REPLAY - CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD - Cheese Toast & Tea

On this week's episode of Eating While Broke, Coline sits down with the legendary Charlamagne Tha God for a candid conversation about his remarkable journey from unpaid radio intern to multimedia powerhouse.
With his signature wit and no-holds-barred honesty, Charlamagne opens up about the triumphs, challenges, and valuable lessons he's learned throughout his 30-year career in broadcasting. They cover everything from the importance of authenticity in the age of social media to criminal justice reform and the unexpected benefits of tree-hugging.
The mogul shares his powerful wisdom about using your platform to create opportunities for others. As he puts it, "If whatever you're building only benefits you, it's not big enough." 
Enjoy this hilarious, inspiring, and thought-provoking conversation with one of the industry's most influential voices. 

Connect: @wittcoline  @cthagod

Share your recipes with us: @EATINGWHILEBROKE 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke.
I'm your host, Colleen Witt, and today we have very
special guests Charlemagne the God in the building.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Y'ao, Queen wit, what's happening?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
What's going on? How do you feel?

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Charlemagne the God also known as hip Hop's Howard Starn really,
best selling author of books Black Privilege, Shook One, and
most recently, Get Honest or Die Lion Why Small Talk Sucks.
In addition to all these accolades, you have invested close
to thirty years in the radio broadcasting industry. You're the
founder of the Black Effect podcast network.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Where you can listen to Eating While Broke, where you.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Can which you yourself is literally the only reason why
we were able to do this interview. In addition to
all that, you are the creative of Black Privilege Publishing.
I read this quote. I was hanging out in my
dad's apartment. He had this quote on the wall and
I took it. And the whole irony in this quote
is that he actually took it from me. But I
read this quote and I thought of you. Excellence is

(01:17):
never an accident. It is always a result of high intention,
sincere effort, intelligent direction, skillful execution, and the vision to
see obstacles as opportunities. Now I thought of you because
just reading all your books, I was like, personally and professionally,
it seems like that has been your journey. Absolutely, absolutely,

(01:38):
So I gotta ask, what is the broke dish that
you would have had us eating in my studio?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
If I really don't know. I was racking my brain
when they kept telling me, and I watched the show
and I'm like, they kept you know, you got to
have a broke dish, and I'm like, I didn't really
have a broke dish coming up. And the reason I
say that is because even though we were poor, I
didn't realize we were poor until I got older, because

(02:05):
you know, I grew up in Monks Corner, South Carolina,
and you know, when you grow up in a ruined
area like that, like everybody is pretty much doing the same, Like,
you know, you might have a couple of individuals who
got a house that's better than yours, but for the
most part, people were growing up in double wide trailers
and we're growing up in you know, like small subvern
homes like my grandma used to have. But the one
thing that we always had was food in funny food,

(02:31):
funny and family.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Literally you know.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
So it's like the things that people would call broke
meals or the things that I still love now.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Like I love grits and eggs.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
You give me some scrambled eggs with some grits and butter,
I'm good. Like my grandma used to make this. She
used to make cheese toasts. So she would just take
the toast. My mouth started water and thinking about it.
She would just take the toast and like you know,
put the butter on the center and then put a
slice of cheese and literally warm that up.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
And I would drink that with a cup of tea.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
And now that I think about it, I'm like, oh,
that was like the meals that they were giving us
because that's what they could afford to give us, like
even you know, but it was amazing that it still
tasted good. Like it don't make me feel like something.
It's something that I still enjoy now. Yeah, you know,
so to me, that's not It might be a broke dish,
but I still love it.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
I love hearing guests say that they were broke but
they didn't realize they were broke. But in those types
of cities, what I did notice is that, yeah, everyone
looked the same. But what differentiated kids from knowing whether
they were broke was at least I don't know, we're
close in age, but it was the like kicks, like
were you going to school with the cool kicks or something?
So or nah?

Speaker 2 (03:40):
I had none of those. My dad. I remember, I
wanted they used to be these boots called high tech boots,
and my dad they saw the bootleg version that paid us,
and I wanted them so bad that I'm like, y'all
get the bootleg version that pay less.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
And they didn't. The kids didn't noticing me.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, no, I woke up one morning and my dad
had the high tech sitting by my bed. I was like, oh, shoot,
you know what I mean? So I actually had the
real you know, all black high texts, you know, So
I didn't have like the Jordans and all of that
stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
I don't I don't even what kind of sneakers did
I have back then.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
But I'm saying in that environment, that wasn't the thing
that differentiated a poor kid from it because in those environments,
everyone's technically in the same economic structure. But I remember
growing up in upstate New York where even though we
were all kind of in the same category, there were
some kids that would go to school wearing Jordan's or Nikes,
and then they would look at the kids and say,

(04:32):
we're payless and be like, okay, you're poor. And that's
how as a child you knew you were poor.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
But the people who had the Jordans and stuff when
I was growing up with the drug dealers for the
most part, you know, I mean, either the drug dealers
are like the football players because you know, people in
their minds like all these people are going places, so
you know, let me throw them some shoes or something
like that. But for the most part, the drug dealers
had to fly kicks that I remember, you know, growing up.

(04:56):
I don't even remember what I didn't. I'm trying to
sit in and try, like what did that wear back then?
Sneak awise, I had some converse because you know, Snoop
Dogg came out in like ninety two ninety three, so
we had the converse all stars. You know, That's all
I can really think of.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
So take me back to the cheese toast, which, by
the way, I did have On the show, someone had
did it with sugar and that was impressed.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Mine was straight cheese toast to butter with a slice
of cheese, cup of tea. That's what my grandmother would
give us. And I can even still right now think
about that, that feeling of having that, like it was
just an amazing meal. I can't remember that. That wasn't
even breakfast. That might have just been like, yo, you
just got home from school. You might get some cheese
toast with a cup of tea, you know, definitely, like

(05:40):
I said, gritch and eggs for breakfast.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
And you keep referencing your grandma's house. Is there a
reason because did you stay with her?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
No? Well, when I was young, my mother, my mother
was a school teacher, you know, and my grandmother was
a lunch lady. Right, so you know, I grew up
in the air when you was in fifth grade, you know,
you get, I get I could get dropped off a
my grandma house and wait there till the adults come.
And you know, I would never dare do that with
my kids now, but you know, just back then, life

(06:10):
was different. So I would literally wait till my mom
came home from school. So I spent so much time,
you know, at my grandmother's house, Like, so, yeah, I
spent a lot.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Of time over there, okay, And then take me through
to at least fast forward to like your first walk
of I want to get into entertainment or in that direction.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
My grandmother's house, sitting outside while they were waiting waiting
for my mom and my grandma to get home. And like,
when I was young, it used to seem like it
was this huge field between my grandmother's house and my
cousin Gloria's house. But the field really isn't that big now,
But when I was younger, I used to feel like
it was really big, and I would just be out
there acting like I was performing, Like I literally would

(06:52):
be facing the field, acting like that field was full
of full of people, and I would be either be
acting like I was, you know, at a certain point
doing rock and roll. At certain points, I was just
giving like speeches, and then like you know, as I
started to getting hip hop, I started to act like I
was rapping to a crowd. So that was my first Uh,
I guess that's when the bug kind of hit me,

(07:13):
Like y'all want to entertain in some way shape or form.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Did you see or hear it somewhere and then it
like touched you? Was it like maybe per Like I
remember when I was a kid, I would see Michael
Jackson performing. People pass out and I'll be like, oh
my god, like that's incredible. Was there something like that
that touched you to get you out into that field?

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Nah? I just think that. You know, my dad used
to play music a lot, and you know, there was
always albums lying around, so you would just see those
people and they used to look they used to look cool,
you know. I used to I'm a big cartoon guy
to this day. So I used to like watch a
lot of ThunderCats and.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Oh my god, the Thundercat.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Thundercast, and it was there was a spin off of
the ThunderCats. I think it was the silver Fish or
something like that. Maybe I'm bugging, but I remember, or
maybe it was or maybe it was something with birds,
you know, the cats. The ThunderCats were cats, but then
it was there was a spin off show that was
either Birds of Fish. I don't remember which one it was,
but I remember like I would have this imagination that
I was you know, it's gonna sound crazy, but I

(08:11):
was an animal like figure, and I had a band
behind me that was all those animal humanoids and we
were like this group. And I don't know why I
would go out in the yard and perform as this
group all the time.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
So imagination at its best, that's.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
That's all it was. So it's like, yeah, so then what.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Was that big next big milestone? After you know you're performing,
you kind of have this like love affair with performing.
What was that next big milestone or pivotal moment where
you said maybe I should actually push a button and
take it a step further.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Well, for radio, it started with me getting an internship.
That's why I think internships are so important. And I
got an internship when I was eighteen years old in Charleston,
South Carolina. And the reason I was able to get
that internship is because I always tell people, man, stop acting.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Like you know and just ask questions.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
So I've always been a question ask her, right, Like,
if there's something that I'm interested in, something I don't
know nothing about, I just asked questions about it, a
lot of questions, because you know, when you ask a
lot of questions, you know you'll get you'll get answers.
So I just simply asked my man his name was
Willy Will because he used to work as Z ninety
three Jams in Charleston, South Carolina, and we used to

(09:21):
rap together. Well, let me, I need to take a
step back, right. Rap is what we all thought was
gonna get us out of the hood right when you
was young, because when you looked on television or you
looked in magazines, the people who looked like you, who
were successful Black people were usually in rap are some
form of entertainment, are in athletics. So I always thought
rap was gonna take me out of the hood. I
love to write, always been a writer, so I just

(09:43):
started turning those stories I was writing into into raps.
But I was never good in the booth, so I
would like, go in the booth. I couldn't like catch
the bead stuff like that, you know what I mean?
Like that, I just could never do it. But I
was always good at writing, good at helping people pick songs,
stuff like that. And Willie Will was a guy who
could rap. He could actually he sounded really good, you know,
in the booth. And I just asked him how did

(10:05):
he get in the radio, and he was like, yeah,
I got an internship, and I was like, Yo, it'sdadd easy.
I could just go down there and get an internship.
And he was like, yeah, like I gotta be in
school or nothing, because in my mind, you got to
be in He was like, no, this is nineteen ninety
eight Charles in South Carolina. So that's what I did.
I drove down there and I got an internship and
literally they gave me then internship and that's how I
got into the radio game.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
So rap is what made.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Me feel like, Okay, this is gonna get me out
the hood. And then that ultimately led me to radio,
which was what changed my life. And you know, I
had a great mentor named doctor Robert Evans. You know,
I talk about him all the time. You know, in
my first book, I got a chapter called fuck your dreams,
you know, if they're not your dream right, because a
lot of times we see things working for other people

(10:47):
and we say, oh, we want to do that too,
but that's not what God has meant for you. So
doctor Evans told me, he was like, Yo, you suck
as a rapper, but you are an amazing radio personality
and if you focus on radio, you could be one
of the best that ever did it, And he literally
said that to me, and I took his advice.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
So I don't like to jump around, but it's the irony.
And you're saying that that was the advice you got.
But then in Get Honest or Die Lying, you actually
talk about doing the opposite in regards to.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
Your daughters astronaut kids.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
You still though cherished that that moment of honesty.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Well, astronaut kids. You know, in the new book is
a chapter I did with my man, Elliott Connie, who's
a psychotherapist, and you know, it's about the astronaut kid theory,
Like if your child comes to you and your child says, hey,
I want to be an astronaut. You know, you don't
say all that's impossible, you'll never be an astronaut, blah
blah blah. You tell them, okay, so how we're going
to get it done? You know, you pour into them,
you encourage them. And I also talk about, you know,

(11:49):
in Black Privilege, about how I had a family member
when I was just sitting around talking about all my dreams,
talking about everything I want to accomplish, they told me
not to set my goal. So how because if I
don't accomplish him, I'm gonna be hurt. And I literally
said to that person, that is the stupidest shit I
ever heard in my life, because I really felt that way,

(12:09):
and with asternat kids, when a child comes to you
and they say they want to be something, you should
pour into them. I still do believe in the fucking
dreams mentality, but I believe that more so with adults
who I know are chasing things that they see working
for other people as opposed to tapping into what it

(12:30):
is that they truly should be doing, you know themselves.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
I agree. So what you're saying is like over eighteen,
you definitely be honest. I remember I had an interview
with DC young Fly and he wanted to be like
a basketball player, and he said, you know, he transferred schools.
He was like the best basketball player in this like
little school. He was going to move to a different school.
He was like the worst basketball player, and the coach
like catapultar his dreams, was like, you'll never be a
basketball player. And he was like, well, thank god for

(12:56):
him saying that because it forced him to like check
out other lanes. And I do agree with that, but
I also heard the astronaut thing. I'm a new mom,
like I'm daughters too, so I'm like soaking up any
advice any parent will give me, you know. And I
was like, well, you know all these some people say
let your kid fall or whatever, but I did like
the beauty in the astronaut theory. Going back to your internship,

(13:19):
sorry to Derail. I like to see I like to
see the growth in you, and you see it. You
see it very You're very transparent about the growth of
who you were we were trying to be, and then
who you've become and who you're actively becoming. But go ahead,
take back to so you get into radio yep, and
what's what's the environment, like what what do you find

(13:40):
that you love the most about it? And what was
your internship duties at the time?

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Oh, internship duties. I did everything. I had to drive
the station vehicle. I had to put the posters up,
you know, I had to set up you know, the
DJ equipment if need be, set up the tables for
people to you know, put their stuff on, like literally
whatever I needed to do, Like you know, people like
to call that do boys stuff. But it's like, I mean,
I guess you know. So I used to actually take

(14:07):
the station vehicle home. So even when it was other
intern shifts, they would come and be like, well, where's
the truck?

Speaker 1 (14:15):
Why are you taking it?

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Because when they would come and be like where's the truck,
then they would have you know what, I think Charlotmage
had it last.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
So they would call like, I mean you got the truck?

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah? Actually I do. What's up? Oh we got somebody
got a remote in the hour, I'm on the way,
and I would take the truck and I would just
go to the remote with the intern.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
So I was there. I was crashing everybody's set.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
And then not just coming to the you know, all
the remotes, I would be sitting in the studio being
a fly on the wall. You know. Willie will used
to let me sit in with him a lot, and
I would just sit there and just like you know.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Soak it all up, you know, taking uh, taking what.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Was going on. And this is another reason the astronaut
kid theory is so powerful because I always talk about
my homegirl Testing Spencer, you know who's from Charleton South
cam and her and Baby Jay had a show on
Z ninety three called The Breakfast Club when I was
growing up, and that was the huge morning show in Charleston,
Z ninety three still is the big heritage station down there,

(15:12):
and Tesla calls. She called one day when I was
on a Sunday morning doing what we call voice tracking.
So voice tracking is basically you would record your your
breaks upload them, but you still had to sit in
the studio while the show was on because I was new,
you know, And she called and she goes, yo, you
know what. She was telling me about a traffic accident
that was somewhere on but she was like, yo, you

(15:32):
sound really good. And I said thank you. She's like, no, no, no, no,
I'm not just saying that, like you sound really good,
like a natural. And the confidence that gave me, like
the boost, the energy that gave me, like oh shit,
Tessauspencer from the Breakfast Club just told me I sound good.
Like So it solidified to me that I was doing

(15:55):
what I was supposed to be doing because it already
felt good. It felt amazing, like I'm talking, it felt
like on that microphone. It felt like the first time
you had orgasm, Like literally like that first time you
got high, you know, and you're like, oh man, this
is amazing, Like it just felt incredible. And so when
she told me that it just like set something off

(16:15):
of me, that it lit a spark that hasn't hasn't gone.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Out, like this is definitely my purpose.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
I knew that because you got this tattoo I got
on my arm or hire Is.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Oh my gosh, is that a Thundercat?

Speaker 2 (16:29):
No, it's Wolverine. It's horrible though. My man, it's a
guy named t Willis. This when tattoos were illegal in
South Carolina. My man, t Willis did this. But it's
Wolverine from the X Men holding a microphone in his hand.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
You need to get this.

Speaker 4 (16:43):
Oh yeah, I see see it.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
And the reason I got Wolverine because Wolverine is still
my favorite X Men character. But the thing I loved
about Wolverine was his healing powers. Literally, he had the
ability to heal from any situation. And so I always
knew in my mind even back then. I think I
got this when I was seventeen, I knew that. Yo.
Maybe I think I might have been a little older,

(17:05):
like eighteen nineteen, but I knew in my mind that
I wanted to have that ability. I wanted to have
the ability to heal from anything. This is befo I didn't.
I didn't know nothing but no therapy. I wasn't on
no healing journey back then. I was out of my
mind back then. But I just knew in my mind
I wanted to be able to heal from any situation.
And I knew physically, and I used to say this

(17:25):
to myself. I knew that wasn't possible physically, so I
used to always say emotionally mentally, you know, I wanted
to be able to heal from anything. And he's holding
a mic because I thought rap was gonna be what
changed my life, but actually it was these type.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Of microphones that changed my life.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
And then now you see, I'm I'm a huge mental advocate,
huge mental health advocate, helping people on their healing journey.
So it's just like, man, God, don't waste nothing.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
He don't. But now, back at eighteen to nineteen, you
also had the name Charlotamagne or you had the nickname.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Then, yes, because I was.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
I graduated from night school and let me see, I
graduate from night school in nineteen ninety eight, so I
was either I was either about to be twenty or
still nineteen. But yeah, because I used to sell crack
and I used to always say my name was Charles,
like because you know, I come from a small town,
so if I said my real name, people be like, oh,
that's Larry's son, that's Julie's son. So I used to

(18:20):
always say my name was Charles or Charlie. And then
we used to all smoke a lot of weeds, so
we all had a like like weed nickname. So I
was like Charlie Chronic. Somebody else was like Mikey Marijuana.
Somebody else was Nikabodism, somebody else was Bobby Buddha.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
I think it's interesting because throughout your whole story it
seems like you're you had the Charlemagne, which was almost
I hate to say it for lack of better terms,
but you had this like bad boy persona type oh yeah,
thing that you were you were leading with. But then
in the back of your mind, even with the god
or with the next it was like in the back
of your mind but like healing or moving in this

(18:58):
like purposeful direction, but even lingering in the background.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Right, yeah, But even with Charlamagne, because Charlamagne is French
for Charles the Great, and Charlemagne was a Roman emperor
who went about spreading religion and education. And then you
know in Haiti there's a general Charlemagne and he was
just a revolutionary, right, So I picked that name for
those reasons because they meant something. So I'm sitting in

(19:22):
night school looking at the history book and I see
Charles the Great, and I'm like, Charles the Great, I'm
like Charlemagne. I'm like, I'm like, Charlomagne is French for
Charles the Great. So I'm like, oh, I just call
myself Charlamagne, Charlamagne the God. So it really didn't make
no sense. It's like it'd be like Charles the Great,
the God. But I was seventeen in high all the

(19:42):
time I eighteen. I don't remember how. I can't remember
how I was, Like, I know it was nineteen ninety eight,
so I was like nineteen probably, but I was in
night school, Okay.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
And then now, when do you officially after the internships
start getting into paid, like how long?

Speaker 2 (19:58):
I I was an intern for a while because they
actually had canceled the internship programs, and then they brought
me back. And then when they brought me back, they
hired me in the promotions department. So basically to get paid,
I don't. I think it might have been six hours
an hour if that at the time. And so I
was getting paid a little bit of money, you know,
to being promotions. And then my man, Ron White, my guy,

(20:21):
Ron White, still my guy this day. He was a
music director at the time, and he was like, yo,
you need to You said, you ever thought about being
on the radio?

Speaker 3 (20:27):
And I was like nah. He was like no, nah,
because I hadn't, you know.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
I mean, I mean, yeah, I was just I was
just happy to be there and like you know, every
now and then I would jump on with Willie will
you know, but I never thought to myself, I can
get my own show or anything like that. He was like, yo,
you should, you should, you should.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
Be on air.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
And so Ron White is the president that started, you know,
allowed me to voice track and put me on their
you know. So that's why I got mad love for
you know, Ron to this day. Like, you know, certain
people change the trajectory trajectory of your life, and you know,
you you should always honor those people, you know, for

(21:16):
even if you're not on the great terms of them,
even if you don't like the person no more, you
should always honor them in your story, Yeah, by telling
them that you know, but tell telling that story about them,
because you can't erase that.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
The only reason why I wanted to know the how
long it is? Because we are definitely in the air
and you talk about it in the book where everyone is,
especially with the younger people, and I try to think
back if I was like that, even though I catch
myself still being like that is like the overnight success,
Like how long did it take? That's why I wanted
to stress, like thirty years in radio broadcasting? How long
did it take of you struggling before you got your

(21:49):
first big Like, uh, well, I don't want to say
the six dollar check, but that you.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
Know, Oh, I didn't get a huge check in radio?
Tell Breakfast Club wow, because.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Breakfast Club was just easily ten years, right.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yet longer cause it was that was Breakfast Club was
the seventh radio station I worked at. So I started
in nineteen ninety eight and then I got with Breakfast
Club in two thousand and ten.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Year, So what's that?

Speaker 1 (22:15):
What's that twelve years? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:20):
So I worked at four radio stations in Charleston and
then I was with Wendy Winn. But I worked with
Wendy for like a year and a half for free,
you know. And then when I got put on salary,
I was making seventy thousand dollars a year. And then
I got my own morning show in Philadelphia, and I
still was making like seventy grand a year, seventy seventy
five grand a year, something like that. And then I
went back home. I had to go back home to

(22:41):
South carolinacause I fired four times.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, and that was my next one. Why were you
getting fired so much?

Speaker 2 (22:45):
That was just a game, Like it wasn't even about
anything that I was necessarily doing. It's just like that's
just the business of a radio. Like when I started
as the ninety three Jams. That's why I was an intern.
That's when I was in promotions. That's when I worked
in programming. I quit, you know, there to go work
at a station called Hot Night nine. My man George Cook,
who is the operations manager at K one O four
in Dallas. He's the first person to give me a

(23:07):
full time job on radio. Still a great mental mind
to this day. And even then I was making nineteen
grand a year. And then I, you know, went to
Columbia after I got fired from Hot ninety nine. They
fired George George who hired me, They fired him, bought
in a new guy, Corey Hill, who was the program director,
and then Corey fired me because he Corey wanted to
bring in his own people. Of course, that's just the

(23:28):
way the game goes in radio.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
Now, during this whole journey, what's your mental health looking like?
Are you starting a second guess whether this is your journey?
I really want to dig into that mental health state
when you're going through that roller coaster wave, because you
even ended up back at home with your parents at
some point.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
I did the first time. The first time I got
fired from radio, which was Hot ninety eight nine in Charleston,
I was a little I was a little fucked up
mentally because I didn't know that I could go do
radio other places. So in my mind like that was
my one shot. Yeah, because I mean I didn't I'm
from Monst Corner, South Carolina. I know that area. I
know I can have success in Charleston. I never even

(24:07):
thought about, you know, doing radio other places. And it
wasn't until I did this demo tape. But it was
actually because I used to do my man, doctor Robert
Evans and his son, my guy DJ Bluss loved him
to death. They had a record label called Never So Deep,
and so I was doing an r for them, and
they put out a compilation album and it was like
all of their artists because they had a subsidiary deal

(24:29):
with an MCA back then. That's MCA was a big
label back in the day. And so they had a
compilation album and I narrated the compilation album, but I
put it together like a radio show, and so we
were just sending that out, you know, around the country,
and one of the program directors in South Carolina named
Mike Love, he was like yo, He'd sent me an email.
He was like, yo, Yo, do you do radio for real?

(24:51):
And I'm like yeah, and he was like, man, come
see me. And so I drove an hour and a
half the Columbia, South Carolina from Monks Corner.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
I met my guy, Mike G.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Love salutor Mike Love, and Mike started putting me on
in Columbia Thursday, I think I was on Friday, Saturday
and Sunday in Columbia.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Maybe Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I don't remember it.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
And that was your second after getting fired from the first.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
That was yeah, that was it, But that was the
third station I worked at.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Third.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, and I loved working in Columbia because my wife
was going to the University of South Carolina, so that's
in Columbia. So now I had a reason to be
up there every weekend, you know what I mean. So
once again, that's God. You can't you cannot script that,
like that is all God. That's God putting all of
those pieces together. Like I want y'all to be with
each other, you know here right, even if y'all go

(25:38):
through ups and y'all go through downs, I still want
you all around each other. Because we did break up
for a year at one point during that time. We've
been together twenty six years. But long story short, I
ended up in Columbia that station. Big DM flipped formats,
so I ended up going to work for the station
that they bought, which was Hot one O three nine,
which was the big hip hop station in that market.
And from Hot one O three point nine, that's when

(25:59):
when Williams got syndicated on Hot one on three point nine.
So when they would come to the market, her and
her husband, I would just show them love, you know
what I mean, like make sure they was good or
whatever they needed, you know, take them to the clubs,
stuff like that. And that's how we forged a relationship,
you know. And and it wasn't just they forged a
relationship with other people around the station at that time too,
like you know, my homegirl Venom, she had a good

(26:21):
relationship with them as well. So we all just had
a had a relationship, you know, And that's how all
of those dots ended up connecting.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Okay, how was it working with Wendy Williams? Oh?

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Best best and worst time in my life? You know,
best and worst, best and worst time in my life,
just because like Wendy come from it, she comes from
a different era, you know, Like there's been time I remember,
I remember sitting in the studio offering some input and
shut the fuck up and do it my way or
get the fuck out, you know what I mean, shut that.

(26:56):
I don't want to H shit from you, motherfucker.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
Like so it was like it was like before H.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Well nowadays HR terrified.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
I think about that shit all the time, Like when's
their HR departments? Back then?

Speaker 3 (27:08):
It couldn't have been not the ship we know.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
I think. Also when you're young, I don't think anyone
really knows how to use HR. I mean, I could
be wrong with today's culture of cancel culture like people
are like more, but I remember being like sexually her,
like all types of things because I did not know
how HR worked. I just knew I needed my job
and I wasn't willing to do anything to jeopardize.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
And that's you know, back then, it was like, you know,
I had I was. I had personal relationship with them, man,
professional relationship with them, and you saw how everything turned
out with you know, her and her husband. So it
was like all of that was a very tumultuous, tumultuous,
I don't know if I'm saying the word right, tumultualists, tumultuous, tumultuous,
A fucked.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Up situation it was. It was all fun. It was
a very fucking up situation.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Like that too. Also, it is like because the lines
were blurred, right, so that's why she was talking. So
what was the highlight of it?

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Just working with Wendy, working with one of the greatest
media personalities of all time. You know, regardless of what
her you know, personal showcomings may have been, professionally, she's
one of the fucking best to ever do it. You know,
from TV to radio, like I mean the things that
I used to watch her do, as far as like
you know, show prep, like you know, Wendy was a

(28:17):
person who really lived. She lived, you know, the culture
that she spoke about. She wasn't one of those people
who got in front of the microphone and gossiped because
you know, she was performing.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
That's really who she was.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
And so for me, it was just that's not I mean,
I don't want to do the gossip thing, but it
was just like be authentic, be who you are. Like
I would see I would be with her all day
and then come sit with her in that studio and
do the show and watch her detail our day. You
understand what I'm saying. So it's just like everything was
content for her. I was in the store and this happened,

(28:54):
we were driving and this, Like it was all content.
And so it's like for me, that's like that's how
that's always been my approach, you know, like your life,
your life is your best content. That's why I'm able
to write three books because I'm not performing. I'm literally
just showcasing and sharing all of these different things that
you know, I've experienced, all these different things that I've learned,

(29:14):
and I'm not afraid to be transparent, Like I gotta
be afraid to be transparent. When I've heard Wendy Williams
talk about being on crack smoking, smoking sniff and coke cooking,
the coke smoking, the crack, throwing up on the radiator
because she was so high, and then the fucking radiator cooking,
the cooking, the throw up.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Like, but that's that's a surreal It's an amazing story.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
So if I come from being next to that, why
wouldn't I be just as authentic? Plus we hip hop. Yeah,
so think about all the stories we've heard, the jay
Z's tell and the Big East Tell and the Scarfaces
and the killing Mike, all of these people that we love.
So it's just like, I want to be that same
type of storyteller.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
So was it in that moment that you realize that
authenticity was the key to success in radio?

Speaker 2 (29:57):
Oh? Yeah, I knew that. But I knew that before
Wendy because I was already admiring people like Wendy.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
I was already admiring pe D Green.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Pe D Green is that's my all time favorite radio personality, right,
So I already knew authenticity was what separated you. Period. Like,
it's ironic that the name of this book is called
Get Honest or Die Lying, because that could have been
the name of my first book. Because literally, I've always
my daddy used to always tell me when you lying

(30:25):
to people, or he was used to say, specifically him,
you lying. You think you're lying to me, but you're
only lying to yourself. And so I never ever wanted
to be that person that is, you know, lying to themselves,
because what happens is you end up volunteering those lives
to other people. And I think that's what's happening in
this era that we're in now in social media, like
you know, just everybody feel like they got to perform,

(30:46):
So who's really truly being themselves? Everybody's showing up with
a mask on?

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yeah, social but you know what it's you talk You
mentioned Larussell, but I thought l Russell did a really
good job at kind of putting the case and I
talked him about and I'm like, yo, I can't be
that transparent. He's like, you got to you know, I
don't know, he'd be showing like, Okay, this was the
sales or this is me pressing up the show. He
would show everything, just document everything, and I thought that

(31:11):
was like a crazy amount of transparency. I was like,
I could never ever do that.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
I love that dude.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Man. L Russell was introduced to me by my late
great friend Hovain, and I never forget it because Hovain
he sent me a video of Lrussell rapping and Larussell
it was like the first one. It was the one
that went crazy viral. Well, he was rapping about so
many things, the socially redeeming value, he was rapping about

(31:38):
being a young brother, trying to heal. Like it was
everything I was on and so Hovain sent it to
me and I didn't get a chance to listen to it.
I remember a couple of days later, Vain text me like,
there's no way you listened to that, because you know me.
He was like, there's no way you listened to that,
and I was like, you know what, let me let
me listen to it. When he text me that, I
listened and I'm like, why are you just telling me

(32:02):
about him? He's like, I sent you this three days ago,
crazy right, And so it was like immediately I had
to repost it because I wanted the world to hear that,
and then you know when you meet l Russell, his
energy is just just everything man. So he's just one
of them young brothers. He always got my support just
because he's a He's a solid, solid human being who
I think is delivering a message not just of independence

(32:23):
when it comes to business, but a message of healing
that I think a lot of brothers need to heal.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, Integrity is like definitely like a word I use
a lot, and when I'm looking for entrepreneurs, celebrities or influencers,
I'm always looking for that level of integrity. And I
remember just being like, okay, like talented, definitely talented and
all that, but I was like I want to know,
like if we're a fly on your wall, like what
am I seeing?

Speaker 2 (32:49):
For real? But that's what integrity is. And that's that's
another part of the book, right get Honest to Die line.
That's why I said, like, you know, we tell we
lie to ourselves and then we volunteer these lives the
other people. Integrity to me is doing what's right when
nobody's around. Who are you when the camera's not on?
Who are you when the microphone isn't on? Like because

(33:09):
I really care more about God than anybody. That's why
you don't care about perception. You should focus on your
character because perception is what everybody thinks about you, and
that varies from person to person. Character is who you
actually are. So I care about my character. I don't
care if the world has a perception of me because

(33:33):
they don't know me, you know. And that's why people
will say things like, what's the biggest misconception about you? Charlman?
There is no misconception because I don't know what version
of me you saw. I've been doing this shit for
twenty six years, you know what I mean. I don't
know what version of me you saw. So whatever version
of me you saw, whatever perception you have of me
based off what you saw, I can't trip off that,

(33:54):
you know.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
No, Now, after the Wendy Williams, you leave Wendy Williams.
How long was the gap between Wendy Williams and the
Breakfast Club?

Speaker 2 (34:04):
I left Wendy November tewod, two thousand and eight.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
No, you remember this well.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
I remember it for a particular reason. I remember it
because President Barack Obama became He became President elect on
November third, two thousand and eight. So and I got
fired November second, two thousand and eight from Wendy, but
like twenty five people got fired like it was a
massive layoff. People forget how fucked up the economy was
in two thousand and eight. So it wasn't just me

(34:28):
that got fired. You had great legendary radio personality like Bond,
Harper got fired and Champagne like these are legendary urban
adult contemporary personality.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
When you got fired, did you actually look at it
as everyone's getting the rap? Because I know me, I'll
be like, I know everyone's going through it, but what
about well, you know.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
It was good for me because when I got fired,
it was news like it was in like the New
York Times and like I think it was pix eleven
or one of these local New York radio stations came
to interview me and Wendy about my firing. I remember
them saying fan favorite, and I was like, oh shit,
fan favorite, because you got to think when I first
started with Wendy, they hated me, like literally, New York
City did not fuck with me. Like they even put

(35:09):
up a survey that said they said, shar Charlamae sent
back home. It was like eighty five percent of people
was like sending his ass back home.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
How did that make you feel when you saw those surveys?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
It didn't make me feel any way. Like I promise you, man,
I've never been that kind of person. Like I just
I understand things happen, and I have such a belief
in myself, and I have such a belief in God,
and I have such a belief in what you know,
what God has me here to do that I just
feel like all of that I knew even back then,

(35:44):
even though it might have stung, I just knew it
was part of the process. Like I knew I was
not going to lose. I constantly hear jay z voice
in my head. I will not lose, you know. I
just I knew that I was not going to lose.
And so it's like, all right, I'll get y'all. You
might you may not like me now, but I'll get y'all.
And fast forward two and a half years later, the

(36:06):
news is reporting I'm a fan favorite, and guess what
me working at Wendy. I did what I was supposed
to do at Wendy so much that I ended up
getting my own radio show in Philadelphia and I loved
it right because I got fired November second, two thousand
and eight. My oldest daughter, who actually turned sixteen today
or the day we're taping this, she had been born

(36:27):
June of that year. So from November two thousand and
eight to like May of two thousand and nine, I
was home every day with my daughter because my wife
was the one going to work every day. My wife
was keeping the lights on. I was too proud to
go collect unemployment. I had no money.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
You didn't even collect collect.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
I didn't collet unmployment til I got fired from Philadelphia.
From my fourth time.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
I love that's your wife, and you definitely had that
team environment like ones down. Well it's okay, we're gonna run.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
It, man. She held it down, you know. I mean,
I mean we ultimately had we were facing the victions
and all types of stuff like that, but she held
it down. And so it's like when I started off,
I started doing radio and Philly. I got the morning
radio show in Philly because of what I had done
on Wendy Show, and then from morning radio that morning
radio and in Philly even though I was only there for
eight nine months and got fired right for the same

(37:13):
reason they bought in a new program director guy named
Boogie Dee you know who fired me from one hundred
point three to beat in Philly. They need to be
aware of their fuck ups. These people need to be
aware of the mistakes they made in life. So he
fired me, and I was We went home for a year,

(37:33):
me and my wife and my oldest daughter and went home.
He went home to South Carolina for a year. That's
when I started collecting unemployment. I had never collected unemployment
from any of those four radio stations I got fired.
So I was getting like eleven hundred dollars a week
for like fifty two weeks the whole year. And the
last unemployment check I got was like November, like second

(37:54):
week in November, And that was the same week I
think I started breakfast club. Wow, yep wow.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
And then you come to breakfast club and this is
it sounds like you could correct me. Is this this
the highest salary of your career? Because now you're what
you said in your book one and now look at you.
I also, you know, I had to like just out
of share curiosity, and he made one hundred and twenty
five k then like and then to see I googled
it is probably wrong, but I was like, okay, so

(38:23):
then how much does he make now from the breakfast club?
I think I said like three million or something like that. Wow,
is a lie? Is it Google?

Speaker 2 (38:30):
A lie? I don't know.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
I wont from and I have no idea. I'm not
I'm not one of those guys.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
I don't know why I googled it. I was just random.
I get curious all the most random stuff. Okay, so
you're at the breakfast club. Where does publishing take place,
like the book writing? Where does that like happen? Because
I know the first time I read Black Privilege had
to been Was it seven year? No?

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, it came out, it came out, it came out
twenty sixteen. No, it came out twenty seventeen, came out
twenty seventeen, came out April of twenty seventeen.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
I read that book. It's so funny. The only other
books I've ever read by entertainers mainly Jay Z Russell Simmons,
and I read your book and it inspired me to
read I think Kevin Hart's book, and then I realized, no,
not everyone's the same. I really like your writing.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Thank you, I really like it. I mean, I actually write.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
You know, my guy Chris Morrow, who I always give
credit to because you know, he told me two things
that absolutely changed my life. He told me twelve years ago,
you need to write a book, and you need to
start a podcast. And I always wanted to write a
book because I'm a writer, right, I knew that was
gonna come. But I was like a podcast. I was like,
why would I start a podcast? Podcast for people who
can't get on radio? Oh, I remember saying that twelve yeah,

(39:46):
twelve years ago even, and he was like, he was like,
now I'm telling you man, it's gonna be the next wave. YadA, YadA, YadA.
And I started listening to Combat Jack around that time,
God Bless the Dead Reggie Oshe and so I listened.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
I was like, you know what, why not?

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Because in my mind, I'm like, I already been fired,
you know, four times from radio. And the thing that
kept me afloating in people's minds after I got fired
from Philadelphia was I got to salute Angelie going up
to her satellite radio show doing guest spots on there,
and me and Little Duball used to do a YouTube
show called Hood State of the Union Me and Little

(40:21):
Duball was doing YouTube shows back in two thousands, and
it was first brand new exactly, and like people would
watch them on YouTube, but then the Bloggs would pick
them up like world Star and everybody else.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
And so that's how I ended up.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Even getting my first looks in TV, like my first
real looks in TV, because Nick Cannon had a show
called a Hayton that he was the executive producer on,
and my girl Tiffany Williams, she put me in Douball
on that show. So I've always understood the power of
the Internet, right and how to utilize the Internet to
build a national audience. So that's why I started the

(40:58):
podcast because I knew, all right, let's just say I
do get fired from Breakfast Club, at least I have
something else, you know, going on. So me and my
guy Andrew Schultz, who now is the biggest comedian in
the world, which I would have.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
No idea how impressed a journey.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
I used to go back and listen to old brid
Idiots episodes.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
I used to say that I'm like yo, Andrews shot
to get that because there was a comedian named Russell
uh Russell Peters and he was like the biggest touring
comedian in the world, but people didn't even really realize it.
And I used to always say, Andrew, you're gonna be that,
You're gonna be the biggest touring comedian in the world, like, and.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
That's what he's doing now.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
But back then I just thought he was smart, funny
because we used to do guy code together and we
used to talk on the phone. And I remember one
time we we we all ended up on a plane
the LA for the MTV Awards or something like that.
We all rolled in the car together, me and him
and Melanie Igalacias, and we like me and Andrew has
been cool since then.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
You know, when did you actually say Okay, yes, I'm
gonna do book publishing and then with that you ended
up doing your own you published it yourself.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Well, no, I put out A Black Privilege with Simon
and Schuston. Black Privilege had tremendous success, you know, instant bestseller,
New York Times national bestseller. It was on New York
Times Bestsellers this for like twenty plus weeks. And so
they came to me and they wanted me to do
another book. Immediately, I had started therapy in twenty sixteen. So, Man,

(42:35):
in the middle of twenty seventeen, late twenty eighteen, I
was in a total different mind state because I was
unlearning so many things that I had learned throughout my life,
and I was dealing with a lot of the traumas
that I had never ever, you know, dealt with before.
So I was really in a confused state. And so
when twenty eighteen came around and they kept pressing me
for this book, pressing me for this book, I was like, look, man,

(42:57):
I've been going to therapy. I can share some of
the journey of that. I can share some of the
things that you know, I go there and talk about.
And that's what I did. And then my book agent,
Jan Miller, had the idea to add my man doctor
ish major, who gave the clinical correlations to the things
that I was saying. Like, if you go back and
you listen to Shook one or read Shook one, you'll

(43:17):
you'll hear how raw that was, You'll hear you know,
the mind state that I was in, you know, at
that time. And then when it came time to do
my third book, because you know, Hick One was a
success as well, another bestseller, I was like, yo, I
don't even want like a big advance, Like I'm not
looking for like a huge amount of money, because you know,

(43:39):
every time you put out a book, you know, you
have success, advances get bigger. I was like, yo, just
give me, you know, give me what y'all gave me
for the last one. But I really want to imprint.
I really want to be able to publish other people's.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Oh that's how the privileged publishing.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
It literally was like that because you know, for me,
man like I always say, if whatever your if whatever,
your build thing only benefits you, it's not big enough.
So I was just like, yo, let me get an imprint.
And by the way, all I can say is no, right,
And it was like, hell, yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Did with the Black Effect podcast network, Yeah, did you
do the same thing.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah, Black Effect was essentially the same thing, because a
little bit different, only because you know, with radio you
have contracts and so you know, five years five years
is like the max deal and I had did a
couple of five year deals already. Yeah, I did a
couple of five years. I was up. Yeah, so when
twenty twenty came, my five years was up. So you know,

(44:36):
we were in negotiations, and you know the beauty and
I give, I give a little jewel because it'll never
happen again, but I'll give a little jewel. I come
from the era of radio where all of these new
things that we were doing weren't in our contracts, meaning

(44:56):
like I had a radio contract, so the only you know, entities,
I couldn't have conversations with his other radio stations.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
With the world changed, So.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Now we're doing We've been doing Brand Idiots podcasts for
eight nine years at that time, right, and there's all
of these different platforms, the apples and the Spotify's, and
all of these different people are looking for content, and
it's like, oh, Charlamagne's contract is up right, are coming up?
So you know, you had different people, you know, reaching

(45:28):
out to my agents whoever else. And I always had
this idea because I was looking at just the landscape
of podcasting and I'm like, man, you know, you got
Barstool over here, and you got gimblet over here, and
you know, I was already a part owner of the
Loud Speaking Network with my man Chris Morrow and Combat Jack.
But I felt like there was no house for black

(45:50):
podcasts like you had all of these black podcasts that
were scattered all over the place, and they had audiences,
but they might not have been connecting that audience with
the ad revenue dollars.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
I was just like, Yo, let's I want to launch
a podcast network.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
I want to start my own you know, podcast network
called The Black Effect. And it didn't make any sense,
you know, to go anywhere else. You know, even though
even though I had conversations, even though even though there
was other conversations had iHeart is the biggest audio publishing
you know, company in the world. So when I presented

(46:24):
my vision the iHeart of what I wanted.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
To do, they were all in.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
And so I'm a fifty one percent majority owner of
The Black Effect. This isn't a this isn't a vanity label.
This isn't something you know, Hey, let's just give him
something and put his name on it. Which, by the way,
and I want to say this, a lot of those
other companies, that's what they were trying to do. So
a lot of those other companies. I never told him,
like what I wanted to name and stuff like that.
I just, you know, my agent told them what the

(46:49):
idea was. And a lot of those other companies wanted
to do things like that, but they didn't want to
give me no real ownership. They didn't want to give
me no real equity. So I could have went other
places and got like a big ass check and had
a vanity podcast network, but I would have to run
everything by them, and they would have to have first
rider refusal on what I could bring in, Like I
couldn't be like, yo, let's bring in eating while broke.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
They'd be like, well, who is by the way, shout
out to you for that? I will. I want to
say such on a couple of things before we wrapt. Secretly, No,
I'm secretly scared of the time because your team is
like assured me that I beat over. One thing I
wanted to shout out to you, is I did I
you know, I previously did come from the Nick can
I worked with Nick Cannon for like ten plus years

(47:33):
as a partner and another company. And one of the
things that I'm not hopefully just scratches, but one of
the things I noticed with being in the industry is
male dominated. One of the things I love about working
with the Black Effect Network is that not only is
it women of color that pretty much run it. I
don't even know if there's men over there.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
There probably is, but male producers like a king.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
You're right, my producer is a male. But I'm saying
like the the women are like really running it and
holding it down. And it's like you could pick up
the phone. I mean, if I say anything crazy, Dolly
will call me in three seconds, dang even and I
immediately know I'm in trouble. But I love how it is.
But I also love like I always ask people like

(48:19):
the transparency, So how's how is he really? You know,
and you take good care of them, and you don't
see that a lot in the industry. I've seen more
of the opposite, where the men get the checks and
the women do the work and then the women don't
get paid and then it's just like eventually they die off.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Man, I don't Black Effect is successful because of Dolly Bishop,
And you know I knew that.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
It's like, man, God tells me things.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
It's like I always do because Dolly's you know, a
family friend like Dolly, that's my homie before it's anything else,
and so I always do. Like Rock Nation is like
a lot of my blueprint. And if you go to
rock nation. It's the same thing. Like you know, Daz
is in charge, right there is the president, a woman,
and there's a lot of other women in position of
power as well. And you know, I just always think
I always thought that was so dope because like, women

(49:05):
get things done, they really do. I just did, especially
black women, women of color, they get things done. And
so it's like I always knew I'm gonna start this
entity and I want Dolly to run it, like I
always knew that.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Side note, So Dolly during the pandemic, I was doing
a lot of crazy stuff because my company had shut down.
And anyways, Dolly had called me and she said, hey,
I'm thinking about getting taken this job or whatever. I'm
not too sure. I didn't ask her what it was.
I was like, yo, girl, if you don't have to
punch a clock, you get a check. They don't like

(49:38):
watch you every day. What are we even discussing, Like
we're in the middle of the end times, Like take
a check, you know. And for whatever reason, did not
think to ask what the job was. You know, whil'n
out niked pissed off the world with the jew comments,
nobody knew what the heck was going on. I did
not think to ask, so then I don't ask. I
just like take the job, Like what do we discussed Dolly?

(50:00):
You I've seen Dolly play every hat and she's she's
very skilled at you don't have to worry about her integrity.
She's gonna get the job done whatever whatever reason she
questioned it. So anyways, I'm trying to do eating while broke.
On the side, I like pitch my friends, like you know,
all celebrity friends, like yo, I need you to take
one for the team. And on one of the texts,
I had said something about like Dolly and then one
of them was like Dolly, and I guess in Variety

(50:22):
they had just announced that she was like the president
of the Black I had no idea, right, so I
get the text and I'm like, yo, Dolly, Yo, I
need to use her name more, and she's like what
are you talking about? She I was like yo, and
I sent her like the Variety thing like is this
the job?

Speaker 3 (50:36):
And I'm like what.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
I was like okay, and she was like, and don't
use my name everywhere and I was like I'm definitely
using your name everywhere. And then true story, people always
ask how I ended up on the Black Effect. I
had been telling Dolly about eating while broke, so then
I get a call one day She's like, you're gonna
kill me. Why would I want to kill you. She's like, oh,
you're gon be so mad at me. Oh in my head,

(51:03):
I'm like no. And I had told her like when
I do eating while broke, like you gotta like we
gotta put all our hats, all our names, and everyone's
contacts have to come together, which, by the way, Dolly
does not like to do. I didn't know that until now.
But anyway, she calls me, she's like, so I was
on the phone with Iheartic all you guys, and I
pitched Eating while broke and I was like, okay, well,

(51:26):
what's the bad thing? She was like, they loved it
and like Charlotte wants to show. And I was like, okay,
what is the bad news? She's like, what's the podcast?
I said, I don't care. We need distribution, girl, I'll
take it, Like what do they need from me? And
my in my garage was like the eating while broke table, Like,
I mean my neighbors were driving past me like what
is this girl up to?

Speaker 2 (51:46):
You know?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
And I always tell people like God like somehow aligned
it because my plan for it was so like minute
and then you know, accidentally by the share like accident,
you guys end up in this call and everything happened,
and I think it was beautiful. And every time I
see you, I always try to make sure you know,
like you know that I appreciate you took a chance

(52:10):
on And I remember Dolly coming out to LA like,
we've never seen you in front of the camera, so
we're gonna we're gonna watch you do it. And then
she saw me and she was like, this is you.
This is I was like what. But uh, I hate
talking about politics because I have my own insecurities. But
recently in LA I did interview a congressman and I

(52:30):
just kind of just was like very transparent about, uh,
how much I don't know about politics. It's not something
I like to argue about because I don't know enough facts.
I don't like to vote because I don't know enough facts.
But one of the things that I learned in that
interview is I was talking to my dad and he
had said something about like how he got all this
money for like against like you know, the imprison the

(52:54):
jail system or whatever. My dad had said something like, yeah,
but how did he spend how is he spending the money?
And I just didn't think to ask that question. And
I think, you know, after that interview, after like getting
that close in person with a congress person and seeing
like who they are and how they got to where
they're at, what I'm learning at politics and is that

(53:15):
government and politics they're they're not necessarily together.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
Well, it depends.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
I mean, you know, you have I think people forget
that there's local politics and there's national politics. And I
think most of the time, most of the time, what's happening
you know, locally may not be happening nationally. There's a
lot of things that I see happening, you know, locally,
places that I wish were you know, happening nationally. Like
you know, right now, you look at Maryland and you

(53:41):
look at you know what Wes Moore just did, you know,
by pardoning I think one hundred and seventy five thousand
people from misdemeanor marijuana convictions. Now, I think that's a
great start. I think that you know, they could go further.
I think that they should pardon if you know, if
you're in prison right now, in a state where marijuana
is legal and you're in there for a non violent
drug offense, I think you should be pardoned, and I

(54:04):
think your record should be exponged.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
But I think what is doing as a great start.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
But I wish that that was the model for nationally
because President Biden could do that, and for a person
like President Biden, you know, who was hands on with
the eighty six mandatory minimum centizen, who was hands on
with the eighty eight crack laws, who was hands on
with the ninety four crime bill, that would be a
good way to atone, you know, for some of those

(54:28):
for some of that legislation that you created that put
so many black and brown people away.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
You could with a wave, with a stroke of a pen.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
You don't need nobody else but you to say, if
you're a non violent drug offender in prison, you should
be pardoned, and I think your record should be expunged,
especially you know marijuana.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, I agree, And then I remember when marijuana became illegal,
it was like anyone that had those those that record
couldn't even get into the wee business. My dad was
like very upset, like could you imagine, like you perfected
this career you've spent ten years and now you can't
even get the life.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
That's right, That's right. I got a license.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yeah, we got a dispensary opening in a new New
Jersey called Hashtoria. It'll we open this ship. You know.
It's myself, Ray Con the chef, Bakari Sellers and Jed
and Josh are are two partners who run Hashtoria. So
we got a dispensary open and know we got a
dispensary and consumption lone.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
For people that sorry to cut you off on that.
For people that don't know that much about politics and
are starting to think about voting, what are the questions
that you feel they should be asking like politicians are
looking for in politicians.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
I tell everybody vote their interests. Like you know, it's
not hard what people are looking for. I don't care
if you're black. I don't care if you're white. I
don't care what your gender is, I don't care what
your sexuality is. Everybody wants money in safety. Life is about,
you know, doing something that's going to put you in
a financial position to create some up with mobility, and

(56:01):
we just all want to feel safe. So I think
that you should look you know, to the elected officials
who are creating policies, who are creating legislation, that's putting
money in people pocket and that's making people safe. Like
it's really not that hard, it's not that difficult. And
when you find that person that is doing those things,
both on them.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Okay, Yeah, I think I like that advice. But I
also I think in the past year, I don't trust
as many people. I don't blame you, and I'm more like,
even if I were to date now, I'm like, what's
your resume looking like, give me the X numbers? Like
I don't give it anymore. If you can't give me
an X number and they say this is then I

(56:41):
don't want to do it anymore.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
You getting references.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Yeah, I haven't started dating again yet, but yeah, my
husband got fired or he's getting fired anyways. But yeah,
I think like even with Kamala Harris, I heard like
she was a district attorney that like put a lot
of people away in her previous Like I'm looking at
all references, but do you think that matters or no?

Speaker 2 (57:05):
I mean that one was interesting because she was a
DA doing her job, you know, And I mean that's
what the laws were you know at that time, you know,
I mean, I've definitely seen her pivot, you know, on
her stance in regards to marijuana. But that's why I
think people like her, just like people like President Biden,
should be advocating heavily and not just advocating. They should

(57:27):
be doing pardon everybody in America on a federal level
who has a non violent drug offense, especially for marijuana.
They have the power to do that.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
They have the power to do it. And why do
you think they're not doing it? Then?

Speaker 2 (57:43):
I don't. I mean, nobody's pushing them politically, but that
would be an amazing thing for both of them to
do because both of them have those reputations, both of
them have you know, those type of records. So it's like, yo,
do that say that, Hey, y'all, you're changing with the times. Know,
just you noticed legislation that y'all that that was created

(58:04):
hurt a lot of people back then. So it's just
like that is the way you atone, you know, for
things like that. So I've been saying, I think that
would be one of the most fantastic political strategies that
they could do right now, you know, like during especially
during an election. Yet like all of this, all of
this right now is dream selling season. Everybody's pandering. Everybody's saying,

(58:25):
you know, and that's what's so crazy. Right You're in
the White House, so you have power that your you know, opponent,
Donald Trump does not have, So you can actually do things.
He can only talk about the things he wants to do. So, yes,
it is dream selling season. Yes, they are pandering to
us for our vote. And I mean those are the

(58:45):
things that I think that we should push for them
to do because I can you imagine that headline. Imagine
you opened up your phone and you looked on you know,
Shade Room or whatever whatever it is, you know, and
or just anything, and it said it said President Biden
pardons all non violent drug offenders effective immediately or whatever

(59:07):
it is. Like whoa you know that.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Would that would get and vote? Okay, it rile everybody up,
All right, Well, what what more can you share with
us in regards to get honest or die line? We
haven't already covered.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
It's just a book that I want everybody to read
because I want to challenge everybody to be the most
honest version of themselves possible. We have to stop lying
on ourselves, and we have to stop volunteering those lives
to other people. You know. The subtitle is why small
talk sucks because I hate micro conversations. I think we
got to, you know, find a way to start having
big conversations. I think that we have too much, you know,

(59:47):
unnecessary small talk, and I think that we put small
talk and the big talk on the same scale, so
it feels like everything weighs the same when they don't, right,
they don't. And we don't know how to even have,
you know, big conversations. We genuinely do not have. We
don't even know how to discuss big conversations, and that's
why America can't ever truly solve no problems. You ask

(01:00:09):
me why, you know, President Biden doesn't, you know, due
to non violent pardon the non violent drug offenders, Because
nobody's really really having that conversation on a big, big
level like they should. You know, they rather talk about
transgenders and sports like that ain't affecting nobody's life like
God blessed them, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
But it's definitely like that whome it's a media. In
your book, you even talked about like how they trade
the like this Trump did it like to distract the people.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
That's right, that's right. And so it's just like your
people like we just don't know how to discuss what
we should be talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
We make minors majors now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Random question, do you think the algorithms play a role
in dumbing us down?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
One hundred percent? That's why I hate algorithms. That's why
you have to disconnect. Like I tell people all the time,
don't be a don't be a surf will be a
wave because surfers have to ride waves the algorithm depending.
We all ride the wave of whatever algorithm is presented
to us instead of actually being our own waves. And

(01:01:17):
you know, figuring out, man, what is what is it
I should actually be thinking about in regards to this situation,
or should I even be thinking about this situation at all?
Think about things that come across your timeline every day
that you wasn't even thinking about, but now you can't
get it off your motherbucker mind just because they came
across your timeline. And guess what, it really don't even matter.
It's something so small and so trivial, But you'll say

(01:01:39):
I saw it, I saw them. They were arguing a
couple of weeks ago about are you safeer around a
man or a bear? And I mean and people having
in depth conversations about this shit on park and I'm like,
where the fuck did this even come from? Why is
this a thing? It's like, are you safe for around
a man or a bear? How about we have conversations

(01:02:00):
about how.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
These conversations blow up because everyone's so obsessed with viral
moments and getting the hashtag to get these these numbers up,
It's become it's like a chicken in the egg situation.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Yeah, I don't be honest with you. I don't know
what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
I don't know what makes these things go viral.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
I just know that we have to at the end
of the chapter, every chapter, I say lesson discussion because
we got to start focusing on macros instead of micros,
Like why are we having conversations about women?

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
What are you safe for around a man or a bear?

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
How about we just have conversations about how to make
women safe period? What the fuck bear has got to
do with it? It's just it's just silly to me.
So it's just like, yeah, I want to just get
us focused on.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Just the macs real discussions.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Gets to the real facts and keeping it honest.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
So please go get it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Get honest a dieline while small talk sucks, available everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Uh, check out some of your other books if you
really want to in depth conversation on Who's Charlemane? And
is this hour definitely isn't gonna cut it the way
I would like it. I love that. And one last thing,
I was thinking about this and I told Jordan back
then I was thinking about doing this. I'm actually thinking
about hugging a tree. I'm that desperate right now.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Read I Gotta I Gotta chapter in my book.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Read it. I read it. I already read it, and
it was like I was like, what five or six minutes?
You know the tree? He said, the New York trees
are different from the other trees. I'm still trying to
find the tree.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Chapter is called tree Hugged the block, Get connected with nature,
and we don't have to do another show for you.
It might have to be called like, I don't want
to call it dating while desperate, because you're not desperate yet.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
No, first you said you're desperate. Just now you said
you were desperate, desperate.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Desperate, for peace, peace, Oh damn fault. Just be clear
I'm single, because well I'm still married, and integrity wise,
this sounds really silly.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
What about dating while marriage?

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Integrity wise? I should do that integrity wise. I just
can't do it while I'm legally like in my head,
I'm like maried. And then even if you go on
a date, it's like, yeah, I'm married, but I'm separated
and I'm gonna go No.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
A lot of people go to this. I was. I
just did Pastor Kean's conference last weekend. He has a
conference called The Crowd Conference, and him and Shannie were
on stage having this conversation. He felt the same way.
He felt the same exact way because he was separated.
But you know, he knew perception wise, dating somebody like
Shannie O'Neil, he didn't want people to look at her

(01:04:24):
away and say, oh, she's dating this married man. But
he was going through a separation, and so I don't
if I if I'm fucking this stuff, I'm sorry passed
the keyon, But I thought I heard him say he
couldn't live like that. He still had to just he
had to go connect with he had to go connect
with Shanni you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Oh, wait, he couldn't live like what he he connected
with her? Why he was so married? No, No, I don't
think they He obviously didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Yeah, I just think that he didn't let the fact
of everybody's perception.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
It's not even about the person.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Maybe I'm getting that wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
No, it's not about the perception. I don't care because
my husband fully admits he's a he's a superhore. But
I'm it's not the perception at this point. Trust me,
He's done enough to blow up any type of secrecy.
But I'm saying that integrity wise. I know in my
mind I made a commitment, right, So I'm like, yo,
let me just.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
But you're going through a separation. If I'm not mistaking,
patter Keyon said he did want He wanted to wait
because he didn't want people to think that he was
that that that he was cheating on his wife and
Shawnie was messing up a happy home. If I'm getting
that wrong, I'm sorry, pator Keyon, but it sounds very
similar to me.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
So I think we should.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Do dating while I'm married with Colleen and have her
in here interviewing potential candidates.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Oh, that's hilarious right to this person, they said.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Because there's no better reference check than putting somebody out
there publicly, because not even like, oh no, I know
him going I dated him. Now that people will be
hitting you up. They can't hide hilarious dating while I
married Dolly.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
No, no, let's not. But I will say the reason
why I want to hug the tree and stuff is
because I do feel. And I was telling Jordan, it's
the older I get, the more I am driven towards
happiness or I mean peace over happiness. I could care
less about a high when I know the low can
come around the corner. I just give me a flat line.
And I used to never be like that. So when

(01:06:17):
I saw the tree hugging, Dolly made me do grounded
because I ran away to her house. At one point
I short it and she was like, take off your shoes,
go in the yard and walk in the grass. And
I was like, okay, Dolly, I'm saying I did it,
but I'm like, maybe we could try a tree huggin.
I'm starting to get into like meditating. Well I haven't started.
I've been reading books about meditation. I'm that desperate to

(01:06:39):
do those things. Not day. I think I deserve a
nice break of being single. But we can play the
dating show if you want.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
You're hilarious. Thank you so much for your time. I bagged, borrowed, stealed,
harassed your entire team to the point that Dolly called
me and said, if you want shar just call me
and asked me when you're ready. And I did it
and she delivered, and I was literally like, oh, she
did it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Thank you first, I get to keep you get to
keep it all right.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Peace out, guys.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
For more eating while broke from iHeartRadio and The Black Effect,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.