September 26, 2024 • 58 mins
Uzo Aduba is a force on the big screen, small screen — and the stage! Now, she is crossing off one more accomplishment from her list: author.
The Emmy award-winning actress opens up to Sophia about her new memoir, "The Road Is Good: How a Mother's Strength Became a Daughter's Purpose.” Uzo shares her coming-of-age story growing up Nigerian-American in a predominately white suburb, her journey to becoming an actor, and the profound life lessons she learned from her mother that helped shape who she is today as an actress, advocate, and a mother herself.
Plus, both women reflect on the emotional impact of attending the DNC (lots of tears were shed). Uzo also talks about another impactful moment in her life, being on the verge of quitting acting, when she landed the role of Suzanne 'Crazy Eyes' on "Orange is the New Black." She reveals how she prepared for the role, how it changed her life, and the one actress who knew it would be a hit from the start!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress, the
Hey with Smarties. Today we are joined by a woman
that I absolutely adore.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
A formidable talent to be reckoned with.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
A three time Emmy Award winning, Tony Award nominated actress
whose work spands television, film, and theater. Today's guest is
none other than u Zo Aduba. She was born in Boston, Massachusetts,
to parents who immigrated to this country from Nigeria. She
eventually moved to New York to pursue acting and gained
(00:44):
wide recognition for her role as Suzanne Crazy Eyes Warren
on the Netflix original series Orange Is the New Black.
She won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Guest Actress in
twenty fourteen, an Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actress in
twenty fifteen, to two wo SAG Awards for Outstanding Performance
by a Female Actor in a Comedy Series. She is
(01:04):
also one of only two actors to win an Emmy
Award in both the Comedy and Drama categories for the
same role. She's a Legend. In twenty twenty, she played
Shirley Chisholm in the Hulu mini series Missus America. For
which she also won an Emmy Award. And by the way,
it's the coolest glimpse into the history that women have
(01:25):
made in this country. If you haven't seen it, you
must watch it immediately. I could literally spend the next
three minutes reading the rest of her resume. But whether
it's film, television, broadway, Uzo Aduba is an absolute force.
Now she is producing. She has a multi year deal
with CBS Studios. She has set up over a dozen
(01:48):
series projects. I don't know where she finds the time.
And to add to this incredible resume, she is now
a first time author. Her book The Road Is Good.
How a Mother's Strength Became a Daughter's Purpose is a
powerful memoir about immigrant identity, the story of an unforgettable matriarch.
(02:10):
Huzzo's mom is one of a kind. You feel like
you get to know her in these pages, and in
some way, I think her uniqueness is what will make
her feel universal to all of you. She reminded me
in my own ways, of my own family and our
own story. It's just such a beautiful page turner about
a girl grappling with a master juggling act, growing up
(02:35):
one of one in a community, and learning to take
that feeling of being othered and turn it into unique beauty.
This book is more than just the journey of a
young woman has determined to survive young adulthood. It's the
story of how an incredible mother can be such a
testament to stepping into your power. It's so good that
(02:58):
I'm going to stop talking so that we can dive
into this interview and you can hear the marvelous Zoa
Duba speak on this herself.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Enjoy Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
How are you feeling with the book and everything I'm feeling.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I'm feeling a bunch of different feelings, to be honest
with you, I'm feeling excited, nervous, curious, happy, sometimes a
little sad, but supremely thankful at the end of the
(03:49):
day because I was like, oh, man, I wish my
mom was here to get to like see it, you know,
and let's all come together, which is like, of course,
you know, a bummer generally, But at the same time,
on the other side, I'm like, oh my gosh, thank
god we got to have that time together and her
(04:10):
to like pour back over me, you know, all all
of the lessons and experiences and stories and things that
we've gone through, seen together or before, be reminded of
her own story with that like detail of knowing you know,
I'm really telling this to you and I needed to
(04:31):
hold on to it. So yeah, I'm glad that I
even had that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just really striking me
in real time that that is this sort of silver
lining of a tragedy is when you know time is fleeting,
rather than it ending out of the blue, you probably
get to gather and be together and communicate in ways
(04:57):
that are deeper. Perhaps then the way we can just
walk through the world sometimes taking for granted a moment
with someone you love or you know.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Absolutely, my my dear dear friend Iris, she said it
to me once as she had her life had been
touched by cancer, and she said it, you know, just
sort of just said it. She was like, you know,
there's a strange there's a strange blessing in cancer. It
(05:28):
gives you time to say and do all the things,
you know, which is true because you don't want it,
and you know, I would rather us not to have that.
This is we're candid out blessings. Don't give me that one,
you know.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
What I mean, Like I would have loved to have
perhaps picked a.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Different one exactly exactly, but it is that sort of fortune.
And like we had started this book that had scotten,
had the proposal draft, started the proposal and was in
connection with my publisher, Viking before my mom was six.
(06:08):
So then when I sat down to write it, she
was six. So when we started diving into some of
these you know, stories in this proposal, with the proposal
that was not the book I was setting out to write, honestly,
the book that I wrote, the book that I was
setting out to write. I thought it was just going to.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Be like, yeah, lessons exactly, lessons are just being black lah,
you know, like that's going to be like the book.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
And then it was like, oh wait, now like these lessons,
I got to really hear these lessons and like really
get her story and like, so yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Wow, this is incredible. I have so many more questions obviously,
because you you know, my friend just wrote a book. Hello,
But I I really like to go back with people
before we go to my favorite first official question to
ask someone. I actually have to do a sort of
in between the now and then and just rewind us
(07:13):
like a quick couple of weeks and say, I got
to recap the DNC with you because it was so
special to be there. It was so special for me.
It's not lost on me that I always see you
in my favorite and seemingly most like spiritually or soulfully
important rooms. I'm always like, yeah, of course, here this trap.
(07:38):
And I was saying when I got home to my partner,
I was like, oh, I bawled like a baby every
single night. There was like a point in the night
where I'd be like, tonight, I'm not going to cry,
and then I would just sob Did you have that too?
Did you? Were you in the sort of washing machine
of excitement and overwhelm or did you just like keep
it together better?
Speaker 4 (07:56):
No? No, no, no, no. I was in. I was
in in the tears room. I was in the joy
bounce house room. I was in like the college lecture,
lean in and listen to Professor Presidents Barack Obama and
first Lady Professor Michelle ob You know. I was all
of those things. And then the culmination of her ascendants
(08:21):
to the state of presidential formal presidential nominee that was
it was overwhelming and yes, like we have been in
those spaces, even if we are to chart and track
you and I in January twenty seventeen being in Washington, DC,
(08:43):
you remember all those women yes, and the response and
the weight of that moment. And then to flash ourselves
forward a short eight years later, seven and three quarters
years later, and here we are now again, gathered, but
(09:08):
this time watching it not only happen again, but feeling
the understanding of the real possibility that even it that
we're not going back, I mean, like to quote her directly,
(09:29):
when we're not going back, you know that we're America
is determining, determined in some capacity to push forward, because
here we are trying it yet again.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well, yeah, determined in some capacity to be what we
claim to be to be for everyone. It's not supposed
to be that hard. But obviously we've all studied our history,
and to feel really close to it in this way
now after where we've all been feels, you know, I think,
(10:02):
even more magical than it did the first potential time around,
when we thought, oh, we might have a president that
also represents us as women, you know, and it I
don't know, it hits me especially, I wonder if it
does for you too, I mean, you obviously have the
completely different experience. I can only watch, but I don't
(10:23):
in habit of being a black woman watching a black
woman being nominated for this office. And I think about
it just what it means to me for women in general,
and that she manages for us, you know, as people
lucky enough to reside in California, we've gotten to watch
her for so long in all of these different offices
(10:43):
to lead, you know, in small ways when not a
ton of people were paying attention, maybe outside of our state,
and in these massive ways, you know, for all of
us across the nation now, and it's I don't know,
it's like so silly, not her mom, but I have
this very intense like sense of pride. I'm like, that's
(11:04):
our girl, that's our attorney general, and.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
You know she is well, and you think about it,
what like it's like, I definitely one hundred percent agree
with you. I think of it in terms of being
a woman. I think of it in terms of being
a black woman, a woman of color, O first generation woman,
you know, which as a child of immigrants. You know,
I connect. I really do see my story when I
(11:30):
see her up.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
There to.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
What it takes to carve out a life for yourself
as immigrants in America, and that all you want really
is just to see the American dream made possible for
your own children. My mother growing up. My American dream
is for you people to live your dream. That's that's
the goal. That's the simple goal. And for her to
(11:55):
have not only met it, but you know, multiplied at
times one thousand, is just a testament to her strength
or intelligence, her ability, her capability, her readiness. You know,
somebody who has been a courtroom prosecutor, elevated to district attorney,
(12:16):
elevated to attorney general, elevated. And by the way, when
I say elevated, it's elected, really yes, elected to the
office of US Senator, which is in itself as a
black woman is underrepresented, and then finally elected to the
office of Vice president, and now seeking the votes and
(12:37):
election of president. You know, in a space where that
just has not been done, It hasn't happened. There hasn't
never been a female president yet. And that she has
all of these high, high elevated marks on her resume
(12:58):
and experience as compared to the other side. I think
also women that resumes with a lot of women as well.
How hard you have to work to even be seen. Yes,
you're nineteen thousand points of experience on your resume and
still be questioned yes.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Oh well, I mean I think I think today we're
what fifty days out on the day of recording together,
so let's keep our feet on the gas America. So
it's it's a perfect kind of transition point because the
usual first question I like to ask people is this,
And we're talking about in your answer to the last question,
(13:44):
some of the way that you grew up. And I
think about this a lot because I get to sit
down with people when you're so known for something or
so many things as you are, and I like to
know who you were before we all knew you. And
I wonder if you could, you know, jumped into the
space time continuum and sit down with your eight year
(14:06):
old self, would you see this version of yourself in her?
Or did everything following the path of your life wind
up surprising you? Or is it maybe a little bit
of both.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I would say a little bit of both. I am,
thankfully a lot calmer than I was. Anyone would tell
you my siblings, any person, I was very precocious, wild
imagination thought. But that part I think is still true.
You know, I've always thought anything is possible. Anything. I
(14:42):
still think that. Maybe that's dangerous, I don't know, but
I think anything is possible. And so I'm glad that
part of myself still exists. But oh man, when I
was a kid, I was like ripping. I was like,
good on, you know what I mean, every all of
those idea. I was like, let's drive them off, you know,
like let's make a parachute out of our bed sheets
(15:04):
and jump off the roof. And it's like no, no, no, no, no,
Like you know, that actually doesn't work. Little girl, You know,
That's that's what I'm talking about, you know a little
bit of like what is it Ramona Quimby? If you
ever read those books, He's Ramona Quimby. I had a
lot of romonic Q. Wimby and me when I was little.
(15:24):
And but yeah, but I also believed anything was possible.
Something that was told to me by my mom, my
mom an example to me by her as well. Right
over here you can't quite see it, but like this
little piece of wood that's back there is a little
(15:46):
quote of hers as a quote of hers that she
used to say to my siblings and I our whole lives,
and it was I've never heard of nothing coming from
hard work and the living, breathing example of that to me,
and it stuck with all of my siblings, and when
she said it to me before I moved to New York,
(16:06):
when I first started out, it really stuck like gum
to my bones, like I've seen this woman do this,
and I'm just gonna have to work harder than I've
ever worked before to try and make this happen if
I'm serious, Because I think she knows what she's talking about,
and I think I would say that is like something
(16:29):
that's always been a part of me, like just like,
let's get down and dirty and work with this.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's
a word from our sponsors. Well, And I imagine that
that is so indicative of who she was and her
spirit and also, as you mentioned earlier, part of a
thing that I think any child of immigrants goes, Oh yeah,
(16:56):
that kind of work ethic, that willing to do what
it takes, and then some it is something I think
so many people who come here share, and I wonder
what for you growing up, and you know, before you
moved to New York and your Massachusetts suburb was like
you know, I know you talk in the book about
(17:18):
how there weren't many people who looked like you where
you grew up, and probably not a lot of people
who came from where your parents came from. And were
you always aware of that experience of being an immigrant
family in your community.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yeah, definitely, so definitely always aware. I remember, and I'm
still friends with one of my neighbors, Karen Lung. She
lives here in La too, and her she was first gen.
She is first gen too. Her family's from China, and
she lived around the corner. And my best friend, Simmy
was let's girl right here. Oh, Simmy also first Jen
(17:57):
her family from India. We've been friends since thirteen. And
that was it in our town. Maybe in my grade,
I should say, that was it. I have one more girl,
and that was it, you know, like very very very small,
few spatterings, and none of them African, none of them Nigerian,
(18:18):
you know, and so it was it was you are
aware as you're unpacking your lunch and everybody's like, what's that,
you know, and You're like it's Choe Off Race and
it's delicious, you know, you know, it's amazing delicious, It's delicious.
You know, I mean really just want like Peb and
(18:39):
Jay like everybody else. You know, it's from it's that
wide to them getting more granular too, quite literally, you know,
something as mundane as wanting to talk about hair or
you know, there's you remember, Disney used to have like
(19:00):
on Sunday, like Disney movies like Made for Sunday Night Night,
I forget what it's called, and Wonder World World of
Disney or something like this, and you know, everybody would
watch all the Disney things. And then this one that
came out called Polly that was like an all black
adaptation of Pollyanna that I watched an all a family watch.
(19:22):
When you come to school and you're like, did you
guys watch Polly last night? And they're like, no, what's that?
And you're just curious why no one tuned in to
watch that one but tuned into the four before that,
you know, to then as real as the experiences that
we talk about today in culture, you know, just your
(19:43):
family is walking in the neighborhood, you have an honor
uncle visiting and people aren't familiar with who they are,
and then all of a sudden the police show up,
and you know, things like this, You know you're so
you have alerts that are making you aware along the way.
I'm I'm different for some people here, but also then
(20:03):
some amazing people who are celebrating you in that difference.
Also something that I'm also grateful or grateful for that
there were some people in our community and in my
life friends of mine as well, who saw that difference,
celebrated it and really were, you know, protectors for my parents,
(20:31):
me and my siblings to help us sort of shuttle
through and get through at points. But yeah, I think
every kid just wants to fit in, surpritinly whatever your
difference is. Yeah, and you're just trying to find your
space in the world. But I'm thankful that I did
discover and learn that, you know, my differences are important,
(20:58):
and I'm really grateful it's taught like to hold on
to them, whether that's my name, whether that's my gap,
you know, all these things.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, I think about that a lot when you smile,
and like friends of mine who have the most arrestingly
beautiful facial characteristic like your gap, and I think, like, God,
I'm so relieved that not everyone's been convinced to erase
their uniqueness. I didn't get a cool gap. I had
(21:27):
to get braces because my canine teeth came in up here,
and I.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Was like, it was, I'll find you a photo.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Sometimes deeply, deeply not cute, deeply needed to be fixed.
But I just like, I don't know, I was always struck.
Lauren Hutton said this thing a long time ago.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
That was it her?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Or was it Jamie Lee Curtis. One of them said
something about how they were afraid that given the sort
of culture we find ourselves in, with everybody getting so
much done to themselves, they said, you know, I think
we're erasing a whole generation of beauty.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
To be given the ability to cherish who you are
in your uniqueness, I think is so important when you're young,
because everyone gets picked on for whatever reason. They might
be different when we're young, because kids are amazing and
they're also so mean, and it's like you grow up
and the thing you get picked on for is the
thing that becomes the most beautiful and celebrated about you.
And I don't know, I love that. I love hearing
(22:26):
about the kind of household you grew up in where
you were. Yes, of course you were aware, but it
seems like you really were given an awareness of the
whole spectrum of experience from what was hard to what
was beautiful, and you were always taught to hold on
to yourself in it. And that's so cool.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Yeah, you know, I think, I mean, it's like not
to talk so much about her, but I mean, I'm
happy to talk about my mom all the time. But
it's like, you know, she was coming from a place
where a gap is a sign of beauty in Africa,
so she not getting my issue, you know, And I
was I was begging her for braces and my team
(23:06):
are perfectly fine, you know, like there's there, there's nothing
there except that I have a gap. And she'd be like, oozo,
don't you know that in Nigeria a gap is a
sign of beauty. And I was like, we live in
medfield messages as you mom exactly then you know what
I mean, like that kind of a thing. But thank god,
(23:29):
she was like really insistent on it, because she would
go on and she's like everyone in our family, my
family has what she coined a'm you all cool, which
is her maiden name. Gap Everyone has it and I
don't have it, and I wish I had it, and
it's like, thank god I didn't, because I grew up
and I fell in love with my smiles. I even
(23:50):
have a hard time now so they honestly, like on
the carpet sometimes when it's like giving fear space, like
because for so many years I'm not checking. For so
many years when I was a kid, I would not
smile a closed mouth smile like this is my face
like that, just because I didn't like it. And then
(24:12):
just because of a photographer for my senior high school
pictures said I think you have a beautiful smile. It
changed my whole world to the point I started smiling
all the time. And now I'm on carpets and I'm
trying to give like a fierce faith. I can't because
(24:32):
I love to smile. Now I feel like I'm making
up for lost smiles, you know, likes of just not
doing it that. I'm like, I love my smile now,
and I'm so thankful that she didn't let my insecurity,
let my difference dictate the woman I would become. She
(24:55):
was like, no, you're standing that and You're going to
fall in love with yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
That's so special, And I think about what that gives
you too. You know, as you begin to shift your
experience and then you're going to leave home and you
do as you said, move to New York to try
to do this thing. And you know you were working
as an actress in the theater. I know that, and
I love these stories that right before you booked Oranges
(25:21):
the New Black, after the full journey, you were like
this close to quitting and then you booked the show.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Were you did you book that in New York?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Had you moved to la Like, how did we get
from this aha moment at the end of high school
to you almost left the industry and here we are today?
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Right? I booked it in New York. I had been
a play and the manager I was working with at
the time she I had always let me start with.
I had always wanted to do film and television, but
I just had never again, I had not seen anyone
like myself in that space, so I didn't I didn't
(26:03):
feel invited to the table in a way that made
me feel like it was even worth giving it a go.
And in the theater space, I felt like I saw more,
a little bit more of myself, so I was comfortable there.
So anyway, so I started working with a manager who
saw me in the play I was doing at the time,
and she was from Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Oh God.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
He said that she thought I should give it a
try to do film and television. And honestly, I genuinely
believe it's because she was from Hollywood that I was like,
she must know something like that made me get just
like an inch more confidence. So I started auditioning for
film and television that summer. She said, We're not going
(26:48):
to audition for any place, just film and television. And
at that point in my career, I was making a
living doing theater, not a fancy living or anything, just
but up my look, you know. Like, so I was
watching my nose for all of my auditions go up
(27:08):
and my bank account going down, and I was really doubting,
Like I just did not think. I thought it was right. Honestly,
I thought it was right in not try having tried,
like this is exactly how I thought it was going
to go, and this is how it's going. And you know,
(27:29):
I had reached the point where I was like, it's
time to get off this you know, this boat, off
this ship and try something else. In tears, I prayed
up and said I was going to go to law
school become alwayer because that's what I thought. I was
going to do my whole life anyway. And I thought
it was gonna be a lobbyist because I loved political science.
(27:51):
That's gonna moved to DC and be a lobbyist. I
had no idea lobby And then I got home, ordered sushi,
ordered to my sister to come over because I was
going to tell her first, and I was gonna quit.
It was a Friday on Monday. I was gonna call
my manager and my agent at the time and tell
them that I was done. And then five forty three
(28:14):
pm exactly, I'll never forget it. On that Friday in September,
my phone rang and I got the job for Oranges
a New Black, and Wow, my life has never been
the same.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Rightly, we'll be back in just a minute. After a
few words from our favorite sponsors. I had to really
think about this because we forget that this was one
of the first shows on Netflix. It wasn't this streaming
(28:51):
juggernaut yet, you know, it was the company that started
with DVDs. They would mail you of movies you could watch. Now,
I think we almost take for granted how much content
is available. And you, ladies, I mean, you blew open
the world of television, of who got to be on TV,
(29:12):
of what kinds of stories got to be told on TV.
It was so of color, it was so queer.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
It was so.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Like, I can't even explain it, like the breath of
fresh air. I felt beginning to watch you all on
that show, and I was like, Oh, the things that
feel the most sacred as a storyteller really can happen.
Was it incredible? Did you have any idea how big
(29:43):
it would be? Or was the sort of explosion of
it a shock to you as well?
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Oh it's total shock, a total shock. And you have
to know this too, write in your own experience that
it's like you can't you make the thing and you
don't know what it's going to be or not be.
And I mean, at this point, like to your point,
it's like Netflix, wasn't I thought it was a web
series if.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
You're asking me, And I was like a short film
on YouTube exactly.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
I was like YouTube, Like people were asking me. I
was like I don't know where it's gonna be a YouTube,
you know, like that sort of thing. So I had
no idea whatsoever. I only one of my castmates, can
I recall, so Lenis Leva, who called it like early.
She called it early. She was like, I think this
is gonna be good. And I remember sitting with her
(30:31):
being like, why what makes you think? Then she's like,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I just I just have a feeling.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
She's like, it's step a feeling. And I was like, Okay,
we're gonna be massive on YouTube, you know, like this
is gonna be great, you know, like cool. No idea,
but I did know that I had never seen done
anything like this or seen stories like these told like
I had never been in an experience before where I
(30:59):
had seen so many different groups of women, types of women,
eighs to shades, to energy, to identity to gender, all
of it like I had never seen it, And that
(31:21):
felt and told through stories that were exciting and inspiring
as an actor, I had never had that before, and
that was pretty cool, and I was just happy to
be there, you know. Honestly, we all were. Frankly, we
all were just really into it and stoked and to
(31:42):
see like the full three sixties view of what it
needs to be a woman, that it's like a narrow way.
We'd seen stories told to watch it like wide and
you know, for another group, yeah, was awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
And how did you This is just a nerdy actor
to actor question. I'm like, how did you prepare for
that role? You know? What was it like to try
to figure out how to crack Suzanne?
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah? You know, for me, when I read the script
originally and she's introduced, I remember I just thought it
was a love story. I wasn't so focused on Okay,
she's crazy, so now like let's play crazy. I was like, well,
what does that even mean? You know, like because the
description of her is like she's almost like you know,
(32:36):
she's she's what it was like like a child like
she had like a childlike element about hers. I remember
was something in it the description, and I remember latching
onto that, and that to me felt like innocence pure
and that means all of her reactions are they are
(32:58):
not the reactions of an adult, and maybe that might
come across like different or crazy, and I just remember
thinking that was my anchor, that she would do anything
for love, and that was all I was concentrating on
the rest. I was like, what, however it comes out,
(33:20):
it will come out. But what she's trying to communicate
is she does not play with the people. She loves
anything to protect people. She loves anything, even if that
seems off the rails to the outsider, makes perfect sense
to her.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I love that. And that gives you something too, especially
in the world of TV, where no matter what is
in the next script that you had no idea was coming,
you have a kind of ground zero for her, no matter.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
What for yourself.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yes, wow, And then you go, I guess I'm just
thinking my brain is, you know, giving me this sort
of montage of scenes from that show and then scenes
from in treatment and thinking about this completely different person
you know that you got to play and and what
a cool thing in a way to have to get inside,
(34:15):
you know, the mind of someone like Suzanne and then
to literally flip in the other direction and play the
therapist who might treat someone like.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Her exactly like to do that?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Are you just binge watching Esther Perel and Doctor Tama
or are you reading like the Body keeps the score?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
How do you get into that headspace?
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yes, yes, the body keeps the score and myself also
being in therapy, although I was not using my therapy sessions,
let me be clear for a character or study. But
therapist is like, she's like, you're watching me exactly. No.
I for that, I kind of thought of Brooke Taylor,
(35:04):
my character and entreatment. I was like, as a container
m her job is to whole. Everybody's gonna come in
here and they are going to pour whatever whatever is
in their cup into you. And what because I've I've
often wondered what a hard job that must be to
(35:27):
hold people's stuff. And we do it as actors, but
short lived. For the Preach character, there's a time it's
gonna we're gonna cut and then we get to put
it down and move away from it when you know,
(35:47):
use our tools to do that. And but that's also
born out of imagination versus really meeting a person who
is pouring into you their stuff. And so for me
it became an exercise of coming in first with like
a teacup to a jug to a Stanley cup, you know,
(36:11):
like sometimes it just kept getting bigger and bigger. The
cup and the work of what it must be to
hold can be the container for other people's stuff while
also going through your own, which was at the time
she had her own stuff, and if it was just
(36:33):
a strong reminder and one that I needed at that
point in my life because I went into that job
just after my mom moved to heaven, right after she
moved to heaven, that you've got to deal with your
stuff before you start trying to tackle anything else. Because
(36:54):
and that's not to say that I did it right then,
because I certainly didn't, and I'm still moving through. But
you got to deal with your stuff and make sure
you have your broom and try and sweep up as
much as you can on your side of the street
(37:15):
or else. This is going to be like a total mess.
And I feel that even now more strongly now having
had my daughter m Yeah, that it's like all of
the stuff, like you, I don't want to give her
my stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah, I think especially for women, you know, I don't
think you can do all the big research on all
the feelings and the therapy without coming across these incredible,
you know, stories and proofs of this idea of generational inheritance,
right and what we passed down and particularly this matrilineal
(37:54):
Wine yep and I think so much about the way
you talk about your mother's effect and impact on your
life and the impact that then you have had for
so long with these characters you play. You know, you've
you've put yourself into these shows that come part of
(38:17):
the zeitgeist, that represent people in situations and places we
haven't seen before, that that are inherently you could say,
pushing the envelope, creating progress, you could say political in
simply existing. And I think about the ways that you
use your platform to speak out for people. And you
were doing all of this before you had your daughter,
(38:41):
who you knew you were going to pass the world too.
And I wonder if it does it all make sense
to you now, like, oh, of course it was always
for her, Or does it make you want to double
down on who you are and how brave you are
and and the person you are out in the world
because of her?
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Oh, me want to double down? It makes sense, But
it makes me want to double down, especially now you
know we open this conversation we're talking about like DNC.
When I think about like the world and the world
as it exists today and the world that could potentially
exist once I moved to have it God willing, please
take me down everybody. You know, Like, when I'm not
(39:26):
here with her anymore, it's like, what am I going
to leave her? Because I was left with the law
and I do not want to leave her with less
than I was given. Yeah, you know, Maya Angelou has
a quote from her poem, has a line in her
poem on the dusk on the dawn of morning, dusk
(39:49):
of morning, excuse me, And the line says that our
passages have been paid for. And my passage was paid for,
and I want to do everything in my power to
fight for the things that I believe in, to stand
up to the people or ideas that counter the good
(40:12):
of my child to ensure that her passage was paid
for as well. You know, I'm ferocious about that, and
I don't know that I knew that how ferocious I was,
and I didn't need to be a mom to be that.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Let me be here.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
We all have that, any person who has passion for
the life of another person. But it has made me
want to just make sure that I pour into her
as I was poured into m.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
HM and now for our sponsors. So when you think
about that, you know, and you said earlier the book
that you thought you were going to write changed in
between deciding what the book was about and beginning to
write it. Your mom was diagnosed. When you think about
(41:06):
then having to set out to pour into these pages
to make the road is good, which is also the
meaning of your name, it feels really emotional just as
a person talking to you about it. How did you
(41:27):
begin to kind of make sense of, Oh, these are
the things I have to write down. These are the
stories I know I want to preserve because of course
it's for the reader, but it's also for.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
You, Yeah, you know, I think for me. How I
started to get the sense of what to write down
and to include was first starting to think about what
we're if we're going to stay with this, like road metaphor, right,
what were the intersections in the road my mother's story
(42:02):
crossed with mine in terms when she was a kid,
my age, and my experiences those overlaps, And then where
were those forks in the road where my life diverged
from hers, or where I could clearly see like no,
if I had done this way, life would have been
(42:22):
totally different in a trip. But I went this way,
and so I want to include those points in the story,
and then I think the final piece was thinking about
my name and its meaning. My name means the road
is good, but what it's slightly more nuanced, and it
means like the journey was worth It means like if
(42:42):
you were to come to my house and we were
supposed to meet at three, but you got a flat
tire and then torrential rain came down, and oh, man,
there's an accident on the side of the road and
fifty car pile up and ran out again because you
were in traffic so long, and now you're here at
(43:03):
four thirty, an hour and a half late. But the
sun suddenly came out and it's beautiful, and I would say,
too came my goals or how was how was the trip?
The journey? And you would say, oh, Zamaka, it was hard,
but it's worth it because I'm here now with you.
Is what it means. The journey here wasn't easy, It
(43:25):
wasn't ave. The road is muddy and has potholes and
and and you know it has gravel sometimes, but all
of that was worth it because it brought me here.
And that's why my parents named me that. You know,
my mom, you can read people will read it in
(43:46):
the book. It's like she survived polio. My mother survived
the the Affrons civil war against her people, which she
like worked in and like crazy capacity, you know, like
for the government and for writers. She had been through
a lot, you know, had been through a lot. And
(44:10):
she said she was widowed at thirty six, you know,
and then she still had me and was like it
was all worth it because you're here.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
I actually, it's funny. I took a I went back
through my notes and I I was looking at really,
I guess it's the preface of the book where you're
explaining this. And the thing that I really love about
it when you talk about the fact that it's so
much more nuanced than all of it being good, right,
(44:45):
is that you're you actually carry gratitude in the response,
which is your name for the whole journey. Yeah, And
I think to be able to see the purpose in
the pain and be grateful for the joy and all
all of it. You know, it's it's really everything you've
ever been through that has brought you to this point
(45:06):
that you are in your life. And I think when
you can resoundingly lean into the gratitude for your journey
and not be so mad about what was tough. Everything changes, yes,
and it that that I believe is a magical experience
as a human And that's what this book feels like
for me as a reader. Like your whole book, your
(45:30):
story and your mother's story are so incredibly unique. Obviously,
I've never lived through a civil war, nor had pollio,
but ah, like I see myself in this book. This
this like beautiful, real, muddy humanness, and it's I don't know,
(45:52):
it's really you know, I'm a I'm a nerd who
likes to read, and this is it's really so tremendously special.
I just really thank you for sharing in the way.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
They thank you, thank you. And it wasn't easy. You know,
it's not easy. Thank you for that. Seriously, it wasn't
easy because you know, you get uncomfortable wondering, like, oh my,
you're saying these things out loud and so open sharing
it with the world. But yeah, so open, and I'm
(46:21):
not I share with my circle, but I'm not like
a world chair typically And it's been which is probably
why I have nerves going into its relief, because I like,
is it possible to like not? But you know, it's
not already no, but it's like it gave me such
(46:45):
a release and a relief to put some of these
things down on paper and to tell my truth in
that way. And who and what Also like what a
(47:06):
I didn't know it when it was happening, but like
what a gift and come for stations and time I
gave me, but also gave her to get to just
(47:30):
talk about her life.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
And did getting to have these conversations with her, you know,
whether you talk about how for her your your teeth
or such a mark of beauty. You talk in the
book about how for such a long time you wanted
to change your name, you know, to Zoe because easy
American assimilation story, And then there's so much about how,
(47:56):
in whatever way you felt that you wanted to blend in,
you've really taken up the mantle and standing out and
being exactly who you are that I know is a
life's work. But in having these conversations with her, do
you feel like you got that that sort of confidence
and purpose and sense of self like just high dose
(48:19):
like mainline into the veins, like oh my god, this
is why I'm here and this is my this is
my whole destiny to be here and I'm seeing it
in myself because of her.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
Yes, absolutely, you know, like I feel like I've arrived now,
you know, like I think, I think I didn't even realize.
Whether it's like the quitting with Orange, whether it's my gap,
whether it's my name, whether it's being the only you
know Nigerians in our hometown. All of these things, whether
it's hearing no, you know, all of these things were
(48:52):
the walk along the road that we're making it hard,
including having to figure out how to live without her,
But all of that was worth it because I'm here
now and it would not be where I am right now,
in this space, in this moment in my life, able
(49:15):
to hold my head up high proudly say that my
name is Uzama with the fully open gap inside my
mouth splintering my two front teeth, and say that proudly
and say too that I am proud to be none yeah,
my Aduba's daughter. That all of that had to happen
(49:39):
for me to be able to say and do that.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
Hm, that's so beautiful from this place, you know, this fullness.
I know there's nerves obviously about about the book because
it's you and your life and it's about to be
out in the world. Do do you look around and
immediately have a next drive, you know, some next motivation
(50:09):
or are you really trying to just be present and
relish in this moment and this feeling, or are you
you know, every the accomplished woman that you are multitasking
and doing it all at the same time.
Speaker 4 (50:23):
I'm doing other things. But I am. I love that question.
I really do, like I am really trying to stay
in the presence of this, mostly because I think even still,
it's it's easier to push it away and specifically to
(50:46):
this book, to not sit in it and memorialize all
the parts of it because of the discomfort that it
might bring up that point, the nerves, all these things, sadness,
all these things. But it's like I want to stay
in that. I want to I want I want to
(51:08):
give my life, my mom's life, the honor and respect
and time that they both that they deserve to stay
in it. But I have things going in the background,
you know still, you know, like I'm producing now that
we you and I'm mutually our teen angel City go see,
(51:32):
you know, like we have things always going. But I
do want to like stand in celebration of this moment
because I've never done anything like this before.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's sort of incredible. You look around at
your life and you think, God, I've achieved all of
these things. And in a way, every time something happens
and then the next thing requires a new start. You know,
it's a it's a neat I always joke that it's
like the coolest and the most stressful part of what
(52:02):
we do for a living. Yes, but it is beautiful
and it's very cool to get to watch you in
this moment. It's it's really for me, always something I
cherish when I can palpably feel the joy of people
that I really adore. I'm like, God, this is nice.
(52:22):
Good for you. I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
In this in this moment, you know, as you as
you try to hold all of it, and there's all
sorts of things going on. What feels like your work
in progress? Is it as a mom is it personal?
Is it professional? Is it kind of a mix of
all things?
Speaker 4 (52:48):
I mean, definitely, motherhood is a for sure work in progress.
Just I think I'm constantly defining, redefining, having no definition
of the type of the type of mother I want
(53:09):
to be, not because of like what I think I
should be but like, like she's ten months and I'm
so clear that she's already paying attention and what she
is paying attention to I don't know, hopefully, but I
am aware that I that she's awake. Yeah, and I
(53:34):
want to be sure that what she's taking in to
the best of my ability are things that I want
her to hold on too, like and for them to
be true things, not like things that she saw me
do that aren't true, or you know that like now
(53:56):
she thinks like you can't you must wear makeup every day,
you must you know whatever, you know, little things like
that that I don't want her to not that I
but you know, I just don't want to adopt things
as truths that now start to define her. And that's
been interesting because it's like I almost think motherhood is
(54:19):
teaching me a lot about me too in that capacity,
like my words, because I know she's listening. I'm like,
are you really gonna say that about your she's listening,
do you know what I'm saying? That's what I mean
about truth. So that's definitely like a work in progress,
(54:43):
which I guess in term means that I'm just like
in progress for myself too in some ways. And I
guess also I'm a little bit of work in progress,
Like I see it at my baby patience not a
super patient, per I always am like when when when
(55:07):
when you know and I can see my daughter, I'm like,
she might be getting that for me, Like she's like,
I'm like, no, you got I get to work on
my patients, to teach her patient. Yeah, And by that
I mean like to not to not question that's or
(55:27):
to wonder beyond this moment right here. M it will
come when it's meant to come.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Oh, it's so hard, especially I think when you have,
as you were saying earlier, that kind of ferocious love
for other people, for a community, for justice, like God,
patience is so tough. But I think there's it's not
an accident that we're having this conversation about you and
(55:57):
your daughter, and we've also been having this conversation about
you and your mother. Because I have to remind myself
when I hope for a quick solution or when when when,
as you're saying, I remind myself that we're in this
generational project together and that each generation has its work
(56:20):
to do, and that's the one thing that sort of
helps me flow down. So you're giving me a very
nice reminder of that today talking about the generations of
your own family. So thank you.
Speaker 4 (56:33):
Thank you for that. Well, the baby taught it to
us both.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
Listen, babies are magical.
Speaker 4 (56:39):
Yes, indeed.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Well, I know we're just coming up on time, and
I want to make sure I get you out on time.
Thank you for today. I just yeah, I said it earlier.
You one of my favorite people to be within a room,
and I love getting to sit and just digitally hug
on you today.
Speaker 4 (56:59):
Thank you, thank you for making me a part of
this podcast. I think it's such a wildly awesome cool show,
you know, like especially bringing like so many people together
to talk about the the version of ourselves that people
maybe think they know and then see the stuff that's
(57:20):
going on underneath and allowing the space to sort of
explore that dig in. Yeah, and and you know, like
you already said it in some form earlier where it's
like the mess and the you know, like is what
is actually the imperfection is what is making us all beautiful?
(57:41):
And yeah, yeah, it's just great. Thank you, a great show.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Thank you, Thank you so much that means a lot
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress, the
Hey with Smarties. Today we are joined by a woman
that I absolutely adore.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
A formidable talent to be reckoned with.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
A three time Emmy Award winning, Tony Award nominated actress
whose work spands television, film, and theater. Today's guest is
none other than u Zo Aduba. She was born in Boston, Massachusetts,
to parents who immigrated to this country from Nigeria. She
eventually moved to New York to pursue acting and gained
(00:44):
wide recognition for her role as Suzanne Crazy Eyes Warren
on the Netflix original series Orange Is the New Black.
She won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Guest Actress in
twenty fourteen, an Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actress in
twenty fifteen, to two wo SAG Awards for Outstanding Performance
by a Female Actor in a Comedy Series. She is
(01:04):
also one of only two actors to win an Emmy
Award in both the Comedy and Drama categories for the
same role. She's a Legend. In twenty twenty, she played
Shirley Chisholm in the Hulu mini series Missus America. For
which she also won an Emmy Award. And by the way,
it's the coolest glimpse into the history that women have
(01:25):
made in this country. If you haven't seen it, you
must watch it immediately. I could literally spend the next
three minutes reading the rest of her resume. But whether
it's film, television, broadway, Uzo Aduba is an absolute force.
Now she is producing. She has a multi year deal
with CBS Studios. She has set up over a dozen
(01:48):
series projects. I don't know where she finds the time.
And to add to this incredible resume, she is now
a first time author. Her book The Road Is Good.
How a Mother's Strength Became a Daughter's Purpose is a
powerful memoir about immigrant identity, the story of an unforgettable matriarch.
(02:10):
Huzzo's mom is one of a kind. You feel like
you get to know her in these pages, and in
some way, I think her uniqueness is what will make
her feel universal to all of you. She reminded me
in my own ways, of my own family and our
own story. It's just such a beautiful page turner about
a girl grappling with a master juggling act, growing up
(02:35):
one of one in a community, and learning to take
that feeling of being othered and turn it into unique beauty.
This book is more than just the journey of a
young woman has determined to survive young adulthood. It's the
story of how an incredible mother can be such a
testament to stepping into your power. It's so good that
(02:58):
I'm going to stop talking so that we can dive
into this interview and you can hear the marvelous Zoa
Duba speak on this herself.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Enjoy Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
How are you feeling with the book and everything I'm feeling.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I'm feeling a bunch of different feelings, to be honest
with you, I'm feeling excited, nervous, curious, happy, sometimes a
little sad, but supremely thankful at the end of the
(03:49):
day because I was like, oh, man, I wish my
mom was here to get to like see it, you know,
and let's all come together, which is like, of course,
you know, a bummer generally, But at the same time,
on the other side, I'm like, oh my gosh, thank
god we got to have that time together and her
(04:10):
to like pour back over me, you know, all all
of the lessons and experiences and stories and things that
we've gone through, seen together or before, be reminded of
her own story with that like detail of knowing you know,
I'm really telling this to you and I needed to
(04:31):
hold on to it. So yeah, I'm glad that I
even had that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just really striking me
in real time that that is this sort of silver
lining of a tragedy is when you know time is fleeting,
rather than it ending out of the blue, you probably
get to gather and be together and communicate in ways
(04:57):
that are deeper. Perhaps then the way we can just
walk through the world sometimes taking for granted a moment
with someone you love or you know.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
Absolutely, my my dear dear friend Iris, she said it
to me once as she had her life had been
touched by cancer, and she said it, you know, just
sort of just said it. She was like, you know,
there's a strange there's a strange blessing in cancer. It
(05:28):
gives you time to say and do all the things,
you know, which is true because you don't want it,
and you know, I would rather us not to have that.
This is we're candid out blessings. Don't give me that one,
you know.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
What I mean, Like I would have loved to have
perhaps picked a.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Different one exactly exactly, but it is that sort of fortune.
And like we had started this book that had scotten,
had the proposal draft, started the proposal and was in
connection with my publisher, Viking before my mom was six.
(06:08):
So then when I sat down to write it, she
was six. So when we started diving into some of
these you know, stories in this proposal, with the proposal
that was not the book I was setting out to write, honestly,
the book that I wrote, the book that I was
setting out to write. I thought it was just going to.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Be like, yeah, lessons exactly, lessons are just being black lah,
you know, like that's going to be like the book.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
And then it was like, oh wait, now like these lessons,
I got to really hear these lessons and like really
get her story and like, so yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Wow, this is incredible. I have so many more questions obviously,
because you you know, my friend just wrote a book. Hello,
But I I really like to go back with people
before we go to my favorite first official question to
ask someone. I actually have to do a sort of
in between the now and then and just rewind us
(07:13):
like a quick couple of weeks and say, I got
to recap the DNC with you because it was so
special to be there. It was so special for me.
It's not lost on me that I always see you
in my favorite and seemingly most like spiritually or soulfully
important rooms. I'm always like, yeah, of course, here this trap.
(07:38):
And I was saying when I got home to my partner,
I was like, oh, I bawled like a baby every
single night. There was like a point in the night
where I'd be like, tonight, I'm not going to cry,
and then I would just sob Did you have that too?
Did you? Were you in the sort of washing machine
of excitement and overwhelm or did you just like keep
it together better?
Speaker 4 (07:56):
No? No, no, no, no. I was in. I was
in in the tears room. I was in the joy
bounce house room. I was in like the college lecture,
lean in and listen to Professor Presidents Barack Obama and
first Lady Professor Michelle ob You know. I was all
of those things. And then the culmination of her ascendants
(08:21):
to the state of presidential formal presidential nominee that was
it was overwhelming and yes, like we have been in
those spaces, even if we are to chart and track
you and I in January twenty seventeen being in Washington, DC,
(08:43):
you remember all those women yes, and the response and
the weight of that moment. And then to flash ourselves
forward a short eight years later, seven and three quarters
years later, and here we are now again, gathered, but
(09:08):
this time watching it not only happen again, but feeling
the understanding of the real possibility that even it that
we're not going back, I mean, like to quote her directly,
(09:29):
when we're not going back, you know that we're America
is determining, determined in some capacity to push forward, because
here we are trying it yet again.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well, yeah, determined in some capacity to be what we
claim to be to be for everyone. It's not supposed
to be that hard. But obviously we've all studied our history,
and to feel really close to it in this way
now after where we've all been feels, you know, I think,
(10:02):
even more magical than it did the first potential time around,
when we thought, oh, we might have a president that
also represents us as women, you know, and it I
don't know, it hits me especially, I wonder if it
does for you too, I mean, you obviously have the
completely different experience. I can only watch, but I don't
(10:23):
in habit of being a black woman watching a black
woman being nominated for this office. And I think about
it just what it means to me for women in general,
and that she manages for us, you know, as people
lucky enough to reside in California, we've gotten to watch
her for so long in all of these different offices
(10:43):
to lead, you know, in small ways when not a
ton of people were paying attention, maybe outside of our state,
and in these massive ways, you know, for all of
us across the nation now, and it's I don't know,
it's like so silly, not her mom, but I have
this very intense like sense of pride. I'm like, that's
(11:04):
our girl, that's our attorney general, and.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
You know she is well, and you think about it,
what like it's like, I definitely one hundred percent agree
with you. I think of it in terms of being
a woman. I think of it in terms of being
a black woman, a woman of color, O first generation woman,
you know, which as a child of immigrants. You know,
I connect. I really do see my story when I
(11:30):
see her up.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
There to.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
What it takes to carve out a life for yourself
as immigrants in America, and that all you want really
is just to see the American dream made possible for
your own children. My mother growing up. My American dream
is for you people to live your dream. That's that's
the goal. That's the simple goal. And for her to
(11:55):
have not only met it, but you know, multiplied at
times one thousand, is just a testament to her strength
or intelligence, her ability, her capability, her readiness. You know,
somebody who has been a courtroom prosecutor, elevated to district attorney,
(12:16):
elevated to attorney general, elevated. And by the way, when
I say elevated, it's elected, really yes, elected to the
office of US Senator, which is in itself as a
black woman is underrepresented, and then finally elected to the
office of Vice president, and now seeking the votes and
(12:37):
election of president. You know, in a space where that
just has not been done, It hasn't happened. There hasn't
never been a female president yet. And that she has
all of these high, high elevated marks on her resume
(12:58):
and experience as compared to the other side. I think
also women that resumes with a lot of women as well.
How hard you have to work to even be seen. Yes,
you're nineteen thousand points of experience on your resume and
still be questioned yes.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Oh well, I mean I think I think today we're
what fifty days out on the day of recording together,
so let's keep our feet on the gas America. So
it's it's a perfect kind of transition point because the
usual first question I like to ask people is this,
And we're talking about in your answer to the last question,
(13:44):
some of the way that you grew up. And I
think about this a lot because I get to sit
down with people when you're so known for something or
so many things as you are, and I like to
know who you were before we all knew you. And
I wonder if you could, you know, jumped into the
space time continuum and sit down with your eight year
(14:06):
old self, would you see this version of yourself in her?
Or did everything following the path of your life wind
up surprising you? Or is it maybe a little bit
of both.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
I would say a little bit of both. I am,
thankfully a lot calmer than I was. Anyone would tell
you my siblings, any person, I was very precocious, wild
imagination thought. But that part I think is still true.
You know, I've always thought anything is possible. Anything. I
(14:42):
still think that. Maybe that's dangerous, I don't know, but
I think anything is possible. And so I'm glad that
part of myself still exists. But oh man, when I
was a kid, I was like ripping. I was like,
good on, you know what I mean, every all of
those idea. I was like, let's drive them off, you know,
like let's make a parachute out of our bed sheets
(15:04):
and jump off the roof. And it's like no, no, no, no, no,
Like you know, that actually doesn't work. Little girl, You know,
That's that's what I'm talking about, you know a little
bit of like what is it Ramona Quimby? If you
ever read those books, He's Ramona Quimby. I had a
lot of romonic Q. Wimby and me when I was little.
(15:24):
And but yeah, but I also believed anything was possible.
Something that was told to me by my mom, my
mom an example to me by her as well. Right
over here you can't quite see it, but like this
little piece of wood that's back there is a little
(15:46):
quote of hers as a quote of hers that she
used to say to my siblings and I our whole lives,
and it was I've never heard of nothing coming from
hard work and the living, breathing example of that to me,
and it stuck with all of my siblings, and when
she said it to me before I moved to New York,
(16:06):
when I first started out, it really stuck like gum
to my bones, like I've seen this woman do this,
and I'm just gonna have to work harder than I've
ever worked before to try and make this happen if
I'm serious, Because I think she knows what she's talking about,
and I think I would say that is like something
(16:29):
that's always been a part of me, like just like,
let's get down and dirty and work with this.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's
a word from our sponsors. Well, And I imagine that
that is so indicative of who she was and her
spirit and also, as you mentioned earlier, part of a
thing that I think any child of immigrants goes, Oh yeah,
(16:56):
that kind of work ethic, that willing to do what
it takes, and then some it is something I think
so many people who come here share, and I wonder
what for you growing up, and you know, before you
moved to New York and your Massachusetts suburb was like
you know, I know you talk in the book about
(17:18):
how there weren't many people who looked like you where
you grew up, and probably not a lot of people
who came from where your parents came from. And were
you always aware of that experience of being an immigrant
family in your community.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Yeah, definitely, so definitely always aware. I remember, and I'm
still friends with one of my neighbors, Karen Lung. She
lives here in La too, and her she was first gen.
She is first gen too. Her family's from China, and
she lived around the corner. And my best friend, Simmy
was let's girl right here. Oh, Simmy also first Jen
(17:57):
her family from India. We've been friends since thirteen. And
that was it in our town. Maybe in my grade,
I should say, that was it. I have one more girl,
and that was it, you know, like very very very small,
few spatterings, and none of them African, none of them Nigerian,
(18:18):
you know, and so it was it was you are
aware as you're unpacking your lunch and everybody's like, what's that,
you know, and You're like it's Choe Off Race and
it's delicious, you know, you know, it's amazing delicious, It's delicious.
You know, I mean really just want like Peb and
(18:39):
Jay like everybody else. You know, it's from it's that
wide to them getting more granular too, quite literally, you know,
something as mundane as wanting to talk about hair or
you know, there's you remember, Disney used to have like
(19:00):
on Sunday, like Disney movies like Made for Sunday Night Night,
I forget what it's called, and Wonder World World of
Disney or something like this, and you know, everybody would
watch all the Disney things. And then this one that
came out called Polly that was like an all black
adaptation of Pollyanna that I watched an all a family watch.
(19:22):
When you come to school and you're like, did you
guys watch Polly last night? And they're like, no, what's that?
And you're just curious why no one tuned in to
watch that one but tuned into the four before that,
you know, to then as real as the experiences that
we talk about today in culture, you know, just your
(19:43):
family is walking in the neighborhood, you have an honor
uncle visiting and people aren't familiar with who they are,
and then all of a sudden the police show up,
and you know, things like this, You know you're so
you have alerts that are making you aware along the way.
I'm I'm different for some people here, but also then
(20:03):
some amazing people who are celebrating you in that difference.
Also something that I'm also grateful or grateful for that
there were some people in our community and in my
life friends of mine as well, who saw that difference,
celebrated it and really were, you know, protectors for my parents,
(20:31):
me and my siblings to help us sort of shuttle
through and get through at points. But yeah, I think
every kid just wants to fit in, surpritinly whatever your
difference is. Yeah, and you're just trying to find your
space in the world. But I'm thankful that I did
discover and learn that, you know, my differences are important,
(20:58):
and I'm really grateful it's taught like to hold on
to them, whether that's my name, whether that's my gap,
you know, all these things.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, I think about that a lot when you smile,
and like friends of mine who have the most arrestingly
beautiful facial characteristic like your gap, and I think, like, God,
I'm so relieved that not everyone's been convinced to erase
their uniqueness. I didn't get a cool gap. I had
(21:27):
to get braces because my canine teeth came in up here,
and I.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Was like, it was, I'll find you a photo.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Sometimes deeply, deeply not cute, deeply needed to be fixed.
But I just like, I don't know, I was always struck.
Lauren Hutton said this thing a long time ago.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
That was it her?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Or was it Jamie Lee Curtis. One of them said
something about how they were afraid that given the sort
of culture we find ourselves in, with everybody getting so
much done to themselves, they said, you know, I think
we're erasing a whole generation of beauty.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
To be given the ability to cherish who you are
in your uniqueness, I think is so important when you're young,
because everyone gets picked on for whatever reason. They might
be different when we're young, because kids are amazing and
they're also so mean, and it's like you grow up
and the thing you get picked on for is the
thing that becomes the most beautiful and celebrated about you.
And I don't know, I love that. I love hearing
(22:26):
about the kind of household you grew up in where
you were. Yes, of course you were aware, but it
seems like you really were given an awareness of the
whole spectrum of experience from what was hard to what
was beautiful, and you were always taught to hold on
to yourself in it. And that's so cool.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Yeah, you know, I think, I mean, it's like not
to talk so much about her, but I mean, I'm
happy to talk about my mom all the time. But
it's like, you know, she was coming from a place
where a gap is a sign of beauty in Africa,
so she not getting my issue, you know, And I
was I was begging her for braces and my team
(23:06):
are perfectly fine, you know, like there's there, there's nothing
there except that I have a gap. And she'd be like, oozo,
don't you know that in Nigeria a gap is a
sign of beauty. And I was like, we live in
medfield messages as you mom exactly then you know what
I mean, like that kind of a thing. But thank god,
(23:29):
she was like really insistent on it, because she would
go on and she's like everyone in our family, my
family has what she coined a'm you all cool, which
is her maiden name. Gap Everyone has it and I
don't have it, and I wish I had it, and
it's like, thank god I didn't, because I grew up
and I fell in love with my smiles. I even
(23:50):
have a hard time now so they honestly, like on
the carpet sometimes when it's like giving fear space, like
because for so many years I'm not checking. For so
many years when I was a kid, I would not
smile a closed mouth smile like this is my face
like that, just because I didn't like it. And then
(24:12):
just because of a photographer for my senior high school
pictures said I think you have a beautiful smile. It
changed my whole world to the point I started smiling
all the time. And now I'm on carpets and I'm
trying to give like a fierce faith. I can't because
(24:32):
I love to smile. Now I feel like I'm making
up for lost smiles, you know, likes of just not
doing it that. I'm like, I love my smile now,
and I'm so thankful that she didn't let my insecurity,
let my difference dictate the woman I would become. She
(24:55):
was like, no, you're standing that and You're going to
fall in love with yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
That's so special, And I think about what that gives
you too. You know, as you begin to shift your
experience and then you're going to leave home and you
do as you said, move to New York to try
to do this thing. And you know you were working
as an actress in the theater. I know that, and
I love these stories that right before you booked Oranges
(25:21):
the New Black, after the full journey, you were like
this close to quitting and then you booked the show.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Were you did you book that in New York?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Had you moved to la Like, how did we get
from this aha moment at the end of high school
to you almost left the industry and here we are today?
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Right? I booked it in New York. I had been
a play and the manager I was working with at
the time she I had always let me start with.
I had always wanted to do film and television, but
I just had never again, I had not seen anyone
like myself in that space, so I didn't I didn't
(26:03):
feel invited to the table in a way that made
me feel like it was even worth giving it a go.
And in the theater space, I felt like I saw more,
a little bit more of myself, so I was comfortable there.
So anyway, so I started working with a manager who
saw me in the play I was doing at the time,
and she was from Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Oh God.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
He said that she thought I should give it a
try to do film and television. And honestly, I genuinely
believe it's because she was from Hollywood that I was like,
she must know something like that made me get just
like an inch more confidence. So I started auditioning for
film and television that summer. She said, We're not going
(26:48):
to audition for any place, just film and television. And
at that point in my career, I was making a
living doing theater, not a fancy living or anything, just
but up my look, you know. Like, so I was
watching my nose for all of my auditions go up
(27:08):
and my bank account going down, and I was really doubting,
Like I just did not think. I thought it was right. Honestly,
I thought it was right in not try having tried,
like this is exactly how I thought it was going
to go, and this is how it's going. And you know,
(27:29):
I had reached the point where I was like, it's
time to get off this you know, this boat, off
this ship and try something else. In tears, I prayed
up and said I was going to go to law
school become alwayer because that's what I thought. I was
going to do my whole life anyway. And I thought
it was gonna be a lobbyist because I loved political science.
(27:51):
That's gonna moved to DC and be a lobbyist. I
had no idea lobby And then I got home, ordered sushi,
ordered to my sister to come over because I was
going to tell her first, and I was gonna quit.
It was a Friday on Monday. I was gonna call
my manager and my agent at the time and tell
them that I was done. And then five forty three
(28:14):
pm exactly, I'll never forget it. On that Friday in September,
my phone rang and I got the job for Oranges
a New Black, and Wow, my life has never been
the same.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Rightly, we'll be back in just a minute. After a
few words from our favorite sponsors. I had to really
think about this because we forget that this was one
of the first shows on Netflix. It wasn't this streaming
(28:51):
juggernaut yet, you know, it was the company that started
with DVDs. They would mail you of movies you could watch. Now,
I think we almost take for granted how much content
is available. And you, ladies, I mean, you blew open
the world of television, of who got to be on TV,
(29:12):
of what kinds of stories got to be told on TV.
It was so of color, it was so queer.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
It was so.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Like, I can't even explain it, like the breath of
fresh air. I felt beginning to watch you all on
that show, and I was like, Oh, the things that
feel the most sacred as a storyteller really can happen.
Was it incredible? Did you have any idea how big
(29:43):
it would be? Or was the sort of explosion of
it a shock to you as well?
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Oh it's total shock, a total shock. And you have
to know this too, write in your own experience that
it's like you can't you make the thing and you
don't know what it's going to be or not be.
And I mean, at this point, like to your point,
it's like Netflix, wasn't I thought it was a web
series if.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
You're asking me, And I was like a short film
on YouTube exactly.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
I was like YouTube, Like people were asking me. I
was like I don't know where it's gonna be a YouTube,
you know, like that sort of thing. So I had
no idea whatsoever. I only one of my castmates, can
I recall, so Lenis Leva, who called it like early.
She called it early. She was like, I think this
is gonna be good. And I remember sitting with her
(30:31):
being like, why what makes you think? Then she's like,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
I just I just have a feeling.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
She's like, it's step a feeling. And I was like, Okay,
we're gonna be massive on YouTube, you know, like this
is gonna be great, you know, like cool. No idea,
but I did know that I had never seen done
anything like this or seen stories like these told like
I had never been in an experience before where I
(30:59):
had seen so many different groups of women, types of women,
eighs to shades, to energy, to identity to gender, all
of it like I had never seen it, And that
(31:21):
felt and told through stories that were exciting and inspiring
as an actor, I had never had that before, and
that was pretty cool, and I was just happy to
be there, you know. Honestly, we all were. Frankly, we
all were just really into it and stoked and to
(31:42):
see like the full three sixties view of what it
needs to be a woman, that it's like a narrow way.
We'd seen stories told to watch it like wide and
you know, for another group, yeah, was awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
And how did you This is just a nerdy actor
to actor question. I'm like, how did you prepare for
that role? You know? What was it like to try
to figure out how to crack Suzanne?
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Yeah? You know, for me, when I read the script
originally and she's introduced, I remember I just thought it
was a love story. I wasn't so focused on Okay,
she's crazy, so now like let's play crazy. I was like, well,
what does that even mean? You know, like because the
description of her is like she's almost like you know,
(32:36):
she's she's what it was like like a child like
she had like a childlike element about hers. I remember
was something in it the description, and I remember latching
onto that, and that to me felt like innocence pure
and that means all of her reactions are they are
(32:58):
not the reactions of an adult, and maybe that might
come across like different or crazy, and I just remember
thinking that was my anchor, that she would do anything
for love, and that was all I was concentrating on
the rest. I was like, what, however it comes out,
(33:20):
it will come out. But what she's trying to communicate
is she does not play with the people. She loves
anything to protect people. She loves anything, even if that
seems off the rails to the outsider, makes perfect sense
to her.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I love that. And that gives you something too, especially
in the world of TV, where no matter what is
in the next script that you had no idea was coming,
you have a kind of ground zero for her, no matter.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
What for yourself.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yes, wow, And then you go, I guess I'm just
thinking my brain is, you know, giving me this sort
of montage of scenes from that show and then scenes
from in treatment and thinking about this completely different person
you know that you got to play and and what
a cool thing in a way to have to get inside,
(34:15):
you know, the mind of someone like Suzanne and then
to literally flip in the other direction and play the
therapist who might treat someone like.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Her exactly like to do that?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Are you just binge watching Esther Perel and Doctor Tama
or are you reading like the Body keeps the score?
Speaker 2 (34:34):
How do you get into that headspace?
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yes, yes, the body keeps the score and myself also
being in therapy, although I was not using my therapy sessions,
let me be clear for a character or study. But
therapist is like, she's like, you're watching me exactly. No.
I for that, I kind of thought of Brooke Taylor,
(35:04):
my character and entreatment. I was like, as a container
m her job is to whole. Everybody's gonna come in
here and they are going to pour whatever whatever is
in their cup into you. And what because I've I've
often wondered what a hard job that must be to
(35:27):
hold people's stuff. And we do it as actors, but
short lived. For the Preach character, there's a time it's
gonna we're gonna cut and then we get to put
it down and move away from it when you know,
(35:47):
use our tools to do that. And but that's also
born out of imagination versus really meeting a person who
is pouring into you their stuff. And so for me
it became an exercise of coming in first with like
a teacup to a jug to a Stanley cup, you know,
(36:11):
like sometimes it just kept getting bigger and bigger. The
cup and the work of what it must be to
hold can be the container for other people's stuff while
also going through your own, which was at the time
she had her own stuff, and if it was just
(36:33):
a strong reminder and one that I needed at that
point in my life because I went into that job
just after my mom moved to heaven, right after she
moved to heaven, that you've got to deal with your
stuff before you start trying to tackle anything else. Because
(36:54):
and that's not to say that I did it right then,
because I certainly didn't, and I'm still moving through. But
you got to deal with your stuff and make sure
you have your broom and try and sweep up as
much as you can on your side of the street
(37:15):
or else. This is going to be like a total mess.
And I feel that even now more strongly now having
had my daughter m Yeah, that it's like all of
the stuff, like you, I don't want to give her
my stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah, I think especially for women, you know, I don't
think you can do all the big research on all
the feelings and the therapy without coming across these incredible,
you know, stories and proofs of this idea of generational inheritance,
right and what we passed down and particularly this matrilineal
(37:54):
Wine yep and I think so much about the way
you talk about your mother's effect and impact on your
life and the impact that then you have had for
so long with these characters you play. You know, you've
you've put yourself into these shows that come part of
(38:17):
the zeitgeist, that represent people in situations and places we
haven't seen before, that that are inherently you could say,
pushing the envelope, creating progress, you could say political in
simply existing. And I think about the ways that you
use your platform to speak out for people. And you
were doing all of this before you had your daughter,
(38:41):
who you knew you were going to pass the world too.
And I wonder if it does it all make sense
to you now, like, oh, of course it was always
for her, Or does it make you want to double
down on who you are and how brave you are
and and the person you are out in the world
because of her?
Speaker 4 (38:59):
Oh, me want to double down? It makes sense, But
it makes me want to double down, especially now you
know we open this conversation we're talking about like DNC.
When I think about like the world and the world
as it exists today and the world that could potentially
exist once I moved to have it God willing, please
take me down everybody. You know, Like, when I'm not
(39:26):
here with her anymore, it's like, what am I going
to leave her? Because I was left with the law
and I do not want to leave her with less
than I was given. Yeah, you know, Maya Angelou has
a quote from her poem, has a line in her
poem on the dusk on the dawn of morning, dusk
(39:49):
of morning, excuse me, And the line says that our
passages have been paid for. And my passage was paid for,
and I want to do everything in my power to
fight for the things that I believe in, to stand
up to the people or ideas that counter the good
(40:12):
of my child to ensure that her passage was paid
for as well. You know, I'm ferocious about that, and
I don't know that I knew that how ferocious I was,
and I didn't need to be a mom to be that.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Let me be here.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
We all have that, any person who has passion for
the life of another person. But it has made me
want to just make sure that I pour into her
as I was poured into m.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
HM and now for our sponsors. So when you think
about that, you know, and you said earlier the book
that you thought you were going to write changed in
between deciding what the book was about and beginning to
write it. Your mom was diagnosed. When you think about
(41:06):
then having to set out to pour into these pages
to make the road is good, which is also the
meaning of your name, it feels really emotional just as
a person talking to you about it. How did you
(41:27):
begin to kind of make sense of, Oh, these are
the things I have to write down. These are the
stories I know I want to preserve because of course
it's for the reader, but it's also for.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
You, Yeah, you know, I think for me. How I
started to get the sense of what to write down
and to include was first starting to think about what
we're if we're going to stay with this, like road metaphor, right,
what were the intersections in the road my mother's story
(42:02):
crossed with mine in terms when she was a kid,
my age, and my experiences those overlaps, And then where
were those forks in the road where my life diverged
from hers, or where I could clearly see like no,
if I had done this way, life would have been
(42:22):
totally different in a trip. But I went this way,
and so I want to include those points in the story,
and then I think the final piece was thinking about
my name and its meaning. My name means the road
is good, but what it's slightly more nuanced, and it
means like the journey was worth It means like if
(42:42):
you were to come to my house and we were
supposed to meet at three, but you got a flat
tire and then torrential rain came down, and oh, man,
there's an accident on the side of the road and
fifty car pile up and ran out again because you
were in traffic so long, and now you're here at
(43:03):
four thirty, an hour and a half late. But the
sun suddenly came out and it's beautiful, and I would say,
too came my goals or how was how was the trip?
The journey? And you would say, oh, Zamaka, it was hard,
but it's worth it because I'm here now with you.
Is what it means. The journey here wasn't easy, It
(43:25):
wasn't ave. The road is muddy and has potholes and
and and you know it has gravel sometimes, but all
of that was worth it because it brought me here.
And that's why my parents named me that. You know,
my mom, you can read people will read it in
(43:46):
the book. It's like she survived polio. My mother survived
the the Affrons civil war against her people, which she
like worked in and like crazy capacity, you know, like
for the government and for writers. She had been through
a lot, you know, had been through a lot. And
(44:10):
she said she was widowed at thirty six, you know,
and then she still had me and was like it
was all worth it because you're here.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
I actually, it's funny. I took a I went back
through my notes and I I was looking at really,
I guess it's the preface of the book where you're
explaining this. And the thing that I really love about
it when you talk about the fact that it's so
much more nuanced than all of it being good, right,
(44:45):
is that you're you actually carry gratitude in the response,
which is your name for the whole journey. Yeah, And
I think to be able to see the purpose in
the pain and be grateful for the joy and all
all of it. You know, it's it's really everything you've
ever been through that has brought you to this point
(45:06):
that you are in your life. And I think when
you can resoundingly lean into the gratitude for your journey
and not be so mad about what was tough. Everything changes, yes,
and it that that I believe is a magical experience
as a human And that's what this book feels like
for me as a reader. Like your whole book, your
(45:30):
story and your mother's story are so incredibly unique. Obviously,
I've never lived through a civil war, nor had pollio,
but ah, like I see myself in this book. This
this like beautiful, real, muddy humanness, and it's I don't know,
(45:52):
it's really you know, I'm a I'm a nerd who
likes to read, and this is it's really so tremendously special.
I just really thank you for sharing in the way.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
They thank you, thank you. And it wasn't easy. You know,
it's not easy. Thank you for that. Seriously, it wasn't
easy because you know, you get uncomfortable wondering, like, oh my,
you're saying these things out loud and so open sharing
it with the world. But yeah, so open, and I'm
(46:21):
not I share with my circle, but I'm not like
a world chair typically And it's been which is probably
why I have nerves going into its relief, because I like,
is it possible to like not? But you know, it's
not already no, but it's like it gave me such
(46:45):
a release and a relief to put some of these
things down on paper and to tell my truth in
that way. And who and what Also like what a
(47:06):
I didn't know it when it was happening, but like
what a gift and come for stations and time I
gave me, but also gave her to get to just
(47:30):
talk about her life.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
And did getting to have these conversations with her, you know,
whether you talk about how for her your your teeth
or such a mark of beauty. You talk in the
book about how for such a long time you wanted
to change your name, you know, to Zoe because easy
American assimilation story, And then there's so much about how,
(47:56):
in whatever way you felt that you wanted to blend in,
you've really taken up the mantle and standing out and
being exactly who you are that I know is a
life's work. But in having these conversations with her, do
you feel like you got that that sort of confidence
and purpose and sense of self like just high dose
(48:19):
like mainline into the veins, like oh my god, this
is why I'm here and this is my this is
my whole destiny to be here and I'm seeing it
in myself because of her.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
Yes, absolutely, you know, like I feel like I've arrived now,
you know, like I think, I think I didn't even realize.
Whether it's like the quitting with Orange, whether it's my gap,
whether it's my name, whether it's being the only you
know Nigerians in our hometown. All of these things, whether
it's hearing no, you know, all of these things were
(48:52):
the walk along the road that we're making it hard,
including having to figure out how to live without her,
But all of that was worth it because I'm here
now and it would not be where I am right now,
in this space, in this moment in my life, able
(49:15):
to hold my head up high proudly say that my
name is Uzama with the fully open gap inside my
mouth splintering my two front teeth, and say that proudly
and say too that I am proud to be none yeah,
my Aduba's daughter. That all of that had to happen
(49:39):
for me to be able to say and do that.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
Hm, that's so beautiful from this place, you know, this fullness.
I know there's nerves obviously about about the book because
it's you and your life and it's about to be
out in the world. Do do you look around and
immediately have a next drive, you know, some next motivation
(50:09):
or are you really trying to just be present and
relish in this moment and this feeling, or are you
you know, every the accomplished woman that you are multitasking
and doing it all at the same time.
Speaker 4 (50:23):
I'm doing other things. But I am. I love that question.
I really do, like I am really trying to stay
in the presence of this, mostly because I think even still,
it's it's easier to push it away and specifically to
(50:46):
this book, to not sit in it and memorialize all
the parts of it because of the discomfort that it
might bring up that point, the nerves, all these things, sadness,
all these things. But it's like I want to stay
in that. I want to I want I want to
(51:08):
give my life, my mom's life, the honor and respect
and time that they both that they deserve to stay
in it. But I have things going in the background,
you know still, you know, like I'm producing now that
we you and I'm mutually our teen angel City go see,
(51:32):
you know, like we have things always going. But I
do want to like stand in celebration of this moment
because I've never done anything like this before.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's sort of incredible. You look around at
your life and you think, God, I've achieved all of
these things. And in a way, every time something happens
and then the next thing requires a new start. You know,
it's a it's a neat I always joke that it's
like the coolest and the most stressful part of what
(52:02):
we do for a living. Yes, but it is beautiful
and it's very cool to get to watch you in
this moment. It's it's really for me, always something I
cherish when I can palpably feel the joy of people
that I really adore. I'm like, God, this is nice.
(52:22):
Good for you. I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
In this in this moment, you know, as you as
you try to hold all of it, and there's all
sorts of things going on. What feels like your work
in progress? Is it as a mom is it personal?
Is it professional? Is it kind of a mix of
all things?
Speaker 4 (52:48):
I mean, definitely, motherhood is a for sure work in progress.
Just I think I'm constantly defining, redefining, having no definition
of the type of the type of mother I want
(53:09):
to be, not because of like what I think I
should be but like, like she's ten months and I'm
so clear that she's already paying attention and what she
is paying attention to I don't know, hopefully, but I
am aware that I that she's awake. Yeah, and I
(53:34):
want to be sure that what she's taking in to
the best of my ability are things that I want
her to hold on too, like and for them to
be true things, not like things that she saw me
do that aren't true, or you know that like now
(53:56):
she thinks like you can't you must wear makeup every day,
you must you know whatever, you know, little things like
that that I don't want her to not that I
but you know, I just don't want to adopt things
as truths that now start to define her. And that's
been interesting because it's like I almost think motherhood is
(54:19):
teaching me a lot about me too in that capacity,
like my words, because I know she's listening. I'm like,
are you really gonna say that about your she's listening,
do you know what I'm saying? That's what I mean
about truth. So that's definitely like a work in progress,
(54:43):
which I guess in term means that I'm just like
in progress for myself too in some ways. And I
guess also I'm a little bit of work in progress,
Like I see it at my baby patience not a
super patient, per I always am like when when when
(55:07):
when you know and I can see my daughter, I'm like,
she might be getting that for me, Like she's like,
I'm like, no, you got I get to work on
my patients, to teach her patient. Yeah, And by that
I mean like to not to not question that's or
(55:27):
to wonder beyond this moment right here. M it will
come when it's meant to come.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Oh, it's so hard, especially I think when you have,
as you were saying earlier, that kind of ferocious love
for other people, for a community, for justice, like God,
patience is so tough. But I think there's it's not
an accident that we're having this conversation about you and
(55:57):
your daughter, and we've also been having this conversation about
you and your mother. Because I have to remind myself
when I hope for a quick solution or when when when,
as you're saying, I remind myself that we're in this
generational project together and that each generation has its work
(56:20):
to do, and that's the one thing that sort of
helps me flow down. So you're giving me a very
nice reminder of that today talking about the generations of
your own family. So thank you.
Speaker 4 (56:33):
Thank you for that. Well, the baby taught it to
us both.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
Listen, babies are magical.
Speaker 4 (56:39):
Yes, indeed.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Well, I know we're just coming up on time, and
I want to make sure I get you out on time.
Thank you for today. I just yeah, I said it earlier.
You one of my favorite people to be within a room,
and I love getting to sit and just digitally hug
on you today.
Speaker 4 (56:59):
Thank you, thank you for making me a part of
this podcast. I think it's such a wildly awesome cool show,
you know, like especially bringing like so many people together
to talk about the the version of ourselves that people
maybe think they know and then see the stuff that's
(57:20):
going on underneath and allowing the space to sort of
explore that dig in. Yeah, and and you know, like
you already said it in some form earlier where it's
like the mess and the you know, like is what
is actually the imperfection is what is making us all beautiful?
(57:41):
And yeah, yeah, it's just great. Thank you, a great show.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Thank you, Thank you so much that means a lot
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Bethany Joy Lenz
Sophia Bush
Robert Buckley
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