December 10, 2025 • 32 mins
Achieving 2030 targets associated with the Paris Agreement and the UN Sustainable Development Goals could cost trillions of dollars. The Sustainable Markets Initiative (SMI), founded in 2020 by then-Prince Charles, aims to mobilize capital markets toward these targets. On this episode of the ESG Currents podcast, Bloomberg Intelligence ESG analysts Gail Glazerman and Rob Du Boff speak with SMI CEO Jennifer Jordan-Saifi about the organization’s progress and the private-market shift from communicating ambitions to delivering. This episode was recorded Nov. 18.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
ESG is constantly evolving. Over the years. It is shifted
from socially responsible investing to impact to sustainable finance. While
the terminology continues to change, what hasn't changed are the
underlying science market pressures, tangible physical and financial impacts of
the climate crisis, as well as increasing regulatory scrutiny and
(00:22):
rising consumer expectations. We aim to filter out the noise
by speaking with industry experts to identify what is really
driving value. Welcome to ESG Currents, brought to you by
Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hi, I'm Rob Yboff, Senior esc analyist, and I'm Gil Glazerman,
also senior ESG analyst, and we're your hosts for today's episode.
Twenty twenty five has seen a mark shift in both
the tone and discussion of commitments to sustainability around the world,
with many government's rethinking policy approaches. While some companies may
welcome regulatory relief, this doesn't change the ten realities a
(01:00):
cligmate change driving increasing physical risks which threatened businesses, or
social challenges which can manifest on the bottom line. Today
we are joined by Jennifer Jordan Safety, CEO of the
Sustainable Markets Initiative, an organization founded by His Majesty King
Charles the Third that seeks to rally the private sector
for sustainable transition, and we will discuss activating the private
(01:24):
sector to address sustainability challenges. Jennifer, thank you for joining
us today.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Just to start off, can you please tell us a
little bit about the history, goals and activities of the
Sustainable Markets Initiative.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Sure, as you mentioned, his Majesty King Charles the Third,
then Prince of Wales, established the Sustainable Markets Initiative or
SMI in twenty twenty at Davos. His fifty years of
experience of sustainability really led him to recognize that, you know,
if the world was to achieve the twenty thirty goals,
whether it's the SDGs or the Paris Climate Agreement or
(01:59):
the Convention of Biological Diversity, they were talking about moving
from billions to trillions to sort of make those goals realized,
and that the only way that we were going to
actually make that happen would be through convening and mobilizing
the global private sector. And that's really where it originated.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Is King Charles still actively involved, has the organization changed
a bit since his coronation.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I think remains as involved as ever. I think his
level of commitment has never wavered in terms of engaging
with the SMI. Obviously there's some shifts because he has
become king, there's constitutional realities, but you know, he still
convenes our CEO community, often behind closed doors, but also
(02:45):
at public events like our annual CEO Summit in London
in March.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
So the organization has been active for about five years.
I'm just wondering, can you talk about what you see
as some of its biggest accomplishments to date.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah, I think it's it's been quite unique in terms
of how it was structured. So His Majesty's vision was
to bring together communities of CEOs around financial sectors and
real economy industries, so all around the world, some of
the world's largest multinational companies and really try to get
(03:19):
them on the same page with the direction of travel.
I think a lot of that has been achieved over
the past five years. Some of the biggest accomplishments is
really like how many of the companies have internalized a
default sustainable approach to their business models, really recognizing the
investment opportunity of transition thinking longer term, so the results
(03:42):
are being born out within the companies themselves, which is
really our approach rather than us being the doers ourselves.
It's really trying to mobilize those companies to keep striving
on their journey of transition towards those goals that sort
of collectively we're seeking to achieve.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I want to dig into that maybe in a little
bit more detail as we moved through their discussion. But
you mentioned twenty thirty, so five years in. What do
you see is the biggest challenges for the next five
years and to meet the kind of some of the
original accomplishments.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I mean, I think the reality is that the you
know that the world has changed, you know, the political
environment has shifted, especially this past year, and I think
global CEOs have had to understand, you know, what this
means for business, Like, is this a fundamental shift? Does
the investment in business case still remain? What's the long view,
(04:41):
what's the short view? And what we're going to keep
and what we're going to maybe leave behind and evolve.
But I think, you know, as we sort of stand today,
I think a lot of that uncertainty that we may
be experience at the beginning of the year is sort
of settling out, and you know, the investment in business
case does remain. I think how we talk about things
has shifted, and I think in many ways that's actually
(05:03):
quite helpful. We're able to be a little bit more
pragmatic than ideological, and as we move forward, like the
goals remain the same, like how do we transition aviation, shipping, buildings, health,
fashion in the right direction to achieve you know, ultimate sustainability.
I think about nature, people and planet and contribute to
global value creation in that process, so you're not losing
(05:24):
profit for more intangible goals. But I think maybe the
way we go about it, the way we communicate about it,
you know, it has has changed. And so I think
looking will had as being more strategic. It's thinking about,
you know, how governments and consumers and private sector actors align.
(05:45):
And also like looking at a lot of these issues
from a macro global perspective, recognizing that markets are deeply
interconnected and supply chains are deeply interconnected. So how are
we going to work more pragmatically together globally which will
be a big challenge for the next five years.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, I definitely want to dig in on that a
little bit more. Here in the US, there's been a
shift and how companies talk about sustainability. I think, you know,
we just had the cop COP thirty and this is
the first year the US has not even sent a delegation.
You know, is there a risk of that happening at
the global level? And you kind of mentioned already how
companies have shifted the way they're talking about some of
(06:22):
these sustainability activities. You know, do you see that trend
continuing permanently or do you think this is a temporary blip,
And you know, how does that compare to where we
were a few years ago?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
So I think, you know, a few years ago, you know,
there was much more unity and like everyone coming together
again with sort of a common vision around you know,
values and direction of travel. And so I think it
was maybe much more about communication than about delivery. And
I think now we've shifted into delivery, and so where
can delivery actually happen. The SMI is a really interesting
(06:59):
organization because we bridge the public sector and the private sector.
So we engage heavily bilaterally with countries and multilateral for
in other places. But we start with the private sector
first lens. And so that means that, you know, the
private sector should try to think about what are the
solutions to transition, what do they need from governments and
(07:19):
from regulation and sort of help formulate those recommendations because
they know their industries, they know the financial realities from
the private sector much stronger than government policy makers. So
putting those very concrete recommendations to governments in the right
juristic jurisdictions will actually help us you move faster and
start scaling around the world. So I think that's that's
(07:42):
changed a fair amount, just again the pragmatism around it
and then just again being more ideological and communicating ambition,
which was really helpful five years ago. But that communicating
ambition isn't enough anymore. Now, we need to see how
we're going to do it.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, and you know you mentioned that the private side.
So what do you see as the advantages of working
through the private sector as compared to working through governments.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
So the private sector tends to be a little bit
more efficient and again pragmatic, They can be faster, So
policy development, legislation, regulation can take years to advance. And
I think you know, when we listen to countries, particularly
in emerging and developing markets. You know, they've really struggled
with even accessing committed funds like climate funds to sort
(08:28):
of help them deliver their transition or resilience priorities in country.
The system moves extremely slowly, and if we are talking
we've got like less than five years left a twenty thirty.
How are we actually going to achieve those goals? So
the private sector can be faster. But the key thing
is that they need some space to sort of be
creative about the solutions and to crowd in around problem
(08:52):
statements or opportunities and say, okay, we need insurance here,
we need private equity here, We're going to need the
air force, the manufacturers and the airlines to actually work
towards scaling up sustainable aviation fuel. And they need to
think much more creatively than some just sitting back and
waiting for governments to identify a solution which might be
ten years down the road and could shift because of
(09:13):
political priorities as we've seen in the past five years.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Yeah, and in June you released a private sector call
to action. Can you maybe for some of our listeners,
what is your pitch to the private sector, you know,
how do you get them, how do you get them
to buy into some of these goals and is there
anything in particular that resonates with them.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, So this really started again when the UK host
at the G seven and twenty twenty one. We also
were present at the G twenty in Rome the same year,
and obviously CAP twenty six was also had that same year,
so we had a huge amount of government momentum then.
But when we were thinking about how do we engage
with G seven governments, we recognize them we need to
(09:55):
be really specific and very clear what we need from
those G seven governments. So again, if it's a target
for sustainable aviation fuel, like do we need mandates to
get that done? This is the mandate target that we
would recommend. And I think at the time we were
looking at, you know, thirty percent by twenty thirty. I think,
you know, we're still struggling at you know, ten percent
by twenty thirty. And so we do a marked market
(10:17):
of that every single year, again industry by industry, issue
by issue, and say, you know, the private sector or
the SMI and the private sector continue to call on
governments to support you know, the ambition of a transition
to sustainable aviation fuel. This is sort of the percentage
that we recommend by this date, and this is where
we see each of the countries in terms of their
(10:37):
respective mandates and so how much room is there for
governments to act more proactively in concert with the private sector.
So we definitely find when we're presenting these recommendations that
when we have the industry and the finance behind it,
it makes them a much stronger argument to governments that
allows them permission to act in that direction. Because governments
(10:58):
are also looking for economic growth, and when they know
the economic growth might come, then that's when the private
sector and public sector can meet together. And that's really
the objective of that particular action plan.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
That makes a lot of sense. So what do you
think the private sector has gotten right about about the
transition to date? And what do you think maybe there's
been some misunderstandings or they've taken the wrong approach and
they've had to kind of go back on on certain initiatives.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I think, you know, the past five years has really
been about learning right, you know, how like where can
the private sector you know, have a voice? You know,
what kind of solutions can they identify. And I think
that's been a bit of a learning process, and you know,
things like science based targets and things like that, there
was a learning curve and all of that. And like
when we started in you know, twenty twenty, there might
have been one or two people and their sustainability units
(11:46):
and now, like you know, they've a lot of them
have hired like you know, huge numbers of people to
sort of make sure the company is on track with that.
I think where the private sector has gotten a little
bit confused is with all of the regulation and reporting
requirements to try to demonstrate that they are genuinely doing
the right thing, and I think that some of that
(12:07):
is being scaled back in the SMI I think what
we're trying to encourage is, like we recognize it's a
learning process, is to journey. Every company's starting at a
different point, but you know, we definitely feel that we
can move faster together. So when an entire industry is
sort of pointed in this common direction and it's sort
of sharing lessons learned, they definitely can lead leap frog
(12:28):
off of each other and move faster. And it also
helps the financing communities to sort of understand you know,
where the investment opportunity is going to lie in the
next five, ten, fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I'm just wondering. You mentioned obviously the environment no pun
intended has changed in twenty twenty five, and I'm just wondering,
do you think that's affecting what companies are saying or
do you also see it impacting what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I've been actually, you know, sort of pleasantly surprised, is that,
you know, at first it was, you know, a fear
of walking back completely. I have to say, like that
was definitely early in the year. There were some concerns
that people were just going to walk away from the agenda,
and I think we heard a little bit of that
concern at New York Climate Week and I think most
recently at cop But in reality, we are seeing most
(13:19):
of the companies just you know, recognizing that, you know,
it makes business sense, Like the investment case is there,
the energy transition evidence is there. So I think we've
already hit the tipping point out energy. Definitely, we have
an energy supply problem around the world and a grid
capacity problem around the world, and we're going to need
(13:40):
to work towards that. And I think in different markets.
There's going to be a different type of energy mix
as we transition, But if we do want to make
a full transition, you know, away from fossil fuels over time,
we have to help those companies. And the SMI has
always been sort of a big tent recognizing that we
need to be inclusive of all of these energy solutions.
So I see that everyone is trying to make their
(14:02):
best effort. They see sort of the writing on the wall,
and then we see that all around the world where
you know, the energy future will be greener, and the
energy future impacts every other industry, and so there's a
huge amount of focus now on energy, which I think
is correct because with greener energy, we can then transition
(14:23):
all of the other industries in line with that effort.
So I definitely think that they are on track and
you know, still committed, but the language being used is
much more commercially aligned than it was maybe ideologically five
years ago.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And going back, Rob asked what the private sector is
doing well? And I guess, flipping it, where have you
seen governments particularly effective at activating the private sector to
to support these solutions? Anything in specific, any policy in
particular that you think has worked and been particularly effective.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
So the private sector like certainty, and I'm sure we
all know that, but long term certainty, and I think
that we've really done the private sector of disservice when
there was a lot of goodwill five years ago, and
then you governments have been walking back their targets. So
what was really effective or what has been really effective
(15:18):
is ev mandates for example, and knowing you know what's coming,
then the industry adapts to that, and then finance also
adapts with the alternative. And when we walk that back,
they're on certain like so the investment stops, the production stops,
and like that's not helpful. So you know, from the
private sector standpoint, what we are asking governments to do
is think much more long term. We're talking like minimum ten,
(15:41):
like fifteen, twenty thirty years out and ensure that you're
consistent with those market signals so the private sector can
align itself to deliver those goals. And again, if we're
talking about trillions for transition and you're talking about economic growth,
new jobs, you know, unlocking the potential of innovation through AI,
we have to get aligned for our longer term future
(16:03):
than sort of political cycles and that that sort of
been to the detriment of the private sector's efforts to date.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I think in that context you're surprised that maybe not
members of the Sustainable Markets Initiative, that overall the private
sector seems to be pushing for some of these rollbacks
that we're seeing from the governments, even in market, even
in regions like Europe, which has been amongst the most supportive.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I can at the moment think of any specific examples
of you know, where that's exactly happening. But I think
when private sector feels over regulated, then that there's definitely
pushback on that because many companies have been spending you know,
millions and millions of dollars on reporting rather than investing
(16:46):
that money in the transition of their own companies and
supply chains, right, and so again, like when it's a
cost benefit situation, we're not seeing much benefit from the reporting,
you know, then it comes into question. So I have
seen that kind of pushback, But overall, I think, you know,
industries are looking for government support to help them transition
so that they can align the finance and there's no
(17:06):
finance or capital issue, like there's an abundance of finance
and capital available in the world, even for emerging and
developing markets, but the government systems need to align to
enable that. And so for example, like an emerging and
developing economies like there are real risk issues, whether it's
political risk or FX risks that private sector alone can't
(17:27):
take all those risks, and so what is the role
then of governments multilateral institutions to help cover some of
that risk So the rest of the role can come
and transition alongside the developed world.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Great shifting gears a little bit. You know, one of
the more interesting conversations this here has been you just
mentioned finance, but financing adaptation versus mitigation. You know, you
recently saw Bill Gates saying, you know, maybe we shouldn't
put all the eggs in the basket of mitigating, but
also thinking about adaptation. Have you seen this from some
(18:00):
of the SMI members as well, you know, rethinking maybe adaptation.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah. I think at least in the SMY we've always
had that mindset of adaptation and mitigation and you know,
holistic in terms of biodiversity and nature based solutions alongside
commercial and industrial solutions. So I think we've always had
that mindset. But I definitely see a growing interest in
that space of adaptation, and I think we have to
(18:30):
sort of now face the reality, you know, we've already
surpassed one point five degrees. We're going to need to
adapt to the you know, the warming environment, and you know,
really think about, you know, what does that actually mean.
And I think an interesting conversation sort of comes in
around things like insurance and you know, premiums and things
like that, you know, financing for you know, less resilient infrastructure,
(18:55):
and you know, what are we going to do in
terms of that adaptation and what does that mean for
industry transition. So definitely it's a huge conversation that you know,
maybe started in emerging and developing markets, but it is
definitely something that is everyone's radar now. So definitely a shift,
i'd say, but one that I think the private sector
really has some solutions for.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
And I briefly mentioned the Private Sector Call to Action
and there are I believe twenty five recommendations in there.
You know, as we look into twenty twenty six, you know,
are there any that that you know, you think are
key in the shorter term?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I think as we look into twenty twenty six, it's
really you know, not just asking the private sector to
you know, stay the course. It's asking governments to stay
the course, and as we said before, is like really
encouraging governments to provide those longer term market signals that
you know, business and finance need to sort of make
the right investments into the transition across all sectors. I
(19:56):
think we also need to be thinking really smartly about
you know, AI, advanced technologies, the use of space, space,
space services data. Like, a lot of this is hugely
transformative and scaling at a pace that many industries are
even underestimating. And so I think as we go into
twenty twenty six, a lot of those recommendations apply both
(20:16):
to the private sector and the public sector, and like,
how are we going to when both are moving at
different speeds, align those for highest impact for the sake
of humanity?
Speaker 4 (20:26):
And are you more or less optimistic about the prospects
for any of these since the collisition in June? You
mentioned AI the pace of that, but any other pacing
that surprised you.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I think that the solutions again, like I think largely
coming out of AI is just recognized and just how
quickly things can move and how quickly Marcus can be
disrupted by some of these emerging technologies. So whether that's
nuclear fusion, which people really thought, you know, in many
of my conversations even today, you know, people still think
as decades away and actually sort of on par with SMRs.
(20:59):
So I think that I think what we're going to
see some surprises in terms of the technical technological solutions
that are available to us that are sort of emerging
out of that space, and so the transition may become
much more possible at a faster pace because of these
enabling technologies.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
And then one thing we've discussed quite a bit recently
in this kind of dovetailed nicely with the AI is
that you know, there's been a lot of deregulatory actions,
particularly around the power sector, and how some of these
actions can have unintended consequences in some cases that actually
supports some of the sustainability goals by cutting through the
red tape. Would you agree, Are there any examples of
(21:37):
this in your work?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, for sure. I think one of the biggest issues
that we sort of included in that action plan for
the past four years has really been the issue of permitting,
because permitting times, you know, don't align with the time
prints we're talking about to twenty thirty. If it takes
seven to twelve years to build a wind farm or
solar firm and get a permit to sort of do so, again,
(21:59):
the investment, we'll just move on to somewhere else where
it's easier to get done. And so I think this
is one of the key things that you know, we
really hope that we can align on.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
And you mentioned in your view there's really no shortage
of capital. Do you feel that it's going to the
right places currently or where would you like to see
more of that capital flowing over the next year.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So I definitely think it's flowing relatively while in the
developed markets it's still that emerging and developing markets where
we're seeing you know, a lot less of that capital flowing.
But again it's all related to the risk factors that
the capital faces. So it's an area that we're working
heavily on where we're going to be convening in a
couple of weeks time with many of the heads of
(22:40):
the MDBs with the financial sector to try to, you know,
keep pushing that door on how do we identify these solutions?
And I think we're also saying to the private sector,
you know, whether can we get creative with insurance, Like
how can insurance help enable capital to flow you know,
private sector to private sector, you know, with industry partners
rather than having to sort of rely on public sector support.
(23:02):
But the reality is currently is that, you know that
public sector support can be hugely helpful to getting deals
done relatively quickly. So that's where I really see the opportunity.
I think we're seeing a lot of investment into AI,
which I think then is a knock on effect into
energy and this idea of energy abundance and the need
for energy, and then that then goes to grids. So
(23:23):
there's sort of like this domino effect that sort of
happens across you know, all industries basically in all around
the world. And so like, as we pursue more AI,
we're going to need more data centers, which needs more energy.
How do we do that you know in a in
a sort of green way or an energy a clean
energy way. And I think those solutions will then help
(23:45):
lead to you know, fafter deployment of other solutions across
the board and other investments. If we look at how
AI is being financed, you know, other industry and technological
solutions or not you know, finance in the same way.
So like, how do we get the same type of
excitement about you know, fusion as we're seeing about AI
(24:08):
right So AI is easier to find finance right now,
and say fusion is more difficult. So, you know, how
can we make it easier to achieve some of these
energy solutions or industry solutions by getting you know, off
takers and other people that can help secure the finance
at the scale required globally.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
That's really interesting, And we've talked about a lot of
just the broader kind of sustainability e SG pushback, and
I'm just wondering in that context, when you speak to
your members, do you see a shift in how they
look at the balance between environmental and social initiatives? And
obviously a lot of your call to action is based
(24:48):
on the transition in the environment, But do you feel
that there's been equal retained commitment to both kind of
environmental social Do you see the balance shifting at all?
U or is the approach to social shifting and all?
Do you have any sense of that from your interactions?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
So I see a shift in terms of thinking about
skills development, thinking about employee retention because you know, many
employees still very much care about you know, environments, climate, nature,
So it's a retention issue for many companies. But it's
also that sort of employment side, and increasingly we're hearing
(25:30):
conversations around well being. So in the countries where people
are operating, you know, what are the health impacts? You know,
so we're talking about climate, we're talking about you know,
emissions and things like that. You know, what are the
health impacts around the world in different countries. So I
think that there's there's still a huge awareness of that
(25:52):
social component. I think different companies are looking at it
slightly differently. But again in the SMI like, we absolutely
to make sure that you know, the people part, and
so we've got we say nature, people plan it. You know,
it's really also at the center because everything we're doing
is for our you know, current of future generations and
(26:13):
where we're looking at the impact this has on populations.
So the other angle I think that a lot of
companies are thinking about when I particularly talk to governments
about the benefits of transition, again is sort of that
economic growth that jobs agenda, So as as the private
sector talks to governments and tries to align on these
market signals. You know, it's really important that we recognize
(26:33):
that what what are the issues governments are trying to solve.
It is you know, economic growth, It is you know
jobs and employment and skills and upskilling away from traditional
industries into new tradition, new future oriented industries, and so
that sort of skills gap is a real issue and
the private sector has to contribute to that. So I
think many of them understand and they are working to
(26:56):
solve that problem too.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, that's interesting, I know, for since we'll have the
focus on nuclear power to run the data centers, that
there's a real lack pretty much everywhere on the engineers
and labor to both build as well as operate those sites.
So we've touched on this off and on a few times,
but just to kind of come back to it, that's
(27:19):
one of my favorite areas, just the importance and linking
of sustainability and business strategy. I think at one time
you even referred to that as the growth story of
our time, and I'm just wondering if you can unpack
that a bit and maybe your sense do companies believe
that more today than they might have five years ago?
When you were launching this journey, and are there any
(27:40):
specific examples where maybe a somewhat reluctant company you were
talking to five years ago, you know, has found opportunities
that they might not have anticipated on the business side
from pursuing this.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, I guess we just think about, you know, trying
to not look at client I'm at action as a
negative or like what we see a lot of doom
and gloom in that narrative is that you know, maybe
there's nothing that we can do as you know, global society,
(28:14):
and so we try to flip it as a genuine
economic opportunity. And we also see you know, countries around
the world struggling, and so if we focus on the
opportunity of it, then you know, we definitely see this
as the growth story of our time. Like we're creating
entirely new markets with new technologies that weren't even available
five years ago, even like the AI conversation. We wouldn't
have had this conversation five years ago. So how are
(28:35):
these things going to transform every single industry in every
single country on the planet. It's going to be transformative.
And already, like I mean again, we have the terra
Karta which is ourt of earth based industries, and we
have the Astra Karta which is space based industries. And
already now we see this huge intersection between space based
and earth based industries, including things like pharmaceuticals and health
(28:56):
as well as like just the day to day realities
of you know, GPS, you know, managing our our you know,
transportation systems and satellites now being able to sort of
monitor better, you know, earth based realities, shipping methane, a
whole bunch of different areas where you now we can
have the data and the AI is now enabling us
to analyze that data in a way that is meaningful
(29:18):
from a commercial standpoints, now becoming material and so as
we advance those types of opportunities, there's definitely a business case, uh,
to seize you know, what we call the growth story
of our time. And so I definitely see businesses have
you know, very much recognized that now and internalize that,
(29:40):
and you know, many of them are seeing opportunity including
how they help their clients, you know, on that journey
of transition, so you know, how they can help sort
of you know, all of their you know, a supply
chain transition. So there's a huge amount of opportunity across
the system, and by internalizing a you felt, sustainable approach,
(30:01):
it sort of really does allow you to sort of
see that, you know, there's no profit to be made
as much as doing good.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
All right, Since we wrap up here, any big issues
you know, facing SMI members that you think we may
have missed or that we should keep an eye on.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I just think it's a really important thing that we
are really inclusive around the world. Like we're seeing huge
growth out of China, out of the Gulf, like huge
amounts of innovation happening, a huge amount of investment being made.
How do we leverage you know, the strengths of every
(30:39):
country around the world and come up with sort of
viable solutions that we're working hand in hand. Is very
difficult to address aviation just in Europe, Like that's not
going to help make the market work for everyone, right,
And so those are the kind of states. How do
we look at things at a more systems level, and
even the shipping industry like we're seeing say again, I
(31:00):
hate to go back, keep going back to AI, but
it's so transformative. You know, if China advances really solid
AI systems for shipping. What does that mean for other
ports around the world that don't have those systems in place.
So again, the opportunity for efficiencies to be gained in
the system in favor of transition can only work if
we're working in concert globally, and that's really one of
(31:21):
our mandags in the SMI is try to facilitate faster
learning across countries, across industries, across finance so that we
can see it as one market reality and one system
that we're trying to move together in concert. And that's
again where government's having a long term view of like
what the you know possible looks like, you know, in
(31:42):
twenty five years, by saying even twenty fifty, if we
want to pick that as a milestone, like what will
the world look like then? And then how, you know,
what's each of our responsibilities to try to achieve it?
And so that's that's really the work ahead for the SMI.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Great, well, thank you very much for your time today, Jennifer,
and you can for our listeners. You can find more
information and data on sustainable finance by going to biesg
go on the Bloomberg terminal. If you have any SG questions,
you would like bi's expert analysts to address, Please send
us an email at ESG Currents at Bloomberg dot net.
Thank you,
ESG is constantly evolving. Over the years. It is shifted
from socially responsible investing to impact to sustainable finance. While
the terminology continues to change, what hasn't changed are the
underlying science market pressures, tangible physical and financial impacts of
the climate crisis, as well as increasing regulatory scrutiny and
(00:22):
rising consumer expectations. We aim to filter out the noise
by speaking with industry experts to identify what is really
driving value. Welcome to ESG Currents, brought to you by
Bloomberg Intelligence.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hi, I'm Rob Yboff, Senior esc analyist, and I'm Gil Glazerman,
also senior ESG analyst, and we're your hosts for today's episode.
Twenty twenty five has seen a mark shift in both
the tone and discussion of commitments to sustainability around the world,
with many government's rethinking policy approaches. While some companies may
welcome regulatory relief, this doesn't change the ten realities a
(01:00):
cligmate change driving increasing physical risks which threatened businesses, or
social challenges which can manifest on the bottom line. Today
we are joined by Jennifer Jordan Safety, CEO of the
Sustainable Markets Initiative, an organization founded by His Majesty King
Charles the Third that seeks to rally the private sector
for sustainable transition, and we will discuss activating the private
(01:24):
sector to address sustainability challenges. Jennifer, thank you for joining
us today.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Just to start off, can you please tell us a
little bit about the history, goals and activities of the
Sustainable Markets Initiative.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Sure, as you mentioned, his Majesty King Charles the Third,
then Prince of Wales, established the Sustainable Markets Initiative or
SMI in twenty twenty at Davos. His fifty years of
experience of sustainability really led him to recognize that, you know,
if the world was to achieve the twenty thirty goals,
whether it's the SDGs or the Paris Climate Agreement or
(01:59):
the Convention of Biological Diversity, they were talking about moving
from billions to trillions to sort of make those goals realized,
and that the only way that we were going to
actually make that happen would be through convening and mobilizing
the global private sector. And that's really where it originated.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Is King Charles still actively involved, has the organization changed
a bit since his coronation.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I think remains as involved as ever. I think his
level of commitment has never wavered in terms of engaging
with the SMI. Obviously there's some shifts because he has
become king, there's constitutional realities, but you know, he still
convenes our CEO community, often behind closed doors, but also
(02:45):
at public events like our annual CEO Summit in London
in March.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
So the organization has been active for about five years.
I'm just wondering, can you talk about what you see
as some of its biggest accomplishments to date.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Yeah, I think it's it's been quite unique in terms
of how it was structured. So His Majesty's vision was
to bring together communities of CEOs around financial sectors and
real economy industries, so all around the world, some of
the world's largest multinational companies and really try to get
(03:19):
them on the same page with the direction of travel.
I think a lot of that has been achieved over
the past five years. Some of the biggest accomplishments is
really like how many of the companies have internalized a
default sustainable approach to their business models, really recognizing the
investment opportunity of transition thinking longer term, so the results
(03:42):
are being born out within the companies themselves, which is
really our approach rather than us being the doers ourselves.
It's really trying to mobilize those companies to keep striving
on their journey of transition towards those goals that sort
of collectively we're seeking to achieve.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I want to dig into that maybe in a little
bit more detail as we moved through their discussion. But
you mentioned twenty thirty, so five years in. What do
you see is the biggest challenges for the next five
years and to meet the kind of some of the
original accomplishments.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I mean, I think the reality is that the you
know that the world has changed, you know, the political
environment has shifted, especially this past year, and I think
global CEOs have had to understand, you know, what this
means for business, Like, is this a fundamental shift? Does
the investment in business case still remain? What's the long view,
(04:41):
what's the short view? And what we're going to keep
and what we're going to maybe leave behind and evolve.
But I think, you know, as we sort of stand today,
I think a lot of that uncertainty that we may
be experience at the beginning of the year is sort
of settling out, and you know, the investment in business
case does remain. I think how we talk about things
has shifted, and I think in many ways that's actually
(05:03):
quite helpful. We're able to be a little bit more
pragmatic than ideological, and as we move forward, like the
goals remain the same, like how do we transition aviation, shipping, buildings, health,
fashion in the right direction to achieve you know, ultimate sustainability.
I think about nature, people and planet and contribute to
global value creation in that process, so you're not losing
(05:24):
profit for more intangible goals. But I think maybe the
way we go about it, the way we communicate about it,
you know, it has has changed. And so I think
looking will had as being more strategic. It's thinking about,
you know, how governments and consumers and private sector actors align.
(05:45):
And also like looking at a lot of these issues
from a macro global perspective, recognizing that markets are deeply
interconnected and supply chains are deeply interconnected. So how are
we going to work more pragmatically together globally which will
be a big challenge for the next five years.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Yeah, I definitely want to dig in on that a
little bit more. Here in the US, there's been a
shift and how companies talk about sustainability. I think, you know,
we just had the cop COP thirty and this is
the first year the US has not even sent a delegation.
You know, is there a risk of that happening at
the global level? And you kind of mentioned already how
companies have shifted the way they're talking about some of
(06:22):
these sustainability activities. You know, do you see that trend
continuing permanently or do you think this is a temporary blip,
And you know, how does that compare to where we
were a few years ago?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
So I think, you know, a few years ago, you know,
there was much more unity and like everyone coming together
again with sort of a common vision around you know,
values and direction of travel. And so I think it
was maybe much more about communication than about delivery. And
I think now we've shifted into delivery, and so where
can delivery actually happen. The SMI is a really interesting
(06:59):
organization because we bridge the public sector and the private sector.
So we engage heavily bilaterally with countries and multilateral for
in other places. But we start with the private sector
first lens. And so that means that, you know, the
private sector should try to think about what are the
solutions to transition, what do they need from governments and
(07:19):
from regulation and sort of help formulate those recommendations because
they know their industries, they know the financial realities from
the private sector much stronger than government policy makers. So
putting those very concrete recommendations to governments in the right
juristic jurisdictions will actually help us you move faster and
start scaling around the world. So I think that's that's
(07:42):
changed a fair amount, just again the pragmatism around it
and then just again being more ideological and communicating ambition,
which was really helpful five years ago. But that communicating
ambition isn't enough anymore. Now, we need to see how
we're going to do it.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, and you know you mentioned that the private side.
So what do you see as the advantages of working
through the private sector as compared to working through governments.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
So the private sector tends to be a little bit
more efficient and again pragmatic, They can be faster, So
policy development, legislation, regulation can take years to advance. And
I think you know, when we listen to countries, particularly
in emerging and developing markets. You know, they've really struggled
with even accessing committed funds like climate funds to sort
(08:28):
of help them deliver their transition or resilience priorities in country.
The system moves extremely slowly, and if we are talking
we've got like less than five years left a twenty thirty.
How are we actually going to achieve those goals? So
the private sector can be faster. But the key thing
is that they need some space to sort of be
creative about the solutions and to crowd in around problem
(08:52):
statements or opportunities and say, okay, we need insurance here,
we need private equity here, We're going to need the
air force, the manufacturers and the airlines to actually work
towards scaling up sustainable aviation fuel. And they need to
think much more creatively than some just sitting back and
waiting for governments to identify a solution which might be
ten years down the road and could shift because of
(09:13):
political priorities as we've seen in the past five years.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
Yeah, and in June you released a private sector call
to action. Can you maybe for some of our listeners,
what is your pitch to the private sector, you know,
how do you get them, how do you get them
to buy into some of these goals and is there
anything in particular that resonates with them.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Yeah, So this really started again when the UK host
at the G seven and twenty twenty one. We also
were present at the G twenty in Rome the same year,
and obviously CAP twenty six was also had that same year,
so we had a huge amount of government momentum then.
But when we were thinking about how do we engage
with G seven governments, we recognize them we need to
(09:55):
be really specific and very clear what we need from
those G seven governments. So again, if it's a target
for sustainable aviation fuel, like do we need mandates to
get that done? This is the mandate target that we
would recommend. And I think at the time we were
looking at, you know, thirty percent by twenty thirty. I think,
you know, we're still struggling at you know, ten percent
by twenty thirty. And so we do a marked market
(10:17):
of that every single year, again industry by industry, issue
by issue, and say, you know, the private sector or
the SMI and the private sector continue to call on
governments to support you know, the ambition of a transition
to sustainable aviation fuel. This is sort of the percentage
that we recommend by this date, and this is where
we see each of the countries in terms of their
(10:37):
respective mandates and so how much room is there for
governments to act more proactively in concert with the private sector.
So we definitely find when we're presenting these recommendations that
when we have the industry and the finance behind it,
it makes them a much stronger argument to governments that
allows them permission to act in that direction. Because governments
(10:58):
are also looking for economic growth, and when they know
the economic growth might come, then that's when the private
sector and public sector can meet together. And that's really
the objective of that particular action plan.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
That makes a lot of sense. So what do you
think the private sector has gotten right about about the
transition to date? And what do you think maybe there's
been some misunderstandings or they've taken the wrong approach and
they've had to kind of go back on on certain initiatives.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I think, you know, the past five years has really
been about learning right, you know, how like where can
the private sector you know, have a voice? You know,
what kind of solutions can they identify. And I think
that's been a bit of a learning process, and you know,
things like science based targets and things like that, there
was a learning curve and all of that. And like
when we started in you know, twenty twenty, there might
have been one or two people and their sustainability units
(11:46):
and now, like you know, they've a lot of them
have hired like you know, huge numbers of people to
sort of make sure the company is on track with that.
I think where the private sector has gotten a little
bit confused is with all of the regulation and reporting
requirements to try to demonstrate that they are genuinely doing
the right thing, and I think that some of that
(12:07):
is being scaled back in the SMI I think what
we're trying to encourage is, like we recognize it's a
learning process, is to journey. Every company's starting at a
different point, but you know, we definitely feel that we
can move faster together. So when an entire industry is
sort of pointed in this common direction and it's sort
of sharing lessons learned, they definitely can lead leap frog
(12:28):
off of each other and move faster. And it also
helps the financing communities to sort of understand you know,
where the investment opportunity is going to lie in the
next five, ten, fifteen years.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I'm just wondering. You mentioned obviously the environment no pun
intended has changed in twenty twenty five, and I'm just wondering,
do you think that's affecting what companies are saying or
do you also see it impacting what they're doing.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I've been actually, you know, sort of pleasantly surprised, is that,
you know, at first it was, you know, a fear
of walking back completely. I have to say, like that
was definitely early in the year. There were some concerns
that people were just going to walk away from the agenda,
and I think we heard a little bit of that
concern at New York Climate Week and I think most
recently at cop But in reality, we are seeing most
(13:19):
of the companies just you know, recognizing that, you know,
it makes business sense, Like the investment case is there,
the energy transition evidence is there. So I think we've
already hit the tipping point out energy. Definitely, we have
an energy supply problem around the world and a grid
capacity problem around the world, and we're going to need
(13:40):
to work towards that. And I think in different markets.
There's going to be a different type of energy mix
as we transition, But if we do want to make
a full transition, you know, away from fossil fuels over time,
we have to help those companies. And the SMI has
always been sort of a big tent recognizing that we
need to be inclusive of all of these energy solutions.
So I see that everyone is trying to make their
(14:02):
best effort. They see sort of the writing on the wall,
and then we see that all around the world where
you know, the energy future will be greener, and the
energy future impacts every other industry, and so there's a
huge amount of focus now on energy, which I think
is correct because with greener energy, we can then transition
(14:23):
all of the other industries in line with that effort.
So I definitely think that they are on track and
you know, still committed, but the language being used is
much more commercially aligned than it was maybe ideologically five
years ago.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And going back, Rob asked what the private sector is
doing well? And I guess, flipping it, where have you
seen governments particularly effective at activating the private sector to
to support these solutions? Anything in specific, any policy in
particular that you think has worked and been particularly effective.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
So the private sector like certainty, and I'm sure we
all know that, but long term certainty, and I think
that we've really done the private sector of disservice when
there was a lot of goodwill five years ago, and
then you governments have been walking back their targets. So
what was really effective or what has been really effective
(15:18):
is ev mandates for example, and knowing you know what's coming,
then the industry adapts to that, and then finance also
adapts with the alternative. And when we walk that back,
they're on certain like so the investment stops, the production stops,
and like that's not helpful. So you know, from the
private sector standpoint, what we are asking governments to do
is think much more long term. We're talking like minimum ten,
(15:41):
like fifteen, twenty thirty years out and ensure that you're
consistent with those market signals so the private sector can
align itself to deliver those goals. And again, if we're
talking about trillions for transition and you're talking about economic growth,
new jobs, you know, unlocking the potential of innovation through AI,
we have to get aligned for our longer term future
(16:03):
than sort of political cycles and that that sort of
been to the detriment of the private sector's efforts to date.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I think in that context you're surprised that maybe not
members of the Sustainable Markets Initiative, that overall the private
sector seems to be pushing for some of these rollbacks
that we're seeing from the governments, even in market, even
in regions like Europe, which has been amongst the most supportive.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I can at the moment think of any specific examples
of you know, where that's exactly happening. But I think
when private sector feels over regulated, then that there's definitely
pushback on that because many companies have been spending you know,
millions and millions of dollars on reporting rather than investing
(16:46):
that money in the transition of their own companies and
supply chains, right, and so again, like when it's a
cost benefit situation, we're not seeing much benefit from the reporting,
you know, then it comes into question. So I have
seen that kind of pushback, But overall, I think, you know,
industries are looking for government support to help them transition
so that they can align the finance and there's no
(17:06):
finance or capital issue, like there's an abundance of finance
and capital available in the world, even for emerging and
developing markets, but the government systems need to align to
enable that. And so for example, like an emerging and
developing economies like there are real risk issues, whether it's
political risk or FX risks that private sector alone can't
(17:27):
take all those risks, and so what is the role
then of governments multilateral institutions to help cover some of
that risk So the rest of the role can come
and transition alongside the developed world.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Great shifting gears a little bit. You know, one of
the more interesting conversations this here has been you just
mentioned finance, but financing adaptation versus mitigation. You know, you
recently saw Bill Gates saying, you know, maybe we shouldn't
put all the eggs in the basket of mitigating, but
also thinking about adaptation. Have you seen this from some
(18:00):
of the SMI members as well, you know, rethinking maybe adaptation.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Yeah. I think at least in the SMY we've always
had that mindset of adaptation and mitigation and you know,
holistic in terms of biodiversity and nature based solutions alongside
commercial and industrial solutions. So I think we've always had
that mindset. But I definitely see a growing interest in
that space of adaptation, and I think we have to
(18:30):
sort of now face the reality, you know, we've already
surpassed one point five degrees. We're going to need to
adapt to the you know, the warming environment, and you know,
really think about, you know, what does that actually mean.
And I think an interesting conversation sort of comes in
around things like insurance and you know, premiums and things
like that, you know, financing for you know, less resilient infrastructure,
(18:55):
and you know, what are we going to do in
terms of that adaptation and what does that mean for
industry transition. So definitely it's a huge conversation that you know,
maybe started in emerging and developing markets, but it is
definitely something that is everyone's radar now. So definitely a shift,
i'd say, but one that I think the private sector
really has some solutions for.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
And I briefly mentioned the Private Sector Call to Action
and there are I believe twenty five recommendations in there.
You know, as we look into twenty twenty six, you know,
are there any that that you know, you think are
key in the shorter term?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I think as we look into twenty twenty six, it's
really you know, not just asking the private sector to
you know, stay the course. It's asking governments to stay
the course, and as we said before, is like really
encouraging governments to provide those longer term market signals that
you know, business and finance need to sort of make
the right investments into the transition across all sectors. I
(19:56):
think we also need to be thinking really smartly about
you know, AI, advanced technologies, the use of space, space,
space services data. Like, a lot of this is hugely
transformative and scaling at a pace that many industries are
even underestimating. And so I think as we go into
twenty twenty six, a lot of those recommendations apply both
(20:16):
to the private sector and the public sector, and like,
how are we going to when both are moving at
different speeds, align those for highest impact for the sake
of humanity?
Speaker 4 (20:26):
And are you more or less optimistic about the prospects
for any of these since the collisition in June? You
mentioned AI the pace of that, but any other pacing
that surprised you.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I think that the solutions again, like I think largely
coming out of AI is just recognized and just how
quickly things can move and how quickly Marcus can be
disrupted by some of these emerging technologies. So whether that's
nuclear fusion, which people really thought, you know, in many
of my conversations even today, you know, people still think
as decades away and actually sort of on par with SMRs.
(20:59):
So I think that I think what we're going to
see some surprises in terms of the technical technological solutions
that are available to us that are sort of emerging
out of that space, and so the transition may become
much more possible at a faster pace because of these
enabling technologies.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
And then one thing we've discussed quite a bit recently
in this kind of dovetailed nicely with the AI is
that you know, there's been a lot of deregulatory actions,
particularly around the power sector, and how some of these
actions can have unintended consequences in some cases that actually
supports some of the sustainability goals by cutting through the
red tape. Would you agree, Are there any examples of
(21:37):
this in your work?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Yeah, for sure. I think one of the biggest issues
that we sort of included in that action plan for
the past four years has really been the issue of permitting,
because permitting times, you know, don't align with the time
prints we're talking about to twenty thirty. If it takes
seven to twelve years to build a wind farm or
solar firm and get a permit to sort of do so, again,
(21:59):
the investment, we'll just move on to somewhere else where
it's easier to get done. And so I think this
is one of the key things that you know, we
really hope that we can align on.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
And you mentioned in your view there's really no shortage
of capital. Do you feel that it's going to the
right places currently or where would you like to see
more of that capital flowing over the next year.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So I definitely think it's flowing relatively while in the
developed markets it's still that emerging and developing markets where
we're seeing you know, a lot less of that capital flowing.
But again it's all related to the risk factors that
the capital faces. So it's an area that we're working
heavily on where we're going to be convening in a
couple of weeks time with many of the heads of
(22:40):
the MDBs with the financial sector to try to, you know,
keep pushing that door on how do we identify these solutions?
And I think we're also saying to the private sector,
you know, whether can we get creative with insurance, Like
how can insurance help enable capital to flow you know,
private sector to private sector, you know, with industry partners
rather than having to sort of rely on public sector support.
(23:02):
But the reality is currently is that, you know that
public sector support can be hugely helpful to getting deals
done relatively quickly. So that's where I really see the opportunity.
I think we're seeing a lot of investment into AI,
which I think then is a knock on effect into
energy and this idea of energy abundance and the need
for energy, and then that then goes to grids. So
(23:23):
there's sort of like this domino effect that sort of
happens across you know, all industries basically in all around
the world. And so like, as we pursue more AI,
we're going to need more data centers, which needs more energy.
How do we do that you know in a in
a sort of green way or an energy a clean
energy way. And I think those solutions will then help
(23:45):
lead to you know, fafter deployment of other solutions across
the board and other investments. If we look at how
AI is being financed, you know, other industry and technological
solutions or not you know, finance in the same way.
So like, how do we get the same type of
excitement about you know, fusion as we're seeing about AI
(24:08):
right So AI is easier to find finance right now,
and say fusion is more difficult. So, you know, how
can we make it easier to achieve some of these
energy solutions or industry solutions by getting you know, off
takers and other people that can help secure the finance
at the scale required globally.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
That's really interesting, And we've talked about a lot of
just the broader kind of sustainability e SG pushback, and
I'm just wondering in that context, when you speak to
your members, do you see a shift in how they
look at the balance between environmental and social initiatives? And
obviously a lot of your call to action is based
(24:48):
on the transition in the environment, But do you feel
that there's been equal retained commitment to both kind of
environmental social Do you see the balance shifting at all?
U or is the approach to social shifting and all?
Do you have any sense of that from your interactions?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
So I see a shift in terms of thinking about
skills development, thinking about employee retention because you know, many
employees still very much care about you know, environments, climate, nature,
So it's a retention issue for many companies. But it's
also that sort of employment side, and increasingly we're hearing
(25:30):
conversations around well being. So in the countries where people
are operating, you know, what are the health impacts? You know,
so we're talking about climate, we're talking about you know,
emissions and things like that. You know, what are the
health impacts around the world in different countries. So I
think that there's there's still a huge awareness of that
(25:52):
social component. I think different companies are looking at it
slightly differently. But again in the SMI like, we absolutely
to make sure that you know, the people part, and
so we've got we say nature, people plan it. You know,
it's really also at the center because everything we're doing
is for our you know, current of future generations and
(26:13):
where we're looking at the impact this has on populations.
So the other angle I think that a lot of
companies are thinking about when I particularly talk to governments
about the benefits of transition, again is sort of that
economic growth that jobs agenda, So as as the private
sector talks to governments and tries to align on these
market signals. You know, it's really important that we recognize
(26:33):
that what what are the issues governments are trying to solve.
It is you know, economic growth, It is you know
jobs and employment and skills and upskilling away from traditional
industries into new tradition, new future oriented industries, and so
that sort of skills gap is a real issue and
the private sector has to contribute to that. So I
think many of them understand and they are working to
(26:56):
solve that problem too.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, that's interesting, I know, for since we'll have the
focus on nuclear power to run the data centers, that
there's a real lack pretty much everywhere on the engineers
and labor to both build as well as operate those sites.
So we've touched on this off and on a few times,
but just to kind of come back to it, that's
(27:19):
one of my favorite areas, just the importance and linking
of sustainability and business strategy. I think at one time
you even referred to that as the growth story of
our time, and I'm just wondering if you can unpack
that a bit and maybe your sense do companies believe
that more today than they might have five years ago?
When you were launching this journey, and are there any
(27:40):
specific examples where maybe a somewhat reluctant company you were
talking to five years ago, you know, has found opportunities
that they might not have anticipated on the business side
from pursuing this.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, I guess we just think about, you know, trying
to not look at client I'm at action as a
negative or like what we see a lot of doom
and gloom in that narrative is that you know, maybe
there's nothing that we can do as you know, global society,
(28:14):
and so we try to flip it as a genuine
economic opportunity. And we also see you know, countries around
the world struggling, and so if we focus on the
opportunity of it, then you know, we definitely see this
as the growth story of our time. Like we're creating
entirely new markets with new technologies that weren't even available
five years ago, even like the AI conversation. We wouldn't
have had this conversation five years ago. So how are
(28:35):
these things going to transform every single industry in every
single country on the planet. It's going to be transformative.
And already, like I mean again, we have the terra
Karta which is ourt of earth based industries, and we
have the Astra Karta which is space based industries. And
already now we see this huge intersection between space based
and earth based industries, including things like pharmaceuticals and health
(28:56):
as well as like just the day to day realities
of you know, GPS, you know, managing our our you know,
transportation systems and satellites now being able to sort of
monitor better, you know, earth based realities, shipping methane, a
whole bunch of different areas where you now we can
have the data and the AI is now enabling us
to analyze that data in a way that is meaningful
(29:18):
from a commercial standpoints, now becoming material and so as
we advance those types of opportunities, there's definitely a business case, uh,
to seize you know, what we call the growth story
of our time. And so I definitely see businesses have
you know, very much recognized that now and internalize that,
(29:40):
and you know, many of them are seeing opportunity including
how they help their clients, you know, on that journey
of transition, so you know, how they can help sort
of you know, all of their you know, a supply
chain transition. So there's a huge amount of opportunity across
the system, and by internalizing a you felt, sustainable approach,
(30:01):
it sort of really does allow you to sort of
see that, you know, there's no profit to be made
as much as doing good.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
All right, Since we wrap up here, any big issues
you know, facing SMI members that you think we may
have missed or that we should keep an eye on.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I just think it's a really important thing that we
are really inclusive around the world. Like we're seeing huge
growth out of China, out of the Gulf, like huge
amounts of innovation happening, a huge amount of investment being made.
How do we leverage you know, the strengths of every
(30:39):
country around the world and come up with sort of
viable solutions that we're working hand in hand. Is very
difficult to address aviation just in Europe, Like that's not
going to help make the market work for everyone, right,
And so those are the kind of states. How do
we look at things at a more systems level, and
even the shipping industry like we're seeing say again, I
(31:00):
hate to go back, keep going back to AI, but
it's so transformative. You know, if China advances really solid
AI systems for shipping. What does that mean for other
ports around the world that don't have those systems in place.
So again, the opportunity for efficiencies to be gained in
the system in favor of transition can only work if
we're working in concert globally, and that's really one of
(31:21):
our mandags in the SMI is try to facilitate faster
learning across countries, across industries, across finance so that we
can see it as one market reality and one system
that we're trying to move together in concert. And that's
again where government's having a long term view of like
what the you know possible looks like, you know, in
(31:42):
twenty five years, by saying even twenty fifty, if we
want to pick that as a milestone, like what will
the world look like then? And then how, you know,
what's each of our responsibilities to try to achieve it?
And so that's that's really the work ahead for the SMI.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
Great, well, thank you very much for your time today, Jennifer,
and you can for our listeners. You can find more
information and data on sustainable finance by going to biesg
go on the Bloomberg terminal. If you have any SG questions,
you would like bi's expert analysts to address, Please send
us an email at ESG Currents at Bloomberg dot net.
Thank you,
Host
Eric Kane
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