Homophobia in Small Town America | Matthew Shepard

Rasha and Yvette discuss the brutal killing of Matthew Shepard, a 21 year old gay man who was beaten to death in 1998. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
You're listening to Facing Evil, a production of iHeartRadio and
Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast
are solely those of the individuals participating in the show
and do not represent those of iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV.
This podcast contains subject matter which may not be suitable
for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Helloha, Hi everyone, Welcome back to our new podcast, Facing
Evil from Tenderfoot TV and iHeartRadio. We are your hosts.
I'm Roscha Pecurero.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
And I'm Evett Gentila. And if you are just joining us,
check out our first episode on the Case of Lisa
Al or our episode zero, where we share our crazy
family history and our first foray into podcasting. Each week
we are joined by our amazing producer, Trevor Young.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Hey, I'm here and sweating because it is super hot
in La right now where I live.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Isn't it hot in San Francisco too?

Speaker 3 (01:06):
Event it's very hot in San Francisco. I have the
blinds closed, there's no fan on.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
I don't feel bad for either of you. I'm in
Portland and it's raining all the time. It's not okay.
This is why we all need to live in the
same city very soon.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
Right, right soon soon? Alrighty.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
So, now that we know the geography of where we
all live, let's get back to why we're here.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Most importantly, we want to discuss true crime stories that
we think that need to be brought into the light,
and we want to share our unique perspective on the
cases and people involved.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
And facing evil is about being the light in the dark.
It's about moving onward and upward and never letting evil
define who you are or who you want to be.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
Alrighty, Trevor, let's have you tell us about this case.

Speaker 5 (02:03):
I hope that in the grief of this moment for
Matthew Shepherd's family, and then the shared outrage across America,
Americans will once again search their hearts and do what
they can to reduce their own fear and anxiety and
anger at people who are different.

Speaker 6 (02:20):
It was a crime that shook the country to its
core and helped accelerate the march towards equality for the
LGBT community. He had blood all over him, and I
asked him what had happened, and he told me that
he thought maybe he had killed someone. He couldn't tell
me everything that had happened. He just said that, yeah,
he had beat him with the.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
Butt of the gun.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Matthew Shepherd was a twenty one year old gay man
who was brutally beaten and killed back in nineteen ninety eight.
At the time, he was in college at the University
of Wyoming in Laramie, and one night he was at
a local bar when two men approached him. It's unclear
why Matthew ended up leaving with them in their car.

(03:03):
Then the two men took Matthew to a field where
they beat and tortured him, supposedly for being gay. They
tied him to a fence and left him there to die.
It wasn't until the following afternoon that a cyclist found
Matthew and called the police. He was rushed to a
nearby hospital in Colorado. This attack immediately became a national

(03:26):
news story. On one website, thousands of people posted daily
well wishes for Matthew and his family. Sadly, Matthew died
of his injuries six days after the attack. The two
killers were eventually captured and convicted of first degree murder,
but this was a wake up call for the entire country.

(03:47):
In the wake of Matthew's death, conversations about hate crimes
and ways to prevent them were popping up in public
forms everywhere. So what really went down that fateful night,
What were the motives behind Matthew's assailants, and how does
his story reveal a need to address homophobia in America,

(04:09):
especially in small towns.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
I already know that this, I mean, this story is
going to be so tough for both of us, right rash.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah. Every time I personally think about Matthew, it's a
mix between wanting to throw up and wanting to cry.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
I know it's you know for me too. I just
I can just remember seeing Matthew's beautiful smile, and I
didn't know him, but he seemed like such a bright
light and just a really sweet soul. And when you
see how he was killed, it's just it's inhumane loss.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
For me.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Of course, this case hits home for me because I
am an openly gay woman. I'm forty three years old.
I came out at the age of thirty, but to
be quite honest, I think I would have come out
much sooner in life if Matthew hadn't been killed. So
Matthew was killed in nineteen ninety eight. I was a

(05:23):
senior in high school in nineteen ninety seven, and when
I found out about the horrific way that Matthew was killed,
I knew that if I came out, I pictured myself
brutally beaten like Matthew. I didn't picture it at the
hand of two assailants. I pictured it at the hand

(05:44):
of my father. And knowing that Matthew was killed most
likely because of his sexuality and because of homophobia, it's
horrifying to me.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
And that just I mean that just if breaks my
heart for so many different reasons, and it's I mean,
this is really a huge reason why this is so
so important and why this show is so important, Like
so we can really address, you know, important issues like this.

(06:18):
I think a good place for us to start is
by talking a little bit about Matthew's upbringing. So Matthew
Shepherd was born in Casper, Wyoming, on December first, nineteen
seventy six. His parents, Judy and Dennis Shepherd. They would
always say that he preferred to be around adults, and
I can kind of relate to that because I just

(06:39):
remember growing up and being around mom, especially in my teens,
Like I always wanted to be around older people. But
for Matthew, you know, he struggled to make friends his
own age, right, And.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
I actually remember reading a quote from his mom, Judy,
and she said that he got teased a lot for
actually being small and unathletic, and that he always felt
sort of out of place, and that might have been why,
you know, it was hard for him to make friends
of his own age. It probably didn't help that his

(07:12):
parents uprooted Matthew when he was just seventeen. And Trevor,
do you know more about the details of what happened
around that time.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Well, Matthew's dad got a job for Saudi Aramco in Dran,
Saudi Arabia, so the parents moved there. Matthew decided he
didn't want to go to Saudi Arabia, so instead he
went to the American School in Switzerland and he studied
theater there and then in May of nineteen ninety five,
Matthew had a very traumatic experience. That summer, he went

(07:45):
on a school trip to Morocco and there Matthew was
assaulted and raped by a group of men. As you
can imagine, the incident deeply traumatized Matthew. He reportedly was
in a near console and state of anxiety. After that point,
he was regularly having panic attacks and this plunged him
into a very deep depression. So he was also admitted

(08:08):
to the hospital multiple times over the next couple of
years for clinical depression and even suicidal ideations.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
I mean, how could you not after something that horrific happens.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
We know that Matthew was, you know, somewhat able to
overcome to some extent, and he did eventually go to
college and he enrolled at the University of Wyoming and
Laramie and Russia. You know, this is a question for you.
I already know because I'm your sister and I know everything,
So I know when you you know, when you came
out to Mom, I know what she said. But for

(08:41):
those that are listening, can you share a little bit
of what Mom said to you.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
When I came out. Yeah? So, Mom as loving and
kind and amazing as she was. I remember the first
thing she asked me was when I told her because
I literally said, Mom, I'm gay, I'm a lesbian, And
She's like, but baby, why do you have to put
a label on it? Like, can't you just say that

(09:06):
you love?

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Love?

Speaker 2 (09:06):
And love all people. I'm like, no, Mom, like I'm
never sleeping with a manigan. I'm one hundred percent a
lesbian and I love women, you know. And that was
the only question she asked me. She was one hundred
million percent supportive from that moment forward, as of course,
my beautiful sister, Evet, you were and are. But that's

(09:27):
not the case for the entire queer community, sadly. But
Matthew and I were so lucky. I had Mom and
Matthew had Judy and another crazy thing to even think about, Like,
dating is super hard period, right, but when you come out,

(09:49):
and especially when you come out during a time when
you know homosexuality was it used to be like a
dirty word, it can be scary, and dating it can
be super hard for someone who's just coming out, and
it was for me. I mean a lot of women
came after me that freaked me out. So I ended
up marrying the first woman I dated, and that's me

(10:11):
and Vana thirteen years later. But you know, from my understanding,
I know that Matthew did try dating, you know, when
he came out and well shortly after, but in nineteen
ninety eight, we know for sure that he met a
thirty six year old named Brian Gooden on the Internet
in a chat room, I think is what they used

(10:33):
to call him, right, Trevor good nineties. Right, Yes, they
ended up talking online for months, but it's unclear if
they ever actually met in person. Brian Goodin would later
say that Matthew was actually afraid to meet in person.
And to me, it just sounds like Matthew was afraid
to be out publicly in a small town like Laramie.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
You know, it's the nineties, you know, he probably had
had reason to fear being publicly out, especially in a
small place like Laramie that's relatively rural and conservative. And
we know this now because later that year, in October
of nineteen ninety eight, Matthew finally decided to put himself
out there. He finally, you know, tried, and that one

(11:20):
time that he did that is when he met the
two men who would ultimately be responsible for his murder.
And that is what we'll talk about when we come
back from a quick break.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
So let's talk about the night that led to Matthew's death.
October sixth, nineteen ninety eight. So that evening, Matthew went
to an LGBTA meeting, and I believe at the time
LGBTA stood for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual Transgender Alliance. So he
went to the meeting on campus to plan for Gay

(11:57):
Awareness Week, and afterwards he went to the Fireside Lounge
in Laramie. So they didn't really have a gay bar
in Laramie, so the fireside was the next best thing.
But no one is really sure why Matthew went there
on that particular night. Still, we do know that he
got there around ten thirty pm, Trevor, what do we

(12:18):
know about what happened next?

Speaker 1 (12:20):
Well, we know that at around eleven forty five pm,
two guys walk into the bar, Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson,
and they're both twenty one years old. They order pictures
of beer and sit down. They're there for a minute.
There was one interesting thing I read where the bartender
that night was actually interviewed and he remembers them as

(12:42):
both being like kind of rude and somewhat like menacing,
like sitting there like there was just something off with
these guys, right, So anyway, around midnight, the two men
walk up to Matthew and the three of them are
talking for a few minutes, and then finally Henderson and
McKinney offer Matthew a ride home. Supposedly, they reportedly all

(13:03):
left the bar together right after midnight. So they all
pile into the front seat of Henderson's truck, Henderson's driving,
and then things take a turn. So McKinney claimed that
Matthew made up pass at him by grabbing his leg,
and so he reacted to this by apparently hitting Matthew

(13:23):
in the face with a gun that he had with
the butt of his gun. And where does this gun
come from?

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Is that normal in Wyoming? Like you have a gun
at a bar?

Speaker 4 (13:34):
I mean, it is a rural state. I mean, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
I mean, so if you think about Henderson's driving, I'm
assuming Matthew's like maybe in the middle or in the
like kind of passenger side, but they're all like in
that kind of like front, full seated area. It's likely
there was like maybe one in the dash right right,
maybe that's where it was and he hit him with

(13:57):
that jeez. I mean, And of course this is all
just what we know from their testimony, because you know,
obviously we don't have Matthew's testimony, so.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Right, right, right, right, right, I remember. So there's two
things that I have to point out that comes right
to mind when I'm thinking about things that Aaron McKinney said. One,
of course, you know, there's an amazing article from Vanity Fair,
which I know we've gotten a lot of our research
from there, that Aaron said something along the lines of,

(14:27):
you know, guess what, we're not gay and we're going
to jack you up, like he said that to Matthew.
And also in his recorded confession when he actually admitted
to killing Matthew, he used multiple homophobic slurs like I'm
not even going to say the word. So it's like
his homophobia was like in him.

Speaker 5 (14:47):
You know.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
A big issue is like what was their intent here
and in this moment?

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Right?

Speaker 1 (14:50):
And I think already, based on what you've described, like
the intent feels clear already, right.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
I mean, I mean we have to remember they were
only in the bar for what fifteen minutes, right, and
they had ordered a picture of beer, and now all
of a sudden they're leaving with Matthew.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Something's not right, Yeah, I mean, if you have a
whole picture, you're gonna down it in fifteen minutes. I
think clearly they had a ulterari your motives here, how
planned it is some unclear, but it only does really
get worse from this point on. So McKinney then orders
Matthew to hand over his wallets. Matthew complies and hands

(15:33):
over the wallet containing all of thirty dollars, and then
McKinney continued to beat Matthew even after getting the wallet.
ABC would later interview McKinney and they asked him why
he kept on beating Matthew after he got his money,
and he said, quote, sometimes when you have that kind
of rage going through you, there's no stopping it. I've

(15:55):
attacked my best friends coming off of meth binges end quote.
So yeah, this guy is not great.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
I mean, it just seems like to me, Aaron McKinney
was violent and you know, hurt people, hurt people.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Yeah, right, yep, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
It seems to me it was some sort of internalized
homophobia that was absolutely coming out.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Absolutely, And it's the reason I think that homophobia exists.
There's I think, you know, a few really big things.
One people can't wrap their head around someone else being gay,
and I think that comes from or stems from, you know, religion.
There's certain religions that have said how awful homosexuality is.

(16:41):
That's why I have a very hard time walking into
any church. But it's also that internalized homophobia stems from
possibly like people who are gay themselves and they hate
themselves so much, you know that they're taking this rage
out in other people. Now I'm not saying that McKinney
was gay, and just you know, I'm not saying, but

(17:05):
maybe do you know what I mean? Like, why else
have so much rage? It just doesn't make any sense
regardless of what the scenario was. Matthew was his target
and his punching bag, and he he didn't stop right. Henderson,
you know, ended up driving all the way out to
the eastern outskirts of Laramie into a neighborhood, this little

(17:29):
housing development called Sherman Hills. They drove down an unpaved
road until they reached a wooden buck fence. And a
wooden buck fence is just a fence that basically is
built in an ex pattern, but it's super secluded. And
the two men ended up forcing Matthew out of the car.

(17:50):
So McKinney ordered Henderson, you know, you know, McKinney's calling
all the shots. At this point, he ordered Henderson to
tie Matthew to the fence post with a clothesline from
the truck. Once Matthew was actually tied to the fence,
McKinney proceeded to again viciously beat him with the butt

(18:10):
of his gun.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, and just to give you an idea here, I
actually looked at the autopsy report, and the coroner sat
in the report that Shepherd was struck nineteen to twenty
one times in the head with the butt of a
I guess it was a Magnum Smith and Wesson pistol,
and that final blow from that pistol irreparably damaged Shepherd's brainstem.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
It's just the brutality of this is like, it's just
it's it's horrible. It's horrendous, Right, It's like unbelievable. Yeah,
I can't even comprehend somebody raging out like this and
killing someone. I mean, I also read that Henderson supposedly
supposedly tried to stop McKinney, hold him back, Yeah, hold

(18:53):
him back, but he tried to cool him down. But
the thing is, like, it's obvious that Aaron was the
aggressor of the two right, right, And it kind of
seemed like McKenney definitely was in charge and Henderson, I mean,
was he just going.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
Along with it?

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah? I mean when Henderson tried to like stop him,
I'm pretty sure like McKinny like smacked him in the
face with his gun and like just like beat him
into submission, you know. So yeah, I don't know if
he's going.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
On with it, but it's weird that still doesn't take
him off the hook.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
No, no, no, no, like no.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
He was okay, maybe, like you said, he wasn't the aggressor,
he wasn't the main person, but he still let it happen.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
Right, and he still drove to the fence where they did.
All yes, you know what I mean, he's so and if.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
He actually felt any remorse too, I mean he would
have called the police immediately afterwards, called an ambulance. But
as we know that that doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right, they left him there to die, Like did they
think he wasn't going to die? I mean, like I
wasn't even thinking about that in my head, Like you know,
like you have this gun, Like why are you beating
him with the gun rather than one your fist? Or
like if you really want to kill him. Why aren't
you shooting him?

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Right?

Speaker 2 (20:00):
I thought about that, and I'm like, do you think
maybe they thought that he was going to survive and
that they were just going to teach this gay boy
a lesson, like.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
I maybe, right, maybe maybe, but we just we don't
know what they thought.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
Obviously, I get.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
The impression they like wanted to physically beat somebody, you know,
like that there was some sort of satisfaction that they
got out of, like causing someone pain rather than just
like a quick death via a shot to the head
or something.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, yeah, which makes it worse, which.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Yeah, I mean it was.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
It's an it's an obvious rage, right, Like we don't
know what was building up and that's behind that range,
what was behind that?

Speaker 5 (20:38):
Right?

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Well, anyways, they end up taking Matthew's shoes and wallet
and they get out of Dodge, leave them there in cold,
freezing temperatures, and then on their way back to Laramie,
the two men get into a fight with two other
men for some unrelated matter. I think they kind of
stumbled upon these other two guys who are like in
the middle of robbing a car, and they kind of

(21:01):
called him out for it, and they ended up getting
in this weird scuffle. So it's because of this little
scuffle that police are called to the scene and McKinnie
and Henderson tried to run away from the police. Then
they left behind their truck with all of Matthew's belongings
like the wallet and his shoes, and they also leave
behind the bloody gun that they used to beat him with.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
They leave all the evidence, right yep.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
But one officer actually chased and tackled Henderson to the ground,
so Henderson was arrested, but McKinney gets away.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Wow, yeah, I mean, this is this story just gets
crazier and crazier.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
So this is the thing. McKinny.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
He goes back to see his girlfriend, Kristen Price, and
she said that he came home around one point thirty
in the morning and he was completely freaking out, panicking,
and he just kept mumbling. She said, he kept mumbling
something like I did something horrible. I did something horrible.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
So we need to take another break here, but we'll
talk about the aftermath and what happened to Matthew and
his assailants after we come back from a break.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
So Matthew was left there alone to die that night,
and he was not found until the following day, at
about six pm, a passing mountain biker noticed what he
thought was a scarecrow tied to a fence, but as

(22:34):
he stopped to look a little bit closer, he realized
it was a human being, a very small man. He
ran to a nearby home immediately and used their phone
because of course they didn't have cell phones at the
time or it wasn't easily accessible, so he immediately called authorities.

(22:54):
Matthew was taken to a hospital in Laramie and then
later transferred to Pudra Valley Hospital in Fort Collins, Colorado.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
And just real quick, here was the official medical list
of injuries that Matthew sustained. Fractures to the back of
the head and front of the right ear, severe damage
to the brainstem like we mentioned earlier, and then around
a dozen small lacerations on the face, head and neck,
and so of course Matthew was comatose. Matthew's parents, Judy

(23:26):
and Dennis, flew in from Saudi Arabia that Friday night,
and the doctors told them that Matthew would likely never
emerge from his coma.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
But meanwhile, the story of what happened to Matthew, it
blew up and it turned into a national news story.
And weirdly, as it turns out, the internet was still
pretty new at this point. I mean, that's really hard
to believe, but it was. It was, and it was
a big part of this case because apparently the Pudro
Valley Hospital they got eight hundred thousand people that were

(24:00):
have said to have checked in on Matthew and they
would go to this particular website to see how he
was doing every single day. This was like, you know,
the early version right of social media, right.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Pre social media, and a lot of.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
The celebrities were speaking out and taking platforms, you know,
against this hate Chriss, like Oprah, like Ellen, and even
Nathan Lane, who I had read, you know, he had
come out publicly to his family. But when this happened,
when this horrific act happened to Matthew, he wanted more

(24:40):
than anything to do it publicly and he did so.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Ah, he came out because of Matthew.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
Yeah he did.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
And even the Shepherds even got a call from then
President Bill Clinton and he sent his best wishes for Matthew.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
But sadly, on October twelve, nineteen ninety eight, in the
early hours of the morning, Matthew Shepherd succumbed to his injuries.
Matthew never regained consciousness after the attack. Matthew was just
twenty one years old. I remember his father's speech in

(25:20):
one of the trials and he said he was fifty
days shy of turning twenty two.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
It's just a baby still, you know, when you think
about it. His life was just beginning, and the life
that he wanted to be involved in was being an
advocate for change.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
One of the articles we read, I think someone said
that he had wanted to become president one day, right,
Like that's the type of person Matthew was. Like, you knew,
at least from everything everyone said about him, that he
was supposed to make a positive difference in this world
in life, and you know now he's doing it in death.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Well, I'm sure one big question that everybody has then
is what happened to his assailants, the people responsible for this,
Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
I want to know what happened.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, Well, if you remember, McKinney fled from the police
when Henderson was arrested and went to his girlfriend, and
both men had girlfriends who helped them come up with
alibis and kind of give them cover. Kristen Price, McKinney's girlfriend,
took him to the hospital where he was admitted with
a hairline fracture to the school. I'm not really sure
how that happened. Police would later say that she and

(26:35):
Russell's girlfriend, a girl named Chassidy Pasley, then tried to
get rid of the evidence for them. So they together
drove fifty miles away, all the way to Cheyenne, Wyoming,
and there they took all of the evidence, Henderson's bloody
clothes and all, and they threw it away and then
they stashed his bloody shoes in a storage shed over

(26:56):
at Chastity's mom's house.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
I mean, but apparently didn't do much good because they
made themselves, they made themselves accessories to the crime and
bad ones right at that.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
I mean, they told everybody everything.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
I mean, they write exactly. But the police still found
their boyfriends, I mean obviously pretty quickly with all of
the evidence that they left. I mean, it's pretty hard
not to find. And they then arrested Aaron McKinny at
the hospital.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
So as you can imagine. Both of them are then
charged with attempted murder, kidnapping, and also aggravated robbery that
was later upgraded to first degree murder, meaning that they
were both eligible for the death penalty. And then the
two men's girlfriends, Chastity Pasley and Kristen Price, were also
charged as accessories to the crime.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, but get this, okay, Henderson actually made a deal
to avoid the death penalty. He agreed to testify against McKinney.
I mean, this really does not surprise me, It really doesn't.
I mean, based on how the whole murder happened, who
was in charge, and you know, all the things. So

(28:07):
he ended up being sentenced to two consecutive life terms
and avoided a trial altogether. So I guess they weren't
exactly the best of friends, I guess.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
And no, when we think about, you know, the whole story,
As I said earlier, we always knew in this story
that Aaron McKinney was the leader of this particular pact,
right so, and we knew that he was an asshole
to him, and he did beat him and hit him
in the face and ordered him around.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
So of course he's gone. We knew this was coming
to save your own life, Yeah, I get it. So
even crazier was McKinney's trial, and the prosecution put forth
the argument that the two men had pretended to be
gay in order to gain Matthew's trust and lure him

(28:59):
into their car, because why else would Matthew have gotten
into that truck, I mean really exactly had he would
have to feel safe, especially, you know, knowing how other
people are in that town. That was also actually backed
up by the testimony of Price, McKinney's girlfriend, who said
virtually the same thing, that they were pretending to be

(29:19):
gay to get him into the truck.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Well, because you know, McKinney came home that night to
her and essentially it just confessed everything to her, right right,
So I mean she got that straight out of McKinney's mouth.
So that made it pretty glaringly obvious testimony.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
Right, I did horrible things?

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah right, Oh my gosh. But then the defense came
up with, in my humble opinion, they came up with
two completely asinine and disgusting arguments, and I'm going to
get pissed off about it. So Trevor, why don't you
tell us so that I'm not yelling into my microphone.

Speaker 5 (29:54):
Right.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
So the first one was that it was just an
attempted robbery gone wrong, that you know, all of this
was just about getting the thirty bucks in Matthew's wallet,
which is crazy, of course not. And then the other
one they use is another one that we've heard about
before and is a big point of contention in public forums,
and that is the gay panic defense. So the gay

(30:16):
panic defense suggests that when a straight person has some
sort of unwanted sexual advance made upon them by someone
of the same sex, which is what McKinney claimed that
Matthew had done to him in the car, that they
then go into a fit of rage, akin to I
guess temporary insanity. McKinney's lawyers believe this would prove that
the attack was not premeditated, right, that this was just

(30:39):
like a reaction, It was just like a gut instinct
and therefore was I guess less heinous in their eyes.
So people have used the gay panic defense before, and
I think since then we've all come to an agreement
as a society that it's nonsensical.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
This isn't a thing, no, no, And thankfully, like in
July of twenty nineteen, in these particular states, they cannot
use this at all.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
It's been banned.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
And that's California, Illinois, Rhode Island, Nevada, Connecticut, Maine, and Hawaii.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
That's every state that the gay panic defense is not
a valid argument.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Right right, it's banned, you cannot use it.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
But how sad is that we have fifty states in
our beautiful country and that you did not read me
fifty states.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
That's what gets me, so I didn't I know.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, I mean my understanding reading online on Reddit about
kind of legal practices is that the gay panic defense
is still kind of widely considered a joke, like it
rarely actually makes it through any sort of legitimate legal
proceeding anymore.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Okay, okay, I'll calm down a little bit.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
No, No, I mean, it's like a super valid concern
to have, and it was a lot more common I
think back in the nineties and eighties and even early
two thousands. But yeah, it's come a long way for
what it's worth. You know, really, the only time you
ever see it anymore is in these kind of high
profile cases where they're kind of using it as a
hail Mary of some sort to get them off. But

(32:07):
you know, I think for whatever it is worth, you know,
the Matthew Shepherd case was a big public example of
how this panic defense can be used very poorly and
ultimately helped it, you know, kind of get blacklisted from
legal right defense proceedings.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
So that's why we're here, right, We're here to make
up a positive difference. And you're so right because Matthew
his case, Thank goodness, the judge dismissed the gay panic defense,
and so the jury ultimately found Aaron McKinney guilty of

(32:43):
first degree murder. But in a very interesting and compassionate twist,
the Shepherds actually stepped in to save Aaron McKinney from
the death penalty. On November fifth, Judy Shepherd made a
deal with McKinney's lawyers to actually save his life, and

(33:04):
so Erin McKinney was sentenced to two consecutive life terms
without the possibility of parole. And I have to say,
I know, I know, I honestly prior to today, not that
I didn't think that Dennis, you know, Matthew's father, you know,

(33:24):
was supportive of this, But I've always heard Judy right,
Judy kept saying, you know how she's forgiving him and
wanting to save his life. But when I watched Yvette
had me watch The Laramie Project today, which is an
incredible film.

Speaker 4 (33:42):
Powerful, powerful, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Based on you know, a play, but it's it's taken
from actual transcripts of what the people in Laramie said.
Like they came and they interviewed all these people and
they they they re enacted Dennis Shepherd's speech at Aaron
McKinney's trial, and he basically said to him, like Judy
and I believe in the death penalty. However, we believe

(34:06):
in healing, and that is why we're giving you life.
You deserve to die, but we're giving you the gift
of life so that you think about Matthew Shepherd ever.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
Every single day.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yep, oh every single day. Excuse me, chicken out was yeah,
that was that was so powerful. So there was one
sliver of good to come out of this tragedy, and
that was the Matthew Shepherd and James Bird Junior Hate
Crimes Prevention Act. So, Trevor, can you tell us a
little bit about this?

Speaker 1 (34:36):
I sure can.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
So.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
The other name on that bill is James Byrd obviously,
and a little bit about him. He was a black
man who was decapitated by three white supremacists after they
dragged him behind their truck and the same year, nineteen
ninety eight. Those two names are attached to this bill,
and the bill does a few things, such as in
the federal Hate Crime Statute, it removes the requirement that

(35:00):
victims are targeted because they are engaged in a federally
protected activity such as voting or attending school, for example.
The bill also extends the hate Crime Statute to cover
violent crimes based on a person's gender, sexual orientation, gender identity,
or disability. None of those things were there before. The
bill authorizes the Department of Justice to assist state in

(35:23):
local governments and investigating or prosecuting hate crimes so they
can get the support of the FBI or other federal
agencies you know, when looking into cases like Matthew's. And
then lastly, it authorizes grants to jurisdictions local police forces
to help investigate and prosecute these hate crimes, so just
giving them more money, you know, more feed on the

(35:44):
ground to make sure it gets the proper investigation it needs. Anyways,
this bill was signed into law in two thousand and
nine by Barack Obama.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
To me, like, this bill was so important, but it's
also rather heartbreaking that it took from nineteen ninety eight
to two thousand and nine to be signed into law.

Speaker 4 (36:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
I did find this report from the Human Rights Campaign
or better known as the HRC, which tells us that
hate crimes based on sexual orientation represent sixteen point seven
percent of hate crimes, and that's the third largest category
after race and religion, right.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
Right, And I mean I can only imagine how much
worse those numbers are, especially in a small town like Laramie, Right,
I mean when we.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
Think about it back in the nineties.

Speaker 3 (36:33):
I mean, I mean we can think about it back
in the nineties, but we can think about it now
to write still to this day, you know, but the
anti gay sentiment was was just even worse back then.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
But we still have so much work to do, you know, still.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
One hundred percent. And you have to remember too, that's
like the height of the AIDS epidemic. Right. It could
not have been easy for Matthew to live in that
environment and be out in that environment, especially in Laramie.
I mean, he probably couldn't even say that he was gay,

(37:15):
because you know, homosexuality had this paranoia and this stigma
that was surrounding it. I think it's much better now personally,
but you.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Know, yeah, I want to maybe dig into that just
for a second, which is, you know, this concept of
being gay in small town America. I think it's something
you know, we don't really talk about a lot. No,
So Vanity Fair actually interviewed a number of local folks
over in Laramie just to get a better idea of
the culture and what people thought of gay people there.
And there's one quote in the article that says, quote,

(37:45):
a number of residents told me that they consider Matthew
Shepherd the first gay person that they ever quote unquote met,
So obviously people aren't exposed to a lot of gay
people in small towns like Laramie. There was one interviewee
named Milk Green who said he thought Matthew's murder was
quote unquote a stupid crime. But he also said I
have a hard time relating to homosexuality. I don't understand

(38:08):
it end quote. So again, there's a lot of I
don't want to say ignorance, but just lack of understanding
of gay people. In these small towns, right.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
And I think it's just, you know, people are so
accustomed to growing up and being taught certain things right
by their parents, and they haven't stepped outside of that
world to do and know better. And that's why, that's
why we have so much work to do, so much

(38:39):
work to do so much work, especially like educating folks
on everything on gay people, on gay issues, right, and
this show and talking about these cases like it really
inspires me as a human being just to do better,
to be better at all times.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, I think Matthew being in this kind of small
town was maybe not the best thing for him. I
think it made him especially vulnerable to you know, be gay,
having gone through what he went through, you know, when
he was sexually assaulted, and then having to be you know,
in this small town that doesn't really understand him, especially
in the nineties, like we're all saying, you know, I

(39:21):
mean Russia, you live in Portland, Yeah, I live in
Los Angeles that you live in San Francisco. I think
for places like this, it's.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
So much easier, to much safer.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Yeah, it's safer, you know, as like queer people we
can you know, walk down the street and not really
fear as much for our lives but as yeah yeah,
but as those kind of you know, testimonies from those
local Laramie people say, you know, they just they don't
understand gay people. They don't really know anything about gay people,
and that leads to problems, just like what happened to Matthew.

(39:55):
So I guess the big question here is what do
we do about that? I mean, we're making progress, but
how we change that?

Speaker 2 (40:01):
I think there's two huge things that we can do. One,
I truly believe that representation matters. Like the great Harvey Milk,
that one of the most amazing gay icons. You know,
he told people like come out, like come out, be out,

(40:22):
Like the more gay people that people know, they'll realize like, oh,
like Rash is just you know, a great, nice person.
Trevor is a nice, beautiful person. You know, Like, representation matters.
I think the more people that are out, I think
the safer it will be because there'll be more of
us in numbers. But I think the a real, like

(40:43):
great answer is also creating safe spaces for gay people everywhere,
even in those small towns, especially in the small towns right.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Especially, And that's like when we were watching, you know,
the show The Laramie Project today, It's like there was
a community. You know, they were small in numbers to
begin with, but after this happened, after this tragedy happened,
the numbers started to grow, right, So more people came out,
and more people came out, Yes that have lived there,

(41:15):
you know, their whole lives, They came out. So, you know, unfortunately,
and we talk about this all the time, why does
it always take, you know, tragedy to make change happen. Well,
we're near the end of the show today, and that
means it's time for our Emua, our final message of

(41:37):
hope and healing. I'd like to use this opportunity to
honor Matthew, his family, and most of all, his mother, Judy.
You have to remember she chose to help save the
life of the man who killed her son. We can
all learn about unconditional compassion from Judy Shepherd.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Absolutely, she was faced with such an incredibly painful and
violent situation, yet she responded with kindness. And I think
we need more people like Judy Shepherd in the world
because maybe if we had more Judy Shepherds, more people
who led with kindness, we'd have less tragedies like the

(42:22):
murder of Matthew Shepherd. Lead with kindness, onward and upward.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
Emua, emua.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Well, that's our show for today. We'd love to hear
what you thought about today's discussion and if there's a
case you'd like us to cover. You can always find
us on social media or email us at Facing Evil
Pod at Tenderfoot dot.

Speaker 4 (42:49):
Tv until next time.

Speaker 7 (42:52):
Aloha.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Facing Evil is a production of iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV.
The show is hosted by Russia Paquerero and a Vet Gentile.
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf
of iHeartRadio, with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk, Donald
albright In Payne Lindsay our executive producers on behalf of

(43:42):
Tenderfoot TV, alongside producer Tracy Kaplan. Our researcher is Claudia Daffrico.
Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Find us on
social media or email us at Facing Evil Pod at
tenderfoot dot tv. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio or Tenderfoot TV,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

(44:06):
to your favorite shows,