2023: My Strike with Adam Conover

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ladies and gentleman Donald Ebody, Donald Nice. He's wearing his.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hot California. Don't you have Arizona, Nevada?

Speaker 3 (00:17):
As this motherfuckeris alte No.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
This is a really good smoothie I just got. Oh,
it's got I think it's got dates in it or
figs in it or some ship dates smoothie?

Speaker 3 (00:29):
What is that?

Speaker 1 (00:29):
I didn't hear you guys ever go to Earth Cafe
a couple of Yeah, of course, Earth Cafe is my jam.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
It's Earth Cafe Earth You.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
It's spelled for you listeners who might one day visit
West Hollywood, California. It's spelled you are th h And
it's really good. You know what I like to get?

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Donald Deez motherfucking nuts.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Way, mister, what's his name, mister mister uh, mister beats.
What's his name? Daniel, mister be the beast, his beast,
mister beast. He's got God. This guy is fucking breaking
in the money. He's got a freak Anyway, his team
I know, and he has chocolate that's called D's Nuts.
I don't know why I'm giving this guy a promo

(01:16):
because I haven't even tried these nuts. But his team
slid into my DMS saying they wanted to send me
something and it looked really good. It looked like Reese's
peanut butter cups.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
I don't want to I don't necessarily want to eat
mister beasts. Well it's called these nuts, so it doesn't work,
but it's funny. You know, it really works. I'm sorry
I heard this on the internet. My kid is now
surfing YouTube when we're in the car on the way
to basketball, and I heard a really good D's Nuts

(01:47):
one and I don't want to say it because I
don't want to sound like I'm kind of like, you know,
but the joke is the dude goes, what's your name?
And he goes imagine And the guy goes, imagine Dragon,
What imagine Dragon? These nuts all over your face? And

(02:09):
I lost it.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
My kid played this ship and I lost it. I
lost the best dad because but.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Donald Donald's the perfect dad for a little teenage boy
because he's.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Like, he's nuts. My kid's nine.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
You reminded me of something I learned this weekend from
a sixteen year old Donald. Have you heard of the
expression that's now on TikTok and a sixteen year old
boy explained it to me. It's called the giacht. Is
that like when no, Donald, that's an egot. Okay, what
it's used to describe, Joel, you might want to adopt this,

(02:48):
write it down. It's when you see a really nice,
juicy bottom, and that's called the giach. Do you know
why it's called the giyat? Donald?

Speaker 3 (02:58):
Why?

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Because when you see it, you go yeah, no.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Oh, my word, the children.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
That's exactly how I felt when they said, imagine dragon,
these nuts all over your face.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
I laughed for like five minutes. But yo, look, I don't.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Want Henry Lawrence who taught me this, And I'm like,
I don't understand. Why are they calling a nice bubble
butt a gillacht? He goes, because when you see it,
you think gillacht diale.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
That's just horrible.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
That's why I thought you'd like that. You think it's horrible.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
I like these nuts jokes better. But all right, that's
just me.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, I saw mission impossible. It was fucking awesome.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
It didn't do that well.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Well, it didn't do that well?

Speaker 3 (03:52):
And are we allowed to talk about that? Okay? Now
this is where we get we're not allowed to talk
about this.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
We're not allowed to talk about seeing a movie, Joel,
I think some.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
People will constitute that as promotion.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Well, you can leave that in. You can leave that
in because we're learning, all right, guys, So let's just
get to the obvious. There's a SAG strike, there's a
Writer's Guild strike. We're not allowed to talk about Scrubs
because one of the rules that we received is you
cannot even promote a show that would have been struck
had it been filming now, and obviously Scrubs would have

(04:26):
been struck, right.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
Donald, Yep?

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Now, Joelle, I saw that full House of the TV
show they just started a rewatch podcast and it said
that they had received some sort of permission from SAG
to do it, and I was like, I'm gonna ask
Joelle about that.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Yeah, so the rules have come down and there's.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
A little bit confusing.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
So basically, so SAG wrote to iHeart it was basically like, hey,
you guys can continue to do rewatch podcasts if you're
under con tracked to do them.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
So okay.

Speaker 4 (05:02):
Then we got through the SAG rules we're going through
with a fine line and it said if you are SAG,
you cannot promote a show. And then sag asked cosplayers
not to promote a show if they ever want to
be in the union. So then I was like, the
waiver seems interesting and a little bit confusing, and so
you know, when you came back and you're like, I

(05:23):
don't think we should do it, I was like, Okay,
I think it's a good to be in alignment with
the union and support and we are a very visible podcast,
and so I like the idea, and we're looking for
ways to pivot when we run out of Scrubs episodes.
So I thought, you know what, this might be a
been few time for us to try some new things.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Joelle, I actually said that to Donald because Donald and
I went to picket Netflix today to show our support
for our union, and I said to him, I'm in
the car. I think it's actually fine because it'll get
us practicing and doing other things but the show since
we're running out of episode and we want the show

(06:02):
to continue.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
M Yeah, I think it's a good opportunity for us
in a good way for us to show our support
and hopefully educate folks. I'm like, why it's important to
be in alignment with the union with the union is
trying to get for everybody.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
It's a big deal. What's happening right now?

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, you know, whether you agree with it or whether
you don't agree with it, the fact that all of
these people are coming together for one cause, for one
purpose is powerful no matter.

Speaker 5 (06:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
That was a conversation. That's another conversation. We'll get into
it later on too, as we get into the show.
But that was another conversation Zach and I had in
a car, like what are we doing this for?

Speaker 3 (06:42):
What's the end game? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Or We have a great guest today whose name is
Adam Conover, and he hosts a show called Adam Ruins Everything,
but most importantly for our purposes, he's been very vocal
on social media. Choell, correct me. I'm ever wrong about
explaining this strike and the Writer's Guild strike to people

(07:06):
that don't understand it, because most of our listeners, as
we obviously understand, are not in the industry, and you
might think, like, what is this about. You know, when
you think of Hollywood, you think of rich, famous celebrities,
and of course this strike is not about the rock
It's not really about even Donald and I. It's not

(07:26):
about a lot of people I mean in the macro,
of course it is, but it's really about the fact
that an animal correct the stat if I'm wrong. But
I just recently read it, and that is that only
twelve percent of SAG members make the minimum amount, which
is twenty six thousand dollars a year in order to
qualify for health insurance. So it's about so many people

(07:51):
that are barely getting by with the way the industry
currently is, and how all of these new modes of
receiving the entertainment that is streaming, have cut out the
main way that actors and writers were making money, which
was participating in residuals and of course AI and.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
All the Yeah, well I want to get into AI too,
because you know, I heard rumors and I don't know
if this is true, and we'll talk to Adam about this,
but I heard rumors that they had already started contacting
people or have taken pictures of people's likenesses in the background,

(08:33):
paid them one time, and then used, yeah, there, this
is true.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Well what it is we can ask Adam. But as
I understand it, it wasn't for a perpetuity. Although that's
super sketch. Who's gonna who's gonna look and and and
be able to who's gonna freaking who's gonna audit whether
you're right. But let's say you're on Let's say you're
a background person on Game of Thrones or or something,
some big crowd scene. Right, So they pay you to
be a background performer for the day, which is I

(09:01):
don't know, two hundred fifty dollars, like you sure the
sagmentum what the sagmentimum background is? And then they scan
you because they're gonna also use you digitally in crowd
scenes in that show. So the ridiculous deal seem to be,
we're gonna pay you for one working day, but then

(09:21):
also scan you and use you in perpetuity on this
show for that whatever that minimal day rate is. So
that's all crazy stuff. That's that that that's happening, and
we're gonna ask Adam all about that. But most importantly,
we want to have Adam on the show for our listeners.
Because we, the four of us, only know little tidbits
about it. We wanted someone to come on who could

(09:43):
explain it all, not only to us but to you
and hopefully we can all gain some insight what this
what this is all about, and what is the endgame?
As Donald said, how does this possibly end? And how
long could it feasibly be? I gotta say one funny
story before bite, Adam, and do you remember the the

(10:04):
Key and Peel sketch you guys were where Barack Obama
gets off the stage and to all the African American people,
he's giving the hip hop hugs. This is exactly what
happened when Donald and I were just picking it. Donald,
every single African American actor was like yo to Donald

(10:25):
giving him hugs. They remembered him, they knew him in
New York, they know his mom, all this stuff. Like
Donald was like fucking basically Obama on the picket line.
And then they'd seen me in like, oh hey, how
are you? How are you?

Speaker 3 (10:37):
How are Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:38):
I was like, I was like, dude, this is real life.
This is the real life version of that Key and Peel.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
See, this hasn't happened in a long time where people were.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Like, yo, fuck Faison, Donald, Faison, I'm sorry, what's your name?

Speaker 1 (10:51):
To Zach that really happened to him. And then the
same guy who said that was like, yeah, I'm killing
it with the Spectrum commercials with Donald Donald. I was
like when I left the picking like Donald should run
for office. I mean, everybody loved Donald. They were going crazy,
They're asking for selfies with Donald.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
I got haters. I got haters. Don't everybody got haters? Donald,
I got, I gotta have haters. I ain't doing it right.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Donald. You must have left that picket line being like, damn,
I'm beloved, no, because you always tell that story how
it was scrubs guy, and today today it was it was.
It was definitely Donald Faison and white scrubs and.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
White scrubs, right, all.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Right, So let's count in and inviting Adam.

Speaker 6 (11:39):
Go ahead, Donald sties about sure, we made about a
bunch of.

Speaker 5 (11:50):
The stories. So here, ladies and gentlemen, give it up.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Oh god, I don't think that's how you say his name, Donald,
How do you say it? Adam Conover? I did say that,
I know, but you said it with your Oprah voice,
and it was really hard to understand.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
You're a dick, Adam.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
You're very handsome man. Yeah, I told you that.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
I was expecting something else.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Show, and so I know what you look like, but
I didn't know I was gonna get movement?

Speaker 2 (12:37):
Is I am never well, this is harassment. I have
never seen your show. It's fine, But as soon as
I saw you, I was like, hello.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, yeah, Well now this chat's going to be If
you guys need to google image if you don't know
what Adam looks like. He's a very handsome man, and
I think it's gonna make this chat even more enjoyable.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Donald I agree. Wow you guys, You guys are too nice.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Adam, thank you so much for coming on. We this
is our very first episode not talking about our television
show because we are honoring the strike rules and we
all have questions we don't know understand we have. We
know we know some basic things about the strike. Our audience, obviously,

(13:22):
for the most part, is not entertainment, and we thought
they probably have lots of questions because they probably are
sitting there going why is Leonardo DiCaprio on strike? I
don't understand he has a yacht.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
And also for those audience members out there who do
know who are in the union and who are actors
but still don't know what's going on, this is a
great conversation to have because there are a.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Bunch of people out there.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
There are a bunch of people out there that have
no clue what's happening.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yes, I'm happy to answer every question as best I can,
and uh my credentials in that matter, in case you're
curious are I'm on the board of the Writer's Guild
of America West and the negotiating committee for the Writers
Guild on a sag After a member as well, so
I know a little bit more about the Writers Guild
than about sag After. But I bet I can answer
almost every one of your questions.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Okay, Well, let's start at the very beginning, which Donald
is you know, is a very good place to start.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Let's start at the very Okay, So which line should
we go to if we're looking for hot chicks?

Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Donald wants to know first and foremost, even as a
married man. As a married man, Donald wants to know
which picket line has the most baddies.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
The answer is absolutely Netflix. You need to go to
the Netflix line.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Okay, Well, there you go, Donald, you've been informed that's
actually where we picketed today. We picketed today. Let's get
to the basics, Adam, and we'll just start with SAG
if you don't mind, because that's the one that is
obviously become on our minds. I'm in the Writers' Guild too,
but Donald's in SAG and obviously one hundred and sixty
thousand people just went on the strike, and those were
all the most of the celebrity names that people know.

(14:58):
So we've explained it in mediocre terms to people trying
to explain the idea of residuals, and we can will
separate AI out for just for the moment, let's just
talk about how people's livelihoods have been changed with the
move to streaming. Can you can you explain it like
I'm five, as they say to our audience who are
not in entertainment.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
Sure, So the last time writers and actors went on
strike together was nineteen sixty. It was sixty three years ago,
and what we want in that negotiation was this thing
called residuals. And the residual payment as it was then
and mostly still is today, is that when something that
we make that you know, we create as the original
artists who created the work, and then this includes directors

(15:39):
as well and crew members, every time that airs, we
receive a percentage of the profit or we receive a payment,
So it's not technically a percentage of the profit. It's
a it's you know, we receive a payment every single
time it airs. And you know that was invented in
the days of broadcast, then updated for cable where you know,

(15:59):
it's near programming, so every time they choose to rerun it,
you get a payment. It also applies to theatrical releases
and you know physical DVD as well, And this ended
up becoming a fundamental part of our our compensation where
you know, as folks may not realize that for the

(16:20):
average working actor or writer, you know, you work one
job and you get paid for that job, but it
can be six months to a year before you get
your next job, during which time you're not sitting around,
you're working. You're a plot you know, you're auditioning, you're
writing spec scripts, you're developing, right, but you're not paid
for that work. So residuals became an essential part of
how you know what it's like to make a living

(16:41):
in this town. So, for example, I created a show
called Adam Ruins. Everything I wrote on that show I
also acted in it, and every every year that the
show aired, I would receive something like twenty five thousand
dollars in residuals for all the various runs of the episodes,
and the residual is it's the first time it runs,
and it goes down every time. So, you know, the

(17:03):
first job, we get the twenty five thousand dollars. Now
I get maybe five grand year or something like that.
Now twenty five thousand dollars. I'm not getting rich off
of that, but that's like, you know, part of a
mortgage payment for your year. You're right, that's just that's
part of a living and it adds up with everything,
all the other money that you're making. It helps you
make a life here.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Because coming here you gotta hustle regardless. And we all know, yes,
right that, we all know this town is about hustling
and it never fucking pays. But you know, back then,
at least we got some sort of you know, here
you go, here's an extra bonus of we played it again.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
And by the way, some people wonder, what is the
concept behind a residual at all? Why do we think
we deserve one? Because most people who do a job,
they're like, well, you know, if I help build a boat,
I don't get money every time someone rents the boat
or whatever. Right, the reason for that is and this
is I think one of the interesting things that's underappreciated
is that most writers or performers, you own the copyright

(17:58):
to what you make. Right, you write a novel, you
own the copyright to it, and you have to get
paid every time. Right. In the entertainment industry, we give
the copyright to the movie studio when I write a
screenplay or an episode of television. I don't retain the
copyright like a novelist does, right, I give it to
the company. And so the residual is like a really
payback for me assigning the copyright to them. So sorry,

(18:22):
what was your question going to be, Zach?

Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know, I want to just help parse out for
people to remove the celebrity aspects of not that obviously
those people want residuals, Donald and I want residuals. But
I want to just parse out that everyone in Hollywood,
for the most part is a freelance worker. Yes, some people, yes,
have been very lucky and made a ton of money,

(18:45):
but think of the bulk of the guild, and those
can range from people who work every once in a while,
and the are date players who get a line here
and there. They're the smaller characters. Those could be people
that have a big show but have had haven't had
a show again in years. And those can be also
a background performers who works as the people in the

(19:07):
background and everything and anything in betw.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I'm about to say, there's so much. There's so many
other things. There are people that were on television shows
for years and didn't get paid money because of course
the way contracts were made, and didn't get paid a
lot of money. And we are led to believe that
their persona in the world is big and they're famous
and everything like that, but their check was little.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
Right, Yeah. Think of that ultimate example of that wonderful actor.
I can't think of his name, Joelle, you might know it,
who was on The Cosby Show and he was working
as a grocery bagger and I remember it went viral
because the world was shocked, and he was like, noh, yeah,
why are you shocked? I worked for a while on
the Cosby Show, but I haven't worked in years, and
now I need to make a living and pay for

(19:51):
my family. And there was such an outpouring of love
for him. He ended up getting lots of jobs, but
that was a that was a moment that I think
is really apropos for this discussion, because there's a guy
who who isn't just a who. Maybe he's not a
household name, but he was a working actor we all
grew up watching, and now he's working as a was

(20:12):
working as a grocery bagger. So I just would help you,
I guess, Adam, I want you to help us explain
to the audience how to parse out, yeah, the different
aspects of the union.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Look, I saw I saw a great Sorry, sorry.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I want to say. His name is Jeffrey Owens. Jowell
just told me go ahead.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Oh yeah, I mean Jeffrey's story is the is the
common story in Hollywood. I saw some stats today that
if you go look at the number of actors who
have appeared on your favorite show, look at like Law
and Order, Right, thousands of actors have appeared on Law
and Order over there. Now that's a long show, but
even a shorter run show, it'll be you know, a
thousand actors have been on Mad Men or whatever. Right,

(20:48):
we're talking background actors. We're talking like, you know, people
who have one or two lines, et cetera. And those
are middle class jobs. When you turn on your television.
Ninety five percent of the people you see on there
are just trying to make a mortgage payment. You know,
Mariska Hargeta is making a ton of money. The guy
who's playing the dead body is like hoping to hoping
to pay rent this month, right, right, And so the

(21:09):
decline of residuals has hit those folks. So I said that,
you know, for writing in Adam Ruins Everything, I would
receive about twenty five grand a year, a little bit
less for acting. Let's say ten something like that, right,
my total residual payment. I created a new show for Netflix,
six episodes called The G Word. Came out in last year,
twenty twenty two. I just received my first residual payment

(21:30):
for the entire year of that being on the largest
platform in the world, whereas Adam Ruins Everything was on
the smallest channel on basic cable. My entire year's residual
was five hundred dollars, which is obviously shit.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Oh shit, dude, listen, man, all right, If I'm on
a show and it streams like a beast on whatever
streaming platform it is, and somebody else is on the
show and it doesn't stream like a beast, here's the question,
shouldn't I get paid more money in residuals because my

(22:05):
show was watched more?

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Or I mean, these.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Are want to connect. I just want to I just
want to connect the dots for everyone. So Adam's first
show that he's referencing where he made the twenty five
and the ten thousand dollars, was a basic a smaller
basic cable show on te T Now. Yes, yeah, on
True TV. Now that we the whole world has moved
to streaming is basically gone. I'm surprised you even got
five hundred dollars there. It's just not a thing. The
Netflix model and Netflix began it, if I'm not mistaken,

(22:32):
was we're not going to participate in that there There
is no or maybe there's a miniscool amount there, but
for all intents and purposes, there is no residual. We're
buying you out and there is no back end money.
How did they get around that, Adam, I guess because
it was a new platform. It wasn't cable, it was streaming, right, correct.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
So you know, one of the problems with you know,
labor negotiations in America, this is just how it works
in our industry is every time there's a new format,
we have to renegotiate for that format. So you know,
the when the Writers Guild was founded ninety years ago,
SAG after around the same time, or sorry, SAG was
originally just the Screen Actors Guild, and you know, first

(23:10):
it just covered film. Then television was invented, and the
unions had to fight to cover television, and that that
was just broadcast, right NBC, ABC, CBS. Then cable was invented,
and so we had to fight to cover cable, had
to fight to cover HBO, and now streaming and.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
That was DVDs HS and I guess probably covered DVD.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
And if you if you remember the last writers strike
in two thousand and seven and eight, the entire point
of that strike was just to get jurisdiction over the internet,
just to say those jobs have to be union. And
thankfully the writers at that time went on strike and
won that for everybody. Now that you know streaming has
taken over, we are going back to get the money

(23:51):
right because our contracts just the formulas are worse for
they're very very poor for streaming, whereas they're quite good
and mature for broadcasting cable. And so we're trying to
get that parody.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Well, what's crazy is that they'll, you know, like always,
they'll scream, we don't have the money, though, where's the money?
What fucking money are you talking about? I'm not making
any money.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
I mean, yeah, I got paid my salary and then
got that bonus that you know, extra forty three but
you know, the million, but you know that's not where
what are you talking about? That we have money to
pay all of you actors?

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, So what do you say to that, Adam, Because
obviously the studios, the streamers, line and Bob Iger came
out and said some things that were quite unpopular, but
basically saying, the industry is at a tough spot. It's
recovering from COVID. This is the worst time for this.
We don't have money. This is going to hurt the
industry more at a time when it's just trying to recover.

(24:50):
I'm paraphrasing. He was. You know, it was round widely received,
very poorly, as he felt like he was the living
incarnation of mister Burns from The Simpsons, especially since he's
collecting some obscene amount of salary every year.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, he had just renegotiated in a salary for himself
an extra fifty million a year.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
An extra fifty million a Year's.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
That's my understanding.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, So what do they say in response other than
we can't afford this.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
I mean, that's that is all that they say, you know.
And here's the thing though, that's not a line that
we can listen to, because you know, we never ask
them and they say, oh, yeah, now's a great time.
Business is booming. Pull up a chair, you know, we're
ready to negotiate, right, They always oh, it is such
a bad time. Oh we're all tightening our belts. Oh,
we can't afford it. Right, But if you look at

(25:43):
the actual numbers and the writers build we have a
research department that spends all day every day analyzing how
much money the companies are making. They're all making more
profit than ever, they're all making more revenue than ever.
And the show budgets have gone up. Show budgets have
gone up by fifty percent over the last ten years.
Writer pay has gone down by twenty three percent. And
I don't have the figures on hand for actors, but

(26:03):
if listening to you know, working actors such as yourselves
and my friends who do that, and just my own
experiences as an actor. It's it's clearly harder to make
a living here than it was, you know, just five
or ten years ago. So you know, now what has
happened is that they had a boom because of the pandemic.
Everyone signed up for streaming services, and the boom is

(26:24):
like fading a little bit, right, But that was That
doesn't mean they're unprofitable. And also they all decided to
buy each other. So Warner Brothers Discovery, you know, took
on immense amounts of debts that David Zoslov could you know,
his small company, Discovery, he could buy this giant company,
Warner Brothers. It was a terrible deal. He's you know,
they're losing money on the deal because they're having to
finance all this debt. But that's not our fault. It

(26:47):
doesn't you know, that doesn't mean that we should pay
Like if you work at a grocery store, you know,
the grocery store can't say, hey, guess what, people aren't
buying as many big beans, we're gonna pay you less,
you know, like it's I'm sorry, you know, they're still
making aid amounts of money on our work. And by
the way, they are rocketing towards profitability. All these companies.
They're adding ads, they're adding free tiers. I mean, you

(27:09):
know all if you listen to their earnings calls right
where they talk to the stock market, they say, Wow,
everything's going so great. We're growing, growing, growing, We've got
all these new movies coming out. Oh my god, most
profitable ever. Blah blah blah blah blah. Then they sit
down with us and they plead poverty. It's ridiculous, you know,
it's just propaganda.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
I mean it's always been that though, right, Like, it's
always been what it is though. You know, it's hardest.
The hardest thing to do in this town is get
a movie made. That's the hardest thing to do. Yeah,
we'll make it.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
What will happen? So it's been what has it been
with the writers? It's been thirteen weeks? Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Uh, let's see something. Yeah, we're in the eighties of
days in terms.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Of well, is that correct? You put that in my notest? Okay,
so I think ye, So that's Joelle says, that's I
can't do math. But Joelle says, that's thirteen weeks. It
goes without saying it helps that one hundred and sixty
thousand people just additionally went on strike when the actors
joined them. You know, the question on everyone's mind is

(28:10):
how long could this possibly play out? These studios are
definitely putting out there that they're in no rush to
to settle this, that they're going to try and wait
it out.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
They know some of them are partying in the Hamptons
as we speak.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
I just want to say that, you know the other
thing I want to just touch on. I know I'm
asking you two questions at once, but I'm excited to
have you. I have so many questions. But the you know,
it goes without saying. This affects so many people outside
of these guilts because the industry is on pause. So
whether you're a restaurant in the neighborhood, or you're a
dry cleaner that service the industry, or you're any of

(28:47):
the crew positions that aren't in these guilds that are
that are that are forced to stop your work. People
are really going to start or already are starting to struggle,
And the question on every one's minds is how long
can this go? How long can these studios sort of
fold their arms and make people wait to come to

(29:10):
the table with a real offer.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
First of all, you know, there's no way for me
to predict how long it's going to go. And anyone
who tells you they have a prediction is making shit
up and they're they're bullshitting you, and you should ignore them.
But but how do we think about how long it's
going to go? Look, the only way that a labor
union ever loses is if their own members say, you

(29:32):
know what, this has gone on too long. We want
to go back to work and take a bad deal,
you know, like we just you know what, let's just
let's just go back to work. Everything was fine, no worries, right,
just so we'll take an okay deal. I don't think
that's gonna happen this year.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Because I really hope that doesn't happen, because if that doesn't,
I don't think what the fuck were we doing?

Speaker 3 (29:50):
I don't think and I don't think it will donald
because I think actors and writers know that if we
don't have this fight right now, we're not going to
have jobs to go back to five years from now.
That you know it's gonna our careers will be turned
into gigwork. Uh, you know, the companies will have eradicated
the writing room. They'll have like you know, they'll be
stealing everybody's likenesses with AI And even if you get

(30:12):
a job, it won't pay enough to be able to
make a living. And we're gonna be doing this nights
and weekends in between shifts at Gelson's or you know,
at our H and R Block job. Right, that'll be
the new reality. That's what Bill, That's what it is
in a lot of countries like Korea, that's what the
entertainment industry is.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Sorry, go ahead, And that's what Bill Lawrence had said.
Another thing he thought said that I thought was really insightful.
He said, you know, this will become a career that
is only accessible to people who are wealthy, people who
have a spouse who can support them, people who have
a family that can support them. And obviously that's gonna

(30:46):
skew away from minorities. It's gonna skew away from all
sorts of folks who are less likely statistically to have
some sort of of generational wealth that enables them to
pursue the art form. Uh, whether with making under twenty

(31:07):
six thousand dollars a year or it'll be like.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
A freaking high school elective all of a sudden, like, yeah,
the fuck, you know what I mean, Like it's not
even part of.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
The curriculum anymore.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
It's just a freaking you gotta go freaking sign up
for that shit, and if you're lucky, you get picked,
you know, yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
I mean. And there's a really good example of that,
by the way, it's called reality shows. Right. People who
work on reality shows, they pay you nothing to do it.
They do it because they're already rich. And then how
do they make money. They make money off of doing
all the ancillary stuff like selling, you know, brand putting
their name on stuff and branding things, et cetera. Right, Right,
And I think that we as a culture and we
as an industry don't want that to happen to our industry.

(31:45):
I don't think we're gonna let it happen. So I think, uh,
I think that the workers are incredibly united and we're
not gonna leave the picket line. So how does that
mean things are going to end? Well, it's gonna end
when the companies come back to the table and they
make deals with the unions that that the unions can accept.
So how long is that gonna happen. It is gonna
take for that to happen. I think it's I think
we're going to start to see it over the next

(32:07):
couple weeks and months. Because when the Writer's Guild went
on strike, the Writer's gold Is historically been the only
militant union, the only union that went on strike, So
they spend all year planning for a Writer's Guild strike
in case there is one, we'll just hold them off
for three months, right, and they plan to hold us off.
Nobody though expected sag After to go on strike because
it hasn't happened since the eighties, and the two unions

(32:29):
haven't been on strike together since the sixties, so they
had no plan. So literally after the strike was called,
you know, we're about a week and a half after
the strike was called. Now, the CEO spent the first
week just shitting themselves, just going, hold on a second,
how much money are we losing? What just shut down?
What can I do? What thing that I was counting

(32:50):
on isn't happening now? Fuck? What do I do? My
whole plan fell apart. Then it's gonna take them a
week to call each other on the phone, be like Hey, Bob,
did you fucking I heard what you said on CNBC.
Don't worry about it. I thought you were right. Anyway,
we got to go talk to these actors and write,
Oh you want to go talk to them? All right,
all right, let's make a call, right And that's just

(33:10):
gonna take time. It's just logistics, right, uh, And then
they have to come back to the table if to negotiate.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
I saw that they're already mumbling about moving some of
these giant ten poles, Like you know, there's some big.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
There's a bunch of things have changed.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
My show is listen, man, my show isn't coming on,
isn't on the fall lineup anymore because of what's going
on right now.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, you know, like, well, they wouldn't want to launch
your show without you promoting it. I mean, you understand why.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
That I completely understand.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
And they all these I just went to the movies
and saw all these trailers for big ass movies and
they're all supposed to be rolling out the rest of
this year, and they're not gonna want those big ass
movies coming out without the stars on the red carpet
and talk shows.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
And then look past that, look at the pipeline, right.
The main thing we're affecting is the future pipeline. So
if you you're Ted Sarandos, right, you don't get any
more Stranger Things until this, until the strike is settled.
Like they don't have any in the can. There's no
new season to release. Stranger Things is the super Bowl
in Netflix, that's when they get all their subscribers every year, right,

(34:14):
And so when the writer's strike was happening, he was like,
all right, I just wait a couple months. I'll get
my new Stranger Things around August. That's when they'll start
working on it. Now that the actors are on strike
as well. That he has no idea when he's going
to get it, right, He it's a question mark on
his schedule and he cannot last that long without filling
in that question mark because he knows he needs that
because he's got those quarterly earnings calls coming up in

(34:36):
a couple months.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
And of all those streamers have their Stranger.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Things exactly right. I mean Apple has Severance that was
shut down, you know, every one of them has that right, uh.
And not to mention movies. And by the way, half
of these companies still have fall broadcast schedules, as you said,
Donald right, like you know him not anymore exactly. They're
trying they're trying to replace it with reality shows. I mean,

(35:02):
some people will watch those. Some of those reality shows
are covered by a sag after I think, and therefore
still might have to go off the air. Like you know,
they're scrambling and they have you know, literally they're talking
to like Tide Detergents and Tiede is like, we're pulling
our commercial because you guys don't have new Abbt Elementary.
They're running reruns of Abbot Elementary in primetime instead of
new episodes, the biggest show, you know, one of the

(35:22):
biggest shows on broadcast.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
So so these companies, the hurt is starting for them immediately, right,
But for us on the picket line, the hurt is real.
But it's hurt we've already been experiencing because go talk
to any of those actors. They said, i'ven't been able
to make a living for three years because you know,
I got a job, it didn't pay. I don't get
residuals anymore. So they're not thinking, oh god, I'm missing
out by so much, but being on strike, we're all

(35:46):
out there thinking if we don't do this right now,
then we're never going to have careers again. And so
we're gonna be out there as long as it takes,
and it's just gonna take. How long How long does
it take for them to realize that for the CEOs
to realize that we support you guys obviously because we
are actors. I'm not yeah, show where.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
We supposed to kick at him off? Yeah, we have
more I'm not kicking him off.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
We're gonna dude, I'm not kicking him off.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
Well, you said you sounded like you were summing up,
and I was like, don't fucking sum up.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I'm not fucking summing up. He just made a big
He just made a big fucking statement.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Okay, just don't sum up because we have more questions.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
I'm not summing fucking We're just gonna go to break.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
We need to cool off. We're gonna go break. And
when we come back from break, not only is Donald
not gonna sum up, but we are going to ask
Adam about the age.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
You support the writers.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Okay, thank you for everyone's ears.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
I'm an actor too, by the way, but well, I
mean I can't look at him look at his face.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Donald, he's an actor.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
I already told you you don't put you.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Don't put that face behind a commodore, you know, typewriter.
You gotta see that face. We'll be right back, and
we don't ask Adam about AI. Donald'll be right back.
What you're trying to get into one day or show?

(36:59):
What's your trying to news?

Speaker 3 (37:01):
So we want to thank Adam for being on the show.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Mother, I will fucking kill you. All right, we're back, Adam.
I wanted to ask you about the AI component of
all this, because we spent the first part talking about residuals.
I think our audience probably grasps what the fight is
there for the labor unions. Now, the second part of
this is this explosion of this AI universe. I went

(37:25):
to the Ted Talks this year, and as you can imagine,
ninety five percent of what was talked about was AI
in every aspect of human life. And I saw many
examples of how it's going to affect the entertainment industry.
This weekend, Bill Lawrence's teenage son played me an AI

(37:46):
song that was He told me that this musician producer
had put in three huge artists whose voices can be
completely perfectly simulated. He'd put in all this data of
ten different songs he liked, and he sung the parts himself,
but then the AI took over with the famous voices

(38:07):
and he played me this song. It was a really
really hooky pop song sung by three stars I wasn't
familiar with, but I'm sure young people are. And it
was spooky because it was good. And so obviously that's
going to affect our entire industry, and that is something
that the guilds are trying to get a hold on

(38:27):
before it gets out of control. So can you talk
can you speak to that a little bit?

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Sure? So, look, I want to be clear about one thing.
I'm a bit of a contrarian on AI, and so
the first point I want to make is that AI
is a marketing term that these companies made up to
you know, bundle together a bunch of like largely unrelated
technologies and to make them seem like science fiction, make
them seem really powerful and scary. Right, They're actually quite

(38:54):
limited in what they can do. The problem is the
companies that employ us intend to use this limited technology
in order to put actors out of work, put writers
out of work, and you know, we can't let them
do that. So it's less about the technology and more
what they're trying to do. So you know, for actors,
there's a real threat here of their likenesses being reproduced

(39:15):
without their consent. Now, by the way, they had the
power to do this like two or three years ago,
if you saw the Star Wars previous Star Wars movies,
they're already doing this right with with actors. The buzzword
AI hadn't come up yet. AI is just the crypto
blockchain metaverse of twenty twenty three.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
You go see them splash, you could see that shit.
It's too freaking right exactly.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
It's just a new form of VFX right of CGI.
We've had that for a long time, but it is
something that has gotten good enough that they can really
use it to harm actors. So a real example of
this that has actually happened is that sag after voice
actors who do audiobook narration. Apple took voice prints of
their voices without their consent, without paying them and had

(40:00):
them narrating audiobooks that they had never read like that
without paying them. And when they discovered this, they were horrified,
And that was really the canary in the coal mine
for sag After it. Right, And by the way, that's
not like a terrible use of the technology if the
person is paid, because hey, maybe there's an audiobook that
not that many people want to listen to, but you can,
you know, if you can do.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
It automatically or shit, maybe you don't want to do
all that work, and they're freaking gonna pay you that
one time because you got the.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Fixed and it'll be a worse it'll be a worse
audiobook because it won't have Donald's performance giving his you know,
wonderful line reading to every single line. But hey, if
I just want to you know ingest an audiobook quickly
that that wasn't you know, popular enough to be done professionally,
then maybe that's not bad, right, But the art has
to be done with the compensation and consent of the artist, agree.

(40:47):
And uh so that's what sag After is fighting for.
Uh you know, one of the one of the company
proposals that they literally they proposed in the room was
that background actors, the folks who are in the background
of scene, which, by the way, you guys work with
background actors, they're professionals, right, These are like I I.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
These are the real These are the real people who
are trying to make a living as actors in Hollywood.
Everyone else, everyone else is everyone else is playing the gamble,
is gambling. Background actors are doing a nine to five
for real, for real. They're going to work every day
trying to get that money because that's what's paying.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, and not nine to five, but yes, but you know,
you know, you know, yeah, that's more like nine to twelve.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
But yeah, right, well it depends, you know. And they
bring their own wardrobe, you know. And by the way,
they're professionals. They know how to behave on a set,
they know how to take instruction from the ad, they
know how to hit their marks, you know, like they
are professional actors. So the companies proposed that these actors
would be paid a day or half a day's wages,

(41:51):
have their likenesses scanned into a computer, and then the
company would own their likeness and be able to reproduce
it in perpetuity without paying them again, long after they're dead.
And that is so first of all offensive with the
professionalism those actors. It would also end the job of
background acting, and it would create worse content because do
you really want to see CGI people walking around in

(42:13):
the back of every scene because the company felt like
save in a couple hundred bucks a person.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah, well, it's interesting, is I noticed this. I watched
remember watching a House of Dragons behind the scenes thing.
I believe it was for the There was a big
joust in the last season and it was incredibly done,
and I was curious as of filmmaker how it was achieved.
And one of the things I noticed is that they
were showing how they built this massive crowd, and they
were showing how they would scan the background people sometimes

(42:41):
in groups of three cheering, and then they'd scan them
in groups of four booing. And then they showed how
they multiply multiplied, multiply multiply modes to create a realistic
giant crowd, which I thought was interesting, but I never
thought that I never looked at it from the point
of view, is that House of Dragons show could then

(43:02):
keep all of these people in their database and next
time they needed a crowd, just reuse all of those
faces and likenesses without without paying them.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Next year they're on uh, next year they're on the
Sex in the City reboot, right, and they were like,
hold on a second, well only got paid for house dragons.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
They'd be in house of dragon's clothing. But that would
be amazing.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
I mean, yeah, I mean we joke around, but that's
some fucked up shit. Man, that's livelihoods right there. And
I know yeah, and I have a lot of friends
that do background. I've started in background. I think most
actors started in background. And that shit paid the bills. Man,
that shit, really, you know what I mean? That was
how that was? That was you want to talk about residuals,
you know what really paid the bills?

Speaker 3 (43:41):
First?

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Background work. That's how that's how I got my SAG card.
That's how I got so many things, you know what
I mean. And now you're going to take the ability
to freaking work away from so many people who don't
get the opportunity to make it to the level of
fucking Will Smith, who don't make it to the level
of Tom Crue but still have a dream of being
an actor.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
And you want to take that away.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Now to whatever happened to Will Smith, something changed in
his career. Sorry, I don't know too soon.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
Well, now, well, now here's how this applies to you guys.
By the way, is that for for working actors such
as yourselves. Well, what if they use that same technology,
and you know, long after you've shot your scene, they say, actually,
I don't like how Donald read that line. Let's have
him say something else, you know, Let's have him. Let's
have him. Uh, that's bullshit, right.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
To But I don't know if you remember that there
was a movie about Adam. I don't even know this
if you know this story or any of you guys,
but there was a movie about two women stuck on
the top of a of a wind turbine or something.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Oh yes, I saw the trailer for this. I forget
the name of it, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Okay, so that's the premise, right, it's genius. It's just
it's a it's a thriller. But the premise is just.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
That these two get up on the wind turbine.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
I didn't watch the movie.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
But they like climbed the ladder and then a ladder
fell off and then they're like, oh shit, how do
we get down?

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Well, what's the name of that movie? I'm looking at it.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
It's called It's I think the name of the movie
is It's all our fault, all.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Right, So anyway, and it's all our fault. They apparently
the two gals they were doing lots of improv because
they were playing terrified and as you would you you'd be,
You're not going to just stick to the script, you'd be.
And apparently they were cursing left and right as they
as they riffed, and and when they when the people
cut this movie together, it was actually testing really well,

(45:25):
and they were very pleased with their product, and they
thought it was gonna do. What the problem was, they
did not want an r movie, and these two women
were cursing left and right, and so they for the
first time, I believe they were the first company to
do this. They hired a company that could digitally change
all of the lips. It's called Fall Thank you Joel,

(45:46):
and they every time they cursed, they changed their lips
to a non curse yep. And this you can you
can YouTube this because I saw a video on it,
and the technology was so brilliant and perfect that they
went on to say that this will be what they'll
be using in the future instead of subtitles, because they'll
be able to change every actor's lips and have them

(46:08):
speak the native tongue of whatever country the movie is playing.
In and Okay, so that's just that's just, you know,
the first example incarnation of this. But what Adam's saying
is that I, as a filmmaker, can go I don't
love Donald's reading of that. Can you AI help me
make him do it angrier and a bit and change

(46:28):
it so his line is like, not today, motherfucker? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (46:33):
And then and then Donald, you're watching that going I
would never swear like that, And now my daughters are
going to see this and aren't I And don't I
look awful?

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (46:42):
Or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
I don't like the idea of putting stuff into my
mouth that I didn't agree to that.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
I know that's the first time you've ever said that, Donald, I.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Well, because that I've read every time. I've agreed every time,
don't I.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Know, in front of Adam, you don't want to act
like you don't like to put things in your mouth.
But I'm sorry, Joelle as best behavior in front of you,
I'm sorry. You know.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
The reason I think you feel that way is it's
not about compensation. It's about your dignity and your professionalism
in your work, and of course.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
What you do if the performance, if they change your
performance to something. Even when you see when as an actor,
when you see some of the way something's cut, you go,
oh my god, they cut out the pause without the pause.
I suck that that performance is so bad without the
actor taking in that pause and receiving that information, that's
just that's just editing. Now, imagine you see a performance
you're like, I never fucking said that. That's horrible. Yeah,

(47:34):
that's so cringe.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
And you know that that removes you as an artist, right,
That removes your artists free. It makes you a puppet
for them. And I think that's a really fundamental, you know,
abridgment of our of our dignity as performers. You know that,
Like you hired me because I fucking know what I'm
doing and this is how I'm good. You've you've both
had those moments on that set where you're like, you

(47:56):
know what I'm not doing that. You know, the director
says would you do this, and you're like, actually, I'm
not going to do it, yeah, because I don't. I
don't want to be on camera doing this. I'm not
going to give you the take use it, Yep, I'm
not going to give it to you. I'm using my
judgment as a human on your set who knows best
to say as an artist, I'm not doing this, and
they want to take away that ability from us, and
and that's uh, that's repugnant. Now, as writers, there's a

(48:20):
whole other set of issues where you know, the people
are worried about them using chat GPT to output scripts.
And the point that I like to draw here is
that like chat GPT or technologies like it cannot do
the work of a writer, because being a writer is
a lot more than outputting a script. Being a writer
is uh talking to the network and you know, taking

(48:42):
their notes, is talking to the director. So if it's
his vision, it's talking to the actors to make sure
that they like the lines and working on it with them.
It's going to set to say, oh, hold on a second,
the way Donald said that line, it actually doesn't doesn't
mean what we thought it meant when we wrote it.
If he uses that inflection, but we like the inflection,
let's adjust the line a little bit or whatever it is, right,
then it means going to the edit and saying, hold
on a second, this it's for five minutes too long.

(49:04):
What scene can we cut uh? You know, without uh,
without while having it still makes sense. Oh, let's write
a little line of ADR for Donald to say, you'll
come in and he'll record that, and that'll make everything
make sense. That's the work of a writer, right. What
we're worried about is the company saying, well, hold on
a second, chat GPT wrote a script, would you just, Adam,

(49:25):
punch it up, talk to the director, talk to the actor,
go to set, go to post, and do all that work.
Oh you're not the writer, though, You're just a producer
who's being paid less than you ever were. And I'm
looking at that going, no, I'm I'm the writer, right.
You just output me some garbage and I made it good.
But you're but you're using this shitty technology as an
excuse to undermine my work. And that's what we're not

(49:47):
going to allow.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Yeah, just because you're a ghostwriter don't mean you didn't
write that shit. That's probely Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Let's take a break.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
We'll be right back after these fine words you now, Adam.
The most urgent concern to my limited brain is that
writers will be forced to begin using a smaller room
of people and saying have chat GBT bang out an

(50:19):
outline because whether it's bad or not. I mean, we
fucked with it on this podcast just as to be funny,
saying having it write scrub scenes. Now they're not good,
but it's year one of this. And also they do
at least follow what we told them. They do bang
out a very bad version of a scene with the instructions.
So to me, the beginning of the concern, especially as

(50:42):
this thing is growing and growing and growing in who
knows what it will be in two three years, that
it will be able to spit out a bad but
confident version of the scene you told it to write
that they can then be punched up so the mandate
will be Adam, you don't need a writer's room of
twelve people, need a writer's room of three people.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
I feel like before we before there's a sidebar to
this too. I think there's it's very dangerous because kids
are kids are using this ship also for their lessons
in school.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
For like, it's a cheat, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Yeah, And it's a it's it's a big time cheat.
And within cheating comes I mean, will become a soulless,
fucking population.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
If we can that's a big sidebar. Let him answer
my question first, before we get to Soula's population.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
I love this double I have a minor sidebar.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Do you think we're going to become a soulless population? Uh?

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Donald the answers yes. But to zax question, so, look,
my my opinion is that, well, first of all, they're
already doing that. They're already shrinking the writer's room. In fact,
one of the main Writers Guild's proposals is just to
preserve the writer's room, says say, there must be one,
because the companies have gone from you know, having a
writer's room of you know, eight to twelve people, as

(52:06):
you say, to saying, well now do it with three,
Now do it with two now. And what they're literally
now paying showrunners to do, they're offering them bonuses to
not have a writer's room at all and just write
the whole season themselves. Maybe they farm out one or
two scripts freelance, which you for which you're paid a
small percentage of what you're made for being on staff.
And if we allow that to happen in a couple
of years, that's gonna be all TV writing. If you

(52:27):
sell a show, they're gonna be like, all right, Zach, right,
the whole thing yourself. You have fifteen grand you can
use to you know, farm out freelance scripts if you want.
That's already their plan, and it's because our contract allows
that to happen. And it's just the norms of how
TV has been produced for the past fifty years that
have protected us. But the companies have shown they want
to break those norms, and so now we need to
get the existence of the writer's room put into our contract.

(52:49):
But the issue that you raised though, of chat GPT
being used as an excuse to that even further, I
think is a real one. I just want to really
highlight I think it's a lie because I don't think
that it is possible for one of these large language
models to output anything that helps, like save any labor

(53:09):
as a writer, you know, because the I think any
writer knows the first draft is always fucking garbage. That's
not the hard part. The hard part is every other
piece of it. If I'm taking a if it's my
choice as a writer to start with some chat GPT
output and punch it up myself, sure I can take
that choice. I don't think I'm saving myself any fucking

(53:30):
time by doing that, because the hard part is the
originality that I add, you know, Like, look, I'll just
talk about it as a comedy writer. Okay, As a
comedy writer, you have to write so many jokes, right,
joke after joke after joke, and every joke you write
has to be on some level a new joke. If
you're telling a joke people have heard before, they don't laugh, right,
People want a new joke every time. How do you

(53:52):
write a new joke. You think about the specifics of
the situation. You think about who your audience is. You think,
you figure out here's what they think of the situation,
Here's what will strike them as fun. Okay, if I'm
writing late Night, Ted Cruz did something in the news, Okay,
what did he do? What does the audience think of
Ted Cruz? What does this remind them of in their
own lives? That's going to be a surprising thing. I
can compare it to right the way Trevor Noah's jokes

(54:15):
would always be like this is like when your mom
would be blah blah blah blah blah, and you'd, like,
you know, do some dating reference or something like that. Right,
that is a magic trick every time. It is one
of the most complex cultural things to have to do
is to figure out how to write a new joke
that'll make people laugh. And Chad GPT will never be
able to do it. So it'll always be an immense
amount of work on a human writer to write a

(54:37):
joke that is going to bring delight to people in
the way that we do.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
I hear you, man, I just hope that you know.
I just think of year one of the cell phone
compared to what we now have in our pockets, and
I think of what Chad GBT could become in five
ten years.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Think of what AI can become in five ten, fifteen
years if weaponize. I mean, this is like it's already
being weaponized against actors and writers.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
And Daniel's laughing because you just steered it to military reach.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
It absolutely is. But here's just what I'd like. Here's
the point I'd like to make, is that the iPhone
was built on pre existing technology. Right. It was not
like some new It wasn't like they invented the wheel
or they invented cold fusion or something. Right. It was
a business decision to put these things together this way.
And so what we should be afraid of is not

(55:28):
artificial intelligence technology run amuck. It's the business practices of
these companies using the technology to hurt us and hurt
other people. It's not if you accept too much this
technological argument, you can be tricked into thinking, oh, we
should just accept whatever they say because the technology is
coming now. People are choosing to make these decisions, and
we can force them to choose otherwise by using our

(55:50):
collective power.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Yeah. Well, that's the power of the union. That's the
whole point of being in this union that we pay
lots of money and doing.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Sounds like you're trying to wrap up. Zech I'm just
gonna put it out there. Sounds I could try to
wrap up.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Well, we do have to let Adam go.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
I'm gonna be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
Well, I'm not wrapping up. I'm segueing into the point
where my tone suggests that we don't want to take
up too much of Adam's time.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
I mean, that sounds a bit like a wrap up,
but no, my tone.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
My tone is we can continue talking, but Adam probably
has lots of important things to do. That's my tone. Wait,
I want to ask Joel. Joel gave us some good questions,
and I want to make sure, I hit some of them,
Please do what's surprising? What has surprised you most during
this experience. You've been on strike now for thirteen weeks.
What is there things that have happened that have made

(56:37):
you go I was not expecting that.

Speaker 3 (56:40):
I mean, sag after joining the strike was not something
that in my wildest dreams I would have I would
have thought was happening as a sag after. Remember, if
you had asked me, you know, six months ago, I'd say,
no way, is it ever going to happen. And the
leadership of our union really stepped up in order to
call the strike to show our power. It was amazing
to see to see Fran and Duncan and all that

(57:00):
go ahead.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Yeah, dude, if you would have asked the night before
if SAD going to strike, everybody would be like no, yeah.
And then that paper came through.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
Oh my yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
I'm surprised that the Director's Guilds of America, which I'm
a part of as well, didn't strike.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
I was not surprised that by that, because that's their strategy.
That is the strategy that they've historically used as a union.
And I, you know, as a guy who thinks a
lot about labor. It's it's not the strategy that I
think gets the biggest gains for members. I think you
get the biggest gains when you are willing to take
a strike vote and you know, threaten to go on
strike if necessary, and then be willing to pull the
trigger if it comes to that. But you know that's

(57:43):
uh that union operates a different way. The Teamsters didn't strike, right,
They didn't strike. The Teamsters just announced a tentative deal
with UPS today, if that might be what you're talking about.
They were about, I mean, three hundred and fifty thousand
Teamsters were about to go on strike against U P. Yes,
and they just announced today that they got the biggest
deal in their history. And the reason they got such

(58:04):
a big deal is because they brought a credible threat
of going on strike. They say, either you give us
what we want or we're fucking striking, and UPS blinked
and gave it to them. And that's what the writer's
gill does in a good year, right, And that's what
I'm really happy that sag After brought that same energy
and said we're going to strike, and the you know,
try us, and the companies tried them and that's what happened.
I mean, every day in the strike, there's been new surprises,

(58:25):
new pieces of support, people support coming in from all angles.
The public support has been enormous, The support and the
press has been enormous, like we're we're gonna win, We're
we're unstoppable because everything has been trending in our favor
every day, and that's not something I expected when we started.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
All Right, here's another good Joell question. How can people
outside of Los Angeles? I think she means also outside
of the entertainment industry, because you know, we have people
in Atlanta and New York everywhere. Joell, come on, how
can people outside of the entertainment industry show their support
for both unions?

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Yeah, this is a great question, and actually, Zach's it
gives me an opportunity to answer a question you asked
earlier in terms of support for other crew members, because
there's a lot of folks who are affected by the
strike who are not actors and not writers. Right, there's
crew members, there's pas, and there's you know, folks who
cater you know, film shoots and et cetera. They're all
suffering because of the strike, and so we raise money

(59:23):
for a fund called the Entertainment Community Fund. It's a
wonderful fund that's existed in LA in New York for
one hundred and forty years. Anybody in the country who
works in the entertainment industry who is on hard times
having trouble paying rant to their medical bills can apply
to it for cash assistance, and we are raising money
for that fund. We've raised over three million dollars so far.
But if you would like to contribute, your money will

(59:44):
go directly to an affected entertainment industry worker.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
I believe the link is Entertainmentcommunity dot org.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
Correct. Isn't there a screen actors?

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Gil found the Yes, I played golf for it every
year and it's it's the same same type of situation,
is it Yep?

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Yep. The bag After Foundation, the sag After Foundation you
can donate to as well. It's a very similar fund
and that money will go to Google go to support
actors specifically.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Yeah, and the Rock I heard just gave a bunch
of money to one of those funds.

Speaker 4 (01:00:14):
No or something, Yeah, seven figures we're hearing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
We don't have an exact.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
I was generous of him. Donald, don't try and get
that money to fix up your patio because I know
you're working on your patty.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
I'm trying to get that rock money, motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Listen man, listen man, don't wrap up all right, Listen now,
Daniel wants just to clarify, because Daniel's very wise that
a deal has been reached for UPS but still needs
to be approved by the majority of the union.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
Yeah, so for the chancers, yeah mind, but still that's
still progress.

Speaker 7 (01:00:45):
It's definitely, it's definitely progressed. But you know, my understanding
is that a lot of the team sers were holding
out for a hard line of twenty five dollars an hour,
and this current deal is twenty one dollars an hour,
going up to twenty three eventually. So there's a good
chance that a lot of the hardliners might be like
no five or nothing. So we'll see, we'll see that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
And that, by the way, is part of what's so
powerful about a union, because unions are democracies, right, So
when the leader leadership of a union goes and makes
a deal, the membership then gets to vote on it,
and if the membership doesn't like the deal, they will
vote no and you know, reject the deal. Then the
leadership has to go back to the table. And so
that's why, you know, our leadership of our two unions

(01:01:24):
can't just go and cut our legs out from under
us like it. You know, it depends on what the
workers actually need. It's one of the things that makes
unions so powerful. Let's take a break.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
We'll be right back after these fine words. Are you
in the quote unquote room where it happens for the
WGA when this? Yeah, and how many of you are
in are in the room? Roughly?

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
I believe we've got seventeen or eighteen negotiating committee members
from the Writers Guild West and East, and there's also
our staff members as well, of which.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
And then how many do they have? How many of
the am TPS.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
AMPTP they have? Uh, there's about a half dozen lawyers
just from the AMPTP and then lawyers also from you know, Netflix, Disney, Amazon, Right,
so it's a big room room together.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Yeah, he do people ever stand up? You can't handle
the truth.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
So look, the actual negotiating room is very formal. Right.
We go in and wee present our proposals, our proposal
one is this a proposal? Two is that? And then
they say thank you, and then we leave the room,
and then we go back in later and they respond
to the proposals. Our response to proposal one is rejected.
Our responsive proposal two is rejected, you know, and very mutic.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
For a bunch of for a bunch of dramatic people,
that's not very dramatic.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
About it's lawyers.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
I bet you in the sag. How about I bet
you in the sague. Then Nanny's like, fuck you motherfuckers.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
I think there was a little bit more of that. Yeah,
I think there was all that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
One doesn't around, you know, friends on a desk, beyond people.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
But you know what, what happens in that room is
kind of secondary because those people in that negotiating room
are the no machine. The only reason they're in there.
Their job is to say no over and over and
over again, and they're hired by the CEOs who are
not in the room. Our job is to put pressure
on the CEOs, and we do that by being on
the picket line. Right. But here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Is there ever a chance that you know you're going
to see any of the CEOs or anything like that?

Speaker 5 (01:03:29):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's the point.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
That's the point is when when do you start running
up on people, like when does that happen?

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
When does on site become a situation? And I think
it starts happening very soon, right, because the whole point is,
I don't want to get too deep into the labor
weeds for your audience. But the AMPTP is an outsourcing organization, right,
Ted Sarandos, Babeiger, all of them. They hire this company
called the AMPTP to do their labor negotiations for them
and to say no for them, so they don't ever

(01:03:58):
have to think about it. They just get to load
around in their yachts, be on the top story of
their buildings, right while someone else handles it. And our
entire goal is to get them off the bench, is
to make them get involved by pressing the issue until
it's literally such a fucking problem for Ted Sorrandos he
has to call Bob Iger then go what are we
going to do? And then they have to call us, right,
And that's what is about to happen, because again, this

(01:04:22):
strike currently is unprecedented. Uh, the AMPTP failed in its
in its you know, mission to stop a dual strike,
and they've lost all credibility. And now those CEOs have
to get involved. So so this is literally going to
end when you know, in a conversation with that Ted
Sorrandos and Iiger and and you know, Sherry Redstone and

(01:04:42):
all of them are involved in.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Don't isn't there an algorithm of sorts where there's CFOs
and money people are going listen or we can afford
and prepare to recoup in these creative ways this amount
of money. But once it goes beyond that, we're in.
You know, our doc is going to be effected. I mean,
aren't they running all those kind of numbers and going,
all right, we can let them suffer till November? You know,

(01:05:06):
I mean, I'm just pulling that out of my ass.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
But oh, they look they cannot let this go on
all right, like like they did have that plan with
the Writer's Guild. They're playing with the reskuils always let's
hold them off three months before we even talk to them,
sag after again, striking is not something they predicted. And
I don't believe they have the ability to weather it
at all. Now. They always they all will always will
do those projections, you know, and and those are projections

(01:05:31):
that are designed to tell you no right, what we
can't afford it for X, Y and Z reason. But
all that matters is what are we willing to work
with and without? Right? All all that matters is, UH,
what are writers and actors willing to countenance? You know what?

Speaker 4 (01:05:48):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
Are we willing to work for less than this? Uh?
And if the answer is no, then you know we're
going to get what we want because you know, all
that matters at the end of the day is us
using power and saying, look, if you don't give us
what we want, we're not fucking going back to work. Right,
Unless these companies want to stop making American film and
television entirely, they're gonna have to bargain with us and

(01:06:10):
make a deal that we can accept. And that's going
to be the endgame. No matter what, it's going to
happen sooner rather than later. But you know that's that
That is.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
The last thing I want, Adam, Thank you so much.
The last one to ask you was I'm hearing that
certain indie movies are being getting a waiver because they
are independent of all of these conglomerates and they are
somehow giving SAG what they're asking for in the contract.

(01:06:40):
Can you explain that how how indies are getting waivers?
Do you understand?

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
Sure? So I only know about this what I've read
in the trades because I'm not part of this decision
making process and SAG, but I can explain it a
little bit that for companies that they feel are not
affiliated with the AMPTP, they are signing them to an
interim agreement which says we will will agree to whatever
your final agreement is with the AMPTP, and they're continuing

(01:07:04):
to work. SAG after his view seems to be that
this will put more pressure on the majors because these
other you know, independent companies, so you know, so called
independent companies are making you know, films outside of the system,
and it's going to encourage you know, the big the
big players like Universal and Pairamount to come back to
the table sooner. Personally, very personally, I don't think that

(01:07:26):
strategy is going to work that well because unfortunately, a
lot of those movies are still going to end up
on Netflix and Apple TV and all these other services.
They're still part of the pipeline that the AMPTP companies
are making, uh, you know, making money off of. So
I don't think it's a great strategy. By the way,
this is something the Writers Guild tried in two thousand

(01:07:46):
and seven and eight, and the reason we're not doing
it this year is because it didn't We feel it
didn't work during the two thousand and seven and eight strike. Yeah,
and so you know, that's that's a disagreement I have. However,
I think that it's ultimately not gonna matter that much
because we're talking about, you know, thirty projects or so,
when the reality is, you know, tens of thousands of

(01:08:06):
product projects are stopped down right now. So there's also
a couple of them that are happening. There was one
for Apple TV called Tehran, which my understanding is like
the real problem there was that it was in a
country where the strike couldn't have been enforced because it
was shooting overseas, and so there was.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
There's there's some shows like House of Dragon. I don't
know why I keep bringing that show up today, but
I am that is not sad. It's a fully English union.
Uh So they're continuing, and I think I know that
it doesn't I know this strike doesn't affect commercials, and
I think animation as well. I think those are separate contracts.

(01:08:42):
If I'm not.

Speaker 4 (01:08:43):
Luckily, the animators are getting together to start their own union,
which is really exciting.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Well, it's about time. I'm gonna be honest with you.
That's something that animators don't have. And animators are shitt
ton for their work. And some of these guys do
hours that you and me and girls. Yeah, that's you
know what I meant. Some of these people, let me
put it that way.

Speaker 3 (01:09:02):
And non binary. There's a lot of non binary animators.
I have met many.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Okay, look, some of these human beings, Okay, we can
all agree there some thank you. Some of these human
beings are working their asses off for hours and hours
and hours and getting paid very very little. You want
to talk about, no, do try making a living as
an animator, dude, It's almost impossible.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
And about these VLX companies that always seem to go
out of business after a giant movie comes out because
they just can't pay their bills.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
And let me correct you a little bit, Joelle, they
actually do have a union. There isn't a union called
the Animation Guild, but historically it has been a union
that unfortunately has not been a real fighting union. And
what the people in the animation Guild are doing now
is they are fighting their asses off. They are saying, well,
we want some of this fight for us.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Yeah, if you read some of the stories on how
these people are treated at some of these animation houses, man,
you can find them one line if anybody's interested, Like,
because I'm so into animation, you just just just the
disrespect that these people, that a lot of these people
receive for their for their hard earned work is just
as is just as uh deplorable as what we're seeing

(01:10:13):
going on.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
With SAG and uh yeah and the Writers Guild.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
When I've been up animation, I meant the SAG contract
with animated things, I believe is a different contract.

Speaker 3 (01:10:25):
I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
I'm talking about the actual animators and creators and point.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
And to say they're clarifyed.

Speaker 4 (01:10:32):
Cartoon Network and Warner Brothers animators specifically have gone to
the National Labor Relations Board and asked to form a union.
So they're in the process of trying to move away
from the established union and create one like in House
Network and Warner Brothers got it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
Yeah, So there's a lot of activism happening in animation
that I like, I'm not even all up to speed. Yet.
I mean, there's one of the really cool things about
this strike is that we are showing that we have
power and that we are gonna use that power to
get what we need. And us as writers and actors,
we're lucky because our unions have been around and powerful
for ninety almost one hundred years. But what's happening now

(01:11:09):
is folks from all other parts of the entertainment industry
and other industries around the country are watching what we're
doing and saying, oh, this is something we can do
too if we step up. So I've literally talked to choreographers,
music supervisors, post production workers. These are folks in our
industry who don't have unions, and they are forming unions
and take it, which is much harder. That's the hardest

(01:11:30):
thing to do is start a union from scratch. But
they're doing it because they're seeing, Oh my god, look
at what you can do if you have a union.
And so that's one of my favorite things about what
we're doing right now.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Adam, thank you so much for coming on. Sounds like
I am going to wrap up. We can stay on
for a second in chat, but Adam, thank you so much.
And I'm not allowed to promote it. But I am
intrigued by how articulate you are. And I am going
to watch your show and go back and go do
a deep dive on all your work.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
Thank you so much. And just if I can do
a little plug, I am a touring stand up comedian.
Would is one of the few kinds of work I
can do during the strike. Yeah, if you live where
are you gonna be? Do you live in Buffalo, Saint Louis, Providence,
Rhode Island, come see me Adam connover dot net for
tickets and tour dates.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
I go see Adam guys because he's uh, he's clever,
he's smart. Way do you get your eyes on him?
And he's a looker.

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
He is a looker.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Yeah, all right, Adam, thank you, thank you so much.
But we really appreciate this.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Thank you, thank you, pleasure being here, thank.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Me, thank you, Thanks Adam, Joel, great job of producing,
Joel getting Adam as a guest, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
I was very excited.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
He really came through.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Fabulous.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
We needed it, we needed yeah, Donald's right, it was perfect.
We needed someone who knew their ship like that, and
you came through.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
We also needed it because I know our listeners out
there are like, well, what the fuck is going on
with fake doctors right now?

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
What are they doing right right? So we are going
to not talk about scrubs for a while until the
strike is over, but we're gonna talk about other interesting things.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
Donald got a great guest lined up for next We have.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
A really good guest for next week.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
Did you did Let's just say Tom Cruise.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
It's not Tom Cruise, but we could. We could build
to that. Listen, we are going to build an empire, Donald,
and we're going to start.

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
Can I be the Emperor?

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Yes, you can be.

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
I'm willing to be the Lord Vader.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
I don't Oh, I see it all goes back to
Star Wars because you can be. You can be the Emperor.
Is the Emperor higher.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
Than Lord Vader? Yes? Than everyone?

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
Emperor is the highest. What's that guy who's not the Emperor?
But he he was in the last big Star Wars
movie and he was like a hologram and he feels
like the Emperor.

Speaker 3 (01:13:45):
Snoke Snoop snook. No, you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
Snooky Snoky Snokey. She was he was on Jersey Shore
to Snokey was snow higher than the Emperor.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
No, No was created by the improve.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
Oh, I want to be Snoke. You can be the
Okay I created Snoke is snow higher than Vader.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
No.

Speaker 4 (01:14:11):
By the time Snoke comes out.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
I need a family tree, Joelle.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Can you you know you need to be You could
be you could be freaking tarkt Grandma Tarkan.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
That don't give me a really Donald and Casey gave
me a really nice belated birthday present.

Speaker 5 (01:14:28):
What you get?

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Well, they know that I really love land Rover Defenders.
I'm a big fan of them, especially the old D nineties,
and they got me a D land Rover Defender D
ninety Lego set. Guess what I'm going to be doing
whilst I strike?

Speaker 5 (01:14:49):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:14:49):
Hell yeah, hell yeah, I love some Legos.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Listen, Donald, I love you, I love you. You know
what I've been watching? I listen. I never get into
these reality shows. Okay, ever, my whole life, I never
watched reality shows. But someone gave me a taste of
the crack, and now I can't. I can't stop watching
No Below Deck Mediterrane. Well, he's on that people. Donald,

(01:15:17):
they fight, they all hook up, some of them have yachts.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
I'm still watching dance moms. I didn't realize that that
they were that many seasons.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
Well, I'm looking at below Deck. I'm looking at below Deck,
which is my crack problem, my strike crack problem. And
there's so many seasons, and I'm like, I gotta get
off of this. But look how many seasons there are?

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
These shows? Are they We're allowed to watch this, aren't we.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
These people are not sacked, but some of them do have.
These people do have yachts, some of them.

Speaker 4 (01:15:51):
The bowl is not to promote anything a studio is
currently promoting.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
We're okay with Below Deck, Joel.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
We're not okay with dance Moms. I'll talk to you, guys.
It's your idea.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
I will take that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
I'm not fucking around friend Dresser.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
If fran Dresser calls me about talking about below Deck, med,
it's my fault.

Speaker 3 (01:16:13):
All right, okay, all right, guys.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
We love you, We love you listeners. Thank you for
tuning in. We hope you were educational. That's where we're
trying to be.

Speaker 6 (01:16:21):
And five six, seven, eight stories I'm not sure. We
made about a bunch of talks and nurses and.

Speaker 4 (01:16:31):
I said, here's.

Speaker 6 (01:16:32):
A story natural, so YadA around you here yeada around here.

Speaker 5 (01:16:41):
Spell me, no M

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Hosts And Creators

Donald Faison

Zach Braff

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