A Conversation with Seaspiracy Director Ali Tabriz

On this week's episode, Zach and Donald discuss the documentary Seaspiracy with the director Ali Tabriz.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So, look, man, my kid had a soccer game today
and the coach ran up on Casey and I after
the game and was like, you know, what's going on
with Rocco. He's so aggressive at practice and stuff like that,
but then when he's playing these games, he's so nice
to these other kids. And that was a conversation that
Rocko and I had in the car on the way

(00:21):
home one. You know, it was like, dude, you can
be aggressive on the field. I get it that you're
trying to, you know, not hurt anybody's feelings, but these
kids are running all over you guys because you kids
are being so nice and everything, trying not to bump
anybody or whatever it is. And so the coach asked

(00:42):
us to talk to Rocko about his leadership skills, which
is crazy because he's only seven years old. But wait,
the problem the coach is basically saying, he's like rough
and humble at practice, but when he's playing another team,
he's too nice. Yeah, like they get kind of the
kids get kind of soft and afraid. But granted, this
is their first season ever, this is Rocco's first year.
He's only played playing soccer for six months. You know,

(01:05):
what I mean. And he's been getting by on his athleticism,
and now his athleticism, you know, isn't enough. He needs
to be aggressive. Is he good? He's all right, you know,
he's you know, what's his best sport? He'd say it's
he'd say it's basketball. But you know, I'll destroy him.

(01:26):
There's such the father athletic father. You're you're actually like
Turk when he when he when he does the fake
arm wrestle with with Carla. There's no way I can
let this kid beat me until he can actually beat me.
You don't know how that is that for parents that
are into sports. Is that a technique like don't let

(01:47):
them win? Yeah, because they think they're good. They're good,
and they think they're too good if you let them
beat you, you know what I mean? Like, so I
let Rocco beat me a couple of times in basketball.
He started walking around the house like I'm the best
basketball telling people I'm the best basketball player in this house.
And I was like, wait, hold on one second. Kid,

(02:08):
he really believe that. He's like, yeah, I'm better than you.
And I was like, all right, let's go outside and
let me show you how it really is. Your hi.
I took him outside and didn't let him score one basket, right,
and I didn't. This is this is continued for the
last about two weeks. And yesterday we're outside and we're

(02:29):
playing basketball and this little fucker pump fakes and then
goes under and scores a basket on me. I was sold. Like,
part of me, I'm proud, I'm like, Okay, now he's
starting to understand what's going on. But the other part
was like, this little motherfucker scored on me. Oh, you
know what I mean, he's getting good. No, fuck that man,

(02:52):
he can't be he can't listen. The truth of the
matter is, until he can beat me, he cannot beat me.
You know what I'm saying reminds me of my dog
trainer who said, don't ever let the dog win in
the tug of war with the toy. Why would the
trainers say that to you? Do you think you don't
want the dog to think they have more power than you,

(03:13):
Like you're the you're the leader of the pack, and
you're the strongest you know, in the dog's mind. I'm
assuming that's the psychology behind it, right, so, and and
they might get too aggressive if they think they can
win if they try hard. You know, I don't. I
don't know, but I just remember the trainers saying, play
tug of war, you want all you want, but they
can never win. Remind me that same thing, same thing here.

(03:33):
He can get as the only way he's going to
get better is if he has to compete against me.
And that's what the coach was saying, like he's these
guys got wasted by these kids. And in the beginning
Rock was like, we're about to beat these guys. And
it was like and once the game started, they were
pushing them around and you know, tripping them and it's

(03:55):
a soccer and all of these they're getting upset. The
where the kids was Rocco like upset when they no.
He was just taking it like it was a game.
And the coach at the end of the game had
to tell like, we're paying a lot of money. It's
club soccer, so we're paying a lot of money for this,
you know what I mean. And if the kids aren't
going to get better, then we got to take them
out of soccer. This is just how it is. Get
better or we need that money. It's it's that's real talk.

(04:16):
That's how it is. Man, You guys lost three games
in a row. We're gonna take that money and go
to Hawaii. It's better well spent in Hawaii watching my
kid get his ass kicked over and over again. It's
a lot of pressure though. Well you know that he
wants a new animation table. Yeah, he wanted to play soccer.

(04:38):
That's how it goes. But speaking of traveling all of
that stuff, freaking we are loving this. Two soon got
two son from the good people in Hunday. How's it going?
They hooked it up? Okay, So first of all, they've
tricked it out, like so it's like to the max.
I know hunda used to be like you know, thought

(04:59):
of as as not a luxury brand. But you rolled
up in that car. It's pretty sick, dude. Let me
tell you something right now with the features. First of all,
I turn on the car and it's it hums. My
wife was like, I could hear you coming up the block.
The car's humming, and it's not it's a hum like
a right, so it's kind of quiet. But for some

(05:22):
reason my wife could hear it and it's a hybrid,
right like, because I know you were you were you
were interested in getting off of full gas cars. Absolutely,
it's a hybrid, you know what I really want though,
you know, uh, and I'm sure they make it. Also
is an electric Tucson as well, you know what I mean, Like,
hybrid is great, but I'm trying to get on that

(05:42):
solar electric. So it's not solar, but you know that's
I'm trying to. I'm trying to. I'm trying to be
as clean on energy as I am with my food nowadays.
So well good, and I think, you know, I do
think it's pretty cool that Hunde's relaunch is all about
safety and UH and going green. Anyway, I turn on

(06:06):
the car and immediately the people, the good people at
Hundai have put on the serious satellite station that is
UH orchestra music. Yeah, and so the cars like d
D D D d D. So the cars are already
in an elite on an elite level. Right, the kids

(06:27):
getting moved classy moved to deliver it with classical playing
going yeah right right, so the hip hop like they
knew me, and they turned on the car. It was
jay Z no no no, no no, right, and so
the kids get in and they're like, holy cow, this
is nice. The cars blue on the outside, but on
the inside it's got like a creamy interior. So right
then in their fire it's leather. It's got a huge screen,

(06:51):
a huge screen to uh, you know, iPad size close
to an iPad side, I'd say, like an iPad man,
but a little bit bigger than that. Like, but the
whole many right, and it displays you know, if you
have a car play, it displays everything that a car
play does. But then you drive the thing. And when

(07:13):
I signal immediately instead of having to look out of
my mirror, the camera on the side view mirror shows
up in my dashboard, so now I can see I
can see whatever is on the side of me when
I do, you know what I mean? Like, look, here's
here's a crazy thing. I don't know why more cars
don't do that. That's really clever. Because I've been driving

(07:35):
a loaner car because my friend fucked up my car.
That's a long, boring story. But driving on the LA
freeways is so crazy because I'm been driving to Chatsworth
to do to do a cheaper by the dozen lately,
and the people are just insane on the freeways. And
now the thing I have the car, the loner car
I have has a little light when that lights up

(07:56):
on the rever mirror, on the side mirrors when someone's
in your blind spot. But you just said that makes
so much more sense with the technology that's going on today.
Why not bring up a camera on the screen in
front of you. That's small, so much smarter. It's crazy.
When I reverse it into parking and everything, there's an
overview shot of my car and it shows me the
front and the back and how close I am. I

(08:17):
have no idea. I'm guessing satellite. It shows me how
close I am to the front, the car in front
of me, and the car behind me. Here's the other
thing that's crazy. Let's say you get distracted while you're
talking about that's what I'm talking about. Let's say you
get distracted while you're at the light, the red light.

(08:37):
The car lets you know if there's another car in
front of you. It lets you know that the lead
car has pulled off by beating ding ding ding, and
you look up and it says the lead car has
I should go. Now this thing is fire. That's cool,
But that's also telling you, hey, fucker, pay attention. What
are you doing? No doubt, but it's easy to get

(08:58):
distracted when you're at a light, you look to the right.
That's cool. So they're kind of known Honday. It seems
to me is sort of as they reintroduce themselves as
trying to make a play for being like a super
safe car with all these features. Right. Yeah, absolutely, they're
they're definitely stepping it up a notch. Here's the honest

(09:18):
and goodness truth to the good people at Honday. I'm
not giving it back, by the way, We're going to
do a full episode. So we came up with this idea. Yeah,
obviously Honday is one of our sponsors and they've been
super cool to us, and they said to us, what's
an episode you guys would do that we could be
a part of it you wouldn't normally do. And so
Donald and I came up this idea, like, what if
we drive around LA and Joel and Danil will be

(09:40):
in the back seat, and we'll like go and visit
all of the places, whether it's the old location of
the Scrubs hospital which is now apartment buildings, or different
places in our own lives, like our first houses in
LA and just sort of tell anecdotes and stories of
our own life, both related to scrubs and not by
driving around LA. And we're gonna do that relatively soon, right, Joel.

(10:03):
I think of Jude episode. Oh I could, I'll be
wrapped and um and we can do it. But that's
gonna be cool. Now will I be able to drive
or will you be the only driver? Because I would
like my man, my name is my name is the
only one on the lease. But you know I had, Joel.
I think I had Joelle put me on driver's license, right, Joel, Yes, yes,
you are now approved to drive because Donald, I no

(10:25):
offense to you. I do think I'm a slightly better
driver than you, dude. I took stunt driving when I
first started doing this thing. I'm a way better driver
than really. So maybe we could get another Honday and
have a drive competition, Joel. So you want to race,
You're saying, you're saying you want to race. I'm just saying,
I'm just saying, if you want to fast and furious

(10:46):
this thing. Yes, I would like to go to a
track they have. There are tracks in LA where you
can bring your own car. I don't know if Honday
is gonna be down with this idea, But who wear helmet?
We're well, we'll wear helmets and everything's fine if you
wear a helmet and we will race. Okay, there it is.
Can we like hit each other like no, I don't

(11:08):
think where they bang each other on the speeder bikes,
none of that. Okay, cool, there is no But um no,
I'm still I think that's gonna be fun. And I'm
glad you're liking your car and I love it, man,
I kids, the kids are so excited about it, you
know what I mean. Like, usually you get in the
car with your kids and within five minutes they have

(11:31):
messed up the car. But this thing is so nice
that they're trying their best not to spill their food
on the inside inside or cream it's creamy. Well, eventually
I'm sure to make them, make them no, no food,
make them more, make them more gloves. You know those
gloves that people wear when they handle art. Kids need

(11:51):
to put those on. No, I don't think that will
ever happen. But it's just so nice and it's you know,
it's got great sensors on the side to stop you
from you know, if you're above the speed limit, it
warned you that you're above the speed limit. Um, it's
all about safety. It really is all about safety. It's
such a nice car. By the way, did I tell
you what Wilder said to me when she was at

(12:12):
my house? She says, did Casey tell you? No? She
keep Wilder because my goddaughter. I gave her a nice
necklace for her birthday. And she comes up to me.
She goes, thank you for my necklace. I go, oh,
you're so welcome, sweetie. She goes, how many dollars did
it take? Can you tell it? Can you tell it? Katy?
So mama, dude. It was just funny the wording of it, like, oh,

(12:35):
by the way, how many dollars did it take? And
then Casey was so embarrassed. Casey was like time to
go right, Sorry, sorry about that, but no, are you
kidding me? Was adorable. I was laughing with her, but
I didn't tell her how many dollars it took. All right, Well,
let's get off of this for now because we are

(12:56):
let's get onto another seed. Let's get into a c spira. See,
let's get on too. Well. Listen, I want to tell
the audience on what's going on. We we normally, as
you know, almost always have people on related to Scrubs.
We're gonna take a little bit of a different turn
this week because Donald and I were both um blown
away by the documentary c Spiracy, and because we are
so fancy. We're such a fancy podcast that's all across

(13:18):
the world. Now, the the code directors or the director
and producer I forgot exactly what their titles are of
the documentary have agreed to come on and talk to
us about this amazing documentary that was number one in
many many countries on Netflix. So that's how fancy we are. Donald,
We're pretty fancy. Yeah, I'm feeling us right now. Hair,
hair done, nails done, everything did? Um? All right? Are

(13:41):
you ready containing a breaker? Are we go right into
it or we're going maybe five six, seven eight about
we made nurses? Okay, So check this out, Joel and

(14:13):
I with the Black Side of Things to all of
you fans out there of like The Mandalorian or Star Wars.
I worked with a young lady who does hair or
the Mandalorian and she's agreed to come on both Fake

(14:33):
Doctors and on to the Black Side Podcast. And so
I feel like this is a big pull one because
she's said to me, I'll give you as much scoop
as I can give you without getting fired. So that
means we're gonna get some good things. We're gonna get
some good things. We're gonna get some good things. And

(14:55):
she says, and she said that. You know, she talks
today quite a bit, and she has uh you know,
I'm not gonna say she has trying to get into
Sorry one day, Sorry, I hit the bay accident. It
was a well timed accident. You know what, man, that's

(15:21):
not cool. Okay, Uh, he says he can join now
there he is. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for HOLLI. Hi,
how are you doing, bro? How are you doing it?
I'm so sorry, I'm so late. This is crazy. I
was literally just watching garden State. No joke. You're late

(15:45):
because you're watching garden State. That's the best reason a
guest has ever been late. Can I just say this
is like the coolest thing ever, like speaking to you
guys after and yeah, like I was watching so garden
State just then, I was watching, Um, I wish I
was here like a like last week catching up on
Scrubs again. It's just being surreal. Sorry, you know you're

(16:06):
saying it's surreal. It's surreal having you on the show.
You know, you kind of changed my life. Your your
your movie changed my life and how I look at
food and everything. Uh, and so having you having you here.
What was the pill that Morpheus off? It was the
red or the blue one? And the rabbit hole gets deeper?
Which one makes? The red pill makes the rabbit hole

(16:28):
get deeper? I ate the watching your movie was the
red pill, and it just made it go deeper and
deeper and deeper. And and you know now I'm trying
to figure out ways to stay plant based. Uh. And
you'll want it out, It'll be yeah. Well I'm in
the beginning. I'm gonna tell you some Wait let's go back,
let's go back. We're jumping at you for it. So
Donald and I both this this documentary, This young man,

(16:49):
how old are you? I'm twenty seven, started making a
film when I was twenty two. This twenty two year
old young filmmaker set out to make his first documentary
and cut to two thousand and twenty one, and it
is like the number one film on Netflix for a while,
and certainly the number one documentary all over the world

(17:10):
for a long time on Netflix, which is an incredible accomplishment.
So first and foremost, congratulations. Man. It's I don't think
I've ever had something that's been seen as widely that.
The cool thing about Netflix is is that you know
they have these they they they know. I remember Joey
Kane was in The Kissing Booths, which was a team
you know, rom com, and they were able to say, like,

(17:33):
this is the most watched film on Earth right now,
and that kind of happened to you. Man. Everyone in
the world was talking about this film and it had
a big impact and definitely changed my entire life to
this moment, and Donald's as well. And I just wanted
you to say, tell us a little about how it began,
because a lot of our audience won't have seen it,

(17:55):
even though we begged them to watch it so we
could have a discussion about it. But some of them won't.
They may have heard, Oh, I have people in my
lifetime like have you seen it? And they go, no,
I don't want to see it because I love fish.
I don't want to stop eating fish. And I just
think that's a funny response because you're like, well, you
don't have to give ut fish. You don't want to,
but you should at least see what the man has
to say. So how did it begin in terms of
the documentary? Is I remember recall you said I set

(18:16):
out to make a documentary on plastics in the ocean
because I thought that was the biggest conundrum. And then
one of the things I like in documentaries is when
they start out to be about one thing and then
the filmmaker takes a right turn because they in their
research they learned something they never knew. And that feels
like it happened to you. So so should just take
us take it from there a little bit? Yes? Well,
first of all, yeah, so the film did go crazy

(18:38):
and we weren't expecting yet. It's a documentary about the
oceans and fish and who would have thought? And I
did start off to try and explore the ocean in
a way that continued my naivety of what I always
believed about the ocean from David Attenborough and other great
you know documentaries that really helped me fall in love
with the sea where I live in the UK. You know,

(18:58):
you don't you don't see dolphins like you in Malibu.
You know, you don't see him like the great barrier
reef like you do in in northern northeastern Australia. So
for me, my my way of exploring the world was
vicariously through films and and and so I wanted to
one day be able to explore the seas just like
they did, just like Jack Cousteau and Sylvia Earl and
and other great legends of marine exploration. And like most people,

(19:22):
I always thought that plastics were the main threat. And
you know, try to eat dolphins safe when you can,
and that's that's the be all on end and that's
really all you can do to save the ocean. And
you know, my view of the seas where everything was
hunky dorry. And when I was about seventeen, this huge
whale washed up pretty much on my doorstep here in
the southeast of England, and that's my That was my

(19:44):
first glimpse, first of all, was seeing a real whale,
like right there outside of places like Sea World, which
is a completely foreign environment for these animals to be
in when I was a baby, when I was a kid,
when I saw them um and it kind of sparked
my curiosity to see it at something might be wrong
with the sea and the autopsies were showing plastic was
being ingested by these animals, and that led me down

(20:06):
the route of exploring that until you know I ended
up in Japan and then Hong Kong. Before you know it,
I'm halfway around the world speaking to Thai slaves and
out at sea with the Liberian Coast Guard looking at
legal fishing. And so the journey just went from there. Yeah,
now you went really deep, and there's so much the
documentary covers. For me, one of the things that you

(20:29):
talk about a lot of things, and I want to
just talk about the main bullet points, But one of
the things I really was troubled by is why aren't
these NGOs the sort of health companies. I don't know
what you call them. I guess they're called ngeos. Boun't
even know what the fuck that means. But why do
they avoid speaking about not easy fish? Yeah? Why why
do they avoid the subject? It seems in your documentary

(20:51):
it's a bit of a conspiracy that they're they're getting
money from from fish organizations and from animal agriculture in
the case of land animals. But what is that? Because
to me, that was the most befuddling thing One of
the most befuddling things in your documentary what In order
to answer that, you need to follow the money, and
sometimes it's it can be impossible to get a solid answer.

(21:13):
But a lot of the time, the marine conservation, the
marine sciences, the fishery scientists tend to be paid for
by the fishing industry, and so there's a little bit
of a revolving door sometimes between those ocean NGOs and
those sort of fishing industry you know, regulating bodies or
whatever it may be that are in charge of like

(21:34):
managing fish populations, and so their paychecks, you know, might
not be coming from the fishing industry right now, but
their next job will, and they've got relationships that they built.
And sometimes, you know, if you're speaking out about the
leading threat of the oceans, you want to try and
avoid the big one, which is the fishing industry, which
is paying us all that money if you're working there.

(21:55):
And so we'd rather talk about plastic straws, you know,
or harry on this myth of sustainable fishing, even though
we're living in a state where the oceans have never
been more depleted, and yet when you walk into assume
market pretty much anywhere you are in the world, all
the fish is saying that sustainable. Now, how can those
two realities be simultaneously in existence. It's a paradox, right,

(22:18):
It doesn't make sense, and it's You could equate it
to the Amazon Rainforest. If you said that, hey, ninety
percent of the wildlife in the Amazon Rainforest has gone,
what should we do? You wouldn't say, let's sustainably kill
the last ten percent. And yet that's what we're doing
for the oceans, And unfortunately, there's a lot of internal
corruption and the funding is often coming from the fishing

(22:39):
industry to those very organizations that are in charge of
stewarding the ocean and taking care of the ocean. It says, yeah,
for me, it's unexcitable and it felt like a betrayal
when I found that out. You caught a lot of
people with their jaw dropped. I thought, like a lot
of you found yourself in a lot of awkward interviews,
which are great if you like documentaries. I love a
good solid, awkward, cringey documents, a cringey interview, But you

(22:59):
found yourself in a lot of places with people that
seemed to not know you were going there with your questions.
Did you find that to be the case? Yeah, And
I think because of the way we did the film.
You know, it was just so lucy. It was just
Lucy and I that were doing the filming, and we
were the ones that were, you know, traveling around the
world as well. But we have these small, tiny cameras,

(23:20):
you know, we're shooting on tiny little handy you know,
sort of DSLR type cameras, and I don't think the
people that were interviewing took us very seriously, and I
think that let their guard down in a big way
and it actually helped to open up the interviews. So,
whether that be speaking to some of the people in
these in these ocean organizations or to the European Commissioner
of Fisheries in the Environment for Europe and the European

(23:42):
Union government. Somehow we snuck in and and asked those honestly,
very straightforward questions. We weren't trying to do a gotcha thing,
we weren't trying to be confrontation or aggressive, very very
simple questions and it was amazing to see the lengths
that some of them would go to to you know
avoid you know, kind of like speaking to politicians you know,

(24:03):
there's always a way to weave around it, and so
you know, yes, we persisted a little bit and just
kept on bringing it back, and that's that's when it
really came across that they didn't want to talk about
something or they really didn't know what they were talking about,
and that's what sort of led to it. Let's take
a break. We'll be right back after these fine words.

(24:26):
Did you ever feel like your life was in danger? Yeah,
this is a question. This question comes up a lot,
and I think I was thinking, by the way, before
you answer it, I just want to say Donald, I
had that exact thought when I was thinking today, we're
knowing you, we're going to see you, I was thinking, like,
what do I want to ask him? Obviously I don't
want to try and ask him some questions that he
hasn't been asked, because I know you've been doing You've
had a ton of interviews and pressed after this. But

(24:47):
that kept coming up in my mind too, because not
only do you seem like you could be in danger
a few times in documentary, but this had such a
big impact and these are such big players. I sort
of made a sort of off hand joked to you
when we were when we were texting each other like
are you are you safe? So yeah, I agree with
Donald's question. Do you ever feel at the time when

(25:09):
you're making it end now that you're that you're in
any danger? Well, hindsight is twenty twenty, and I think
a lot of the time, it wasn't until we'd left
a scenario or a country that we looked back and
looked to our footage and and kind of wondered whether
what we were doing was actually quite safe. And and
that's when we realized the danger of it. So sometimes

(25:29):
when you're in the moment um, I guess you guys,
you know, when you're when you're on the set, you're filming,
you're just worried. You're just concerned about telling the story,
exploring the subject, and getting the footage. And it's only
when you think back you realize the danger you put
yourself into get those shots. Yeah, but we're not. We're
not pissing off billion dollars industries that would that would

(25:51):
love that would love you to quote go away. Yeah, true, true. Yeah.
So there's there's some countries I've been told I appreciate
be going back to um. You know what, Look, we
were dealing with some pretty serious issues in from from
a very very large global industry with a lot of
connections to government and lobbying power. When we're in Thailand,

(26:13):
for example, we were we were trying to uncover the
human rights violations that are happening there, the slavery, the
force labor, and you know, for us when we were
going there, kind of sounds self for grandizing to think that, hey,
we were the ones that were that were in danger,
when really, like we we were trying to tell the
stories of people whose lives were actually in danger for

(26:35):
decades or years at sea, not being able to return home,
being being thrown with boiling water, porn all over them,
threatened with iron bars, guns thrown overboard. We were trying,
we were making sure it was trying to be about them,
but simultaneously, you know, when you're in that scenario, um,
you know, our translator was basically saying in the car

(26:57):
when we were trying to film him, Hey, don't feel
my face because I could be hunted down for helping you.
And that's that's that's when it suddenly became real for us.
And that was on the way to do those interviews
in it and it kind of We went there with
the intention, I think, to have like a two or
three week trip to try and capture everything, and it
ended up being like just a couple of days because

(27:18):
we had to just cool everything off and just come
back home m because of the risks. So what about
post your success, because you know, I feel like, also
this blew up so big that you know, everyone in
the in the world weighed in on your documentary and
we can talk about some of the some of the
criticism of it, because anytime anything gets huge, people have

(27:39):
a lot to say. But that's just in a normal
documentary or a film, like making a big proclamation about
a very, very wealthy industry. And I just wondered if
again you ever you felt since the success that you
that you've been in danger. Yeah. I do feel like
both myself and Lucy are in danger perhaps in the

(28:02):
near future when we go out and start filming again
in some of these locations, because now we're well known.
You gotta do like bot right, they got your pick
I'm sure they got both of yours picks up. Like
did you ever see Romance in the Stone when Danny
DeVito is into at the precinct in like Colombia and
his pictures up on the wall. Her you need you

(28:27):
need to hire a fucking bow rats makeup guy, bro
and just go. I know, maybe I should go. My
dad looks a bit like borat his Iranian I should
probably like just start dressing up like him because everybody
knows your face now. Yeah, so so yeah, that's a good,
good idea. Maybe maybe my next film will be inspired
by Sasha Baron Cohen. Listen. One of the biggest things

(28:49):
for me, I saw Blackfish, and I loved When I
was a kid, going to Sea Roll was so exciting.
I loved Sea Roll. We had a Scrubs episode with
Sea World in it, you know, we we didn't know.
I was in someplace in Mexico where you can swim
with dolphins. I love dolphins. I thought it was the
coolest thing ever. I just didn't know. And then I
saw Blackfish and it was one hundred and eighty degrees

(29:10):
epiphany for me. Like I had no idea Fox Sea
World keeping these giant creatures in a in basically a
performance enforced performance mode in tiny tanks. I felt like this,
and I think Donald did too, that this was that
way about eating fish and I had already given up
eating eating animals land animals for the most part, because

(29:33):
I was like, oh, you know what, I don't want
to be a part of this anymore for all the
obvious reasons. And at least I'll have fish. I like fish.
And then I watched your documentary and I'm like, this, mofo,
Now I can't eat fish. And really, one of the
most one of the things that really got me was
this whole thing a byecatch, because I didn't realize I
had no idea, like the blackfish story. I had no

(29:54):
idea they were keeping orcas in a minuscule tank and
that they were depressed and they were pulling their babies
away from of them. And now you say, I'm just
reading here through over three hundred thousand whales and dolphins
are killed every year correct as a result of bycatch.
That is to say, these giant fishing trawlers are pulling

(30:15):
enormous the biggest nets you can imagine, and in doing so,
whilst getting the fish that they want to sell, they're
taking up approximately three hundred thousand whales and dolphins. Additionally,
a thousand sea turtles are caused by plastics. Sorry so
so what going go into the numbers and then and then,
And this was a real big thing for me because
I just assumed naively, like everyone does. Something says dolphins safe,

(30:38):
and you're like, okay, cool, I can eat that. Yeah.
So so one of the best estimates that has been
around for a while is that three hundred thousand dolphins, whales,
and pulpouses are killed in fishing gear every year. Now,
I spoke to another person from the UK who believes
that just in Europe it could be in the region
of a million commando dolphins are killed in fishing year.

(31:02):
We just don't know. It could be. I mean, we
could come out with another documentary another few years and
it could be like, you know, three million a year.
The point is, we just don't know. Because it's so
far out sea, there's no interest, there's no there's no
there's no incentive for a fisherman to report the dolphins
that he's killed. He's only going to get punished for it.
And so it continues to happen. And in fact, many

(31:24):
of the dolphins and whales that wash up on our
coasts are actually the dead dolphins that died in those
nets that have been discarded and for every one that
washes up, there's about another ten that sink at sea,
and so we never get a true picture of what
actually happens when it comes to turtles. A global study
estimated a you know, conservative number, but about a thousand

(31:47):
turtles die from from plastic consumption. Now when you compare
that to the impact of fishing by catch. In the film,
we mentioned a fact that's two hundred and fifty thousand
sea tutles die every year, just US fisheries. Now, since then,
since the film's come out, the group behind that that
number actually said, hey, we made a mistake. It was

(32:07):
just it wasn't US numbers, it was it was global.
We'd a little bit more digging and found it a
more recent number and found it it's actually more in
the region of five hundred thousand sea titles every year
killed in fishing gear. So this is by far the
biggest threat. It's not see you know that that video
that went viral years ago, that plastic straw up the
nose of its title, And now, look, plastic consumed. Plastic

(32:28):
is important that we tackle. I'm not I'm not trying
to share on it or anything, but we need to
start addressing the big picture, It's like, if we had
a ship that was sinking and we've got a massive
hole at the bottom called the fishing industry and bikecatch,
we should be clogging that one up before we use
teaspoons to flick water out the other side of the boat.
And that's what really like plastic straws is to me.
So so yes, it's a huge impact on wildlife. That's

(32:52):
that's the reason why they're going becoming threatened in our
seas well. At the end of the at the end
of the documentary, you were saying, like, if we just
gave the ocean ten years, it would it would regenerate
itself and stuff like that. How is there such thing like?
And also there were the people that were in these
boats that were in pretty much canoes kayaks in the

(33:14):
middle of the ocean, in the middle of the ocean,
fishing near these uh near these other giant boats because
they were hungry fishermen trying to feed well because those
crews have come in and taken all the fish, and
those those those guys who were who need fish to
live were like, can we have some of your fish please?
How do we get back to that? Though? Like it
says ten years. How is there a way to stop

(33:38):
commercial fishing to where there's not hundreds and hundreds and
hundreds and thousands of boats out there just raking the sea,
uh and and and and killing it. Can we how
do we get back to that? Because the solution can't
be just stop eating fish, because not everybody's gonna do that, right,
not only everyone can, I mean Ali, one of the
criticisms you got was like, hey, this is this is

(34:00):
not a luxury some people can try to do giving
up fish. This is their only source of food in
some parts of the world. Right. Isn't that correct that
you got that critique? Yes, so there's there's a few
questions there. So so sorry, We're sorry, We're so we're
so excited to have you. We have or like just
like firing questions at you. But we are very interesting.
I love it, no, absolutely, as in my passion. I'm
happy too. So so when it comes to what we can,

(34:22):
like do ocean ecosystems bounce back, they absolutely do. You
just gotta give them time. You just got to leave
them alone. Essentially, the best thing we can do is
really just leave the oceans alone. And when it comes
to the ten year mark. We've got a petition that
says that we want to try and um put it,
protect thirty percent of our oceans from industrial fishing by
the year twenty thirty. And that's going to create a

(34:43):
huge buffer for marine life to come back. And and
so when it comes to those those people around the
world who are dependent on fish, who truly do rely
on fish for sustenance, the biggest threat to those communities,
whether they be in Africa or in Southeast Asia or
wherever they are, usually the biggest threat to them actually
putting food on their on their dinner tables is the

(35:03):
industrial fishing fleets that usually coming from Europe or Asia
and basically stealing all the fish. Now taken to an
it's extreme that that's what happened in Somalia which led
to the Somalia piracy issue. Now there were other political issues,
the issues that were happening at the same time, but
the illegal fishing which was really sort of like the
catalyst which which brought about the Somalian piracy. They were

(35:26):
all fishermen before they resorted to commandering boats with old
AK forty sevens. And one one fact that often gets
misquoted as a as a way to critique. To critique
the film is a number that came out. I think
it might be in the FAO that said three billion
people worldwide rely on fish too as their for nutrition.
Now that's not what the actual quote said. It said

(35:48):
that three billion people get a portion of their animal
protein from fish. I think it's usually around the twenty
percent mark. Now that's your that's your your animal protein
or your overall protein. Now, for example, in India, where
the animal protein consumption is low, let's say it's some
dairy or some fish, you could say that fish comprises

(36:09):
maybe eighty percent of their animal protein. That's misleading. It
makes me think that they entirely rely on it to
feed themselves. It's a little bit more complicated than that now,
but people do rely on it. But for the vast
majority of people, you're going to be fine if you
don't eat If you don't eat fish, and shifting to
plant based options are often cheaper, especially in Europe. I mean,
fish is pretty much a luxury creating, like a salmon

(36:31):
or you know, lots of different species of fish. They
tend to be a luxury item. It's not something that's
you're absolutely depending on and how do we stop these
hundreds of thousands or millions of fishing vessels at sea.
In nineteen eighty six or seven, there was a global
moratorium on industrial whaling. What happened was in the years
leading up to it, it was like the birth of

(36:52):
the environmental movement. People were going out to see with
cameras and documenting the industrial whaling and how bad it was.
That put pressure from governments to change, from people rising
up and saying, hey, we need we recognize whaling has
played an important part in our culture, in an economy
for hundreds of years, but now it's times it comes
to an end. We've we've we've wacked these populations so much.
We can do an international moratorium on industrial fishing, all

(37:16):
heavy gear fishing technology. We can do that in the
next few years. If this film continues to rise up
that pressure. There's no difference really. I mean sure, fishing
industry is huge today, but the whaling industry used to
be huge. It's one of the first international trades was
the whaling industry. Is what lit our homes with whale
oil and stuff like that. So we need government pressure
as well as like grassroes up in personal Actually, yeah,

(37:38):
do you think that. I mean, that would be the best,
greatest outcome that could come out of the difference you've made,
is you know, it's one thing that I am sure
Donald and I are not the only ones who made
such an impact on it. It It goes without saying, because
it's become such a huge success. What do people let
you fire it up? Like me? What can we do?
I mean, obviously we can sign your petition, so one
of them, you're right, is the petition, you know, And

(38:00):
so far we've had six hundred and fifty thousand signatures
on our petition in the last month or two, which
is huge, and we're going to be taking those signatures
to the G seven summit next month. I think Joe
Biden's coming down as well as other leaders from around
the world. We're going to present them to those leaders
to show that people will have desperate to be heard
on this issue. We want protection of our seas, and

(38:20):
Joe Biden came out and said that he's going to
try and he's pledging to conserve thirty percent of the
US land and seas by the year twenty thirty, which
sounds great. However, when you've look into the fine print
of the pledge, you realized actually twenty six percent of
the US waters are already part of a marine protected zone,
so this would only mean a four percent increase over
the next ten years. And the problem with marine protected

(38:41):
zones is they don't actually mean anything unless you have
a no take zone, it doesn't mean anything. It's like
having turning the Amazon rainforest into a protected area but
still allowing logging and forest fires. It's literally like that.
So we need to put pressure on governments to create
no take zones. It's the only thing that matters when
it comes to protecting the sea. And when it comes
to the support we've had from Asia. I'm getting messages

(39:02):
every day from people from who grew up in fishing
villages in rural Japan how eating fish was was, you know,
just part of their upbringing. Dates every day and now
they're not, and now they're they're actually they never realized
the impact fishing was having on the oceans. And the
support from Asia has been huge. It's it's been incredible
to hear those stories that one town with the with
the with the whale massacres that was also featured in

(39:23):
The Cove, that documentary The Cove, which is another documentary.
If you're as interested in this as Donald and I are,
I recommend watching The cove Um. But um, like, oh gosh,
that's one of the places where I really thought you
were going to get killed when you were filming those guys.
And I wonder, like, Okay, I'm sorry for being so
naive on this, but surely there's Japanese people that must

(39:45):
be so livid about this too, right, I mean, we
don't have any power over Japan, but the Japanese people,
and doll, how is this still so popular there? This
this brutal whaling that goes on. Well, actually a lot
of people in Japan just don't know what happens. It's
as simple as that the government don't publicize it. And
the thing is that there's a lot of there's cultural differences,

(40:07):
and there's political pressure. There's a lot of nationalists in
that region of Taiji, and they get very defensive when
a lot of foreign activists, like we would I mean,
if American if American soil had like always Japanese activists
saying you couldn't do something, you know, you'd have naturalists
come up and try to fight them off. And but yeah,
unfortunately that has distracted from it. But people just often,
I mean, just like this film is shown like people

(40:27):
just weren't aware of the problem even within Japan, that
dolphins and whales being killed in the same way that
people in France have not been aware that in just
a small town in the west on the western south
coast of France, ten thousand dolphins are being killed in
just a season of sea bass fishing. Right, just people
are just unaware of this no matter where you are,
whether you're from the United States, France, Japan, it's all

(40:49):
the same. Like I feel like if people were just
to even if you don't give a crap about fish,
let's say you don't give two ships about fish whatever,
if they could just understand that if the ocean dies,
we all die, all of us die, then maybe you know,
I just I just don't understand. There's so many warning

(41:11):
signs and so many things that are that are there
that you know that we should be listening to, and
we're not. And I don't understand how companies could be like,
my money is my money. I'm gonna grow all of
this money i possibly can, and once everybody dies, I'm
gonna die with mine. It's like I'm gonna die with
my money. You can't take that ship. You can't take

(41:31):
it with you. Write that down. Hey the Egyptian, don't
think think about it. The Egyptians tried to take it
with them, and what did they do? They got wrong.
We don't know. That's what they might be in heaven
with their goats. We don't know. I'm telling you right now,
tootin common all of these, all of these do you
make a face, Daniel? What's wrong? They were buried with
their animals, weren't they? Were they with theirs? They were
buried with gold and their favorite animals. Am I wrong? Okay?

(41:56):
Guess guess what's not in their tombs? Their gold? It's gone.
Let's take a break. We'll be right back after these
fine words. One of the things I thought was interesting
when you got critique because you said the oceans will
be empty by twenty forty eight. There was a big pushback,

(42:17):
but it seemed to me the tenor of the pushback
was like, no, they won't, it'll be twenty seventy. There
was a lot of like, that's your fucking being crazy
twenty forty eight, and there was like, no, no, it'll be,
it'll be twenty one hundred or whatever, but it'll still like,
but everyone agrees that we're on a trajectory to emptying
the ocean, right, Yeah, it's it's it's it's I mean,

(42:38):
it's kind of pathetic. It's like it's like arguing about
like who's going to jump off a cliff bus, Like
it just doesn't matter. Point point is our oceans are emptying,
And yeah, you're right. It's like the study that we
were sighting in the film, and we were careful to
make sure we sighted it well, was that, according to
the study, if fishing trends continue the way they have
been by the twenty forty eight, the oceans we virtually

(43:00):
empty of fish. Now that doesn't mean there's not going
to be a single fish left. It just means they've
got to get to the point where they're so collapsed
that it's just not there's just not feasible anymore to
be catching fish. And that study was from two thousand
and six, and people have said that the that the
paper was retracted. It never was. It's been cited like
three thousand, three hundred times or something ridiculous, and the

(43:20):
original author, I think more recently looked back at the
fish populations and found that many of the species were
actually in a worse steak than they than they were
when he did the original paper, And the United Nations
put out a report just like last year and said that, yeah,
I mean if if basically by twenty fifty most typical
fish stocks will be completely collapsed. So it's crazy, I mean,

(43:43):
And the main point is, who cares whether it's twenty
fifty eight, twenty sixty eight, twenty seventy eight, it doesn't matter.
We're all it's going in the wrong direction. And one
of the main critics of that paper and of us
has been a guy called ray Hillborn And according to
a Green Piece article, I don't know it's for sure,
but according to a Green Piece article, he was paid

(44:03):
to like three point five million dollars from the fishing
industry to do his fishing studies and never disclosed it
for years until more recently, and basically another another example
of a fishery scientist getting paid by the industry itself
to defend it and be an overfishing denier. Well, yeah,
I mean that that's crazy to me. That's that's the

(44:24):
craziest thing ever. Like we know, global warming is happening.
I mean, I should say climate change is happening. We
know this is happening, and we know that we are
part of the reason why this is happening, a big
part of it. And yet still we're like, I'm still
gonna burn coal, I'm still gonna burn gas, I'm still
gonna overfish the sea, you know what I mean. And

(44:45):
it's like, because I'm trying to get minds and I
feel like that's what you know. America is great for
one of those for that reason alone. You have the
freedom to go out and make it happen for yourself.
But at some point we got to look at what
we're doing to each other, and we're not looking out.
I mean we are, but we're like, I don't give
a shit. It's fucking hilarious to me, and it's scary. Also,

(45:06):
it's like, what my kids are gonna have to go
through when they're my age. If they're by twenty we
said twenty twenty eight, they'll be like thirty five, thirty
six years old by that time. Dude. Yeah, well, holy shit.
Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Like I've got I've

(45:28):
not since I've got a one year old baby, he
was born during the pandemic, and it was like post production.
It was kind of crazy, but I worked out that.
So I'm twenty seven now I realized that he will
be twenty seven exactly twenty forty eight. So it's kind
of brought it home for me as well. Like and often,
there's something called the economics of extinction, and there's there's
actually a benefit for those involved in fishing for species

(45:50):
to become more and more scarce because it drives up
profit in the same way that things anything that's scarce
becomes profitable. That's why bluefin tuna is getting upside three
million dollars for a fish in Japan is because that's
a rad I want to talk about. We won't keep
you too much longer. I want to talk about a
few things in the supermarket that really landed with me.
By the way, Joelle has just chimed in that, yes,

(46:12):
they were buried with their animals, including lions, cats, and dogs.
It doesn't mention aren't lions, aren't lions cats? Yes, But
I also gets funnier to say goats. So I said goats,
I pictured a goat with like a golden collar. Well,
they left the goat's carcass. They just took the golden collars.
You know, I don't think anyone who robbed the sermons

(46:33):
took the goat bones. Um, maybe you should make a
documentary about this, Alie. Now, a few things that stood
out to me in the supermarket that I didn't know
all right. First of all, salmon is no longer pink.
That's all die pretty much. Yeah, farm salmon gets given farms,
so specifically, farm salmon doesn't turn that color. And you

(46:56):
showed in the documentary a color wheel like you'd see
for paint chips in your house, and and the particular
distributor gets to choose how pink they want their fish
to look. Yeah, I mean if you if you go
to Whole Foods right now or tomorrow or whatever, like
you'll see on the back of farm salmon. Even other
things I think, like shrimp as well, they feed them
a die in it. They usually have to label what
they do, and most yeah, farm salmon would probably be

(47:20):
gray because they're swimming in circles. These are fish that
are built to like swim up waterfalls forty miles a day,
and they're just swimming in circles in their own filth,
and their flesh just literally turns gray. So they have
to dye the salmon it's color, it's pinkish orange color
in order for it to be palatable and for them
to do their marketing adverts for So yeah, you know

(47:40):
what made me right then and there. That was the
point where I was like, oh, I'm not eating it.
When he was like they're swimming around, they'd like these
things got clamidia. The fish guy, I was like, well,
you know what, yep, listen. One thing, One thing I
don't want is chlamydia on my fish um. Now. Another
thing I don't want to many on anything, but especially

(48:01):
my fish. Another thing I think it was your doc,
but I've watched like so many you send me down
a wormhole of these docks. I've watched like nine hundred
of them. But I forgot some of the things that
I forgot if it's you or somebody else, but that
the fish we're seeing in the tent, in the in
the on the ice and the supermarket is at least
a week old. I mean at least a week old.
I mean when you're when you're talking about the I
mean think about boat that's like thousand miles at seeing

(48:23):
you really think it's going to get to you in
a day. In my mind, up to forty fucking six
years old, I did. I honestly thought. I especially thought
if I'm going to a high end market like Whole Foods,
like look how fresh that is? And then you said that,
I was like, oh, it's a week old. That's not
what I picked it. I mean, hey, hey, Zach, that's
that's optimistic. I mean, that's the bluefinchina that's about twenty

(48:45):
years old in a freezer somewhere right now. Like it's
literally you're talking about really old fish that died decades ago.
It's being stopped up. Um, but yeah, weeks months? Uh yeah, man. Okay,
Now my last question, and it's probably one of the
bigges ones in the documentary, and we can finish on
this because I'm sure you have better things to do,
like go back to watching Garden State. But the thing

(49:08):
that sort of fooled us all was this idea of
something being dolphins safe. Um, it's the documentary, if you
haven't seen it shows that that that's not true. There's
no way, there's no possible way to police these boats.
We don't there's no not nearly enough manpower. It all
happens with sillion miles from shore. Um Zach. They try,

(49:28):
they try, It's just that some of these people are
easily bought or quickly killed. So just just touch on
that real quickly ality, because there's plenty people who are
listening to this, going, guys, great, that's cool. He sounds cool.
I'm not going to stop eating fish. I eat dolphins
safe everything. Well, at least know that that's bullshit, which
Ali will now tell you why. Yeah, I mean, dolphins

(49:49):
Safe Tuna is for me, and my opinion is complete bullshit. Basically,
they can't guarantee that Dolphinsafe Tuna is in fact dolphins safe.
And I heard it from the horse's mouth. I mean,
I speared to the guy who basically runs the group,
and he said, yeah, you can't guarantee it. Who knows
what happens when these ships are out at sea. You

(50:10):
could send observers to be on board and make sure
they're doing everything right, but then they could be bribed.
So yeah, the label doesn't guarantee anything. And yet we
wouldn't stand for this when it came to anything else.
If it was like, hey, your your produce, Hey guess
what it's. It's maybe organic or maybe not GMO. You know,
you want one hundred percent guarantee, and yet with Dolphin

(50:32):
Safe Tuna, there's no guarantee for it. And I believe
it's fraud and I don't think it's going to be
you know, staying on supermarket shelves much longer. I think
a time for it to change his name. The added
thing was that this label became a thing that the
companies would license. So it's a bit of a scam, right,
they're paying, they're paying for something that can't be regular. Well,

(50:53):
when it comes to the MSc label, which is like
the gold standard sustainable certifier of the world's fisheries, Yeah,
they get something like eighty percent or more of their
income from licensing their logo and seafood products. So there's
a conflict of interest there. And there are so many
instances of fishery that they're labeling is sustainable as you know,

(51:14):
one of the best practices in the world, and you
look into it and actually they're still wiping out sharks
and titles and any other you know, swordfish, other other
kinds of species that are threatened in our seas and
so as we explore in the film is like these
these these labels basically have become this huge marketing phrase
and don't really have any meaning meaning of it at all,

(51:35):
and it's made us all really gullible. Like the word
sustainable is something that's made us all extremely gullible. Whenever
we see in the supermarket, we feel good about it,
we feel guilt free, and we've we've brought into it.
But but no, this doesn't have any meanings a similar thing. Again,
is this your doc or not? Forgive me because I've
literally watched like ten more you inspired me to go
down the rabbit hole. But the thing about the recycling
icon with the number in the middle, no, that wasn't.

(51:57):
I didn't tell you that. But that's a whole I
know a little So it reminds me a little bit.
So the recycling arrow thing icon that we see on
all plastics, right, So the plastics industry campaigned to have
that beyond every piece of plastic, which leads the average
person myself to think, oh, all of this is recyclable.
That's bullshit. Look inside the numbers. Only numbers one, two,

(52:20):
and I think five are actually truly recyclable. The industry
successfully lobbied to have that sort of arrow icon on
all plastics, leading people like me to think that everything
I was putting in the recycling is recycling. Well, next
time you're putting something recycling, look at the number. If
it's not one, two or five, it's not even recyclable.

(52:41):
And here's another thing about that. No, and this is
kind of outside of my expertise, but basically everything is recyclable.
It's just that there's a cost to recycling it. And
so recycling warehouses or whatever you'd call it, only gonna
First of all, they have to sort through it. They
have to count all those numbers. And what happened. I
heard a guy in Hong Kong who's involved in this
plastic issue. He says, there's been all these new plastic

(53:04):
straws come out that have been made out of like cornstarch. Right,
they're apparently like degradable or compostible. He says, what the
thing is when you put that in a regular bin,
it's not going to compost. And what happens is if
if the guy at the recycling plant who looks at
plastical ed a, he can tell you what's what's compostible
and what's just regular plastic. If he sees some compostible

(53:24):
ones in the other plastic, he will just throw the
whole bag to landfill. So it's like the whole plastic
trash thing is the whole other sort of cattle of fish.
Excuse the pun, but it needs its own researching as well.
And that's the thing. We've all been duped by labels everywhere. Yeah,
I find that I got so mad when I watched
your documentary, feeling like on so many things, but really

(53:46):
feeling like we've been duped. We've been duped by being
told someone's dart, something's dolphin saved. We've been duped by saying, oh,
this is recyclable, and it all comes from giant entities
with zillions of darts are getting their way pretty much. Yeah,
And honestly, I think that's why we've seen such levels
of environmental decline despite the overwhelming rise in awareness of

(54:12):
these things. You know, we're living in a time where
most people have never cared more about the environment because
we've we all have our basic well not we all have,
but like a lot of us have our basic needs maps,
so now we can start thinking beyond that. And yet
we're being constantly duped, and our concern is being redirected
back into those industries that are actually the destroyers of
those things that we care about. And that's why I say,
you know, since since like the last thirty years or

(54:36):
or more, we've we've we've we've never seen more emphasis
on sustainable fishing and eco conscious, eco labels and sustainability
and all those things. And yet in the last thirty
forty years we've seen the most levels of decline, and
I believe part of the reason for that is that
we're all being duped by these genius marketing agencies behind
these companies. Well, I think you really make an indifference.
Um you another documentary documentarians are making difference. You certainly

(55:00):
made a giant and I just think you're an inspiration man.
You're you were twenty two when you started this and
you're twenty seven now. I mean, listen, if you're listening
to this, look how what a difference you can make
if you put your mind to something. I mean, I
just think you're there's so many people want to make
a difference in the world, and you really are doing that.
That's one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you.
It's just the fact that you didn't you took you

(55:22):
took a camera, a small little camera, you and your
You and your wife. She's your wife, right, yeah. So
we started off just as friends and by the end
of it we you know, I propose now we have
a kid love story. Telling you right now in your
face will do that shit a gun in your face,
will do that shit out of nowhere. Baby, you know
what I was together, You can We have gone through

(55:44):
some stuff, that's true, right, I can't. I can't imagine
being with anyone else. Right, Well, let's make a baby exactly.
She's in the other room right now. I mean, I
don't know what when people are listening to this, but
it's it's late here in the UK, and she would
have loved to be on and I think it's funny things.
I think you should tell her when she wakes up
that we were very offended that she slept through the interview.

(56:17):
We will wrap it up, but tell everyone where they
go if they want to sign your petition. So I
think the best place to direct people is either our
website C spiracy or our social media on Instagram. Is
the best place is at c spiracy and all the
links are there. To our petition. It's you know, we'd
love to get this to a million signatures. I think

(56:38):
that'd be incredible to be able to like hand that
off to these worldly there's hey, look, they go one
million boom and we're currently just three hundred and fifty
thousand off of that. So we just really want to
like just get that extra mind. Everybody, go sign links,
go sign a petition, and listen. We are not prositizing.
I'm brand new to this topic. Don't think I'm I'm
on high and mighty telling you to stop eating fish.

(56:59):
But I do think you should watch this documentary at
the very least because you know there will be I
guarantee you there will be things in this documentary that
you didn't know that open your eyes to what you're
putting in your you and your family's uh stomachs, right Donald, Yeah,
your yeah, I agree. Listen, we'd know that we can't

(57:19):
convince people to do something that they don't want to do,
but at least go out and get some information before
you say, before you say that's not for me or
that's for me, don't don't take dick right, You know
that too? He yeah, well, and I agree, I agree absolutely,

(57:39):
because that's that's the whole place that I came from
when making this film, is a place of curiosity and
just love for the ocean. And you know, any any
move that people can do in their daily lives in
that direction of moving towards that plant based diet and
avoiding that that the consumption of marine life, that wildlife
that's in the ocean, that's gonna be a great thing. Um.
So yeah, if you're like is where I came from,

(58:01):
And if you're like me and you are fascinated by
this and want to go down the wormhole. Some others
I liked were game changers, Um, what the health? Um? Conspiracy?
By the way, Oh, one of the biggest questions I
buried the lead. One of the biggest questions I get
is how could he not have spelled it conspiracy? Sea? Yeah,

(58:23):
I'm so glad, Yeah, because I was like, I was like,
everyone was like there was something like on on on,
you know, you became so popular. There was like this
meme that was like fifty percent of people that watched
the movie go I'm never eating fish again. Fifty percent
of people going, how could he not have called it conspiracy?
I know, it was like it went so viral. That mean,

(58:44):
it was so viral that we were so happy about
it because it gave comedians the opportunity to talk about
the film to like millions of followers, and it just
it was honestly, it was an an accidental marketing pr
genius thing that happened, and I was so glad about it.
But see, like the conspiracy thing, so c Spiracy kind
of follows on with from from cal Spiracy. The executive

(59:06):
producer is Kip Anderson, who produced cal Spiracy with with
Keithan Koon And so this is kind of like following
that vein of film um and the reason why not conspiracy?
We'd be forever trying to spell conspiracy. Imagine why the mouth?
Hey have you seen conspiracy? Conspiracy? No conspiracy? Sea? Oh
why didn't they just call it c spire? I can't
tell you because I promoted you so much because I'm

(59:27):
like your publicist. How many people were like, it was
right there? How how did he miss it? People are
like disappointed, like he's such a talented filmmaker, how could
he have missed it? It was right there? No, Yeah,
I know, I know, I hate to sat but like
we genuinely did. We thought about the title years ago,
and we just love that c Spiracy was the own thing.
And um, well, you're a very gift You're a very
gifted filmmaker. And I hope that we get to watch

(59:50):
many of your films. I'm sure, um you're gonna do.
I think you said in our in our chat that
you're going to also make narrative films as well as documentaries.
Donald and I are of both of it for hire. Um,
if you need. I'm a decent actor, He's a very
good he can do draw Well, guys, let's let's let's
talk then it'd be it'd be great. I think we'll

(01:00:12):
be coming out to the States hopefully this year. Um,
as soon as you know COVID permitting and everything. It'd
be great to meet up. Um. But yeah, I'd like
to explore narrative films. I got some other documentaries up
up my sleeve which are equally explosive and revealing stories.
Just be careful for anything on aliens, anything on what

(01:00:32):
about area fifty one? Can you do that now? I
mean I can, I can try if if you if
if pretty pleased, and maybe I'll didn't know. There are
so many way right nowsposing people we want to know
about area fifty one and Nail. You know, it's so
funny during fifty one there every dude, it's crazy. The
aliens came out as like a total real thing during
COVID and everyone was so busy they were like not
now aliens and no one's talking about it. Did you

(01:00:53):
see the fucking video of the fighter pilot being like
seeing that that space cruiser or whatever it was, and
he was like, holy shit, lookna go, there's like a genius,
like level badass fighter jet pilot with this UFOs sighting
and no one's even talking about it because everyone's too
out the one what about the guys that were on
the battleship and the things hovering over the thing and
then dips back into the water and stuff like the
government coming came out and said yeah, yeah, yeah, there's

(01:01:15):
UFOs and everyone's like not now, UFOs were busy. I
can't believe it. I know humanity has been waiting like
like thousands of years for this moment for the Yeah, dude,
that's why we need you for drop whatever you're doing.
We need you to make a UFO. Do we need
to do a UFO doc makeily sitting down with like
an alien being. Now listen, this is an uncomfortable, cringing interview,

(01:01:38):
like but why are you here? Yeah, they're like to
get your finish, to get what's left of your fish.
Oh okayspiracy, Oh my god, ali inspiracy. There listen, no
one is making this documentary. It's been proven that there's UFOs,

(01:01:58):
and we need you to do a sit down with
the aliens because all right, we'll let you go. Thank
you so much, dude, You're so awesome. Thank you for
being a fake doctor's real friends. Thank you, thank you,
You're amazing, and we'll be back next time with Don't
worry those of you who are mad we didn't do
anything on Scrubs. We'll be back next week with a

(01:02:18):
full Scrubs episode. What episode You're well? Four twenty one,
four twenty one, We'll be back and we'll be doing
that one next Tuesday. Thank you so much for listening.
We love you all. Donald count us out six seven
eight stories about show we made about a bunch of
doctor nurses and stories never so yeada around here, a

(01:02:47):
yeata around here m hm.