July 25, 2025 • 57 mins
Award-winning actress Jurnee Smollett is a veteran of the big and small screen, and she’s not even 40 yet! The actress started her career when she was still in diapers and won a Critics' Choice award by the time she was eleven years old. Now she’s turning up the heat with her new Apple TV+ crime drama, “Smoke.” No stranger to tackling complex roles, Jurnee joins Sophia to talk about playing a brilliant but troubled detective in her new show, including her prep and research, the behind-the-scenes process of creating a world for her character, and what it was like watching it in front of an audience for the first time! She also opens up about her divorce, early childhood acting experiences, overcoming major working mom guilt, and her relationship with her siblings.
New episodes of “Smoke” drop every Friday on AppleTV+.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
back to Work in Progress friends. This week we are
joined by an actor who I admire so much. Today's
(00:22):
guest is none other than Janny Smale. She is an
American actress born here in New York, one of six siblings,
and she has been working in film and television since
she was a little girl. Known for her roles in Lovecraft, Country,
Birds of Prey, Underground, and True Blood, she is here
to discuss her brand new Apple TV show, Smoke. The
(00:46):
show centers around an arson investigator who begrudgingly teams up
with a police detective as they race to stop two arsonists.
It is a twisted game of secrets and suspicions, and
journey stars opposite tarn Edgerton in this incredible thriller. Today
we're going to talk about what it was like to
(01:07):
film the show, work with the iconic Dennis Lahne, and
a lot about what it means to juggle this life
performing and acting and traveling and creating with motherhood and
self discovery. And you'll hear a little bit about the
lessons the two of us have learned along the way.
Let's dive in with my friend Journey. Hi, honey, I'm
(01:41):
so happy you're here, my love. How are you.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I'm happy to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
It's been forever.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I know, it's been a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You look fabulous. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
You look fabulous. This press tour is working.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Oh well, you know, I got a team of experts
helping it work.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
We need it, especially when you got little ones at home.
It's like somebody helped me. Look like I've.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Slept right right, And then you know, the press to word,
it's almost like you're running a marathon. As you know,
you just sit in that room and you get asked a.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Lot, and you got to make them feel fresh every time. Yeah,
oh I feel it. Well, I'm excited about the projects.
But before we talk about, you know, what's happening in
life at the moment, I want to go backwards a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Okay, how far back are we go?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Like all the way back?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Which is fun for you, especially because you've been working
since you were a baby. But I always wonder, like
when I sit with somebody, whether I know them or
I'm just meeting them, whoever sits in that chair has
an impressive resume, Some cool new project like something in
the world. And I wonder if you could go back
in time and hang out with your little self at
(02:55):
seven or eight years old, do you think the woman
you are today would see herself in that little girl?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Oh? Yes, because I actually meditate on that little girl
a lot. Really, Yeah, because I do believe so much
of what we're doing is in response to our childhood,
you know. And I'm one of those nerds who you know,
I'm reading books on attachment theory and you know me too, Yeah,
(03:24):
so you feel me, you know. And so like all
of the primary attachments we had and the core memories
we had during those moments, I think about, you know,
just in how I see the world. It's also how
I construct characters, you know, when I'm approaching them in
(03:46):
my work. But yeah, that little girl, I mean, she
she was. She was a lot of fun. She was.
She was a lot of fun. There was a lot
going on around me when I was six or seven,
how so, Okay, so I think around that age my
famly I was I was doing full House, or I
(04:10):
had just finished doing Full House, and my family had
been I had been offered by the producers of Full House, offered,
you know, your seven to do a spinoff of Full House.
You know, my character resonated with.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Folks for some reason, I you know, but.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
My pay grade. And so my mom said no to
the spinoff, and she said, I've got six kids at
the time, she had five and one on the way.
And she was like, I ain't doing no more damn
TV unless they're all in the same show, because y'all
got me running around with all these different kids, and
I'm trying to be everywhere with all of them. She
(04:50):
was very protective, very hands on. We never had a
nanny or anyone else watch us other than her, and
she was stretched thin. And so the producers, Bob Boyette,
Miller Boyette, they said, wait, there's more, bring them all in,
and so they gave us all our own TV show.
She had us go into this meeting that happened. Yes,
(05:13):
she had us go into this meeting. We performed Shut
Him Down by Public Enemy.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I was Flavor flav Oh, I did the Flavor Flav verse.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I don't even know. Maybe I had a clock around
my neck. I don't know. A room full of white
men at Warner Brothers, and she had us perform this
very militant song and they gave us our own TV show,
all six even the baby that was Bacon in the oven.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Oh my god, this is amazing.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah. So there was a lot a lot going on
around me, a lot of excitement during that time, a
lot of newness for the first time, Like we moved
into a house that was really nice, remember that, you know. So, yeah,
that's snapshot of my life during that time.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Wow. And did you love it? Did you love acting? Performing?
Even from a young age.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I always did. I was always performing at home. My
mom loved musicals and old films. Sound of music probably
was on repeat throughout my childhood. American in Paris. You
know Gene Kelly, fred Astaire sid Cherise. I always wanted
to be, said Cherise with those long legs, you know.
(06:32):
And so she would put she would put down plywood
on the floor in our apartment in Elmhurst, Queens, and
she got me some tap dance shoes. Me and my
brother Jesse was just tap dance all the time to
these musicals. So, I know, I always loved the art
of performing and that exchange that you get when you're
(06:56):
performing for someone, right, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Oh, it's so interesting because especially I think for a
kid learning any skill like that that really puts you
in your body. It gives you a sense of agency
really early. You know, you understand that you are capable
similar to sport.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
And I like it to sports too. Yeah, I like
in it to little league.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, absolutely, little league AISO, like whatever it is. I
think what we know that maybe folks who don't work
in this industry might be a little misled about, is
that when you are an actor or a performer, a musician,
you know, whatever you do like you're part.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Of a team.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You're in a cast, you work with a whole big.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Crew of collaborators.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yes, like it's team sports, and you've got to learn
how to support the team, but also stay in your lane.
You need to be able to fill in for somebody
if you're you know, not able to do their job
one day. And so I don't know, I think it's
pretty cool to hear about how you were finding yourself
in that work.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
I completely agree with your perspective on it. And it's
funny because I find myself gaining so much inspiration from
sports from athletes. I watch it religiously. My son now
has taken the sports obsession to a whole nother level.
But I gained and I always have gained inspiration from
(08:25):
the way athletes push their bodies, how mentally tough they are,
the way they have to work with other personalities and collaborate,
and the flow that athletes have to be in. You
can when you're watching a tennis match, you're watching Coco, right,
and you're just like, ooh, she's in the flow right now, right,
That's what we try to achieve on set or on stage.
(08:49):
You know, you try to find that rhythm. It's like
a musician, you know, a jazz band. Yes, they're improving,
they're in tune with their partner, you know. The pianist
can't go too far off without being in vibe with
the basis, right, Like, So there is something about that
dance that that you have to be in with the
(09:12):
cameraman or camera woman, right, like the with your fellow actor.
It's very true, and I love that you you have
that same experience.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, totally, And I think there's something really interesting too.
All these little connections are firing in my brain. Like
you talking about the way you love to research, you know,
for roles, but also for yourself as a person. You know,
reading books on attachment theory figuring out as an adult
(09:43):
where your patterns come from from your childhood. Like, I
think that's especially important for anyone who's a performer, whether
you're a performance artist or a performance athlete, because you
do learn to push yourself to extremes, you do learn
to put the work above all else, and eventually you
(10:04):
have to come to terms with at some point in
your life like, oh, I'm so good at performing, I
might not be feeling and I got to figure out
how to recalibrate that.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Or it might be only allowing myself to feel when
when I'm made for me.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Oh that yeah. And it's interesting, not that I want
this conversation to be about this topic, but I just
hear something in you that something in me recognizes. And
I'm like, I don't know if it's when you've built
your whole beautiful life and then you realize you're not happy.
(10:42):
I think there's a wisdom that comes when women take
up their agency and go through a divorce, as we
both have, Yes, we have, And I'm like, oh, whatever,
the thing is that I've really learned through this construction
and then deconstruction process. I see in you, I see
in you, and I know it's hard, but not to
(11:06):
be cheesy, I'm like, I'm proud of us. We've clearly
done some work. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm proud of us too, because it takes
courage to say I actually need more and I want more,
I deserve more. Yeah, And society doesn't always hold space
for those of us who feel that we're entitled to more,
because it's like, well, you got this, this and this
sit down, shut up, be happy like what you're complaining about, right,
(11:32):
And so it does take a lot of courage to
say I know what my worth is and I know
what I deserve to receive in return. So it's a risk.
I don't know if I'll actually get it in this lifetime,
but I'm I feel that it's I'm worthy enough to try.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
To try that part.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And I don't know if you know. I don't want
to project my experience onto you, but I think, especially
when you do the kind of work that requires so
much of you and you do show up in big ways,
in big spaces, when you know what a high bar
you have forgiving and you realize that bar is not
(12:18):
being met in return, I actually think it's a really
brave thing to say it's not about entitlement, it's not
about it's not even necessarily about that deserving right. It's
about I believe that I'm worse what I give, and
(12:40):
if someone doesn't, you know, how do you let that
person be the closest person to you in your life?
You can't.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
And that could be, that could be a toxic relationship.
That can be your co workers, that can be your
agents or your lawyers, right, you know. I've found things
like that have actually shown up and manifested in several
different ways. Sometimes I find like, oh, it's so hard
for me to let go of people past their exploration date.
(13:10):
It's really hard to just go hard, Oh this relationship
has actually run its course. That was very hard for me.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
It's still hard, but it's less hard.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I've gotten I've walked it out enough, you know, to
be able to detach. But in studying attachment theory, I
noticed my patterns were the inability to detach yes you know,
and go wait, why is that? Like?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
What's that?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
You know? And you do do your own self a
disservice because not everyone is built for a lifetime walk
with you. Sometimes it's a season, or it's a reason.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Or it's a lifetime life done. Yeah, and now a
word from our sponsors that I really enjoy and I
think you will too. I had to really think about
that a lot because I realized, and it's weird, right,
(14:19):
there's something you can love about yourself and also it
can hurt you, Like I don't like to give up
on people, but sometimes that means I'm trying to hold
on to something that no longer exists.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Do you feel that it's holding onto a potential? Like, yeah,
believing the potential and maybe not.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Sometimes And sometimes I think it can be. Really I
think there's a difference between dreaming with someone and the
dream being attainable in this life. You know, I really
did a lot of work around what do I want
the future to feel like? What do I want a
family to feel like? What do I want to build?
(15:02):
And then I built it? But I realized like it
almost I almost felt like I built a house, but
the house was empty, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
And it.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Was a house and it was great. It was like
Pinterest's perfect house. But I think, particularly again as performers
and also as women, like, at least for me, I
can see all that stuff. I can see the attachment theory.
I can see what I learned that was good and
bad from my parents and their relationship, from generational family stuff.
(15:36):
I can see what I took from societal messaging, and
I can go, oh, I get I get why I
really tried to be as like responsible as possible and
make this plan. But if the if the plan is hollow,
if the house is empty, like, don't you want to
go fill it? And so I don't know. I think
(15:57):
I think there's a really important shift that's happened. Certainly,
I really see it over the last decade, like we
could have this conversation, you know, over a bottle of
wine with friends. Over the last decade, I've seen far
more people, and I think it had a little to
do with me too, you know, far more people say
(16:20):
these things are not right at work. And then a
lot of people, once they started talking about the right
and wrong in their life, were like, oh, I might
actually have to talk about my life. Also, if I
only send her work and I don't send her my life,
what am I doing? And so I always think it's
interesting when us artists hit whatever point we hit where
(16:41):
we realize, oh, I have to pour into myself the
way I pour into my work, the way I pour
into my characters, the way I pour into my people.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah. Do you think it's a deeper resonance that desire
to model worth and what you deserve and the right
kind of life because you're also doing it for your son.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yes, the stakes are definitely higher. I find after having
a child who learns so much more from your choices
than what you say to them. He learns so much
more from how I move through life, how I deal
with disappointment or sadness, by watching you, by watching me,
he learns so much about work ethic by watching me.
(17:27):
He has now these goals and these ambitions, and it's
beautiful because he relates it back and he kind of
mirrors himself to me. He's starting to do that in
ways that I was like, oh my gosh, Like I
don't know why I thought, and it probably is my
own bias, but I thought, like, oh, if I had
(17:50):
a daughter, they would probably mirror. But no, I mean,
like he looks at me and it's like small things,
you know, Like he wants to get six pack, So
he's like, Mami, teach me how to get a six pack,
you know, but he's yeah, he watches my behavior a
lot and is influenced by that. So the stakes are yes,
(18:13):
way higher now, and I feel like the greatest gift
I can give him is being my whole self. Alfred
Wooded long ago gave me this book called Whole Parent,
Whole Child, and it's a beautiful book and it talks
essentially about that of you cannot be able to pour
(18:34):
into your child and raise them to be their full
best self if you yourself or not.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yes, there is a stat A friend sent me a
video that actually said that the highest predicting determinator of
an adult's happiness is how happy their mother was.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I've read that in their childhood. Yes, I've read that
somewhere and major. It is major, because you know what
I found very early in Hunter's childhood, I was dealing
and struggling with major mom guilt. You know, I nursed
(19:15):
him for three years. I gave birth to him in
my bathtub. I was like, yo, I'm a dude, like
my mom was. She gave birth to all six of us,
natural childbirth. You know, nursed us, didn't believe in extending
extended nursing, and so like a lot of her philosophies
and her standards, right, I was holding myself too.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
My mom's situation was so different and very unique.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Right. She didn't have to ever have someone on set
with us watching us because she was behind the camera
and we were the ones in front. And so in
my situation, I'm the one in front, and so I'm going, well,
you know, I want Hunter on set with me. I'm nursing.
He refused a bottle because he got hype to it, right.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
He got smart too.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
He got him to the fact that, okay, like around
six months, I remember, it was like, okay, if I
take this bottle from my aunt, that means mommy might
go to Target.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
So he started boycotting the bottle, right, smart, really smart.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
It's like, oh, I see how I'm gonna get the
I want.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
And he's like, I'm not doing this. She's not passing
me to Aunty, your uncle or to daddy. It's gonna
be her. I went directly from the source, you know.
And so he start started refusing the bottle. And so,
you know, me shooting Lovecraft Country or Birds of Prey
doing stunt rehearsal, he's right there, you know, in the
(20:44):
trailer or at rehearsal, and I had to have help,
and I felt so much guilt about the fact that, like,
oh my gosh, I got to go and do this scene.
It's a really emotionally challenging scene. So for the next
hour or so, I need him to stay in the trailer.
He can't com on set because he can't see Mommy.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Like that, right, Like you need to focus and I.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Need to focus, and I need to do your right,
I need to do my work. But I dealt with
a lot of mom guilt that wasn't processed and I
didn't really know where to put it. And it really
was that philosophy of that book of giving yourself the
approval to feed into your well, to do your to
(21:29):
pursue your passions, to take the bath where you need
to take the bath, to go to target when you
need to just have alone time, right or whatever. That
thing is giving yourself the approval to do that, knowing
that if you don't, you will run out of gas.
And that doesn't help him, and that helps no one.
(21:50):
That serves no one. There's no Mommy Olympics, there's no
reward that you're winning at the end of the year,
exactly as it's sacrificing. Yeah, exactly, and it's a marathon,
it's not a sprint. You need to have endurance in
order to be present with him and play with him.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
And it's okay, you know, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
For him to see me pursue my dreams. It's actually
a beautiful thing for him to see the sacrifice that
I make for my work and how hard I work.
It's okay for him to see the image of a
woman being the bread winner. It's okay for him to
see me being ambitious and passionate and going, baby, you
(22:34):
know what. Right now, Mommy has to go in this
room and I have to study this scene. But when
I finish, I'm gonna come out and we're gonna play catch.
Right Like, giving him those boundaries in the parameters I
think is healthy. And I've had to process and give
and be kind to myself over the past few years,
because of course there's moments where he's like, no, why
(22:59):
you you know, And there's sacrifices that my work requires
that he make. Yeah, but there's also a lot of
benefits that he gained from from what mommy does and
the kind of life I can provide for him, the
travel that he's he's been able to be a part
of I mean, like he went to the Steve Irwin
Zoo in Australia, got a private tour that's a pet
(23:23):
of rhino DJ the rhino he got to pet, you know,
like all these experiences. He got to meet Steph Curry
last year. Hello, okay. And so as he gets older,
he's slowly starting to appreciate what I do and actually
find respect for it and gratitude. And that is a
(23:45):
real muscle that I'm trying to strengthen in him, which
is hard in kids, And it's hard in kids who
grow up with a lot, you know, to understand that yo,
to whom much is given much as affected. Right, So
like we gotta give back, we gotta go and volunteer,
we gotta yeah, we gotta do all these things because
(24:08):
look how blessed we are. Man.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It makes me think about something. What a crazy sentence
I'm about to say. I don't know. A month and
a half ago, I think we had Michelle Obama on
the pod. I was literally like, what is happening? And
I asked her about motherhood and she said that her
mother had this phrase that you know, has echoed for
(24:33):
her whole life. I'm not raising babies. I'm raising adults, amen,
And that thing to to give your kid evolving agency
as they evolve, to show them how you move in
the world as an adult, as a responsible parent, as
(24:54):
a dedicated worker, as a volunteer, as a human that
for you, your little boy always knows he can come to
like that raises a generation of adults. And I think about,
at least for me, you know, my parents didn't know
(25:14):
any of the stuff we know now about how to
raise babies, how to talk to them, what to do
for them.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
They didn't have the language or the tools, and a
lot of the research wasn't done yet, you know, all
the things.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
And I think about the learning and the unlearning that
our generation has had to do.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Unlearning is very key. Unlearn a lot, a whole.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Lot, oh boy. And I just think about, like how
cool our kids are going to be when they're our
age because they've just had more resources and information and
opportunity to imagine themselves in these spaces they see you
or or us in evolution. It's cool. Yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Out for our sponsors thinking about family and like, you know,
the examples we set you talk about how your mom
was the one behind the camera, you know, and it
led into this amazing world for all of your siblings.
I mean, six kids and y'all are all in this
(26:20):
industry in some facet.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Does that not all anymore? But at a point, at
a point, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
When was that this amazing thing when you got to
do this show together? But then as y'all started growing
and going out into the world and working in these
different arenas, did it almost mean you got to spend
less time together as a family.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Oh no, honestly, we were like we were We were
like a pack a herd.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
That oh you everyone went together, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Like my mom if one of us got a gig,
right like a movie or TV show, instead of her
flying there. It got to a point where she would
ask the studio for the money that they were going
to spend on the flights. Give her the cash, and
she would drive us all there in the suburban. I mean,
(27:09):
she was she was. She was gangster, you know, she's
very strategic, she was very smart. But also she had
no one to watch us we did. It's not like
we had a lot of friends or extended family. She
didn't have people she could leave us with. And my
parents separated when I was twelve, and so I have
to say, I think that's one of the reasons why
(27:31):
we might. I'm so close with my siblings. There's six
of us, and I have five best friends in them.
I mean, it's when I say, I can show you
my text threads of like the sibling text chain, it
just it just girl just comes in. Everyone's always talking,
like the conversation is always you know, We're just so close.
But we were alway had you know. And if I
(27:54):
had an audition, then Jazz was doing my hair and
Jake was maybe making the you know, and Jesse was
running my lines with me like it. It really was
this this beautiful microcosm of everyone supporting everyone. There was
(28:15):
no jealousy, there was no competition. It just was not allowed,
and everyone was expected to serve the cause, the mission.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And it really was I.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Think about survival because when you think about it, this
became the family business. This became the income. It became
the way we were able to take care of each other.
My father mom separated, like I said, when I was twelve.
He worked for Pacific bell at and t He was
a blue collar worker. He didn't he didn't make enough
(28:46):
to support us, and certainly didn't you know, give enough
child support to support us. It became something where it
was us kids going out and working and my mom
finding us gigs and us living paycheck paycheck in a sense,
until you know, my brothers got older and they started
working regular jobs to contribute. But you know it, it
(29:09):
was I don't even remember what your original question was.
I feel like I'm going on the tangent. But I
think that's that's one of the beautiful things about very
unconventional childhood. Yes, she was behind the camera, but I
learned so much about the industry from her. You know,
she just was so unwilling to sacrifice certain things and
(29:36):
unwilling to sell integrity, unwilling to just take things because
they were paying really good. You know, I was offered
a number of jobs that she said no to that
where it was either with someone who was a really
awful person, and it would have put me in a
(29:57):
very compromising situation getting me out of a very awful
and toxic work environment. And yes, but like I said before,
she was behind the camera.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Yeah, you know, yeah, I mean it's such a lesson
in you know, business.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yes, and remembering like, no matter how cool the set
is or the job is or whatever, like it's business
and I love that, you know, y'all have been able
to stay so close. I ask because I think about
how much I love what we do, but how often
it takes me away from the people I want to
be close to.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Oh no, it's so true. It's like, yesterday, my TV
show Smoke premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival, which is
very exciting, awesome. It played so well, but it was
also the same day of my niece's fifth grade graduation,
you know, and so everyone sending me pictures of her,
and you know, I'm I tried to face time. But yes,
(31:04):
that for sure is part of the sacrifices is missing
out on How many birthdays or primary moments are you missing?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
How did it feel to premiere the show here?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
It was a full circle moment? Yeah, yeah, yeah, in
a number of ways. You know, when you work on
something for so long and then it's like your little secret,
it's your little baby that you've birthed, and then you
get to share it with the world. So it was awesome.
(31:42):
It was awesome to watch it in front of an
audience and get the feedback and it played incredibly well.
You know, it was quite thrilling.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, okay, will you tell our friends at home what
Smoke is?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
So. Smoke is a crime thriller for Apple TV Plus
at premiere is June twenty seventh, created by Dennis Lahane,
one of our premier writers. I mean, I don't know
that you can write crime thriller better than Dennis. And
I've been a fan of his since Mystic River and
(32:22):
you know, Gone, Baby Gone, and Shutter Island and so
many Blackbird which was on Apple as well, But anyway,
it's based on true events in which an arson investigator
played by Tarren Edgerton is paired with a trouble detective
(32:42):
played by myself, and they are assigned to investigate to
serial arsonists and through this investigation begin to suspect that
each other are not who they can claim to be.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
That's so juicy. Also crazy fun fact because when I
was reading up on the show, it centers around John
Orr and back in the day, I played his daughter
in a movie with Rayleoda.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Wait what yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
So of all the like things wait be talking about today? Guy,
it was like, I think it was maybe my second
job I was at USC and it filmed in LA
and I would drive from class and I would go
to shoot this movie and I was on set with
Raleiota and John Likeguizamo, who I just.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Who's in our show?
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Like?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Come on? Like this is so it's crazy. So I'm
so excited to see it, you know because as a
young actor to think about, like, you know, how do
you imagine what this sort of story would do to
a kid when this happens in your family? And now
I get to watch my friend be on the adult
side investigating it. I know that's crazy. I know it's
(34:14):
so fun.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Wow full circle.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Come on, Yeah, it's really really it's so cool.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Because he was an interesting person. Yeah, they're the podcast
Firebug that this is loosely inspired by is wild. If
anyone wants to.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Listen to I'm like, wait, I want to listen to that.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
You should listen to it. It's he was writing a book,
you know, about an artison investigator who's secretly an arsonist,
and so that element is in our show as well.
But it's Dennis really has created of a heightened and
(35:00):
fictionalized version of that, and my character is really the
birth child of Dennis's mind. You know, when I met
with him, one of the first things he said, one
of the earlier things he said to me, was, you know,
we all say we want to be happy, and yet
why are we consumed by the very things that want
(35:21):
to destroy us? And that's my character in a nutshell.
She is metaphorically playing with fire. I mean, there are
these elements in her life that are just dangerous that
she's drawn to. And it's interesting because I know, I
don't know that it's unique to me, but I definitely
(35:42):
can see myself and those struggles in the past right
like where you are going. I know this is not
healthy for me, but I'm choosing it anyway, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Hoping that it doesn't turn out how I'm afraid it will,
and it does.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
It's like when you're blind, faith or your desire to
see the good just bites you in the ass. Yes.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Yes, And that manifests in so many different ways, totally
a toxic relationship. It could be our toxic, toxic level
of ambition being a workaholic.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
It could be the childhood.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Trauma that we still have in process and the way
that manifests. And so Dennis has woven all these very
complex layers into my character Michelle, who's a detective, former
marine who finds herself in a relationship with her boss,
(36:39):
who's the captain of the precinct, who's married.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Oh boy who leaves.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
His wife for her, only for Michelle to then say
she no longer wants to be with him now, and
going back to attachment theory, you know, I spoke to
a therapist just specifically about Michelle, and she's very much
so an avoidant, which I am not. You know, I've
(37:09):
historically I've been attracted to avoidance. Guilty is charge.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I had a couple of those myself, and.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
So it was so fun to weave those elements into Michelle,
someone who has she has real childhood trauma, she has
a mother wound, a deep betrayal that happened when she
was young with her mother, and it was beautiful to
(37:39):
be able to weave that in to the way she
sees the world, the way she attaches and detaches in
those patterns.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, how do you how do you begin to build
a world for a character? And I like, I want
to ask you this question that I like to ask
because I know you're a research nerd, and so am I. So,
I'm like, girl, tell me about your good Like, where
where do you start? You know, when you make when
you get this information? Former marine now a detective making
(38:07):
bad choices, probably a little addicted to the chase. You
get this nugget, I would imagine, because Dennis is brilliant. Yeah,
her childhood, Like how do you begin to build her house?
Speaker 3 (38:19):
I begin answering all the whys and the who, what, where, why? When?
So that's really where I start. Yeah, you know, what
do I know about her environment? What does the text
tell me? I fill that in in her biography and
any holes that the text doesn't tell me, I go
to the source, screenwriter Dennis Lahane in this case, ask
(38:42):
him questions pick his brain of Okay, so what happened
to her? What is this? Why does she do this?
And all the questions he gives me. Any holes left,
I fill in myself through research, through either speaking through experts.
In this case, I spoke to not just therapists, but
(39:02):
I spoke to former Marines. I trained with a former
a veteran who served in the military. Just had to
be an expert and weaponry honestly, because she deals with
guns a lot. I interviewed firefighters and arson investigators. I
read the Firebug podcasts, you know, watch documentaries, which then
(39:27):
leads you to other films of this topic. And so honestly,
it's really about filling up the well. And then I
also just have several coaches that I work with. I
have a physicality coach, I have, you know, my acting coach.
I have my fitness trainer. And for this I'm normally
(39:51):
journey I can my weight. I can tend to be
a little bit on the leaner side. And so because
she's a form a marine who is working in a
very male dominated field, who has a little bit of
body dysmorphia, who dealt with insecurity from her weight when
(40:12):
she was a child, it manifests through her doing these
crazy intense workouts. So I went to my trainer, Jeannette Jenkins,
and was like, I gotta put on muscle. I gotta
put on weight. And so I put on fifteen pounds
of muscle before we started shooting. By the end of shooting,
I had put on twenty pounds. Wow. Crazy way of
(40:33):
eating of like eating five meals a day.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
I was going to say, were you just like taking
hard boiled eggs to the face.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Like oh my gosh, and like these protein powders and
like the weight gainer shakes, and yeah, just eating in
between takes and snacking all the time and trying to
have a calorie surplus, but doing it in the right
way and the healthy way as much as I could.
I wasn't eating donuts and doing it like that, you know,
which I would have loved, but also break out, so
(41:01):
I had to like watch the skin, you know, And yeah,
it was it was. It was awesome to be able
to just physically transform and feel stronger because that was
the goal.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Is Okay, then you feel like this person.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yes, there's a there's a dominant presence that she needed
to have when she walks in her room. Yes, and
you know, how does she what's her posture? How does
she walk? Like what's her gait? All those things are affected,
you know when you feel stronger, And man, Janette, she
got me. She got me up to I could do
(41:43):
a hack squat squat of lifting two hundred and sixty
pounds by the time we were done, and she got
me feeling incredibly strong.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
So that's so cool.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Yeah, we'll be.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Back in just a minute. After a few words, from
our favorite sponsors. When you think about that, you know,
love for research. One of the things I love about
the way you speak about your work is that you're
never afraid to shy away from real themes that are
(42:18):
in it, especially when you're doing a lot of these
historical projects, you know, whether it's the Order or love
Craft Country like it. It offers, I think, the opportunity
to share history and even things that are loosely based
on history, to invite an audience in and to encourage
(42:40):
them not to shy away from who we are from.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
You know, and how we got here.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yes, you can uncover the things that as a society
we often want to tuck away, like in the corner.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Keep in the dark.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
And how do you kind of layer the historically relevant
jobs with your love of process, Like do you ask
a director to put you in touch with the historian
or is it very much the similar thing where everything
you find in the research leads you to another thing
(43:16):
and you're just trying to get as much of it
in your brain and body as you can by the
time the camera roles.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
When I did the Order, I did ask them to
put me in touch with a few former special agents,
which they did. It depends on the project, and yeah,
who can help me and who's a resource? Production is
typically very beneficial in that way and have a lot
(43:45):
of resources at their disposal and encourage that sort of
research for you. Yeah, but a lot of it is
self motivated, and you're right, it is. Okay. It could
be a YouTube clip that makes you down a path
and then that leads you to something else, And it
really comes down to the level of curiosity the individual has.
(44:08):
And I have an immense amount of curiosity about humanity
and what drives us and what motivates us. It just
helps me understand my own life more. And I do
think that as part of the reason that I do
what I do. Storytelling to me and art is essential
(44:28):
because it helps us understand humanity.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
If we understood.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Patterns in history more, I think we wouldn't be where
we are today. I agree with you. You know, if
more of us knew about unfortunately Nazi Germany, right, like,
we would be able to recognize real rhetoric and real
talk of a dictator.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Currently right wouldn't be saying oh no, it's not that,
because it is. And literally the quotes.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Match, literally match, okay, And so I do feel like
it's the job of the artist to just tell the truth.
And how do you tell the truth? You just do
the research, right, you dig deeper, you ask the questions.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
And you know what you're carrying into the room with you.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Yes, exactly. It gives you more confidence. I find in
the times when, like when I was younger and I
don't know that I had as much technique as I
do now, those moments I think I can watch the
work and go, oh, I see why I was there
(45:41):
because I didn't know you had to do this and
this and this, you know. But I also have to
say I give so much credit to a lot of
the individuals I've actually worked with along my career that
I just kind of stole there their technique really, you know,
asking them questions, Okay, well how do you do this? Well?
(46:03):
Why do you do this? And then going all right,
I'm gonna try that out.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
What's one of the best answers you've gotten to that question,
Like from someone you have worked with who you admire,
what was a Oh, that's really good.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Denzel Washington, Oh, great debaters. He directed the film that
I was in, and it was like taking a masterclass
and he a lot of the tools. I mean, I
literally you know, when you're working with someone like Denzel
you better keep a note on notes and literally taking
notes every single day of what he says or how
(46:36):
he directs me or little nuggets he gives me. And
it was you know him who first told me about
this idea of writing a biography for your character. Knowing
everything about your character, even down to the kind of
sheets they sleep on, what do they eat for breakfast.
It helps you think like the character, so that on
(46:58):
the day, whether you're improving or or not having no dialogue,
there's something going on in your head. Yes, because if
you're thinking about the boom operator whose shirt is like
rising up as the hoad in the.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Boom, or like sorry, you've got to pull that tea down.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Or if you're thinking about the fact that the director's
eating the donut that you wish you could eat right now,
but you're not gonna do it. You know, if your
if your head is not actually thinking the thoughts of
the character, the camera will see it. You can just
get lost. And it's and it's it's like a bliss
or euphoria, yes, that you are able to feel.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Absolutely it's it's like a feeling of weightlessness.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Yeah, when you're in the flow.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, it's beautiful when you think about that, like the
joy of what we do. Being in that flow. You
can obviously reflect on the people you've worked with and
the sets you've worked on, continued to build your toolkit.
Do you feel like, looking back, there is a role
(48:07):
you've played that in hindsight you realize changed you in
a way that you didn't expect.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
I really have developed a very spiritual relationship to my
instrument and I really feel that all of them come
to me in a moment that I need them the most,
(48:35):
in a moment when there's something in myself I have
to exercise through them. There's something that I'm struggling with,
there's a pattern I'm in, or there's a block, you know,
in the pipes, And so.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
I wouldn't pick one.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
I think they're all an evolution and if you pull
out one of them, I wouldn't be who I am
or where I am today. Even the bad ones, you know,
you learn a lot from the bad ones totally, and
even the toxic environments. Dare I say I learned at
(49:11):
a very early age how to recognize toxicity how to
recognize how adults enable toxicity being in environments where it's
like you know, when you're a child. In the industry, unfortunately,
any child is going to be exposed to certain adult
behavior they shouldn't be. And I learned a way of
(49:35):
protecting myself and recognizing it. And so I am honestly
grateful for it all. Yeah, and that might for some
people strike you know, accord as like odd, but I
truly am grateful for it all. It has created me,
and it has given me tools in my craft, in
(49:58):
my character and my characters, but like my actual character,
it has built my own character. You know, Yes, I
feel that.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Too, And you know yes, working with wonderful people teaches
you where to set the bar. But the toxic experiences
I do think are invaluable. Would I wish them on anyone,
but what it teaches you, you know, I know I.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
Know what to look out for.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
In a way I could not had I not seen
the bad side. I am a better co star and
producer because I know what bad ones look like.
Speaker 4 (50:47):
Yes, And I do think if you choose to take
what you wouldn't wish on someone else, and what maybe
you wish you didn't have to experience, but turn it
into a learning.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
At exactly fuel you and it can.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Actually support people around you in an even better way. Yes,
And that I just think is how we figure out
how to make lemonade out of lemons.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
Right, Yes, And I really I feel it's so important
for us to lift up the ones who are not
that way. I remember I was doing the Burial with
Jamie Fox.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
He is who's lovelier than him?
Speaker 3 (51:27):
I mean, come on, come onliest, the loveliest, generous, I mean,
pours into everyone. He produced it along with his producing
partner Tatari Turner and Fox Hold their company produced it.
They made sure that the majority, if not all, of
the department heads were women. It was a woman director
(51:48):
and writer woman DP like, I mean, unbelievable set. Right.
But there was a moment we were doing a scene
and there was someone on set who disrespect did a
crew member, and Jamie stopped the take and he gave
a long speech about how we will not tolerate anyone
(52:13):
disrespecting anyone. There is no rank. We are all linked.
He said, it was so beautiful to see this man
who's I mean, this man is so talented. He's a
freaking alien. He's so talented, but to see him hold
everyone accountable in such a gracious and beautiful way. I mean,
it was a moment I'll never forget. Like as great
(52:36):
as his performance is in that movie, and it is phenomenal,
and I loved you know, it's a joy to work
alongside him. It was that one moment that I will
remember the most though.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
That's what makes you love him forever, right right?
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah, absolutely, And I just say, beauty.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Of what he does, it's the beauty of who he.
Speaker 3 (52:54):
Is, amen, And it's why he can have longevity. It's
why he can have you know, he's at the top
of the top of the game still, right and having
done it for decades. And so yeah, I think I
think all of the experiences I welcome because it has
(53:16):
taught me and it has made me grow.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yeah, I love it. Well, when you think about what's next,
I mean, like you said, the you know, the show premierees,
it's like your baby goes out into the world. But
also it's it's done. You know, it's finished, and then
you're onto the next, whether it's a personal thing or
a professional thing. Like as you look out at what's coming,
(53:40):
what feels like You're a work in progress.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
That's really good. I really am on the vision board.
It is about becoming very intentional with stepping behind the camera, producing, directing,
ushering forward store worries whether I'm in them or not.
I don't need to be the but like helping to
(54:05):
expand the gaze of who gets to tell our stories,
who gets to define who we are as women, who
we are as others? Right, Like, I am not interested
in continuing to complain about the problem if I'm not
going to help solve it. And I see that we
(54:27):
have come so far in the industry. You know, I
don't know that decades ago I would have been able
to even have the opportunity to play a role like
Michelle in Smoke, who is so layered and complex and flawed.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
It would have been you mean, she wasn't described as
likable girl, I write the word to the ground right, right.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
And that she can be many things, and she can
make really questionably ambiguous, she can make morally ambiguous choices right,
and and she doesn't have to be all knowing or
all strong. I mean the strong strong women. Come on,
I'm over it.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
A strong black woman, I like bored with it and
can just.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
Give me flaws because flaws are truthful.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Let us be messy, let.
Speaker 3 (55:23):
Us be messy, let us break the law, let us,
you know, run away from the person we should actually
be with. Let us do all the self sabotage of
the world. Because I want to see myself up there.
I want my niece to see herself up there. I
want my friends to see themselves up there. Like I'm
not interested in the girlfriend who has to be the
(55:49):
ear for the man's plot being pushed forward, right, But
I'm also not interested in the robot who's all powerful
and all good, because none of us are, you know.
So that is my intention is to work with filmmakers
and collaborators who push me, who helped me grow. I
(56:12):
just want to continue to grow and be better. Growing up,
my mom always had me reading these biographies of the
greats like Catherine have burned me, you know, her autobiography,
and studying their patterns. And you're not going to have
(56:32):
longevity if you stay stuck and rigid and doing the
same thing. How are you evolving and changing? And That's
what I'm interested in, being a work in progress.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
I love it. Well. Congrats on the show and all
the things. Really happy for you.
Speaker 3 (56:55):
Thank you. I'm very very proud of you. This is
a beautiful platform you have. Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
We enjoy it. We got good people over here. Come
back anytime.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
I will be back, Okay,
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome
back to Work in Progress friends. This week we are
joined by an actor who I admire so much. Today's
(00:22):
guest is none other than Janny Smale. She is an
American actress born here in New York, one of six siblings,
and she has been working in film and television since
she was a little girl. Known for her roles in Lovecraft, Country,
Birds of Prey, Underground, and True Blood, she is here
to discuss her brand new Apple TV show, Smoke. The
(00:46):
show centers around an arson investigator who begrudgingly teams up
with a police detective as they race to stop two arsonists.
It is a twisted game of secrets and suspicions, and
journey stars opposite tarn Edgerton in this incredible thriller. Today
we're going to talk about what it was like to
(01:07):
film the show, work with the iconic Dennis Lahne, and
a lot about what it means to juggle this life
performing and acting and traveling and creating with motherhood and
self discovery. And you'll hear a little bit about the
lessons the two of us have learned along the way.
Let's dive in with my friend Journey. Hi, honey, I'm
(01:41):
so happy you're here, my love. How are you.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I'm happy to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
It's been forever.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
I know, it's been a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
You look fabulous. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
You look fabulous. This press tour is working.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Oh well, you know, I got a team of experts
helping it work.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
We need it, especially when you got little ones at home.
It's like somebody helped me. Look like I've.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Slept right right, And then you know, the press to word,
it's almost like you're running a marathon. As you know,
you just sit in that room and you get asked a.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Lot, and you got to make them feel fresh every time. Yeah,
oh I feel it. Well, I'm excited about the projects.
But before we talk about, you know, what's happening in
life at the moment, I want to go backwards a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Okay, how far back are we go?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Like all the way back?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Which is fun for you, especially because you've been working
since you were a baby. But I always wonder, like
when I sit with somebody, whether I know them or
I'm just meeting them, whoever sits in that chair has
an impressive resume, Some cool new project like something in
the world. And I wonder if you could go back
in time and hang out with your little self at
(02:55):
seven or eight years old, do you think the woman
you are today would see herself in that little girl?
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Oh? Yes, because I actually meditate on that little girl
a lot. Really, Yeah, because I do believe so much
of what we're doing is in response to our childhood,
you know. And I'm one of those nerds who you know,
I'm reading books on attachment theory and you know me too, Yeah,
(03:24):
so you feel me, you know. And so like all
of the primary attachments we had and the core memories
we had during those moments, I think about, you know,
just in how I see the world. It's also how
I construct characters, you know, when I'm approaching them in
(03:46):
my work. But yeah, that little girl, I mean, she
she was. She was a lot of fun. She was.
She was a lot of fun. There was a lot
going on around me when I was six or seven,
how so, Okay, so I think around that age my
famly I was I was doing full House, or I
(04:10):
had just finished doing Full House, and my family had
been I had been offered by the producers of Full House, offered,
you know, your seven to do a spinoff of Full House.
You know, my character resonated with.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Folks for some reason, I you know, but.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
My pay grade. And so my mom said no to
the spinoff, and she said, I've got six kids at
the time, she had five and one on the way.
And she was like, I ain't doing no more damn
TV unless they're all in the same show, because y'all
got me running around with all these different kids, and
I'm trying to be everywhere with all of them. She
(04:50):
was very protective, very hands on. We never had a
nanny or anyone else watch us other than her, and
she was stretched thin. And so the producers, Bob Boyette,
Miller Boyette, they said, wait, there's more, bring them all in,
and so they gave us all our own TV show.
She had us go into this meeting that happened. Yes,
(05:13):
she had us go into this meeting. We performed Shut
Him Down by Public Enemy.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I was Flavor flav Oh, I did the Flavor Flav verse.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I don't even know. Maybe I had a clock around
my neck. I don't know. A room full of white
men at Warner Brothers, and she had us perform this
very militant song and they gave us our own TV show,
all six even the baby that was Bacon in the oven.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Oh my god, this is amazing.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Yeah. So there was a lot a lot going on
around me, a lot of excitement during that time, a
lot of newness for the first time, Like we moved
into a house that was really nice, remember that, you know. So, yeah,
that's snapshot of my life during that time.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Wow. And did you love it? Did you love acting? Performing?
Even from a young age.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
I always did. I was always performing at home. My
mom loved musicals and old films. Sound of music probably
was on repeat throughout my childhood. American in Paris. You
know Gene Kelly, fred Astaire sid Cherise. I always wanted
to be, said Cherise with those long legs, you know.
(06:32):
And so she would put she would put down plywood
on the floor in our apartment in Elmhurst, Queens, and
she got me some tap dance shoes. Me and my
brother Jesse was just tap dance all the time to
these musicals. So, I know, I always loved the art
of performing and that exchange that you get when you're
(06:56):
performing for someone, right, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Oh, it's so interesting because especially I think for a
kid learning any skill like that that really puts you
in your body. It gives you a sense of agency
really early. You know, you understand that you are capable
similar to sport.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
And I like it to sports too. Yeah, I like
in it to little league.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, absolutely, little league AISO, like whatever it is. I
think what we know that maybe folks who don't work
in this industry might be a little misled about, is
that when you are an actor or a performer, a musician,
you know, whatever you do like you're part.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Of a team.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You're in a cast, you work with a whole big.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Crew of collaborators.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yes, like it's team sports, and you've got to learn
how to support the team, but also stay in your lane.
You need to be able to fill in for somebody
if you're you know, not able to do their job
one day. And so I don't know, I think it's
pretty cool to hear about how you were finding yourself
in that work.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
I completely agree with your perspective on it. And it's
funny because I find myself gaining so much inspiration from
sports from athletes. I watch it religiously. My son now
has taken the sports obsession to a whole nother level.
But I gained and I always have gained inspiration from
(08:25):
the way athletes push their bodies, how mentally tough they are,
the way they have to work with other personalities and collaborate,
and the flow that athletes have to be in. You
can when you're watching a tennis match, you're watching Coco, right,
and you're just like, ooh, she's in the flow right now, right,
That's what we try to achieve on set or on stage.
(08:49):
You know, you try to find that rhythm. It's like
a musician, you know, a jazz band. Yes, they're improving,
they're in tune with their partner, you know. The pianist
can't go too far off without being in vibe with
the basis, right, Like, So there is something about that
dance that that you have to be in with the
(09:12):
cameraman or camera woman, right, like the with your fellow actor.
It's very true, and I love that you you have
that same experience.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, totally, And I think there's something really interesting too.
All these little connections are firing in my brain. Like
you talking about the way you love to research, you know,
for roles, but also for yourself as a person. You know,
reading books on attachment theory figuring out as an adult
(09:43):
where your patterns come from from your childhood. Like, I
think that's especially important for anyone who's a performer, whether
you're a performance artist or a performance athlete, because you
do learn to push yourself to extremes, you do learn
to put the work above all else, and eventually you
(10:04):
have to come to terms with at some point in
your life like, oh, I'm so good at performing, I
might not be feeling and I got to figure out
how to recalibrate that.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Or it might be only allowing myself to feel when
when I'm made for me.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Oh that yeah. And it's interesting, not that I want
this conversation to be about this topic, but I just
hear something in you that something in me recognizes. And
I'm like, I don't know if it's when you've built
your whole beautiful life and then you realize you're not happy.
(10:42):
I think there's a wisdom that comes when women take
up their agency and go through a divorce, as we
both have, Yes, we have, And I'm like, oh, whatever,
the thing is that I've really learned through this construction
and then deconstruction process. I see in you, I see
in you, and I know it's hard, but not to
(11:06):
be cheesy, I'm like, I'm proud of us. We've clearly
done some work. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah, Yeah, I'm proud of us too, because it takes
courage to say I actually need more and I want more,
I deserve more. Yeah, And society doesn't always hold space
for those of us who feel that we're entitled to more,
because it's like, well, you got this, this and this
sit down, shut up, be happy like what you're complaining about, right,
(11:32):
And so it does take a lot of courage to
say I know what my worth is and I know
what I deserve to receive in return. So it's a risk.
I don't know if I'll actually get it in this lifetime,
but I'm I feel that it's I'm worthy enough to try.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
To try that part.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And I don't know if you know. I don't want
to project my experience onto you, but I think, especially
when you do the kind of work that requires so
much of you and you do show up in big ways,
in big spaces, when you know what a high bar
you have forgiving and you realize that bar is not
(12:18):
being met in return, I actually think it's a really
brave thing to say it's not about entitlement, it's not
about it's not even necessarily about that deserving right. It's
about I believe that I'm worse what I give, and
(12:40):
if someone doesn't, you know, how do you let that
person be the closest person to you in your life?
You can't.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
And that could be, that could be a toxic relationship.
That can be your co workers, that can be your
agents or your lawyers, right, you know. I've found things
like that have actually shown up and manifested in several
different ways. Sometimes I find like, oh, it's so hard
for me to let go of people past their exploration date.
(13:10):
It's really hard to just go hard, Oh this relationship
has actually run its course. That was very hard for me.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
It's still hard, but it's less hard.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I've gotten I've walked it out enough, you know, to
be able to detach. But in studying attachment theory, I
noticed my patterns were the inability to detach yes you know,
and go wait, why is that? Like?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
What's that?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
You know? And you do do your own self a
disservice because not everyone is built for a lifetime walk
with you. Sometimes it's a season, or it's a reason.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Or it's a lifetime life done. Yeah, and now a
word from our sponsors that I really enjoy and I
think you will too. I had to really think about
that a lot because I realized, and it's weird, right,
(14:19):
there's something you can love about yourself and also it
can hurt you, Like I don't like to give up
on people, but sometimes that means I'm trying to hold
on to something that no longer exists.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Do you feel that it's holding onto a potential? Like, yeah,
believing the potential and maybe not.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Sometimes And sometimes I think it can be. Really I
think there's a difference between dreaming with someone and the
dream being attainable in this life. You know, I really
did a lot of work around what do I want
the future to feel like? What do I want a
family to feel like? What do I want to build?
(15:02):
And then I built it? But I realized like it
almost I almost felt like I built a house, but
the house was empty, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
And it.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Was a house and it was great. It was like
Pinterest's perfect house. But I think, particularly again as performers
and also as women, like, at least for me, I
can see all that stuff. I can see the attachment theory.
I can see what I learned that was good and
bad from my parents and their relationship, from generational family stuff.
(15:36):
I can see what I took from societal messaging, and
I can go, oh, I get I get why I
really tried to be as like responsible as possible and
make this plan. But if the if the plan is hollow,
if the house is empty, like, don't you want to
go fill it? And so I don't know. I think
(15:57):
I think there's a really important shift that's happened. Certainly,
I really see it over the last decade, like we
could have this conversation, you know, over a bottle of
wine with friends. Over the last decade, I've seen far
more people, and I think it had a little to
do with me too, you know, far more people say
(16:20):
these things are not right at work. And then a
lot of people, once they started talking about the right
and wrong in their life, were like, oh, I might
actually have to talk about my life. Also, if I
only send her work and I don't send her my life,
what am I doing? And so I always think it's
interesting when us artists hit whatever point we hit where
(16:41):
we realize, oh, I have to pour into myself the
way I pour into my work, the way I pour
into my characters, the way I pour into my people.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah. Do you think it's a deeper resonance that desire
to model worth and what you deserve and the right
kind of life because you're also doing it for your son.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yes, the stakes are definitely higher. I find after having
a child who learns so much more from your choices
than what you say to them. He learns so much
more from how I move through life, how I deal
with disappointment or sadness, by watching you, by watching me,
he learns so much about work ethic by watching me.
(17:27):
He has now these goals and these ambitions, and it's
beautiful because he relates it back and he kind of
mirrors himself to me. He's starting to do that in
ways that I was like, oh my gosh, Like I
don't know why I thought, and it probably is my
own bias, but I thought, like, oh, if I had
(17:50):
a daughter, they would probably mirror. But no, I mean,
like he looks at me and it's like small things,
you know, Like he wants to get six pack, So
he's like, Mami, teach me how to get a six pack,
you know, but he's yeah, he watches my behavior a
lot and is influenced by that. So the stakes are yes,
(18:13):
way higher now, and I feel like the greatest gift
I can give him is being my whole self. Alfred
Wooded long ago gave me this book called Whole Parent,
Whole Child, and it's a beautiful book and it talks
essentially about that of you cannot be able to pour
(18:34):
into your child and raise them to be their full
best self if you yourself or not.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yes, there is a stat A friend sent me a
video that actually said that the highest predicting determinator of
an adult's happiness is how happy their mother was.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I've read that in their childhood. Yes, I've read that
somewhere and major. It is major, because you know what
I found very early in Hunter's childhood, I was dealing
and struggling with major mom guilt. You know, I nursed
(19:15):
him for three years. I gave birth to him in
my bathtub. I was like, yo, I'm a dude, like
my mom was. She gave birth to all six of us,
natural childbirth. You know, nursed us, didn't believe in extending
extended nursing, and so like a lot of her philosophies
and her standards, right, I was holding myself too.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
My mom's situation was so different and very unique.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Right. She didn't have to ever have someone on set
with us watching us because she was behind the camera
and we were the ones in front. And so in
my situation, I'm the one in front, and so I'm going, well,
you know, I want Hunter on set with me. I'm nursing.
He refused a bottle because he got hype to it, right.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
He got smart too.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
He got him to the fact that, okay, like around
six months, I remember, it was like, okay, if I
take this bottle from my aunt, that means mommy might
go to Target.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
So he started boycotting the bottle, right, smart, really smart.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
It's like, oh, I see how I'm gonna get the
I want.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
And he's like, I'm not doing this. She's not passing
me to Aunty, your uncle or to daddy. It's gonna
be her. I went directly from the source, you know.
And so he start started refusing the bottle. And so,
you know, me shooting Lovecraft Country or Birds of Prey
doing stunt rehearsal, he's right there, you know, in the
(20:44):
trailer or at rehearsal, and I had to have help,
and I felt so much guilt about the fact that, like,
oh my gosh, I got to go and do this scene.
It's a really emotionally challenging scene. So for the next
hour or so, I need him to stay in the trailer.
He can't com on set because he can't see Mommy.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Like that, right, Like you need to focus and I.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Need to focus, and I need to do your right,
I need to do my work. But I dealt with
a lot of mom guilt that wasn't processed and I
didn't really know where to put it. And it really
was that philosophy of that book of giving yourself the
approval to feed into your well, to do your to
(21:29):
pursue your passions, to take the bath where you need
to take the bath, to go to target when you
need to just have alone time, right or whatever. That
thing is giving yourself the approval to do that, knowing
that if you don't, you will run out of gas.
And that doesn't help him, and that helps no one.
(21:50):
That serves no one. There's no Mommy Olympics, there's no
reward that you're winning at the end of the year,
exactly as it's sacrificing. Yeah, exactly, and it's a marathon,
it's not a sprint. You need to have endurance in
order to be present with him and play with him.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
And it's okay, you know, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
For him to see me pursue my dreams. It's actually
a beautiful thing for him to see the sacrifice that
I make for my work and how hard I work.
It's okay for him to see the image of a
woman being the bread winner. It's okay for him to
see me being ambitious and passionate and going, baby, you
(22:34):
know what. Right now, Mommy has to go in this
room and I have to study this scene. But when
I finish, I'm gonna come out and we're gonna play catch.
Right Like, giving him those boundaries in the parameters I
think is healthy. And I've had to process and give
and be kind to myself over the past few years,
because of course there's moments where he's like, no, why
(22:59):
you you know, And there's sacrifices that my work requires
that he make. Yeah, but there's also a lot of
benefits that he gained from from what mommy does and
the kind of life I can provide for him, the
travel that he's he's been able to be a part
of I mean, like he went to the Steve Irwin
Zoo in Australia, got a private tour that's a pet
(23:23):
of rhino DJ the rhino he got to pet, you know,
like all these experiences. He got to meet Steph Curry
last year. Hello, okay. And so as he gets older,
he's slowly starting to appreciate what I do and actually
find respect for it and gratitude. And that is a
(23:45):
real muscle that I'm trying to strengthen in him, which
is hard in kids, And it's hard in kids who
grow up with a lot, you know, to understand that yo,
to whom much is given much as affected. Right, So
like we gotta give back, we gotta go and volunteer,
we gotta yeah, we gotta do all these things because
(24:08):
look how blessed we are. Man.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It makes me think about something. What a crazy sentence
I'm about to say. I don't know. A month and
a half ago, I think we had Michelle Obama on
the pod. I was literally like, what is happening? And
I asked her about motherhood and she said that her
mother had this phrase that you know, has echoed for
(24:33):
her whole life. I'm not raising babies. I'm raising adults, amen,
And that thing to to give your kid evolving agency
as they evolve, to show them how you move in
the world as an adult, as a responsible parent, as
(24:54):
a dedicated worker, as a volunteer, as a human that
for you, your little boy always knows he can come to
like that raises a generation of adults. And I think about,
at least for me, you know, my parents didn't know
(25:14):
any of the stuff we know now about how to
raise babies, how to talk to them, what to do
for them.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
They didn't have the language or the tools, and a
lot of the research wasn't done yet, you know, all
the things.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
And I think about the learning and the unlearning that
our generation has had to do.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Unlearning is very key. Unlearn a lot, a whole.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Lot, oh boy. And I just think about, like how
cool our kids are going to be when they're our
age because they've just had more resources and information and
opportunity to imagine themselves in these spaces they see you
or or us in evolution. It's cool. Yeah, it's really cool.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Out for our sponsors thinking about family and like, you know,
the examples we set you talk about how your mom
was the one behind the camera, you know, and it
led into this amazing world for all of your siblings.
I mean, six kids and y'all are all in this
(26:20):
industry in some facet.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Does that not all anymore? But at a point, at
a point, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
When was that this amazing thing when you got to
do this show together? But then as y'all started growing
and going out into the world and working in these
different arenas, did it almost mean you got to spend
less time together as a family.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Oh no, honestly, we were like we were We were
like a pack a herd.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
That oh you everyone went together, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Like my mom if one of us got a gig,
right like a movie or TV show, instead of her
flying there. It got to a point where she would
ask the studio for the money that they were going
to spend on the flights. Give her the cash, and
she would drive us all there in the suburban. I mean,
(27:09):
she was she was. She was gangster, you know, she's
very strategic, she was very smart. But also she had
no one to watch us we did. It's not like
we had a lot of friends or extended family. She
didn't have people she could leave us with. And my
parents separated when I was twelve, and so I have
to say, I think that's one of the reasons why
(27:31):
we might. I'm so close with my siblings. There's six
of us, and I have five best friends in them.
I mean, it's when I say, I can show you
my text threads of like the sibling text chain, it
just it just girl just comes in. Everyone's always talking,
like the conversation is always you know, We're just so close.
But we were alway had you know. And if I
(27:54):
had an audition, then Jazz was doing my hair and
Jake was maybe making the you know, and Jesse was
running my lines with me like it. It really was
this this beautiful microcosm of everyone supporting everyone. There was
(28:15):
no jealousy, there was no competition. It just was not allowed,
and everyone was expected to serve the cause, the mission.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
And it really was I.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Think about survival because when you think about it, this
became the family business. This became the income. It became
the way we were able to take care of each other.
My father mom separated, like I said, when I was twelve.
He worked for Pacific bell at and t He was
a blue collar worker. He didn't he didn't make enough
(28:46):
to support us, and certainly didn't you know, give enough
child support to support us. It became something where it
was us kids going out and working and my mom
finding us gigs and us living paycheck paycheck in a sense,
until you know, my brothers got older and they started
working regular jobs to contribute. But you know it, it
(29:09):
was I don't even remember what your original question was.
I feel like I'm going on the tangent. But I
think that's that's one of the beautiful things about very
unconventional childhood. Yes, she was behind the camera, but I
learned so much about the industry from her. You know,
she just was so unwilling to sacrifice certain things and
(29:36):
unwilling to sell integrity, unwilling to just take things because
they were paying really good. You know, I was offered
a number of jobs that she said no to that
where it was either with someone who was a really
awful person, and it would have put me in a
(29:57):
very compromising situation getting me out of a very awful
and toxic work environment. And yes, but like I said before,
she was behind the camera.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Yeah, you know, yeah, I mean it's such a lesson
in you know, business.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yes, and remembering like, no matter how cool the set
is or the job is or whatever, like it's business
and I love that, you know, y'all have been able
to stay so close. I ask because I think about
how much I love what we do, but how often
it takes me away from the people I want to
be close to.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Oh no, it's so true. It's like, yesterday, my TV
show Smoke premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival, which is
very exciting, awesome. It played so well, but it was
also the same day of my niece's fifth grade graduation,
you know, and so everyone sending me pictures of her,
and you know, I'm I tried to face time. But yes,
(31:04):
that for sure is part of the sacrifices is missing
out on How many birthdays or primary moments are you missing?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
How did it feel to premiere the show here?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
It was a full circle moment? Yeah, yeah, yeah, in
a number of ways. You know, when you work on
something for so long and then it's like your little secret,
it's your little baby that you've birthed, and then you
get to share it with the world. So it was awesome.
(31:42):
It was awesome to watch it in front of an
audience and get the feedback and it played incredibly well.
You know, it was quite thrilling.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, okay, will you tell our friends at home what
Smoke is?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
So. Smoke is a crime thriller for Apple TV Plus
at premiere is June twenty seventh, created by Dennis Lahane,
one of our premier writers. I mean, I don't know
that you can write crime thriller better than Dennis. And
I've been a fan of his since Mystic River and
(32:22):
you know, Gone, Baby Gone, and Shutter Island and so
many Blackbird which was on Apple as well, But anyway,
it's based on true events in which an arson investigator
played by Tarren Edgerton is paired with a trouble detective
(32:42):
played by myself, and they are assigned to investigate to
serial arsonists and through this investigation begin to suspect that
each other are not who they can claim to be.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
That's so juicy. Also crazy fun fact because when I
was reading up on the show, it centers around John
Orr and back in the day, I played his daughter
in a movie with Rayleoda.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Wait what yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
So of all the like things wait be talking about today? Guy,
it was like, I think it was maybe my second
job I was at USC and it filmed in LA
and I would drive from class and I would go
to shoot this movie and I was on set with
Raleiota and John Likeguizamo, who I just.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Who's in our show?
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Like?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Come on? Like this is so it's crazy. So I'm
so excited to see it, you know because as a
young actor to think about, like, you know, how do
you imagine what this sort of story would do to
a kid when this happens in your family? And now
I get to watch my friend be on the adult
side investigating it. I know that's crazy. I know it's
(34:14):
so fun.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Wow full circle.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Come on, Yeah, it's really really it's so cool.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Because he was an interesting person. Yeah, they're the podcast
Firebug that this is loosely inspired by is wild. If
anyone wants to.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Listen to I'm like, wait, I want to listen to that.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
You should listen to it. It's he was writing a book,
you know, about an artison investigator who's secretly an arsonist,
and so that element is in our show as well.
But it's Dennis really has created of a heightened and
(35:00):
fictionalized version of that, and my character is really the
birth child of Dennis's mind. You know, when I met
with him, one of the first things he said, one
of the earlier things he said to me, was, you know,
we all say we want to be happy, and yet
why are we consumed by the very things that want
(35:21):
to destroy us? And that's my character in a nutshell.
She is metaphorically playing with fire. I mean, there are
these elements in her life that are just dangerous that
she's drawn to. And it's interesting because I know, I
don't know that it's unique to me, but I definitely
(35:42):
can see myself and those struggles in the past right
like where you are going. I know this is not
healthy for me, but I'm choosing it anyway, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Hoping that it doesn't turn out how I'm afraid it will,
and it does.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
It's like when you're blind, faith or your desire to
see the good just bites you in the ass. Yes.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Yes, And that manifests in so many different ways, totally
a toxic relationship. It could be our toxic, toxic level
of ambition being a workaholic.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
It could be the childhood.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Trauma that we still have in process and the way
that manifests. And so Dennis has woven all these very
complex layers into my character Michelle, who's a detective, former
marine who finds herself in a relationship with her boss,
(36:39):
who's the captain of the precinct, who's married.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Oh boy who leaves.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
His wife for her, only for Michelle to then say
she no longer wants to be with him now, and
going back to attachment theory, you know, I spoke to
a therapist just specifically about Michelle, and she's very much
so an avoidant, which I am not. You know, I've
(37:09):
historically I've been attracted to avoidance. Guilty is charge.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I had a couple of those myself, and.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
So it was so fun to weave those elements into Michelle,
someone who has she has real childhood trauma, she has
a mother wound, a deep betrayal that happened when she
was young with her mother, and it was beautiful to
(37:39):
be able to weave that in to the way she
sees the world, the way she attaches and detaches in
those patterns.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, how do you how do you begin to build
a world for a character? And I like, I want
to ask you this question that I like to ask
because I know you're a research nerd, and so am I. So,
I'm like, girl, tell me about your good Like, where
where do you start? You know, when you make when
you get this information? Former marine now a detective making
(38:07):
bad choices, probably a little addicted to the chase. You
get this nugget, I would imagine, because Dennis is brilliant. Yeah,
her childhood, Like how do you begin to build her house?
Speaker 3 (38:19):
I begin answering all the whys and the who, what, where, why? When?
So that's really where I start. Yeah, you know, what
do I know about her environment? What does the text
tell me? I fill that in in her biography and
any holes that the text doesn't tell me, I go
to the source, screenwriter Dennis Lahane in this case, ask
(38:42):
him questions pick his brain of Okay, so what happened
to her? What is this? Why does she do this?
And all the questions he gives me. Any holes left,
I fill in myself through research, through either speaking through experts.
In this case, I spoke to not just therapists, but
(39:02):
I spoke to former Marines. I trained with a former
a veteran who served in the military. Just had to
be an expert and weaponry honestly, because she deals with
guns a lot. I interviewed firefighters and arson investigators. I
read the Firebug podcasts, you know, watch documentaries, which then
(39:27):
leads you to other films of this topic. And so honestly,
it's really about filling up the well. And then I
also just have several coaches that I work with. I
have a physicality coach, I have, you know, my acting coach.
I have my fitness trainer. And for this I'm normally
(39:51):
journey I can my weight. I can tend to be
a little bit on the leaner side. And so because
she's a form a marine who is working in a
very male dominated field, who has a little bit of
body dysmorphia, who dealt with insecurity from her weight when
(40:12):
she was a child, it manifests through her doing these
crazy intense workouts. So I went to my trainer, Jeannette Jenkins,
and was like, I gotta put on muscle. I gotta
put on weight. And so I put on fifteen pounds
of muscle before we started shooting. By the end of shooting,
I had put on twenty pounds. Wow. Crazy way of
(40:33):
eating of like eating five meals a day.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
I was going to say, were you just like taking
hard boiled eggs to the face.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Like oh my gosh, and like these protein powders and
like the weight gainer shakes, and yeah, just eating in
between takes and snacking all the time and trying to
have a calorie surplus, but doing it in the right
way and the healthy way as much as I could.
I wasn't eating donuts and doing it like that, you know,
which I would have loved, but also break out, so
(41:01):
I had to like watch the skin, you know, And yeah,
it was it was. It was awesome to be able
to just physically transform and feel stronger because that was
the goal.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Is Okay, then you feel like this person.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yes, there's a there's a dominant presence that she needed
to have when she walks in her room. Yes, and
you know, how does she what's her posture? How does
she walk? Like what's her gait? All those things are affected,
you know when you feel stronger, And man, Janette, she
got me. She got me up to I could do
(41:43):
a hack squat squat of lifting two hundred and sixty
pounds by the time we were done, and she got
me feeling incredibly strong.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
So that's so cool.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
Yeah, we'll be.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Back in just a minute. After a few words, from
our favorite sponsors. When you think about that, you know,
love for research. One of the things I love about
the way you speak about your work is that you're
never afraid to shy away from real themes that are
(42:18):
in it, especially when you're doing a lot of these
historical projects, you know, whether it's the Order or love
Craft Country like it. It offers, I think, the opportunity
to share history and even things that are loosely based
on history, to invite an audience in and to encourage
(42:40):
them not to shy away from who we are from.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
You know, and how we got here.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yes, you can uncover the things that as a society
we often want to tuck away, like in the corner.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Keep in the dark.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
And how do you kind of layer the historically relevant
jobs with your love of process, Like do you ask
a director to put you in touch with the historian
or is it very much the similar thing where everything
you find in the research leads you to another thing
(43:16):
and you're just trying to get as much of it
in your brain and body as you can by the
time the camera roles.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
When I did the Order, I did ask them to
put me in touch with a few former special agents,
which they did. It depends on the project, and yeah,
who can help me and who's a resource? Production is
typically very beneficial in that way and have a lot
(43:45):
of resources at their disposal and encourage that sort of
research for you. Yeah, but a lot of it is
self motivated, and you're right, it is. Okay. It could
be a YouTube clip that makes you down a path
and then that leads you to something else, And it
really comes down to the level of curiosity the individual has.
(44:08):
And I have an immense amount of curiosity about humanity
and what drives us and what motivates us. It just
helps me understand my own life more. And I do
think that as part of the reason that I do
what I do. Storytelling to me and art is essential
(44:28):
because it helps us understand humanity.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
If we understood.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Patterns in history more, I think we wouldn't be where
we are today. I agree with you. You know, if
more of us knew about unfortunately Nazi Germany, right, like,
we would be able to recognize real rhetoric and real
talk of a dictator.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
Currently right wouldn't be saying oh no, it's not that,
because it is. And literally the quotes.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Match, literally match, okay, And so I do feel like
it's the job of the artist to just tell the truth.
And how do you tell the truth? You just do
the research, right, you dig deeper, you ask the questions.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
And you know what you're carrying into the room with you.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Yes, exactly. It gives you more confidence. I find in
the times when, like when I was younger and I
don't know that I had as much technique as I
do now, those moments I think I can watch the
work and go, oh, I see why I was there
(45:41):
because I didn't know you had to do this and
this and this, you know. But I also have to
say I give so much credit to a lot of
the individuals I've actually worked with along my career that
I just kind of stole there their technique really, you know,
asking them questions, Okay, well how do you do this? Well?
(46:03):
Why do you do this? And then going all right,
I'm gonna try that out.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
What's one of the best answers you've gotten to that question,
Like from someone you have worked with who you admire,
what was a Oh, that's really good.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
Denzel Washington, Oh, great debaters. He directed the film that
I was in, and it was like taking a masterclass
and he a lot of the tools. I mean, I
literally you know, when you're working with someone like Denzel
you better keep a note on notes and literally taking
notes every single day of what he says or how
(46:36):
he directs me or little nuggets he gives me. And
it was you know him who first told me about
this idea of writing a biography for your character. Knowing
everything about your character, even down to the kind of
sheets they sleep on, what do they eat for breakfast.
It helps you think like the character, so that on
(46:58):
the day, whether you're improving or or not having no dialogue,
there's something going on in your head. Yes, because if
you're thinking about the boom operator whose shirt is like
rising up as the hoad in the.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Boom, or like sorry, you've got to pull that tea down.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Or if you're thinking about the fact that the director's
eating the donut that you wish you could eat right now,
but you're not gonna do it. You know, if your
if your head is not actually thinking the thoughts of
the character, the camera will see it. You can just
get lost. And it's and it's it's like a bliss
or euphoria, yes, that you are able to feel.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Absolutely it's it's like a feeling of weightlessness.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Yeah, when you're in the flow.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yeah, it's beautiful when you think about that, like the
joy of what we do. Being in that flow. You
can obviously reflect on the people you've worked with and
the sets you've worked on, continued to build your toolkit.
Do you feel like, looking back, there is a role
(48:07):
you've played that in hindsight you realize changed you in
a way that you didn't expect.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
I really have developed a very spiritual relationship to my
instrument and I really feel that all of them come
to me in a moment that I need them the most,
(48:35):
in a moment when there's something in myself I have
to exercise through them. There's something that I'm struggling with,
there's a pattern I'm in, or there's a block, you know,
in the pipes, And so.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
I wouldn't pick one.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
I think they're all an evolution and if you pull
out one of them, I wouldn't be who I am
or where I am today. Even the bad ones, you know,
you learn a lot from the bad ones totally, and
even the toxic environments. Dare I say I learned at
(49:11):
a very early age how to recognize toxicity how to
recognize how adults enable toxicity being in environments where it's
like you know, when you're a child. In the industry, unfortunately,
any child is going to be exposed to certain adult
behavior they shouldn't be. And I learned a way of
(49:35):
protecting myself and recognizing it. And so I am honestly
grateful for it all. Yeah, and that might for some
people strike you know, accord as like odd, but I
truly am grateful for it all. It has created me,
and it has given me tools in my craft, in
(49:58):
my character and my characters, but like my actual character,
it has built my own character. You know, Yes, I
feel that.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Too, And you know yes, working with wonderful people teaches
you where to set the bar. But the toxic experiences
I do think are invaluable. Would I wish them on anyone,
but what it teaches you, you know, I know I.
Speaker 3 (50:31):
Know what to look out for.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
In a way I could not had I not seen
the bad side. I am a better co star and
producer because I know what bad ones look like.
Speaker 4 (50:47):
Yes, And I do think if you choose to take
what you wouldn't wish on someone else, and what maybe
you wish you didn't have to experience, but turn it
into a learning.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
At exactly fuel you and it can.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Actually support people around you in an even better way. Yes,
And that I just think is how we figure out
how to make lemonade out of lemons.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
Right, Yes, And I really I feel it's so important
for us to lift up the ones who are not
that way. I remember I was doing the Burial with
Jamie Fox.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
He is who's lovelier than him?
Speaker 3 (51:27):
I mean, come on, come onliest, the loveliest, generous, I mean,
pours into everyone. He produced it along with his producing
partner Tatari Turner and Fox Hold their company produced it.
They made sure that the majority, if not all, of
the department heads were women. It was a woman director
(51:48):
and writer woman DP like, I mean, unbelievable set. Right.
But there was a moment we were doing a scene
and there was someone on set who disrespect did a
crew member, and Jamie stopped the take and he gave
a long speech about how we will not tolerate anyone
(52:13):
disrespecting anyone. There is no rank. We are all linked.
He said, it was so beautiful to see this man
who's I mean, this man is so talented. He's a
freaking alien. He's so talented, but to see him hold
everyone accountable in such a gracious and beautiful way. I mean,
it was a moment I'll never forget. Like as great
(52:36):
as his performance is in that movie, and it is phenomenal,
and I loved you know, it's a joy to work
alongside him. It was that one moment that I will
remember the most though.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
That's what makes you love him forever, right right?
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Yeah, absolutely, And I just say, beauty.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Of what he does, it's the beauty of who he.
Speaker 3 (52:54):
Is, amen, And it's why he can have longevity. It's
why he can have you know, he's at the top
of the top of the game still, right and having
done it for decades. And so yeah, I think I
think all of the experiences I welcome because it has
(53:16):
taught me and it has made me grow.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yeah, I love it. Well, when you think about what's next,
I mean, like you said, the you know, the show premierees,
it's like your baby goes out into the world. But
also it's it's done. You know, it's finished, and then
you're onto the next, whether it's a personal thing or
a professional thing. Like as you look out at what's coming,
(53:40):
what feels like You're a work in progress.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
That's really good. I really am on the vision board.
It is about becoming very intentional with stepping behind the camera, producing, directing,
ushering forward store worries whether I'm in them or not.
I don't need to be the but like helping to
(54:05):
expand the gaze of who gets to tell our stories,
who gets to define who we are as women, who
we are as others? Right, Like, I am not interested
in continuing to complain about the problem if I'm not
going to help solve it. And I see that we
(54:27):
have come so far in the industry. You know, I
don't know that decades ago I would have been able
to even have the opportunity to play a role like
Michelle in Smoke, who is so layered and complex and flawed.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
It would have been you mean, she wasn't described as
likable girl, I write the word to the ground right, right.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
And that she can be many things, and she can
make really questionably ambiguous, she can make morally ambiguous choices right,
and and she doesn't have to be all knowing or
all strong. I mean the strong strong women. Come on,
I'm over it.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
A strong black woman, I like bored with it and
can just.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
Give me flaws because flaws are truthful.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Let us be messy, let.
Speaker 3 (55:23):
Us be messy, let us break the law, let us,
you know, run away from the person we should actually
be with. Let us do all the self sabotage of
the world. Because I want to see myself up there.
I want my niece to see herself up there. I
want my friends to see themselves up there. Like I'm
not interested in the girlfriend who has to be the
(55:49):
ear for the man's plot being pushed forward, right, But
I'm also not interested in the robot who's all powerful
and all good, because none of us are, you know.
So that is my intention is to work with filmmakers
and collaborators who push me, who helped me grow. I
(56:12):
just want to continue to grow and be better. Growing up,
my mom always had me reading these biographies of the
greats like Catherine have burned me, you know, her autobiography,
and studying their patterns. And you're not going to have
(56:32):
longevity if you stay stuck and rigid and doing the
same thing. How are you evolving and changing? And That's
what I'm interested in, being a work in progress.
Speaker 1 (56:50):
I love it. Well. Congrats on the show and all
the things. Really happy for you.
Speaker 3 (56:55):
Thank you. I'm very very proud of you. This is
a beautiful platform you have. Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
We enjoy it. We got good people over here. Come
back anytime.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
I will be back, Okay,
Hosts And Creators
Bethany Joy Lenz
Sophia Bush
Robert Buckley
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