Code Switching

When it comes to being Black in America, the hoops we have to jump through just to be recognized as worthy are ever changing. But do you think code switching is harmful or necessary for Black excellence? The Ellises and the crew give their opinions in this episode, Dead Ass.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know, it really bothers me that using the proper
command of the King's language is only associated with educated
white people. That really bothers.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Me, I know, because for me, it's like, if there's
a time and place for everything, is it really codeswitch.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Dead ass? It all started with real talk, unfiltered, honest
and straight from the heart. Since then, we've gone on
to become Webby award winning podcasters in New York Times
bestselling authors.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
That ass was more than a podcast for us. It
was about our growth, a place where we could be vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Be wraw or but most apportly be us.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
But as we know, life keeps evolving and so do we,
and through it all, one thing has never changed.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
This is.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Because we got a lot to talk about.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Sorry time, I'm gonna take y'all back to August two
thousand and ten, the month, yes, August t ten. The
reason why I remember is because I had just come
back from Oh matter of fact, it was August two
thousand and nine, and I had just got cut from

(01:15):
the Cleveland Browns. I had went back to Hastra for
I went back to visit just to see how football
was going during the summertime, and I ran into what's
his name that worked for NBA TV, Jared Greenberg I
worked in. I walked into Jared Greenburg and Jared was
just like, hey, Davao, are you interested in doing TV?

(01:36):
I know you used to do radio for me. You
talk a lot, You're a funny guy. And I was like, yeah,
I'm interested in doing some television. At the time, he
had no clue that I wanted to get into TV film,
so I saw this as an opportunity. So he was like, hey,
they have a job as a sideline reporter for MSG
varsity if you're interested. So I was like bet. He
took me into the office. We did a sideline, a report,

(01:57):
a video on a green screen. He pitched it to
his people, but they were just like, oh, we loved Viowe.
They hired me. Boom. So now I have a job
as a signline reporter for high school football for Brooklyn
Long Island Stotton Island. And I did my first game.
I remember my first game. It was Erasmus Verse Lincoln
back Home and back Home, and I remember it coming

(02:18):
on TV and you sat there and you watched it.
I did, and you smirked, and I was like, what
do you think? And you was like terrible, And I
was like what and you was just like, you took
four years of voice addiction classes.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well that was part of the four part.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Of Yeah, but we had to take voice every year.
And you were like, why the hell do you sound
so Brooklyn? And I was just like, to be honest,
I didn't realize. I just wanted to give my personality
give a little. And he was like, no, that's not
how this works. Someone comes to the number one rule
you said to being a reporter or news don't become
the story, so you can't input yourself in the story.

(02:57):
And you had me practice on changing my dialect to
say the end of my words and not you so
much slang. And you know what that job ended up. Well,
we know what that ended up happening. Tell them I
ended up getting in studio analyst job.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Sure did. And he was sitting there with the anchors
and reporting and doing such a great job. I remember
watching it when you finally hit the desk and I
was just like, dang, like he really just took that time.
And you didn't get offended. You were like no, you
were just like, yo, help me get better, help me learn,
And you know what that did that freed up a
spot for you girls, and I ended up on the sideline.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
While I was in studio analyst and doing I once
do all alone, y'all.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
That was the plan all along. Now, who knew that
was going to happen, but it was great that it did.
And we had a couple of games that we would
go into work together. So we've been working together a
long time. We have had several jobs together and several
jobs separately. But that's crazy. It just made me think
about that.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
I gotta go back on my Instagram. There are pictures
of us at the same games at Hofstra where you
did sideline reporting and I did on in studio analysts
and Playboy player.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Absolutely and see. The funny thing at the time was
I didn't really understand some of like the technicalities behind
the sport. So I would have to like call you
sometimes to be like, all right, babe, what just happened?
Which coach I got to interview?

Speaker 3 (04:14):
I ask?

Speaker 1 (04:15):
I would like, grab grab that coach, Grab the Uniondale coach,
day up, grab the Farmingdale coach they lose, and leave
them alone.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Because sports reporting is a different kind of reporting, you
have to have some sort of you know, understanding of
the game. So I was learning as I went. But
we did. We did mad things together. Bro dap me up.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Karaoke. This song seems to fit perfectly. I don't know
the whole song, Okay, I only know the beginning of
the song of my favorite TV shows.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Tell me what we got.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Since we're talking about code switching, I think it only
makes sense that we go here, Okay, then then then
then then.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
It's not on You use your walk to me, it's
not unusual. Walk to something else, and when.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
I see you out, it's not on usual.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Shout out to my man, Carlton Banks bro Right.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
The original code switcher, I mean didn't even really switch.
I think he was stuck.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
He was stuck. He didn't co switch. But there was
an episode where they went to l A to go
to Magarthur Park. Yes, and he cold switched to be
with the homies. Yes, and then they liked him more
than they like Will and will ain't like it. Remember
that's that's a very important episode. Especially in the nineties
we're dealing with cold switching. They were calling Carlton a sellout.

(05:48):
It's important that we talk about this today because we
want to talk about cold switching a little bit.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Sounds good, bro. I guess we should go pay some
bills and come back and we'll get into the meat
of the show. Stick around, y'all.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
All right, we're back, We're back.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
It's time for Vow's favorite part of the show.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yes or no?

Speaker 5 (06:07):
Op?

Speaker 2 (06:08):
All right, what we got today?

Speaker 6 (06:09):
Charibel Well In the news in April, it was announced
that the Academy, the Academy, the Oscars, folks, they are
now requiring Academy voters to watch the films before they
vote for them.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
The keyword that Trippi said, y'all, now, yeah, they are now,
So you mean to tell me this whole time, people
weren't watching all the films.

Speaker 6 (06:32):
After one hundred years, they did not require them to
watch the films. They said, they were basing it on
the honor system. Of course, if you're in the Academy,
you're a voter, you want to.

Speaker 5 (06:41):
Watch the films. But I think that some of the people.

Speaker 6 (06:45):
A lot of the people in the Academy were maybe
too busy making films or making money off of films
to watch the films.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
So if you're making films, investing in films, and then
you're now voting on films. So they were voting off
of vibes. Yeah, vibe forever their money. That's insanity.

Speaker 5 (07:04):
Yeah, that's what I think.

Speaker 6 (07:06):
Conan O'Brien said that, he was like voting, we vote
our vibes in this country, so we.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
Don't in this country. That's an absolute fact. Not just listen.
I have a quick opinion about it. We have to
be more careful with who we give our standard of excellence,
right because we provided them with the standard of excellence,
saying that we all want to aspire to be that,

(07:32):
only to find out that they didn't give a ship. Really,
they were just voting off vibes. So it's like this
whole time, for one hundred years, we said this was
the pinnacle of excellence. Come to find out that they
didn't even treat it as the pinnacle of excellence. But
that speaks more to us. Why do we always say
that their version of excellence.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Is what we aspire to?

Speaker 1 (07:49):
So now they know because now for a hundred years,
I got to look back at all of these films
and be like, was that really the best film of
the year? You see what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
A lot of time was.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
The Golden statue has lost in a lot of his gold.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Now that was.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Bronze to me.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
You just watching when somebody else.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Likes Yeah, it's just it's it kind of lost it
for me. That's my opinion is that I feel like,
you know, not, and not only just for black creatives,
for everyone. First of all, the people who vote as
like ninety eight percent white, so automatically you know they're
not watching many films of color. Let's just be honest.
So how do you vote for a film that you
don't even watch? You just look at and say, you

(08:27):
know what, Meryl Street was in this, I'll go it's solid.
Daniel day Lewis was in that one. Yeah, let me
Tom Hanks here, let me throw that there.

Speaker 7 (08:35):
Well, my theory that should work. But Steven Spielberg directed
Color Purple, nominated eleven times and then win.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Once because it was called The Color I know.

Speaker 7 (08:43):
That said what I'm saying, My theory, it should work
by you seeing Stephen Stephen, Steven Spielberg's name, true, you check,
oh yeah, oh that movie.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Nah, So at least they read. They might not have
watched the movie, but they read the synopsis, and then
that was when they chose.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
My opinion is that it's fucking ridiculous.

Speaker 7 (09:02):
Opinion is.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Like that, I got an opinion, and I like that.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
I can't catch on camera next time. My opinion is,
here's the thing, right, we got doctors who prescribe prescriptions
for us all the time. Can you imagine if they
prescribe those prescriptions without even looking at our symptoms or whatever.
This is equivalent to that just picking stuff just based

(09:32):
off of I feel like this today, and I like
this today, so I'm gonna just do this what I
feel like.

Speaker 7 (09:36):
They might do that already, that the whole medical market.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
What it needs to be pushed. What's that new drug?

Speaker 3 (09:49):
A Keademy Wars of the United States pretty much?

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Absolutely, I got you. I mean, it's it's everything.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
They have a gold step.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
We talked about this Withers like, how do they choose
who gets picked in the draft? When we talked about
what Shador Sanders like, what was the criteria? We don't know.
They moved the goalpost every time every year.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
So, I mean the draft is a little bit different
because you're picking based off your personal needs as a team,
like your team needs I do a bit different.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
It is a little bit different. It is a little
bit different, but I will say this, you are drafting
with a purpose and also to send a message, and
you can also not draft or draft somebody to send
a message.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
True, So I.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Think it's it's kind of symbol.

Speaker 6 (10:34):
Yeah, I like what you said about our standard of
excellence being compared to somebody else.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
We're talking about code switching today.

Speaker 6 (10:44):
And for me that brought up this. The biggest movie
right now is Sinners. Ryan Coogler one of the best directors.

Speaker 5 (10:52):
I think.

Speaker 6 (10:52):
When I went to see Wakinda forever, I made a
video saying that somebody needs to give Ryan some pussy
today and every day.

Speaker 5 (11:01):
Was so good because he's.

Speaker 6 (11:02):
It was amazing and I hope that he's getting some
pussy after Centners came out, because it opened with forty
eight million dollars, it only dropped six percent in the
second weekend, which is a low drive for a horror film.
But before the movie came out, there was a video
of Ryan that was circulating online where he was talking
about all the viewing options for the film. So it's

(11:24):
the first horror film to be filmed simultaneously in imax
and seventy millimeter and so there's like seven different viewing options,
and he was talking about all of these technical aspects
of film. But he talking like a nigga from Oakland,
you know. He like, first of all, I won't charge

(11:44):
she what was happening? Like, you know what I'm saying, Like,
do you know how California dudes talk? Which, to me,
that was amazing to see a black man talking like
a black man talking about something that a lot of
people don't think black men can do.

Speaker 5 (11:57):
Yes, so I want to know, do you have no eye?

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Man? That's a good one. The only thing I say,
the only issue I have is the fact that, like
you said, a black man speaking like a black man,
like black men are not monolithic. And the only way
I hate the fact that people relate blackness to where
they grew up, which means like, for example, he grew
up in the hood, so it's like your blackness is

(12:23):
only to the hood, like I'm from Brooklyn, which means
that the minute I stopped talking like I was from
Flatbush and I stopped talking gutter, I lost my blackness
a little bit. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (12:32):
I'll push back on that.

Speaker 6 (12:34):
I think that there is a such thing as a
black vernacular wherever you're from. White people from Brooklyn don't
sound like you. So it's not that all black people
talk this way. Is that nobody else speaks that way?

Speaker 1 (12:47):
I disagree because I wanted to ask what was what's
black vernacular?

Speaker 7 (12:51):
Yeah, I don't know, but I know that slang that's
used in New York. I know how your accent. It
doesn't matter your skin or what. I know. White people are,
Italian people know every culture that can sound like a
real New Yorker from the hood, no matter what you
look like.

Speaker 6 (13:06):
I think New York has an accent people white people
from New York have an accent, but it still does
not sound the same I hear.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
And I'm a West Indian from New York, so sometimes
I sound like mosh pit of things.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
I just think it's I think it's problematic when you
say someone don't sound black, because then it's like, if
I'm black and I speak how I speak, you're telling
me I don't speak how I look because I don't
sound like the rest of y'all's. That's projecting that I
have to sound like y'all in order to own my blackness.
That's the only thing I push you back on. It's
like I wouldn't say he sounds black. I would say

(13:38):
he sounds like he's from Oakland and he was born
and he's from that area. But have to say he
sounds black. I think that to me is I think.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
There can still be an eloquence around speaking like where
you're from, like people can still understand you. So my
thing with Ryan is like I think he's super brilliant.
I think that he has amazing knowledge about this stuff,
and I'm listening to him talk about all these different films,
but it's sometimes just hard to understand what. I never
thought like, oh, this black man can't speak well. It
was more like I don't understand where he comes from.

(14:06):
That accent, you know, I wait it to.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Ed.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
It just sounds like where he's from.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
He's just he's not eloquent, right, right, like like certain
people are eloquent. For example, you listen to Barack Obama speak,
and you can just listen to him speak because the
way he speaks, the way he puts words together, he
doesn't stutter, he doesn't have long gaps in between right,
and he speaks well. We study oratory. There's a way
you are told to speak in oratory classes in order

(14:32):
to captivate.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
It like a cadence about how you speak. Jay Z,
for example, jay Z speaks eloquently I think, but he's
from Brooklyn and I can tell he's from Brooklyn, you
know what I'm saying. So it doesn't necessarily equates to you.
That's a good point education versus where you're coming from.
It's just like Brian. Sometimes it be like Ryan, I
want to like he didn't want his back by Ryan,
get it out, broke, get it out. I can't get
to the point.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
You know, who's the other film making us from Oakland?
Who is Oh my gosh, I I don't know why
it's escaping me. But my point is that everybody from
Oakland doesn't speak like Ryan Coogler. You know what I'm saying.
It's like everybody from Brooklyn don't speak like Daval you
know what I'm saying. I just don't want to put
that on all black men, that if you get on

(15:13):
camera you have to sound like where I'm from, or
else you lose your blackness. That's my that's just my
only here's.

Speaker 6 (15:19):
My pushback to that. You know Tom Hanks's son, Chad Hanks.
Have you heard him do his Jamaican accent.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
And what would you say, he sounds Jamaican. Okay, you
don't sound black, but Jamaican's are white too and Asian.

Speaker 5 (15:34):
But he's not Jamaican.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
That's a poor example though, But you said he sounds Jamaican.

Speaker 6 (15:39):
What about you've heard the rapper g Eazy, No, you
know the other white rapper, what's his name?

Speaker 5 (15:49):
The curly hair guy.

Speaker 6 (15:50):
If a white person came up to you and they
started talking to you like you speak, well, you wouldn't
say anything.

Speaker 5 (15:57):
You'd be like, why are you you talking black?

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Like that's no, this is my thing. I think that
that's often a projecting from projection from people. I never
like to put on people that you sound black or
you sound white, because I hated feeling like growing up
in Brooklyn. When I started to go to different schools,
they would say, you sound like a white boy. So
part of part of me pushing back on that is
also my own personal experiences, like you can't tell me

(16:20):
I sound like a white boy because I don't sound
like you. I'm black and I'm from Brooklyn. I sound
how I sound. So my version of blackness sounds like this,
and I just don't want everybody to put that on him, like, oh,
he sound black. It's like, no, he sounds like Ryan.
You know what I'm saying. There are black people from
Oakland who don't sound like Ryan Coogler, and what we're
gonna say about them they don't sound black. That's the thing.

(16:41):
I just don't. I want to push back on that, Ilack.
This cannot be associated with one sound.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
I would agree with you, but Ryan sounds black.

Speaker 6 (16:47):
Bro Right, if he called you on the phone, you
would be like, this is a black man on the phone.

Speaker 5 (16:52):
We know what sounding black means.

Speaker 7 (16:55):
You would as soon as a point.

Speaker 6 (16:56):
We don't think that everybody, every black person has to
sound a certain way, but we absolute know that sounding
black is a thing and we know what it means.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Once again though, once again though, right, we're talking about
our experience. You put Ryan Cooler on the phone with
a white person from Indonesia, He's not gonna say that
person sounds black. He's not even gonna know what they're saying.
That's what I'm saying. Everything we know comes from our perspective.
So we know that he sounds black because we've heard
black people around us, other people around the world, haven't

(17:23):
heard all people from Oakland speak, so they wouldn't say
automatically that he sounds black. We say it because we're
black in America. I don't want to put that on
black people. You see what I'm saying, What what does
an Indian person from Slakavanya sound like? What? Exactly? That's
my point?

Speaker 3 (17:41):
What person can only be from India?

Speaker 2 (17:45):
But within this country there's dialects.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
This is what I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (17:48):
Does anybody there is a such thing as a black dialect?
That's what I'm saying, Like we to us.

Speaker 7 (17:55):
But everybody going back to your Jamaica example, there's some
white Jamaicans and even understand more than some countries. Amaicans.
I know I grew up and to.

Speaker 5 (18:04):
Make it's not a good example. That's not a good example.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
There's some white people that we know from Brooklyn that
sound I know what you mean, trouble that sounds like
black people. For example black Brooklyn. There's a young man
that lives on your black he married the girl friends.
You know what I'm talking about. He if I were
to see seeing him coming to pross me and then yes,
and then that's what we would say. He sounds like.

Speaker 6 (18:29):
What I'm saying, is that's a problem, not a problem
if we own the fact that black culture is a thing.
Black is also a thing that comes out of black culture.
For instance, Chicago. Black people in Chicago have a very
specific accent, and it is due to the culture of
the Great Migration. A lot of black people in Chicago,
their grandparents came from Mississippi and Alabama during the Great Migration,

(18:51):
and so their accent is influenced by the Southern accent.
So they sound different than white Chicagoans who have been
living in the Midwest for a while or came from
different parts of the country. That is a part of
the culture. Black vernacular comes out of the culture. It's
not a problem I think that other people if you
grow up in black culture, for.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
You that an opera. I'm saying that it's a problem
for me that we are saying that this person sounds
like a color, Like that's the problem for me, it's
a problem, Like I'm not saying you wrong, its opera, no,
opp My point is that I don't ever want my
vernacular to be associated with a color. That's because think
about it, if a white person were to say you

(19:31):
sound like a black man, what's the first thing that problem.
That's a problem, right, So how come trouble gets to say.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
No, I don't like it when when black people say
other people say, that's what I'm saying White people, I
hate it, That's.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
What I'm saying. I think that's problematic that we we
say that a person has to sound black, or say
a person sounds black. That's the wildest thing ever, But
it happens.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
People say that it is true, like people do sound
like other ethnicities or other colors or whatever. You just
sound that way.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
I feel you. What I'm saying is is that it's
problematic that we say it just because we say it, like's,
for example, white people are black people say nigga? Why
can't we say it? Just because we say it don't
mean that it's not problematic. That's my point. Calling somebody
a nigga, calling someone a racial slur or a homophobic
slur is a problem, right, But people say it, right,

(20:23):
don't they say it? They do, But it's still problematic.
God does that correlate with this is how it correlates.
It's just because we say it doesn't mean that it's
not problematic. Saying to someone like you sound black and
giving someone's vernacular or color when we're saying that we
don't want to be defined by our color. It's problematic
for us as people. That's just my thing.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
That's fair.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Like, we can't say applaud Ryan Cooler for being a director,
not just being a black director. Don't we say that
all the time? Applaud him for being For example, he
said it. When he first came out with Black Panther,
they kept saying that it was the greatest black he
was the highest grossing black director for that year, right.
He was like, but I was also the highest grossing
director for that year ever, but they kept putting black

(21:06):
on it.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Now they kept bringing up his deal and getting pressed,
and they keep talking about his dealing his blackness. He
pretty much was just like, I have some ideas as
to why this is such a hot topic, but I'd
rather not speak on it because.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
He didn't want to bring race. Black people bring up race.
He sounds black. It's like, we want to be the
only ones to be able to say, let's put his
blackness on the forefront.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
I guess celebrate, but.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
This is one thing though we have. It's problematic for
us to always attach it to always attach it and
then try to detach it when we wanted detail. It's
problematic because it creates mixed messages. We can celebrate excellence
without celebrating This is why it's important that we talk
about this going into code switching.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Right, we're ready in the episode.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Guys, think about it.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Let's when I.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Go into a company, right, and my excellence in that company.
I don't want my excellence to be fined by my
black man. I don't want them to say he was
the best black CEO we ever had. I want them
to say, Yo, he was the best ceo we ever had.
We made the most money, we had the best growth,
he treated people the best. The minutes you make it
about the blackness, then it takes away from the fact

(22:14):
that I was better than all of the white boys too.
I can see that.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Like even in pageantry when I used to compete, if
some young lady won and she was like the first
black queen to win for New York, ever, it's like
highlight that, like she's the first black, and then people
black other blacks. We celebrate that because it's like wow,
for so long it was a string of white people winning.
But the minute the black girl one, it was like
it had to be celebrated. I get both sides. You

(22:40):
want to celebrate it because it's like, this is the
first time something's happening for a black person that we
can be proud of. But then also it's like she
was just the best girl there that year.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
You know, I feel you, so I feel I just
it is. It is. Well, So I got a question
for Trouble right because you're super pro black, like I'm
pro black. If another dude came up and was having
the same success as Ryan Cooler, say it was, who's
another young black director right now? For us? Oh, matter

(23:09):
of fact, Jordan Peele.

Speaker 7 (23:11):
I was gonna say, Arry Drienkins peel works.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
What if he got up and just sounded like a
malleible white boy, would it take away from his success
as a black director? Whoever, whoever the director was, let's
not even give him a name. Let's just say, black
guy from Georgia goes out and breaks all of these records,
but he talks like quote unquote a white boy, he

(23:33):
code switches. Would we then, as a black community say,
now my celebrating that sellout? Would we do that?

Speaker 3 (23:40):
Some people do?

Speaker 1 (23:41):
That's why it's problematic.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
There we go Charles Cambino, what's his real name, Donald
Donald Glover. He gets flacked because he isn't uh or
he gets he doesn't get celebrated as much I think
in a black community because he's dated white women. He
doesn't act.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Like the typical black man. That's problematic for me.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
That's just problematic for me.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
And I think he's and I think he's extremely talented
in many genres, in many industries. So I get what
you're saying.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
That's what I'm saying. I just don't want I don't
want Ryan Cooler's blackness to take away from his greatness.
He should be celebrated in all of it, and then
we should be like yo, you know what I'm saying Now,
I will say this as a brother. I felt like
triple right, like yo, he up there sounding like himself.
But I personally was not gonna smember when I made

(24:32):
my post about it. I wasn't gonna think my post
about him sounding like himself because I don't want to
bring attention to that. I want to bring attention to
his accomplishments, not his skin color. That's to me why
I feel like no, But I felt like we kind
of went into the coach witch.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Yeah, but you would ask our question that she never
got to answer.

Speaker 6 (24:49):
But I think what you said is kind of the point.
You don't want your blackness to take away from your greatness.
And the way that he speaks in his black vernacular
as hisself not losing any part of his identity, braids
in his hair. He's putting black identity at the forefront
of the movies that he makes. That in turn allows
his greatness and his blackness to work hand in hand.

(25:09):
And I think that's the point of acknowledging the way
that he shows up as his full self while being
great in the things that he does.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah, I agree. I agree with him showing up as
his full self. I mean, y'all can have that point.
That's y'all perspective. I don't got to agree with it, though,
because I don't feel like I want my blackness to
be always on the forefront of what I do, because
if you really want to occupy space, you don't always.
It's the same thing with the LGPTQ community, right. And
I spoke to one of my friends who you know,
and he says he gets so tired that every time

(25:40):
he goes somewhere, they make a point to say, here's
this gay man, and he's like, why can't my greatness
just occupy the space in itself? That's where I'm coming
from with it. Why can't my greatness just occupy my
space in itself?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
We would like that, but that's.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
But how can black people keep doing it to black people?
That's what I'm saying is problematic. Right, if we keep
doing it to us, they're always going to do it
to us, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, of course
we can celebrate the being the first black, but also
let's just celebrate being better than everybody else. Yeah. I
may have been the first black, but I also was
just better than everybody else, And all those people weren't black,

(26:17):
so it was like I was better than y'all. Like,
can we celebrate that.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
That I was just better than y'all? That's it, that's it, Like.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
I was just better than like like Jesse Owens first
Black Olympian to win four gold medals, and he won
it during the time when Hitler was hosting the Olympics
in Germany. Right, it mattered that his blackness was there,
but you never heard Jesse Owens gay up and say
I'm the first black. He was just like, I was
better than all of them. To me, that was just dope.
Like if you watch he was just like, yeah, I'm here,

(26:45):
I'm faster than you. I jump further than you. I
run faster than you, I jump higher than you. I
just happened to be black. Deal with it. Like, to me,
that was like the ultimate display. And when it comes
to code switching, I kind of feel like I'm not
a big cold switcher, but I will learn. I did
learn that you get access to different people if they

(27:06):
can understand what you're saying. For example, if I walk
into a meeting with on a Warren Buffett and I'm
just like, you know, you know what I'm saying, Warren,
I got this idea of boom check it. Warren may
be like, huh, you know, or Warren may know and understand.
But for me, I'm not gonna take the chance. I'm

(27:27):
gonna go in there and give him my best elevated
pitch in two minutes in a way that he can
understand it if I'm trying to get access to those resources.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Right, So your approach is different depending on the person.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, depending on the person like, you know what I'm saying.
And also my code doesn't switch if it's just white people.
They are very educated black people who I know I
can't talk up to and walk up to and be like, YO,
what's good? My g like not that. Some black people
not with that either.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Well that's why I said there's a time and place
for everything. It's like, you got to know your audience.
You have to know who you're speaking to, so you
have to know what the opportunity is completely. Get that
all right. So for me with my perspective as it
comes to just the code switching or just speaking properly,
I was raised in a household of course as West Indian,
and my mom, I think for so long, leaving Jamaica
when she was younger. Even when she was younger, my

(28:10):
grandmother always stressed to her the importance of speaking properly.
So with Jamaica being under British rule for so many years,
there's this aspiration that some Jamaicans have to kind of
dim their dialect and their patuas you know, and then
they want to sound more proper. So that's why Jamaicans

(28:30):
have developed this version called twang or twang where you
try to sound a little bit more educated, quote unquote.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
And that's what Tripp was talking about with proximity to
white men.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Right, and that's what they aspire towards. So my grandmother
from when I can even remember as a kid, we
would sometimes watch this Jamaican comedian, Oliver Samuels, and I
would repeat my brother and I would repeat that, and
it was like strictly Jamaican pata that he would speak it.
And my grandmother would say, you know that, that's what
he does because he's a comedian, but you should always
speak properly. So my mom was always big with me

(29:04):
on that speaking properly. So we joke at my mom now,
we're just like, girl, you're just faking like you barely
sound Jamaican because for so many years she's tried to
kind of eradicate that Jamaican accent to sound more proper.
And for me now growing up now having my mom,
when I did pageants, I started at ten, and for
her when we would have like a speech competition, she

(29:26):
would always have me a nuncigate tend see the ends
of my words, And I just grew up, Yeah, but
I kind of grew up in that. So for me,
it was normal. So then I go to school in
East New York. I know, you know, in East New York,
Brooklyn Bethlehem Baptist Academy, shout out, and I'm around hood
black kids. So when I got to that school, it's

(29:48):
already bad enough that I'm super light skinned, got straight here,
look kind of white, kind of Indian, kind of Spanish.
They don't know. So the kids used to laugh at
me and say, I sound like a white girl. But
that was just me being like, well, how am I
supposed to sound? So I made it a point when
I was in there now to immerse myself into the
black vernacular that was the hood talk. So that's why

(30:10):
I feel like I was able to do both. And
throughout the course of my life growing up, there were
spaces where it required me to fit in that I
sound like a Brooklyn Roundaway girl, and then when I
had to get on pageant, it's like I'm Kadeen Joseph,
thank you. And I spent my entire life doing that,
And to me, it wasn't necessarily about trying to fit

(30:33):
into those spaces, but I knew that how I represented
myself and those spaces mattered. So if I was going
on stage, I wouldn't be like, Yo, what my name is, Kaden?
I'm from Brooklyn, Da Da Da da d.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
I'm not doing that on stage. I'm not doing that
in an interview with someone. But when I'm around my people,
then I could let loose a little bit, which is
what I tend to do.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Now, can I ask your question? When you got up
on that stage and you spoke properly and said the
end of the word were, You're still not Kadeen?

Speaker 2 (30:56):
No?

Speaker 1 (30:56):
I still sounded like a black girl to me, Okay,
And that's that's my point, is like black women are
not monolithic, which means is if you black, you only
sound like your hood around the way chick you grew
up with. No, there are black women who grow up
in different parts of the country who only sound like
how you sound on the pageant stage. They're brown skin,

(31:17):
they're dark, they have course here and everything. Does that
mean that they're less black? Me?

Speaker 5 (31:20):
And absolutely?

Speaker 1 (31:21):
And that's my point.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
And then you throw me into the news circuit. Now,
so I go to school for broadcast journalism, right, that's
a whole nother form of speaking properly. So now I'm
doing voice addiction. The aim for that was to sound
like the dialect was like Midwest American, because they felt
like that was the authentic American when you strip away
all the accents and the dialects, that was the most

(31:44):
authentic version of what it sounded like to be American.
So when you hear news reporters speak on TV and
they're always like, hello, I'm Kadeen Ellis and I'm reporting
live for the evening News, that too. Whoever decided that
that was like the be all that ended all of
the way news reporters were supposed to sound, That's what
I aspire to in that space. So it's funny now

(32:05):
when I meet or talk to news reporters who are
out of work, you know they're not They're just in person,
they still sound like what they sound like on television
because it becomes a part of their identity too. It's
like they're not necessarily coachaching. This is now them. So
I don't look at a news reporter and be like, well,
damn if it's a black news reporter, for example, I
actually no one who's Dominican. I don't look at her
and be like, damn, you're less Dominican now. Because you're

(32:27):
a news reporter and you're speaking to me properly, properly
in or properly in terms of what we would say
is a proper way to speak in person, and they're
not working. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (32:38):
I mean it does make sense because I agree with it.
That's what made sense to me. I thought you were
in agreement with Trible.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Well, I did agree with some of the things Triple said.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
I'm in agreement with it.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
But then now, in my experience, I'm able to see
a couple different, you know, ways that it can and
can't work for people.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
So let me ask all y'all a question. I'm asking y'all,
y'all have kids, How y'all gonna raise y'all kids to speak?

Speaker 3 (32:59):
You got kids, mister oh, I got kids? Know anyone
with kids?

Speaker 1 (33:02):
But well, no, Matt wants to have kids. Tripple talked
about possibly not possible. But let's just an example, like,
if you have kids, are you going to raise your
kids and say, yo, I need you to speak black
like I need you to speak or are you going
to say become who you are and how they speak
becomes their identity? Is my point I'm.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Asking, Well, my response is. I guess it's twofold, right.
I hold the thought idea that if you code switch,
or if you have the idea to cod switch, you're
already lost, right, because you're already thinking about something that
you're not thinking about the task at hand. You're thinking
about how you appear or look about delivering whatever you

(33:38):
have to say or whatever you have to do. That's
number one. Number two coach switch is important because a
lot of times we feel like the environment or the
surroundings have to sort of it has to change for us, right.
We don't have to fit into the environment. The environment

(33:59):
has to change.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
You're talking about individuals or just black as individuals, as individuals, right.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
For example, walking into as a New Yorker walking into
a Southern or Atlanta restaurant or whatever, and the waiter says,
what you want, how you doing? Like what you want?
What can I get you? Right?

Speaker 2 (34:17):
For me?

Speaker 3 (34:18):
I want how you doing? How can I serve you?
But if she talks to me differently, I understand that
I'm walking into their establishment, So I gotta I'm normally
going to just accept what they give me because I
know it's not I know it's not a oh so you're.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
Talking about accepting code switching from people.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
No, I'm talking about code switching is not only just.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
You changing the way you changing the way.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
You speak, but it's assimulating to environments that are around you.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
For example, if you go to a Jamaican restaurant and
you want more ox steal grievs, Yeah, you're going to
talk with a little bit of accent with the young
lady behind the counter because she might relate to you.

Speaker 3 (34:58):
No, I speak how I want want to speak, acting
or not, makan or not. I'm going to speak how
I want to speak, but understanding that the code that
she has I need to accept whatever's going on.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
I see what you're saying is when you get into
an environment, the code is created by whoever the established
correct owner, or whoever wants the establishment.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
The establishment, the country, the region, the air, the statement
on us, and wherever you are. You you should be
able to understand that. You should coach with yourself. You
don't have to simulate, right, but don't change up what
you talking to me? Are you talking to me like that?
Ask me how I want like? That's unacceptable right for
me personally, Because you got to understand that people run

(35:41):
their business the way they want. Countries run their countries
the way they run, and you can't change it. For example,
go to China, expect the same pleasantries that you have
in America. It's probably not going to happen. I know,
I trust me.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
I understand because I hate when I remember we were
talking about the other day when we heard this old
white dude say to things, you speak American, which to
me is like the most wildest, like speak American? What
the fuck is American? But I feel you it's like
code switching is also the well I never thought about
that till you just said it, but that actually is fair.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah for me, that that's going back to the environment.
So going back to my uh, to my child, I
feel it's important to I feel like it's important to
understand or teach her that she's gonna have to understand
and how to navigate these spaces and that's part of
code switching. But also I want her to be able
to co switch if if she needs to. It's almost

(36:31):
a superpower right to be able, like for you to
go in these spaces and or just to go to school,
and you know your mom teaches you how to speak
a certain way, and I know we Jamaican that twine.
When it comes out like you have to speak like this,
it gets kind of funky when you hear other people
do it, but understanding the the reason for it is survival,

(36:52):
Like the reason that you were taught to code switch
is to be able to not be not have your
speech be a district action to what your message is
absolutely and not necessarily stand out when you don't necessarily
need to need to stand out your performance to stand
out your your which is what your abilities to stand out,
what you bring to the table should stand out more

(37:12):
than you yourself Like you just got you guys just
said it don't be the story all back to that,
like that's it. So teaching teaching my child, I'm absolutely
going to teach how to coach it because I think
it's essential for survival. But as far as changing who
you are for the sake of doing it, that I complete.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
And then it becomes an identity issue, which you don't
want to happen a specially the kids. I don't feel
like I've ever had to with the boys. I don't
think I've ever had to correct them on how to
say something. And it could be because they're not growing
up in Brooklyn like we did. So they may not
sound like Brooklyn kids. They may get flat for that,
growing up like you were born in Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
But they're gonna get f they do. Like when they
go back to Brooklyn, they be like, yo, why you
talk like that? And I constantly tell them. Maybe this
is another reason why I feel like I tell my
kids all the time, You're not going to be defined
by how you speak. You're not going to be defined
by how you look, bro. You're going to be defined
by what you put out in the world. The essence
you put out in the world is going to define you.

(38:12):
Anybody who says you have to be this way, or
sound this way or do this because of the way
you look, it's not a person you want to be
around anyway. And I gotta tell my kids that all
the time. We talked about this on another one and
we're going to talk about the black excellence, you know,
it's like, what does black excellence look like?

Speaker 4 (38:27):
Right?

Speaker 3 (38:27):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (38:28):
We have a whole other podcast we're going to talk
about that. But I don't think black excellence is just
assimilating to whiteness or aspiring to in a black version.
You know what I'm saying. I think sometimes we get
lost in that. It's like, let's just aspire to do
everything white people do in a black way, and that's
black excellence. What if I want to do something that
white people have never done before, that's not excellent, even

(38:50):
if it's great, you know what I'm saying, Like, I
don't want my definition of who I am to always
be compared to anything or anybody problematic.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
That's why I'm this whole thing is problem and it's
wouldn't being problematic. It is losing yourself just to assimilate
to something else. It's hurtful for not just your generation, Beach.
You're gonna teach that to other people and they're gonna
find a problem with it when other people aren't doing
the same thing as you.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Baby, that's literally mean think about us. You become from
a similar backgrounds. It's like being always concerned about what
everybody's gonna think, and then you create this version of
who you think people want you to be, and then
you sometimes don't even know who you are. You try
to figure out you know, and then it's like I'm
doing all of this for what? For who?

Speaker 6 (39:33):
Exactly, and I think too. You ask what I raised
my kids to speak black? Well, first of all, I
would raise my children to be black and to appreciate
their blackness and celebrate it and not shrink it or
change it for any other reason. So if I my
kids started growing up and I realized that they don't
sound like I do, I think that children, in the

(39:54):
way that they speak, they are affected by their environment.
So kids spend a lot of time at school. If
they go to a white school, they're going to talk
like the people around them. But if they know that,
if they're not doing that because they want to sound white,
which is why some people do code switch or have
code switch historically, is because proximity to whiteness. I need
to sound more white in order to be accepted and

(40:16):
taken seriously in these spaces. Not necessarily because you want
to sound more eloquent or you want to be able
to or rate, but it's because this is how the
white people talk, I should talk like them so that
I don't stand out as a black person.

Speaker 5 (40:29):
I don't think.

Speaker 6 (40:30):
I wouldn't want my children to think that way. I
would always want them to be steadfast in their identity
as a black person, And I don't think that being
black means that you can't speak a certain way, you
know what I'm saying. I do think that black people,
specifically in certain regions do speak in certain ways, but

(40:50):
that doesn't make people that don't speak like that less black.

Speaker 5 (40:53):
I don't think that is true.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
That's why I think that that's where I think the
message gets lost a little bit.

Speaker 6 (40:58):
Well. Code switching is particular to speaking a different way
in order to be accepted or taken seriously in certain spaces. So,
like Cadeen said, she code switched when she was around
black people because at home she was taught to speak
a certain way. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're trying
to talk white or that you're trying to be white,

(41:18):
but code switching means that you're trying to fit in.
And so when it does happen that you are black
and you code switch in white spaces, you're doing that
because you have an internalized assumption that the people around
you are not going to accept you for speaking in
the way that you naturally speak as a black person,
or using the vernacular that you use that you've been

(41:39):
taught to use as a black person, that you have
to kind of change your identity, to shrink your identity
in order to fit in better with those folks, when
you shouldn't have to because the work should speak for itself.
If you're the CEO of a company, you're a black CEO,
and you come in talking like you know whatever, are
you going to be afraid that the white people that

(42:00):
work under you are not going to take you seriously?
And so you're gonna have to use a different type
of voice or a different type of language in order
to get them to pay attention to what you're doing,
even if you're the best at what you do.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
I understand that, but I understand it. But this is
my challenge though. Right if I say to you or
you right now, while you do this good as a woman,
you should do this like a woman. Do that like
a woman? How does that make you feel?

Speaker 5 (42:26):
People do that?

Speaker 1 (42:27):
I just ask the question, though I asked to answer
the question. If I say to you, do this like
a woman, you do that like a woman, don't that
make you feel like that person's putting you in a box?

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Absolutely, So when we say the black man, you don't
talk like a black man, what do you think that
does to us? It puts us in a box. When
you say a black man talks like a black man,
it puts us in a box. What I'm saying is
is the same way it makes you feel as a woman,
when someone puts a label on you, it puts us
in the same box when you tell us as a

(42:58):
black man, you speak like a black man? What does
that even mean? Like right now you just put like
I only am supposed to speak this way. I'm just
saying that I think that it's problematic. I'm not saying
that it's going anywhere. I'm not saying that it doesn't
exist for women because it does the same way I said,
how does it make you feel? And your first response
is will people still do that? Doing it make you

(43:18):
feel bad? That's because it's problematic. That's what I'm saying
is that this whole idea of a black person has
to speak a black way that is problematic. I'm not
saying that it doesn't exist, the saying is problematic.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
What I was agreeing with with Triple just now saying
is that if a black man, for example, were to
walk into an office with his white counterparts, and maybe
he's in some sort of role where he's trying to
be a leader or he wants a leadership role in
space and he doesn't speak, you know, or code switch,
then a lot of times in those particular circumstances, maybe
they may not take him seriously or may not think
that understood the job. He has shown improved and already

(43:55):
has some kind of status, you know, with certain people
in general, when you reach a certain status, you could
talk however you want to talk. So I feel like
Ryan Cooler, for example, is that like he's just like Yo,
I could talk my shit, however, I want to talk
my shit right now to whoever in whatever space, because
this is who I am, and I have this movie
that has been historic behind me that nobody can't tell

(44:16):
me about. So that's what I was agreeing with you
when you said that it's like, Yo, you walk into
a space and you haven't shown improved yourself yet, then yeah,
you may have to code switch along the way to
get to where you got to.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
Im in agreement with everything y'all said. All I'm saying
is that it's problematic, and y'all are not trying to
see how problematic it is.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
You see it, I'm saying about it.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
But what I'm saying is is that Triple still hasn't
said it's problematic, because.

Speaker 6 (44:37):
I don't think that it's problematic. And I don't think
that black dialect is a problematic thing. I don't think
that acknowledging that there is a such thing as black
dialect is a problematic thing.

Speaker 5 (44:46):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
I don't, and that's fine. We don't have to agree.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
I just think we've acknowledged it right that it is
a problem.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Are you saying that she doesn't think that it's a problem.
That's what I'm saying. You're missing.

Speaker 6 (44:55):
I'm not saying that all black people have to speak
a certain way. I think that you brought up the
femininity or doing things like a woman. That's a great example,
because that is something that I have also had to do.
I'm not particularly feminine, and all through my life in college,
especially being in a sorority, I would make myself more

(45:17):
feminine in ways that did not feel comfortable for me.
But as I got stronger in my identity and understood
that this is my version of femininity, I don't have
to conform to somebody else's version.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
People it's a triple. Do you think that people make
assumptions about you just off of how you naturally present,
which is I'm not sure in spaces that you're in,
what like, what feedback do you get from people with
just how you show up. We're a woman that some
people may not know when they look at you that
you are.

Speaker 5 (45:48):
I mean all types.

Speaker 6 (45:49):
I'm not, like I said, like, I'm not particularly feminine
in the way that I speak, or the way that
I walk, and or you know what I'm saying, the
way that I relate to other people.

Speaker 5 (45:59):
People always say.

Speaker 6 (46:03):
But I know that the women that I grew up around,
I get my effeminity from them.

Speaker 5 (46:08):
So this is my version of femininity.

Speaker 6 (46:11):
I think that the same thing comes with language the
places that you grow up, That's how you learn to communicate,
That's how you learn to speak if you grow up
in you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (46:20):
So I don't know.

Speaker 6 (46:21):
I have learned over the years to celebrate the ways
the parts of my identity and the way that they
are instead of trying to assimilate or instead of trying
to code switch, instead of trying to make other people
comfortable with me.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
You know, it's take me as I am.

Speaker 6 (46:39):
Take me as I am, and you can either you
can work on your own comfort.

Speaker 5 (46:43):
I'm not gonna do that for you. That's your work.
It's my mind.

Speaker 6 (46:46):
I'm comfortable. I'm working on my comfort, you work on yours.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Okay, anything anything else that we have to say as
we round out code switching, really really good insightful conversation here.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
To be honest, bro, I understand where Trible is coming from,
Like I underst just.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Want to say it's problematic. No, no, no, no problematic y'all.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
I want to say that it's problematic.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yes, Trier experience.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
My experience is different. And to be honest, that's the
whole point of having a podcast is that we don't
have to agree. Her perspective is no less more important
than mine. Is just different. And that's the most important part.
That's how you feel trouble oh shit, based on what
you've been through, based on what you're saying. I can
understand that, which I can understand that from my perspective.

(47:33):
I just think it's problematic. Like the fact that even
even the fact that we had to have a conversation
me and Matt watched the whole thing and talked about
the seventy millimeter and the IMAX thing, and it was cool, right.
The fact that the internet is talking about how he
talks and still don't understand the difference in the preferations
of the film is the problem. That's why it was problematic,

(47:55):
was because y'all don't even understand that he sat down
for seven minutes and explain the difference in the prefaces.
And all black people said was that niggas sound like
he's from Oakland, because that's my nigga. And I'm like,
did y'all go see the movie? Do y'all understand differently?
But I do understand where Triple's coming from. Is like,
I was prideful. And the fact that he did sound
like himself.

Speaker 6 (48:15):
Yeah, And the fact that people don't know what he's
talking about is probably the reason why they were so
proud in that moment. They were like, Wow, he's getting
super technical. He is a expert in his field. Sure,
And I don't know what he's talking about because I've
never studied this and I never even thought to do that.
But the thing that I can relate to is that
this is a black man explaining to me something that

(48:35):
I've never heard of before.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
I think that people just make me pride.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
He's not a rolling out. Oh he started rolling out
all the different fields and stuff. I was just like
you say, Okay, good glad we saw it.

Speaker 6 (48:47):
In seventy and especially in a time where we are
right now, where DEI and stuff is being pushed back
because white people think that black.

Speaker 5 (48:57):
People are just giving what we have.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Absolutely, and you.

Speaker 6 (49:00):
Watched Ryan Coogler talk about his craft and the technical aspects,
and you think, oh, this nigger.

Speaker 5 (49:05):
Did go to film school.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
He has been.

Speaker 5 (49:07):
Doing this for a long time over here exactly.

Speaker 6 (49:11):
So yeah, I think being proud of being it's true
to our identity and the best at what we do.
I mean, yeah, I'm gonna be like yeah, and that
nigg got brain period period.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
All Right, y'all, great conversation. Let's go take another break,
Payson Bills and come back into listener letter. We'll be back.
All right, now we're back, but Listener Letters, let's see

(49:46):
what we're talking about this week. Hi, I really need
some advice about my marriage. I'm twenty six years old
and my husband is twenty seven. We've been together for
eleven years, but going on three years of marriage. Eleven years,
so that was earlier fifteen. Yeah, okay, we recently had
our second child, and I'm trying to keep the dating
aspect of marriage alive. Lately, it feels like we put

(50:09):
our children before our marriage. For example, when we have
a conversation, it will most likely be about the kids
rather than us. There are even times when we put
the kids to bed and finally have alone time, we
discuss what we have to do for the kids, like
doctor's appointments, etc. I'm not a selfish person. I love
talking about the joy that our kids bring us, but
I don't always want them to be the topic of conversation.
I just want the relationship to somewhat get back to

(50:31):
how it was before we got married and had kids. Deval,
I love the way you treat Kadeen, and you guys
still have fun with one another like you guys did
before the kids. I thought about going out on a
date once a month, but I'm not sure that that
will be enough. Please give me some advice as to
how I can put my marriage before my children. Love
you guys, and make God continue to bless you and

(50:51):
your family. Yeah's did you read the book? Did you
read We Overhurt Me? There is literally a chapter in
here that says.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
The kids don't come fir.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
First, and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you
realize that if your unit as husband and wife is
not strong. So the thing is I realized through this
conversation here, well through their listening letter itself, that it
didn't seem that there's a problem. It's just that the
children tend to always be the topic of conversation. So
it looks like maybe since you have to initiate the
date night where you say to hubby, like, listen, the

(51:27):
kids are off the table, the kids are fine. The
kids will be fine, They'll be there. Now, let's tap
back into us, because that's several times the conversation de
valen I would have.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, we I mean, bottom line is me and me
and Matt talked about this being when Matt newly married.
Your partner wants to be desired. That's not a man
or woman thing, that's just a partner thing. Your partner
wants to be desired, Which means when you're at the
table for dinner and you're at your phone talking about
the kids or something, you're not desiring your partner. Right
if your mind is somewhere else and you're thinking about

(51:56):
what the kids have to do. You're not desiring your partner,
talk about what your partner is in interested in. If
your partner is interested in theater and makeup or whatever
it is, Find whatever your partner is interested in so
that they can feel desirable. We should do a whole
topic on that about helping your partners stay desirable, because
we talked about that as men. But the funny thing
is that it like spiraled into like, well, how does

(52:18):
your wife want to be desirable? And then me and
Matt was talking about that in the gym, So that's
actually a good.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Episode, Like y'all were working on your bodies.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
No matter of fact, it literally wasn't there no shirt
on polls together talking about like yo, like we as
men want to look steps Josh here stoops and too
because he's not in shape.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Josh, but innocent bystander.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
We were talking about how like we trying to make
ourselves more desirable for y'all. But then it was just like, yo,
like y'all want to be desirable too, because when did
you take christ to that day to the batting cage?
He took us to the batting cage because that's something
she wanted to do, and it was almost the idea
of like, yo, like she wants to be desirable, I'm
gonna take her to what she wants to do so

(53:09):
she can live in this space of feeling seen. And
so many times being desirable has nothing to do with
how you look, but just being seen by your parser.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
So then think about that. Since who wrote in here, like,
maybe think about a way that your partner can be
seen and it's something specific just for your partner. There
you go that they're into whatever it is they're into,
you know, billiards, So you go to a billiards hall
and you play, and then that might take away the
parent aspect and the children from it and they feel
like themselves again, you know. And that's ultimately I think

(53:40):
what within marriage you're always trying to chase still feeling
like yourself, but still being a contributing member to your
partnership as well as your family. So good luck. I
don't think that you have too many issues here. The
fact that you guys have been together this long, since
that young and are still doing well. I just tap
back in because there's longevity in that were proof. All right, y'all,
shall we wrap it up?

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Honey?

Speaker 2 (54:02):
You tell me what Okay, so moment of truth time.
Let's jump into that.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
But now, if you'd like to be featured as one
of our listeners, email us at E L O I
S A D V I C E at gmail dot com.
Kate don't even want to do a job no more.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
I'm sorry. I'm getting over this sinus affection. So I'm
so struggling a.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Bit green that came out. That's why she went green.
She dressed like.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
The value are crazy. I'm sorry, y'all if I sound
a little funny and I may be a little out
of it today, that's that's it.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
You came through for them, I.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Said, everybody's in town. Josh flew into town. Matt said,
all this ship up I had to make, So give
me a little grace today, y'all. I'm definitely on meds
and you know, barely making it. Didn't sleep well, all right,
So now we can get into moment of truth. Thank you,
baby for picking up what I dropped.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah, it's just all right, baby, I always picking up
you dropping in a lot.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
All right, let's finish out with a quick moment of truth.
Let's start with trouble.

Speaker 5 (54:58):
Moment of truth. How however, you are black, you deserve
the world. Be yourself, period.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
I like that one.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
However, you are black, you deserve the world. Put that
on the shirt.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
The shirt well trible, we talked about your shirt.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
However, you are black, you deserve that.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
You need to start the list.

Speaker 5 (55:16):
I have a list.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Good good, that's trouble. That's what you should be.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
How I want mine to say?

Speaker 3 (55:22):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
I want one that says okay with okay triple just
put that down there, thank you, okay, Josh, your turn?

Speaker 3 (55:29):
All right, So Mama wanted. Truth is coach bsiness. Coach
business is okay. But doing with it you make an accent.

Speaker 7 (55:37):
That's funny because that was gonna be my moment. You
have to speak properly when you go into people place.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
I mean, if you if you are talking properly and
you say something like blood clotch, does there you go?

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Josh?

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Can you please lock off the blood closs camera? Thank you, Josh, period.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Matt, he took mine, baby, my.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Moment of truth. I'm actually gonna piggyback off of Josh
Man like code Switshing has more to do about the
environment you're in than you yourself. So remain true to
who you are, but be able to move in any environment,
because if you're black, you deserve.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
The world, period. And for me, it just piggybacks off
of that and goes back to my soundbit at the
very beginning. There is a time and place for everything,
So do what you're comfortable with, but never change who
you are, all right, y'all? I love that for us.
Patreon Ganggang, what's up y'all been tapping in and we love, love,
love to have y'all. Be sure to find us on

(56:46):
Patreon if you are not there yet to see the
after show and more exclusive Ellis ever After podcast content,
and you can find us on social media at Ellis
ever After.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
I'm Kaden, I am and I am devou And if
you're listening on Apple Podcast, be sure to rate, review
and subscribe.

Speaker 7 (57:04):
Yeah he did it again, y'all. He forgot to ask
y'all what to follow us Ellis.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
Y'all scoring Matt dot Ellis follow all right. You can
double click on my flex at Joshua Duane you had it,
didn't practice this morning when he said it to think

(57:33):
about you. You could double click on my flicks at
Joshua Underscore Dwayne period.

Speaker 7 (57:38):
Like that.

Speaker 5 (57:40):
I'm at trips, the Cool t R I B b Z,
the Cool on everything.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Because she's just so cool, y'all. All right, we'll see
you next time.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Dead Ass.

Speaker 6 (57:51):
Cut Ellis ever Apter is an iHeartMedia podcast. It's hosted
by Kadeen and Deval Ellis. It's produced by Triple Video,
production by Joshua Duane and Matthew Ellis, video editing by
Lachan Roe.

Speaker 8 (59:04):
Has to give the Hans If the Hans in the

(59:26):
hands

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Gree