July 3, 2024 • 60 mins
In this conversation, the principal themes discussed are the importance of finding a therapist who understands one's cultural background, the dynamics of gender roles in relationships, the need for self-care and self-love, the role of trust in therapy, and overcoming obstacles and achieving goals.
Elliott and Jay discuss the importance of giving oneself grace and focusing on one's accomplishments rather than flaws. They explore the impact of negative thoughts and the need to shift focus to positive aspects of life. They also emphasize the importance of setting boundaries to protect one's energy and mental health.
The episode concludes with a question for listeners to reflect on their achievements and traits that have led to their success. Giving power to the positive evidence available to counter doubt or negative thinking.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It's very common that persons of color struggle with finding
a therapist that looks like them, and they often ask me,
is that a necessity? Meaning if they can't find a
therapist that looks like them, should that be a deal breaker,
And the answer is no. I do think it is
best when you can find a therapist that looks like them,
because therapy, when it's done outside of the recipient of
(00:27):
the therapy's culture, can actually cause cultural ruptures and cause harm.
To give you an example is I cannot explain what
it's like to a non African American what it's like
to be an African American in our society, in our culture,
and I can remember times specifically hearing arguments from people
(00:51):
saying things like, if black people would just listen to
the police officer, they'll stop being shot, and that stuff
causes me great harm and trying to explain why that's
actually not true to someone in my culture is a
very different experience than someone outside of it. So I
(01:13):
don't think it should be a deal breaker, but I
do think it is best. Now if I could give
advice to someone outside of the black culture or outside
of the persons of color culture who needs to provide
therapy to people inside of it, you have to do
two very very important things. Number one, you have to
(01:36):
listen intently to what your client is saying. And number two,
you genuinely have to put yourself in the position where
your client is teaching you about their lived experience without
you judging what that lived experience is, and without you
(01:57):
assessing for truth of that lived experience. I think this
is probably the biggest strength of solution focused brief therapy,
and my biggest critique of psychotherapy traditionally done is in psychotherapy,
traditionally the number one skill the therapist has is their
ability to assess. And as a black man, if I'm
talking to you about what it's like to live in Texas,
(02:20):
in America, in our current state of politics, and in
our current state of social upheaval, I don't want to
be judged or assessed. You just need to allow me
to explain to you what my lived experience is. And
that's not an easily done thing in traditional psychotherapy, but
it's actually woven into the fabric of solution focused brief therapy.
(02:41):
So it's why I think this approach is so strong
and so adequate to work with people of color and
anyone who is not of that culture who needs to
work with people in that culture. That's my advice. Welcome
(03:06):
back to Family Therapy. I'm your host, Elliott Connie, and
as usual, I want to ask you what's been better
since you listened to the previous episode. This is not
just a redundant question that I ask at each episode.
It actually has a purpose, and that is to help
you focus on the things you desire more than the
things you don't. That is the exercise this family went through,
(03:29):
and it's what I want you to go through too.
In this week's episode, Jay mentioned something very important. She
just wants to find safety in her femininity. Jay has
lost trust in David's ability to follow through, so thus
she started like paying bills. And that doesn't mean she's
being more masculine. She's just doing what's necessary. And in
the same way, Jay is a very amazing woman. So like,
(03:55):
let's say she decided, I'm gonna be the bread winner
and I want my husband and slash partner to be
the stay at home dad. People would accuse that stay
at home dad of being feminine, but it's not. She
could out earn many men, So why wouldn't she be
the one that goes out and does the job. She's
more educated than most men. So, like that conversation, whether
(04:16):
we admit it or not, we look up on masculine
energy and look down on feminine energy when it's being
performed by the opposite partner.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
And that's odd.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And I want to kind of explain a little bit
about the context in which we are finding that, because
this becomes a very important part of the dynamic in
Jay's life that is playing itself out. Jay is and
I'm not saying this lightly, This is not hyperbole. She's
literally one of the strongest, most independent women I've ever met,
(04:51):
and I mean that as a compliment. Jay is the
kind of person that when she sees a task needs
to be done, she is capable of doing that task.
And she's been that way for a very long time.
That is not just isolated to how she is in relationships.
It's how she is professionally, it's how she is in business,
(05:13):
it's how she was in the military. She has a
very very strong personality, and people with this level of
strength in their personality in order for her to be soft,
as she referred to it, But for this context, I'm
going to say, like less alpha, she needs to be
around someone that she trusts. If I don't perform the task,
(05:35):
or if I don't pick up the pace, or if
I don't carry the weight, my partner is perfectly capable
of doing it as well. And I think some of
the frustration that has gotten David and Jay into this
current space is Jay not trusting that if I don't
do it, my partner will do it and do it
(05:57):
in an adequate way. So when she's referring to I
want to be in my soft era, she's saying, I
want to see his confidence, his strength, his bravado. I
want to see his alphaness come up so that I
can relax, so that I can be calm, so that
I can be soft, which is a version of herself
(06:18):
that she would like to be more of.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Since our last session, what have you noticed?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
What have I noticed?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (06:34):
I don't know, but I do know.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
In our last session, we talked about the possibility of
me showing up for my partner and I guess expressing
love the way that I like to express love. We
talked about that, and I told you that I would
(06:57):
sit with that idea, and I have to say that.
The request kind of pissed me off because I but
I realized, also, you don't really have a lot of
context of our relationship and you asking me to show
(07:19):
up for him again. It was just like, what, why
would you ask me to do that? And not only why,
but what would be the benefit of me continuing to
give to someone who I feel takes advantage of me.
(07:39):
And when I told you, you know that I was tired.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
You know the relationship has been exhausting for me.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
I didn't feel that you really understood that comment, or
at least didn't place enough weight on what I was expressing.
I did not want to show up for him like
that again, and I do not, and I will not.
There has to be accountability, accountability on his part to
(08:13):
show up in this relationship and love me in the
way that I want to be loved before he gets
the benefits of my love again, I won't. I won't
do that for him. But what I will do is
I'll do it for myself, and I'll do it for
the people that I feel like have been you know,
(08:36):
taking care of me, loving on me. I won't do
it for him. So I think, because like I said,
because you don't know our relationship. That may have been
a reasonable request in your mind, but hell though, no,
not doing that for him, no more until I see
(08:57):
evidence of his ability to to show up for me
in that way.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
So that is.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Basically the boundary that I've put in place when it
comes to us. And you may think, well, I'm cheating myself,
and I would disagree. I'm not cheating myself. I know
how to show him love, I know how to express love.
I've done it so many times for him, so I
know that I'm capable of doing it for him.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Or someone else.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
But what I'm not doing is showing myself that love
and what and That's where I'm trying to get to.
So that's pretty much what I felt when you asked
me that question and what I've thought about as what
I've thought about as far as that request goes.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Okay, And to be clear, I'm not saying that you're
cheating yourself because I don't believe that you. You said
that I didn't have the context. Is there any context
you want to give me?
Speaker 6 (10:01):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
I think without going into specific examples, I've just from
the beginning of our relationship, I've made every effort, at
least in the earlier years, to plan stuff for him
to make him feel special, to make him feel like
(10:30):
an amazing man that I appreciated. I've you know, taken
the time to really organize things for his birthday or
just in general to let him know that he's loved
and that he's important. And those types of plannings and
(10:54):
all of that kind of started to trickle down as
our years went on because I felt like it wasn't
being reciprocated. But what I did do is made sure
that we were good as far as financially. Every house
(11:14):
that we have lived in is one that I have
made happen. So it's it's kind of like, in some ways,
a shift and given him the things that I wanted
to give him versus the giving him the things that
we needed to have as a family. And in that shift,
(11:38):
there's also been this shift of I guess femininity into
a more masculine role.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
You I don't really want you shifting into the more
masculine roles.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
That's what you're saying, yes, And I don't like it here.
I don't want to be I don't want to be
in the masculine I under stand that we are both
all people are. To quote the poet and well renowned
(12:10):
comedian Kat Williams.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
You are not about to about that I am, and
you're not about a poet.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Oh my god, yes, the poet.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
The poet.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I gotta get ready.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Twenty first century poet Kat Williams.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
All right, I gotta get ready. Here we go.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
So it's so deep.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Basically, he said, you know, we we both have a mother,
we both have a father, so inherently we are mixed.
And it sounds so silly and it's simple, but it's true.
We are a mixture of the masculine and the feminine.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
And.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
We there has to be a balance. I don't know
if there has to be a balance, but there is
certainly both of that in us. So we're all mixed.
We all have this, these two parts of us. And
I don't don't feel feminine in our relationship up to
this point, I would say, over the last few years,
(13:08):
because I am the protector, I am the provider, and
I know we live in an age where these these
gender roles are becoming less accepted by the masses. But
to me, those roles make sense, and I don't really.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I want to lean more into my femininity, but I
find it difficult to do that with him.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And then another thing you said was I'm trying to
like love myself, right, can you tell me more about that? Like,
what does loving yourself look like like?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
In your head?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
If you become like really good at loving Jay, how
do you imagine that looks.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
I imagine it would look like me taking care of
myself physically, emotional, spiritually. Like that, I would start prioritizing
my needs and my wants over other people. That I
would start making sure that I'm filling my cup. And
filling my cup looks like going on a trip for
(14:14):
a weekend by myself, which is what I'm doing. So
it would look like me, you know, waking up in
the morning and praying for you know, a few minutes,
meditating for a few minutes, getting my head focused.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
It would look like me.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Exercising on a regular basis and eating healthier foods.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
It would look like possibly.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Getting a hobby or something I don't know, like doing
something that I just enjoy doing for the sake of
doing it and because it makes me happy. It would
look like listening to music more and listening to new
artists more, which is actually something that I've been doing too,
(15:00):
because music has always been a really important part of
my life and it takes me to a place that
makes me feel good. So doing more of that, which
for some reason over the last few years I've done
a lot less of. I mean, COVID played a part
in it, because I did like to use to go
to like concerts and stuff. But even before that, just
(15:21):
you know, not connecting with music was you know, an
indicator to me like something's off here, because there's always
been a part of my life. So doing those types
of things filling my cup and filling my cup first
as much as possible, like, yes, I'm a mom, but
(15:42):
if my cup is full, then I can pour into
them even better than I have been, so yeah, and
then also setting boundaries with people who I feel like
do not appreciate me. That's part of taking care of myself,
you know, telling people and letting them no, like this
this is the buck stops here, Like we're not doing
(16:03):
this no more because it does not feed into me,
it doesn't make me feel good. Really dealing with self
esteem issues and you know, really really digging into that
and figuring out you know, why do I feel the
way that I feel.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Trust in the therapy process is actually the therapist's responsibility,
and they have to continually work at gaining and maintaining
client trust. Now, I'm going to tell you this is
an incredibly difficult thing to do, and it's an incredibly
fragile part of the process, but we have to constantly
work at it. Now, it's not necessary that the therapists
(16:43):
explain what they're observing to the client in real time,
though that might help. It's more important that you keep
performing your job with integrity and honor and continue to
work towards what the client's desired outcome from the therapy is.
It's not uncommon that the client knows what they want
(17:06):
and they think they know how to get there, but
the therapist is the one that is trained and understands
what the healing journey would look like. Now, I don't
say that the therapist ideas get to trump the client's ideas,
but I will say they have to work in collaboration,
and sometimes the therapist is going to be doing things
(17:26):
that the client does not understand, simply because it's not
been a part of their life to participate and facilitate
therapy sessions. But that's our job. I get really irritated
and frustrated with clinicians who think that the client is
supposed to just arbitrarily gift them with trust. It is
our responsibility to earn it. That's a continuous responsibility, and
(17:48):
we have to maintain it. It's fragile and will sometimes
waiver and fluctuate throughout the therapy process, but it's always
our job. Jay really struggles with changing her mindset to
(18:08):
take care of herself. Does this all stem from her childhood?
I actually think it does. Jay has a habit of
not paying as much attention as she should to her
successes and paying a lot of attention to her flaws
and mistakes, and as a consequence, this leads to bouts
of depression and anxiety and insecurities. If Jay were able
(18:33):
to flip that, then the reverse would happen. She'd have
an increase in confidence and an increase of self esteem.
The most likely source of this pattern is the absence
of her father during really critical times in her life,
when most people are being told good job and receiving
other sources of praise, which build up our psyche and
(18:53):
build up our self esteem and make us more resilient
through the life cycle during really critical times. That missing
in Jay's life, and that is a likely contributor to
this pattern. When did it switch? When do you remember
going from active to the less active version of yourself
(19:15):
that you'd rather not be.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Really after my second deployment, because I was dealing with
some pain management that I you know, I was limiting
my ability to deal with or would not deal with,
but to exercise in the way that I wanted to,
(19:44):
and I think I just kind of let that like
I was still active, but not the way that I
was prior to to dealing with some of my injuries
that were kind of increase the pain with the injuries
had increased, and I was going to physical therapy when
(20:05):
I came home. Oh well, when I came back to
the States and didn't feel like that was very effective.
And then when I got home, I was still exercising,
but I was just limited, And I think that just
kind of shifted my mindset into believing that I couldn't
(20:28):
do what I used to do.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
And then.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Shortly after that, after actually getting home, is when I
got pregnant, So then limited in my mind thinking I'm
still limited, but now I'm even more limited because I'm
pregnant and gained weight and all of that. And then
(20:55):
after having my first son, I like I would walk,
but it just wasn't the same, like I like intense workouts,
and I just felt very like, oh, I guess I
can't do this anymore. But I did try in different ways.
(21:16):
I did try, and then I had my second son,
and I actually was probably more consistently active with my
second son than I have been in a long time
because I was really afraid of putting on even more weight.
So and I was working out a lot up until
like maybe like the thirty second week of that pregnancy,
(21:43):
and then after I had my second son and was
just kind of all downhill from there, like I haven't
gotten back into a regular routine. I finally found the gym,
and then I was like, all right, I'm gonna just
take the kids with me to the gym. And I
was doing that for a little bit, and then I
fell off from that and I just have not consistently exercised.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Whether it's.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Whether it's like a pain issue or a motivation discipline issue,
or just like depression, whatever it is, it's like there's
like a lot of blockages and I just haven't gotten
over those hurdles, and it's extremely frustrating.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
So of all the things you've accomplished, like your business success,
your military accomplishments, your academic accomplishments, I have to believe
you know, being an African American woman from New Jersey,
that there were lots of obstacles that you faced on
the way to those things. Would I be right in
(22:48):
thinking that, Yeah, how did you overcome those?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
How did I overcome those obstacles?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:00):
I'm just I just I'm a I'm a big picture
kind of girl. Like I don't really tend to be
affected too much about people's opinions or by people or
different obstacles, like if it's if the mission is clear,
(23:22):
like there's not too many things that are going to
sway me from the mission. Like when I was in
the military, I was an MP, there was a lot
of there's a lot of like I would say, actually
probably more covert sexism than racism.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
But once I.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Was a sergeant, I definitely felt a lot of tension
from some of the younger males, like even Hispanic who
seem to have some difficulties with my leadership. But not really.
(24:06):
It was a lot of it was a lot. It
was a lot The military is a lot, Like there's
a lot to learn. Yeah, there's a lot to learn,
but there's also like the sexism is real, and I
don't you know, people will say no, no, no, but
it really is. It feels like when you're in the
(24:28):
military that men tend to put you into two boxes.
So one you're either going to be someone they want
to fuck and that they're trying to actively pursue, or
someone who they at three boxes, So the second one
would be the bitch, so you are just.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Just a bitch.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Nobody wants to fuck with you because you have a
nasty attitude or you think you are.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
More than what they perceive you to be.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
And then and there's the third category of like you're
just one of the homies, so we see you more
like a brother figure. So I most of the time
I fit into the bitch box. Definitely the first box
as well for some people, but I wasn't there to
have relationships with people like that, so I didn't, you know,
(25:22):
most people didn't. If they thought they was going to
pursue me that way, they quickly, for the most part,
put me into the second box because they knew that
it wasn't going to happen, right. But once you get
into that second box, it's a difficult box to be
in because you want people to you know, follow you.
(25:44):
You want them to be to perceive you as a
good leader. And if they think that you're, you know,
this person that's that's not approachable or not fuckable or
not the homie, then it's like, hmmm, we don't really
deal with her like that, right, you know. So it
(26:07):
was a very interesting experience.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
Now.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Granted, even if you're in that box, though, it's not
that you're necessarily.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Doing anything that makes you a bitch.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
You could probably be doing the exact same things as
your fellow male sergeant, right, But because it's coming from
a woman, that's the box I got to put you in,
you know. So, yeah, it's a lot of things to navigate.
But I just don't get deterred very easily. And maybe
that is the problem now, Like I'm just not seeing
(26:41):
the mission clear, and that's why it's hard for me
to stay focused on, you know, getting healthier, getting stronger,
getting more disciplined. Maybe the mission is just not clear.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I was just about to ask you. It's funny you
say that.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I was just about to ask you what is the
current mission? Because there's a part of you that is completely,
one hundred percent unstoppable. If I want a degree from
Carnegie Mellon, I'm getting it. If I want to achieve
higher ranks in the military, I'm doing it. If I
(27:21):
got to overcome all these obstacles from all these men
wanting to be with me or thinking I'm a bitch,
or whatever it is, I don't care. You literally said,
I'm undeterable. Right, there's a part of you that's just
like so able to accomplish whatever it is you set
your mind to. And it was I really liked how
(27:45):
you said, like, when I see the big picture, I
think your exact phrase was, I'm a big picture kind
of girl, and when I see the mission, I'm unstoppable.
So that begs the obvious question, what is the mission?
Speaker 4 (28:00):
There's I guess there's a few different missions, and maybe
that's the challenge. So there's a mission of building my businesses,
becoming financially stable, being able to pass on something to
my children. There's that mission which I'm pursuing and I'm
(28:20):
getting there. There's a mission of raising my children. I
want them to be healthy, happy, whole and good citizens.
So there's that mission, and I feel like we're getting there.
But when it comes to the mission of jay Len, like,
(28:43):
I know, I want to be healthy. Why because not
being healthy doesn't align with who I want to be, Like,
I don't want to just be someone who is gaining
weight and smoking and sitting around and not having an
(29:06):
active lifestyle. Like how am I going to do that
for a long period of time and be a good mom?
Speaker 5 (29:15):
Like?
Speaker 4 (29:15):
I don't even I mean, I guess I could be,
of course, but I've had children older, so I have
to be physically healthy to be able to keep up
with them, to be here when they have children, and
to be you know, in the right mindset. So you know,
I mean it just it is what it is, Like,
(29:38):
if I don't take care of myself, I'm not going
to be able to be here for them.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
And how often, so would you say that the big
picture or at least a big part of the big
picture of why being fit and taking care of yourself
is because it'll it'll make you feel like a better mom?
Would you say that part of it?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
How often do you think about that.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Like, when you're, you know, waking up in the morning
thinking about your day, how often do you think about,
if I can fit going to the gym into my
day today, it'll make me feel like a better mom.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
I think about it all the time, but it instead
of it motivating me, it just depresses me even more
because I'm not doing it. So it's just like, oh,
I know if I did this, it would make me better,
but then I'm not doing it, so it's like, damn,
you suck, Like what's your problem? You know, Like you
(30:35):
know that the outcome of doing this is good for you,
but you are not doing.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
It to what would help you? Think about it in
a way that triggers that undeterrible part of you. Like,
what's different about the way you think about the big
picture in a way that triggers the undeterable part of
Jay versus the way you think about it when it
kind of depresses you.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
I'm not sure. Sometimes I feel like I just lost
that part of me.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Like if you woke up tomorrow and rediscover that part
of her, how would your life be different?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
I would pursue a more active and healthier lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Other than being a better mom. What else would that
do for you?
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Well, I mean as far as like dealing with depression,
like you, if you're active, it's a lot it's a
lot harder to be depressed. It's a lot harder.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
It's not true. It is impossible, Jay, It's not just
a lot harder. It's impossible to be depressed, right, right, right?
How long has the depression been there? This depression thing
you're talking about, How long has.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
It been there?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I would say probably first deployment.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
It first deployment. What year was that?
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Twenty twelve?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
God, leave, man, that's a long time.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah. I mean.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
I have been diagnosed with PTSD, but I don't think
it really shows up for me and in the ways
that I have it does for some other people.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
So so part.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Of it is like anxiety and certain environments. For a
while it was like sleep issues. But I think a
big part of it was like survirus remorse. So I think, like,
(33:07):
I don't really want to get too deep into it,
but I think a part of it is that you know, wow,
these people, these people didn't make it home, but I did,
and I should be thankful. But it's also like, I
(33:27):
don't know, it just kind of with me.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
How have you lived life carrying this with you for
a decade or a little more than a decade, Like
what have you drawn upon within yourself to carry this
with you for so long?
Speaker 4 (33:48):
In some ways, there's avoidance, like just not not dealing
with it, but also avoidance of the things that make
trigger it, so just not being in a certain environment,
but also I guess just just working on I don't know,
(34:12):
like just not not focusing on it so much, just
trying to, you know, just keep keep moving forward, keep
stay focused. And I don't know, like this may sound
like a crazy thing to say, but I don't feel
like black women really have the opportunity to be fully depressed.
(34:34):
And I know that sounds crazy, but there's so many
things that we have to do, and there's not a
lot of grace that I feel like is given, not
just to black women, women in general, or whatever you
know category you fall into. But for me, speaking from
my experience and who I am, there were things that
(34:56):
I felt like I was dealing with when I was in.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
My first deployment that would.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Just kind of ignored by people who are around me
kind of like fuck her, like she's that, she's that.
But it was like there was no opportunity to kind
of just be dealing with the things that I was
dealing with then. But then even now, it's just like
I don't I cannot fully be depressed. I cannot fully
(35:27):
and I guess it's a good thing, but there's just
like when you can't fully live in what you're experiencing,
you don't ever really fully address it in some ways,
so you just kind of just push it to the
back and you just move forward.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
You just move forward.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
You just move forward.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
But sometimes it becomes too much.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
And you can't really figure out how to move forward anymore,
even though you're still doing a lot, you know, like
I'm still doing a lot of shit, Like I'm still
a homeowner, I'm still a landlord, I'm still a mom,
I'm still you know, working full time. I'm still like
running helping run along and mad like, I'm still doing
all of these things absolutely, but deep down it's like,
(36:11):
how is it. It's not being dealt with, So it
is manifesting into you're not taking curious though you're doing
these things, but you are not taking care of you.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
First of all, what you said does not sound as
crazy as you might think. I actually think it requires
such an amazing amount of strength to be a woman
in our society, and specifically and in particularly a black woman.
And something you said really hit me a bit when
you said, like, society doesn't give us grace. Do you
(36:44):
remember just saying that?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I agree with you. I don't think.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Society gives women of color the same grace that it
gives like cis gender white men for example. Right, how
would help you if you gave yourself the level of
grace that has been held from you by society.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
I mean, I guess in a sense, I just would
be able to be more fully.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Human.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
I think in some ways that I'm kind of like
a workforce.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
So it's just like.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Working, working, producing, producing, But that is not the full
human experience. It's not even part of it. I mean
it's not even like half of it. So I think
with that grace, I get to be fully myself.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I was just gonna say, and how would you notice
yourself giving yourself grace?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Can you ask that question in a different way.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yes, you have a life where you wake up and
you do all of these amazing things. I'm a mom,
I'm a co parent, I'm a homeowner, I work full time,
I run, I help run the laundry mat and just
so many things. And at the end of the day,
(38:12):
you're more upset about what you didn't do than you
are proud of what you did, which is almost like
the defining quality of grace. What would happen if you
started being more proud of what you did do and
less attending to what you didn't.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
Yeah, I don't know, because what I'm not doing is
so important. So I was like, yeah, that stuff is
great too, and it is important, but but what I'm
not doing is also really significant.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
I'm not in any way negating that.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
I think My point is when you attend, and this
is like the basic rule of mentality. One of the
things that's fascinating to me about you, Jay, is the
strength of your mind. It is abnormally strong and leads
to you accomplishing abnormal things. Okay, So one of the
(39:14):
things that stands out to me is if I want
to do and this is true for anybody, It is
true for any human being walking the planet. If I
want to depress, I need to think about the things.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
I'm not good at.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Okay, I need to think about my flaws and my
failures and guess what. Every human being has flaws and failures.
So if I want to feel worse about my life,
just pay attention to my flaws, my failures, the things
about me that aren't great. You have such a powerful mind, Jay,
(39:48):
that when you focus on your flaws and misgivings and failures,
it will lead you down the path towards depression. And
I understand you saying, but Elliott, the things I'm not
doing are really important, and I agree. I'm not negating that,
but I am saying, in order to activate that powerful
mind in a way that leads you towards what you want,
(40:09):
leads you towards the outcome you want to achieve, you've
got to focus on other things, the things that you
are great at, and things that you are enjoying, and
the things that you are proud of. And when you
have more of those, then you mood escalate. And that's
true for everybody. But you're spending a lot of your
time thinking about the things you're not great at, and
(40:30):
that doesn't lead towards awesomeness.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
You know what I mean? Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Yea?
Speaker 1 (40:36):
And what I'm noticing is you're focusing so much more
on your flaws and again, everybody has them, and you're
spending less time thinking about what makes you so magnificent,
and that is actually not only is that the pathway
to taking better care of yourself, that's the pathway to
overcoming PTSD and depression and sadness and all of these
(40:58):
other things. Does that mean sense? So for me, the
question becomes, how do we shift focus of that very
powerful brain from what is flawed to what is brilliant?
Because I'm really determined Jay to shift your focus from
what you aren't doing to who you absolutely actually are,
(41:24):
especially in this conversation. I think this is a pattern
that has started, you know, twelve to thirteen years ago,
and I want to break that pattern because I think
you're just thinking about things that have gone wrong, just
because you habitually are starting to think about things that
have gone wrong that started with the first deployment, And
(41:46):
I want to unlock your ability to think about things
that could go right and how kind of remarkable you
are as a person. Okay, and you said something earlier
that's really powerful, like like it's harder to feel bad
when you're taking care of yourself, and that's absolutely not true.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
It's impossible you have achieved in every space you've ever
stepped into. Do you ever realize that?
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Yeah, I didn't realize that, and I was like, damn,
that's actually that's true, and not to like bring myself up,
but like I have no I don't know if I'm
like trying to.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Take yourself up, don't steal that back, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
Like, but that's what makes this so frustrating, because it's like, bro,
you have zero evidence that you are going to fill
if you take care of yourself, Like there's no evidence
to support it.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Like, so what is the problem.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
Maybe I'm just scared. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
No, I think we just identified the problem. I think
that habit. I think it's just become a habit, and
habits really you can form. Here's the thing about.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Habits day is we will have a habit that doesn't
work for us, but we do it just because it's
a habit, you know what I mean, Like, we don't.
When I say we, I mean as humans, we don't
always do a great job of being Like, but does
this habit move me closer to the outcome I want
to achieve? And I think you've been doing this particular
(43:16):
habit for a decade plus, even though it's not a
habit moving you towards what you hope to achieve.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (43:27):
So now I'm saying, let's pause for a second and
be like, wait a minute, let's create a new habit
that does move us in the direction what we want
to achieve. And part of doing that is giving yourself
grace and just taking a step back and being like,
I got to remind myself who Jay is. And even
though I know you haven't forgotten all your amazing accomplishments,
all those things, but we got to put them in
(43:48):
the forefront. We're got to make you stare at them,
because quite frankly, they're more important than your failures. I
think the biggest trait or characteristic to healthy self esteem
is when you have the ability to look in your
history for evidence of your successes and allow that to
(44:09):
contribute to how you view yourself. No one is perfect,
I want to be very clear about that. So no
one is going to look in their history and just
think they've done everything right. But people with really healthy
self esteem understand I have to accept my flaws, and
I have the ability to look in my past find
evidence of my greatness of my successes, of the things
(44:32):
that make me positive, and I can use those things
to contribute to how I view myself in spite of
my flaws. People who struggle with their self esteem, they
have a tendency to look in their past and only
see their flaws and only see their mistakes, and then
in the current state, think that they are flawed and
(44:53):
think that they are problematic, and think that they are
not worthy. If you can flip that and find evidence
of your successes, find evidence of what makes you great,
find evidence of the positive traits about you while accepting
your flaws, then you will have healthy self esteatement. What
(45:17):
difference do you think it would make for you to
be discovering like, I'm not as bad as I make
myself out to be in my head.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
Oh, I mean, I guess I'll make a huge difference.
I think when you are questioning yourself or doubting yourself,
you have to look at the evidence of your life
and say, does the evidence support what I'm feeling? And
(45:50):
not to say that what you feel may not be
real for you at that moment, But when you come
back to reality and you you know you look at
the circumstances of your life, and you say, well, I
know I'm feeling pretty low. I know I'm feeling pretty bad,
but look at what I've done.
Speaker 5 (46:10):
You know, I've done this, I've done X, I've done Y.
I've gotten over these hurdles throughout my life.
Speaker 4 (46:18):
So you know, maybe I am strong, maybe I am resilient,
maybe I am beautiful or whatever it is that you
know you're trying to knock yourself from not being when
you look back at the past, you say, there's really
no evidence to support this thinking. So the thinking is
(46:39):
the flaw. You know it's not it's not true. So
how do you you know you use that to kind
of shift your mind from from this sinking thinking thoughts?
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Jay, So, I don't think any human being has ever
said anything ever that I agree with more than what
you just said. If I have a doubting thought, if
I just look at the evidence of my life to say,
is this doubting thought I've had, is this kind of
(47:14):
down thought I've had, Is this self loathing thought I've had?
Is there any evidence to it? And when you see
that there's not, then you'd be like, well, maybe I
am smart, strong, beautiful, resilience thought? Is that what I
heard you say?
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (47:31):
So what difference will it make in your life when
that becomes a habit for you? When it's like, all right,
when I have a negative thought, I take a minute,
I take a second, I pause, and I look in
my past to see is there any evidence justifying this
(47:51):
negative thought? And then you find that there's not. What
difference will that make in your life when that becomes
a habit for you?
Speaker 4 (48:08):
When you ask that question, I always find it. I
find it such a weird question.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
How come?
Speaker 4 (48:18):
Because the answer seems so intuitive that I feel like
I don't know if I'm giving you the answer that
you're looking for or if I'm thinking about it in
the way that you want me to think about it.
Because I mean, naturally, I would just say it would
make a huge difference.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
It would be better, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
But I just feel like maybe I'm missing something when
he's asking me that question.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Because no, well can I I can even I can
provide more clarity and maybe ask it a different way,
right because and I don't mean to sound overly hyperbolic
with this point, but I do mean this, if more
people did what you just said, there'd be a significant
(49:00):
less need for therapists.
Speaker 5 (49:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
One of the reasons why we struggle is we're very
good at thinking a negative thought about ourselves and then
just automatically believing that negative thought is true, whatever that
negative thought might be, Like I'm bad at basketball, so
thus I don't want to go to the park, Like
we don't even think. But wait a minute, I've played
on my high school team. I played, and you know
what I mean. Like, we don't do the exact examination
(49:25):
you said, reviewing history to see if the evidence of
that thing is true. We literally just have a negative
thought and then we behave as if that negative thought
were true. So the thing that you just said is
a powerful and important thing. There's a lot of stuff
in your history. You have all kinds of degrees. You
have turned yourself into a successful business person while being
(49:50):
an amazing mod Like, there's a lot of history that
would counter a negative thought. And most people have history
that would count a negative thought, they just don't access.
So when I say what difference would that make, I'm
asking what I'm wondering is like, in what specific ways
might your life change if you adopted this habit of
(50:10):
Like I just had a negative thought. But hold on,
I'm going to look in my past to see where's
the evidence of this negative thought. Because if there's no
evidence of this negative thought, I get to keep thinking
myself is pretty awesome.
Speaker 4 (50:23):
Right yeah, I mean again, I just feel like, yeah,
we'll be better, We'll be better. I don't know, it
would make a difference, it would be a positive difference.
And I think for me, the challenge is I know
it would be better. I know that this is a
(50:46):
type of way that I should approach these types of thoughts.
The challenge is doing that thing, doing it, you know, doing.
Speaker 5 (50:59):
Doing this can consistently.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
If I had an amount of money to wager that
was meaningful, not just a little bit of money, but
a meaningful amount of money, and someone bet me will
Jay figure this out? I would confidently say yes, she will,
and I would confidently bet my money on it. And
what would give me confidence is you figure everything else
out up until this point, right and you know you've
(51:25):
always heard the phrase, or people always heard the phrase.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
I don't know if you've heard it.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. So
if this person consistently figures out why wouldn't I Why
wouldn't I confidently assume she'll figure the next thing out,
whether that's you know, success in the real estate industry
or getting back to exercising, or getting her confidence back, Like,
(51:51):
whatever it is, I would, I would play so a
meaningful amount of money on you would accomplish it because
you habitually solve things.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
That's that's kind of what you do.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
True story.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
If I could do one thing in your life, it
would be to remind you of that and keep that
on your mind. Like if going through this process, Jay
did one thing, I hope it would remind you. Like
when you look in the mirror, you're looking at kind
of a badass woman who has a habit of functioning
(52:27):
at a real high level. Like that's that's just your habit.
It's just what you do. You bubble to the top.
But it's important to me that when you look at yourself,
you see someone that habitually accomplishes greatness.
Speaker 3 (52:42):
Spitting bars over there.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Spitting bars about you. These are bars you gave me
in my time.
Speaker 4 (52:52):
Of knowing, Yeah, you're right, I just gotta I gotta
get back to that, to that mindset for sure.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
You know that you know The easiest way to get
back to that mindset, Jay, what's that?
Speaker 2 (53:08):
To pay attention to it.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Yeah, the old adage is one thousand percent true. Whatever
you pay attention to grows. So if I pay attention
to why aren't I that person anymore? What the heck
is wrong with me? Why am I said? Then that
actually grows. But if you pay attention to how did
(53:33):
I become so awesome? What is it that allows me
to take these kind of risks. Most people don't figure
out how to make their first investment? How did I
do that? Then that is what grows. So the fastest
pathway to the kind of transformation that we're talking about
is to simply notice it, to simply wake up every
(53:53):
day and say, I'm going to pay really close attention
to what makes me great, and I'm going to notice
that sparkle happening. I'm gonna notice myself instead of paying
attention to how stuck I am, I'm going to pay
attention to it, how I've built this little life raft
of an investment career, and really pay attention to that
(54:13):
life raft that you built. That's the best way to
kind of reactivate that part of you. Because every time
I talk to you. I see this woman that anybody
would admire, and I'm not sure you admire you. And
that's the transformation that has the change you need to
(54:34):
admire you. You're very easy to respect, you're very easy
to brag about. You're very easy to admire. But I
don't think you see what everybody else around you sees.
It's time you start giving yourself credit.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Jay, You're right. You have to make me cry?
Speaker 2 (54:53):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (54:56):
Because you're right? And it's like, at some point, you know,
you gotta regardless of how I got to this point
and this way of thinking, it's like, at what point
are you going to stop? You know, at what point
are you going to let it go? And you know,
(55:18):
you just gotta, you gotta, you gotta take action. You
gotta do something different. And and I see it, you know,
I see it clear as day.
Speaker 3 (55:31):
It's just just getting it my own way.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yeah, you know, the.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
How you got into a different mindset is completely irrelevant.
The only thing that's relevant is transforming it. And the
best way to transform it is to simply pay attention
to it.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
It's to simply pay attention to it.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
So my friend, Jay, Yes, are we on a new
mission now?
Speaker 3 (56:14):
Yeah, yeah, we are.
Speaker 6 (56:16):
We are.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
I think it's incredibly important that people set boundaries to
protect their energy and their mental health. When people ask
me what is the biggest threat to mental health, people
think that I'm going to say things like addiction, anxiety, depression,
But it's actually not respecting your energy and not setting
up boundaries in your life to protect them. I can't
(56:40):
tell you how many times I see people that are
really really stretched thin and then someone asks them, hey,
do you want to like hang out and do this
social thing on the weekend, When it's like, you know,
you need to say no and take care of yourself. Now,
some people they need isolated time to rejuvenate. Other people
(57:01):
they need social time to rejuvenate. But you need to
make choices that honor your energy and protect your mental health.
There are certain people that when you're around them, it
becomes a threat to your energy and mental health, and
others it becomes an asset to your energy and mental health.
You've got to make choices that honor that. Since in
(57:21):
this session, we highlighted Jay's pattern of looking in her
history and finding flaws and the consequences of that pattern,
I know there are many people out there listening to
this episode that also struggle with that. So what I
would like you to do is get a piece of
paper or an iPad, whatever it does, you write on,
and I want you to write down ten achievements you've
(57:44):
made in your life. I don't care if they're huge
achievements like you've done big massive things, or even small
wins like you know you lost five pounds when you
wanted to. Whatever it is, just write down ten accomplishments
that you had to put forth even a little effort
into make successful and make happen. And then for each
of those ten, I want you to find two traits
that you have within you that allowed you to achieve
(58:08):
those ten things. Now, the positive thing that will come
from this, it's going to force your brain to do
an incredibly important thing, and that is take credit for
your successes. We have a tendency to we accept blame
for what went wrong, but we think that our successes
are just random or luck. I want you to take
(58:28):
as much credit for your successes as you take blame
for your flaws. And when you do that, it will
transform your mental health, your self esteem, and your confidence.
This is not just a podcast that I want you
to consume and be entertained by. I actually want you
to be inspired. I want you to be impacted by this,
(58:50):
and in fact, we can't help but be impacted by
the content we consume. So what I would like for
you to do is come on this healing journey with us.
Come on this journey of change rediscovery with us.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
And the way to do.
Speaker 1 (59:04):
That is to just pay attention to the things going
on in your life as a consequence of listening to
this podcast. Pay attention to things in your life shifting
in a more desirable way. Pay attention to your desirable
outcome becoming your reality. Pay attention to evidence of your success,
your resilience, and your strength.
Speaker 2 (59:23):
And let us know in the comments.
Speaker 1 (59:25):
What you're noticing in your life as a result of
listening to this podcast and as a result of paying
attention to these things. I would love to hear from
you about your healing journey, your family, and your feedback.
Leave a review, send a DM, connect with me on
socials at Elliott Speaks, and you can also send me
a text message to nine seventy two four two six
(59:45):
two six four zero. Family Therapy is a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Podcast Network special thanks to
our assistant Glendale Sepe. It's produced by Jack Queish Thomas
and the executive producer Dolly S.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
S Fisher.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
For more podcasts from The Black Effect, visit the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The
content presented on the Family Therapy Podcast serves solely for
educational and informational purposes. It should not be considered a
replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does
not constitute a provider antient relationship. It is advisable to
consult with your healthcare provider or health team for any
(01:00:21):
specific concerns or questions you may have
It's very common that persons of color struggle with finding
a therapist that looks like them, and they often ask me,
is that a necessity? Meaning if they can't find a
therapist that looks like them, should that be a deal breaker,
And the answer is no. I do think it is
best when you can find a therapist that looks like them,
because therapy, when it's done outside of the recipient of
(00:27):
the therapy's culture, can actually cause cultural ruptures and cause harm.
To give you an example is I cannot explain what
it's like to a non African American what it's like
to be an African American in our society, in our culture,
and I can remember times specifically hearing arguments from people
(00:51):
saying things like, if black people would just listen to
the police officer, they'll stop being shot, and that stuff
causes me great harm and trying to explain why that's
actually not true to someone in my culture is a
very different experience than someone outside of it. So I
(01:13):
don't think it should be a deal breaker, but I
do think it is best. Now if I could give
advice to someone outside of the black culture or outside
of the persons of color culture who needs to provide
therapy to people inside of it, you have to do
two very very important things. Number one, you have to
(01:36):
listen intently to what your client is saying. And number two,
you genuinely have to put yourself in the position where
your client is teaching you about their lived experience without
you judging what that lived experience is, and without you
(01:57):
assessing for truth of that lived experience. I think this
is probably the biggest strength of solution focused brief therapy,
and my biggest critique of psychotherapy traditionally done is in psychotherapy,
traditionally the number one skill the therapist has is their
ability to assess. And as a black man, if I'm
talking to you about what it's like to live in Texas,
(02:20):
in America, in our current state of politics, and in
our current state of social upheaval, I don't want to
be judged or assessed. You just need to allow me
to explain to you what my lived experience is. And
that's not an easily done thing in traditional psychotherapy, but
it's actually woven into the fabric of solution focused brief therapy.
(02:41):
So it's why I think this approach is so strong
and so adequate to work with people of color and
anyone who is not of that culture who needs to
work with people in that culture. That's my advice. Welcome
(03:06):
back to Family Therapy. I'm your host, Elliott Connie, and
as usual, I want to ask you what's been better
since you listened to the previous episode. This is not
just a redundant question that I ask at each episode.
It actually has a purpose, and that is to help
you focus on the things you desire more than the
things you don't. That is the exercise this family went through,
(03:29):
and it's what I want you to go through too.
In this week's episode, Jay mentioned something very important. She
just wants to find safety in her femininity. Jay has
lost trust in David's ability to follow through, so thus
she started like paying bills. And that doesn't mean she's
being more masculine. She's just doing what's necessary. And in
the same way, Jay is a very amazing woman. So like,
(03:55):
let's say she decided, I'm gonna be the bread winner
and I want my husband and slash partner to be
the stay at home dad. People would accuse that stay
at home dad of being feminine, but it's not. She
could out earn many men, So why wouldn't she be
the one that goes out and does the job. She's
more educated than most men. So, like that conversation, whether
(04:16):
we admit it or not, we look up on masculine
energy and look down on feminine energy when it's being
performed by the opposite partner.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
And that's odd.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
And I want to kind of explain a little bit
about the context in which we are finding that, because
this becomes a very important part of the dynamic in
Jay's life that is playing itself out. Jay is and
I'm not saying this lightly, This is not hyperbole. She's
literally one of the strongest, most independent women I've ever met,
(04:51):
and I mean that as a compliment. Jay is the
kind of person that when she sees a task needs
to be done, she is capable of doing that task.
And she's been that way for a very long time.
That is not just isolated to how she is in relationships.
It's how she is professionally, it's how she is in business,
(05:13):
it's how she was in the military. She has a
very very strong personality, and people with this level of
strength in their personality in order for her to be soft,
as she referred to it, But for this context, I'm
going to say, like less alpha, she needs to be
around someone that she trusts. If I don't perform the task,
(05:35):
or if I don't pick up the pace, or if
I don't carry the weight, my partner is perfectly capable
of doing it as well. And I think some of
the frustration that has gotten David and Jay into this
current space is Jay not trusting that if I don't
do it, my partner will do it and do it
(05:57):
in an adequate way. So when she's referring to I
want to be in my soft era, she's saying, I
want to see his confidence, his strength, his bravado. I
want to see his alphaness come up so that I
can relax, so that I can be calm, so that
I can be soft, which is a version of herself
(06:18):
that she would like to be more of.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Since our last session, what have you noticed?
Speaker 3 (06:32):
What have I noticed?
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (06:34):
I don't know, but I do know.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
In our last session, we talked about the possibility of
me showing up for my partner and I guess expressing
love the way that I like to express love. We
talked about that, and I told you that I would
(06:57):
sit with that idea, and I have to say that.
The request kind of pissed me off because I but
I realized, also, you don't really have a lot of
context of our relationship and you asking me to show
(07:19):
up for him again. It was just like, what, why
would you ask me to do that? And not only why,
but what would be the benefit of me continuing to
give to someone who I feel takes advantage of me.
(07:39):
And when I told you, you know that I was tired.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
You know the relationship has been exhausting for me.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
I didn't feel that you really understood that comment, or
at least didn't place enough weight on what I was expressing.
I did not want to show up for him like
that again, and I do not, and I will not.
There has to be accountability, accountability on his part to
(08:13):
show up in this relationship and love me in the
way that I want to be loved before he gets
the benefits of my love again, I won't. I won't
do that for him. But what I will do is
I'll do it for myself, and I'll do it for
the people that I feel like have been you know,
(08:36):
taking care of me, loving on me. I won't do
it for him. So I think, because like I said,
because you don't know our relationship. That may have been
a reasonable request in your mind, but hell though, no,
not doing that for him, no more until I see
(08:57):
evidence of his ability to to show up for me
in that way.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
So that is.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Basically the boundary that I've put in place when it
comes to us. And you may think, well, I'm cheating myself,
and I would disagree. I'm not cheating myself. I know
how to show him love, I know how to express love.
I've done it so many times for him, so I
know that I'm capable of doing it for him.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Or someone else.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
But what I'm not doing is showing myself that love
and what and That's where I'm trying to get to.
So that's pretty much what I felt when you asked
me that question and what I've thought about as what
I've thought about as far as that request goes.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Okay, And to be clear, I'm not saying that you're
cheating yourself because I don't believe that you. You said
that I didn't have the context. Is there any context
you want to give me?
Speaker 6 (10:01):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
I think without going into specific examples, I've just from
the beginning of our relationship, I've made every effort, at
least in the earlier years, to plan stuff for him
to make him feel special, to make him feel like
(10:30):
an amazing man that I appreciated. I've you know, taken
the time to really organize things for his birthday or
just in general to let him know that he's loved
and that he's important. And those types of plannings and
(10:54):
all of that kind of started to trickle down as
our years went on because I felt like it wasn't
being reciprocated. But what I did do is made sure
that we were good as far as financially. Every house
(11:14):
that we have lived in is one that I have
made happen. So it's it's kind of like, in some ways,
a shift and given him the things that I wanted
to give him versus the giving him the things that
we needed to have as a family. And in that shift,
(11:38):
there's also been this shift of I guess femininity into
a more masculine role.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
You I don't really want you shifting into the more
masculine roles.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
That's what you're saying, yes, And I don't like it here.
I don't want to be I don't want to be
in the masculine I under stand that we are both
all people are. To quote the poet and well renowned
(12:10):
comedian Kat Williams.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
You are not about to about that I am, and
you're not about a poet.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Oh my god, yes, the poet.
Speaker 5 (12:19):
The poet.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I gotta get ready.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Twenty first century poet Kat Williams.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
All right, I gotta get ready. Here we go.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
So it's so deep.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Basically, he said, you know, we we both have a mother,
we both have a father, so inherently we are mixed.
And it sounds so silly and it's simple, but it's true.
We are a mixture of the masculine and the feminine.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
And.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
We there has to be a balance. I don't know
if there has to be a balance, but there is
certainly both of that in us. So we're all mixed.
We all have this, these two parts of us. And
I don't don't feel feminine in our relationship up to
this point, I would say, over the last few years,
(13:08):
because I am the protector, I am the provider, and
I know we live in an age where these these
gender roles are becoming less accepted by the masses. But
to me, those roles make sense, and I don't really.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I want to lean more into my femininity, but I
find it difficult to do that with him.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And then another thing you said was I'm trying to
like love myself, right, can you tell me more about that? Like,
what does loving yourself look like like?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
In your head?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
If you become like really good at loving Jay, how
do you imagine that looks.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
I imagine it would look like me taking care of
myself physically, emotional, spiritually. Like that, I would start prioritizing
my needs and my wants over other people. That I
would start making sure that I'm filling my cup. And
filling my cup looks like going on a trip for
(14:14):
a weekend by myself, which is what I'm doing. So
it would look like me, you know, waking up in
the morning and praying for you know, a few minutes,
meditating for a few minutes, getting my head focused.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
It would look like me.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Exercising on a regular basis and eating healthier foods.
Speaker 5 (14:37):
It would look like possibly.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Getting a hobby or something I don't know, like doing
something that I just enjoy doing for the sake of
doing it and because it makes me happy. It would
look like listening to music more and listening to new
artists more, which is actually something that I've been doing too,
(15:00):
because music has always been a really important part of
my life and it takes me to a place that
makes me feel good. So doing more of that, which
for some reason over the last few years I've done
a lot less of. I mean, COVID played a part
in it, because I did like to use to go
to like concerts and stuff. But even before that, just
(15:21):
you know, not connecting with music was you know, an
indicator to me like something's off here, because there's always
been a part of my life. So doing those types
of things filling my cup and filling my cup first
as much as possible, like, yes, I'm a mom, but
(15:42):
if my cup is full, then I can pour into
them even better than I have been, so yeah, and
then also setting boundaries with people who I feel like
do not appreciate me. That's part of taking care of myself,
you know, telling people and letting them no, like this
this is the buck stops here, Like we're not doing
(16:03):
this no more because it does not feed into me,
it doesn't make me feel good. Really dealing with self
esteem issues and you know, really really digging into that
and figuring out you know, why do I feel the
way that I feel.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Trust in the therapy process is actually the therapist's responsibility,
and they have to continually work at gaining and maintaining
client trust. Now, I'm going to tell you this is
an incredibly difficult thing to do, and it's an incredibly
fragile part of the process, but we have to constantly
work at it. Now, it's not necessary that the therapists
(16:43):
explain what they're observing to the client in real time,
though that might help. It's more important that you keep
performing your job with integrity and honor and continue to
work towards what the client's desired outcome from the therapy is.
It's not uncommon that the client knows what they want
(17:06):
and they think they know how to get there, but
the therapist is the one that is trained and understands
what the healing journey would look like. Now, I don't
say that the therapist ideas get to trump the client's ideas,
but I will say they have to work in collaboration,
and sometimes the therapist is going to be doing things
(17:26):
that the client does not understand, simply because it's not
been a part of their life to participate and facilitate
therapy sessions. But that's our job. I get really irritated
and frustrated with clinicians who think that the client is
supposed to just arbitrarily gift them with trust. It is
our responsibility to earn it. That's a continuous responsibility, and
(17:48):
we have to maintain it. It's fragile and will sometimes
waiver and fluctuate throughout the therapy process, but it's always
our job. Jay really struggles with changing her mindset to
(18:08):
take care of herself. Does this all stem from her childhood?
I actually think it does. Jay has a habit of
not paying as much attention as she should to her
successes and paying a lot of attention to her flaws
and mistakes, and as a consequence, this leads to bouts
of depression and anxiety and insecurities. If Jay were able
(18:33):
to flip that, then the reverse would happen. She'd have
an increase in confidence and an increase of self esteem.
The most likely source of this pattern is the absence
of her father during really critical times in her life,
when most people are being told good job and receiving
other sources of praise, which build up our psyche and
(18:53):
build up our self esteem and make us more resilient
through the life cycle during really critical times. That missing
in Jay's life, and that is a likely contributor to
this pattern. When did it switch? When do you remember
going from active to the less active version of yourself
(19:15):
that you'd rather not be.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
Really after my second deployment, because I was dealing with
some pain management that I you know, I was limiting
my ability to deal with or would not deal with,
but to exercise in the way that I wanted to,
(19:44):
and I think I just kind of let that like
I was still active, but not the way that I
was prior to to dealing with some of my injuries
that were kind of increase the pain with the injuries
had increased, and I was going to physical therapy when
(20:05):
I came home. Oh well, when I came back to
the States and didn't feel like that was very effective.
And then when I got home, I was still exercising,
but I was just limited, And I think that just
kind of shifted my mindset into believing that I couldn't
(20:28):
do what I used to do.
Speaker 6 (20:32):
And then.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Shortly after that, after actually getting home, is when I
got pregnant, So then limited in my mind thinking I'm
still limited, but now I'm even more limited because I'm
pregnant and gained weight and all of that. And then
(20:55):
after having my first son, I like I would walk,
but it just wasn't the same, like I like intense workouts,
and I just felt very like, oh, I guess I
can't do this anymore. But I did try in different ways.
(21:16):
I did try, and then I had my second son,
and I actually was probably more consistently active with my
second son than I have been in a long time
because I was really afraid of putting on even more weight.
So and I was working out a lot up until
like maybe like the thirty second week of that pregnancy,
(21:43):
and then after I had my second son and was
just kind of all downhill from there, like I haven't
gotten back into a regular routine. I finally found the gym,
and then I was like, all right, I'm gonna just
take the kids with me to the gym. And I
was doing that for a little bit, and then I
fell off from that and I just have not consistently exercised.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Whether it's.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Whether it's like a pain issue or a motivation discipline issue,
or just like depression, whatever it is, it's like there's
like a lot of blockages and I just haven't gotten
over those hurdles, and it's extremely frustrating.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
So of all the things you've accomplished, like your business success,
your military accomplishments, your academic accomplishments, I have to believe
you know, being an African American woman from New Jersey,
that there were lots of obstacles that you faced on
the way to those things. Would I be right in
(22:48):
thinking that, Yeah, how did you overcome those?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
How did I overcome those obstacles?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (23:00):
I'm just I just I'm a I'm a big picture
kind of girl. Like I don't really tend to be
affected too much about people's opinions or by people or
different obstacles, like if it's if the mission is clear,
(23:22):
like there's not too many things that are going to
sway me from the mission. Like when I was in
the military, I was an MP, there was a lot
of there's a lot of like I would say, actually
probably more covert sexism than racism.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
But once I.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Was a sergeant, I definitely felt a lot of tension
from some of the younger males, like even Hispanic who
seem to have some difficulties with my leadership. But not really.
(24:06):
It was a lot of it was a lot. It
was a lot The military is a lot, Like there's
a lot to learn. Yeah, there's a lot to learn,
but there's also like the sexism is real, and I
don't you know, people will say no, no, no, but
it really is. It feels like when you're in the
(24:28):
military that men tend to put you into two boxes.
So one you're either going to be someone they want
to fuck and that they're trying to actively pursue, or
someone who they at three boxes, So the second one
would be the bitch, so you are just.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Just a bitch.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Nobody wants to fuck with you because you have a
nasty attitude or you think you are.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
More than what they perceive you to be.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
And then and there's the third category of like you're
just one of the homies, so we see you more
like a brother figure. So I most of the time
I fit into the bitch box. Definitely the first box
as well for some people, but I wasn't there to
have relationships with people like that, so I didn't, you know,
(25:22):
most people didn't. If they thought they was going to
pursue me that way, they quickly, for the most part,
put me into the second box because they knew that
it wasn't going to happen, right. But once you get
into that second box, it's a difficult box to be
in because you want people to you know, follow you.
(25:44):
You want them to be to perceive you as a
good leader. And if they think that you're, you know,
this person that's that's not approachable or not fuckable or
not the homie, then it's like, hmmm, we don't really
deal with her like that, right, you know. So it
(26:07):
was a very interesting experience.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
Now.
Speaker 4 (26:13):
Granted, even if you're in that box, though, it's not
that you're necessarily.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Doing anything that makes you a bitch.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
You could probably be doing the exact same things as
your fellow male sergeant, right, But because it's coming from
a woman, that's the box I got to put you in,
you know. So, yeah, it's a lot of things to navigate.
But I just don't get deterred very easily. And maybe
that is the problem now, Like I'm just not seeing
(26:41):
the mission clear, and that's why it's hard for me
to stay focused on, you know, getting healthier, getting stronger,
getting more disciplined. Maybe the mission is just not clear.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I was just about to ask you. It's funny you
say that.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I was just about to ask you what is the
current mission? Because there's a part of you that is completely,
one hundred percent unstoppable. If I want a degree from
Carnegie Mellon, I'm getting it. If I want to achieve
higher ranks in the military, I'm doing it. If I
(27:21):
got to overcome all these obstacles from all these men
wanting to be with me or thinking I'm a bitch,
or whatever it is, I don't care. You literally said,
I'm undeterable. Right, there's a part of you that's just
like so able to accomplish whatever it is you set
your mind to. And it was I really liked how
(27:45):
you said, like, when I see the big picture, I
think your exact phrase was, I'm a big picture kind
of girl, and when I see the mission, I'm unstoppable.
So that begs the obvious question, what is the mission?
Speaker 4 (28:00):
There's I guess there's a few different missions, and maybe
that's the challenge. So there's a mission of building my businesses,
becoming financially stable, being able to pass on something to
my children. There's that mission which I'm pursuing and I'm
(28:20):
getting there. There's a mission of raising my children. I
want them to be healthy, happy, whole and good citizens.
So there's that mission, and I feel like we're getting there.
But when it comes to the mission of jay Len, like,
(28:43):
I know, I want to be healthy. Why because not
being healthy doesn't align with who I want to be, Like,
I don't want to just be someone who is gaining
weight and smoking and sitting around and not having an
(29:06):
active lifestyle. Like how am I going to do that
for a long period of time and be a good mom?
Speaker 5 (29:15):
Like?
Speaker 4 (29:15):
I don't even I mean, I guess I could be,
of course, but I've had children older, so I have
to be physically healthy to be able to keep up
with them, to be here when they have children, and
to be you know, in the right mindset. So you know,
I mean it just it is what it is, Like,
(29:38):
if I don't take care of myself, I'm not going
to be able to be here for them.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
And how often, so would you say that the big
picture or at least a big part of the big
picture of why being fit and taking care of yourself
is because it'll it'll make you feel like a better mom?
Would you say that part of it?
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
How often do you think about that.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Like, when you're, you know, waking up in the morning
thinking about your day, how often do you think about,
if I can fit going to the gym into my
day today, it'll make me feel like a better mom.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
I think about it all the time, but it instead
of it motivating me, it just depresses me even more
because I'm not doing it. So it's just like, oh,
I know if I did this, it would make me better,
but then I'm not doing it, so it's like, damn,
you suck, Like what's your problem? You know, Like you
(30:35):
know that the outcome of doing this is good for you,
but you are not doing.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
It to what would help you? Think about it in
a way that triggers that undeterrible part of you. Like,
what's different about the way you think about the big
picture in a way that triggers the undeterable part of
Jay versus the way you think about it when it
kind of depresses you.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
I'm not sure. Sometimes I feel like I just lost
that part of me.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Like if you woke up tomorrow and rediscover that part
of her, how would your life be different?
Speaker 4 (31:13):
I would pursue a more active and healthier lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Other than being a better mom. What else would that
do for you?
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Well, I mean as far as like dealing with depression,
like you, if you're active, it's a lot it's a
lot harder to be depressed. It's a lot harder.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
It's not true. It is impossible, Jay, It's not just
a lot harder. It's impossible to be depressed, right, right, right?
How long has the depression been there? This depression thing
you're talking about, How long has.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
It been there?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I would say probably first deployment.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
It first deployment. What year was that?
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Twenty twelve?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
God, leave, man, that's a long time.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yeah. I mean.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
I have been diagnosed with PTSD, but I don't think
it really shows up for me and in the ways
that I have it does for some other people.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
So so part.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Of it is like anxiety and certain environments. For a
while it was like sleep issues. But I think a
big part of it was like survirus remorse. So I think, like,
(33:07):
I don't really want to get too deep into it,
but I think a part of it is that you know, wow,
these people, these people didn't make it home, but I did,
and I should be thankful. But it's also like, I
(33:27):
don't know, it just kind of with me.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
How have you lived life carrying this with you for
a decade or a little more than a decade, Like
what have you drawn upon within yourself to carry this
with you for so long?
Speaker 4 (33:48):
In some ways, there's avoidance, like just not not dealing
with it, but also avoidance of the things that make
trigger it, so just not being in a certain environment,
but also I guess just just working on I don't know,
(34:12):
like just not not focusing on it so much, just
trying to, you know, just keep keep moving forward, keep
stay focused. And I don't know, like this may sound
like a crazy thing to say, but I don't feel
like black women really have the opportunity to be fully depressed.
(34:34):
And I know that sounds crazy, but there's so many
things that we have to do, and there's not a
lot of grace that I feel like is given, not
just to black women, women in general, or whatever you
know category you fall into. But for me, speaking from
my experience and who I am, there were things that
(34:56):
I felt like I was dealing with when I was in.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
My first deployment that would.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
Just kind of ignored by people who are around me
kind of like fuck her, like she's that, she's that.
But it was like there was no opportunity to kind
of just be dealing with the things that I was
dealing with then. But then even now, it's just like
I don't I cannot fully be depressed. I cannot fully
(35:27):
and I guess it's a good thing, but there's just
like when you can't fully live in what you're experiencing,
you don't ever really fully address it in some ways,
so you just kind of just push it to the
back and you just move forward.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
You just move forward.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
You just move forward.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
But sometimes it becomes too much.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
And you can't really figure out how to move forward anymore,
even though you're still doing a lot, you know, like
I'm still doing a lot of shit, Like I'm still
a homeowner, I'm still a landlord, I'm still a mom,
I'm still you know, working full time. I'm still like
running helping run along and mad like, I'm still doing
all of these things absolutely, but deep down it's like,
(36:11):
how is it. It's not being dealt with, So it
is manifesting into you're not taking curious though you're doing
these things, but you are not taking care of you.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
First of all, what you said does not sound as
crazy as you might think. I actually think it requires
such an amazing amount of strength to be a woman
in our society, and specifically and in particularly a black woman.
And something you said really hit me a bit when
you said, like, society doesn't give us grace. Do you
(36:44):
remember just saying that?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I agree with you. I don't think.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Society gives women of color the same grace that it
gives like cis gender white men for example. Right, how
would help you if you gave yourself the level of
grace that has been held from you by society.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
I mean, I guess in a sense, I just would
be able to be more fully.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Human.
Speaker 4 (37:17):
I think in some ways that I'm kind of like
a workforce.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
So it's just like.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Working, working, producing, producing, But that is not the full
human experience. It's not even part of it. I mean
it's not even like half of it. So I think
with that grace, I get to be fully myself.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I was just gonna say, and how would you notice
yourself giving yourself grace?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Can you ask that question in a different way.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yes, you have a life where you wake up and
you do all of these amazing things. I'm a mom,
I'm a co parent, I'm a homeowner, I work full time,
I run, I help run the laundry mat and just
so many things. And at the end of the day,
(38:12):
you're more upset about what you didn't do than you
are proud of what you did, which is almost like
the defining quality of grace. What would happen if you
started being more proud of what you did do and
less attending to what you didn't.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
Yeah, I don't know, because what I'm not doing is
so important. So I was like, yeah, that stuff is
great too, and it is important, but but what I'm
not doing is also really significant.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
I'm not in any way negating that.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
I think My point is when you attend, and this
is like the basic rule of mentality. One of the
things that's fascinating to me about you, Jay, is the
strength of your mind. It is abnormally strong and leads
to you accomplishing abnormal things. Okay, So one of the
(39:14):
things that stands out to me is if I want
to do and this is true for anybody, It is
true for any human being walking the planet. If I
want to depress, I need to think about the things.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
I'm not good at.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Okay, I need to think about my flaws and my
failures and guess what. Every human being has flaws and failures.
So if I want to feel worse about my life,
just pay attention to my flaws, my failures, the things
about me that aren't great. You have such a powerful mind, Jay,
(39:48):
that when you focus on your flaws and misgivings and failures,
it will lead you down the path towards depression. And
I understand you saying, but Elliott, the things I'm not
doing are really important, and I agree. I'm not negating that,
but I am saying, in order to activate that powerful
mind in a way that leads you towards what you want,
(40:09):
leads you towards the outcome you want to achieve, you've
got to focus on other things, the things that you
are great at, and things that you are enjoying, and
the things that you are proud of. And when you
have more of those, then you mood escalate. And that's
true for everybody. But you're spending a lot of your
time thinking about the things you're not great at, and
(40:30):
that doesn't lead towards awesomeness.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
You know what I mean? Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Yea?
Speaker 1 (40:36):
And what I'm noticing is you're focusing so much more
on your flaws and again, everybody has them, and you're
spending less time thinking about what makes you so magnificent,
and that is actually not only is that the pathway
to taking better care of yourself, that's the pathway to
overcoming PTSD and depression and sadness and all of these
(40:58):
other things. Does that mean sense? So for me, the
question becomes, how do we shift focus of that very
powerful brain from what is flawed to what is brilliant?
Because I'm really determined Jay to shift your focus from
what you aren't doing to who you absolutely actually are,
(41:24):
especially in this conversation. I think this is a pattern
that has started, you know, twelve to thirteen years ago,
and I want to break that pattern because I think
you're just thinking about things that have gone wrong, just
because you habitually are starting to think about things that
have gone wrong that started with the first deployment, And
(41:46):
I want to unlock your ability to think about things
that could go right and how kind of remarkable you
are as a person. Okay, and you said something earlier
that's really powerful, like like it's harder to feel bad
when you're taking care of yourself, and that's absolutely not true.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
It's impossible you have achieved in every space you've ever
stepped into. Do you ever realize that?
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Yeah, I didn't realize that, and I was like, damn,
that's actually that's true, and not to like bring myself up,
but like I have no I don't know if I'm
like trying to.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Take yourself up, don't steal that back, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 6 (42:28):
Like, but that's what makes this so frustrating, because it's like, bro,
you have zero evidence that you are going to fill
if you take care of yourself, Like there's no evidence
to support it.
Speaker 3 (42:40):
Like, so what is the problem.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
Maybe I'm just scared. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
No, I think we just identified the problem. I think
that habit. I think it's just become a habit, and
habits really you can form. Here's the thing about.
Speaker 1 (42:52):
Habits day is we will have a habit that doesn't
work for us, but we do it just because it's
a habit, you know what I mean, Like, we don't.
When I say we, I mean as humans, we don't
always do a great job of being Like, but does
this habit move me closer to the outcome I want
to achieve? And I think you've been doing this particular
(43:16):
habit for a decade plus, even though it's not a
habit moving you towards what you hope to achieve.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (43:27):
So now I'm saying, let's pause for a second and
be like, wait a minute, let's create a new habit
that does move us in the direction what we want
to achieve. And part of doing that is giving yourself
grace and just taking a step back and being like,
I got to remind myself who Jay is. And even
though I know you haven't forgotten all your amazing accomplishments,
all those things, but we got to put them in
(43:48):
the forefront. We're got to make you stare at them,
because quite frankly, they're more important than your failures. I
think the biggest trait or characteristic to healthy self esteem
is when you have the ability to look in your
history for evidence of your successes and allow that to
(44:09):
contribute to how you view yourself. No one is perfect,
I want to be very clear about that. So no
one is going to look in their history and just
think they've done everything right. But people with really healthy
self esteem understand I have to accept my flaws, and
I have the ability to look in my past find
evidence of my greatness of my successes, of the things
(44:32):
that make me positive, and I can use those things
to contribute to how I view myself in spite of
my flaws. People who struggle with their self esteem, they
have a tendency to look in their past and only
see their flaws and only see their mistakes, and then
in the current state, think that they are flawed and
(44:53):
think that they are problematic, and think that they are
not worthy. If you can flip that and find evidence
of your successes, find evidence of what makes you great,
find evidence of the positive traits about you while accepting
your flaws, then you will have healthy self esteatement. What
(45:17):
difference do you think it would make for you to
be discovering like, I'm not as bad as I make
myself out to be in my head.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
Oh, I mean, I guess I'll make a huge difference.
I think when you are questioning yourself or doubting yourself,
you have to look at the evidence of your life
and say, does the evidence support what I'm feeling? And
(45:50):
not to say that what you feel may not be
real for you at that moment, But when you come
back to reality and you you know you look at
the circumstances of your life, and you say, well, I
know I'm feeling pretty low. I know I'm feeling pretty bad,
but look at what I've done.
Speaker 5 (46:10):
You know, I've done this, I've done X, I've done Y.
I've gotten over these hurdles throughout my life.
Speaker 4 (46:18):
So you know, maybe I am strong, maybe I am resilient,
maybe I am beautiful or whatever it is that you
know you're trying to knock yourself from not being when
you look back at the past, you say, there's really
no evidence to support this thinking. So the thinking is
(46:39):
the flaw. You know it's not it's not true. So
how do you you know you use that to kind
of shift your mind from from this sinking thinking thoughts?
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Jay, So, I don't think any human being has ever
said anything ever that I agree with more than what
you just said. If I have a doubting thought, if
I just look at the evidence of my life to say,
is this doubting thought I've had, is this kind of
(47:14):
down thought I've had, Is this self loathing thought I've had?
Is there any evidence to it? And when you see
that there's not, then you'd be like, well, maybe I
am smart, strong, beautiful, resilience thought? Is that what I
heard you say?
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (47:31):
So what difference will it make in your life when
that becomes a habit for you? When it's like, all right,
when I have a negative thought, I take a minute,
I take a second, I pause, and I look in
my past to see is there any evidence justifying this
(47:51):
negative thought? And then you find that there's not. What
difference will that make in your life when that becomes
a habit for you?
Speaker 4 (48:08):
When you ask that question, I always find it. I
find it such a weird question.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
How come?
Speaker 4 (48:18):
Because the answer seems so intuitive that I feel like
I don't know if I'm giving you the answer that
you're looking for or if I'm thinking about it in
the way that you want me to think about it.
Because I mean, naturally, I would just say it would
make a huge difference.
Speaker 5 (48:33):
It would be better, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
But I just feel like maybe I'm missing something when
he's asking me that question.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Because no, well can I I can even I can
provide more clarity and maybe ask it a different way,
right because and I don't mean to sound overly hyperbolic
with this point, but I do mean this, if more
people did what you just said, there'd be a significant
(49:00):
less need for therapists.
Speaker 5 (49:03):
Right.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
One of the reasons why we struggle is we're very
good at thinking a negative thought about ourselves and then
just automatically believing that negative thought is true, whatever that
negative thought might be, Like I'm bad at basketball, so
thus I don't want to go to the park, Like
we don't even think. But wait a minute, I've played
on my high school team. I played, and you know
what I mean. Like, we don't do the exact examination
(49:25):
you said, reviewing history to see if the evidence of
that thing is true. We literally just have a negative
thought and then we behave as if that negative thought
were true. So the thing that you just said is
a powerful and important thing. There's a lot of stuff
in your history. You have all kinds of degrees. You
have turned yourself into a successful business person while being
(49:50):
an amazing mod Like, there's a lot of history that
would counter a negative thought. And most people have history
that would count a negative thought, they just don't access.
So when I say what difference would that make, I'm
asking what I'm wondering is like, in what specific ways
might your life change if you adopted this habit of
(50:10):
Like I just had a negative thought. But hold on,
I'm going to look in my past to see where's
the evidence of this negative thought. Because if there's no
evidence of this negative thought, I get to keep thinking
myself is pretty awesome.
Speaker 4 (50:23):
Right yeah, I mean again, I just feel like, yeah,
we'll be better, We'll be better. I don't know, it
would make a difference, it would be a positive difference.
And I think for me, the challenge is I know
it would be better. I know that this is a
(50:46):
type of way that I should approach these types of thoughts.
The challenge is doing that thing, doing it, you know, doing.
Speaker 5 (50:59):
Doing this can consistently.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
If I had an amount of money to wager that
was meaningful, not just a little bit of money, but
a meaningful amount of money, and someone bet me will
Jay figure this out? I would confidently say yes, she will,
and I would confidently bet my money on it. And
what would give me confidence is you figure everything else
out up until this point, right and you know you've
(51:25):
always heard the phrase, or people always heard the phrase.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
I don't know if you've heard it.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. So
if this person consistently figures out why wouldn't I Why
wouldn't I confidently assume she'll figure the next thing out,
whether that's you know, success in the real estate industry
or getting back to exercising, or getting her confidence back, Like,
(51:51):
whatever it is, I would, I would play so a
meaningful amount of money on you would accomplish it because
you habitually solve things.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
That's that's kind of what you do.
Speaker 3 (52:02):
True story.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
If I could do one thing in your life, it
would be to remind you of that and keep that
on your mind. Like if going through this process, Jay
did one thing, I hope it would remind you. Like
when you look in the mirror, you're looking at kind
of a badass woman who has a habit of functioning
(52:27):
at a real high level. Like that's that's just your habit.
It's just what you do. You bubble to the top.
But it's important to me that when you look at yourself,
you see someone that habitually accomplishes greatness.
Speaker 3 (52:42):
Spitting bars over there.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Spitting bars about you. These are bars you gave me
in my time.
Speaker 4 (52:52):
Of knowing, Yeah, you're right, I just gotta I gotta
get back to that, to that mindset for sure.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
You know that you know The easiest way to get
back to that mindset, Jay, what's that?
Speaker 2 (53:08):
To pay attention to it.
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Yeah, the old adage is one thousand percent true. Whatever
you pay attention to grows. So if I pay attention
to why aren't I that person anymore? What the heck
is wrong with me? Why am I said? Then that
actually grows. But if you pay attention to how did
(53:33):
I become so awesome? What is it that allows me
to take these kind of risks. Most people don't figure
out how to make their first investment? How did I
do that? Then that is what grows. So the fastest
pathway to the kind of transformation that we're talking about
is to simply notice it, to simply wake up every
(53:53):
day and say, I'm going to pay really close attention
to what makes me great, and I'm going to notice
that sparkle happening. I'm gonna notice myself instead of paying
attention to how stuck I am, I'm going to pay
attention to it, how I've built this little life raft
of an investment career, and really pay attention to that
(54:13):
life raft that you built. That's the best way to
kind of reactivate that part of you. Because every time
I talk to you. I see this woman that anybody
would admire, and I'm not sure you admire you. And
that's the transformation that has the change you need to
(54:34):
admire you. You're very easy to respect, you're very easy
to brag about. You're very easy to admire. But I
don't think you see what everybody else around you sees.
It's time you start giving yourself credit.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Jay, You're right. You have to make me cry?
Speaker 2 (54:53):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (54:56):
Because you're right? And it's like, at some point, you know,
you gotta regardless of how I got to this point
and this way of thinking, it's like, at what point
are you going to stop? You know, at what point
are you going to let it go? And you know,
(55:18):
you just gotta, you gotta, you gotta take action. You
gotta do something different. And and I see it, you know,
I see it clear as day.
Speaker 3 (55:31):
It's just just getting it my own way.
Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yeah, you know, the.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
How you got into a different mindset is completely irrelevant.
The only thing that's relevant is transforming it. And the
best way to transform it is to simply pay attention
to it.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
It's to simply pay attention to it.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
So my friend, Jay, Yes, are we on a new
mission now?
Speaker 3 (56:14):
Yeah, yeah, we are.
Speaker 6 (56:16):
We are.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
I think it's incredibly important that people set boundaries to
protect their energy and their mental health. When people ask
me what is the biggest threat to mental health, people
think that I'm going to say things like addiction, anxiety, depression,
But it's actually not respecting your energy and not setting
up boundaries in your life to protect them. I can't
(56:40):
tell you how many times I see people that are
really really stretched thin and then someone asks them, hey,
do you want to like hang out and do this
social thing on the weekend, When it's like, you know,
you need to say no and take care of yourself. Now,
some people they need isolated time to rejuvenate. Other people
(57:01):
they need social time to rejuvenate. But you need to
make choices that honor your energy and protect your mental health.
There are certain people that when you're around them, it
becomes a threat to your energy and mental health, and
others it becomes an asset to your energy and mental health.
You've got to make choices that honor that. Since in
(57:21):
this session, we highlighted Jay's pattern of looking in her
history and finding flaws and the consequences of that pattern,
I know there are many people out there listening to
this episode that also struggle with that. So what I
would like you to do is get a piece of
paper or an iPad, whatever it does, you write on,
and I want you to write down ten achievements you've
(57:44):
made in your life. I don't care if they're huge
achievements like you've done big massive things, or even small
wins like you know you lost five pounds when you
wanted to. Whatever it is, just write down ten accomplishments
that you had to put forth even a little effort
into make successful and make happen. And then for each
of those ten, I want you to find two traits
that you have within you that allowed you to achieve
(58:08):
those ten things. Now, the positive thing that will come
from this, it's going to force your brain to do
an incredibly important thing, and that is take credit for
your successes. We have a tendency to we accept blame
for what went wrong, but we think that our successes
are just random or luck. I want you to take
(58:28):
as much credit for your successes as you take blame
for your flaws. And when you do that, it will
transform your mental health, your self esteem, and your confidence.
This is not just a podcast that I want you
to consume and be entertained by. I actually want you
to be inspired. I want you to be impacted by this,
(58:50):
and in fact, we can't help but be impacted by
the content we consume. So what I would like for
you to do is come on this healing journey with us.
Come on this journey of change rediscovery with us.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
And the way to do.
Speaker 1 (59:04):
That is to just pay attention to the things going
on in your life as a consequence of listening to
this podcast. Pay attention to things in your life shifting
in a more desirable way. Pay attention to your desirable
outcome becoming your reality. Pay attention to evidence of your success,
your resilience, and your strength.
Speaker 2 (59:23):
And let us know in the comments.
Speaker 1 (59:25):
What you're noticing in your life as a result of
listening to this podcast and as a result of paying
attention to these things. I would love to hear from
you about your healing journey, your family, and your feedback.
Leave a review, send a DM, connect with me on
socials at Elliott Speaks, and you can also send me
a text message to nine seventy two four two six
(59:45):
two six four zero. Family Therapy is a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Podcast Network special thanks to
our assistant Glendale Sepe. It's produced by Jack Queish Thomas
and the executive producer Dolly S.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
S Fisher.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
For more podcasts from The Black Effect, visit the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The
content presented on the Family Therapy Podcast serves solely for
educational and informational purposes. It should not be considered a
replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does
not constitute a provider antient relationship. It is advisable to
consult with your healthcare provider or health team for any
(01:00:21):
specific concerns or questions you may have
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