May 29, 2025 • 52 mins
This week on Eyes Up Here, Francine sits down with the man who started it all—Tod Gordon, the original mastermind behind ECW. They dive into how the company got off the ground, wild backstage stories, and what he really thinks about the legacy of Extreme. If you’re an ECW die-hard, you don’t want to miss this one.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
H h.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
God, long, how you do it?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh? My god?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Street everything?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Can you Grande and Queen Streets.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
I was just saying in your long intro that you
were the first person that I met that had anything
to do you know, with Eastern w.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
You were the first person when my dad drove me
to Carver w Ran to see you and and I
had to perform at the arena.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
You made me because because in the beginning I thought
I was going to be a wrestler and I.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Was training to actually work. And do you remember coming
down and watching me and the angel Amaronso have a match?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yes, well it wasn't dotish did. When when I was
done working, I was so nervous. Remember I ran to
the bathroom and I threw my guts up.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I could out. It was all mile off of this thing.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
But you was so nice to me, and you were
the first face that I that I knew, And you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Were such a young restival kids U today and you
ended up becoming since a quick and amazing I was
you when you're snow serious paint spot making a ta bunk.
I just took a little kid who walked to my
store that first thing, like.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Wow, I was so scared to come in when I
saw the bar and I had to run the doorsoll
I was like, I look back at.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
My dad and I was like, but I didn't want
to think him in with babe. But I was like,
I'm a big girl, I could do this.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, that would have been rough for twenty dattore.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I was twenty. I was twenty years old.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Yeah, I was a baby and thirty one years ago, right,
I've been It's been thirty years since I've been working,
so yeah, almost thirty one.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Wow, you've never heard glasses.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
For those old hotel takes some change, you know. It's like,
but how portal? How are you feeling?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Are you dry?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You have seen Gospers about the real bought the uber mood.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I haven't been doing at Sattle. I saw was yeah,
but it's working for you and that's great, but so true.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I was wanting with heat a pretty so down like
some chance I had to go getting shots. And believe me,
he looks like as hackled doctor Bombay from Bewitched. I mean,
these guys are really like out there and uh wait,
I'm serious. I'm telling you about this doctor. You got
to hear the story. You got you know.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, yeah, I went there and he's talked about the
Semstell place.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
The first time I walk in, the guy says, look
at me. I used to a car accident, I broke
my back. I walked with two canes and then after
the stem cells, I threw them away. I'm like a
new person, right. He gives me shots. Go back three
weeks later for the second set, he walks in with
a cane. Isn't I thought you didn't need canes anymore?
(03:43):
Ready for this? He says, yeah, well, I had a
few too many Vodkas last night, like six, and this
helped me my balance. For the statement, I said, I'm
out of her town? Are you crazy? Needles me.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Out drinking? They took us the out drinking one night
across me.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
This guy knows you ship. Okay, Sure enough shots and
it didn't work. Yeah good.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I'm glad because when you were looking rough when I
saw you, you could barely walk.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
When I couldn't sit, I couldn't stand it could do
anything right?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Oh he got rid of all that stuff? Was doctor?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Well?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
I was so happy to see you at the arena
because I hadn't been there in like almost fourteen years
and Todd was one of the first faces I saw,
So it was so good to see you again.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
It had been a long time since I've.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Seen you, really long time. Yeah, five years?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Is it really?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Well? Yeah? Probably?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Why aren't you making now I know with the book,
we're going to get into the book in a second,
but why aren't you granted, you have a business, your businessman,
I get it, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Why aren't you making the reims on you know, the
signing circuit with all of us, Well, when they're local,
you know, I go, it's a hard part ride a.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Plane, you know, when he's got to bring in like
five six o'clock in the morning to throw up in
a motel six or something. It's not my style. But
you know, I'm gonder something in New York And now
that of course, none of the books are being asked,
actually asking a whole lot before. So maybe that's why
I wasn't on the circuit. You know, hello remember me?
So you know I'm doing them all over the place
(05:32):
in Queens and Yonkers the same day, uh, in August,
I'm doing at a Museum's going to film museum. We're
doing signing. They bought a bunch of books and the
cane Field wrestle Fest in New York to got a
wrestling store doing them, and they're buying books, and so
I'm getting out there.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Now, Okay, well you should, you should be out there.
I started reading the book. I'm very busy. I have
a very busy life, but I did start.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Reading it, and I'm telling you, I didn't want to
put it down. I know it's you know, I know
most of the stories, but some of them.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
You know, I didn't partake your world after hours. But
I'm telling you I I literally did not.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Want to book the book that I was laughing out loud.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I was just in awe.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I'm saying to myself, Man, I thought this was just
an urban.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Legend, but it happened, you know what I mean. It's
such so far, it's such a good read. I'm going
to finish it hopefully this weekend.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I'm home.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
But telling stories. I mean, it's like you read the
book like the guy just sit next to you telling
you the stories about the craziest body you heard your life, right.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
No, I'm telling you it has been such a good
read for me so far, and I know whoever reads
it is going to want to, you know, get their
hands on it and and tell their.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Friends because I love it.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
So far, so far, so good. I'm gonna say that,
and I'm sure there's more debauchery to come.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Chad, do tell the story list right before about the
same man in the carpet in the hotel.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
It was it was yeah, Sean had gone into it,
but it's probably the it's the I think it's just
to bring the house down story.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Let's tell this story. But first, I just want to
thank the tg R five dollars super Chat. Thank you
for coming, he says, my w CW the Queen looking
great as always. Thank you, sir. You're going in the
char Chip jar.
Speaker 6 (07:34):
That is his woman crush Wednesday.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Yes, anybody who gives us, uh do you remember Charles
Chips the Philly thing, right, I have the Charles chip jars,
So anyone who gives us super Chats, we auction off
a prize at the end of the stream and he
goes in the Charlie jar. Used to call Charlie, Yeah,
Charlie Chips, but it says Charles on it, so I
(07:57):
just call it Charles Chips. Uh ross and found two
dollars super Chat Todd your thoughts on Joel Goodheart and
Wrestling Radio, and then after this question we'll get to
that story.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I want to hear it.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
If it wasn't for Joel Goodheart and Wrestler Radio, I
would never been in the business. There had never been
at ECW, there had never been out of to era
because one thing that's led it to another to another.
It was the Chamber of Events. And without Joe Goodhart,
like I said, no one know who I am. I
mean in terms of the rest of the world, and
I would have ever gone into it. So I have
nothing to respect for him.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
And this was like the bar shows back in the day.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
He was doing bar shows me. Also, the reason he
went out of business was doing the show the Civic
Center four times a year, which is a very expensive
building to run. I mean thousands of dollars just to
have the guy gument and turn the electricity on. Its
all you uni ened up. And he would bring in
anybody and everybody who was out there who was under contract.
(08:54):
It was gonna be there are free birds and cactus
and the Eddie. It was Austin I l. Jerry Wall
or Buddy Rogers, Buddy Rich. I mean it was crazy.
I mean, he would just bring in every piece of
talent out there thinking that was we wanted to go.
But he wasn't able to sell the shows enough to
get the money to pay these guys, and that's what
(09:16):
he went under.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
I see, Okay, should we take this question or should
we let him tell the story.
Speaker 6 (09:22):
Let's let's take the question and then let's get to
the story.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Am I I five dollars? Super chat? Hi Todd? Can
you speak a little bit about Nancy Sullivan and your
memories of her?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
All through this book there's a theme about Nancy Sullivan
and how much she meant to be, how much she
meant to Sam, and how much she meant to Phonsie Scorpio.
She was like a sister, a mother, a daughter. She
played like every role off his nails. But she didn't
mess around and she didn't do anything but business the
right way. And I just love Nancy. So what happened
(09:57):
to her? To me, maybe it was tragically All the
years I've been involved with wrestling, that is just horrendous.
I can't even say the guy's name, to be honestly,
I just hate that songer but so much. You have
no idea Nancy was everything to me. I remember.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Being at the Travelodge.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
You remember when we would go to like the Top
Florida shoot the promos. I just remember her being drunk
and singing like the old timey songs, like just just
singing like, uh, Frank Sinatra.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It's called classic rock?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Okay, that's what you want to call it.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
That's my because I only got to I think I
only got to work with her one time, believe it
or not, just one time, and I think it was
oh god, what was that building called when we were
up on a.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Mountain Jim Thorpe. Jim Thorpe, Never remember that damn building.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
That's where I worked with her, and she caned me
or something really early in my career, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Because she didn't stay long after I got there. She
had gone to w c W.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
She stayed for a while. Kevin, her husband left without her.
He left her.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, but I never got to like maybe it was
a year if that. Like, I never got to work
with her at all.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
She was very involved with the old Katie Ang old
Dreamer and saman and you know Mikey all that. Yeah. Yeah,
she was perfect. She was really good but she was
a better person. She really was. I remember I stayed
with her and Kevin de Condo in Florida. We were
doing Florida Run. She was just everything about her was nice.
Yet she carried a knife in her boot.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
She was a dollar a yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
All right, tell us about the story. Let's let's get
into that one story first.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
All right, what good story, entice? People don't want to
read the book. We're in a hotel room, the Travel Lodge.
Travel Lodge hotel we all stayed in once a month.
We had the Philadelphie shows, part of me, sam an Scorpio, myself,
Delafonso also out of nowhere in the drinking a beer,
seven goes yo, is this room seven o five? We'ren
(12:11):
look at other? Yeah, oh my god. He runs to
the corner and he starts digging up the carpet. I said, heck,
what are you doing. I gonna pay for that ship.
Don't do that. Don't rip the carpet, just pull the
car pulling out an eight ball cocaine. God. Now understand
we've now stayed in this hotel six times since he
(12:34):
put it there. He completely forgot. So it was the
room seven oh five that her mind, like, oh yeah,
seven o five. At the time, he was going back
to Utah for during the week, and so he would
take it on the plane. But six months before we
rud remember he did that A score were marking out
(12:56):
in the hallway and I right behind him, giant planner
by the elevator. You help me listen. We're now flowing
on the floor, living so loud. Only put a quarterbown
to at the cooke somewhere and not remember for six
months after that.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
It's like a dog digging up an old bone or something.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
How funny. He was great, the best.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Hanging out with him was nothing but fun hilarious.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
That was incredible. That his description though in the book,
of the whole aesthetic of everything about it, like what
he's wearing and everything. It's just hilarious. The whole thing
is just is perfectly described.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Kim just wants to say, Hey, She's just saying hi,
and she loves E. C. W. Todd.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Hey, Kim, thank you so much, Kim.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
We appreciate you. Let me see. Let me ask you
a question. I know this story. I don't know how
many of the people watching this story. Can you tell
us how you got that? Todd is godline.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Absolutely. There was a guy named Paul Bellace we called
Sign Guy who eventually signed Guy. Dudley was there to
anti sign Guy guy. But he's the fan of the
front Roads, the coming by, you know kicks, very show by,
you know, four time five at a time ahead of time.
He was our biggest fan. He had signs for everything
(14:23):
and everyone, and he knew things that I don't know
how he knew.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
He was psychic.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
No, he knew, he knew when people were going to turn,
he knew, he knew all the angles.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I'm with you. I don't know how he was. He kneto,
a stooge or something.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Was when we had Rick Rude come in and nobody
the dressing room was there and this guy's hoarded up
a sign says, hey, Rude, don't work.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
What that?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So one of the signs of the other was Todd
is God. Early on, whenever I would come out and
making annnouncements, say this guy's a fun where we're match
is gonna make for next month or whatever, they'd all
start chanting Todd as God. Yeah, that's and I always
a chance for everyone. Believe me, Fancy doesn't heard Shade
was but everybody had their own chair, had a couple.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I mean, you know, I think everybody knows.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
What they are. But I'm just saying that from pack Myers,
all the way up and down. So the guy came
out and mopped the floor what they call mop guy.
I mean, it was like it was the crowd is amazing.
We had this great symbiotic relationship with them. They were
like they were part of the show. We were part
of the show, and we just feed off of each other.
But yeah, thats God came.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
From Okay, so I know that, But there there was
there's another Todd is God story. Did you thought about
that in the book?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I think I might have, because that happens is that era,
this is that time.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
That's the one I was really referring to. I know
how you got the.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Name, Okay, this incident. Over the years, it's twenty five years.
I've seen nu Jash, I've seen Sam Man tell the
story about how they were there when this happened and
in this bizarre and they would you have no idea
Sam and stored and off the girls were in. I mean,
(16:18):
none of these people were there, none of them. It
was just me and Scorpio and Scorpik's the funniest thing
to the road. New Jack's like, yeah, I came in,
I came in. Would you have a key to our room?
When you came in and they were all naked over there?
I said, who let you in? Like it didn't happen.
It was in insane story.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
So you were saying you and this lovely lady were
by yourselves.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
No scorpio, oh scor scorp right, Okay, but they're saying
that they were there too.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Now who was more screwed up that night? Like who
was more apped up?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
You? Like?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Because you talk about drug use back in the day,
nobody had forgotten somebody else was in the room.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Listen, Shane believed he was in the room and Eddie
Gilbert got fired.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
All right, what we could go We could go over
that all day long.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Again. He said he was the booking room. There wasn't
a booking room. What is he talking about it?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Maybe they called that room the booking room because that's
where you thought of stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Happened in Paoli and that radical studio at Max Radigo's
studios where it happened. So wherever Shane's thinking, where we're
smoking whatever Hack newjack Arl knew Jackson work. He turned
it into the whole everybody was doing this and doing
narrow jaguary.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Well, how did the story get out?
Speaker 6 (17:43):
Did Scorpio tell everybody at the Scorpio tell I heard
Scorpio tell it on a shoot once.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
He thought, I mean the four of us were sort
finding Sam, so of course we would repeat the story. Basically,
Sam Man was probably the first want to find out
and from there over the years inside he was part
of the story.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Are we telling this story? So people know what the
hell we're talking about?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Girl? That's Scorpio who if you don't know and what
you know he does?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I don't know anything. I know what I hear.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
Parts of Scorpio may or may not be grossly enlarged
for those that make larger, Okay, no.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It's as large as the piers in the mirror anyway.
So he got a little crazy with the girl, and
as he was using his member, he was screaming, say
taught as God, because it just seemed like a funny
thing to do at the time. And finally she started
(18:51):
yelling to the guy he's going to say it, screaming
at her, screaming back, and people the hallway, they ever
heard of whatever it was?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
And what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Was just laughing. I thought it was very funny.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
See all these years, I thought you were banging the
girl and she was screaming todd as god.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Well she became what we called the pony. It's a
whole dog and pony story, a raven which is way
too much for now, but I'm just saying, yeah, it was. Yeah,
it was a fan. It was not a fan. It
was a rat. It wasn't a rat. It was submissive.
Maybe she was, I don't know, but Fanzie fell in
love her. Eventually took room to mama, which they hacked
(19:37):
Scorpion I even more hysterical.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
But then they broke up a little while after that.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Right, yeah, he got sober one morning. Mama, What I do?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I can't cut it up? Oh my god, I can't.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
What we gotta comment from the blue Mini Scorpio member
has its own birth certificate.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Talk about you and Phonsie because you guys, You guys
made me smile every time you guys work together for
the I mean, for those of you who don't know,
him and Phonsie were like this besties, you know, and
now they're thrown.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Into this angle where they have to work each other.
How much fun?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Well, everything was funny except being in the rings.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
We couldn't stiff.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, because we couldn't work. We were not going to
be the ones weather On the owner of the Extreme
Championship Wrestling and I got there and have a what
Tuxido Magic Cornett and Paulie or something. Come on. We
had to go out there and keep keep the you know,
the thing going, So we couldn't work. So we just
literally said, let's beat this ship out of each other. Bro,
can we do? And we lumped each other up good.
(21:04):
So anybody was a crap on that, Trust me, it
was as real as real guds.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I'm not crapping on it. I enjoyed it like I
I love it. I love the fact that when you're
one of the boys like you.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
I knew the dynamic between you and Phonsie, but then
to you guys in the ring together, it just made
me chuckle because I'm just like, yeah, they're being stiff with.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Each other and it's okay because you know, we love
each other.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah. Then we drive the Jim Thorp up that big
mountain every time because it was one of us we
got Nancy. Actually we goes fans you know you're a heel,
we're a baby face. The guy got out here and
walk the rest of the HILLI in the you can't
walk that hill. And every time we said we'll bring
(21:50):
your bags up to see up the mountain, we walk
all the way up as a rib.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
He could have just put his head down in the
car well.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Of course he said that was the rib.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
So mean, Angela Angela Dawn five dollars super chat. Hello everyone.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Was there ever a moment during a match where you
legitimately thought someone was dead?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Odd?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Did you no? Dead?
Speaker 5 (22:14):
No?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Although there was a match one time, We're honest to
god where fansie thought I was dead? True story Ross
River ice drink. Yeah yeah, Saboo and Van Dam and
Phonsie and couldn't tay that Welles is going on but
it's an ice cold heart surface. You're like a board
over it. There was no there's no match outside anywhere more. No,
(22:37):
probably not there. You know. I've seen it happen in
football a lot, but for me, I didn't know what
it was. But Sabo put me through the table. What
I had the wind knocked out of me, which I
didn't even know what that meant other than singing on TV.
The guy just lazer go Oh no, well that was me.
(22:57):
I couldn't couldn't get could do anything, And thought becomes
over his toster. You okay, And I didn't say anything, no,
Iggy nothing. We killed Tonster. We killed Tonster. He's running around.
Doster's dead, Doster dead. I'm trying to shut the fun
(23:21):
I'm fine, yeah, because I was the closest one about
being dead. But yeah, he really did believe, right, and
he killed me. Give him the iggy. I just I
couldn't do anything.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Oh my god, wasn't it you that when we had
that huge pull apart at the arena went for Gary?
When when Shane did the halo gimmick? What was was
it you that he that went up behind him and
he turned around and punched.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
You in the head.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
No, I was the first one on the ring and
it was really cool. I love watching it over again.
Literally it was literally dove through the ropes.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Okay. Somebody came up behind him and.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
He always thought it was you, And he says, I
turned around and I punched him because I thought it
was a fan.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
He goes in here, it was Todd Gordon.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I have to watch it again. I don't remember that.
I just remember him saying to me how to funck
my ain naut of her scary that we'll make it
looking better by having two fans that were planted there
from our school come over the railing, except eighty your
people came up before they got over.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I was going to say there was more than two
that jumped that railing. Because we got.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
We're not to be planning anybody. I was like, whoa,
that was scary being a Gary come to back. Gary
went to a hospital across the street at my store,
Thomas Jaffers in hospital. He finally comes in here. All
this time I was sleeping sitting up for like months
and did it the Hayles off. He was so happy
(24:55):
to do it, a jigging, he said, Gary, don't hate me,
but how did you feel about keeping the hail warm
for a little while? Longer? He looked me, brother were
talking about? I said, well, only when you leave the house,
I mean you sleep with your bed. I want people
to think he still got a broken neck. I got
(25:17):
an idea, and sure enough, and he did it so well.
What he did was when he went in the ring
for when Shane shook him. Yeah, he put his hand
in his pocket, yes, so that he couldn't brace himself
when he got went down. So it looked.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Wow, Yeah, he looked crippled.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yes, he did that amazingly. Yeah, and that made that
whole angle work like just fly. But he wouldn't keep
that ale.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
That was one of the scariest nights of my life.
I mean, I had people grabbing and punching me, and
I you know, I I take it a bunk. So
I was trying to sell, but I couldn't get my
feet to get flat on the My feet were being drug.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Our smart crowd would never go after whatever He'll say, No,
they're all smart, really really gotten them. You know. It
was like samn blinding and we actually got you know,
we got him, and we'd love we get him. And
I'm saying that the greatest baling in the world.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So smart, so scary. Here's a question for you.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Since the book has been released, has Paul Hayman reached
out to you? Have you like, when's the last time
you spoke to Paul?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Last time I spoke to Paul. That was what he
asked me to come down, taking his dv D they're
doing for the w which I did ask me once
after that, but once it came out, that's the last
time we spoke.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
So you don't know if he'd like even read the book. No,
nothing from him. Okay, do you think there's any stories
in there that he would probably challenge you one.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I don't think he'll challenge him. I mean, I think
that he's not to be happy to see them in there.
He's upset what I'm talked about what really happened, which
nobody including yourself what he knows that story, but it's
in the book.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
But I'll tell you you know what you hear.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Yeah, I still don't know why we went bankrupt, Todd,
and I was there for seven years.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
I don't know you bankrupted the company. It was me.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
That was as a fan.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
That was honestly, what I wanted to read the most
was how it all went down, that that whole transition
with you and him and how and that was the
most fascinating part to me, was how like how it
went from you to him and just that whole dynamic
with him. And it just seems like everything with him
is such like a psychological game. And I don't know,
(27:51):
it's just he's he's such an interesting guy. But it
seems like a lot of it is a manipulation game.
But I don't know, it's it's how build and drop
it is, it's you know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
One of the lines I say in the book is
I lost the game in chest that didn't even realize
I was playing.
Speaker 6 (28:08):
Yeah, it's a great line.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
That's the truth. You know, like we're getting expenses, were
getting crazy, and they're paying three thousand dollars MSG Network,
three thousand dollars a week for Sunshine Network. That's twenty
four thousand dollars a month. That's before we got to
the pay for level. There's a whole other category. The
(28:31):
reason we took those deals one was because Paul said,
we got to do New York Studio fifty four. I
got the whole show sponsor. It's done. No, every commercial
is done. They're climbing over each other's sponsor the show.
We take the deal, sign a contract, not one commercial,
(28:52):
not one, still go on, we move forward Sunshine Network.
I thought, you know, that was not him so much
as it was both of us, and we thought we
could sell commercials down there, and the guys we brought
in Howard Brody. They weren't able to sell the commercial
we thought they would. So also, we're not getting anything
back to you know, anybody buys a shirt from our advertisements,
(29:17):
and you know I can tell them what things are
getting bad and doing so much money left. You know,
I can't get twenty four thousand dollars a month, you know,
you know work and house shows, what you're paying for everything.
You're not getting that money back. So I tell them
it's ten weeks left, you got nine weeks left, eight
weeks left. It's worked. Yeah, that's how it went. And
(29:38):
I said, found an investor. I got a guy's willing
putting it, and I understand I gifted Paul forty nine
percent of the company. He'd never taken a paycheck, so
I gifted him forty nine percent of the company because
that's just where I am. I cold is standing work
for for free. So since guy wants twenty percent or
(29:58):
ten to meet of us, and we said, I'm not
giving up any of my shares. I have business in
ten weeks. What are you talking about if you wanna
up twenty cent of your shares? I said, so what's
you go? Forty nine thirty in the fifty forty nine
was the fact that someone said the last word, I
(30:18):
worried about burning the house down. You know I won't
do it, So we didn't make the deal. I gotta
call on a friend uncle work for HBO Music out
of Sony Music. HBOS would like to have a meeting
with us. Wow, never been like four weeks left. I mean, tomorrow,
(30:41):
where's the tape? It'll be there. So I have to
say the fantasy, right, it'll be there. I said, well,
this is no joke. HBO man, I got up there
in New York. Oh, there's my thumb on my butt.
Never was never there.
Speaker 6 (30:57):
Wow, Dad, I couldn't believe that was That was one
of the learning that was incredible.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That he just you know, I mean tell you this
for facts. It's for a fact. My instinct would be
that he was maneuvering at that point to get the
company because he wanted to be vincit Man, and he
give wanted to be Jerry Lawler. I wanted to be
vinced and he had to lose the greater now to
(31:23):
be me. He hated it was Todd and Paul's companies. Todd.
He wanted to be Paul's which somehow over the years
he's made that become the way people feel in the book,
I suppose why it isn't that way, And I was
never that way, and it became that way. It's okay,
but you know there's more to it than that. And
(31:45):
when I left, he was going to kill you. We
had a deal, didn't understanding. I wasn't get so much
money back, you know, I had to take so much
a month. If he didn't pay it, his family would.
I had a relationship with them, so I was gonna
get my money back. But but they end ninety seven.
(32:05):
Guys couldn't stay working there anymore. The director, which I
made a family, had become fractured. Up the wazoo. There
was a New York click, a Philly click, this click,
that click, and there was never clicks when I was
running that place. Ever. We had people hudder around towards
monitor or watch the airbus's matches, not saying, hey, I'm
(32:26):
making my own belt, made my own Yeah, they're under
my own thing, like okay, whatever you want. You know,
it was ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
See like for me, I when you say the Philly click,
I was part of that Philly click. But I was
friends with everybody, like I tried to be that.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
You weren't brought in that inner grouping of New York
or Philly. You were a great and your portos, but
so is called the enemy saboo. They weren't from Philly.
It's just that people that we were all close friends with.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Yeah, like we called the Philly Click, like everybody who
flew out of Philly Airport and then that's what we
called the Philly Click. And then like Jack, Victory and
Dreamer were part of it too because we all would
hang out together. Corino LOUD'ANGELI me that was now that
(33:23):
when I think of Philly Click, that's who Oh C.
W Anderson, That's who I think of because we always
hung out together.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
But like I tried to like I never saw what
you saw.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
I tried to be friends with everybody and keep a
good relationship with everybody. There are people I was closer
with than others. Obviously, you know, you travel with people
like you know, you build relationships. But like as a
talent there, I always thought of us as a family.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Like I didn't really for a couple of years too,
until as I said, now, all of a sudden somebody
else is gonna write the checks, and I'm gonna stay
there to make sure everything's good, because I'm the one's
got the relationships business wise with Japan. Was here, we're there,
and he needed me to continue those relationships where all
the money were gone at the end in ninety seven.
(34:16):
Is you're saying, here's the part you have no clue about.
I said, I'm done, I'm i gotta go whatever I said,
trying to see that, you know, everybody's leaving, like everyone's
to jump. I helped Teddy and Johnny get into WCW,
and that was where we were always always polar opposites.
Et boo, he wants to leave here and go there.
I said, he had to make ten times a year,
(34:38):
which he's making. Hear, how dare he got bad? Like that?
Became your public mean his enemy. So whoever wanted to
leave was his enemy. And I said, dude, he broke
his neck at five five hundred bucks a night, he's
gonna go make two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. How
did he be grudging? That? We were always so opposed
(35:01):
on that. Anyway? Now everyone wants to go? Is every cigarette?
What's going on? There. I said, you got you gotta
fracture loger samone wants to go. They wander to w
c W what we call it is all right, hold on,
we can do this, We can do this. I said, yeah,
there's always our goal is being with us against the world.
(35:24):
We're a little edgine that could right. He needed to
get back there, and his creative mind said, hey, if
we have a jewing enemy, if there's a mole we're
trying to bring ECW down, I can bring the group
back as one. I mean, obviously Samon into the truth,
finds me the truth, screwing to the truth. But I didn't.
(35:45):
I didn't let it up. The ny way elf was
really going on. You've got to be the heel. And
then a year from now, you appreciate this fancy what
you come back, you will be the greatest in the
history of professional wrestling.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Who is back?
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Are you telling me that the call was a work.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Trying to I assumed he knew that. I assumed Bubba
Tommy knew that. But apparently that d isn't. Nobody knew that.
He didn't smart than anybody.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Else, because I heard it at the studio.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
He wrote it. He don't how to say this. Yeah,
And I played that and I cooked that for the
last thirty years. And that's why I wrote the book.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
To this daytime, I swear to you. I kept saying, wait,
I kept selling.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
I kept saying to myself, how did they break into
the answering machine so we could hear that message?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Uh, Francine, because I could take my footage with me.
I gave him the footage to keep using to run
b rolls on every show. He could have done that
if I took it with me, but nobody thought that
through like that. So hey, it worked for him and
for a while the locker room started bonding together again.
It was a good thing. I wanted the company to succeed.
(37:13):
He'sat the opposite of being portrayed in when I need
to fail and see.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
I can't even I'm in shock right now that he
worked everybody.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
On that one.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Then imagine that.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
Look at me.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
I am flabbered est it. I never knew. There's so
much I didn't know, and it was I was right there.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
In all fairness, nobody knew that that was I feel
dumb as ship. No, that was one of the two
of us together. I'd be being cool or nothing, lock
it up and just suck it up. Well, people were
saying things everywhere like that, I hate it, you guys,
I wanted this company to keep going.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Otherwise on the back in a minute, so you I
can't wrap my head around it.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
So you and Phonsie right having that that private discussion
that I thought was broken into and stolen, so we
can all hear it.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
That was all work.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
That was all work. I don't know what I told
Fonder didn't tell. I mean at the beginning, they were
all asked me to help them out, and I was
helping them out, and I told him in front they
wouldn't leave. I'm helping them. I'm helping them if I can.
I want to get them another job, got it. That's
the part you don't know that people thought, oh it's
three underneath and knowing he knew, and then you got
(38:44):
to help me. See in the company, I didn't get
these guys back because these guys know that they come back.
Is that because you're paying them more. That's how they stayed.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
But the phone call was a work that I heard. Yeah,
Oh I feel so that's great. I feel so dumb.
I literally sat I got worked I literally.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Sat there with my like like I just sit with
my jo and I'm like, oh, oh my god. I
can't believe we're.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
All sitting there like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
And I said there were Joey stars when yeah, that
was not easy.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
No, well, I can't imagine it would be.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
And I waited. I thought I forgot about it until
the and I'm like, wait a minute, it's never smartened
them up, like in twenty five years. No, I don't
know anything.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I know that I don't.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
This is the authorized story. Suppose the unauthorized story. I
was never interviewed for one DVD, Rise and Falls.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
The only one I was interviewed for.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Okay, I was interviewed for the ones that Shane did, like, uh,
you know, the ones that weren't w W.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
After w W E involved. They never called me for anything.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It was.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
It was the one that shipped forever Hardcore. That's the
one I was interviewed for.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
But why do you think I wasn't interviewing you think.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Would tell that story?
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Probably because Paul, you know, I got this doorry about
I got you know, w Well.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
He come back and say to you, you're lying.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Do you think I don't think we'll ever talk again.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
But I mean, if if he was Polly, if you
hear this, would you would would he like challenge you
and say there's no way you're full of ship.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
That could be one tactic you might take. I don't know,
here's what my guess would be. But we're growing. It
does carludos being omnip nibbi annoying twat. We both would say.
We both would say to each other, don't acknowledge him,
because you do. You're you're you're taking your company and
(41:09):
you're bringing it down his level. Instead, we took one
w w WF. We took a w w W. We're
trying to elevate ourselves to that level. So right now
he's at that level. I mean he's yeah, a plump spot,
you know what I'm saying. Lastly, they say ignoring me
(41:31):
is the best thing he can do. It will go away.
That's fine. Not looking at it for a challenge, not
looking for a fight or an argument. I just got
TI to call pull him as he's w and I thought,
let me tell the real story what happened. I mean,
it was his, but it wasn't always his. I had
some kind of a legacy there.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Of course he didn't.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
And even though that's the real story, it'll either never
be told, you know, in that main forum and never
be acknowledged, and he'll never sell it. He'll just either
continue just the narrative that had never happened in his
world and just that name is DZW just like you said.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
That would be my guess. I mean, he may come back,
but I don't know saying my guess, He's just say yeah,
I left that behind thirty years ago, five years ago.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
We broke him once.
Speaker 6 (42:18):
I did an interview once sdthing, somebody said something about him.
He got really pissed off and he took to Twitter
and he lit it up. So you never know, he
might see it and he might Wow, he might get.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
A little ohne under a different name say you know,
but whatever, I don't care. I'm sixty eight down. Didn't
work silent for twenty five years.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
You're just telling your truth. Yeah, your truth, Dan Lemley
five super.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Check truth, not my truth, be truth, be truth, the truth.
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
He listen.
Speaker 4 (42:57):
Dan says he can't wait for the book to relive.
He see there be a history, Dan, you're going into.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Charles chip Yard let me ask you a question, do
you have a favorite chapter?
Speaker 1 (43:10):
I do, but one of the only ones that's not
about wrestling. That's very sad whatever. I'm just saying, it's
a death of my family and it was really heavy
to me. And that Mike Johnson was nice to say,
the most poignant chapter in the book, and was he
thought the best chapter in the book. Sister. I lost
(43:31):
my sister, who's my best friend, like an every day
every day or twenties or thirty all the way through. Yeah,
a PhD. Brilliant the cout, I mean, unbelievable. Uh, that
brain cancer one day out of nowhere like that, eleven
months later, and then COVID came three months after that.
(43:55):
It's good. Yeah, she had died with COVID. But I'm
just saying that that's the chapter that I wrote without
sewing because I couldn't say it. I couldn't. Everything I
did was I doing zoom. We did eight hours ten
zoom a week. All I do is tell stories and
all you do is laugh. Yeah, great, has told you
(44:18):
that story. I couldn't verbalize it. I had to write
it myself, and so that would be the one program.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
I'm so sorry for that. Yeah, that that would be hard,
families everything, So I get it. But on a on
a lighter note, Uh.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
How about that time in Pittsburgh early morning flight. He's
already laughing.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
You know the story.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Damn anyway, Sammy Squirrepire myself at the baggage carousel. What
that Phonsie. No one can find Phonsie. We just got there.
What else could you be wait for? The bags? Were
the bags? They start to come down, the carousel moves
sizy sound sleep as the bag coming down?
Speaker 3 (45:05):
I mean, yeah, note was he asleep or was he?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
You know what?
Speaker 6 (45:15):
Phonzie makes a great foil to a lot of the stories.
I have to say, every one of them ends with
some sort of line about Phonsie.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
For the most part, Phonsie's favorite line was, guys, just
save the fat one for me.
Speaker 6 (45:30):
He didn't care about the order. That was what I
learned about Phonsie. Fonzie didn't care about the order.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Or just give me a fat one.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Oh god, I can't I missed a party.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
I would have liked to hang out with you guys,
just one time, just to see the debauchery.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
It's just one come back.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, I didn't partake it.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Sorry.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
Yeah, well I.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Wasn't there, but I feel like I was there reading
this book, so I want everybody.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Is it on Amazon, by the way, came back yesterday
number one?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Congratulations? Oh my god, that's.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Brilli number released the number one wrestling book or I
don't know. I mean that was pretty.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Overwhelming, amazing. Well, the next time I see you, I
want to signed copy.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
You got it?
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Yeah, I want one because I have it on the
digital right now. When I'm reading it's hard to read
on my phone.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
I want to I want to dig other pictures and stuff.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Yeah, it does, it does, it does, But I like,
I want you to write something to me, because, as
I said earlier, you're the first person I ever met
in ECW and I honestly like, I feel like I
always say.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Paul gave me my break, he gave me the ball,
let me run with it.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
But you're the one that I feel like you saw
me first, and I feel like if you didn't see
something in me, you would have probably said you don't
got a kid, go.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Home or something like that.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
No, you know, the only thing I booked for you
was Penny Pull Stations, Miss Montgomeryville.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Its Montgomeryville. Yes, yea, and that I believe is the
first night that I met Paul.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, I said, I got an idea for discrocing our school.
I think she can pull this off. He came out
in the sash.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Miss came like this with the long the long gloves on.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I remember I missed the parade. That's Miss Montgomery. Room.
For God's sakes, who's new.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
And you know what was so great about that is
when I took that bump. I never went to the
locker room. I went straight out to the car.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
I went home.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
That's what house would be real ultimately.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
And then I go, I go, oh, I wonder if
I have a job. Because I didn't talk to anybody.
I didn't know if it was a good bomb. I
didn't know what was going on. You know, thank you, No,
I appreciate you. I've said it. You're the You're the
first guy I met in this business.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
And Brandy, You'll always be in my heart.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
I love you, Todd. I I'm so glad.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
That's shoot.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
True, it's a shoot.
Speaker 4 (48:13):
It's it's it's a definite shoot. Well, everybody needs to
go to Amazon type in Todd is God get this book.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
And if you're in when's your next signing?
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Do you every Borns and Noble by the way, any
bookstore Noble's carrying it, Simon Schuster, that's what they do.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Okay, it's brilliant. The little bit that I've read so far.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
I'm going to finish it this weekend, and I'm probably
going to read it again if I get it in print.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Thought.
Speaker 4 (48:43):
Yeah, I I definitely will because I'm laughing my ass
off the little bit that I read so far.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
I can't wait to get into the juicy part.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
You know this today alone, I got heard from Bob
Artiz John fitting there like, oh my god, I've only
read twenty five pages. I'm already loving it. That's very cool.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
It's great. It's great.
Speaker 4 (49:01):
I wish you all the success in the world. I
hope you become the best selling author in history from this.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
You got a good guy with Chad by the way
two times, don't.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Put him over. We don't put him over on this show, Todd.
I appreciate that, No, we don't put him please.
Speaker 6 (49:16):
And Todd I was going to say, I would take
the free copy or I'll believe Shane's part of the story.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
So that's where you got it.
Speaker 6 (49:22):
You got to weigh it that way, I'll either go
with Shade's story or the book, either one.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Without me on this show, he's nothing, So let's just
I'm the star. Here's when I met Todd and we
were doing the other show.
Speaker 6 (49:34):
It kept going off the rails, and I kept bringing
it back and they kept going off the rails, and
I kept breathing.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Was it smoother or this time with him and I,
because you know, we go back. I would think it
would be then hughsy he was usy drinking? Was he drunk?
Speaker 1 (49:49):
He was husy?
Speaker 3 (49:50):
He's drunk. Yes see, I'm very sober.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
I got a good head on my shoulders. I knew
this was going to be a great interview. Do you
have anything you want to say to the fans?
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Can they find you?
Speaker 4 (50:00):
Were you?
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Are you on social media?
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Todd? Here? No, I'm I'm on Facebook, had my emails AOL.
So I'm just saying I love it. I know my
kids a UCW at eighteen nineteen eighty dot com. There
go AOL.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
But nonetheless, well, listen, you know there's nine others without them,
without their chance, without their intensity out they're bringing weapons
to the show, right, That's that relationship is important any
relationship we had the building.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
God bless everyone on.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
I love ma all really absolutely well. I'll tell you this.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
I'm on social media, so if you ever need something
that you want to get the word out, text me
or call me and I'll post it for you.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
Because we want to get a million copies of this
book sold.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
We want you to come see Todd when he is
in your area because he'll be making appearances. And I'm
just happy I got to see you again, and I'm
happy you're feeling better.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
And I'm we've got things going on, and to me, it's.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Awesome absolutely so hopefully I see you soon. I appreciate
you coming on, Todd is God love you, Freddy everywhere.
Speaker 4 (51:08):
I love you to buy the book, show Todd some
love and we will keep in touch for sure, and
I will I will text you after I'm done reading.
I want you to know my thoughts, all right, Thal,
thank you for coming on, love you and I will
see you soon you too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
H Franccene Francie France, Queen Extreme Extreme.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Up here, The Queen Extreme podcasts.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
Up here.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
It's the Queen Extreme podcast. It's the Queen of Extreme.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
Bring in the legency is the woman of your dreams.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Letting on the Scene franc Scene Podcast.
Speaker 5 (51:54):
What Your Needs, Bleach your Shram, place to show you
what your needs you fund The stand of Queens from
the beginning of time. Odds here our Heart Radio, shine
only ahead and tell you a story from the where
the legend.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Odds up here, the Queen Nobody's like fresh ce.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Eyes up here here here, The Queen Extreme Podcast eyes
up here, here head The Queen Extreme Podcast odes up
here here here, The Queen Extreme Podcast odes up here here.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
The Queen Extreme Podcast Podcast
H h.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
God, long, how you do it?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh? My god?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Street everything?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Can you Grande and Queen Streets.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
I was just saying in your long intro that you
were the first person that I met that had anything
to do you know, with Eastern w.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
You were the first person when my dad drove me
to Carver w Ran to see you and and I
had to perform at the arena.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
You made me because because in the beginning I thought
I was going to be a wrestler and I.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Was training to actually work. And do you remember coming
down and watching me and the angel Amaronso have a match?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yes, well it wasn't dotish did. When when I was
done working, I was so nervous. Remember I ran to
the bathroom and I threw my guts up.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I could out. It was all mile off of this thing.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
But you was so nice to me, and you were
the first face that I that I knew, And you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Were such a young restival kids U today and you
ended up becoming since a quick and amazing I was
you when you're snow serious paint spot making a ta bunk.
I just took a little kid who walked to my
store that first thing, like.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
Wow, I was so scared to come in when I
saw the bar and I had to run the doorsoll
I was like, I look back at.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
My dad and I was like, but I didn't want
to think him in with babe. But I was like,
I'm a big girl, I could do this.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah, that would have been rough for twenty dattore.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I was twenty. I was twenty years old.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (02:16):
Yeah, I was a baby and thirty one years ago, right,
I've been It's been thirty years since I've been working,
so yeah, almost thirty one.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Wow, you've never heard glasses.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
For those old hotel takes some change, you know. It's like,
but how portal? How are you feeling?
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Are you dry?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
You have seen Gospers about the real bought the uber mood.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I haven't been doing at Sattle. I saw was yeah,
but it's working for you and that's great, but so true.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I was wanting with heat a pretty so down like
some chance I had to go getting shots. And believe me,
he looks like as hackled doctor Bombay from Bewitched. I mean,
these guys are really like out there and uh wait,
I'm serious. I'm telling you about this doctor. You got
to hear the story. You got you know.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah, yeah, I went there and he's talked about the
Semstell place.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
The first time I walk in, the guy says, look
at me. I used to a car accident, I broke
my back. I walked with two canes and then after
the stem cells, I threw them away. I'm like a
new person, right. He gives me shots. Go back three
weeks later for the second set, he walks in with
a cane. Isn't I thought you didn't need canes anymore?
(03:43):
Ready for this? He says, yeah, well, I had a
few too many Vodkas last night, like six, and this
helped me my balance. For the statement, I said, I'm
out of her town? Are you crazy? Needles me.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Out drinking? They took us the out drinking one night
across me.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
This guy knows you ship. Okay, Sure enough shots and
it didn't work. Yeah good.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I'm glad because when you were looking rough when I
saw you, you could barely walk.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
When I couldn't sit, I couldn't stand it could do
anything right?
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Oh my god?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Oh he got rid of all that stuff? Was doctor?
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Well?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
I was so happy to see you at the arena
because I hadn't been there in like almost fourteen years
and Todd was one of the first faces I saw,
So it was so good to see you again.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
It had been a long time since I've.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Seen you, really long time. Yeah, five years?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Is it really?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Well? Yeah? Probably?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Why aren't you making now I know with the book,
we're going to get into the book in a second,
but why aren't you granted, you have a business, your businessman,
I get it, you know.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Why aren't you making the reims on you know, the
signing circuit with all of us, Well, when they're local,
you know, I go, it's a hard part ride a.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Plane, you know, when he's got to bring in like
five six o'clock in the morning to throw up in
a motel six or something. It's not my style. But
you know, I'm gonder something in New York And now
that of course, none of the books are being asked,
actually asking a whole lot before. So maybe that's why
I wasn't on the circuit. You know, hello remember me?
So you know I'm doing them all over the place
(05:32):
in Queens and Yonkers the same day, uh, in August,
I'm doing at a Museum's going to film museum. We're
doing signing. They bought a bunch of books and the
cane Field wrestle Fest in New York to got a
wrestling store doing them, and they're buying books, and so
I'm getting out there.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Now, Okay, well you should, you should be out there.
I started reading the book. I'm very busy. I have
a very busy life, but I did start.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Reading it, and I'm telling you, I didn't want to
put it down. I know it's you know, I know
most of the stories, but some of them.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
You know, I didn't partake your world after hours. But
I'm telling you I I literally did not.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Want to book the book that I was laughing out loud.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I was just in awe.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I'm saying to myself, Man, I thought this was just
an urban.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
Legend, but it happened, you know what I mean. It's
such so far, it's such a good read. I'm going
to finish it hopefully this weekend.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
I'm home.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
But telling stories. I mean, it's like you read the
book like the guy just sit next to you telling
you the stories about the craziest body you heard your life, right.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
No, I'm telling you it has been such a good
read for me so far, and I know whoever reads
it is going to want to, you know, get their
hands on it and and tell their.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Friends because I love it.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
So far, so far, so good. I'm gonna say that,
and I'm sure there's more debauchery to come.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Chad, do tell the story list right before about the
same man in the carpet in the hotel.
Speaker 6 (07:16):
It was it was yeah, Sean had gone into it,
but it's probably the it's the I think it's just
to bring the house down story.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Let's tell this story. But first, I just want to
thank the tg R five dollars super Chat. Thank you
for coming, he says, my w CW the Queen looking
great as always. Thank you, sir. You're going in the
char Chip jar.
Speaker 6 (07:34):
That is his woman crush Wednesday.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Yes, anybody who gives us, uh do you remember Charles
Chips the Philly thing, right, I have the Charles chip jars,
So anyone who gives us super Chats, we auction off
a prize at the end of the stream and he
goes in the Charlie jar. Used to call Charlie, Yeah,
Charlie Chips, but it says Charles on it, so I
(07:57):
just call it Charles Chips. Uh ross and found two
dollars super Chat Todd your thoughts on Joel Goodheart and
Wrestling Radio, and then after this question we'll get to
that story.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I want to hear it.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
If it wasn't for Joel Goodheart and Wrestler Radio, I
would never been in the business. There had never been
at ECW, there had never been out of to era
because one thing that's led it to another to another.
It was the Chamber of Events. And without Joe Goodhart,
like I said, no one know who I am. I
mean in terms of the rest of the world, and
I would have ever gone into it. So I have
nothing to respect for him.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
And this was like the bar shows back in the day.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
He was doing bar shows me. Also, the reason he
went out of business was doing the show the Civic
Center four times a year, which is a very expensive
building to run. I mean thousands of dollars just to
have the guy gument and turn the electricity on. Its
all you uni ened up. And he would bring in
anybody and everybody who was out there who was under contract.
(08:54):
It was gonna be there are free birds and cactus
and the Eddie. It was Austin I l. Jerry Wall
or Buddy Rogers, Buddy Rich. I mean it was crazy.
I mean, he would just bring in every piece of
talent out there thinking that was we wanted to go.
But he wasn't able to sell the shows enough to
get the money to pay these guys, and that's what
(09:16):
he went under.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
I see, Okay, should we take this question or should
we let him tell the story.
Speaker 6 (09:22):
Let's let's take the question and then let's get to
the story.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Am I I five dollars? Super chat? Hi Todd? Can
you speak a little bit about Nancy Sullivan and your
memories of her?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
All through this book there's a theme about Nancy Sullivan
and how much she meant to be, how much she
meant to Sam, and how much she meant to Phonsie Scorpio.
She was like a sister, a mother, a daughter. She
played like every role off his nails. But she didn't
mess around and she didn't do anything but business the
right way. And I just love Nancy. So what happened
(09:57):
to her? To me, maybe it was tragically All the
years I've been involved with wrestling, that is just horrendous.
I can't even say the guy's name, to be honestly,
I just hate that songer but so much. You have
no idea Nancy was everything to me. I remember.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Being at the Travelodge.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
You remember when we would go to like the Top
Florida shoot the promos. I just remember her being drunk
and singing like the old timey songs, like just just
singing like, uh, Frank Sinatra.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (10:30):
It's called classic rock?
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Okay, that's what you want to call it.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
That's my because I only got to I think I
only got to work with her one time, believe it
or not, just one time, and I think it was
oh god, what was that building called when we were
up on a.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Mountain Jim Thorpe. Jim Thorpe, Never remember that damn building.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
That's where I worked with her, and she caned me
or something really early in my career, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Because she didn't stay long after I got there. She
had gone to w c W.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
She stayed for a while. Kevin, her husband left without her.
He left her.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, but I never got to like maybe it was
a year if that. Like, I never got to work
with her at all.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
She was very involved with the old Katie Ang old
Dreamer and saman and you know Mikey all that. Yeah. Yeah,
she was perfect. She was really good but she was
a better person. She really was. I remember I stayed
with her and Kevin de Condo in Florida. We were
doing Florida Run. She was just everything about her was nice.
Yet she carried a knife in her boot.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
She was a dollar a yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
All right, tell us about the story. Let's let's get
into that one story first.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
All right, what good story, entice? People don't want to
read the book. We're in a hotel room, the Travel Lodge.
Travel Lodge hotel we all stayed in once a month.
We had the Philadelphie shows, part of me, sam an Scorpio, myself,
Delafonso also out of nowhere in the drinking a beer,
seven goes yo, is this room seven o five? We'ren
(12:11):
look at other? Yeah, oh my god. He runs to
the corner and he starts digging up the carpet. I said, heck,
what are you doing. I gonna pay for that ship.
Don't do that. Don't rip the carpet, just pull the
car pulling out an eight ball cocaine. God. Now understand
we've now stayed in this hotel six times since he
(12:34):
put it there. He completely forgot. So it was the
room seven oh five that her mind, like, oh yeah,
seven o five. At the time, he was going back
to Utah for during the week, and so he would
take it on the plane. But six months before we
rud remember he did that A score were marking out
(12:56):
in the hallway and I right behind him, giant planner
by the elevator. You help me listen. We're now flowing
on the floor, living so loud. Only put a quarterbown
to at the cooke somewhere and not remember for six
months after that.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
It's like a dog digging up an old bone or something.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
How funny. He was great, the best.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Hanging out with him was nothing but fun hilarious.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
That was incredible. That his description though in the book,
of the whole aesthetic of everything about it, like what
he's wearing and everything. It's just hilarious. The whole thing
is just is perfectly described.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Kim just wants to say, Hey, She's just saying hi,
and she loves E. C. W. Todd.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Hey, Kim, thank you so much, Kim.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
We appreciate you. Let me see. Let me ask you
a question. I know this story. I don't know how
many of the people watching this story. Can you tell
us how you got that? Todd is godline.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Absolutely. There was a guy named Paul Bellace we called
Sign Guy who eventually signed Guy. Dudley was there to
anti sign Guy guy. But he's the fan of the
front Roads, the coming by, you know kicks, very show by,
you know, four time five at a time ahead of time.
He was our biggest fan. He had signs for everything
(14:23):
and everyone, and he knew things that I don't know
how he knew.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
He was psychic.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
No, he knew, he knew when people were going to turn,
he knew, he knew all the angles.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
I'm with you. I don't know how he was. He kneto,
a stooge or something.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Was when we had Rick Rude come in and nobody
the dressing room was there and this guy's hoarded up
a sign says, hey, Rude, don't work.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
What that?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
So one of the signs of the other was Todd
is God. Early on, whenever I would come out and
making annnouncements, say this guy's a fun where we're match
is gonna make for next month or whatever, they'd all
start chanting Todd as God. Yeah, that's and I always
a chance for everyone. Believe me, Fancy doesn't heard Shade
was but everybody had their own chair, had a couple.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I mean, you know, I think everybody knows.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
What they are. But I'm just saying that from pack Myers,
all the way up and down. So the guy came
out and mopped the floor what they call mop guy.
I mean, it was like it was the crowd is amazing.
We had this great symbiotic relationship with them. They were
like they were part of the show. We were part
of the show, and we just feed off of each other.
But yeah, thats God came.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
From Okay, so I know that, But there there was
there's another Todd is God story. Did you thought about
that in the book?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
I think I might have, because that happens is that era,
this is that time.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
That's the one I was really referring to. I know
how you got the.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Name, Okay, this incident. Over the years, it's twenty five years.
I've seen nu Jash, I've seen Sam Man tell the
story about how they were there when this happened and
in this bizarre and they would you have no idea
Sam and stored and off the girls were in. I mean,
(16:18):
none of these people were there, none of them. It
was just me and Scorpio and Scorpik's the funniest thing
to the road. New Jack's like, yeah, I came in,
I came in. Would you have a key to our room?
When you came in and they were all naked over there?
I said, who let you in? Like it didn't happen.
It was in insane story.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
So you were saying you and this lovely lady were
by yourselves.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
No scorpio, oh scor scorp right, Okay, but they're saying
that they were there too.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Now who was more screwed up that night? Like who
was more apped up?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Was it?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
You? Like?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Because you talk about drug use back in the day,
nobody had forgotten somebody else was in the room.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Listen, Shane believed he was in the room and Eddie
Gilbert got fired.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
All right, what we could go We could go over
that all day long.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Again. He said he was the booking room. There wasn't
a booking room. What is he talking about it?
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Maybe they called that room the booking room because that's
where you thought of stuff.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Happened in Paoli and that radical studio at Max Radigo's
studios where it happened. So wherever Shane's thinking, where we're
smoking whatever Hack newjack Arl knew Jackson work. He turned
it into the whole everybody was doing this and doing
narrow jaguary.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Well, how did the story get out?
Speaker 6 (17:43):
Did Scorpio tell everybody at the Scorpio tell I heard
Scorpio tell it on a shoot once.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
He thought, I mean the four of us were sort
finding Sam, so of course we would repeat the story. Basically,
Sam Man was probably the first want to find out
and from there over the years inside he was part
of the story.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Are we telling this story? So people know what the
hell we're talking about?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Girl? That's Scorpio who if you don't know and what
you know he does?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I don't know anything. I know what I hear.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
Parts of Scorpio may or may not be grossly enlarged
for those that make larger, Okay, no.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It's as large as the piers in the mirror anyway.
So he got a little crazy with the girl, and
as he was using his member, he was screaming, say
taught as God, because it just seemed like a funny
thing to do at the time. And finally she started
(18:51):
yelling to the guy he's going to say it, screaming
at her, screaming back, and people the hallway, they ever
heard of whatever it was?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
And what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Was just laughing. I thought it was very funny.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
See all these years, I thought you were banging the
girl and she was screaming todd as god.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Well she became what we called the pony. It's a
whole dog and pony story, a raven which is way
too much for now, but I'm just saying, yeah, it was. Yeah,
it was a fan. It was not a fan. It
was a rat. It wasn't a rat. It was submissive.
Maybe she was, I don't know, but Fanzie fell in
love her. Eventually took room to mama, which they hacked
(19:37):
Scorpion I even more hysterical.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
But then they broke up a little while after that.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Right, yeah, he got sober one morning. Mama, What I do?
Speaker 3 (19:53):
I can't cut it up? Oh my god, I can't.
Speaker 6 (20:01):
What we gotta comment from the blue Mini Scorpio member
has its own birth certificate.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Talk about you and Phonsie because you guys, You guys
made me smile every time you guys work together for
the I mean, for those of you who don't know,
him and Phonsie were like this besties, you know, and
now they're thrown.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Into this angle where they have to work each other.
How much fun?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Well, everything was funny except being in the rings.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
We couldn't stiff.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, because we couldn't work. We were not going to
be the ones weather On the owner of the Extreme
Championship Wrestling and I got there and have a what
Tuxido Magic Cornett and Paulie or something. Come on. We
had to go out there and keep keep the you know,
the thing going, So we couldn't work. So we just
literally said, let's beat this ship out of each other. Bro,
can we do? And we lumped each other up good.
(21:04):
So anybody was a crap on that, Trust me, it
was as real as real guds.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I'm not crapping on it. I enjoyed it like I
I love it. I love the fact that when you're
one of the boys like you.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
I knew the dynamic between you and Phonsie, but then
to you guys in the ring together, it just made
me chuckle because I'm just like, yeah, they're being stiff with.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Each other and it's okay because you know, we love
each other.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah. Then we drive the Jim Thorp up that big
mountain every time because it was one of us we
got Nancy. Actually we goes fans you know you're a heel,
we're a baby face. The guy got out here and
walk the rest of the HILLI in the you can't
walk that hill. And every time we said we'll bring
(21:50):
your bags up to see up the mountain, we walk
all the way up as a rib.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
He could have just put his head down in the
car well.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Of course he said that was the rib.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
So mean, Angela Angela Dawn five dollars super chat. Hello everyone.
Speaker 4 (22:06):
Was there ever a moment during a match where you
legitimately thought someone was dead?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Odd?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Did you no? Dead?
Speaker 5 (22:14):
No?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Although there was a match one time, We're honest to
god where fansie thought I was dead? True story Ross
River ice drink. Yeah yeah, Saboo and Van Dam and
Phonsie and couldn't tay that Welles is going on but
it's an ice cold heart surface. You're like a board
over it. There was no there's no match outside anywhere more. No,
(22:37):
probably not there. You know. I've seen it happen in
football a lot, but for me, I didn't know what
it was. But Sabo put me through the table. What
I had the wind knocked out of me, which I
didn't even know what that meant other than singing on TV.
The guy just lazer go Oh no, well that was me.
(22:57):
I couldn't couldn't get could do anything, And thought becomes
over his toster. You okay, And I didn't say anything, no,
Iggy nothing. We killed Tonster. We killed Tonster. He's running around.
Doster's dead, Doster dead. I'm trying to shut the fun
(23:21):
I'm fine, yeah, because I was the closest one about
being dead. But yeah, he really did believe, right, and
he killed me. Give him the iggy. I just I
couldn't do anything.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Oh my god, wasn't it you that when we had
that huge pull apart at the arena went for Gary?
When when Shane did the halo gimmick? What was was
it you that he that went up behind him and
he turned around and punched.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
You in the head.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
No, I was the first one on the ring and
it was really cool. I love watching it over again.
Literally it was literally dove through the ropes.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
Okay. Somebody came up behind him and.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
He always thought it was you, And he says, I
turned around and I punched him because I thought it
was a fan.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
He goes in here, it was Todd Gordon.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I have to watch it again. I don't remember that.
I just remember him saying to me how to funck
my ain naut of her scary that we'll make it
looking better by having two fans that were planted there
from our school come over the railing, except eighty your
people came up before they got over.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
I was going to say there was more than two
that jumped that railing. Because we got.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
We're not to be planning anybody. I was like, whoa,
that was scary being a Gary come to back. Gary
went to a hospital across the street at my store,
Thomas Jaffers in hospital. He finally comes in here. All
this time I was sleeping sitting up for like months
and did it the Hayles off. He was so happy
(24:55):
to do it, a jigging, he said, Gary, don't hate me,
but how did you feel about keeping the hail warm
for a little while? Longer? He looked me, brother were
talking about? I said, well, only when you leave the house,
I mean you sleep with your bed. I want people
to think he still got a broken neck. I got
(25:17):
an idea, and sure enough, and he did it so well.
What he did was when he went in the ring
for when Shane shook him. Yeah, he put his hand
in his pocket, yes, so that he couldn't brace himself
when he got went down. So it looked.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Wow, Yeah, he looked crippled.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yes, he did that amazingly. Yeah, and that made that
whole angle work like just fly. But he wouldn't keep
that ale.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
That was one of the scariest nights of my life.
I mean, I had people grabbing and punching me, and
I you know, I I take it a bunk. So
I was trying to sell, but I couldn't get my
feet to get flat on the My feet were being drug.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Our smart crowd would never go after whatever He'll say, No,
they're all smart, really really gotten them. You know. It
was like samn blinding and we actually got you know,
we got him, and we'd love we get him. And
I'm saying that the greatest baling in the world.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
So smart, so scary. Here's a question for you.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
Since the book has been released, has Paul Hayman reached
out to you? Have you like, when's the last time
you spoke to Paul?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Last time I spoke to Paul. That was what he
asked me to come down, taking his dv D they're
doing for the w which I did ask me once
after that, but once it came out, that's the last
time we spoke.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
So you don't know if he'd like even read the book. No,
nothing from him. Okay, do you think there's any stories
in there that he would probably challenge you one.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I don't think he'll challenge him. I mean, I think
that he's not to be happy to see them in there.
He's upset what I'm talked about what really happened, which
nobody including yourself what he knows that story, but it's
in the book.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
But I'll tell you you know what you hear.
Speaker 4 (27:13):
Yeah, I still don't know why we went bankrupt, Todd,
and I was there for seven years.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
I don't know you bankrupted the company. It was me.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
That was as a fan.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
That was honestly, what I wanted to read the most
was how it all went down, that that whole transition
with you and him and how and that was the
most fascinating part to me, was how like how it
went from you to him and just that whole dynamic
with him. And it just seems like everything with him
is such like a psychological game. And I don't know,
(27:51):
it's just he's he's such an interesting guy. But it
seems like a lot of it is a manipulation game.
But I don't know, it's it's how build and drop
it is, it's you know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
One of the lines I say in the book is
I lost the game in chest that didn't even realize
I was playing.
Speaker 6 (28:08):
Yeah, it's a great line.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
That's the truth. You know, like we're getting expenses, were
getting crazy, and they're paying three thousand dollars MSG Network,
three thousand dollars a week for Sunshine Network. That's twenty
four thousand dollars a month. That's before we got to
the pay for level. There's a whole other category. The
(28:31):
reason we took those deals one was because Paul said,
we got to do New York Studio fifty four. I
got the whole show sponsor. It's done. No, every commercial
is done. They're climbing over each other's sponsor the show.
We take the deal, sign a contract, not one commercial,
(28:52):
not one, still go on, we move forward Sunshine Network.
I thought, you know, that was not him so much
as it was both of us, and we thought we
could sell commercials down there, and the guys we brought
in Howard Brody. They weren't able to sell the commercial
we thought they would. So also, we're not getting anything
back to you know, anybody buys a shirt from our advertisements,
(29:17):
and you know I can tell them what things are
getting bad and doing so much money left. You know,
I can't get twenty four thousand dollars a month, you know,
you know work and house shows, what you're paying for everything.
You're not getting that money back. So I tell them
it's ten weeks left, you got nine weeks left, eight
weeks left. It's worked. Yeah, that's how it went. And
(29:38):
I said, found an investor. I got a guy's willing
putting it, and I understand I gifted Paul forty nine
percent of the company. He'd never taken a paycheck, so
I gifted him forty nine percent of the company because
that's just where I am. I cold is standing work
for for free. So since guy wants twenty percent or
(29:58):
ten to meet of us, and we said, I'm not
giving up any of my shares. I have business in
ten weeks. What are you talking about if you wanna
up twenty cent of your shares? I said, so what's
you go? Forty nine thirty in the fifty forty nine
was the fact that someone said the last word, I
(30:18):
worried about burning the house down. You know I won't
do it, So we didn't make the deal. I gotta
call on a friend uncle work for HBO Music out
of Sony Music. HBOS would like to have a meeting
with us. Wow, never been like four weeks left. I mean, tomorrow,
(30:41):
where's the tape? It'll be there. So I have to
say the fantasy, right, it'll be there. I said, well,
this is no joke. HBO man, I got up there
in New York. Oh, there's my thumb on my butt.
Never was never there.
Speaker 6 (30:57):
Wow, Dad, I couldn't believe that was That was one
of the learning that was incredible.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That he just you know, I mean tell you this
for facts. It's for a fact. My instinct would be
that he was maneuvering at that point to get the
company because he wanted to be vincit Man, and he
give wanted to be Jerry Lawler. I wanted to be
vinced and he had to lose the greater now to
(31:23):
be me. He hated it was Todd and Paul's companies. Todd.
He wanted to be Paul's which somehow over the years
he's made that become the way people feel in the book,
I suppose why it isn't that way, And I was
never that way, and it became that way. It's okay,
but you know there's more to it than that. And
(31:45):
when I left, he was going to kill you. We
had a deal, didn't understanding. I wasn't get so much
money back, you know, I had to take so much
a month. If he didn't pay it, his family would.
I had a relationship with them, so I was gonna
get my money back. But but they end ninety seven.
(32:05):
Guys couldn't stay working there anymore. The director, which I
made a family, had become fractured. Up the wazoo. There
was a New York click, a Philly click, this click,
that click, and there was never clicks when I was
running that place. Ever. We had people hudder around towards
monitor or watch the airbus's matches, not saying, hey, I'm
(32:26):
making my own belt, made my own Yeah, they're under
my own thing, like okay, whatever you want. You know,
it was ridiculous.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
See like for me, I when you say the Philly click,
I was part of that Philly click. But I was
friends with everybody, like I tried to be that.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
You weren't brought in that inner grouping of New York
or Philly. You were a great and your portos, but
so is called the enemy saboo. They weren't from Philly.
It's just that people that we were all close friends with.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Yeah, like we called the Philly Click, like everybody who
flew out of Philly Airport and then that's what we
called the Philly Click. And then like Jack, Victory and
Dreamer were part of it too because we all would
hang out together. Corino LOUD'ANGELI me that was now that
(33:23):
when I think of Philly Click, that's who Oh C.
W Anderson, That's who I think of because we always
hung out together.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
But like I tried to like I never saw what
you saw.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
I tried to be friends with everybody and keep a
good relationship with everybody. There are people I was closer
with than others. Obviously, you know, you travel with people
like you know, you build relationships. But like as a
talent there, I always thought of us as a family.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Like I didn't really for a couple of years too,
until as I said, now, all of a sudden somebody
else is gonna write the checks, and I'm gonna stay
there to make sure everything's good, because I'm the one's
got the relationships business wise with Japan. Was here, we're there,
and he needed me to continue those relationships where all
the money were gone at the end in ninety seven.
(34:16):
Is you're saying, here's the part you have no clue about.
I said, I'm done, I'm i gotta go whatever I said,
trying to see that, you know, everybody's leaving, like everyone's
to jump. I helped Teddy and Johnny get into WCW,
and that was where we were always always polar opposites.
Et boo, he wants to leave here and go there.
I said, he had to make ten times a year,
(34:38):
which he's making. Hear, how dare he got bad? Like that?
Became your public mean his enemy. So whoever wanted to
leave was his enemy. And I said, dude, he broke
his neck at five five hundred bucks a night, he's
gonna go make two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. How
did he be grudging? That? We were always so opposed
(35:01):
on that. Anyway? Now everyone wants to go? Is every cigarette?
What's going on? There. I said, you got you gotta
fracture loger samone wants to go. They wander to w
c W what we call it is all right, hold on,
we can do this, We can do this. I said, yeah,
there's always our goal is being with us against the world.
(35:24):
We're a little edgine that could right. He needed to
get back there, and his creative mind said, hey, if
we have a jewing enemy, if there's a mole we're
trying to bring ECW down, I can bring the group
back as one. I mean, obviously Samon into the truth,
finds me the truth, screwing to the truth. But I didn't.
(35:45):
I didn't let it up. The ny way elf was
really going on. You've got to be the heel. And
then a year from now, you appreciate this fancy what
you come back, you will be the greatest in the
history of professional wrestling.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
Who is back?
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Are you telling me that the call was a work.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Trying to I assumed he knew that. I assumed Bubba
Tommy knew that. But apparently that d isn't. Nobody knew that.
He didn't smart than anybody.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
Else, because I heard it at the studio.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
He wrote it. He don't how to say this. Yeah,
And I played that and I cooked that for the
last thirty years. And that's why I wrote the book.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
To this daytime, I swear to you. I kept saying, wait,
I kept selling.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
I kept saying to myself, how did they break into
the answering machine so we could hear that message?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Uh, Francine, because I could take my footage with me.
I gave him the footage to keep using to run
b rolls on every show. He could have done that
if I took it with me, but nobody thought that
through like that. So hey, it worked for him and
for a while the locker room started bonding together again.
It was a good thing. I wanted the company to succeed.
(37:13):
He'sat the opposite of being portrayed in when I need
to fail and see.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
I can't even I'm in shock right now that he
worked everybody.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
On that one.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Then imagine that.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
Look at me.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
I am flabbered est it. I never knew. There's so
much I didn't know, and it was I was right there.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
In all fairness, nobody knew that that was I feel
dumb as ship. No, that was one of the two
of us together. I'd be being cool or nothing, lock
it up and just suck it up. Well, people were
saying things everywhere like that, I hate it, you guys,
I wanted this company to keep going.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Otherwise on the back in a minute, so you I
can't wrap my head around it.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
So you and Phonsie right having that that private discussion
that I thought was broken into and stolen, so we
can all hear it.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
That was all work.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
That was all work. I don't know what I told
Fonder didn't tell. I mean at the beginning, they were
all asked me to help them out, and I was
helping them out, and I told him in front they
wouldn't leave. I'm helping them. I'm helping them if I can.
I want to get them another job, got it. That's
the part you don't know that people thought, oh it's
three underneath and knowing he knew, and then you got
(38:44):
to help me. See in the company, I didn't get
these guys back because these guys know that they come back.
Is that because you're paying them more. That's how they stayed.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
But the phone call was a work that I heard. Yeah,
Oh I feel so that's great. I feel so dumb.
I literally sat I got worked I literally.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Sat there with my like like I just sit with
my jo and I'm like, oh, oh my god. I
can't believe we're.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
All sitting there like, oh my god.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
And I said there were Joey stars when yeah, that
was not easy.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
No, well, I can't imagine it would be.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
And I waited. I thought I forgot about it until
the and I'm like, wait a minute, it's never smartened
them up, like in twenty five years. No, I don't
know anything.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I know that I don't.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
This is the authorized story. Suppose the unauthorized story. I
was never interviewed for one DVD, Rise and Falls.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
The only one I was interviewed for.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Okay, I was interviewed for the ones that Shane did, like, uh,
you know, the ones that weren't w W.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
After w W E involved. They never called me for anything.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
It was.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
It was the one that shipped forever Hardcore. That's the
one I was interviewed for.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
But why do you think I wasn't interviewing you think.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Would tell that story?
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Probably because Paul, you know, I got this doorry about
I got you know, w Well.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
He come back and say to you, you're lying.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Do you think I don't think we'll ever talk again.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
But I mean, if if he was Polly, if you
hear this, would you would would he like challenge you
and say there's no way you're full of ship.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
That could be one tactic you might take. I don't know,
here's what my guess would be. But we're growing. It
does carludos being omnip nibbi annoying twat. We both would say.
We both would say to each other, don't acknowledge him,
because you do. You're you're you're taking your company and
(41:09):
you're bringing it down his level. Instead, we took one
w w WF. We took a w w W. We're
trying to elevate ourselves to that level. So right now
he's at that level. I mean he's yeah, a plump spot,
you know what I'm saying. Lastly, they say ignoring me
(41:31):
is the best thing he can do. It will go away.
That's fine. Not looking at it for a challenge, not
looking for a fight or an argument. I just got
TI to call pull him as he's w and I thought,
let me tell the real story what happened. I mean,
it was his, but it wasn't always his. I had
some kind of a legacy there.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Of course he didn't.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
And even though that's the real story, it'll either never
be told, you know, in that main forum and never
be acknowledged, and he'll never sell it. He'll just either
continue just the narrative that had never happened in his
world and just that name is DZW just like you said.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
That would be my guess. I mean, he may come back,
but I don't know saying my guess, He's just say yeah,
I left that behind thirty years ago, five years ago.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
We broke him once.
Speaker 6 (42:18):
I did an interview once sdthing, somebody said something about him.
He got really pissed off and he took to Twitter
and he lit it up. So you never know, he
might see it and he might Wow, he might get.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
A little ohne under a different name say you know,
but whatever, I don't care. I'm sixty eight down. Didn't
work silent for twenty five years.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
You're just telling your truth. Yeah, your truth, Dan Lemley
five super.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Check truth, not my truth, be truth, be truth, the truth.
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
He listen.
Speaker 4 (42:57):
Dan says he can't wait for the book to relive.
He see there be a history, Dan, you're going into.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Charles chip Yard let me ask you a question, do
you have a favorite chapter?
Speaker 1 (43:10):
I do, but one of the only ones that's not
about wrestling. That's very sad whatever. I'm just saying, it's
a death of my family and it was really heavy
to me. And that Mike Johnson was nice to say,
the most poignant chapter in the book, and was he
thought the best chapter in the book. Sister. I lost
(43:31):
my sister, who's my best friend, like an every day
every day or twenties or thirty all the way through. Yeah,
a PhD. Brilliant the cout, I mean, unbelievable. Uh, that
brain cancer one day out of nowhere like that, eleven
months later, and then COVID came three months after that.
(43:55):
It's good. Yeah, she had died with COVID. But I'm
just saying that that's the chapter that I wrote without
sewing because I couldn't say it. I couldn't. Everything I
did was I doing zoom. We did eight hours ten
zoom a week. All I do is tell stories and
all you do is laugh. Yeah, great, has told you
(44:18):
that story. I couldn't verbalize it. I had to write
it myself, and so that would be the one program.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
I'm so sorry for that. Yeah, that that would be hard,
families everything, So I get it. But on a on
a lighter note, Uh.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
How about that time in Pittsburgh early morning flight. He's
already laughing.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
You know the story.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Damn anyway, Sammy Squirrepire myself at the baggage carousel. What
that Phonsie. No one can find Phonsie. We just got there.
What else could you be wait for? The bags? Were
the bags? They start to come down, the carousel moves
sizy sound sleep as the bag coming down?
Speaker 3 (45:05):
I mean, yeah, note was he asleep or was he?
Speaker 1 (45:13):
You know what?
Speaker 6 (45:15):
Phonzie makes a great foil to a lot of the stories.
I have to say, every one of them ends with
some sort of line about Phonsie.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
For the most part, Phonsie's favorite line was, guys, just
save the fat one for me.
Speaker 6 (45:30):
He didn't care about the order. That was what I
learned about Phonsie. Fonzie didn't care about the order.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Or just give me a fat one.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Oh god, I can't I missed a party.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
I would have liked to hang out with you guys,
just one time, just to see the debauchery.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
It's just one come back.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Yeah, I didn't partake it.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
Sorry.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
Yeah, well I.
Speaker 4 (45:59):
Wasn't there, but I feel like I was there reading
this book, so I want everybody.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Is it on Amazon, by the way, came back yesterday
number one?
Speaker 3 (46:11):
Congratulations? Oh my god, that's.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Brilli number released the number one wrestling book or I
don't know. I mean that was pretty.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Overwhelming, amazing. Well, the next time I see you, I
want to signed copy.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
You got it?
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Yeah, I want one because I have it on the
digital right now. When I'm reading it's hard to read
on my phone.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
I want to I want to dig other pictures and stuff.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Yeah, it does, it does, it does, But I like,
I want you to write something to me, because, as
I said earlier, you're the first person I ever met
in ECW and I honestly like, I feel like I
always say.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Paul gave me my break, he gave me the ball,
let me run with it.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
But you're the one that I feel like you saw
me first, and I feel like if you didn't see
something in me, you would have probably said you don't
got a kid, go.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Home or something like that.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
No, you know, the only thing I booked for you
was Penny Pull Stations, Miss Montgomeryville.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Its Montgomeryville. Yes, yea, and that I believe is the
first night that I met Paul.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, I said, I got an idea for discrocing our school.
I think she can pull this off. He came out
in the sash.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
Miss came like this with the long the long gloves on.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I remember I missed the parade. That's Miss Montgomery. Room.
For God's sakes, who's new.
Speaker 4 (47:37):
And you know what was so great about that is
when I took that bump. I never went to the
locker room. I went straight out to the car.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
I went home.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
That's what house would be real ultimately.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
And then I go, I go, oh, I wonder if
I have a job. Because I didn't talk to anybody.
I didn't know if it was a good bomb. I
didn't know what was going on. You know, thank you, No,
I appreciate you. I've said it. You're the You're the
first guy I met in this business.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
And Brandy, You'll always be in my heart.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
I love you, Todd. I I'm so glad.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
That's shoot.
Speaker 3 (48:11):
True, it's a shoot.
Speaker 4 (48:13):
It's it's it's a definite shoot. Well, everybody needs to
go to Amazon type in Todd is God get this book.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
And if you're in when's your next signing?
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Do you every Borns and Noble by the way, any
bookstore Noble's carrying it, Simon Schuster, that's what they do.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
Okay, it's brilliant. The little bit that I've read so far.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
I'm going to finish it this weekend, and I'm probably
going to read it again if I get it in print.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Thought.
Speaker 4 (48:43):
Yeah, I I definitely will because I'm laughing my ass
off the little bit that I read so far.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
I can't wait to get into the juicy part.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
You know this today alone, I got heard from Bob
Artiz John fitting there like, oh my god, I've only
read twenty five pages. I'm already loving it. That's very cool.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
It's great. It's great.
Speaker 4 (49:01):
I wish you all the success in the world. I
hope you become the best selling author in history from this.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
You got a good guy with Chad by the way
two times, don't.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
Put him over. We don't put him over on this show, Todd.
I appreciate that, No, we don't put him please.
Speaker 6 (49:16):
And Todd I was going to say, I would take
the free copy or I'll believe Shane's part of the story.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
So that's where you got it.
Speaker 6 (49:22):
You got to weigh it that way, I'll either go
with Shade's story or the book, either one.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Without me on this show, he's nothing, So let's just
I'm the star. Here's when I met Todd and we
were doing the other show.
Speaker 6 (49:34):
It kept going off the rails, and I kept bringing
it back and they kept going off the rails, and
I kept breathing.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Was it smoother or this time with him and I,
because you know, we go back. I would think it
would be then hughsy he was usy drinking? Was he drunk?
Speaker 1 (49:49):
He was husy?
Speaker 3 (49:50):
He's drunk. Yes see, I'm very sober.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
I got a good head on my shoulders. I knew
this was going to be a great interview. Do you
have anything you want to say to the fans?
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Can they find you?
Speaker 4 (50:00):
Were you?
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Are you on social media?
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Todd? Here? No, I'm I'm on Facebook, had my emails AOL.
So I'm just saying I love it. I know my
kids a UCW at eighteen nineteen eighty dot com. There
go AOL.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
But nonetheless, well, listen, you know there's nine others without them,
without their chance, without their intensity out they're bringing weapons
to the show, right, That's that relationship is important any
relationship we had the building.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
God bless everyone on.
Speaker 3 (50:35):
I love ma all really absolutely well. I'll tell you this.
Speaker 4 (50:38):
I'm on social media, so if you ever need something
that you want to get the word out, text me
or call me and I'll post it for you.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
Because we want to get a million copies of this
book sold.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
We want you to come see Todd when he is
in your area because he'll be making appearances. And I'm
just happy I got to see you again, and I'm
happy you're feeling better.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
And I'm we've got things going on, and to me, it's.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Awesome absolutely so hopefully I see you soon. I appreciate
you coming on, Todd is God love you, Freddy everywhere.
Speaker 4 (51:08):
I love you to buy the book, show Todd some
love and we will keep in touch for sure, and
I will I will text you after I'm done reading.
I want you to know my thoughts, all right, Thal,
thank you for coming on, love you and I will
see you soon you too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
H Franccene Francie France, Queen Extreme Extreme.
Speaker 1 (51:37):
Up here, The Queen Extreme podcasts.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
Up here.
Speaker 1 (51:45):
It's the Queen Extreme podcast. It's the Queen of Extreme.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
Bring in the legency is the woman of your dreams.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Letting on the Scene franc Scene Podcast.
Speaker 5 (51:54):
What Your Needs, Bleach your Shram, place to show you
what your needs you fund The stand of Queens from
the beginning of time. Odds here our Heart Radio, shine
only ahead and tell you a story from the where
the legend.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Odds up here, the Queen Nobody's like fresh ce.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
Eyes up here here here, The Queen Extreme Podcast eyes
up here, here head The Queen Extreme Podcast odes up
here here here, The Queen Extreme Podcast odes up here here.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
The Queen Extreme Podcast Podcast
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