March 29, 2022 • 32 mins
Last week we spoke to Longshoreman Nicole Salima and truck driver Armando Pacheco, who are both essential workers in the global supply chain. This week we will be in conversation with Mayor Robert Garcia of Long Beach and Wall Street Journal journalist Christopher Mims, to learn more about the larger world that both Nicole and Armando participate within, how the pandemic has affected the global supply chain and how we support the folx behind the wheels and at the ports. Part Two of a Two part series.
Learn more about Arriving Today: https://www.amazon.com/Arriving-Today-Factory-Everything-Changed/dp/006298795X
Learn more about Chain Reaction (WSJ documentary): https://www.wsj.com/video/series/chain-reaction/why-global-supply-chains-may-never-be-the-same-a-wsj-documentary/4EFE56B6-8A1D-4478-9F88-8F055AFBF675
Episode Transcript: https://app.trint.com/public/cbc50487-b07a-4538-a2c2-f0576c5d58e5
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, mr Hey wilmur So. It's spring and it's beautiful
and it's time for essential voices. That's right. So last
week we spoke to Nicole Salima and Armando Pacheco, who
are two invaluable links in the global supply chain, and
they are also two invaluable members of my family. It
was a pleasure to have them join the mix, and
(00:23):
after speaking to them, I definitely want to learn more
about the rest of the chain. So who do we
have this weekend? Are this week we're talking to Mayor
Robert Garcia and journalist Christopher Mims. Mayor Garcia is the
mayor of Long Beach, California. We're Nicole works at the port.
Christopher Mims writes for the Wall Street Journal and wrote
a book about the global supply chain called Arriving Today,
(00:46):
and both know the ins and outs of a system
that touches all of us but remains fairly quiet for
most of us until it breaks down. In the spirit
of keeping things moving, let's get started. Mayor Garcia, it's
a pleasure having you. Thank you Christopher for being here too.
It's a pleasure having you here. This is a unique conversation.
(01:08):
It's one that a lot of people never really thought
about when they were getting their products and when they
were getting their things delivered, and when they magically felt
like they have an instant card here and all of
a sudden the groceries just showed up. They really didn't
know that this stuff was being driven by people that
were driving through the empty streets. And you know this
scary you know, post ourcallaptive vision. So where everyone at
(01:29):
the stay at homeowners and all that, And as we
evolved and developed, we realize how important they were. So
I love to dive in real quick for both of you.
What are your reactions to Nicole and our mind of stories.
Maybe we'll start with you mayor Garcia. Yeah, I mean
I think both Nicole and Armando and we're sharing a
real American story right now the world experiencing when you
see across the country essential workers have always been doing
(01:49):
the work and always been struggling doing that work. Almost
always is your workers that are not paid enough that
some are working under for labor standards. Is your workers
that don't have the luxury of taking days off for
having paid sick days all the time. And so this
last couple of years, and really I think showing the
country that these folks are much more indispensable than they
than they thought. So I think a lot of us
(02:11):
obviously have known how important that work is. I think
about what Nicole said about the ports of forty percent
of America's goods coming out of Long Beach in l A.
Thet of trade in and out of those just those
two ports alone, and so they keep that economy going.
What the long shore workers did at that port was heroic.
I it's heroic all the time, but especially during that
(02:32):
moment when there was so much uncertainty. And by the way,
we had long shore workers that that died of COVID
nineteen that were on the docks. We had long shore
workers that were working not knowing if they were gonna
get vaccinated. We were debating, I mean the state in
the federal government about trying to get vaccines down to
get long shore workers priority for vaccinations. So they are
beyond essential. And I think, you know, oftentimes we are
(02:55):
now calling these workers, you know, heroes in some cases,
and they are. I think now it's not to all
of us to recognize that if if we're going to
call these workers essentials and sential line heroes, that we
also have to pay them what they deserve at the workplace.
Thank you, married, and what about for you, Christopher. Both
Nicole and Armando stories, you know, reflect the stories that
I've heard from many other workers in their position, both
(03:17):
in ports and driving trucks. So I don't think that
they're at all out of the ordinary, unfortunately, And I
thought it was really poignant when Armando said, you know,
suddenly we were treated as heroes. I hope that people
don't forget this moment and what they've learned. And I
think that, you know, we're at a unique time where
(03:37):
workers who are in certain roles before I think they
were really invisible, especially in supply chain, you know, people
who get us the stuff that we absolutely rely on
to live every day. My experience writing a book about
this has been you know, when people read it, they
just say, oh my god, I had no idea, and
it's like, yeah, nobody talks about this. It's like the
least sexy part of the economy but also the most essential,
(03:57):
So that to me is kind of baffling. So, you know,
I hope that people continue to educate themselves about the
lives of these kinds of workers, and you know, frankly,
I think that we're all going to have to because
a lot of the disruptions we saw during the pandemic
that's not over. I mean, you know, a million Americans
(04:18):
almost died of COVID. One estimate I've seen is that
another one point seven million Americans may have been taken
out of the workforce by long COVID. Then you think
about the disruptions to childcare, the number of women who
have been taken out of the workforce as a result.
You think about you know, previous administration's policies on immigration
and how many millions of workers were not added to
(04:40):
our economy as a result. So you know, we're at
full employment right now more or less, and a lot
of these jobs it is hard for employers to hire
workers into them, which means I think we're going to
continue to have disruptions to being able to get the
goods that we rely on, and they're gonna get more expensive.
And that is all down too, you know, if there
(05:01):
are enough workers in these roles or not, and how
are they being treated, because that affects how long they
stay in these roles. Yeah, totally. I mean I think
that also kind of points to what Nicole was saying,
which we'll talk about a little bit later, but about
automation and kind of where we're headed, and the fact
that you know, she's bringing up the fact that she
feels it will kind of collapse our economy, which is
(05:22):
a big statement, but I definitely think there's truth to
what she's saying there in that fear. And Christopher, I
want to go back for a second to what you
said because I kind of chuckled where you were saying
that the supply chain is the least sexy part of
the economy, Right. I think that's a really good way
to put it, because you're right that people, for many
of us, it's sort of invisible, this invisible entity that
(05:43):
exists and we don't think about it. And it's kind
of a big question. But I'm wondering if you can
give us a little bit of a summary of how
these goods are shipped and transported. Yeah. I mean, it's
such a long story that I ended up writing a
three inter page book on it. But bottom line is, it's,
like you know, most good finished goods are made in Asia.
(06:03):
So to give you the real, real thumbnail version of it,
it's this fourteen thousand mile journey. You know, it starts
with a factory somewhere in Asia or Southeast Asia. You know,
goods are put onto a container ship. You know, they
travel all the way across Pacific, which can take a month,
you know, and then they go to a port like
Long Beach, you know where Mary Garcia and the longshoreman
(06:24):
whom we heard from, you know, have dominion. And you know,
that's just the beginning of the domestic journey, which is
hugely complicated because those goods have to get out of
the port. They gotta get truck to a warehouse, transferred
to a long haul truck, then they go to a
fulfillment center. If it's e commerce, then they're broken down
into the individual packages, which gets delivered to our house,
goes to a sorting center, then it goes to a
(06:45):
delivery station, then it gets on a UPS truck or
a you know USPS van, then it gets delivered to
your house. And I mean that is the most superficial
version of that journey I can give you. It's unbelievable.
Any one item that you order online, you know, dozens
a hundred people touched it, untold machines, tens of thousands
(07:06):
of miles, So every one of those journeys is kind
of a minor miracle of our modern economy. I mean,
you just said dozens or a hundred people have touched
the one item. It's like, we don't we don't think
about that, those invisible hands that are getting us the
things that we take for granted every day. And for you,
Mary Garcia, what is the port of l A and
(07:27):
Long Beaches role in this supply chain? Like, once the
items get there, what's kind of the role there? I mean,
most American ports operate in the same way where there's
terminal operators. Oftentimes, these large terminal operators are owned by
large conglomerates, international conglomerates, shipping companies, and the ports are
there to help facilitate essentially operate the land as landlords.
(07:48):
And these operating companies then have agreements with a variety
of the targets of the world and the groceries of
the world, roles as ports and the cities. You know,
we want to make sure that first and foremost, we
have authority to make sure the people that are on
these sites are treated well, are respected. We're suring that
wages are fair. We're also making sure that we have
good operators, and we're trying to push bigger policies. So
(08:09):
we're trying to push whether it's terminal operators, whether it's
truck driving companies to have tougher and better, cleaner steams.
Making sure that we're focused on infrastructure. Infrastructure is a
big part of the port authorities do, which is we're
building out the infrastructures that these large companies are able
to come in and move good faster. Right now, for example,
there's a lot of conversation about infrastructure reports that investment
(08:31):
is critical to the supply gene and a lot of
the work that the coal and others are doing at
these ports is dependent on federal intervention and federal resources
to do the massive project from the rich rail projects,
whether it's making sure that your drudgies at the ships
and committing out of the ports. Our role is really
about infrastructure and about making sure that we've got good
operators at the ports. We'll be right back after this break,
(08:56):
Welcome back to Essential Voices. It's really impressive when you
describe the chain of events right and then mayor when
you explain the role you know, I hope that people
right now as they're listening, they're going like, oh, my lord,
like I had zero idea how much I need to appreciate.
But most importantly, be conscious when something gets late to
(09:19):
your house instead of calling, complain about it and be
like something went off, you know, in the hundred hands
that touched this, but Mergarcia you kind of pivoted into
that and understanding the road and most only the journey
that Long Beach became obviously the model for the vaccine
rollout early on. Can you walk us through what you
did for the community of Long Beach and more specifically
(09:40):
for duck workers like Nicole. Yeah, I mean, I'm really
proud of the response we had in Long Beaches released
to the vaccine rollout. I mean, we were the first
city to vaccinate teachers, the first city to actually seniors
and people disabilities, first entire city of California, and we
honestly on release the dock workers, we pushed so hard
and then the rules that we got doc brokers of accinated,
(10:02):
probably before we were supposed to, but we knew how
important it was to to the economy. What what happened
in the greater like Los Angeles area with the vaccine Honestly,
it's hard to describe because all of the failures in
the system that happened across the region in the state,
but essentially what causes the issues, and I think what
we did better than most was as vaccines were coming
(10:22):
in across the country in that first production cycle, governments
and fens of the state, we're telling cities and municipalities
to essentially put aside both doses. And so what they
were saying is like, give folks their first doses of vaccine,
but then put aside half of what you're getting, so
that that second dose is reserved for when they get
(10:42):
their second dose many weeks later. So what that was
causing was massive shortages of folks who needed the vaccine immediately.
What we did, and honestly, the state was not a
fan of, but it actually ended up working out for us,
is we made the decision early on. I said, we
have with the team, you know, all this vaccine. Why
would we save half of it for many many weeks
(11:03):
we should get rid of until we run out. Let's
get as many people of vaccine as possible. And I'd
rather have people have their first dose than some folks
waiting around a little bit longer maybe for their second dose.
That enabled us then to vaccinate teachers early and enabled
us to give them what was supposed to be the
second dose for other folks to dock workers, getting them
(11:24):
their first dose. And so we were able to just
to move a lot faster than the system because we
used that second dose that we're supposed to hold onto
for weeks. Within a couple of months, the state transitioned
and then we all began doing what we were already
doing in the city, which helped. But it relates to
doc workers. They weren't even considered on that top list,
(11:45):
if you remember the list, at least the way it
came out in California. At most states, first you have
to actually people there are sixty five and over. Then
after sixty five and over you get you can batch
actually some essential workers what the government told you was essential,
but not everyone in that group. And so you have,
for example, bus drivers, transit workers, we're getting people to
(12:05):
and from work that we're not in that group. You
had dock workers who are trying to move goods in
and out of the country. We're not in that first group.
And so I think that if the cities and counties
and jurisdictions that kind of threw the rules out the
window and just started vaccinating as many essential workers as
possible were the ones that got ahead of the vaccination processing.
And that's what we did. We were the first sport
(12:26):
to start vaccinating dock workers in the entire country. And
you should have seen the dock workers and the leadership,
particularly the dock Workers Union, could not have been more
grateful because they were seeing the bros and sisters die
at the port of COVID. I mean, that's just incredible.
I had no idea. So it sounds like you all
did incredible work. I think your approach to being like, wait,
(12:46):
why are we saving this second part of the vaccine.
Let's get as many people vaccinated with at least one
dose as possible sounds like a really good plan at
a time where like nobody really knew what the best
practices were. So it sounds like you were all really
loud on your feet and did the best you could
to make sure that these essential dock workers were protected
and especially working through really difficult conditions like both Armando
(13:09):
and Nicole outlined for us. I mean Armando was talking
about how there wasn't anywhere for him and his fellow
truckers to go the bathroom. And that's just one of
many things that you know, we've been hearing from essential
workers under very unfair labor practices for the last couple
of years. And Christopher, I'm I'm wondering, you know, hearing
some of the things that Armando outlined, these difficult conditions
(13:30):
and sort of how truckers maybe we're we're valued in
some states and maybe not as much in other states.
Wondering how kind of these difficult conditions relate to rates
of burnout and turnover and retention. Yeah, so, I mean
the American Trucking Association, which is a lobbying body which
mostly just represents large trucking companies, which are not the
(13:53):
majority of the freight that's moved by truck in America.
So that's an important caveat. But the a t A
says America is going to have a huge trucker shortage.
You know, we're gonna be short hundreds of thousands of
truckers within a few years. And they're not wrong. I
think some of their proposed solutions are misguided because the
real problem is people don't stay in trucking, especially new
(14:14):
young truckers. They tend to get in they burn out
really quickly, you know, and some of the reasons are
the ones that you know Armando outlined. I mean, we
have a really basic shortage of, for example, places for
truckers to sleep in America. You would think that this
would be treated as a national crisis because you know,
maybe the FEDS will get involved, you know, maybe it
would have been part of the infrastructure bill. It wasn't
(14:36):
in there. It really baffles me, even at the national level,
I feel like the real interest of most truckers has
almost no representation. It's really should be a national scandal.
I think. You know, there are other challenges that have
to do with, you know, how the industry is regulated.
But the bottom line is, you know, truckers in America
(14:57):
today they get paid by the mile. If they're not moving,
they're not gonna paid. That's a real challenge for them
because you know, they spend a lot of time being
idle at warehouses and other spots where they have no
control over how long they're there, and they're not getting
paid for that time. And yet we are moving more
free by truck than ever, so we are really putting
you know, these huge demands on the industry, and we're
(15:19):
trying to pull more and more people into it, but
there's not enough attention paid to is this a sustainable job?
Is it being organized? Is the work being organized in
a way where people who you know, have families who
want to spend time with those families can stay in
these jobs. I mean, that's why the trucking workforce keeps
getting older, right, because it's only these really good, hate
(15:40):
to say a grizzled veterans who are really dedicated to it,
are willing to spend all that time on the road,
you know, twenty one days out of every month on average,
you know, fourteen hour days. It's a very hard life.
Some of them are compensated accordingly, but it is very
hard to get people to stick with that job. But
we also have that most truck drivers, by the way,
are not represented or our employees. The vast majority of truckers,
(16:03):
particularly here on the West Coast, are individual operators, basically
small business owners. So if you can imagine in the
Port long between, get maybe fifteen thousand individual truck drivers
that have maybe owned one truck or two trucks are
they own their own truck and they have no working protections,
they have no label, there's no real labor standards for
most of these folks, which is why you know, our
organizations like the Teamsters and others are trying to organize
(16:25):
truck drivers and actually classify them as employees of these
larger corporations, because when many of these guys are going out,
they're getting a truck and they're in debt for the truck,
they're never being able to pay off the truck, and
then they're working these long hours, they're tired, they have
no benefits. The trucking crisis in this country is not
(16:45):
just one of there being enough infrastructure, which I think
Christophers absolutely correct. It's also one of representation. They're misclassified
as these individual operators where they really should need the
protections of unions, which they meant most of them actually support.
And that's the other big part of the trucking crisis
is they're not organized enough under these larger groups and
(17:05):
protect them with benefits and mayor to pick it back
on what you're saying, the only thing that people are
not accounting for is that you talked about the depth.
Right They go, Okay, maybe this is a good business,
I'll buy a truck or two trucks and then make
the pavements a month. But while I'm doing that, I'm
putting in the hours in a truck paste for itself
in quotes, right, And then they get into a situation
where they're like, you know what, I have to join
a big company. And what people don't understand the companies
(17:27):
like a FedEx, like an Amazon. Right, all of these
companies go to all these privately owned trucks, they stick
the Amazon and the FedEx label on it, right, and
it looks like they're a company, you know, delivery truck.
But really these are privately owned by individuals who now
are embedded to not only work for this system, but
(17:50):
they now have to inherit it. Certain regulations that are illogical.
They're illogical. The people that are actually computing how many
hours it should take to drive for one place to another,
how long does it take to load a truck into
actually take the goods off the truck and into either
at home or a business, don't drive trucks. I mean literally,
(18:11):
they're doing it by math. They think that okay, it
should take a person no more than ten minutes to
load a package of this many pounds but then there
is warehouse and company regulations that says you're only allowed
to have one box per dolly. You can't have two
or three boxes in there. So now you're eating up
the time that you're supposed to be using to load
up your trucks, so then you can leave on time.
(18:33):
And then you know, obviously they tell you, you know,
and Christopher brought it up that I thought it was
beautiful that you you brought this up where they sleep,
because as soon as that truck tells you you gotta
pull up regulations, they have to pull up in the
middle of a freeway. And when you see all those
Mac trucks and the where were you know, Armando spoke
about it so beautifully, you know, like there is a
(18:54):
line of trucks that are randomly parked on the freeway
and people are like, why are these trucks doing here
in the freeway? They're also to be saying it, well,
if they don't stop the truck when they're supposed to
wherever there possibly are, they get penalized and they get
marked up for you know, deligence. So there's just so
much about the system itself that sets them up for
failure that I just think it contributes to the burnout rate.
(19:17):
At that point, it's just like, how am I sustainable?
How am I like now? At this point, then one
of those companies go, look, we can pay you a
servants and we'll keep your truck. That's exactly what happens.
I just one last thing that was I think it's
really important. These large corporations, the Amazon's, the larger companies,
they basically hire other quote unquote companies that are trucking companies.
(19:40):
Then these trucking companies signed contracts with these individual independent
drivers that basically the treat of like an employee, but
all the responsibility and all of the liability is on
the right and so they so they actually are employees.
They're misclassified naturally at the end of the day. And
these truck drivers are saying, we own all the liability,
(20:03):
none of the benefits. We can't actually increase our pay
We're stuck paying payments. And this company essially controls the
entire fleet. It is one of the big injustices in
this country right now. Is what's happening to truck drivers
and the industry. And when you have these truck drivers
that are essentially coming home with almost no pay and
start these payments. It's something that has to change this country.
(20:27):
We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to
essential voices. We hear about what's going on and how
insidious these labor practices are and the fact that there
aren't any Armando was talking to us apart in his
story that we didn't hear about women truck drivers getting
U t i s because they don't have a place
to go to the bathroom. That's another thing that these
(20:48):
companies aren't liable for his health issues that may have
come up during these long routes where people don't have
a place to go to the bathroom. And it's just
having these really strong unions that exists. I know that
the Long Sherman Union is one of the strongest ever,
and it's great that those kinds of resources exist, but
it's not enough. And it does make me think a
(21:08):
lot about kind of the role that the pandemic has
had in all of this, because obviously these issues were
occurring before the pandemic, but have gotten exacerbated in the
last couple of years. And I'm wondering specifically with the
pandemic for folks who may not be exactly super aware
what caused this breakdown and could it have been like
(21:30):
what could have happened differently. So many people came to work,
so many people risk their lives to make sure that,
you know, all of us had groceries. So they're all
to be commended. A big part of the issues was
just that we had record demand, people staying home, people
not going on vacation, not going out to eat, you know,
spending money shopping online or whatever. So part of this
(21:54):
was just that the whole way that people consume in
America just changed. And you know, some of that change
is gonna be permanent. So this this world that we
have now where there are challenges with supply chains and
there's just a record demand for goods to be delivered,
you know, all the way to your front door, not
just to the local store. That is that's forever. That's
(22:16):
just going to continue. And speaking of change, Nichole spook
about the increase of automation at the ports around the country.
Do you see a similar transformation happening in l A
and Long Beach? Mayored and uh and Christopher, what are
the pros and cons of this automation? I mean, we
talked about at the beginning specifically at the fact that
you know, this was they were flirting with automation before
(22:38):
the pandemic, and everyone's like, this is going to take
people's jobs, you know, and then the pandemic happens, and
then it becomes very hard to hire personnel, you know,
and to find individuals. So it almost feels like this
is going to be a situation or a conversation that's
going to fast tracked because it is going to be
very hard to multiply, not just to hands on deck,
but really automated. The solution ends for the crisis we
(23:01):
have in some of this demand may or how do
you see that? In Christopher, if you can follow that
question with the pros and cons of automation, there is
automations already exists in the ports of longaging, name Los Angeles,
and when those terminals kind of switched to the automated systems,
a lot of it was driven by certainly the interests
of the companies to have less overhead for the workers,
(23:22):
there's no question about that, but also driven by trying
to have sustainable electric vehicles and you know, and which
is often times what's used as the reasons the automy things, right,
it's climate change issues. If those the truth is, I
think that looking back what's happened with automation, particularly the
port of Loanage in Los Angeles, those projects aren't producing
or working any harder or producing dramatically different results than
(23:45):
the terminals would have full workforces. You know, the best
infrastructure investment that we can make, honestly is and people.
There isn't going to be a place for automation in
a place for electric vehicles. But at the end of
the day, in this crisis, we depended on people and
the dog workers to actually move those goods in out
of the port. You would destroy the economy of coastal
(24:06):
Los Angeles and Long Beach if you automated all those terminals.
Those are some of the best jobs that we have.
The people that work there have good benefits, they're represented
by union, they've got good wages, and so we have
to also weigh what automation actually does to the productivity
of the economy. Yeah, I think that, you know, a
(24:27):
lot of what Amergrazi is saying is true. I'd spend
time in that part of Los Angeles s and Pedra area,
you know, and it's absolutely the case that there are many,
many longshoreman workers there who have high wages because they
have had a union for more than a century. I
think that is very unusual in America now, as you know,
(24:48):
you know, it is challenging because a lot of the
terminal operators there claim that if they bring in more robots,
more automation, they can have more efficiency. You know, we
just went through a supply chain crisis where it feels like, oh,
more efficiency is exactly what we need. One of the
advantages of those workers being unized is that when automation
comes in, they can negotiate to keep their jobs and
(25:08):
switch to different rules. So the last time that there
was a negotiation, the union agreed to more automation at
certain terminals with the port of l a in exchange
for workers being retrained to be mechanics who maintained that automation.
So that was, you know, a good compromise. I think,
you know, jury still out on how many of those
workers are actually transferred. So sometimes when automation comes in,
(25:31):
if workers have you know, some agency over how it's implemented,
they can keep their jobs. They can retrain, but only
under special circumstances where the union has a lot of power. Frankly,
I don't think that union is going to lose its
power because even if the total number of jobs at
that port shrinks, it means that the workers who remain
are that much more important. Because if you have a
(25:53):
worker that you need to oversee, you know, a bunch
of robots, and if that worker doesn't show up, that
automation can operate. That workers even more important then before,
because you know, the people who are left can just
shut down that whole system, and they have. And by
the way, you know, in a couple of months there's
gonna be a contract renegotiation between that union and the
(26:14):
Port of l A and the terminal operators. The last
time that happened, the President had to intercede to keep
cargo flowing through that port. So that is what unions do, right,
and they go on strike or they slow down the
pace of work in order to get their demands met.
And that's coming again. That's going to be a big
important negotiation for the future of automation and the Port
(26:35):
of l A. Especially. You know, as we as we're
wrapping things up, I have two more questions for both
of you agog as we look to solutions. Well, how
can the infrastructure be updated to better conditions and prevent
breakdowns in the future. Well, I think, first of all,
the big legislation that the Congress just passed around infrastructure
has historic amounts of investment reports and for supply issues.
(26:56):
So there's a huge focus right now on supply chain.
And we're talking about yell, we're talking about modernizing and trucks,
we're talking about terminals ports, so that is a huge way.
The other piece of it is what I mentioned earlier
is that investment in people infrastructure. The best thing we
can do to fix future supply chain issues is to
make sure that more people in supply chain are unionized,
that actually have representation and have good paying jobs with
(27:18):
benefits that will also help supply chain issues. Thank you
and Christopher. So what solutions do you discuss in your book?
You know, they're not that different from what marre Garcia
just mentioned. I think that you know, in the long run,
as we have fewer and fewer able bodied workers in
the labor force, we're starting to see a resurgence of
(27:39):
organized labor. I mean, who would have thought that Starbucks
workers who get relatively good benefits would unionize, You know,
who would have thought we were going to have a
second vote in Alabama and unionization of Amazon warehouse workers.
I think unionizing trekkers in the Lake is further out
and much more challenging, But who knows, maybe they're next,
you know, so maybe we're having a resurgence of you know,
(28:02):
workers organizing in order to have more power over the
conditions of their labor and not just you know, oh,
pay me more money or I'm gonna walk. That's been
the only leverage of workers have had to date. You know,
maybe we will get there because of challenges with companies
just can't find enough workers. Well, thank you both so
much for your insight and your thoughtfulness to your interest
(28:25):
in this essential workers and essential voices. You know, it's
heard loud and clear today. I think that undeniably anyone
who heard this show today and is walking away with
absolutely a full fourth course meal on what they needed
to know about not just the people, the infrastructure, where
we are in society specifically with this conversation, and hopefully
(28:45):
where we can go next, right, and hopefully this continues
to add to the momentum of those conversations fast tracking
to a solution and as we you know, went down
on our show here, I wouldn't have to offer to
both of you. How can our community and all the
communities that this show touches support the work that you
both are doing. I know, may Or, you're embarking into
another journey right now. Should be great to hear when
(29:06):
that next chapter is. And Christopher, same thing for you.
After arriving today, you know what's what's also next? How
can we support you both? Sure, I've been the mayor
for seven years. I'm also currently are now running for Congress,
which I'm excited about here in the Long Beach, Los
Angeles area. I've sort about forty local labor unions and
really proud of that. It's certainly going to be a
champion for working people and excited about that next step
(29:28):
to work in these partner supplied gen issues as well.
Thank you, Chris, Yeah, congratulations on that. Marcia. If you
do make it to Congress, I look forward to potentially
covering some of your initiatives there. You know, for me,
I mean, I know that this is a challenging topic
and not everybody's gonna go read a whole book on it,
But luckily there's a documentary based on the book it's
coming out in early March, which is wow, congratulations, It's
(29:51):
just in a week or two, so you know, everybody
should look for that. It's one of the few things
that the journal produces that is going to be free
and not behind the paywall, so you know, arriving today,
the movie is coming and hopefully that's can sparkle whole
another wave of conversations about this because you know, I
think most people can sit down for forty five minutes
and watch something about the lives of essential workers in
(30:12):
these industries because it touches all of us. You know,
we all rely on this material, these goods. This is
the substance of our life. You know, this is what
we need to get through our days. After that conversation,
I just want to go to everyone I know and
asked them how much they know about those new shoes
(30:32):
or the pip of towers they just order. Do you
know where you came from, how did it get to you?
And who brought it to your door? I know, and
I wonder too if folks know about what Christopher shared
that any item we order online has been moved by
at least a hundred hands. Sometimes ordering things online feel
so anonymous like clicking up button forgetting about it and
(30:53):
then poof, one day it arrives when the reality is
that without all the folks processing our goods, that mindless
click would go nowhere. You're so right, and to come
full circle to the beginning of the pandemic, when good
to wear out of stock, and professionals within the supply
chain we're risking their lives to ensure our knees were met.
We want to give a big Essential Voices thank you
(31:13):
to all of you who make up that supply chain.
You are essential, you continue to be essential, and we
are so grateful for your service. So so join us
next week when we'll begin a two part series about
the movement for black lives during the pandemic and first
speak with essential worker miss Key Nor from the organization
Black Visions in Minneapolis. The following week we'll have a
(31:36):
roundtable conversation with civil rights attorney Ben Crump. We'll be
back next week. Thank you for joining us Essential Voices
with Wilmer. Val Drama is produced by me m R Raquel,
Alison Shano, and Kevin Retkowski, with production support from Associate
producer Lillian Holman. Executive producers Wilmer val Drama, Adam Reynolds,
(31:57):
Leo Clem and Aaron Hilliard. This episode was edited by
m R. Riquel, Sean Tracy and Justin Cho and features
original music by Will Risotti. Special thanks to last week's
essential voices Nicole Salima and Adamando Pacheco and to our
thought leaders, Mayor Robert Garcia and Christopher Mims. Additional thanks
to James al Mota. This is a Clamor and w
(32:19):
V Entertainment production in partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael
Dura podcast Network. For more podcasts from my Heart, visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows,
Hey, mr Hey wilmur So. It's spring and it's beautiful
and it's time for essential voices. That's right. So last
week we spoke to Nicole Salima and Armando Pacheco, who
are two invaluable links in the global supply chain, and
they are also two invaluable members of my family. It
was a pleasure to have them join the mix, and
(00:23):
after speaking to them, I definitely want to learn more
about the rest of the chain. So who do we
have this weekend? Are this week we're talking to Mayor
Robert Garcia and journalist Christopher Mims. Mayor Garcia is the
mayor of Long Beach, California. We're Nicole works at the port.
Christopher Mims writes for the Wall Street Journal and wrote
a book about the global supply chain called Arriving Today,
(00:46):
and both know the ins and outs of a system
that touches all of us but remains fairly quiet for
most of us until it breaks down. In the spirit
of keeping things moving, let's get started. Mayor Garcia, it's
a pleasure having you. Thank you Christopher for being here too.
It's a pleasure having you here. This is a unique conversation.
(01:08):
It's one that a lot of people never really thought
about when they were getting their products and when they
were getting their things delivered, and when they magically felt
like they have an instant card here and all of
a sudden the groceries just showed up. They really didn't
know that this stuff was being driven by people that
were driving through the empty streets. And you know this
scary you know, post ourcallaptive vision. So where everyone at
(01:29):
the stay at homeowners and all that, And as we
evolved and developed, we realize how important they were. So
I love to dive in real quick for both of you.
What are your reactions to Nicole and our mind of stories.
Maybe we'll start with you mayor Garcia. Yeah, I mean
I think both Nicole and Armando and we're sharing a
real American story right now the world experiencing when you
see across the country essential workers have always been doing
(01:49):
the work and always been struggling doing that work. Almost
always is your workers that are not paid enough that
some are working under for labor standards. Is your workers
that don't have the luxury of taking days off for
having paid sick days all the time. And so this
last couple of years, and really I think showing the
country that these folks are much more indispensable than they
than they thought. So I think a lot of us
(02:11):
obviously have known how important that work is. I think
about what Nicole said about the ports of forty percent
of America's goods coming out of Long Beach in l A.
Thet of trade in and out of those just those
two ports alone, and so they keep that economy going.
What the long shore workers did at that port was heroic.
I it's heroic all the time, but especially during that
(02:32):
moment when there was so much uncertainty. And by the way,
we had long shore workers that that died of COVID
nineteen that were on the docks. We had long shore
workers that were working not knowing if they were gonna
get vaccinated. We were debating, I mean the state in
the federal government about trying to get vaccines down to
get long shore workers priority for vaccinations. So they are
beyond essential. And I think, you know, oftentimes we are
(02:55):
now calling these workers, you know, heroes in some cases,
and they are. I think now it's not to all
of us to recognize that if if we're going to
call these workers essentials and sential line heroes, that we
also have to pay them what they deserve at the workplace.
Thank you, married, and what about for you, Christopher. Both
Nicole and Armando stories, you know, reflect the stories that
I've heard from many other workers in their position, both
(03:17):
in ports and driving trucks. So I don't think that
they're at all out of the ordinary, unfortunately, And I
thought it was really poignant when Armando said, you know,
suddenly we were treated as heroes. I hope that people
don't forget this moment and what they've learned. And I
think that, you know, we're at a unique time where
(03:37):
workers who are in certain roles before I think they
were really invisible, especially in supply chain, you know, people
who get us the stuff that we absolutely rely on
to live every day. My experience writing a book about
this has been you know, when people read it, they
just say, oh my god, I had no idea, and
it's like, yeah, nobody talks about this. It's like the
least sexy part of the economy but also the most essential,
(03:57):
So that to me is kind of baffling. So, you know,
I hope that people continue to educate themselves about the
lives of these kinds of workers, and you know, frankly,
I think that we're all going to have to because
a lot of the disruptions we saw during the pandemic
that's not over. I mean, you know, a million Americans
(04:18):
almost died of COVID. One estimate I've seen is that
another one point seven million Americans may have been taken
out of the workforce by long COVID. Then you think
about the disruptions to childcare, the number of women who
have been taken out of the workforce as a result.
You think about you know, previous administration's policies on immigration
and how many millions of workers were not added to
(04:40):
our economy as a result. So you know, we're at
full employment right now more or less, and a lot
of these jobs it is hard for employers to hire
workers into them, which means I think we're going to
continue to have disruptions to being able to get the
goods that we rely on, and they're gonna get more expensive.
And that is all down too, you know, if there
(05:01):
are enough workers in these roles or not, and how
are they being treated, because that affects how long they
stay in these roles. Yeah, totally. I mean I think
that also kind of points to what Nicole was saying,
which we'll talk about a little bit later, but about
automation and kind of where we're headed, and the fact
that you know, she's bringing up the fact that she
feels it will kind of collapse our economy, which is
(05:22):
a big statement, but I definitely think there's truth to
what she's saying there in that fear. And Christopher, I
want to go back for a second to what you
said because I kind of chuckled where you were saying
that the supply chain is the least sexy part of
the economy, Right. I think that's a really good way
to put it, because you're right that people, for many
of us, it's sort of invisible, this invisible entity that
(05:43):
exists and we don't think about it. And it's kind
of a big question. But I'm wondering if you can
give us a little bit of a summary of how
these goods are shipped and transported. Yeah. I mean, it's
such a long story that I ended up writing a
three inter page book on it. But bottom line is, it's,
like you know, most good finished goods are made in Asia.
(06:03):
So to give you the real, real thumbnail version of it,
it's this fourteen thousand mile journey. You know, it starts
with a factory somewhere in Asia or Southeast Asia. You know,
goods are put onto a container ship. You know, they
travel all the way across Pacific, which can take a month,
you know, and then they go to a port like
Long Beach, you know where Mary Garcia and the longshoreman
(06:24):
whom we heard from, you know, have dominion. And you know,
that's just the beginning of the domestic journey, which is
hugely complicated because those goods have to get out of
the port. They gotta get truck to a warehouse, transferred
to a long haul truck, then they go to a
fulfillment center. If it's e commerce, then they're broken down
into the individual packages, which gets delivered to our house,
goes to a sorting center, then it goes to a
(06:45):
delivery station, then it gets on a UPS truck or
a you know USPS van, then it gets delivered to
your house. And I mean that is the most superficial
version of that journey I can give you. It's unbelievable.
Any one item that you order online, you know, dozens
a hundred people touched it, untold machines, tens of thousands
(07:06):
of miles, So every one of those journeys is kind
of a minor miracle of our modern economy. I mean,
you just said dozens or a hundred people have touched
the one item. It's like, we don't we don't think
about that, those invisible hands that are getting us the
things that we take for granted every day. And for you,
Mary Garcia, what is the port of l A and
(07:27):
Long Beaches role in this supply chain? Like, once the
items get there, what's kind of the role there? I mean,
most American ports operate in the same way where there's
terminal operators. Oftentimes, these large terminal operators are owned by
large conglomerates, international conglomerates, shipping companies, and the ports are
there to help facilitate essentially operate the land as landlords.
(07:48):
And these operating companies then have agreements with a variety
of the targets of the world and the groceries of
the world, roles as ports and the cities. You know,
we want to make sure that first and foremost, we
have authority to make sure the people that are on
these sites are treated well, are respected. We're suring that
wages are fair. We're also making sure that we have
good operators, and we're trying to push bigger policies. So
(08:09):
we're trying to push whether it's terminal operators, whether it's
truck driving companies to have tougher and better, cleaner steams.
Making sure that we're focused on infrastructure. Infrastructure is a
big part of the port authorities do, which is we're
building out the infrastructures that these large companies are able
to come in and move good faster. Right now, for example,
there's a lot of conversation about infrastructure reports that investment
(08:31):
is critical to the supply gene and a lot of
the work that the coal and others are doing at
these ports is dependent on federal intervention and federal resources
to do the massive project from the rich rail projects,
whether it's making sure that your drudgies at the ships
and committing out of the ports. Our role is really
about infrastructure and about making sure that we've got good
operators at the ports. We'll be right back after this break,
(08:56):
Welcome back to Essential Voices. It's really impressive when you
describe the chain of events right and then mayor when
you explain the role you know, I hope that people
right now as they're listening, they're going like, oh, my lord,
like I had zero idea how much I need to appreciate.
But most importantly, be conscious when something gets late to
(09:19):
your house instead of calling, complain about it and be
like something went off, you know, in the hundred hands
that touched this, but Mergarcia you kind of pivoted into
that and understanding the road and most only the journey
that Long Beach became obviously the model for the vaccine
rollout early on. Can you walk us through what you
did for the community of Long Beach and more specifically
(09:40):
for duck workers like Nicole. Yeah, I mean, I'm really
proud of the response we had in Long Beaches released
to the vaccine rollout. I mean, we were the first
city to vaccinate teachers, the first city to actually seniors
and people disabilities, first entire city of California, and we
honestly on release the dock workers, we pushed so hard
and then the rules that we got doc brokers of accinated,
(10:02):
probably before we were supposed to, but we knew how
important it was to to the economy. What what happened
in the greater like Los Angeles area with the vaccine Honestly,
it's hard to describe because all of the failures in
the system that happened across the region in the state,
but essentially what causes the issues, and I think what
we did better than most was as vaccines were coming
(10:22):
in across the country in that first production cycle, governments
and fens of the state, we're telling cities and municipalities
to essentially put aside both doses. And so what they
were saying is like, give folks their first doses of vaccine,
but then put aside half of what you're getting, so
that that second dose is reserved for when they get
(10:42):
their second dose many weeks later. So what that was
causing was massive shortages of folks who needed the vaccine immediately.
What we did, and honestly, the state was not a
fan of, but it actually ended up working out for us,
is we made the decision early on. I said, we
have with the team, you know, all this vaccine. Why
would we save half of it for many many weeks
(11:03):
we should get rid of until we run out. Let's
get as many people of vaccine as possible. And I'd
rather have people have their first dose than some folks
waiting around a little bit longer maybe for their second dose.
That enabled us then to vaccinate teachers early and enabled
us to give them what was supposed to be the
second dose for other folks to dock workers, getting them
(11:24):
their first dose. And so we were able to just
to move a lot faster than the system because we
used that second dose that we're supposed to hold onto
for weeks. Within a couple of months, the state transitioned
and then we all began doing what we were already
doing in the city, which helped. But it relates to
doc workers. They weren't even considered on that top list,
(11:45):
if you remember the list, at least the way it
came out in California. At most states, first you have
to actually people there are sixty five and over. Then
after sixty five and over you get you can batch
actually some essential workers what the government told you was essential,
but not everyone in that group. And so you have,
for example, bus drivers, transit workers, we're getting people to
(12:05):
and from work that we're not in that group. You
had dock workers who are trying to move goods in
and out of the country. We're not in that first group.
And so I think that if the cities and counties
and jurisdictions that kind of threw the rules out the
window and just started vaccinating as many essential workers as
possible were the ones that got ahead of the vaccination processing.
And that's what we did. We were the first sport
(12:26):
to start vaccinating dock workers in the entire country. And
you should have seen the dock workers and the leadership,
particularly the dock Workers Union, could not have been more
grateful because they were seeing the bros and sisters die
at the port of COVID. I mean, that's just incredible.
I had no idea. So it sounds like you all
did incredible work. I think your approach to being like, wait,
(12:46):
why are we saving this second part of the vaccine.
Let's get as many people vaccinated with at least one
dose as possible sounds like a really good plan at
a time where like nobody really knew what the best
practices were. So it sounds like you were all really
loud on your feet and did the best you could
to make sure that these essential dock workers were protected
and especially working through really difficult conditions like both Armando
(13:09):
and Nicole outlined for us. I mean Armando was talking
about how there wasn't anywhere for him and his fellow
truckers to go the bathroom. And that's just one of
many things that you know, we've been hearing from essential
workers under very unfair labor practices for the last couple
of years. And Christopher, I'm I'm wondering, you know, hearing
some of the things that Armando outlined, these difficult conditions
(13:30):
and sort of how truckers maybe we're we're valued in
some states and maybe not as much in other states.
Wondering how kind of these difficult conditions relate to rates
of burnout and turnover and retention. Yeah, so, I mean
the American Trucking Association, which is a lobbying body which
mostly just represents large trucking companies, which are not the
(13:53):
majority of the freight that's moved by truck in America.
So that's an important caveat. But the a t A
says America is going to have a huge trucker shortage.
You know, we're gonna be short hundreds of thousands of
truckers within a few years. And they're not wrong. I
think some of their proposed solutions are misguided because the
real problem is people don't stay in trucking, especially new
(14:14):
young truckers. They tend to get in they burn out
really quickly, you know, and some of the reasons are
the ones that you know Armando outlined. I mean, we
have a really basic shortage of, for example, places for
truckers to sleep in America. You would think that this
would be treated as a national crisis because you know,
maybe the FEDS will get involved, you know, maybe it
would have been part of the infrastructure bill. It wasn't
(14:36):
in there. It really baffles me, even at the national level,
I feel like the real interest of most truckers has
almost no representation. It's really should be a national scandal.
I think. You know, there are other challenges that have
to do with, you know, how the industry is regulated.
But the bottom line is, you know, truckers in America
(14:57):
today they get paid by the mile. If they're not moving,
they're not gonna paid. That's a real challenge for them
because you know, they spend a lot of time being
idle at warehouses and other spots where they have no
control over how long they're there, and they're not getting
paid for that time. And yet we are moving more
free by truck than ever, so we are really putting
you know, these huge demands on the industry, and we're
(15:19):
trying to pull more and more people into it, but
there's not enough attention paid to is this a sustainable job?
Is it being organized? Is the work being organized in
a way where people who you know, have families who
want to spend time with those families can stay in
these jobs. I mean, that's why the trucking workforce keeps
getting older, right, because it's only these really good, hate
(15:40):
to say a grizzled veterans who are really dedicated to it,
are willing to spend all that time on the road,
you know, twenty one days out of every month on average,
you know, fourteen hour days. It's a very hard life.
Some of them are compensated accordingly, but it is very
hard to get people to stick with that job. But
we also have that most truck drivers, by the way,
are not represented or our employees. The vast majority of truckers,
(16:03):
particularly here on the West Coast, are individual operators, basically
small business owners. So if you can imagine in the
Port long between, get maybe fifteen thousand individual truck drivers
that have maybe owned one truck or two trucks are
they own their own truck and they have no working protections,
they have no label, there's no real labor standards for
most of these folks, which is why you know, our
organizations like the Teamsters and others are trying to organize
(16:25):
truck drivers and actually classify them as employees of these
larger corporations, because when many of these guys are going out,
they're getting a truck and they're in debt for the truck,
they're never being able to pay off the truck, and
then they're working these long hours, they're tired, they have
no benefits. The trucking crisis in this country is not
(16:45):
just one of there being enough infrastructure, which I think
Christophers absolutely correct. It's also one of representation. They're misclassified
as these individual operators where they really should need the
protections of unions, which they meant most of them actually support.
And that's the other big part of the trucking crisis
is they're not organized enough under these larger groups and
(17:05):
protect them with benefits and mayor to pick it back
on what you're saying, the only thing that people are
not accounting for is that you talked about the depth.
Right They go, Okay, maybe this is a good business,
I'll buy a truck or two trucks and then make
the pavements a month. But while I'm doing that, I'm
putting in the hours in a truck paste for itself
in quotes, right, And then they get into a situation
where they're like, you know what, I have to join
a big company. And what people don't understand the companies
(17:27):
like a FedEx, like an Amazon. Right, all of these
companies go to all these privately owned trucks, they stick
the Amazon and the FedEx label on it, right, and
it looks like they're a company, you know, delivery truck.
But really these are privately owned by individuals who now
are embedded to not only work for this system, but
(17:50):
they now have to inherit it. Certain regulations that are illogical.
They're illogical. The people that are actually computing how many
hours it should take to drive for one place to another,
how long does it take to load a truck into
actually take the goods off the truck and into either
at home or a business, don't drive trucks. I mean literally,
(18:11):
they're doing it by math. They think that okay, it
should take a person no more than ten minutes to
load a package of this many pounds but then there
is warehouse and company regulations that says you're only allowed
to have one box per dolly. You can't have two
or three boxes in there. So now you're eating up
the time that you're supposed to be using to load
up your trucks, so then you can leave on time.
(18:33):
And then you know, obviously they tell you, you know,
and Christopher brought it up that I thought it was
beautiful that you you brought this up where they sleep,
because as soon as that truck tells you you gotta
pull up regulations, they have to pull up in the
middle of a freeway. And when you see all those
Mac trucks and the where were you know, Armando spoke
about it so beautifully, you know, like there is a
(18:54):
line of trucks that are randomly parked on the freeway
and people are like, why are these trucks doing here
in the freeway? They're also to be saying it, well,
if they don't stop the truck when they're supposed to
wherever there possibly are, they get penalized and they get
marked up for you know, deligence. So there's just so
much about the system itself that sets them up for
failure that I just think it contributes to the burnout rate.
(19:17):
At that point, it's just like, how am I sustainable?
How am I like now? At this point, then one
of those companies go, look, we can pay you a
servants and we'll keep your truck. That's exactly what happens.
I just one last thing that was I think it's
really important. These large corporations, the Amazon's, the larger companies,
they basically hire other quote unquote companies that are trucking companies.
(19:40):
Then these trucking companies signed contracts with these individual independent
drivers that basically the treat of like an employee, but
all the responsibility and all of the liability is on
the right and so they so they actually are employees.
They're misclassified naturally at the end of the day. And
these truck drivers are saying, we own all the liability,
(20:03):
none of the benefits. We can't actually increase our pay
We're stuck paying payments. And this company essially controls the
entire fleet. It is one of the big injustices in
this country right now. Is what's happening to truck drivers
and the industry. And when you have these truck drivers
that are essentially coming home with almost no pay and
start these payments. It's something that has to change this country.
(20:27):
We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to
essential voices. We hear about what's going on and how
insidious these labor practices are and the fact that there
aren't any Armando was talking to us apart in his
story that we didn't hear about women truck drivers getting
U t i s because they don't have a place
to go to the bathroom. That's another thing that these
(20:48):
companies aren't liable for his health issues that may have
come up during these long routes where people don't have
a place to go to the bathroom. And it's just
having these really strong unions that exists. I know that
the Long Sherman Union is one of the strongest ever,
and it's great that those kinds of resources exist, but
it's not enough. And it does make me think a
(21:08):
lot about kind of the role that the pandemic has
had in all of this, because obviously these issues were
occurring before the pandemic, but have gotten exacerbated in the
last couple of years. And I'm wondering specifically with the
pandemic for folks who may not be exactly super aware
what caused this breakdown and could it have been like
(21:30):
what could have happened differently. So many people came to work,
so many people risk their lives to make sure that,
you know, all of us had groceries. So they're all
to be commended. A big part of the issues was
just that we had record demand, people staying home, people
not going on vacation, not going out to eat, you know,
spending money shopping online or whatever. So part of this
(21:54):
was just that the whole way that people consume in
America just changed. And you know, some of that change
is gonna be permanent. So this this world that we
have now where there are challenges with supply chains and
there's just a record demand for goods to be delivered,
you know, all the way to your front door, not
just to the local store. That is that's forever. That's
(22:16):
just going to continue. And speaking of change, Nichole spook
about the increase of automation at the ports around the country.
Do you see a similar transformation happening in l A
and Long Beach? Mayored and uh and Christopher, what are
the pros and cons of this automation? I mean, we
talked about at the beginning specifically at the fact that
you know, this was they were flirting with automation before
(22:38):
the pandemic, and everyone's like, this is going to take
people's jobs, you know, and then the pandemic happens, and
then it becomes very hard to hire personnel, you know,
and to find individuals. So it almost feels like this
is going to be a situation or a conversation that's
going to fast tracked because it is going to be
very hard to multiply, not just to hands on deck,
but really automated. The solution ends for the crisis we
(23:01):
have in some of this demand may or how do
you see that? In Christopher, if you can follow that
question with the pros and cons of automation, there is
automations already exists in the ports of longaging, name Los Angeles,
and when those terminals kind of switched to the automated systems,
a lot of it was driven by certainly the interests
of the companies to have less overhead for the workers,
(23:22):
there's no question about that, but also driven by trying
to have sustainable electric vehicles and you know, and which
is often times what's used as the reasons the automy things, right,
it's climate change issues. If those the truth is, I
think that looking back what's happened with automation, particularly the
port of Loanage in Los Angeles, those projects aren't producing
or working any harder or producing dramatically different results than
(23:45):
the terminals would have full workforces. You know, the best
infrastructure investment that we can make, honestly is and people.
There isn't going to be a place for automation in
a place for electric vehicles. But at the end of
the day, in this crisis, we depended on people and
the dog workers to actually move those goods in out
of the port. You would destroy the economy of coastal
(24:06):
Los Angeles and Long Beach if you automated all those terminals.
Those are some of the best jobs that we have.
The people that work there have good benefits, they're represented
by union, they've got good wages, and so we have
to also weigh what automation actually does to the productivity
of the economy. Yeah, I think that, you know, a
(24:27):
lot of what Amergrazi is saying is true. I'd spend
time in that part of Los Angeles s and Pedra area,
you know, and it's absolutely the case that there are many,
many longshoreman workers there who have high wages because they
have had a union for more than a century. I
think that is very unusual in America now, as you know,
(24:48):
you know, it is challenging because a lot of the
terminal operators there claim that if they bring in more robots,
more automation, they can have more efficiency. You know, we
just went through a supply chain crisis where it feels like, oh,
more efficiency is exactly what we need. One of the
advantages of those workers being unized is that when automation
comes in, they can negotiate to keep their jobs and
(25:08):
switch to different rules. So the last time that there
was a negotiation, the union agreed to more automation at
certain terminals with the port of l a in exchange
for workers being retrained to be mechanics who maintained that automation.
So that was, you know, a good compromise. I think,
you know, jury still out on how many of those
workers are actually transferred. So sometimes when automation comes in,
(25:31):
if workers have you know, some agency over how it's implemented,
they can keep their jobs. They can retrain, but only
under special circumstances where the union has a lot of power. Frankly,
I don't think that union is going to lose its
power because even if the total number of jobs at
that port shrinks, it means that the workers who remain
are that much more important. Because if you have a
(25:53):
worker that you need to oversee, you know, a bunch
of robots, and if that worker doesn't show up, that
automation can operate. That workers even more important then before,
because you know, the people who are left can just
shut down that whole system, and they have. And by
the way, you know, in a couple of months there's
gonna be a contract renegotiation between that union and the
(26:14):
Port of l A and the terminal operators. The last
time that happened, the President had to intercede to keep
cargo flowing through that port. So that is what unions do, right,
and they go on strike or they slow down the
pace of work in order to get their demands met.
And that's coming again. That's going to be a big
important negotiation for the future of automation and the Port
(26:35):
of l A. Especially. You know, as we as we're
wrapping things up, I have two more questions for both
of you agog as we look to solutions. Well, how
can the infrastructure be updated to better conditions and prevent
breakdowns in the future. Well, I think, first of all,
the big legislation that the Congress just passed around infrastructure
has historic amounts of investment reports and for supply issues.
(26:56):
So there's a huge focus right now on supply chain.
And we're talking about yell, we're talking about modernizing and trucks,
we're talking about terminals ports, so that is a huge way.
The other piece of it is what I mentioned earlier
is that investment in people infrastructure. The best thing we
can do to fix future supply chain issues is to
make sure that more people in supply chain are unionized,
that actually have representation and have good paying jobs with
(27:18):
benefits that will also help supply chain issues. Thank you
and Christopher. So what solutions do you discuss in your book?
You know, they're not that different from what marre Garcia
just mentioned. I think that you know, in the long run,
as we have fewer and fewer able bodied workers in
the labor force, we're starting to see a resurgence of
(27:39):
organized labor. I mean, who would have thought that Starbucks
workers who get relatively good benefits would unionize, You know,
who would have thought we were going to have a
second vote in Alabama and unionization of Amazon warehouse workers.
I think unionizing trekkers in the Lake is further out
and much more challenging, But who knows, maybe they're next,
you know, so maybe we're having a resurgence of you know,
(28:02):
workers organizing in order to have more power over the
conditions of their labor and not just you know, oh,
pay me more money or I'm gonna walk. That's been
the only leverage of workers have had to date. You know,
maybe we will get there because of challenges with companies
just can't find enough workers. Well, thank you both so
much for your insight and your thoughtfulness to your interest
(28:25):
in this essential workers and essential voices. You know, it's
heard loud and clear today. I think that undeniably anyone
who heard this show today and is walking away with
absolutely a full fourth course meal on what they needed
to know about not just the people, the infrastructure, where
we are in society specifically with this conversation, and hopefully
(28:45):
where we can go next, right, and hopefully this continues
to add to the momentum of those conversations fast tracking
to a solution and as we you know, went down
on our show here, I wouldn't have to offer to
both of you. How can our community and all the
communities that this show touches support the work that you
both are doing. I know, may Or, you're embarking into
another journey right now. Should be great to hear when
(29:06):
that next chapter is. And Christopher, same thing for you.
After arriving today, you know what's what's also next? How
can we support you both? Sure, I've been the mayor
for seven years. I'm also currently are now running for Congress,
which I'm excited about here in the Long Beach, Los
Angeles area. I've sort about forty local labor unions and
really proud of that. It's certainly going to be a
champion for working people and excited about that next step
(29:28):
to work in these partner supplied gen issues as well.
Thank you, Chris, Yeah, congratulations on that. Marcia. If you
do make it to Congress, I look forward to potentially
covering some of your initiatives there. You know, for me,
I mean, I know that this is a challenging topic
and not everybody's gonna go read a whole book on it,
But luckily there's a documentary based on the book it's
coming out in early March, which is wow, congratulations, It's
(29:51):
just in a week or two, so you know, everybody
should look for that. It's one of the few things
that the journal produces that is going to be free
and not behind the paywall, so you know, arriving today,
the movie is coming and hopefully that's can sparkle whole
another wave of conversations about this because you know, I
think most people can sit down for forty five minutes
and watch something about the lives of essential workers in
(30:12):
these industries because it touches all of us. You know,
we all rely on this material, these goods. This is
the substance of our life. You know, this is what
we need to get through our days. After that conversation,
I just want to go to everyone I know and
asked them how much they know about those new shoes
(30:32):
or the pip of towers they just order. Do you
know where you came from, how did it get to you?
And who brought it to your door? I know, and
I wonder too if folks know about what Christopher shared
that any item we order online has been moved by
at least a hundred hands. Sometimes ordering things online feel
so anonymous like clicking up button forgetting about it and
(30:53):
then poof, one day it arrives when the reality is
that without all the folks processing our goods, that mindless
click would go nowhere. You're so right, and to come
full circle to the beginning of the pandemic, when good
to wear out of stock, and professionals within the supply
chain we're risking their lives to ensure our knees were met.
We want to give a big Essential Voices thank you
(31:13):
to all of you who make up that supply chain.
You are essential, you continue to be essential, and we
are so grateful for your service. So so join us
next week when we'll begin a two part series about
the movement for black lives during the pandemic and first
speak with essential worker miss Key Nor from the organization
Black Visions in Minneapolis. The following week we'll have a
(31:36):
roundtable conversation with civil rights attorney Ben Crump. We'll be
back next week. Thank you for joining us Essential Voices
with Wilmer. Val Drama is produced by me m R Raquel,
Alison Shano, and Kevin Retkowski, with production support from Associate
producer Lillian Holman. Executive producers Wilmer val Drama, Adam Reynolds,
(31:57):
Leo Clem and Aaron Hilliard. This episode was edited by
m R. Riquel, Sean Tracy and Justin Cho and features
original music by Will Risotti. Special thanks to last week's
essential voices Nicole Salima and Adamando Pacheco and to our
thought leaders, Mayor Robert Garcia and Christopher Mims. Additional thanks
to James al Mota. This is a Clamor and w
(32:19):
V Entertainment production in partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael
Dura podcast Network. For more podcasts from my Heart, visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows,
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