April 28, 2025 • 32 mins
Kim Ng, a trailblazer in the sports world who has made history as the first female general manager in Major League Baseball, joins AJ to discuss her career spanning over 21 years in the front offices of the White Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers, and three World Series rings. Kim now serves as a Senior Advisor for Athletes Unlimited Softball League. The discussion delves into the challenges and triumphs of being a woman in professional sports, the importance of perseverance, and the growth and future of women's sports, particularly softball.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Athletes, Unlimited Softball League and Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I felt like I also had to keep going because
I needed others to see me keep going.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
All right, what's up, y'all? Welcome to Dropping Diamonds with
Me AJ Andrews, where we dive headfirst into the softball world.
This guest today I'm so excited to talk to because
she is a trailblazer. She has marked his free by
breaking barriers and continuously creating opportunities for all women in sports,
but specifically now it's going to be doing more in
(00:48):
the softball community. With a combined twenty one years in
the front offices of Chicago White Sox, New York Yankees,
and Los Angeles Dodgers, she has three World Series rings,
not on today, but three World Series rings. Before joining
the Marlins as the first woman general manager in North
American sports history, she spent nine years as a senior
(01:09):
vice president from Major League Baseball, kim ing, thank you
so much for joining.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Me today, AJ, how are you? Yes? With those World
Series rings, we could be dropping a lot of.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Diamonds dropping a lot of diamonds. Okay, well, next time
I'm with you, can you please have them on? So
I will do that, we can drop all of them.
How many diamonds do you think we'd drop with those rings?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Well, there was definitely one for each World Series they
had previously won, so there's at least seventy five.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, will we drop seventy five diamonds on this podcast today?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay, we only have let's stook for seventy two. Yeah,
we got it. So thinking of dropping diamonds, I loved to,
especially as athletes and being in the sports world, quotes
or sayings that really resonated through with us throughout time,
and one of my favorite ones is actually with you
as a guest today, I definitely wanted to make sure
I put it out there was no one can make
(02:04):
you feel inferior without your consent and throughout this with
an affirmation I want to bring out with that quote,
it's I'm a queen, I'm a dream, I do what
I want to do, I am who I want to be.
How do you feel that one can.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Check you out? I like that? God, I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
No, It's absolutely amazing, and it makes sense that you
are saying.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Thank you, thank you. What is a quota or saying
that you feel like has really resonated with you throughout
your career in sports?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Just do it, m you know, I'm like, yeah, man,
I understand, I understand. But that is something that came
out probably twenty five years ago when I was just
starting out my career, and it has always stuck with
me because that's always been my attitude, you know, just
put your nose to the grindstone and get it done,
you know, being a woman in professional sports. Yeah, that's
(02:58):
a lot of what I've had to do is particularly
being one of the only women in men's professional sports,
and you know, there's just been a lot of obstacles
and hurdles that we've had to overcome. But in the end,
all you have to do is just do it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I feel when you hear the words just do it, it
simplifies all of the thought process that could come along,
the overthinking, the self doubt. For you, in the moment
when you kind of came to the realization of I'm
going to just do it, when did you realize that
was a saying that you wanted to really live by.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I can't say it was every single day, but it
made me. I mean, but that's sort of the reality
of it, you know, for us, you know, when we
were the only ones trying to pave that path, you know,
and there were not very many examples period, and so
everything that was in your face where you weren't sure,
you just go back to the simplicity. Don't think too
(03:52):
much about what's going on around you. You know, you
have the ability, you know, you're prepared, You've done your work,
and now it's just about getting it done. So that's
really It's been the one that has resonated throughout my
career for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Just to it. It reminds me thinking our coach told
me when I was first playing softball, you can't think
and hit at the same time. So if you're trying
to get a hey, you just gotta get up and go.
You can't think and hit. And you also played softball,
starting your long career of excellence and bat and ball
sports playing at the University of Chicago middle infielder.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Right, yeah, the corners too.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, don't get that third. Yes, gosh, I feel like
you have to be a baby literally.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Well, I look at third I look at the athletes now,
and god, I was an idiot. I was doing that.
I mean, you're just so close to the ball and
all comes, you know, just at you pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Did you always have that mentality of just do it?
Did you have that when you're in college as well?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I did? Yeah, I did, And I was known for
stuff like that. I was a little bit crazier. I mean,
I think I keep the crazy tamp down pretty well.
You can't really tell sometimes, yeah, sometimes don't piss me off. Yeah,
but now, it was always that mentality, probably from I
think I was a pretty tough kid. I grew up
in some difficult circumstances, and so you know, that was
(05:11):
just the mentality we had to have.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
What do you feel like is your biggest takeaway from
playing collegiate softball really throughout? I'm sure do you play
Little league as well? Prior to that?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
So I did from the time I was like twelve on.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Okay. Yeah, when you think back to your softball career,
what do you feel like you learn the most that
you still utilize today. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I feel like the discipline was probably the most important thing.
I think the discipline and the willingness to do repetitions, right, Like,
I never really got bored of it, and so I
think that's the one thing about my personality and my
character is that you just keep grinding at it until
you I mean, perfection is not something we really achieve,
(05:57):
but until you get it to a satisfactory level. Let's
say that, right, and not a good one. Yeah, I've yeah, exactly.
That was always part of my personalities, just the repetitions
and the willingness to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I think when you have that willingness, you know, it
never really leaves you. I mean you always know what
hard work is. And that is something that is really
the foundation of my career.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
That determination, the discipline, and the willingness to succeed even
throughout failures and a lot of trial and error. How
did you view overcoming failure?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, you define success and failure by your own standards, Yeah, right, Like,
I mean, there's just so many ways to again, I
it's interesting if you ask me if I'm half full
or half empty person, I think with other people I'm
half full, and with myself I'm half empty. And I
think that says something just in terms of you know,
(06:56):
what your expectations are again, yeah, just going back. I
mean it was just something always that I really strive
to do and to really live my life that way.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
When you say you feel you're half empty, but to
the world you seem half full, can you break that down?
What do you mean? Sure?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I mean to half full being more optimistic, you know,
And I think you always have to keep up that
demeanor and that projection because you always want people to
feel up and you want to try and motivate them.
And for me, I guess the motivation was I am
very much you know, you take this personality test, I
(07:33):
am very much a person that has fear of failure.
And it's not a great thing. And I don't say
it with pride, it's more just factual. But that has
always driven me. So half empty means you're always just
shooting for more, right, and so you yeah, you're always
just shooting for more.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I love that never satisfied no matter how high of
the successes you have.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
You know, once in a while you can take a
day off.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Here you have a pat on the back, and then
you going exactly keep on trucking. Your start in moving
into baseball started with the internship with the Chicago White Sox.
It was working in baseball something you always wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
People always ask that of me, and the answer is no,
when I was you know, when I was a kid
growing up, I never knew that existed for women. You know,
there were no obviously no examples that long ago, and
so didn't really understand either what a general manager did.
I mean at that time, you know, you didn't see
general managers in the news too much, especially in New York.
(08:38):
It was more about the ownership George Steinberner. I grew
up a Yankees fan, so you didn't hear too much
about what a general manager did. But as I went
through college and I actually learned about Title nine, and
I did damn my senior paper on Title nine. I
learned about what opportunities there were for women in sports.
(08:58):
And I didn't even think about baseball at the time
because it just didn't necessarily make all that much sense
to me because you just you didn't see it, yeah, right,
So I was thinking more along the lines of tennis
or golf, because there were women, yeah, exactly playing tennis
and golf. And then after my senior year, after I graduated,
(09:21):
I got an internship with the Chicago White Sox and
that's how that all started.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
From the internship to moving up the ladder to making
history to being the first woman GM in Major League
Baseball history. When you think about climbing up the ladder,
what were some specific challenges that you had to overcome?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So the most obvious ones were when you walk into
a room you automatically not thought anything of because yeah,
I was a woman, and so you know, all attention
would be towards the guys. And I say it, it
sounds like a small thing, but it's meeting after meeting
(10:03):
after meeting every single day. Yeah, at there as a
certain point it becomes a bit of a drag. So
that was one that affected me every day.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
How did it affect you?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It just made me dig in more. But it also
I think, especially when you're young in your career, you're
not sure when to speak up. But it helped me
to speak up much quicker. And then you know, a
normal job might have you know, we use the term
now it's a daily term we use, which is ally.
It made me identify allies very early in my career
(10:37):
because you had to and you had to find people
who were open minded to give you a chance, and
there was no doubt in my mind that when I
was given a chance, I would prove my value and
prove my worth. But you know, it obviously takes time,
and it takes people to be open minded, and so
(11:01):
when you're a novelty, that's really very difficult for people
to overcome. So it's almost like you have to find
the people that are inherently open minded, and there aren't
very many of them, or there weren't very many of
them at the time. So I think those are the
two things that it really made me do is find
(11:22):
my voice early and find allies early.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
We'll be dropping more diamonds after these messages through the
process of finding your voice, because that is I feel
a struggle for women in all spaces, whether you're an athlete,
you're a GM you are just in your day to
(11:48):
day life. It can be tough to really speak out
in spaces where you don't feel like you will be heard.
How did you get to a place where you were
using your voice and making sure it was loud enough
to make sure every body heard what it is you
had to say.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I understand people feeling uncomfortable in those types of situations.
I also think you have to use you know, understand
what the confines of your personality are. And so maybe
when you're younger in your career, you're less experienced. I
always found that I would take people to the side
after a meeting, right, so that they can get to
(12:23):
know you a little bit one on one, and so
that they can hear you, and it doesn't seem quite
as overwhelming as in say you're in a meeting of
twenty people. You're not necessarily pounding the table young in
your career, right. There are little tips and tricks that
you use. I mean one of them that I do
(12:45):
a lot is you ask questions. So you're not, you know,
absolutely confronting somebody in front of a lot of people,
but you ask questions that make them double take, think
about what they've just said, or think about the policy,
or think about the particular topic in such a way
that makes them stop in their tracks or makes others
(13:06):
then start to question, right. And that's how you can
build a bit of a swell and make people understand
that there are different perspectives and different ways of looking
at topics, questions, issues.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So instead of saying that was an idiot response, so
do you believe that this would happen if that happens,
or what if there's.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
A change of event exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Can you think of one moment where you kind of
put the nail on the head, You're like, got them,
got them?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I can't think of one specifically right now, No, but
I will say we were in an arbitration hearing. One
of the interesting things about arbitration is that you deal
with a lot of statistics, and it's a way to
sort of paint a picture. I mean, you can you
can gear the statistics the way you want, or you
can accentuate points by framing it differently. And so we
(14:03):
had one example of I think the agent said something like,
you know, the era difference was only one point four,
and so we basically turned the one point four and
we said, so do you know that you know the
picture would have to throw fifty eight scoreless innings to
make up the one point four, right, So you just
frame it differently and that made everyone in the room
(14:26):
go whoa, okay, and you put it into context right.
And so again it's about I think constantly reframing and
making people understand different sides to an issue.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
We're thinking about reframing and making people understand different sides
to an issue, a perspective, or even a league. Because
we've ran down your resume, but now one of the
coolest ones you can add to it is you are
a senior advisor of the Athletes Unlimited Softball league. And
when you think about trying to add these new perspectives
(14:59):
and giving this different view for so many different people
who are softball fans or new softball fans are going
to become softball fans. What do you feel like is
the best approach to making sure we can continue to
grow softball and a He's limited.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, absolutely, sir. I think Athletes Unlimited has been very
innovative in the way that they've thought about the athletes
and the game. I think I lend to it my
career of thirty plus years of a very established system,
and so I think when you meld those two things together,
you can come up with a pretty interesting product. One
(15:37):
of the things that we have to understand is basically
learned from the past. There have been different iterations of
pro softball leagues and one of the things I really
appreciate about John Patrikov and Jonathan soros our co founders
is the way that they have understood the history of
pro softball, and they've really tried to avoid some of
(16:00):
the pitfalls that have plagued us in the past. So
I think when you when you talk about you know,
length and sustainability, I think, you know, one of the
things that you really want to make the players feel
is that they're a part of this. You want players
to feel like they're along in this journey. And so
you know, getting us out there and presenting us to
(16:23):
the world so that we draw in some of the
more mainstream audiences and we appeal to the softball world
and we galvanize the softball world to create this momentum.
When I look at where we are right now with
regards to women's professional sports, we are living in truly
an amazing moment. It's like one of those things where
(16:45):
you remember when Caitlin Clark was in the NCAA Finals,
and you remember like where you were watching her right
and just this swell of incredible enthusiasm, And you know,
I hear stories now where people are saying, yeah, my
ten year old son and I were watching WNBA game
(17:07):
on a Saturday night. Like I mean, for a lot
of us. I think that's really incredible, right that it
has become mainstream in this way, and we've been fighting
the fight for so long. I mean, so I can't
even include myself really in this because women's sports I'm
sort of on the periphery. But for all of you
(17:27):
that have been there and been doing this for a
long time, it's been amazing to just sort of see it.
And I don't want to say culminate, but to this point,
I guess culminate, but I think there's so much further
to go, but it's just been an incredible, incredible ride
so far.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Well, I definitely think you are included because when it
comes down to women in sports, I firmly believe that
when one beer is broken by a woman in sport,
it leads to all these other doors waiting to be
broken down. You now see so many women coaching and
major League based all you have been a spearhead for that.
You see women coaching in all different sports, especially in
(18:05):
male and so I believe that that's only continued to
lead to the trajectory of the respect, to the recognition
and the growth of women's sports as a whole. So
I know you like to just keep going back. This
is another moment to give yourself a little pound the back
and then and then we'll keep it before. But you
definitely deserve that.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well, I would say in baseball for sure. I mean
just seeing the women that have become scouts, that have
become minor league coaches. We have one at the major
league level. Eve Rosenbaum's an assistant general manager with the Orioles.
Has just been fun for me to watch, for sure.
I'll give you an example. When I first started with
(18:42):
the Marlins, I had one of our people in the
analytics department say, when we advertised for the analytics internship,
we had three women apply out of three hundred, he said,
and we had to convinced two of them to apply,
he said. But then fast forward a year after I
(19:05):
had been with the Marlins for a year, he said,
that went up tenfold. So just that old adage, you know,
if you can see it, you can be it, right,
and I mean you take the imagination part out of it, right,
and it's a reality. Once they saw that, you know,
there was someone at the top of the pyramid, they said, sure,
(19:27):
why can't that be me? If you're young and you're
starting out in your career. Why would you go into
an industry where you feel like you're stunted? So I think, yeah,
seeing you know, woman be a major league coach is
phenomenal for all these youngsters in the stands. She coached
first base, I think last year. And you know, I
(19:49):
can't even imagine, you know, being a five year old
girl and seeing a woman coaching first base, right, how
cool would that be?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So and you keep pushing once you see someone there
that your goals get higher and your dreams get larger
the more women you see in these spaces where you
haven't seen women before. And we talked about the see it,
to believe it, to achieve it. I remember vividly doing
my thesis project in grad school and I went to
(20:17):
a park, and my whole point was that women's sports
they just don't get the attention that they deserve. So
I went to a softball baseball park, and I went
and asked eight young baseball players what they want to
be when they grow up. Every single one of them
said a major league baseball player or a major league
baseball coach. And then I went to then eight young
(20:38):
softball players, asked them what they want to do when
they grew up, and all of them except one said
a teacher or a doctor or none of them had
visions of being professional softball players. One little girl said, well,
I wanted to be a professional softball player, but I
don't know if it's possible, And that was I mean,
(20:59):
I always knew the differences, but when you have those
kind of conversations, it was just such a stark reality.
And then when you talk about, oh, I'm professional softball player,
there's so many people say, oh, that exists. And now
when you talk about pro softball, they say, oh, athletes Unlimited.
And I think that the change in the shift has
been so amazing to see and so exciting when you
(21:21):
talk about the growth of softball and to see it
to believe it. And when you think about when you're
here without with Athletes Unlimits Softball League and the growth,
what do you feel or envision the twenty twenty five
season to look like in the future of Athletes Unlimited
softball as a whole.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
In terms of twenty twenty five, and we were going
to ten to twelve different markets. We actually just announced
our schedule today and I'm expecting to see the stands
filled with softball fans and even those new to softball
and those who understand that women's sports right now is
in a movement. So that's what I see for twenty
(21:57):
twenty five and then going forward. And so we're starting
with four teams in twenty twenty five, We'll expand to
six in twenty six, and from there we are positioning
ourselves as the Major League Baseball of softball. I mean,
that's what this looks like.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Will we ever get to thirty teams? I don't know
about that, but certainly see twelve in our future, not
too distant future. And I see us really continuing the
trajectory of college softball. I mean, that's really what this is,
you know. And the I mean, we can talk about
the popularity of college softball and how it's increased so
(22:35):
much over the last fifteen to twenty years, a lot,
you know, due to the ESPN and you know, putting
it on TV. And I mean ESPN was one of
the first believers in softball years ago, right, but just
giving access an opportunity, we've seen the game grow so much.
I mean there are statistics out there where we routinely
and when I say we have the women's College World
(22:58):
Series routinely out duels the men you know in terms
of viewership. So from the attendance going up that we've
seen over the last fifteen years in Oklahoma to viewership,
the time is now and this is really again just
an extension, just a continuation of what we've seen at
the college level.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
The time is now.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
The time is now a janvement, not a moment.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
There's more to cover, but first, let's take a quick
break throughout your career and your knowledge of building great franchises,
of building great organizations. How do you envision being able
(23:47):
to build those thirty teams? You know?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
It starts with a good foundation, right, and it starts
with the players, you know. And so I think I
think one of the things that we really pride ourselves
on is that we have the world's best players in
this league. I don't know the exact count, but I
want to say it's over fourteen past Olympians and future
Olympians and some we're going to see in twenty eight
(24:13):
for sure that have not been in the Olympics before.
But we have, you know, the world's best talent. I
think that is a big, big thing for us, and
I think that you know, when we talk about crowds
and and you know, people understanding who we are and
the caliber of the talent says it all. And you know,
you pose that as like, these are the people that
(24:33):
you're going to see in twenty twenty eight, and we
are building up to that. I think that says a
lot for the for this league. My first weekend on
the job, I went to Wichita State where we were playing,
and I saw Chris Sebrin, who's the chief development officer
for USA Softball, and we've known each other for a
(24:54):
number of years, and I said, how many athletes do
you have here? He said about you know, I started
counting and he said about twenty. I think that right
there tells you all you need to know about the
caliber of the talent, right It's world class. And so
I think that is huge for us, you know, in
terms of building this again clearly the athletes are you know,
(25:17):
the number one and then number two again, you know,
going back on what we talked about making people understand
who we are, and this is again drawing in that
already built softball community. And then after that you then
go out to the mainstream, right and trying to ride
that women's pro sports movement. What's interesting when I've talked
(25:41):
to fans who are really into women's pro sports, it
crosses sports. I don't know if you've noticed that, but
I mean it really is interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
So if you're a you know, men's football fan, that's
pretty much. But you see, you know, women's basketball, then
they want to put it off for women's softball, you know.
So it's pretty interesting women's hockey, you know, obviously. So yeah,
it's interesting the way that works.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
As you talked to Rose Level the other day and
she said, she wants to make sure you guys send
her the schedule because she wants to be at all
the games. So just giving a quick shout out to
Roads and just let you all notes the game. Yeah,
Soccer Crossover. We're gonna go in to my favorite segment,
which is the no fly zone segment, because you know,
we always turn every part, typically the outfield to no
(26:31):
fly zone, but everybody can turn the field to no
fly zone, and you Kim, you are keeping self doubt
out of the air spaces for all women, we're out
there achieving our goals and do what we need to do.
And so for you though, when you think about going
through success, building confidence, maintaining that confidence. We all know
(26:52):
in softball it is a sport of failure and you
have to overcome certain failures in order to reach success
through your confidence buildings, through your success in baseball and
now moving into softball. What is your favorite failure that
ultimately led you to your best successes?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
My favorite failure? Gosh, I don't have favorites aj.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Or a feeling that you feel like really set you
up for the success you have today.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Let's see, I might have to take a time out
for this one.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
But she doesn't fail ladies and gentlemen, No I do.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I just tend to you know how you have that.
We talked about having a short memory. It's outs out there.
Let's see, I've had so many ag it's ridiculous. Okay,
let's talk about the dozens and dozens of times I
didn't become a general manager. Those are all republic too,
m hm. Right, your entire staff knows that you interviewed
(27:53):
and you didn't get the damn job. So I think
one of the things that I learned and it took
me a long time, right, it took me a long
time and a lot of interviews. I think the thing
that I learned, you're going through these interviews and in
a sense you're pouring, you know, your guts up on
the table. But I think I always should have reserved
(28:16):
a little bit. That's not my personality either, right, So
I think in this last interview with Derek Jeter, I
set my mind to it and said, like, this is
probably going to be the last time, you might as
well just go all in, like all in. And so
I had this whole thing set up, and you know,
(28:38):
it was during COVID, so we were on zoom and
at one point this actually kind of funny story. I'm
going to make it a funny story. I had in
my head said, Okay, you are going all in, just
lay it all out, and so I do. I'm watching
his face and he's starting to glaze over. He just
stopped me. After five minutes. Yeah, I'm telling him why
(29:02):
I was the person for the job, you know, again
all in And he just said, what hold on? And
I care what he said. I just want to know
if you want to become my general manager.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
You already had the job.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I already had the job. But I think it was
that mental space that you have to be in to
just say, you know what, screw it, I'm going right,
let's do this. So I'm not sure if I had
ever gotten to that point in previous interviews, but I
definitely got there on this one, and you know, turned
(29:39):
out pretty well. To me.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
It seems like the lesson in that is one thing
sticks in my mind. It's like, if you had twenty
no's before you finally got that yes, you would be
seeking out every no right after. You'd be counting it
down like, yes, I just got my thirteenth no, my fourteenth,
my fifteenth, exciting because you knew once you get to
the twentieth you would finally get reach out success. But
(30:03):
you never stopped. You kept going. You said seven seven interviews, how.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Many short term memory? I didn't count them, Okay, but
it was a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, the last one's only one that mattered, right, we
got the last one. But the fact that you kept
going though and then had the mind frame of I'm
going to give it all in this last one.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
You know what, here's the other thing. I felt like
I also had to keep going because I needed others
to see me keep going. Yeah, if I had just
sort of hung it up, I think that's a bad signal,
that's a bad symbol to the rest of you know,
(30:42):
the other young women out there. And so it was.
I mean, it was a trudge. It looks a lot,
but I did think it was really important and I
didn't want people to think that they should give up
at all, because it was something out there that that
was going to happen at some point. We just didn't
(31:04):
know when. But I thought, you know, I was the
closest one and you just had to keep I had to.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Keep going, to keep going and just do it.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Just do, just do it.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Kim. Thank you so much for joining me today and
really teaching us that as long as you keep going,
that yes is right around the corner. And I really
appreciate your time. Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Thank you AJ. You take care.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
From our affirmations. Make sure you remember to just do it.
That you are a queen, you are a dream, you
are who you want to be, and you are all
the things you see. So I'll meet you back here
next week on the diamond Till next time, keep shining.
(31:54):
Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Athletes Limited Softball League and Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. I'm your host, AJ Andrews. Our
executive producer is Jesse Katz. Tari Harrison is our supervising producer,
and this episode was mixed and mastered by Mary Do.
Listen to Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews on the iHeartRadio app,
(32:17):
Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Athletes, Unlimited Softball League and Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
I felt like I also had to keep going because
I needed others to see me keep going.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
All right, what's up, y'all? Welcome to Dropping Diamonds with
Me AJ Andrews, where we dive headfirst into the softball world.
This guest today I'm so excited to talk to because
she is a trailblazer. She has marked his free by
breaking barriers and continuously creating opportunities for all women in sports,
but specifically now it's going to be doing more in
(00:48):
the softball community. With a combined twenty one years in
the front offices of Chicago White Sox, New York Yankees,
and Los Angeles Dodgers, she has three World Series rings,
not on today, but three World Series rings. Before joining
the Marlins as the first woman general manager in North
American sports history, she spent nine years as a senior
(01:09):
vice president from Major League Baseball, kim ing, thank you
so much for joining.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Me today, AJ, how are you? Yes? With those World
Series rings, we could be dropping a lot of.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Diamonds dropping a lot of diamonds. Okay, well, next time
I'm with you, can you please have them on? So
I will do that, we can drop all of them.
How many diamonds do you think we'd drop with those rings?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Well, there was definitely one for each World Series they
had previously won, so there's at least seventy five.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, will we drop seventy five diamonds on this podcast today?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
I don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Okay, we only have let's stook for seventy two. Yeah,
we got it. So thinking of dropping diamonds, I loved to,
especially as athletes and being in the sports world, quotes
or sayings that really resonated through with us throughout time,
and one of my favorite ones is actually with you
as a guest today, I definitely wanted to make sure
I put it out there was no one can make
(02:04):
you feel inferior without your consent and throughout this with
an affirmation I want to bring out with that quote,
it's I'm a queen, I'm a dream, I do what
I want to do, I am who I want to be.
How do you feel that one can.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Check you out? I like that? God, I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
No, It's absolutely amazing, and it makes sense that you
are saying.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Thank you, thank you. What is a quota or saying
that you feel like has really resonated with you throughout
your career in sports?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Just do it, m you know, I'm like, yeah, man,
I understand, I understand. But that is something that came
out probably twenty five years ago when I was just
starting out my career, and it has always stuck with
me because that's always been my attitude, you know, just
put your nose to the grindstone and get it done,
you know, being a woman in professional sports. Yeah, that's
(02:58):
a lot of what I've had to do is particularly
being one of the only women in men's professional sports,
and you know, there's just been a lot of obstacles
and hurdles that we've had to overcome. But in the end,
all you have to do is just do it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I feel when you hear the words just do it, it
simplifies all of the thought process that could come along,
the overthinking, the self doubt. For you, in the moment
when you kind of came to the realization of I'm
going to just do it, when did you realize that
was a saying that you wanted to really live by.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I can't say it was every single day, but it
made me. I mean, but that's sort of the reality
of it, you know, for us, you know, when we
were the only ones trying to pave that path, you know,
and there were not very many examples period, and so
everything that was in your face where you weren't sure,
you just go back to the simplicity. Don't think too
(03:52):
much about what's going on around you. You know, you
have the ability, you know, you're prepared, You've done your work,
and now it's just about getting it done. So that's
really It's been the one that has resonated throughout my
career for sure.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Just to it. It reminds me thinking our coach told
me when I was first playing softball, you can't think
and hit at the same time. So if you're trying
to get a hey, you just gotta get up and go.
You can't think and hit. And you also played softball,
starting your long career of excellence and bat and ball
sports playing at the University of Chicago middle infielder.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Right, yeah, the corners too.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, don't get that third. Yes, gosh, I feel like
you have to be a baby literally.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Well, I look at third I look at the athletes now,
and god, I was an idiot. I was doing that.
I mean, you're just so close to the ball and
all comes, you know, just at you pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Did you always have that mentality of just do it?
Did you have that when you're in college as well?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I did? Yeah, I did, And I was known for
stuff like that. I was a little bit crazier. I mean,
I think I keep the crazy tamp down pretty well.
You can't really tell sometimes, yeah, sometimes don't piss me off. Yeah,
but now, it was always that mentality, probably from I
think I was a pretty tough kid. I grew up
in some difficult circumstances, and so you know, that was
(05:11):
just the mentality we had to have.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
What do you feel like is your biggest takeaway from
playing collegiate softball really throughout? I'm sure do you play
Little league as well? Prior to that?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
So I did from the time I was like twelve on.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Okay. Yeah, when you think back to your softball career,
what do you feel like you learn the most that
you still utilize today. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I feel like the discipline was probably the most important thing.
I think the discipline and the willingness to do repetitions, right, Like,
I never really got bored of it, and so I
think that's the one thing about my personality and my
character is that you just keep grinding at it until
you I mean, perfection is not something we really achieve,
(05:57):
but until you get it to a satisfactory level. Let's
say that, right, and not a good one. Yeah, I've yeah, exactly.
That was always part of my personalities, just the repetitions
and the willingness to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I think when you have that willingness, you know, it
never really leaves you. I mean you always know what
hard work is. And that is something that is really
the foundation of my career.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
That determination, the discipline, and the willingness to succeed even
throughout failures and a lot of trial and error. How
did you view overcoming failure?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, you define success and failure by your own standards, Yeah, right, Like,
I mean, there's just so many ways to again, I
it's interesting if you ask me if I'm half full
or half empty person, I think with other people I'm
half full, and with myself I'm half empty. And I
think that says something just in terms of you know,
(06:56):
what your expectations are again, yeah, just going back. I
mean it was just something always that I really strive
to do and to really live my life that way.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
When you say you feel you're half empty, but to
the world you seem half full, can you break that down?
What do you mean? Sure?
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I mean to half full being more optimistic, you know,
And I think you always have to keep up that
demeanor and that projection because you always want people to
feel up and you want to try and motivate them.
And for me, I guess the motivation was I am
very much you know, you take this personality test, I
(07:33):
am very much a person that has fear of failure.
And it's not a great thing. And I don't say
it with pride, it's more just factual. But that has
always driven me. So half empty means you're always just
shooting for more, right, and so you yeah, you're always
just shooting for more.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
I love that never satisfied no matter how high of
the successes you have.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
You know, once in a while you can take a
day off.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Here you have a pat on the back, and then
you going exactly keep on trucking. Your start in moving
into baseball started with the internship with the Chicago White Sox.
It was working in baseball something you always wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
People always ask that of me, and the answer is no,
when I was you know, when I was a kid
growing up, I never knew that existed for women. You know,
there were no obviously no examples that long ago, and
so didn't really understand either what a general manager did.
I mean at that time, you know, you didn't see
general managers in the news too much, especially in New York.
(08:38):
It was more about the ownership George Steinberner. I grew
up a Yankees fan, so you didn't hear too much
about what a general manager did. But as I went
through college and I actually learned about Title nine, and
I did damn my senior paper on Title nine. I
learned about what opportunities there were for women in sports.
(08:58):
And I didn't even think about baseball at the time
because it just didn't necessarily make all that much sense
to me because you just you didn't see it, yeah, right,
So I was thinking more along the lines of tennis
or golf, because there were women, yeah, exactly playing tennis
and golf. And then after my senior year, after I graduated,
(09:21):
I got an internship with the Chicago White Sox and
that's how that all started.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
From the internship to moving up the ladder to making
history to being the first woman GM in Major League
Baseball history. When you think about climbing up the ladder,
what were some specific challenges that you had to overcome?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So the most obvious ones were when you walk into
a room you automatically not thought anything of because yeah,
I was a woman, and so you know, all attention
would be towards the guys. And I say it, it
sounds like a small thing, but it's meeting after meeting
(10:03):
after meeting every single day. Yeah, at there as a
certain point it becomes a bit of a drag. So
that was one that affected me every day.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
How did it affect you?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
It just made me dig in more. But it also
I think, especially when you're young in your career, you're
not sure when to speak up. But it helped me
to speak up much quicker. And then you know, a
normal job might have you know, we use the term
now it's a daily term we use, which is ally.
It made me identify allies very early in my career
(10:37):
because you had to and you had to find people
who were open minded to give you a chance, and
there was no doubt in my mind that when I
was given a chance, I would prove my value and
prove my worth. But you know, it obviously takes time,
and it takes people to be open minded, and so
(11:01):
when you're a novelty, that's really very difficult for people
to overcome. So it's almost like you have to find
the people that are inherently open minded, and there aren't
very many of them, or there weren't very many of
them at the time. So I think those are the
two things that it really made me do is find
(11:22):
my voice early and find allies early.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
We'll be dropping more diamonds after these messages through the
process of finding your voice, because that is I feel
a struggle for women in all spaces, whether you're an athlete,
you're a GM you are just in your day to
(11:48):
day life. It can be tough to really speak out
in spaces where you don't feel like you will be heard.
How did you get to a place where you were
using your voice and making sure it was loud enough
to make sure every body heard what it is you
had to say.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I understand people feeling uncomfortable in those types of situations.
I also think you have to use you know, understand
what the confines of your personality are. And so maybe
when you're younger in your career, you're less experienced. I
always found that I would take people to the side
after a meeting, right, so that they can get to
(12:23):
know you a little bit one on one, and so
that they can hear you, and it doesn't seem quite
as overwhelming as in say you're in a meeting of
twenty people. You're not necessarily pounding the table young in
your career, right. There are little tips and tricks that
you use. I mean one of them that I do
(12:45):
a lot is you ask questions. So you're not, you know,
absolutely confronting somebody in front of a lot of people,
but you ask questions that make them double take, think
about what they've just said, or think about the policy,
or think about the particular topic in such a way
that makes them stop in their tracks or makes others
(13:06):
then start to question, right. And that's how you can
build a bit of a swell and make people understand
that there are different perspectives and different ways of looking
at topics, questions, issues.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So instead of saying that was an idiot response, so
do you believe that this would happen if that happens,
or what if there's.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
A change of event exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Can you think of one moment where you kind of
put the nail on the head, You're like, got them,
got them?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I can't think of one specifically right now, No, but
I will say we were in an arbitration hearing. One
of the interesting things about arbitration is that you deal
with a lot of statistics, and it's a way to
sort of paint a picture. I mean, you can you
can gear the statistics the way you want, or you
can accentuate points by framing it differently. And so we
(14:03):
had one example of I think the agent said something like,
you know, the era difference was only one point four,
and so we basically turned the one point four and
we said, so do you know that you know the
picture would have to throw fifty eight scoreless innings to
make up the one point four, right, So you just
frame it differently and that made everyone in the room
(14:26):
go whoa, okay, and you put it into context right.
And so again it's about I think constantly reframing and
making people understand different sides to an issue.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
We're thinking about reframing and making people understand different sides
to an issue, a perspective, or even a league. Because
we've ran down your resume, but now one of the
coolest ones you can add to it is you are
a senior advisor of the Athletes Unlimited Softball league. And
when you think about trying to add these new perspectives
(14:59):
and giving this different view for so many different people
who are softball fans or new softball fans are going
to become softball fans. What do you feel like is
the best approach to making sure we can continue to
grow softball and a He's limited.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, absolutely, sir. I think Athletes Unlimited has been very
innovative in the way that they've thought about the athletes
and the game. I think I lend to it my
career of thirty plus years of a very established system,
and so I think when you meld those two things together,
you can come up with a pretty interesting product. One
(15:37):
of the things that we have to understand is basically
learned from the past. There have been different iterations of
pro softball leagues and one of the things I really
appreciate about John Patrikov and Jonathan soros our co founders
is the way that they have understood the history of
pro softball, and they've really tried to avoid some of
(16:00):
the pitfalls that have plagued us in the past. So
I think when you when you talk about you know,
length and sustainability, I think, you know, one of the
things that you really want to make the players feel
is that they're a part of this. You want players
to feel like they're along in this journey. And so
you know, getting us out there and presenting us to
(16:23):
the world so that we draw in some of the
more mainstream audiences and we appeal to the softball world
and we galvanize the softball world to create this momentum.
When I look at where we are right now with
regards to women's professional sports, we are living in truly
an amazing moment. It's like one of those things where
(16:45):
you remember when Caitlin Clark was in the NCAA Finals,
and you remember like where you were watching her right
and just this swell of incredible enthusiasm, And you know,
I hear stories now where people are saying, yeah, my
ten year old son and I were watching WNBA game
(17:07):
on a Saturday night. Like I mean, for a lot
of us. I think that's really incredible, right that it
has become mainstream in this way, and we've been fighting
the fight for so long. I mean, so I can't
even include myself really in this because women's sports I'm
sort of on the periphery. But for all of you
(17:27):
that have been there and been doing this for a
long time, it's been amazing to just sort of see it.
And I don't want to say culminate, but to this point,
I guess culminate, but I think there's so much further
to go, but it's just been an incredible, incredible ride
so far.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Well, I definitely think you are included because when it
comes down to women in sports, I firmly believe that
when one beer is broken by a woman in sport,
it leads to all these other doors waiting to be
broken down. You now see so many women coaching and
major League based all you have been a spearhead for that.
You see women coaching in all different sports, especially in
(18:05):
male and so I believe that that's only continued to
lead to the trajectory of the respect, to the recognition
and the growth of women's sports as a whole. So
I know you like to just keep going back. This
is another moment to give yourself a little pound the back
and then and then we'll keep it before. But you
definitely deserve that.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well, I would say in baseball for sure. I mean
just seeing the women that have become scouts, that have
become minor league coaches. We have one at the major
league level. Eve Rosenbaum's an assistant general manager with the Orioles.
Has just been fun for me to watch, for sure.
I'll give you an example. When I first started with
(18:42):
the Marlins, I had one of our people in the
analytics department say, when we advertised for the analytics internship,
we had three women apply out of three hundred, he said,
and we had to convinced two of them to apply,
he said. But then fast forward a year after I
(19:05):
had been with the Marlins for a year, he said,
that went up tenfold. So just that old adage, you know,
if you can see it, you can be it, right,
and I mean you take the imagination part out of it, right,
and it's a reality. Once they saw that, you know,
there was someone at the top of the pyramid, they said, sure,
(19:27):
why can't that be me? If you're young and you're
starting out in your career. Why would you go into
an industry where you feel like you're stunted? So I think, yeah,
seeing you know, woman be a major league coach is
phenomenal for all these youngsters in the stands. She coached
first base, I think last year. And you know, I
(19:49):
can't even imagine, you know, being a five year old
girl and seeing a woman coaching first base, right, how
cool would that be?
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So and you keep pushing once you see someone there
that your goals get higher and your dreams get larger
the more women you see in these spaces where you
haven't seen women before. And we talked about the see it,
to believe it, to achieve it. I remember vividly doing
my thesis project in grad school and I went to
(20:17):
a park, and my whole point was that women's sports
they just don't get the attention that they deserve. So
I went to a softball baseball park, and I went
and asked eight young baseball players what they want to
be when they grow up. Every single one of them
said a major league baseball player or a major league
baseball coach. And then I went to then eight young
(20:38):
softball players, asked them what they want to do when
they grew up, and all of them except one said
a teacher or a doctor or none of them had
visions of being professional softball players. One little girl said, well,
I wanted to be a professional softball player, but I
don't know if it's possible, And that was I mean,
(20:59):
I always knew the differences, but when you have those
kind of conversations, it was just such a stark reality.
And then when you talk about, oh, I'm professional softball player,
there's so many people say, oh, that exists. And now
when you talk about pro softball, they say, oh, athletes Unlimited.
And I think that the change in the shift has
been so amazing to see and so exciting when you
(21:21):
talk about the growth of softball and to see it
to believe it. And when you think about when you're
here without with Athletes Unlimits Softball League and the growth,
what do you feel or envision the twenty twenty five
season to look like in the future of Athletes Unlimited
softball as a whole.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
In terms of twenty twenty five, and we were going
to ten to twelve different markets. We actually just announced
our schedule today and I'm expecting to see the stands
filled with softball fans and even those new to softball
and those who understand that women's sports right now is
in a movement. So that's what I see for twenty
(21:57):
twenty five and then going forward. And so we're starting
with four teams in twenty twenty five, We'll expand to
six in twenty six, and from there we are positioning
ourselves as the Major League Baseball of softball. I mean,
that's what this looks like.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Will we ever get to thirty teams? I don't know
about that, but certainly see twelve in our future, not
too distant future. And I see us really continuing the
trajectory of college softball. I mean, that's really what this is,
you know. And the I mean, we can talk about
the popularity of college softball and how it's increased so
(22:35):
much over the last fifteen to twenty years, a lot,
you know, due to the ESPN and you know, putting
it on TV. And I mean ESPN was one of
the first believers in softball years ago, right, but just
giving access an opportunity, we've seen the game grow so much.
I mean there are statistics out there where we routinely
and when I say we have the women's College World
(22:58):
Series routinely out duels the men you know in terms
of viewership. So from the attendance going up that we've
seen over the last fifteen years in Oklahoma to viewership,
the time is now and this is really again just
an extension, just a continuation of what we've seen at
the college level.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
The time is now.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
The time is now a janvement, not a moment.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
There's more to cover, but first, let's take a quick
break throughout your career and your knowledge of building great franchises,
of building great organizations. How do you envision being able
(23:47):
to build those thirty teams? You know?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
It starts with a good foundation, right, and it starts
with the players, you know. And so I think I
think one of the things that we really pride ourselves
on is that we have the world's best players in
this league. I don't know the exact count, but I
want to say it's over fourteen past Olympians and future
Olympians and some we're going to see in twenty eight
(24:13):
for sure that have not been in the Olympics before.
But we have, you know, the world's best talent. I
think that is a big, big thing for us, and
I think that you know, when we talk about crowds
and and you know, people understanding who we are and
the caliber of the talent says it all. And you know,
you pose that as like, these are the people that
(24:33):
you're going to see in twenty twenty eight, and we
are building up to that. I think that says a
lot for the for this league. My first weekend on
the job, I went to Wichita State where we were playing,
and I saw Chris Sebrin, who's the chief development officer
for USA Softball, and we've known each other for a
(24:54):
number of years, and I said, how many athletes do
you have here? He said about you know, I started
counting and he said about twenty. I think that right
there tells you all you need to know about the
caliber of the talent, right It's world class. And so
I think that is huge for us, you know, in
terms of building this again clearly the athletes are you know,
(25:17):
the number one and then number two again, you know,
going back on what we talked about making people understand
who we are, and this is again drawing in that
already built softball community. And then after that you then
go out to the mainstream, right and trying to ride
that women's pro sports movement. What's interesting when I've talked
(25:41):
to fans who are really into women's pro sports, it
crosses sports. I don't know if you've noticed that, but
I mean it really is interesting.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
So if you're a you know, men's football fan, that's
pretty much. But you see, you know, women's basketball, then
they want to put it off for women's softball, you know.
So it's pretty interesting women's hockey, you know, obviously. So yeah,
it's interesting the way that works.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
As you talked to Rose Level the other day and
she said, she wants to make sure you guys send
her the schedule because she wants to be at all
the games. So just giving a quick shout out to
Roads and just let you all notes the game. Yeah,
Soccer Crossover. We're gonna go in to my favorite segment,
which is the no fly zone segment, because you know,
we always turn every part, typically the outfield to no
(26:31):
fly zone, but everybody can turn the field to no
fly zone, and you Kim, you are keeping self doubt
out of the air spaces for all women, we're out
there achieving our goals and do what we need to do.
And so for you though, when you think about going
through success, building confidence, maintaining that confidence. We all know
(26:52):
in softball it is a sport of failure and you
have to overcome certain failures in order to reach success
through your confidence buildings, through your success in baseball and
now moving into softball. What is your favorite failure that
ultimately led you to your best successes?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
My favorite failure? Gosh, I don't have favorites aj.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Or a feeling that you feel like really set you
up for the success you have today.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Let's see, I might have to take a time out
for this one.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
But she doesn't fail ladies and gentlemen, No I do.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
I just tend to you know how you have that.
We talked about having a short memory. It's outs out there.
Let's see, I've had so many ag it's ridiculous. Okay,
let's talk about the dozens and dozens of times I
didn't become a general manager. Those are all republic too,
m hm. Right, your entire staff knows that you interviewed
(27:53):
and you didn't get the damn job. So I think
one of the things that I learned and it took
me a long time, right, it took me a long
time and a lot of interviews. I think the thing
that I learned, you're going through these interviews and in
a sense you're pouring, you know, your guts up on
the table. But I think I always should have reserved
(28:16):
a little bit. That's not my personality either, right, So
I think in this last interview with Derek Jeter, I
set my mind to it and said, like, this is
probably going to be the last time, you might as
well just go all in, like all in. And so
I had this whole thing set up, and you know,
(28:38):
it was during COVID, so we were on zoom and
at one point this actually kind of funny story. I'm
going to make it a funny story. I had in
my head said, Okay, you are going all in, just
lay it all out, and so I do. I'm watching
his face and he's starting to glaze over. He just
stopped me. After five minutes. Yeah, I'm telling him why
(29:02):
I was the person for the job, you know, again
all in And he just said, what hold on? And
I care what he said. I just want to know
if you want to become my general manager.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
You already had the job.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I already had the job. But I think it was
that mental space that you have to be in to
just say, you know what, screw it, I'm going right,
let's do this. So I'm not sure if I had
ever gotten to that point in previous interviews, but I
definitely got there on this one, and you know, turned
(29:39):
out pretty well. To me.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
It seems like the lesson in that is one thing
sticks in my mind. It's like, if you had twenty
no's before you finally got that yes, you would be
seeking out every no right after. You'd be counting it
down like, yes, I just got my thirteenth no, my fourteenth,
my fifteenth, exciting because you knew once you get to
the twentieth you would finally get reach out success. But
(30:03):
you never stopped. You kept going. You said seven seven interviews, how.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Many short term memory? I didn't count them, Okay, but
it was a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, the last one's only one that mattered, right, we
got the last one. But the fact that you kept
going though and then had the mind frame of I'm
going to give it all in this last one.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
You know what, here's the other thing. I felt like
I also had to keep going because I needed others
to see me keep going. Yeah, if I had just
sort of hung it up, I think that's a bad signal,
that's a bad symbol to the rest of you know,
(30:42):
the other young women out there. And so it was.
I mean, it was a trudge. It looks a lot,
but I did think it was really important and I
didn't want people to think that they should give up
at all, because it was something out there that that
was going to happen at some point. We just didn't
(31:04):
know when. But I thought, you know, I was the
closest one and you just had to keep I had to.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Keep going, to keep going and just do it.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Just do, just do it.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Kim. Thank you so much for joining me today and
really teaching us that as long as you keep going,
that yes is right around the corner. And I really
appreciate your time. Thank you for coming.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Thank you AJ. You take care.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
From our affirmations. Make sure you remember to just do it.
That you are a queen, you are a dream, you
are who you want to be, and you are all
the things you see. So I'll meet you back here
next week on the diamond Till next time, keep shining.
(31:54):
Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an iHeart women's sports
production in partnership with Athletes Limited Softball League and Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. I'm your host, AJ Andrews. Our
executive producer is Jesse Katz. Tari Harrison is our supervising producer,
and this episode was mixed and mastered by Mary Do.
Listen to Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews on the iHeartRadio app,
(32:17):
Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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