November 19, 2025 • 31 mins
From Coldplay to takeaways, Notpla is disrupting the single-use plastic epidemic. As global regulators tighten restrictions on plastic waste, innovation in natural materials is fast becoming an investment imperative. In this episode of ESG Currents, BI ESG analyst Grace Osborne speaks with Rodrigo García González, co-founder of Notpla, to explore how the company’s pioneering seaweed-based packaging is helping brands and investors transition toward a circular, regulation-ready future. Together, they discuss the evolution of product innovation, the shifting policy landscape, and how nature-based design can deliver both environmental and financial impact, as Notpla advances its bold goal to replace one billion units of plastic by 2030.
This episode was recorded 31 October.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
ESG is constantly evolving. Over the years, it is shifted
from socially responsible investing to impact to sustainable finance. While
the terminology continues to change, what hasn't changed are the
underlying science market pressures, tangible physical and financial impacts of
the climate crisis, as well as increasing regulatory scrutiny and
(00:22):
rising consumer expectations. We aim to filter out the noise
by speaking with industry experts to identify what is really
driving value. Welcome to ESG Currents, brought to you by
Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Welcome to today's episode. I'm Grace Osborne, your host, and
a mere ESG integration analyst. Today we are joined by
Rodrigo Garcier Gonzalez, co founder of Knoppler, a company leading
the charge against one of the biggest environmental challenges of
our time, single use plastic. Every year, more than three
(00:59):
hundred million tons of plastic are produced, generating massive waste,
polluting ecosystems and increasing regulatory risk for businesses around the world.
Knopler is tackling this crisis head on. Whether it's innovative
regenerative packaging materials made from seaweed and plants. The company's
impact is already being felt, partnering with major food delivery
(01:20):
services like just Eat and featured events ranging from Coldplay
concerts to Wimbledon. Their groundbreaking work has earned global recognition,
including the prestigious Earthshop price and a bold commitment to
replace one billion units of plastic by twenty thirty. Rodrigo's
journey is a powerful example of how design, science and
entrepreneurship can come together to reshape industries and build a
(01:44):
more sustainable future. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
Thank you so much for joining us, Fredrigo, And perhaps
could you just start by sharing Knoppler's origin story. What
inspired you to start the company and how did an
idea that I believe started from edible water bubbles evolve
into a full company.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, thank you for having me. So yes, my background
it's not too related with what we're doing now. But
I was an architect, but I was always fascinated with waste,
especially plastic waste. So I was initially building structures with
plastic bottles. So I did that for a few years,
and then I realized that, like even if I managed
(02:24):
to reuse and connect thousands of bottles, that was not
moving the needle enough. I came back to Academia and
I met Pierre Pasalia, who is the co founder, who
was a packaging engineer in Loreale, and we started to
ask the question of how nature package things, and we
found in nature and inspiration of how fruits, for example,
(02:45):
are done right. That is an amazing piece of packaging
because it's not only that it's edible, but it's regenerative
to the way that you can throw away what is
left and a new tree will grow with more fruits. Manly,
if you could do that with a plastic bottle, through
a plastic bottle and a new plastic bottle tree will grow,
that's the ultimate product design, experience or system. We have
(03:07):
not been able to do that yet, but what we
were able to do as a first product was this
product that we call it Oh. We call it in
that way because it was the sound that people normally
do when they see this product, they do.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Like whoa oh.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Basically, it's like looks like a little water bubble. We
make it zip size. You can drink the content and
if you want, you can eat the packaging around. The
packaging is made out of seaweed and it's a main
mem because nature use members to contain any type of
liquid is the most efficient way of using this. And yeah,
initially we did it not with the mission of making
a company. It was a project inside of the university.
(03:44):
But slowly and slowly it started to get some traction
and we were able to get a bit of funding
initially from the European Union to push this project with
some post dogs in Impederal College. And then we got
some funding through crowdfunding to build machinery to be able
to make this at larger scale, and then we were
able to scale it up to do things like the
London Marathon where we replace in one of the stations
(04:04):
or plastic bottles for this product. But we have done
many other different things and now we are working with
other big companies to do replacements for things like energy gels,
the success or the packaging outside of the energy gels.
But we have done things like sauces, alcohol shots, et cetera.
We have not done need done this product. On this journey,
(04:24):
we started to work quite a lot as well with
takeaway packaging. As you mentioned. In that case, what we
replace is the liner or the coating inside of the
takeaway packaging. So normally I don't know if people are
conscious of, but like when you buy something to take away,
normally it looks like cardboard outside, but internally it has plastic.
And that plastic is there in order to protect the
(04:47):
paper from the grease and the water of the food
or the liquid that you have inside, which is a
functional parameter that you need to on the packaging. But
at the same time that plastic it makes the paper
not recyclable, neither of the plastic, and it makes quite
a lot of kind of like challenges.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
In many different ways.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So we started to work initially with that company called
just takeaway dot Com that throw us a bit this
challenge of how you can you see weed to solve
this problem, and we started to work on solving it.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
And now that's one of the products that this.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Had bigger scale because now we have done over thirty
million units of plastic replace and we are in quite
a lot of places where plastic is used, from stadiums
to canteens, to theme parks to yeah, places where there's
consumption on the goal. And then we have been keep
pushing the limits of what we can do with seaweed
(05:40):
with this material, and recently we have been pushing to do.
Let's see the form that plastic gets transform and modify
in order to make products like flexible films or cutlery.
And now we started to make cutulary out of seaweed
and some flexible films out of seaweed with the idea
that they are natural and they could be postable or
(06:01):
in some cases are soluble or even edible. So for example,
we have now some of the film supermarkets in the
Netherland where people eat salad, so they wrap the salad
in this film and they can eat the salad.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
You need the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
It's not the purpose that all the packaging needs to
be edible. For example, the windows that we do in
our carbo packaging is the same material so or originally
you could eat.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
That is not the purpose.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
The fact that this edible is the absolute proof for
us that is not plastic. That's where the name comes
as well of the company of not Plasts for not.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I love that. I feel like people now getting your
bonus to the takeaway meal because they can eat their packaging.
It's amazing to hear actually how the product has evolved
and all those different use cases and those things that
we are interacting with every day. I think, even if
I'm going to go and buy my lunch in the
middle of the day and you have that packaging, and see,
the volume of waste is just huge. So it's really
(06:53):
fantastic to hear how you're kind of evolving and solving
for this massive problem. And I love that you're taking
that and from nature and hearing that story. I think, actually,
when we look at some of the big innovations in
the whole of history, they've taken a lot of inspiration
from nature, and this is like such an important way
of doing that to solve this problem. And of course
seaweed has been at the heart of the kind of
(07:15):
material innovation, and you have touched on this to an extent.
But I'm just curious, why did you initially go for
seaweed and what makes it such a game change compared
to like other biodegradable or compostible packaging.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
That's a really good question. So seaweed is the first
organism on Earth. You could almost argue that we are
all are made out of seaweed.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Real seaweed, Yeah, exactly, And.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
These have wonderful material. It's like saying plants, but plants
of the sea can go in every coastline. There is
normally three big families like red seaweeds, brown seweds, and
green seaweeds, but there is much more difference between the
DNA of our red seaweed and brown sewed that my
DNA and a massroom, so it's a lot of.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Variations inside of each of the species.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
The advantage of seaweed against any other kind of crops,
for example inland, is that you don't need fresh water
because they grow on the sea. You don't need any fertilizers,
you don't need to match human intervention, and it grows
really fast, so some of the seweds can grow up
to even a meteor or two per day. Wow, it
is the faster or simon on Earth as well on
that front, so that means that you can have as well,
(08:21):
several crops per year, so it's almost like capping grass
more than kind of like waiting for a crop that
will take a year or a tree that.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Will take forty years or more to grow.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Advantage as well of seaweed or planting seaweed is that
you can decidify the ocean, You can create new habitats
as every type of as well human intervention if you
are farming seaweed, you need to do it consciously and
not making the same mistakes that we have done in land,
so avoiding things like invasive species or monocultures. But we
do believe that if you do it in a conscious
(08:52):
way and sustainable way, it could be one of the
main resources that we have, not only for packaging, but
for many other things. At the moment when you see
it as well, even if we are not conscious in
quite a lot of areas, like in pharma, in food,
I don't know graes, but like if you had the
brass your teacher this morning, you had been using seaweed
or creams have seaweed, yogur, have seaweed, beer, half seaweed
(09:13):
in the home. So almost all the processed food have
seawed in one form or another. So we're not conscious.
But we had been using seweed for many different things,
initially for making glass. In the UK, it was used
to make gunpowder. It was one of the second weapons
of the Allies in the First and Second World War.
Seeweed production in California to get gunpowder and get iod
(09:34):
in as well. That it was used to to kill
and to cure at the same time, see it and
nowadays it's used as I mentioned, in the textile industry,
in the farmer industry.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
But we want to get is a seaweed grade for packaging.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
It's a bit like our ambition and it's what we
have been working and trying to bring sewed into into
other uses. We use seaweed, or we started to use
seweed as well from ilga blooms. I don't know if
you have heard about this phenomenon, but as well, one
of the cost concess of using fertilizer inland is that
some of these leak into most of them lead to
(10:06):
the rivers and then to the sea, and then they
generate these kind of like really big seaweed blooms that
it happens for example in the Caribbean with sargassum, and
then that creates a big, big problem. So seaweed could
be something really really sophisticated because it can be used
for growing DNA for example, or it could be something
in this case, for example, of the sargassum that you
(10:27):
get paid to collect. So it's all the all the spectrum.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Wow, it's like a super super plan.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
It's a super plan. And then that depends how you
use it. You can get different properties from all the
different serwis, but even from the same plant of the seaweed,
you extract things from the from the roots or from
the steam, or from the leaf, you get different flexibilities.
And for us, the main application that we give to
seaweed is that we don't need to modify the polymeer
structure the seaweed offers in order to create certain films,
(10:56):
certain members that we can use for packaging. What that
means is that nature knows really well as well those polymers.
So the same way that you can eat it, nature
can process it really really easy. Because it is one
of the problems I have been there for the longer
periods of time.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
It's amazing. It's so versatile and used in so many
different areas, obviously packaging, pharma. And I was going to
ask you, obviously there's more pressure on companies to manage
their impacts on nature, and I was going to say,
what role do you see seaweed cultivation playing in restoring
ecosystems contributing to carbon catcher But actually did answer that
to an extent in terms of even you're not only
(11:34):
on one side of the coin, minimizing plastic waste with
what you're producing. But when you're saying you're leveraging things
like algal blooms and things like that, you're solving so
many problems through the use of seaweed in the packaging.
But are you able to kind of expand on that
a little bit more? Is it a particularly good at
carbon catture as well?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Yeah, so seaweed when it grows one fare of the
biomass gets sync into the ocean. So they had the
moment quite a lot of priyets of them funded for
example by basis of growing seaweed to sink it in
order to capture carbon. We believe that like you don't
need to just grow sewed to sink it, but like
by just growing seaweed, as I mentioned, like one fair
of the biomass that grows gets into the ocean anyway,
(12:14):
into the bottom of the ocean, and it's one of
the most effective way of capturing carbon. There is another
element as well to capture carbon in the ocean that
like we are working now with Plymouth University on a
project called pred plastics in that basically we are trying
to as well quantify because at the moment around like
one fair of the carbon emissions get captured in the ocean,
(12:37):
and most of that is thanks to microplacton as well.
And the way of capturing that microplacton has to capture
carbon is basically by defecating, so it goes into the bottom.
But because of microplastics, it had been observed that some
of that who is going up instead of down, so
that carbon gets released again. And it's one of the
(12:58):
effacts of plastic that no one accounts for, and it
could be quite could have quite big implications not only
for carbon, but as well for human health or ecosystems, etc.
So we're trying to kind of like push more research
into these areas in order to have the real impact
of plastic. Because at the moment plastic is certain for example,
(13:21):
life cycle analysis, et cetera, it comes quite well in
terms of carbon, it's because you don't account too.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Much what happens after the plastic is consumed. So we're
trying to compare like like we like on that front.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, it's so interesting because I think actually in nature,
we have all these systems in place that's meant to
be regulating our carbon, but we're doing things that are
actually reversing some of these feedback looks that we have,
and that's highly problematic. So it's interesting just having these
solutions that are working with nature rather than against nature
in many ways. Shifting slightly, we've actually seen a lot
(13:59):
of some regreatory updates, such as the new epackaging and
packging waste regulations, and for some larger packaged food companies
this could be creating some headwinds for them. What is
the opportunities at here for not planned to be able
to enable clients to meet these incoming regulations.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah, so I think this had been really good for us.
We have been actually making even a group or a
consortion of companies. We call it the natural Polymer group
because this regulation as well had been able to define
really well what is and what is not a plastic.
And there is two criterias. In order not to be
a plastic, you need to be a polymer that is
aboundant in nature, and you don't need to as the
(14:39):
first criteria. A second criteria, you don't need to chemically
modify it. Because you can start with something that is
for example corn, but then or potato, but then you
chemically modify it and you come up with a plastic
and then nature don't know how to deal with.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
That chemical modification.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So that have been really good because in the in
the market there is quite a lot of confusion right
from consumers and even brands.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
They don't know what.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Everything has a leaf or everything has a kind of
like a symbol of sustainability, but it's really hard to differentiate.
And thanks to these regulations, for example, in some markets
they started to tax really clear all of the produce
that they are considered plastics because under that criteria, and
we have been validated, for example by the government in
the Netherlands as one of the only materials that is
(15:23):
not a plastic. And it had been really good because
in some countries, as I mentioned, they start to introduce,
for example, modulated fees where they charge you in the
same way that they charge you in a supermarket if
you want to get a plastic back. So for every
item that contains plastic, they can charge you up to
thirty cents for example, which is something that is quite significant.
So it's a good way to put some headwinds across
(15:45):
some of these natural solutions that otherwise it's quite hard
to compete against quite a lot of the big lobby
and establish kind of like solutions that plastic represents.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, it's really interesting to see how this growing regretory,
including those modulated fees that are set to come in
twenty twenty six to twenty seven, to shift to more
environmentally sustainable packaging design where they're using recyclability as the indicator,
I believe, and of course the extended use of responsibility
(16:16):
for packaging scheme, which is putting fees on plastic packaging
I think up to about four hundred and twenty three
pounds per ton as of twenty twenty five to twenty six.
So this is very material to companies. And I'm curious
beyond regulatory push, how much you seeing a pull from
consumer demand, because we have seen a growing awareness around
(16:37):
the negative impacts of consuming too much plastic exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I think it's both working together, right, and we have
seen some really good examples or Casey studies for example
on the reduce of the plastic back in the supermarket.
Is a bit of a combination of regulators, consumers, supermarkets
working together. And yeah, nowadays if you go to a supermarket,
it's really i will say, like reduce much more the
consumption of like the plastic bag. What is a bit
(17:03):
kind of funny on that example is that like all
the shopping is still rubbing plastic. So even if you
save the last plastic bag, everything else is. But like
the case study is there that like by even if
it's put in a small kind of tax or visualization
of the problem that there is there like everyone is
able to make their actually change that behavior or that
(17:26):
that plastic that otherwise is going to be really hard
to do anything with it. There is different solutions for
the plastic problem. We don't believe that like you're going
to solve everything with no cloud or natural materials. The
first thing that we need to do is to reduce
the amount of packaging.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
So that's the step number one.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
The step nambage is to reduce as much as we
can so we know the certain context, like if you
are at home or if you are in a restaurant,
it's better to use things that you are going to
like metal cutlery and plates and glass. That in the
society that we live where convenience is one of the
items and consumption and they go is a reality if
that two things cannot happen. We believe it is where
(18:05):
we have to say recycling is another of the solutions
that had been there for a while have not been
proving too successful. The race of recycling had not been
going up, even if it's a solution that we know
from decades and nowadays it's less than ten percent of
the plastic gets recycle, and when they get recycled, they
don't get recycled in the same value products. They get
down cycle into things that have less value. And it's
(18:26):
one of the things that like the plastic industry or
the plastic producers, they always say it's the solution, but
it's quite hard to believe because it's always going to
require more plastic input into the system. And yeah, certain items,
I think it's good to have that end of life
and to have that way of circularity, but for other
(18:46):
items it's really really hard. Small sashes for sauces or
chocolate or flexible films that they have like multiple materials
embedded into it and doesn't have too much value and
they are dirty. It's almost an utopia to be to
recycle those.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, it's so interesting actually, just I feel like just
the other week I was noticing how quickly I fill
up my recycling bin, and it's all obviously food packaging
predominantly food packaging ways from the supermarket, and it's true
as even if we take away that shopping bag, everything's
covered in plastic. And then, of course, as you mentioned,
the actual rate of recycling is quite low, and I
think someone was telling me recently about the concept of
(19:22):
kind of wish cycling, so people putting things in their
recyclement that they hope gets recycle, but actually very little
of it actually does. And I think you alluded to
this earlier. It's not just the environmental impacts of plastic,
but there's a lot more kind of awareness around microplastics,
chemicals and packaging that can actually be harmful to human health.
(19:43):
And we are seeing things like upcoming restrictions on food
contact packaging containing pfas, such as the E wide band
on the Forever chemical impacting I think from twenty twenty six.
And I think it's interesting you were saying that in
takeaway foods there's often that layer of plastic. I can
know is that most people probably not aware of. I
actually was not aware of that layer. How is not
(20:05):
a place in aiding clients to meet these regulations as well?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, well, it's good that you that you mentioned. Yes,
for the people who are not aware, the face is this.
This is called forever chemicals. So it's really similar to
teflon and it's one of the things that accumulates in
the environment but as well in our bodies, so it
could be quite toxic for us. And some of the
consequences of accumulation of these forever chemicals are really unknown
(20:30):
because they are relatively recent, but we know have been
There's a really good movie called Dark Waters with Marc
rouf Falo that I really recommend for everyone to watch.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
This will be my weekend watching.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, around this problem of forever chemicals. And it's crazy
that it's something that is in our pants but it's
in our.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Foot packaging as well, and the.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Consequences for health it could be it could be quite
quite big. It's interesting as well because we have seen
in the last couple of years with a change as well,
for example in the US, of political changes regarding how
the word sustainability really polarize there. But like the health
aspect is something really appealing for both sides. And if
(21:11):
you may, microplastics or acrolytes or pfas or for our
chemicals is something that everyone aligns that we should be
able to control and we should be able to know
what it goes into our foods and what goes into
our bodies. So I think it's definitely something to look
out for us because we use things that they are
completely safe even to it not only to be food contact.
(21:35):
We do believe that like non toxic and natural materials,
natural polymers and maatural pacnion, it should be one of
the ways to go. So yeah, definitely align with that
part of legislation from regulators and consumers that will help
to make a bit safer the way that we consume.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I think it's really interesting what you said that
around like in the US, where obviously we've had a
bit of polorization around the state ability to actually pople
can get on board with health impacts microplastics, and I
think from a broader consumer perspective, often there's toots that
there's more demand from consumers for like sustainable products, which
I think there is, but we're kind of self interested
and sometimes it's still placing your money where you feel
(22:19):
like getting the highest return and actually aligning at with
health impacts. People kind of bring it back to themselves
rather than maybe think about a broad impact on the environment,
so it's usually might shift patterns even further, I think
pivoting slightly. I think last year you raised your Series
A plus round at twenty three million euros, a doubling
(22:40):
of your initial target, and with part of this being
used to scale up your operations in the US. And
I'm curious, what are the main differences that you're seeing
between growing operations in the US and versus growing them
in Europe.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
So at the moment, yes, we are mostly person in
the UK and bet you and in the US is
quite complex, is quite big as well as the price
and as we were mentioned before as well, the economic
or the political climate is quite different from where we
were when we did that fund raising as well. So
(23:16):
we are starting to initially to ship some products from
the UK and some materials to make the product in
the US, And for example, we have the Losles Clippers
and NBA Stadium in it using US and a few
mir stadiums that they're starting to kind of like get
interested with our packaging. So I think that's the stage one.
(23:36):
I think Bloomber as well in some of the offices
in the US kind of like trial or packaging.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
That's that I'll be testing it on over there next exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
That's one of the first steps to start to create
a bit of demand, right, and then we are at
the moment in conversations with different type of converters and
partners to.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Start to produce as well the.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Model that we wanted to do with dog Plug, especially
with the food takeaway packaging that doesn't make sense to
ship obviously makes sense to produce quite locally. So that's
a bit what we are trying to do in Europe.
We have managed, we have a few convertors previously locally
and in the US. I think it's something that is
going to happen over the next couple of months. So
(24:16):
it's something quite exciting. And yeah, quite a lot of
difference between the US market and the European market in
terms of maybe to start with the portions, so as
you can imagine, like the size of the boxes in
the US are quite different, the type of as well
of packaging that they use in the US, it's interesting,
but like they use recycling more, which is really good
in the sustainability point of view, but in Europe is
(24:39):
not allowed to use recycle board for food contact challenges,
so it's slightly different all of the legislation and different
type of supply chains and how people work. For example,
in the US as well, stadiums normally they have censorship
deals with packaging companies. So there is even as Stidium
what's called Footprint that is one of the companies of packaging,
(25:00):
so it's quite powerful. When in the UK we normally
try to sell our packing interstitiums to pay them to have.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Our not the other way.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Right, business, different ways of working.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, it's a different business model, but it's interesting to
see the different kind of regional nuances and different pathways
to growth. And I feel like it's a very exciting
time of growth and just seeing all that I love,
like flicking on my news feed and seeing yet a
different event. I think I mentioned in the intro the
Coldplayer concerts at Wimbledon. Every time I look out for
packaging for my strawberries. So it's amazing to see what
(25:37):
Kno Player is doing and all the kind of evolution
in the products. And perhaps maybe a forward looking question.
You have the pledge to replace one billion units of
plastic by twenty thirty, What in your view is needed
to develop sees packaging at the scale to kind of
displace all the semi use plastic in our lives that
(25:58):
we probably consume, so we don't even register how much
we're consuming it every day.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, well, first we don't have, as I mentioned, the
ambition that like see, we can't replace all the plastic
applications and we do. What is that plastic is really
good in certain as a material. It's really cheap, it's
really light, has amazing barrier properties. But the main superpower
that it has that is really long lasting is the
main weakness as well, especially for those applications where the
(26:25):
shelf life of the application is really short, because it's
a big mismatch. You are using a skin that is
going to last for centuries and a content that is
going to last for hours. So it's where we see
an opportunity inside of that. We are focusing at the
moment mostly on things on the goal or food service,
and we believe that we have a room to say
(26:47):
on the world of packaging. The scale is one of
the main things that like give you as well competitiveness
in the surprice and volumes, and it's quite hard to
do things in the small numbers. So it's good we're
getting We're getting there, especially with the boxes and take
away food. For now, as I mentioned, we are now
in over fifty stadiums and nine countries and doing things
(27:08):
in the millions, which is really good. We hope to
keep growing in terms of volumes and that could affect
as well, like reducing our prices more and more. So
last year as well, we did quite a big price
reduction of thirty percent. While everyone was going higher, we
were going lower because we had more volumes that could
help us to kind of like lower the cost that
we in order to gain adoption. We try to pass
(27:30):
that wins over our clients. The second thing is in performance,
so trying to make being able to do more things
with our materials. At the moment, for example, we have
the new Holy Grail for us to see if we
can make coffee cups.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
We're able to do that, it will be really good,
so that's good.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And the last thing that we are working on is
seem to expand on the range of applications that we
can kind of like cover. So this last year we
launched windows so you could see through our films. We
are testing the cutlery mentioned and we have ambisions to
start to be able to make more things. So that's
quite exciting on that front, because, yeah, sometimes it's even
(28:06):
the challenge with these material you can make so many
different things to focusing one thing or to know what
is the thing that is going to have more impact
as next step is one of the things the material
as well, as I mentioned, it's not able to do
everything that we will love to at the step by
a step. Hopefully we can at least start with those
applications that there are short term consumption and the natural
(28:28):
materia will be a fit.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, it's it's absolutely amazing, and I think where we're
talking about an investor standpoint and financial materiality, if you're
able to offer not plug customers a thirty percent discount
on the not plus packaging as you begin to scale,
while others are experiencing price rises on packaging and faced
with regulatory headwinds, it feels like there is a clear
(28:53):
choice that they might want to go with as they
move forward. And I think it's amazing to hear all
the different ways you're evolving the product as well. I
would love to have a coffee cup. I feel like
coffee cups are my particularly bad habit where I will
use single use coffee cups, so it would be fantastic
if that was one made out of not plumb materials.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
We are going there, like you said, like thirty percent
on what they are paying, just to make sure that
we did the reduction of our pricing. That doesn't that
we are thirty percent cheaper than plastic. That's really hard.
Not too many people know this, but like tariffs at
the moment of plastics. We were in Geneva learning about
this with the World Trade Organization. But like if you
import plastics because they are petrochemicals and normally countries.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
They don't have petroleum, so the taxes.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Are really low, while if you import natural fibers doesn't
need to be seen with but bamboo for example, or
other things, normally the taxes and the tariffs are double
what you will pay for plastic. Really it's a bit
of a nonsense. We're trying to kind of like see
how we can change that, but it's not easy. But
this is one of the m first advantage of plastics.
So one of the ways that we subsidize petro chemicals
(30:00):
in this.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
World that we live.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
So we've seen some positive regretory movements, but there's definitely
still some hurdles to overcome. By the sounds of things,
it has been so fascinating to hear the journey of
Knoppler and what you're doing with the company, and just
to hear how nature is inspiring design that's solving some
of the largest challenges that we're definitely facing around waste
and single use plastic, and just amazing to hear how
(30:25):
I feel like it's multifaested in the way that's solving
this problem by using natural materials through from how it's
grown to end of life. So thank you so much
for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Thank you, Grace Pleasure.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
You can find more information by going to BI ESG
go on the Bloomberg terminal. If you have an ESG
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send us an email at ESG Currents at bloomberg dot net.
Thank you,
ESG is constantly evolving. Over the years, it is shifted
from socially responsible investing to impact to sustainable finance. While
the terminology continues to change, what hasn't changed are the
underlying science market pressures, tangible physical and financial impacts of
the climate crisis, as well as increasing regulatory scrutiny and
(00:22):
rising consumer expectations. We aim to filter out the noise
by speaking with industry experts to identify what is really
driving value. Welcome to ESG Currents, brought to you by
Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Welcome to today's episode. I'm Grace Osborne, your host, and
a mere ESG integration analyst. Today we are joined by
Rodrigo Garcier Gonzalez, co founder of Knoppler, a company leading
the charge against one of the biggest environmental challenges of
our time, single use plastic. Every year, more than three
(00:59):
hundred million tons of plastic are produced, generating massive waste,
polluting ecosystems and increasing regulatory risk for businesses around the world.
Knopler is tackling this crisis head on. Whether it's innovative
regenerative packaging materials made from seaweed and plants. The company's
impact is already being felt, partnering with major food delivery
(01:20):
services like just Eat and featured events ranging from Coldplay
concerts to Wimbledon. Their groundbreaking work has earned global recognition,
including the prestigious Earthshop price and a bold commitment to
replace one billion units of plastic by twenty thirty. Rodrigo's
journey is a powerful example of how design, science and
entrepreneurship can come together to reshape industries and build a
(01:44):
more sustainable future. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
Thank you so much for joining us, Fredrigo, And perhaps
could you just start by sharing Knoppler's origin story. What
inspired you to start the company and how did an
idea that I believe started from edible water bubbles evolve
into a full company.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, thank you for having me. So yes, my background
it's not too related with what we're doing now. But
I was an architect, but I was always fascinated with waste,
especially plastic waste. So I was initially building structures with
plastic bottles. So I did that for a few years,
and then I realized that, like even if I managed
(02:24):
to reuse and connect thousands of bottles, that was not
moving the needle enough. I came back to Academia and
I met Pierre Pasalia, who is the co founder, who
was a packaging engineer in Loreale, and we started to
ask the question of how nature package things, and we
found in nature and inspiration of how fruits, for example,
(02:45):
are done right. That is an amazing piece of packaging
because it's not only that it's edible, but it's regenerative
to the way that you can throw away what is
left and a new tree will grow with more fruits. Manly,
if you could do that with a plastic bottle, through
a plastic bottle and a new plastic bottle tree will grow,
that's the ultimate product design, experience or system. We have
(03:07):
not been able to do that yet, but what we
were able to do as a first product was this
product that we call it Oh. We call it in
that way because it was the sound that people normally
do when they see this product, they do.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Like whoa oh.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Basically, it's like looks like a little water bubble. We
make it zip size. You can drink the content and
if you want, you can eat the packaging around. The
packaging is made out of seaweed and it's a main
mem because nature use members to contain any type of
liquid is the most efficient way of using this. And yeah,
initially we did it not with the mission of making
a company. It was a project inside of the university.
(03:44):
But slowly and slowly it started to get some traction
and we were able to get a bit of funding
initially from the European Union to push this project with
some post dogs in Impederal College. And then we got
some funding through crowdfunding to build machinery to be able
to make this at larger scale, and then we were
able to scale it up to do things like the
London Marathon where we replace in one of the stations
(04:04):
or plastic bottles for this product. But we have done
many other different things and now we are working with
other big companies to do replacements for things like energy gels,
the success or the packaging outside of the energy gels.
But we have done things like sauces, alcohol shots, et cetera.
We have not done need done this product. On this journey,
(04:24):
we started to work quite a lot as well with
takeaway packaging. As you mentioned. In that case, what we
replace is the liner or the coating inside of the
takeaway packaging. So normally I don't know if people are
conscious of, but like when you buy something to take away,
normally it looks like cardboard outside, but internally it has plastic.
And that plastic is there in order to protect the
(04:47):
paper from the grease and the water of the food
or the liquid that you have inside, which is a
functional parameter that you need to on the packaging. But
at the same time that plastic it makes the paper
not recyclable, neither of the plastic, and it makes quite
a lot of kind of like challenges.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
In many different ways.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So we started to work initially with that company called
just takeaway dot Com that throw us a bit this
challenge of how you can you see weed to solve
this problem, and we started to work on solving it.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
And now that's one of the products that this.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Had bigger scale because now we have done over thirty
million units of plastic replace and we are in quite
a lot of places where plastic is used, from stadiums
to canteens, to theme parks to yeah, places where there's
consumption on the goal. And then we have been keep
pushing the limits of what we can do with seaweed
(05:40):
with this material, and recently we have been pushing to do.
Let's see the form that plastic gets transform and modify
in order to make products like flexible films or cutlery.
And now we started to make cutulary out of seaweed
and some flexible films out of seaweed with the idea
that they are natural and they could be postable or
(06:01):
in some cases are soluble or even edible. So for example,
we have now some of the film supermarkets in the
Netherland where people eat salad, so they wrap the salad
in this film and they can eat the salad.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
You need the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
It's not the purpose that all the packaging needs to
be edible. For example, the windows that we do in
our carbo packaging is the same material so or originally
you could eat.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
That is not the purpose.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
The fact that this edible is the absolute proof for
us that is not plastic. That's where the name comes
as well of the company of not Plasts for not.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I love that. I feel like people now getting your
bonus to the takeaway meal because they can eat their packaging.
It's amazing to hear actually how the product has evolved
and all those different use cases and those things that
we are interacting with every day. I think, even if
I'm going to go and buy my lunch in the
middle of the day and you have that packaging, and see,
the volume of waste is just huge. So it's really
(06:53):
fantastic to hear how you're kind of evolving and solving
for this massive problem. And I love that you're taking
that and from nature and hearing that story. I think, actually,
when we look at some of the big innovations in
the whole of history, they've taken a lot of inspiration
from nature, and this is like such an important way
of doing that to solve this problem. And of course
seaweed has been at the heart of the kind of
(07:15):
material innovation, and you have touched on this to an extent.
But I'm just curious, why did you initially go for
seaweed and what makes it such a game change compared
to like other biodegradable or compostible packaging.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
That's a really good question. So seaweed is the first
organism on Earth. You could almost argue that we are
all are made out of seaweed.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Real seaweed, Yeah, exactly, And.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
These have wonderful material. It's like saying plants, but plants
of the sea can go in every coastline. There is
normally three big families like red seaweeds, brown seweds, and
green seaweeds, but there is much more difference between the
DNA of our red seaweed and brown sewed that my
DNA and a massroom, so it's a lot of.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Variations inside of each of the species.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
The advantage of seaweed against any other kind of crops,
for example inland, is that you don't need fresh water
because they grow on the sea. You don't need any fertilizers,
you don't need to match human intervention, and it grows
really fast, so some of the seweds can grow up
to even a meteor or two per day. Wow, it
is the faster or simon on Earth as well on
that front, so that means that you can have as well,
(08:21):
several crops per year, so it's almost like capping grass
more than kind of like waiting for a crop that
will take a year or a tree that.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Will take forty years or more to grow.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Advantage as well of seaweed or planting seaweed is that
you can decidify the ocean, You can create new habitats
as every type of as well human intervention if you
are farming seaweed, you need to do it consciously and
not making the same mistakes that we have done in land,
so avoiding things like invasive species or monocultures. But we
do believe that if you do it in a conscious
(08:52):
way and sustainable way, it could be one of the
main resources that we have, not only for packaging, but
for many other things. At the moment when you see
it as well, even if we are not conscious in
quite a lot of areas, like in pharma, in food,
I don't know graes, but like if you had the
brass your teacher this morning, you had been using seaweed
or creams have seaweed, yogur, have seaweed, beer, half seaweed
(09:13):
in the home. So almost all the processed food have
seawed in one form or another. So we're not conscious.
But we had been using seweed for many different things,
initially for making glass. In the UK, it was used
to make gunpowder. It was one of the second weapons
of the Allies in the First and Second World War.
Seeweed production in California to get gunpowder and get iod
(09:34):
in as well. That it was used to to kill
and to cure at the same time, see it and
nowadays it's used as I mentioned, in the textile industry,
in the farmer industry.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
But we want to get is a seaweed grade for packaging.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
It's a bit like our ambition and it's what we
have been working and trying to bring sewed into into
other uses. We use seaweed, or we started to use
seweed as well from ilga blooms. I don't know if
you have heard about this phenomenon, but as well, one
of the cost concess of using fertilizer inland is that
some of these leak into most of them lead to
(10:06):
the rivers and then to the sea, and then they
generate these kind of like really big seaweed blooms that
it happens for example in the Caribbean with sargassum, and
then that creates a big, big problem. So seaweed could
be something really really sophisticated because it can be used
for growing DNA for example, or it could be something
in this case, for example, of the sargassum that you
(10:27):
get paid to collect. So it's all the all the spectrum.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Wow, it's like a super super plan.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
It's a super plan. And then that depends how you
use it. You can get different properties from all the
different serwis, but even from the same plant of the seaweed,
you extract things from the from the roots or from
the steam, or from the leaf, you get different flexibilities.
And for us, the main application that we give to
seaweed is that we don't need to modify the polymeer
structure the seaweed offers in order to create certain films,
(10:56):
certain members that we can use for packaging. What that
means is that nature knows really well as well those polymers.
So the same way that you can eat it, nature
can process it really really easy. Because it is one
of the problems I have been there for the longer
periods of time.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
It's amazing. It's so versatile and used in so many
different areas, obviously packaging, pharma. And I was going to
ask you, obviously there's more pressure on companies to manage
their impacts on nature, and I was going to say,
what role do you see seaweed cultivation playing in restoring
ecosystems contributing to carbon catcher But actually did answer that
to an extent in terms of even you're not only
(11:34):
on one side of the coin, minimizing plastic waste with
what you're producing. But when you're saying you're leveraging things
like algal blooms and things like that, you're solving so
many problems through the use of seaweed in the packaging.
But are you able to kind of expand on that
a little bit more? Is it a particularly good at
carbon catture as well?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Yeah, so seaweed when it grows one fare of the
biomass gets sync into the ocean. So they had the
moment quite a lot of priyets of them funded for
example by basis of growing seaweed to sink it in
order to capture carbon. We believe that like you don't
need to just grow sewed to sink it, but like
by just growing seaweed, as I mentioned, like one fair
of the biomass that grows gets into the ocean anyway,
(12:14):
into the bottom of the ocean, and it's one of
the most effective way of capturing carbon. There is another
element as well to capture carbon in the ocean that
like we are working now with Plymouth University on a
project called pred plastics in that basically we are trying
to as well quantify because at the moment around like
one fair of the carbon emissions get captured in the ocean,
(12:37):
and most of that is thanks to microplacton as well.
And the way of capturing that microplacton has to capture
carbon is basically by defecating, so it goes into the bottom.
But because of microplastics, it had been observed that some
of that who is going up instead of down, so
that carbon gets released again. And it's one of the
(12:58):
effacts of plastic that no one accounts for, and it
could be quite could have quite big implications not only
for carbon, but as well for human health or ecosystems, etc.
So we're trying to kind of like push more research
into these areas in order to have the real impact
of plastic. Because at the moment plastic is certain for example,
(13:21):
life cycle analysis, et cetera, it comes quite well in
terms of carbon, it's because you don't account too.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Much what happens after the plastic is consumed. So we're
trying to compare like like we like on that front.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, it's so interesting because I think actually in nature,
we have all these systems in place that's meant to
be regulating our carbon, but we're doing things that are
actually reversing some of these feedback looks that we have,
and that's highly problematic. So it's interesting just having these
solutions that are working with nature rather than against nature
in many ways. Shifting slightly, we've actually seen a lot
(13:59):
of some regreatory updates, such as the new epackaging and
packging waste regulations, and for some larger packaged food companies
this could be creating some headwinds for them. What is
the opportunities at here for not planned to be able
to enable clients to meet these incoming regulations.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah, so I think this had been really good for us.
We have been actually making even a group or a
consortion of companies. We call it the natural Polymer group
because this regulation as well had been able to define
really well what is and what is not a plastic.
And there is two criterias. In order not to be
a plastic, you need to be a polymer that is
aboundant in nature, and you don't need to as the
(14:39):
first criteria. A second criteria, you don't need to chemically
modify it. Because you can start with something that is
for example corn, but then or potato, but then you
chemically modify it and you come up with a plastic
and then nature don't know how to deal with.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
That chemical modification.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
So that have been really good because in the in
the market there is quite a lot of confusion right
from consumers and even brands.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
They don't know what.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Everything has a leaf or everything has a kind of
like a symbol of sustainability, but it's really hard to differentiate.
And thanks to these regulations, for example, in some markets
they started to tax really clear all of the produce
that they are considered plastics because under that criteria, and
we have been validated, for example by the government in
the Netherlands as one of the only materials that is
(15:23):
not a plastic. And it had been really good because
in some countries, as I mentioned, they start to introduce,
for example, modulated fees where they charge you in the
same way that they charge you in a supermarket if
you want to get a plastic back. So for every
item that contains plastic, they can charge you up to
thirty cents for example, which is something that is quite significant.
So it's a good way to put some headwinds across
(15:45):
some of these natural solutions that otherwise it's quite hard
to compete against quite a lot of the big lobby
and establish kind of like solutions that plastic represents.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, it's really interesting to see how this growing regretory,
including those modulated fees that are set to come in
twenty twenty six to twenty seven, to shift to more
environmentally sustainable packaging design where they're using recyclability as the indicator,
I believe, and of course the extended use of responsibility
(16:16):
for packaging scheme, which is putting fees on plastic packaging
I think up to about four hundred and twenty three
pounds per ton as of twenty twenty five to twenty six.
So this is very material to companies. And I'm curious
beyond regulatory push, how much you seeing a pull from
consumer demand, because we have seen a growing awareness around
(16:37):
the negative impacts of consuming too much plastic exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I think it's both working together, right, and we have
seen some really good examples or Casey studies for example
on the reduce of the plastic back in the supermarket.
Is a bit of a combination of regulators, consumers, supermarkets
working together. And yeah, nowadays if you go to a supermarket,
it's really i will say, like reduce much more the
consumption of like the plastic bag. What is a bit
(17:03):
kind of funny on that example is that like all
the shopping is still rubbing plastic. So even if you
save the last plastic bag, everything else is. But like
the case study is there that like by even if
it's put in a small kind of tax or visualization
of the problem that there is there like everyone is
able to make their actually change that behavior or that
(17:26):
that plastic that otherwise is going to be really hard
to do anything with it. There is different solutions for
the plastic problem. We don't believe that like you're going
to solve everything with no cloud or natural materials. The
first thing that we need to do is to reduce
the amount of packaging.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
So that's the step number one.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
The step nambage is to reduce as much as we
can so we know the certain context, like if you
are at home or if you are in a restaurant,
it's better to use things that you are going to
like metal cutlery and plates and glass. That in the
society that we live where convenience is one of the
items and consumption and they go is a reality if
that two things cannot happen. We believe it is where
(18:05):
we have to say recycling is another of the solutions
that had been there for a while have not been
proving too successful. The race of recycling had not been
going up, even if it's a solution that we know
from decades and nowadays it's less than ten percent of
the plastic gets recycle, and when they get recycled, they
don't get recycled in the same value products. They get
down cycle into things that have less value. And it's
(18:26):
one of the things that like the plastic industry or
the plastic producers, they always say it's the solution, but
it's quite hard to believe because it's always going to
require more plastic input into the system. And yeah, certain items,
I think it's good to have that end of life
and to have that way of circularity, but for other
(18:46):
items it's really really hard. Small sashes for sauces or
chocolate or flexible films that they have like multiple materials
embedded into it and doesn't have too much value and
they are dirty. It's almost an utopia to be to
recycle those.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, it's so interesting actually, just I feel like just
the other week I was noticing how quickly I fill
up my recycling bin, and it's all obviously food packaging
predominantly food packaging ways from the supermarket, and it's true
as even if we take away that shopping bag, everything's
covered in plastic. And then, of course, as you mentioned,
the actual rate of recycling is quite low, and I
think someone was telling me recently about the concept of
(19:22):
kind of wish cycling, so people putting things in their
recyclement that they hope gets recycle, but actually very little
of it actually does. And I think you alluded to
this earlier. It's not just the environmental impacts of plastic,
but there's a lot more kind of awareness around microplastics,
chemicals and packaging that can actually be harmful to human health.
(19:43):
And we are seeing things like upcoming restrictions on food
contact packaging containing pfas, such as the E wide band
on the Forever chemical impacting I think from twenty twenty six.
And I think it's interesting you were saying that in
takeaway foods there's often that layer of plastic. I can
know is that most people probably not aware of. I
actually was not aware of that layer. How is not
(20:05):
a place in aiding clients to meet these regulations as well?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, well, it's good that you that you mentioned. Yes,
for the people who are not aware, the face is this.
This is called forever chemicals. So it's really similar to
teflon and it's one of the things that accumulates in
the environment but as well in our bodies, so it
could be quite toxic for us. And some of the
consequences of accumulation of these forever chemicals are really unknown
(20:30):
because they are relatively recent, but we know have been
There's a really good movie called Dark Waters with Marc
rouf Falo that I really recommend for everyone to watch.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
This will be my weekend watching.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Yeah, around this problem of forever chemicals. And it's crazy
that it's something that is in our pants but it's
in our.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Foot packaging as well, and the.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Consequences for health it could be it could be quite
quite big. It's interesting as well because we have seen
in the last couple of years with a change as well,
for example in the US, of political changes regarding how
the word sustainability really polarize there. But like the health
aspect is something really appealing for both sides. And if
(21:11):
you may, microplastics or acrolytes or pfas or for our
chemicals is something that everyone aligns that we should be
able to control and we should be able to know
what it goes into our foods and what goes into
our bodies. So I think it's definitely something to look
out for us because we use things that they are
completely safe even to it not only to be food contact.
(21:35):
We do believe that like non toxic and natural materials,
natural polymers and maatural pacnion, it should be one of
the ways to go. So yeah, definitely align with that
part of legislation from regulators and consumers that will help
to make a bit safer the way that we consume.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yeah, I think it's really interesting what you said that
around like in the US, where obviously we've had a
bit of polorization around the state ability to actually pople
can get on board with health impacts microplastics, and I
think from a broader consumer perspective, often there's toots that
there's more demand from consumers for like sustainable products, which
I think there is, but we're kind of self interested
and sometimes it's still placing your money where you feel
(22:19):
like getting the highest return and actually aligning at with
health impacts. People kind of bring it back to themselves
rather than maybe think about a broad impact on the environment,
so it's usually might shift patterns even further, I think
pivoting slightly. I think last year you raised your Series
A plus round at twenty three million euros, a doubling
(22:40):
of your initial target, and with part of this being
used to scale up your operations in the US. And
I'm curious, what are the main differences that you're seeing
between growing operations in the US and versus growing them
in Europe.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
So at the moment, yes, we are mostly person in
the UK and bet you and in the US is
quite complex, is quite big as well as the price
and as we were mentioned before as well, the economic
or the political climate is quite different from where we
were when we did that fund raising as well. So
(23:16):
we are starting to initially to ship some products from
the UK and some materials to make the product in
the US, And for example, we have the Losles Clippers
and NBA Stadium in it using US and a few
mir stadiums that they're starting to kind of like get
interested with our packaging. So I think that's the stage one.
(23:36):
I think Bloomber as well in some of the offices
in the US kind of like trial or packaging.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
That's that I'll be testing it on over there next exactly.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
That's one of the first steps to start to create
a bit of demand, right, and then we are at
the moment in conversations with different type of converters and
partners to.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Start to produce as well the.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Model that we wanted to do with dog Plug, especially
with the food takeaway packaging that doesn't make sense to
ship obviously makes sense to produce quite locally. So that's
a bit what we are trying to do in Europe.
We have managed, we have a few convertors previously locally
and in the US. I think it's something that is
going to happen over the next couple of months. So
(24:16):
it's something quite exciting. And yeah, quite a lot of
difference between the US market and the European market in
terms of maybe to start with the portions, so as
you can imagine, like the size of the boxes in
the US are quite different, the type of as well
of packaging that they use in the US, it's interesting,
but like they use recycling more, which is really good
in the sustainability point of view, but in Europe is
(24:39):
not allowed to use recycle board for food contact challenges,
so it's slightly different all of the legislation and different
type of supply chains and how people work. For example,
in the US as well, stadiums normally they have censorship
deals with packaging companies. So there is even as Stidium
what's called Footprint that is one of the companies of packaging,
(25:00):
so it's quite powerful. When in the UK we normally
try to sell our packing interstitiums to pay them to have.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Our not the other way.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Right, business, different ways of working.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, it's a different business model, but it's interesting to
see the different kind of regional nuances and different pathways
to growth. And I feel like it's a very exciting
time of growth and just seeing all that I love,
like flicking on my news feed and seeing yet a
different event. I think I mentioned in the intro the
Coldplayer concerts at Wimbledon. Every time I look out for
packaging for my strawberries. So it's amazing to see what
(25:37):
Kno Player is doing and all the kind of evolution
in the products. And perhaps maybe a forward looking question.
You have the pledge to replace one billion units of
plastic by twenty thirty, What in your view is needed
to develop sees packaging at the scale to kind of
displace all the semi use plastic in our lives that
(25:58):
we probably consume, so we don't even register how much
we're consuming it every day.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, well, first we don't have, as I mentioned, the
ambition that like see, we can't replace all the plastic
applications and we do. What is that plastic is really
good in certain as a material. It's really cheap, it's
really light, has amazing barrier properties. But the main superpower
that it has that is really long lasting is the
main weakness as well, especially for those applications where the
(26:25):
shelf life of the application is really short, because it's
a big mismatch. You are using a skin that is
going to last for centuries and a content that is
going to last for hours. So it's where we see
an opportunity inside of that. We are focusing at the
moment mostly on things on the goal or food service,
and we believe that we have a room to say
(26:47):
on the world of packaging. The scale is one of
the main things that like give you as well competitiveness
in the surprice and volumes, and it's quite hard to
do things in the small numbers. So it's good we're
getting We're getting there, especially with the boxes and take
away food. For now, as I mentioned, we are now
in over fifty stadiums and nine countries and doing things
(27:08):
in the millions, which is really good. We hope to
keep growing in terms of volumes and that could affect
as well, like reducing our prices more and more. So
last year as well, we did quite a big price
reduction of thirty percent. While everyone was going higher, we
were going lower because we had more volumes that could
help us to kind of like lower the cost that
we in order to gain adoption. We try to pass
(27:30):
that wins over our clients. The second thing is in performance,
so trying to make being able to do more things
with our materials. At the moment, for example, we have
the new Holy Grail for us to see if we
can make coffee cups.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
We're able to do that, it will be really good,
so that's good.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And the last thing that we are working on is
seem to expand on the range of applications that we
can kind of like cover. So this last year we
launched windows so you could see through our films. We
are testing the cutlery mentioned and we have ambisions to
start to be able to make more things. So that's
quite exciting on that front, because, yeah, sometimes it's even
(28:06):
the challenge with these material you can make so many
different things to focusing one thing or to know what
is the thing that is going to have more impact
as next step is one of the things the material
as well, as I mentioned, it's not able to do
everything that we will love to at the step by
a step. Hopefully we can at least start with those
applications that there are short term consumption and the natural
(28:28):
materia will be a fit.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, it's it's absolutely amazing, and I think where we're
talking about an investor standpoint and financial materiality, if you're
able to offer not plug customers a thirty percent discount
on the not plus packaging as you begin to scale,
while others are experiencing price rises on packaging and faced
with regulatory headwinds, it feels like there is a clear
(28:53):
choice that they might want to go with as they
move forward. And I think it's amazing to hear all
the different ways you're evolving the product as well. I
would love to have a coffee cup. I feel like
coffee cups are my particularly bad habit where I will
use single use coffee cups, so it would be fantastic
if that was one made out of not plumb materials.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
We are going there, like you said, like thirty percent
on what they are paying, just to make sure that
we did the reduction of our pricing. That doesn't that
we are thirty percent cheaper than plastic. That's really hard.
Not too many people know this, but like tariffs at
the moment of plastics. We were in Geneva learning about
this with the World Trade Organization. But like if you
import plastics because they are petrochemicals and normally countries.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
They don't have petroleum, so the taxes.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Are really low, while if you import natural fibers doesn't
need to be seen with but bamboo for example, or
other things, normally the taxes and the tariffs are double
what you will pay for plastic. Really it's a bit
of a nonsense. We're trying to kind of like see
how we can change that, but it's not easy. But
this is one of the m first advantage of plastics.
So one of the ways that we subsidize petro chemicals
(30:00):
in this.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
World that we live.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
So we've seen some positive regretory movements, but there's definitely
still some hurdles to overcome. By the sounds of things,
it has been so fascinating to hear the journey of
Knoppler and what you're doing with the company, and just
to hear how nature is inspiring design that's solving some
of the largest challenges that we're definitely facing around waste
and single use plastic, and just amazing to hear how
(30:25):
I feel like it's multifaested in the way that's solving
this problem by using natural materials through from how it's
grown to end of life. So thank you so much
for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Thank you, Grace Pleasure.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
You can find more information by going to BI ESG
go on the Bloomberg terminal. If you have an ESG
quandary or burning questions you'd like to ask bi's expert analysts,
send us an email at ESG Currents at bloomberg dot net.
Thank you,
Host
Eric Kane
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