April 30, 2025 • 32 mins
As climate change accelerates water scarcity, investors are eyeing scalable solutions with environmental integrity. In this episode of ESG Currents, BI’s director of ESG research Eric Kane and senior ESG associate Melanie Rua speak with OceanWell CEO Robert Bergstrom about a subsea desalination product that uses deep-ocean pressure to cut energy use by up to 40% while protecting marine ecosystems. Bergstrom outlines OceanWell’s phased road map, including pilots and global scaling, and makes the investment case for water infrastructure, citing research showing a $7 return for every $1 invested. The episode explores why valuing water appropriately is key to driving innovation, policy and climate resilience. Recorded April 23.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
ESG has become established as a key business theme as
companies and investors seek to navigate the climate crisis, energy transition,
social mega trends, mounting regulatory attention and pressure from other stakeholders.
The rapidly evolving landscape has become inundated with acronyms, buzzwords,
(00:30):
and lingo, and we aim to break these down with
industry experts. Welcome to ESG Currents, your guide to navigating
the evolving ESG space, one topic at a time, Brought
to you by Bloomberg Intelligence, part of Bloomberg's Research department
with five hundred analysts and strategists working across all major
(00:50):
world markets. I'm Eric Kaine, director of ESG Research for
Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And I'm Melanie Rua senior ESG research associate, and we
are your hosts today's episode, Water stress is accelerating across
regions and sectors, emerging as a key risk for companies
and investors alike as fresh water availability declines and demand climbs.
Scalable and sustainable solutions are becoming essential for future proof
(01:18):
business operations and communities. In today's episode, we're spotlighting innovation
at the frontier of water technology. Joining us is Robert Berstrom,
CEO of Oceanwell, a company pioneering subse desalination as a
low footprint, scalable solution for water scarce regions. We'll explore
(01:40):
how this technology could shift the paradigm for desalination, reduce
environmental impact, and create new pathways for climate aligned infrastructure investment.
It's great to have you join.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Us, Robert, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Great so focusing on Oceanwell's unique approach to desalination. Robert,
can you walk us through what subse desalination is and
how your technology differs from traditional land based systems.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yes. Sure, conventional land based desalination, which I've been involved
in since nineteen ninety seven with my first company, Seven
Seas Water, all operate to help secure fresh water supplies,
(02:26):
which is great, but they come with some significant drawbacks,
including industrial plants on the shoreline, environmental impacts, and a
strong brine product after the desalination. We are actually not
(02:48):
even using the term desalination with what we're doing, although
it is removing water from salt. We're introducing a new
category of water product that is clean and designed for
the realities of climate change. It's made up of modular
(03:09):
pods that are located deep in the ocean at a
depth of greater than thirteen hundred feet, using natural ocean
pressure to drive the high pressure water purification method called
reverse osmosis. By shifting from electrical to natural power, we
(03:34):
are able to cut energy use by up to forty percent,
and less energy, of course, means lower costs, which makes
fresh water much more accessible and affordable. It is a
shift from the standard way of doing desalination, where desalination,
(04:02):
as it's traditionally practiced, brings the water ashore. It removes
the marine organisms with unfortunately a high casualty rate, It
removes the salt, and it returns a doubly salty brine
that is difficult to disperse in the ocean. It ultimately
(04:28):
will disperse, but there are concerns of the impact of
it before the dispersion happens. So it is removing salt
from the water using electric pulp. Ocean well, on the
other hand, is sub sea at great depth. It absorbs
(04:52):
fresh water and leaves both the organisms and the salts
in the ocean. We use natural power, and the only power,
the electrical power that we use is to return that
water to shore. Consumption. We call this water harvesting because
(05:16):
we had the insight that the sea will gladly give
us fresh water for free and will desalinate itself if
we put the right equipment in the right places. It
is something that has been considered before, but the supporting
(05:37):
technology really wasn't ready, But now it is, and the
benefits can be enormous environmentally, reduction of cost, more water
for places that need it, and elimination of a lot
(05:59):
of the costs that go into traditional desalination.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
It's really interesting, Robert. So one thing that you mentioned
that I that I liked is that ocean well, as
you described, it is clean and designed for the realities
of climate change. So in my mind, obviously, you know,
one of the realities, as you alluded to a traditional
desalination is that it is extremely energy intensive. And you
(06:25):
suggest it of course that you know, you're using the
pressure within the ocean to you know, essentially drive the
reverse osmosis process. But then are you know, using some
energy ultimately to kind of transport the water. Curious if
you could, you know, walk us through the energy use
a little bit more ultimately, you know what typical savings
(06:49):
would be compared to a traditional plant, and if you're
able to ultimately power this potentially through you know, renewable
power or other means.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yes, to answer your last question first, the fact that
we're reducing energy requirements as much as we are, which
is up to forty percent, means that it is much
more usable with renewable power. So we anticipate using solar
and their opportunities to perhaps use offshore wind or possibly
(07:29):
wave energy to drive this system.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Thanks for sharing, Rubber and you know building off of that.
Would love to hear what kinds of regions or even
sectors are best suited for this technology. Are you targeting
coastal municipalities, industrial users, or perhaps both?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Actually, yes, the coastal part is critical and not all
coastal areas really will be able to use this, but
it is best it is best oriented toward municipalities or
conceivably big industries that would use more than ten million
(08:13):
gallons per day. Ten million gallons is really a minimum
viable capacity, so for a lot of a lot of
reverse as moosts applications, it is too big, but for
cities it is not too big at all, and so
(08:37):
we anticipate that most of our customers will be coastal municipalities,
although there are opportunities to transport that water or exchange
that water so that other places that do not have
a coast can get the best a fit of what
(09:01):
we're doing. And here in California, where our first water
farm will happen, we see the opportunity perhaps to offset
the use that California now takes from the Delta, which has,
(09:25):
as we all know, issues with the environmental problems restrict
the amount of water that come out of it from
places like Owen's Lake and Mono Lake, I think Chinatown,
and from the Colorado which is actually right in Nevada
(09:52):
and Arizona. But we get a lot of water here
that if we can replace it with water from the ocean,
might become available for places that do not have an ocean.
And let me also say another another restriction is that
(10:15):
we do need deep water offshore. So there are a
number of places where this is available, places like California,
parts of Mexico, parts of South America, Chile and Peru
(10:37):
and Colombia, the Caribbean, the Mediterranean, some parts of the
Middle East, and some parts of Asia and Africa. So
there are a lot of places where we could do
(10:58):
a lot of good reducing cost of water and reducing
the environmental impact of what desalination does.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
It's really interesting, and speaking of the environmental impact in
your in your you know, first answer to kind of
describing the technology you mentioned. Of course, the idea that
brine is less of a concern. I'm wondering if you
could expand on that, because you know, my understanding would
be ultimately you're still you know, creating a brine, right,
(11:29):
It's just that it's you know, ultimately being discharged deeper
in the ocean and dispersing more readily. Is that accurate?
Or am I missing a piece of it?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Strong brine normally it's close to twice what the normal
salinity is in the ocean, so it's doubly salty from
a traditional desalination plant. So one hundred percent increase in
salt in that water, our brine is only ten to
(12:05):
fifteen percent instead of one hundred percent increase, and so
it is much more benign. And it also brine wants
to disperse. It's an ionic fluid. It shares charge, therefore
it repels itself. But when it's strong, that's a more
(12:27):
difficult problem. It can only disperse around the edges, and
a mild brine allows us to have almost immediate dispersal
within meters to blow what scientists tell us is a
(12:48):
tolerable level for any marine creature. So, yes, there's a brine,
but it's small, it's localized, and it disperses rap.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
So you mentioned the idea that the first water farm,
as you called it, will be located in California. Curious
to hear more about that project, and then ultimately, you know,
it's our understanding, of course that a lot of these
large scale solutions require significant investments, So we're curious to
hear how you ultimately plan to scale and what role
(13:24):
capital markets or private financing can play in your deployment model.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Thank you. Yeah, you're right, this is going to be expensive,
especially at the scale that we will be operating on,
which is the scale. It's needed to give the Los
Angeles area a base load that they can always count on,
(13:50):
so that no matter what happens with rain or temperature,
that they know they can always provide people a minimum
amount of water. And that scaling is going to end
up in the in the hundreds of millions of dollars,
(14:11):
and so it's going to be an expensive process to
put it in. So what we're doing, you know, we're
a startup and as a result, we have a lot
to prove to the world and we're busy proving it.
And we have gotten a lot of people from the
(14:33):
point of view that this sounds science fictiony, to the
point of view that hey, wait a minute, this is
a huge breakthrough, that this is a step change improvement
environmentally and with the with the costs of which we
(14:54):
can deliver water. So what that means as a startup
is that people, as they buy into the concept, buy
into the company. But if you started out by saying
we need to raise five hundred million dollars, it's so
(15:16):
far eclipses the value of the company that it just
doesn't work from an entrepreneur's point of view. So we're
taking a phase development approach. We're beginning with a pilot
project which is with our first client, which is Las
(15:39):
Virgines Municipal Water District, and then we will be moving
to open ocean testing. These stages they validate the technology
and they also help build the data and the trust
needed for institutional investment. Well, we see really a growing
(16:02):
role for public and private investors in scaling solutions like ours.
Our recent eleven million dollars series A fundraising with significant
participation from Kubota Corporation reflects that sort of momentum. So
(16:27):
as investors recognize water as a strategic asset, we're pretty
well positioned to meet that demand with a solution that's
scalable and there's cost effective and aligned with long term
climate resilience goals.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
That's great to hear and would really love to continue
to talk about those resilience goals from an an issue lens.
You know, you mentioned some of the ways in which
you're quantifying the environmental value of ocean world system. You know,
energy cuts of up to forty percent. You even touched
(17:06):
on just a ten to fifteen percent increase versus the
doubly salty brind levels we're seeing from the traditional systems.
But you also mentioned earlier about you know, leaving organisms
behind versus traditional systems. I had a higher impact negative
impact on these marine life. Would love to hear more.
(17:28):
As you know, investor interests on nature based solutions increases.
You know, are you quantifying the impact on marine life
as well, and have you seen growing interests from investors
you know, in funding water focused innovation.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Even yes, the world is starting to realize that water
is undervalued and that water is a gating kind of
a gating in flow, if you will, on just about
every action that we take, every industry that we have,
(18:09):
our ability to live in large concentrations, all of those
things are diminished, plus agricultural of course, if water becomes
less available. So we are we are finding that it
(18:31):
is a strategic differentiator for businesses, particularly in heavy water demands,
sectors like semiconductors and evs and data centers, and that
as companies make long term decisions about where to locate,
(18:52):
water availability and sustainability metrics are heavily influencing site selection
and investments.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Absolutely. I know we've we've actually written quite a bit
highlighting a lot of the points that you made, really
looking at how water is impacting some of the industries
that you mentioned, of course, semiconductors, data centers, challenges that
different companies and industries have been having recently, citing different facilities,
(19:21):
impacts of production, et cetera. So certainly what you said,
you know, resonates a lot with with some of the
work that we're doing. I think one of the other
areas of focus these days, of course, is the regulatory
landscape around all things you know, related to the environment, climate, water,
And it's my understanding that you know, traditional desalination is
(19:45):
pretty highly regulated. So curious to hear from you, Robert,
what kind of regulatory support or frameworks ultimately help accelerate
the adoption of the technology that that you're introducing.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Well, first, this is this new technology is something that
needs to be speeded along just to match the urgency
of the problem. So there are typical ways of doing
(20:20):
things in the regulatory and water industries, and they tend
to be kind of glacial in their pace. It takes
a long time to do either piloting or for that matter,
finding a client who is willing to take a chance
(20:42):
on a new technology that is not yet proven. The
regulators can help by promoting rapid piloting exemptions from the
regulations to allow these innovations such as ocean well to
(21:02):
really get a chance to show themselves without waiting through
your four years for the for the regulators to grind
through the process. We simply can't wait that long. We
know how much damage has been done in the last
through your four years from lack of water, and you
(21:24):
can expect that it's only going to accelerate from now on.
So regulatorily, yes, we would. We would encourage experiments to happen,
and once those experiments are supported and they're successful, for
(21:46):
these to be prioritized for the good of the society.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Thanks Robert and pivoting a little bit more to marine biodiversity,
which tends to be a concern when it comes to
ocean based solutions. What safeguards are in place to ensure
minimal ecological disruption and degradation.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Our entire design is built on an environment first basis.
The ideas behind it are really driven by the desire
to get rid of the negative externalities that we see
that are holding desalination back, especially in markets that are
(22:32):
particularly climate aware. As a result, our system is designed
to not hurt sea life, even the tiniest of it,
if it enters the pod and through the screens. Obviously,
(22:54):
the fish are all kept out by screens, but some
of the smaller stuff does get through, and instead of
putting that into a filter that then gets thrown away,
we are just gently washing it back out into the
ocean with no changes in pressure, no chemicals. You know
(23:18):
no mechanical handling of the marine organisms, and we hope
for an extremely high survival rate. We are also at
a depth where the amount of biological life is dramatically
(23:42):
lower than it is where traditional desalination takes its water,
which is up at the top of the ocean and
what's called the photic zone. In the photic zone, you
have sunlight penetrating and that starts the food chain, so
(24:05):
you have photosynthesis by algae, and that creates not only
a food source, but it also creates an oxygen source.
And as a result, it's estimated that ninety percent of
(24:27):
the life in the ocean is up in this photic zone.
In the area below the photic zone, and we are deep,
deep below the photic zone. I mean, it's way less
than one percent of light gets down there, and as
(24:47):
a result, there's not a lot happening. There is life,
that's true, but there's so much less life that the
water is extremely clear. So we are in a position
where there's very little oxygen where we're operating because there's
no algae and hence no oxygen generation. And since we
(25:15):
are in that clean water, that's the big you know,
we reduce our likelihood of causing any sort of mortality. Also,
our circulation system, which we call life safe, which is
exactly what we what it should sound like, because that
(25:40):
is why it was designed. It's designed to wash micro
organisms as I mentioned, out into the ocean again without
hurting them, and it allows us to harvest water responsibly,
still protecting deep sea ecosystems.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
That's very interesting. So maybe as a final question, curious
to hear about your future plans or future roadmap for
Oceanwell you manage of course, you mentioned, of course that
the first pilot program will be developed soon. But curious
(26:24):
maybe if you could walk us through like a five
to ten year roadmap and ultimately where you see the
technology going.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Sure, as I mentioned, we just launched the first reverse
as Moss desalination submerged reverse a desalination pilot in the US,
and this will be a six month program to test
our system in shallow but really challenging water. Water that
(26:58):
is deep. I mean it's right from the surface. It
is like fifty feet deep where there is tons of
biological activity, and that will allow us to refine our
self cleaning intake and model the performance. We recently got
(27:22):
California Coastal Commission approval to do ocean testing off of California,
which we will then move to an open ocean testing
and that's a key step toward commercial deployment, and looking ahead,
(27:45):
there will be a number of stages of proof prior
to the time that we are actually deploying the first
water farm, which we hope to do at the end
of this decade, somewhere in the the twenty twenty eight
to twenty thirty range. And then we plan to scale
(28:08):
globally and you know, our target is fifteen deep sea
water farms to deliver sustainable water all around the world.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Fantastic, that's super interesting, always really exciting to hear about
some of the innovation that is happening out there, certainly
in the water space. So I really appreciate you joining us, Robert,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Been at pleasure, and I'm glad to let me say
one more thing before before we go. That is that
that water is undervalue. The the economists are talking about
it more and more. It's been clear to us in
(29:01):
the water industry that that's the case for a long time.
We can't solve the global water prices without changing how
we value what it's, as I said, essential to just
about every sector of the popular of the economy, and
(29:25):
that discourages a low water price, discourages investment in the
infrastructure and the innovation that we urgently need. When water
is priced appropriately, not just by cost to users, but
(29:46):
it's real economic and social and its environmental value, it
unlocks greater efficiency, smarter usage, and stronger incentives for investment.
We recently did a study, or rather we contributed to
(30:09):
a study that Boston Consulting Group BCG did that some
of the readers might find to be interesting. And the
title of the study, and you can find it on
BCG's website, is what is water really worth? And based
(30:30):
on Israeli research and this varies from place to place,
but from research done in Israel, a dollar of water,
a dollar invested in water infrastructure gives a seven dollars
(30:50):
return to society, so not a seven percent return, but
a seven hundred person return. And that is the kind
of thinking that has to come if we're going to
significantly offset the effects of climate change on our water supplies.
(31:19):
And I would recommend that people take a look at
this study. It's very well done by BCG.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Interesting yet thank you for sharing that, and again, thank
you so much for joining us. As a reminder to
our listeners, you can find more information on nature and water,
including our twenty twenty five Global Outlook on Water risk
by going to the Environmental section on the ESG team
(31:50):
dashboard by entering bispace, ESG go on the Bloomberg terminal.
And as always, if you have an ESG quandary or
burning question you would like to ask bi's expert analysts,
please send us an email at ESG Currents at Bloomberg
dot net. Thank you so much, and we'll see you
next time.
ESG has become established as a key business theme as
companies and investors seek to navigate the climate crisis, energy transition,
social mega trends, mounting regulatory attention and pressure from other stakeholders.
The rapidly evolving landscape has become inundated with acronyms, buzzwords,
(00:30):
and lingo, and we aim to break these down with
industry experts. Welcome to ESG Currents, your guide to navigating
the evolving ESG space, one topic at a time, Brought
to you by Bloomberg Intelligence, part of Bloomberg's Research department
with five hundred analysts and strategists working across all major
(00:50):
world markets. I'm Eric Kaine, director of ESG Research for
Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
And I'm Melanie Rua senior ESG research associate, and we
are your hosts today's episode, Water stress is accelerating across
regions and sectors, emerging as a key risk for companies
and investors alike as fresh water availability declines and demand climbs.
Scalable and sustainable solutions are becoming essential for future proof
(01:18):
business operations and communities. In today's episode, we're spotlighting innovation
at the frontier of water technology. Joining us is Robert Berstrom,
CEO of Oceanwell, a company pioneering subse desalination as a
low footprint, scalable solution for water scarce regions. We'll explore
(01:40):
how this technology could shift the paradigm for desalination, reduce
environmental impact, and create new pathways for climate aligned infrastructure investment.
It's great to have you join.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Us, Robert, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Great so focusing on Oceanwell's unique approach to desalination. Robert,
can you walk us through what subse desalination is and
how your technology differs from traditional land based systems.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Yes. Sure, conventional land based desalination, which I've been involved
in since nineteen ninety seven with my first company, Seven
Seas Water, all operate to help secure fresh water supplies,
(02:26):
which is great, but they come with some significant drawbacks,
including industrial plants on the shoreline, environmental impacts, and a
strong brine product after the desalination. We are actually not
(02:48):
even using the term desalination with what we're doing, although
it is removing water from salt. We're introducing a new
category of water product that is clean and designed for
the realities of climate change. It's made up of modular
(03:09):
pods that are located deep in the ocean at a
depth of greater than thirteen hundred feet, using natural ocean
pressure to drive the high pressure water purification method called
reverse osmosis. By shifting from electrical to natural power, we
(03:34):
are able to cut energy use by up to forty percent,
and less energy, of course, means lower costs, which makes
fresh water much more accessible and affordable. It is a
shift from the standard way of doing desalination, where desalination,
(04:02):
as it's traditionally practiced, brings the water ashore. It removes
the marine organisms with unfortunately a high casualty rate, It
removes the salt, and it returns a doubly salty brine
that is difficult to disperse in the ocean. It ultimately
(04:28):
will disperse, but there are concerns of the impact of
it before the dispersion happens. So it is removing salt
from the water using electric pulp. Ocean well, on the
other hand, is sub sea at great depth. It absorbs
(04:52):
fresh water and leaves both the organisms and the salts
in the ocean. We use natural power, and the only power,
the electrical power that we use is to return that
water to shore. Consumption. We call this water harvesting because
(05:16):
we had the insight that the sea will gladly give
us fresh water for free and will desalinate itself if
we put the right equipment in the right places. It
is something that has been considered before, but the supporting
(05:37):
technology really wasn't ready, But now it is, and the
benefits can be enormous environmentally, reduction of cost, more water
for places that need it, and elimination of a lot
(05:59):
of the costs that go into traditional desalination.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
It's really interesting, Robert. So one thing that you mentioned
that I that I liked is that ocean well, as
you described, it is clean and designed for the realities
of climate change. So in my mind, obviously, you know,
one of the realities, as you alluded to a traditional
desalination is that it is extremely energy intensive. And you
(06:25):
suggest it of course that you know, you're using the
pressure within the ocean to you know, essentially drive the
reverse osmosis process. But then are you know, using some
energy ultimately to kind of transport the water. Curious if
you could, you know, walk us through the energy use
a little bit more ultimately, you know what typical savings
(06:49):
would be compared to a traditional plant, and if you're
able to ultimately power this potentially through you know, renewable
power or other means.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yes, to answer your last question first, the fact that
we're reducing energy requirements as much as we are, which
is up to forty percent, means that it is much
more usable with renewable power. So we anticipate using solar
and their opportunities to perhaps use offshore wind or possibly
(07:29):
wave energy to drive this system.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Thanks for sharing, Rubber and you know building off of that.
Would love to hear what kinds of regions or even
sectors are best suited for this technology. Are you targeting
coastal municipalities, industrial users, or perhaps both?
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Actually, yes, the coastal part is critical and not all
coastal areas really will be able to use this, but
it is best it is best oriented toward municipalities or
conceivably big industries that would use more than ten million
(08:13):
gallons per day. Ten million gallons is really a minimum
viable capacity, so for a lot of a lot of
reverse as moosts applications, it is too big, but for
cities it is not too big at all, and so
(08:37):
we anticipate that most of our customers will be coastal municipalities,
although there are opportunities to transport that water or exchange
that water so that other places that do not have
a coast can get the best a fit of what
(09:01):
we're doing. And here in California, where our first water
farm will happen, we see the opportunity perhaps to offset
the use that California now takes from the Delta, which has,
(09:25):
as we all know, issues with the environmental problems restrict
the amount of water that come out of it from
places like Owen's Lake and Mono Lake, I think Chinatown,
and from the Colorado which is actually right in Nevada
(09:52):
and Arizona. But we get a lot of water here
that if we can replace it with water from the ocean,
might become available for places that do not have an ocean.
And let me also say another another restriction is that
(10:15):
we do need deep water offshore. So there are a
number of places where this is available, places like California,
parts of Mexico, parts of South America, Chile and Peru
(10:37):
and Colombia, the Caribbean, the Mediterranean, some parts of the
Middle East, and some parts of Asia and Africa. So
there are a lot of places where we could do
(10:58):
a lot of good reducing cost of water and reducing
the environmental impact of what desalination does.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
It's really interesting, and speaking of the environmental impact in
your in your you know, first answer to kind of
describing the technology you mentioned. Of course, the idea that
brine is less of a concern. I'm wondering if you
could expand on that, because you know, my understanding would
be ultimately you're still you know, creating a brine, right,
(11:29):
It's just that it's you know, ultimately being discharged deeper
in the ocean and dispersing more readily. Is that accurate?
Or am I missing a piece of it?
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Strong brine normally it's close to twice what the normal
salinity is in the ocean, so it's doubly salty from
a traditional desalination plant. So one hundred percent increase in
salt in that water, our brine is only ten to
(12:05):
fifteen percent instead of one hundred percent increase, and so
it is much more benign. And it also brine wants
to disperse. It's an ionic fluid. It shares charge, therefore
it repels itself. But when it's strong, that's a more
(12:27):
difficult problem. It can only disperse around the edges, and
a mild brine allows us to have almost immediate dispersal
within meters to blow what scientists tell us is a
(12:48):
tolerable level for any marine creature. So, yes, there's a brine,
but it's small, it's localized, and it disperses rap.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
So you mentioned the idea that the first water farm,
as you called it, will be located in California. Curious
to hear more about that project, and then ultimately, you know,
it's our understanding, of course that a lot of these
large scale solutions require significant investments, So we're curious to
hear how you ultimately plan to scale and what role
(13:24):
capital markets or private financing can play in your deployment model.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Thank you. Yeah, you're right, this is going to be expensive,
especially at the scale that we will be operating on,
which is the scale. It's needed to give the Los
Angeles area a base load that they can always count on,
(13:50):
so that no matter what happens with rain or temperature,
that they know they can always provide people a minimum
amount of water. And that scaling is going to end
up in the in the hundreds of millions of dollars,
(14:11):
and so it's going to be an expensive process to
put it in. So what we're doing, you know, we're
a startup and as a result, we have a lot
to prove to the world and we're busy proving it.
And we have gotten a lot of people from the
(14:33):
point of view that this sounds science fictiony, to the
point of view that hey, wait a minute, this is
a huge breakthrough, that this is a step change improvement
environmentally and with the with the costs of which we
(14:54):
can deliver water. So what that means as a startup
is that people, as they buy into the concept, buy
into the company. But if you started out by saying
we need to raise five hundred million dollars, it's so
(15:16):
far eclipses the value of the company that it just
doesn't work from an entrepreneur's point of view. So we're
taking a phase development approach. We're beginning with a pilot
project which is with our first client, which is Las
(15:39):
Virgines Municipal Water District, and then we will be moving
to open ocean testing. These stages they validate the technology
and they also help build the data and the trust
needed for institutional investment. Well, we see really a growing
(16:02):
role for public and private investors in scaling solutions like ours.
Our recent eleven million dollars series A fundraising with significant
participation from Kubota Corporation reflects that sort of momentum. So
(16:27):
as investors recognize water as a strategic asset, we're pretty
well positioned to meet that demand with a solution that's
scalable and there's cost effective and aligned with long term
climate resilience goals.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
That's great to hear and would really love to continue
to talk about those resilience goals from an an issue lens.
You know, you mentioned some of the ways in which
you're quantifying the environmental value of ocean world system. You know,
energy cuts of up to forty percent. You even touched
(17:06):
on just a ten to fifteen percent increase versus the
doubly salty brind levels we're seeing from the traditional systems.
But you also mentioned earlier about you know, leaving organisms
behind versus traditional systems. I had a higher impact negative
impact on these marine life. Would love to hear more.
(17:28):
As you know, investor interests on nature based solutions increases.
You know, are you quantifying the impact on marine life
as well, and have you seen growing interests from investors
you know, in funding water focused innovation.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Even yes, the world is starting to realize that water
is undervalued and that water is a gating kind of
a gating in flow, if you will, on just about
every action that we take, every industry that we have,
(18:09):
our ability to live in large concentrations, all of those
things are diminished, plus agricultural of course, if water becomes
less available. So we are we are finding that it
(18:31):
is a strategic differentiator for businesses, particularly in heavy water demands,
sectors like semiconductors and evs and data centers, and that
as companies make long term decisions about where to locate,
(18:52):
water availability and sustainability metrics are heavily influencing site selection
and investments.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Absolutely. I know we've we've actually written quite a bit
highlighting a lot of the points that you made, really
looking at how water is impacting some of the industries
that you mentioned, of course, semiconductors, data centers, challenges that
different companies and industries have been having recently, citing different facilities,
(19:21):
impacts of production, et cetera. So certainly what you said,
you know, resonates a lot with with some of the
work that we're doing. I think one of the other
areas of focus these days, of course, is the regulatory
landscape around all things you know, related to the environment, climate, water,
And it's my understanding that you know, traditional desalination is
(19:45):
pretty highly regulated. So curious to hear from you, Robert,
what kind of regulatory support or frameworks ultimately help accelerate
the adoption of the technology that that you're introducing.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Well, first, this is this new technology is something that
needs to be speeded along just to match the urgency
of the problem. So there are typical ways of doing
(20:20):
things in the regulatory and water industries, and they tend
to be kind of glacial in their pace. It takes
a long time to do either piloting or for that matter,
finding a client who is willing to take a chance
(20:42):
on a new technology that is not yet proven. The
regulators can help by promoting rapid piloting exemptions from the
regulations to allow these innovations such as ocean well to
(21:02):
really get a chance to show themselves without waiting through
your four years for the for the regulators to grind
through the process. We simply can't wait that long. We
know how much damage has been done in the last
through your four years from lack of water, and you
(21:24):
can expect that it's only going to accelerate from now on.
So regulatorily, yes, we would. We would encourage experiments to happen,
and once those experiments are supported and they're successful, for
(21:46):
these to be prioritized for the good of the society.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Thanks Robert and pivoting a little bit more to marine biodiversity,
which tends to be a concern when it comes to
ocean based solutions. What safeguards are in place to ensure
minimal ecological disruption and degradation.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Our entire design is built on an environment first basis.
The ideas behind it are really driven by the desire
to get rid of the negative externalities that we see
that are holding desalination back, especially in markets that are
(22:32):
particularly climate aware. As a result, our system is designed
to not hurt sea life, even the tiniest of it,
if it enters the pod and through the screens. Obviously,
(22:54):
the fish are all kept out by screens, but some
of the smaller stuff does get through, and instead of
putting that into a filter that then gets thrown away,
we are just gently washing it back out into the
ocean with no changes in pressure, no chemicals. You know
(23:18):
no mechanical handling of the marine organisms, and we hope
for an extremely high survival rate. We are also at
a depth where the amount of biological life is dramatically
(23:42):
lower than it is where traditional desalination takes its water,
which is up at the top of the ocean and
what's called the photic zone. In the photic zone, you
have sunlight penetrating and that starts the food chain, so
(24:05):
you have photosynthesis by algae, and that creates not only
a food source, but it also creates an oxygen source.
And as a result, it's estimated that ninety percent of
(24:27):
the life in the ocean is up in this photic zone.
In the area below the photic zone, and we are deep,
deep below the photic zone. I mean, it's way less
than one percent of light gets down there, and as
(24:47):
a result, there's not a lot happening. There is life,
that's true, but there's so much less life that the
water is extremely clear. So we are in a position
where there's very little oxygen where we're operating because there's
no algae and hence no oxygen generation. And since we
(25:15):
are in that clean water, that's the big you know,
we reduce our likelihood of causing any sort of mortality. Also,
our circulation system, which we call life safe, which is
exactly what we what it should sound like, because that
(25:40):
is why it was designed. It's designed to wash micro
organisms as I mentioned, out into the ocean again without
hurting them, and it allows us to harvest water responsibly,
still protecting deep sea ecosystems.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
That's very interesting. So maybe as a final question, curious
to hear about your future plans or future roadmap for
Oceanwell you manage of course, you mentioned, of course that
the first pilot program will be developed soon. But curious
(26:24):
maybe if you could walk us through like a five
to ten year roadmap and ultimately where you see the
technology going.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Sure, as I mentioned, we just launched the first reverse
as Moss desalination submerged reverse a desalination pilot in the US,
and this will be a six month program to test
our system in shallow but really challenging water. Water that
(26:58):
is deep. I mean it's right from the surface. It
is like fifty feet deep where there is tons of
biological activity, and that will allow us to refine our
self cleaning intake and model the performance. We recently got
(27:22):
California Coastal Commission approval to do ocean testing off of California,
which we will then move to an open ocean testing
and that's a key step toward commercial deployment, and looking ahead,
(27:45):
there will be a number of stages of proof prior
to the time that we are actually deploying the first
water farm, which we hope to do at the end
of this decade, somewhere in the the twenty twenty eight
to twenty thirty range. And then we plan to scale
(28:08):
globally and you know, our target is fifteen deep sea
water farms to deliver sustainable water all around the world.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
Fantastic, that's super interesting, always really exciting to hear about
some of the innovation that is happening out there, certainly
in the water space. So I really appreciate you joining us, Robert,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Been at pleasure, and I'm glad to let me say
one more thing before before we go. That is that
that water is undervalue. The the economists are talking about
it more and more. It's been clear to us in
(29:01):
the water industry that that's the case for a long time.
We can't solve the global water prices without changing how
we value what it's, as I said, essential to just
about every sector of the popular of the economy, and
(29:25):
that discourages a low water price, discourages investment in the
infrastructure and the innovation that we urgently need. When water
is priced appropriately, not just by cost to users, but
(29:46):
it's real economic and social and its environmental value, it
unlocks greater efficiency, smarter usage, and stronger incentives for investment.
We recently did a study, or rather we contributed to
(30:09):
a study that Boston Consulting Group BCG did that some
of the readers might find to be interesting. And the
title of the study, and you can find it on
BCG's website, is what is water really worth? And based
(30:30):
on Israeli research and this varies from place to place,
but from research done in Israel, a dollar of water,
a dollar invested in water infrastructure gives a seven dollars
(30:50):
return to society, so not a seven percent return, but
a seven hundred person return. And that is the kind
of thinking that has to come if we're going to
significantly offset the effects of climate change on our water supplies.
(31:19):
And I would recommend that people take a look at
this study. It's very well done by BCG.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Interesting yet thank you for sharing that, and again, thank
you so much for joining us. As a reminder to
our listeners, you can find more information on nature and water,
including our twenty twenty five Global Outlook on Water risk
by going to the Environmental section on the ESG team
(31:50):
dashboard by entering bispace, ESG go on the Bloomberg terminal.
And as always, if you have an ESG quandary or
burning question you would like to ask bi's expert analysts,
please send us an email at ESG Currents at Bloomberg
dot net. Thank you so much, and we'll see you
next time.
Host
Eric Kane
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