June 3, 2025 • 29 mins
On this revealing episode of Eyes Up Here, ECW legend Jason Knight sits down with fellow alum Francine for an unfiltered conversation. Jason pulls back the curtain on the wild world of Extreme Championship Wrestling, sharing untold locker room stories and personal experiences from the EXTREME frontlines. At the center of it all? Paul Heyman — the visionary mastermind behind ECW — and the promises he made that didn’t quite deliver. It's raw, real, and straight from the heart of the revolution.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
H m hm hm hm hm h.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
H Hey everyone, it is UNI. It spring drinking and
you are listening to ipe up there with drinking. And
I heard it was a network or where it did
the podcast. There's always I need gooins.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm a said, what up?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
What up? How going on?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I'm doing great? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'm doing alright, doing all right.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Had a good weekend, went the four, did the boardwalk,
We did some rides.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I watched a surfing competition on the beach.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It was a really fun weekend. Kids had a good time,
so did we.
Speaker 6 (01:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, I liked it.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Surfing competition. I'm thinking thinking Batman versus the Joker.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
You know, well, my window was like an ocean view
and I'm sitting at the window and I noticed all
these people and I was like, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
And next thing I know, they're in the ocean.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I was like, it can't be a cold plunge because
it wasn't freezing all right.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And then I saw them surfing and I was like,
oh wow.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
And then there must have been like a ceremony where
they all got like prizes and stuff. Oh wow, that
was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Nobody named the big Kahuna walking around.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I don't know, but I wanted to get out there
and try it. But I'm scared of I'm scared of sharks.
Oh my look, I give fit and die.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So you know what happened over the weekend here a
tornado went through about uh one town over.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Wow. Yeah, yeah, scary.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah Friday. But what's weirdest is where I am, even
though it's the same county, Like we're protected by some
weird bubble. So it was like the Wizard of Oz
weather in one town over. And we did like a
little like little sprinkle, like the little watering can of rain,
and yeah, this funnel cloud tornado swept through really quickly.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
That is scary, man. I'm glad, uh glad everybody's okay
over there.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Yeah, it rained like it got really dark because we
were there for Friday to Sunday and it got really
really dark. And then uh, we wanted to walk down
to a restaurant that was on the boardwalk and it
was like raining, not hard though, so we put on
We didn't have an umbrella, but we put our hoodies on.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
With our hoods. The four of us are just running
running down the boardwalk, in the rain. It was actually fun.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
But uh, I think we're going to go back, maybe
late July or August something like that, do it again.
But it was a good time. I really enjoy it.
I really like it, you know. I laid out today,
tried to get some sun. I need some sun. Big
weekend coming up. We'll talk about it later, but I
(03:19):
am white as a ghost. I am Casper the Friendly, so.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I'm gonna try and lay out. We're getting a heat wave.
It's supposed to be in the eighties and nineties this week.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
So the pool is ready to go, and hopefully my
big ass will be in there.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
For the next three days until I have to leave
on Friday. So yeah, that's that's my plans for the week.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
That sounds like a plan right there.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Jim Tanned Laundry. Did you ever hear that before on GTL?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Just pump my way through, uh Saint Augustine this weekend
being the franchise and Bambi so again, well we'll.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Plug that at the end. Our guest needs a moment.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
So he'll be stopping by in a few but otherwise, uh,
nothing else going on there.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
No, you know here, we're chill here, you know, no
gt L going on here.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Just the just the l any drinking.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
No, well a little bit, yes, but here's our guests
coming out.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Our guests right now. Okay, well never mind, we'll talk
about that later. Is he in?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
He's in? You want to introduce?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
I have another good friend of mine and he c
W original alum, the great Jason Knight, the sexiest man alive.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Look at him in a studio. Look at you. I
love it.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Very nice.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Sanctuary over here.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You are the professional, my friend. How are you?
Speaker 4 (04:49):
You know I went for years not seeing Jason, and
now I see you all the time.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
It's great, It is great.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I'm glad because you know, it's the to know that
we're still around and we're healthy and you know, doing
what we do.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
You know, it's always good to uh, the more of us,
the better, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
I always say when Shane and I do these signings,
we always get the Triple Threat promo picture with me, Shane,
Bamdam and Chris, and there's always two signatures that are missing,
and it just breaks my heart every time. So when
I get to see you guys and know that we're
thriving and we're healthy, it's just it's everything because our
(05:31):
locker room we have such a bad like I guess
you could say, reputation, and there's so many people who
have come above that and are thriving. And so it's
always good to see a fellow brother and you know,
happy to see you, happy you're here, thank you, Yeah,
(05:52):
happy to have you on. So I want to I
want to talk about the current state what you're doing,
because you're doing great things. But I just want to
go back a little bit, well a lot, probably thirty
two years back. So Jason is one of the first
guys that I literally feuded with. And first of all,
(06:16):
I have to I do this all the time. I
have to say thank you because you were you were
so gracious with the role that you were given with me.
You let me beat the absolute snot out of you
every single time, and you sold it like a champ.
And I always felt so bad because here's little me
(06:36):
and these big guys and they're selling for me, and
I'm thinking to myself, oh my god, they're gonna all
hate me. But you were such a pleasure to work
with every single time. So I wanted to say thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Okay, And you know what it is, we all need
to realize that we are in a form of show
business and if we can do something well entertain our
fans our spectators, that means that we are doing something right.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
And now if we're gonna have a big head and try.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
To almost make it into like, you know, the real world,
you know, well, this is impossible. I'm not going to
sell for this one or that one. I'm not gonna
put this one over because he's too green or he's
too small, that type of thing. That's the wrong approach
in our industry. And I believe that longevity lies in
(07:39):
the fact that so many of us do cooperate, and
that's why we were welcome to come back to work,
and that's why we lasted for all the years that
we lasted in one single company.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
You are the only person I have to say that
the Bronco buster, and he bought me so huge, he
would hold me there and not let me get He's
the only one.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Who ever did that. But I found it so freaking funny.
It was hilarious, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
But yeah, I've said it so many times, like the
guys that you know, I worked with, because Paul made
me look like a superhero and I wasn't. I was
this little, skinny little girl who had big balls and
wouldn't you know, do anything practically in the ring. But you,
you were just you were such a joy to work
(08:35):
with every single time, and you never know, I'm not
going to do this. You sold all the time and
it was just it was so fun working with you.
So I just wanted to start that off and say
thank you for that.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
I mean, likewise, I had a great time.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And you know, and again, you know, if something bothers
you a certain spot or an angle, you know, there's
always that door, you know. Yeah, and you know again
you know, to me, it's a job, and it's a
fun job.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
It's there's something on a thing coming. Can you see me?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I can see you.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Okay, that's fine then because on the screen we can
see it. I can't read because I'm not allowed to
wear my glasses, but in any case I can't see.
So in any case, you know, and especially in this
particular industry, you know, if we're not going to cooperate,
we need to find some other form of work. And okay,
(09:40):
so getting back to the whole thing, I enjoyed it
very much.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
I love professional wrestling. I love entertaining.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I love the whole aspect physical sports entertainment, the way
the storylines can go.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
In a million directions.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And of course, you know, we had a very very
creative genius, you know, and Paul Hayman, so it was.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Definitely a roller coaster ride with him.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So a lot of those angles were a lot of
fun because we pushed the envelope and sometimes we made
the unbelievable believable. And I also have to say that
I feel very privileged and lucky that in ninety three
I was given an opportunity at Eastern Championship President, which
(10:29):
of course.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Became extreme.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Because at that time, and especially you know, I was
coming off of a pretty bad back surgery, bad injury
just at of back surgery a few months prior to
my debut. So Paul getting opportunity when nobody was really
banging down my door, you know, so many of us
(10:58):
share that same.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
Experience, you know, and that circumstance.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So I feel that, you know, we were given an
opportunity and it's something also to create something very very
special during the times where wrestling was very mundane, it
was what it was, you know, everything was like black
and white. You had your heels, you had your faces,
(11:23):
you had your fans were more or less programmed as
far as how to react, and we pushed that on
the open, you know, and especially with things that you
and I did. It was because in most other companies,
nothing like that ever ever occurred, you know, so in
(11:47):
a way, we were the first ones to.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
To put it out there.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And I think we've got a great reaction, because all
I remember is whether I was in that corner of
you uncle bosting or or beating me up, and then
you know, I wouldn't even have to open my eyes
to see the reaction.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
You could just hear it. You know. Yeah, you did
something right, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I always walked away very very satisfied.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
I'm very satisfied and.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Proud of the fact that we were able to do
something a lot different than just you know, two wrestlers
entertaining the crowd one two three, ding ding ding next,
you know, like a conveyor belt, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
So I think we did something very special.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I totally agree. I want to fast forward a little
bit to just incredible. Okay, So you were paired with
PJ for a while, and then I remember because I
wasn't told from what I can recall, I wasn't told
too much ahead of time.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I don't I don't know if anybody ever was.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
It was kind of like, you know, Paul would call
you like the week before, the night before and say, oh,
I'm doing this, this and this.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
It was sometimes it.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Was on the fly, sometimes it was the night of
the show or whatever. But I remember the night that
I turned on Dreamer when he won the belt and
I went with PJ. And you know, it was from
my understanding going forward, it was supposed to be me,
PJ and you, and then something happened to where you
(13:34):
were kind of gone.
Speaker 7 (13:37):
Yeah, well well I was gone pretty much in definitely indefinitely,
other than being brought back a couple of times for
the the E.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
C W W W E version pay per views, and
you know that that was well, you know, that was
the beginning of the end for as far as what
we were. But yeah, you know, I mean there was
just a set of circumstances you know that I I was,
(14:09):
uh toward the end.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
You know, I was very.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Unhappy there, you know, because I did not fit into
that managerial world. You know, I always felt like and
no one's fault as far as the people that I'm
working with, uh, I felt that they should have kind
of let me do something else because I was really
(14:31):
into that whole fitness programing and and getting into great shape,
you know, and I proved many many times. I mean,
you know, I'm a wrestler, you know, Uh, I can manage.
I can do, uh whatever you want me to do.
But you know, wrestling is what I wanted to do.
And even Paul and I spoke spoke about it, you know,
(14:52):
and he was saying that he wanted to pretty much
have me do something else and I was waiting, waiting.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
It wasn't open. So my attitude was a little bit
off at that time.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
You know, I didn't walk around the locker room and
you know, moping or being angry at at anyone is
just you know, the you could feel those vibes, you know,
like between Paul and I and all that.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
That was about.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
That was actually the last time that my my very
last e c w as as an Extreme Championship Wrestling
without the WWE.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
That was my very last time, you know. When PJ
won the belt, we.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Returned, and you know then I just stopped getting booth
certain things happened, you know, that were you know, I
guess between Paul and I, and you know, he he
felt I guess he felt hurt and he felt you know,
he felt angry. He felt like he needed to punish me.
You know, see, he never released me out of my contract.
(15:58):
You know, so when and the time when the call
came for me to go to w CW, I couldn't
because I was never released out of that contract. I mean,
you know, just to clarify that, and yes, I did
receive a call.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
So I kind of just lingered and did nothing.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
And then I came to one more show in Poughkeepsie,
I think, and I asked him for a release and
he said, well, you know, see me in a half hour.
And of course, you know, the came and went, you know,
and whatever listing water under the bridge, he had his reasons.
I have absolutely no ill will nothing. It took me
(16:39):
a little while, you know, feeling sorry for myself and
kind of like that whole self pity, like well I
could have, I should have, and I would have and
I wanted to. So I picked myself up and I
brushed myself off, and pretty much, you know, you can
whine and be a little bitch, you know, or pick
(17:02):
yourself up on your feet and be a man and
move forward and things.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
So in the last time I saw Paul, uh, I
think it was was that the Legends or remember when
he was under that the ten big event.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
Yes, I actually spoke to Paul for a good half hour,
forty minutes, you know. Yeah, you know, he actually said
he actually sent out security to find me, uh, and
they asked me to go back and see him.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, walk through, and I was clean, I was sober,
I looked very good.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
His eyes were wise.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Oh my god, you know, I mean, I don't know
what he expected to see, you know, and you know,
he he he saw a guy that didn't, you know,
fold down his ass and stay down. H kind of
it ended with that very very positive you know, And
I mean it's it's really you know, I can't you know,
(18:08):
I just have to say that, you know, I'm here
today because of that one single opportunity that extended over
on and off over eight years. You know, from ninety
three to right around two thousand and again, nobody was
(18:29):
really banging down my door. And I'm sure others can
attest to that as well.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
You know. Therefore, you know, we had that opportunity. So
it's like you want to look at it last half full,
half empty. I choose to look at it from the
more positive aspect, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And ultimately, ultimately it is ECW that allowed me the
opportunity to continue.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
Doing what what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
And you know, I am my sixties now, and I
you know, I'm still very active. You know, I have
my own little promotion, Assault Championship Wrestling.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
We're doing very well. I'm trying to bring it here
into New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
It was very very popular, very active years ago. In fact,
I think you worked with as.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I did work for you several times in Connecticut, yep.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
And it did very well over there.
Speaker 7 (19:30):
You know.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Now this is another territory in New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
New Jersey is uh, pretty pretty oversaturated with professional wrestling.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
A lot of it is god awful, but a lot
of it is very good. A lot of it is
very good. Okay, you know, I mean, you know, you've
got established companies out there that you know you have
to contend with, and you know, we're just trying to
re establish our product over here. And since my studio,
(20:01):
my pro Wrestling Dojo, Okay Wrestling School, and it's absolutely beautiful.
My wife and I had built this from the ground up,
everything from a brand new ring to brand new chairs everything,
you know, everything we have here. We're completely fully self contained, audio, video, lighting,
(20:25):
everything possible, you know. Yeah, and again, you know, it's
not like I rolled out of the bed and decided.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
I'm going to do this. It took. It took a
lot of years, you know. It took for that working
for w c W and.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Ww F, being an enhancement talent, traveling here there, going
to Japan, going to different places Canada, came in islands here.
I mean, you know, since since nineteen eighties, you know,
I've been doing this something like mid eighties, you know,
so it's been a very very long Finally, I believe
(21:04):
that it is ECW that brought me to this point
here where I can actually do this and I'm doing
something I love to do.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Yeah, no, I I agree with you who hardly one
hundred percent. I always say, if Paul didn't give me
a chance, I wouldn't be sitting here, you know, I
wouldn't be still doing conventions and doing there's an indie.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Show and stuff like that, So I I will never
bash Paul.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Yeah, you also worked her tail off.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
We all did, We all did. We We had a
very hard working locker.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Room, very hard working locker room, and you know, there
were magical times. And I know a lot of people
it always goes back to, well, what about this, what
about that?
Speaker 5 (21:49):
What about fights? What about drugs? What about alcohol? And
all that?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, look, that's self explanatory. I mean how many how
many more times do we have to repeat, you know,
the same question over and over again. The formula doesn't change,
you know, the laws of physics will not change.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
It is what it is. But the fact still.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Remains that all in all, you know, I believe that
ninety five percent if not more, of us in that
locker room really cared for one another, you know, and
we worked with one another. And then five percent or
maybe even more, we were very selfless.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
We were not selfish.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
We gave a lot in order to help that brother
out and help that sister out and at the same
time hopefully do something good for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
I had I had Tom and Cairo on the show,
and he's one of the few that did not like
ECW and did not put it over and did not
put Paul over and couldn't understand, couldn't understand why I
have had such high praises, Yeah, I know, for the company.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And I was trying to explain.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
I said, you know, I understand that you had a
bad experience, but that doesn't mean that I had a
bad experience.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I had a great experience.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
There's a lot of hurt there, you know, And I
mean the fact still remains that you know, you have
to play ball.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
You know, if you were if you if you're interested.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
In breaking into any sort of industry, whatever that may be,
You've got to play ball. You know, you have to know,
you have to know your lane. You have to stay
in that lane. You have to you have to know
your role. And you cannot go in there thinking that
(23:47):
you know, the world owes you a living just because
I say so. I know there's a you know, a
lot of hurt there that you know, other guys have
succeeded where uh some other guys failed and everything.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
And you know I have an answer for that too.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
You know, a lot of a lot of people bitch
about Tommy Dreamer, Okay, that he made it to a
certain point and everything and I'll tell you what out
of my experience, Okay. Uh, people that work hard, and
there's great meaning, they don't drink, they don't take drugs.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Uh, they do their work, they take it seriously, all right.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
They don't obliviate their brain with substances, people, things, situations
that are not necessarily good for you. They tend to
go further in life versus a person that flows his
or her brain with you know, either substance abuse h
(24:55):
and or negativity, anger, anger issues, uh, hard headedness mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
Now on the.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Flip side, you could say, yeah, but look at the Sandman. Well,
on the flip side, it really doesn't matter because he
worked hard mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
And for whoever he was, whatever he did, he was over.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
He was uh that that group of people that they
were over. They could do anything that you know, he
could take a piss in the middle of the ring,
you know, and people would have popped because he was
you know, he created that that image among that crowd.
You know, that that that vast majority of her hardcore
(25:41):
fans that wanted to see that.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Now, and there's.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Always going to be that guy or that group of
people that will be used uh as an enhancement.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Mm hmm. These would be superstars because.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
You have the suits in the back, for instance, Paul Hayman, Todd, whoever, right.
You know, they see what's going on, they know who's
the money maker. They see what makes money, what draws money.
And it's simply and strictly business.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Nothing personal, you know. And sometimes you are the guy.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
That is responsible and you have the job of rolling
out the carpet.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
For these other guys.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, and it depends on Listen. I did it a
million times, and I did it for everybody and anybody.
You know, he ambition to complained because you know, in
my opinion, it was if I can do this, and
I can do this better than anyone else, I will
be respected for that, and you know, loyalty will be
(26:58):
shown toward me. And uh, I was shown a lot
of loyally, you know. And again Paul always said, you know,
I will never fire fire you.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
You know, you're only going to fire yourself. And that's
exactly what happened. You know.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Well, so as far as you know now, uh being well,
it should have been me and you know, uh uh,
this guy's a jerk off. And I and I did
this and I and I did that. Well, think back
of what your attitude was like, wanting to be in
an industry, in a company, yet you don't want to
(27:32):
play ball. You want to do everything your way, you
don't want to co operate, and you know what, they're
going to use it.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
For something dirty and get ridded. Very end the story.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
See everyone who.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
If you are enjoying the interview so far, please tune
in on Thursday for part two.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
Yeah, Scene France an Extreme Extreme Odds up here, head head,
the Queen Extreme Podcast IDEs up here. Hey, head the
Queen Extreme Podcast. It's the Queen of Extreme Union, the
(28:13):
letter she is the Woman nifty dreams legend on the
Scene frand Scene Podcast.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
What you mean? What your trailblady to show you what
you need?
Speaker 6 (28:20):
You've fender stand the Queens from the beginning of time.
Odds here our heart radio shine only head and tell
you a story from the where the Legend odds up here,
The Queen Nobody's like Fresh Scene IDEs up here here here,
The Queen Extreme Podcast IDEs up here here Head the
(28:41):
Queen Extreme Podcast odds up here here, hand the Queen
Extreme Podcast odds up here here The Queen Extreme Podcast
Podcast at
H m hm hm hm hm h.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
H Hey everyone, it is UNI. It spring drinking and
you are listening to ipe up there with drinking. And
I heard it was a network or where it did
the podcast. There's always I need gooins.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm a said, what up?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
What up? How going on?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
I'm doing great? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I'm doing alright, doing all right.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Had a good weekend, went the four, did the boardwalk,
We did some rides.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I watched a surfing competition on the beach.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It was a really fun weekend. Kids had a good time,
so did we.
Speaker 6 (01:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, I liked it.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Surfing competition. I'm thinking thinking Batman versus the Joker.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
You know, well, my window was like an ocean view
and I'm sitting at the window and I noticed all
these people and I was like, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
And next thing I know, they're in the ocean.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I was like, it can't be a cold plunge because
it wasn't freezing all right.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
And then I saw them surfing and I was like,
oh wow.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
And then there must have been like a ceremony where
they all got like prizes and stuff. Oh wow, that
was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Nobody named the big Kahuna walking around.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I don't know, but I wanted to get out there
and try it. But I'm scared of I'm scared of sharks.
Oh my look, I give fit and die.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So you know what happened over the weekend here a
tornado went through about uh one town over.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Wow. Yeah, yeah, scary.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah Friday. But what's weirdest is where I am, even
though it's the same county, Like we're protected by some
weird bubble. So it was like the Wizard of Oz
weather in one town over. And we did like a
little like little sprinkle, like the little watering can of rain,
and yeah, this funnel cloud tornado swept through really quickly.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
That is scary, man. I'm glad, uh glad everybody's okay
over there.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Yeah, it rained like it got really dark because we
were there for Friday to Sunday and it got really
really dark. And then uh, we wanted to walk down
to a restaurant that was on the boardwalk and it
was like raining, not hard though, so we put on
We didn't have an umbrella, but we put our hoodies on.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
With our hoods. The four of us are just running
running down the boardwalk, in the rain. It was actually fun.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
But uh, I think we're going to go back, maybe
late July or August something like that, do it again.
But it was a good time. I really enjoy it.
I really like it, you know. I laid out today,
tried to get some sun. I need some sun. Big
weekend coming up. We'll talk about it later, but I
(03:19):
am white as a ghost. I am Casper the Friendly, so.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I'm gonna try and lay out. We're getting a heat wave.
It's supposed to be in the eighties and nineties this week.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
So the pool is ready to go, and hopefully my
big ass will be in there.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
For the next three days until I have to leave
on Friday. So yeah, that's that's my plans for the week.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
That sounds like a plan right there.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Jim Tanned Laundry. Did you ever hear that before on GTL?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
Just pump my way through, uh Saint Augustine this weekend
being the franchise and Bambi so again, well we'll.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Plug that at the end. Our guest needs a moment.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
So he'll be stopping by in a few but otherwise, uh,
nothing else going on there.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
No, you know here, we're chill here, you know, no
gt L going on here.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Just the just the l any drinking.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
No, well a little bit, yes, but here's our guests
coming out.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Our guests right now. Okay, well never mind, we'll talk
about that later. Is he in?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
He's in? You want to introduce?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (04:30):
I have another good friend of mine and he c
W original alum, the great Jason Knight, the sexiest man alive.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Look at him in a studio. Look at you. I
love it.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Very nice.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Sanctuary over here.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
You are the professional, my friend. How are you?
Speaker 4 (04:49):
You know I went for years not seeing Jason, and
now I see you all the time.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
It's great, It is great.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I'm glad because you know, it's the to know that
we're still around and we're healthy and you know, doing
what we do.
Speaker 5 (05:04):
You know, it's always good to uh, the more of us,
the better, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
I always say when Shane and I do these signings,
we always get the Triple Threat promo picture with me, Shane,
Bamdam and Chris, and there's always two signatures that are missing,
and it just breaks my heart every time. So when
I get to see you guys and know that we're
thriving and we're healthy, it's just it's everything because our
(05:31):
locker room we have such a bad like I guess
you could say, reputation, and there's so many people who
have come above that and are thriving. And so it's
always good to see a fellow brother and you know,
happy to see you, happy you're here, thank you, Yeah,
(05:52):
happy to have you on. So I want to I
want to talk about the current state what you're doing,
because you're doing great things. But I just want to
go back a little bit, well a lot, probably thirty
two years back. So Jason is one of the first
guys that I literally feuded with. And first of all,
(06:16):
I have to I do this all the time. I
have to say thank you because you were you were
so gracious with the role that you were given with me.
You let me beat the absolute snot out of you
every single time, and you sold it like a champ.
And I always felt so bad because here's little me
(06:36):
and these big guys and they're selling for me, and
I'm thinking to myself, oh my god, they're gonna all
hate me. But you were such a pleasure to work
with every single time. So I wanted to say thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Okay, And you know what it is, we all need
to realize that we are in a form of show
business and if we can do something well entertain our
fans our spectators, that means that we are doing something right.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
And now if we're gonna have a big head and try.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
To almost make it into like, you know, the real world,
you know, well, this is impossible. I'm not going to
sell for this one or that one. I'm not gonna
put this one over because he's too green or he's
too small, that type of thing. That's the wrong approach
in our industry. And I believe that longevity lies in
(07:39):
the fact that so many of us do cooperate, and
that's why we were welcome to come back to work,
and that's why we lasted for all the years that
we lasted in one single company.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
You are the only person I have to say that
the Bronco buster, and he bought me so huge, he
would hold me there and not let me get He's
the only one.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Who ever did that. But I found it so freaking funny.
It was hilarious, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
But yeah, I've said it so many times, like the
guys that you know, I worked with, because Paul made
me look like a superhero and I wasn't. I was
this little, skinny little girl who had big balls and
wouldn't you know, do anything practically in the ring. But you,
you were just you were such a joy to work
(08:35):
with every single time, and you never know, I'm not
going to do this. You sold all the time and
it was just it was so fun working with you.
So I just wanted to start that off and say
thank you for that.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
I mean, likewise, I had a great time.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And you know, and again, you know, if something bothers
you a certain spot or an angle, you know, there's
always that door, you know. Yeah, and you know again
you know, to me, it's a job, and it's a
fun job.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
It's there's something on a thing coming. Can you see me?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
I can see you.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Okay, that's fine then because on the screen we can
see it. I can't read because I'm not allowed to
wear my glasses, but in any case I can't see.
So in any case, you know, and especially in this
particular industry, you know, if we're not going to cooperate,
we need to find some other form of work. And okay,
(09:40):
so getting back to the whole thing, I enjoyed it
very much.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
I love professional wrestling. I love entertaining.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I love the whole aspect physical sports entertainment, the way
the storylines can go.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
In a million directions.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And of course, you know, we had a very very
creative genius, you know, and Paul Hayman, so it was.
Speaker 5 (10:02):
Definitely a roller coaster ride with him.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
So a lot of those angles were a lot of
fun because we pushed the envelope and sometimes we made
the unbelievable believable. And I also have to say that
I feel very privileged and lucky that in ninety three
I was given an opportunity at Eastern Championship President, which
(10:29):
of course.
Speaker 5 (10:30):
Became extreme.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Because at that time, and especially you know, I was
coming off of a pretty bad back surgery, bad injury
just at of back surgery a few months prior to
my debut. So Paul getting opportunity when nobody was really
banging down my door, you know, so many of us
(10:58):
share that same.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
Experience, you know, and that circumstance.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So I feel that, you know, we were given an
opportunity and it's something also to create something very very
special during the times where wrestling was very mundane, it
was what it was, you know, everything was like black
and white. You had your heels, you had your faces,
(11:23):
you had your fans were more or less programmed as
far as how to react, and we pushed that on
the open, you know, and especially with things that you
and I did. It was because in most other companies,
nothing like that ever ever occurred, you know, so in
(11:47):
a way, we were the first ones to.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
To put it out there.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
And I think we've got a great reaction, because all
I remember is whether I was in that corner of
you uncle bosting or or beating me up, and then
you know, I wouldn't even have to open my eyes
to see the reaction.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
You could just hear it. You know. Yeah, you did
something right, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I always walked away very very satisfied.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
I'm very satisfied and.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Proud of the fact that we were able to do
something a lot different than just you know, two wrestlers
entertaining the crowd one two three, ding ding ding next,
you know, like a conveyor belt, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
So I think we did something very special.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I totally agree. I want to fast forward a little
bit to just incredible. Okay, So you were paired with
PJ for a while, and then I remember because I
wasn't told from what I can recall, I wasn't told
too much ahead of time.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I don't I don't know if anybody ever was.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
It was kind of like, you know, Paul would call
you like the week before, the night before and say, oh,
I'm doing this, this and this.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
It was sometimes it.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Was on the fly, sometimes it was the night of
the show or whatever. But I remember the night that
I turned on Dreamer when he won the belt and
I went with PJ. And you know, it was from
my understanding going forward, it was supposed to be me,
PJ and you, and then something happened to where you
(13:34):
were kind of gone.
Speaker 7 (13:37):
Yeah, well well I was gone pretty much in definitely indefinitely,
other than being brought back a couple of times for
the the E.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
C W W W E version pay per views, and
you know that that was well, you know, that was
the beginning of the end for as far as what
we were. But yeah, you know, I mean there was
just a set of circumstances you know that I I was,
(14:09):
uh toward the end.
Speaker 5 (14:11):
You know, I was very.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Unhappy there, you know, because I did not fit into
that managerial world. You know, I always felt like and
no one's fault as far as the people that I'm
working with, uh, I felt that they should have kind
of let me do something else because I was really
(14:31):
into that whole fitness programing and and getting into great shape,
you know, and I proved many many times. I mean,
you know, I'm a wrestler, you know, Uh, I can manage.
I can do, uh whatever you want me to do.
But you know, wrestling is what I wanted to do.
And even Paul and I spoke spoke about it, you know,
(14:52):
and he was saying that he wanted to pretty much
have me do something else and I was waiting, waiting.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
It wasn't open. So my attitude was a little bit
off at that time.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
You know, I didn't walk around the locker room and
you know, moping or being angry at at anyone is
just you know, the you could feel those vibes, you know,
like between Paul and I and all that.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
That was about.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
That was actually the last time that my my very
last e c w as as an Extreme Championship Wrestling
without the WWE.
Speaker 5 (15:33):
That was my very last time, you know. When PJ
won the belt, we.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Returned, and you know then I just stopped getting booth
certain things happened, you know, that were you know, I
guess between Paul and I, and you know, he he
felt I guess he felt hurt and he felt you know,
he felt angry. He felt like he needed to punish me.
You know, see, he never released me out of my contract.
(15:58):
You know, so when and the time when the call
came for me to go to w CW, I couldn't
because I was never released out of that contract. I mean,
you know, just to clarify that, and yes, I did
receive a call.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
So I kind of just lingered and did nothing.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
And then I came to one more show in Poughkeepsie,
I think, and I asked him for a release and
he said, well, you know, see me in a half hour.
And of course, you know, the came and went, you know,
and whatever listing water under the bridge, he had his reasons.
I have absolutely no ill will nothing. It took me
(16:39):
a little while, you know, feeling sorry for myself and
kind of like that whole self pity, like well I
could have, I should have, and I would have and
I wanted to. So I picked myself up and I
brushed myself off, and pretty much, you know, you can
whine and be a little bitch, you know, or pick
(17:02):
yourself up on your feet and be a man and
move forward and things.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
You know.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
So in the last time I saw Paul, uh, I
think it was was that the Legends or remember when
he was under that the ten big event.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
Yes, I actually spoke to Paul for a good half hour,
forty minutes, you know. Yeah, you know, he actually said
he actually sent out security to find me, uh, and
they asked me to go back and see him.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, walk through, and I was clean, I was sober,
I looked very good.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
His eyes were wise.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Oh my god, you know, I mean, I don't know
what he expected to see, you know, and you know,
he he he saw a guy that didn't, you know,
fold down his ass and stay down. H kind of
it ended with that very very positive you know, And
I mean it's it's really you know, I can't you know,
(18:08):
I just have to say that, you know, I'm here
today because of that one single opportunity that extended over
on and off over eight years. You know, from ninety
three to right around two thousand and again, nobody was
(18:29):
really banging down my door. And I'm sure others can
attest to that as well.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
You know. Therefore, you know, we had that opportunity. So
it's like you want to look at it last half full,
half empty. I choose to look at it from the
more positive aspect, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
And ultimately, ultimately it is ECW that allowed me the
opportunity to continue.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
Doing what what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
And you know, I am my sixties now, and I
you know, I'm still very active. You know, I have
my own little promotion, Assault Championship Wrestling.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
We're doing very well. I'm trying to bring it here
into New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
It was very very popular, very active years ago. In fact,
I think you worked with as.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I did work for you several times in Connecticut, yep.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
And it did very well over there.
Speaker 7 (19:30):
You know.
Speaker 5 (19:30):
Now this is another territory in New Jersey.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
New Jersey is uh, pretty pretty oversaturated with professional wrestling.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
A lot of it is god awful, but a lot
of it is very good. A lot of it is
very good. Okay, you know, I mean, you know, you've
got established companies out there that you know you have
to contend with, and you know, we're just trying to
re establish our product over here. And since my studio,
(20:01):
my pro Wrestling Dojo, Okay Wrestling School, and it's absolutely beautiful.
My wife and I had built this from the ground up,
everything from a brand new ring to brand new chairs everything,
you know, everything we have here. We're completely fully self contained, audio, video, lighting,
(20:25):
everything possible, you know. Yeah, and again, you know, it's
not like I rolled out of the bed and decided.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
I'm going to do this. It took. It took a
lot of years, you know. It took for that working
for w c W and.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Ww F, being an enhancement talent, traveling here there, going
to Japan, going to different places Canada, came in islands here.
I mean, you know, since since nineteen eighties, you know,
I've been doing this something like mid eighties, you know,
so it's been a very very long Finally, I believe
(21:04):
that it is ECW that brought me to this point
here where I can actually do this and I'm doing
something I love to do.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
You know.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Yeah, no, I I agree with you who hardly one
hundred percent. I always say, if Paul didn't give me
a chance, I wouldn't be sitting here, you know, I
wouldn't be still doing conventions and doing there's an indie.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Show and stuff like that, So I I will never
bash Paul.
Speaker 5 (21:32):
Yeah, you also worked her tail off.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
We all did, We all did. We We had a
very hard working locker.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Room, very hard working locker room, and you know, there
were magical times. And I know a lot of people
it always goes back to, well, what about this, what
about that?
Speaker 5 (21:49):
What about fights? What about drugs? What about alcohol? And
all that?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, look, that's self explanatory. I mean how many how
many more times do we have to repeat, you know,
the same question over and over again. The formula doesn't change,
you know, the laws of physics will not change.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
It is what it is. But the fact still.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Remains that all in all, you know, I believe that
ninety five percent if not more, of us in that
locker room really cared for one another, you know, and
we worked with one another. And then five percent or
maybe even more, we were very selfless.
Speaker 5 (22:30):
We were not selfish.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
We gave a lot in order to help that brother
out and help that sister out and at the same
time hopefully do something good for ourselves.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
I had I had Tom and Cairo on the show,
and he's one of the few that did not like
ECW and did not put it over and did not
put Paul over and couldn't understand, couldn't understand why I
have had such high praises, Yeah, I know, for the company.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And I was trying to explain.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
I said, you know, I understand that you had a
bad experience, but that doesn't mean that I had a
bad experience.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I had a great experience.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
There's a lot of hurt there, you know, And I
mean the fact still remains that you know, you have
to play ball.
Speaker 5 (23:20):
You know, if you were if you if you're interested.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
In breaking into any sort of industry, whatever that may be,
You've got to play ball. You know, you have to know,
you have to know your lane. You have to stay
in that lane. You have to you have to know
your role. And you cannot go in there thinking that
(23:47):
you know, the world owes you a living just because
I say so. I know there's a you know, a
lot of hurt there that you know, other guys have
succeeded where uh some other guys failed and everything.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
And you know I have an answer for that too.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
You know, a lot of a lot of people bitch
about Tommy Dreamer, Okay, that he made it to a
certain point and everything and I'll tell you what out
of my experience, Okay. Uh, people that work hard, and
there's great meaning, they don't drink, they don't take drugs.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Uh, they do their work, they take it seriously, all right.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
They don't obliviate their brain with substances, people, things, situations
that are not necessarily good for you. They tend to
go further in life versus a person that flows his
or her brain with you know, either substance abuse h
(24:55):
and or negativity, anger, anger issues, uh, hard headedness mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
Now on the.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Flip side, you could say, yeah, but look at the Sandman. Well,
on the flip side, it really doesn't matter because he
worked hard mm hmm.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
And for whoever he was, whatever he did, he was over.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
He was uh that that group of people that they
were over. They could do anything that you know, he
could take a piss in the middle of the ring,
you know, and people would have popped because he was
you know, he created that that image among that crowd.
You know, that that that vast majority of her hardcore
(25:41):
fans that wanted to see that.
Speaker 5 (25:43):
Now, and there's.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Always going to be that guy or that group of
people that will be used uh as an enhancement.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Mm hmm. These would be superstars because.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
You have the suits in the back, for instance, Paul Hayman, Todd, whoever, right.
You know, they see what's going on, they know who's
the money maker. They see what makes money, what draws money.
And it's simply and strictly business.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Nothing personal, you know. And sometimes you are the guy.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
That is responsible and you have the job of rolling
out the carpet.
Speaker 5 (26:35):
For these other guys.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, and it depends on Listen. I did it a
million times, and I did it for everybody and anybody.
You know, he ambition to complained because you know, in
my opinion, it was if I can do this, and
I can do this better than anyone else, I will
be respected for that, and you know, loyalty will be
(26:58):
shown toward me. And uh, I was shown a lot
of loyally, you know. And again Paul always said, you know,
I will never fire fire you.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
You know, you're only going to fire yourself. And that's
exactly what happened. You know.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Well, so as far as you know now, uh being well,
it should have been me and you know, uh uh,
this guy's a jerk off. And I and I did
this and I and I did that. Well, think back
of what your attitude was like, wanting to be in
an industry, in a company, yet you don't want to
(27:32):
play ball. You want to do everything your way, you
don't want to co operate, and you know what, they're
going to use it.
Speaker 5 (27:38):
For something dirty and get ridded. Very end the story.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
See everyone who.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
If you are enjoying the interview so far, please tune
in on Thursday for part two.
Speaker 6 (27:51):
Yeah, Scene France an Extreme Extreme Odds up here, head head,
the Queen Extreme Podcast IDEs up here. Hey, head the
Queen Extreme Podcast. It's the Queen of Extreme Union, the
(28:13):
letter she is the Woman nifty dreams legend on the
Scene frand Scene Podcast.
Speaker 5 (28:17):
What you mean? What your trailblady to show you what
you need?
Speaker 6 (28:20):
You've fender stand the Queens from the beginning of time.
Odds here our heart radio shine only head and tell
you a story from the where the Legend odds up here,
The Queen Nobody's like Fresh Scene IDEs up here here here,
The Queen Extreme Podcast IDEs up here here Head the
(28:41):
Queen Extreme Podcast odds up here here, hand the Queen
Extreme Podcast odds up here here The Queen Extreme Podcast
Podcast at
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