November 8, 2023 • 30 mins
The lawyers interrogate the likelihood of Ezra and Levi going to the Manhattan Well after tea with the McCombs. An expert measurer, who visited Levi in jail before the trial, speaks on the Weeks Brothers’ behalf. Ezra Weeks’ relationship to the murder site is deeper than anyone realized. Elma’s reputation is called into question. Plus, the defense lawyer's questions shed new light on Richard Croucher’s infatuation with Elma.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, I'm Alison Vlam Welcome back to Erased. In the
previous episode, the defense attorneys kept pursuing the theory that
Elma took her own life, painting a picture of Elma
as a tortured girl who abused Laudanum and got all
dressed up on December twenty second to throw herself into
a well. To tell the jury about Levi's night leading
(00:26):
up to the time of the murder, they called their
dear friend, Levi's brother Ezra, up to the witness stand.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Levi Weeks had a typical Sunday. He woke up at
the Rings house and went straight to Ezra's. He showed
up around ten am.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Right, that's right, yeah, yes, around then, yes, right after
breakfast time.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Me and my wife had just eaten. We were off
to church.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Ezra Weeks was this elite architect with a settled family
life at his home on Harrison Street. He kept horses
in the lumberyard. He built mansion on contracts during the day.
He lived comfortably, and that's the kind of life leeve
I would have wanted for himself to. He looked up
to his brother. At the trial, Ezra was nervous, though
he probably rehearsed his testimony one hundred times with his lawyers.
(01:14):
He wasn't a big public speaker. Ezra never could have
imagined testifying at a murder trial, let alone that his
younger brother would be facing capital punishment counting on him
and his testimony for freedom.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So you saw your brother in the morning, and then
several more times that day.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Right right when I got home from church, Levi was there.
He said he'd been over to the rings and then
returned to my house. By mid afternoon. We had tea. Yes, yeah,
my wife made tea.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Did you have any guests for tea that night?
Speaker 6 (01:48):
As one?
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yes? Yeah, John and Death came over at five point thirty.
Speaker 7 (01:52):
Objection, who are John and Beth?
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Sorry? Sorry?
Speaker 6 (01:55):
Can you not startle our witness like that? Coldon?
Speaker 7 (01:58):
Can your witness be more clear? Hamilton?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
I'm sorry, that's right, Just say John of Bett's full
names for the.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Jury, John McComb, my friend and his wife Beth macomb.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Now John McComb worked with Ezra Weeks building a house
uptown for Hamilton. He also worked on building the new
city Hall. And I mentioned the projects of all these wealthy,
well connected men because they were literally constructing New York
at the time of this trial, and the trial was
literally building the new system, and everyone in power was
friends with each other, having tea at each other's homes,
(02:30):
making important decisions on night's like December twenty second, seventeen
ninety nine. Levi was in and out of Ezra's house
that night. Ezra recounted it like this, and how was it.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
The tea evening?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yes, all right, good fun.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
It felt like a normal tea time because we didn't
know Levi's lover was about to die.
Speaker 8 (02:55):
Ezra Weeks, my friend, thank you as always for hosting.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We love having you here.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Johnny cheers, cheers, good friends and good tea.
Speaker 8 (03:06):
And Levi, it's good to see you.
Speaker 9 (03:08):
Kid.
Speaker 8 (03:09):
Looks like you're following in Ezra's giant footsteps.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Trying, sir.
Speaker 7 (03:13):
I can only hope to be half the architect.
Speaker 8 (03:14):
My brother is good, stay focused, no distraction.
Speaker 7 (03:18):
El's never mister McComb.
Speaker 8 (03:20):
No girlfriends, all or any of that.
Speaker 9 (03:22):
Oh, Levi, I heard you were seeing a girl at
the Rings house.
Speaker 7 (03:26):
I thought maybe you were in love.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Levi's in lust.
Speaker 7 (03:31):
It's temporary, nothing too serious, mister missus McComb. I haven't
found my future wife. If that's what you're asking for now,
work is my wife.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
That's right, And once you commit yourself fully to the work,
you can help us with the Alexander Hamilton project. What seriously,
John and I are still in the planning stages of
the house uptown.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I'll bring you onto the project if you keep your focus.
Speaker 7 (03:54):
Oh my god, of course that's incredible. Thank you so much.
Are you joining us for STU? Do you need help,
died Oh, I've got it. Not as heavy as it
looks you Relax, Levi.
Speaker 8 (04:06):
Are you staying for dinner?
Speaker 7 (04:08):
No, no, thank you. I'm actually on my way out.
You're going out in the cold. I've got plans. Oh,
take a sleigh then I'll give you blankets. Oh it's okay, Elizabeth,
I can walk. You'll be freezing. What time did LEVI
walk out of Ezra's house?
Speaker 8 (04:27):
Seven fifty five, I'd say, And when did you and
your wife leave? Not long after Levi? About eight twenty.
Speaker 10 (04:33):
How can you be so precise, mister macomb? These numbers
sound very specific, almost rehearsed.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
Of course he's specific. He's an architect.
Speaker 8 (04:41):
Also, Beth and I wanted to stop at a friend's
house for a night.
Speaker 11 (04:45):
Cap.
Speaker 8 (04:45):
So we checked the time before we left.
Speaker 7 (04:48):
What was happening at Ezra Weeks's house when you left?
Speaker 8 (04:51):
Nothing out of the ordinary. Missus Weeks was washing silverware
in the basin when Ezra walked us out. Ezra walked
you out, mister Macomb, Yes, he walked us out. When
are you going to mention that? What's the big deal?
He walked us out. Any good hosts would do that.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So John Maccomb's testimony left colden with more questions than answers.
If LEVI went out that night and then Ezra walked
his guests out, the Week's brothers had the opportunity to
do something terrible?
Speaker 7 (05:21):
Can I call Asra's wife to the stand? Missus Weeks.
Speaker 12 (05:23):
You can't call a witness in the middle of our argument.
Speaker 7 (05:26):
Do you did the same thing to me?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Missus Weeks is not even here, guys, we have her
written testimony?
Speaker 7 (05:31):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 6 (05:32):
Is it her breast?
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Missus Weeks breast is okay?
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Her breasts are good.
Speaker 13 (05:36):
Yes, she just couldn't come to court today, So we
have her written statement.
Speaker 12 (05:41):
I'll read it to you.
Speaker 14 (05:42):
No, Aaron, the cleric will read it for us. Pass
it to him.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 15 (05:50):
On the twenty ninth of March eighteen hundred, Elizabeth Weeks stated,
under oak hang on.
Speaker 11 (05:56):
Objection to what mister Colden.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
I need an opportunity to question this witness.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, you can't because she's not here. This is the
only option if you want to hear from Ezra's wife.
Speaker 7 (06:05):
This written testimony thing is ridiculous.
Speaker 11 (06:07):
You're wasting time, cold and proceed, clerk.
Speaker 15 (06:12):
Elizabeth Week's statement is as follows, Levi Weeks. My brother
in law socialized with us until eight pm and then
departed a half hour later. The McCombs left, My husband
walked them halfway to their destination.
Speaker 7 (06:26):
Wait, I thought Ezra just walked the maccombs out.
Speaker 12 (06:29):
Yes, he walked his guest out.
Speaker 7 (06:32):
Like to the front door, the front porch, the yard,
the next street.
Speaker 12 (06:36):
Who cares, mister cole Missus.
Speaker 10 (06:37):
Week's testimony says he walked a distance with the McCombs
halfway to their next appointment.
Speaker 8 (06:42):
Yes, because it was dark. He held up an extra
lantern so my wife wouldn't slip in the snow. We
parted ways as soon as the streets were lit. Well enough,
where's that exactly? Frederick Ryan Landers house. Once we got there,
I told Ezra we could handle the rest of the
walk on our own.
Speaker 7 (07:01):
And then he was out in the world alone, unaccounted.
Speaker 12 (07:04):
For, not unaccounted for, he went home.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
Do we have evidence that Ezra went street home.
Speaker 15 (07:11):
It just says at nine point fifteen, Levi returned to
our home to get his assignments for the next day
from my husband.
Speaker 13 (07:17):
So Levi and Ezra were both back at Ezra's by
nine to fifteen at the latest.
Speaker 10 (07:23):
But during the exact three quarters of an hour that
Alma Sans was murdered between eight thirty and nine to
fifteen pm on December twenty second, seventeen ninety nine, Ezra
Weeks was unaccounted for, probably assisting his brother Levi in
a cold blooded murder. Objection, Ezra goes out at eight
twenty five, Alma is killed at eight forty. Ezra and
Levi returned to Ezra's house by nine to fifteen and
(07:44):
act like everything is normal.
Speaker 11 (07:46):
Objection westerns cold.
Speaker 10 (07:48):
And mister McCombe, is it possible that Ezra Weeks went
to the Manhattan well after leaving you at Rylander's Corner?
Speaker 6 (07:54):
What a desperate, deplorable accusation.
Speaker 7 (07:56):
Is it possible, sir, that Ezra Weeks was involved in
the murder of Sands. Is it possible, sir.
Speaker 11 (08:08):
Mister McComb, We're standing by for your answer.
Speaker 14 (08:12):
Is it possible that Ezra Weeks served as an accomplice?
Speaker 11 (08:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (08:22):
Yes, yeah, yes, it's possible.
Speaker 11 (08:29):
God with me.
Speaker 7 (08:31):
Oh no, no no.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And to summarize, because this is all about the details.
The night of the murder, John and Beth Macomb were
at Ezra and Elizabeth Weeks's house. Levi left the house
about five minutes before eight pm, saying he had plans
weird for a cold Sunday night, but whatever. About twenty
to twenty five minutes later, John and Beth went to leave,
but Ezra insisted on walking them to the nearest adequately
(08:55):
lit street because it was dark and snowy and treacherous
out there. Ezra walked his friends to the corner outside
this guy, Frederick Reinlander's house, and then they parted ways.
Then Ezra was unaccounted for for the next forty five minutes.
If Ezra Weeks could have gotten to the well and
back in that forty five minute window, it's quite possible
that he was involved in the murder of Alma Sands.
(09:17):
The defense then calls Frederick Rhinlander, the guy with the
well lit corner house.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
Good to see you, gentlemen. Oh, sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
That's why, mister Ryelander. Let's get right into it. Do
you think Ezra and Levi Weeks are capable of murder?
Speaker 5 (09:31):
Yes? Or no?
Speaker 7 (09:32):
No, I don't, sir. I think they're both harmless.
Speaker 15 (09:36):
I can't imagine either of the Week's brothers hurting a fly,
or a horse or a woman.
Speaker 13 (09:41):
So you'd say there's absolutely no way the Weeks brothers
were involved in the murder of Alma Sands, right.
Speaker 7 (09:49):
Leading the witness, He did not say that.
Speaker 10 (09:51):
Well, I've got proof, proof of what, mister Rhinlander, proof
that the Week's brothers could not have killed miss Elma Sands.
Speaker 11 (10:00):
Okay, present your evidence.
Speaker 7 (10:02):
What evidence?
Speaker 15 (10:03):
Ezra asked me to take measurements as a favor to
his brother to help their case.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Bridewell Jail, where Levi was held after he was arrested.
To paint a quick picture of this dump on Chambers Street.
It had like damp stone walls and dirt floors, and
there were rats everywhere. Imagine Levi in rags and chains.
Haggard from his time there. Hamilton brought Frederick Rhinlander to
see Levi before the trial to keep perfecting his alibi.
Speaker 16 (10:34):
Bye bye, wake yours, you got visitors, Levi.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Mister Rhinlander has information to share.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Go away, Alexander, get up, mister Rhyinlander, and I are
talking to you.
Speaker 7 (10:47):
I don't feel like talking right now.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
Then just listen.
Speaker 7 (10:51):
I'll be quick, Levi. I promise you.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Can sit down, mister Rymander.
Speaker 7 (10:55):
Now you can't, my cell my roles. You guys can't
sit down. That's fine, that's fine. I'm good to stay, LEVI.
Speaker 15 (11:02):
I walked back and forth from Greenwich Street to the
Manhattan Well yesterday, several times.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
Good for you.
Speaker 7 (11:09):
Your brother asked me to do it.
Speaker 17 (11:12):
Ezra asked you to walk from the boarding house to
the well, over and over again like an idiot.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Ezra asked mister Rhinlander to take measurements as a favor
to you.
Speaker 15 (11:21):
I'll testify at your trial, and my measurements will exonerate you.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
When we call mister Rhinlander to the stand next week,
your name will be cleared for good.
Speaker 6 (11:30):
LEVI.
Speaker 7 (11:31):
Wait, you're testifying, Rylander. You didn't even know Elman.
Speaker 15 (11:34):
The walk from the Rings boarding house to the Manhattan
Well is seventy nine chains long. Took me an average
of twenty five minutes each time one way.
Speaker 17 (11:43):
Yeah, you're a slow walker because you're not from New York.
She only take fifteen minutes twenty max.
Speaker 7 (11:48):
Don't say that at the trial. Leave the measurements to.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Me, Levi.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You were seen by several witnesses at the Rings at
eight oh five, I know, and Elizabeth Weeks saw you
at Ezra's by nine to fifteen.
Speaker 7 (11:59):
I know.
Speaker 17 (12:00):
Well, we don't need to practice this every day. I
haven't memorized.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You couldn't have walked from the Rings to the Well
to Ezra's between eight o five and nine fifteen in
the dark, per.
Speaker 15 (12:09):
My measurements, that would take someone over an hour without
stopping to commit a murder.
Speaker 17 (12:15):
But with the horse and sleigh, it would only take
a half hour, probably maybe less.
Speaker 7 (12:19):
No one in their right mind would take a sleigh
on the list bannards in the snow. That's a death wish.
The jury won't ask about horses.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So they were confident in these measurements. When they went
to court, they assumed that nobody would ask about the
possibility of Levi taking a horse to the murder site
that night because of how dangerous the list bannards were
in the snow. So the defense thought Old Frederick Reinlander
and his infinite measuring expertise would alibi Levi out once
and for all.
Speaker 15 (12:47):
And so I determined neither Levi nor Ezra could have
reasonably made the commute in thirty five minutes.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
Boom, Both innocent. But mister rhinelanders, all your measurements are
taken on foot.
Speaker 10 (13:00):
So if Ezra took his slay to meet Levi at
the well, or if Levi took the slay to meet
Elma in the first place, none of your data is valid.
Speaker 15 (13:07):
No I told you, mister Colton, nobody could manage a
sleigh on the list of nards in the snow.
Speaker 10 (13:11):
But someone did. Because we heard earlier that sleigh tracks
were found at the well.
Speaker 15 (13:16):
Well, sleigh tracks are irrelevant to my measurements.
Speaker 13 (13:19):
Just ignore Coldon's badgering, mister Rhyinlander, keep going.
Speaker 10 (13:23):
Mister Burr, your witness just said there couldn't have been
a sleigh at the murder site, but there were sleigh
tracks at the murder site.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
Okay, mister Ryelander.
Speaker 10 (13:32):
A new line of questioning, Ezra Weeks walked John and
Beth MacComb to the corner in front of your house.
Speaker 7 (13:36):
Of the night Alma was murdered.
Speaker 15 (13:38):
Yes, exactly, because they could see perfectly by my house.
My yard is the brightest in the area. I get
the light coming in off the water, so.
Speaker 10 (13:47):
It's bright enough that the Macombs tell Ezra we can
manage to commute from here good night. Yes, So the
Macombs leave, and let's say Ezra goes from your house
straight to the Manhattan Well.
Speaker 12 (13:57):
Ezra had no motive nor reason to do that.
Speaker 10 (14:00):
I said, let's say, how long would it take Ezra
Weeks to get to the well from your house?
Speaker 7 (14:05):
I didn't measure that, so I don't know. Can you
take a guess?
Speaker 10 (14:10):
No?
Speaker 7 (14:10):
I can't.
Speaker 18 (14:11):
Sorry, I thought you were an expert measurer. I'm not
an expert guesser, mister Colton. Okay, we'll try this another way.
Ezra Weeks built the Manhattan Well for mister Burgh's company.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
Right, Yes, Ezra is an esteem to build.
Speaker 10 (14:25):
So Ezra really knows where the murder site is because
he built it with his own two hands. So even
if it's rough ground, it's dark, it's cold, snow whatever.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
Ezra Weeks knows exactly where the well is.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
This questions you're getting silly.
Speaker 10 (14:38):
I'm just asking mister Rhinelander for a simple guess. How
long would it have taken Ezra Week's builder of the
murder site to get there from your corner on December
twenty second, seventeen ninety nine.
Speaker 7 (14:50):
A few minutes, A few minutes.
Speaker 10 (14:54):
Ezra could get to the well just in time for
Elma screams of murders.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah. So, to the dismay of Burr and Hamilton, it
became clear that logistically, both Levi and Ezra could have
pulled off the murder at the Manhattan Well. If Levi
borrowed Ezra's horse and sleigh, which left Ezra's lumberyard for
an hour around eight pm, he could have easily covered
all this territory. Meanwhile, Ezra walked John and Beth out
into the night, and then where did he go? Once
(15:28):
this all emerged, Hamilton and Burr had to go into
damage control mode. They called the local grocer to the stand.
Speaker 13 (15:35):
The defense calls David Forrest, neighbor to the boarding house
in honor of Forrest's bakery on Williams.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Street, grocers truly have their finger on the pulse of
the community.
Speaker 7 (15:45):
They always have, mister Forrest.
Speaker 12 (15:47):
People call you the ears of the community.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
Why is that?
Speaker 16 (15:53):
Because I hear everything while I'm working. Lots of people
come through my bakery every day wanting to chat. I
don't even read the because I get such a daily
earful from my customers.
Speaker 13 (16:04):
And has anyone in your shop spoken negatively about Levi Weeks?
Speaker 16 (16:09):
No, sir, everyone loves Levi.
Speaker 6 (16:12):
Great.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
What was the gossip like when Elma first disappeared, everyone
assumed Alma committed suicide?
Speaker 7 (16:18):
Right, objection. We are way past this theory.
Speaker 16 (16:21):
People were saying, you know, Elma Sands wouldn't be the
first lonely woman in New York to end her own life.
Speaker 12 (16:29):
Great, thank you, mister Forrest.
Speaker 16 (16:32):
Mister Forest, Yes, mister Colton.
Speaker 10 (16:36):
Are you sure you've never heard anything negative about Levi Weeks?
Speaker 5 (16:39):
He answered that already.
Speaker 10 (16:40):
Well, what about Levi's relationship with Alma? Anything about that?
Speaker 16 (16:45):
It's hard to say.
Speaker 7 (16:46):
What's hard to say, sir?
Speaker 8 (16:48):
They were bold.
Speaker 16 (16:49):
Kids having casual sex and a Quaker.
Speaker 7 (16:52):
House, but neither of them were Quakers.
Speaker 16 (16:54):
That's true, that's true, and it is all just gossip.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
It's true gossip. Though Alma SAMs was uncomfortable insecure.
Speaker 10 (17:02):
Everybody sounds uncomfortable and insecure when everyone's gossiping about their
sex life. You know about that, mister Hamilton, watch it
co mister Forrest. Most New Yorkers feel strongly that Levi
Weeks is guilty, right.
Speaker 6 (17:15):
How should he know about most New Yorkers?
Speaker 16 (17:17):
You just called him the ears of the community simply
because I hear all the rumors, many of which are
generated by Richard Croucher, the gossip machine himself.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Remember this guy, Ah, God.
Speaker 6 (17:29):
Craucher, pervert, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Humus would often burst in on Elma and Levi in
the back room on the second floor.
Speaker 7 (17:37):
Were you watching her?
Speaker 6 (17:39):
Done? Flattyselves?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Richard Croucher hated Levi and he loved Elma, but he
was too old and weird to get close with her.
Once Elma's body was displayed for everyone to see, Croucher
took to the streets to start stirring the pot. He
demanded Levi be hanged at the gallows for Alma's murder. So,
of course, the defense team used this to argue that
(18:02):
Croucher ignited negative public perception of Levi and set their
client up at an unfair disadvantage before the trial even started.
Speaker 16 (18:10):
If he had it his way, this whole city would
hate Levi Weeks.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
How do you mean, mister Forest, He means Croucher stirs
the pot and starts rumors.
Speaker 16 (18:18):
Last week, Croucher came into my shop completely manic, ranting
to my customers awful things about Levi Weeks.
Speaker 13 (18:26):
So Croucher has worked to poison public opinion against my client.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
The truth is not a poison. Maybe wakes.
Speaker 13 (18:35):
She's a minute, mister Croucher, Sit down, cuts your honor.
Speaker 12 (18:40):
Croucher shouldn't even be in here for this.
Speaker 11 (18:42):
Mister Croucher, sit down or you'll be removed.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
What he knows Levi is a guilty man.
Speaker 13 (18:47):
Before Levi Weeks received a fair trial, he was convicted
in the court of public opinion.
Speaker 12 (18:53):
That's not American.
Speaker 10 (18:54):
I think that's very American. Everyone has a say, and
everyone knows your client's guilty.
Speaker 6 (18:59):
Richard Croucher had motive. He envied Lee Vy.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Levia is young, handsome, successful, Croucher is old, ugly raucus,
and Croucher envied Levi's relationship with Elma.
Speaker 16 (19:10):
Right, everybody did Elma was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And Richard Croucher loved her, but Elma loved Levi a
love triangle, and Croucher, crushed by the jealousy, killed Alma.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
So neither man could have.
Speaker 10 (19:23):
What mister Forrest, you were not suggesting Croucher could have
killed Alma Sands?
Speaker 7 (19:26):
Are you?
Speaker 16 (19:29):
I think any man could kill any woman should he
want to see her dead. I personally can't imagine killing anybody,
not even my wife.
Speaker 12 (19:40):
Mister Forrest, Actually, let's speak to your wife.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
The defense called Loraina Forrest up to the stand safe
to say Lorena was not a fan of Richard Croucher,
but she knew him pretty well. Lorena and David Forrest
lived around the Core her from the Rings boarding house,
where Croucher had lived for several years.
Speaker 12 (20:03):
Missus Forrest a good afternoon, mister burr Well, Lorena tell
us about Richard Croucher.
Speaker 9 (20:11):
He loves to talk.
Speaker 10 (20:12):
About Alma Sam Again irrelevant in the case against Levi.
Speaker 13 (20:16):
Weeks Again disagree with coldon Croucher's behavior towards our client,
who he framed is very relevant.
Speaker 10 (20:23):
Richard Croucher is not a reasonable suspect, and my colleagues
know it.
Speaker 13 (20:27):
S This is a house of justice, mister Colden. Isn't
everyone is suspect until proven innocent?
Speaker 7 (20:33):
Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Speaker 12 (20:35):
Missus Forrest? What has Croucher said about Alma?
Speaker 9 (20:40):
Oh, Croucher loved her. Alma's so smart, innocent, generous.
Speaker 7 (20:47):
Sounds right.
Speaker 13 (20:48):
What I'm hearing is Croucher was weirdly obsessed with Elma.
Speaker 7 (20:53):
Elma was my frame most I was not upset.
Speaker 13 (20:56):
And the fast track to a fresh start was to
kill her and frame Levi. If anyone walks out of
this room and shackles today, it should be the true
murderer of Richard Croucher.
Speaker 14 (21:07):
Eat, You're not another word from back there, Croucher.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
But Croucher was always trying to see Alma naked. You
tried to assert yourself into Elma and Levi's relationship.
Speaker 7 (21:21):
You are crazy, mister Hamilton, you're grasping it strong.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
Rower had a motive, and he had Elma's trust.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
I almost trusted a lot of bad men. She trusted everybody.
Speaker 14 (21:30):
Counselors reapproached this stand with a new line of questioning
for this witness or dismiss her.
Speaker 11 (21:35):
You're acting like children.
Speaker 12 (21:36):
We're good to dismiss her. Sorry about that, Thank you,
missus Forrest.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
Can I step down?
Speaker 7 (21:43):
No, no, not yet, Missus Forest, I need to cross examine.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
You real quick.
Speaker 9 (21:46):
Oh that's right. I like your shoes, mister Colton.
Speaker 7 (21:51):
Oh well, thank you so much.
Speaker 10 (21:53):
I like your bonnet of course. Now, Missus Forest, do
you think Croucher had feelings for Alma?
Speaker 9 (22:00):
Oh? He liked her a lot. I don't know about feelings.
Speaker 10 (22:04):
But when Levi moved into the house last July, he
came between Croucher and Elma. Croucher had to adjust to
Levi's intrusive presence, and that's not easy.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
Oh.
Speaker 9 (22:12):
Plus, I'm sure it wasn't easy for Croucher to make
new friends.
Speaker 7 (22:16):
And why is that? Well, he's a bit of a
creem crave. You wish. How old is Richard Croucher Mmm?
Speaker 9 (22:26):
Probably fifty, sir, more.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
Than a decade older than the average board at the Ringshouse.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
Objection relevant.
Speaker 10 (22:34):
Croucher lives amongst all the young single people. He is
a social pariah. But Alma was nice to him.
Speaker 9 (22:41):
Alma was nice to everyone. She made everyone feel seen
and dignified. I mean, that's why ugly old Croucher liked
her so much.
Speaker 7 (22:49):
So you don't think Croucher could have possibly killed Elma.
Speaker 9 (22:52):
Oh, I don't know who killed her, mister Colton. But
on the day her body was discovered, I saw Richard Croucher,
sob like.
Speaker 10 (23:00):
Baby, take us there. It's January two. Yes, Alma's body
is found in the well.
Speaker 9 (23:05):
Yes, And mister Croucher came to my house that evening.
He asked if I'd heard the news about Alma, and
then he started weeping right there on my sofa.
Speaker 13 (23:15):
Which is precisely what a guilty person would do to
maintain a pretense of innocence.
Speaker 7 (23:22):
I was nowhere near.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
To this Spinocha on the night of the murder.
Speaker 7 (23:25):
It was at a party. That's right. Croucher has an alibi.
So can we move on?
Speaker 12 (23:29):
But Richard Craucher looks like the murderer. Look at that face, Look.
Speaker 13 (23:33):
At him, everybody, he was obsessed with the victim.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Stop there.
Speaker 13 (23:37):
And yet Levi Weeks is still on troal for this
Croucher killed Alma.
Speaker 12 (23:43):
That's it.
Speaker 10 (23:44):
Your desperate attempt to create reasonable doubt by going after
Richard Croucher is simply embarrassing.
Speaker 13 (23:49):
Your embarrassing coldon give up on this verse. Crapture is
a very scary man.
Speaker 7 (23:54):
For almost surrounded by scary men, you have nothing.
Speaker 12 (23:57):
Richard Croucher is the murderer.
Speaker 7 (24:00):
Oh so you do believe Alma was murdered.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And at the eleventh hour, all eyes in the courtroom
were suddenly on Richard Croucher. It was the second day
of the trial that extended past midnight, and everyone thought
it was coming to a close. Instead, the defense lawyers
introduced a whole new theory that creepy Richard Croucher murdered
Elma himself and framed their client. Coldon had to scramble.
Speaker 7 (24:27):
The prosecution recalls Richard Croucher.
Speaker 11 (24:30):
Go, mister Croucher, come up here.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
I'm coming one second. Get out of the bad woman.
Speaker 19 (24:41):
Thank you, mister Colden, for this chance to speak from ourself.
Speaker 10 (24:44):
Mister Croucher, where were you the night of December twenty second,
seventeen ninety nine.
Speaker 19 (24:49):
I was at a little get together at my friend's house,
eight hundred and ninety nine Bowery Line.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
It started at seven. I was right on tod.
Speaker 7 (24:57):
What's your friend's name?
Speaker 19 (24:59):
And ashmore, she's over there in the green bonnet, you see,
and darling anyway to us. She's lovely The party ended
at ten thirty, which is when I walked back.
Speaker 13 (25:13):
To the Rings after miss Rings curfew, disrespecting the rules.
Speaker 19 (25:18):
I'm a lodger, not a border, which means they don't
give me breakfast, and I don't mind a curfew.
Speaker 10 (25:23):
So Richard Croucher was at a party on the Bowery
from seven pm to ten thirty that night. Alma's screams
were heard at eight forty. Thus we should start treating
this man like a suspect and return to the prosecution
of Levi weeks.
Speaker 19 (25:35):
Not my fault that Elma sawt of prisoner is some
sort of Adonis. She was infatuated by him once they
got together.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Levi would never let Elma talk.
Speaker 7 (25:46):
To me hold on. He wouldn't let her.
Speaker 19 (25:50):
Levi was cruel and controlling. In the final months of
Elbe's life. She barely spoke to me at the hall.
I started to miss it even before she was gone.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
Good evening. Oh God, I'm sorry. Did I start with you?
Speaker 7 (26:15):
Well sorry, I've just been like really jumpy.
Speaker 6 (26:19):
Well it's too dark. You need a can? Please please
take mine? What the hell is going on out here?
Speaker 7 (26:28):
Nothing, Levi. I just got a little startled. Richard scared you,
not on purpose.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
What's wrong with you, America.
Speaker 19 (26:35):
I'm just walking up the stairs to my bedroom, Laitha,
nothing's wrong.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
Well, you should be more careful. It was an accident.
Get to bed, Alma, your tea is getting cold.
Speaker 14 (26:45):
Am I.
Speaker 7 (26:45):
Richard good.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
Speke trainers.
Speaker 7 (26:54):
I swear to God, Croucher, stay out of the way.
Speaker 19 (26:57):
You're new here, Leth just because she've got the attention
of a beautiful girl.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
Don't talk about Alma like that. Stay away from her
and me.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
It's a small house, Levi. We must share and share
a like.
Speaker 7 (27:12):
You discuss me, Croucher. If I ever see your down.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
Scare me in the slightest Levi, You're just a kid.
Speaker 19 (27:22):
So Levi was like a dog, protective and territorial around Elma.
He denied others access to her, kept her contained before
he killed her. And Elma was so loyal and loving
she would have done anything for.
Speaker 10 (27:42):
Him, even a loope so they could keep seeing each other.
But when Levi couldn't get his brother's blessing, he won
her out of the picture.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
Yes, so E murdered to get him out of the way.
Speaker 7 (27:52):
I knew it, Yes, exact horror. Levi Wicks is guilty.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
You run a haunstable remove him?
Speaker 6 (27:58):
That evil creek killed?
Speaker 15 (28:02):
How have you fought a neck for what he done?
Speaker 5 (28:06):
Stay off?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Richard Croucher would find himself back in the courtroom later
that year at his own trial, with Colden prosecuting him. Right,
Croucher raped a thirteen year old in the Rings boarding house.
He was found guilty, then pardoned, then later executed in
England for something else terrible. One of Croucher's victims testified
(28:32):
that he had taunted her with an awful story about
a young girl he knew who died in a well. Next,
the jury reaches a verdict. Will Colden's case hold up
under the weight of the system, Will Levi I die
for this? Or can Hamilton and Burr's strategies save him.
Our story comes to its conclusion in our next episode,
(28:53):
Stay with Us Erased. The Murder of Elma Says is
a production of Lunch Plans and Lava for Good Podcasts
in association with Signal Company Number One. The show is narrated,
written and produced by me Alison Flamm. It stars Alison
Williams as Katherine Ring, Tony Goldwyn as Alexander Hamilton, Barry
(29:16):
Sheck as Aaron Burr and Jason Flamm as Judge John Lansing.
Our executive producers are Alison Williams, Jason Flamm, and Kevin Mortis.
This show is produced by Goldhalk Productions. The show is
sound designed and mixed by Steve Bond. The music is
composed and performed by Sasha Putnam. The producer for Goldhalk
(29:36):
is Andy Goddard, with production management from Emma Hearn. The
executive producer for Goldhalk is John Scott Dryden. You can
listen to every episode of Erased the Murder of Elma
Sands right now ad free by subscribing to Lava for
Good plus on Apple Podcasts. You can also follow the
show on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Lava for
Good and For more information on this story, plus a
(29:59):
complete list of our incredible cast, visit Lava for Good
dot com slash Erased
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Mm HM
Hi, I'm Alison Vlam Welcome back to Erased. In the
previous episode, the defense attorneys kept pursuing the theory that
Elma took her own life, painting a picture of Elma
as a tortured girl who abused Laudanum and got all
dressed up on December twenty second to throw herself into
a well. To tell the jury about Levi's night leading
(00:26):
up to the time of the murder, they called their
dear friend, Levi's brother Ezra, up to the witness stand.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Levi Weeks had a typical Sunday. He woke up at
the Rings house and went straight to Ezra's. He showed
up around ten am.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Right, that's right, yeah, yes, around then, yes, right after
breakfast time.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Me and my wife had just eaten. We were off
to church.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Ezra Weeks was this elite architect with a settled family
life at his home on Harrison Street. He kept horses
in the lumberyard. He built mansion on contracts during the day.
He lived comfortably, and that's the kind of life leeve
I would have wanted for himself to. He looked up
to his brother. At the trial, Ezra was nervous, though
he probably rehearsed his testimony one hundred times with his lawyers.
(01:14):
He wasn't a big public speaker. Ezra never could have
imagined testifying at a murder trial, let alone that his
younger brother would be facing capital punishment counting on him
and his testimony for freedom.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So you saw your brother in the morning, and then
several more times that day.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Right right when I got home from church, Levi was there.
He said he'd been over to the rings and then
returned to my house. By mid afternoon. We had tea. Yes, yeah,
my wife made tea.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
Did you have any guests for tea that night?
Speaker 6 (01:48):
As one?
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yes? Yeah, John and Death came over at five point thirty.
Speaker 7 (01:52):
Objection, who are John and Beth?
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Sorry? Sorry?
Speaker 6 (01:55):
Can you not startle our witness like that? Coldon?
Speaker 7 (01:58):
Can your witness be more clear? Hamilton?
Speaker 5 (02:00):
I'm sorry, that's right, Just say John of Bett's full
names for the.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Jury, John McComb, my friend and his wife Beth macomb.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Now John McComb worked with Ezra Weeks building a house
uptown for Hamilton. He also worked on building the new
city Hall. And I mentioned the projects of all these wealthy,
well connected men because they were literally constructing New York
at the time of this trial, and the trial was
literally building the new system, and everyone in power was
friends with each other, having tea at each other's homes,
(02:30):
making important decisions on night's like December twenty second, seventeen
ninety nine. Levi was in and out of Ezra's house
that night. Ezra recounted it like this, and how was it.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
The tea evening?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yes, all right, good fun.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
It felt like a normal tea time because we didn't
know Levi's lover was about to die.
Speaker 8 (02:55):
Ezra Weeks, my friend, thank you as always for hosting.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We love having you here.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Johnny cheers, cheers, good friends and good tea.
Speaker 8 (03:06):
And Levi, it's good to see you.
Speaker 9 (03:08):
Kid.
Speaker 8 (03:09):
Looks like you're following in Ezra's giant footsteps.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Trying, sir.
Speaker 7 (03:13):
I can only hope to be half the architect.
Speaker 8 (03:14):
My brother is good, stay focused, no distraction.
Speaker 7 (03:18):
El's never mister McComb.
Speaker 8 (03:20):
No girlfriends, all or any of that.
Speaker 9 (03:22):
Oh, Levi, I heard you were seeing a girl at
the Rings house.
Speaker 7 (03:26):
I thought maybe you were in love.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Levi's in lust.
Speaker 7 (03:31):
It's temporary, nothing too serious, mister missus McComb. I haven't
found my future wife. If that's what you're asking for now,
work is my wife.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
That's right, And once you commit yourself fully to the work,
you can help us with the Alexander Hamilton project. What seriously,
John and I are still in the planning stages of
the house uptown.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
I'll bring you onto the project if you keep your focus.
Speaker 7 (03:54):
Oh my god, of course that's incredible. Thank you so much.
Are you joining us for STU? Do you need help,
died Oh, I've got it. Not as heavy as it
looks you Relax, Levi.
Speaker 8 (04:06):
Are you staying for dinner?
Speaker 7 (04:08):
No, no, thank you. I'm actually on my way out.
You're going out in the cold. I've got plans. Oh,
take a sleigh then I'll give you blankets. Oh it's okay, Elizabeth,
I can walk. You'll be freezing. What time did LEVI
walk out of Ezra's house?
Speaker 8 (04:27):
Seven fifty five, I'd say, And when did you and
your wife leave? Not long after Levi? About eight twenty.
Speaker 10 (04:33):
How can you be so precise, mister macomb? These numbers
sound very specific, almost rehearsed.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
Of course he's specific. He's an architect.
Speaker 8 (04:41):
Also, Beth and I wanted to stop at a friend's
house for a night.
Speaker 11 (04:45):
Cap.
Speaker 8 (04:45):
So we checked the time before we left.
Speaker 7 (04:48):
What was happening at Ezra Weeks's house when you left?
Speaker 8 (04:51):
Nothing out of the ordinary. Missus Weeks was washing silverware
in the basin when Ezra walked us out. Ezra walked
you out, mister Macomb, Yes, he walked us out. When
are you going to mention that? What's the big deal?
He walked us out. Any good hosts would do that.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So John Maccomb's testimony left colden with more questions than answers.
If LEVI went out that night and then Ezra walked
his guests out, the Week's brothers had the opportunity to
do something terrible?
Speaker 7 (05:21):
Can I call Asra's wife to the stand? Missus Weeks.
Speaker 12 (05:23):
You can't call a witness in the middle of our argument.
Speaker 7 (05:26):
Do you did the same thing to me?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Missus Weeks is not even here, guys, we have her
written testimony?
Speaker 7 (05:31):
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 6 (05:32):
Is it her breast?
Speaker 4 (05:34):
Missus Weeks breast is okay?
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Her breasts are good.
Speaker 13 (05:36):
Yes, she just couldn't come to court today, So we
have her written statement.
Speaker 12 (05:41):
I'll read it to you.
Speaker 14 (05:42):
No, Aaron, the cleric will read it for us. Pass
it to him.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Thank you.
Speaker 15 (05:50):
On the twenty ninth of March eighteen hundred, Elizabeth Weeks stated,
under oak hang on.
Speaker 11 (05:56):
Objection to what mister Colden.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
I need an opportunity to question this witness.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, you can't because she's not here. This is the
only option if you want to hear from Ezra's wife.
Speaker 7 (06:05):
This written testimony thing is ridiculous.
Speaker 11 (06:07):
You're wasting time, cold and proceed, clerk.
Speaker 15 (06:12):
Elizabeth Week's statement is as follows, Levi Weeks. My brother
in law socialized with us until eight pm and then
departed a half hour later. The McCombs left, My husband
walked them halfway to their destination.
Speaker 7 (06:26):
Wait, I thought Ezra just walked the maccombs out.
Speaker 12 (06:29):
Yes, he walked his guest out.
Speaker 7 (06:32):
Like to the front door, the front porch, the yard,
the next street.
Speaker 12 (06:36):
Who cares, mister cole Missus.
Speaker 10 (06:37):
Week's testimony says he walked a distance with the McCombs
halfway to their next appointment.
Speaker 8 (06:42):
Yes, because it was dark. He held up an extra
lantern so my wife wouldn't slip in the snow. We
parted ways as soon as the streets were lit. Well enough,
where's that exactly? Frederick Ryan Landers house. Once we got there,
I told Ezra we could handle the rest of the
walk on our own.
Speaker 7 (07:01):
And then he was out in the world alone, unaccounted.
Speaker 12 (07:04):
For, not unaccounted for, he went home.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
Do we have evidence that Ezra went street home.
Speaker 15 (07:11):
It just says at nine point fifteen, Levi returned to
our home to get his assignments for the next day
from my husband.
Speaker 13 (07:17):
So Levi and Ezra were both back at Ezra's by
nine to fifteen at the latest.
Speaker 10 (07:23):
But during the exact three quarters of an hour that
Alma Sans was murdered between eight thirty and nine to
fifteen pm on December twenty second, seventeen ninety nine, Ezra
Weeks was unaccounted for, probably assisting his brother Levi in
a cold blooded murder. Objection, Ezra goes out at eight
twenty five, Alma is killed at eight forty. Ezra and
Levi returned to Ezra's house by nine to fifteen and
(07:44):
act like everything is normal.
Speaker 11 (07:46):
Objection westerns cold.
Speaker 10 (07:48):
And mister McCombe, is it possible that Ezra Weeks went
to the Manhattan well after leaving you at Rylander's Corner?
Speaker 6 (07:54):
What a desperate, deplorable accusation.
Speaker 7 (07:56):
Is it possible, sir, that Ezra Weeks was involved in
the murder of Sands. Is it possible, sir.
Speaker 11 (08:08):
Mister McComb, We're standing by for your answer.
Speaker 14 (08:12):
Is it possible that Ezra Weeks served as an accomplice?
Speaker 11 (08:19):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (08:22):
Yes, yeah, yes, it's possible.
Speaker 11 (08:29):
God with me.
Speaker 7 (08:31):
Oh no, no no.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And to summarize, because this is all about the details.
The night of the murder, John and Beth Macomb were
at Ezra and Elizabeth Weeks's house. Levi left the house
about five minutes before eight pm, saying he had plans
weird for a cold Sunday night, but whatever. About twenty
to twenty five minutes later, John and Beth went to leave,
but Ezra insisted on walking them to the nearest adequately
(08:55):
lit street because it was dark and snowy and treacherous
out there. Ezra walked his friends to the corner outside
this guy, Frederick Reinlander's house, and then they parted ways.
Then Ezra was unaccounted for for the next forty five minutes.
If Ezra Weeks could have gotten to the well and
back in that forty five minute window, it's quite possible
that he was involved in the murder of Alma Sands.
(09:17):
The defense then calls Frederick Rhinlander, the guy with the
well lit corner house.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
Good to see you, gentlemen. Oh, sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
That's why, mister Ryelander. Let's get right into it. Do
you think Ezra and Levi Weeks are capable of murder?
Speaker 5 (09:31):
Yes? Or no?
Speaker 7 (09:32):
No, I don't, sir. I think they're both harmless.
Speaker 15 (09:36):
I can't imagine either of the Week's brothers hurting a fly,
or a horse or a woman.
Speaker 13 (09:41):
So you'd say there's absolutely no way the Weeks brothers
were involved in the murder of Alma Sands, right.
Speaker 7 (09:49):
Leading the witness, He did not say that.
Speaker 10 (09:51):
Well, I've got proof, proof of what, mister Rhinlander, proof
that the Week's brothers could not have killed miss Elma Sands.
Speaker 11 (10:00):
Okay, present your evidence.
Speaker 7 (10:02):
What evidence?
Speaker 15 (10:03):
Ezra asked me to take measurements as a favor to
his brother to help their case.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Bridewell Jail, where Levi was held after he was arrested.
To paint a quick picture of this dump on Chambers Street.
It had like damp stone walls and dirt floors, and
there were rats everywhere. Imagine Levi in rags and chains.
Haggard from his time there. Hamilton brought Frederick Rhinlander to
see Levi before the trial to keep perfecting his alibi.
Speaker 16 (10:34):
Bye bye, wake yours, you got visitors, Levi.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Mister Rhinlander has information to share.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Go away, Alexander, get up, mister Rhyinlander, and I are
talking to you.
Speaker 7 (10:47):
I don't feel like talking right now.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
Then just listen.
Speaker 7 (10:51):
I'll be quick, Levi. I promise you.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Can sit down, mister Rymander.
Speaker 7 (10:55):
Now you can't, my cell my roles. You guys can't
sit down. That's fine, that's fine. I'm good to stay, LEVI.
Speaker 15 (11:02):
I walked back and forth from Greenwich Street to the
Manhattan Well yesterday, several times.
Speaker 6 (11:08):
Good for you.
Speaker 7 (11:09):
Your brother asked me to do it.
Speaker 17 (11:12):
Ezra asked you to walk from the boarding house to
the well, over and over again like an idiot.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Ezra asked mister Rhinlander to take measurements as a favor
to you.
Speaker 15 (11:21):
I'll testify at your trial, and my measurements will exonerate you.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
When we call mister Rhinlander to the stand next week,
your name will be cleared for good.
Speaker 6 (11:30):
LEVI.
Speaker 7 (11:31):
Wait, you're testifying, Rylander. You didn't even know Elman.
Speaker 15 (11:34):
The walk from the Rings boarding house to the Manhattan
Well is seventy nine chains long. Took me an average
of twenty five minutes each time one way.
Speaker 17 (11:43):
Yeah, you're a slow walker because you're not from New York.
She only take fifteen minutes twenty max.
Speaker 7 (11:48):
Don't say that at the trial. Leave the measurements to.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
Me, Levi.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You were seen by several witnesses at the Rings at
eight oh five, I know, and Elizabeth Weeks saw you
at Ezra's by nine to fifteen.
Speaker 7 (11:59):
I know.
Speaker 17 (12:00):
Well, we don't need to practice this every day. I
haven't memorized.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You couldn't have walked from the Rings to the Well
to Ezra's between eight o five and nine fifteen in
the dark, per.
Speaker 15 (12:09):
My measurements, that would take someone over an hour without
stopping to commit a murder.
Speaker 17 (12:15):
But with the horse and sleigh, it would only take
a half hour, probably maybe less.
Speaker 7 (12:19):
No one in their right mind would take a sleigh
on the list bannards in the snow. That's a death wish.
The jury won't ask about horses.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So they were confident in these measurements. When they went
to court, they assumed that nobody would ask about the
possibility of Levi taking a horse to the murder site
that night because of how dangerous the list bannards were
in the snow. So the defense thought Old Frederick Reinlander
and his infinite measuring expertise would alibi Levi out once
and for all.
Speaker 15 (12:47):
And so I determined neither Levi nor Ezra could have
reasonably made the commute in thirty five minutes.
Speaker 7 (12:54):
Boom, Both innocent. But mister rhinelanders, all your measurements are
taken on foot.
Speaker 10 (13:00):
So if Ezra took his slay to meet Levi at
the well, or if Levi took the slay to meet
Elma in the first place, none of your data is valid.
Speaker 15 (13:07):
No I told you, mister Colton, nobody could manage a
sleigh on the list of nards in the snow.
Speaker 10 (13:11):
But someone did. Because we heard earlier that sleigh tracks
were found at the well.
Speaker 15 (13:16):
Well, sleigh tracks are irrelevant to my measurements.
Speaker 13 (13:19):
Just ignore Coldon's badgering, mister Rhyinlander, keep going.
Speaker 10 (13:23):
Mister Burr, your witness just said there couldn't have been
a sleigh at the murder site, but there were sleigh
tracks at the murder site.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
Okay, mister Ryelander.
Speaker 10 (13:32):
A new line of questioning, Ezra Weeks walked John and
Beth MacComb to the corner in front of your house.
Speaker 7 (13:36):
Of the night Alma was murdered.
Speaker 15 (13:38):
Yes, exactly, because they could see perfectly by my house.
My yard is the brightest in the area. I get
the light coming in off the water, so.
Speaker 10 (13:47):
It's bright enough that the Macombs tell Ezra we can
manage to commute from here good night. Yes, So the
Macombs leave, and let's say Ezra goes from your house
straight to the Manhattan Well.
Speaker 12 (13:57):
Ezra had no motive nor reason to do that.
Speaker 10 (14:00):
I said, let's say, how long would it take Ezra
Weeks to get to the well from your house?
Speaker 7 (14:05):
I didn't measure that, so I don't know. Can you
take a guess?
Speaker 10 (14:10):
No?
Speaker 7 (14:10):
I can't.
Speaker 18 (14:11):
Sorry, I thought you were an expert measurer. I'm not
an expert guesser, mister Colton. Okay, we'll try this another way.
Ezra Weeks built the Manhattan Well for mister Burgh's company.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
Right, Yes, Ezra is an esteem to build.
Speaker 10 (14:25):
So Ezra really knows where the murder site is because
he built it with his own two hands. So even
if it's rough ground, it's dark, it's cold, snow whatever.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
Ezra Weeks knows exactly where the well is.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
This questions you're getting silly.
Speaker 10 (14:38):
I'm just asking mister Rhinelander for a simple guess. How
long would it have taken Ezra Week's builder of the
murder site to get there from your corner on December
twenty second, seventeen ninety nine.
Speaker 7 (14:50):
A few minutes, A few minutes.
Speaker 10 (14:54):
Ezra could get to the well just in time for
Elma screams of murders.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah. So, to the dismay of Burr and Hamilton, it
became clear that logistically, both Levi and Ezra could have
pulled off the murder at the Manhattan Well. If Levi
borrowed Ezra's horse and sleigh, which left Ezra's lumberyard for
an hour around eight pm, he could have easily covered
all this territory. Meanwhile, Ezra walked John and Beth out
into the night, and then where did he go? Once
(15:28):
this all emerged, Hamilton and Burr had to go into
damage control mode. They called the local grocer to the stand.
Speaker 13 (15:35):
The defense calls David Forrest, neighbor to the boarding house
in honor of Forrest's bakery on Williams.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Street, grocers truly have their finger on the pulse of
the community.
Speaker 7 (15:45):
They always have, mister Forrest.
Speaker 12 (15:47):
People call you the ears of the community.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
Why is that?
Speaker 16 (15:53):
Because I hear everything while I'm working. Lots of people
come through my bakery every day wanting to chat. I
don't even read the because I get such a daily
earful from my customers.
Speaker 13 (16:04):
And has anyone in your shop spoken negatively about Levi Weeks?
Speaker 16 (16:09):
No, sir, everyone loves Levi.
Speaker 6 (16:12):
Great.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
What was the gossip like when Elma first disappeared, everyone
assumed Alma committed suicide?
Speaker 7 (16:18):
Right, objection. We are way past this theory.
Speaker 16 (16:21):
People were saying, you know, Elma Sands wouldn't be the
first lonely woman in New York to end her own life.
Speaker 12 (16:29):
Great, thank you, mister Forrest.
Speaker 16 (16:32):
Mister Forest, Yes, mister Colton.
Speaker 10 (16:36):
Are you sure you've never heard anything negative about Levi Weeks?
Speaker 5 (16:39):
He answered that already.
Speaker 10 (16:40):
Well, what about Levi's relationship with Alma? Anything about that?
Speaker 16 (16:45):
It's hard to say.
Speaker 7 (16:46):
What's hard to say, sir?
Speaker 8 (16:48):
They were bold.
Speaker 16 (16:49):
Kids having casual sex and a Quaker.
Speaker 7 (16:52):
House, but neither of them were Quakers.
Speaker 16 (16:54):
That's true, that's true, and it is all just gossip.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
It's true gossip. Though Alma SAMs was uncomfortable insecure.
Speaker 10 (17:02):
Everybody sounds uncomfortable and insecure when everyone's gossiping about their
sex life. You know about that, mister Hamilton, watch it
co mister Forrest. Most New Yorkers feel strongly that Levi
Weeks is guilty, right.
Speaker 6 (17:15):
How should he know about most New Yorkers?
Speaker 16 (17:17):
You just called him the ears of the community simply
because I hear all the rumors, many of which are
generated by Richard Croucher, the gossip machine himself.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Remember this guy, Ah, God.
Speaker 6 (17:29):
Craucher, pervert, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Humus would often burst in on Elma and Levi in
the back room on the second floor.
Speaker 7 (17:37):
Were you watching her?
Speaker 6 (17:39):
Done? Flattyselves?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Richard Croucher hated Levi and he loved Elma, but he
was too old and weird to get close with her.
Once Elma's body was displayed for everyone to see, Croucher
took to the streets to start stirring the pot. He
demanded Levi be hanged at the gallows for Alma's murder. So,
of course, the defense team used this to argue that
(18:02):
Croucher ignited negative public perception of Levi and set their
client up at an unfair disadvantage before the trial even started.
Speaker 16 (18:10):
If he had it his way, this whole city would
hate Levi Weeks.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
How do you mean, mister Forest, He means Croucher stirs
the pot and starts rumors.
Speaker 16 (18:18):
Last week, Croucher came into my shop completely manic, ranting
to my customers awful things about Levi Weeks.
Speaker 13 (18:26):
So Croucher has worked to poison public opinion against my client.
Speaker 6 (18:31):
The truth is not a poison. Maybe wakes.
Speaker 13 (18:35):
She's a minute, mister Croucher, Sit down, cuts your honor.
Speaker 12 (18:40):
Croucher shouldn't even be in here for this.
Speaker 11 (18:42):
Mister Croucher, sit down or you'll be removed.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
What he knows Levi is a guilty man.
Speaker 13 (18:47):
Before Levi Weeks received a fair trial, he was convicted
in the court of public opinion.
Speaker 12 (18:53):
That's not American.
Speaker 10 (18:54):
I think that's very American. Everyone has a say, and
everyone knows your client's guilty.
Speaker 6 (18:59):
Richard Croucher had motive. He envied Lee Vy.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Levia is young, handsome, successful, Croucher is old, ugly raucus,
and Croucher envied Levi's relationship with Elma.
Speaker 16 (19:10):
Right, everybody did Elma was beautiful.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
And Richard Croucher loved her, but Elma loved Levi a
love triangle, and Croucher, crushed by the jealousy, killed Alma.
Speaker 6 (19:21):
So neither man could have.
Speaker 10 (19:23):
What mister Forrest, you were not suggesting Croucher could have
killed Alma Sands?
Speaker 7 (19:26):
Are you?
Speaker 16 (19:29):
I think any man could kill any woman should he
want to see her dead. I personally can't imagine killing anybody,
not even my wife.
Speaker 12 (19:40):
Mister Forrest, Actually, let's speak to your wife.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
The defense called Loraina Forrest up to the stand safe
to say Lorena was not a fan of Richard Croucher,
but she knew him pretty well. Lorena and David Forrest
lived around the Core her from the Rings boarding house,
where Croucher had lived for several years.
Speaker 12 (20:03):
Missus Forrest a good afternoon, mister burr Well, Lorena tell
us about Richard Croucher.
Speaker 9 (20:11):
He loves to talk.
Speaker 10 (20:12):
About Alma Sam Again irrelevant in the case against Levi.
Speaker 13 (20:16):
Weeks Again disagree with coldon Croucher's behavior towards our client,
who he framed is very relevant.
Speaker 10 (20:23):
Richard Croucher is not a reasonable suspect, and my colleagues
know it.
Speaker 13 (20:27):
S This is a house of justice, mister Colden. Isn't
everyone is suspect until proven innocent?
Speaker 7 (20:33):
Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Speaker 12 (20:35):
Missus Forrest? What has Croucher said about Alma?
Speaker 9 (20:40):
Oh, Croucher loved her. Alma's so smart, innocent, generous.
Speaker 7 (20:47):
Sounds right.
Speaker 13 (20:48):
What I'm hearing is Croucher was weirdly obsessed with Elma.
Speaker 7 (20:53):
Elma was my frame most I was not upset.
Speaker 13 (20:56):
And the fast track to a fresh start was to
kill her and frame Levi. If anyone walks out of
this room and shackles today, it should be the true
murderer of Richard Croucher.
Speaker 14 (21:07):
Eat, You're not another word from back there, Croucher.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
But Croucher was always trying to see Alma naked. You
tried to assert yourself into Elma and Levi's relationship.
Speaker 7 (21:21):
You are crazy, mister Hamilton, you're grasping it strong.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
Rower had a motive, and he had Elma's trust.
Speaker 7 (21:27):
I almost trusted a lot of bad men. She trusted everybody.
Speaker 14 (21:30):
Counselors reapproached this stand with a new line of questioning
for this witness or dismiss her.
Speaker 11 (21:35):
You're acting like children.
Speaker 12 (21:36):
We're good to dismiss her. Sorry about that, Thank you,
missus Forrest.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
Can I step down?
Speaker 7 (21:43):
No, no, not yet, Missus Forest, I need to cross examine.
Speaker 5 (21:46):
You real quick.
Speaker 9 (21:46):
Oh that's right. I like your shoes, mister Colton.
Speaker 7 (21:51):
Oh well, thank you so much.
Speaker 10 (21:53):
I like your bonnet of course. Now, Missus Forest, do
you think Croucher had feelings for Alma?
Speaker 9 (22:00):
Oh? He liked her a lot. I don't know about feelings.
Speaker 10 (22:04):
But when Levi moved into the house last July, he
came between Croucher and Elma. Croucher had to adjust to
Levi's intrusive presence, and that's not easy.
Speaker 7 (22:12):
Oh.
Speaker 9 (22:12):
Plus, I'm sure it wasn't easy for Croucher to make
new friends.
Speaker 7 (22:16):
And why is that? Well, he's a bit of a
creem crave. You wish. How old is Richard Croucher Mmm?
Speaker 9 (22:26):
Probably fifty, sir, more.
Speaker 7 (22:30):
Than a decade older than the average board at the Ringshouse.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
Objection relevant.
Speaker 10 (22:34):
Croucher lives amongst all the young single people. He is
a social pariah. But Alma was nice to him.
Speaker 9 (22:41):
Alma was nice to everyone. She made everyone feel seen
and dignified. I mean, that's why ugly old Croucher liked
her so much.
Speaker 7 (22:49):
So you don't think Croucher could have possibly killed Elma.
Speaker 9 (22:52):
Oh, I don't know who killed her, mister Colton. But
on the day her body was discovered, I saw Richard Croucher,
sob like.
Speaker 10 (23:00):
Baby, take us there. It's January two. Yes, Alma's body
is found in the well.
Speaker 9 (23:05):
Yes, And mister Croucher came to my house that evening.
He asked if I'd heard the news about Alma, and
then he started weeping right there on my sofa.
Speaker 13 (23:15):
Which is precisely what a guilty person would do to
maintain a pretense of innocence.
Speaker 7 (23:22):
I was nowhere near.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
To this Spinocha on the night of the murder.
Speaker 7 (23:25):
It was at a party. That's right. Croucher has an alibi.
So can we move on?
Speaker 12 (23:29):
But Richard Craucher looks like the murderer. Look at that face, Look.
Speaker 13 (23:33):
At him, everybody, he was obsessed with the victim.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Stop there.
Speaker 13 (23:37):
And yet Levi Weeks is still on troal for this
Croucher killed Alma.
Speaker 12 (23:43):
That's it.
Speaker 10 (23:44):
Your desperate attempt to create reasonable doubt by going after
Richard Croucher is simply embarrassing.
Speaker 13 (23:49):
Your embarrassing coldon give up on this verse. Crapture is
a very scary man.
Speaker 7 (23:54):
For almost surrounded by scary men, you have nothing.
Speaker 12 (23:57):
Richard Croucher is the murderer.
Speaker 7 (24:00):
Oh so you do believe Alma was murdered.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
And at the eleventh hour, all eyes in the courtroom
were suddenly on Richard Croucher. It was the second day
of the trial that extended past midnight, and everyone thought
it was coming to a close. Instead, the defense lawyers
introduced a whole new theory that creepy Richard Croucher murdered
Elma himself and framed their client. Coldon had to scramble.
Speaker 7 (24:27):
The prosecution recalls Richard Croucher.
Speaker 11 (24:30):
Go, mister Croucher, come up here.
Speaker 6 (24:33):
I'm coming one second. Get out of the bad woman.
Speaker 19 (24:41):
Thank you, mister Colden, for this chance to speak from ourself.
Speaker 10 (24:44):
Mister Croucher, where were you the night of December twenty second,
seventeen ninety nine.
Speaker 19 (24:49):
I was at a little get together at my friend's house,
eight hundred and ninety nine Bowery Line.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
It started at seven. I was right on tod.
Speaker 7 (24:57):
What's your friend's name?
Speaker 19 (24:59):
And ashmore, she's over there in the green bonnet, you see,
and darling anyway to us. She's lovely The party ended
at ten thirty, which is when I walked back.
Speaker 13 (25:13):
To the Rings after miss Rings curfew, disrespecting the rules.
Speaker 19 (25:18):
I'm a lodger, not a border, which means they don't
give me breakfast, and I don't mind a curfew.
Speaker 10 (25:23):
So Richard Croucher was at a party on the Bowery
from seven pm to ten thirty that night. Alma's screams
were heard at eight forty. Thus we should start treating
this man like a suspect and return to the prosecution
of Levi weeks.
Speaker 19 (25:35):
Not my fault that Elma sawt of prisoner is some
sort of Adonis. She was infatuated by him once they
got together.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
Levi would never let Elma talk.
Speaker 7 (25:46):
To me hold on. He wouldn't let her.
Speaker 19 (25:50):
Levi was cruel and controlling. In the final months of
Elbe's life. She barely spoke to me at the hall.
I started to miss it even before she was gone.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
Good evening. Oh God, I'm sorry. Did I start with you?
Speaker 7 (26:15):
Well sorry, I've just been like really jumpy.
Speaker 6 (26:19):
Well it's too dark. You need a can? Please please
take mine? What the hell is going on out here?
Speaker 7 (26:28):
Nothing, Levi. I just got a little startled. Richard scared you,
not on purpose.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
What's wrong with you, America.
Speaker 19 (26:35):
I'm just walking up the stairs to my bedroom, Laitha,
nothing's wrong.
Speaker 7 (26:39):
Well, you should be more careful. It was an accident.
Get to bed, Alma, your tea is getting cold.
Speaker 14 (26:45):
Am I.
Speaker 7 (26:45):
Richard good.
Speaker 6 (26:49):
Speke trainers.
Speaker 7 (26:54):
I swear to God, Croucher, stay out of the way.
Speaker 19 (26:57):
You're new here, Leth just because she've got the attention
of a beautiful girl.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
Don't talk about Alma like that. Stay away from her
and me.
Speaker 6 (27:07):
It's a small house, Levi. We must share and share
a like.
Speaker 7 (27:12):
You discuss me, Croucher. If I ever see your down.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
Scare me in the slightest Levi, You're just a kid.
Speaker 19 (27:22):
So Levi was like a dog, protective and territorial around Elma.
He denied others access to her, kept her contained before
he killed her. And Elma was so loyal and loving
she would have done anything for.
Speaker 10 (27:42):
Him, even a loope so they could keep seeing each other.
But when Levi couldn't get his brother's blessing, he won
her out of the picture.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
Yes, so E murdered to get him out of the way.
Speaker 7 (27:52):
I knew it, Yes, exact horror. Levi Wicks is guilty.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
You run a haunstable remove him?
Speaker 6 (27:58):
That evil creek killed?
Speaker 15 (28:02):
How have you fought a neck for what he done?
Speaker 5 (28:06):
Stay off?
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Richard Croucher would find himself back in the courtroom later
that year at his own trial, with Colden prosecuting him. Right,
Croucher raped a thirteen year old in the Rings boarding house.
He was found guilty, then pardoned, then later executed in
England for something else terrible. One of Croucher's victims testified
(28:32):
that he had taunted her with an awful story about
a young girl he knew who died in a well. Next,
the jury reaches a verdict. Will Colden's case hold up
under the weight of the system, Will Levi I die
for this? Or can Hamilton and Burr's strategies save him.
Our story comes to its conclusion in our next episode,
(28:53):
Stay with Us Erased. The Murder of Elma Says is
a production of Lunch Plans and Lava for Good Podcasts
in association with Signal Company Number One. The show is narrated,
written and produced by me Alison Flamm. It stars Alison
Williams as Katherine Ring, Tony Goldwyn as Alexander Hamilton, Barry
(29:16):
Sheck as Aaron Burr and Jason Flamm as Judge John Lansing.
Our executive producers are Alison Williams, Jason Flamm, and Kevin Mortis.
This show is produced by Goldhalk Productions. The show is
sound designed and mixed by Steve Bond. The music is
composed and performed by Sasha Putnam. The producer for Goldhalk
(29:36):
is Andy Goddard, with production management from Emma Hearn. The
executive producer for Goldhalk is John Scott Dryden. You can
listen to every episode of Erased the Murder of Elma
Sands right now ad free by subscribing to Lava for
Good plus on Apple Podcasts. You can also follow the
show on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Lava for
Good and For more information on this story, plus a
(29:59):
complete list of our incredible cast, visit Lava for Good
dot com slash Erased
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Mm HM
Host
Allison Flom
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