August 27, 2025 • 30 mins
You remember DeAnna Pappas when she was on Brad Womack's season of "The Bachelor", and again when she starred as "The Bachelorette" - but sadly, DeAnna never managed to find love in Bachelor Nation.
She got married and started a family, but unfortunately, every rose has its thorn, and the marriage ended in divorce.
Now DeAnna is ready to get back out there and take control of her dating life post-divorce! With the help of Ben Higgins, we'll follow her on this journey to finding love...again!
Follow us on Instagram @FamouslyAvailable
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
iHeart Podcasts bring you the Ultimate Summer of Love Tree.
This is famously available. Deanna Poppus. She did find love
in two thousand and eight when she was the bachelorette,
but it didn't quite stick. Then, through a Bachelor Nation connection,
she fell in love, married, had children, and was living
(00:23):
the dream. But this wasn't the happily ever after she wanted.
So it's time for her story to continue. Deanna. Our
listeners know you, they're familiar with you, they probably love you.
That's my assumption here. But we are sitting here today
talking about something very different than what they know you
(00:46):
from before. So let's start this thing by giving our
listeners an update, catching them up here a little bit,
and then maybe sharing how in the world we got
here today.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Is it really that different, Ben? Is it really that
different than how your listeners might know who I am
where they know I'm from.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
It's really it all comes back around.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's really you're just a different host than what I
had seventeen.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Years ago, very much not as charismatic or as handsome.
But I'll tell you this, if I can be Chris
Harrison's C team, I'll take it.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I hear you're as equally as good as a golfer.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
That's true. Let's say that publicly. I hope he listens.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'll text Harrison after this and let him know.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Please do. Let's see.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
You knew me many years ago as this young, naive
Southern bale who was looking to find her happily ever after,
and here she is, She's back, still looking for that
one true love.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
It's interesting because what we're attempting to do here, I
think is so fun, and I think that's the point
of the concept that we're entering into together. Really, this
is the first time we're trying it and hopefully the
first of many seasons to come. But famously Available is
(02:13):
supposed to be fun. Let's start this conversation with some
things that aren't fun. Obviously. People know you from some
headlines recently about a breakup slash divorce. How are you
healing as you walk through this process, especially in the
(02:33):
public eye, because you have been in the public eye before,
but now it's been a few years and you're going
through this breakup in the public sphere when social media
is very much more prevalent than it used to be,
and opinions are very much louder than they used to
be how are you doing through this time?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
There's a saying that you take it day by day,
and sometimes I'm taking it hour by hour. I think
the unique thing that I have is that most people
get to go through a relationship or get divorced and
they don't have to really allow anyone else to be
a part of that. And so that has been a
(03:20):
bit of a learning experience for me because I very
much want to protect my children. Everything lives on the internet.
You know, back when I was on television, Listen Ben,
it's on a DVD. There's a lot of clips that
you can't find anymore. So I feel like I have
some serenity there and some peace of mind. But everything
(03:40):
lives on the internet. So I am very careful what
I say, what I share for the sake of my children,
and I have said it from the get go that
my children get to love me and they get to
love their father, and that's what they deserve. They don't
need to hear the in the depths of what went
(04:01):
on in our marriage and why it didn't work. That's
not what my children deserve. So yeah, it's been trying.
I am divorced. I'm very much single, I have not
dated a lot since getting divorced, and most of that
is just because I truly wanted to focus on myself,
and I wanted to focus on my children, and I
wanted to make sure that the transition was okay for
(04:22):
the two of them. The interesting thing about divorce, and
something that I have had to learn, is that when
you get married, you work so hard to become one.
There's this whole and I'm a Christian, I'm very open
about that, but there's this whole thing where people tell
you, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
You've become one.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
You become one in this relationship, you no longer operate
us two, and then overnight you are expected to be
two again. You love someone, and you spend so many
years loving someone so much, and then it is no joke,
like overnight, you don't know this person anymore. I wish
it was a dreams scenario. I so admire those people
(05:02):
who are like, yeah, we're still best friends. For the
sake of the kids, we hang out, our new spouses
hang out. I admire people like that. That is not
my situation. So I am navigating it day by day
and trying to remember that I have children who are
walking through this and I just want to be the
best version of myself. That's all that I want. And
(05:23):
a really good lesson for me during this period of
time is just, you know, I can only take responsibility
for myself and the things that I do and say,
and everything else has to be silenced and pushed away
because I can't control anyone else. I can't control you, Ben,
I can't control anyone else. I can only control what
I do and how I respond and how I react.
So divorce has not been easy for me, and some
(05:47):
of the situations that have occurred since have been really difficult.
And I wish that I could be a person that
could go through this privately, but that's not my life.
And I believe that I have a new disrespect for
tabloids who take headlines as a clickbait, or even the
(06:10):
many people who have spoke on it or have had
comments on it since, because I guarantee you, no one
knows the truth of the matter other than the two
people that were there, and I'm one of those. So
I find that fascinating the amount of people who will
comment on myself or my marriage or anything that went
on when really truly no one was there. So I
(06:32):
have had to come to a space that I don't
truly understand, and nor do I care anyone else's opinion.
You are married Ben, and you know that there's his truth,
her truth, and the truth. There's always three sides to
every story, and no one should have a seat at
the table in your marriage. No one should have a seat.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Obviously, this whole concept that we're entering into is about
moving forward, But I do want to spend a second
here and still continue kind of in the space we're
talking about right now. You have gone through divorce, you
do have kids you want, and I think it's a
terrific mindset to protect the kids and to make sure
(07:16):
that they can love you and their father well. But
I've always been curious about this personally. I don't think
there's a user manual for how to walk through divorce,
and I think there are a lot of opinions, you know,
from the outside probably as you go through this process.
(07:37):
So who have you leaned on, Who has been a
part of that circle that you've entrusted to help sit
with you when you're feeling great, to sit with you
when you're mourning and feeling lonely, to cry with you,
and to also hold you accountable as you try to
make these decisions on should you speak out publicly on
(07:58):
this or should you stay quiet, just all the stuff
that happens when you go through this in the public eye.
What has your support system been like.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I actually have a really great support system. Some friends
of mine who have just been with us every step
of the way. They were actually friends of Stephen and
I as a couple, and they have remained my friends,
and they walk through me. They're the type of people
who put on the boots and they walk through the
trenches with you and carry you on days that you
(08:26):
cannot carry yourselves. I have always been the type of
person who I keep my side of the street clean.
That's what I do. I keep my side of the
street clean. I've never been the type of person that
believes in gossip or speaking negatively negatively about other people,
(08:47):
or telling the dirty truth. I will stand by that.
In my marriage, I honored my marriage and I kept
things really private for that exact reason, and I think
that's why people were so surprised when Even and I
announced that we were getting divorced, because I kept everything
really close to heart. Other than the people that I
trust and for me, that's because I valued my husband
(09:09):
at the time, and I valued my relationship and my marriage,
and with so much of my life that is public,
those boundaries are really important to me because there is
so much that I allow for people to have access
to in my life because I chose to go on television,
(09:31):
but my children did not, and my ex husband did not.
So there are pieces that I hold really close to heart,
really close to my chest, that I won't share. I
choose not to do that. And my goal at the
end of the day is and always has been, I'd
love to get to a place where I don't loathe
(09:52):
my ex husband. So that is a process, and that
is a process for me. That's to come to terms
with things that I have experienced and things that I
have gone through, and it is a healing and a
grieving process. I believe not only is the end of
a relationship, but the end of a marriage divorce is
(10:15):
very much like a death. There is a process. It
is grief. It is grief to its finest, and I
am an advocate for mental health and God, I love
therapy and I have walked and rode every wave of
grief and sometimes I still am I currently still am,
(10:36):
you know, but that's important for me for my healing process.
And I'm also the type of person when I am
done with something with someone with a relationship, I'm done.
There's no going back for me. I don't backpedal. I
believe that things close for a reason for new ones
to open. And even still, I'm not that same person
(10:59):
who who was married to my ex husband. Anyway, I'm different,
and I'm different because of grief, and I'm different because
of the ending of that relationship. And I'm different because
I had to learn and I had to grow and
I had to process and I am freaking resilient and
I'm really proud of that.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You mentioned the grief part here, and I think it's
interesting because it sounds like to me, and you tell
me if I'm wrong, that you're still in this season
of grieving moments or having grieving moments. For anybody listening
who has gone through divorce, or for anybody who is
going through a breakup, that just feels like the end
(11:49):
of the world and everything inside of them is being
ripped out, and they're lonely and they're nervous and they're
trying to process it all. You do you mind sharing
a little bit more about what this grief feels like
and what this grief is doing to you personally and
how it's changing you.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, my grief that I'm walking through right now is
very different than the grief that I experienced three years
ago when our relationship ended. So although we waited a
really long time to tell anyone that we were separating,
and divorce takes a long time, it's not something that
happens overnight. We truly haven't been together in at least
three years or something like that. So I grieved my relationship.
(12:31):
Then the new grief that I'm experiencing is an outcome
of the headlines and the tabloids that everyone is reading,
and the fact that really difficult things that have taken
place in my life have to play out for everyone
to read through clicking a link, you know what I mean.
(12:54):
So that's my grief. I'm no longer grieving the relationship.
I'm grieving what I thought could be really good co
parenting space for my children. I'm grieving the idea that
I could have a really wonderful relationship with my children's father.
But I am no longer grieving that relationship or that marriage.
(13:15):
I'm no longer grieving that I have come worlds past that,
But I think it would be doing a disservice to
deny that the things that have taken place recently have
not been incredibly hard for me and really really hard
for my children. So that's kind of it's kind of
all I'm willing to share on that because again, I
work really hard to protect my children and the things
(13:39):
that have taken place are just so unfortunate. They're just
they're so unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So yeah, that's fair. Yeah, you share as much as
you feel like is appropriate, and again I completely appreciate
and respect the protection that you're surrounding your family with.
Let's transition then into kind of this next season. When
did you realize or when did you start to feel
(14:08):
or when did you come to terms with however you
want to describe it, because I'm intrigued with the language
that you use around it that you are single and available.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Again, I probably was not really interested in any kind
of relationship, let alone dating until maybe within the last year.
I just wasn't there yet. I wasn't emotionally available, I
wasn't emotionally ready, and honest to God, I just kind
of really loved my life. I love where I live,
(14:39):
I love my time with the kids, I have an
amazing job, I travel the world, and I felt really
really great about that. I didn't have a lot of
space or any kind of capacity to take on another
human being for the first time in my life outside
of my children. That was probably the most selfish that
I've ever been. And I am the least selfish human
(15:00):
being that I hope any of my people know, because
I'm a giver and I love to be surrounded and
I love to feed people, and I love to have community,
and I love those things. And this was the first
time in my life where I was actually selfish. I
did what I wanted. I bought what barstools I wanted,
I got what comforter I wanted, I took my children
and wherever I wanted. It probably wasn't until maybe about
(15:25):
a year ago that I finally got to a space
where I was like, oh, okay, like I could, I
could desire someone's companionship, but there's a fine line here, Ben,
Like the longer I go, I'm kind of like, yeah, no,
Like I'm never living with another person. If I want
to let the dishes sit in the sink. They're my dishes.
I know I did them. So it's a very fine
line of being ready to find someone and also being
(15:51):
really comfortable in my space. I'm in a very different
place in my life where when I was in my
early twenties, when I went on the bachelorette before I
met Stephen, I wanted to marry someone. I wanted to
combine our lives. I wanted to stay home with our children.
I wanted that very traditional relationship where my husband worked
and I raise the kids and we shared whatever. I'm
(16:13):
not there anymore. I have a career that I really like.
I don't need another man's money. I pay my own bills,
I put a roof over our heads, I have a
great job that I love.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It would just be that.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Component of having companionship. And I have said it a
thousand times over. I don't desire marriage anymore. I did
that and that was a lot of fun. But I'll
tell you what's really traumatic is divorce. So I don't
necessarily need that piece of paper anymore. I've done it.
I gave it a good shot. But I believe in
(16:46):
partnership and companionship. I believe in relationships. I believe in
being loyal to one person and finding someone that compliments
me and vice versa. But I would say the traditional
aspect of it looks different from me now. I'm almost
forty four years old and I don't need to be
taken care of. It'd be kind of nice if someone
wanted to take me out to dinner, but I don't
rely on another man for those things any longer. And
(17:08):
I believe that just comes with age and growth and security,
financial security, and just I'm in a different place in
my life than probably where I was when I was
twenty six and that sweet little girl walking out to
a freshly washed pavement waiting for the limos to pull up,
of all these guys, and that feels really good because
I'm not I'm not desperate. I will be picky, I'll
(17:33):
be choosy, the go to the gotta kind of bring
it because I'm not willing to settle. I wasn't then,
and I'm for sure a shit I'm not now.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I mean, and that's wonderful, But is it negotiable? Like
are you crossing off marriage like you have no interest
in getting married again? Or say the perfect and we're
going to talk about what that perfect companion looks like
to you in your mind right now. I have some
thoughts and feelings from my own experience, but I'll get
(18:03):
to that in a second. But if you find that
perfect companion for what you're thinking it looks like right now,
is getting married again off the table or is it
still an option available?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
If we're looking at the table, ben it's at the
very corner and it's almost hanging off the edge where
it's like rocking back and forth. If someone doesn't push
it back on the table, it's going to be really hard.
It's just not something that is important to me. If
I meet someone and it's really important to them, I
am always open to understanding and hearing how someone feels
(18:36):
and making compromises. But I would say it is not
important to me. But if I meet someone and I
believe it's the love of my life and it's important
to them, I would be open to the conversation.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Okay, So it's just into the perfect companion. One of
the things I've always talked about publicly, and I have
a lot of respect for my past relationships in my life.
(19:08):
Some of them are close friends and some aren't so close.
To me, and I really have no desire to ever
see them again. But the thing that I appreciate is
you learn from serious relationships. I think more a few
years removed than you can ever understand. So I walked
(19:32):
out of a lot of these serious relationships going Okay,
this is actually what I'm looking for now I'm with you.
When I was a bachelor, I had this list of
ideals and none of those were the same ideals I
looked for in my future spouse, which is Jessica. They
changed kind of based on my experience. So now, because
(19:53):
you have years of marriage under your belt, and because
you've now gone through a divorce, what does a perfect
companion look like to you? In the seat you're sitting in?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Well, I think if I knew that, I wouldn't be
sitting in the seat, don't you think, ben.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
No, I think you one hundred percent will, because you'd
be going this guy I haven't met him yet, but
he's out there somewhere because he's X y Z. But
I haven't met this guy. So yes, I think you'd
be sitting in the seat because you haven't met him,
and we're going to help you meet him.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I think it's worth noting that I agree with you.
What I look for now is going to be very
different than probably what I looked for at twenty six
or thirty, you know, or even in my marriage. I
absolutely have got to be with someone who is emotionally
sound and emotionally mature, someone that can can function in
(20:51):
conversation on the most basic level. Reciprocity is so incredibly
important to me, and I would like to think that
chivalry is not dead.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I'm listened.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I'm a pretty independent woman, but look, I find it
flattering if a guy wants to open up my car
door or take me out to dinner and actually pay
for it. Like I would appreciate that. Those I would
say are like my top three things, Like I need
someone who is emotionally well. I need that emotional maturity,
(21:23):
someone that can communicate, someone that can express themselves and
have a conversation as an adult and be very in
tune with who they are and understand their mental health
their capacity to do so. I believe that that is
really important in a healthy relationship, and I really want
that in a partner, in a companion and a spouse.
(21:46):
That's something that is now really really important to me.
I need that I need someone who can communicate, someone
who can say how they feel, and someone who can
also be supportive at the same time. I don't think
that we all know how to do that. I don't
believe everyone knows how to communicate in a situation or
an argument. And again, I'm a very strong personality. I
(22:10):
have pretty big opinions, and I need someone who is
willing to stay in that and be able to handle
me and have a conversation and not let me run.
I also really want to feel safe in a relationship.
(22:33):
That's something that I realized through therapy after divorce. Something
that I really crave, and I've likely craved it from
a young age, is that I want to feel safe
in a relationship. And I don't know that I have
ever had a really healthy relationship where I have felt
safe as a woman with a partner. I don't know
that I've ever felt really safe, and I really want that.
I want someone who is going to look at me
(22:55):
on my bad days and say, you know what I'm
really I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. You can have
a crap day or you can get upset, but I'm
not going anywhere. I'm here, You're safe. You may be
yourself with me, you may be vulnerable, and I will
never use it against you. I think that's really important.
And then yeah, like I something about living in LA,
Like like I've been on a date and a guy said,
(23:18):
do you want to split dinner? And I was like,
I'm out.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I'm out.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
There's no going back, there's no coming back from that.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, LA is gonna be tough. It's going to be See,
it's a whole new new hurdle that we have here
to find somebody within that area. But in closing, uh,
I'm getting this sense that you have a whole new level.
And again, please disagree with me and question me and
(23:46):
tell me I'm wrong. I would love but I get
this since you have this whole new confidence in this
season of life, like you're you're not even need It
doesn't feel like you're needing or wanting as much as
maybe it's just like a wishful desire, which is an
interesting place in my opinion to enter into dating. Not
(24:08):
this like longing for oh my gosh, I need to
find a partner. Yes, you're right.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I think it's a very different, a different position to
be in life because I believe we are taught from
an early age that you go to high school, then
you go to college, then you get married, then you
have babies, and there's all of these monumental marks in
your lifespan that you're supposed to do. And I've done
all of those things, So you're right, Ben that, like
(24:35):
I feel, I'm in a place in my life that
I don't have to check those things off. And again,
I'm very grateful that I have a really wonderful job,
so I have financial security, I have my children. I
don't want any more kids, so I'm not in this
place of like every time you go on a date,
you're like, oh my god, am I going to marry
this person?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Is this the one?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Is this the one? I believe that you can have
many great loves in your life, and they can be
at different times and in the places where you are
in your life. And I had the high school sweetheart,
you know, then I had the marriage. I had that
person that I thought I would love, and I would
say that now I am ready for that like great love,
(25:17):
That great love, the one that I hate to say,
the word that defines us, but it's the one that
makes us. It's the one that when I'm sixty five.
That's the one that I'm like, Oh, yeah, that was it,
that was the one. And you're also right, I'm in
no rush. I am willing to be patient.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I don't want to backtrack and be where I was,
which is which is probably also why I say I
don't ever want to get married again, because for me,
that breakup and divorce was very traumatic. I don't want
to experience that again. I don't want to make that
mistake again. So the red flags that I missed, you know,
going into that relationship. I pay attention to a lot
of those things now. And that goes back to what
(26:00):
you said in the beginning, is that you learn a
lot of lessons from relationships. My ex husband was not
my first relationship I've been in. I've been in several relationships,
and I've loved and lost before him. But I would
say that at this age that was a great loss
to me. That was a great loss to me. And again,
I've come a long way and I have grieved that
(26:21):
one and I've set it aside and I'm never gone back.
I don't ever want to go back, I promise you that.
But you learn things, and there are certain things now
that I know that I'm not willing to put up
with if I cook, you clean, like, just do the dishes?
Is that too much to ask? Like, just do the dishes.
But all joking aside, there are things that at my
(26:42):
age I'm going to be forty four this year, I
just have certain things that I'm willing to tolerate anymore
because I don't have to. And I'm in a rush.
It's not like I'm rushing to get married. I'm not
in a rush to get into a relationship. But if
someone really great comes along, I know that I'm not
willing to let that go.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Final question for you as we close up this, I'm
excited to be a part of this either very impactful
season for you or just a nice blimp on a
radar for you as you enter back into the dating world.
But dating to me now, as I think about it,
(27:21):
or as I talk to people who are within this world,
it feels still to this day, and I thought it
would feel different after years of marriage. It feels scary,
and it feels intimidating, and it also it sometimes feels exciting.
There's an excitement to it, and anticipation maybe is the
better way to say it, but do you have any
fears about entering into the dating world again and actively dating?
(27:48):
Is there anything that concerns you about this next chapter?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Just narcissists, just straight narcissists. They scare me across the board.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
You live in La Goodness, gracious, you're screwed.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
They're gonna have to move back to the East Coast.
I think, No, I don't have a lot of fears.
Bad breath really scares me. Someone who might try to
kiss me on a first date really scares me. No,
I don't anythink. That's the really nice thing about coming
so far and having been through so much is that
(28:23):
I feel really at peace with myself, ben like, I
kind of really like me, and I'm not willing to
negotiate that or change that for anyone. I feel very
secure in who I am. I like genuinely like myself,
and I don't mind spending time alone. So something that
I'm not willing to do is to bend that for
any other person. That's not important for me, and I
(28:48):
have faith that if anybody wants to do that to you,
to change who you are, to change who you are
at your core, they're not the right person for you.
So fears. I don't have a lot of them yet.
But again, I've barely tipped my into the dating pond,
like I'm barely there, and people keep saying there's fish,
but I just don't. I don't think there are a
lot of them. But no, I am really grateful to
(29:10):
be very secure in who I am and me as
a person. And I think you'll like it or you
leave it. You either want to be with me or
you don't. There's no more begging. And I have learned
that I will never ever in my life again beg
a man to choose me. I never will. I did
(29:33):
that and I've put that to bed, and I'll never
do it again.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
This is beautiful. I'm so excited. Thank you too for
jumping in here tonight, and thank you for sharing with us.
Here's what I'm seeing is we have a confident we
have a strong we have a newly inspired human on
our hands who is so fresh. Forty four. It's exciting.
(30:01):
You're not forty four. You got to stop saying that
you're forty three about to turn forty four. You're still
forty three. Let's enjoy the last few months of the
forty three we have okay, all right. A deal
iHeart Podcasts bring you the Ultimate Summer of Love Tree.
This is famously available. Deanna Poppus. She did find love
in two thousand and eight when she was the bachelorette,
but it didn't quite stick. Then, through a Bachelor Nation connection,
she fell in love, married, had children, and was living
(00:23):
the dream. But this wasn't the happily ever after she wanted.
So it's time for her story to continue. Deanna. Our
listeners know you, they're familiar with you, they probably love you.
That's my assumption here. But we are sitting here today
talking about something very different than what they know you
(00:46):
from before. So let's start this thing by giving our
listeners an update, catching them up here a little bit,
and then maybe sharing how in the world we got
here today.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Is it really that different, Ben? Is it really that
different than how your listeners might know who I am
where they know I'm from.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
It's really it all comes back around.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's really you're just a different host than what I
had seventeen.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Years ago, very much not as charismatic or as handsome.
But I'll tell you this, if I can be Chris
Harrison's C team, I'll take it.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I hear you're as equally as good as a golfer.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
That's true. Let's say that publicly. I hope he listens.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'll text Harrison after this and let him know.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Please do. Let's see.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
You knew me many years ago as this young, naive
Southern bale who was looking to find her happily ever after,
and here she is, She's back, still looking for that
one true love.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
It's interesting because what we're attempting to do here, I
think is so fun, and I think that's the point
of the concept that we're entering into together. Really, this
is the first time we're trying it and hopefully the
first of many seasons to come. But famously Available is
(02:13):
supposed to be fun. Let's start this conversation with some
things that aren't fun. Obviously. People know you from some
headlines recently about a breakup slash divorce. How are you
healing as you walk through this process, especially in the
(02:33):
public eye, because you have been in the public eye before,
but now it's been a few years and you're going
through this breakup in the public sphere when social media
is very much more prevalent than it used to be,
and opinions are very much louder than they used to
be how are you doing through this time?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
There's a saying that you take it day by day,
and sometimes I'm taking it hour by hour. I think
the unique thing that I have is that most people
get to go through a relationship or get divorced and
they don't have to really allow anyone else to be
a part of that. And so that has been a
(03:20):
bit of a learning experience for me because I very
much want to protect my children. Everything lives on the internet.
You know, back when I was on television, Listen Ben,
it's on a DVD. There's a lot of clips that
you can't find anymore. So I feel like I have
some serenity there and some peace of mind. But everything
(03:40):
lives on the internet. So I am very careful what
I say, what I share for the sake of my children,
and I have said it from the get go that
my children get to love me and they get to
love their father, and that's what they deserve. They don't
need to hear the in the depths of what went
(04:01):
on in our marriage and why it didn't work. That's
not what my children deserve. So yeah, it's been trying.
I am divorced. I'm very much single, I have not
dated a lot since getting divorced, and most of that
is just because I truly wanted to focus on myself,
and I wanted to focus on my children, and I
wanted to make sure that the transition was okay for
(04:22):
the two of them. The interesting thing about divorce, and
something that I have had to learn, is that when
you get married, you work so hard to become one.
There's this whole and I'm a Christian, I'm very open
about that, but there's this whole thing where people tell
you, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
You've become one.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
You become one in this relationship, you no longer operate
us two, and then overnight you are expected to be
two again. You love someone, and you spend so many
years loving someone so much, and then it is no joke,
like overnight, you don't know this person anymore. I wish
it was a dreams scenario. I so admire those people
(05:02):
who are like, yeah, we're still best friends. For the
sake of the kids, we hang out, our new spouses
hang out. I admire people like that. That is not
my situation. So I am navigating it day by day
and trying to remember that I have children who are
walking through this and I just want to be the
best version of myself. That's all that I want. And
(05:23):
a really good lesson for me during this period of
time is just, you know, I can only take responsibility
for myself and the things that I do and say,
and everything else has to be silenced and pushed away
because I can't control anyone else. I can't control you, Ben,
I can't control anyone else. I can only control what
I do and how I respond and how I react.
So divorce has not been easy for me, and some
(05:47):
of the situations that have occurred since have been really difficult.
And I wish that I could be a person that
could go through this privately, but that's not my life.
And I believe that I have a new disrespect for
tabloids who take headlines as a clickbait, or even the
(06:10):
many people who have spoke on it or have had
comments on it since, because I guarantee you, no one
knows the truth of the matter other than the two
people that were there, and I'm one of those. So
I find that fascinating the amount of people who will
comment on myself or my marriage or anything that went
on when really truly no one was there. So I
(06:32):
have had to come to a space that I don't
truly understand, and nor do I care anyone else's opinion.
You are married Ben, and you know that there's his truth,
her truth, and the truth. There's always three sides to
every story, and no one should have a seat at
the table in your marriage. No one should have a seat.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Obviously, this whole concept that we're entering into is about
moving forward, But I do want to spend a second
here and still continue kind of in the space we're
talking about right now. You have gone through divorce, you
do have kids you want, and I think it's a
terrific mindset to protect the kids and to make sure
(07:16):
that they can love you and their father well. But
I've always been curious about this personally. I don't think
there's a user manual for how to walk through divorce,
and I think there are a lot of opinions, you know,
from the outside probably as you go through this process.
(07:37):
So who have you leaned on, Who has been a
part of that circle that you've entrusted to help sit
with you when you're feeling great, to sit with you
when you're mourning and feeling lonely, to cry with you,
and to also hold you accountable as you try to
make these decisions on should you speak out publicly on
(07:58):
this or should you stay quiet, just all the stuff
that happens when you go through this in the public eye.
What has your support system been like.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
I actually have a really great support system. Some friends
of mine who have just been with us every step
of the way. They were actually friends of Stephen and
I as a couple, and they have remained my friends,
and they walk through me. They're the type of people
who put on the boots and they walk through the
trenches with you and carry you on days that you
(08:26):
cannot carry yourselves. I have always been the type of
person who I keep my side of the street clean.
That's what I do. I keep my side of the
street clean. I've never been the type of person that
believes in gossip or speaking negatively negatively about other people,
(08:47):
or telling the dirty truth. I will stand by that.
In my marriage, I honored my marriage and I kept
things really private for that exact reason, and I think
that's why people were so surprised when Even and I
announced that we were getting divorced, because I kept everything
really close to heart. Other than the people that I
trust and for me, that's because I valued my husband
(09:09):
at the time, and I valued my relationship and my marriage,
and with so much of my life that is public,
those boundaries are really important to me because there is
so much that I allow for people to have access
to in my life because I chose to go on television,
(09:31):
but my children did not, and my ex husband did not.
So there are pieces that I hold really close to heart,
really close to my chest, that I won't share. I
choose not to do that. And my goal at the
end of the day is and always has been, I'd
love to get to a place where I don't loathe
(09:52):
my ex husband. So that is a process, and that
is a process for me. That's to come to terms
with things that I have experienced and things that I
have gone through, and it is a healing and a
grieving process. I believe not only is the end of
a relationship, but the end of a marriage divorce is
(10:15):
very much like a death. There is a process. It
is grief. It is grief to its finest, and I
am an advocate for mental health and God, I love
therapy and I have walked and rode every wave of
grief and sometimes I still am I currently still am,
(10:36):
you know, but that's important for me for my healing process.
And I'm also the type of person when I am
done with something with someone with a relationship, I'm done.
There's no going back for me. I don't backpedal. I
believe that things close for a reason for new ones
to open. And even still, I'm not that same person
(10:59):
who who was married to my ex husband. Anyway, I'm different,
and I'm different because of grief, and I'm different because
of the ending of that relationship. And I'm different because
I had to learn and I had to grow and
I had to process and I am freaking resilient and
I'm really proud of that.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You mentioned the grief part here, and I think it's
interesting because it sounds like to me, and you tell
me if I'm wrong, that you're still in this season
of grieving moments or having grieving moments. For anybody listening
who has gone through divorce, or for anybody who is
going through a breakup, that just feels like the end
(11:49):
of the world and everything inside of them is being
ripped out, and they're lonely and they're nervous and they're
trying to process it all. You do you mind sharing
a little bit more about what this grief feels like
and what this grief is doing to you personally and
how it's changing you.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, my grief that I'm walking through right now is
very different than the grief that I experienced three years
ago when our relationship ended. So although we waited a
really long time to tell anyone that we were separating,
and divorce takes a long time, it's not something that
happens overnight. We truly haven't been together in at least
three years or something like that. So I grieved my relationship.
(12:31):
Then the new grief that I'm experiencing is an outcome
of the headlines and the tabloids that everyone is reading,
and the fact that really difficult things that have taken
place in my life have to play out for everyone
to read through clicking a link, you know what I mean.
(12:54):
So that's my grief. I'm no longer grieving the relationship.
I'm grieving what I thought could be really good co
parenting space for my children. I'm grieving the idea that
I could have a really wonderful relationship with my children's father.
But I am no longer grieving that relationship or that marriage.
(13:15):
I'm no longer grieving that I have come worlds past that,
But I think it would be doing a disservice to
deny that the things that have taken place recently have
not been incredibly hard for me and really really hard
for my children. So that's kind of it's kind of
all I'm willing to share on that because again, I
work really hard to protect my children and the things
(13:39):
that have taken place are just so unfortunate. They're just
they're so unfortunate.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So yeah, that's fair. Yeah, you share as much as
you feel like is appropriate, and again I completely appreciate
and respect the protection that you're surrounding your family with.
Let's transition then into kind of this next season. When
did you realize or when did you start to feel
(14:08):
or when did you come to terms with however you
want to describe it, because I'm intrigued with the language
that you use around it that you are single and available.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Again, I probably was not really interested in any kind
of relationship, let alone dating until maybe within the last year.
I just wasn't there yet. I wasn't emotionally available, I
wasn't emotionally ready, and honest to God, I just kind
of really loved my life. I love where I live,
(14:39):
I love my time with the kids, I have an
amazing job, I travel the world, and I felt really
really great about that. I didn't have a lot of
space or any kind of capacity to take on another
human being for the first time in my life outside
of my children. That was probably the most selfish that
I've ever been. And I am the least selfish human
(15:00):
being that I hope any of my people know, because
I'm a giver and I love to be surrounded and
I love to feed people, and I love to have community,
and I love those things. And this was the first
time in my life where I was actually selfish. I
did what I wanted. I bought what barstools I wanted,
I got what comforter I wanted, I took my children
and wherever I wanted. It probably wasn't until maybe about
(15:25):
a year ago that I finally got to a space
where I was like, oh, okay, like I could, I
could desire someone's companionship, but there's a fine line here, Ben,
Like the longer I go, I'm kind of like, yeah, no,
Like I'm never living with another person. If I want
to let the dishes sit in the sink. They're my dishes.
I know I did them. So it's a very fine
line of being ready to find someone and also being
(15:51):
really comfortable in my space. I'm in a very different
place in my life where when I was in my
early twenties, when I went on the bachelorette before I
met Stephen, I wanted to marry someone. I wanted to
combine our lives. I wanted to stay home with our children.
I wanted that very traditional relationship where my husband worked
and I raise the kids and we shared whatever. I'm
(16:13):
not there anymore. I have a career that I really like.
I don't need another man's money. I pay my own bills,
I put a roof over our heads, I have a
great job that I love.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It would just be that.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Component of having companionship. And I have said it a
thousand times over. I don't desire marriage anymore. I did
that and that was a lot of fun. But I'll
tell you what's really traumatic is divorce. So I don't
necessarily need that piece of paper anymore. I've done it.
I gave it a good shot. But I believe in
(16:46):
partnership and companionship. I believe in relationships. I believe in
being loyal to one person and finding someone that compliments
me and vice versa. But I would say the traditional
aspect of it looks different from me now. I'm almost
forty four years old and I don't need to be
taken care of. It'd be kind of nice if someone
wanted to take me out to dinner, but I don't
rely on another man for those things any longer. And
(17:08):
I believe that just comes with age and growth and security,
financial security, and just I'm in a different place in
my life than probably where I was when I was
twenty six and that sweet little girl walking out to
a freshly washed pavement waiting for the limos to pull up,
of all these guys, and that feels really good because
I'm not I'm not desperate. I will be picky, I'll
(17:33):
be choosy, the go to the gotta kind of bring
it because I'm not willing to settle. I wasn't then,
and I'm for sure a shit I'm not now.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I mean, and that's wonderful, But is it negotiable? Like
are you crossing off marriage like you have no interest
in getting married again? Or say the perfect and we're
going to talk about what that perfect companion looks like
to you in your mind right now. I have some
thoughts and feelings from my own experience, but I'll get
(18:03):
to that in a second. But if you find that
perfect companion for what you're thinking it looks like right now,
is getting married again off the table or is it
still an option available?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
If we're looking at the table, ben it's at the
very corner and it's almost hanging off the edge where
it's like rocking back and forth. If someone doesn't push
it back on the table, it's going to be really hard.
It's just not something that is important to me. If
I meet someone and it's really important to them, I
am always open to understanding and hearing how someone feels
(18:36):
and making compromises. But I would say it is not
important to me. But if I meet someone and I
believe it's the love of my life and it's important
to them, I would be open to the conversation.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Okay, So it's just into the perfect companion. One of
the things I've always talked about publicly, and I have
a lot of respect for my past relationships in my life.
(19:08):
Some of them are close friends and some aren't so close.
To me, and I really have no desire to ever
see them again. But the thing that I appreciate is
you learn from serious relationships. I think more a few
years removed than you can ever understand. So I walked
(19:32):
out of a lot of these serious relationships going Okay,
this is actually what I'm looking for now I'm with you.
When I was a bachelor, I had this list of
ideals and none of those were the same ideals I
looked for in my future spouse, which is Jessica. They
changed kind of based on my experience. So now, because
(19:53):
you have years of marriage under your belt, and because
you've now gone through a divorce, what does a perfect
companion look like to you? In the seat you're sitting in?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Well, I think if I knew that, I wouldn't be
sitting in the seat, don't you think, ben.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
No, I think you one hundred percent will, because you'd
be going this guy I haven't met him yet, but
he's out there somewhere because he's X y Z. But
I haven't met this guy. So yes, I think you'd
be sitting in the seat because you haven't met him,
and we're going to help you meet him.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I think it's worth noting that I agree with you.
What I look for now is going to be very
different than probably what I looked for at twenty six
or thirty, you know, or even in my marriage. I
absolutely have got to be with someone who is emotionally
sound and emotionally mature, someone that can can function in
(20:51):
conversation on the most basic level. Reciprocity is so incredibly
important to me, and I would like to think that
chivalry is not dead.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I'm listened.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I'm a pretty independent woman, but look, I find it
flattering if a guy wants to open up my car
door or take me out to dinner and actually pay
for it. Like I would appreciate that. Those I would
say are like my top three things, Like I need
someone who is emotionally well. I need that emotional maturity,
(21:23):
someone that can communicate, someone that can express themselves and
have a conversation as an adult and be very in
tune with who they are and understand their mental health
their capacity to do so. I believe that that is
really important in a healthy relationship, and I really want
that in a partner, in a companion and a spouse.
(21:46):
That's something that is now really really important to me.
I need that I need someone who can communicate, someone
who can say how they feel, and someone who can
also be supportive at the same time. I don't think
that we all know how to do that. I don't
believe everyone knows how to communicate in a situation or
an argument. And again, I'm a very strong personality. I
(22:10):
have pretty big opinions, and I need someone who is
willing to stay in that and be able to handle
me and have a conversation and not let me run.
I also really want to feel safe in a relationship.
(22:33):
That's something that I realized through therapy after divorce. Something
that I really crave, and I've likely craved it from
a young age, is that I want to feel safe
in a relationship. And I don't know that I have
ever had a really healthy relationship where I have felt
safe as a woman with a partner. I don't know
that I've ever felt really safe, and I really want that.
I want someone who is going to look at me
(22:55):
on my bad days and say, you know what I'm
really I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. You can have
a crap day or you can get upset, but I'm
not going anywhere. I'm here, You're safe. You may be
yourself with me, you may be vulnerable, and I will
never use it against you. I think that's really important.
And then yeah, like I something about living in LA,
Like like I've been on a date and a guy said,
(23:18):
do you want to split dinner? And I was like,
I'm out.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I'm out.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
There's no going back, there's no coming back from that.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, LA is gonna be tough. It's going to be See,
it's a whole new new hurdle that we have here
to find somebody within that area. But in closing, uh,
I'm getting this sense that you have a whole new level.
And again, please disagree with me and question me and
(23:46):
tell me I'm wrong. I would love but I get
this since you have this whole new confidence in this
season of life, like you're you're not even need It
doesn't feel like you're needing or wanting as much as
maybe it's just like a wishful desire, which is an
interesting place in my opinion to enter into dating. Not
(24:08):
this like longing for oh my gosh, I need to
find a partner. Yes, you're right.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I think it's a very different, a different position to
be in life because I believe we are taught from
an early age that you go to high school, then
you go to college, then you get married, then you
have babies, and there's all of these monumental marks in
your lifespan that you're supposed to do. And I've done
all of those things, So you're right, Ben that, like
(24:35):
I feel, I'm in a place in my life that
I don't have to check those things off. And again,
I'm very grateful that I have a really wonderful job,
so I have financial security, I have my children. I
don't want any more kids, so I'm not in this
place of like every time you go on a date,
you're like, oh my god, am I going to marry
this person?
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Is this the one?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Is this the one? I believe that you can have
many great loves in your life, and they can be
at different times and in the places where you are
in your life. And I had the high school sweetheart,
you know, then I had the marriage. I had that
person that I thought I would love, and I would
say that now I am ready for that like great love,
(25:17):
That great love, the one that I hate to say,
the word that defines us, but it's the one that
makes us. It's the one that when I'm sixty five.
That's the one that I'm like, Oh, yeah, that was it,
that was the one. And you're also right, I'm in
no rush. I am willing to be patient.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I don't want to backtrack and be where I was,
which is which is probably also why I say I
don't ever want to get married again, because for me,
that breakup and divorce was very traumatic. I don't want
to experience that again. I don't want to make that
mistake again. So the red flags that I missed, you know,
going into that relationship. I pay attention to a lot
of those things now. And that goes back to what
(26:00):
you said in the beginning, is that you learn a
lot of lessons from relationships. My ex husband was not
my first relationship I've been in. I've been in several relationships,
and I've loved and lost before him. But I would
say that at this age that was a great loss
to me. That was a great loss to me. And again,
I've come a long way and I have grieved that
(26:21):
one and I've set it aside and I'm never gone back.
I don't ever want to go back, I promise you that.
But you learn things, and there are certain things now
that I know that I'm not willing to put up
with if I cook, you clean, like, just do the dishes?
Is that too much to ask? Like, just do the dishes.
But all joking aside, there are things that at my
(26:42):
age I'm going to be forty four this year, I
just have certain things that I'm willing to tolerate anymore
because I don't have to. And I'm in a rush.
It's not like I'm rushing to get married. I'm not
in a rush to get into a relationship. But if
someone really great comes along, I know that I'm not
willing to let that go.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Final question for you as we close up this, I'm
excited to be a part of this either very impactful
season for you or just a nice blimp on a
radar for you as you enter back into the dating world.
But dating to me now, as I think about it,
(27:21):
or as I talk to people who are within this world,
it feels still to this day, and I thought it
would feel different after years of marriage. It feels scary,
and it feels intimidating, and it also it sometimes feels exciting.
There's an excitement to it, and anticipation maybe is the
better way to say it, but do you have any
fears about entering into the dating world again and actively dating?
(27:48):
Is there anything that concerns you about this next chapter?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Just narcissists, just straight narcissists. They scare me across the board.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
You live in La Goodness, gracious, you're screwed.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
They're gonna have to move back to the East Coast.
I think, No, I don't have a lot of fears.
Bad breath really scares me. Someone who might try to
kiss me on a first date really scares me. No,
I don't anythink. That's the really nice thing about coming
so far and having been through so much is that
(28:23):
I feel really at peace with myself, ben like, I
kind of really like me, and I'm not willing to
negotiate that or change that for anyone. I feel very
secure in who I am. I like genuinely like myself,
and I don't mind spending time alone. So something that
I'm not willing to do is to bend that for
any other person. That's not important for me, and I
(28:48):
have faith that if anybody wants to do that to you,
to change who you are, to change who you are
at your core, they're not the right person for you.
So fears. I don't have a lot of them yet.
But again, I've barely tipped my into the dating pond,
like I'm barely there, and people keep saying there's fish,
but I just don't. I don't think there are a
lot of them. But no, I am really grateful to
(29:10):
be very secure in who I am and me as
a person. And I think you'll like it or you
leave it. You either want to be with me or
you don't. There's no more begging. And I have learned
that I will never ever in my life again beg
a man to choose me. I never will. I did
(29:33):
that and I've put that to bed, and I'll never
do it again.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
This is beautiful. I'm so excited. Thank you too for
jumping in here tonight, and thank you for sharing with us.
Here's what I'm seeing is we have a confident we
have a strong we have a newly inspired human on
our hands who is so fresh. Forty four. It's exciting.
(30:01):
You're not forty four. You got to stop saying that
you're forty three about to turn forty four. You're still
forty three. Let's enjoy the last few months of the
forty three we have okay, all right. A deal
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