Navigating Burnout

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
SoundBite.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
What I'm about to say may surprise you, but it
is very possible to get burnt out even doing the
things you love to do.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Very interesting take.

Speaker 4 (00:13):
That's why Me with Me Burnout is synonymous with book
that flight and get the fuck out.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Of here.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
In a bikini.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
You see the bees, the bees keep rolling, Baby burnout
on the beach.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'll let you have it.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
It all started with real talk, unfiltered, honest and straight
from the heart. Since then, we've gone on to become
Webby Award winning podcasters in New York Times best selling authors.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
That ass was more than a podcast for us. It
was about our growth, a place where we could be vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Be raw, or but most apportly be us.

Speaker 4 (00:50):
But as we know, life keeps evolving and so do we,
and through it all, one thing has never changed.

Speaker 5 (00:56):
This is.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
You got a lot to talk about story time.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Story time, So I'm gonna tell you all about a
burnout opportunity.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Well, not burnout, that's not even an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
A burned out time in my life where I didn't
even know I was getting burned out until I was
burnt out.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Y'all know, I'm an athlete. I love sports. I love basketball.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I like football. I don't love football. I liked football,
but I did love to play it. When I was
playing and going into my fourth season in the NFL,
I had just signed with the Browns and they had
fired Romeo Cornell. They brought in Eric Mangini, and I
was going to practice every day doing what I had
to do, doing my lists and stuff like that. And

(01:40):
then they started bringing in some other rookies and some
other people, and before I knew it, I realized that
I just didn't want to be here no more like before.
It was happening before my eyes, but I didn't realize it.
And I started to realize it. When you know me,
in ten years of football that you've been a part of,
have I been late to a meeting?

Speaker 5 (02:01):
Not one?

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Have I ever been late to workouts?

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Not I ever missed in life? Not one.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
So I remember going OTAs Monday, walking into meetings. I'm
three minutes late. Coaches like the Value late. It was
like my full coach Tuesday, come in there and fall asleep,
like the Val if you sleep and you might want
to just step out. Then I got up and just

(02:28):
walked out. And it was in that moment that I realized, like, Yo,
I'm fucking burnt out, like I'm over this.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
I don't want to do it no more.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
I didn't. I didn't want to do it no more.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
And when they called me right before we went back
to camp and they were like, hey, Devo, we're gonna
let you go. We're gonna sign some draft picks, I
just said okay and hung up the phone.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Got need a dissertation. I didn't.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
And in that moment, now that I look back on it,
I realized that I was burnt out. Like I went
from being a walk a free agent, no, a walk
onege having to always prove myself every day, and the
free agent in the NFL having to proved myself every day,
even though it was doing something I love.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
I was fucking over it, and you were tired of
having to prove yourself. Yes, I get it. I was
surprised when that happened. But here we are.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
It happens now. For karaoke.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
I'm gonna let Key sing the song because I don't
know the words. I'm just being honest, y'all.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
I have no I kid the words.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
I know that I know the first the six words.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
When you feel it in me. Nobody who make you
change your ways? Like with your crew?

Speaker 4 (03:42):
Will you act like you're ready, but you don't really know?
And everything in the past, you want to let it
go in the done it after all that, This is
what I found. Nobody wants to be alone. If you
touched by the words in the song, and baby.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
You got it that's wrong song. We got trouble.

Speaker 6 (04:09):
That's the wrong.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
So that's not let it burn. You got it bad? Well,
you know who got it bad? We got it bad, bad, bad?

Speaker 6 (04:20):
Yo?

Speaker 3 (04:21):
How did we get there?

Speaker 1 (04:22):
We always there's supposed to be let it burn. It
was supposed to.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Be let it burn.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
H shoot, no doubt that's what you got it mad? No, no, no, no, no, nobody,
Now we have to be starry.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
Why are we all drawing a blank right now? It's
because we're all.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
You got it bad, that's let it burn, lett it
burn ley.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
You know it's bad for yourself, but you, in the
thought of a thing with someone else, say.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
You know that it's over letty bird. I mean, I
guess that does apply. And that's why we wanted to
sing that song.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
We got to it. We got to it all. We
took a turn. It was the wrong way.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
That's the first time that's happened in karaoke that we
sang the entire first verse into the wrong as chorus.
You know what it was to we were over here,
just our mind was blown because the video went out
recently of USh.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
You're saying, who's in the streets, not cruising the streets?
We all know and I thought we knew that. It
was seven o'clock on the dot.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
He's in his drop top cruising the streets.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
He said, who's in the streets? Baby?

Speaker 2 (05:43):
I got a real pretty pretty it's about sitting next me.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
I mean, now it's a whole Usher concerts is.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Here in the building. What you expect?

Speaker 4 (05:58):
Even more reason why we should have known what the
damn soul was. That's hilarious that that happened. All right, Well,
clearly we need to take a break. We need to reconvene,
get our ship together, and then we'll be back to
talk more about navigating burnout.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Stick around, y'all, and we're back, and we're back, guys.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
My favorite part of the show.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
Yeah, well, do you want to touch based on story
time real quick or we'll get into that in the
meat of the show.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
Let's do let's do perfect triple. Is your time to shine?

Speaker 7 (06:30):
John.

Speaker 5 (06:30):
Since we're talking about work today, I figured I would
talk about an actor since we got two actors amongst us.
I'm talking about me and the voices in my head.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
What do you mean?

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah? Will Smith?

Speaker 5 (06:48):
Though he has an album coming out, he's a rapper again,
which is.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Put him in a box. He started that way, don't
put him in a box.

Speaker 5 (06:56):
I guess if you slap somebody on live TV, you
gotta come out with a roar.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
He is spiritual, He's in a different place. He's not the
same person anymore. You want Wilson to come out with
a game, It's not gonna happen, but I would buy it.

Speaker 5 (07:17):
Though he's been on a promo tour promoting his album,
his upcoming album, and he went on a streamers platform recently,
and this specific streamer asked him to name his Mount
Rushmore of actors top four actors of all time, and
the first actor he named was himself. Of course, he
said he got to put hisself on there. But the
other three he named were Denzel Washington.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
I get that, Daniel da Lewis, I get that, and
Marlon Brando.

Speaker 8 (07:44):
Why he said it though I can understand he's older
people Revere the Godfather, So I can't understand why he said.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
I get it.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
I have no.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
I have no. That's his list. I have no.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Well, who's on your Mount Rush?

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Who's on my Mount rushmore?

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Wowut If I start with commercial success and also want
to Oscar, I would have to start with will Smith,
Like he's box office Willie. Nobody else has done in
the movie space what he's done. If I'm talking about
art films and range and the ability to play a
bunch of different characters and just be great, like I'm

(08:21):
gonna go with Denzel Washington. My favorite actor of all
times everybody knows is Wesley Snipes. He pretty much created
the Marvel universe. He's played everything from Chu Wang Fuo
to What's the Other when White Man can't Jump play Blade.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Like New Jack City. There's no role that he hasn't played.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
He played a baseball player in major leagues, like Wesley
Snipe has done everything. And if I have to go
with one more man we're talking about range, and we're
talking about commercial success and the ability to do everything,
it will be a toss up between Samuel l and.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Lawrence Fishburn. Be honest, I like to keep it black.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
But Daniel day Lewis, Tom Hanks, uh, Leonardo DiCaprio, Like,
if I'm being honest and not keeping it black, you
can't have a Mount Rushmore without Leonardo DiCaprio, Daniel day Lewis,
and Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks is the only actor ever
to win two Oscars back to back as the leading man.
So those would be like putting it in around Mount Rushmore,

(09:24):
just those four, I can't do it. And the reason
why I stay black. I go with black verst is
because Hollywood wasn't created.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
For black people.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
So for those black men to have that success with
the amount of rules that's not written for us, I
always give them the nine. But that's not taking away
from the talent of our white counterparts.

Speaker 8 (09:40):
Sorry, but I had exact reasons why I have Sidney
Poitier in my top five. Sidney Poitier broke the barrier
for a lot of the people to do anything that
they're doing.

Speaker 7 (09:48):
You know what, he set the bar you know what.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
I can't even now we say that Sidney pot did.
What about Morgan Freeman?

Speaker 5 (09:57):
So it's interesting you're naming these people. So there's a
there's a documentary coming out later this month called uh
Yeah that's going to talk about the success of a
lot of these black actors, which I'm excited to watch.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Excited.

Speaker 5 (10:14):
Next, I guess we can talk about politics a little bit.
Uh So recently Trump and Trump, the President, our president.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
The people that president, and the people of them.

Speaker 5 (10:28):
Yeah, President sign in executive order to dismantle the Department
of Education, which is insane. The Department of Education, they
control uh funding for education and higher education grants, uh
funding for services for children with disability. So a lot
of people think this is going to put people who

(10:50):
are already at risk further behind, like low income families
and special education students, and it's going to widen educational disparities.
So the Trump's idea behind this is to give power back.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
To the states.

Speaker 5 (11:04):
I think something that we understand about the Civil War
is that apparently it was about states, right, So here
we are back.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
I'm glad you brought that up.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
I'm so glad you brought up the Civil War because
if people understand where the Department of Education came from,
they would understand why this is.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Never for us as black people.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Anyway, Right after the Civil War, the DC was created.
The UDC is the United Daughters of the Confederacy led
by a woman called named Mildred Rutherford, and Mildred Rutherford's
whole purpose of the United Daughters of the Confederacy was
to uphold the lost cause in doctrination. The lost cause

(11:40):
in doctrination was the indoctrination that the Confederacy was here
to save America. So what they did was they changed
all of the textbooks that we see federally to become whitewashed.
That's why there's no black history in the textbooks. So
for me, the dismantling of the Department of Education for
the federal level takes away the power of the federal

(12:00):
level to tell all of our kids what they're going
to learn in schools. Now, him giving it to the
local leaders like states, allows the governors and the mayors
to decide how they're going to educate and the funding
they're going to use for their constituents, which.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
I think makes it a little bit more tangible for
people in their respective states. But if you're in those
local elections and you're, you know, lobbying for the things
that you want, then there's probably a greater chance of
you getting those things now.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
If now the problem is doing that.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
If you cut the Board of Education, the federal funding
that comes down to these states get cut as well.
And a lot of that federal funding was to help
people who look like us. So I'm kind of torn.
I'm torn because our people need the funding, especially since
we pay taxes. We need that funding to educate our kids.

(12:49):
But I'm torn because the education they teach our kids
is not the real education.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
I give you a perfect example. Jackson just last month had.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
To do a story or had to do a report
on Western expansion, and all of the stuff they talked
about in Western Expansion never talked about the black the
black cowboys and the black sheriffs, and the people who
actually built this country.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
The Asians that came over here.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
All of the stories was about what the US government
did to help grow America.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
And I was like, this is not real history.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
You know what I'm saying. I said, Jack you ever
heard about black holes? He was like, no, only from you.
And that leads me to my point. I don't care
what they do with the Department of Education because I
am going to always educate my kids period. Like whatever
funding they pull, I'm going to make sure that my
kids understand who they are and where they stand when
it comes to history.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
So my opinion on the Department of Education is, let
the federal government do what they gotta do. I'm gonna
make sure my kids know period.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
Yeah, I love that opera.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
No opp from the rest of the crew.

Speaker 7 (13:52):
I got no op because I'm not going to say
anything as eloquent, but.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
People know that history.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
I wrote the book that book. I wrote the book
The Ellis is in a time machine. Like I learned
about Mildred Rutherfoot should had my skin crawl like so
y'all actually had a woman go into the textbooks and say,
we're not going to say this.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
We're going to say this just to uphold and.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
For people who don't know what the Lost Cause in
doctrination is, go back and watch.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Birth of a Nation, the very first Birth of a Nation,
which was.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
The first movie that played in the White House right
during reconstruction, and the movie was of white men in
blackface terrorizing the people of America, and the klu Klux
Klan came to save Americans because after well during reconstruction,
the story they told of the Lost Cause was that
they finally allowed slaves and people of color to be

(14:43):
a part of the government, and they ran the government rampant,
and they needed the KKK to come save the people
of America from the black men that were raping and stealing.
That's the lost cause in doctrination, the fact that the
Confederacy was about states' rights and it wasn't about slavery.
So what they're continuously doing is trying to indoctrinate generations

(15:03):
that the Confederacy was here to save America, not that
they were pretty much treason this people who tried to
separate from the Union and lost.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
The biggest thing is that the Confederacy.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Lost the war, the Civil War, and they never wanted
to talk about them losing the war. So I think
it's important for people to understand where the Department of
Education sits and our people not just about funds, because
they will give our people funds and then have someone
educate them incorrectly.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
That's just my opinion on it. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
But I mean, we've never relied on the textbooks ever.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
All of our kids have tutors and mentors, Like even
when we didn't have money, Padeen and Deval was in
that book with Jackson, Like, that's how I learned about
so much of this stuff.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
I was about to say, Deva's mom was just here
visiting with the boys, and I had gotten these little
flash cars that are just like black history flash cars
and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Her eyes lit up. She was like, Yeah, I want
to go for some of these with the kids, because
your mom lived through.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
My mom lived through the end of the degregation, and
she was in Brooklyn and they had finally ended segregation
in the late sixties or early seventies, and she was
one of the first group of black kids to go
to school in Marine integrated and they were chased out
of those schools every single day. So my mom doesn't
play when it comes to education. That's why I am

(16:25):
the way I am. And that's that's also why I'm
so pro bleak history, because that history lives in me.
Like this to me isn't just opinions. These are facts
that my mom made sure I knew, so Department of Education,
I never rely on that. My mom used to sit
in all of the meetings and talk about funding. How
come none of this funding is going towards arts or
going towards this. My mom used to sit in the
meetings to be like this ain't right, and I realized,

(16:47):
like the federal government doesn't have the amount of power
people think they have when it comes to educating our
people and our kids. So parents, if you're listening, handle
that yourself. Don't even leave that up to them.

Speaker 5 (16:58):
And just imagine parents who who have to work, single parents,
have multiple children time. Yes, plus, this was an alarming
stat that I read the other day. Fifty six percent
of American adults have a reading level below sixth grade.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
So a lot of parents shocking.

Speaker 5 (17:18):
No, it's not shocking, but I'm just saying a lot
of a lot of parents don't even have, you know,
the intelligence to teach their children. And that's what we're
going to So we have to really rely on community
in this time to try to make sure that our
kids don't get left behind.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
That's a problem on what you just said, And it
doesn't surprise me fifty six percent because most people don't
value school or education.

Speaker 5 (17:43):
In our in our parents generation, a lot of times
they couldn't they had to make other choices.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
That is true when I think about my grandmother. My
grandmother couldn't go to high school. She had to take
care of her siblings because there was six of them
and she was the oldest.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
That is a very valid point.

Speaker 5 (17:59):
And uh, back on the subject of burnout, I saw
a TikTok recently a woman named doctor Claire Ashley talking
about burnout, and she said that it takes on average
one to three years to recover from burnout. But she
said there's five stages of burnout that can help you
identify burnout quickly quicker, so that you can recover quicker,

(18:21):
just in case.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
So are you interested in hearing I.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Would hear that's the perfect segue.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Well, all right.

Speaker 5 (18:26):
Stage one is the honeymoon phase, she said. This is
when you start a new job. You're really excited, and
so because you're so excited, you might take on more
work than you actually can handle and trying to prove yourself,
try to prove yourself excited about the work, excited to
do the thing. Yeah, and then that will lead you
into phase two, which is the onset of stress. This
is when you start to notice that things becoming more

(18:49):
stressful you or you start to have more stressful days
than non stressful days, and you start to notice that
you might be getting frustrated you might be feeling a
little bit overwhelmed, and that can lead to chronic stress
if you don't do anything about it at that point,
it will lead to the third phase, which is chronic stress.
And this when you're chronically stressed, it affects your ability

(19:09):
to concentrate. You're less productive and you feel more overwhelmed, overwhelmed, yeah,
and then that leads to the fourth stage, which is
actual burnout where this is where the apathy really kicks in.
You're feeling detached from your friends, detached from your family,
detached from your emotions, yeah, detached from the work, and
you're feeling a level of exhaustion that goes.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Along with it.

Speaker 5 (19:32):
And then that leads to the fifth stage of burnout,
which is habitual burnout, which is a loss of joy
in basically anything retired.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
You might yeah.

Speaker 5 (19:45):
Yeah, when you lose that, yeah, it can lead to
unhealthy habits, you know, seeking out dopamine to be.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Numb so that you don't have to feel what's happening.
You did that not describe everything?

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Then? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (20:03):
So I see a correlation between burnout and having kids.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
Honey, labor delivery, postpartum, Oh shit is linked together.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
You got labor delivery, no pregnancy, pregnancy first, then you
got labor delivery, and you have after.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
From postpartum, but sleep deprivation on top.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
Of all of that, all the things burnt burnout is
a lot. Yeah, literally just want to be like by
my Well, what is it? How does it manifest itself
in you? Because for you with burnout, I know that
there's a detachment that happens that you just kind of
let go or coping mechanisms to deal with burnout. For me,
I know when I'm burnt out, I just want to
shut everything down, Like I don't want to be around people,

(20:46):
don't I want to be by myself. I don't want
to do anything. I want to find the ways that
I can find joy. Sometimes that's not leaving my bed.
Sometimes that's continuously you know, watching a good show in
time with just my kids and my husband. Like those
are the things for me, I know I can find
a little bit of like recovery from For.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Me, I have to be purposeful about taking time for myself.
Like what I've started to do now, I don't wake
up my days anymore prepared to handle today. I don't
wake up like I used to wake up phone check
my accounts.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
That's a good point.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
How much how much money came in, how much money
they came in, what came out? Let me call my advisor,
let me find out what it is. Then after that,
I checked my Instagram, my YouTube. I just make sure
that all my analytics is working right. Then it's like
the minute I woke up, I used to wake up.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
That's what it was.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
So it's like you woke up and almost inviting burnout business, yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Which which I found to be terrible for me. Like
I was gaining weight. My eyes used to be super
dark all the time. My hair was crazy, crazy thing,
you know what I'm saying. Like my body, even my
body five percentage. Matt was like, yoall looked at video
of you last year and didn't realize that you were
a lot bigger, Like I could see it in your face,
and I realized that I have in order to navigate burnout.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
You can't let burnout happen. Right.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
The first thing of navigating is don't get burnt out.
So I wake up in the morning. The for every
first thing I do when I wake up is I
go to the bathroom, brush my teeth, go to my fridge,
take my ginger shot and drink my warm tea with
my probiotic and I just sit for a minute.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Sit, I meditate, I think about what it is I
want to do in life.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
Then I go work out, spend my hour and a
half focusing on myself and my body. At that point,
I've rested my gut, because you know, gut health is important.
I've stretched, I've meditated, I've made sure everything that was
important to myself first was taken care of. Then I
checked my count then I check my Instagram then. So

(22:51):
for me, navigating burnout was to make sure the vow
was okay first, and I never used to do that.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah, yeah, for me with burnout, I realized that it
was happening when I or we you know, essentially were
chasing all of the things that we felt like we
needed to chase in order to be successful within this
career field. Right so, knowing the entertainment industry, the film

(23:17):
and television industry, now the social media industry, which has
become pretty much our livelihoods, for me, it was just like,
how can I chase every bag? You know, exist in
every opportunity because you never know at one point this
will be gone, Like we were saying in another episode,
ten years ago, social media and becoming a content creator
wasn't a thing. So I almost felt like for a

(23:39):
long time, like, at any point, this may not be
a thing anymore, So let me try to maximize and
capitalize on the opportunity now while I can, because taking
this opportunity may lead to that next big break. And
last year specifically, I realized like man like, I almost
felt like we were hustling backwards in a sense because
I'm like, if I'm taking this gig and it's not

(24:01):
going to move the needle for me and in a
way that's successful for or could potentially be successful for
my career or from a professional standpoint, then it's like,
am I just going to every event just to be seen,
you know, sitting on every panel just to say you're
on a panel, to be posting that you're all doing something?
Or is this something that's really going to bring fulfillment
actually potentially bring me future opportunities. Is it going to

(24:23):
take me out of my home for an extended period
of time that I don't need to be away from home.
Those are the things that I had to start processing
and kind of asking myself to prevent eventually being burnt out.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
So your first thing to naviate burnout was to be like,
I'm no longer doing the things that just don't serve
me directly, like not just doing stuff to do, eliminating busy.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Work, eliminating business the biggest thing.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Do busy work, Like, yeah, I'm sitting still, then I'm
not doing anything.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
I'm not getting better exactly.

Speaker 4 (24:50):
That was how I'm feeling about it. Yeah, So that
was the first thing. Also reinvesting time into myself and
my health. So we both kind of got onto that
bandwagon where we're like, you know what, nothing is gonna
work if he and I aren't healthy. So we've been
super supportive in both of our journeys to really make
sure that from a health standpoint, we're investing in ourselves,
we're eating better, we're getting the sleep. Like team no sleep,

(25:14):
that's no longer a thing for me. Yeah, that's not
I'm gonna need my sleep. I'm gonna need my seven
to eight hours of sleep. Even when I was filming
and stuff like that, I'm like I had to prioritize
and like, am I gonna work out?

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Am I gonna study? Am I what?

Speaker 4 (25:24):
Am I gonna do in this you know, short amount
of time that I have to recover for the next day.

Speaker 3 (25:28):
And I was like, you know what, I'm going to sleep.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
But I do think team no sleep is part of
the reason why burnout is so big in this generation. Yes,
like it became a badger honor. Yeah, and it used
to be for me when I used to be like, man,
I work eighteen hours and I didn't sleep. It wasn't
until I realized how much sleep was important for my recovery,
not just physically but mentally. Like you when you don't
sleep and you can't function because your cognitive dissonance.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Is like all over the place.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
I can't even separate myself from stuff I want to
because I can't even realize what's happening. And then that's
a reality. What happens is when you don't sleep, you
start to do busy work because you really can't decide
what's important because your mind is all over the place.
So you do everything, yeah, and before you know it,
you're doing everything but also doing.

Speaker 4 (26:13):
Nothing right and you're not showing up one hundred percent anywhere.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
Everything is just kind of scattered.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
So for me, that was some of the biggest things
that I had to navigate when I realized like burnout
was definitely coming on. I realized too, that you can
be burnt out in so many different ways. Like there's
physical burnout, there's emotional burnout, there's a spiritual burnout, there's
you know, mental burnout. And I say all the time,
I feel like even just as a mom and a
wife and a business woman, like there's so many tabs
opened in my brain that I had to realize. Sometimes

(26:40):
asking for help and delegating responsibilities things like that helped
me navigate when I felt like, you know what, I
just can't do this anymore. And it's sad when it
hits you when you realize, like damn, like the love
for the things that I want to do, I can't
even do them because I don't have the energy to
do it. When I realized it was affecting the time

(27:02):
with the kids, for example, it's like I rather just
lay in bed and have some mean time versus like
wanting to chill with the kids.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Like that was a problem for burnout. Was affecting your
family and what you want to do at home. I
got a question, trouble.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
I know there are some facts and stacks about burnout right,
let me hear some of those.

Speaker 5 (27:20):
Yeah, so it's not a medical condition, but the World
Health Organization does recognize that it can cause people to
feel physically and emotionally drained or be exhausted, or they
may also feel cynical.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
But it's not a medical condition. It's not considered a
medical condition.

Speaker 5 (27:42):
No, but it can produce medical mental emotional symptoms like depression, Yeah,
like depression, anxiety, and it can make it difficult to
enjoy daily life. Some people also can have physical symptoms,
like if you have something called somatic symptom syndrome, it's
a turn it's a type of anxiety where you conflate

(28:05):
stress with physical illness, so it can mimic physical illness.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Are we not tired of all of these diagnoses? There's
like fifteen thousand versions.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
Of depression and anxiety.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
And I'm gonna be honest, bro, I I feel like
sometimes we're getting too like clinical with things because we
have kids now who are like eleven, and they're like
that have anxiety about this. I don't think I should
do this, And it's like, well, hold up, hold up,
you eleven, you don't really have no anxiety about what
you're scared.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
You know what I'm saying, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
I'm kind of torn with that because I feel like
I feel I'm.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Talking with that because I'm torn.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
I'm torn because I think as we grew up right
and we were told to just push through things and
to deal with it and this.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Is part of the chorus, and this is how you
become successful.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
It's like we just kind of put our head down
and then ignore the way we felt about a lot
of things, which is internal why I think adults, our
age millennials specifically have the.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Issues and the anxiety the things that.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
They have now versus now that we've put people on notice, like, Okay,
maybe there are days that you need a mental health day,
or you need a day to kind of just relax,
or maybe you should be.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Cognizant of how you feel mentally.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
You know what I'm saying, there's I gotta hear I
gotta hear it.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
I hear what you're saying, but it's just used too
often acknowledgy days a kid need a mental health day,
three days a kid don't want to go to school.

Speaker 9 (29:37):
Side that part, but I would not ignore the fact
that anxiety is a real thing.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
No, I'm not talking about anxiety.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I'm talking about burnout being considered a type of anxiety.
It seems like everything now is considered anxiety. If a
kid is afraid to run the four hundred in track,
he has anxiety. It's like we clinically diagnose everything everything
when sometimes I'm just like, yo, get the fucking stick
out of your ass and try.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
It has to balance.

Speaker 6 (30:08):
No, I agree.

Speaker 9 (30:09):
I think there's a there's a fear, and then there's anxiety,
and and one of most of those things can be
fear where kids are scared to do things. And then
there are some things that are legit anxieties. I know,
for example, Uh, Victoria early in her life had anxiety
that we did not understand. I especially didn't understand because

(30:30):
I don't really have anxiety about certain things. And if
I do have anxiety, I just I chalk that up
to just nerves or inexperience or just me just not
necessarily understanding the gravity of it all. But I had
to understand that her that she had anxiety, the anxiety
was real, and learn how to deal and cope and
teach her and culture through those things. So my only

(30:53):
point is to the anxiety that yes, I do agree
that everything in our society we can say, oh, it's anxiety,
But then there's a certain there's a certain place that
I had to grow up and be like, maybe I
should look into this, and I should I should probably
ignore the fact that I should ignore the tough love

(31:16):
sentiment when it comes to certain things like that.

Speaker 5 (31:19):
And I will say this on the topic of stats,
the National Alliance on Mental Health did a poll a
survey asking people about burnout or their work and their
mental health, and they shared that sixty sixty two percent
of employees who reported on the survey feeling uncomfortable about
sharing about their mental health also reported feeling burned out

(31:43):
by their jobs.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
So there's a dress.

Speaker 5 (31:46):
They did a survey on ten two thousand people in
the workforce in the United States.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
I can understand that because the United States is known
for overworking people in every aspect of But.

Speaker 5 (31:58):
My point is that if you're you're unable to share
about your mental health because you might feel that anxiety
is not a real thing, or there's too much anxiety,
or I'm just feeling something else. I don't want to
talk about my mental health because you're not gonna believe
me or it's not real or whatever.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
You're also struggling.

Speaker 5 (32:15):
You might also be challenged because you feel burnt out
and you're forcing your way through it.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
So this is my thing, similar to what Josh just
spoke about. When I got to the NFL. You know,
they have you speak with sometimes sports psychologists or you know,
you go speak to your sports you play a performance person.
And I went to speak to him and it was
just like, man, it sounds like the valle that you
grew up with, you know, performance anxiety. And when I
was telling you, and I was just like, what's performance anxiety?

(32:41):
And it was just like, you know, it's the fear
to perform in front of people, no D d D.
And then I was thinking about it, I was like, oh,
there's a clinical name for that.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
So I'm telling people I grew up with performance anxiety,
but you know how I got through it perform perform realistically.
Is it really an anxiety or is it a And
that's my point. This, This dude told me that I
grew up with performance anxiety and pretty much clinically told
me this is what it was.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
And this and I was just like, okay, But then
when I thought about.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
My life, I was like I always was concerned about
things that I had never done before, and the only
way I got rid of the fear was by practicing.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
I was about to say that, so it's not even
really performance anxiety. It's once you feel confident enough to perform,
then that anxiety goes away because you're prepared.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
But he told me I have performance.

Speaker 9 (33:25):
I guess you can make your way through performance anxiety
like you can heal yourself of performance anxiety.

Speaker 5 (33:32):
Preparing and performing anxiety isn't always something that is debilitating
or it takes over your life. When it does take
over your life, that's when you might need to have
medication or some form of like talk therapy or E M,
d R something like that. But if you have a
general anxiety about something, even if it's no, it's a

(33:56):
type of therapy.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Now you don't have anxiety.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
It's a different kind of burned out.

Speaker 5 (34:05):
It is a type of therapy that it's called eye movement,
desensitization and reprocessing. It's psychotherapy is a technique that helps
reduce distress associated with disturbing memories.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
They use it a lot for PTSD and anxiety.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Like when you've dealt with certain traumas that you when
you have anxiety, that to me is very different than yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Free to play this game, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (34:35):
But yeah, so everybody has a level of anxiety. It
can be a medical issue if it gets to the
point where it disrupts your everyday life. And if it
disrupts your every day life, you might go to therapy
and a therapist might do something called exposure therapy where
they kind of force you to do the thing that
you're scared to.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Do, which is what you just said exactly.

Speaker 5 (34:55):
But if you have a level of anxiety where it's
disrupting your everyday life, you can't get to that place
by yourself. So luckily for you, you're able to get
past your performance anxiety because you can force yourself to
do the thing that you're scared to do because you
don't have a level of anxiety that's keeping you from
doing that thing.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Copy So, since burnout isn't a clinical diagnosis, if people
can work through burnout, which is ultimately fatigue, to a
point where your so fatigue that you start to have
these symptoms of anxiety, pretty much that's what burnout is.

(35:33):
Han sleep, physically tired, headaches, you know what I'm saying, exhaustion.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
So that's what burnout is.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
And the reason why I want to separate the two
is so that when listeners are listening or whoever's watching
at home, you understand the difference between anxiety and burnout
and don't just mix because I think that's what happens.
Everything becomes a kerfuffle, you know what I'm saying. Everything
now gets put under one thing. And if we're really
going to have this conversation, I really want people to
understand the difference.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Like burnout is not a clinical diagnosis.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Where you was born with burnout and you tend to
continuously always get burned out.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
You know what I'm saying. Burnout is something you.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Can and self inflicted most of the time.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
And that's what I want people to understand the difference.
Anxiety is something like y'all just discussed, you can't control
over it, but there's ways to work through your anxiety.
Burnout you have one hundred percent control over it. That's
why it's not a clinical diagnosis. So we can prevent burnout.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Right, but you may exhibit thingsts symptoms of right, it's
almost like googling something on webin dan and it's just like,
oh my god, I'm about to die because I have
all the symptoms at the same time, you know, but
it's easy to kind of get them across.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
I like the separation of the two so people understand
because people also need to know when you have anxiety,
which is a clinical diagnosis and need to seek someone,
as opposed to just thinking I have burnout, And it's
important for people.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
To know do you have anxiety or are you burnt out?

Speaker 2 (36:54):
And understanding the difference between the two can help people
go get the help they need.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
At what point do you because I thought this is
pretty interesting, do you tend to lose some interest in
your career or like your professional goals because of burnout?
I feel like I've never seen that with you where
you're like, Okay, I'm feeling burnt out, but you know,
I don't think I want to do this acting thing anymore,
like where it's ever been like a doubt. Do you

(37:19):
feel like it's just par for the course or do
you feel like because for me, I can see how
sometimes the doubt can now kind of trickle in, like
do I have what it takes. If I can't deal
with this and I'm burnt out trying to get to
this goal or this job or this next level, I
can see how it starts to force someone to question
whether this is even the right field for them.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
This is how my hand do that. Unless you got something.

Speaker 8 (37:43):
That I was going to say that low key burnout
help me. I was burnt out doing weddings and I
had to get out of there, and it helped me
get further my career because I got tired of doing
the same old, same, the same old weddings.

Speaker 7 (37:59):
I just got tired of it.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
And you know what it reminds me of though, you
never wanted to just do weddings, same way I never
wanted to just be an NFL athlete. When you get
burnt out doing something you really don't want to do, yeah,
it's like, yo, my body is telling me because with acting,
I'll get up tired, not tired because I love.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
It, you love it. Yeah, they don't feel like work.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
You're just get burnt out on set one time.

Speaker 4 (38:25):
Yeah, but I think you were also navigating the things
around the set. It was household stuff. It was a
bunch of things that yeah, everybody was sick. You were
physically sick.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
I was physically sick. Yeah, But I think that's also
important conversation to talk about. Just because you love something,
don't mean that you're supposed to do it every day
for eighteen hours. You still got to take care of
your body, your mind, and your spirit. That's actually a
good point about because I do love acting, and I
am the type of person that gets obsessive over things.
So I'll get up in early in the morning, I'll
do my readings, then I'll go work out, then I'll

(38:56):
go do something else.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
But your body's an instrument. Absolutely, if you wanted to
show up, you when it needs to show up, then
you guys take care of it too.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
So I got I got my moment of truth when
she just said that. Appreciate you, Matt, because that was
a good point though bringing that up.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
That is a good.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Point, right, It's like, is it burnout or is this
just part of the time.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
To go that's the point. Is it burnout or I'm
just over.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
This, right or is it just part of the process
And you're going to have to find a way to navigate.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Which goes to what we talked about last time. Which
was not navigating burnout, but knowing when to what walk away,
let go go.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
It's like, when you realize you're getting burnt out of something,
it might be time, like Matt say, to let this go.
And maybe that's a good part, a good way to
navigate burnout if you notice you're getting burnt out of something.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
Yeah, letting go.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
I got my moment of truth too.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Well, congratulations.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
I love when you get your little moments of truth together. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Oh my god. All right, y'all any other tips tricks
thoughts on now?

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Well, I know Josh was burnt out at one point.
How did you get through that?

Speaker 9 (40:05):
Bro get I get burnt out probably every September October ish.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Oh, that's what is season.

Speaker 9 (40:15):
Yeah, so it didn't happen for a really long time.
I didn't even know what it was when it first
happened to me back in twenty twenty. No before that,
I did get burn out of twenty twenty, but that
was pandemic.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
And that was I think everybody was burned through.

Speaker 9 (40:31):
But for the first time I happened to I got depressed.
It was just like straight depressing. I'm looking now at
what I'm doing versus what everyone I was comparing myself
to everyone else, like damn, this person went on vacation
and I'm stuck in front of the computer or and
shit happens a lot, like I'll just be here and
then I'll pick up this and everyone's else's life is

(40:53):
pasted like they're enjoying it.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
That's what's wrong with the phone.

Speaker 9 (40:56):
They're enjoying their lives, and I am not enjoying my life,
not enjoying what I'm doing. And it's it's not a
situation where I don't enjoy what I'm doing, insaid, I'm
doing too much of what I'm doing and I don't
have any balance. And then on top of that, you
don't have balance.

Speaker 7 (41:13):
With your family.

Speaker 9 (41:14):
Your family feels like they need you, but you're stuck.
It's almost like there is literally no escape. Which was
funny because when we talked about what burnout is versus anxiety,
burnout can be cured. Well, we talked about burnout was
an option, right, like you can do things to mitigate it.
But the reality is when you have no options and

(41:35):
you have to do this task, especially for me, I'm
going oriented, like.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
You know, I like get your things done.

Speaker 9 (41:41):
So when I don't have any options, I don't see
like there's an Like there's an option, but the option
is I won't make the money that I'm making, right, So,
like you sort of got to find a happy balance.
And what ends up happening is my product My productivity
goes down. The quality of what I'm doing dramatically down
from operating at let's say, at an eighty percent level,

(42:04):
goes down to like thirty. And then I started missing things.
Deadline stopped slipping, email stopped slubbling. I remember at one
point I had to email people in like January February
to tell to apologize for missing emails that were coming
in November December. Yes, and I'm like, I'm sorry that

(42:25):
I did this. I just couldn't get to you because
I was focused on other things and I really just
got depressed, like I just couldn't do it.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
You know what you said that really stuck with me, though.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
You said you picked up the phone and you noticed
that people were enjoying their life, and it made you depressed.
Comparison is the thief of joy, And the minute you
start looking at the highlight video of everybody else's life,
you tricked yourself out of your own joy because I'm
pretty sure of them people on the phone.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Of course, it's probably, but they posted that.

Speaker 9 (42:55):
But the thing is that I desire that and then
it was attainable for me. It's not a situation where
I'm comparing them because I can't get to that. Yeah,
I know that I can. You want it, but I
am burnt out to the point where I can't get
there because I'm focused on what I'm doing. So it's
not that I'm not comparing their lives. I'm comparing where

(43:15):
they are.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
That moment acts.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
But did you see how taking your mind away from
your goal and focusing on someone else has brought you there?

Speaker 9 (43:23):
It's just, it's just it. It's not directly related to it.
I'm not doing it because I'm comparing. It's literally the
season that I'm in.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
It's literally I'm agreeing with you, but I'm saying, do
you see the fault in that?

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Though?

Speaker 2 (43:37):
What I'm saying is is you feeling depressed. Is the
symptom of you picking up your phone, not because you
were looking tom.

Speaker 9 (43:43):
A symptom of the burnout. It's accelerated by comparing. So
we're on the same page. I'm burnt out, I'm tired
now I got to see everybody else.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
And that's what I'm saying. My point is is to
navigate burnout. When you feel like that, the worst thing
you can do is ever pick up your phone and
look at social media.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Because I'm already burnt out. I'm tired. Now I gotta
go look at this dude here who.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
He's on vacation or he just booked something. And it's like, dang,
Like the value shouldn't even be focused on that. If
you're focused on your work, you'll get there. But since
you're not focused on your work because you burnt out,
you want to look at social media. Now you get
a reminder. I understand how you got that, and that
that I do the same thing. Me and Matt will
sit here right I feel burnt out, I'm let's go

(44:27):
watch a movie. I'll go watch a movie. Get there
and I get teary. Ey, I just want to do that. Bro, Like,
why I can't get a chance to do that yet?
And I didn't do that to I didn't watch it
to escape.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Happened so many times with us. I'm like, what's the matter.
He was just like, I just want to do that.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
This be me brody watching it bro and I just
be like I could do that. I look, I can
do that. Somebody's not giving me a shot, and they
k't be like we were supposed to be just enjoying.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Yeah, why are you acting like that's I'm realizing now
that you said that, that is that is freaking burnout.

Speaker 6 (45:06):
Yeah, you know crazy.

Speaker 9 (45:07):
On the flip side, there are probably hundreds of other
people that still would want to take trade your place,
absolutely right. And my thing is I still haven't figured
out how to navigate it. I know how to fix burnout.
I need to just stop doing work. I literally need
to stop doing work, take a few days, nap, chill, relax,

(45:28):
get my mind off of this, and completely reset. The
problem is how do you do that when you have deadlines?

Speaker 6 (45:35):
Deadlines?

Speaker 9 (45:35):
And we talked about it, like thinking that you everything
is cool, filling up your plate, adding these extra projects
that you know you want to do, but then like
I committed to this, I am not going to let
people my name is on it. I'm Joshua, Like I
gotta finish this task. So I've realized, like picking opportunities
make being selective, also warning people ahead of time. Yo,

(46:00):
I'm doing this for you as a favor. I got
things that are on the slate. There may be a
situation that if I can't do this, I will let
you know. I'll give you ample time. But I'm letting
you know now like this is secondary to my prime objective.
And I've done that towards the end of the year,
letting people know like hey, like I'm adding this thing
for you.

Speaker 8 (46:21):
But I think it goes to what Deva said before,
like if you reduce what you're doing or pull back
a little bit, don't even get to the point of
burnout money. I feel max, I get that.

Speaker 7 (46:33):
Thousand percent money you can provide when you overloaded.

Speaker 6 (46:37):
And facts that is true.

Speaker 8 (46:41):
Balance how much I'm gonna put on my plate so
I can still carry it.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yes, that's that's a real nigga conversation.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Don't we as as men be having that conversation like, yeah,
I feel you gotta make money, but dude, you can
make money right now.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
We had this conversation with Jay.

Speaker 9 (46:54):
You know what I've realized over the years and what
has benefit me is delegating that is yes, it is.
It is prime. I've had an assistant, I've had an assistant.
Three times in my career where I've had like personal
assistance where they have done tasks for me that I
can't do. You know what I'm most burnt out. It's

(47:15):
when I don't have the assistant. That's when I'm most
burnt out because I don't have people to take the
extra task.

Speaker 6 (47:20):
And you know, delegate.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Delegated, that's my thing be to delegate has seen.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Matt was outside. We gotta finish working out.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Jay had hurt his leg, right, so me and Matt
was like, dude, do you ever rests like bro, I
mean the gym this many hours, I'm doing this and
I'm doing that. And I said, now, look, now you
can't go to the gym for a week.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
He was like, so.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, so you got an extra day in and now
you miss a week. It's the same thing, right, I
got to make this money, but now you lose the
money because since he can't go to the gym, he
can't take clients. And I'm like, you missed a week
worth of work and he was just like, I ain't
see that. You says up to those two when people
don't have a plan and they're not thinking about longevity
and they only think about instant gratification. That's when mistakes happen.

(48:07):
That's so someone burnout happened. Seriously, it's like, I got
to get this done now and before you know it.
I mean, I've been there so many times. I've been
there so many times. It's like hearing other people's stories
really make me realize, Like, shit, I've done the same thing, Josh.
You know how many times I said like, oh, yeah,
we're gonna put seven podcasts on the week, and then
at the end of that week, I be fucked up

(48:28):
in here and.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
The recovery time is longer, like we be needing like
three days.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
You want to do this back on track.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
And I'm like, damn, Like I should have just took
the minute. And I mean we did kind of do
that a little bit like the end of last year.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Oh we knew by then we were just months off.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Like I didn't I didn't do nothing. I didn't take
no gigs. I travel with her wherever she was going,
and it felt good. I ain't gonna lie now. I
didn't make as much money in the last five months
as I would have liked to make, but I'm also
not starting.

Speaker 5 (49:00):
Man.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
You know what I'm saying like, at some point you
got to decide you want to make the money or
you want to live, and then gigs, gigs come here
when they miss you a little bit, that's when they come.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Did y'all miss us a little bit? Miss I know
you missed it?

Speaker 4 (49:19):
All right, y'all, I guess let's go pay some bills
and we're going to come back into listening letters. So
stick around, all right, y'all, we're back with listening letters.

(49:39):
Let's just jump right in, all right. I love listening
to y'all and appreciate the growth over the years.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (49:46):
I'm seeing a wonderful guy who's been a real gentleman
and patient with me. He was just he was just
some months out of a serious, long term relationship when
we met. He didn't get intimate until over a year
after we met. I'm forty plus, I was a virgin
when we met, so he's my first. Well, congratulations, you

(50:06):
pop the cork.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
The thing is, I'm ready to be working towards a relationship,
but he's taking his time. Initially, it was fine because
I've had to learn to slow down and just enjoy
being with someone I like. I used to be anxious
in relationships, but as I've worked on myself through therapy, etc.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Etc.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
I'm more secure now. And though I'm not rushing, I'm
also not willing to be single for another year. We
like each other a lot, but I'm scared that I
might end up five years later in the same status.
We're both not seeing anyone at the moment, but he
isn't ready to be exclusive. I'm open to meeting other
people and have tried, but nothing. No one has happened yet.

(50:47):
Would appreciate some advice as I navigate this. All right,
So forty plus virgin when you met now he's your first.
So is it that you're going for the gusto now?
Because it's like, listen, I just I just gave it
up after forty plus years, Like.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Well, Tom, this is it? Tim is ticket?

Speaker 3 (51:04):
This is it?

Speaker 7 (51:05):
Like?

Speaker 4 (51:05):
If we be honest, and if he's coming a couple
months out of a serious long term relationship, then he's
probably not wanting to get back into another potentially serious
long term relationship. Was this a conversation that we had
before y'all were intimate? Does he want to be in
another long term, serious relationship? Like I'm curious to know
if that conversation was had, because if you both were

(51:27):
going into it with different viewpoints, different intentions, then that
could potentially be a problem.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
What you think, babe, I understand where she's coming from.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
She's forty plus and she's probably like, Yo, I gave
this man my body. If you've waited that long and
you finally give this man your bodies, like, I want
to see what's next. I understand that the only problem
with that is that's not how life works. Because you're
ready don't mean that you get to rush somebody. And
so often we hear from people in relationships one is
ready to do something and one is not right. And

(51:57):
at first I thought it was just oh yeah, no, no, no.
I thought it was we're going to get a bunch
of women who were just like I'm ready, I'm ready,
I'm ready to men like I'm not ready.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
But we're seen over the past couple of years they'd
be dudes.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
They'd be like, yeah, I'm ready for her and she
So I'm starting to realize that, yo, people want things
on their own time, right, Asking someone else for advice
on how you should navigate that person is probably the
wrong thing. Speak to that person directly and say, hey,
this is what I'm looking towards, this is what I'm
looking forward to, this is what I think my timeline
is going to be. How does that work with you?

(52:30):
And then when they tell you listen to them. Don't
listen to them with the intent to change their mind
to get on your plan.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Listen to them and then listen to them.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
If he says, well, I've been in a relationship for
a long time, I'm not really you already know he's
not looking to get into a relationship, and if you are,
now it's time to start making some decisions about what
you want for yourself. This is why when people ask
me and send me dms yo, my man or my
girl is doing this what you think I'm like? Don't
ask me, ask yourself and ask that person. Once you

(53:02):
get the information, use discernment to choose yse. There's no
advice we can give you other than speak to him directly.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
When I heard you say, I thought I thought you
were going to say. When people say oh, well, I thought, well,
I thought, because to me, the I thoughts become the
thief of clarity, like you thought. But was that what
the person said, right? So to piggyback off of what
you said. Yeah, the conversation, if it hasn't been had already,
I think is something that needs to be had, or
maybe should have been had prior to you becoming intimate,
because I can imagine how after waiting so many years

(53:32):
to finally then you know, share that with someone you
want to now take this seriously and know where this
is going to go.

Speaker 2 (53:38):
What you said, I think is the point. What you
just said, though, don't tell somebody what you thought. If
they haven't told you what they want, or if they
have told you, don't tell them what you thought they
told you.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
You see what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
So it's like, and if you haven't had the conversation
and they haven't told you, don't say you thought. That
means you created a narrative in your mind, your own mind,
which is a mistake. So you shouldn't be thinking. If
you have somebody, ask them when they tell you listen.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
So I like that point.

Speaker 4 (54:05):
I love that anybody else got two cents for our
listening letter today?

Speaker 1 (54:08):
I do. I was hoping I was hoping you to
ask about to let this nigga have it. Watch.

Speaker 5 (54:16):
No, no, no, I'm just like, if you are forty plus,
you are a virgin, why you let this man take
your virginity? If you wait that long, you might as
well wait till you get the ring?

Speaker 2 (54:26):
You know just what you want. You just said life
is short, you gotta have joy.

Speaker 5 (54:32):
Yeah, yeah, speak the vibrator is just as good, if
not better.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
It's not you know what I'm saying. It's really not.
It's not. It's not.

Speaker 5 (54:43):
She didn't know, so she should have just waited till
she got the ring. And I say, you know, you
fucking now you might as well, you know, busted wide open?

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Then don't get you another I know for real.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
I do feel you though, because I am wondering though,
if you forty plus, why wait to give it up now?

Speaker 1 (55:07):
If you're not married? That is a good question.

Speaker 4 (55:10):
Maybe yeah, maybe she's like, he is the one, but
does he know he is the one.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
I think she wants to be the one. I agree.
She was like, yolo, I ain't getting no younger.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
Yeah, I agree, and not for nothing. My perspective has
changed after we had that conversation. You are forty plus?
What am I waiting for?

Speaker 5 (55:30):
Right?

Speaker 1 (55:30):
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Is it a badge? Of honor still to like be
a virgin at that age. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
I think I think virtue has changed for men and
women back in the day, Like you know the Stone ages.
I need me a wife that's a virgin that I
can you know, consecrate this marriage and claim it's my own.
It's like nobody he talks like that, consecrate con either way.

Speaker 9 (55:50):
I know I didn't do it, brave heart.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
It was test driving before we need the fact period.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
But I do think that's not it's not the same. Like,
no one, no one is going to be like, are
you a vision? No, Like that's it's twenty twenty five.
So the virtue of being a virgin no more, no
longer exists like it did in medieval times when you
had the night a sword and you know what I'm saying.
So this may just be me because we live in
a different world. But I just don't care.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I know, I have no
apple about virginity's no more. You meet a woman, she's
not a virgin. You probably not a virgin, ey the nigga.

Speaker 5 (56:31):
So they also say women's sexuality peaks in their forties,
and so there's a lot of forty plus yr old
hot girls out here that maybe their kids are finally
out the house or true going through their first divorce.
They out at the clubs, they out at the jazz lounges.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
They're mingling, they're on hinge yes, baby, they're friends.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
That's out here going.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
Because there's no judgment at forty forties, you're like whatever,
it's this, like, go do you congratulations?

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Where you want to hear some crazy women here? Something crazy?

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Those women be the women that the young women be
pissed about, because the young dudes who don't got nothing
be sleeping with the cougars, and the younger women be
like and be like, oh, you're out there sucking these cougars,
and now this this is why niggas won't settle down.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
And then those women be mad at men.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Well, you realistically should be mad at the forty year
old virgin that just decided she would to bust open,
because you know what, Look who's right back there shaking
his head because he in his twenties.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
And he no, I'm not leave him alone.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
The old women be busting it.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
And not only do they be busting it, they be
spinning that bread too. So imagine you are twenty year
old and the thing is.

Speaker 4 (57:45):
How rolls later in the Four Seasons Hotel, No, it
would a forty something year old woman.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
If I was single, I too.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
If you were single, what you yourself?

Speaker 2 (57:57):
I thought we was never not going to be together
sudden if she was single single, I'll be You want
me to sit there for?

Speaker 3 (58:04):
That was ever after we said that we could speak hypothetically.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
No, we didn't.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
When did we say that?

Speaker 4 (58:13):
Past episode the hypop my forty year old friends, my
forty year old friends.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
As I'm trying to talk my I'm trying to talk
my cars in my socks.

Speaker 9 (58:26):
You can't get your compression compression exactly what it is.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
I mean, he's not quite impression, but you know. But no,
but I get it.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
I get it.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
I'm saying I get it. Girls, I get that, and
I am getting got it.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
I don't see nothing wrong with that. Don't you have
a good time?

Speaker 3 (58:45):
It's not about have a good at a time? Life
is sure.

Speaker 5 (58:48):
She has been fucking this whole time. Imagine how great
the rest of her life is. She's been focused on
her career. Her apartment is clean as hell. You know,
she got eight hundred credit score as audio version.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
You know she disciplined.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Absolutely, you probably like and all that.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
A twenty year old.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Yeah, he gonna come in there strapping, ain't got nothing
to do but sit on her couch and bless her
every time she come in the house, and she ain't
gonna know what to do with her life.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
That's what's gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
So maybe you need to wait for mister real gentleman
who's been patient with you, says the options are gonna
get in.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Get in, bro seriously, yo, the young girls were doing
it for a minute. I'm gonna find me a young
old dude who never had money now now got money, money,
and I'm gonna let him splurge on me, take me
on some yachts, not gonna marry him, might not even
sleep with them, because a lot of these dudes be suckers.
I'll be seeing a lot of dudes that be getting
god like you spent how much money you're shorty, and

(59:51):
you not even smash.

Speaker 8 (59:52):
It so she could smile at you, and then she'd
be with somebody else.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
This happening in the old heads. That's why I'm happy
I got married. Nobody bamboozing me but me. I spend
this money, I'm getting smash.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
I'm smash.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Period. That's a fact that your wife.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
You heard that, Matt.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
That's a fact.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
What it is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
And everything is fine over here.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
But she's like, I think for some advice, I ain't
telling me to be a whole.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
It went far left for you, for far left, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
But when we got a lot of triple do got
some points though.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
We waited this long and you let it go and
now he's not ready what you're supposed to do. Now
you can't put it back in the box. You can't
put the box in your box. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah,
don't listen to us.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
Don't listen.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Listen stay disciplined your husband, because that's what you want.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Don't listen to us. We wow right now?

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Yeah, all right, we love you, Thank you so much.
We appreciate you being sticking around with us for the years. Okay,
if you want to be featured as a listener letter,
be sure to email us at the Elis Advice at
gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
That is th H E E L L I S
A d V I see eat at gmail dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
So time for moment of truth. We're talking about navigating
burnouts and all things associated. You were excited about your
moment of truth, So do you want to lead us
into that segment?

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
Yes? Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
The very first thing I want to say shout out
to Josh, thank you for making us talk about the
difference between burnout and anxiety. First of all, shout out
to Trouble for making us talk about the difference between
burnout and anxiety. But Josh, thank you for pointing out
the fact that sometimes you get burnt out and then

(01:01:36):
you want an escape, and your escape could lead to
more burnout.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
When you said that, I was like, Hey, that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
The fucking truth because I've done that so many times,
and in order to navigate burnout, my moment of truth
is stay focused on the task until it's completed, and
then when the task is completed, don't rush to another task.
Sit in it for a minute, yeah, and just enjoy
the fact that you completed the task. That's how you
and my moment of truth is to avoid burnout.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
I think mine has to do more with taking care
of self because I realized how sensitive. And I don't
know if it's like a forty something thing now or what,
but I feel like my body is super sensitive to stress,
lack of sleep, not drinking of water, like not taking
time for myself, and it manifests itself in different things,
like the other day, I was saying, damn, I don't

(01:02:26):
feel right. This was like two or three days ago,
just came off of filming. So that was one kind
of decompression that I was trying to do, right, just
trying to reacclimate with life and the kids and Deval.
And Deval was like, I know you're gonna need a
couple of days. Take a couple of days, and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Of course this is important and scary, so really like
this important.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
So then there's that component of it being just like
lack of sleep out of my regimen.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
I wasn't working out for two weeks.

Speaker 4 (01:02:52):
I was eating maybe two meals a day, so I
really was not taking care of myself while I was working.
And then of course on flow the minute I rat
to come tap dancing on my head. You know, she
rains on every parade, right, so that's happening. At the
same time, she's a little bitch, she a little bit,
but so that was happening also. And I remember saying
that day, I don't know what's wrong. But something is wrong.

(01:03:15):
And I kept saying, I don't feel right, something doesn't
feel right, and I thought maybe it was a bit
of anxiety. I said, maybe I'm going through like withdrawals
from filming because I was having such a good time.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
I'm like, am I now in a city of depression
because I enjoyed working? Like what is happening?

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
Then I get this massive headache on one side of
my head and I'm like, Okay, maybe I'm dehydrated because
I haven't been drinking my gallon of water a day.

Speaker 2 (01:03:37):
And this is why it's important to know your partner.
Because I looked in her eyes. Her eyes were super
super low and glossy, and the tent wasn't white like
she had like a slightly yellowish tent eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
I was like, yo, something is wrong with right.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
And then I'm laying here with him on this I'm
actually sitting behind him on this couch. And then I
just start to feel really nauseous and I'm like and
I was like, the last time I felt something kind
of like this was when I had the postpartun pre
plansha with Dakota and something to say, check your blood pressure.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
I went to check my blood pressure. My blood pressure was.

Speaker 4 (01:04:11):
One forty two over one hundred, which is wild high,
wold high for me. I'm like, your classic, like one
eighteen over sixty eight kind of girl. So for my
blood pressure to be that high, and all I'm thinking
to myself is like, I haven't done anything that would
warrant a high blood pressure right now, aside from the
heavy period drinking. I was, yeah, I've just been doing

(01:04:31):
all the things. So I took my blood pressure. I
called my sister, of course, because now that she's a
nurse practitioner, she know a lot more about the whole
medical feeling. I'm like, she's going through like the motions
in her head, like we're checking the boxes of the
things that can or can't be And she's just like,
all right, take two tile and all, get some hydration in,
eat a meal. If the headache doesn't subside, then I
think you should go to the er.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
So I don't take it serious.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
From the minute she told me her blood pressure, I was.

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
Just like, yo, go, So I tried not to panic
because I think that's gonna make it worse. So I
ended up taking the tilenol, had something to eat.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
She did tell you too, we took the blood pressure.
Then she took it again on the same arm and
it went up. It was at like one oh six.
And then she said, don't take your blood pressure on
the same arm twice. This is important for people to
know because once it's squeezed.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
Yeah, it gets stretchedls.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Then when you try to take it again, it's automatically
going to be high. So she switched arms and took
it again and it was below one hundred, which is
why we didn't go to the hospital. I think that's
important till somebody at home has it and they keep
taking their blood pressure. If they know what is getting high,
it's because you're taking that in the same arm.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
Right, Yeah, So this arm was a bit lower.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
It was like one point thirty something over like ninety seven,
which is still high, but it was better, right, So
I took the tilenol, hydrated all of that stuff. Didn't
want to take a nap because I just feel like
when you don't feel well, I feel like taking a nap.
You just don't want to sleep. So I stayed up
and everything the headache subsided. So she said that was
a good sign. And I just realized, like I just
in those two weeks probably burnt myself out to an

(01:05:59):
extent and didn't even realize it because I was on
such a high from the adrenaline and everything happening and
being in a happy place that my body was literally
telling me, bitch, get the fuck back it together, like.

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
My body was in shock.

Speaker 4 (01:06:13):
So to tie in my moment and truth with that
quick story is to say, listen, when you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Was added somebody, you know how she always said my
stories be long.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Nobody going to tell her that her story was long
or it's only me trouble, but you don't.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
The story to say. I won't say quick. I said.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
I sorry to say, listen to your body, because your
body is it's all you have. It's the only one
you got, so you got to take care of it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
Burnout or not.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
You're only going to be able to perform and show
up as yourself if you're taking care of yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Facts.

Speaker 7 (01:06:51):
I got one.

Speaker 8 (01:06:51):
Let's NBA players, This is not for you, but load
management is important.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Facts that nobody went by them, fucking little management. We
played all this money for these tickets.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
Period.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
I'm pissed running ahead, Josh.

Speaker 6 (01:07:07):
All right, So my moment of the truth is, uh,
burn me out once. Shame on me. No, shame on you. Yeah,
burn me out twice, shame on me.

Speaker 7 (01:07:19):
Why shame on you?

Speaker 9 (01:07:21):
Because I know better at the first time. Yes, And
one thing you did tell me you you always tell me. Actually, like, yo, bro,
if you need to take a break, let me know.
I'm holding that card in my back pocket. Though into
like I really, really really.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
Josh on everything though we know when you need that
though real talk I got you don't.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
No, that's necessary.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
That's the worst thing I want to hear.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
You know what's on the rise in America heart talks
the people between twenty and thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
That's why the blood pressure for me was a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
I'm like on the rise, I got.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
The last thing I want to ever hear is I'd
rather hear Josh say y'all need a break, rather than
getting a call from Anika saying, hey, Josh in the
hospital he had a stroke. Yeah, I don't ever want
to hear that. Why all about working out all the time,
because that helps. That's the reason why.

Speaker 8 (01:08:06):
That's why I started working out. I had a high
blood russure randomly, I think I don't remember exact number,
but it was near like one forty over. I remember
the number, looked at it my wife.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
Yeah, not a thirty three months.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Stylistic is the top right high one. If you around,
anything between one ten and one twenty is considered normal.
That lower number should be anywhere between US sixties eighty
or something.

Speaker 7 (01:08:40):
Yeah, it was like near ninety or NAR one hundred something.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
When she had postpartum pre clamshaw, she was two hundred
over something and they said, if she would have went
to sleep, you would have woke up and your wife
would have either been staring at you because she had
a stroke and can't talk, or you would have woke
up and your wife wouldn't have been here no more.
That's what the nurse to him, because I asked herself,
why does my wife need to be admitted? And she
explained to me that high blood pressure leads to stroke

(01:09:06):
and we all got to be better with that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
I know you young over there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
I'm not going to say your name, but I don't
care if you in your twenties, bro, we got to
be working out and eating right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
So your moment of truth, though.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
Keep a blood pressure.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
I like that, Yeah, like that. My moment of truth
is be careful.

Speaker 5 (01:09:27):
I guess when you're first starting out something, when you're
excited to do it, still, just pay attention to how
much you take on because you won't be able to
sustain that forever.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
That is a good When you like something, you tend
to like. You know, it's like I like this, and today.

Speaker 8 (01:09:48):
I was going to when he was talking, I was thinking,
it's like, it's similar to like overeating. You just feel yeah,
I know as much as I love this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
That is a good point.

Speaker 6 (01:10:00):
Read too much of anything is.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
Hashtag ration.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
That ass like scratch was.

Speaker 4 (01:10:18):
Tell that to Miss forty plus former virgin ration that okay, okay, period,
all right, y'all. Be sure to find us on Patreon
for exclusive Elis ever After content. You can find The
After Show more family content as well, and then you
can find us on social media on Instagram.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Elis ever After. I'm deval Oh, I'm Kadeen, I am.

Speaker 8 (01:10:42):
I'm I'm at Underscore Matt dot ellis with the easiest
way is go to the vals page to look for
collab period and.

Speaker 6 (01:10:51):
I am Josha Duyne, s j O, s h u
A Underscore d.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
W A I N and I'm at Trips the Cool
t R I B b Z the cool on Everything.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to wait.
Thank you, as subscribe and as always.

Speaker 5 (01:11:11):
Ellis ever After is an iHeartMedia podcast. It's hosted by
Kadeen and Deval Ellis. It's produced by Triple Video, Production
by Joshua Dwane and Matthew Ellis, video editing by Lashawan Rowe.

Speaker 8 (01:12:05):
The UK

Speaker 9 (01:13:05):
Talker A F.

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