Black Power vs. Black Excellence

We've all heard the terms "Black excellence" and "Black power", but what is the difference between the two? In this episode, Khadeen, Devale, Josh, Matt and Tribble discuss it. What do you think? Watch the full video version early on Patreon! Go to https://Patreon.com/EllisEverAfter to see the After Show and more exclusive Ellis Ever After video content. And find us on social media at @EllisEverAfterPodcast, @khadeniam and @iamdevale, @joshua_dwain @_matt.ellis, @tribbzthecool. And if you’re listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to rate, review and subscribe. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I gotta be honest, babe. Sometimes I struggle with pushing
black excellence because I don't want to push in a
way that seems like I'm trying to assimilate to whiteness.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
M you see what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
You might have to elaborate on that with me. When
I think about black excellence and black power, I just
feel like we need to keep creating more spaces and
arenas to celebrate ourselves so we don't have to feel
like we need to assimilate.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Dead Ass. It all started with real talk, unfiltered, honest,
and straight from the heart. Since then, we've gone on
to become Webby Award winning podcasters in New York Times
bestselling authors.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Dead Ass was more than a podcast for us. It
was about our growth, a place where we could be vulnerable, be.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Raw, orse, but most apportantly be us.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
But as we know, life keeps evolving and so do we,
and through it all, one thing has never changed.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
This is.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Because we got a lot to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Story time. The funny thing is Tripple was just like, YO,
tell us a story about the time you realize the
difference between black power and black excellence, And I knew
exactly where to go. I was coaching at Aviator at
the time, and we had a couple of athletes who
were part of the group. It was about forty guys

(01:24):
in our college group, and we had two guys who
were not black. And one time the dude came. I
don't want to say his name because people go back
and look. He came to workout, was late, and I'm
screaming and balking and I'm just like, yo, like you
got to be on time. He's not saying nothing because

(01:45):
they know that I don't deal with the excuses. Right
The next day, the whole group was late, and I
got pessed at what the fuck is going on? All
thirty of them kids, the black kids, right well, almost
forty went to pick the one white kid up from

(02:06):
the bus stop because he had issues with the bust
at the bus stop the day before, which is why
he was late. All of my college kids, all of
them black kids, went to go pick that white kid up,
and they pressed whoever was at the bus stop, and
then they came and they were all late, and they
all ran together because they knew they was late. So
and part of the reason why I love them kids too,

(02:28):
My prototype kids y'all know who y'all are. I love
y'all to death. Part of the reason why I said
black power versus Black excellence is because although it was
excellent that those guys all stayed together to help this
one white kid, right, what bothered me is that it
was a group of black kids that was giving the
white kid a problem to begin And that's what showed
the power of all of these black men going to

(02:49):
stand up and say, yo, like, in this moment, he
one of us. He and this is the funny part.
This is the funny part. I'll never forget this. I'm
gonna say this one kid name, his name is Rogers.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Everybody knows, you know, Roger.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
And Roger kept saying, we don't give a fuck if
he's white. If he late, we all got to run.
So since we all got a run, we fucking y'all
up and he late, and I was like, y'all was
really it was like, yo, we're not running because he late.
And they all banded together. But the problem, the reason
why I said it wasn't black excellence because they was
giving the white boar problem just for being white, and

(03:23):
that part of Brooklyn to get to where his workout was.
I wouldn't call that black excellence, because that's the things
we fought against in this country, not feeling accepted or
not feeling like we can go anywhere, and here we
made someone else feel that way. And it took thirty
to forty young black brothers in college to go there
and be like, yo, we're not doing this right.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
I think there's an excellence in that they were able
to band together said listen, we're not doing that and
collectively either we're all gonna run or we're all not
gonna run, because I think you did you make him run?
If they were they coming back with him going to
defend him.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
I didn't. And now here's the funny part. I didn't
know why they were all late when they came back.
So when they all came in late, I said, nobody,
say nothing to me. Get on the fucking line.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
The lines they were prepared.

Speaker 5 (04:04):
They were prepared them.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yes. And the funny thing is I didn't call it
black excellence, even though it is excellence, because it came
from a bad spot, from a bunch of young blackies.
But it also showed the power of numbers and the
fact that they were able to go back into their
own community and be like, yo, we're not doing this.
But there was powering that not just excellence, but also power.
There's power and telling other people to stand down. So

(04:28):
that's why I chose black.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
But how to treat you?

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Absolutely, karaoke time, karaoke time. I couldn't pick a song.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
It's several. I feel like that comes to mind when
you think about black power.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
So I decided to kind of mix too. Okay, one
of course, shout out to Hove and it's just the beginning.
Everybody knows it's black excellency, black legacy, legacy, legacy, black excellency.
But I'm gonna go right into a fight power.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
That's I see you dressed for the occasion to come.
I missed the today, I missed the look at me
looking like a I don't know what I look like
right now.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
I'm have to say this ain't nothing to do with
black excellency of black power. But you've been losing weight
and working out and you're looking great.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
This thing is like like it's just one thing.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
It's one thing, and it's swallowing me up right now.
It's given me a little bit of comfort as I'm
still trying to get well from me and sick. But yeah,
I needed warm and fuzzy. It's giving warm and fuzzy,
isn't it. Do I look warm and fuzzy?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
It's one thing. And when you walk by me, that
thing in the back was.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Still going like this, Well she ain't lost that.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Let's take a break and we'll be back with the
whole gang.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
Indeed, all right, y'all were back. One thing I'm gonna
do is cut up in between breaks. We over here
paying bills and they're over here making fun of me.
So josh, what I look like today?

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Goog go?

Speaker 3 (06:03):
As long as they're gluten free, thanks, then, oh my god,
truth will take me out of my miserbel who we
got for today? Uh?

Speaker 6 (06:18):
Firstdeen look like she.

Speaker 7 (06:23):
Was like, no, i'mnna leave you alone.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Listen underneath this, Okay, this this garment, this frock. I'm
coming for all the BBO allegations this summer, y'all. I've
been in the gym. I'm coming for the allegations period.
That's the fact I'm getting it together, y'all.

Speaker 7 (06:40):
Right, I'm right.

Speaker 6 (06:41):
I don't know if I want to sabotage or not,
because people be asking could.

Speaker 7 (06:45):
Get a b bl Oh my god.

Speaker 6 (06:47):
But this summer, I might be like, I don't know, girl.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
It's been around me the longest and most consistently. I
say you well other than you, But people will probably
automatically assume that my husband would like keep my dark secrets. Matt,
I feel like sees me the most. Have you ever
seen me in recovery from anything other than the It
was that one day.

Speaker 6 (07:17):
I've been seeing you working out. When I go to
the gym, I think Kadeen. When I get tired, I'll
be like, Kadean.

Speaker 7 (07:23):
Do you really do?

Speaker 6 (07:24):
I love that because every time I look in the mirror,
I don't see Kadeen.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
That's triple.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Every day everything she does, what is kadem She.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Will like, you ain't bodied up over there? You gonna
do is twenty minutes? If you walk twenty minutes every day,
be straight, I'm gonna do that.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
You give me three.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
You don't work out every day?

Speaker 3 (07:44):
No?

Speaker 7 (07:45):
I work out like three times a week.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
I tried to mean, that's not bad.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Average American does not work out. Ever, Yeah, the average American,
I believe it does not.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
That's what America looks like the way they look.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Matter of fact, This has nothing to do with this,
but I do want to say this, right. A study
show that the average American child can't do one pull
up right. The average American child does not sweat enough
to rid itself of any of the purities in its
body for it to be a normal child. So think
about where children will be twenty years from now, living
the way Americans live. Think about it, Brook eating all

(08:22):
of the process, Cookie, I'm probably gonna be obese to.

Speaker 6 (08:30):
Then, all right, but I did see something really exciting
that I can wait to talk to you about. The
varn Nell Hill spin off series, Let's Go Yo, Man Can.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Hollywood Swinging is my favorite episode that finally went to Hollywood.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
God Man Can Boy.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
It was a two part episode too, so that made
a great too. Is he playing it?

Speaker 6 (09:02):
Tommy Davidson is starring in it, And it sounds like
it's gonna be like thirty Rock, So it's gonna be
focusing on the behind the scenes of the Varndale Hills
show and how he's trying to stay relevant after so
many years on the air.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
It sounds like it's gonna be really good and it's
kind of documentary, is right.

Speaker 6 (09:18):
It sounds like it might be either documentary or like
thirty Rock wasn't documentary, but it did have like since
it was behind the scenes, it kind of gave like
real life field.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
My opinion, I'm tired of reboots. I'm gonna be honest
to reboots. I feel like Tommy Davison was such a
force in the nineties. I wish they would have given
him his time when he was at like the peak,
like Tommy Davison during that time and did Booty Call
with Jamie Fox was great, and that he was on Martin.

(09:49):
I just wish that they would have gave it his
time twenty years ago.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
That's all I wish.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
I mean, I'm probably gonna tune in because I love,
you know, Tommy Davison. Yeah, but I just wish it
twenty five years ago.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
I hear, I got no app today.

Speaker 4 (10:04):
No, I like the Fresh Prince.

Speaker 7 (10:05):
Sorry, y'all.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
Well, I for when I'm looking forward to it. I
do like that character, Varnel Hill character. I think it
was great, and I'm looking forward to see who he
has coming on the show, because if it's if it's
a spin off of his character, his actual character being
a TV host or that daytime or night time.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
He's a nighttime TV host.

Speaker 4 (10:30):
He has to have guests, and hopefully they're incorporating that
into the show. I'm looking forward to the possibilities of it.
Tommy Davison is always a good time pause.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Jimmy Davison is a legend. Bro.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, for sure, hope you have jobs on the show.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
And Martin comes down this.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
I want Martin to be on the show. That's one
of the.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Most classic TV moments, Bro. I feel you though, Gosh,
that would actually be dope because the nostalgia of the
guests and stuff will be Yeah, triple what you got
ready now, I'm ready for it.

Speaker 6 (11:04):
I like that it's an extension of the Martin universe.
I think it's going to be different, not really a reboot,
because it's not. He wasn't a regular character. He was
on two episodes, so this is like an extension that
really has nothing to do with the show so much.

Speaker 7 (11:17):
And then I want him to do that. The one
thing I do want.

Speaker 6 (11:22):
Him to do from the Martin Show is say take
the children.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Is man, yo, let us wrong with us.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
With Tommy Davis him. Did y'all seeing Martin break character?

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Absolutely was that even on the sides I just want
to know now, don't know. There was no script. I'm
sure all was improvsh.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Is delicious, Martin lost Tom Davis.

Speaker 4 (12:07):
That was the goal, though, I saw in a recent interview.
The goal was to break the Martin on that show,
like anybody we had, whether it was the cast or
they wanted to break him. Yeah, because he was a
kid at that point. Yeah, so I get it. Specifically
Martin or not or other they want to break.

Speaker 6 (12:24):
They want to break because he would always break that.
He was always funny and they had to kind of
learn how to be funny. You can tell like Tacha Campbell, No,
she didn't get funny to like season three.

Speaker 4 (12:36):
Yea, yeah, she admits to it.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
She did.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
She was like sort of passive.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yeah. She would have let Martin say stuff to her
until it was like YO, say something back and she
would come back with us.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Right, and then I feel like she evolved into kind
of yeah, definitely, and that's what I kind of was, like,
I don't know, girl over the top after Yeah, it
was a little bit too to Martin. Like Martin.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
That's another one of my favorite episodes.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
We got the kids saying it that time. We took
them to Arizona.

Speaker 7 (13:02):
It was such a thing.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
It's the Martin Reunion episode, right, Well, Martin, it was
black excellence and he was black power.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
That was a fact. That is a fact.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
Oh my goodness, think about all this. It comes back
in the day. I think they all were exhibiting a
level of black excellence and power.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
If you go back to those times, watch how so
many of those artists at the time wore black college.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, a different world.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
It was part of the movement.

Speaker 6 (13:36):
Martin always had like negro league jersey, which I thought
it was really bring in.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
Black college and university sweaters.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
And all that.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
It's the stuff that you realize when you watched this
stuff years later. You weren't really thinking about that in
that moment as kids. He was just like, you know,
but yeah, pretty dope, we'll.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Be I next, I got an opera? Was that real quick?

Speaker 4 (13:55):
And goes to the topic what's that is Bill Cosby
black power and black excellence as well?

Speaker 6 (14:02):
I think at a certain time he was black excellence
and he used his he created black power because of
his stature. I think it's unfortunate that he's also a perverb.

Speaker 7 (14:15):
But can be true.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
Yeah, and not even talking about that but he also
there were other people who were coming up during that time,
artists like rap artists and all that. He was opposed
to a lot of those vernacular their speech, with how
they how they spoke.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
So did you see his arguments, Well, they just showed
an interview with him talking about how purposeful he was
with NBC. But he used to have a psychologist on set,
and they would say he told them he never wanted
black people to be in a negative light on his
TV show, So when they wrote things and they scripted
things out, they had a psychologist on set to say

(14:52):
whether or not this would be perceived by black people
in a negative light. Really, yes, he was that deliberate.
Bill Cosby was about making sure that people were seen
in the way that they had never been seen before.
And this goes to what Trouble was saying the last time.
He wanted black people to see themselves as attorneys and doctors,
but not as black attorneys and doctors. He made it

(15:13):
very clear that I don't want to be known as
a black comedian as the black sitcom. He's like, I
want to be known as the standard for sitcoms that
happens to be black.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
Which then in turn had people thinking that this was
like not realistic, right.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
But that's what life and that's the thing that's his life.
If you're living at a certain level of affluence and
you are used to having a finer things in life
as a black man, no matter what environment you're in,
and then now you have people talk to you about like, well,
you're just a good black actor. Yeah, he's just good.
I'm going to want to create something that represents what

(15:48):
I am and as opposed to what the world says
I should be. That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Well, did you also know that the Cosby Show wasn't
his first sitcom? He had a sitcom before that called
Cosby that Fait Miserable.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Talked about it.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
Too, Cosby, which came after on CBS or something like
that Cosby Show.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
And then what was when you said the one before
that was just called Cosby? Okay, that was just called
Cosby and it was it failed miserably and he said
it was because he allowed the studios to tell him
how he was going to be received on TV, and
when it failed, he was just like, I'm never listening
to them again. And then he started to promote his
own I mean, he had little Bill it wasn't just
a Cosby show. He had a bunch of which is

(16:34):
I hate saying this because people always equate one with
the other. But when I look at what I want
to do as a creator, I often look at Bill Cosby. Right.
Not only did he have a TV show, he was
also doing films like Ghost Dad. He also had Little Bill.
He had so many different mediums and projects that wasn't
around the Cosby show that showed black people in a
positive light but also talked about black history. I want

(16:55):
to do the same thing with us and the yellisis
a lot of times when you say you want to
do something like people would be like what you want
to and I'm like, why does it have to go there? Right?
When we're talking about content and what he did for
that aspect.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
I even think about the way they spoke on the show,
like did you ever notice like the way they were
pronounced certain words like mature and you know there were
certain words that they wouldn't just they were very It
was almost like they studied voice addiction when they were speaking.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
On the show, and he was sence I know you're
talking about and play.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
And even just and even Felicia rashat like the way
they spoke was very very so you think we had
the episode on code switching and like how to speak properly,
And I feel like I even think I remember hearing
at one point that he was also very invested in
the other actors, like the children, so people who played
Vanessa and Theo.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
And Rudy and her. She was like, yo, I'm not
trying to beat this version of me right exactly.

Speaker 3 (17:52):
So I can see when he got pushed back, she's
not doing it right. She wasn't signing up to that.
But I did see. I can see how in creating
this stand of excellence that he saw for his show
and for the people involved in his show, how probably
those things like a psychologist or maybe somebody even for
speech was involved in the process.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (18:11):
Yeah, I feel like.

Speaker 6 (18:14):
It was a powerful show to see the Huxtable family
and the light that they were in. But however, like
you said, black people are not a monolith, and so
black people who didn't have that experience because that type
of family, that type of black family does exist where
there's generations of successful, college educated black people who speak
properly and have professional jobs and you know, have money

(18:37):
and can afford to have five kids. But then there's
also black people who are poor and they live in
the hood and they talk a different way, and so
they growing up, Yeah, they think it's married. Even to
see a married black couple like I have. My mom
has nine sisters, two brothers, and one of my mom's sisters,

(18:57):
my aunt be. She was married to Uncle Phil and
we used to call them the Huxtables because he did
wear sweaters, he was a teacher, they had a house,
and it was not something that was like normal in
our family, right right, right, And so still even though
you want, you know this, this certain type of blackness
to be seen in a certain light for black people

(19:19):
to aspire to, sometimes it can make black people feel othered.
And I think that is kind of what the idea
of black excellence can do.

Speaker 7 (19:29):
Instead of empowering people.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Makes them feel powerless. Yes, yeah, that's insane. I think
about how that's a really good point triple. And I
think about people make the correlation with Divalanna all the
time and say we're like the new age Huxtables or
like our families like the cause we show because I
guess we're what we portray, which is just how real
life to people is essentially something that a lot of
people aren't accustomed to, maybe not accustomed to seeing someone

(19:52):
be together, or two people be together from a young
age to develop into who we are today, or you know,
still being madly in love with each other, or having
parents on both sides who are still married. Like those
are anominly situations to some people. Were to us, it's
our norm. But I never thought about that idea of
excellence making others feel powerless.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
In all honesty, my brother's second baby mother did tell
my brother like, y'all the fucking Ellis, y'all the fucking huxtables,
Your brother married, your parents married, her parents married, And
I was like, just the fact that we were married
and still married in his second baby's mother's eyes, that
was like I never seen that, Like that shit ain't real.

(20:30):
And I had to start taking into account how serious
that is too. Because I mentored over four hundred, over
four hundred athletes over ten years, seventy five percent of
those athletes came from single parent homes. That is a fact.
That's not something I can like, I'm making up over
four hundred athletes, over three hundred of them were only moms.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
I just want to say this. Don't ever feel any
sort of way because it's different. The fact that you
guys are not the norm doesn't mean that whatever is
happening outside of your family it should be expected, right
like because of whatever happened to prison, industrial conpplexy and

(21:09):
drugs and you know, on education and all that. Because
people are not haven't been together for so long, or
our community doesn't have two parent households. And because she
pointed out to you doesn't necessarily make that abnormal. You
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
I know what you mean. Because they haven't seen it
doesn't mean this abnormal.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
It's a weird thing to hear that that you found
it surprising because it's just the world.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
I think. No, I said, I found it surprising because
think about it, we come from where we come from.
I only saw my mom and dad. Then I only
saw my grandparents. The only broken family I saw was
my mom's mom, who ended up getting remarried. So in
my normal, everybody got married. Yeah, the aspiration was and

(21:57):
that was for me. And then I had to step
out of that and get in the real world and
realized that seventy five percent of the kids that I
trained had a different lifestyle. So then I had to say, oh,
I in my demographic with these kids, I'm the anomaly.
So I can't make my lifestyle like, for example, your
lifestyle can't be considered black excellence. Yeah, if most of
the people in that same demographic are doing something difference,

(22:19):
now they feel slighted, like shit, I didn't get Like,
for example, if you're a woman, no one wanted to
marry me, am I not excellent. If you're a man,
if you couldn't find a woman too married him, I'm
not excellent. If you a child, if my kids, I
can understand where Tripp's coming from, but I understand it's exposure.

Speaker 4 (22:33):
Bro. I just think it's exposure. Like my parents married
for forty something years forty three years next month, and
then their friends have also been married. I don't think
my parents really have divorced friends, like all of their
friends are married.

Speaker 6 (22:51):
That's what you're saying, married parents, Your parents are not
going to have married friends, like I grew up with.
My dad didn't get married until I was fourteen, so
my mom had friends who were working mothers who didn't
have husbands. And so it's not about it being normal
or abnormal. It's about you having the perspective that other

(23:11):
things exist. You're putting for something, it doesn't mean that
somebody is going to receive it in the same way
that you think that it will be received. Even if
my mom did have a married couple that she brought around,
it would still be like that is crazy.

Speaker 7 (23:26):
It wouldn't be like you know what I mean, It
would be like.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Okay, that's possible.

Speaker 6 (23:30):
Yeah, it wouldn't be like that's now normal. It's just
a different perspective.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, I mean, And ultimately, all that glitters is not gold,
right because you have the standard of excellence that we say, oh,
it's these married couples, and we know several of them
who are all fucking miserable, who are all miserable and
within their own marriage that we deem excellent. They're all
feeling powerless because they can't get out of a situation
that they're ultimately wanted to be. But then I see
people who are single moms who are thriving, doing well,

(23:54):
children successful. That's black excellence in itself too. That's the
power that these single have given their their their sons.
You know, for example, a couple couple of mothers who
we know who are doing really amazing things with their children,
you know, and single dads too. There's excellence in that
and power in that.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
So let me ask a question, do y'all do y'all?
How we define black excellence pretty much is problematic because
it's not monolithic. We have to change what black excellence
looks like. What about how we define black power though?

Speaker 7 (24:23):
Like?

Speaker 1 (24:23):
What is what is the difference between black excellence and
black power? I know what my example of black and
in my mind when I think about black power, Well,
let me start with black excellence. Black excellence is a representation, right,
this is what black excellence is supposed to be. Everybody
looks at it and says, boom, that's black excellence. Black power

(24:43):
is more of an action word, like what are we
doing to move a market? For example? Just an easy example,
the Montgomery the Montgomery bus boycott. That to me was
an example of black power. Now, I also feel that
black power is black excellence. But I also don't feel
like black excellence is always black power.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
You don't always feel like excellent, Okay, And.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
I'll give you why. Black excellence to me is an image, right.
For example, example, that image is Barack and Michelle Obama,
black men, black women, both marry, both attorneys, two beautiful
daughters president of the United States. But if we go
back to what Trible said, right, what if you're a
single mom and you can't relate to that vision of

(25:24):
black excellence and you feel powerwerless? Right, So that vision
of black excellence doesn't relate to someone. Black power, regardless,
relates to everybody. Every black person looks at the Montgomery
bus boycott and feels powerful. No one looks at that
and says I feel powerless because I can't relate to that.
That to me is the difference between black power and

(25:46):
Black excellence. Black excellence is more like an adjective, It
describes something. Black power is more like a verb, like
a movement, a movement. That's how I see.

Speaker 6 (25:56):
I'm glad you brought up the Montgomery boycott specifically because
that's a really great, great, great example about what is
problematic about black excellence in terms of black power.

Speaker 7 (26:06):
So I do agree.

Speaker 6 (26:07):
Black excellence is more individual focused and black power is
about the collective.

Speaker 7 (26:12):
Now, the way that.

Speaker 6 (26:13):
The Montgomery Boycott's bus boycott started is because a fifteen
year old pregnant girl named claudeke Covin sat down on
the bus, but because she was fifteen and pregnant and unmarried.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
She couldn't be.

Speaker 6 (26:25):
They made Rosa Parks the face of that situation, which
Rosa Parks could be seen as black and excellent because
she's light skinned, she's an adult, she's married, and claudiak
Covin could not, even though it shouldn't matter because the
message of the boycott would be the same.

Speaker 7 (26:46):
We are not going to sit in the back of
the bus.

Speaker 6 (26:48):
Are they saying that because she had she she's unmarried
and pregnant, she's not excellent and therefore she's not good
enough to protect it.

Speaker 7 (26:57):
Yeah, she can sen her ass on.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
The back of the bus because she had a baby
out she.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Was finding exactly according to whose standards?

Speaker 7 (27:04):
Those were our standards exactly. So I feel like.

Speaker 6 (27:09):
That's that is the problem, because black power is about
the collective. Like during the Black Lives Matter movement when
George Floyd was murdered, and we we all now we
get upset when people bring up the fact that George
Floyd was a criminal or he was on drugs. He
didn't deserve to be strangled, And that is black power.
That is every black person, no matter what your stature

(27:30):
is in life, saying that no matter what his stature
is in life, he doesn't deserve to be murdered.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Let me explain something to you. I want wholeheartedly to
argue with you right now.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
He came out with.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
For everybody today.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
I said, Wade, the spirit of areas wants to come out.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yo. It's so bad. But nah, I feel you like
that's that is the perfect definition. Black excellence speaks to
a personal preference. It's very idealistic, and it's very like picturesque. Yes,
black power don't hold no bars. We don't give a
fuck who the person is. We gotta defend. We don't
care how flawed they are. Black power is defending what's right, what's.

Speaker 7 (28:21):
Just so not.

Speaker 3 (28:22):
My question is are there any spaces where black excellence
and black power can coexist?

Speaker 4 (28:28):
So they need to exist? Can you name?

Speaker 7 (28:31):
Can you name an example?

Speaker 6 (28:32):
Because I can name examples where they can, but they
have not.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
Because I think.

Speaker 6 (28:38):
That being black excellence is black exceptionalism. And we were
talking about code switching, and I feel like those people,
those people who are considering themselves black and excellent, they've
had to do things to distance themselves from blackness in
a way that is not excellent.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
I agree.

Speaker 6 (28:58):
So therefore they can't really standing with the collective because
they're distancing themselves from these other black people. They think
if these black people would just be excellent, then we
could all. Instead of saying it doesn't matter where you
are in life, we can all still. So I haven't
seen it happen. I think that it could, but I
don't see.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
The theory it should.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
It should should be a.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
A perfect example, right, we've just seen it.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
There are certain entertainers and actors who only do pr
and marketing with white outlets. I'm not gonna out them
or give them any credence, but we know who they are.
It's certain people.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
You only see them on certain platforms.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Right. Athletes too, just certain athletes who just do that.
When we watched Michael b and Ryan Coogler do every
podcast from the smallest black podcast to the largest USA
Today to variety, that's an example of black power and
black excellence. We watched Ryan Coogler stand up there in
his normal set and speak excellently about the frames of

(30:03):
the different millimeter cameras. That's black power and that's black excellence.
Because he never tried to change who he was. I
am exactly authentically myself, and I'm doing it at a
high level. That's excellence and power because no one, no
black person in that moment didn't feel seen, you know
what I'm saying, which not for nothing. Remember when the
after show Josh said Deval will admit when he figured something.

(30:28):
I went upstairs, right, and I was thinking about our debate.
I'm gonna tell you why I think Tripple was right.
When you have a black person that stands up there
in their blackness right and speaks excellently about anything, it
then changes the perspective of what excellence is. And that's
what you were saying. Yeah, And the fact that he
doesn't have to change his vernacular at all, and people

(30:51):
could just be like, man, that man is smart, even
though he sounded like he from Oakland, is black excellence
and black power. And I feel like Ryan stood in
that because even in hearing him speak, you can tell
he's not as comfortable speaking in front of people, but
he chose to still do that the same way him
and Michael Be chose to do every outlet from.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Variety to this, Like he's on podcasts of people that have.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
One hundred and fifty follows. That to me is black
pound black excellence, Like I got to shout them them
brothers out, and they're not the first to do that
at all. To be honest, Easter Ray, if I'm being honest,
is the one who coined that I am going to
speak to she said it.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
That's black pound want black excellence. Is the crazy part
black people killing Easter Ray on the internet right now
talking about her Black Mirror episode.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Oh, I didn't see the Black Man? What was about?
Did you see it?

Speaker 1 (31:45):
You have to watch it. I don't want to ruin
it for people.

Speaker 7 (31:47):
I love to watch it, and I I actually.

Speaker 6 (31:52):
Predicted that it was going to happen and my gay self, No,
I just predicted that she was gonna be doing some
gay ship.

Speaker 4 (32:02):
Gar. I didn't even see.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
That episode she was gay. I thought the episode was brilliant.
I watched it with Tristan Okay, I can understand why
people are confused in the episode, she's not she becomes
someone else and she's not supposed to know anything that's
going on in the fucking episode, So it seems like

(32:24):
she's underware and awkward, and all people kept saying online
was like, she's so awkward and unaware, she has no
idea what's going on.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
That was the point the people that don't watch Her
mirror making comments like, you watch Black Mirror, you understand
those worlds are not the worlds that we currently live in. Yes,
and she also her YouTube was an awkward black girl,
wasn't it? Like that's I think. I think I've seen
her in every film and I think she's awkward.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
A lot of people like to know her exactly where
they saw her first. She's evolved as a creator, and
I think sometimes when people don't get the concept of art,
they try to keep them back to where they was.
This is Black Mirror. This ain't insecure. She's not being
Eastern race. She's a whole another character. Like it's a
different thing, but that.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
Intelligence, Yes, that is right.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
No, seriously, it is because like Josha, there's people who
don't watch Black Mirror who are commenting, creating whole opinion pieces,
and it's like, you don't even watch the show to
know what it is.

Speaker 6 (33:17):
Do you also think that maybe like subconsciously, because Eaterray
was the only black person in that episode, I feel
like subconsciously, sometimes black people have a problem with something
and they don't know what it is or they don't
know how to express it, so they kind of lash
out because I'm like, maybe they felt uncomfortable with her
doing some gay shit, Maybe they felt uncomfortable with the

(33:38):
character she was playing, or that like there was no
other black people in there she was kissing a white lady.

Speaker 7 (33:43):
That could make them feel weird. They don't know that.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
I think so, and I do think that sometimes people
feel uncomfortable and they don't know what to do or say,
so the first thing they do is do what they
have control over, So they go online and they leave
opinions hoping for someone else to agree with them.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
That's how we have y'all, because you don't have to
have an opinion, especially when you haven't watched. Like if
there's a universe of a show that you don't typically
watch and then you watch one episode, it was like,
I didn't get it. You probably weren't supposed to get
it because you don't even know what the show is about.

Speaker 6 (34:12):
I think too, it is true that niggas just don't
be knowing what y'all talking about. That too, because they
were talking about Ray in terms of the movie One
of Them Days, which I just watched.

Speaker 7 (34:22):
It is so good. I loved it. But they're talking
about as if she.

Speaker 6 (34:25):
Wrote the movie. She did not write it. She produced it.
That means she paid for it to get made. Somebody
else wrote it. But they were saying, like, what is
isano about struggling and have to having to pay Her
parents are rich. I don't mean that she had money,
but she also talks about when she came up as
a filmmaker having to like having no money to make films.
It is a very expensive thing to do, and having

(34:47):
to ask her friends to work for free. If you
watch the original Awkward Black Girl, you could tell that
it's low budget.

Speaker 7 (34:52):
They had what they had, so she worked to get
it done.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Just because her parents have money, don't mean parents could
have easily said, yo, you got to figure this out.
I was about to say that.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
This is a moment we have money, you.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
Know, But I'm glad you brought that up. Trouble, because
that also is the thing that bothers me as we
talk about black excellence and black power, right, it's this
idea that black excellence is only associated with struggle.

Speaker 7 (35:23):
Well, I think it's the opposite.

Speaker 6 (35:25):
I feel like, like I was saying, people that feel
left out of that black excellence conversation, is black excellence.

Speaker 7 (35:31):
I don't think anybody can argue with that.

Speaker 6 (35:33):
But then people are thinking, well, she's black excellence because
her parents had money and she had more opportunity. That's
why she's able to get it, when I shouldn't be
talking about my experience.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
And that's what I'm saying. I feel like that's unfair
to say that this person has to go through this
struggle to have a black tag, to say this is.

Speaker 6 (35:50):
Black, to just be able to understand black people in
black life. I don't think that you have to necessarily
go through the same things. And then she didn't write
the movie.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
That's that's the big The biggest thing is she didn't
write the movie. The same way people was asking me, like,
why you make the tickets for a fell a little
so expensive question?

Speaker 3 (36:11):
Blown argument with somebody that he knows about that, and
it went completely left and I was like that I
did not set the ticket prices. We had nothing to
do with the ticket prices, y'all. We don't set that
as producer.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
But but but that's the point that you niggas don't
be knowing, they don't know how to just go online
and say things. And there's a whole bunch of other
niggas who don't.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Know ship will pull a piggyback on it.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
And before I say, niggas to do that, like only
black people do that. No, if you if you only
follow the shade room, you only hear black news.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Go to other rooms, go to the Indian shade room
or the Asian shade room. They be in there getting
on each other too. Right, this is gonna be funny, right,
Okay funny?

Speaker 3 (36:51):
Is it really gonna be funny to vout somebody gonna
be offended?

Speaker 1 (36:53):
No, it's actually gonna be fun things somebody somebody might
be somebody might be a fan.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
But I don't give a fuck. I'm gonna say what
I say anyway.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Right in my group chats, Right, there's a bunch of
young black dudes who are all like in their late
twenties or thirties, all my prototype kids, right, and they
constantly kept saying to me, like black people are the
only people that do this. Black people are the only
people that do this, right, And then we had gotten
to the argument about black women and black men, and
they were like, black women are the only women on
the internet talking about black men. So at that point

(37:24):
I chose to introduce them to different parts of the
digital space. You only follow neighborhood Talk, you only follow
the Shade Room, so you only hear black women's opinions.
So I started sharing with them all these different opinions
from all these different women from different cultures, and it
sounded exactly the same. And I said, this is the point, y'all.
What you read, what you listen to, your algorithm is

(37:46):
going to keep sending that to you. So your algorithm
is only sending you stuff like the Shade Room and
neighborhood Talk, so you feel that only black people are
speaking about these things, when in reality, the whole world
is having the same converse. And you're upset at black
women because those are the women you frequent, same thing
with black women. You upset a black men because black

(38:06):
men are the only ones saying this. No no, no, no no.
Go to them. Go to the Asian Shade Room and
watch how they talk about Asian man.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Is the Asian Shade Room is I don't know.

Speaker 4 (38:16):
I'm gonna keep my mouth.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Shut but but you understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
I get what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
What you're saying like we we also as black people,
if we want to talk about what black excellence is
and what black power is, we have to expand our perspective, right,
That's what Josh.

Speaker 5 (38:30):
Was saying into saying, Yeah, like you can't own you
can't only watch the Shade Room and then say to
me all black women anything.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
I don't know your opinion doesn't matter to me at
all at this point. Like if you look at someone's
homepage on the Instagram, that tells you where their mind
is most of the time.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
So I was as the conversation is going, I even
thought about the conversation that we had on the Code
Switching episode where we talked about the oscars, right, and
we said that they're just out here, you know, voting
off vibes. And we have always aspired to I think
in generalist people, if the standard of excellence within film
is to get an Oscar, we all black people included

(39:10):
aspire to that as actors. Right, So when talking about
black excellence and Black power and spaces and arenas that
we have now curated for ourself to celebrate each other.
Where are those spaces and what do they look like? So,
for example, what came to mind for me was essence
Black Women in Hollywood. That's a space that I've been

(39:30):
invited to where I go because sometimes you need to
be in a space where you feel celebrated amongst your peers.
You can aspire and be inspired, you can kind of
get a recharge and a reset in a forum that
you know has been specifically designed to celebrate the excellence
but also the power behind being in numbers of women

(39:53):
who are like minded and doing the things that you
want to do or have done, or aspire to do.
So we have like the Black and since Black Women
in Hollywood, I was just at to accelerate her conference
in Miami. So what are other spaces that you think
that we are now saying? You know what, we need
to now create these spaces for ourselves because we can't
always rely on other folks to celebrate us and how

(40:16):
that ties into excellence in power We've.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
Been doing go ahead, no, no, good God, I think we've
been doing it for since since the establishment of us
in this country.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
I was want to say the same thing.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
We got the Divine nine, we got Black organizations that
celebrate us Jack and Jill, Jack and jail, Right, So,
I think I think there's always been us making space
for ourselves. That's why we got a black college and
universities like we we've recognized that we need space to
empower ourselves and become excellent at the same time.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Right.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
I think things like these, these organizations, are these these
exposed or yeah, conferences, conferences that you are just a
microcosm of that shared Black experience that we you know,
are subsectors. But I think we've always been doing it.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, I would agree with Josh. If you think about reconstruction.
There are so many black cities in black towns who
were built off of black excellence and black power. The
problem is history has shown us that when you build
something off black excellence and black power, they're gonna take it,
or they gonna drown it, or they gonna and burn it.
You see what I'm saying. Like you talk about Tols,
you think about Seneca Falls, There's so many examples of

(41:25):
black excellence and black power that has just been disintegrated
by white superiority. So I feel like in these last
fifty years, black people have decided to find their excellence
and their power and keep it quiet and keep it private.
For example, I work at Tyler Perry Studios. Right, this
is not a humble brag. I make more money than
ninety percent of the people working on Hollywood and they're white.

(41:46):
Because my employer is a black owner. He owns the land,
he owns the studios, he owns the content, He decides
who makes what money. I think we're finally reaching a
point where I no longer have to run to another
version of what I want to do right to be celebrated, and.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
I think those are spaces where we then celebrate like
this is a group of black affluent people, this is
a group of black students. So when you talked about
in the code switching episode, sometimes you don't want to
be known as the first black actor to do this,
or I am a black actor who did that, or
I'm a black father. It's like, how do we tow
the line between wanting to celebrate that in the excellence
and power that stands with it, but then how do

(42:26):
we also say, you know what, I want to be
seen as just a great man, just a great woman,
just a great father, just a great mother.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
So you' just gonna come here today and put your
journalism degree to work.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Because that's a good question, because.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Yeah, because like how do we coexist in that space?

Speaker 1 (42:39):
That's a good point. You know, I'm not gonna lie.
I struggle with that, like Trible, I told Go told Jackson.
I was like, yo. He was like, Dad, you're gonna
win in Oscar. You're gonna do all this other stuff.
And I was like, man, when I do win in Oscar,
I don't want them to be like he's the third
black person to win and that. And then I was like, nah,
I do want them to do that because other black
kids need to see that this is excellence. And then

(43:01):
I was struggling, like do I want them to announce
it that way to marginalize it, or do I want
them to say this is the first Oscar for Deval
he beat out so and so. And then it's just yeah,
you know, I'm struggling. I don't have the answer.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Think about what number one on the call sheet? Did
you guys watch that on Netflix?

Speaker 7 (43:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (43:19):
So it's great and it's two parts. They have a
couple gentlemen and then they have the women who spoke
about it. But particularly the episode with the women where
They were talking about Whoopy Goldberg and her being one
of the first and only, you know of her time
to win an oscar and there were only like three
or four black women in a span of decades.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
The first thing is Whoopy Goldberg was so talented, right,
she could do stand up, she could sing, she could write,
and she could act. She was so gifted they didn't
even know what to do with her. Right. Now, here's
the crazy part. All of the movies that Whoopy's done,
critically acclaimed and box office success were all roles written by,
written for and by white men, but either white women

(44:00):
on white men, and they didn't want to do it.
So Whoopy said, I'll do it, and.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
We people didn't want.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Eddie was.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
Well, she said that Patrick Swayze was the one who
wanted her. I love Patrick, you know me and Dirty Dancing, y'all.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
So yeah, your favorite, that's a good that's a good
movie to Eddie. I'm not Eddie Wesley Snie, that's my guy.
But she she talked about how even being excellent in
Hollywood during that time, there was no such thing as
black excellence. She was just excellent, and because there was
no space for black people, they didn't even know what

(44:35):
to do with her. And when I watched that, I
was just like wow. Like, but that's also the challenge
when you say black excellence, those people don't know what
to do with black excellent even when you say excellence,
because Whoopy was never celebrated as a black excellent person.
She was just excellent and they still didn't though. So
that's what leaves me kind of confused, Like how do

(44:56):
you exactly navigate it? Because I don't want them to
make all of my accomplish Smith's about black, but I
need all these black boys and black girls to be like, yo,
yeah he did that. You know what I'm saying. It's hard.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
It sort of talks to a point about when you
brought up Tyler Perry and your earnings based off of
him seeing you. I think it talks to black excellence
having to move hand in hand with black power, right
like I think I think we shouldn't separate the two.
I think, all right, being good at your craft and

(45:29):
being excellent at your craft needs to move with power,
like you need that power to be able to It
can't be ideology, yes, it can be ideology, exactly right.
It has to show its strength yea, and it has
to be able to move right. We're talking money talks, right,

(45:49):
Money's power.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Right.

Speaker 4 (45:51):
We live in a capitalist country. Right, politics on mean
nothing here. Fact right, the only thing that meat that
moves anything or anyone is the money money. Right, And
you can't be excellent without the money, because once you're excellent,
you're giving room for people to say, nah, we're gonna
go with somebody else. Forget that they're good. We can
get somebody else that's white, that's good. We can get

(46:12):
somebody else that does this in a in a completely
different way. Or we don't have to fund it. The
government doesn't have to fund what we do. But when
we move with power, we can more or less break barriers,
or we can we don't have to.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Get what you're saying. No, no, no, I get what you're saying,
and you articulated it perfectly. Like black excellence is an ideology.
Black power is an actual action item, like what are
we doing to move us forward? Black excellence is this idea? Right,
the idea is Barack Obama and Michelle.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
Or it comes after attaining some sort of power.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Move right, No, well, no, well, the excellence, you're right,
Excellence typically does come after, like.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
What deems excellent, what's deemed something excellent after going through
something process.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Just give our listeners like some actual tangible examples.

Speaker 6 (47:04):
I'll say I'll say this about I'll stick with the
Tyler Perry example, because again, black excellence is based on
your individual accomplishments.

Speaker 7 (47:15):
Black power is based on the collective. So, okay, Tyler Perry.

Speaker 6 (47:20):
It's not the money that makes him powerful. It's the
fact that he makes black content for Black people, by
black people. He continues to do that and he doesn't
have to answer to anybody else about what he makes.

Speaker 7 (47:34):
Yes, that's the power.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
And then he's deemed excellent because of that.

Speaker 6 (47:38):
Exactly, he's deemed excellent because he makes a bunch of
money he's able to do. You know, he built his
empire off making these black plays and black people going
to see him. That's his excellence. He makes good content
for the people that he makes it for. And now
he's empowered other black people, black artists, even black consumers
that there is space for them in the world of art, TV, movies, theater. Now,

(48:04):
one thing that I don't the one thing that I
hate about Beyonce is that she will go to the
Grammys every year sit in that audience and watch them
play in her face and not give her Artists of
the Year. And it's not And we always say, we
say every year that she has been nominated, they are
not giving it to her because she's black. Because as

(48:26):
a musician, regardless of you know, color, her art is
better than everybody else on the dock, especially the winner.
But she doesn't show up at the Soul Train Awards
or the BET Awards. And Beyonce has the power behind
the collective because she has made the art that we
enjoy and she has stayed true to her blackness that

(48:47):
black black Beyonce fans are dedicated to her. She has
and just fans overall are so dedicated to her that
she has the power to draw away viewership from the
Grammys if she were to show up at the Soul
Train Awards to say this is the that I care about,
and so that I feel like that she is not
using the power that she has, or black power or
empowering black spaces with the powers exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
I agree that I agree with you. I want to
add something so that you understand a little perspective of
what artists go through because me and Kadeen go through this, right,
and I'm not outing any black publications, right, but when
Kadeen and I have looked at numbers and everything, Kadeen
and I aren't celebrated amongst black publications at all. We

(49:33):
aren't celebrated. But let a white publication then celebrate us.
Then the black want to come back. Can Kadeen and
de Val come here? And it's like, wait a minute,
all those years when we were doing this just for
our people, you never cared enough about us. We've been
doing this podcast for.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Seventy six years, seven.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Years, sixteen seasons, won to Webbe Award, never been nominated
for an NAACP Image Award, right, never been talked about
by essence And this is It's not a play for
me to get nominated.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
I'm not asking for that because we don't do this
for that.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
But what I'm saying is is that numbers wise, we've
been better than a bunch of podcasts that they've had
nominated and win. When you look at metrics and the
things that we've talked about have been better, and we
haven't been recognized by those black publications. Let emmy come
and say, hey, we want to honor the Valenkadeen at
the Emmy Awards, right, and then we go those same
black people will be like, oh, they're gonna go to

(50:23):
the Emmys, but they don't go to the Soul Train Awards.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Well, y'all haven't celebrated us the whole grind.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Y'all wait intil white people celebrated us, and now you
want us to come back. So in the beginning it
was fuck me and my little podcast, but now white
people said, hey, we like this, and now I feel
like that I'm not gonna lie and I'm a part
of the BT family and I'm a part of all
of this stuff. But fuck them too, because we bet

(50:50):
we've had the number one show on television for seven years.
You've never seen any one of them women a show
led by five black women. None of them women ever
went up there to get in a war by Soul training,
none of them ever went to get an n Double
ACP Image Award. But let one of them women go
up there to go get a Grammy or go get
an Emmy. All of them same people are gonna be
being like, she didn't come down here with us, y'all

(51:11):
didn't y'all didn't recognize it. So when it comes to
Beyonce and them, I understand people's thought process, and you're
absolutely right. I just wonder what happened to that point
and if there was a point like that we felt
like because.

Speaker 6 (51:24):
I felt like that, I think Beyonce doesn't It's not
just the Black Awards that she doesn't go to. I
don't think she goes to like the A m As anymore.
Like I think the only award she really goes to
is the Grammys, Right.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
I don't wonder if they're voting off the vibes too,
or if it's just all of these This was crazy.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
I think the Sole Train Awards and the nuble A
CP Image Awards vote so vibes too, because there's no
way you gave other people awards and didn't think about us, Like,
are you fucking kidding me? I'm starting to get pissed.

Speaker 7 (51:55):
I wonder how it was.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
We don't.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
Tell what it is.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Yeah, I'm just being honest, right, I hear for the
last six years, there has been nobody who's done anything
as far as has done as much work when it
comes to fatherhood and representing a family man in a
black space on social media as much as I have
an inclusion started friends and my family.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
You started it.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Not once have I been nominated for Social Media Person
of the Year by the NAACP imas you was. Now,
I plan on continuing to go and do stuff when
I go get nominated by something else and then soul
train you want to come back? No, am I wrong
for saying y'all ignored me for all these years? But
finally the white publications said I was good, but now
you're am I wrong for that? At that point was.

Speaker 7 (52:41):
Me and my friends.

Speaker 6 (52:42):
We have this phrase that we use and it phrases
black Nigga Productions and I love black people. I love
black businesses.

Speaker 7 (52:52):
B MP, but BEMP black people.

Speaker 6 (52:56):
Sometimes they run businesses in a way that you're like,
fuck and BT, I feel like dust stuff like that,
Like they will like nominate the same people every year
instead of recognizing people who actually coming up in the
space I feel. So it feels to me like Black
Nika Productions, like who y'all got started two weeks.

Speaker 7 (53:17):
Ago on this Like you know what I'm saying, It
feels like.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
That to be sometimes Yeah, you know, it ain't.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Just uses wasn't celebrated by the NAACP. Image awards and
by b Et when she had her YouTube series, And
it wasn't until Insecure became mainstream and white people started
pointing at east Ray did anyone in the black space
start to pay attention to east Ray? So I'm not
saying this as if it's a slight on me. This
has been happening to us by our own people for years.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
I think, you know what, I think it's ultimately for
you Bae, for example, winning something like social Media Person
of the Year or whatever. You're just not a social
media person. There's just so much more to you. You're
a legitimate actor. That's what you want to do, that's
what you want to be. So when those things haven't
come your way, I was just like, you know what,
that's just maybe putting you in that box of the
social media influencer, which is something that you don't necessarily
want to be. It's what we do as a means

(54:09):
to an end to get art in our work out there,
to be hired as actors. But you don't want that
to be you know, what you're defined as. So maybe
we can look at it that way.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
That's fair, and that's why I don't think that much
about it. But let's be honest. In the last six years,
New York Times bestselling author, over four million followers on
all platforms, two number one shows, web be award winning podcasts.
I think what else we've done? And when they do
social Media Person of the Year, they've gone from Kevin Hart, right,

(54:40):
all the way down to Kevin Lee, right, Keith Lee,
Keith Lee, and Keith Lee at the time when they
nominate him had half as many as I did.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
And then so my thing is.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
What's the criteria?

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Right?

Speaker 1 (54:53):
What is the criteria? If you went from Kevin Hart
to Keith Lee, you went from Entertainer of the Year.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
From Kicky Palmer, Kekey Palmer.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
All the way to Tyler Perry entertainer of the year. Right,
this is the but you've never mentioned other people who
have only been celebrated in black spaces. Do you play
the game? People?

Speaker 4 (55:11):
Do you play the game?

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Do I play what game?

Speaker 4 (55:14):
The politics game?

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Do you play the game? Name a time in the
last six years that I've said no to any publication.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
That's going to be runner.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
That's why I be so tired. I've gone to essence
and done stuff for free. I've gone to the Soul
Train Awards, I've been to ABFF and worked as a correspondent.
My point is, I'm not going to give them any passes.
The same way I call out white publications, I'm gonna
call them out to a lot of Black publications don't
big up their black creatives when they're on the rise.
They only big up the black creatives once white people

(55:42):
have finally said this is the person. And then when
that person goes to the enemy's then the black publications
want to point out that they don't go to them.
But it was like y'all shot on me for years
while I was building. And that's just a fact, and
not for nothing. A lot of it does have to
do with the fact that black publications don't have the
same resources. They can't celebrate us the way they want

(56:03):
to celebrate us. So what they try to do is
reach out to the A list stars that have already
got celebrated to come to these events to get more sponsors.
Like I understand, if you're your bet, it's like, we
gotta get Kevin Hart, we gotta get we gotta get
this person. But but this creators right now in this
space that y'all don't know who are going to be
those people, y'all ignoring them right now, and when.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Those people become those people don't go back to them.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Then one one publication told us we couldn't be on
the cover because Kate wasn't black enough, Josh, you know,
because you was out photographer. This is not lies, this
is facts.

Speaker 4 (56:39):
I know he's black? Is she black?

Speaker 3 (56:41):
You know?

Speaker 4 (56:42):
You know till it's day when I bring it up
to them, and they'd be like, we said, we said.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
I remember when you called me. He was like, d man,
like I pissed him for this, but and I was like,
are you fucking kidding me? He was like, bro this
and I was. I was pissed. I was pissed for
my wife more than anything, because here's another example where
blackness is only defined by what you say blackness.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Is amongst our own black folks, right yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:10):
And now now that same publication it posts mixed racial,
mixed racial couples black and white, like it does what
I'm saying it.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
And the only reason why they're doing it now is
because post and mixed race couples probably got them a
bigger except this absolutely proximity. They use artists for proximity
the same way people use it for proximity publications do
to That is a fact.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
Put y'all on Game Today on how it works.

Speaker 6 (57:37):
Huh yeah, I mean this has happened. I mean this
has happened to me. I did a short film and
like a brand shoot for a haircare a very very
popular black haircare line back in the day, like twenty seventeen,
and they scrap the whole thing because the short film,
which somebody else wrote, was about two women getting married,

(58:00):
and they were like, no gay shit over here. Wow
when yeah, never put it out, never use the pictures.
I got paid, but I would have liked to see myself.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
Relax, I guarantee you this.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
If you did the same project and a white publication
picked it up, that black publication would have called you
an asker.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
They can run it as well.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yeah, it's and as unfair as it is. I understand
why they're fighting for This is just an example. But
Tyler has spoken about this well. Tyler Perry is the
highest grossing producer in Hollywood. No one ever talks about it,
like producer, director, actor, No one has gross more money
than him box office wise. It is a fact. Largest
studio all the same words number on everything when it

(58:45):
comes down to get money for projects, Right, Yellowstone gets
something like twenty four to twenty six million per episode
to do their episode. You know how much Tyler gets
per episode? Seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

Speaker 7 (58:57):
Oh my god, a fraction.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Now. The reason why this is important is because this
is why I don't get so upset. I do get
upset talking about it. But if you're a publication, you're
fighting for resources that you don't have access to. So
it's like, what's the best way can I get this?

Speaker 3 (59:13):
How can I get it done quickly?

Speaker 1 (59:14):
We're gonna go to somebody deval or we're gonna nominate
Kevin Hart. Sorry Kevin. You know, yeah, the same thing
the NBA. In the nl Man, I didn't get drafted.
Marcus Colston got drafted right when my senior year. I
was a number one receiver. Marcus had just came back
off of injury. I was leading and receiving yards and

(59:35):
touchdowns up to the last two games. Got hurt when
it came down to the draft. Pick. Right the draft,
are you going to draft a five to ten, one
hundred and seventy pound receiver or you're gonna draft six
y five, two hundred and forty. I would draft Marcus
Coaston ten times out of ten. So I'm not upset.
I just understand what it is. I just want the
people to understand too. When you see your favorite celebrities

(59:58):
sometimes say I'm not going back to be ET, it's
probably because they feel like they got shitted on by
BT for mad years and being that I'm in here
in BT right now, I hear it all the time.
I hear and then I hear from the BT exactly
like the villa. We're fighting with resources. We can't pay y'all.
Like I did a project for Netflix and they sent
me on tour press ye pay for everything because it's Netflix.

(01:00:21):
BT hit me like, ll.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
You want to tour, we don't have money for Graham.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
And I'm like, okay, I got it. This is for
me anyway, So I'll pay to promote to promote my show,
so I'll pay for myself and I'll write it off
on taxes. But some celebrities after a while just be like, man,
I'm not doing that for BT no more. And that's
the fucked up part. I'm gonna do this for BET
till I die, because I want those kids to see me.
I think me and Matt talked about this. I want

(01:00:45):
to be the celebrity that does a movie like Independence
Day and they're like, y'all want to go see the
Vow And the thing is, sit was crazy, But on
Wednesday he was Zach m Because there's some family somewhere
in Brooklyn who don't have the money to pay for
a thirty dollars Imax ticket to go see Daval, but
on Wednesday they could see Daval. Bzach Like, that's what

(01:01:06):
I want to do. So I'm always gonna be there
for BG. Most of wonna be there for the big ones,
but I'm gonna let them motherfuckers know along the way,
like this is this shit ain't right, Like y'all gotta
figure this out, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 7 (01:01:17):
Figure it out.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Let's figure out how to pay these bills, because that's
one thing that's always gonna keep coming, all right. So
we're gonna do that, and we're gonna move into listening letters.
Stick around, y'all. All right, we're back and let's dive

(01:01:39):
into this Sinstener letter for today. Hello, I am a
thirty one year old j American woman and if you
don't know, that's Jamaican American woman. And I'm engaged to
my fiance, thirty two years old black man. We've been
dating for about five years, engaged for six months, and
our wedding is in twenty twenty five. I recently I
recently was out running errands and I noticed my engagement

(01:02:00):
ring slipped off my finger.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
I retraced my steps, looked all over my car, but
I couldn't find it, and believe it was stolen. I'm devastated.
I found the police report and plan to continue going
to local pondshots to see if I can find my ring.
My fiance, unfortunately did not have the ring in shore
yet he has been pretty chill about the whole situation.
The ring cost him thirty five hundred dollars and we

(01:02:22):
both don't make much money. We got into a little
argument because I told him I will buy the same
ring with the wedding fund. But he made a good
point that although I'm paying for majority of the wedding,
I can't afford to spend an extra three grand on
another ring. Plus, I'm more upset that the sentimental value
of my engagement ring is gone, and all we have
now are the memories of the proposal, which was simple

(01:02:44):
and intimate, like I had asked. So as of now,
we both agreed that I will just wear a nice
fake ring so I have something to wear for our
engagement photos, my bridal shower, and our wedding, and then
three years down the road, he'll buy me another ring.
I admire you both, Kadeinia de Val and y'all's marriage.
I want to get both of y'all's advice on this
and what you guys would do if you were in

(01:03:05):
our shoes. Thanks so much.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
This is easy for me because the diamond industry is
in shambles. Do not buy another fucking diamond ring. What
you do is you go get a lab grown dom.
He is going to cost you ten percent of the
price and it's going to look exactly the same, no
matter why. Because seeking admiration from people outside of your
relationship is going to do nothing for your relationship. Go

(01:03:29):
get that fake ring, put on your finger, take your pictures,
you and your fiance plan a perfect wedding for y'allself
that y'all want, and to go on y'all merried way.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
Mike Drop, that's really it and the fact that you
guys are I mean, and they have a plan to
put the fake ring on, get married, and then maybe
three years down the line, you want to get another ring,
get another ring. We've learned over time that literally these
like these things are material. I understand the sentimental value.
But Deval proposed with proposed to me with the ring
that he had custom made. It was beautiful, roundstone, had

(01:04:00):
a K and a dee on it. It was beautiful
and it was made by our jeweler Aria at the
time recipes to Ari he died for after Yeah, yeah,
And that for me was super sentimental because I'm like
Ari made the ring, he made my ring, he made
original wedding band. It was just very sentimental. And then
as the years go on, you live in the memory

(01:04:22):
of it, but the material thing doesn't necessarily have the
connection that you think it has to that memory because
I've had my ring, this is the third ring I've
had now because of out has changed and upgraded just
with the time and how my style has changed. So yeah,
I think between the lab grown diamond, that's the that's
the hack now because we have someone that we know
who's getting a divorce and tried to sell her ring.
Ring was valued at seventy five thousand dollars when her

(01:04:43):
husband bought it for her. We took it to a
local Julia to try to see she can turn it in.
They weren't giving her more than fifteen thousand dollars. He
paid seventy five thousand dollars for this ring.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Guys, I said, the market has changed so much because
lab grown diamonds pretty much take the same This is
how much science has changed.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
It goes through the same process of coaling.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
The diamond into a diamond that it does underground, so
when they test it, it passes all the same test does.
So now you can get the same exact diamond as
you had before with no flaws, and it's going to
pass all of the diamond laser tests.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
I am not going to spend three thousand dollars when
I can spend three fifty. That's I'm just not going
to do it. I'm going to invest that money in
and creating a greater future. There's some days I walk
around and Kate don't got her ring on. K lost
to tennants bracelet that I bought her, and she was
so devastrated, crying and I said, it's a thing, and
it's a thing like we have each other, like these
things are going to come and go. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Absolutely, good luck to y'all with the wedding planning and
starting your life together. That's awesome.

Speaker 7 (01:05:43):
All right, y'all.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
If you want to be featured as one of our
listener letters, email us at the Ellis's Advice. Well, the
Ellis Advice at gmail dot com. Spell that out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
T H E L L wait t H E E
L L I S A d V I C E
at gmail dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
All right, let's go in to a moment of truth time.
We're talking about black excellence and black power, black excellence
versus black power. What is our final round out with
this conversation? Take us away, trip.

Speaker 6 (01:06:11):
I think the four election is a great example about
how what matters black excellence or black power because other
people that you might be trying to be like in
the name of excellence, they don't even want the life
that you want.

Speaker 7 (01:06:28):
They don't want none of the shit.

Speaker 6 (01:06:30):
So do everything that you do excellently and for the collective,
for your people so we can all make it to
the other side unscathed.

Speaker 7 (01:06:39):
Amen.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Amen, Mommy, I don't think we need no more moments
of truth. Child. That was a blank it statement for everybody.
If but go ahead and they let me speak for
you for.

Speaker 4 (01:06:48):
Me, simple, let your light shine.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
That's the only way black excellents happen.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
Love that, but you got, Josh, I think black excellence
cannot exist without black power.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
Love that for you. Just always remember the black power
portion of it is a verb. It's a movement, and
by way of movement, we attain something that, like Triple
told us, with black excellence is something that we as
individuals can feel. So know that one has to work
with the other simultaneously.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Your mine is easy. Black excellences in ideology, black powers
an action item. Get out there and do stuff. Be powerful.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
That's it, all right, y'all Be powerful and be excellent.
And join us on Patreon if you have not yet,
because that's that's the best way to be with the Eliss.
We have our after show on there for Ellis ever After.
We also have exclusive family content. You can find us there,
So if you haven't joined Patreon yet, do so, and
you can find us on social media at Ellis ever After.

(01:07:52):
I'm at Skagene, I am.

Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
And i am deval A Matt on the score, Ellis,
excuse me, I said that wrong. I have a terrible
name and I want to change it. If y'all can
help me get a new Instagram name, please, But it's
on the score Matt dot Elis. We confuse these people
every single every weekday.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
It's a new one every time.

Speaker 4 (01:08:10):
And you can double click on my face at Joshua Underscore, Dwayne,
I'm at.

Speaker 7 (01:08:14):
Trips the Cool t ri ibb Z the Cool on
Everything That's Right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
And if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, be sure to rate,
review and subscribe please do.

Speaker 6 (01:08:25):
Cot Ellis ever After is an iHeartMedia podcast. It's hosted
by Kadeen and daval Ellis. It's produced by Triple Video,
Production by Joshua Dwyane and Matthew Ellis, video editing by
Leshan Roem

Speaker 7 (01:10:00):
Sadgonagonad Dogona