May 14, 2025 • 29 mins
"Climate risk is financial risk; investors who aren't addressing that risk are at risk themselves," says Rebecca Mikula-Wright, CEO of the Asia Investor Group on Climate Change. Among Asia's biggest institutional investors, a growing number now track or target investments in climate solutions, conduct physical-risk assessments and engage investee companies to reduce portfolio risks, recognizing climate change as a major risk to long-term returns. Mikula-Wright discusses these issues with Conrad Tan, Bloomberg Intelligence ESG integration analyst for APAC, in this edition of ESG Currents. They also examine newer areas of focus including how investors are working to integrate nature and social risk into their capital allocation and engagement strategies.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
ESG has become established as a key business team as
companies and investors seek to navigate the climate crisis, energy transition,
social mega trends, mounting regulatory attention and pressure from other stakeholders.
The rapidly evolving landscape has become inundated with acronyms, buzzwords,
and lingo. We aim to break these down with industry experts.
(00:30):
Welcome to ESG Currents, your guide to navigating the evolving
ESG space, one topic at a time, Brought to you
by Bloomberg Intelligence, part of Bloomberg's research department with five
hundred analysts and strategists working across all major world markets.
I'm Conrad Dunn, ESG integration analyst for APAK at Bloomberg Intelligence,
and I'm your host for today's episode. Today we're talking
(00:51):
about climate action in Asia, the current state of play,
and how institutional investors in the region are navigating evolving
regulations and structural challenges to translate policy into action, How
considerations such as supporting a just transition influenced their strategy,
and the implications of the backlash against ESG in key
parts of the world. For companies, sustainability initiatives joining me
(01:15):
today is Rebecca Mikola Wright, CEO of the Asia Investor
Group on Climate Change or AIGCC, which I'll invite Rebecca
to share more about in just a moment. Rebecca has
worked in climate change, sustainability and investment banking for over
twenty years in Hong Kong, Europe and Australia. And today
I'm sitting in Singapore while Rebecca is joining me from Sydney. Rebecca,
(01:37):
really delighted to have you with.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Us, Hi Conrad, really great to be with you today.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Now, Rebecca, could you tell us briefly about your own background,
how you got involved in sustainability, and also about AIGCC,
what it represents and the work that you do.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So I started my career in investment banking in London
with Ipey Morgan, and at the same time I was
working with some animal environmental conservation groups there and then
back in Australia as well. I lived in Prague for
a while in Czech Republic in Europe, and I worked
for Exceonomobile as a credit analyst and gained a really
fascinating insight into the organization. Then I moved to Hong
(02:12):
Kong and got into equity research with Nimura and started
an Environment committee while at Numerous Securities, and these two
roles were really my formative lessons in the financial materiality
of ESG issues, although we certainly didn't call it that
at the time. And really, you know, I learned the
early challenges of getting buying and implementation in the nascent
sustainable investment industry while I was living in Hong Kong
(02:34):
and saw what was happening across the region and to
some extent globally as well. And it was while I
was there in Hong Kong that I really had the
realization of the power of using large global capital pools
from institutional investors that would be able to help collectively
solve the climate challenge. And I saw some early examples
of how collaborations were working to address the issues. So
(02:56):
I actually started AIGCC in one VERSI sort of back
in twenty twelve, but relaunched in twenty sixteen in its
current peak industry body format and think tank format. So
in these last eight years we've really worked with the
power of our collective over eighty members now spanning India
to China, including the Middle East, which ranges from government
(03:19):
pensions funds sovereign wealth funds, insurers, asset managers, and all
members of the investment value chain to address systemic climate issues,
and these are recognized as one of the biggest risks
to long term.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Returns that investors have.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So aigcc's three core areas of work include how we
work with investors. We support and enable them to primarily
fulfill their fiduciary duties and helping them to understand and
assess the financial risks and opportunities of climate as well
as nature, working with them to understand the economics of
(03:53):
climate change, and the agency that investors have, particularly working
together to partner with policymakers and corporate decision makers to
achieve the same objectives. But it's really working across these
three groups that we can see how we can accelerate
understanding and then leading to action on climate from each
of those different stakeholders in different ways. We support investors
(04:13):
to work with their invest companies. This includes setting clear
transition plans including specific targets, decombonization strategies, and allocating capital
away from unsustainable activities towards more sustainable economic activities. And
then those investor expectations what they need to see at
a sector and systemic level, including public policy, which leads
(04:34):
me to our third Maine pillar, which is engaging with
policy makers and regulators around the region to help them
understand the economics in the investment case of climate and
how investors think about this, that they incorporate investor perspectives
in their policy decision making and regulatory development. And what
we've seen is that this really can lead to providing
(04:55):
more confidence and political will to enact and enable accelerating
policy that will ultimately lead to greater capital flows.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And that's what we need to address the transition.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Fantastic, Thank you, Rebecca. Now, I know that AIGCC does
a regular survey of its members which should provide useful
insights into what I'm curious about, which is, how would
you describe the current state of play on climate action
in Asia.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yes, we recently launched our sixth annual flagship report looking
at the state of in climate transition in Asia, and
so we are now taking the last couple of years.
We take a look at over two hundred and thirty
institutional investors with one hundred trillion dollars of assets under
management equivalent, as well as a member survey and what
we found is that in general, we're seeing an improvement
(05:41):
across all the major climate metrics are compared to last year,
so we're seeing ongoing progress. So that's particularly great to
hear in this current environment, which we'll probably talk a
bit more about later. So the five key priorities that
I'll highlight, Starting with the largest year on year increases
in progress, we're now seeing thirty four percent of these
investors are now interested in investing in climate solutions, so
(06:03):
those often earlier stage technologies, and then the transition finance
assets like you're existing industrial assets and they might need
to switch fuel sources and things over time.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So that's increased.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And also the largest increase actually was a fifteen percent
increase in the approaches to fossil fuel policies that investors
have really articulating their strategy and approach around that, getting
more granularity there. And around same numbers, about thirty five
percent of these investors have now published a climate transition plan,
so about a seven percent increase there, and this could
(06:36):
be attributed to the current and future regulations coming through
requiring investors and companies to disclose their risks and opportunities
and plans for addressing these risks through that mandatory in
some markets now and voluntary climate reporting that we're really
starting to see come through and become a much more
standardized expectation anyway, from regulators slowly moving to mandatory in
(06:59):
some markets or ready and physical risk assessments of portfolios
have increased, which is good to see, I think, increased
awareness of the economic costs of the damages that we're
seeing from these increasing climate events, so twelve percent increase
this year, and also we're starting to see some inclusion
of deforestation policies and strategies, so that's good to see
that that's starting to come through. So we're really seeing
(07:20):
this increasing expertise understanding and then also recognizing and starting
to incorporate into portfolios of these financially material risks to investors.
So we're very encouraged by this progress, but it's still
not happening fast enough. It's not happening at the scale
and speed that is needed to address global warming, so
(07:41):
there's plenty more work to do there.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
That's great now. A key challenge, certainly for small investors,
but even for bigger institutions is figuring out how to
best integrate high level guidance from asset owners, governments and
regulators into their own investment policies and investment strategy. Given
that eagcc's membership includes many of the biggest investors based
in Asia, you must have interesting views into how some
(08:03):
of these institutional investors in the region are translating policy
into action. Would you mind sharing some of those with
our listeners.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, sure, Look, I think there's some good examples out there.
So one that comes to mind is the Japanese Government
Pension Fund g P if they just issued a suite
of sustainable investment policies just in March, and they outline
their sustainable their stewitship roadmap, and this is available, and
this really re emphasizes then the strong.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Signal towards gpis.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
View in securing that long term returns for the benefits
of their beneficiaries in Japan and that ESG and sustainability
is an essential component to delivering long term sustainable returns.
So this is really encouraging, and we've also seen this
reiterated from some of the largest investors globally. The Norusian
Government Pension Fund as well also reiterated their position around
(08:57):
climate and the need to focus on climate and g
C Singapore as well have also you know, again highlighted
the need and where they see the new opportunities. I mean,
I think we're seeing across these investors, we're seeing they're
setting more targets around climate solutions.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So I just alluded to some of the numbers.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
In the survey there increasing their targets and how do
they really drive that demand through often their public listed equities,
how their companies, their investing companies, you know, what is
their capital allocation into solutions, So driving that demand through
their big exposures down to the climate solutions which tend
to be smaller and perhaps harder for institutional investors to
(09:39):
access and to put money into because they have to
invest larger chunks of capital. So we're seeing this, you know,
through our corporate engagement programs, really driving that demand through
their companies and investors saying we want to see how
much of your capital expendituy you're putting into these solutions
compared to your targets.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
So so corporate engagement is one key way.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
They're doing that, and we have seen that really reinforced
from European and UK asset owners as well, really looking
at stewardship practices of their managers and putting out expectations
quite publicly about what they expect managers to do around
stewardship really broadly and whether that's involvement with initiatives, how
(10:21):
they're voting with companies, So putting expectations out there, and
I think it's really important to highlight that, particularly at
the moment when there's a lot of negative press coverage
around ESG fund flows, Investors are potentially walking away from ESG,
which is more comes out from the US, but the
media tends to conflict that sometimes and maybe make it
(10:44):
sounds worse than it is. So I think it's really
important to highlight that. Particularly what we're seeing from investors
in Asia and investors globally actually is they're staying the
course on this. They're staying the course on ESG climate.
The science hasn't changed into the fundamentals haven't changed, and
so they're continuing the work they're doing. So we see
(11:08):
the net zero investment framework is a key framework that
investors are using, and you can use this whether you know.
Investors can use this, whether they're part of initiatives or not,
which really goes through asset class by asset class to
see how you can transition that asset class to net zero.
Public equities are often easier, there's more data available, you
(11:28):
can engage with those companies, but going to private equity
infrastructure and different asset classes, so gradually moving across you know,
your multi asset class approach, and so really we start
to see that broadening out and deeper integration from investors
going through all of their different portfolios. Gradually of course,
(11:51):
but that's what we're starting to see come through, and
then that engagement with their own managers and engagement with
their corporates as well to see more adaptation plans come
into this. This is a newer area as I mentioned,
the physical risk impacts, the scenarios, the climate scenarios particularly,
and what we see when investors have done this work,
(12:14):
which scenarios, the impacts of different scenarios, if it's a
three degree scenario or one point five degree warming scenario.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
It's really clear.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
When the investors have done that work when they see
the implications for their portfolio, and generally speaking, investors see
that limiting warming to one point five degrees, their portfolio
is much better off. In gpis case, several years ago,
they said our portfolio will be seventeen percent better off
if we stabilize global climate to one point five degrees.
(12:43):
That provides pretty big incentive to tackle that system's approach,
to try and do what we can to keep global
temperatures and the associated policies to that one point five limit,
and we can get into systems approach perhaps a bit later.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
That's really just thing. Thank you for that, Reboka. If
I move back to some of the challenges that smaller
investors tend to say that they face, I'm curious what
strategies or practices would you say have been the most
effective in driving why the climate action and the regions
so far. Could you share some examples that you've encountered,
(13:20):
either among the agcc's members or elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
So, I think I mean taking it back to first principles.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I think where we see really thorough integration. It depends
on the approach that investors take, and you can take
different approaches.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Some people have started.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
With a let's just do these renewable energy infrastructure investments.
It did quite well, Oh that's good, Let's do more
of that, and then they've gone, oh, well, let's have
a look at this more broadly, maybe we should actually
have a firm wide policy. So I think where we
see that really solid integration is where you've seen that
developing climate policies internally, which incorporates the values, you know,
(13:56):
what are the investment values of the organization, the investment beliefs.
Then that can go into the strategy development, then it
gets incorporated into portfolios and then working as a group.
I think the collective piece is really critically important. No
one investor can solve climate on their own, no one government,
So it has to be a collective effort and investors
sharing this knowledge, their experience, learning from others' experiences, challenges,
(14:21):
and adapting it to their own organization, sharing the workload
on corporate engagement, on policy engagement, really leaning into using
the strength of the group approach regionally and globally can
help drive corporate engagement the policy work. And a good
example of this is we've seen on the mandatory disclosures
(14:42):
globally a coordinated effort of investors to say we need
a more coordinated global approach to climate reporting, and so
kind of a global effort to really advocate for that
across all markets to get that standardization. We're now seeing
that come through, and this is a win for investors,
it's a win for companies.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
But until it's mandatory everywhere, then we're still going to
have some challenges with that.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
But really it saves time, it saves resources, and so
that collective action is really critical and we see that
that accelerates action for investors internally and in the policy
piece and in that corporate engagement piece as well. And
we take that system systems approach, and you need the
whole system to work together because you can only get
so far with one piece of that.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
So I think, you know, corporate.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Engagement is widely used in the region as one of
the key strategies that investors are using, but again it
doesn't work on its own until you start to bring
in the policy and the regulatory engagement piece as well.
And I think there's a recognition that there's.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
More work that can be done.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
But the opportunities for investable projects in emerging markets is
I think there's a new global awareness of what's possible
and the investments that's possible in the Asia region, but
it's really trying to go how do we how do
we now make that happen. So I think that there's
sort of a pivot to like, let's invest in the
region then, and now, how do we actually go about
implementing that?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
So we're really getting that increased demand from global investors
to say, right, how can we how can we support
you know, more investment opportunities you know, across this region.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
That's really interesting and maybe building on that a bit,
what strategies or practices would you say have been less
effective than helped. Drawing on the experience of the aagcc's members,
I guess I'm asking because I'm curious whether they are
only lessons that you've learned for the benefit of our listeners.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Look, I think it starts with starting.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It starts with just getting on board and starting and
talking to people and not being afraid that you don't
know everything. Nobody knows everything. So it comes back to
that collective piece. And I think what doesn't work is
is where we've seen piecemeal, disparate approaches, whether that's with investors,
with the corporating aagement with the policy. So again looking
(17:01):
at that really holistic view and this system systemic approach
that I've talked about a couple of times. So I
think you know I already mentioned you know, where we
see investors make progress is when they use frameworks like
the next zero Investment Framework and have a policy in
place to work it through their portfolios. It really creates
an internal process to set targets and timelines. And then
(17:23):
you need the ABC, you need accountability within the organization,
you need board level buying in to obviously make that happen,
and then that collaboration piece with others and that learning
through others, and I think that's what that's what really works.
So and I think we've just been gradually doing more
and more and more of this as opposed to what
really doesn't work. I think the language, the terminology that
(17:44):
we use in the industry can be confusing, and that's
been evolving over the years. So you know, hopefully we're
seeing a bit of standardization and there the can definitely
be some more streamlining of that.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I think there's agreement around.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
That, and I guess an evidence point that I can
I can say is that our members are outperforming the
benchmark within this cohort of two hundred and thirty investors
that we survey, our members are significantly outperforming across those
climate metrics. So I guess that that approach, that collaboration
and learning from others, that sort of unique peer trusted
(18:15):
peer sharing environment, you know, is really working using these frameworks,
co developing frameworks for investors so they're useful for you
rather than you know, here's something, go and use it,
figure it out. It's really working on that together. That
really sort of deep, deep implementation kind of support work.
So I think that's that's what works. I mean, one
(18:35):
you know something about that doesn't work, I suppose is brainwashing.
That's something we have been seeing and really that can
be a big impediment to the green transition. It really
risks distorting financial markets and undermining effective allocation of capital.
So we produced a guide on this with Client Earth
in twenty twenty three, and.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
There's some key recommendations to guard against this.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
And you know, so for for investment is to really
scrutinize the accuracy and credibility of any green statement in
good and green faith. We say, you know, the transparency
around green objectives and how they're integrated into the financial
product or its financial objective. And this applies for investors
own products as well as anything that they get from
from others that they work with, whether it's corporates or
(19:19):
other members of the investment value chain, walking the green talk,
ensuring that the company or funds you know, green image
is consistent with their actions of their company or fund
and their actions in relation to third parties. That's that's
a pretty good test the shades of green. You know,
(19:39):
the expectations and regulations rather rapidly evolving, so monitoring developments
in jurisdictions, it's a.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Very fast moving pace. We've got it.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
We've got a team that keep an eye on that,
as I know Bloomberg does and benef so you know,
being able to have access to that is pretty critical
because it's it's moved so quickly in the last few years.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And then a of course, you know green.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Duties, the legal and fiduciary duties to investors, beneficiaries and stakeholders.
That's pretty critical. So there's just kind of a couple
of key things to avoid against those some of those
pitfalls and some of those you know what doesn't work
or where it's less effective, and if you can kind
of keep all that in mind, then that hopefully will
be a good a good guy to you know, keep
(20:22):
things in mind and how to approach this work.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Thank you, Rebecca, really helpful and maybe to shift gears
a little. I'd also like to explore how investors in
Asia are thinking about the just transition, the idea that
as we transform how economic activity is performed to reduce
emissions and also mitigate climate change, that transition must also
be fair to people who make a living from industries
that are most effective, whether it's coal mining or agriculture
(20:48):
or steel and cement production. Would you mind sharing how
EERGCC and its members are thinking about ensuring a just
transition and their work to drive change.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
So we've been gradually incorporating the just transition elements into
the corporate engagement work we do through the Climate Action
one hundred plus initiative, and we've included it in the
Global Benchmark a couple of years ago, but it's still
fairly early days, and so we've seen some trends about
how just transition objectives have been integrated with other engagement
(21:20):
priorities like decarbonization strategies, capital allocation, and companies target setting goals.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
So really kind of looking at it.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
We're starting to integrate this more comprehensively in the engagement
process and a lot of engagements cite just transition as
a real priority. They are also considering engaging with boards
on this topic of companies following initial conversations with management
to ensure that the strategically integrated nature of just transition
is being thought about by the company and being taken seriously.
(21:51):
It is a fairly newer piece of work though about
how and there's a new piece of work brought out
by our Australian peer network on investor expectations of corporate
just transition plans. And that's really a global sort of
a desktop review of all the tools currently available for
investors engaging around the just transition and really bringing that
(22:13):
into some specific expectations for companies to help investors engage
with the companies with a bit of an Australian lens
to some extent, but actually there's a lot of universality.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
To what's in that report and the tools that are
put in there.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
We've just started a new work program dedicated to just
transition with AIGCC just this year in fact, and looking
at how you know, obviously Asia needs catalytic capital and
how the transition finance needs to crowd in private investors,
but with this really shared commitment to equity as well
as risk sharing. So the institutional investors, you know, have
(22:48):
a unique role to signal expectations and allocate capital and
shape the frameworks. So I mentioned the just Transition plans
that they're looking at through corporate disclosure and looking for
more details around that that board level oversight piece of
the social elements, looking at what policy reform looks like
(23:08):
for equitable transition finance, and also looking at integrating social
risk into portfolio strategies through sectoral mapping of social risk
exposures and adjusting for workforce reskilling, livelihoods and what are
the better outcomes for people at risk from the transition
on equitable terms. So it's really come through very quickly
(23:29):
in the last few years in the region as a
top priority for investors, for companies and for governments alike.
So this work is just getting started, but you should
see some things coming out from us publicly in the
coming months.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
And that's great. And maybe looking ahead as well, what
are some of the key focus of work for the AAGCC.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
So obviously I just talked about the Just Transition work
that's just starting up. We're really focus building up our
in market engagements across Asian markets, more so including Malaysia,
in Indonesia. We've been doing some work in China for
a little while. India's starting, so we'll start to do
more a bit in India. But I think something that's
(24:13):
a continuation of work we've been that it has been
a high priority for investors for quite some time is
sector plans, and that's something that investors really need to
help take that next phase of how to allocate their
capital across the different sectors.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
This is pretty complicated work.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
There's been quite a lot of work done in Australia,
in Japan, and a lot of markets have done and
in China as well. I should say a lot of
markets though have been tending to focus on the energy
sector for obvious reasons with the dependencies on that sector
of other sectors, so targeting that first. So we're really
looking doing a lot of work on energy sectors grid
(24:52):
work in the region different markets, because obviously unlocking the grid,
changing the grid structures from the traditional greeds to more
decentralized grids is it really is a key to opening
up more renewable energy penetration and therefore supporting the transition
across different markets. So that's an area that we're looking at.
But yeah, so's there's a couple of areas of focus
(25:14):
for us going forward, and physical risk and resilience is
also a key area that will be continuing to build on.
We're doing quite a bit of work engaging with governments
on their national adaptation plans and getting great reception on that.
It's it's harder, it's harder to identify how to finance resilience,
but it's an area that investors recognize they need to
(25:37):
lean into managing their own exposures to their portfolios and
then looking at how investors can actually help finance resilience,
which is really critical because governments don't have the balance
sheets to fund that themselves. So what does developing products
look like? And so that's that'll be an area of
future work of ours as well.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
And maybe just on this topic which is on everyone's minds,
we're witnessing a strong backlash the many things esg or
thin key regions of the world, especially in the US
and parts of Europe as well. How would you say
this is being reflected in how Asia investors think about
their own climate initiatives. I know you touched on some
of this earlier as well.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, so I think it comes back to the fundamentals again.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Climate risk is financial risk.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Asian investors are staying the course, they've done the work,
they understand the risks that climate poses to them, the
risks to their returns, and then the beneficiaries for those
that need to pay out beneficiaries or to their clients.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So it's pretty existential for them.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And so really taking that system's lens again, how are
they're working across all parts of the system in the
markets they operate in and prioritizing them for different types
of investors they are. So I think that's a good
signal that I talked about before. We need to keep
promoting that, and we need to keep bringing out examples
of different investors and where they're talking about that, and
(27:02):
that's something we need to and sharing that knowledge and
sharing that benefit.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I think one thing that.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Is a bit worrying when I hear it is if
investors say, we'll look at ESG when you show me
the alpha, we'll look at climate, show me the alpha,
show me the opportunities. But what they're not looking at
is will you actually be able to make the benchmark.
We've seen more and more funds come out around the
region saying if you don't look at climate risk, well
(27:28):
they've said, we won't even be able to reach the benchmark.
So what are they doing to address that risk? So
I think investors who aren't addressing that risk are at
risk themselves. And so it's really about looking at managing
that climate risk is sort of the starting point and
a lot of the job, and then moving to what
are the opportunities look like on the other side, And
there are more opportunities in this region, you know, than
(27:52):
anywhere globally. So we're seeing increased interest into these climate initiatives.
We're seeing investors continue to do the work, so we're
not seeing a slow as AI GCC has grown means
more investors are getting involved, want to do this work,
and the investors are expanding their teams, broadening their teams
and really building their own internal experience and expertise and
(28:13):
capability and then sharing that, you know, getting that deeper
into their own organizations.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So it's only.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Going in one direction because because that's where returns will
be better off, and ultimately that can support you know,
stabilizing the climate, and investors have a really big collective role,
you know, an agency to really create the future they need,
rather than just sitting back and waiting to sort of
accept what comes.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Thank you so much, Rebecca. I really love to continue
our conversation, but we are almost out of time for today.
Thank you again so much for your time and sharing
your insights to all our listeners. I hope you enjoyed
my conversation with Rebecca as much as I have. You
can find out more information about how companies and industries
globally are responding to ESG related risks and opportunities by
(29:02):
going to bispace ESG go on any Bloomberg terminal, and
if you have an ESG quandary or burning question you
would like to ask bi's expert analysts, please do send
us an email at ESG Currents at Bloomberg dot net.
Thank you for tuning in and to join us again
next time
ESG has become established as a key business team as
companies and investors seek to navigate the climate crisis, energy transition,
social mega trends, mounting regulatory attention and pressure from other stakeholders.
The rapidly evolving landscape has become inundated with acronyms, buzzwords,
and lingo. We aim to break these down with industry experts.
(00:30):
Welcome to ESG Currents, your guide to navigating the evolving
ESG space, one topic at a time, Brought to you
by Bloomberg Intelligence, part of Bloomberg's research department with five
hundred analysts and strategists working across all major world markets.
I'm Conrad Dunn, ESG integration analyst for APAK at Bloomberg Intelligence,
and I'm your host for today's episode. Today we're talking
(00:51):
about climate action in Asia, the current state of play,
and how institutional investors in the region are navigating evolving
regulations and structural challenges to translate policy into action, How
considerations such as supporting a just transition influenced their strategy,
and the implications of the backlash against ESG in key
parts of the world. For companies, sustainability initiatives joining me
(01:15):
today is Rebecca Mikola Wright, CEO of the Asia Investor
Group on Climate Change or AIGCC, which I'll invite Rebecca
to share more about in just a moment. Rebecca has
worked in climate change, sustainability and investment banking for over
twenty years in Hong Kong, Europe and Australia. And today
I'm sitting in Singapore while Rebecca is joining me from Sydney. Rebecca,
(01:37):
really delighted to have you with.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Us, Hi Conrad, really great to be with you today.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Now, Rebecca, could you tell us briefly about your own background,
how you got involved in sustainability, and also about AIGCC,
what it represents and the work that you do.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So I started my career in investment banking in London
with Ipey Morgan, and at the same time I was
working with some animal environmental conservation groups there and then
back in Australia as well. I lived in Prague for
a while in Czech Republic in Europe, and I worked
for Exceonomobile as a credit analyst and gained a really
fascinating insight into the organization. Then I moved to Hong
(02:12):
Kong and got into equity research with Nimura and started
an Environment committee while at Numerous Securities, and these two
roles were really my formative lessons in the financial materiality
of ESG issues, although we certainly didn't call it that
at the time. And really, you know, I learned the
early challenges of getting buying and implementation in the nascent
sustainable investment industry while I was living in Hong Kong
(02:34):
and saw what was happening across the region and to
some extent globally as well. And it was while I
was there in Hong Kong that I really had the
realization of the power of using large global capital pools
from institutional investors that would be able to help collectively
solve the climate challenge. And I saw some early examples
of how collaborations were working to address the issues. So
(02:56):
I actually started AIGCC in one VERSI sort of back
in twenty twelve, but relaunched in twenty sixteen in its
current peak industry body format and think tank format. So
in these last eight years we've really worked with the
power of our collective over eighty members now spanning India
to China, including the Middle East, which ranges from government
(03:19):
pensions funds sovereign wealth funds, insurers, asset managers, and all
members of the investment value chain to address systemic climate issues,
and these are recognized as one of the biggest risks
to long term.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Returns that investors have.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
So aigcc's three core areas of work include how we
work with investors. We support and enable them to primarily
fulfill their fiduciary duties and helping them to understand and
assess the financial risks and opportunities of climate as well
as nature, working with them to understand the economics of
(03:53):
climate change, and the agency that investors have, particularly working
together to partner with policymakers and corporate decision makers to
achieve the same objectives. But it's really working across these
three groups that we can see how we can accelerate
understanding and then leading to action on climate from each
of those different stakeholders in different ways. We support investors
(04:13):
to work with their invest companies. This includes setting clear
transition plans including specific targets, decombonization strategies, and allocating capital
away from unsustainable activities towards more sustainable economic activities. And
then those investor expectations what they need to see at
a sector and systemic level, including public policy, which leads
(04:34):
me to our third Maine pillar, which is engaging with
policy makers and regulators around the region to help them
understand the economics in the investment case of climate and
how investors think about this, that they incorporate investor perspectives
in their policy decision making and regulatory development. And what
we've seen is that this really can lead to providing
(04:55):
more confidence and political will to enact and enable accelerating
policy that will ultimately lead to greater capital flows.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
And that's what we need to address the transition.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Fantastic, Thank you, Rebecca. Now, I know that AIGCC does
a regular survey of its members which should provide useful
insights into what I'm curious about, which is, how would
you describe the current state of play on climate action
in Asia.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yes, we recently launched our sixth annual flagship report looking
at the state of in climate transition in Asia, and
so we are now taking the last couple of years.
We take a look at over two hundred and thirty
institutional investors with one hundred trillion dollars of assets under
management equivalent, as well as a member survey and what
we found is that in general, we're seeing an improvement
(05:41):
across all the major climate metrics are compared to last year,
so we're seeing ongoing progress. So that's particularly great to
hear in this current environment, which we'll probably talk a
bit more about later. So the five key priorities that
I'll highlight, Starting with the largest year on year increases
in progress, we're now seeing thirty four percent of these
investors are now interested in investing in climate solutions, so
(06:03):
those often earlier stage technologies, and then the transition finance
assets like you're existing industrial assets and they might need
to switch fuel sources and things over time.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So that's increased.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And also the largest increase actually was a fifteen percent
increase in the approaches to fossil fuel policies that investors
have really articulating their strategy and approach around that, getting
more granularity there. And around same numbers, about thirty five
percent of these investors have now published a climate transition plan,
so about a seven percent increase there, and this could
(06:36):
be attributed to the current and future regulations coming through
requiring investors and companies to disclose their risks and opportunities
and plans for addressing these risks through that mandatory in
some markets now and voluntary climate reporting that we're really
starting to see come through and become a much more
standardized expectation anyway, from regulators slowly moving to mandatory in
(06:59):
some markets or ready and physical risk assessments of portfolios
have increased, which is good to see, I think, increased
awareness of the economic costs of the damages that we're
seeing from these increasing climate events, so twelve percent increase
this year, and also we're starting to see some inclusion
of deforestation policies and strategies, so that's good to see
that that's starting to come through. So we're really seeing
(07:20):
this increasing expertise understanding and then also recognizing and starting
to incorporate into portfolios of these financially material risks to investors.
So we're very encouraged by this progress, but it's still
not happening fast enough. It's not happening at the scale
and speed that is needed to address global warming, so
(07:41):
there's plenty more work to do there.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
That's great now. A key challenge, certainly for small investors,
but even for bigger institutions is figuring out how to
best integrate high level guidance from asset owners, governments and
regulators into their own investment policies and investment strategy. Given
that eagcc's membership includes many of the biggest investors based
in Asia, you must have interesting views into how some
(08:03):
of these institutional investors in the region are translating policy
into action. Would you mind sharing some of those with
our listeners.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, sure, Look, I think there's some good examples out there.
So one that comes to mind is the Japanese Government
Pension Fund g P if they just issued a suite
of sustainable investment policies just in March, and they outline
their sustainable their stewitship roadmap, and this is available, and
this really re emphasizes then the strong.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Signal towards gpis.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
View in securing that long term returns for the benefits
of their beneficiaries in Japan and that ESG and sustainability
is an essential component to delivering long term sustainable returns.
So this is really encouraging, and we've also seen this
reiterated from some of the largest investors globally. The Norusian
Government Pension Fund as well also reiterated their position around
(08:57):
climate and the need to focus on climate and g
C Singapore as well have also you know, again highlighted
the need and where they see the new opportunities. I mean,
I think we're seeing across these investors, we're seeing they're
setting more targets around climate solutions.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
So I just alluded to some of the numbers.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
In the survey there increasing their targets and how do
they really drive that demand through often their public listed equities,
how their companies, their investing companies, you know, what is
their capital allocation into solutions, So driving that demand through
their big exposures down to the climate solutions which tend
to be smaller and perhaps harder for institutional investors to
(09:39):
access and to put money into because they have to
invest larger chunks of capital. So we're seeing this, you know,
through our corporate engagement programs, really driving that demand through
their companies and investors saying we want to see how
much of your capital expendituy you're putting into these solutions
compared to your targets.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
So so corporate engagement is one key way.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
They're doing that, and we have seen that really reinforced
from European and UK asset owners as well, really looking
at stewardship practices of their managers and putting out expectations
quite publicly about what they expect managers to do around
stewardship really broadly and whether that's involvement with initiatives, how
(10:21):
they're voting with companies, So putting expectations out there, and
I think it's really important to highlight that, particularly at
the moment when there's a lot of negative press coverage
around ESG fund flows, Investors are potentially walking away from ESG,
which is more comes out from the US, but the
media tends to conflict that sometimes and maybe make it
(10:44):
sounds worse than it is. So I think it's really
important to highlight that. Particularly what we're seeing from investors
in Asia and investors globally actually is they're staying the
course on this. They're staying the course on ESG climate.
The science hasn't changed into the fundamentals haven't changed, and
so they're continuing the work they're doing. So we see
(11:08):
the net zero investment framework is a key framework that
investors are using, and you can use this whether you know.
Investors can use this, whether they're part of initiatives or not,
which really goes through asset class by asset class to
see how you can transition that asset class to net zero.
Public equities are often easier, there's more data available, you
(11:28):
can engage with those companies, but going to private equity
infrastructure and different asset classes, so gradually moving across you know,
your multi asset class approach, and so really we start
to see that broadening out and deeper integration from investors
going through all of their different portfolios. Gradually of course,
(11:51):
but that's what we're starting to see come through, and
then that engagement with their own managers and engagement with
their corporates as well to see more adaptation plans come
into this. This is a newer area as I mentioned,
the physical risk impacts, the scenarios, the climate scenarios particularly,
and what we see when investors have done this work,
(12:14):
which scenarios, the impacts of different scenarios, if it's a
three degree scenario or one point five degree warming scenario.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
It's really clear.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
When the investors have done that work when they see
the implications for their portfolio, and generally speaking, investors see
that limiting warming to one point five degrees, their portfolio
is much better off. In gpis case, several years ago,
they said our portfolio will be seventeen percent better off
if we stabilize global climate to one point five degrees.
(12:43):
That provides pretty big incentive to tackle that system's approach,
to try and do what we can to keep global
temperatures and the associated policies to that one point five limit,
and we can get into systems approach perhaps a bit later.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
That's really just thing. Thank you for that, Reboka. If
I move back to some of the challenges that smaller
investors tend to say that they face, I'm curious what
strategies or practices would you say have been the most
effective in driving why the climate action and the regions
so far. Could you share some examples that you've encountered,
(13:20):
either among the agcc's members or elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
So, I think I mean taking it back to first principles.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
I think where we see really thorough integration. It depends
on the approach that investors take, and you can take
different approaches.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Some people have started.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
With a let's just do these renewable energy infrastructure investments.
It did quite well, Oh that's good, Let's do more
of that, and then they've gone, oh, well, let's have
a look at this more broadly, maybe we should actually
have a firm wide policy. So I think where we
see that really solid integration is where you've seen that
developing climate policies internally, which incorporates the values, you know,
(13:56):
what are the investment values of the organization, the investment beliefs.
Then that can go into the strategy development, then it
gets incorporated into portfolios and then working as a group.
I think the collective piece is really critically important. No
one investor can solve climate on their own, no one government,
So it has to be a collective effort and investors
sharing this knowledge, their experience, learning from others' experiences, challenges,
(14:21):
and adapting it to their own organization, sharing the workload
on corporate engagement, on policy engagement, really leaning into using
the strength of the group approach regionally and globally can
help drive corporate engagement the policy work. And a good
example of this is we've seen on the mandatory disclosures
(14:42):
globally a coordinated effort of investors to say we need
a more coordinated global approach to climate reporting, and so
kind of a global effort to really advocate for that
across all markets to get that standardization. We're now seeing
that come through, and this is a win for investors,
it's a win for companies.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
But until it's mandatory everywhere, then we're still going to
have some challenges with that.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
But really it saves time, it saves resources, and so
that collective action is really critical and we see that
that accelerates action for investors internally and in the policy
piece and in that corporate engagement piece as well. And
we take that system systems approach, and you need the
whole system to work together because you can only get
so far with one piece of that.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
So I think, you know, corporate.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Engagement is widely used in the region as one of
the key strategies that investors are using, but again it
doesn't work on its own until you start to bring
in the policy and the regulatory engagement piece as well.
And I think there's a recognition that there's.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
More work that can be done.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
But the opportunities for investable projects in emerging markets is
I think there's a new global awareness of what's possible
and the investments that's possible in the Asia region, but
it's really trying to go how do we how do
we now make that happen. So I think that there's
sort of a pivot to like, let's invest in the
region then, and now, how do we actually go about
implementing that?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
What does that look like?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
So we're really getting that increased demand from global investors
to say, right, how can we how can we support
you know, more investment opportunities you know, across this region.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
That's really interesting and maybe building on that a bit,
what strategies or practices would you say have been less
effective than helped. Drawing on the experience of the aagcc's members,
I guess I'm asking because I'm curious whether they are
only lessons that you've learned for the benefit of our listeners.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Look, I think it starts with starting.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It starts with just getting on board and starting and
talking to people and not being afraid that you don't
know everything. Nobody knows everything. So it comes back to
that collective piece. And I think what doesn't work is
is where we've seen piecemeal, disparate approaches, whether that's with investors,
with the corporating aagement with the policy. So again looking
(17:01):
at that really holistic view and this system systemic approach
that I've talked about a couple of times. So I
think you know I already mentioned you know, where we
see investors make progress is when they use frameworks like
the next zero Investment Framework and have a policy in
place to work it through their portfolios. It really creates
an internal process to set targets and timelines. And then
(17:23):
you need the ABC, you need accountability within the organization,
you need board level buying in to obviously make that happen,
and then that collaboration piece with others and that learning
through others, and I think that's what that's what really works.
So and I think we've just been gradually doing more
and more and more of this as opposed to what
really doesn't work. I think the language, the terminology that
(17:44):
we use in the industry can be confusing, and that's
been evolving over the years. So you know, hopefully we're
seeing a bit of standardization and there the can definitely
be some more streamlining of that.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
I think there's agreement around.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
That, and I guess an evidence point that I can
I can say is that our members are outperforming the
benchmark within this cohort of two hundred and thirty investors
that we survey, our members are significantly outperforming across those
climate metrics. So I guess that that approach, that collaboration
and learning from others, that sort of unique peer trusted
(18:15):
peer sharing environment, you know, is really working using these frameworks,
co developing frameworks for investors so they're useful for you
rather than you know, here's something, go and use it,
figure it out. It's really working on that together. That
really sort of deep, deep implementation kind of support work.
So I think that's that's what works. I mean, one
(18:35):
you know something about that doesn't work, I suppose is brainwashing.
That's something we have been seeing and really that can
be a big impediment to the green transition. It really
risks distorting financial markets and undermining effective allocation of capital.
So we produced a guide on this with Client Earth
in twenty twenty three, and.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
There's some key recommendations to guard against this.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
And you know, so for for investment is to really
scrutinize the accuracy and credibility of any green statement in
good and green faith. We say, you know, the transparency
around green objectives and how they're integrated into the financial
product or its financial objective. And this applies for investors
own products as well as anything that they get from
from others that they work with, whether it's corporates or
(19:19):
other members of the investment value chain, walking the green talk,
ensuring that the company or funds you know, green image
is consistent with their actions of their company or fund
and their actions in relation to third parties. That's that's
a pretty good test the shades of green. You know,
(19:39):
the expectations and regulations rather rapidly evolving, so monitoring developments
in jurisdictions, it's a.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Very fast moving pace. We've got it.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
We've got a team that keep an eye on that,
as I know Bloomberg does and benef so you know,
being able to have access to that is pretty critical
because it's it's moved so quickly in the last few years.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And then a of course, you know green.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Duties, the legal and fiduciary duties to investors, beneficiaries and stakeholders.
That's pretty critical. So there's just kind of a couple
of key things to avoid against those some of those
pitfalls and some of those you know what doesn't work
or where it's less effective, and if you can kind
of keep all that in mind, then that hopefully will
be a good a good guy to you know, keep
(20:22):
things in mind and how to approach this work.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Thank you, Rebecca, really helpful and maybe to shift gears
a little. I'd also like to explore how investors in
Asia are thinking about the just transition, the idea that
as we transform how economic activity is performed to reduce
emissions and also mitigate climate change, that transition must also
be fair to people who make a living from industries
that are most effective, whether it's coal mining or agriculture
(20:48):
or steel and cement production. Would you mind sharing how
EERGCC and its members are thinking about ensuring a just
transition and their work to drive change.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
So we've been gradually incorporating the just transition elements into
the corporate engagement work we do through the Climate Action
one hundred plus initiative, and we've included it in the
Global Benchmark a couple of years ago, but it's still
fairly early days, and so we've seen some trends about
how just transition objectives have been integrated with other engagement
(21:20):
priorities like decarbonization strategies, capital allocation, and companies target setting goals.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
So really kind of looking at it.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
We're starting to integrate this more comprehensively in the engagement
process and a lot of engagements cite just transition as
a real priority. They are also considering engaging with boards
on this topic of companies following initial conversations with management
to ensure that the strategically integrated nature of just transition
is being thought about by the company and being taken seriously.
(21:51):
It is a fairly newer piece of work though about
how and there's a new piece of work brought out
by our Australian peer network on investor expectations of corporate
just transition plans. And that's really a global sort of
a desktop review of all the tools currently available for
investors engaging around the just transition and really bringing that
(22:13):
into some specific expectations for companies to help investors engage
with the companies with a bit of an Australian lens
to some extent, but actually there's a lot of universality.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
To what's in that report and the tools that are
put in there.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
We've just started a new work program dedicated to just
transition with AIGCC just this year in fact, and looking
at how you know, obviously Asia needs catalytic capital and
how the transition finance needs to crowd in private investors,
but with this really shared commitment to equity as well
as risk sharing. So the institutional investors, you know, have
(22:48):
a unique role to signal expectations and allocate capital and
shape the frameworks. So I mentioned the just Transition plans
that they're looking at through corporate disclosure and looking for
more details around that that board level oversight piece of
the social elements, looking at what policy reform looks like
(23:08):
for equitable transition finance, and also looking at integrating social
risk into portfolio strategies through sectoral mapping of social risk
exposures and adjusting for workforce reskilling, livelihoods and what are
the better outcomes for people at risk from the transition
on equitable terms. So it's really come through very quickly
(23:29):
in the last few years in the region as a
top priority for investors, for companies and for governments alike.
So this work is just getting started, but you should
see some things coming out from us publicly in the
coming months.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
And that's great. And maybe looking ahead as well, what
are some of the key focus of work for the AAGCC.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
So obviously I just talked about the Just Transition work
that's just starting up. We're really focus building up our
in market engagements across Asian markets, more so including Malaysia,
in Indonesia. We've been doing some work in China for
a little while. India's starting, so we'll start to do
more a bit in India. But I think something that's
(24:13):
a continuation of work we've been that it has been
a high priority for investors for quite some time is
sector plans, and that's something that investors really need to
help take that next phase of how to allocate their
capital across the different sectors.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
This is pretty complicated work.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
There's been quite a lot of work done in Australia,
in Japan, and a lot of markets have done and
in China as well. I should say a lot of
markets though have been tending to focus on the energy
sector for obvious reasons with the dependencies on that sector
of other sectors, so targeting that first. So we're really
looking doing a lot of work on energy sectors grid
(24:52):
work in the region different markets, because obviously unlocking the grid,
changing the grid structures from the traditional greeds to more
decentralized grids is it really is a key to opening
up more renewable energy penetration and therefore supporting the transition
across different markets. So that's an area that we're looking at.
But yeah, so's there's a couple of areas of focus
(25:14):
for us going forward, and physical risk and resilience is
also a key area that will be continuing to build on.
We're doing quite a bit of work engaging with governments
on their national adaptation plans and getting great reception on that.
It's it's harder, it's harder to identify how to finance resilience,
but it's an area that investors recognize they need to
(25:37):
lean into managing their own exposures to their portfolios and
then looking at how investors can actually help finance resilience,
which is really critical because governments don't have the balance
sheets to fund that themselves. So what does developing products
look like? And so that's that'll be an area of
future work of ours as well.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
And maybe just on this topic which is on everyone's minds,
we're witnessing a strong backlash the many things esg or
thin key regions of the world, especially in the US
and parts of Europe as well. How would you say
this is being reflected in how Asia investors think about
their own climate initiatives. I know you touched on some
of this earlier as well.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Yeah, so I think it comes back to the fundamentals again.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Climate risk is financial risk.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Asian investors are staying the course, they've done the work,
they understand the risks that climate poses to them, the
risks to their returns, and then the beneficiaries for those
that need to pay out beneficiaries or to their clients.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So it's pretty existential for them.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
And so really taking that system's lens again, how are
they're working across all parts of the system in the
markets they operate in and prioritizing them for different types
of investors they are. So I think that's a good
signal that I talked about before. We need to keep
promoting that, and we need to keep bringing out examples
of different investors and where they're talking about that, and
(27:02):
that's something we need to and sharing that knowledge and
sharing that benefit.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I think one thing that.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Is a bit worrying when I hear it is if
investors say, we'll look at ESG when you show me
the alpha, we'll look at climate, show me the alpha,
show me the opportunities. But what they're not looking at
is will you actually be able to make the benchmark.
We've seen more and more funds come out around the
region saying if you don't look at climate risk, well
(27:28):
they've said, we won't even be able to reach the benchmark.
So what are they doing to address that risk? So
I think investors who aren't addressing that risk are at
risk themselves. And so it's really about looking at managing
that climate risk is sort of the starting point and
a lot of the job, and then moving to what
are the opportunities look like on the other side, And
there are more opportunities in this region, you know, than
(27:52):
anywhere globally. So we're seeing increased interest into these climate initiatives.
We're seeing investors continue to do the work, so we're
not seeing a slow as AI GCC has grown means
more investors are getting involved, want to do this work,
and the investors are expanding their teams, broadening their teams
and really building their own internal experience and expertise and
(28:13):
capability and then sharing that, you know, getting that deeper
into their own organizations.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So it's only.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Going in one direction because because that's where returns will
be better off, and ultimately that can support you know,
stabilizing the climate, and investors have a really big collective role,
you know, an agency to really create the future they need,
rather than just sitting back and waiting to sort of
accept what comes.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Thank you so much, Rebecca. I really love to continue
our conversation, but we are almost out of time for today.
Thank you again so much for your time and sharing
your insights to all our listeners. I hope you enjoyed
my conversation with Rebecca as much as I have. You
can find out more information about how companies and industries
globally are responding to ESG related risks and opportunities by
(29:02):
going to bispace ESG go on any Bloomberg terminal, and
if you have an ESG quandary or burning question you
would like to ask bi's expert analysts, please do send
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