05:09):
would be in a Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And when I.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Did a play and realized how much bigger the world
of theater was, and I decided to shift my career
path into the arts. My parents were like, what are
you thinking? You see how this is and it's awful.
But I think when you're young enough you kind of go.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
What why not? Maybe because it's fun and it's like
playing dress up as a job. Of course that sounds appealing.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
It's interesting to me that I always land on kind
of what were you up to it? Eight or nine? Yeah,
because didn't you do the Sopranos when you were eight?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I did? I did. I was exactly eight. And it's
a really funny thing because like a couple of years ago,
I don't know, I just came up in conversation with
my dad like if my dad and I have ever
worked together, and we both like immediately said no, because
we neither of us remembered that. It was because in
(06:11):
my memory, I was eight, I was on set and
I thought my dad was just like my dad on set,
like telling me what to do as opposed to being
the director of and he just he directed so many
episodes and I had like two lines and I think
I was in two episodes and he did one of them.
(06:33):
So I just we you didn't really yeah, And I
just thought he was like my dad hanging out on
set totally. But that was a I that experience, Like
I still get that fit that because I was my
first I told my dad my parents like I want
to act, and they're like okay, and I kept I
(06:55):
kept pushing them and pushing them, and my Dad's like,
you can audition. That's sure, you can audition, and like,
I'll never forget that feeling of walking into Steiner Studios
and my mom was just like let me go, and
I signed in and I'm like waiting, waiting in the
waiting room and feeling those like nervous butterflies and walking
(07:18):
in and my dad's like in the back row, crossing
his leg and he's like, I'm not getting like I'm
not getting involved. Yeah I'm not. And that's still how
I feel walking in. It's like, but it's the excitement.
It's auditionings horrible, it's so scary, but it's it's like,
I don't know, it's what keeps you on your toes. Yeah, yeah,
(07:40):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Do you think because because I get what you're saying,
it's it's actually so normal, especially when you grow up
on the crew side of things. I would imagine it
would probably be pretty crazy to grow up with a
parent who was like a.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Kind of movie Yeah yeah, yeah, for like that would
be now.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
But when you grow up and a parent is crewe
like camera directing, set deck whatever, you see the other
side of it. Do you feel like you knew you
were in a creative household because your parents were in
the arts or does that sort of register for you
(08:22):
more now as a creative adult.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, I definitely knew that it was a creative household.
My dad is such a creative, artistic soul and my
mom is too, and they're they're very they're very open
curious people and always like always pushed us to find
(08:48):
that part within ourselves. I'm one of three sisters, the
oldest of three sisters, and they always encouraged us to
like find our form of expression whatever that may be.
And for me it was acting and sports and whole
you know, those are the bookends of totally. So it
(09:13):
definitely felt like that. And my dad, like we didn't
grow up talking about the business a lot, it was
not dinner table talk, but whenever he did, it was
it was purely out of passion. Like I saw him
choose things and choose jobs that he was really passionate
(09:35):
about and felt connected to, which was so inspiring to me.
Like not as a kid, I didn't know that that
was going to be inspiring, but now I am so
inspired by that mentality and really really try and do
that with myself. Now is just like jump into things
that I know, I really feel a certain way about
(10:00):
because that's that's what's most fulfilling to me totally.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
And I think when you do this, when you're part
of the sort of traveling circus and you have to
pick up your life and move to a random place
and do these crazy hours and sometimes you're on a
project that's I don't know, all night shoots, it's.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Like, yeah, you have to love it. You have to.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
To navigate the sort of weird technical parts of it.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Are your sister's also really artistic or does everyone kind
of have their own.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
They're all really creative. Yeah. My middle sister is also
an actor and she's in the show with me. She
plays my sister in the Amanda Knox Show. And my
other sister's only fourteen and she is really into basketball
and currently wants to be in the WNBA. So I'm
(10:53):
like just going, we got to get it. I want
to be at courtside.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
It's so fun. Do you go to the Liberty game?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
All the time, so fun.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
All the Time's so fun. I'm such a basketball and
soccer fan. And yes, I don't know, it's interesting because
you were an athlete and an artist. I was like
the asthmatic kid who clearly was never going to keep up.
When all the soccer players started to get really good,
I was like, and I'm out, Like I don't have
the lung capacity to run that fab And now I
(11:26):
literally refuse to run unless I'm being chased.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Oh, it's usually I can't run. I just can't. It's
not for me. I find no joy.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
But it's interesting that you guys, you figured out something
that's almost like somatic, right, being an actor, being a dancer,
being an athlete, it requires such a relationship to your
own body.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
True, that's kind of cool that your little sisters.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Rushing.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
She is like, she's so good. Oh, I love that
she's going to like, yeah, I could talk about her forever.
She's I love her so much.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Is she in that sort of timeline like you were,
because I know you had to choose between a sports
school and yes, yes, when you were picking a high school.
She's just she's going sports going. Wow, she has shown
interest in acting, but.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I can't tell. I can't tell yet if it's like
you do it, but I know it so cool.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Do you feel like looking back, you you know how
you made that decision, because it's a crazy thing to
think about. And maybe I'm reflecting on this because I'm
thinking about it for myself too. To go home and
say to my parents, just kidding, I'm not going to
medical school. I'm going to go in the THEATA. They
were like, what do you mean for you to make
(12:52):
that choice and say, Okay, if I have to give
something up, I'm really going to better myself and I'm
going to do this. Do you feel like you knew
where that came from or do you remember the day
that you made the decision.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I feel like I never made the decision. Really. I
feel like I was young enough and didn't feel like
I was giving something up. It felt like I was
just going for something that I knew I was interested
in and didn't I couldn't. I didn't know where it
(13:29):
could go, or where it was going, or where I
even wanted it to go. It was kind of I
graduated high school, I didn't know like I spent I
went to La Guardia and studied it for four years,
so I didn't know what life was out. Life was
like without it, you know, without studying it every day. Yes,
(13:49):
it's like a conservatory. You're doing it half your day
every single day for four years. So I really wanted
to see how I felt about it without doing it
every day, without being surrounded by actors, And so I
took a gap year and I took classes in other
(14:10):
things that I was interested in, like criminal psychology and philosophy,
and just like trying to see if anything sparked my
interest to I don't know, divert even though I knew
acting was, it was in there. And then within that
year is when I met my manager, who just approached
me at a birthday party, and when she signed me.
(14:33):
I think that was the first moment where I was like,
I think it took somebody believing in me to be like, Okay, okay,
maybe maybe it's time I can try this and go
for it in some type of real way. And then
that's kind of when it all started.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Oh that's so exciting. Yeah, we'll be back in just
a minute. But here's a word from our sponsors. What
is your relationship like to New York now? Because you
grew up here, you went to your conservatory here, Like,
(15:12):
what what's your experience with the city now as an
adult who's a working actor and his in and out
all the time.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I love it Yeah, it's magic to me.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It's like I only left because if I didn't, I'd
be here my whole life. And I wanted just some
sort of change, you know. I wanted to experience something
else and something new. That's that's the only reason. Because
I find it so inspiring and so phrenetic, and so yeah,
(15:46):
it's just magic.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
It's such an interesting place because I feel like the
city has its own kind of rhythm and it's almost
like jumping in a river and you just figure out
where it's going to take you.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Totally. I feel about life too, because I think I
grew up here. I'm like, are you gonna happen to
It's like, yeah, exactly, very spontaneous. You don't know what
to expect, you don't know what's around the corner, and
that's kind of how I lived my life.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Now thinking about things that are happening in your world. Obviously,
we're going to get to the Amanda Knox story, which
I'm so excited to talk to you about too, but
we can't talk about now without also touching on Nine
Perfect Strangers because it was so phenomenal and I thought
about there was a moment I remember watching the show.
(16:40):
One of my best friends worked on it with her boss,
and we talked so much about what that journey was like,
particularly when everyone was filming and the world.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Was shutting the dogs.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
We're so crazy. And I had this moment watching an episode,
watching one of your scenes, and it was like some
part of me that's in me from my first year
going on location in North Carolina and like being away
from everyone I knew and working on my first show
(17:11):
was like, oh my god, she's also a baby, but
like she's a baby on set with Nicole Kidman. What
is her experience? Is she okay? Did she have fun?
I'm telling you, it's such like a surreal thing.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Oh, that's so interesting. Could feel it and you're like,
I've been like the girl.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Playing the teenager in me, right, teenager in you?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
That's so funny that, Yeah, you're not wrong. I was definitely.
It was like it was such a beautiful experience and
such a scary experience at the same time. And that's
only because I think if the state of the world
was different, it'd be a lot more positive, sure in
terms of like mental state. Yeah, the scary part about
(17:58):
it was just that I had to go to Australia
for six months, and I knew that I couldn't leave
and that no one could visit me, and so the
anticipation of going was the was the scariest part to me.
Once I got there, and once everyone was so nice
and like, because we all only had each other, it
(18:18):
was such a beautiful bond between all of us. That's
so different than any other job I've been on when
people have their people around or their families or whatever
it is. And this was really special for that reason.
But yeah, it can get It can get really lonely,
for sure, and any job, like.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
For you being essentially the kid there, I mean you're
going to work with Nicole Kidman and Laissa McCarthy and
Bobby and all these people, like like they really were
wonderful mentors for you. I do.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I really would just like sit there and watch all
of them, all these personalities, all like with seemingly a
different approach to it, like I because it was such
an ensemble and all of these amazing people were around me,
it was such a good like I had a vignette
into like all of these different types of approaches and
(19:19):
processes and like personalities. Yeah, completely and all different parts
to Like, it was just it was so fun to
watch and in the most beautiful, beautiful place ever in
Byron Bay, and there was no COVID there, so it
(19:42):
was like a weird I was so disconnected from what
was going on too, well, because you guys were in
a bubble, complete bubble, and no one.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Coming in or out. So once they knew no one
in the bubble wasn't was sick.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It was and just no one was sick one and
no one in like all of Byron but the whole
town was. It was completely COVID free. What a trip.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
So what were you guys doing since you couldn't go anywhere?
Like did you just play every board game under the sun?
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah? We played board games a lot of All of
the like younger people in the cast lived in this
row of townhouses, so we were just kind of like
felt like friends. Yeah, Like we were just like hopping
around each other's homes and it was so great. I
met a bunch of people there, like from the town,
just like going to coffee shops and going to the beach,
(20:32):
and it was such like a welcoming little community. So
it was really it was a really And then I
stayed because COVID was still so bad in America and
Australia was like COVID free. I stayed in Australia for
three more months after shooting and lived in a van
for a month, and like traveled down the coast and
it was it was unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, okay, Now, as the person who is an adult
who thinks about all of the children in my life,
how did your parents to feel like when you called
and you said, hey, mom, I'm gonna live in a van,
what was the response there?
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I was I was with my boyfriend at the time,
so I wasn't alone. I wasn't like alone on the road.
So they felt comforted by that.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I watched like a too much true crime to not
oh my god, panic hearing that. But you're here, so
obviously you're saying.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
No, I'm fine. I was fine. Okay, it felt like
a very safe, safe place. But but alone, no, that
would be I don't.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Think I could do it, like I am such a
I just have a spirit crush on Tracy Ellis Ross.
I'm obsessed with her everything from like democratic advocacy to
her fashion. She's one of my favorite people to hang
out around. But she travels alone all the time, and
I'm like, girl.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Have you have you never gone anywhere alone, like taken
a little solo trip anywhere? Not for not that far.
I guess it's bright for me.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Like, sure, you know I go places alone all the time,
but it's usually.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
For work, right, which is a different I'll have a day.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, but I've never packed up two suitcases and like
I'm going backpacked for three weeks solo.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, I've always been curious. I'm saying I've taken like
obviously work and then if I'm like, I've taken weekend
trips alone and because I'll tack it on to the
end of something, yeah, exactly, exactly, but right to make
the decision and like plan an itinerary for a vacation solo. Yeah,
(22:27):
I've never done very inspired by it. Me too, Scared
me too, I'd be Yeah, I hope I do it
at some point in my life.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Okay, we're starting the accountability group. Yeah, okay, Like where
are you going? Where you going by the end of
twenty twenty five?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Deal?
Speaker 1 (22:44):
How are things going? Speaking of you know, many seasons
of television, How is everything going with? Tell me lies
you're going into season.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Three, or you just finished We're in the middle of
season three.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
You're in the middle.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, yeah, we're we have like a month left of shooting.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
And are you still loving it?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
I am. It's like, oh my gosh, I could talk
to you about this forever. By the way, I started
watching One Tree Hill as like Cress No, Like I
was like, oh my god, like this that was the
show of the time. Yes, I was watching One Tree Hill.
I was watching Oh see yeah, and you're so fuck
(23:21):
You're so good, You're I had so much. I'm still
watching it, like I just started this. See great.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
It's like one hundred and eighty seven hours of television.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And I'm gonna watch it all. Oh boy, and I'm
gonna reach out to you and tell you everything. Go
any time.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Wait, where are you in my show? Since you're three
years into your show?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
No, I just season three. I just I'm just starting
One Tree Hill. Oh my goodness. So when I kind
of I was coming here, I'm like, oh my god,
I wish I had finished it all. But to ask
you a million questions, so much about but yeah, so
much to talk about. How many seasons was that nine?
How old are you?
Speaker 1 (24:00):
What was the age I had been twenty one for
I think two weeks maybe when I moved to Wilmington.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And I remember literally getting there and being like, I
can go into a bar like with my coworkers. This
is so weird.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Whoa like feeling like a kid but knowing you were
able to do adult things.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
But it was also really weird for me because I
went to an all girls, like very nerdy academic, like
a prep school, but not one of those like old
money prep schools. It just happened to be an all
girls school that wanted to make sure you got into
a good college. And so I had gone from there
(24:45):
to being a philanthropy chair at USC, like in the
Greek life system. And then of course I was like
the charity check.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Did you go to college?
Speaker 1 (24:56):
And I did three years there? Oh my god, Because
by then I knew I want to to act, and
I was planning on going away to a conservatory. And
I had met my manager or my senior year in
high school, I had done a play that was very
controversial and wound up with this like little write up
in the La Times. She came to see it signed
me and was like, if you really want to be
(25:18):
an actor? You can't leave LA. I auditioned for the
BFA program at USC and got in, and so I
stayed Wow, And then I almost didn't take One Tree
Hill because I didn't want to miss my senior year
in college because it felt so it felt like all
the movies I grew up on because I hadn't had
that high school experience. So then I get to Wilmington
and I have to play a boy crazy, most popular
(25:42):
girl in school, who's the head of the cheer team.
I've never cheered. I didn't go to school with boys.
There were fifty five of us in my entire grade.
There was no popularity contest, like we were losers.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Oh my friends and I were like.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
The awkward theater camp kids. And I had to like
go b Brooks Davis and I was like, Okay, I
guess I can pretend I would have.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Never guessed that you're so natural and it fit, like,
Oh my god, you're so say that's crazy.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
When we started rewatching the show for Drama Queen's other podcast,
which was our COVID project, I literally for the first
five episodes was like, oh my god, I need to
step trying so hard. I'm trying so hard to like
be the cool girl, and eventually I think I settled
into it. Oh my god, it's crazy to me that
that's the part I got hired for because that was
(26:33):
your first job. That was my first regular gig.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I had been working a little bit, but that was
my first like series regular job.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
That's crazy and what like to make that decision and
think about the other pass and think about crazy. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's nine years. I can imagine three years now.
It feels like nine and so I can't imagine, do
you know, because.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Streaming is so different. I feel like most shows go
max three or four seasons.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, yeah, if you we don't know yet, if you.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Find out at the end of every year like we
used to, right exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, I mean like it feels like it's coming to like,
it feels like that would be the appropriate thing to
kind of have this have it three, but it's so
good we don't want to know. It'd be so bittersweet.
It really would be like, Yeah, the cast, we are
all so close, like we are family, Like they are
(27:33):
some of my best friends, and I feel so like,
like I cannot imagine if we didn't get along and
for that i'd be sad, like a group of friends
working together like special. It just actually feels it's just
(27:55):
so fun. It's so fun but also nice to like
move on.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
How did that job come your way? Was it one
of a million things you were going out for and
just trying to figure out?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, it was. I remember first meeting with Megan, the showrunner,
and hearing about it and just thinking it was so
I just love watching those types of things, toxic relationships,
and I just blew Valentine's one of my favorite movies. Yeah,
Urban Cowboy. It's like painful, but it's like exciting too,
(28:32):
and or at least I found movies like that exciting.
But maybe it's just because I found the acting exciting,
like people just kind of losing their mind.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Totally because it feels dangerous.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, it feels dangerous and free, yes, yes, acting wise,
like it feels like you could just kind of go crazy.
And I thought this this show was such a cool
way to show it within young people in a serious way,
Like it takes these young people's feelings so seriously, which
(29:06):
I had never seen before.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
It's so refreshing.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It's like we have to stop treating young people like
they're stupid.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I hate when we treat audiences like they're stupid. And
I hate when we treat characters like they're stupid.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yeah, like young dumb Yeah yeah, yeah totally. I mean
these characters are they might be doing really stupid thing.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, that's just part of growing up. We'll be back
in just a minute after a few words from our
favorite sponsors. I mean, talking about feeling like you could
lose your mind in a role, talk to me about
playing Amanda Knox. Where did this even begin? And also,
(29:52):
you know, I remember that trial. I remember when this
was happening. I don't remember if I was in high
school or college, but I remember it being everywhere in
the media. Obviously, this is pre social media, all of
the sort of slew thing people can do now. There
were no amateur crime solvers things out. The media could
(30:17):
spin stories, They could make you think anything about anyone
that they wanted to. And her story was so insane, insane,
And now, as an adult, not only to have seen
what's happened with her story and to know she was
wrongfully convicted, to know there was literally not a shred
(30:40):
of evidence that she was anywhere near this crime and
to realize what they said about her.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
What was it like for you?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Because you had to go back and I would imagine,
read it, watch it, learn it, pay me a picture.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
Of this shocking because I was really young when it
all happened, So I wasn't you know, I didn't have
a memory of the headlines and the controversy of it,
but I knew her name, like that name was so
engraved in my head for some reason. I don't know,
(31:20):
But I do remember watching the Netflix documentary in twenty
fifteen or twenty sixteen when it came out, and that
was that was around the time I had started acting professionally,
and I have a vivid memory of calling my agents
at the time saying I need to play her. No,
it was I don't know why I thought. I was
(31:42):
so intrigued by this story and by her like I
thought she was such an individual person and for someone
being scrutinized by her behavior so much, I'm like what what?
I was just so fascinated by it. So this was
a crazy, crazy, full circle, weird universal I don't know,
(32:04):
I don't know, crazy thing that this happened.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, so where did you begin when you heard this
was happening.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think I when I heard it was happening, it
wasn't an open thing, like I think they were like,
they're offering it to a big name. And then when
I heard and then all of a sudden, a man
in Knox started following me on Instagram and that was
(32:34):
the first like what's going on? Yeah? And I texted
my agents right away. I'm like, what does this mean?
What is this guys? And they're like, let's see what
do you need to know? And from that point on,
it was like meeting with kJ and Warren, who like,
(32:54):
like I hadn't started my research at that point. I
was just so interested in it and wanted to know
what the angle was and what was happening with it.
And hearing Kj's vision for it.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah, how did they pitch it to you?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Oh my gosh, it was like, well, I learned so
much just within that pitch of it, of how she
was setting up the show, but also the approach to
it of she just had such a perspective and which
is so rare, especially for a true crime show. It's
(33:32):
like to not just have it be shock value morbid,
you know, it was. It had the essence of Amanda,
which I didn't know yet at the time, but like
having the tone be Amilee esque because Omily was Amanda's
favorite movie and it was also her alibi, and having
(33:54):
those omileesque sequences that feel like her, feel like Amanda's essence,
and like it's a way to understand her and what
happened simultaneously. And it I thought, that was so smart,
such a smart way to tell this story, yea. And
(34:15):
it made me so it just made me so much
more interested. And it was like it was a very
quick process of like finding out that I was doing it,
and then two months later we were shooting it. So
like squeezing in two months, learning as much Italian as
I could and speaking Amanda as much as I could.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I mean, were you guys just on FaceTime all the time.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I bugged her for a bit and she was not
even bugger. She was like, she was just so cool
and willing to talk to me about anything. She's so like,
oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
It really it strikes me as something so interesting for
you to be portraying now because even over the last
twenty years, the increase in our societal consciousness about the
way women get spoken to, spoken about portrayed who they
get to be. You're too much of this, You're not
(35:12):
enough of that has grown in ways that are so relieving,
and also I think not enough.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, but I I think about.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Hearing about that story and from today looking back, and
we had her on the show, yeah, when the show
is coming out, and she's so incredible, And what really
struck me about her is she's so intelligent. I mean,
she's a brilliant woman. And for some reason, particularly when
(35:47):
we were all kind of college aged, you weren't allowed
to be beautiful and brilliant. If you were pretty, it
meant you were a slot. It meant you were easy
pickings for, you know, some boy at a hideous phrase
like she was demonized in this way because she went
away and was falling for a boy. Like, what's more
(36:10):
pure or sweet than that.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
She's twenty years old in Italy and knew a guy
for seven days. He was exploring it and was living life.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, a man would never be judged for that, but
we've all been through it. And it was so crazy
because she and I got to talk about our experiences
granted very different but also similar cousiny with media at
a young age. And then to talk with Monica about it,
you know, the woman who knows maybe better than anyone,
(36:43):
what the media can do to a young woman who's
just a human who's fallible and also really really intelligent.
God was it crazy for you to get to know
and then get to him body, Amanda, but also to
have Monica Lewinsky be involved and just to be able
(37:05):
to hear their stories for your own kind of like
emotional actor grounding.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, all of it as a human, as an actor, like,
both of those women are so inspiring on how they've
come out the other side of being treated like that,
And so that was just on a human level listening
to them and being inspired by that by just two strong,
(37:34):
badass women. Yeah, was amazing to be in the presence
of and in terms of playing the part, it just
made me even more passionate to tell her story as
authentically as possible and like show as much as possible
what she was going through moment to moment. Nobody knows that, Like.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah, is there something that you learned from her? You know,
while you guys were getting close and you were figuring
out how to portray this something that maybe you hadn't known.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
So everything, I mean there were things that I it's like,
it's everyone's guilty of it, Like, of course I assumed
how she felt in prison. Yeah, of course I assumed
how she felt during the interrogation. But that's all like
that's part of the problem, right, It's like reading the
(38:31):
headlines and being like, oh, she probably felt like this,
but it's like no, and now the show can show
how she really was in these moments. And what shocked
me and what was so beautiful to me is how
she handled it every step of the way. Like, of
(38:52):
course prison was traumatic and unfathomable, but the way she
accepted her reality and turned it around and to be like, well,
if I'm here, I'm going to make the best of it,
and every day gave herself a purpose, whether that was
learning Italian or helping other prisoners who couldn't read or write, Like, like,
(39:19):
what she made of an unimaginable moment is so inspiring,
and I like, I can't imagine having that mentality in
a situation like that.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
So I mean it's it takes the idea of resilience and.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Like puts it in the stratosphere to me, Yeah, exactly,
it's going on a solo vacation time.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
To space and yeah real, not for like ten minutes,
like an actual space spaceship alone.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
You're driving it. Yes, yeah, you're just there.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
It's really I mean, it's so incredible. And to your point,
for our friends at home, you'll remember from Amanda's interview
that she, I mean, she was doing justice work in prison,
helping these women not only learn skills but defend themselves.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, and to.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Take a situation which I think the world, knowing what
was true on the other side, would have been like
totally okay if you curled up in a ball and
cried for.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Which is what I was expecting, like gone through. That's
like the natural, That's where I would go. Naturally to
be like you must be that must have ruined you,
you know, But to hear that it didn't was like
you can get through. You can like there is a
way out of things.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
And something I really appreciate is her willingness to be
very forthcoming about Yes, I this was true.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I am different than I.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Was before, but that doesn't mean I don't have the
capability to have purpose, have joy, have a life. On
the other side, and I'm really inspired by the way
that she and Monica and I know you as her
in the show model the sort of human ability to
(41:25):
expand to hold those oppositional things at the same time.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah, I mean just in terms of playing her before
it all and then now it was like working on
how to differentiate those spirits.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yes, like your energy.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah yeah, and what that difference was. That's not the
obvious thing.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Okay, I love this. This is like the inside the
actor's studio moment. We get to have what was your
as an act? What was the thing that helped you
find that? How did you find them? Before?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
And the after?
Speaker 1 (42:04):
Spirit of this woman for yourself.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I mean most importantly speaking to her and being like
just trying to understand where she was at mentally. But
it just felt like the lights were like it was
on a dimmer. It was kind of like the spirit
was on a dimmer a little bit, And which isn't
(42:29):
That's just that's just how I decided to differentiate it.
That's not great coming from Amanda, but just like in
terms of showing it in a series where we don't
have time to see the full evolution of it is. Yeah,
having the spirit you do see in the beginning with
(42:50):
the like naive excited, whimsical, curious, like life is huge too.
I just went through something so incredibly like unimaginable, but
still have the strength like yeah, that's that was the
(43:13):
crazy thing. It was like, yes, she had gone through
so much at that point in the present day, but
was still on a mission to like take control of
her life. And that that was like there was no
point of weakness. It was all coming up with a
plan to to persevere through it and just like get
(43:37):
through it. And that was the interesting thing to find
as opposed to being like happy and then she's a
little bit less happy.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
It's like human media.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, and she's so much deeper than that too, like
she and she's so articulate with her emotions and her
feelings that like that helped me so much. That helped
me so much be like, oh, yes, of course you're
explaining this so well so that I let me try
and show that as best as possible.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yes, should be in it.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
With you in a way, yeah, blessing. And all I
had to do is think of her in those moments
that like feel anything.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
And now for our sponsors, and it strikes me too,
for you at this point in your career to have
gone through this journey and to have learned with her
essentially and also with Monica, does it help you kind
(44:40):
of reframe your own experience in the public eye with
the internet or with the press, whether by the way
it's good or bad about yourself, Like however other people
talk about you, you know, because for me, vulnerably it's
always been weird and it still feels weird. Yeah, you know,
(45:01):
I have these moments where I'm like, out of a
whole life, this is the thing you want to bug
me about for what you know?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
And I'm like knowing that people don't care. Also, like
all of this talk and publicizing things that like ultimately
no one cares, like they don't they're just like trying
to make money whatever the motive is, Yeah, exactly. And
that's how it was with Amanda. Her story was selling.
(45:29):
People didn't care people that they were scrutinized her. They
just saw the words that was gonna then cash them
a check. Like they don't connect these people in the
public eye, like actors or you know, Amanda going through
this as people. And that's exactly that's a scary part.
That's a scary part about it and being around both
(45:55):
in Amanda and Monica and knowing their stories. Of course
that's like scary because there's a version of that that
is of course possible being an actor. But I also
saw how they handle it, and I'm like, okay, there's
(46:16):
that doesn't have to if God forbid that happens in
a in a harmful way. There there is a way
to handle it. So in a way it helps you.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Not necessarily feel so pressurized by it.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it exists like if it's not
in the if it's not on the headlines of huge
news outlets, it's on Instagram, it's on TikTok, like there's
no way around not being spoken about, good or bad.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
And I don't know, just delete the apps from time
to time.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I just don't look at it. I really just don't
look at it.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
I don't either.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
You can't break.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Your publicist is like, damn it, that was a great article.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, I've uh yeah, yeah, it's hard for me.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
The phrase I always come back to the friend said
to me many years ago that my audience probably knows
I've said I'd Nazam by now, but is don't compare
your insides to other people's outsides, because that's what that is.
Like that, whether it's in print or it's online, or
it's anything on a screen or in a paper, is
(47:32):
just the outside totally. We are three dimensional, multifaceted, wonderful, fallible,
messy people.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
And like the minute you start to try to flatten
yourself to compare it to some flat thing somewhere, it's.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Like, so it's dangerous. It's a dangerous game.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yeah, I say, toss it out and like be in
your three dimensional life.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah. Yeah, I have confidence in who you are and
that you know who you are and no one else does.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
So now that the whole series is out there for people,
and like that's my tap on the mic, you'll better
be caught up at home. And if you're not catch up.
But now that it's out in the world and it's
it sort of has breathing room of its own. How
do you hope it'll reframe Amanda's legacy.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
I just hope people understand her more like that was
that was my goal through it all, Like, of course
as a show, I hope people are able to just
reconsider maybe they're preconceived ideas and form an opinion based
on these facts and what you see in the show
as opposed to the crazy headlines and the bias that
(48:50):
was fed to them. But for me, I really, I
really hope people like are reminded that this was a
twenty year old girl going through this, and I tried
to understand her as best as possible so that the
audience did too. And I just hope it humanizes her
(49:12):
a bit more because it's crazy to see people still
not see her as a human being. So I hope,
I hope that comes across and it changes people's minds.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Yeah, I think I think that's the most powerful piece
of this medium we all get to play in. Yes,
when you just read about something, it's so easy to
judge a person. Things seem very black and white. But
when you watch a human go through something, when you
watch a character make a mistake, learn a lesson, grow,
(49:50):
whether that's a fictional character or someone you know real
like in this experience for you, I think we're so
much more willing to see their humanity and root for
them even when they screw up. Yeah, and I hope
that this woman who was accused of screwing up in
front of the whole world who didn't gets a little
(50:14):
bit of relief. You know, it feels to me like
she really deserves to be let up off the mat.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
She does, she really does. I hope she feels that.
I hope she feels like the story was told in
the way that she wanted to be.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
I know, she's so proud of the story. I hope
I won't get in trouble for revealing this, but I
obviously I agree with her. You did the most tremendous
job on this show. But on our show, she literally
said she was so blown away about you and that
she thinks you should win all of the awards. And
that is a direct quote.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
That's so sweet for her.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
So I hope we get to speak that into existence.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
From both all. I'm just happy she's happy.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
That was, Like.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I just wanted her, after her being her story being
told for her for eighteen years, she had to feel
good about how she was being portrayed.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
She deserves that.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, everyone, everyone deserves to tell their their
own story. It's just rare that we that we get
to tell me about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Well, when you look out, you know it, what's ahead?
Third season of your show? This this amazing project wrapped
up for you. Whether it's actually professional or personal. What
feels like it's next, what feels like you're work in progress.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
I feel like I would love to figure out a
better work life balance. I feel like I haven't figured
out real life yet and feeling as purposeful as I
do when I'm working, and I know that that's not
(52:06):
my purpose. So it's like, I feel like finding that
is really important to me right now and doing the
things that do give me purpose when I'm not at
work I make me happy, and figuring out a routine
and like cause it's like a free for all and
I and I just would love to work on figuring
(52:32):
that out a bit more and balancing that out, and
like decorating my home that I've had for two years
that's like has nothing in it, and like creating a
sanctuary and just making, you know, putting piecing my life
together piece by piece so that I feel just more
(52:53):
solid and grounded when I'm not doing the thing I love,
which hopefully is a lot and for a long time,
but still got to figure out the real important, real important.
I would love some advice, if you have any.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
I have so many thoughts. I've made these mistakes, so
you don't have to.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Well, I ask actors all the time because it's like,
no matter what age, like, I've asked way older actors
and they haven't figured it out. But I know people
my age you have like I don't. I don't know
what it takes to figure it out, but I yeah,
I would love some.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Well, I think you have to give yourself like a
little bit of permission to not have it figured out,
because the conundrum of us is there's never a routine. Yeah,
you go to work and you learn your ten pages
and then you immediately have to forget it and they
don't give you your call time until you wrap. You
(53:59):
can't make any plans, so you can't book a dentist appointment.
You don't even know if you can go to your
best friend's wedding. And if you really get addicted to
a routine, the absolute irrelevance of your routine and your
needs will make you crazy. You have to go to work.
But if you can't figure out a routine that is
(54:20):
something you can hold with an open hand. Then when
you wrap a job, if you're like me, you'll spend
five days spinning around your house in circles going, well,
which thing should I do first? And you'll beat yourself
up because you haven't gotten anything meaningful done. So it's
like on either end you feel a little paralyzed.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
Of course, of course, either.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
A total lack of choice or an over abundance of choice.
I feel like it's taken me until like about the
last year really to start to get.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
Into a middle ground of the two.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
It's like I've started to learn to ride the seesaw.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
And now it feels fun. That's great.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
I have some I won't be like I have advice
for you, Like none of us know what we're doing.
That never changes. But I do have a few things
that are like try these and see which.
Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, God, I would love to hear it. Because I
also love like I think it's why I wanted to
be an actor too, because I love the idea of
no routine. I'm like not a type a person at all.
I'm I love not having a plan, and I love
making a plan like right now, and the idea of
(55:30):
traveling to different places and that like that was a
huge part of me wanting to do it, of like
experiencing different cities and people and whatever. But I think
I'm like it's more of like a fear of when
I get older and I'm done with that mentality, Like,
am I going to be stranded in like an empty
house with a mattress on the floor and be like help.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Like two eggs so I'll figure it out. But but yeah, okay, good,
I don't know, I have a list, I have Okay, great,
thank you for today.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
I love the show. I mean I love it all
the show, particularly this this project is just so amazing
and you crushed.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Congrats
Hosts And Creators
Sophia Bush
Bethany Joy Lenz
Robert Buckley
Hilarie Burton
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